Something approximating ~ reduce damage by 200, leave a puddle of lava for 2 seconds. To give Core a decent vehicle option for dealing with tick/pawn spam. Solidify its "anti-t1" role.
#Give Czar a lingering aoe burn effect.
verbal cobalt
I think the core team would be reluctant to use the damage area script on current units due to its state, although a large part of the issue comes from how freely it is used by the legion faction
half agate
There is work being done on a cor vehicle anti spam option in #1100737207658098768 called the salamander, which is a rework of the alligator to give it a laser weapon with a decently high fire rate
From testing people are saying that it's pretty effective as anti spam when a few are mixed into t2 armies
turbid depot
Napalm also pushes into the current design space of legion arguably even more than salamander
lone moss
I don't know much about legion. Core seemed a bit fire themed already, with friends and maws.
If salamander pans out, may be redundant, but could be an idea for future legion units or w/e
turbid depot
legion is...a lot more firey than cor. basically everything that's not a gatling gun is either heat lasers or napalm
while core has ~5 fire units
lone moss
Compared to Arm's 0, core is fiery 😛
But also Czar just in general seems like it's at an odd spot
Too slow and expensive to deal with t1 units. Too slow and short range to deal with T2 units
turbid depot
tzar is moderately better off with salamander clearing spam, helping reduce its friendly-firing tendencies
lone moss
By the time you get enough czars to be scary, it's already time for t3
turbid depot
1 tzar as your first unit after t2 lab is one of the best things you can do as cor vehs
takes a bit to get out, but absolutely destroys enemy's residual t1 or freshly-made anti-t1, particularly since you can dedicate a decent amount of apm to microing that 1 tzar in early t2
half agate
i did the same with a fatboy once and it literally won the game
lone moss
Id have to see that situationally
half agate
my only game playing arm
turbid depot
as time passes it certainly becomes a lot more questionable as a choice, but sala does help it with falling off less
lone moss
I feel like 5 quakes would do just as well or better in most cases
half agate
tzar vs quakers: tzar has the HP and burst damage needed to quickly punch a hole through statics to allow a massive breakthrough while a few quakers would need longer and give the enemy team time to react. In addition, quakers are worse at straight up pushing than a tzar
lone moss
Just as much combined dps, longer ranger, faster movement, just can't shoot backwards
half agate
tzar's DpS is more focused, has a larger AoE, and hits sooner
turbid depot
tzar also doesn't have to worry about enemy splash damage, and continues contributing its full dps until it runs out of hp (before factoring in that it can be repaired from 1 hp) while quakes quickly lose damage as individual ones get picked off, and if something gets close to them, they're all hitting 4 other quakes with their own splash
lone moss
You can also start getting quakes into combat sooner
You'd already have 3 quakes hitting you before your czar leaves the factory
turbid depot
quakes as your first thing out of the lab absolutely isn't a bad play, but 1 rushed tzar, particularly if you're ahead in lane and want to snowball your advantage, is something i'd strongly recommend trying
lone moss
I'll give it a try, but I'm still skeptical. xD
Seems like you can push a third of the way into enemy territory before they get kited to hell by mortar bots or w/e, then you're just leaving an expensive wreckage for them
half agate
mortar bots don't deal meaningful damage fast enough
but it needs to be done when you are ahead on t2
by a few minutes at the least
lone moss
Would be an interesting test, how far can a czar get while being attacked by 4-5 Sheldons
Sniper bots fk czars hard too :/
Or czar vs 5-6 quakes
half agate
it won't be a solo tzar, the other frontliners should be rushing through the hole you make
make sure to coordinate it with your team, even just a simple "I am pushing with this tzar NOW" ping will do it
you just need to bring attention to the hole
lone moss
Won't be solo quakers either
Or just more quakers
Instead of a hole, it's more like an imprint imo
Quakers kite back as your czar pushes, once czar is dead the quakers go back forward
But I'm a fan of a flexible unit line instead of a static D line
It's just so slow and short range that you rarely ever have to directly engage it
half agate
the point is to get it out before the enemy has access to quakers, hence why you need to have a lead
lone moss
If you have that much of a lead already, there are more effective ways to poop on enemy
turbid depot
Not sure how you manage to kite anything faster than a sumo with quakers given how long they take to turn around and aim their cannons
lone moss
Quakers are like 20% faster than czars. You can also split them away from the direction the czar is going
turbid depot
but they have to slowly turn around to actually return fire, then turn around again to resume their retreat
lone moss
Use circular movements
But ya quakers aren't ideal kiters
Still possible tho
Not quite circular movements, but you can micro them so they do kite a little better, keep them moving
If the czar isnt dead yet, all it's escorts will be
Then it's just a sitting duck
The czar itself isn't even extraordinarily tanky. Tigers more hp effective for cost
lone moss
Do 3 tigers beat a czar? Assuming they aren't balled up
weak pollen
Tzar range and AOE just annihilates T1 and early T2 stuff.
Frankly, the biggest weakness of an early Tzar rush is getting Dgunned
And 60 HP/sec heal from a 200 BP rez bot is nothing to sneeze at either
lone moss
For cost of czar + bot factory + rezbot I could just have like 7-8 quakers tho
weak pollen
More you can have existing cons+commander healing it, as it obliterates stuff
lone moss
Anything short of the commander is dying to quakers
weak pollen
quakers turned around to run from the Tzar are not killing anything
Sheldons could still kite, but they just kinda tickle the Tzar
lone moss
No hurry to turn and run away
Czar slow af lol
And quakers have like 300 range on them
A few volleys before the quakers have to consider turning tail, by then your rezbot are prolly dead
Getting value out of a czar seems to depend on your opponent messing up and running a ball of units into it
Or just being so far ahead that it's a moot point
half agate
not like quakers are that much faster, especially considering that they will have to turn to retreat and turn to shoot back
54 speed vs 41 speed
half agate
again, you need to consider that quakers have pretty bad turn speed and radius
and then you need to factor in acceleration and deceleration as well
lone moss
Can be mitigated by round movements to keep them moving and shooting
half agate
once the tzar gets close enough that the quakers have to kite, you're barely getting 1 or 2 shots every like 30 seconds
lone moss
And that's just for straight backwards kiting
They can kite to the side, out of the Czar's path
Or split
turbid depot
round movements=less effective movespeed away from pursuer
half agate
that also means nothing blocking the tzar from driving into your base
it's also not a naked tzar, there are other units with it (from your allies hopefully)
lone moss
Then it's not just naked quakers either, or just more quakers
weak pollen
Ya, just tried it, the 180 degree firing arc on the quakers really limits their ability to fire at a tzar
half agate
my dude, what part of "being ahead" don't you get, the opponent isn't going to have an equivalent cost in quakers because you're ahead
we're not putting a tzar up against quakers, we're putting both up against a t1 defense
lone moss
And at that point of being ahead, it's a moot point
There are better ways to exploit the lead
like 5 quakers, lol
Which will poop on their t1 army and defenses just as well or better than a czar
lone moss
Better because faster/further force exertion
If "being ahead" is a required condition for a unit to be useful, then it's probably not a useful unit
lone moss
Played around with legion a bit. The napalm eff is kinda obnoxious. and lol the mini czar napalm tank
napalm is a little too much for czar imo. im thinking just enough aoe to catch a couple extra scouts or infantry, not lingering around long enough to hinder your push
Or maybe instead it leaves some "radiation fallout", i.e. juno effect for a couple seconds
wouldn't help against infantry spam though ;/
lone moss
Keep damage the same, add 1.5sec juno effect at impact site?
doesn't infringe on themes
half agate
The thing about napalm currently is that (i think) it stacks, so have enough napalm in one place and that just kills anything passing through there
lone moss
It seems to. Was hard to tell because it wouldn't show me the damage numbers, had to check unit health (which was set to x10 for test and kept regening, lol). Would have to do a more thorough test.