#Insert your controversial opinion here

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

muted quarry
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wether it be housing, money, stocks or other assets

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this has a Value

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this value can be sold for more capital

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you can also work for capital

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giving your labour

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in a capitalist society

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everyone's purpose is to generate as much capital as possible before they die

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for someone to gain capital means someone else has to lose capital as well

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to compensate, services and goods are to compensate for this loss of capital

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if i lose 1000$ since i gave it to you, you must then renovate my kitchen

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thus, the recipient has generated capital

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now

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imagine you are a big business

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the principal is the same

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MAKE THAT CAPITAL

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!!

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and

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you have expanded within your borders

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so you want to make capital across other countries to take their wealth as well

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for yourself

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so you, the business, can get the most capital

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at the cost of your services or product

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now

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you have taken

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the USA

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and western europe

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under your belt of capital

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you now have all these countries

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you sell your

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products to

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and they give you

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sweet sweet cash

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but

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you have reached a road block

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COMMUNISM

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AHHHH

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where capital does not exist

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where there is no private property

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the money is the state

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stocks are non existent

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as companies are the state

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and you cannot invest in the state

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for its money derives from it

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therefore, a place where CAPITLA DOES NOT EXIST

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capital*

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so

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you, the big business

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can not expand there

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maybe

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you give them a product, they give you a product in return to which you can sell your new product for capital as well

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but then, why not sell your initial product?

jade skiff
muted quarry
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well then, their product might be better, but to cross a militarised state border with goods to exhange for their goods to tehn sell their goods on high tariffs is much more difficult than locally making your product and locally selling your product

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but what if you were able to COLLAPSE THE COMMUNISTS

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so that the people, or consumers, can stay

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and the regime leaves

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so these free people can earn your CAPITAL

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or gain your products*

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in exchange for THEIR CAPITAL

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so boom

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collapse the communists

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install capitalsm

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and make money off of them

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and boom bang you are now FILTHY RICH

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WOOHOO

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COEMS 🤑

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communsit country dont like that

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so they fight back to keep their system of lack of capital

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so you start a cold war to starve them out while they try to resist

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and both of you try to expand into other countries

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proxy war

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and allat

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to get more ressources

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wether to give the resources to the state or turn the ressources into MORE CAPITAL

muted quarry
jade skiff
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You explained vague economic/ideological reasons why the West mightve wanted this, but not how, which was the question i asked

muted quarry
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although raw ressource or labour for free (it goes back into the state) does not create or lose anything, other than your labour, therefore it doesnt create or destroy the currency of the state, nor make/lose capital

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its not an investment if you work for them for free

muted quarry
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the fear?

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imagine you had big capital and start losing capital because communism is expanding

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you dont want to lsoe capital, do you?

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ofc not

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so you stop them from expanding

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thats scary

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the thought of losing capital

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so they wanted to keep them in their place

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how the west did it?

jade skiff
muted quarry
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expansion and proxy war to limit spread of communism

muted quarry
jade skiff
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Ah, so Communists getting into power in Soviet-controlled Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland through voting fraud in some cases and in other coups by local Communist parties with them soon banning any opposition, Soviets installing a loyal puppet in North Korea and soon helping him wage war against the regime in the South, refusing to withdraw from Iran and blocading West Berlin are all irrelevant factors that indicate no fault of the USSR?

viral oasis
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Well, to be fair the US did similar things.

jade skiff
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They did, but you can't blame it squarely on the US

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I know you didn't, but that's what the discussion is about

junior echo
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Kinda, England entered a war that was way beyond its "casus belli" and dragged their empire around the world into it. Hard to believe it was just to defend a small nation that stood no chance against the Germans.

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I hope I didn't interrupt the cold war debate.

viral oasis
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They were honouring their gaurantee of Belgium

junior echo
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Well, more native born Englishmen died in the war than the colonies, but I believe that can be attributed to military incompetence.

lavish field
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England kind of had to enter the war to protect its European allies (France and Russia), as otherwise it would have no allies in a Europe mostly dominated by Germany, which wasn’t exactly friendly with Britain

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Along side this, Germany showed itself to be a very capable nation at waging war on multiple fronts during the First World War. I doubt it would be a mere inconvenience to the empire, especially considering how much it would’ve grown if it had won the war

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The English mainland being removed from the fighting is just a side effect of being an island nation. They still gave blood and sweat in an attempt to aid their allies in order to keep the balance of power in Europe from threatening their empire.

Sure, cutting off the head of the ever-growing German empire was a goal, but it isn’t the main reason they entered the war

fair hearth
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Jusy because wealth is desirable does not mean it's man's purpose

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That's up for the person to choose

fair hearth
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Or how poverty has significantly declinined over the years?

remote hazel
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Capitalism makes the $$$ fam

fair hearth
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It is time

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To summon wumbologist

remote hazel
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plus the Cold War question is ez to answer

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Humans started it

fair hearth
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See here's the breaker pal

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Capitalism doesn't exist

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The free market is not so free at all

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Plus the Soviets used money as well

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It's pretty dumb when people get mad over a piece of paper and proclaim it as man's greatest evil

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Money cannot even think on its own

remote hazel
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better than the alternative

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Crypto

fair hearth
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I mean well kinda

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The thing with fiat money is its value is state backed

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So their's more trust into it

remote hazel
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Trust in Fiat Money?

fair hearth
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Yeah

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Money only works because people have trust in it

remote hazel
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Fiat

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the car brand

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Fiat

fair hearth
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If nobody believed in crypto it wouldn't be used as a currency for transaction

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But ofc crypto is marketed as the future, untrackable, and cannot be intervened by governments which makes it more resistant to inflation

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Or how you basically could just farm it from your pc

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All those things eventually lead up to people trusting in the currency

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Like remember how Musk was hyping up doge coin and how thay directly influenced its value

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Besides, the problems that exist in modern day societies is not always a direct result of capitalism

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Truth is, people just don't care about poor people

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Well most of the time

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Say how we don't always give out money to every beggar on the street or not spare a dollar everytime we saw a charity box

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Charity in our world is a plus

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Not an obligation

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Plus if so called communists are always worried about the wealth inequality

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Why are they blaming big corporations and not the Government?

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Afterall the Government is actually that one nationwide institution with large resources and oh yeah

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They can just you know, print money

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Labor theory of value is wack

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Good luck explaining how a banana taped to a wall sold for millions

stable sand
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The USSR was socialist, not communist, real communism has never been achieved (and probably can't)

fair hearth
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I mean

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It's called USSR ya know

viral oasis
stable sand
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Which I don't think is possible but technically, it has never been achieved

viral oasis
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Bartering would be a bit more difficult than just using money and I prefer having some kind of Government than none, as then anybody can pillage and murder willy-nilly.

crisp lantern
sacred tundra
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Taiwan is a sovereign country and the PRC is an extremist terrorist force who violently took over the Chinese mainland

fair hearth
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How did the PRC become a terror org

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Aren't terror orgs supposed to target civilians to further their cause

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I don't remember the PRC publicly admitting/demonstrating their crimes

sacred tundra
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They are actively exterminating Uyghur people in the Xinjiang region (it used to be East Turkestan)

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CCP appends its vicious claims to several territories

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All the water basin of South China Sea

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They seek control

fair hearth
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Even though my country is involved

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I don't see how that is terrorism

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That's just exercising sea power

fair hearth
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That's more like cultural genocide

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Well genocide even to some extent depending on what figures you believe in

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But ofc

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Rule 3

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But still

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It's stupid to call the PRC a terror org

sacred tundra
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They’ve been harvesting people’s organs

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They’ve got over 900 transplantation facilities

stable sand
inner mortar
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terror tyrant lasergriffin

stable sand
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!1984

dusty idolBOT
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Literally 1984...

fair yoke
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its true though

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literally just make D-Day fail, and they win

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we just have to figureout how to make D-day not fail

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kill Garbo

fair hearth
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By that point Germany already lost

fair yoke
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Yes, but they could lose less hard

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Lose less hard = win for 1944 Germany

remote hazel
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nah it's still an L

fair yoke
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Ok, yes, it's a loss, but who WOULDN'T want to get an actually favorable deal from the soviets?

remote hazel
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The Soviets would be worse

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they're Bagrationing and rekking the Germans

fair yoke
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Ok, but they wouldn't be doing that if D-Day failed

remote hazel
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They would since they accepted the timeline of Operations in April

fair hearth
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There's no way d day would fail

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There's nothing that can harass the allied invasion by that point

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Every tank, train, truck sent to France is constantly harassed by fighter and bomber runs

fair yoke
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Ok, but still, if D-Day fails, say the Germans caught wind of it happening at Normandy and actually believed it, it would mean there's still reinforcements for the eastern front

remote hazel
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they caught wind of Balloon tanks

fair hearth
fair yoke
fair hearth
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Any reinforcement sent to the beaches would just got demolished

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No

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In fact it'd be worse

remote hazel
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even if they push out one of the beach heads(hard af) they still have others

fair hearth
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It's why High command kept rejecting Rommel's proposal to send in his tanks immediately

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Germany doesn't have plenty of tanks to spare just to have them demolished by naval gunfire and cas

fair yoke
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Why not just do what the Japanese did at Saipan, Okinawa, and Iwo Jima? Lure them in, swoop down in droves

remote hazel
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cus it's the Germans

fair yoke
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Lol

fair hearth
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It will always succeed

fair yoke
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Ecir, please, hush

remote hazel
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he's in a corner

fair hearth
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Plus there's a difference with the island hopping campaigns compared to the atlantik wall

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Japan just had to defend a single island

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Germany had to disperse and anticipate landings

fair yoke
fair hearth
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Much of which is located in Calais

remote hazel
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cus of Balloon tanks

fair yoke
fair hearth
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An allied landing in Normandy worked not just because

fair hearth
remote hazel
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plus the Allies still had their trap card to play

fair yoke
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What trap card?

remote hazel
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Operation Dragoon

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lol

fair hearth
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Calais was the closest point

fair yoke
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Why not pull out the rules card and tell them that nukes aren't allowed until August 1945

remote hazel
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nah

fair hearth
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There was a ton of signs that the allies were going to land in Normandy

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But ofc the Germans have to reject it because war is always full of tricks and deception

remote hazel
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Like Mincemeat?

fair hearth
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They'll only send in the reinforcements once the damage has been too late

fair hearth
remote hazel
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and Fortitude cus Balloon Tanks

fair hearth
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Obviously intelligence plays a lot of role in military operations

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But the thing with intel is the value it gives comes only from the decisions made to respond to it

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In this case with D Day

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There's no way the Germans could properly respond to such an overwhelming force

stable sand
# fair hearth There's no way d day would fail

There were lots of ways D-day could have failed, the Germans were just too disorganized and too spread out to properly take advantage that the defenders have. Omaha was a good example of when the Germans were able to take advantage of their position as the defenders. I recommend watching D-day 24hrs by WW2 week by week, they talk about different ways D-day could have failed

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It gave me a new appreciation on how large D-day truly was and the odds of success

fair hearth
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Give me a quick rundown

fair hearth
stable sand
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The German response was extremely disorganized and German command was falling apart, multiple high ranking German commanders just happened to come across allied paratroopers and were killed. If the Germans had been able to fix their command issues they might have been able to organize an effective response. Also Rommel just happened to be away during the invasion.

They also mentioned how an early counter attack by German Panzers could have also turned the tide

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I don't remember them in exact detail, each episode is an hour long and there's 24 episodes

fair hearth
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But the allies still had an overwhelming air superiority

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Realistically only entrenched infantry can hold them down

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But then just as you have mentioned

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They are way too dispersed

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Plus the german disorganization can be attributed to the relentless aerial harassment on the roads and railway lines

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German High command is also unsure when to give out a response unless they've confirmed the invasion was 100% happening

stable sand
fair hearth
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The casualties may be higher

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But the atlantikwall will always break

fair yoke
fair hearth
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It will always break

fair hearth
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It will always break

crisp lantern
steep pine
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I dont agree cus im controversial

stable sand
crisp lantern
stable sand
stable moon
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controversial

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the m10 gmc sucks as hell

light moat
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Italy actually had descent tanks ant the later years of ww2

solid portal
# stable moon the m10 gmc sucks as hell

It was a cheap practical solution to a gap in the US's anti Tank capability at the time. Early in its use it was great, and it was replaced by the Sherman 76' that pretty much did its job better in every way.

But otherwise the M10 was solid for its mission set which was a Tank Destroyer with its 76mm gun that could penetrate even tge heaviest of german Armour.

jade skiff
stable moon
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my source is that i made it the fuck up (i just hate it because the turret traverse is crap)

runic willow
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Armenian genocide

quick surge
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Controversial opinion:
Britain has more debt than the USA, that too owed to a single country.
£45 Trillion present day money

limpid folio
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Do you mean historically or as of present?

plucky root
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I have an opinion on CIA but I'd rather not

inner mortar
junior echo
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If you die, then you're right.

dull gazelle
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Oversimplified > armchair historian

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Controversial level 10000000

light moat
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Oversimplified = Armchair Historian = Simple History

quick surge
limpid folio
# quick surge Both

Presently yes. Covid and other gov support schemes have put us in a load of debt whilst all our public services/sectors are crying out for money, and with all the strikes over pay (for example the Jr.Doctors want a 35% pay rise) I cant see that problem going away for a long time.
In the past we still had that issue, but a lot of our debt in the 20th Centaury is related to the wars. Post WW2 our finances were ruined and with the founding of the NHS in 1948, spare change was hard to come by. That's one of the reasons that the empire slowly disintergrated, because we couldnt afford the upkeep do to the strain it put on our finances

quick surge
limpid folio
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kinda thing

quick surge
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No

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Britain owes 45 Trillion pounds to India

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and more to Kenya

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the Carribean

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Bangladesh

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Pakistan

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and her former colonies

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That way

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For the theft and looting of the lands

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they colonised

limpid folio
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For like the stuff in the British Muesum?

jade skiff
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You realise that opens up a rabbit hole under which almost every country on earth has to pay someone money that they cannot really spare?

quick surge
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But it owes

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Repaying it is another thing

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But there is a debt above their head for that

quick surge
jade skiff
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There's no such thing as atonement in geopolitics

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Besides, how is it not about repaying if a sum is demanded?

quick surge
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Its the new world of Geopolitics

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what we care more about is to atone the sins of slavery imposed on us

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And this is my way of seeing it but in regards to Britain, it's a bit rich, to oppress, enslave, kill, torture, Maime people for 200 years and then celebrate the fact that they’re democratic at the end of it.

quick surge
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Its been done beforew

jade skiff
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Describe examples

quick surge
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Germany gave reparations to Poland and Israel, as has been portrayed in the dramatic picture of Chancellor Willy Brandt on his knees in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1970. Some other examples include Italy’s reparations to Libya. There is Japan’s to Korea. Even Britain has Paid reparations to the New Zealand Maori’s after their crimes over there. Kenya has also recieved reparations for the Mao Mao massacre as well. So it is not as if this is something unprecedented or unheard of that’s going to somehow open some sort of Nasty Pandora’s Box.

limpid folio
# jade skiff Describe examples

yk the Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe thing? That was all over a debt that Britian owed to Iran. She was freed after it was paid

jade skiff
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Okay, apologies, i thought you meant reparations purely in material/monetary form

quick surge
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Oh and of course, the famous example of the Treaty of Versailles. Germany was forced to pay a huge reparations sum for the sins and massacres and looting that took place in the first world war. Although it was an unrealistically large amount and after new geopolitics came, Germany paid the entire thing until the last increment in 2008

limpid folio
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idk if thats the kinda thing he was referencing but i think it fits what hes tryning to day

quick surge
jade skiff
quick surge
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Benin bronzes returned from Britain

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even India got a lot of stolen artifacts back from the British, French, Americans

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So again its not that this is not been done before

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Its just that the Monetary value in this case that has been placed is extremely huge due to the amount of sins committed under colonialism

limpid folio
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If that were the way, half of EU woudl be broke AF

jade skiff
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Not even close to half, dont be ridiculous

limpid folio
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France, Spain, Italy, UK, Germany, Russia, large parts of the Balkans ect

limpid folio
jade skiff
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Russia and UK aren't part of the EU

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Oh you meant Europe in larger sense

limpid folio
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Geographic EU

jade skiff
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That's not "Geopolitic EU"

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How can a country that opposes the institution be assigned to it

limpid folio
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Oh I use EU as an abreviation of Europe

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my bad

jade skiff
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Ok

quick surge
quick surge
jade skiff
limpid folio
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Everyone knew that the Repairations on Versailles was too harsh

quick surge
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Take india for example

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When the Brtish landed on Indian shores the share of India on the world Economy was 23%, and after they left it was to below 4%

quick surge
jade skiff
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Not nearly in full extent

quick surge
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Rather than the actual money

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This is what we are exactly asking

limpid folio
limpid folio
jade skiff
quick surge
quick surge
quick surge
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Ill give you an example

jade skiff
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Share in the world economy isnt the same as industrialization

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Maybe we are using different terms

quick surge
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the Handloom Weavers which were famed across the world whose products were exported around the world, making fine muslin which were as light as woven air as said. And Britain came right in and smashed their thumbs, broke their looms and imposed tariffs and duties on their cloth and products and started of course, taking the raw materials from India and shipping back manufactured cloth and flooding the world’s markets with what became the products of the Satanic mills of Victorian England. This meant that the weavers in India became beggars and India went from being a world famous exporter of finished cloth into an importer, went from having 27% of world trade to below 4%.

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This was in Bengal btw

quick surge
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Às per your terms

jade skiff
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It is probably incorrect, now that i think about it

quick surge
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But you know what is more sickening?

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Stealing our culture

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our artifacts

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and then Selling it back to us

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Which is exactly what britain did

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the British Museum actually SOLD some of the Benin Bronzes back to Nigeria in the 50’s and 70’s. This is like a situation where the burglar destroyed your Household and told you that in order to get your owned Items back you have to buy it off him.

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This is why nowdays the British Museum is nowadays referred to as the "Chor Bazar" in Hindi which is the "Thieves' Market" in english

light moat
remote hazel
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and Railroads

stable sand
quick surge
# remote hazel and Railroads

The railways were a scam.
let me tell you first of all, railways and roads were built to really serve the interests of the British and not those of the local population, but I might add that many countries have built railways and roads without having to have been colonised in order to do so.

Indian railways were designed to carry raw materials from the Interland and into the ports to be shipped to Britain. And the fact is that Indian or Jamaican or other colonial public needs were merely incidental. In terms of public Transportation there was no attempt made to match supply to demand for mass transport, None Whatsoever.

Instead in fact the Indian Railways were built with massive incentives offered by Britain to British Investors guaranteed out of Indian taxes paid by Indians. The result was that you had 1 Mile of Indian Railway costing Twice of what it would cost to build the same Mile in Canada or Australia because there was so much money being paid in extravagant returns. Britain made all the Profits, control the supply of technology, supplied all the equipment and all these benefits came in the form of British private enterprise at Indian Public Risk.

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And even when the Railways did start to become widespread, the Discriminatory hiring practices by the British meant that key industrial skills were not effectively transferred to Indian personnel, which might have proved to be a benefit. The prevailing view was that the Indian railways would have to be staffed almost exclusively by Europeans , as British historian Durant quotes, “to protect investments”

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And even if as you do claim gave India “Industrialisation”, it was really just industries made so that it would be easier to loot India and serve British economic interests

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For example, the railway workshops in Jamalpur in Bengal and Ajmer in Rajputana were established in 1862 to maintain the trains, but their Indian mechanics became so adept that in 1878 they started designing and building their own locomotives that were just as good as British made ones and way more cheaper. But just like how British wanted everything for themselves including every last cent of railway profit, in 1912 they passed an act of Parliament explicitly making it impossible for Indian workshops to design and Manufacture locomotives, and only allowed them to import locomotives from Britain.

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“British industrialised India ” my fucking ass.

quick surge
plucky root
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same thing

stable sand
light moat
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U Indian?

quick surge
light moat
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nice me 2 only that i was only born there

crisp lantern
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Devastator was the best Japanese torpedo bomber

crisp lantern
quasi fog
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The US and USSR were responsible for the instability in Afghanistan in the 20th century

eager lodge
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How is that controversial?

quasi fog
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At least you acknowledge

wintry bluff
grand wren
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Germans did nothing wrong during ww2

light moat
grand wren
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No thats not what i meant

light moat
grand wren
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Yes

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Its a joke

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Dont take it sereusly

light moat
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well

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ngl

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its a terrible joke

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no offense

broken lagoon
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Full offence

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Do better

stable sand
stable sand
plucky root
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(serious

stable moon
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wehrmacht lost the war because of lag

lavish field
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True

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Bad Wi-Fi

quick surge
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KGB was better than the CIA

limpid folio
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The NVKD was the best in the world in its time but by the time thst the ussr collapsed the KGB was a shell of its former self.

For example in ww2 the NVKD was fighting 2 battles- against Germany and its allies in the west. One great example of this is the exploits of Kim Philby and the Cambridge spy ring, who all held important positions in MI5/MI6, the Home Office ans the foreign office of the British government. Philby was the most prominent spy, rising to head the task force that oversaw the destabilisation of new soviet satellite states with predictable consequences. He had friends in every important department of the British intelligence service and was able to tell the soviets whatever they wanted to know. The subsequent years after he was discovered, in the 1950s-60s (but never charged due to the inability to definitively prove his guilt) caused rifts between the 2 branches of British intelligence. However by the end of the USSR, the KGB was a stagnant organisation that gave extremely smart people a respectable job for life. For example Oleg Gordievsky, a KGB general who spied for the British and nearly became head of the KGB in London (in affect) described most of his superiors as incompetent, lazy and corrupt.

I’d recommend reading ‘A spy among friends’ and ‘a spy and a traitor’ (both by Ben Macintrye) to find out more and Philby and Oleg Gordievsky.

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I’d post links to both books but idk if savage tree giff would allow it

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Also

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The late stages of the KGB was riddled with internal politics/competition which made everything less effective ect(which allowed for the great escape of Oleg Gordievsky as he was not properly put under surveillance as his department didn’t want the extent of his activities circulating around the organisation)

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On the CIA perspective
In WWII, the OSS wasn’t even in its infancy. The Americans didn’t have any CIA style organisations until 1942 when the OSS was founded, and that was basically an American MI6. The Americans had to play catch up in the intelligence community for the early years of the Cold War whilst rooting out the deeply embedded soviet spies (like those in the manhattan project). The Philby affair in MI6 had major repercussions on the cia and its predecessors, as the head of its counter intelligence division was convinced that there was an American version of Philby (which there was but not until the 1980s with Aldrich Ames). I got the impression that the late Cold War CIA was very good but I lack examples to give

quick surge
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Okay thank you on that but that’s not why I like them more

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Two word:
Active measures

quick surge
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here

quick surge
steep pine
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Communism is bad ):

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I sure hope that I don’t get attacked.

quick surge
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In terms of the theory Karl Marx put in the Manifesto? No
Honestly it does seem like a really good idea

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Thing is its impossible to fully implement the full marxist version of Communism

steep pine
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Communism sounds good on paper, but in reality it doesn’t work.

light moat
quick surge
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Apart from Stalinism which was a part success

steep pine
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Yes

jade skiff
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How was Stalinism successful in any way?

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The only thing it achieved is rapid industrialisation, in massive expense of agriculture and rural population

stable moon
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großer chungus

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remote hazel
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looking back on the past isn't going to get anything done

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remote hazel
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well yeah

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So no, looking at the past won't get much done on its own. But the people that learn from it can keeps up moving forward and to stop us from moving back.

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# quick surge Apart from Stalinism which was a part success

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930–1933#:~:text=The Encyclopædia Britannica estimates that,to 5 million were Ukrainians.

Soviet famine of 1930–1933

The Soviet famine of 1930–1933 was a famine in the major grain-producing areas of the Soviet Union, including Ukraine and different parts of Russia, including Northern Caucasus, Kuban Region, Volga Region, Kazakhstan, the South Urals, and West Siberia. Estimates conclude that 5.7 to 8.7 million people died of famine across the Soviet Union. Majo...

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He said the thing guys!

remote hazel
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Doesn’t help that Stalins death count is more than Hitlers

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ONE FAMINE UNDER STALIN

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Communism doesn't work, none of its forms where "partly susccesful" it is a failed ideology that we should probably stop trying to repeat. Even "communist" China is slowly Turing more capitalist because communism didn't work that well for them either

remote hazel
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Big Man Deng

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If the german people could pay for food, Hitler would not have rose to power in my opinion

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But that is the thing with such hard debt imposed on a country, it forces their hand

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It forces them to go to the last resort to pay it off

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Leaving the people in the dust

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# solid portal So no, looking at the past won't get much done on its own. But the people that l...

True, but you know what, the opposite happened in Britain. 2014 YouGov poll revealed that 59 per cent of respondents thought the British empire was ‘something to be proud of’, and only 19 per cent were ‘ashamed’ of its misdeeds; almost half the respondents also felt that the countries ‘were better off’ for having been colonized. An astonishing 34 per cent opined that ‘they would like it if Britain still had an empire’. IN FACT, I saw a few videos of the lots and lots of respondants and people tried to justify the horrible crimes such as Jallianwalla Bagh Massacre and the Mao Mao Massacre. The people included in this poll are several prominent names such as British MPs, Historians such as Niall Ferguson amongst others.

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The colonial mindset of the British, has never left and would never leave simply because the British are STILL unaplogetic of their corimes and sins and yet try to justify them while condemning the same crimes elsewhere as if they are some "Peacemakers"

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I'll be back in like 20 minutes. Gtg. Interesting discussion though

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# solid portal I am not ignoring that this happened, but there are better solutions than repara...

There were alternatives, yet Chancellor Willy Brandt went on his knees in the anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto in 1970. There were alternatives, yet Italy decided to pay reparations to Libya as well.
There were alternatives, yet BRITAIN decided to pay reparations to the New Zealand Maori.
Because it was simply the right thing to do
As I said its not something that hasn't been done or its something unprecedented or unheard of that will somehow open some sort of Nasty Pandora's box. But the scale of crimes and attrocities committed have led to such a value for the British

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Here is that quote im refering to right now

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Honestly with the people like Ferguson and the British MPs such as Sir Richard Ottaway, they are no less than the delusional Marxists living today

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From the article it seems like people are either under informed on the role their country had in the crimes that happened over seas, and it also seems like this Ethan do understand it aren't "unapologetic," yet just respect their nations famous history

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and hence found the quotes I am making right now

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The article makes it seems like the brits have similar feeling towards their nation that US has about its. The crimes that we did commit are bad, but those are behind us so we must remember the impact it made on history

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# quick surge

Ferguson also suggests that, in the long run, the victims of British imperialism will prove to have been its beneficiaries, since the Empire laid the foundations for their eventual success in tomorrow’s globalized world. But human beings do
not live in the long run; they live, and suffer, in the here and now, and the process of colonial rule in India meant economic exploitation and ruin to millions, the destruction of thriving industries, the systematic denial of opportunities to compete, the elimination of indigenous institutions of governance, the transformation of lifestyles and patterns of living that had flourished since time immemorial, and the obliteration of the most precious possessions of the colonized, their identities and their self-respect.

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Response to deleted message: But in fact that they are not. The British left a society with 16 per cent literacy, a life expectancy of 27, practically no domestic industry and over 90 per cent living below what today we would call the poverty line. Compared to the high scholarly minds of Sant Kabir, and other intellectual gurus and Minds before the British step foot on the shores. Even US statesman Willian Jennings has said that the blood and looting of the British colonial seeps even today to the grounds of India

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Ferguson seems like someone who respects a nation for the wrong reasons. That is one bad egg that can't speak for everyone, or anyone really for that matter

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BRITISH TOP UNIVERSITIES's professors on History are propagating that Colonialism was the better and defend such attrocities

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So the entire notion that people are currently changing on their notion of the British empire simply means that they are changing their notion to make it seem like the British empire are a group of pacifists

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If thousands of us were not killed in extracting those diamonds, the kohinoor would not be there in Buckingham palace right now

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It just happened to make the gov rich

quick surge
# solid portal That wasn't the government as it was British entrepreneurs that saw an opportuni...

No, these diamond mines were under the direct control of the British and even the Prince of Wales Edward VIII personally oversaw these extraction in 1921 and ordered the killing of starving and famished workers who could not meet the extraction quota. The fact is the British put in the minimum amount of investment to optimize their exploitation by torturing and maiming indian Workers beyond intolerable conditions just for them to be sent back and glued on the crowns of the Satanic Victorian era

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# solid portal It just happened to make the gov rich

Did this "Opportunity to make the Gov Rich" also include slaves? the Wealthy Victorian British families that made their money out of the slave economy, 1/5th of the elites of the wealth class in Britain in the 19th Century owed their money to transporting 3 Million Africans and Indian across the waters and in fact in 1833, when slavery was abolished, what happened was that a compensation of 10 Million pounds was paid not as reparations to those who had lost their lives or who had suffered or oppressed by slavery but to those who had lost their property.

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Not only that, Destroyed world famous quality of Handloom weavers. Britain came right in and smashed their thumbs, broke their looms and imposed tariffs and duties on their cloth and products and started of course, taking the raw materials from India and shipping back manufactured cloth and flooding the world’s markets with what became the products of the Satanic mills of Victorian England. This meant that the weavers in India became beggars and India went from being a world famous exporter of finished cloth into an importer, went from having 27% of world trade to below 4%.

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What we face at this point is basically Britons who wish for their Government to continue these Barbaric Practices, 1/3rd of the country to be precise.

lavish field
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Would you rather have infinite bacon but no games

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Or

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Games

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Unlimited games

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But no games

quick surge
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I don’t like bacon so

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Games it is

sturdy rivet
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The continuation war was justifiable.

inner mortar
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That Mao Zedong managed to keep himself afloat in his last 10 years of his life by his actions and his aspiring expectations

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Mao Lmao

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LMAO ZEDONG XDXDXDXDXDXDXD

light moat
steep pine
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Nah

steep pine
remote hazel
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It was

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Got passed around till the latest empire got it

steep pine
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Through various funky old wars but regardless, The British in India did good things such as education for males and females along with the Resuscitation of India's own noble literature, refined by the enlightenment of the West and with other reforms that obviously put an end to big human rights violations. But yes there’s way more things that deliberately was meant to exploit and batter down India if that makes sense.

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And the weaver’s thumb part is unofficial and probably illegal activity, and if it was legal it would produce public out cry in Britain. Plus you have to realize that people classify British Western Imperialism as only immoral but then you have Mongols, the Arabs, and other Western empires that did worse.

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There’s been empires from Afghanistan who have conquered India, smashed up Hindu temples and stole gold and jewels, I’m fine with repartitions for specific events such as the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh Massacre but to a point where it’s just deemed as reparations is incredibly vague put by historical phenomenon like imperial rule.

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Plus aren't a lot of Indian jewels in Iran, why not ask for them as well

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^

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anyways

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And then again India’s GDP didn’t decline in raw terms during the RAJ, it stagnated and didn’t grow compared to Western nation because there was a lack of industrial or scientific research the British focused more on agriculture in India, this is of course a bad policy but it’s far from “looting” as many Indians put it. Many Indians were also beneficiaries of an Imperial system in India, even after independence India basically inherited British influence in the Indian ocean

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plus most of the infrastructure like railroads came from the British and helped the Indians post independence

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^ Britain constructed railroads in economic zones, like they did in the Isles a majority of the money acquired by British RAJ taxes were put towards India but often to British economic and military interests

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Now, the past is in the past, it's time to keep moving forward

broken lagoon
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The F-16 has to be one of the ugliest jetfighter ever manufsctured

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Here's my history hot take...

Failure to thoroughly crush Slave Power after 1865 is the cause of untold problems in the US from the end of Reconstruction on.

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And those problems aren't just limited to the region that threw the temper tantrum either.

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Oh here’s a controversial opinion, I think Germany after ww1 should’ve been split up into a bunch of German states while keeping the Kaiser in power of probably Prussia.

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Go with what France I believe originally wanted

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The British talked them out of it

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steep pine
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I don't. I think Clemenceau was an asshat willing to damn his children or grandchildren to settle his father's grudge.

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Balkanize them, the Saxons and the Bavarians didn’t even like the Prussians they thought they were mean bastards.

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Because I seriously doubt even the Weimar government would have taken that kind of partition sitting down.

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# steep pine But the Kohinoor was passed on by multiple Empires?

Ultimately what was remained constant and Commonly agreed by all leaders was that the Kohinoor would stay in India and near its origins ||Dalrymple, William; Anand, Anita (2017). Koh-i-Noor: The History of the World's Most Infamous Diamond. Bloomsbury. ISBN 978-1-408-88886-5.||

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# steep pine Through various funky old wars but regardless, The British in India did good thi...

But the fact is that this is absolutely false. The British left India with a literacy rate of 16 per cent, and a female literacy
rate of 8 per cent—only one of every twelve Indian women could read and write in 1947. This is not exactly a stellar record, but educating the masses was not a British priority. As prominet Historian Will Durant points out "When the British came, there was, throughout India, a system of communal schools, managed by the village communities. The agents of the East India Company destroyed these village
communities, and took no steps to replace the schools;" MOREOVER he points out by saying that in 1930, Only 7 per cent of the boys and 1 per cent of the girls receive schooling, i.e. 4 per cent of the whole. Such schools as the Government has established are not free, but exact a tuition fee which…looms large to a family always hovering on the edge of starvation.

Britain’s education policy, in other words, had very little to commend itself. It supplanted and undermined an extensive Indian tradition: traditional methods of, as we say in Hindi, guru-shishya parampara which had thrived in India for thousands of Years. In fact Greek Scholars used to call Kashmir as the "Cradle of Knowledge and Civilisation" due to the high levels of educations and standards. Another example is Nalanda University, which enjoyed international renown when Oxford and Cambridge were not even close in their founders’ eyes, employed 2,000 teachers and housed 10,000 students in a remarkable campus that featured a
library nine storeys tall. It is said that monks would hand-copy documents and books which would then become part of private collections of individual scholars.

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So the notion that the British "Educated" the Indian Populace is absolutely false and delusional

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# steep pine Through various funky old wars but regardless, The British in India did good thi...

"Put an End to Human Rights Violations"
This is quite possibly THE MOST laughable statement you can make. The British in fact committed the MOST attrocities in India, starting from their arrival on Indian Shores.

Famines:
Great Bengal Famine of 1770 where the British East India Company stole huge amounts of food as "Taxes" Leaving none for the populace of Bengal and ultimately killing 1-10 Million People.

The Indian Famine of 1899 - 1900 where Lord Curzon decided to once again tax the poor to only keep them confortably in his Coffers and Burrows to be sent back to Satatnic Victorian England, Killing At Least 1 Million People

A Major famine in 1876-1877m mishandlled by Viceroy Lord Lytton

Attrocities
Post the war of Independence 1858, the British tied civilans to the Mouths of Cannons and massacred thousands of Innocient Civilans
Jallianwalla Bagh Massacre 1919
Mangadh Massacre
Pal-Chitariya massacre
And a lot more off i cant remember off the top of my head

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Rapes

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Looting

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Torture

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Maiming

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all part of the Colonial system to exploit and destroy the Indian legacy

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# steep pine And the weaver’s thumb part is unofficial and probably illegal activity, and if...

No it would not produce British outcry, because in a Satanic Victorian Society where slave owners are paid "Compensation" for losing their slaves after slave trade was banned, this would not even raise an eye brow because all that the British cared about was their own profits. And DO NOT compare what the British did to India to other empire like the Mongols, that type of Whataboutism is just rubbish where you compare the depredations of one of the most Developed and richest countries in the world to street beggars and a "Third World country"

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The British looting was done to such an extent not even Abdalli or even Aurangzeb would have thought of in their wildest dreams

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# steep pine And then again India’s GDP didn’t decline in raw terms during the RAJ, it stagn...

In 1600, when the East India Company was established,
Britain was producing just 1.8 per cent of the world’s GDP, while India was generating some 23 per cent. By 1940, after nearly two centuries of the Raj, Britain accounted for nearly 10 per cent of world GDP, while India had been reduced to a poor ‘third-world’ country, destitute and starving, a global poster child of poverty and famine. The "Lack of Industrial or Scientific research" notion was just basically where the British and the Europeans would use their research and industry, set it up for themselves and then Loot India by using them while leaving none for the local populace.

For example, the railway workshops in Jamalpur in Bengal and Ajmer in Rajputana were established in 1862 to maintain the trains, but their Indian mechanics became so adept that in 1878 they started designing and building their own locomotives that were just as good as British made ones and way more cheaper. But just like how British wanted everything for themselves including every last cent of railway profit, in 1912 they passed an act of Parliament explicitly making it impossible for Indian workshops to design and Manufacture locomotives, and only allowed them to import locomotives from Britain. All for their own profits

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"Britain Industrialised India", "India didnt grow because of lack of Industralisation by the local people"

KISS. MY. FUCKING. ASS

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We later had to train ourselves to operate these same railways because the British would not do it for us

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Average British v Indian fight

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# steep pine ^ Britain constructed railroads in economic zones, like they did in the Isles a ...

You sound like those apologists which find a way to say "Oh british did something good" , "LOOK THE RAILWAYS!"

While ignoring the obvious fact that many countries also built railways without having to go to the trouble and expense of being colonized to do so. The railways were made by the east India company to just loot india further, even Governer-General Lord Hardinge said in 1843 that the The railways were intended principally to transport extracted resources, coal, iron ore, cotton and so on, to ports for the British to ship home to use in their factories. In its very conception and construction, the Indian railway system was a big colonial scam. British shareholders made absurd amounts of money by investing in the railways, where the government guaranteed returns on capital of 5 per cent net per year, unavailable in any other safe investment. That was an
extravagantly high rate of return those days, possible only because the government made up the shortfall from its revenues, payments that of course came from Indian, and not British, taxes. As a result each mile of Indian
railway construction in the 1850s and 1860s cost an average of £18,000, as against the dollar equivalent of £2,000 at the same time in the United States.

Britons made the money, controlled the technology and supplied all the equipment, which meant once again that the profits were repatriated. It was a scheme described at the time as ‘private enterprise at public risk’. All the losses were borne by the Indian people, all the gains pocketed by the British trader—even as he penetrated by rail deep into the Indian economy.

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All in all, what i have noticed is that you are basically the same delusional brainwhashed apologists who in Britain preach about how their Massacres, Famines and looting was for the better of India and then celebrate the fact that we are democratic at the end of it. Trying to Justify the Human Rights violations under the ruse that the British "Civilised people" while also looting the riches from their backs, and spitting in the faces of people who fought for democracy and Independence such as my Ancestors.

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So a HUGE FUCK YOU to you mate

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I am only fighting Uneducation and Propaganda
Properly

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In fact our colonisation cemented the union of Britain with Scotland

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off the backs of Indian being slaves

steep pine
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But it still ended up in British hands gifted to them after a military conflict, I never talked about literacy rates whatsoever I said how Britain brought back the idea of education bringing back India’s long lost literature which you said before.

From: Dadabhai Naoroji, Essays, Speeches, Addresses and Writings, (Bombay: Caxton Printing Works, 1887), pp. 131-136.

With Human rights violations there was the idea of sati and infanticide which were outlawed by Britain, then the Destruction of Gangs and allowing the remarriage of Hindu widows. Again I never said Britain didn’t commit Human rights violations in India, and I agree that the RAJ vastly had more cons than pros.

Third yes it would cause outcry in Britain as countless times in history there’s been outcry for colonial issues that resulted in indigenous peoples having their civil liberties abused and revoked.

Mahmud of Ghazni invaded India 17 times, each time demolishing Hindu temples and carting away gold and jewels, legit the British renovated temples and were far more archaeologically oriented.

With economics as I said before Britain obviously focused railroads at economic sectors, Indians could have built their own railways had they been independent but not every British-build railway is the product of exploitation

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And you can’t be serious mkre Indian crown jewels are locked up in vaults at Central Bank of Iran in Tehran where the National Jewelry Museum is located than in Great Britain, I completely agree reparations should be payed for specific events and to specific people and the cons far out produce the pros.

stable sand
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Controversial opinions should be made into its own channel so we can earn XP when we talk here

limpid folio
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Yes

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During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to around 450 million. You’re also neglecting the irrefutable fact that the British introduced ORDER into the delirious Indian population - the British had secured particular rights for women, such as the law allowing to remarry. There was a profoundly remarkable progress on the Indian education system (multiple universities were established), and the ameliorated medicine which contributed to containment of several diseases and the prevention of high mortality, death rates. The paradigm of industrial technologies was also developed in the British Raj. Directive measures and efforts to create a sanitation structure was also implemented. I would also remind you about the railway system you have so preposterously criticized - it was a major part of the success in the economic adjustment and advancement of the Indian nation.
Compendiously concluding, the British had prepared India to become a nation capable of defending itself and sustaining the necessities of its people, British had a particularly positive influence - take into account a primary part of Indian history was clinging at the knees of large empires, specifically the Muslim ones. I am not repudiating the fact that India was a prosperous, culturally thriving civilization that existed for centuries, HOWEVER, why wouldn’t you contemplate the fact that India in fact is a geographical term describing the Indian subcontinent - let me elucidate my point - India before declaring independence from the British in 1947 was NEVER united. If not for the British, there would be no Indian nation, instead diverse societies enveloping the subcontinent. Mumbai wouldn’t become the financial economic center while New Delhi wouldn’t be the capital.
Here is a part of my article on the subject I’ve written a few months ago:

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if we compare the Indian subcontinent under British colonial rule to the one exerted by the Ashanti which carved up India or Mughals who enslaved thousands of Hindis, we will realize that the British actually brought benefits. For instance, the British have introduced a variety of possibilities for greater education, the colonizers established a range of universities in India. They have also developed the law on the Indian subcontinent, policies regarding women’s rights were adopted as to oppose the strictly evil practices by the people of India. For centuries women there have been excluded from social as for cultural life. The British also ensured that women could freely remarry after divorce. Instead of these accomplishments we commemorate Britain’s actions aimed toward nutrition and food storage policies that led to a decline and famines. However, it is factual that the subcontinent had suffered a famine each 40 years. We find it insignificant, we only focus on the mistake of the British. Let me remind you that the population of India soared from 170 million to 450 million over the course of the British Raj due to medicine, health, accurate and proper nutritional standards - all the improvements organized by British colonial authorities. It’s important to say at least, that democratic legislatures wouldn’t develop within regions colonized by Britain.

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@quick surge oh one more thing, if the Indian people would be so determined, conscientious and willing to overthrow “oppressive British regime”, why did Britain station merely 250 thousand troops (to be precise, these comprised of East India Company troops), during 19th century compared to millions upon millions of the Indian population?

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The British empire has industrialized, forcefully united, and assembled as what we resemble today as India

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I am indignant when I see such individuals whose resentment is unjustified by PROPER FACTS, you shall not forward disseminating your envy of the British success, envisioning obnoxious misdeeds and insulting the empire which unified that Indian nation. It is simply an effrontery.

sacred tundra
# quick surge off the backs of Indian being slaves

Reflecting the topic of slavery - the British empire was the first empire in history, the earliest to abolish it, already in 1833. Slavery was in fact a detriment to the British economy. Solely 3000 Britons owned slaves and were considered part of upper class aristocracy. It would damage the economy at the longer term as individual smaller businesses interest rates would be less appealing. The slaves would produce the cheapest goods and thus they would be sold in that manner, while the free market consequently suffered - ordinary businesses couldn’t keep up with the pace of the slaves, they wouldn’t have the opportunity to lower prices to the point where the businesses could commence to compete with cheap slave labor.

tiny heath
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Like America's war on drugs or something?

sacred tundra
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No…

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The British formally abolished slavery without repercussions. The slave owners had to accede to the peremptory order of the government

spice shadow
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Based and Britpilled

remote hazel
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Lethal Injecting Tea into veins all day

quick surge
# sacred tundra The British empire has industrialized, forcefully united, and assembled as what ...

This argument is the exact same thing highly condemned, racist and apologist British MP Andrew Roberts said in Parliament. The accusation that such modernization could not have taken place without British imperial rule is particularly galling. Why would India, which throughout its history had created some of the greatest (and most modern for their time) civilizations the world has ever known, not have acquired all the trappings of developed or advanced nations today, had it been left to itself to do so. the story of India, at different phases of its several-thousand-year-old civilizational history, is replete with great educational institutions, magnificent cities ahead of any conurbations of their time anywhere in the world, pioneering inventions, world-class manufacturing and industry, a high overall standard of living, economic policies that imparted prosperity, and abundant prosperity, in short, all the markers of successful ‘modernity’ today and there is no earthly reason why this could not again have been the case, if it had had the resources to do so which were instead drained away by the British to be sent Back to the Satanic Victorian Era.

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When you have a situation where colonisers are actually paying white's and slave owners for losing their property you just get a sense of how badly they go to the extent of trying to treat the colonised inhumanely. Also BE SHAMEFUL YOU ARE TRYING TO JUSTIFY SLAVERY FOR ECONOMIC REASONS.

Slavery was a massive human rights violation committed ever since the East India Company set their foot onto India. Violating Human Rights simply because it sustains one's economy, is a failed economy nonetheless where it runs on the basis of slavery, plunder, war, corruption, landgrabbing,
famines, exploitation, indentured labour, impoverishment, massacres, genocide and forced resettlement

remote hazel
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Compensated Emancipation was normal, other nations did it

sacred tundra
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# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Now that you did bring up the rule of Law, I will show you what their "Rule of Law" is.

‘The new system was not designed to create a stable political order in the Indian countryside, Its aim was to defend the integrity of the East India Company from accusations in Britain of venality and vice. It began life as
an effort to manage metropolitan moral anguish, not thandle the complaints of Indians about what Company officers were doing in India' says one Eye witness.

the British did not care about, like education and health, while real power, including taxation, law and order and the authority to nullify any vote by the Indian legislators, would rest with the British governor of the provinces. The governor, and at the centre the viceroy, retained the right to reject any vote of the elected legislators and enact any laws the elected representatives refused to pass. Far from leading to ‘the progressive realization of responsible government in India’, this was regressive indeed, and it was unanimously rejected by Indian public opinion and by the Mahatma, who felt a deep sense of personal betrayal.
In India the British were forced to use coercion and cruelty to get their way; often they had to resort to the dissolution of prior practices and traditional systems, as well as, in the process, to reshape civil society. In the circumstances,
as a British scholar has noted, ‘the law that was erected can hardly be said to have served the interests of colonial subjects.’

"Rule of Law" Forget kissing, EAT. MY. ASS

sacred tundra
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Once more I shall say, it is an ambivalence, what you have stated about my aspects enveloping slavery

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You’re an impudent feller, ain’t you?

quick surge
# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Lets talk about the so called "Women's Rights" that the British have given.

India’s rape law, enshrined in the colonial-era Indian Penal Code, placed the burden of the victim to establish her
‘good character’ and prove that a rape had occurred, which left her open to discredit by opposing counsel. Many rapes were never reported as a result of the humiliation to which this system subjected the victims.

Section 497, criminalizing adultery, punishes extramarital relationships involving married women but not married men. A husband can prosecute his wife for adultery, and a man having sexual relations with his wife, but a woman cannot
sue her husband for having an extramarital relationship, provided his partner is not underage or married. This double standard, exposed in a series of recent cases, again reflects Victorian values rather than twenty-first century ideas of
morality. Ironically, in all three cases, the British have revised their own laws, so none of the offences they criminalized in India are illegal in Britain. One of the worst legacies of colonialism is that its ill effects outlasted the Empire.

Meanwhile on Literacy rate, only one of every twelve Indian women could read and write in 1947, compared to the High scholarly levels of some of the brighest Women who learnt in Kashmir and achieved marvels.

Women were treated with Victorian paternalism and not a little misogyny. Institutionally, for instance, women on the Malabar coast who benefited from matrilineal law and enjoyed vast property and social rights, not to speak of
bodily autonomy, were pushed to accept patriarchal shackles as the ‘correct’ and ‘moral’ way of living and subject themselves to husbands and sons, physically, socially, and economically.

So that is Women's rights as an Achievement

quick surge
sacred tundra
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I understand your paroxysm of negative emotions, though I have a question

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Why do you neglect other empires which vanquished Indian subcontinent and subjugated the Indian diverse societies to despicable conditions, a preponderance times harsher and crueler than under British regime

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Why won’t you consider the Muslim conquerors?

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Or 1397 if my memory serves me right

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The looting and ransacking and razing of one of the largest agglomerations

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With no regards to the type of people, wether of Hindu or Muslim faith

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And the indiscriminate genocide of many ethnicities

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As I mentioned earlier, I cannot expand my answer now - I will reply later, if you intend to, we may talk on vc

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The primary cause of my outrage is the fact that people often neglect achievements of the British empire, they merely see the negative aspects which are in fact profusely many, and I do acknowledge all the fails such as famine induced during ww2 (forceful collection of grain, foods consigned to Britian)

quick surge
# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Lets look at the Education system as an "Achievement"

Again as I point out, The British left India with a literacy rate of 16 per cent, and a female literacy rate of 8 per cent—only one of every twelve Indian women could read and write in 1947. As Historian Will Durant Points out:

‘When the British came, there was, throughout India, a system of communal schools, managed by the village communities. The agents of the East India Company destroyed these village communities, and took no steps to replace the schools; even in 1930, they stand at only 66 per cent of their number a hundred years ago. There are now in India 730,000 villages, and only 162,015 primary schools. Only 7 per cent of the boys and 1 per cent of the girls receive schooling, i.e. 4 per cent of the whole. Such schools as the Government has established are not free, but exact a tuition fee which looms large to a family always hovering on the edge of starvation.’

Britain’s education policy, in other words, had very little to commend itself. It supplanted and undermined an extensive Indian tradition: traditional methods of guru-shishya parampara, had thrived in India, as did the many monasteries which went on to become important centres of education, receiving students from distant lands, notably as far from our shores as China and Turkey.
The Pala period, in particular, saw several monasteries emerge in what is now modern Bengal and Bihar, five of which Vikramashila, Nalanda, Somapura Mahavihara, Odantapuri, and Jaggadala were premier educational institutions which created a coordinated network amongst themselves under Indian rulers. I also gave the Example of Nalanda University as a Pinacle of Education in India.

But while such traditions give Indian education its moorings in our culture, there is no escaping the stark fact that modern India lost much of it under British rule, achieved independence with only 16 per cent literacy.

That was British Education as an "Achievement"

sacred tundra
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Hindi history is millennial, more than that. Consider all the oppressors and their misdeeds, accept the British accomplishments and their failures, both. Do bot be driven by hatred

quick surge
# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Lets look at the English language then

The English language was not a deliberate gift to India, but again an instrument of colonialism, imparted to Indians only to facilitate the tasks of the English. In his notorious 1835 Minute on Education, Lord Macaulay articulated the classic reason for teaching English, but only to a small minority of Indians: ‘We must do our best to form a class who may be
interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indians in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals and in intellect.’ The language was taught to a few to serve as intermediaries between
the rulers and the ruled. That Indians seized the English language and turned it into an instrument for our own liberation—using it to express nationalist sentiments against the British, as R. C. Dutt, Dinshaw Wacha and Dadabhai Naoroji and Jawaharlal Nehru was to their credit, not by British design.

quick surge
# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Lets look at Industrial Technology.

Thanks to British imperialism, the organic development of the Indian state and its scientific, technological, industrial and civic institutions could not take place, as it did between the sixteenth and eighteenth centuries in Europe. Colonial exploitation happened instead.

For example The railway workshops in Jamalpur in Bengal and Ajmer in Rajputana were established in 1862 to maintain the trains, but their Indian mechanics became so adept that in 1878 they started designing and building their own locomotives. Their success increasingly alarmed the British, since the Indian locomotives were just as good, and a great deal cheaper, than the British-made ones. In 1912, therefore, the British passed an Act of Parliament, explicitly making it
impossible for Indian workshops to design and manufacture locomotives. The Act prohibited Indian factories from doing the work they had successfully done for three decades; instead, they were only allowed to maintain locomotives imported from Britain and the industrialized world.

By the early 1800s, India had been reduced from a land of artisans, traders, warriors and merchants, functioning in thriving and complex commercial networks, into an agrarian society of peasants and moneylenders. Extensive scholarship has shown how the British created the phenomenon of landlessness, turned self-reliant cultivators into tenants, employees and bondsmen, transformed social relations and as a result undermined agrarian growth and development.

That was Industralisation as an Achievement

quick surge
# sacred tundra During the British occupation Indian population soared from 170 million to aroun...

Lets re-examine the railways then Shall we? My favourite part. My grandfather from both mom and dad's side has worked in the railways, so did my father for some time.

Again you ignore the fact that many countries also built railways without having to go to the trouble and expense of being colonized to do so. In its very conception and construction, the Indian railway system was a big
colonial scam. British shareholders made absurd amounts of money by investing in the railways, where the government guaranteed returns on capital of 5% net per year, unavailable in any other safe investment. That was an extravagantly high rate of return those days, possible only because the
government made up the shortfall from its revenues, payments that of course came from Indian, and not British, taxes. These excessive guarantees removed any incentive for the private companies constructing the railways to economize the higher their capital expenditure, the higher would be their guaranteed return at a high and secure rate of interest. As a result each mile of Indian railway construction in the 1850s and 1860s cost an average of £18,000, as
against the dollar equivalent of £2,000 at the same time in the United States. In the event, it was twenty years or more before the first lines earned more than 5% of their capital outlay, but even after the government had taken over
railway construction in the 1880s, thanks to the rapacity of private British firms contracted for the task, a mile of Indian railway cost more than double the same distance in the equally difficult and less populated terrain of Canada and Australia.

Britons made the money, controlled the technology and supplied all the equipment, which meant once again that the profits were repatriated. It was a scheme described at the time as ‘private enterprise at public risk’. All the losses were borne by the Indian people, all the gains pocketed by the British trader—even as he penetrated by rail deep into the Indian economy.\

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The railways were intended principally to transport extracted resources, coal, iron ore, cotton and so on, to ports for the British to ship home to use in their factories. The movement of people was incidental, except when it served colonial interests; and the third-class compartments, with their wooden benches and total absence of amenities, into which Indians were herded, attracted horrified comment even at the time. No effort was made, in building the railway lines, to ensure that supply matched the demand for popular transport.

And, of course, racism reigned. Nor were Indians employed in the railways. The discriminatory hiring practices of the Indian Railways meant that key industrial skills were not effectively transferred to Indian personnel, which might have proved a benefit. The prevailing view was that the railways would have to be staffed almost exclusively by Europeans to ‘protect investments’. This was especially true of signalmen, and those who operated and repaired the steam trains, but the policy was extended to the absurd level that even in the early twentieth century all the key employees, from directors of the Railway Board to ticket-collectors, were white men—whose salaries and benefits were also paid at European, not Indian, levels and largely repatriated back to England. Moreover, when the policy was relaxed and expensive European labour reduced, there was a continuing search
for the most ‘British-like’ workers. So great was the racist resistance to Indian employees that the project of training drivers was discontinued after a three-year trial, and the drivers who had been trained were once again restricted to yard work.

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Market distortions also occurred with railway development. The railways were responsible, for instance, for sharply raising the price of rice. Before the railways came, slow water-based transport spread surpluses around the districts,
keeping prices in any given areas low. But railways allowed surpluses to be cleanly extracted, essentially making peasants in the rice growing areas compete directly with urban Indians and exporters for rice. The same was true of the fish markets. And there are other examples to show how the interests of Indians were never a factor in railway operations: during World War I, several Indian rail lines were
dismantled and shipped out of the country to aid the Allied war effort in Mesopotamia

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So that, was the Railways as an "Achievement"

quick surge
sacred tundra
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…why would you correlate “white race” with racism. That indicates your bias and hatred. Do you even know if I am white, or of European descent?

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You are being the racist one

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I read some of the first texts you’ve written, unlike you, I do actually pay attention to all of it

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I’ll argue with ya later

quick surge
sacred tundra
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How petulant and insolent of you

quick surge
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I have them

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Instead of points from the deepest ends of my ass

remote hazel
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On the topic of slavery, funny how India still has it Right_back_at_you

sacred tundra
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And I read and acknowledge them, not all though at the current moment.

sacred tundra
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Libya has literal slave markets

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And the CCP has concentration camps for Uyghurs

quick surge
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Backed by citations

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and proof ive researched for what 2 years now

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Even though my Extended Essay is on this topic and Ironically managed to get the Highest grade in it by a British Grader, i still get this research done because this

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This is more than me

quick surge
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I have, 2 hours in my hands to do this

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After that I have to sleep

sacred tundra
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Tomorrow morning? (between 11 am - 13 am CET)

sacred tundra
steep pine
stable mesa
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Historical hot take: I don't see anything inherently wrong with Alsace and Metz being part of Germany, or with Austria being united with Germany, as long as it's not by military conquest or some other coercion.

quick surge
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Provided it wasn’t a Tuesday

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I have extra long classes on tuesdays

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So I am only free after 1PM CET

sacred tundra
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We’ll see if we can manage

quick surge
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I’m guessing if ur typing meaning the VC is not possible

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I would suggest, that keep your arguments for the VC

sacred tundra
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Well I presume that it’s the time to reply to your affronts to the British occupation of Indian subcontinent. Firstly I shall say that there are many truthful cases you’ve adumbrate, however, you have a proclivity for a visceral, emotional approach and I DO understand it - I am a Polish myself, and whenever I meet a communist I overwhelm them with facts of the truly vile, horrifying atrocities inflicted upon our nation and diverse regions of the world

sacred tundra
quick surge
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I’ve also held back some of mine which I also wanted to say

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I’ve readied them for VC

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It’s what 7PM my time

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Which is a good time

sacred tundra
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It’s 9;40 am for me

quick surge
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Perfect

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Wait then isn’t it like 5:40am rn?

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There

sacred tundra
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No, it’s 9:40 am

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Quite early

quick surge
sacred tundra
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Yea

quick surge
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Rn for me it’s still 3:40pm

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Aight I’ll see u man

sacred tundra
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See you feller

quick surge
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Just note maybe keep a buffer till like 1:15 CET

quick surge
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@sacred tundra you ready?
Give me 5 minutes I’ll get myself ready

sacred tundra
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I’m not ready now though, it will be quite inconvenient for me

quick surge
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It’s fine, I’m free after like 2 hours as well

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Or maybe half hour as well

sacred tundra
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The 2 hours would do well

quick surge
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So basically 2PM CST - 3PM CST I have a meeting for my History Extended Essay with a few people from the University I’m applying to

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After that can

sacred tundra
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Great

broken lagoon
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I always found funny how communists praise the "eternsl revolution" is like they know their system is full of crap and always needs an enemy to antagonize to maintain the fasade

quick surge
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@sacred tundra ill be awaiting

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In General VC

sacred tundra
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I apologize for my lack of time - considering my schedule I won’t be available for the next 3 hours. I have to complete some work urgently

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If it’s too late for you today then we shall arrange tomorrow

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Around 11 am CET

quick surge
sacred tundra
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That’s right, however, I’m simply honest with people, and it’s painful for me to abandon previous time stamps

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Or how to call these

quick surge
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As much as Discord debate on this topic is actually helping me on my Internal Essay review ||( Yes I am not joking my topic was on this as well, but i did make a mistake of taking things personally with you and I will apologise as well. However that does not change my lens of view and scope on how I look on this issue)|| which goes on my LoR.

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So thank you in a lightly sarcastic manner I should say

sacred tundra
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I understand, though both of us could learn something new

quick surge
sacred tundra
quick surge
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Or debates

sacred tundra
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On your work

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And mine too, I write quite often

quick surge
sacred tundra
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Not for a university, rather for myself. The short part of my article I’ve posted here earlier is merely a fraction of everything. The mainline topic of the article enveloped the subject of British colonization

quick surge
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So some of the sources I cited, some of the historians I also gave above in my argument as well

quick surge
sacred tundra
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That would be an adequate word, though not precisely a journal it is

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My true journal consists of philosophical and religious contemplations

quick surge
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Also listen, if I do ever cite you giving this argument (Dw I’m counting you as a historian but won’t mention your name won’t really matter that much), I would request for a form to be signed later on

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IF I do

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I might but let’s see

sacred tundra
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And the texts regarding different subject, I perceive it as a complex of articles

sacred tundra
steep pine
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That the world would be a better place if the Nazis won. Like the world would be faced under some strict rules and many races would have been killed

steep pine
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Dude

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You’re joking right? It would be far worse like incredibly far worse if the nazis won or well the Axis powers one.

steep pine
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Im saying that there are people who like the fact that the Axis would have won

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Oh oh

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I misread it

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I thought that was your opinion

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But they would’ve never won regardless

broken lagoon
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Ngl i also missread that

stray magnet
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Controversial opinion, Germany shouldn’t have existed after World War I and France should have dissolved it

stable mesa
remote hazel
stray magnet
stray magnet
steep pine
remote hazel
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The funny part is that’s basically the writing event

stray magnet
steep pine
remote hazel
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Embrace Border Gore

stray magnet
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Only true fans will remember this

steep pine
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Alright that’s doing too much

stable mesa
steep pine
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Let’s be real now the Bavarians and the Saxons don’t even like the Prussians

stray magnet
stable mesa
stray magnet
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Kinda already intensified the hatred by like anyone that was catholic

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Poles, Bavarians, Saxons…names go on

steep pine
quick surge
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Done, solved

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World is in everlasting peace

steep pine
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Just another far right or far left douche to fill his place

quick surge
stable mesa
# quick surge Done, solved

Not solved.

The ultimate cause of WWII in Europe as it developed was Georges Clémenceau and his inability to see past his hateboner for Germany over a territory that was populated by Germans in the first place.

steep pine
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Jesus Christ jabroni

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Just break it up

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Break up Germany left and right

remote hazel
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Yugonostalgia is hitting

quick surge
steep pine
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Hanover Br’ish again

stable mesa
steep pine
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We got saxony, bavaria, prussia, and the burgs

steep pine
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Are you talking about their immigration problems?

stable mesa
steep pine
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And who won ww1 and ww2?

stable mesa
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The wrong side won WWI, which is why we had WWII.

remote hazel
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Man said Wrong Side lmao

steep pine
remote hazel
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Plus those other ppl consider themselves French first

stray magnet
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But hear me out

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The gas should have killed him, not blind him

steep pine
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Private Tandey should’ve popped him

stray magnet
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He should have let his intrusive thoughts win

steep pine
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Hitler is stupid and gay

light moat
steep pine
light moat
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really?

steep pine
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Yes

light moat
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how was he stupid or gay

steep pine
light moat
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blud thats not how it works

steep pine
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You wouldn’t get it

light moat
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not supporting hitler here but he wasnt stupid, he made some stupid mistakes tho

steep pine
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He is a stupid dumbo

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True fact

light moat
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but gay?

steep pine
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Yes

stable moon
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he has only got one ball

steep pine
light moat
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now thats a fact

stable mesa
sacred tundra
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Rommel has 3 or 5

stable mesa
sacred tundra
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Of course I do

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It’s damn well

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And there was a verse about Rommel

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Listen vigilantly

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To the song

broken lagoon
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Close

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It says "Himmler, has somrthing similar"

sacred tundra
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Yeah, that too

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Lol

light moat
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Lmao

steep pine
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Hitler is stupid

steep pine
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France is good.

fair mulch
stable mesa
quick surge
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I have a new one

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The Tokyo Trials were unfair and rigged from the start

steep pine
inner mortar
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though on the other hand, he'd come of a new age when he may have heard of the nukings

quick surge
# steep pine Ok

No I'm being serious
Half the time people were charged for crimes that did not exist while the other half was just the west lashing out in revenge

stray magnet
vale cipher
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Elaborate.

vale cipher
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Pretty much Russia cannot expect NATO to let them annex an entire European country. Both the Soviet Union and the Boris Yeltsin government recognised Ukraine as an independent country the Soviets within the Union. Putin just does not recognise Ukraine because he is following the same policies as Stalin and bringing Russian Imperialism to the 21st century. He just wants their land because he wants full control over former Soviet states to restore the Russian Empire like Stalin did. This is just irredentism what real basis is there for saying the Ukraine government is neo-Nazis it is clearly a load of shit. If anything the way the Kremlin is acting makes them actually Fascist since they are invading other countries for Lebensraum and trying to oppress and wipe out other people's. Russians are already planning on buying housing in Mariupol annexed by Russia after Ukraine held it under siege for months. Russia just wants to do with Ukrainians what the it did the Crimean Tartars for centuries. Relocate them to make them powerless and colonise Crimean with Russians. The Soviets did the final act and forcefully relocated the Crimean Tartars in which many died. Guess who is now working with Ukraine? Ukraine does not forget the Holomodor they know it's either fight and win or have them and their children suffer under Russian oppression where they have no freedom. Putin and his cronies only care about power everything else is secondary including the lives of their own people. The Russian diaspora is just a convenient excuse Russia had enough power to resolve any issues peacefully but choose military conflict. We don't even know what goes on inside these breakaway regions since Western media are not allowed access and they are basically ruled by dictators. There is no place for irredentism in the 21st century and if Russia has to be reminded of that through total military defeat then so be it they brought this on themselves. Slava Ukraini!

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Result of being a former Soviet state. Zelensky is combatting it. The main thing is that Ukraine is using the aid to fight well which they are doing. I remind you no Ukrainian Oligarch would want to be exiled abroad in their own country by a foreign government.

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Source?

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True

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In wartime if they collaborate with the enemy even in a democracy it is the right thing to do.

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Let's be honest there are newer aircraft that could do the same thing. The only thing stopping it from being retired is opposition from those soldiers it aided.

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Yes M4 was best.

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Use an F35-B. Also does the US really need something that operates from such an improvised airbase? They would just build a proper strip. You would have more at an airbase than an A-10 anyway. It is also decades old retirement should be soon considering there is a point where the existing frames are no longer airworthy.

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US air force using dirt runaways 😂.

fair hearth
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Finally some F-35 broskis

vale cipher
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Beast mode is pretty potent. Your also forget there is plenty of other fighter bombers that could do ground support missions. A specialisee aircraft to do that is so outdated it's like the US making a heavy tank instead of an MBT.

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A-10 airframes are gonna be unairworthy soon and the US will not make another dedicated ground support aircraft it is a waste.

fair hearth
vale cipher
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What!!!??? 😂

image0.gif
fair hearth
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Also says stuff like "Oh beast mode is useless since duh F-35 will lose it's stealth"

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Like no

vale cipher
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Yeah sure not paved.

fair hearth
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F-35s will only switch to beast mode once they've already completed SEAD

vale cipher
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US can make proper runaways. Even middle east countries can pave a runaway.

fair hearth
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It's pretty simple to understand how the more expensive and high tech jet is gonna be obviously better than a legacy system

vale cipher
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That's what the US is preparing for right now. Fighting insurgencies ended with withdrawal from Afghanistan.

stable moon
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and war thunder players

vale cipher
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True but at least it has a long life ahead of it unlike the planes made in the 70's

stable moon
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tfw the a10 gets replaced by an overgunned crop duster

fair hearth
vale cipher
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That comes from a 30mm autocannon not A-10 alone mount it on something else.

stable moon
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can a10s be used as light bombers tho? i mean the payload is kind of that much

fair hearth
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It's kinda why the US got to bomb Vietnam more than the entirety of WW2

stable moon
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if i remember correctly

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the torpedo bomber in question:
https://youtu.be/jV8RlSkNDvM

YouTube
IHYLS
Douglas' Excessively Large Torpedo Bomber: Douglas XTB2D Skypirate

In this video, we talk about the Douglas XTB2D Skypirate, a late-WWII torpedo bomber that, if made, would be the largest single-engine carrier-based aircraft ever made. We talk about the evolution in aircraft carriers that led to the Skypirate being made. We compare the design to other designs from the same era, like the Douglas TBD Devastator, ...

▶ Play video
vale cipher
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The air force would disagree. At the end of the day A-10 for morale is not necessary.

fair hearth
stable moon
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what fairchild republic propaganda does to a mf

vale cipher
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Now I think about shoving loads of guns and optics on a transport aircraft is surely cheaper than making dedicated CAS?

fair hearth
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The only pros an A-10 has are cost and range

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Other than that nahhhh

vale cipher
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Which US military does not really have much of a presence anymore

fair hearth
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Stealth is just that much of a game changer

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Not to mention how the F-35s sensor suite gives it eyes on everywhere

vale cipher
broken lagoon
fair hearth
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I'd say it's the opposite

broken lagoon
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good thing you delete you comment else i would have made fun of you

fair hearth
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You don't need stealth as much when facing against a weaker military

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The main selling point of stealth is it allows aircraft to operate in a densely protected airspace like that of Russia's

stable moon
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  • funni element of surprise
broken lagoon
fair hearth
stable moon
fair hearth
broken lagoon
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than building and maintaining another A-10

fair hearth
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The A-10 is in that awkward position where it cannot survive in a modern conflict and is way too overkill for anti insurgencies

broken lagoon
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yeah

fair hearth
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Loiter time this, loiter time that

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The prop boi can stay in the air longer

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And the supersonic jet can reach the target faster

broken lagoon
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that is actually what i told fizhat when i discussed with him the same thing

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the A-10 is considerably slower than multi-role aircraft, so having it on a FOB is to negate the fact that is a slow aircraft

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so it doesnt matter that much if its closer than the other airstrip with F-(whatever) if they are considerably faster than the A-10

stable moon
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"you're are as slow as a P-47"

  • the missile guidance system roasting the A-10
vale cipher
# fair hearth The main selling point of stealth is it allows aircraft to operate in a densely ...

I read quite a lot of what you posted and I feel it would be right to just say I am from the UK and disagree that the British Empire is something people should be proud of. Same thing for any country that had a colonial empire. Colonial empires were all obviously intended for the ruthless exploitation of the people and resources in other lands. Basically ruthless power grabbing by mainly Western European countries that started off with Portugal but in the preceding centuries as other countries tried to do the same got far worse.

stable moon
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uh

vale cipher
stable moon
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fair enough

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was baffled for a second

broken lagoon
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i thought i was having a stroke

fair hearth
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We got colonized lol

stable moon
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ah yes, making the british empire as something to be proud of is the main selling point of stealth aircraft

stable moon
fair hearth
stable moon
fair hearth
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Along with how the lower radar signature makes it harder for radar based weapons to track it

stable moon
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facts brother!1!!1!1!1 so true my friend!1!1!1!!1!1

fair hearth
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Best bet to shoot down a stealth boi is using heat tracking or manually guided systems

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Similar to how Serbia shot down an F-117

broken lagoon
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well

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no

stable moon
fair hearth
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Was it serbia?

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I forgot

stable moon
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i think its serbia

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idk

vale cipher
# quick surge Lets re-examine the railways then Shall we? My favourite part. My grandfather fr...

I read quite a lot of what you posted and I feel it would be right to just say I am from the UK and disagree that the British Empire is something people should be proud of. Same thing for any country that had a colonial empire. Colonial empires were all obviously intended for the ruthless exploitation of the people and resources in other lands. Basically ruthless power grabbing by mainly Western European countries that started off with Portugal but in the preceding centuries as other countries tried to do the same got far worse.

broken lagoon
# fair hearth Was it serbia?

serbia shot it down cuz it picked up the F-117 radio signature at the same time it open its bomb bays, which expanded its radar cross section significantly

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so it was bad luck

vale cipher
fair hearth
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So they had to manually guide the missile

vale cipher
fair hearth
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What

fair hearth
stable moon
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nah

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aerial witchcraft

vale cipher
fair hearth
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The question is how early?

vale cipher
quick surge
vale cipher
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Or maybe if it's worthy to be on his set.

fair hearth
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What

vale cipher
fair hearth
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Yeah?

vale cipher
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You mean the Griffin emoji comment. I just thought the sheer amount of things that could convey with that expression would be a lot

fair hearth
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Ahhhhhhh

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lol

steep pine
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The Soviets were worse than the Nazis.

quick surge
steep pine
broken lagoon
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Lavrenti Beria

remote hazel
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granted they did kill more

broken lagoon
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true but only cuz the nazis didnt last long

remote hazel
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yeah

stable mesa
quick surge
steep pine
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Think about how fucked up the nazis are, so Hitler decided while he was loosing ww2 to ramp up the extermination of the jews instead of diverting manpower to his industry and to various fronts he diverted it all to extermination. That’s how evil the nazis and Hitler were and they did that in a short time period.

stable moon
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heres some goofy gun opinion

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the federov avtomat is not an assault rifle

fair hearth
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Actually used the jews for forced labor

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Ideologically it made more sense for the Nazis to kill the jews when it became obvious they were loosing the war

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In their eyes the world would be doomed without them; the Aryan race

fair hearth
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They might as well just bring down the jews in the process

steep pine
fair hearth
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Hitler started this war on the belief he was preserving civilization via lebensraum

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Lebensraum was not possible anymore since they were losing the war

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So they resorted to killing the jews en masse

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The logic basically being

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If the Aryans cannot expand

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Then the jews must be exterminated

steep pine
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But any logical person would’ve focused on keeping millions in forced labor

fair hearth
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A hardcore christian would've prayed to God 300 times asking for forgiveness in a burning house instead of just leaving the front door

fair hearth
#

The core of Nazi ideology is the Aryan race

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Not winning the war

steep pine
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If you’re a nazi yea that’s logical but I’m sure to anyone else no it’s downright stupid

fair hearth
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I mean yeah?

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But then it's from their pov

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So it wasn't stupid

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At least for them

vale cipher
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Vyborg is rightful Finnish territory

image0.gif
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Viipuri shall forever be in our hearts.

steep pine
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You should also restore your Monarchy.

inner mortar
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Restore the Ancient Suomi Empire

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Undo what the Koreans have done Creepy

stable moon
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we kind of need another finno-korean hyperwar

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jokes aside the idea of prehistoric empires is cool ngl

vale cipher
light moat
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Restore Carthage

eager lodge
broken lagoon
light moat
crisp lantern
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we can make canada proud

stable mesa
stray magnet
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Rome > Carthage

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Only the BC kids will understand

rain kayak
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My controversial tought is that Italy ended unification on ww1

inner mortar
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but who am I kidding at

jade skiff
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Feels kinda weird to rank Huns higher than so many more considering how short-lived their successs was

inner mortar
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yeah, quite an ambiguous thing I made

stray magnet
stray magnet
quick surge
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😈