https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Rp1w3GqUMl_2oSaMttJt7DsQSPhwZLVc7I1YQCp3Rg/edit#gid=0
Courtesy of @brittle void for the latest updates!
#Weapons And Ammo Stat Sheet v2.5
dawn tangle
distant topaz
“Beholder”?
Oh shit, return of the Harvester coming soon?
distant topaz
Old 1.0 enemy
Basically a BTR that looked like some eldritch abomination and spawned mimics
random tide
I think it was like a truck and a train held together by a giant spider spawn that floated. Had a sphere in it like the core of fragments that you could actually damage and kill. There were two of them in the 1.0 map from what I remember. Also thank you for the stat sheet!
thorny oxide
sounds like actual he’ll
random tide
Wow so I was crunching some numbers and found out there isn't any contest at all for which pistol to use. It's either a case of wanting to have full auto in your pocket or using the M9. Highest damage, best reliability, decent mag size (glock holds 2 more bullets which is not enough to care about really), and every pistol ammo has the same cost per bullet ($6). The M9 does 30 damage per shot while the weakest rifle (sks) does 40 and the glock doing 25. Crazy. Gonna have to check weight next but if the gun and two full mags isn't much more than 1kg difference there's not really any reason to choose anything but the M9.
tiny rivet
Wow so I was crunching some numbers and found out there isn't any contest at all...
Yeah it's kinda universally accepted that the M9 is just objectively better in every way besides the full auto. Like I get some pistols will get power crept as you progressively unlock/find better guns out in the field but I mean, I haven't even used any other pistol besides the PM, TT-33, and M9 because I had already acquired the capability to use the M9 before I had the chance to use any other pistol besides the PM and TT, and the TT I had actually found.
random tide
The fact that 9x19 is the same price as 9x18 is what really breaks it. The OC33 you'd think would have a use case just to pour bullets out because you didn't care about the cost but they're not even cheaper.
dusk owl
I guess that's alright if you're just running FMJ since 9x18 FMJ is incredibly common inside the zone
tiny rivet
Honestly once you get a hold of two decent primaries, the pistol really just serves as an unarmored and spawn killer. My thought process now honestly is possibly switching to the OC-33 simply because it has more ammo coupled with full auto. Takes care of any unarmored fast movers that get too close to you, and if it's a Slider then put that bitch into full auto and let it rip.
My thoughts on pistol use now is really just either as reserve ammo stock against armored targets/weaker enemies with AP, or emergency use against unarmored fast movers with either FMJ or +P.
exotic spindle
Nah it’s a great cost saver as 9x18 and 9x19 are cheap, plus full auto is rather wasteful and mags are cheaper, plus it’s less weight meaning you can loot more. This is prob why the best budget load out for many players is the M9 and Mosin due to their versatility combined as well as damage per shot
brazen escarp
What is bounce max? Also the difference between penetration and armor piercing?
brazen escarp
Curious that the shortened ak74u is not as loud as the full length barrel and even some low caliber pistols are louder than it
tiny rivet
What is bounce max? Also the difference between penetration and armor piercing?
Bullets can ricochet I think, also the difference between the two is one governs your chance of piercing enemy shield (if they have it) while the other I've seen people say is to govern how much damage gets through an enemy's armor. Some variants of mimics wear actual armor it seems, as opposed to the glowing shield thing, and supposedly it absorbs some of the damage from bullets. I forget which one is which.
brazen escarp
Hmm that's interesting, I've not read or seen mention of thag anywhere. Thanks friend
dawn tangle
Weapons And Ammo Stat Sheet v2.3.4
@brittle void I have updated this original post, with regards to you, thank you. :)
brazen escarp
I think the ak dmg value and the ak74 value got switched around @dawn tangle
brittle void
nope
tbh, now that i look at it, it seems they have changed a bunch of the damage values
brazen escarp
That's odd. So the akm and sks that fire the 7.62 does less dmg than the 5.45?
brazen escarp
Hmm I was debating between trying out the akm since I found one as well as an ak74 in the factory but it seems pointless to take the akm now with more recoil and more expensive ammo.
brittle void
its only slightly more expensive, but you can shoot more with the akm
longer between repairs
brazen escarp
Hmmm that's a good point.
Also 7.62 fmj has the %70 penetration chance so you could technically get away with not needing ap
So there are benefits still I suppose
brazen escarp
Been using the akm lately. It's been working well for me.
brazen escarp
Would be nice to have the weight of each weapon in the stat sheet if the author has time, I would but with work and kids/family I barely get enough time to play the game haha.
Nvm just noticed it is in a different page.
limber crypt
Wait a minute PL14, PX4, and a PP2000? What are they?
I dont remember them being in the game
dawn tangle
Thank you.
dawn tangle
It's not mine! :P
copper breach
ooo
dawn tangle
I don't know who's it is lol I think @brittle void
but I requested to be able to make changes when you notice something like that, when accepted, i'll fix those 2. thanks!
brittle void
you can leave comments on specific cells, which i get notifications for
dawn tangle
I'll tell you if I spot anything else :P
just tagging you, for Kuro's response. It is their stat sheet, I was right ;P
brittle void
updated the spreadsheet to patch 2.5
dawn tangle
updated the spreadsheet to patch 2.5
Thanks Kuro! <3
Weapons And Ammo Stat Sheet v2.5
dawn tangle
updated the spreadsheet to patch 2.5
Can you rename the Google doc to v2.5?
dusk owl
Time to quickly copy all this to the wiki and push that 
Also would you have any idea how to work out the durability for mags? 👀
I feel from what I'd saw I'd need to do some maths to get an idea without hopping in game and shooting a million bullets
brittle void
yeah you have to do some maths
the maths i did for the guns durabilities is uncertain at best as i dont know the actual calculation
so i wouldnt publish it anywhere
its more of a guess than facts
dusk owl
Yeah I noticed the little notes on the spreadsheet saying you weren't confident in them, so I'm a bit unsure how to go about with the durability sections of the wiki besides just shooting all the guns in the shooting range and saying how long they all last which would be time consuming, especially in the case of mags but I feel I shouldn't go removing them since some mag descriptions mention the short ones lasting longer
brittle void
each mag has this "DurabilityDamagePerAmmo" value
short mags have a higher value
nearly every item has a Durability of 100 and then this is reduced by some value every use/shot
and all mags have this "DamageToReliabilityDebonus" of 0.3
dusk owl
My lack of maths skills coming to bite me on the ass yet again 
thanks for that info I'll try to figure out their durability shortly
brittle void
couldnt find any equation that looked right myself
i added a magazine page to the doc, so you can have a go yourself
dusk owl
Thanks, I doubt I'll get far seeing how maths was always my weak point and teachers never bothered to help with that :P But it'll be fun to try and figure out
brittle void
if you feel like testing just a few of the mags in game and leaving a note on the doc, that would help me know what values im aiming for with the calculations
dusk owl
Sounds like a solid plan, I'll hop into the shooting range shortly and try out a few
brittle void
you can check an items durability with the save editor if you wanna be super precise
dusk owl
That's a great idea, I'll get onto that now 👀
brittle void
shoot one bullet, make a note, then a full mag etc
i would, but its almost 3am where i am
dusk owl
Yeah that's fair, I'll put the notes I get down for a few mags on the spreadsheet for you to check out tomorrow
restive cedar
i added a magazine page to the doc, so you can have a go yourself
shit I thought that came out of nowhere
AUG seems to have a really high velocity number
brittle void
its correct
restive cedar
mm. maybe because it's shooting 556 out of a longer barrel?
thats 3180 ft/s, doable in 5.56
brittle void
i assume its a way to balance awkward bullpup handling
restive cedar
thats way in line with reality
nevermind
but it's an smg
it only hass full auto
brittle void
aug is not an smg
brittle void
ah rip
dusk owl
Sucks because that sounded like the most useful tool for this
brittle void
unfortunately Kesha isnt very active atm, hopefully he returns
lilac nest
IRL, yes.
Aug behaves as real life, half pulling the trigger is semi auto, full pull is auto
dusk owl
Interesting side note, mags keep working even at 1%
And don't jam at all if the gun is kept in good shape
I feel their durability doesn't matter as long as you shove toilet paper down the barrel between engagments 
but I'll post the numbers when I get back
dusk owl
@brittle void I return with results for the AKM long mag, but again a mag's durability seems to mean nothing if the gun durability is kept high enough so I didn't bother with the short mag seeing how it's meant to have higher durability meaning even more time shooting and reloading 
when it doesn't jam or anything
31: 94%
61: 88%
91: 82%
121: 77%
151: 71%
181: 65%
211: 59%
241: 54%
271: 48%
301: 42%
331: 37%
361: 31%
391: 25%
421: 20%
451: 14%
481: 8%
511: 2%
516: 1% (wanted to shoot 5 more to hit 1%)
Nothing after makes a difference durability wise and no jams recorded```turns out there is no complex calculation
its just Durability /Durability Damage Per Ammo
dusk owl
Nice also because I see you're filling out the spreadsheet I don't know if I needed the 5 extra to hit 1% or anything between it and the 511'th shot
brittle void
how did you get the durability numbers btw?
dusk owl
I just did 5 to be on the safer side
Just kept chucking the mag in the repair bin to see % between reloads and kept repairing the gun so it wouldn't affect anything related to the mag
dusk owl
Though the catch is it seems the shooting range wont tell you that info so I had to just sell off a bunch of my guns to afford a ton of ammo and test in the shop
brittle void
weird
dusk owl
And I only did semi auto but I doubt it changes much with the mags
brittle void
but thanks for doing it
dusk owl
Always happy to get more info from the game! though I don't think I'll do it again really unless I notice full auto changes the degradation speed since it'll be faster to get through
brittle void
it does for the gun i know that for sure, i wouldnt think that it would affect the mag
dusk owl
Yeah I feel that's the case though I'll check again tomorrow while testing other things for the wiki but I doubt I'll have anything to come back here with
brittle void
let me know if there is other data/info you need, i can go rooting around in the files for it
dusk owl
Thanks, it'll be a ton of help since you're much more familiar with this sort of stuff, I'll chuck you a ping if I come across anything
Curious the AKM short mag seems to have so much less durability when the advantage is meant to be durability
dusk owl
That's a fair point, seems to be the case
brittle void
ppsh drum is kinda tragic
dusk owl
The devs pulling every trick they can to discourage leaning on it to carry through the game
I guess a sign we wouldn't see larger mags of the sort for rifles like some people want
brittle void
i played nearly the entire game with akm, switched to svd for castle and the end of kolkhoz
dusk owl
Same here for the most part, kept the 74 for the longest time since I got it and could've happily finished with the SVD or VSS when I had enough of it
brittle void
did you see they changed deagle to 100 damage a shot, wild
dusk owl
I hadn't yet 👀 I saw Darius mentioned increased damage earlier but 100 is insane
brittle void
and with crit multiplier i bet it could one shot all non armored enemies
dusk owl
I might need to give it a go, always been fond of the M9 for it's damage
This sounds like the real hand cannon
dusk owl
I can respect liking it but I've really fallen for the M9
Though that deagle is tempting me now
dusk owl
Just a question of more rounds vs more damage per round
I guess a lot like the OC-33 vs M9 debates come down to when talking semi auto
dusk owl
Same here in both versions of the game, feel a bit bad for that :P
I know it's always had velocity as it's perk
brittle void
i would say that the m9 is the best sidearm, when you take into account it has better damage/dollar to combat its slightly lower damage/mag than the oc
but i prefer oc
because i can miss more shots
which is important with blurry as rift cv1
dusk owl
I can definitely appreciate the OC as a weapon, I used it as my primary back in 1.0 so I can relate on the low res of the CV1 being a concern
strange parcel
dusk owl
It'd say it likely is, when I used it in my M9 it took a few shots to down a fragment or something of the sort which would be the case with FMJ
dawn tangle
I honestly thought SS had a negative damage multiplier lol
mortal loom
TT-33 bullet velocity is now 42000? Wasn't it 73500 before?
brittle void
it was, they lowered it with patch 2.4 iirc
mortal loom
it was, they lowered it with patch 2.4 iirc
Wasn't that its main advantage? What even is the point now
brittle void
its the most cost effective pistol
and it still has the highest muzzle velocity of all the pistols
mortal loom
Tied with the PM in cost effectiveness 💀💀💀
brazen escarp
Hmmm. I never used it either way, prefer the glock or any other 9x18 except pm actually.
Was more of a weapon for if I die to get back to get my better weapons.
dusk owl
And velocity takes a hit too
An extreme one for 5.56x45 👀
But also 10% lower damage in the case of that bullet size too
brazen escarp
Does anyone actually use ss ammo though? Outside of roleplaying I don't think it's worth it.
The only area I can think of it being remotely useful because of extra enemies being close enough to join the fight is kolkhoz, but it's also made useless as alot of enemies there are armored
So the only place I would consider using it it's actually detrimental lol
kindred falcon
Not really. A suppressor works fine for stealth, and ss does less damage than fmj, so it will cost you more long run
dusk owl
Yeah I generally consider it a rubbish round in most cases myself but I enjoy there's the option
Though one bullet that stood out to me was 7.62x39 SS 👀
Unless I made a mistake it actually has fairly good stats, velocity aside and is the cheapest of the bullets in that size
kindred falcon
Does anyone know what mods deagle has?
dusk owl
Recoil -20% ($750)
Accuracy +10% ($550)```It comes with a B and S rails stock so it doesn't need upgrades for any attachments
I've updated all the gun pages on the wiki if you need any attachment or upgrade info
kindred falcon
Thanks
restive cedar
Does anyone actually use ss ammo though? Outside of roleplaying I don't think it...
308 subs seem like they could be good. really quiet down the round while still keeping 90% damage, but only 70% AP chance. Being used to 9x39, the bullet velocity still seems useable at 33,400 (VSS is 29,000 )
restive cedar
Did some basic formatting on the price/ weight sheet. I'll pretty it up some more when I have time.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kyLLhVDKxLzE5nNJnpdt9OwOVTF5D-hoOGG6d2_zgu8/edit?usp=sharing
dusk owl
👀
That'll make my life a ton easier if I don't want to scrub through the videos I did of looking at the shop or if I need to find something not found in the shop
brittle void
Did some basic formatting on the price/ weight sheet. I'll pretty it up some mor...
It's definitely easier to read, only thing I'll add is that the reason its the way it is, is because that's the order the items are listed in the game files and so it easier to skim through and update/look for changes
restive cedar
That's what I figured. Guess it could be added as a seperate page. Price/weight human readable and p/w raw maybe?
How come sell prices aren't all extracted?
brittle void
some arent listed
the games uses an equation to figure out default value, and only override values are in listed in the game files
mortal loom
Is it just me or does the spreadsheet not have +P penetration %
dusk owl
Is it just me or does the spreadsheet not have +P penetration %
+P is 70% across the board last I checked
It is mentioned but hidden away
mortal loom
I see, thanks
brittle void
its listed in the Ammo sheet of the spreadsheet
mortal loom
It bothers me discord doesn't have a "jump to top" option
dawn tangle
It bothers me discord doesn't have a "jump to top" option
Great suggestion. Now on, just click the pinned messages to go to the top. :)
mortal loom
Can someone explain why MP5 and PPSH have worse damage/$ for +P than M9 and TT33 despite having same or more damage per +P round?
Cost per mag for MP5 also doesn't make sense
brittle void
Cost per mag for MP5 also doesn't make sense
why doesnt mp5 cost per mag make sense?
but yeah the pistol HP mag cost numbers were using the AP values so they were wrong
fixed now
mortal loom
why doesnt mp5 cost per mag make sense?
MP5 has 30 ammo, which is double M9 15 mag, so it should be double the price but instead it's 3x the price
Oh but you fixed m9 cost so it's good
brittle void
ah right because the pistol mag cost was using the wrong values
mortal loom
Thank you kurorai
mortal loom
TT33 FMJ dmg/$ is same as M9 FMJ even tho they do same damage per shot and 9x19 FMJ is more expensive than 7.62x25 FMJ?
brittle void
they cost the same
mortal loom
Am I misreading something? Is the wiki wrong?
dusk owl
Wiki is correct, I've gone into the game and checked the prices on normal mode during 2.5.1
Need to grab the security levels and chuck those on too today
I think it was Ezoni? who mentioned it should also list the prices for easy and hard modes which it currently doesn't as I need to think of a tidy way of doing that because I think there's 5 steps of difficulty that affect pricing
brittle void
im using the price for single bullets, not boxes. As the the bullets arent normally available for sale they may not be priced to reflect the cost of the box
ill have to derive the price of single bullets from boxes, but thats a job for another time
brittle void
ok the sheet is updated to use the price of each bullet averaged from both the small and big box