#Feedback on new combat footage

8 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

full adder
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Thoughts on the New Combat Gameplay

To start off – a huge thanks to the devs! You really went to town, and it never ceases to amaze me how seriously you take feedback and suggestions from the community. GR is looking more and more like the game we all hoped for.

Yet, we wouldn’t be true Gothic fans if we didn’t find something to nitpick. So here we go. These are my thoughts, impressions, opinions, fears, and suggestions based on the recent combat gameplay.

Spoilers: I really liked it!

General Impressions

I won’t give too much feedback on most things and will focus mainly on one hot topic that came up. That said, I also have some questions and comments about other aspects.

I liked all the new features that make gameplay smoother: easier blocking, dodging, a better camera, and better animations overall. It looks so much better – snappy and fun! The 2H master animation is chef’s kiss. Combat looks more responsive and satisfying. Honestly, it’s hard to even find something to complain about.

Only some minor things:

  1. Sound
  • Partly buggy – I assume this will be fixed. Some sounds are missing or don’t quite fit, especially for blocked hits (no metallic sound when blocking or hitting a monster, for example).
  • Too much groaning from the hero. Some is fine, but he does it on almost every strike. Maybe decrease the frequency, or replace some of the groans with heavy, pressed breathing instead – think of the sound a boxer makes when hitting a heavy bag.
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  1. Animations

Nothing at all to complain about in what I’ve seen so far. It looks so good.

I just hope that this new snappiness and responsiveness permeates all of combat, not just master 2H. Master 1H should be even faster, or at least just as fast and snappy.

I also hope that the slow wind-up / input lag / slow animation start has been removed from intermediate skills as well.

One small thing: maybe dial back the ragdoll effects a bit. They seemed really strong – big, heavy orc dogs getting thrown around like a squirrel after being hit looked a bit over the top.

One Major Thing: The Knockdown

My biggest pet peeve: the knockdown ability.

I think this can be a fun feature, especially helpful in group fights. BUT we have to do it right. It’s all about smart implementation. Here I really think less is more.

Best-case scenario

A fair, well-balanced feature that allows for satisfying combo finishers, helps you out in group fights, or even gets your ass kicked against tougher opponents if you mess up.

Worst-case scenario

An easy-to-abuse mechanic to beat opponents way out of your league, or something that makes the whole combat system revolve around getting a knockdown:

  • Stun-locking any opponent with repeated knockdowns
  • Or the reverse: you getting stun-locked constantly, being forced to watch Bezi trapped in a painfully slow getting-up animation, unable to do anything

Why It Could Feel Frustrating

The “getting up after being knocked down” part locks you into an animation. A whole ~2 seconds pass while you have no control over your character whatsoever.

Just like the old slow combat with long windups that locked you into animations (and which seems to be fixed now), this makes you feel like you’re not really in control of your character. That’s a frustrating feeling as a player and should be avoided.

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The positive side:
It really makes you pay attention to combat and prevents you from mindlessly spam-clicking and blind button-mashing like in G3 (or like Reinhard at Gamescom). So a little bit of knockdown is actually much appreciated. I bet it also feels super satisfying to land a clean combo and oomph your opponent to the ground.
My Ideas for the Knockdown feature:

First of all: never make a knockdown guaranteed (no 100% chance at the end of each combo).

Instead, make it chance-/percentage-based, depending on several factors. Maybe tune it between a minimum and maximum chance, for example something like 20–60%, depending on:

  1. Strength
  • The higher your Strength, the higher your chance to knock down.
  • Or: Strength in relation to the opponent’s Strength.

The higher your Strength compared to theirs, the higher your chance to knock them down (and vice versa).
This would also allow you to scale your own Strength to increase your chances of resisting enemy knockdowns.

Examples:

Two high-Strength characters dueling would have a balanced effect and a medium chance to knock each other down.
You hitting some poor little digger while having 100 Strength should make a knockdown very likely.
Challenging Thorus right after entering the colony should mean a very high chance of you getting knocked down.

  1. Skill

Same logic as Strength:

The higher your weapon skill, especially relative to your opponent’s, the higher your chance to cause a knockdown – and the lower your chance to be knocked down.

  1. Weapon Type

I remember that huge warhammer from Gamescom. This slow but heavy-hitting weapon should compensate its slower speed and animation with a higher knockdown chance.

Something like:

Hammers: highest knockdown chance
Axes: medium
Swords: lowest (but still a chance)

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  1. Dexterity

Two possible uses:

Make Dexterity a factor in resisting knockdowns, or
Let Dexterity reduce the time it takes to get up from knockdown (even though the default get-up speed should already be fast enough to avoid frustration!).

  1. Armor

Heavier, better armor = more resistance to being knocked down.

  1. Animals

For animals, it would make sense to factor in their size and strength:

I do not want to be ragdolled around by a goblin.
A Shadowbeast, on the other hand… fair enough.

  1. Acrobatics

I think this was mentioned before somewhere, but:

Acrobatics could also increase the speed of the “getting up” animation, or even change it into a faster, more agile animation once the skill is learned.
This would make Acrobatics more important and useful for something beyond just jumping higher and farther.

  1. Cooldown

Do not allow two knockdowns in a row on the same target in quick succession.
Add a cooldown window after a successful knockdown (maybe reduced with higher skill) to avoid frustration and abuse.
Again, Nnobody likes stun-locks.

  1. Remaining Life

The less life you (or the enemy) have left, the higher the chance to be knocked down, while full health protects you to a certain degree.

  1. Number of Hits in the Combo

Maybe require at least one other successful hit in the combo before a knockdown can trigger.
This would prevent situations where you attack from afar, hit air with the first hits and the first contact already acts as the finisher that instantly knocks the enemy down.

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Closing Thoughts

Again, these are just my ideas and worries. I only know about the mechanic from a ~10-second clip, so some of this might already be implemented.

If being in this Discord has taught me anything, it’s that the devs are the best and really take our feedback to heart. I went from being worried about the fun and playability of the remake to being eager for you to just:

TAKE MY DAMN MONEY AND LET ME PLAY!

Anyway, that’s it from my side.
Peace out, and thank you!

Alles wird gut!

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PS: Some of the factors determining knockdown chance could also be applied to determine the stagger chance after a succesful parry.

civic skiff
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Would be nice if acrobatics allowed to do a roll instead of being knocked down, if you press the jump key during the first half of the knockdown animation.

mellow geyser
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Thank you for the list of feedback! It will be super useful =)