#Mute system changes

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lapis bay
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Hi chat! So most of you know the muting system… isnt the best here- with a lot of users feeling they’ve been falsely muted, and in numerous cases, being right, along with the fact that you can get muted even for joking around with a friend (“fuck you” can result in a toxicity mute even if both users know each other and have that type of humour).

Now I understand that the server wishes to prevent toxicity such as the aforementioned above, however I believe the current muting system is not doing its job.

Lunar’s mute system is there to prevent toxicity and arguments and to keep the server a fun and safe place for all.

Often, users are left in the dark as to why they’ve been muted or what messages got them muted - sometimes even having to chase up staff themselves. This is partially due to the anonymity factor of staff mutes. Yet this CAN (not always) end with a confused user having no clue as to why they were muted, and maybe even repeat the offence in future.

The above does nothing to reduce toxicity levels. There is no indication as to what specifically resulted in a mute for the user, and although it may be easy to see for a staff member, many times new users may witness regulars here have arguments and say certain things without being instantly muted, and then say these things they’ve seen said already, thinking they are working within the rules.

Hai! If you’ve made it this far just add a 📦 emoji to ur reply, i wont be responding to people who only read the tl:dr and not the whole post. Id rather someone understand the idea fully before they make an objection.

What i’m proposing is, in the mute report the lunar client bot sends to you, have some quoted messages linked. These can be inputted by the staff issuing the mute and takes 30 seconds at most. In case the messages have been deleted, a nearby message may be quoted or alternatively, the message in question.

What this would fix

This would fix the problem of newcomers being unknowingly muted, reduce repeated offences and make all members more aware of what counts as humour and what lies outside the boundaries of the rules. All without requiring extra fixes lunar seems averse to, such as revealing which staff issued which mute, allowing for formal mute appeals, or issuing warnings before a mute (publicly, 2 warnings, in chat. No this does not always happen).

Though all of the above are excellent ideas. Excellent ideas for another thread I assume.

tl;dr Lunar mutes can leave users confused, repeated offences are common.

Be more specific abt why someone gets muted by adding the messages in question as links to the mute report sent by the Lunar client bot.

Less repeated offences, less confused users, more awareness of rules.

Feedback appreciated

shell archBOT
lapis bay
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also

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there are no disadvantages to the above (that im aware of)

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so im more puzzled why it’s not already a thing than anything else

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liked

lapis bay
ashen crown
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🔥,📦

ebon garden
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no one in this server gets muted for saying some wild shit/good reason its always cuz they were aruging or hurt some staff’s feeling. I told some daya dude little boy and then he muted me ;-; this server is filled with a bunch of staff that get hurt at every little insult thrown at them. 98% of mutes are staff feelings getting hurt 1% advertisement 0.5% arguments and drama 0.4% someone said some wild shit and the other 0.1% trolls like shrinu

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for once we can agree on something

lapis bay
lapis bay
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Don’t rly want to do that so

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Imo the rules r quite harsh but again, as mentioned in the above post, that’s for another thread

ebon garden
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🤷‍♂️ not sure if its the rules or the staff but yea

lapis bay
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1 blocked msg

quiet hill
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Most punishments are accurate and most of the people that complain about being muted always have a history on this server. It's not hard to know what's allowed and what isn't. There's people on here who chat a lot and have never been punished and some who have been punished once or twice. If they can do it, everyone can do it.

We've already gone through why we don't give you your evidence and if your mute is false then it normally gets removed unless you mute evade. It's always the same people that get muted 30 times for breaking the same rules over and over that complain the most.

If you've been on this server long enough you don't need a verbal warning. You should know what is right and what is wrong. You get verbal warnings // bot warnings the first time around. Not when you've broken rules 30 times.

I could make the rules more in depth but people still wouldn't read them and then threads like this would be created again.

Also if you want to report a staff member you can make a report on our support site. All reports get sent to me and I look through them and make sure the punishment is valid.

We do not officially handle mute/ban appeals right now and no staff is required to talk to you about your punishment but we'll have a system in place soon to do mute appeals and maybe ban appeals. Lots of our devs are busy with school and finals coming up so whenever it happens; it happens.

lapis bay
quiet hill
lapis bay
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were u looking for a resposne to what you said or just encouraging further discussion?

quiet hill
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both

lapis bay
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just asking since normally threads r closed after staff “final statement” type msgs (which is fair)

lapis bay
lapis bay
# quiet hill Most punishments are accurate and most of the people that complain about being m...

These are all understandable from the perspective of staff running the server. Personally, I too get where a lot of these points/opinions are coming from.

That being said, there are a few things I’d like to say about some points you made - either for clarification of something small or just from piqued curiosity:

Firstly, the appeals idea sounds great and it’s understandable that devs are busy with exams/finals etc. so regardless of when that rolls out, im sure it’ll be welcomed by all.

Secondly, with your point about being given “verbal warnings”, while I agree that a warning may be given by chatmods or staff in the chat in some occasions, a lot of the time, mutes are just issued with no warning. Whether this is because staff thought something may be obvious or not, i’m not sure.

You could argue that the mute reason would allow the user to understand where they made errors in their texts and allow for rectification. However, therein lies an issue with some mutes - usually ones that are put in the “other” category- which, as you know, can be for a variety of reasons. I’m aware that there’s a limit on the number of reasons you can apply to the bot, hence the “other” category. This unfortunately only generates more uncertainty in the muted party in these cases. I would argue that the variety in the “other” mutes can lead to some uncertainty as to what exactly a user has said to result in a mute, or whether it was a specific message or a mixture of actions. People have friends/friend groups on this server that they’ll act more immaturely around, sometimes resulting in numerous (clusters of) messages a staff could have taken seriously/not realised the users talking were friends, and issue a mute. The friends in this case would be left without an idea of what specifically, out of the numerous clusters that were all jovial in nature, broke the rules.

Thirdly, Id love for an expanded rules section- even if most people wouldn’t read it, there’d be a more widespread understanding of what was within “lunar rules” and what wasn’t - meaning that in these threads still created afterwards, there would be a higher chance that members of the discord would inform posters of their mistakes or misjudgements before youd need to. Perhaps this would even lessen the grey area surrounding banter between friends and toxicity, for example what is counted in each category.

Id also like to address the statement “it’s the same people that get muted 30 times…that complain the most”.
I believe that, while this may be a causation link, there are elements of correlation present too.
Let me explain: the people who get muted more, talk more. If they talk more, they’re likely to be more active; so in turn know more people; and use more features of this disc. Talking more = a larger volume of messages = more time spent on lunar (and likely discord in general). If the average human complains approximately 15-30 times a day (various sources on Google) then you’d expect a larger proportion of an active user’s complaints to take place while they are exposed to/online on discord. While this may relate to something minor with their friends, they may have an impulse to create a suggestion- like I did, despite not being muted within a close time period to my suggestion being made, neither on my main or this account (I believe I am correct in saying you could vouch for this).

What I’m stating is essentially the more active users will complain more since they feel it is their community, and although this may be true of some, I agree that what you suggest is also likely - yet i feel as if some members’ opinions are just not voiced as loudly: a single message in general regarding the “unfairness” experienced by mutes pales in comparison to a full suggestion or even direct message conversation with a staff member.

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The latter is simply more memorable so stands out more, yet is also only attempted by people who feel more at home in this community - the people who are more active, and talk more, some (not all) of whom get muted more.

In conclusion, the appeals system sounds great, an extended version of the rules would be amazing, personally I believe there are many complaints about mutes that aren’t seen (because of many reasons though heavily tilted towards lack of confidence/knowledge from newcomers of what to do), and I am inclined towards thinking that verbal warnings not being issued, before would-be mutes are issued of category “other” is unhelpful for both parties involved. || @quiet hill ||

meager dew
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I support this (liked)

autumn mantle
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i am liking it but too much to read so i am not readinbg

misty knoll
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Great idea

proper cobalt
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So much writing

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:box:

lapis bay
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ty

tropic juniper
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good idea, like a whole essay lol

rustic compass
quiet hill
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Sounds like a bot problem which can be easily fixed tbh

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Ill get it fixed

ebon garden
rustic compass
ebon garden
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like i said i said to some daya dude "little boy" and they muted me idk how fair that is and it's impossible to reach staff after ur muted

ebon garden
quiet hill
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It's not hard to be nice

leaden skiff
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if you mean they're getting false muted because of toxicity
they might do an example for the mutes
like the begging rule, they should add Example for begging: "Can someone please gift me lunar client cosmetic?"

quiet hill
quiet hill
ebon garden
warped smelt
ebon garden
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people troll i mean you can't mute everyone

quiet hill
ebon garden
leaden skiff
ebon garden
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just sounds like they can do whatever

quiet hill
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so you got warned

leaden skiff
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warned for???

quiet hill
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Actually

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I just saw your evidence and lmao

ebon garden
quiet hill
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You were not muted for calling daya a little boy

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Please don't throw out that narrative

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You're toxic and were warned MULTIPLE (more than once) times then you got muted

ebon garden
ebon garden
quiet hill
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But thats not what happened

ebon garden
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SHE LITERALLY SAID STOP ONE TIME LMAOO

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not even to me specifically she said it to everyone

quiet hill
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not the place for this

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move on

ebon garden
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literally was not gonna get muted until i called them little boy idk what ur tryna get to

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ok

lapis bay
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maybe youre just

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toxic a lot lol