balance changes

[white phoenix]

Population changes:
Both miners to 2 pop
Meric pop to 3-4
Jugg pop to 5 (this might not be needed)
Xiphos pop to 5-7 (8+ is too much for xiphos)
Zarek pop to 7
Thera pop to 8
Marrowkai pop to 7-8
Pop for the first CA to 2

Sicklewrath buff:
Splash to 60% (3/4.2 splash damage instead of 2/2.8 splash damage)

2v2 changes:
Miner hustle and rage (and any future temporary buff spells) affect your teammate too
Teammate will gain hold from the other players smithy even if they don't have smithy in their deck (if both sides have smithy, then they gain 30g and 30% instead of stacking and both players gaining 50g and 50%)
Tesla coil has a shared cooldown (so no more double Tesla preventing the tower from being capped as long as the tower players have enough mana for Tesla coils)
Max pop to 80-85
Added new feature exclusive to 2v2 and 2vAI, resource transfer:
You can give your teammate resources or request for resources
Max limit per transfer is 2000g or 1000m
Can only transfer once every 1 minute
Feature is blocked until 1:30 mark

Brilliance changes:
No more magic unit cost reduction
No more refund
Now reduces upgrade mana cost by 50% along with the gold cost reduction

Mana burst (probably controversial):
Instead of reducing order unit cooldowns, reduces magic unit cooldowns by 25%
Marrowkai will summon 1 tdead and 3 deads upon death

Summoning staff:
Increases deads damage by 1

Kytchu volley (this is probably a bug fix rather than an actual balance change):
Can no longer volley on the same place with one arrow

Archis (most likely bug fix + tether buff):
No longer affected by kytchu's cost reduction and arrow volley
Tether shot range increased to the same as normal shot

[steel thunder]

I really like this changes, but why does mana burst also affect marrowkai?

[white phoenix]

Because it was made to affect all magic units instead of all order units and marrowkai is a magic unit

[steel thunder]

👍

I especially appreciate the pop changes and the sickle buff, it doesn't have to be that all generals have preset pop and tt

[white phoenix]

👍

[glad marsh]

leave jugg pop alone

and don't just give acceptance to how bad the magic generals are

balance their stats, not their pop

Archis is still not equal to Kytchu with these changes

and why does an order enchantment buff marrowkai

[white phoenix]

Because it's not an order enchantment anymore

[white phoenix]

I didn't want this post to be me complaining about marrowkai's abilities having too much cooldown again

[white phoenix]

Why? Their stats are not too far off from spears stats and spears are actually better tanks than juggs against most things despite having less HP, so you're pretty much paying more gold and more pop for more damage

[glad marsh]

why does it buff 2 magic units but then suddenly jumping into buffing a magic general

[white phoenix]

Because the magic general is also a magic unit

[glad marsh]

Juggs are fine rn, both have their pros and cons

My win rate with juggs is higher than with spears

[white phoenix]

Yeah, but the pros aren't enough to make juggs take up 20% more pop than spears

[glad marsh]

Juggs simply win every single battle against spears

unless its a jugg vs a ranged but you're basically stupid if you bring your jugg alone

even with spears having all upgrades and attachments they can possibly have, juggs still win

[thorny canopy]

If you want to buff juggs, increase their damage or HP, I don't think we need to reduce their pop

[white phoenix]

Their stats are fine, but their pop is too high

For them to be worth 6 pop while spears are worth 5 pop, then they'll need a rework, but they don't need a rework

[thorny canopy]

In general, it will be ideal if they remain as they are, but for people like you who think there is something wrong with them, they need an upgrade. What's the upgrade? You and I made good concepts

[glad marsh]

not just simple increase

[thorny canopy]

Pop is good, And why do you think they can't be buffed in stats?

[glad marsh]

just remove the delay from jugg charge

[thorny canopy]

Maybe

[thorny canopy]

It's okay with them, you just need to use those who don't take a lot of pop, Crawlers, Archers etc

[thorny canopy]

I think the loss of 1-2 archers in the army for a higher quality and more powerful tank units is fair

[white phoenix]

Spears are actually a better tank against most damage dealers despite having less HP and cost, so I wouldn't say a higher quality tank, they're more like a tank that sacrifices a bit of tankiness and speed for overtime healing and cure and higher damage

[glad marsh]

Jugg charge is worth 2.5 jugg attacks

[white phoenix]

?

[thorny canopy]

• Juggs are more willing to tank units such as Swordwrath, Shadowrath and crawlers because they run forward unlike speartons

[glad marsh]

You can use jugg charge for a mini-scorch

distracting the backline

[river wolf]

sickles have 2/2.8 splash?

[thorny canopy]

No, they live longer + are easier to take to the garrison, so they are more likely to survive than spears

Imo

[glad marsh]

After a rough battle, juggs can regenerate to full health in just 2-3 mins

[thorny canopy]

• In the garrison, they heal faster due to passive healing

[river wolf]

easier to take into garrison?

don't Speartons move faster?

[white phoenix]

3 minutes is enough 180 HP, that's not fast enough and in a late game battle, their passive healing is far out-damaged

[thorny canopy]

Imo, It's just that they have 50 more hp + they can be taken away at the lowest hp even if they are poisoned or burning, because they will not die while they are running to the garrison

[glad marsh]

we still hadn't gotten any jugg upgrade so dont underestimate the juggs

[river wolf]

the +50 hp rly only makes em tankier against high dmg units

[thorny canopy]

Movement speed doesn't matter imo

[white phoenix]

Against archidons:
Spears: 65 hits
Juggs: 50

Against eclipsors:
Spears: 38 hits
Juggs: 34 hits

Against crawlers:
Spears: 450 hits
Juggs: 125 hits

Against swords:
Spears: 45 hits
Juggs: 39 hits

[river wolf]

the block is actually somewhat good

[river wolf]

yeah

[glad marsh]

constant charge on light spammers:

might not be enough but it is devastating

to light units

[thorny canopy]

When I lose 0 juggs out of 6 or 3 speartons out of 7 after a fight, then show it to me again

[river wolf]

hm yes, best thing is if you wanna retreat and that one jugg decides to charge alone into the horde of swordwrath and gets destroyed there

[white phoenix]

That's offensive, spears are better tanks despite having less HP and less cost, so basically you're paying more gold, pop and exchanging speed for damage rather than overall tankiness

[glad marsh]

it's kind of a good thing

the saviour, who ran into the horde, distracted the swords

then no matter, cuz you'll get another jugg anyway

[white phoenix]

It doesn't make sense for juggs to take 20% more pop than spears, they're not as tanky against most commonly used damage dealers, cost more and have less speed, adding more pop on top of that just makes them absolutely worse tanks than spears, especially when used with chaos units

Ironic how spears are better with chaos ranged units than juggs

[glad marsh]

Juggcher

Juggbomber

Juggcrawlipsor

[thorny canopy]

If you don't like something, increase their damage, or HP, or increase their movement speed. They are almost in these numbers, but in the momentary advantage over the enemy due to almost the same cost but greater efficiency

[glad marsh]

Juggs suit well with bombers since they're both offensive

[river wolf]

no wonder why Vampiric soulstealers are allied with Chaos

[thorny canopy]

I don't think you'll understand, but I think it's such a thing that juggs are better with melee units, and speartons are better with ranged units

Imo

[glad marsh]

Juggs and speartons are very different

[thorny canopy]

Maybe I'm wrong

[thorny canopy]

I agree

[glad marsh]

nah you're right

Juggbomber is the bomb

[thorny canopy]

Thanks

Juggcrawl my favorite

[white phoenix]

I understand that, however, juggs aren't that far off from speartons in what they're both meant to do to be worth 20% more pop

10% more pop? Maybe, but not 20% more pop

[glad marsh]

wdym 10% more pop

so is it gonna be 5.5 jugg pop?

[thorny canopy]

Well, that is, melee units have more DPS per pop than any ranged units, and speartons just don't want to tank. Wait a moment

[white phoenix]

Yes, but that's not possible so the next best option (in my opinion) is 5 pop

[glad marsh]

Juggs are pretty good with archers and eclipsors but with bombers and and crawlers they just hit different

[white phoenix]

I still don't get how spears are better with eclipsors than juggs despite spears being order and juggs and eclipsors being chaos

[glad marsh]

cuz

multi empire

[white phoenix]

Eclipsors and juggs combo is too pop consuming

[thorny canopy]

Hello everyone, I'm spearton, My name is Maximilian and I don't care if Swordwrath, Shadowrath or crawlers die because they have less attack range. I've got a spear and I'm doing well.

*Maximilian

[white phoenix]

What this

[raw aspen]

no.

[white phoenix]

Why not?

[thorny canopy]

Spears have this nasty logic, they don't get closer to enemies than their attack, and that's why other weak units die due to the fact that they need to be closer to attack. With juggs there are no such problems, they are ready to rush into the thick of the fight themselves

[raw aspen]

juggs are used with melee eg: swordjug crawler jugg shadowjug

charge knock is fatal

and no bad damage to heavies

[white phoenix]

What about the rest of the post?

[exotic hawk]

Yo don’t advertise your posts in other peoples posts

[raw aspen]

passive heal lets them better at tower

[glad marsh]

it really common

but ok

[exotic hawk]

It’s an assshole move to do

[raw aspen]

yea the 2v2 changes are a joke makes same party players have big advantage

[glad marsh]

you called 95% of active fan idea posters an assshole

[raw aspen]

and they already do with their cordination

[white phoenix]

What?

[glad marsh]

2v2 ranked could work if it required you to have a friend to play

and ofc the enemy will also have a friend

[white phoenix]

Also no sht Sherlock, of course you're gonna have better chances with someone you know than some random guy who probably doesn't even know how to play

[exotic hawk]

Yep, because they are

[glad marsh]

bruh it's so hard to fcking find friends

[raw aspen]

qeueing with randoms would be useless

u can just make a cordinated deck with someone in party

[glad marsh]

(to play with ofc)

[raw aspen]

and ur gonna have the advantage

[white phoenix]

Queueing with a competent random will actually be good with these changes

[raw aspen]

it will be worse

are u dumb

[white phoenix]

TF you mean it will be worse?

[raw aspen]

spells benefiting both teams is better for party because they can make the best deck to benefit eachother

like bro

get it through ur head

[white phoenix]

Playing with any competent player is good and will be better

[raw aspen]

ur not making a point here

anyway im done with this

@glad marsh u done with the essay

[glad marsh]

Jugg change:
Miner change:
Meric change: just make them heal 20hp and buff bubble
Zarek change: zarek is garbage, give him abilities instead of pop buff
Thera: buff thera, not pop
Marrowkai: buff kai, not pop
sickle:
2v2 changes:
brilliance:
mana burst:
summoning staff:
kytchu:
archis: not enough

[raw aspen]

GUYS ADD GRIFFON THE GREAT AS SPELL LOOL !!! xd 🤣 🤣 😿

[glad marsh]

xiphos:

[white phoenix]

Why on staff?

[glad marsh]

+1 damage to deds

👎

[white phoenix]

Why?

[glad marsh]

1 ded per 50 crystal on a spell better

[white phoenix]

It still does that

But now gives +1 damage to deads

[glad marsh]

and also, +1 damage to deds seems like a lazy idea

just simply buffing

I hate simple buffs

[white phoenix]

It's like RoR but offensive

And a good amount of enchantments have a simple stat buff along with the special gimmick

Upgrades too

Secret tunnel, mining engineer, miner upgrade

[glad marsh]

they are economy cards

secret tunnel may not be one, but it is what it is

[raw aspen]

guys summoning staf x99999 kai rider x99999 boss dead stick war legacy

mod meny

[glad marsh]

[raw aspen]

ur only somewhat decent idea

[thorny canopy]

I don't want to upset you, but multiplayer strategy games usually do. Only "simple buffs" . And I love it

[white phoenix]

Mining engineer isn't an economy card

[glad marsh]

it doesn't function like it

but it is

[white phoenix]

Secret tunnel and both miners exclusive upgrades give stat buffs to miners

Miner upgrade HP increase is understandable

Because in SE, miner hustle upgrade made miners tankier

[raw aspen]

miner upgrade should reduce miner pop

1 pop maxed out

[glad marsh]

[raw aspen]

shut up brpo

it needs an extra change

[white phoenix]

The only useful thing about miner upgrade and it's not even real

[thorny canopy]

Not such a bad idea, 2 pop instead of 3 pop on the third level of the miner's upgrade

[white phoenix]

And miners should have less pop without the need of anything

[white phoenix]

?

[raw aspen]

and decreased training time (no research needed)

[glad marsh]

y'all are bullying eminers

[thorny canopy]

Why is that?

[white phoenix]

What?

[hallow axle]

2v2 revamp look shit-

no cap

it bad

[glad marsh]

frfr

[hallow axle]

ss buff just absolutely horrible

haste and rage being affect to teamate

just make rush

ever and ever better than ever

cuz smh

[raw aspen]

maybe miner upgrade maxed out = miner rush 🗿

[hallow axle]

50% ss and the double haste

just damn it all

[white phoenix]

Isn't co-op meant to be cooperative?

[hallow axle]

that just make 2v2 meta

[white phoenix]

It's not even that cooperative

[hallow axle]

is rush

like smh

no1 want to play 2v2 with only rush deck

[white phoenix]

???

[hallow axle]

like everyone gonna bring haste rage staff

[raw aspen]

tell that to @versed lotus raging at teammates

[hallow axle]

cuz like smh 4 dead yeah that very balance

and the double haste

[glad marsh]

these coop and 2v2 changes wont even do much

[hallow axle]

also remind u stack ss is so uncessary

50% stack

[glad marsh]

since most players are couch potatoes

[hallow axle]

is crazy

[white phoenix]

He's mad because double Tesla, and I removed double Tesla

[hallow axle]

duel queue better than ever

tesla coil can basically

[white phoenix]

???

[hallow axle]

jusy fuck- itself

[white phoenix]

Bro what you saying

[hallow axle]

add global cooldown

done

ss buff

look up bud

[glad marsh]

💀

[hallow axle]

ss 2v2 buff

[raw aspen]

ss = summoning staff

[hallow axle]

is ridiculous

staff

ss is savage smithy

[white phoenix]

That's only for 2v2

[versed lotus]

I WANT TO COMMIT MASS GENOCIDE

[hallow axle]

yeah kill 2v2 meta

[versed lotus]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-titans-rumbling-rumbling-aot-titans-in-water-eren-rumbling-gif-25312555

[white phoenix]

The one part of it is already in the actual game

[hallow axle]

honestly just dont do haste and rage buff

and ss stack

cuz it such a bad idea

it bring bomber to the shrine of meta

[glad marsh]

these 2v2 changes basically gives more free slots

[hallow axle]

like the highest rank possible

[white phoenix]

They don't stack, you can't get 50 gold from one enemy

[hallow axle]

double haste ah yes I can speedrun e.giant in no time

[raw aspen]

egiant start gonna go crazy

[hallow axle]

2v2 changes:
Miner hustle and rage (and any future temporary buff spells) affect your teammate too
Teammate will gain hold from the other players smithy even if they don't have smithy in their deck (if both sides have smithy, then they gain 30g and 30% instead of stacking and both players gaining 50g and 50%)
Tesla coil has a shared cooldown (so no more double Tesla preventing the tower from being capped as long as the tower players have enough mana for Tesla coils)
Max pop to 80-85
Added new feature exclusive to 2v2 and 2vAI, resource transfer:
You can give your teammate resources or request for resources
Max limit per transfer is 2000g or 1000m
Can only transfer once every 1 minute
Feature is blocked until 1:30 mark

[raw aspen]

surge is temp buff too

dont think it would be that good

[hallow axle]

(if both sides have smithy, then they gain 30g and 30% instead of stacking and both players gaining 50g and 50%)

explain

wtf is this

[raw aspen]

bro burned the kitchen

[hallow axle]

make no sense

u explain the ss stack buff

in the 1st sentence

[white phoenix]

If smithy stacked, it would be 50g or 50% gold refund

[hallow axle]

then the second u explain it again with a different stat

[raw aspen]

LMAO

cant wait to request resources from my teammate at the start

and get early egiant with double hustle

[hallow axle]

also bomber

bomber they the biggest problem

50% smithy make bomber dirt cheap

[white phoenix]

"feature blocked until 1:30"

[white phoenix]

It's 30%, not 50%, I literally wrote it in there

[hallow axle]

.

[raw aspen]

wait ss = salv smithy not summoning staff

[hallow axle]

smh

dude ur confused

burn ur kitchen

🔥

[raw aspen]

i thought if someone would staff there would be 2 deads

[hallow axle]

reason why this suggestion is bad bc

the 2v2

is so unnecessary

like great u gonna deal with vault and ss

also if ure saying that ss stack only 30%

[white phoenix]

"(if both sides have smithy, then they gain 30g and 30% instead of stacking and both players gaining 50g and 50%)"

[hallow axle]

then defeat the purpose of stacking when 25% and 25 g

[hallow axle]

lmao

that what u meant

[white phoenix]

Did you not read this part?

[hallow axle]

u should have writen it like this

[raw aspen]

GUYS NEW IDEA IF UR TEAMMATE GETS A UNIT OUT U GET THE SAME ONE OUT TOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[raw aspen]

@white phoenix be like

[hallow axle]

if both side have ss they gain 30g and 30%
and if both teamate have ss they gain 50% and 50g

that make so much more sense

bro

[white phoenix]

???

That's not what I meant

That's literally the opposite of what I meant

[hallow axle]

🤯

[deft ermine]

....

The brillance change

[white phoenix]

?

[deft ermine]

You did play during the brillance meta, right?

[white phoenix]

The what meta?

[deft ermine]

Brillance meta?

[white phoenix]

However I do remember how op brilliance was

[deft ermine]

Right?

[deft ermine]

Yeah, that time

It was strong not because of refunds back then, but rather the fact of how easy it was to get all the tier 1 tower spawns upgrading

And tunnel

The refund only helped with getting tier 2 spawns

[white phoenix]

I'm pretty sure it made upgrades pretty much free

[deft ermine]

.... Wait.... What time were you playing at?

[white phoenix]

I remember the one balance change when all upgrades got a gold cost and brilliance used to just completely remove upgrades mana cost but still gave the mana cost refund

[deft ermine]

Did you play during this:#official-news message

[white phoenix]

I don't remember

[deft ermine]

Bruh

[white phoenix]

But I know that I wasn't in the server when I started playing

One thing I remember is that I played when juggs cost was still 450g 50m, damage was 20 and DPS was 15

[deft ermine]

Okay

So you played during the dead spam to get tower crap?

[glad marsh]

my boi got nerfed badly

[white phoenix]

I didn't play 1v1 during that time

[deft ermine]

As he should

[white phoenix]

But I remember it was when deads dealt 1-2 damage to blocking spears

[deft ermine]

ANYWAYS: It was a big problem back then because you would get all tier 1 tower spawns, then get refunded to get tier 2 spawns.

You brought it back but without the tier 2 stuff

So:

Just because of that one change

You get a

[white phoenix]

I severely nerfed the sht out of it

How is it OP?

[glad marsh]

Is there a more negative reaction to maybe?

maybe-no

[deft ermine]

Lookly here @white phoenix

[white phoenix]

Spiriton spawn isn't as terrifying and annoying as it used to be

I hate how 60% of my army used to be distracted by a single fcking tower spawn spearton that cared only about my statue

[deft ermine]

Mid ladder players say otherwise

[white phoenix]

It's still terrifying, but not as bad as before

Those goddamn free speartons which take less resources to research

Than actual speartons

[deft ermine]

So now you see why I give a

It is not as strong as before

[white phoenix]

Also that's a problem with tower spawns being OP

[deft ermine]

But still is strong

[deft ermine]

Not dead spawn, just spirtions to midladder

[white phoenix]

Not really OP, but severely unbalanced

[white phoenix]

Dead spawn is also OP, but just making it cost the same as current spiriton spawn would make it more balanced

Spiriton spawn, however, needs an entire rework

[glad marsh]

take the russian flag reaction as in-between maybe and no

Jugg is fine

2v2 changes is nah

for the pop changes (excluding xiphos and miner) why dont you just buff or rework them instead of a pop buff

archis buff wasn't enough

mana burst is a 👎

we still don't have chaos spellcasters, but mana burst buffing 2 magic units and suddenly buffing a chaos general is so odd

[white phoenix]

I've already made enough posts on buffing and/or reworking them

[white phoenix]

It's called mana burst, not order burst, and marrowkai is a spellcaster too

[glad marsh]

well, keep doing that

[glad marsh]

it mostly focuses on order

there are lots of tag type of posts that gave mana burst order tag

[white phoenix]

But why? It's called mana burst, so it should focus on magic units, right?

[glad marsh]

it buffs order cooldown and only affects order spellcasters so it is what it is

has anyone tried mana burst + zarek? is it op?

nvm

I thought zarek also reduces order ability cooldown 💀

[white phoenix]

What about future spellcasters and marrowkai?

Especially elementals

[glad marsh]

probably

but rn CJ made it so that it's meant for order

[white phoenix]

Elemental empire (the spellcaster empire) watching as the order empire which has only 2 spellcasters get an ability cooldown enchantment that only affects the order empire:

[glad marsh]

are you saying that mana burst should affect the WHOLE elem empire?

[white phoenix]

Every spellcaster

[reef schooner]

They are not supposed to be equal

lol

The actual stick war lore proves kytchu better than Archis

[short current]

Maybe because ca and jug pop arent good changes in my opinion

[reef schooner]

Ca is a unit

[deft ermine]

Tp to top

[reef schooner]

Make make it like 1 pop

since they not on the battlefield

[deft ermine]

And I am going to advertise my post here

https://discord.com/channels/555057405080371210/1214013018103480361

[reef schooner]

plus when u garrison u get more ca

More ca = more pop

[short current]

No no i think its yhe pop required to avtivate a castle archer

@gian

@reef schooner

[deft ermine]

It is

[glad marsh]

Did you know that 85% of sw3 players sent a nuke at your house

Order Empire obviously has plot armor, like... how could you not know that

Archis trained his archidons how to moonwalk

he also started a whole civilization from scratch

immunity to poison and boyer's traps

traps require IQ