Graphics General

[scarlet gust]

By the way, the new DLSS update uses FP8 acceleration, which my RTX 3080 16GB 150W does not have, so DLSS runs slightly worse now

[tribal trail]

that is not dlss blurring

That is mipmap

[rancid seal]

Fr

[tribal trail]

You never needed dlss swapper, you could just replace dlss files yourself

Your opinion is wrong

Heightmaps don’t work well in high resolution anyways

It literally does

Textures are broken but it does technically work

You can turn it on

And it „works”

[tribal trail]

That preview also fixes issue for me with poor performance

Partially

I get now 90 fps. I was expecting a bit more but it’s much better compared to to 50 I was getting

[scarlet gust]

Mipmapping genuinely sucks

[tribal trail]

In rtx yeah sure

But in vv it’s important

Just because your one pack doesn’t work with mipmap doesn’t mean it’s bad. World doesn’t revolve around you

[willow needle]

Bamboo block side

[scarlet gust]

It's not my resource pack that doesn't work with mipmapping. It's @graceful iron's gaming RGB sea lanterns resource pack.

[wise hinge]

no need to ping him

[scarlet gust]

I think I ping people too often

Even when not necessary

[scarlet gust]

Why is it important in Vibrant Visuals?

[limpid sequoia]

10th cloud

[scarlet gust]

Why is mipmapping important in Vibrant Visuals?

Just wondering

[limpid sequoia]

i don't care about it anymore

[rancid seal]

By the way, it was not possible to disable mipmapping in that case.

[scarlet gust]

This should force disable mipmapping.

[rancid seal]

Lmao, im not the owner of mob maze

Server disables global resources

And you want me to enable the addon wth

[tribal trail]

I meant your as a resoircepack that you are using

[tribal trail]

There is no antialiasing in vv and no mipmap makes it even worse

[tribal trail]

It won’t on servers

[willow needle]

Mossy cobblestone

[scarlet gust]

I hope Mojunk will add DLAA support to Vibrant Visuals.

[willow needle]

I want to make VL clouds :v

Better 256x

[scarlet gust]

Why are you manually drawing clouds

Default clouds are fine

(In my opinion)

[limpid sequoia]

manually?

i used Perlin Noise

[limpid sequoia]

i got u

[willow needle]

Better to ask :v

[limpid sequoia]

i want it too

:V

[scarlet gust]

Perlin noise works pretty well, but doesn't Minecraft already have cloud textures?

[blazing whale]

Just try make custom clouds

[limpid sequoia]

i see that, but i don't like it

everything has it time and it have to change

like i have a high bridge S-line nose but i will change it in the future

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

I hate that rtx clouds are fully affected by render distance, and cannot be seen from huge distance if you don't make render distance bigger then 24 chunks.

Im currently working on add-on that makes clouds realistic in rtx, the situation is even worse, but I still can do smth

[scarlet gust]

I need this addon

My clouds look like trash

[rancid seal]

Will be ready very soon

[scarlet gust]

Z-fighting and everything

[rancid seal]

Becuase I haven't made custom clouds logics yet

Models are not ready to tho

[rancid seal]

Huh

[willow needle]

Sunset

[limpid sequoia]

smooth

[willow needle]

Thank for support

[limpid sequoia]

my pleasure!

Fathers, Sister in my church always teaching me that

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

Mushroom Island

[polar comet]

Is there any way to disable autoexposure for my pack?

[limpid sequoia]

u can edit in internal config mate

[polar comet]

where?

[limpid sequoia]

in renderer folder

find average_luminance

[polar comet]

thanks

how do we turn on point lights? I think we used to have render dragon experiments but that's gone now

[silent zealot]

Are you in Preview?

[polar comet]

Oh they're not in stable?

[silent zealot]

Nope.

[polar comet]

sad

[white willow]

That's mipmapping dawg 💀

Nothing to do with DLSS

[limpid sequoia]

yasss

[blazing whale]

yasss

[limpid sequoia]

[pale urchin]

Surprised no one has been talking here since the update

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

3 RTX bugs fixed

[wise hinge]

fog keyframe :3

[pale urchin]

can't wait to see Quirky use it. He's been asking for it for a while

[white willow]

with how little time i get, i may not have much to share for a bit but if i do anything, ill be sure to send. im quite excited for the potential with nighttime

[sonic canopy]

It's too bad fog keyframes only apply to VV related fields, it would've bee cool to have keyframes for fancy graphics as well

[vivid bolt]

They can also be used in RTX though

[tribal trail]

do we know if keyframes work with RTX?

[vivid bolt]

The same volumetric fog settings are used with RTX, and the changelog didn't say anything about graphics modes, so why not

[pale urchin]

actually, if graphics mode wasn't a limit, then wouldn't it mean it could work in fancy/simple too?

oh wait, no

the keyframes only apply to volumetric properties

[rancid seal]

I wonder if it works for rtx or not. I mean I think its not, but if it does, would be 100% good

[rancid seal]

I think you know vv well. Can you use keyframes with sun angle in vv?

[vivid bolt]

Yes 👍

[rancid seal]

Rtx was able to read vv sun configs in the past, sunlight angle was not changing tho, only sun texture pos. So idk, maybe we can use keyframes

RTX also is able to use fancy graphics and flashes, the only reason they exist in rtx as end sun

[vivid bolt]

It looks so good

[cedar pumice]

A bit extreme but we ball

[pale urchin]

animated fog in RTX

[rancid seal]

WHAT

It works or is that an illusion?

[vivid bolt]

Well illusioners don't exist in Bedrock so it just works

[rancid seal]

So, keyframed fog works in RTX, isn't it?

[rancid seal]

Can you give me the resource pack so I can test it rq?

[vivid bolt]

(plains biomes only)

[rancid seal]

yeah, now I need to download the preview, what a wonderful day

[quick beacon]

Lowkey a huge fan of keyframed vol fog. Waited ages for this

[rancid seal]

You can also use it with RTX... Although atlas issue is still not fixed :((

[languid mirage]

What did they fix?

[languid mirage]

Huge.

Now we can have beautiful thick fog during early mornings and little to none - during noon.

[rancid seal]

Not a lot actually, items something, snow golems something, and crashing something. And they added keyfraamed fogs which work in rtx

Keyframed fog showcase rtx

Beta version of my fogs, I did them in 5 minutes

Actually, using those fogs is absolutely insane! I always had troubles with making ambience good using not keyframed fog

[quick beacon]

Since when were water block shadows removed from VV?

[rancid seal]

RTX revenge

[tribal trail]

ages ago

[quick beacon]

Guess I never paid that much attention to it

[willow needle]

Nice, I want to try the fog keyframe too later.

[scarlet gust]

You forgot about the DLSS update.

Minecraft Preview uses DLSS 310.5.3 instead of DLSS 2.1.16.

So four RTX issues were fixed.

[willow needle]

Implementation of keyframe fogs in Strawberry Deferred V4.0 Rewrite

1. Time set 0

2. Time set day

3.Time set 12500

[willow needle]

I like that Mojang added support for keyframes on fogs, but maybe later it can be improved how the nature of clouds that should be able to adjust to the light (not solid) instead looks like a solid block.

[willow needle]

because in fancy and simple mode the clouds can adjust to the light

[scarlet gust]

9 clouds? Nine Circles? Holy Geometry Dash reference

Sorry for bad video quality

[limpid sequoia]

14th already

I've spent my day just for cloud

[scarlet gust]

That's a lot of clouds

[limpid sequoia]

yes

[brave schooner]

That's impressive I like how mojang added a new update to the Volumetric Fog Configuration for the new KeyFrame Feature.

[brave schooner]

RIP My speaker

[brave schooner]

Will there be DLLS 4 or DLSS 4.5?

[wind pollen]

Wowwww

[limpid sequoia]

the last cloud

[white willow]

310.5 is DLSS 4.5

Naming is weird but any DLSS titled 310.x is DLSS 4

[limpid sequoia]

i tried and it doesn't works

in latest preview

[limpid sequoia]

From /time set 11000 to 18000

[scarlet gust]

Ray Tracing eXtreme Texture Atlas eXtreme

[quick beacon]

I haven't sent these before, but I am really happy we can tweak fog for night time as well

[rancid seal]

Dlss was updated in the previous preview, wasn't it?

[rancid seal]

And we can also count keyframed fogs as something new in rtx.

[rancid seal]

By the way, can you change the moon colour in vv?

[quick beacon]

Yeah

[rancid seal]

Oh, makes sence. I've been struggling to change moon colour in rtx without making sky ugly (and I failed)

Pretty sad I cannot actually make sky darker in rtx without making moon look ugly at the same time

[rancid seal]

*3

Dlss update was not in this preview

[limpid sequoia]

hmmm

clouds shading

that's my 25th clouds

[rancid seal]

Still working on keyframed fogs

They are insane

[limpid sequoia]

[willow needle]

Work?

[limpid sequoia]

yes!

[wind pollen]

"𝕎𝕠𝕨𝕨𝕨𝕨𝕨𝕨𝕨"

[limpid sequoia]

😊😊😊

[severe grove]

Is making Depth Of Field possible in Vibrant Visual?

[limpid sequoia]

u can try to use ReShade

[severe grove]

Where do i get that?

[limpid sequoia]

https://reshade.me/

[severe grove]

Tyyy

[willow needle]

keyframe fog density + scattering + absorption

[severe grove]

Wait

How to Install it?

On phone?

[limpid sequoia]

i thought u asked for Windows

[severe grove]

Bruh

[limpid sequoia]

:v

[severe grove]

Lol im using phone rn and my pc doesn't have Mc

[limpid sequoia]

i see

[sonic canopy]

Then the only answer is custom shaders

[willow needle]

just try create custom shader RD

[severe grove]

What app should i use?

To make a VV Pack?

[willow needle]

vv pack not a shaders

[severe grove]

Ik, but i can't make a shader because if i make it i can't use it because i on a beta version and MB loader didn't support beta version. So i can't test my own shader

[willow needle]

@limpid sequoia

[limpid sequoia]

huh

[willow needle]

this

[rancid seal]

Keyframes on fogs are insaane

[wind pollen]

Twilight.....

[limpid sequoia]

so what can i help u

[severe grove]

Nothing, but thanks for the explanation. VV has so much limitation lol

[limpid sequoia]

you're welcome

[rancid seal]

Continuing testing some stuff idk

[limpid sequoia]

[blazing whale]

Rtx sader

[limpid sequoia]

rtex sadar 🗿

[blazing whale]

Actually, VV is now gradually starting to develop and there is also the addition of keyframe support for fogs, which means it is no longer too rigid, you can also freely experiment with any theme you like as long as there are no additional elements of GI, refraction, etc. related to custom shaders.

[rancid seal]

Sunset

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

Ultra RTX sadar
Ultra TAX sadar

[limpid sequoia]

haha

[rancid seal]

Terrain atlas extreme

[limpid sequoia]

[inland vault]

[still zenith]

RTX atlas issue has been fixed and will be in the next preview. Sorry about that one. 😅

"One does not simply remove the tile padding from an atlas texture" - Boromir

[rancid seal]

Shader code was touched, wasn't it?

Anyways, still pretty good.

[silk badge]

What about the regular atlas issue

I should probably make a mojira post at some point

[still zenith]

Eh, more like shader code was not touched when it should have been. We changed how UVs for the terrain are encoded and removed the padding around all tiles in the atlas. (75% of pixels in the atlas previously went to padding) But, we didn't update RTX to account for the new coordinate structure. 🙃

Heightmap seams and other bugs have been fallout from that core change to the atlas

[polar comet]

Can we make an entity not emit shadows/not block light?

[rancid seal]

That's kinda sad.

[karmic owl]

This is fantastic!! ❤️ I really wish the most-voted RTX issues on Mojira were paid a bit of attention to as well...

A while ago I compiled a list and put on here, it included some of the most voted issues, and some that had lost their hundreds of votes because of Mojira migration (ancient yet critical issues that are left behind/being forgotten, but still pain users)

The list was here if anyone's interested in taking a look, LMK if I've missed something.

[rancid seal]

The good thing that issues are being fixed in general for now. The amount of RTX fixes got increased suddenly

[karmic owl]

I think the only new item to add is marketplace RTX worlds being completely broken.

We're supposed to be able to use them, I personally miss them!

All because of a NoPBR tag I heard of

[rancid seal]

PBR system is absolutely destroyed because of Vibrant visuals

[karmic owl]

Mojang could enable PBR on entities with no issues for RTX.
There was a glitch iirc, it was working well!

Missed opportunities everywhere!

[rancid seal]

Minecraft refuses to load PBR if Vibrant visuals is disabled. All marketplace maps have vv disabled by default, including RTX ones :(

[karmic owl]

Some of VV's data driven rp files could also help RTX. They work.

The isolation is completely arbitrary.

[rancid seal]

Unfortunatelly, it looks like RTX never had entity PBR support added properely? RTX can only accept values for enttity PBR, not the entire maps. Also, iirc RTX doesn't load those values by default, so to use them, you at least need to change shader code.

[karmic owl]

Could at the very least enable it on blocks held by the player, minimal changes required. Existing PBR pipeline works.

[rancid seal]

Also, recently we got keyframed fogs, that also work in RTX. Of course, they were added for vv, but they work in RTX. I hope it never gets patched, because it was not said in changelog that this thing was made for vv specifically

[rancid seal]

That would be good for sure. I am very sad this bug was patched :(

[karmic owl]

That'd be insulting! Haha.

[rancid seal]

And also I like "end flashes" in RTX. They were never added properly to RTX, so it is basically just a decoration, as this thing emits 0 light 😭

-# Using custom end flash texture on that screenshot

That's how they look like by default

[primal girder]

rip atlas tracing

[half nacelle]

Paper X Slightly visually stone

[half nacelle]

Fog keyframes? Does that exist?

[half nacelle]

I'm trying to do it via JS.

[half nacelle]

Btw everyone already knows, so I'm not going to talk about it anymore

[half nacelle]

Why y'all have to wait for Mojang to hand everything over on a silver platter gys?

[half nacelle]

u can make a black hole by duplicating that.

[half nacelle]

With a black version and an inline version "crushing" the circle.

Btw it's possible to do this in a better way for The End as a particle; this is only for the game's standard emission.

[willow needle]

Nope

[rancid seal]

Duplicating what lmao

[half nacelle]

I was just replying to someone, goated Discord gys

[rancid seal]

Another person who has 99+ pings 🥀

[half nacelle]

Ya

I don't see all of my servers.

[rancid seal]

I always have 0 pings moment

[silk badge]

Youd say this be one of them

[rancid seal]

Are those custom blocks or what? Just wondering

I see I don't have to say "just wondering", becuase people always start ignoring me after I say those two words wth

[quasi trench]

flatstone lol

glued to the grass with dawn dish soap

[silk badge]

Custom blocks

[woven mauve]

The above reports Minecraft's generated normals from heightmaps are 196×196, but somewhere else I read said 192×192, anyone happen to know the exact resolution of generated normals from heightmaps?

[iron moon]

Are you using the same normal map on every texture?

[rich sorrel]

My own vibrant visual pack, btw I made my pack inspired by rtx bedrock

[scarlet gust]

I'm banned from that server that you forwarded that from.

[willow needle]

I make it different, but if the texture is a variation of the same block I change it in some parts (so it's not the same).

[jagged badge]

This does not surprise me in the slightest

[willow needle]

I hope that with this explanation as creators we can appreciate other people's methods in making PBR 🙏

[severe grove]

Gimme some idea to do in Minecraft. Idk what should i do in Minecraft

[limpid sequoia]

Building

[severe grove]

What building should i make?

[limpid sequoia]

Medival house of course

[severe grove]

Aight i'll make it

[limpid sequoia]

[quasi trench]

pretty

[limpid sequoia]

Hand drawing for metal parts

🥲

[willow needle]

you can use selection box tool

[limpid sequoia]

thanks for your tip^^

[willow needle]

and i'm using paint net :v

[limpid sequoia]

i'm using GIMP

[willow needle]

nice

[limpid sequoia]

[hallow garden]

Hello, i am new to creating particles and using snowstorm, i am wondering how do i create a emitter that is a single point, then the particles it emits go in a upward spiral direction while expanding outwards like a downward facing drill

[severe grove]

What is your VV pack

Can i get it?

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

thanks a lot

[dense elm]

Beautiful

[limpid sequoia]

[wise hinge]

[rancid seal]

Good job mate

[limpid sequoia]

thank you mate

[rancid seal]

Love taiga villages stuff

[limpid sequoia]

[tribal trail]

that looks nice

i like the sky

[rancid seal]

Lmao people told me the sky was ugly when I made it blue like that in rtx what the heck

[rancid seal]

Taiga villages are cool

[tribal trail]

I didn't

[blazing whale]

never argue about the creator's artistic references

[limpid sequoia]

yeah

[rancid seal]

(I hope) but it is just funny

[tribal trail]

I like arguing about creators artistic preferences

well not always

when they are shitty i like doing that

[rancid seal]

Blue sky something something

[blazing whale]

Appreciate every creator's idea, it's much better (even if you don't agree with it yourself)

[rancid seal]

It was even more blue in Minecraft trailer

Minecraft trailer is cool

Idk ill just post some stuff from my trailer rtx rp

[tribal trail]

why?

[limpid sequoia]

“When pride cometh, then cometh shame:
but with the lowly is wisdom.”

[blazing whale]

Nah i like it

Coloring

[limpid sequoia]

[severe grove]

Did someone see something wrong with my Manifest.json?

Cause this the result when i try to import it

[inland vault]

The main issue is likely your min_engine_version. You have it set to [1, 26, 10], but looking at your game screen, you are on version 26.20.24 (or similar). Minecraft won't import a pack that claims it needs a version from the future!

[severe grove]

But before i setting the mainfest, it was the same min engine and it working. The problem is i made this pack for Emissive entity for VV. But the pack isn't support VV (the VV button grey out so i can use VV), so i try to modificate something like description, adding "capabilities": [
"pbr"

[wise hinge]

i think a bracket is missing after "pbr"
] < this

[severe grove]

So i need to add ]

[severe grove]

Use space or not?

[inland vault]

It looks like adding the capabilities section is what broke the formatting. In your screenshot, you are missing a closing square bracket ] and a closing curly bracket } at the very end of the file.

[wise hinge]

whichever ig

[severe grove]

Like this?

@inland vault

[wise hinge]

something is missing

[wise hinge]

add } in the last line

[severe grove]

Worked well

Smiliar

[limpid sequoia]

[wise hinge]

[severe grove]

Even tho this is my expectation:

[wise hinge]

[severe grove]

Thank you so much bro

[limpid sequoia]

you're welcome

[severe grove]

That's what i want, but at least it look good

[true tree]

what shaderis this?

[wind pollen]

Vibrant Realism PBR + Custom Skybox

[wind pollen]

Very vibranttttttt

[brave star]

I mean, its vibrant visuals

[limpid sequoia]

[quick beacon]

I was taking a nap when you sent this but thank you!

I'm happy with the sky right now but I might tweak it a little bit

[brave star]

i feel like its too blue, but thats just up to downloader's preference

[quick beacon]

I mean yeah. It's a bit too blue. I'm happy with the horizon, but I might just make the sky a bit lighter along with making the horizon a tiny bit lighter

[brave star]

did you show that?

[quick beacon]

Not yet. I am still considering it

[tribal trail]

imo that deep blue works amazing with overall lightning

oh, i think i forgot tot turn off the ping

sorry

[quick beacon]

The sky by itself has a pretty big impact on world lighting. The sky's like really important

If it looks bad, then everything could or will look bad

[quick beacon]

This image I think uses vanilla's sky color with low sky intensity

[brave star]

im fine with being pinged during a convo

[quick beacon]

Ping pong

[brave star]

looking at it again, and not just the sky, I guess you are right

[quick beacon]

I mean it does help with water too. This uses the same sky and it makes the water surface blue, but not sure if I like how blue the water surface is. It's really hard to tell based on 1 image

I just wish underwater fog could be fixed 😔

[brave star]

personally I don't like when water is super blue

[fluid holly]

that blue is perfect imo most other packs have a very washed out blue but irl the sky can be that blue esp during summer

[brave star]

preference

just personally wouldn't like that, realistic doesnt always mean better imo

[languid mirage]

definitely a little on the darker side. but overall looks great

[scarlet gust]

Ignore the terrible mipmapping config

That's the server's fault

[severe grove]

Breeze

[limpid sequoia]

u did it

[severe grove]

Thanks

[deft cradle]

Need to try some of yall vv packs I haven’t tried in a while

[iron moon]

\

[limpid sequoia]

Extremely thin fogs

[limpid sequoia]

Almost no fogs at noon

and that is okay

[wise hinge]

so many taiga pics today

[severe grove]

More

[wise hinge]

white

[limpid sequoia]

The Nether Waste

[rancid seal]

[limpid sequoia]

hi mate

[rancid seal]

Hii

[rancid seal]

Taiga is the best biome

Ill share my taiga pics a little bit later

[limpid sequoia]

and it made me gonna be crazy

[wise hinge]

nice orange

[limpid sequoia]

i've spent a lot of my time for that

[rancid seal]

I cannot use distance fog in rtx. But I hope volumetric is fine

[limpid sequoia]

i see

[rancid seal]

Fog keyframes made me go crazy

[limpid sequoia]

that's normal for me

because i've finished and i still use thin fog

some of my users said that they don't like too much fog

so i've changed and i happy with that decision

[rancid seal]

Right now, I am currently having a "trouble". I can make my fog look realistic (because ultra rtex sadar should be realising) or I can make them look - idk. Beautiful? For example, make jungle fog green, make taiga fog have leaves colour fog, and so on. O already have some of those fogs added to my resource pack - cherry ambience is completely pink, desert ambience is completely yellow-orange. The problem is I don't get a lot of feedback of people that uses my projects.

[limpid sequoia]

i got u

[rancid seal]

[limpid sequoia]

huh

[rancid seal]

[limpid sequoia]

go to sleep

[rancid seal]

[scarlet gust]

It's almost 1 AM

[severe grove]

It's almost 3 PM

[rancid seal]

It's almost 10:43

Morning

[severe grove]

It's 14:43

Noon

[rancid seal]

Ure far away from me

[severe grove]

Idk

Wait, your Russian right?

[rancid seal]

Yeah

[severe grove]

Ah, thar's why. My country far below you

Still Asia

[rancid seal]

I think there are places in Russia where the time ks 14:46 rn

[limpid sequoia]

It's 15:05 now

[severe grove]

Same

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

Any1 here has a rtx/vv resource pack that works irl?

I hate real life fogs, I need to change them

[wise hinge]

[scarlet gust]

Legendary toe fish asked this same question on this server but got banned for spamming 67

Elite ball knowledge

It's 3 AM and I need to sleep now

[sonic canopy]

The exact answer depends on your use case. Technically, the size of the slope in-between texture pixels on a normal map that was generated from a heightmap texture is 1/8th of a pixel (source - analyzing VV shader source code). So, the smallest resolution to represent heightmap features, for a 16x16 texture, is equal to 16*8=128x128. But if you were to try it in practice, you'd notice that the texture would need to be offset by half a pixel, in order to correctly align with the base texture. So the actual resolution to fully replicate 16x16 heightmaps via normal maps would be 256x256, with slopes in-between pixels being 2 pixels wide and slopes at the edges of the texture being 1 pixel wide. The 192 or 196 numbers that you've heard are likely approximations, to achieve something close to the look of heightmaps but with a minimal texture size.

Also note that the height maps are never stored as normal maps, so they do not occupy any extra ram or vram. Instead, normals are computed from a heightmap in real-time. So, if you have a 16x16 heightmap, it will only occupy as much space as any other 16x16 texture (possibly even less space, for entity and particle textures) and at no point will it be converted to normal map texture or stored at any higher resolutions. So, if you wanted to know the resolution to know how much extra space it will occupy - the answer is 0 extra space.

[limpid sequoia]

[vivid bolt]

Dry thunderstorms are epic with VV

[limpid sequoia]

[cobalt valve]

[silent zealot]

Will water get their colours back.

[tribal trail]

What do you mean

[silent zealot]

I never realised actually how "bad" water is.

[tribal trail]

i think vanilla vv still has colors

it's just water that is very transparent

because vv supports per biome water color

[silent zealot]

very transparent
Is the issue.

[jagged badge]

Aren't there water particle control settings?

[silent zealot]

I presume you mean this in reference to per biome water colour.

Does vanilla use them?

[jagged badge]

If that's the question, then I'm not sure, it's possible it does not.

[tribal trail]

idk, but would be weird if it didn't

[silent zealot]

Latest from the files. 1.21.120

[jagged badge]

So no, it's basically pool water

[vivid bolt]

When I tested that first, it was bugged and just increased black fog (it still does)

[woven mauve]

Specifically what I am trying to do is since items don't support heightmaps but do support normal maps is to recreate heightmaps for an item.

[silent zealot]

Why would Items support normals but not heightmaps.

[silent zealot]

Can confirm, my swamp and mushroom fields water just blackens.

[white willow]

No idea but they only support normals for some reason

[rancid seal]

I don't have item PBR support in general

[cobalt valve]

@silent zealot
In Bedrock’s PBR system (used for Deferred Rendering), textures are defined by a texture_set.json file. While both blocks and items can utilize standard PBR maps, the engine ignores specific data for items:
​Blocks: Support the full range of maps, including Normal maps (for surface direction/lighting) and Heightmaps (for Parallax Occlusion Mapping or POM). This allows blocks to look like they have actual 3D depth and silhouettes.
​Items: Support Normal maps and MER maps (Metallic, Emission, Roughness), but they do not support Heightmaps.

Why Heightmaps don't work on Items

​Parallax Limitations: Heightmaps in Bedrock are primarily used to calculate Parallax Occlusion. This effect requires a fixed, static surface to "push" pixels inward to simulate depth. Because items are constantly moving, rotating in the player's hand, or bobbing in the world, the engine does not currently calculate parallax depth for them.

​UV Mapping: Item textures are typically mapped to a flat 2D plane (the sprite). Normal maps work here because they only change how light bounces off that flat plane. Heightmaps, however, require a more complex shader pass to create the illusion of depth, which the current item shader doesn't include.

​Performance Optimization: Rendering parallax depth on every dropped item in a high-entity area would significantly impact the frame rate, especially on mobile devices or consoles where Bedrock is optimized to run.

[jagged badge]

From what I understand, height maps are basically normal maps, no? They generate a high-resolution normal based on the difference in value of pixels.

Pretty sure there isn't any POM in Bedrock. But it would be cool if there was

Half-expecting this summary to be AI generated and thus completely made up

[tribal trail]

true

[tribal trail]

yes, there is no pom in bedrock

[silent zealot]

Do entities support height map?

[jagged badge]

I believe so, yes

[tribal trail]

they do

[silent zealot]

Because items are constantly moving, rotating in the player's hand, or bobbing in the world, the engine does not currently calculate parallax depth for them.
Then I call BS

[jagged badge]

Probably just a simple bug if anything

[tribal trail]

even attachables support them

bread

[silent zealot]

That is not bread.

That is some sort of oak plank.

[silent zealot]

Quite a fascinating one if so. Alas, I don't think there is confirmation from the devs nor a bug report?

[quick beacon]

biome_water_color_contribution would've been useful if they fixed underwater fog

[tribal trail]

wdym?

underwater fog is not broken

[silent zealot]

Or hear me out, remove underwater fog.

[tribal trail]

ew

no

nuh uh

[silent zealot]

Fog in general is stinky. Except for the Pale Garden

[quick beacon]

You can't tweak anything with them in the fog files. Not even the keyframe stuff works with it

[tribal trail]

you want that? what is wrong with you

[tribal trail]

i think that was by design

fog stuff in fog files are for rtx

and water config files are for vv

[silent zealot]

Only the Prizma creator would say: "I would love to have my vision restricted"

Oh wait Fog has keyframes now I forgot... One step closer to everything having keyframes.

Morning dew

[tribal trail]

I wear glasses, I have my vision restricted anyways

[silent zealot]

Oh, so you are a grandma. 👵

[woven mauve]

With the exception of texture meshes on the entity model/attachable. Those don't allow heightmaps.

...yes that means a single model could have some parts support heightmaps and some parts not.

[tribal trail]

yes

[silent zealot]

Texture meshes? So I presume then it's an issue with extruded textures.

[woven mauve]

No, I tested it myself last year.

Or maybe January this year

[jagged badge]

Yeah, this wouldn't surprise me too much. I'm not sure what it does under the hood but I imagine texture meshes are a bit more sophisticated.

[woven mauve]

Don't remember which

I was using a texture mesh as part of an attachable

Speaking of texture meshes, @silent zealot do you know if texture meshes silently not appearing on block models is a bug?

[silent zealot]

I don't think they're supported in Blocks.

[woven mauve]

I'd assume so but I've never seen any documentation say they weren't supported.

[silent zealot]

Entirely fair, the geometry schemas don't separate things.

[woven mauve]

Might be worth for someone to make a bug report for it, worst case scenario it gets closed.
-# CC @rotund widget

[rotund widget]

Gah, no more bug reports!

[pale urchin]

Where did you get this information?

[rancid seal]

I can't wait you to get pbr on ui in your vv

[half nacelle]

Js that?

🥵

I'm back gys

[half nacelle]

Some of my godrays

I think I'll have to significantly reduce the size of the forests, unfortunately, or maybe just change the sky color to something more vibrant as well.

[willow needle]

Fog like this is usually only suitable for certain biomes.

[half nacelle]

But I like Godrays btw

Especially when they come directly from the sun.

Instead of obstacles

Although both are fog

Btw the Cherry one gave the best results and produced the most intense fog.

[willow needle]

Strawberry Deferred used to be like that

[half nacelle]

That's why I like strong fogs.

Btw I also don't want to leave the sky with the standard blue color or anything like that; I want the forest atmosphere to be dense but not with a black sky, etc.

[willow needle]

Just edit your atmosphere

[cobalt valve]

I've been doing some research

[languid mirage]

You mean “I asked AI”

[cobalt valve]

AI?

No.

I got the information from Wikipedia and some other websites.

I also have been studying the game's engine.

[scarlet gust]

"Hey ChatGPT, why don't height maps work on items"

[cobalt valve]

ChatGPT?

||it sucks||

||in fact, All AI sucks||

[limpid sequoia]

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

[wind pollen]

[scarlet gust]

I discovered something really annoying about Minecraft RTX's normal implementation. A perfectly flat normal is #8080FF instead of #7F7FFF.

[languid mirage]

What you replied with - looks like a direct copy paste of what the Google AI would say...

honestly I would confidently bet on that

[blazing whale]

Good color grading

[limpid sequoia]

thank you

[cobalt valve]

(Actually, its only Partially AI, the rest i collected information from different websites)

Currently I'm only looking in Bedrock, but soon I'll check Java

[cobalt valve]

If you put the maps to #7F7FFF it would be slightly tilted

Even a small difference wouldn't be good

[scarlet gust]

I know, and I find it extremely annoying that the actual center (#7F7FFF) is slightly tilted, but something that should be slightly tilted (#8080FF) is not.

Why did Mojunk do this?

[sonic canopy]

Numerically, neither of them is exactly in the middle of the value range. 127.5 would be the actual center, but we can't store that in the texture, so it has to be rounded to either 127 (0x7f) or 128 (0x80)

[cobalt valve]

I think you're mixing up two different "centers" here, that could be why it feels backwards to you.

In normalmaps, the true neutral direction is (0, 0, 1) - perfectly straight out.

When that gets encoded into 8-bit colour:

0 vector in space - 128 in colour (not 127.5 exactly, because you can't store decimals)

So the correct flat normal becomes #8080FF

You're probably thinking in terms of 0-255 midpoint:
• Middle of 0 and 255 is 127.5, and hence it appears to be the true center.

But there is a catch:

Normal maps aren't centered around 𝘝𝘪𝘴𝘶𝘢𝘭 𝘔𝘪𝘥𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴, they're centered around mathematical zero. And when you quantize 127.5, you choose 128, not 127.

Also
You're not wrong to feel it's weird - it is a limitation of 8-bit precision.

[scarlet gust]

Okay ChatGPT

AI quotation structure

It's not x it's y

Em dashes

Groups of 3

[sonic canopy]

There aren't any in this text btw

[scarlet gust]

So why is GPTZero saying it's partially AI

[sonic canopy]

It could still be ai, just without the em dashes

[scarlet gust]

So they manually replaced -- with -?

[sonic canopy]

The text was likely manually typed, as there were typos that had to be corrected by editing messages.

[scarlet gust]

Anyway, when I was first learning how normals worked and how to make them, I couldn't find anything useful. Why are normal maps so under-documented?

This GitHub page about how to make normal maps only says, "ItsDrCat is Cooking!"

[cobalt valve]

I guess he is working on it

[scarlet gust]

The document was last updates two years ago. By the way, ItsDrCat is working on Cat RTX 1.13, but it probably won't come out any time soon.

[rancid seal]

I would love to see your old profile ngl

[blazing whale]

🗿

[severe grove]

I know how to fix it

Install Clear Water

Make it better 👍

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

I've named it Vibrant Legacy RTX

[languid mirage]

So why lie when I called you out in the first place?

“AI?

No.

I got the information from Wikipedia and some other websites.”

LMFAO

[limpid sequoia]

[languid mirage]

Shoulda placed that bet. I’d be swimming rn.

[severe grove]

Ray Tracing Shadow VS Vibrant Visual Shadow

[rancid seal]

Oh no better rtx

[rancid seal]

Why do you have a huge gap between grass and grass block in vv?

I've been thinking about it for years

[tribal trail]

shadow bias

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

[severe grove]

Ask Microsoft buddy idk too

[limpid sequoia]

@rancid seal does rtx work in preview?

[severe grove]

Minecraft Preview?

[severe grove]

Omg that water reflection and refraction of light from water🔥

[limpid sequoia]

yes

[severe grove]

Should be still work

[vivid bolt]

There's only a very small terrain atlas issue

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

Not yet

You can try it if you love atlas terrain

This one I mean

Rtx is not cute with better rtx imo

[limpid sequoia]

nah

[cobalt valve]

That looks impressive.

[limpid sequoia]

thank you!

[cobalt valve]

Please tell me, how did you get it to look like that?

[cobalt valve]

I know this.

Bedrock's RTX, as you know it, is made to run on PCs. But Vibrant Visuals has to run even in a Smartphone. So the amount of detail is simplified.

[severe grove]

But VV shadow way too blurry

And why there's a gap 💔🥀

[cobalt valve]

I don't know why
It could be bug that would be fixed soon (atleast that is what i am hoping for since RTX is probably going to get some bug fixes so VV should get it too.)

[white willow]

Shadows here use 2 COMPLETELY different methods to render. RTX shadows are of course ray traced. Meaning they are accurate. VV shadows are not and use shadowmaps which have issues like the disconnection (Peter panning). RTXs shadows since they are raytraced they come with a non-uniform shadow softness, meaning they get softer the further the shadow goes from contact. VV shadows don't do that, they use PCF filtering which applies a uniform softening (the blurriness you speak of). It's not that VV shadows are lower quality or blurry, cuz RTX shadows could be blurry too. It's just very different techniques

[cobalt valve]

Makes sense.

[severe grove]

Bro i just open Discord

[white willow]

Me too

[severe grove]

But, is there other way to make the shadow still good, but didn't need rtx?

[white willow]

Define good because in my own opinion sharper does not equal good

VVs shadows themselves are quite good quality.

[severe grove]

Yes they get softer and blurry and it far away from the object

[cobalt valve]

We can't go too sharp since that'd make it less realistic.

[white willow]

Also with shadow mapping you kinda want the softening. The edges of shadows will be jagged

[cobalt valve]

Yes.

[white willow]

It works fine for the pixel aligned shadows but not soft shadows

[severe grove]

The far as we can go the shadow become so blur

[white willow]

Yes I'm aware

While it's possible for VV to do this, they likely won't add it because of mobile limitations

[cobalt valve]

This is pretty accurate, and this is what i would like to see in Minecraft, though i suspect that We'd have to put some effort into it.

[white willow]

There's an effect called PCSS, which is an extension of PCF which simulates the effect of variable penumbra

But PCSS is more expensive

[cobalt valve]

What is its impact on performance?

[white willow]

Can't say for sure since I haven't done it myself yet

But it could be up to a -15%

Which for mobile is bad

[severe grove]

Maybe ut will make the game alot lag. Maybe since it need very complex

Thingy

[white willow]

PCSS itself really isn't that complicated, it just does extra calculations

[cobalt valve]

I think that increases the load in the CPU/GPU as well

[white willow]

Now again they have a memory tiering system, as well as the configs so they could very well restrict other platforms from just using PCSS if it's too much

But I don't think VV needs it imo

The shadows are fine as is

[severe grove]

But it still make a phone need more work right? So maybe it will increasing lag

[severe grove]

I think so

[white willow]

Extra calculations means more for the gpu to do so yes

Either way, VV shouldn't go the direction of realism

That goes against its purpose and design

[limpid sequoia]

that's my custom BetterRTX preset:)

[cobalt valve]

I agree. The Pixelated shadows perfectly fits with the simplistic style of the game.

[rancid seal]

I somehow liked to see vv screenshots from you more than that 😭

[limpid sequoia]

@rancid seal

oke

[rancid seal]

Bro I have my internet duong every 5 secs

Dying*

[limpid sequoia]

🗿

[rancid seal]

I have to turn on and turn off VPN every 20 minutes or less

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

yeah i can tell

[severe grove]

Ray Tracing Lighting is G.O.A.T

[cobalt valve]

That is until you realize how much pressure your PC is going through

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

i'm undervolting my PC:)

[rancid seal]

Beautiful default RTX

[severe grove]

The sky is very blue

[cobalt valve]

i was js trying to make a meme there lol

[limpid sequoia]

aahh i see

[severe grove]

But i prefer BetterRTX

[limpid sequoia]

i use orange fog for taiga, roofed, jungle

i'm not a huge fan of green

[cobalt valve]

[severe grove]

And none of java shader can make a refraction like this

[rancid seal]

Same, I don't use green rn

[rancid seal]

What the heck is your mipmapping level bro

[rancid seal]

Your villagers are broken

[severe grove]

Idk, i get that picture from reddit

[severe grove]

It's a normal issue from bedrock rtx

[cobalt valve]

Do i see a Wandering trader in image#3👀?

[rancid seal]

I get fun working with default rtx, and as I worked with it for a long time, default rtx is always more beautiful for me then better rtx one

[severe grove]

Yk i dint have rtx bro

[rancid seal]

I mean, I don't get why all packs don't fix them.

[severe grove]

Is BetterRTX and Default RTX have a diffrent method to work?

[severe grove]

Idk it's a issue from like 2024 until now

[rancid seal]

Better rtx is basically a custom shader for rtx

[rancid seal]

You are wrong this time

Overlay textures are not supported for rtx, so it was always there.

[severe grove]

But it didn't use resource pack like Kelly conversion or Defined PBR. It use a installer and idk i see a BetterRTX installation tutorial on youtube it's using a folder like that

[white willow]

its really not that easy of a fix for most people

[severe grove]

Oh

[white willow]

the only reason its fixed in my pack is because madlad and mr atlaz worked on a global open source bug fix pack

[severe grove]

But pack like Defined PBR fix it

[rancid seal]

Oh. I kinda did all bug fixes by myself. Villager one was one of the easiest for me

[white willow]

good for you. you understand the system

most people do not

sorry that came out mean

[tribal trail]

it's much older issue

[white willow]

im in a bad mood

[rancid seal]

Hope you get better soon

[severe grove]

Nvidia presenting rtx to bedrock since 2019, so maybe the issue is from 2019 till now

[rancid seal]

It was always in rtx

Even in rtx beta

Overlay textures were never supported

[severe grove]

Oh, sorry i dont know abt that

[tribal trail]

yup

[rancid seal]

The only bad thing for me about thos issue is that banner patterns don't work. But other stuff is kinda fixable

[rancid seal]

Hiii

[tribal trail]

hello

[limpid sequoia]

hi there

[wise hinge]

[tribal trail]

hi

[tribal trail]

hi hi

[limpid sequoia]

hi

[cobalt valve]

Anyways
Back to topic-

[severe grove]

There's a 6 "hi" here

And it 7 now

[severe grove]

What topic

[cobalt valve]

RTX

[tribal trail]

i see what you did

[wise hinge]

dang im blocked i can't react to stephen :(

[tribal trail]

https://klipy.com/gifs/zaunvi-caitvitwt-2--k01KQSR30728S4QCPCF24WZ3850

[rancid seal]

How r you

[cobalt valve]

Is this graphics general or just some randon general now

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

:doggy_smurk:

[severe grove]

This is:
CAT GENERAL
DAWG GENERAL
HI GENERAL
And you can add some

[tribal trail]

I'm eating bread

how are you?

[cobalt valve]

Bruh

[severe grove]

Am i right?

[limpid sequoia]

the last pic

[rancid seal]

Im in the bus rn

[limpid sequoia]

[cobalt valve]

I like this one

[limpid sequoia]

thanks

[severe grove]

Russian bus.. oh i hate it. I know that joke 🥀

[rancid seal]

Now switch to default rtx

[limpid sequoia]

dawg

[rancid seal]

Wdym? I am in the regular bus...

[severe grove]

Nope, you don't need to understand what i'm saying

[cobalt valve]

Though i think there should be some tweaking done to make it look better, like the sun being a little smaller and the sky having a softer gradient. (Im just suggesting, its your choice afterall)

[limpid sequoia]

i got it

[rancid seal]

[severe grove]

Anyone who react my joke, pls you will regret it if you know that joke 🥀

[limpid sequoia]

[cobalt valve]

[limpid sequoia]

[tribal trail]

[rancid seal]

Bro what the heck is thos guy saying

[rancid seal]

[cobalt valve]

Ok what

Now this is Emojis general

[severe grove]

Should i tell y'all what im saying?

[cobalt valve]

Ok now this is stickers general

[severe grove]

This is:
-CAT GENERAL
-DAWG GENERAL
-HI GENERAL
-EMOJI GENERAL
-RUSSIAN BUS JOKE GENERAL

[wise hinge]

/unblock nocturnemew /j :(((((((

[rancid seal]

@limpid sequoia

[cobalt valve]

At this point this channel is just memes-general

[severe grove]

Alr

This is:
-CAT GENERAL
-DAWG GENERAL
-HI GENERAL
-EMOJI GENERAL
-RUSSIAN BUS JOKE GENERAL
-MEME GENERAL

[rancid seal]

Nah im out of this chat

[severe grove]

Bye

[cobalt valve]

I don't see the point when something that makes no sense is discussed in a channel specialized for a topic.

[severe grove]

From: "why VV shadow is way too blurry?"
To: "emoji, meme, idk"

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

[limpid sequoia]

dawg

[rancid seal]

doggy

[severe grove]

You said you out from this chat

[limpid sequoia]

[cobalt valve]

DoggySmurkW

[rancid seal]

:doggy_smurk:

[limpid sequoia]

my eng is not good yet, and my vocabulary too

[severe grove]

Me too

[limpid sequoia]

i've learned some new words rug, lamp, cupboards,...

[rancid seal]

I lost the access to doggy smurk

Oh no my VPN isdying, what do I do

[severe grove]

Wait, who us American of British here?
A bo'o o' o'er?

[limpid sequoia]

dawng

[cobalt valve]

Dw
We have CatSmurk

[limpid sequoia]

woh-tuh

[severe grove]

I think most of us from Asia

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

I will steal this emoji so I can use it later.

[limpid sequoia]

i'm vietnamese and i'm mixed

[severe grove]

Ik it, i see from your server there's a channel called "vienam" yea, from that i know that you are vietnames

[limpid sequoia]

hehe

[severe grove]

The only thing thats left is

Me

[limpid sequoia]

me too

[severe grove]

Alright

Time to go bed

[limpid sequoia]

wait

[rancid seal]

I have 18:26

[severe grove]

What

[limpid sequoia]

Just gotta bed at 3AM like me

[severe grove]

22:26

[severe grove]

My mom will kill me

If i do that

[wind pollen]

What's going on

[rancid seal]

Yay bro let's go to the bed at 3:00 together we don't need to sleep

[limpid sequoia]

and my uncle won't kill me

[severe grove]

Oh you just arrived huh?

[limpid sequoia]

agree

[severe grove]

Ur lucky

[rancid seal]

My something won't kill someone

[limpid sequoia]

hehe

i'm almost 19 now

[severe grove]

But i go to school in 9:15 so there's a chance my mom will let me go sleep in 3 AM

[limpid sequoia]

[rancid seal]

Ure lucky lol

[limpid sequoia]

i usually go to college at 5h30

[severe grove]

5 PM?

[rancid seal]

Why don't you try sleeping more?

[limpid sequoia]

5 AM of course

[severe grove]

Our seniors having a exam so i go to school 9:15

[limpid sequoia]

i can't

[severe grove]

Normal time i go to school is 7 AM

[rancid seal]

Bro ure not lucky

[severe grove]

🤣

Wait i need to pee

Wait a sec

[wind pollen]

Wait

Why are we talking about life things here?

[limpid sequoia]

Graphics General 🥀

where is graphics

i'll fire my PC

[severe grove]

Jokes

Russian bus

[wind pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-meme-meme-meme-cat-gif-14470917232397934693

[severe grove]

Maybe i'll not talking about it again

Cuz it

[wind pollen]

But

Who started this?

[limpid sequoia]

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

that's fine

it has nothing to fix

[half nacelle]

You have a point, it would even be easy to create an atmosphere for the forest, skill issue srry

[half nacelle]

My VPN crashes every time I try to test Shaders in Minecraft Java on my cellphone.

[limpid sequoia]

[willow needle]

Strawberry Cloudy Visuals with horror theme (available later)

[cobalt valve]

Wait, is that actually rtx? I don't see enough Global illumination

[wise hinge]

that's vv

[cobalt valve]

I assume that is his pack

[wise hinge]

right

[blazing whale]

ok

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

[scarlet gust]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-kid-edit-analog-horror-phonk-gif-3349401281762803381

https://tenor.com/view/scp-067-67-6-7-six-seven-sixty-seven-gif-13940852437921483111

[limpid sequoia]

[scarlet gust]

https://tenor.com/view/1-gif-5818825248660632810

This chat is also Six-Seven General now

It's also Bedwars General

[scarlet gust]

I'm from USA

[scarlet gust]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-pet-cat-pat-cat-petting-petting-cat-gif-88141326984537530

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-shocked-cat-cat-shocked-kittens-kitten-gif-8807856676975242366

https://tenor.com/view/fast-jumping-spring-cat-cat-spring-jump-gif-112042245625225178

https://tenor.com/view/mèo-troll-buồn-khóc-gif-15310748970221777264

https://tenor.com/view/melvin-meme-cat-cat-meme-melvin-meme-meme-melvin-gif-5576245011655696514

This is:
-CAT GENERAL
-DAWG GENERAL
-HI GENERAL
-EMOJI GENERAL
-RUSSIAN BUS JOKE GENERAL
-MEME GENERAL
-SIX SEVEN GENERAL
-BEDWARS GENERAL

[scarlet gust]

🔥

[cobalt valve]

Where's the graphics 🙁

[wind pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smiling-smile-joyus-goofy-gif-8503284659254790420

[limpid sequoia]

this

[limpid sequoia]

[wind pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/rizz-face-rizz-looking-look-cat-cat-look-gif-9087142249007966948

[limpid sequoia]

-DOGGY SMURK GENERAL

[limpid sequoia]

[wind pollen]

Ertiex

[limpid sequoia]

sadar

[wind pollen]

Ultra realistic Ertiex Sadar

[limpid sequoia]

no lag no clickbait

yassssssssssss

VV

yassss

rtex sadar with vanilla woh-tuh texture

yasssss

[wind pollen]

[limpid sequoia]

[limpid sequoia]

release day: next day or thursday after i finished the end and the nether

Fog

[wise hinge]

such a beautiful leaf

[cobalt valve]

[limpid sequoia]

Back to VV

i may have rest before back to RTX

[rancid seal]

Better rtx and rtx are two different styled things

@limpid sequoia do you need free villagers fix configs for rtx? :3

[limpid sequoia]

i don't need

[rancid seal]

Did you enjoy being broken villagers not wearing clothes?

[limpid sequoia]

yes!

[rancid seal]

I've sent thos screenshot million times, but enjooy not broken villagerr

Idk why my auto corrector types the word "thos" instead of "this"

[limpid sequoia]

i prefer villager without clothes

[cobalt valve]

What

[rancid seal]

Why

10 mins of coding and they are fixed

[limpid sequoia]

i don't need to fix anything are not related to graphics

"graphics" of course

lighting, fog,...

[severe grove]

Bro it's already 2026 🥀

First people from USA i know here