#⭐ I HATE Ethyrial

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wide jay
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Tell us what is making you REALLY MAD about Ethyrial....

so we can fix it!

pepe-the-frog-angry.gif
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in honor of @upper sequoia

brisk cloud
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• i hate that backpack bug

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• i hate that we not able to trade mounts

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• i hate to trade hand to hand and shout in global about selling items, or making a topic in discord

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• i hate that ppl dm me all the single day and after that i have to scroll each time i want to check global or guild. Cause i cant close any dm or it will be bugged and i have to relogin

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• i hate a yOu aLrEadY lOgGeD iN bug when i have to relaunch game ~5 times

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• i hate that tons of my inventory slots are filled in with potions, elixirs, mount, tools, money, relics, and some other qol items, and even with best backpack and bags in game i barely have inventory space

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• i hate that we have such a small bank and around a half of space just goes to materials, essences, gems

severe robin
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I can't get past the character models. Every time I try to log in, I stop playing it. It saddens me that I see these cool weapons and armor showcased with the awful character models that break the immersion.

slim monolith
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Okay you asked for it there is nothing worth me complaining about more then what PVP could become every announcement I check for changes and I know there have been posts about it but since we were asked until that is changed I will just keep checking back in.

wide jay
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⭐ I HATE Ethyrial

severe robin
brisk cloud
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• i hate that 35 -> 40 enchanting worth that much money, its ridiculus and insane amount of money

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• i hate that autoloot option is not in game

ornate kindle
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I hate how empty the world outside the solitary isles feels.

brisk cloud
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• i hate that there is so much essences but only a few good one and everyone using them

grand wagon
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I hate the memory leak

wide jay
brisk cloud
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• i hate that dlp bow have attack speed % instead of damage %, while attack speed for bow users actually decrease class performance

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• i hate that we cant scroll in talents section

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• i hate that we cant use leyline stone from skillbar

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• i hate to lvlup fishing

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• i hate to lvlup cooking without tasks

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• i hate monster hunting skill, dont even know why its exists

wide jay
wide jay
brisk cloud
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#general message

brisk cloud
wide jay
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lunarion + mammoth tradeable via heart exchange as well

brisk cloud
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i dont really like to estimate, but 25k kills for lunarion mount looks a bit too much
and 250 for mammy

dim patio
ornate kindle
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Having more players in the world would certainly make it feel more full.

dim patio
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In terms of content that you guys would like added, is there a christmas list of things you'd want? Right now, the focus for me at least is to get the Key system into it's prototype phase so we can test balance and stuff. This will help smooth out the 30-40 experience as it will provide an alternative leveling path. Other things I can work on:

  1. World design
  2. Quest design
  3. More rare mobs (like Hypnolord, Balemother, etc)
  4. More itemization in the game (smooth out gaps)
  5. UI Design
  6. Ability design/visual improvements
grand wagon
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I think pvp arena matchmaking ,you can get certain currency like bloodcoins and buy certain gear or goodies like in wow

dim patio
brisk cloud
dim patio
glass gazelle
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  1. I hate that there is a limited amount of quests
  2. I hate the 30+ grind (same old thing day-in, day-out)
  3. I hate the armor/weapon crafting system (Disciplines with reqs but not the right armor or weapon available to be made)
  4. I hate how the game RNG hates me (Took forever to get Ritualist boots [then, saw 8pairs drop in next runs], Dole Dex chest [See above], blue rat mount [stopped counting attempts], my list goes on and on...
    Did I do something to get tagged 'unlucky' in game?!
    [Edit] Hate how I cannot change my IG name, too.
grand wagon
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I like how the cobalt tower pink grass and trees how that look is compared to all of Irumesa. Maybe doing certain stuff like that more around Irumesa would give it more life.

dim patio
brisk cloud
# dim patio keys are horizontal progression! But what are some other examples you'd like

more items that able to merge
there is specific element damage resistance rings, would be nice to collect them all and merge
ability to merge capes
unique bags for Bag slot
special bags for Special Bag slot
saddle i mention for mount #1371842867739234334 message

the current best one examples would be Jasc ring and eternal tools for me

pretty much how itemization for accessories in terraria works
i know, its a different game, and maybe that mechanic not fits here, just throwing ideas

dim patio
dim patio
plain geode
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i hate sternbrands new dialog. bring back the angry old man

brisk cloud
glass gazelle
plain geode
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i also hate that nobody has figured out what to do after making him grow wings 😡

dim patio
dim patio
plain geode
dim patio
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Yeah could be dev time as well lol

dim patio
grand wagon
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will keys be a group or solo content thing?

dim patio
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Mainly solo

glass gazelle
dim patio
dim patio
plain geode
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this is the longest one apparently

glass gazelle
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In every city there are a couple NPCs that will want an item or for you to gather a non-craftable/player useable item from a mob or ground giving xp or an item. That leads to exploration of an area. Opens more of the map [there are areas people don't go unless directed by something.] I find with disciplines in this game they fall behind skills due to players changing disciplines so often, and combat level getting ahead as well. Why not have discipline quests that give xp only to the discipline. It seems there was something of the sort in game before. We have plenty of combat xp awards and books for skills.

plain geode
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yea there used to be class specific quests that unlocked your starting skills/spells

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i hate that, that system is no longer in the game lol

glass gazelle
plain geode
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gets weird with being able to swap classes now

dim patio
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Suds does not like the relic system

plain geode
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is doable but the like history of ur character gets a bit odd lol

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yeah it locks out the system i loved 🥲

dim patio
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Some people love it, some people hate it

grand wagon
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I like it as sometimes its annoying having to find a tank or healer and you can just swap to one

glass gazelle
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I like the relic system.. but why not update part of the older mech to include discipline quests?

dim patio
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we intend to

grand wagon
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also will the key map loot be 40+?

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better armor than boc armor?

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or weapons than dlp

plain geode
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does anyone have a recent picture of DLT?

dim patio
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Keys will have BiS but also key-specific drops to optimize the keys themselves

grand wagon
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ok forsure

dim patio
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This is the only thing @red ocean is working on. The legendary weapons for all the keys. The legendary items for the keys will be a craftable item that gives you strong resistance to that element and some other powerful feat (haven't figured out exactly yet) that helps solve the adjacent key that has the weakness towards that element

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So the idea is that you "optimize" the fire map by getting the legendary fire weapon

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But then the Uber Rares are a general, super rare drop table that all the keys mobs can drop

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so the design is that as you optimize all the keys more, you have a better shot at the uber rares

glass gazelle
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Another one: I hate for cooking that meats are 1) not all working and 2) harder to get than fish. Would like if there was a chance to get meat while skinning or it just dropped more.

tepid plank
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so there is gonna be a legendary for each weapon type for each of the maps? thats like 50 legendaries, doesn't that make em feel not legendary?

plain geode
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d2 had 3 tiers of unique for 99% of items lol

dim patio
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just like DLP rewards

tepid plank
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yeah but that doesnt feel legenedary

brisk cloud
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so its like 15 weapons * how much elements?

dim patio
tepid plank
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the axe from BOC is only the axe, that feels legendary

brisk cloud
dim patio
brisk cloud
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to be honest i really dont like a way "rng bis"
I would prefer to work on bis items, like in GW2

tepid plank
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def think "legendary" tag should be on unique weapons, that are not replicated to other classes like the boc axe

dim patio
tepid plank
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so is the axe, i dont mind

plain geode
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to get a truely legendary item you need rng on the stats 😄

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people get sick of finding the same items over and over, but if you have a .001% chance of rolling max stats on an item, it boosts its worth a ton. and is sick to find when you want it, especially as an upgrade for the same item

glass gazelle
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Researching mobs - why does it seem to take less to advance higher levels than lower levels?

brisk cloud
glass gazelle
# brisk cloud iirc research lvl affect that speed

I have been running around killing lower levels mobs (as well as mid-high) and it seems to take more kills with lower levels mobs. It could be perception, but took way more Skel guards than Sup earth elementals

brisk cloud
glass gazelle
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by manual research

brisk cloud
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its a also a bit offtopic i think

faint hearth
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  • I hate that there's nothing to do at 30+ other than grind and chase dlp/boc
  • I hate the weird line on my screen when running across grass areas that causes half my screen to be blurred
  • I hate how 2/3 DLP boss skills are hard to see or have no cast associated with them
  • I hate that the best form of progression is spamming dungeons, and by extension, that OW isn't valued
  • I hate how boring fishing is
  • I hate how dead Irumesa's environment feels (no grass, everything is flat)
  • I hate how all the fun/good enchants are locked behind level 40 enchanting
  • I hate how quickly old content is useless unless you're mount/pet farming
  • I hate the -20% speed debuff on trading (makes no sense that you risk everything AND have a debuff when fighting back)
  • I hate that some classes lose their identity or are unviable in content like Mana bear/DLP (Infuser and Healers).
  • I hate how far behind my armor/magic skills are to my character level (due to healing, magic, infuser, idk)
  • I hate that there is very little horizontal progression within skills. The only change we really get is the talent at 30. There's no gear, trinkets, etc.
  • I hate how big the UI is, especially when crafting, banking, trading, npc shops.
  • i hate the chat window in its entirety
  • i hate that many npcs don't have consistent right click options
  • i hate that when I right-click interact with something my character wont move to it and perform the action
  • i hate that late game spots can only have a single person in them
brisk cloud
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I hate that there's nothing to do at 30+ other than grind and chase dlp/boc
I hate how boring fishing is
I hate how all the fun/good enchants are locked behind level 40 enchanting
I hate how quickly old content is useless unless you're mount/pet farming
I hate the -20% speed debuff on trading (makes no sense that you risk everything AND have a debuff when fighting back)
I hate that there is very little horizontal progression within skills. The only change we really get is the talent at 30. There's no gear, trinkets, etc.
this

I hate that some classes lose their identity or are unviable in content like Mana bear/DLP (Infuser and Healers).
ultra this
i never saw any mmo that just lazy block some unique and specific class skills, just cause it would be too easy to run specific content with that class

dim patio
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just imagine making pets taunt mamabear

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pet classes are the only viable class

brisk cloud
faint hearth
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i sympathize with it, but i still hate it.

I think DLP and manabear are both decent solo fights - it just sucks when you resonate with a class and there are intentional mechanics put in place that limit it.

dim patio
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i legit dont know the solution yet for that

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i wouldnt make solo bosses 😛

faint hearth
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other than a complete redesign of classes to fit the goal of how you envision combat, i'm not sure either. I definitely see your point, you don't want one class to dominate X content or invalidate the fight/mechanics. With a lot of the skills you're adding to mobs though it just seems like the class as it stands doesn't fit into EoY's vision.

brisk cloud
# dim patio i legit dont know the solution yet for that

i think none of the classes should loose their identity in any content, especially in the main one content that you unable to skip (dlp)
even if it would be easy for them

i mean, its already easier and better to run dlp as dps, compare to tank

dim patio
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like I could make it so that bosses deal mroe damage to pets

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but that's the same problem

brisk cloud
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i also think healing should works there

dim patio
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healing is tricky

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if healing is allowed, mechanics need to be juiced like 50%

faint hearth
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I wonder if reduce healing, like -80% would feel better than none. Give classes that do heal a small amount of their identity back? Might feel worse, idk.

brisk cloud
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or just make some hits apply debuff that decrease healing

dim patio
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just speaks to the same paradigm, right

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any manipulation across classes = bad

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bottom line, it's near impossible to scale to this type of way

brisk cloud
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tbh barely anyone will run dlp with a healer, if you even let them heal there
its just not worth to spend more time per kill with healer, if you just able to dodge with dps and kill faster
it just sounds fair for me when none of the classes have some skills blocked

dim patio
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basically the game will probably shape up with non-homogenization of classes

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there will be BiS loadouts and class combos for certain content

brisk cloud
dim patio
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right

faint hearth
dim patio
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i just know from experience, it's also not easy to balance for solo and group play, too

dim patio
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In terms of pet classes, just spitballing here: I wonder if we could have like a "loyalty" status effect that diminishes if the pet takes damage and naturally is regained over time. Certain % health loss could tick away the loyalty "meter." 0 loyalty prevents the pet from aggroing the boss.

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so if your pet takes a huge roar blast from manabear, it strips all the loyalty

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and you need to basically wait it out for it to go back up

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kinda like a overheating mechanic

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but it still puts a damper on pets classes

brisk cloud
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@faint hearth

faint hearth
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If the goal is to keep pet classes the same as they are now, that's not too bad. Once we get new pet ui and have more fine-tuned control of them it'd inject some skill mastery into the class by making them actually manage their summons actively.

dim patio
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are you saying you like or dont like the loyalty mechanic

tepid plank
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remove pet classes

dim patio
faint hearth
urban sorrel
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I do wish the Follow Player function on the map actually made the map follow the player, not just jump to you and then nothing.

Being able to see the name of places would be great. (Might be a setting for all I know, but the vanilla experience is just a blank map with question-marks for NPCs you've met; means a looot of alt-tabbing to the interactive map to figure out where stuff is / places are)

faint hearth
# dim patio in terms of progression spamming dungeons, is the alternative, in a perfect worl...

Partly a content issue. What's tough is just how good dungeons are. Every time I pulled someone new into LoE or Rift everyone of them said how crazy the exp was. OW feels like you're actively inting yourself unless you're skilling.

The push across the playerbase is to rush as fast as possible to 38 to farm DLP because the power jump is insane.

I will say one of the more fun OW grinds I've done recently was getting a few Giant's rings. Maybe because it's a chase item, actively gives new power, it had a few MH tasks there, idk. But that for me was one of the more enjoyable OW grinds.

glad cave
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I hate fishing and cooking. Just boring content

I hate that I can't move my UI anymore although it could be a me issue causing this.

I hate that I can't trade mounts. I have 2 azure lunarions but I can't sell or trade my spare.

I hate that I have to scroll my backpack.

I hate the lag caused when opening my bank or crafting blueprint menus.

I hate getting attacked through the terrain from vertical enemies.

I hate the layout of some towns, Erdivine specifically.

I love the game and it's loop though. Even through all the hates I'm still willing to log in and grind.

junior jolt
# dim patio I haven't played OSRS, but how does that game handle long grind times for levels...

The huge difference betwen OSRS's grind and Ethyrials grind is most of the grind on OSRS can be done as a second monitor game apart from a few skills. In OSRS you can level 90% of your skills by watching videos or playing another game while looking over ever 30 second-6 minutes. OSRS also offers better xp per hour for more interactions on mostly everything so you choose between alot of clicking and fast xp or barely any clicking and less xp.

In Ethyrial most the grinds are not just interactive but require full attention especially combat. Then you have refining skills that force afk times sometimes into the hours of afk to make a ton of bars. Ethyrials combat and OSRS combat don't really compare well, in OSRS you can have a protection prayer active and take no damage as long as you have prayer points and the combat is click to attack or have auto retaliate on and your character will attack back against aggressive monsters for you. In Ethyrial the hundred or maybe even thousands of hours it takes you to level your combat stats to desired levels requires your full attention which can cause burnout if everything starts feeling the same with nothing to look forward to but levels.

Another issue comparing OSRS to Ethyrial is almost all skilling in OSRS can be done with 0 combat required to the point people with 0 combat xp max all their non combat skills. In Ethyrial once you get up to t4 most of the places to gather resources require to participate in combat with on level or sometimes even a few levels higher than you monsters so skilling in Ethyrial isn't nearly as "relaxed" or "cozy".

dim patio
junior jolt
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If there 1 thing i'd bring over from OSRS it would have to be slayer or on Ethyrial monster hunter rewards. Unlocking a helmet that gives damage bonus to creatures on task that works for all combat styles, unlocking creatures you can't kill w/o unlocking that have unique drops, unlocking a chance at a "superior" monster spawning that gives a ton of xp and has its own unique drops and the ability to get "boss tasks" so you can use your helm to help kill bosses faster/easier. It makes the slowest skill in the game feel worthwhile to grind when you could get better combat xp per hour doing something else.

Monster Hunter is nice to give me an objective but the run time from task to task basically makes the xp book less of a reward and more of a "since your times being taken running heres some xp".

Also as a side note: IDK if it would even be possible but having optional level scaling for parties would be amazing. If your doing group content and 1 person is too high of level you get next to no xp. Having the ability to scale the party to a similar level would help a ton in the aspect that new players while leveling would get a real uncheesed experience and higher levels could get halfway decent xp from joining in.

craggy rune
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I hate how skinning and leatherworking to make medium armors are so much more time consuming compared to light armor and heavy armor

I also hate how if you chose medium armor for an int class you are pretty much forced to craft upgrades because the dungeons that have sets dont drop medium int gear

sterile oar
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I hate that i get stuck dead in a dungeon and the only solution is to close the game for a while and come back. If i were a new player and that happened to me i would never touch the game again

frail oasis
fierce locust
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I hate that no class that is released has a finished kit yet, and yet we have still been doing regular balance passes. Balancing with incomplete data is bad. Throw the over/under performers in a spreadsheet with compiled notes and make it publicly readable. So people can see which have been flagged as under or over performing, so they don't get attached to the mechanical performance. But also, if balancing is to be done, don't just bring EVERY class that is slightly over whatever metric down. Bring these underperformers up. Once every class is at a stable point following that, then do a blanket balancing pass that affects everyone mostly equally, to level it out across the board.

I hate that doing Mamabear and DLP both prevent magical healing, which makes even a struggle (because drastically lower damage compared to a DPS class) run with healer classes or, God forbid, Warden, is either not possible or 100% not worth it. I've been on an Ethy break for several reasons, so I'm not at DLP yet; but I have to assume that doing it with Warden or Cultist, etc; will go about as well as it does at Mamabear when at level. Gutting class mechanics to enable a solo boss is bad design. Either except that some classes will just be better or easier to grind these bosses with, or scrap the solo boss concept. Coming from someone who LOVES solo bossing.

I hate every single bug @brisk cloud listed. Especially the backpack scroll bug.

I hate that MH rewards are so lackluster.

I hate that most quests give basically zilch as a reward. Questing should be an activity that is as worth it to do as dungeons or MH. Do we need a quest writer? Is it more an implementation issue than a "producing the content/plot" issue?

I hate a lot of things about this game. But Rev summed most of my smaller/pettier points.

frail oasis
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I hate that I love dions point about class balance. The vision for 60 classes, when classes already feel incomplete seems folly.

brisk cloud
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• i hate a nerfs for good performing classes without a good buff for a gimped one

frail oasis
dim patio
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I agree with everyone's points here

frail oasis
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Re quest implementation and design. I had a voice chat with Ryan a couple months back where he basically said anything to do with lore and quest creation around it is in the too hard basket until he has somebody who will write the lore etc. So until such a time as somebody joins the team specifically to do that. I think it's just Morgan making the tasks, and then Chisme making the odd quest here and there that's related to the areas he is building.

I may be wrong on that now, but that was from the horses mouth as of a couple months back.

dim patio
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Lore, class balance, reward structure

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etc etc

frail oasis
dim patio
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Ryan has the vision for the game. We follow his lead

fierce locust
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Fuck I am an avid sci-fi fantasy writer, and experienced Dungeon Master, who has been desperately yearning for more Ethyrial lore to give me an anchor to the game world. I will write the lore. Give me everything you guys have and a month. I'll get a sample document over. Shit give me a test/template of requirements if you have one.

frail oasis
upper sequoia
dim patio
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What I will say, and I said earlier, is solo encounters are extremely extremely hard to balance for all classes

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not extremely hard. Impossible really

frail oasis
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Yeah. It's fundamentally a schism. If you want to make single player bosses, go make a single player game - that isn't meant to come across callous. It's just kinda... Self evident imo.

Anything else is like a "mini elite"

upper sequoia
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Lost Ark had a solution to the "no heals" in solo dungeon content. I forgot what it was called but it was like a tower you entered

dim patio
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yeah I remember that

frail oasis
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Lost Ark was good in that regard. But Lost Ark was still predicated on buying your way to stat checks

dim patio
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it's more about different play styles

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pet classes in solo environments, if unchecked will keep the boss taunted

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which means I can't design any mechanics that require interaction between the player and the boss

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besides zone-wide telegraphs

frail oasis
dim patio
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manabear "invalidates" certain class mechanics

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if a pet class can't taunt, it's kit is invalidated

frail oasis
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No. It means their kit hasn't got enough tools

dim patio
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the current kit, how it stands, is invalidated

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i can't speak to adding more tools, that's not my call

fierce locust
frail oasis
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More than one way to fill that bucket.

As for the concept that a boss shouldn't be tauntable. The fundamental premise of a raid boss is that the tank needs time to build threat and that dps need to manage their dps to not out threat the tank. Should the dps be to low, the healers will run out of mana and that's a wipe.

THE only time a boss should be tauntable, imo, is if it has threat drop mechanics baked in

dim patio
frail oasis
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Homogenise everything enough and it's fine

fierce locust
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Balancing them so each class has the same chance, same rate of success, however; totally impossible. You can't. Which is why I said, accept some classes will be better at them, some may invalidate mechanics; and embrace your players figuring out which ones perform the best.

frail oasis
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From the premise of design, solo bosses are fundamentally flawed unless you homogenise mechanics

frail oasis
dim patio
frail oasis
random umbra
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Though about how blizzard did mage tower? Design a fight for a couple of classes. Takes a lot more time but easier to balance?

upper sequoia
frail oasis
# upper sequoia I prefer this, either as a replacer or in addition to manual taunts. I don't thi...

It's a toughy. My initial thought is, well, then the game needs to readdress how it's going to function. Because that's the fundamental premise to raiding since forever.

If a tank can simply taunt back a boss, then your dps just blindly hit their rotation.

Imagine being able to taunt Vaelstraz for example.....

I've been racking my brains so hard. The only bosses I can think of that I've taunted in any game I've played, all had a threat drop mechanic whereby multiple tanks were required. And even still, many of them weren't tauntable. You just, make sure you aren't ahead of your tanks on threat.

The only way I see making bosses tauntable, viable, is if taunt is on a wickedly long cooldown. Otherwise you completely trivialise all content into "don't stand in the fire", as threat mechanics become obsolete

upper sequoia
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New World has both, and it was brain dead for dps/healers

frail oasis
upper sequoia
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How do you measure threat in an immersive way?

frail oasis
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Literally switch off brain and hit taunt whenever something goes wrong. It's simply bad design.

upper sequoia
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I dont think i've played a game without taunts

junior jolt
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New world is the only MMO i've ever tanked end game content in and it was super easy and intuitive. I guess it depends how hard you want your game to be, harder without taunts and it makes the content feel better to clear. Less hard with taunts but more people are willing to give it a go which leads to faster groups forming.

frail oasis
frail oasis
dim patio
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im specifically talking about pet classes that are solo

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how do you guys think we should handle that

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or just leave as is

frail oasis
# dim patio how do you guys think we should handle that

I think it depends on your guys philosophy behind solo content.

So im of full understanding.

Either pet taunt works and makes them premier solo boss killers.

Or pet taunt doesnt work and pet classes dont have enough expression to function otherwise.

Is that fair to summarise as such?

upper sequoia
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If pets do not taunt (solo bosses) then can they still generate threat? And it becomes hot-potato of juggling the boss

swift creek
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Pvp everywhere is such a drag. Its more of a grieving mechanic than anything else. The game would be just way more chill without pvp everywhere. Pvpers just kill people skilling and not really engage in actual player vs player, i dont think they actually fight each other.

frail oasis
# upper sequoia If pets do not taunt (solo bosses) then can they still generate threat? And it b...

They should still generate threat.

I see it like this. If you have a pet, it is either your primary or secondary. A ranger is usually the protagonist, and the pet a sidekick. Thus the ranger needs tools and abilities to function as the primary if the sidekick dies for whatever reason.

Something like an infuser, where the pets are the protagonist, should expect the pets to be able to tank a boss, and have the required tools to keep it alive as the secondary in the equation.

If ALL pet classes are predicated on the pet being the primary in a solo boss fights, and don't have the sufficient toolkit to mitigate the risk of their pet dying, then their class design needs to be addressed.

red ocean
red ocean
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Legendarys work as an upgrade tier of some sort, there is a higer tier but that was not discuss if its going to be implemented or how but most players know about it, i think its called mythic or smt like that. There is alot of things to think so most of the playerbase can enjoy what they want

ornate kindle
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It's a small thing, but i hate how you sometimes get multiples of the same quest because you share an ability with another class.

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Like how i got the greenhill grove quest twice.

plain geode
# dim patio im specifically talking about pet classes that are solo

i think the solution lies within the mechanics of specific bosses. you can have strong, solo, pet using classes. you just have to make sure there is variety among bosses and in some cases a solo pet class just sucks vs -this- boss because he hits multiple targets or -that- boss targets higher/lowest hp target etc. things that fundamentally undermine the advantage of having a strong pet.

you will never be able to perfectly balance all bosses againt the infuser and ranger and xyz other pets, just make sure those pets dont have equal ability to deal with all the bosses.

as usual the answer is make more content chop chop 😄

you could also add variance to individual bosses so that the fights dont play out exactly the same each time, making it harder to solve them

brisk cloud
#

• i hate that you always unmount when you trying to open the door

brisk cloud
#

• i hate that jc task require 5 garnet necklaces and 2 of each ring, instead of 1 each necklace and 2 each rings. So it will be total same amount of necklaces and rings to craft, and same amount of gems per task, but spread gems eventually, instead of sitting always in short with garnets

#

• i hate that i have 40lvl in almost every crafting skill (tailoring 39) but jc still 37

glass gazelle
#

I hate how Lvl 37 mobs drop lvl 20-25 items.

dim patio
#

we added that for "variety" but we can probably just drop it if you all hate it

glass gazelle
brisk cloud
# dim patio Another question here: Would you guys rather we just give money?

tbh i wish there was some unique trash loot, like guts, fur, tooth from beast monster type for example, or lockpicks, coin purse, spoons from bandit monster type with a different rarity, so for example we able to sell lunarion fur for 10s, but lunarion tooth for 1g, or for bandits it will be lockpicks for 10s and gold spoon for 1g, something like that
and monster hunter skill increase the chance to get rare trash loot

dim patio
glass gazelle
wide jay
#

technically the low level items are trash loot, based on what everyone says about them 🤣

dim patio
#

sometimes i just wanna

glass gazelle
upper sequoia
faint hearth
dim patio
dim patio
faint hearth
#

it also makes weight matter more too

#

if the trash loot has weight

#

I like that idea a lot though. It helps set random goals of "I'm going to grind X trash loot"

glass gazelle
#

side note: Chisme/Ryan exchange: I laughed - snarfed coffee - causing me to die and my wife thought I was dying IRL.

plain geode
#

pretty sure one of my doc.s has a trash item for each mob

#

#1129381130336993341 message

#

nothing in there is cannon or verified

dim patio
#

yeah that list has changed a lot

#

there was discussion about trash items, but I don't think it moved forward

tepid plank
#

these pants are criminal

image.png
plain geode
#

bring back the trash

dim patio
hollow ember
#

No Blightreaper yet

#

I hate Ethyrial

#

2027 is yikes far away, but at least you guys have a plan

#

We're gonna have a lot to play by 2027

#

Also would like to know at what point of the roadmap additional classes will be introduced

#

Very good idea for a thread too

dim patio
#

Adding more classes is not within scope right now

#

Yep, 2027 is quite far away, but there is a lot to do

#

And totally fine if you have other stuff to play!

frail oasis
dim patio
frail oasis
#

@dim patio while you are floating about.... I see in item ideas that weapons have been homogenised

#

I hate that too

dim patio
#

Attack speed?

frail oasis
#

ya

dim patio
#

Didnt really follow the thread but wasn’t axe better than all the rest bc of this?

frail oasis
#

It seems that way.

dim patio
#

Yeah I’m not sure about the specifics

frail oasis
#

yeah for sure. I still hate it haha 😄

#

Kinda sets a bit of a precedent that all weapons should be homogenised across the game

#

And it also doesn't take the avenue of, how do i make the other "different" to make it equal

wide jay
#

should we hold a vote and let people decide which classes to axe first? monkaS

imagine if enchanter got axed immediately, what would you play?

brisk cloud
#

what if everyone vote for paladin? :D

wide jay
frail oasis
wide jay
#

makes sense, it's good to have unique playstyles that can fill a niche for different players

frail oasis
#

Tis true. That niche can be devalued when people can change to whatever though

wide jay
#

perhaps - guarding a playstyle behind 100-200 hrs of leveling can also be limiting though

the value of a particular role in a group doesn't get devalued because people can swap though - you'd still need a tank/dps/ heal or utility heal

dim patio
#

We buffed cultist!!

magic sandal
#

you know what i hate.

the schism between Core and group content.
im all for group content. and im all for solo content.

but the longevity of the game falls off if the future progression after 40,45,50 is strictly group content.

the player base is already split between people wanting to do group content and solo. and once certain people reach certain levels that content falls off because of a lack of "team coherence" for parties. or even "player base"

theres also people who strictly play the game Solo such as regular toons, and ironmans and HCIM. where is the progression after 35 if they cant get any gear.

the game needs more solo content tbh not more group stuff theres enough group content right now to whet our appetite but we need more solo content to satiate our thirst

and thats what "i hate about ethyrial"

#

ill put it like this how is a HCIM supposed to get BoC gear

#

@wide jay @dim patio

#

this is coming from an old fart lvl 43 btw

dim patio
#

The goal is to have group and solo content

#

I don’t think there should be strictly HCIM without a group component. This only works in OSRS because of the prayer system

magic sandal
dim patio
#

Yeah then idk

#

I dont believe in HCIM

magic sandal
#

well its a mode in the game

frail oasis
magic sandal
#

so it needs sometype of content to adhere to the rest of the player base ie: solo content

#

or just nuke and scrap HCIM, iron man etc.

frail oasis
#

And if a group of dedicated testers are willing to test mechanics and classes and all of that shanazzle. Then the team organises them to do so with set objectives etc.

That can be done with solo play too mind, it's just that, it's hard to divorce ones current desires in game sometimes to what is best for the games fruition. Which is a succesful release

dim patio
#

We can create content for solo players but you get locked out of content

#

If you’re HCIM

#

Making a solo version of BoC for example isn’t in scope

magic sandal
frail oasis
#

Sorry to kinda butt in and talk around you guys.

The game just needs help more betty fetch her chickens - which will come

dim patio
#

Nono

magic sandal
#

you dont need to make a solo version of BoC

#

you just need to add more core grinding mats

#

🤷‍♀️

dim patio
#

BoC is group content. As a HCIM idk if it’s possible to complete

magic sandal
dim patio
#

So then you’re locked out of it, right?

magic sandal
#

your bosses have insta kill mechs

#

and no trinket or abilities blocks em

#

which has been nerfed

#

cause some did

#

🤷‍♀️

dim patio
#

We want specific group content and we want specific solo content

#

But one can do both and the other csnt

frail oasis
#

to a point.. hcim will always be a tier or two behind in group content

magic sandal
#

yeah and when the other cant its sets a huge bar.

frail oasis
#

of what tho? its an mmo

dim patio
#

The Ironman part is just extremely hard to implement

#

Because it’s a core game design move that really requires you to develop the game from that point on

#

And it was just injected

#

So I’m against it, but that’s that

magic sandal
#

it actually easy to implement. RS already has the fundamentals of it. and HCIM have acess to core stuff. not in the way ethy gates its.

frail oasis
magic sandal
#

it literally just more data entry. models, for each tier. your not going ham sammich

#

shit even reskin

#

its been don before for placeholders

dim patio
magic sandal
#

<.<

frail oasis
#

and so it just kinda, doesn't work

dim patio
#

I mean many of the mechanics are fine

#

Im talking just about the fact that HCIM can’t experience the same game as a non-HCIM

magic sandal
#

they cant

#

upto a point

dim patio
#

Right, and I want to make group only content

magic sandal
#

that same concept falls into other players tho

#

its not only HCIM doing solo

#

not everyone is grouping

dim patio
#

Im ok with people not having resources or choosing not to group

#

But if it’s impossible to do solo but we have a mode that forces solo, that’s bad

magic sandal
#

okay and how does that solve progression past, suspected point where you need groups to progress.

dim patio
#

You need to group

#

But the option is there

magic sandal
#

okay and how if im HCIM

dim patio
#

Thats what im saying

#

You can’t, and that’s bad

magic sandal
#

so there needs to be more solo content

#

not less restrictions on HCIM

dim patio
#

I think I’m maybe not explaining this right

#

It’s inherently bad design if a player who chooses a mode cannot experience part of the game

brisk cloud
#

• i hate HC / IM / HCIM
it shouldn't exists in current game state

dim patio
#

It’s not a matter of more content. What if I like the idea of BoC and want to run it? I can’t

#

Even if we made 100 solo dungeons

#

I want BoC

#

But I literally cannot ever do it because I chose a mode that blocks me from doing it

#

That feels bad, and in my opinion, bad game design

#

A player should have access to the entire game but have the agency on what content to pick

#

Does that make sense?

dim patio
magic sandal
# dim patio Does that make sense?

no that makes sense and i get it and get what ur saying, just saying HCIM aint like that but yeah if theres no content for it to progress and "experience" the game like everyone else does then it may not have a place. but ethy is trying to be like all other mmo's. which all have HCIM modes. and "content" for it.

#

and ethy has taken aspects from all major mmos.

dim patio
#

Yeah and it’s not my choice to really make. If Ryan wants this paradigm in the game, then that’s fine. But for me, I was thinking it was experimental

#

And I don’t like the idea of making all content HCIM-able

#

I want to make hard group encounters

#

Maps are designed to be solo/small groups though

magic sandal
dim patio
#

Sure, but doesn’t solve the root problem

magic sandal
dim patio
#

We will make solo-friendly content

magic sandal
#

thats a fact

#

"runs off like skeletor"

dim patio
#

I don’t think this is a problem, per se. We want to take advantage of the multiplayer part, but we understand people want to do solo things in a multiplayer world

frail oasis
#

Traditionally rep grinds have been very solo oriented. Is that something that could be considered to lean into?

dim patio
#

Yeah the technology for reputation exists in the editor. Just hasn’t been part of the short term plan for the game

frail oasis
#

For sure. Musing there really as an avenue for solo to have expression

dim patio
#

Morgan’s gathering quests are KINDA like rep grinds

#

Where you increase your affinity with a person

frail oasis
#

Rep gives a way to give equivalent, or, at least near enough to raid for solo players. They forego the ease of access by grouping, for the guaranteed route of grinding for hours

dim patio
#

But yeah rep grinds like wow would have to be formally injected

frail oasis
#

woops.. wrong thread. 🙂

fierce locust
dim patio
fierce locust
#

I would be sad. If that calculation resulted in homogenizing the weapon speed/damage though, that would explain what I was noticing. Ryan nerfed Spirit Strike a few weeks back because he thought it was overtuned, it like halved the damage, and I thought he ended up returning it to about the original strength. But then I logged in after like a week break and it was down an average 250 damage again...and it didn't really seem to matter which weapon I was using. It was noticeable before.

Anyway. I also hate homogenized weapon speeds if that is what happened lol. Having big slow weapons do more with ability damage makes them feel big and powerful. Lighter smaller weapons getting way more auto attacks feels nice in its own way, too.

plain geode
# magic sandal and they are and its fun but it more group than HCIM or solo

unless im mistaken, you want More content thats solo only, to match the current Amount of group content right? maybe there should just be an option to solo group dungeons and it modifies the experience through some sort of mutator/buff so that "group" content can be tackled by HCIM and get rewards unique to that challenge 🤷‍♂️

dim patio
#

We don't have a large enough team to make different dungeon mechanics for varying group sizes

dim patio
plain geode
#

there needs to be a balance so that big stick isnt OP just because the ratios favor it massively. some classes should be better of with DPS through attacks than just using skills off cd

dim patio
#

This is why skills like Heroic Strike existed

plain geode
#

i think the issue is those buff skills were homogenized where they were intended for dual wield

#

now the issue is homogonized weapons.. not surprising

fierce locust
# dim patio The issue with swing speed is that it creates a single item that is objectively ...

I mean. A single weapon TYPE. Warden wanted the biggest, slowest weapon because of how this math affected Spirit Strike damage. But in that class case, there was still a meaningful choice at the DLP level. Now I feel like that choice is largely meaningless. What skin do I want my stat stick to have?

The removal of this type of itemization that mattered at a functional level is one of the things that divided Retail WoW from Classic WoW. It was a downgrade.

Edit: the meaningful choice was, do I want the Wisdom staff to better boost group support/healing, or Axe for personal damage? The personal damage gain is going to be a good bit less now since they'll do the same damage with Spirit Strike, so why wouldn't I pick the stupid staff every time for the healing benefits?

plain geode
#

i dont see how you can have 20..60 etc classes if there is no distinction between dual or 2h etc

frail oasis
dim patio
dim patio
plain geode
#

the items should be an addition to the class, if all weapons are the same now all ur problems are locked into class balance.. and it would follow that the classes would be up for homogenization next

dim patio
#

like berserker

fierce locust
frail oasis
fierce locust
#

It felt like a Nature Smite and it felt good, but it probably wasn't balanced. But there are other ways to balance that without just removing the thing that differentiated the weapon styles.

frail oasis
#

for example. heroic strke deals 130% if 1h equip. 80% if 2h equip

dim patio
frail oasis
#

The other way, and I've spoken to ryan about this. It involves creating another layer of backend. But you put weapons, and classes on a damage table

fierce locust
dim patio
#

i dont think so

#

i'd have to look.

#

Pretty sure it's just weapon damage

plain geode
#

its possible i just dont think it was done

fierce locust
#

It would be the preferable solution to how it feels now, I think. Autos also felt nerfed.

frail oasis
#

@dim patio may I share something that is a "solution" in daoc, to what is being discussed?

plain geode
#

autos used to be 90% of ur damage on SI

#

but that made casters sad

dim patio
plain geode
#

for a few levels anyway

frail oasis
#

and that's the base table

#

So for example. if you wanted a berserker dealing less damage with 2h. You put all 2h weapons on berserkers table at a lower modifier

#

ie. a lower base table. then 1h apply at a higher table.

dim patio
#

idk if we want to apply base nerfs to a class-weapon combo

#

i get why DAoC did that, though

frail oasis
dim patio
#

it's not up to me, but the heroic strike paradigm makes sense

frail oasis
#

But, 40+ classes. Gotta be able to manage the output somehow

dim patio
#

yeah

glass gazelle
plain geode
#

you could make the base attack speed of each class have a unique modifier maybe ?

frail oasis
# dim patio yeah

I think the way they did it considering the scope of design is quite clever tbh. Shill aside. The underlying fabric gives room for expression amongst individual classes that share weapons

plain geode
#

leave all the weapon stuff as is, modify the attack speed/level of each class depending on its focus on weapons/magic etc

dim patio
#

how about increasing GCD based on weapon equipped? 😂

plain geode
#

thats fun police talk right there 😄

dim patio
#

technically that would solve the issue

plain geode
#

yeah but you are taking away what should be fun about a class

#

only to go even on some DPS number

frail oasis
plain geode
#

it should be rewarding for a mage to figure out an ideal weapon without it ruining their gcds

frail oasis
#

but it ugly

dim patio
#

it would be ability-specific

#

firebolt wouldnt affected

#

heavy strike would be affected

plain geode
#

it feels wrong to me lol but that might just be cos you have to look at every ability to impliment it

frail oasis
#

few different ways to do it eh

dim patio
#

all in all, I get the issue with making all attack speeds the same

plain geode
#

i feel like if you had Cultist- attackspeed per level .6
VS
Berserker as per level .9 etc etc you get to balance the class rather than the weapons

#

and you dont just forever push weapon specific speeds around

#

or balance them all and put all the emphasis of them into their unique/legendary part

dim patio
#

why would I use a spear versus a greatsword

plain geode
#

cos they ideally have diff stats

dim patio
#

do they? 😄

plain geode
#

or dmg type

#

or attack speed or range

dim patio
#

gotcha. You're assuming that the implicit value of the weapon is different

#

if that was the case, then normalizing the attack speed was fine, right?

plain geode
#

yeah i dont like the idea of all the weapons being the same

frail oasis
dim patio
frail oasis
#

scythes do 70% weapon damage but sweep and aoe

#

oh yeah i'm up in the clouds. its 2am

dim patio
#

lol

#

what im saying is that changing 0.9 damage scaling and normalizing attack speed is the same thing i think

frail oasis
#

but, that would be a reason as to why to use different weapons

plain geode
#

all cultists swing slower than berserkers etc

#

a cultist can still use a fast weapon, or zerk use a slow one

#

that is where playstyle comes from right

dim patio
#

this only affects auto attacks?

plain geode
#

yeah

dim patio
#

zerkers dont auto attack too much lol

#

that's the issue

#

most of the time they are hitting an ability off gcd

plain geode
#

that is an issue

dim patio
#

that's just the design of the class

#

that's why I said GCD mods

plain geode
#

so..no classes have any reliance on auto attacks anymore?

dim patio
#

the way abilities are designed in ethyrial are small gcd spammables

#

classes do

#

spellblade

#

for example

plain geode
#

i think that is the issue then

dim patio
#

but people like the spammable abilities. I do too. It's fun to do that

plain geode
#

attack speed has been nerfed out by GCDS

dim patio
#

Well, increase the GCD then!

#

2h sword = 2s GCD

#

1h sword = 1s GCD

plain geode
#

i feel like if a player sees their cds go up it will feel bad lol

dim patio
#

compared to the current state, 100%

frail oasis
dim patio
#

not saying it would feel good

plain geode
#

personally i would make it 2cd flat, and then give some room for attackspeed / auto attack actually having a purpose

frail oasis
#

don't muck with cds - suds is right.. that takes away agency. modify 2h damage

dim patio
plain geode
#

course they do 😄

dim patio
#

well if it's fun, dont fix it!

frail oasis
#

and put them on their own gcd

plain geode
#

riight but long term what on earth is going to make the classes feel diff if everyone is just slamming on cd

#

i feel like it stunts more than is worth

dim patio
#

the actuation of abilities are all instant lol

#

arc vs tornado shot

#

screen explodes in 1s in both scenarios

plain geode
#

yes but the effect those abilities have is vastly different across multiple of the same class

dim patio
#

yeah so modifying the effect of the abilities is what we need to do

#

berserkers are just zugging

#

spellblades are similar but they are managing stacks

plain geode
#

and im saying if AS and weapon type are irrelevant, what is going to be unique about unique weapons?

dim patio
#

crusaders have to stack manage too

dim patio
#

idk

plain geode
#

its a big issue lol i feel like it touches into a lot of other systems

dim patio
#

it's up to ryan

plain geode
#

im not sure you could have a class that built stacks through auto attacking this way

#

if its gcd spam to build and spend, thats a whole method off the table

dim patio
#

well if I make a class that doesn't have spammable abilities and requires auto attacks to increase stacks, then that's that

plain geode
#

but you could never have an item that was like double stacks off auto attacks, because every other class would smoke that effect

#

i feel like you buff every ability and nerf all attack speed lol. slower game for sure, but less hyper focus on gcd spam 🤷‍♂️

frail oasis
#

i think a solution there is to take a lot of stuff off cd.

When I think about classes that traditionally stack, they have multiple spenders with no cd to incentivise decision flow. A lot of ethyrials stackers have a clear cut path because their spenders are all gated by cds

dim patio
#

CDs are a dps control mechanism though

frail oasis
#

you control the dps thru stacks tho don't you?

#

and so your control is the gcd

dim patio
#

it's stacks and CDs

#

like sader

#

draconic onslaught

frail oasis
#

yeah, but if i could just hold the button down and get to 5 stacks in one second, it'd be busted. the limiter is the gcd. How much damage can I do in 10 gcds

#

If you take everything off cd and make it 5 stacks to use, and make it so you can acquire 1 stack per gcd. Then you can measure how much damage a player can output in 5 gcds in any given situation. etc etc

#

not tryna mansplain... sorry. I think we're kinda saying the same thing tbh..

plain geode
#

nerf everyone, add a system to un nerf yourself with opportunity cost

#

hell, add 3 tiers of it

#

specialization, mastery, grand mastery .5 / .5 / 1.0 class specific cooldowns

#

(or numbers that make sense )

frail oasis
#

@dim patio it feels like you guys need an intermediate modifier at the very least. Something like "attack power"

plain geode
#

chisme rn

dim patio
latent pelican
#

I hate that changing audio sources on system level still resets all the audio sliders in game to 100% very_mad
I change between sources a lot when I work on tracks, so it's annoying having to mute the game in the system mixer grrrr! ANGRY
(Mostly because I forget to unmute it after lmao and I like the sounds when I'm actually playing)

plain geode
#

its a bit weird they get an AS buff if they arent autoing anymore lol

#

i guess another way to look at things could be buffing abilities when using dual or shield etc.. be a lotta work tho

dim patio
#

increase attack speed might squeeze some autos in there actually lol

magic sandal
#

with the weapon CDS you have.

#

and with the hard ASPD cap u have.

#

20% doesnt do shit

#

you can clap out 75% ASPD and ur capped at 50% which only give you an extra one A.A based on swing timer charge.

#

2 if duals

#

🤷

#

and thats why i hate ethyrial

#

all the arbitary caps on everything.

#

when everything is just getting better...... stronger..... faster.....

#

ive already tested ASPD to its fullest.

#

achieved 90% ASPD

#

and was capped at 50%

#

which constitutes to one "extra" A.A

frail oasis
# magic sandal you can clap out 75% ASPD and ur capped at 50% which only give you an extra one ...

I wonder if anyone has suggested to figure out what the hard caps are, determine that as the limit and then work backwards to level one in a methodical manner, so that % increases have some level of viability and balance.

Seeing that 10% move speed food the other day made me go, realistically, its just slapping shit to a wall.

Because there is no way, even if hell were to freeze over, that 10% move speed on a single item, let alone a consumable, would get past even the smallest amount of QA

magic sandal
#

nothing beats its

frail oasis
#

No really? What makes you say that?

magic sandal
frail oasis
#

I cant imagine a movement speed disparity of 30% causing any significant gearing issues long term in a pvp game.

magic sandal
#

wait till you get ahold of 30%

frail oasis
magic sandal
#

<.<

frail oasis
magic sandal
#

the whole games toast bruh MPSD is just the kicker

#

already abusing Voidbow.

#

for cheap kills

frail oasis
plain geode
#

the as cap is 1 attack every .1 seconds iirc

dim patio
wide jay
#

i was a giant noob back then, this is just to guard negative values

the minimum is 1s/swing

plain geode
grand wagon
#

Hows that bug fix coming akong for dungeon respawn?

wide jay
#

should have a fix soon here

sand edge
#

I hate the in-game map. If there wasn't the online map tool I would have quit after I reached edrivine at level 12 cause I felt so lost.

magic sandal
#

thats why theres hard caps

dim patio
tidal cliff
#

I feel like this should be its own forum style text channel, so things arent buried and we can discuss things individually...aaaaaanyways

#

I hate that you cant simply walk off small ledges. Getting around any elevations is frustrating when you hit invisible walls because its a 6 inch drop

fleet cobalt
#

I'm gonna stretch the seriousness a tiny bit, but valid I think, or I'm ootl and is thinking privileged, but I'd wanna know all the changes made, patch-note wise, that has any impact, might be super annoying to do though, Im aware of that possibility, but knowing the tinitiest of yank, even if it's not related to the yank i experience would make me feel better and more motivated to just deal with it. And I love data, details, all of it.

Tiny bit sad that stats, different skill, character levels doesn't tell me anything at all about what it does, damage mitigation? damage increase? resistances? It's not telling me enough about what any of it does and is a bit de-motivating to really push towards the next level of something other than, in X many levels I can now equip these kind of things, makes it .. blocky? replace and replace, no nuances to stuff, if there even is any, which I don't know xd. But it's not a super serious hatred, just something that would motivate me more personally

Edit; To be clear, I see the continues improvements, and I'm happy to see it all, and its encouraging, not purely hating or talking down on the development of the game, the pace or whatever.

dim patio
tidal cliff
#

There's a sweet spot between providing information and over sharing actual formulas and calculations. I agree it would be nice to have some additional level of detail, but not too much.

fleet cobalt
rare glen
#

For me personally, something I realized is that the world is just very... soulless. At least after the "newbie island". There is no real connection to the mainland, no real life or something which could peek my interest.

In the newbie island I felt it was an MMORPG and on the main land I feel more like it's just a game so to say. I think the beginning was just so charming and you had so many people there walking around, doing stuff, potentially to talk or kind of group up with. Yeah I have a guild and they were active which helped a lot but it's kinda lonely so to say when you leave to the main land.

And just to clarify something:
I don't blame the devs or want to say that the game is garbage. The potential is there and I know it takes time to make things better and reach the desired outcome. I'm still interested and look forward to updates for now. But it's just hard to be motivated when I don't have that sense of being immersed in the world I first experienced. Or at least more of. For now this is MY biggest critique I have. Maybe there are more things but I think whatever I do in the game it would feel better with a better world.

So please don't give up devs and I don't want this to be about me. I think the future looks bright for this game. I had a lot of fun already. Looking forward for more. 🤗

frail oasis
magic sandal
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i feel like zorg mentioned this once

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and maybe me

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<.<

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lore needs more meat less taters

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🍖 > 🥔

frail oasis
fleet cobalt
frail oasis
sand edge
#

I would say for starters, give us damage numbers on skill hover so we can see how different gear-enchants affect skill damage

fleet cobalt
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Of course, during the day, that's the time frame I'll put, I pushed too hard yesterday, night and morning, not in pristine thinking condition right this second

wide jay
dim patio
rare glen
# frail oasis 1. Is the soulless feeling you describe something that is brought forward from t...

I don't even know who this William is. 😳

I think your "Lack of connection"-point is applicable but lore reasons are maybe secondary. I try to clarify more now that I have a better understanding of my feelings.

The first thing you get after the tutorial is a quest or serval quests which introduces the world in a charming way. You see the girl which lost her pet in the fountain, you get the quest to bring baverages to some "groggy" man, you see the spider hunters because of the plaque and so on. There is always something going on in the first town. And even after leaving the island you still know the points of interest and I can tell directly what someone means if someone tells me a vague description of these things.

In Edrivine you get a teleporter, some guards and a "lifeless" town (at least for me). There is nothing of interest there for me. And outside it's even worse in my opinion. There is nothing I'm interested in. And there are also low player numbers (this is not meant to blame the devs. I know that player numbers are low) which doesn't help.

Imagine you get an introduction to the town in a way. Imagine there is a circus and you can find them trying to practice or worry because there is an animal on the loose (like a elephant) from their circus and they can't perform their full set without the elephant and it's your job (in form of a quest) to get the elephant which runs around the town with circus workers behind them. Or you could make a race which shows you in a funny way what you can expect from the town in form of a tour. And after you get the elephant you can play in the circus and perform some tricks if you want which can give you money or something else. This way you instantly know which town is meant when talking about the circus. Maybe the clown could play a mayor and plays some jokes on you and reveals through jokes that he isn't the real mayor and the mayor can reference that he likes to trick new people and is "annoyed" but likes them.

rare glen
dim patio
#

I think there are a lot of factors that can contribute to things feeling lifeless

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In the Elder Scrolls games, for example, it's not like you get a quest from everyone and there are things always happening in the town. There are definitely small things that happen, but also the way Elder Scrolls simulates life is by people actually moving around the town and having their own AI

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This is true for games that abstract this much more, like Starsector.

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Starsector is a sandbox game that doesn't have too many main stories, and you're just a ship moving around, but what makes the game "feel alive" is it simulates movement, NPC activity, and a dynamic economy in real time

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If we said, "Ok, in edrivine we will add 50 more quests, like in SI," i'd challenge that this wont change the fact that the game feels less alive.

  1. There needs to be more sound queues. People talking, ambience of a city moving around.
  2. There needs to be people moving about. Entering stores, saying "hello, XYZ, how's it going"
  3. There needs to be connections between people in different towns, so that it feels like relationships extend beyond one point.
  4. There needs to be quests that link one place to another
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in World of Warcraft, small things like guards patrolling Orgrimmar can add kinetics to an area that would otherwise feel like a diorama

rare glen
#

For me I lost this sense of world building to a certain degree. And even if there are things I like I don't feel the connection any more. I think, as long as player numbers are low, some sort of NPC or more NPCs could bring things to life. Maybe more lore can help too.

To elaborate a bit more:
The newbie island is relatively notorious for having a lot of places for crafting built into smaller spaces. You almost always have some people smithing there, wood working there etc. it it's more spread out in Edrivine which makes sense but also reduces the "life" in the town. I don't want to say that every town needs some sort of hub area, just that it's part of things. As @dim patio already said, yeah it makes sense because everything is bigger. That is not what I argue personally and understand that completely.

Hope I make myself relatively clear. It's important for me to say that I don't fault anybody. Not the players, not the devs or anybody. I want to state my feelings and hope that it resonates.

And I hope it's constructive and respectful. If not please say so. Not used to give these kind of feedback. :)

dim patio
sand edge
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edrivine is unnecessary big imo

dim patio
#

Edrivine is necessary from a lore perspective. It being by the water makes sense because it's rich. It's where all the money goes in to the Church of Edrivine, which is the basis for the theocratic system that we want humans to be based on

rare glen
# dim patio If we said, "Ok, in edrivine we will add 50 more quests, like in SI," i'd challe...

I really like these things. Ofc. outside you can add life too via rumors like on the Soli Islands which reference things outside of the town. Like why the bear hunters on the main land "near" Edrivine are doing those things. Maybe there is already and I haven't experienced it.

Ofc WoW lore is like insane (and pretty cool imo) but WoW is a completely different beast. But yeah like you said Orgrimmar is insane to look at and there is life too via NPCs, players etc. but I think the things you mentioned could help alot. 👍

dim patio
#

it's depressing

rare glen
dim patio
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Trappers are just money-hungry people looking for profit. Like the highwaymen to the south

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But I guess to sum it up, for now, we need to be very precise on what things we want to work on and be creative in how we prioritize certain things. If there is a way we can engineer a world that feels like it has more kinetics and life without needing to make 100 quests, I'll take that path

rare glen
dim patio
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And it's been a fun challenge to work through. Because we can't just make 100 quests. We don't have the man-power, time, or budget for that! 😛

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And it's that lean creatvity and scope narrowing that makes designing this game very fun and interesting

rare glen
dim patio
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What is important is that you do provide this feedback, though. It helps align our barometer on what things are important to players

rare glen
# dim patio What is important is that you do provide this feedback, though. It helps align o...

Yeah sure. I believe in this game and want it to succeed. And if I can help it to flourish then I think it's a good reason to say stuff.

But without you friendly devs who are motivated and take stuff the community says to heart (hopefully not damaging it in the process) this wouldn't be possible. If nobody cares then everything the community says/feels is kinda worthless (in regards to giving feedback).

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Yeah I don't play it actively right now but I think that the gaming/MMO-community deserve this game. 🙏

plain geode
# dim patio And it's that lean creatvity and scope narrowing that makes designing this game ...

something i did a ted talk about a long time ago, probably before you were even here, was about the bears on SI, when i made them agro toward rats and spiders. some poeple probably never notice but it adds a nice touch of life to the game when things are happening regardless of the player.

i noticed recently that the rabbit doesint seem to have its old ai anymore, which was just a simple avoid most other entities logic. they were actually so annoying to catch before that it necessitated the traps that are around. but i dont think the quest for rabbit meat even exists anymore 😄 but the idea was that hunter/ranged classes were more suited to it because of how evasive they are. i think an easy way to build up some more life into the game without being tied into writing quests and such would be to just add more interplay between things that aren't tied to the player.

make the neutral chickens fear people, to contrast with the angry wild ones.
make wolves chase rabbits, give rabbits a vanish ability
snakes can eat rats, maybe wolves fear snakes etc

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also things like when it rains, increase or buff water creatures or day and night modifiers etc

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i would say that being offered a quest that is only available at night, is more flavor and "life" than 5 regular quests

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( provided they are similar sized )

frail oasis
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To kinda tag on the back of suds post cos i agree with a lot of it.

Patrolling mobs that have long pat times and are carefully curated make or break immersion in camps.

One skill that i see being eroded from gamers is the ability to discern pats, split a camp successfully using cc, and then maintaining the split based on pat spawn.

Example. Group rocks up to a spot. Sees what they think is a clear spot to set up a camp (curated so), but that same spot is where 3 or different pats converge, all on lengthy routes, and 30 40 seconds apart or whatever. Maybe less depending on ttk.

All of a sudden the normal pull extends into oh shit a pat, into oh shit another pat.

Monsters fleeing at a % health pool would also add to this. Or alternatively players moving slower at lower hp so that they cant just auto bail on a bad situatio

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Ethyrial in my experience lacks any of the above nuance and it feels like a critical aspect of design to create an "alive world".

dim patio
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We do want to create patrols in dungeons that you have to avoid. In the deadlands barracks, I created a big baddy that people need to avoid or solo pull. We also added shock bombs that root out of combat enemies for 30 seconds

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So the tools and mechanics are there. We just need to make more punishing mobs. I thought I attempted this with the trash mobs in BoC but I guess people can still kill them

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But I think what suds was pointing towards was the natural behavior of mobs. I actually simulated something like this with the trappers outside of edrivine. Trappers are fighting the bears naturally like it’s a war between them. These are definitely paradigms that we want more of.

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I also want to add way more caravans along the main road. I think that’s a low hanging fruit

rare glen
plain geode
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yeah it used to be the cooking initiation test. not sure if its still part of that as i havnt done the shrimp part yet lol

rare glen
#

To add to the quests: I think quest have to be immersive and make sense. From what I gathered over time is that MMOs are really often using the *Go to A and get me B from entity C (could be mobs or other NPCs)" which is okay to a certain extent but when like 80-90% of the quest revolve around this concept it's not very fun in my opinion.

rare glen
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@plain geode Something I want to add: If ever possible it would be immersive if animals showed some kind of "warning behavior". If I rememeber correctly some spiders try to make themselves bigger and thus more dangerous before attacking IF someone wants to get too close. Or if bears have cubs that they get a bigger aggro radius and maybe a small damage buff (like 5-10% maybe) because they want to protect (if authentic). Maybe you can't fish around when bears are near because they eat them or something. Little things to give animals more life.

Yes these are not the biggest things but still cool and adds to world building.

plain geode
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yeah that could be cool

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little warning animations

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theres also a cave on si that would home a mother bear 😄

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its lost its spawns at some stage so could be a good spot for it

frail oasis
frail oasis
# dim patio But I think what suds was pointing towards was the natural behavior of mobs. I a...

To be sure. I wasnt trying to detract, or summarise suds. His points are all valid imo and different to mine as youve pointed out.

I just wanted to chime in while the bells were ringing as to another aspect of "npc behaviour".

If there is one game that does patrols incredibly well its eq. Some of those mother fuckers are on like 20 minute paths and well hello there mr sand giant.

And whats more is you heard them before you saw them. Giant footsteps coming from outside of clip plane. But which direction? Intense suspense cos that thing gonna clap cheeks

frail oasis
frail oasis
rare glen
frail oasis
rare glen
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But for me quests are just a part of the package. ^^

frail oasis
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For sure. I understand. I was only addressing a small part of your overall point

rare glen
plain geode
#

Hate theres no 1h reward option for alpha quest

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or lunch quest

wide jay
#

bump

faint hearth
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When you use a potion but there's a delay and you die but the potion gets used anyways D:<

Also when you use the leyline stone in Doombringers and it eats the CD of it D:<

frail oasis
stone tinsel
#

not what makes Me hate ethyrial, but when players realize that ele rift is the only instanced group activity from lvl 33/34 to level 40, they instantly lose the drive to keep playing the game and end up quitting. happened to 2 different groups of players i was grinding with, whole guild quit the game

dim patio
stone tinsel
tulip iris
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The one thing I hate right now, and it will be hard to convey in words, but when I explore around the world I don't get lost I get frustrated. Things pop into view and it don't feel like it lives there. I made a post about one area it was just an example of how world building works. There needs to be a connection with what's on the land and why it is there. I'm trying not to hurt anyones feelings when I type this because I do love the game. The world needs work. that's the first thing people see. it doesn't have to be good graphics, it just has to make sense. I hope this helps more than the drawing. Because I truly hope for it to get better, if I just didnt care or was a selfish reason I wouldn't even waste my time typing I'd just be gone without feedback. That's what most people do, they aren't going to tell you what they think is wrong they'll just leave. The best advice I can give is look at what other awesome game worlds did and mimic it, because the reasons the points of interest looks good is because careful time went into planning the "reveal" it's to say like when you crest a hill and see a meadow full bloom of flowers and the grass dancing in the wind, a horse dipping it's head down to take another chomp, you stand in wonder. It should invoke feeling of dread if the land had been corrupted and is displacing the wildlife " like dang that's bad". or if you want cultist doing sick rituals they do it in dark places not easily found. but there could be indications as to where it's taking place. I can go on for hours about what makes a world look great. I've got a lot of love in my heart I want to see people do well. Even if I'm not around to benefit from it. Yes there are still kinds like me out there.

stone tinsel
frail oasis
tulip iris
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I haven't done enough quest to know if there is lore written in them, many of my quests bugged in solitary island cutting off towards the end so on. So I couldn't tell you what was being told story wise. I think you can get a lot out of visual story telling that most people can't really mis versus story in quest text that people skip so often.

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And with that being said when you have quest that send you to some area, and you go there to deal with it, you see the state of the area, it visual tells a story, picture worth 1000 words type of deal.

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If I go south leaving Erdrivine, I see crocodiles on the beach and wasp on the hill. it very odd, because the crocs don't do this seawater ones rarely take to land, when I go north to the swamps there is bears, i would have put horses on that hill where the wasp are turtles on the beach and the bear in mountainous forest terrain. these are just small details people may not know why they look out of place. or just don't feel right.

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this is throughout the lands, weird placements. It feels for the sake of content or a close to town grind. I'm not trying to down the game just giving honest opinions of what I am experiencing visually.

frail oasis
frail oasis
#

The quality system feels very weak and shallow at the moment. The tiers mean nothing for the most part. The sole modifier is > 50% durability on armour, or unable to equip the item because it's broken.

I dislike that the game had a nuanced nature to both the levelling of crafting, and the scaling of weapons, and that this was ripped out and what remains is more or less meaningless. There was a time where crafting a perfect weapon meant something more than how long it was going to last, and with a quality system, so it should.

I'd like to see more systems put in place, to accentuate that original depth that both crafting and weapon scaling had based on quality, to deepen the game.
A suggestion to that end is to add a magic dust of dusting. This would allow an Enchanter of the relevant skill and tier to dust the item, reducing it's durability wear by whatever %. Maybe make it so that if you find super rare magic dust of dusting that makes the players' armour not deteriorate at all.

Another one is to let players craft repair kits for relevant things. Down to the tier of the item being repaired.
E.g

Cotton Armour repair kit
Repairs a %durability to a cotton item based upon the quality of the kit.

Steel Repair Kit
Repairs a %durability to a steel item based upon the quality of the kit.

I don't feel like I level up through the qualities while I craft in a smooth way. I craft good quality for days at x3 or x8 of the tier, then I'm cranking out perfect stuff.
After that, I'm just worried about my armour getting to 50%, and it's kinda just a nuisance, because the change matters, but you can't really prepare to mitigate it, and it's a reminder of what's missing everywhere else.

Finally. The fact that a player can create a poor quality weapon, at the beginning of the tier, and then use the relevant materials to have a perfect item, nullifies the gain of a higher level crafter who can create a higher quality weapon in virtue of their skill. I hate that.

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And the only caveat I can see in a system to make it feel good, is to reduce the Max %durability on an item whenever it is repaired, in an effort to curb players doing so. Which seems like more work in the first place, but at least it'd balance it out

tulip iris
#

Okay I was testing armor and the resistences. Heavy armor and the magic resistance is either not real or something changes it to not work properly. Example I was wearing full Azurium heavy armor, 186.6 (14.5%) magic resistance. damage dealt by fire elemental 223, do this 5 times number stays 223. Change armor Full mistrel 249.6 (18.5%) fight mob again same damage from that ability and the other 223 damage. no change in actual resistance.

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I will test other armors and other mobs.

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Purple mushroom man Azurium out performs the Mistrel armor. damage range 65-75 corrupted bolt. Azurium armor I was mainly getting hit for 66 damage Mistrel mostly 75.

dim patio
tulip iris
#

I would love to test it further and if I had exact numbers of what the spells damage range is supposed to be for this particular mob "fire elemental" I could do just that. I just noticed that the numbers and the resistances where not adding up on the above attempt. And so I did go back to this mob to test it further. the numbers were different. the fire nova 223 damage was when I tested it the first time so consistent there was no range example(223-275). I logged out and went back to the same place, did the same thing and I got different numbers the range was so great it made testing for me as a regular player impossible to track. the numbers for fire nova could be from 223 to 275 with armor. And because the % is low a 4% difference the change would be small. and I do want to apologise for putting this in this tab it's just simply not the right one and this doesn't make me hate the game. And to Clarify I think it was just a bug, I cannot verify it. I don't want to waste your time but what I want to add is the reason I thought this is because those elemental are my rival lol, and so I went back to that place because I got an armor upgrade and wanted to kill them. and I just so happen to want to test the armor and I noticed no change. thats how we got here.

rare glen
dim patio
# rare glen I also made a post along the lines of what you are saying and I agree. I also wa...

We are definitely working towards doing this! There are two examples of this in action:

  1. Marshdale area is now a marsh, it is basically an intersection between goblins and humans. It wasn't like this before lol
  2. The area around Cobalt Tower in Irumesa has pink grass and shrubbery, evident of leyline leakage into the foliage. We are going to continue to build out that area into an "Uppity Mage" area
rare glen
primal peak
#

I really hate login bugs, cant move bug, unable to repawn in dungeon bug
Edit, respawn by name plate seems to work again

rare glen
plain geode
#

@wide jay

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i hate invis server shutdown message, add it to the new log feed or system 🙏

wooden peak
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performance

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many hours since july 30th

image.png
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100fps until recent grass patch, down to 25 max now, gpu temps 75c+

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can't play, sadge

sand edge
#
  • I was capped at 144 FPS and now I'm between 60-90 depending on location
plain geode
#

it murdered the fps

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also cap the fps to 60, the cycling up and down from say 60-144 etc can cause temps to go up

plain geode
#

loading into here and being dead 👎

Annotation_2025-09-16_000710.png
wild cliff
#

I'll play the game again when there's an account wide stash tab for HC so that I can have a crafting/gathering alt without having to trade through a guildmate.

plain geode
#

can we get a tut skip @dim patio

dim patio
jade mountain
#
  • i hate zorg he has more complain than his game time.
  • i hate berserk charge that will stuck you in unreachable places/roofs/etcs
  • i hate dlp. Its not fun. Its forced grind day job feels.
  • i hate that i have to pay noping or exitlag to have a decent ping.
  • i hate jc taskboard rewardsz
  • i hate terrain bug, blockades, rubberbanding
  • i hate that you have to walk too far its a waste of time. Some mobs are too far too each other like hydra and arcanic
  • i probably hate more but im lazy atm
frail oasis
uncut beacon
#

You guys have got to fix the bug where your weapon's imbued buff shows as active when doing a fresh log in. This has been an issue since I started playing this game and is a serious detriment to the new player experience.

When I first started, I rolled a Spellblade and had an absolutely miserable time leveling and killing mobs. I had to rest after every mob and came close to quitting so many times until I was convinced to reroll to Paladin.

I only noticed that my weapon was not truly imbued after the first session when I did not receive any natural Holy Wrath procs on hits for like 30 mins.

If no one tells newer players that this is a bug, the power perceptions, leveling experience of those classes, and enjoyment of the game will be severely crippled.

wide jay
#

Great point, we will prio this

ashen iris
#

I hate not knowing/being able to look up drop rates

stone tinsel
# ashen iris I hate not knowing/being able to look up drop rates

i hate having to ask devs if something is actually dropping/in the game before i go try to target farm specific things. after being burned by trying to just go grind it out and learning its not dropping or in the game, or being told it is and finding out its actually not, multiple times. 😭

wide jay
#

what item?

stone tinsel
# wide jay what item?

first it was demon watcher heart, which was then fixed after i had killed 3000 of them and asked again, after being told it was in the game. then it was a certain mount, across 2 characters, after being told the rare mob was in game and would drop the mount. which as you are aware i am now incessantly asking for it to be implemented >_>. then it was phoenix heart, which thankfully i stopped and asked again before grinding too long for it. a collection log type system would definitely help this so you could see the potential rare drops that things have/dont have. i have no complaint over drop rates or rng or anything like that. grind is grind 🫡 edit: i heard this exact thing also happened with the regular bear pet

grand wagon
stone tinsel
grand wagon
faint hearth
ashen iris
#

does anyone think the profession sets are worth the time and effort it takes to get them?

tropic aurora
# ashen iris does anyone think the profession sets are worth the time and effort it takes to ...

The Blacksmith set seems like the only one that is worth the time and effort since the number of ores you can mine + the quantity requires to make a bar are the lowest at only 2 Ores per Bar compared to 3 Leather Scraps per Processed leather per monster and 10 Fibers per Cloth.

Ore is so plentiful that I've seen some people have their BS out pace their heavy armor levels past 35 when they hyper focus on it.

Leather being 3 scraps per kill and cloth only collecting at level 9 fibres and still requiring 10 to make 1 piece of cloth is the worst experience for tailor leveling. Ores also tend to be clustered, where fibres are spaced fairly distant from eachother so it seems it requires much more time to level tailor vs the others.

Leather you can atleast AoE farm at one point

ashen iris
tropic aurora
ashen iris
#

haha no worries

stone tinsel
ashen iris
#

yeah...I'm at like 100 million fishing xp and still havent seen the helm.

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feels supremely bad for how lackluster they are

gloomy mauve
#

I hate when I try to talk to an NPC and the window closes on me.

dim patio
frail oasis
gloomy mauve
# dim patio which npc?

A number of them. The task board guy in Farwood is one. Sometimes the fisherman... I like to read the quests.

dim patio
#

there may be an issue with their dialogue skipping

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let me look at the task board guy

frail oasis
#

Its as if the logic is checking storage value for quest and then once valid, wraps up the convo

dim patio
#

the task guy will say "let me check task" and there is a wait command before he checks it

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so there is not supposed to be a pause there at least

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not seeing skips with sternbrand when testing

dim patio
gloomy mauve
#

James

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is the task board guy

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But yes Patrick did for the fishing quest

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More importantly though I think some kind of waypoint system would be helpful. For connecting with friends.

dim patio
#

wdym?

gloomy mauve
#

I mean trying to describe to someone where a dungeon is to meet is difficult. If I could simply click on the map and share the location with others...

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or if I find a location for something I want to gather more of in the future maybe some way of marking it on the map to allow for ease of finding again in the futurre

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Maybe even just long and lat values?

frail oasis
gloomy mauve
frail oasis
gloomy mauve
#

I hate getting turned tiny and falling through the map.

frail oasis
#

Perhaps if the map was split into subset zones, similar to Wildlands, and had internal co-ordinates per zone, then players could share their co-ordinates, and zone and that'd narrow things.

Sort of like old EQ. I'm in WK at x, y co-ords

glad cave
#

Or you could use the interactive online map

gloomy mauve
gloomy mauve
# dim patio which npc?

Wodrick Umberstock is another NPC that closes chat dialogue. I submitted cyanide for quest and he said "let me give you..." and the chat closed. I got nothing and quest is no longer in his dialogue.

plain geode
#

he ran out of quest rewards 😄

plain geode
#

@dim patio @wide jay is the civil war aspect still going to be part of the game? with all the criticism of Edrivine, i feel like a good way to tackle it would be limiting access to the majority of the city, put it into some form of lockdown or high security etc, make players build favor/reputation with the city through "main quest" type things to gain increased access later down the quest line. gives reason to unlock specific areas of the city. #hallpass

move all the trainers into a more centralized area, near the teleporter seems like the current intention anyway, with a theme of supporting the nearby towns/areas that are not getting the typical support from Edrivine anymore.

people hanging around the main entrance to the city looking for help from capable adventurers.

there are big areas of the city that could be locked off by closing some of the gates, throw a bit of dialogue on the guards when you approach and it would be fairly easy to convey the situation to players

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you could also just fully move some trainers to outer towns into some more thematically suited spots

dim patio
plain geode
#

none of the criticism ive seen is about accessibility imo, its not hard to get around. its that there is very little to do for its size. i just figure instead of deleting it, you limit some of the areas that have nothing going on. like the area above docks etc. and then as people have a reason to go to those places because of any quest, it opens up to them.

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as you come up with the quests you can give reason to unlock those places. civil war thing is just a way to unite the theme of it, could be anything

dim patio
gloomy mauve
#

I'd like to see some cooking recipes you can only get from quest or drop. Doesn't work without the special stirring spoon or something.

dim patio
faint hearth
#

There are so many underground places, dungeons with roofs, low ceilings, etc. That make the camera awful. Either by jumping up and down, clipping, hiding your character, making it impossible to use ground target skills, etc.

This forces you to either zoom in really close, not do rotations specific ways, lose the ability to use some skills, etc.

glad cave
random umbra
#

Charge trapping, because you happen to press on the ceiling tile. Caves does this a lot, even BoC has this too pensivewobble

stone tinsel
random umbra
#

Had to do the tp stone and /stepbro

plain geode
plain geode
gloomy mauve
#

On the topic of meeting up with friends using the map... I always thought it'd be kind of cool to have a difficult quest that allows you to show up on a map. Maybe different parts for each item.

tepid plank
#

loading screen bug is killing the game, please fix it

random umbra
#

Ngl it's super frustrating

tepid plank
#

can't do dlp, can't do maps, can't do mama

wide jay
#

Have an attempted fix for this we will push probably tomorrow

stone tinsel
dim patio
dense talon
# wide jay Tell us what is making you REALLY MAD about Ethyrial.... # so we can fix it!

What really gets me a bit frustrated with Ethyrial isn’t the big stuff, but the amount of small bugs that affect the quality of life and take quite a while to be fixed. Meanwhile, things that aren’t really a priority — in my humble vision — sometimes get added first.

I completely understand that each dev probably has a specific focus and role, and I truly appreciate all the work being done. Still, some parts of the game, like broken quests or systems that used to work but don’t anymore, can be a bit discouraging.

A good example is the "new" food system — there are recipes that were added months ago but are still undocumented, not on the wiki, and very few people even know how to make them. Secret recipes and hidden quests are fun, but I think getting the core parts of the game stable and accessible should come first.

Overall, the game is amazing — seriously, great job — and I know it’s still in alpha and completely free, so this isn’t a complaint, just honest feedback since you asked. I really believe these "small" things will help bring in and keep a lot more new players.

gloomy mauve
#

The docks in Finville village have invisible walls on them.

gloomy mauve
#

Lately when bank is open I can't open inventory. Have to close bank and open inventory first. Seems kind of random though.

gloomy mauve
#

I dislike that I just went through a whole rigamarole to get a new cape (Silver Threaded Cloak of the Alpha) as an upgrade to my old cape (Oath Cloak free from some nekid guy in Farwood), spent 25g to upgrade it and it's the same stats as what I've been wearing. Granted it looks way cooler but I think either the Oath Cloak could use a nerf or my new cloak could use a buff. They should not be the same.

plain geode
#

oath cloak being better than base alpha is also really disappointing

dim patio
gloomy mauve
#

I understand there is a resistance buff as well later which will make it worth it.

frail oasis
wide jay
#

oath cape nerf inc PepeHands

plain geode
#

praise alpha wolf

dim patio
#

oath game cloak +2 con update inc

#

you know what

#

-50 health please

plain geode
#

it feels so bad getting that alpha cloak and it being worse lol

#

so many goblins died for that downgrade

dim patio
gloomy mauve
#

The alpha wolf looks better. I guess the silver lining is future upgrades

dim patio
wide jay
#

Feels bad until level 30 when you’re outshining the oath cloak noobs

dim patio
#

just nerf the oath cloak and move on

#

it also feels bad bc the shirt you get from brarlor sucks now too

wide jay
#

It always was worse than Alpha, more of a meme item

dim patio
#

im fine with it being worse than alpha

#

but oath cloak is free

#

you need legit effort for alpha, so im fine with the shirt being worse because technically easier to get

gloomy mauve
# dim patio but oath cloak is free

Though now that I thinkk on it, all the effort into the alpha cloak and that nekid guy on the mountain just gives you one. Interesting turn of events. makes you want to go back to nekid guy maybe.

dim patio
plain geode
gloomy mauve
dim patio
#

yeah I mean the guy is supposed to be ryan and he gives you the cloak because of 1 year anniversary of oath games

#

shouldn't really be tied to lore

plain geode
#

it should be a transmog

gloomy mauve
dim patio
#

I think +25 health and +25 mana is sufficient as an automatic buff early game and then do alpha to replace it

#

also +100 for both makes my monster balance early kinda off

gloomy mauve
dim patio
#

Genius

wide jay
#

bump

gloomy mauve
#

I don't actually hate this but lately I've been into some trick riding.

image.png
dim patio
#

hahahaahaha

gloomy mauve
gloomy mauve
#

With the Ethyrite mace equipped (1 hander I believe) I can equip an azurite shield, it shows on my avatar walking around, but it isn't reflected on the I screen... it just lets me keep feeding one shield aftter another in.

wide jay
gloomy mauve
wide jay
#

bump

gloomy mauve
#

Warrren's of Thought seems to be missing the Green Rat "Eranam". Can't complete task.

wide jay
gloomy mauve
#

I think that we should be able to invite guild members to party ffrom the guild menu.

faint hearth
#

Terrain blocking you from casting when it clearly shouldn't.

5EF649C8-254C-4269-AD6E-8D0F407B3032.png
gloomy mauve
dim patio
#

were you in a party?

gloomy mauve
#

This morning trying to enchant whenever I enchant more than 1 essence I get a message on the 2nd essence stating the item is incompatible.

dim patio
#

definitely possible there is a bug in there. We are refactoring the enchanting system a bit so that we can have enchants that work on specific items

gloomy mauve
#

There is an invisible barrier in the swamp here

image.png
frail oasis
#

I believe i had an idea that involved refactoring

dim patio
#

not that large of a refactor

#

we are just allowing more specific enchants...like instead of enchants being on all armor, it's an enchant that only works on chest plate

#

cough cough BoC enchants

frail oasis
#

yeeeh i'm witcha

dense talon
# dim patio not that large of a refactor

Well, if I could make a suggestion about Enchanting, it would be great if it had the same type of interface as the other professions — where you can queue multiple items, cancel midway, and have those small windows that give you a bit of control over the process, even though there’s no workbench for Enchanting.

That way, you wouldn’t need to keep pressing ‘F’. For example, if you’re enchanting 200 times in a row and want to stop halfway, the game currently doesn’t allow it. You either have to keep pressing F or put your itens in the bank to force an error.

Adding that kind of crafting window for Enchanting would make the process much smoother and more consistent with other professions.

wide jay
#

we do intend to fix this, just a temporary issue bc i was a noob when i set it all up

faint hearth
#

Flame Revenant's

Their auto range is far, they do 20% dmg per hit, their aoe spell does 20% per hit really quickly. There are times where the mob will auto you + insta cast magma which will do 60% of my hp pool nearly instantly.

I have to rest after nearly every mob. All around just a miserable mob to fight.

grand wagon
#

I jist switch from a melee class to duskbow to deal with flame revenants, can kill them so easily with that class

faint hearth
#

I hate that that's the one of the only options but you're 100% right.

dim patio
#

i slow their movement speed down when they do it

#

still not good?

faint hearth
#

If you're melee, you have to run around doing nothing for a few seconds.

If they do the weird, auto-cast-auto, you can die if you're not at 80% or higher cause it does basically 4 instances of damage.

Since they hit so hard you have to rest a lot or pot. They're just a really rough mob.

dim patio
#

i could increase their cooldown in between casts

faint hearth
#

I think the cd is ok?

Maybe if they were rooted or slowed while casting rather than chasing you it'd take the edge off enough while still forcing you to interact with the mechanic.

dim patio
#

rooted would invalidate ranged classes pretty much. I could increase the slow slightly

#

idk im testing these guys rn and they are really easy to dodge. Am i missing something?

#

movement speed is already -60%

image.png
#

their auto attack range is 3, which is standard

#

im not convinced they need a change 😛

faint hearth
#

yea, leave it for a bit.

Usually they feel alright it's just the one off scenarios where they auto + aoe quickly that has killed me a handful of times mid cast.

I'm fine with them being a skill issue unless others run into the same thing.

gloomy mauve
#

T3 essence seems to be hard to come by

#

while T2 and T4 are in plenty

wide jay
#

Bears west of marshdale might be good to hit for t3

gloomy mauve
#

I'll check them out thanks. So far the best I've found is Orks.

gloomy mauve
wide jay
#

lvl 10 should be good to hit the t3 table with t2/t3 essence

gloomy mauve
#

they seem to drop on bears about as often as they drop from Orks. Feels bad there isn't something that drops T3 primarily with T2 and T4 supplements.

wide jay
#

u might be able to kill t4 mobs (15-19) and get some t3s as well, since t3/t4 are in the same pool

gloomy mauve
frail oasis
#

Whereas t6 has all the individual magic line resists and thus drop like wildfire because they have greater representation on the table as a whole %.

Id put money on it

#

Given how the loot is currently tiered and set up

gloomy mauve
ashen iris
#

I hate that the Axe of the Titan is earth damage type even though Flamestrike uses the same flavor text with a different elemental type but still deals slashing damage.

image.png
ashen iris
#

why can't it just do Slashing Earth Damage 😄

wide jay
frail oasis
wide jay
wide jay
#

bump

worthy phoenix
#

how unhealthy is the incredibly long and exhausting grind for a mandatory item that has 0.01% chances to drop, being totally locked behind randomness even working your way to arrive to the point to be able to farm for it. stopping the farm to don't burnout means only to have left with a loss because coming back on that farm it would have been as if you had just started, even if you invested the last 10 days and 7000+ kills on the same mob, no progression but just a ridiculous rng on an end game item

dim patio
#

what item?

worthy phoenix
#

prismatic gem

wide jay
worthy phoenix
wide jay
#

Damn u are getting pretty unlucky so far

worthy phoenix
#

yeah... i mean, it could get worse, but also way lot better

image.png
#

the sad part is that even arriving this far, it counts less than zero cause it's a 0-100 chance for every kill so no progress has been done toward this objective even putting all myself into it... and not having any chance to make a step to get closer to it is the worse part, cause we can do nothing to improve odds on such an extreme low drop rate item

wide jay
#

As of now yes that’s correct

Normally you’d have the option to buy the item on the trade post and gold gain would be your progress

If you don’t get any drops after another day of killing lmk

worthy phoenix
#

given the odds to get such an item, the number of those gems being around the trading post will still be low compared to the number of people that may be requiring it imho so i still believe if we could be having any kind of chance to raise odds on getting that item would still be something to look into. to give an example, if jewelcrafting profession would work towards the improvement of the odds to extract that gem from those mobs as it already does improve odds on extracting gems from minable ores, or also the low chance to be dropping/extracting a specific shard from each of those mobs to be fused into a prismatic (if you are unlucky as i am being) would be something to have impact on working your way into it, getting closer

grave harness
#

I mean i killed about the same as you and never got it drop either

#

Drop rate is just awful especially since it in Wildlands and should be way easier to get to drop since its a pvp zone

frail oasis
#

The recent research change leaves a little to be desired. A quick goggle gives the definition. Research is the systematic gathering and analysis of information to create new knowledge.

There are multiple layers to this, so please bare with me.

  1. The act of researching the individual felt critical to learning about the individual. I manually research a bear, and I learn about a bear. This makes sense to me, and further, is rewarding my choice to manually research.

The replacement of the individual research option with a generic item that represents all, makes the research feel less personal.

An example is. I kill 20 trolls, and 20 Lunarions. I end up with a total of 14 Big Bones and go back to town and research them at the table. Am I researching Lunarions bones, or troll bones? What knowledge am I gaining of the invididual creature by researching these bones? Is my monsterpedia updating for all monsters that can drop Big Bones? Or does that only occur on the kill?

If individual monster research only happens on the kill, why have you taken away the immersion of field research? Intimate with the actual creature, which gives reason to why I'm learning about that specific creatures resists etc, to some generic "use item - fill bar" system. It feels very shallow and devoid of any tangible process other than, this item fit this tier.

  1. The amount of research xp gained from a kill at my research level is (21) is 10, it feels pitiful, and whilst I understand the number is arbitrary, so too is the feeling of the system now. As the above example shows, I could research 100 bones, and it'll make my research skill go up, but I'm not really sure what I've learnt about what. It isn't defining enough.

  2. I'm left with the overwhelming feeling that I'm not actually researching anything specific which is ironic given what research is meant to mean. If I were to be researching "Big Troll Bone", or "Big Wolf Bone", it'd feel a lot more personal

#

But as it is, it's completely ripped the heart and soul out of what was a very cool system, and the relationship between researching and the monsterdex now feels very devoid of anything directly meaningful.

I have a couple of questions which might help me understand things and change my perspective.

  1. Does researching a bone increase my knowledge of all monsters?
  2. What was the need to change the original system? I think it needed tweaks, but it at least made sense.
  3. Why was the act of manually researching a mob removed?
wide jay
#
  1. No it doesn’t atm
  2. It was limited in scale and wasn’t viable to get xp past like 100k
  3. Unnecessary extra interaction per mob, basically the project gorgon effect > kill pray inspect skin bury kiss hug

We do plan to add more bones, these are just the base ones to get the system going

frail oasis
#

Thats why i felt it fit.

But anyway.

Each animal type has a chart of 12 items. As you collect the items, you right click them and imbue them in your monsterdex. Once you have all the items collected, it finishes your research on that monster type

#

This way it feels like you are actually researching the monster type with tangible items.

You could then use that to supplement the generic bone system.

If researching a bone at a station doesnt increase my knowledge of all monsters, what is it doing apart from filling my xp bar? Is there anything tangible apart from xp?

wide jay
#

We can definitely apply mob specific xp as a feature of the profession

We can also expand the idea of bones > remains, fossils, etc

The xp for research I would think of as the proficiency globally at researching - knowledge of tools, strategies, etc - all stuff we can add

Lastly there’s no incentive yet but we will be layering in incentives across all skills over the next year

frail oasis
#

So for now there is no direct correlation between researching and monsterdex apart from the small amount of xp gained on kill?

#

Not a criticism btw, realise more to come. Just trying to understand it fully as it is

wide jay
#

that is correct yeah, just the xp gain per kill, ~100 kills to max atm

frail oasis
#

K. I don't like that change as a fundamental. Think for the sake of fluidity it could've been built out a little more before switching.
Before, even tho the individual corpse was slightly cumbersome, it felt like my extra input was being rewarded. That agency thing.

I could choose to spend time mining/skinning/herbing, but I'm researching, and there's a tangible reward. I spoke to a couple players who actively researched everything because they wanted to fill their monsterdex out. It was an engaging system.

I actually thought xp from kill should be removed entirely, and that the scope for manual research should've been extended. As it was, manual researching ended pretty quickly and then it was back to the normal grind.

With the changes, I'm not going to bother doing any researching until additional changes come out, as, what's the point apart from number go higher? That in and of itself isn't enough to make me want to do it.
I get the end product of the new system may be better overall, but in terms of introducing it, I think the fundamental design loop of "research monster - learn about it" needed to be included in the transition to keep engagement persistent

dim patio
#

I think there are a lot of ways to accomplish the immersion of researching this way versus needing to research by right clicking the mob. Like Ryan said, the main issue was that the player was spending too much time interacting with one mob at a time. From a strict gameplay flow / UX point of view, the concept of researching bones and making that a separate, decoupled activity allows a player to separate the act of killing mobs as one activity (and achieve a flow state grinding) while making research another activity:

Things that we could do in the future to improve the system:

  1. Items that allow you to analyze the mob for a bolus of research XP in addition to this main loop. This allows players like yourself, who desire the immersion, to be rewarded for that choice.
  2. Specific drops from the mobs (maybe even rare drops) that give a bolus of XP. Like if the drakes dropped a drake wing that was 1/100 drop chance and gave a ton of drake xp.
  3. Microprogression systems (brought this up in Oath discord) with a monster manual where as you kill enemies, you "take notes" on them in your manual and create "pages" of your book that are a requirement for upgrading the book. The higher "tier" your book, the more unlocks on that particular mob>
#

Lots of ways to skin the cat, but the main goal is to streamline the time per mob

frail oasis
#

Aye understood.

All of or any of the above sound pretty good. It would've been nice to see one of those at least released in conjunction, but I understand not always viable.

The monster manual is essentially what i was talking about without items.

Except the item idea would be mob type, not mob.

So for example. To fully research wolves, you would have to find an item from wolf cub, regular wolf, corrupted wolves, alpha wolf, etc. Maybe wolf cubs have a couple items or whatnot.

Different mobs like demons will be fully researched later in the game etc.

#

Basically. The monsterdex is a very cool part of Ethy and this patch has taken away from it. I think itd be nice if fundamental changes didnt undermine already fundamental systems as they are, is the main thrust of my comments here.

dim patio
#

We know that the monster manual makes ethyrial unique and there is no way we are going to miss this opportunity! Stay tuned for more research goodness

torpid hornet
#

It feels bad getting rough gems from mining t8+ nodes with 40+ jewelcrafting

wide jay
#

T8s drop high level gems natively, the roughs are an extra bonus

torpid hornet
#

But why give tier 1 gems as a bonus? You don’t get extra tier 1 scraps when skinning a lunarion etc

worthy phoenix
faint hearth
#

Mobs with long DoTs. If you have them cast on you right as they die you wait around for the duration to do anything (skinning, gathering, etc). For example, Leshii's DoT lasts for 10s. Could it last for 5 but do dmg every second instead?

DE9AD034-3A75-4736-AEDB-B6CB33D41705.png
molten shell
dim patio
hybrid turret
faint hearth
wide jay
#

roger

molten shell
molten shell
faint hearth
# wide jay roger

the new camera changes are nice. Still lots of weird roofs and issues with placing spells but at least it's not zooming in and out like crazy anymore 🙏

rugged spruce
#

A smelter would be nice to automate blacksmithing like the tanning rack does for leatherworking and also maybe the tanning rack and the fabrick maker can give passive xp

prisma kiln
#

I would like to preface this with that I have monkey brain. If the solution takes too much time for me to figure out, I’ll ignore it until it until I eventually run into it.
Also I haven’t played consistently so I might of missed updates.

I can’t find bigger bags

Crafting is weird for me
And since crafting is weird I don’t do it and I have a bunch of materials I don’t need or want

Grinding is taking a long time and I’m only level 24. This is mostly problematic for me bc I want to do keys and I don’t think I can.

Nobody to do dungeons with

It takes a long time to get a new class to try

I usually skip quests but sometimes when I do them they don’t work like gather quests

Gold drops on the floor if my bags are full

Ranking up skills but there’s no button to see what it unlocks

Ranking up class skills didn’t feel good past unlocking all the spells

Having to relevel melee skills bc I’m caster even with monster hunter books

Not being able to safe spot monsters

Towns feel empty with the exception of quests sprinkled in

Vendors never had anything super useful besides necessary tools

I can’t find banks in other towns or cities besides the first one

Climbing mountains feels bad it and worse when I get stuck up there bc I can’t remember the path down

Is there disenchanting? If not why not bunch of greens I can’t use sometimes

Low level enchants don’t feel like they have an impact it’s like it’s just there to grind

Killing friendly NPCs don’t drop anything or does anything I just get infamy for it

I want more miniony spells for my class like why am I self casting like a worse mage

And the game is mix between wow and runescape but it feels like it took both types of their grinds I didn’t like and put them together. Like I gotta get a bazillion items (runescape) while micromanaging my character like wow.

In runescape you can mostly click and wait eventually go back with a stack to bank and in WoW you can like AoE grind stuff

wide jay
#

bump

molten shell
#

Cross posting this here as one of the biggest QoL issues I have with the inventory / bank: #1439523954174984242 message

Would love unified naming across various goods. You can't search the bank based on tier or item type (i.e. "T6 items" or "Leather goods" etc), you can only string search.

This becomes an issue when things aren't named in a unified way. T6 leather for example I can't just type "leather" or "hide" because they are actually called:

Timberhide
Demonhide
Darkshroud Leather

Ideally they would all have the "Leather" part of the name. Same is true for any trade good, really. Currently I type "scrap" for scraps that need refining, but doesn't work for all the leathers. It is much worse when it comes to fibers, you just have to remember the actual name of each fiber type and this gets extra confusing the deeper you get where there are multiple fibers for each tier. I can't just search "Fiber" I have to know it's "Arcanebloom" or "Shadowbud" etc.

It's not impossible to remember but it would be a big QoL addition to somehow unify all names to have fiber leather cloth etc so that you don't have to memorize all of the various crafting components and even better if you could search/sort by item type

frail oasis
molten shell
frail oasis
faint hearth
#

Trying to train low combat skills at higher levels.

I don't get any exp from mobs that I can kill well with T1-T3 gear so I have to fight harder stuff which is miserably slow because I'm wearing low level items trying to kill level 30 mobs for exp.

wide jay
#

Quick Q on this

What are you training atm?

faint hearth
#

ranged and survivalist. Both started at 5 and 1 respectively

frail oasis
#

You dont get melee skill for doing physical damage in melee combat... make it make sense

#

This is the entire reason monster hunter books were introduced though. To fix the disparity. So, at risk of sounding like an ass.

Just Monster Hunter?

faint hearth
#

It's on option but it feels bad to me.

If I use a MH book on a skill I have at 40+ it gives nearly 90k exp. if I use a MH book on my lower stuff it gives about 20k. Losing out on nearly 5x the xp... idk, man.

wide jay
#

MH book might be an outdated terminology now that they are dungeon quest completion rewards too Sinister

molten shell
#

The books seem to scale based on the level of the skill you choose which makes them pretty pointless for catching up lower skills.

That being said I agree with you Archaya. More broadly speaking, I really wish there were better catch up mechanics in place for other skills and disciplines. It feels awful having to do it all over again. Kinda goes against the "do everything on 1 character" idea, at least to me.

wide jay
#

It also scales off combat level

frail oasis
molten shell
wide jay
#

The alternative is leveling each character from scratch like WoW

#

Is that preferred?

frail oasis
#

I think people like the idea of one character, but are pointing out the feelings that are evoked by the current system.

Without wanting to use a name at this point, that system was introduced to alleviate other tensions in the previous system.

The resulting feeling is that it is band aid rather than developing a cohesive system where all parts are enjoyable to interact with

molten shell
#

I don't think that has to be the only alternative though. Seems a bit like a false dichotomy.

You can still have everything on one character (which I really love by the way) while not making it feel like you're basically making a fresh character. Just need some extra catch up to exp to make it not feel like such a slog.

grave harness
#

Yeah its just a fresh character but on your current 1, its tedious painfull and not enjoyable

#

I lvld melee to 35 just to use hellguard never lvling anything again

wide jay
#

Do we think this is a lack of collective knowledge progression?

Some people have ways to power level a discipline to 30 very quickly

If we think forward to when people find Strats and share them, that info will become public and if it’s easier than it is now, it’s even more trivial than it is now

The game is intended to be quite fast to 30, then slow up to 50

grave harness
wide jay
#

Classic pre-launch/launch vs today is a different story - even restedXP exists to optimize leveling speed

grave harness
#

Also discipline lvling is easy can use best gear and weapons

frail oasis
#

At the end of the day, its all been a sort of, progressive implementation. I remember commenting prolifically at the time that this was a band aid system that didnt address the underlying issues of the xp system.

And i used melee on a healer and the fact that hitting a mob in melee, dealing physical damage, did not level my melee skill.

That one got thrashed to death.

Others mentioned the disparity between character levels, and combat levels and discipline levels.

Instead of addressing how those scale, and how they interact, we got books.

This is just the next step of that progression imo. The underlying factors still remain unaddressed, and thus there will always be a negative feeling once players fully understand the system

grave harness
#

Its just different weapon a md armor lvl that painfull

wide jay
#

I’d say the good news for this is we plan to implement gatherables that give a mechanism to gain some extra xp for those combat skills

Ie kill treehound, chop it, chance to get “resilient bark” > consume for some medium armor xp

#

I think this aligns with what you are looking for:

a way to make decisions to control the speed of leveling alternate skills

#

The other option is just remove the level difference limit and you can farm t3-4 mobs without penalty

molten shell
#

Yea discipline is mostly fine. It's the combat and armor that are the most egregious. I don't think it's as deep as finding optimal routes or what have you. It's just simply unfun.

If I've done this huge grind once, I don't really want to do it again in a game that wants to encourage doing everything on one character. I'm okay with doing a grind again, just not the full grind. Again, some form of catch up exp or what have you would make this feel a lot better.

grave harness
#

Its just not fun to lvl while my character is already 40 because low lvl mobs give no good rewards so its just xp i am getting

wide jay
#

Definitely heard on feeling unfun

In RuneScape, what makes it acceptable to level attack, strength, ranged, and magic separately, each with 100hrs+ to 99?

I guess I’d need to understand the difference between that logic and this so we can identify what should change

#

Perhaps it’s speed to minimum viability?

molten shell
#

I'd say it depends on who you ask. I don't find it fun or acceptable in runescape either.

There's likely a more nuanced answer to that specific question, but in my opinion the goal should be to try and differentiate yourself from RS. It doesn't have to be the same formula, so to speak.

It's as simple as "I've done this once, I'd love to try something else, but it's the same grind all over again and my previous grind is mostly irrelevant". It stifles experimentation and arguably the relic system at large.

That's my opinion anyway.

frail oasis
#

Hence the mention of the underlying tension earlier. Youve summed it up better here, but it has always existed

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I have a question in regard to RS, Ryan.

Do people change their class? Or are they just Bob Jones and can level everything?

wide jay
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We can noodle on the sentiment

First step I’d say is the untradeable consumable flavor items that give a bit of a bump - they should give a rewarding feeling of control to progression

frail oasis
wide jay
wide jay
molten shell
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I have some ideas and thoughts I'd like to give here but I am needed elsewhere. I will reply later though. Appreciate the conversation.

frail oasis
# wide jay Tradeable means xp is buyable, which we wouldn’t do

Fair point.

With regard to ethy, i think there is probably quite a large psychological factor involved in "changing class" and feeling like the same player in game.

One goes from an omnipotent to a fledgling again, but they have psychologically tied their omnipotence to their character thru their discipline

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RS, as I understand it from what you put, doesnt have that psychological barrier.

Im always zorg, just now im using a bow.

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And honestly, the whole, if you want to level melee, play a character with melee abilities is the only way i can sum that feeling up.

I dont want to play a melee toon. But i do want it to be viable to level melee on my chosen class.

RS sounds like it caters to this. Ethyrial 100% does not

wide jay
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Perhaps, but as a classic player, inputting the effort to level results in your reward

Right now the dial is pretty far toward the “you have to put in the time to level up and be able to use the sword”

If I’m an illusionist and want to be a paladin, I would have to increase my proficiency with melee and heavy armor

And since I’m level 40, I kill mobs that are 30 - even if it’s 2x TTK it’s far faster than leveling from 0

And I get the benefit of consumes, wealth, books, enchants, and perhaps even friends running high end content

frail oasis
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But it isnt. Its dictated by my class choice.

wide jay
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Speaking from a class based thought process - your class uses the underlying weapons and armor right?

frail oasis
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I dont understand.

wide jay
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I don’t follow then

frail oasis
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Bugger 🙂

wide jay
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Indeed PepeHands

frail oasis
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Its the comment. You have to put the time in to become the paladin.

I have put a great many hours into using a melee weapon. Due to my original choice of class, moreso than others

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In a game where it is, be anything, do anything. Why should i level melee slower than anyone else just because of my original class choice?

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In essence you are saying to me, its your time spent meleeing which makes you a paladin vs an illusionist.

But i can also spend 100 hours in melee as an illusionist and ill never level my melee skill...

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Because of some arbitrary split of weapon types

wide jay
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So just to understand, how do you want it to work?

frail oasis
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And if i do choose to circumvent that, the only way that makes any sense is to level as a "melee toon" Hence the tension.

My melee skill is almost level 25 without using a single melee ability.

I promise that took a long long time. Whenever i have said to any long time player, go do that, because they give me shit for not playing, their reply is, why would i do that? Thats dumb

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And it is. Its an absolutely heinous waste of time. But i did it to highlight the flaws in the system

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Well. For starts. If i am meleeing, i should level melee skill. Regardless of how my weapon is defined

wide jay
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Certainly you gained melee xp for autos right?

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Are you asking for melee xp from spells?

frail oasis
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To ask me that is truly a piss take. Ill bow out here

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What?

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Hahahaha