Buff Hover Lab | Beyond All Reason | BAR | Page 1

chrome mason · 2024-06-05T18:24:07.662Z

**Why are hovers niche:** - For securing islands, com trans beats them timing wise and combat wise. - For securing large islands, com trans + bot lab is better than hoverlab - On the sea, frigates absolutely wreck medium hovers, no contest. - Bots has cool but very nasty trick of rezzing your light hovers and sending them back to your team, requiring no lab and metal cost. - AA hover costs too much E for not being very strong (same dps as 2 platy's / jags, more overkill) - 2 AA hover can still be easily overwhelmed with 8-10 shruikens and focus fire. Overall, there is no safe place for hovers other than on bodies of water that don't warrant boats. The maps we see hovers on often have to have movement speed buffs for hovers and nerfs for other units. IMO this is because the lab doesn't have enough utility after light hovers. **Direct changes** - Reduce the E cost of hoverlab, to allow for faster starts and more viability on non-wind maps - Reduce the E cost of the hover aa and give it ~50% emp resist again shruiken - If medium hovers are still weak, could increase the speed of medium hovers by 2. While medium hovers are still expensive, this makes them more of a premium unit and useful, and makes building defense reactively a little harder. Metal heavy raiding units need to be balanced around dropping large amounts of metal. **Indirect changes:** - Remove t1 com trans (or put it on a significantly more resource and BP expensive t1.5 trans). - This will allow islands to be fought with hovers and unit drops. A t1.5 com drop comes later and comes at the price of several fighters. - This buffs medium hovers and especially the halberd. Halberd drops become a real strategy. - Rework sea and nerf the t1 frigate's range and speed - This gives more space for light hovers, and makes it so medium hovers can fight in the short term against ships (370 range vs new 400 range on frigates). This makes missile hovers less vulnerable and halberds a bit more useful

chrome mason Jun 5, 2024, 6:24 PM

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Why are hovers niche:

For securing islands, com trans beats them timing wise and combat wise.
For securing large islands, com trans + bot lab is better than hoverlab
On the sea, frigates absolutely wreck medium hovers, no contest.
Bots has cool but very nasty trick of rezzing your light hovers and sending them back to your team, requiring no lab and metal cost.
AA hover costs too much E for not being very strong (same dps as 2 platy's / jags, more overkill)
2 AA hover can still be easily overwhelmed with 8-10 shruikens and focus fire.

Overall, there is no safe place for hovers other than on bodies of water that don't warrant boats. The maps we see hovers on often have to have movement speed buffs for hovers and nerfs for other units. IMO this is because the lab doesn't have enough utility after light hovers.

Direct changes

Reduce the E cost of hoverlab, to allow for faster starts and more viability on non-wind maps
Reduce the E cost of the hover aa and give it ~50% emp resist again shruiken
If medium hovers are still weak, could increase the speed of medium hovers by 2. While medium hovers are still expensive, this makes them more of a premium unit and useful, and makes building defense reactively a little harder. Metal heavy raiding units need to be balanced around dropping large amounts of metal.

Indirect changes:

Remove t1 com trans (or put it on a significantly more resource and BP expensive t1.5 trans).
- This will allow islands to be fought with hovers and unit drops. A t1.5 com drop comes later and comes at the price of several fighters.
- This buffs medium hovers and especially the halberd. Halberd drops become a real strategy.
Rework sea and nerf the t1 frigate's range and speed
- This gives more space for light hovers, and makes it so medium hovers can fight in the short term against ships (370 range vs new 400 range on frigates). This makes missile hovers less vulnerable and halberds a bit more useful

low vigil Jun 5, 2024, 9:15 PM

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i'm down with lowering the unecessary hovers price and buffing some of them but removing com tran is a bit overkill

chrome mason Jun 5, 2024, 9:22 PM

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well it's not by far the only reason to remove/increase cost of com trans but its related

low vigil Jun 5, 2024, 9:22 PM

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yeah honestly they need to do a trans rework

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only use for trans is to transport com or use the abductors as paralyzer but stilettos are alr better

chrome mason Jun 5, 2024, 9:29 PM

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transing units is quite powerful

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can trans con turrets and cons

spiral hearth Jun 7, 2024, 5:11 PM

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I SUPPORT EXPANDED HOVERCRAFT VIABILITY

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🥹

iron trellis Jun 7, 2024, 5:25 PM

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i think we just need swamp maps and more common usage of swamp like terrain where boats cant be used

calm bolt Jun 7, 2024, 5:28 PM

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yea, if there were maps that rewarded land/sea play we would see more hovers. the price you pay is cause you are getting the only units in the game that can fire on and traverse land and water. reworking sea to make a niche unit class less niche doesn't seem ideal to me.

iron trellis Jun 7, 2024, 5:32 PM

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maybe the game could have muddy and overgrown swamp water that debuffs boats a lot and isnt traversable for land units even when its shallow

calm bolt Jun 7, 2024, 5:38 PM

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ok context is crucial and totally helps your case

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post the e cost here! 3k lab cost is fucking crazy. i fully support lowering the labs e-cost so you can make it and have your faster starts and then transition out without it being a gross penalty. air/bot/vehicles are like 1350,1200, and 1800. why is the air lab less e than the vehicle lab or the hover lab? madness!!!

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increasing the e-cost of air lab would also slow that start and transport a little. def would like to see air lab and hover lab e costs switched

chrome mason Jun 7, 2024, 5:45 PM

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bp cost is quite large too

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it takes a while to make and relcaim

calm bolt Jun 7, 2024, 5:49 PM

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no me gusta

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i can get behind team make the lab cost less so it can be used as a transitional lab

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and can get some starts on certain maps

iron trellis Jun 7, 2024, 6:53 PM

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yeah

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i dont think the hover units need drastic changes tho

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hover AA gets used on mass in the lategame wich is one of the reasons why it is the way it is

chrome mason Jun 7, 2024, 6:59 PM

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it sucks
i would just drop or proxy flak truck lab

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hover aa is flexible and easier i give you that

iron trellis Jun 7, 2024, 6:59 PM

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hover aa often gets used as spam for navy invasion

chrome mason Jun 7, 2024, 7:00 PM

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it's flexibly shit
spam is the light hover

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spam? it's not for spam it's just for aa no?

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hover aa is a fast unit that can travel all terrains, so on the plus side with good control it should never die. that's why it's not a terrible unit

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that's why i only suggested giving it emp resist so it doesn't get wrecked by shuri's and lower e cost so it doesn't cost like a fricking t2 unit

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it is almost cheaper aa per energy cost to build 2 plat (5400 e), then 1 bird eater (4700 e)

iron trellis Jun 7, 2024, 9:01 PM

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you can drive mass amounts of hover aa from the sea side under the enemy airscreen and weaken it

#Buff Hover Lab