Graphics General

[white willow]

Either way though, the changes to emissives are great. I'm gonna test things out shortly

Also time to redo my sky because now with the reduced fog it looks awful

[vague shoal]

It’s okay I guess

[ornate hollow]

may look bad in another biome

[white willow]

its so much better than the smog filled fog

i feel its a little to condensed by the sun but thats where tweaks, feedback or even exposing that part of it to us would be great

either way the addition of a heyney greenstein phase funtion is great. it can be used on so many thigns

they could use it to make SSS brigher in direct lighting, clouds many other things

[ornate hollow]

aY

about clouds

is there SSS for clouds?

[ornate hollow]

A

SUN RAYS LOOK BETTER

[white willow]

you wouldnt use sss for clouds, youd use a scattering and absorption method mixed with could density and a heyney greenstein function to make that all pointed into the one thing

clouds are done the same way you do VL fog

just in the sky

i do gotta fix my emissives now

but i have an idea

[white willow]

i havent personally done any volumetric rendering yet but i get the general idea of how it works

[tribal trail]

:0

[ornate hollow]

WO

WOW

[white willow]

and distant things dont look terrible anymore

[ornate hollow]

LOOK GOOD

[ornate hollow]

WATER!!

[pale urchin]

Yup. That's water

[quick beacon]

https://x.com/XxPoggyisLitxX/status/1894811276330590535 😭 🙏

XxPoggyisLitxX (@XxPoggyisLitxX) on X

They fixed auto exposure. Deferred is playable now! Bright surfaces, like sand will no longer make the screen go darker!

X · Feb 26, 2025, 6:06 PM

[ornate hollow]

VERY BRIGHT🔥

[quick beacon]

Tho do not use high illuminance values-

[ornate hollow]

i want video😭

[ornate hollow]

i 😭 can't force preview use dx12

[white willow]

my fog now feels too thick

[ornate hollow]

yes

[white willow]

i might test out using the values i use in rtx

see how that looks

[ornate hollow]

i don't know why

it's look bad now

[sonic canopy]

In real life, SSS and VL scattering are fairly similar, the only difference being that SSS uses way higher medium densities, might use different scattering functions as it's a different medium and it also has an object surface where additional things can happen like some proportion of light reflecting as specular. Also diffuse light is technically volumetric light, but with medium densities so high that the light barely penetrates into the surface and just gets reflected or absorbed immediately. When approximating them in graphics however, SSS is usually implemented in a simplified manner, without treating it as a volume

[white willow]

ah

[ornate hollow]

G

[white willow]

using my rtx fog here

its basically 1-1 with rtx in direct sunlight now

in terms of thickness

and wow emissives are REALLY dark now. even my rtx ones are too dark haha

[tribal trail]

autoexposure seems so slow now

[white willow]

you wanna know the emissive map i needed for this lol

it scales a lot better now though

[tribal trail]

everything seems so dakr now (not only shadows)

[white willow]

i raised my sun by a value of about 40 to get similar results to before

[tribal trail]

ooh

[white willow]

also you can port rtx emissives over to deferred now but they will still need some adjustments

[long ruin]

Deferred looks a lot better now tbh

[white willow]

alot of that i think has to do with the fact that fog isnt choking up the whole scene

im gonna port all my rtx fogs over tbh cuz i always found them to look a bit better and they give good results now

clear reflections with fog enabled. yay

[long ruin]

W

[ornate hollow]

☝️

👍

WAIT WAIT

[tribal trail]

not the underwater ones

[white willow]

hey this looks better too

also the emissive im using on the glowstone i ported from rtx

it works great

[white willow]

yea underwater is still a bit rough in that regard

[tribal trail]

now i need fix for shadows and i can die

[long ruin]

tbh, I still think floodfill lighting should be added

[white willow]

100 %

[long ruin]

instead of having hundreds of point lights

[white willow]

yea cuz the performance is rough in scenes like this

[white willow]

tbh i may no longer have two pack versions

just merge rtx and deferred versions together

since rtx stuff translates over well now

[sonic canopy]

wish underwater visuals can be improved in deferred

[white willow]

old deferred tuned fog, vs rtx tuned fog (ignore the color differences, i just used a very different fog color in rtx)

i literally see no reason to have an rtx and deferred pack anymore

just one consolodated pbr resource pack

[quasi trench]

actual good change for immersion

[quasi trench]

too smoggy in old deferred

but now its cooking

[quasi trench]

this is the level of sun flare brightness i wanted to see

only thing is that shadows look too dark still

did they not fix that

[white willow]

rtx vs deferred

[white willow]

well i know a way to fix it

[white willow]

btw same fog

[white willow]

but it may not be great

[pale urchin]

screenshot?

[quasi trench]

aw man

[quasi trench]

i daresay if the shadows darkness got fixed… deferred might marginally win here

[pale urchin]

Does increasing the sky ambient brightness not fix the shadows?

[white willow]

welp i just tried and no

however making the sun brighter helps a little

[tribal trail]

i know a way

but don't want to change it because if they fix it soon it will be a waste of time

[white willow]

yea

im just messing aroudn wtih things right now

genuinely thinking about discontinnuing vanilla reforged rtx in favor of making vanilla reforged compatible with both because fog and emissives translates over pretty darn well

same with plagued pbr

im gonna port everything from rtx over and see how it looks

[quasi trench]

one pack for all your vanilla reforged needs

[white willow]

yep. i dont see any reason to keep them separate

[quasi trench]

omg i can finally say im using an rtx pack

[white willow]

yea no nothing funky happened

[quasi trench]

not reflections or nether or end?

[white willow]

funny enough rtx emissives are too dark for deferred it looks like

or well mine at least

[quasi trench]

woah

[tribal trail]

don't think emissives translates that well

also fog colors are still off

[white willow]

rtx emissives in deferred

[tribal trail]

mine are too dark

[white willow]

nether portal is chalked though

[tribal trail]

almost don't glow

[pale urchin]

@still zenith is this new feature of fog customizable or planned to be?

[white willow]

idk then. mine carried over really well

[still zenith]

Not exactly, but we can put it on the road map if it is something you all would like to control.

[white willow]

it would be nice. but in general its a good improvement either way

[pale urchin]

Still wanna see how water fog looks

I haven't played the preview yet

[white willow]

its the same as it was before

[pale urchin]

Huh. So the effect changes based on whether it's water or air

[white willow]

just a little stronger near the sun position

[pale urchin]

Well I'm glad that was thought of then

[white willow]

@still zenith ive found a rough interaction with the new auto exposure and handheld objects

[tribal trail]

also new auto exposure is so slow 😭

it needs to be a bit faster

[white willow]

agree

otherwise its a great improvement

[tribal trail]

idk

my game is so dark now

even with bumping sun brightness

i had to change my clor grading

[white willow]

i havent seen to big of a difference. aces in general is a lot better now though

not everything just becomes pure white anymore

[tribal trail]

also i can't get emissive maps to be very bright

thsi is my texture

even in rtx it would be bright asf

[white willow]

ok yea as im messing with this more, emissives are quite dark

[tribal trail]

They are way too dark

[white willow]

something around here would be ok. (set the emissive brightness in the deferred render.json to 3)

and these emissives are using typical rtx values so around 40-120 on average

lemme compare this with rtx real fast though

yea thats pretty on par

if we get emissive brightness to here this would be perfect

[quick beacon]

I think it'd be really cool if we can customize it ^^

I honestly love how deferred looks this preview.

[pale urchin]

I think a nice and even 4 would be good

[white willow]

idk i think it would be better for emissives to match rtx intensity which 3 does basically perfectly

i can see how it looks with 4 in a bit

[tribal trail]

Remember that you use aces that blow emissivness much more

On other tonemaps 3 might not be enough

[still zenith]

We haven't advertised it, but there is another tonemapping operator that we support, which we call "generic". I wonder what things look like with that one. 😉

Should be able to swap out something like "reinhard" or "aces" for "generic".

[silent zealot]

Mojang ran out of names. It's over.

[still zenith]

It does need a proper name. You're right about that.

[tribal trail]

I'll try that but i really like hable

Would be awesome to have control over emissivity strength

[still zenith]

Noted

And Henyey-Greenstein Phase Density

[tribal trail]

I have one more suggestion...

Control over Point light volumetric

I want them to be stronger than they are now (without need to make fog thicker)

[ornate hollow]

Yes

[ornate hollow]

I want this

[harsh iris]

oh nice colors

[viscid moth]

would be so awsome to get light leaking fixed

[wise hinge]

Umm...my lantern emissive were around 1-6, and now i painted over with 100%(value:255) white, but it looks quite dark in the game...
They look emissive(but just a little) only when I change current topemapp to aces.

[tribal trail]

is only my night very bright? or others have that issue too

[white willow]

My night is daytime

So yes

[tribal trail]

i was worried that it's only me

[white willow]

Yea no I'm using like 4 moon illuminations and it's bright

[tribal trail]

new autoexposure is not only too slow but also too harsh

[white willow]

Real bright

[tribal trail]

i use 0.5 and it's still day time..

[white willow]

The new changes were the right ideas

They just need some tweaking

I'm dreading do auto exposure. Seems like a pain

[graceful iron]

Mojmapper (Mojang Tonemapper)

totally great name idea

I think I accidentally reply pinged, mb

[white willow]

working on some new skies

and also working on finding a good balance for the new fog

[white willow]

rain looks nuts

[white willow]

absolutely criminal this effect only really works with stupidly thick fog

[white willow]

I believe it would be possible to use the henyey greenstein function for point lights to make the fog brighter at their location

[tribal trail]

I do that all the time to everyone 🥹

[broken egret]

Is there any other ways to edit the transparency of a texture similar to how "USE_COLOR_MASK" works on players

[quasi trench]

they really cooked with this one

[ornate hollow]

OM

[pale urchin]

Has anyone talked about the sun still appearing even in weather?

[white willow]

it does disappear if the fog is thick enough

personally i dont mind it, the bigger issue is the sun completely ignoring depth in reflections and rendering through terrain

in theory it shouldnt be too hard to fix, just run a depth test and if it doesnt return as 1.0 dont render the reflection

[pale urchin]

Yes but its light is still there

[white willow]

true. tbh i dont mind it, makes it feel more like a sun shower

although for a thunderstorm the sun should definitely go away

[quick beacon]

Would be nice if it was random

[white willow]

not sure how hard that would be but would be cool

[quasi trench]

hopefully one day we can have actual thunderstorm clouds or something

with no sunlight peering through everything

i want puddles but thats not happening

[wild jay]

Me too, I just added this to my deferred pack xD

I'll see if I can find a way to make puddles...

[quasi trench]

ooo drop splatter

[wild jay]

Yup

[pale urchin]

This isn't right 👀

There shouldn't be a reflection in the circle

[long ruin]

[tribal trail]

it loooks really good!! but sometimes things looks a bit broken/weird

generic

hable

and anything that is reflecting sunlight is pure white

[proud pike]

Woah, that looks quite nice

Emissives look quite great. honestly W deferred update

[ornate hollow]

i like both

[tribal trail]

look at lantern that is pink

it shouldn't be

[tribal trail]

you like everything that reflect sun to be white?

[ornate hollow]

uhhh

i want to see more

but i'm actually not sure i like it

yes yes

[proud pike]

Oop, I thought it was just slightly warmer

Looking closely yeah, the colour is definitely off

[white willow]

I might mess around with the generic tonemapper

[pale urchin]

What does the generic tonemapper provide?

[white willow]

No idea, why I wanna check it out

I knew about its existence but never messed with it

[quick beacon]

It existed for a while and some colors with it are slightly off

[sonic canopy]

Here's source code for it, in case anyone's curious
https://github.com/veka0/mcbe-shader-codebase/blob/f6891805b53caff84e7ad646790ff2c38280f483/materials/ColorPostProcessing/ColorPostProcessing.ESSL_310.Fragment.glsl#L310-L317
It appears that it has customizable parameters (supplied by the game rather than baked into shaders) for contrast, scale, offset and crosstalk (possibly more parameters will be available in the future for crosstalk specifically?). Would be nice if we had access to these parameters, that would allow creators to have greater control over tonemapping.

[white willow]

whatever you guys are doing, please, keep doing it

[quasi trench]

COOKING

more, MORE!

[gaunt sparrow]

this look awsome

[white willow]

my overhaul is going well :)

[white willow]

current work in progress sunset

[ornate hollow]

this my favorite screenshot

it's perfect

look at this

[quasi trench]

hey wait are those custom clouds hiding up there

[tribal trail]

Custom skybox

[quasi trench]

interesting

[civic radish]

Does anyone knows how to compile a shader with lazurite tool for windows, I used lazurite build ./src -p windows and defined all direct3d_SM in project.json and run the command on windows 11 but it still compiles on android

[sonic canopy]

What does lazurite info show for compiled materials?

[civic radish]

PS F:\...> lazurite info
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 198, in _run_module_as_main
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 88, in _run_code
  File "F:\...\lazurite.exe\__main__.py", line 7, in <module>
  File "F:\...\lazurite\cli.py", line 452, in main
    commands[args.command](args)
  File "F:\...\lazurite\cli.py", line 237, in info
    for file in list_packed_materials(args):
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "F:\...\lazurite\cli.py", line 19, in list_packed_materials
    raise Exception("Material path argument was expected")
Exception: Material path argument was expected

[sonic canopy]

You also need to provide path to compiled material. E.g. lazurite info ./src/RenderChunk.material.bin

[civic radish]

okay

[wise hinge]

Doesn't the bell support pbr?

I've tried adding pbr for the bell from textures/entity/bell or textures/blocks/bell_side, bell_bottom, bell_top

[tribal trail]

no

it doesn't

[wise hinge]

Okay, thanks

[white willow]

There's still quite a few blocks that can't accept PBR 😭

Banners, beacon beam, bell, candles, chiseled bookshelf is a little funky

[wise hinge]

[humble drift]

Skill issue

[ornate hollow]

☝️

i will touch you

[wise hinge]

[ornate hollow]

🐲

[tribal trail]

I love almost every change that happened to deferred but autoexposure is not it

just pulling my glowing bow makes whole game look dark

[stark harness]

Yeah it's kinda Annoying especially whenever your fighting mobs and can't even see them I hope they try to make it to where you can see better and make it brighter

[vague shoal]

It’s been like that for months now

I can’t enjoy realism craft + deferred without the clouds making my screen dark as heck when looking at them ☹️

[tribal trail]

Sure but now it's MUCH worse

My bow was not causing screen to be that dark

[trail bridge]

does anyone have a version of vanilla RTX for 1.21.5? the only version available on MCPEDL is for 1.21.95, and it's not working for me

I used to use the 1.20 version of it, but that stopped working for me now

[pale urchin]

I hope they add emissive intensity customization here.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/minecraft/creator/documents/deferredlighting/lightingcustomization?view=minecraft-bedrock-experimental

[ornate hollow]

Update your game

[trail bridge]

I’m on 1.21.52

[ornate hollow]

update

[trail bridge]

Okay

[quasi trench]

just did a bit of stress testing on ps5 pro

these screenshots are on maximum settings, 24 render distance, 8 simulation distance, 4k resolution

[pale urchin]

Including volumetric fog = ultra?

[quasi trench]

yes very much so

when turning around and looking at the nether torches it did go below 30 momentarily but then rebounded

[pale urchin]

What's that in the corner of the second screenshot

[quasi trench]

its the weakness particle effect

not even creative saves you from the chambers

[pale urchin]

Why does it look so white?

And foggy?

It barely looks like an effect particle

[quasi trench]

could be one of the resource packs i had on

moved exactly how a potion effect particle would

[quasi trench]

without the torches the framerate reached 60 in some areas, not sure why some didn’t however

heck in the first couple minutes i loaded into the world the framerate kept at 60 with these same setting minus fog set to high

[tribal trail]

It's 1.3.1 or 1.3.2?

[quasi trench]

1.3.2 latest prizma i downloaded off mcpedl at 3:14 pm

when quirky is done with VR 1.1 ill test again with that

i doubt there will be a difference but who knows

[quasi trench]

important note: i had another animation resource pack on too

it messed with some particle textures despite what ive tried

[ornate hollow]

ay

VR

ps vr

is minecraft still support ps vr?

[quasi trench]

this month support disappears

[vague shoal]

Aswell as other support for devices

New graphics ui being added to stable and support for some devices ending has to be a hint at something

[wise hinge]

yipeeeee

[ornate hollow]

YIPEEEEEEEEE

REEALLAAL

AAJ ONLINE

MEAN DEFERRED GOODIE

WOW

VEKA is prophet

[white willow]

Can't wait to cook

[pale urchin]

local exposure sounds promising

[white willow]

Oh yes

Local exposure is an amazing tool

[faint frigate]

I am interested how the Off option for Point lights would look like

[pale urchin]

My guess? Pure block lighting. Like those old HAL shaders

[white willow]

It's probably just vanilla lighting

[pale urchin]

Which reminds me. Do we have a way to modify block light colour?

[white willow]

Nope

Would love to though

[long ruin]

still waiting for point lights on custom blocks

[pale urchin]

Forgot all about that

[white willow]

Because this is something I did. More orange blocklight. Always thought that looked a bit better than the whitish yellow

[sonic canopy]

There might be some color remaining in the block light as that was a feature we got some time ago, and changelog mentions "analytical point lights" which may not include colored block light

[white willow]

Potentially

Will have to experiment

im also very curious about caustics stuff

since weve had the png in the files for a long time now, my guess is its like rtx where it uses an LuT instead

[sonic canopy]

With local exposure, aces should be way more usable

[white willow]

but maybe it can be skewed by waves

[pale urchin]

That would be an interesting approach

[white willow]

idk we dont have docs yet

but the coolest thing about the caustics are that the png for deferred is the old caustics texture from the xbox series X raytracing demo

at least the one in the files is

[wise hinge]

yumyum

[vague shoal]

Yooo

I don’t see any noise bug

[ornate hollow]

YOO

hmmm

yum

why look bad like this

[vague shoal]

Better clouds when tho

[vague shoal]

It’s the default caustics

You can customize it

[ornate hollow]

ayyy

[pale urchin]

Oh it says so in the docs now?

[vague shoal]

No it said in the changelog

[ornate hollow]

in changelog

[pale urchin]

It didn't say how though

[vague shoal]

“And can be further controlled by recourse packs”

[vague shoal]

We’ll figure it out soon

[pale urchin]

I will assume for now that you can edit the texture

[vague shoal]

When they update the docs

[white willow]

if i get access imma replace it wit hthe rtx one for funnies

[wise hinge]

-# replace with rtx caustics

[ornate hollow]

yes yes that is the thing i want to test

[pale urchin]

How's the exposure?

[white willow]

WOAH

they take the pbr data into account

[pale urchin]

What does?

bell?

[white willow]

caustics

[pale urchin]

Oh..

[pale urchin]

What does this mean?

[white willow]

like they are affected by normals and such

they look all bumpy

[pale urchin]

Ahh

[white willow]

the game also FINALLY detects my controller as a PS controller

[pale urchin]

Could that be why the caustics look weird in that screenshot?

[white willow]

they uh dont render on walls very well though

[ornate hollow]

real?

[wise hinge]

AH

[ornate hollow]

GG

[pale urchin]

That wouldn't make sense. the walls aren't facing the sun

[tribal trail]

SHADOWS ARE FIXED

[ornate hollow]

AAAA

[white willow]

thats the problem, they are. underwater lighting looks a bit busted

[wise hinge]

Yeyyep finally shadow fixed!!

[white willow]

also my water is pure black

maybe a world reload will fix it

nope

[vague shoal]

Noooo the water noise bug on my iOS device is still happen

Oh well

[ornate hollow]

?

huh?

[vague shoal]

The water is messed up on my phone

[ornate hollow]

noise?

[vague shoal]

There’s pixels flashing on the wavy water

[ornate hollow]

oh

still bug

[wise hinge]

the sunrise got wayyy better now 😭

they are so smooth

[vague shoal]

Oh ye the only feature left now to be added from the qna is refractions

So what’s next

[ornate hollow]

what about water noise

[vague shoal]

Buh

[white willow]

rainbow after rainstorm when

[sonic canopy]

new uniform in renderchunk, don't know what it does but it sounds exciting

[wise hinge]

[white willow]

i need to fix my game now cuz shadows are super bright

[tribal trail]

same

[wise hinge]

so real

[rocky halo]

theory : it's about the bedrock popping

[sonic canopy]

the what?

[rocky halo]

for example grass disappear after a short distance

please let me dream

one day it will be fixed ou become better

[pale urchin]

you mean LOD?

[rocky halo]

yes but it's not like distant horizon

[pale urchin]

I wouldn't say "fix" it, but allow it to be customizable so higher end devices can see everything if they want

[sonic canopy]

I will check if it's used on android, but my guess is that it's related to something else and is likely unused at this time, since culling and LODs happen on CPU side in minecraft typically

[white willow]

so you can just drag and drop

[vague shoal]

YOOO

[pale urchin]

Also, I see what you mean by the walls

[vague shoal]

MUCH BETTER THAN THOSE PIXELS

[white willow]

pixelated caustics fit the game better tbh

[vague shoal]

Now let’s do the same with clouds

[white willow]

because its literally aligned to the block pixels

these arent and feel out of place

[vague shoal]

Drag and drop custom files to make better clouds

[pale urchin]

Well at least the pack creator can decide

[white willow]

ehhhh no

i repolaced renderer files here

[vague shoal]

Oh

Crap

[white willow]

yea

i copied the rtx caustics into deferred

[tribal trail]

without pointlights

[white willow]

which ngl the rtx caustics are WAY better for rtx just simply because they are semi physically based

[tribal trail]

with pointlights

[white willow]

these caustics are just an overlay 😭

[tribal trail]

look at the fps

[ornate hollow]

oh wowww

[vague shoal]

Yep mine is horrendous too rn

Keeps going up and down

[tribal trail]

no

[white willow]

rtx caustics

[white willow]

deferred caustics

deferred caustics are pixel locked

[vague shoal]

Oh

[white willow]

rtx ones would be great with a realistic texture pack

[vague shoal]

Then imma just turn off point lights

And maybe my performance will get better

[sonic canopy]

FullscreenEffect.material.bin seems interesting

[ornate hollow]

slow movement

[white willow]

point lights on

point light off

yea its a sizeable increse

[vague shoal]

Okay it’s better now but there’s random lag spikes for some reason

[wise hinge]

now i can finally place lantern inside of my house

[white willow]

point lights off uses an improved version of vanilla lighting

[tribal trail]

how is it improved?

[white willow]

its a more accurate and brighter floodfill

with better decay and attenuation

now imagine if it could have colored lighting

but iirc that may require voxelization

[white willow]

oh so you can change the texture in a resource pack?

i dont have to replace the renderer file

[quick beacon]

"caustics": {
            "enabled": true,
            "frame_length": 0.05000000074505806,
            "texture": "",
            "scale": 0.5,
            "power": 2
        }```

[vague shoal]

OHH SO YOU CAN MAKE A TECTURE

So maybe we can do something similar with clouds if mojang allows it

[wise hinge]

oh w

[white willow]

no. clouds wouldnt be a simple texture replace

plus you can already change clouds texture

[vague shoal]

I know that but they could do something similar to it

Like idk model change or something

Make it smooth on the edges

[white willow]

volumetric clouds would have a noise map parameter youd likely be able to control (assuming they go realistic and not blocky). then you could adjust stuff like the density, absorption, scattering etc

[tribal trail]

wish it was colored floodfill

[white willow]

real

[quick beacon]

Tried to edit these in editor but they seem bugged because they didn't update.

[tribal trail]

wouldn't mind if they replace pointlights with colored floodfill

[white willow]

my editor keeps crashing

[quick beacon]

Load your editor world with deferred off

[white willow]

same. would we lose block light shadows? yea but whatever

i mean, there are ways to do it with floodfill, but its hard and not cheap

[white willow]

it loads by default with it on

[quick beacon]

"texture": "textures/environment/caustics",
It can be any file path.

[white willow]

guess i gotta eyeball it

[white willow]

you can utilize a directional lightmap to have it affect pbr though

but caustics on a first glance need quite a bit of work

[pale urchin]

Yeah. It seems always project from top down regardless of the sun direction

[white willow]

yea which looks bad

theres also no attenuation

or is it decay

one of the two

its always the same strength at all times

tiny caustics

[white willow]

keeps telling me no file found

im an idiot

rtx caustics small edition

they do however really should take sun position into account too. them not rendering on walls very well looks quite bad

and their strength needs some kind of dynamic decay

i think rtx caustics are a bit too soft, but something around here for intensity would be a good spot

and the lowest intensity btw is 1

[pale urchin]

Weird how your head is angles and still shows the caustics

As if it's just a terrain problem

[faint snow]

Does deferred have colored lighting

[white willow]

yes with point lights

[tribal trail]

i really love soft caustics

[still zenith]

It's because the face at an angle isn't perfectly orthogonal to the up vector. We are applying this to caustics to prevent them from streaking down vertical faces. We have experimented with triplanar mapping, which looks really good, but is expensive. Maybe something we can deliver in the future.

saturate(dot(vec3(0, 1, 0), worldNormal))

[quick beacon]

Math

[silent zealot]

yeah we should ban math in this discord. Especially vectors and matrices.

[white willow]

interesting. would be nice to see some adjustments to how its handled in the future. its nice to have but, looks very out of place as it stands

[pale urchin]

agreed. the caustics looks off when it's not aligned with the sun angle

[silent zealot]

I presume t his is during night?

[white willow]

nope daytime

[silent zealot]

Mojang making me jump back into updating my deferred rendering pack? In 2025? Huge!

[still zenith]

Thanks for the feedback! We have a good list of follow up items to fold in now for caustics. 👍 Keep it coming. 🙂

[white willow]

default intensity value would be great if near rtx. very soft caustics as a base would be great. (ik rtx and deferred handle this differently.) but even at the lowest power, they are way too bright

would also be cool to see the waves skew and manipulate the texture

larger caustics with a power of 6 actually looks kinda neat

[tribal trail]

vanilla lightning should be less visible when point lights are on

[pale urchin]

Pretty sure it is

[white willow]

hm im starting to see how the power system works

it adjusts the distribution of lighting on the caustics

1 is uniformly lit

6 is the most varied

[tribal trail]

not really

it's stronger now than before

[sonic canopy]

Looks like it just turns off fog and transparency fade to opaque. Weird how they added a new uniform that modifies another uniform, instead of just changing the value of FogAndDistanceControl from the CPU, but maybe there's more functionality that will be added in the future

[pale urchin]

What's that for exactly?

[white willow]

but heres my basic feedback. intensity and strength should reduce as the water gets deeper. its hard to visualize with the water lighting bug but this would help a lot. the brighter caustics look fine on surface level. if theres a way to get it to render on the sides of textures that isnt super expensive that would be great, it would be cool to see the pattern manipulate the underwater light shafts, wave based manipulation of the texture would be cool too. Generally the caustics are too bright in most cases and feel out of place, but they will be a nice addition when they are done

[sonic canopy]

It makes the fog apply only between 99000 and 100000 distance, and it makes transparency fade to opaque between 0 and 100000 blocks

[rocky halo]

So I was true ?

[sonic canopy]

Not exactly, it only applies to transparent blocks fading to opaque

[rocky halo]

So sugar cane ?

[sonic canopy]

But not to grass as it's being culled from the CPU logic, not from shaders. Although for this reason we cannot know whether this change also applies to it, so it still might

[rocky halo]

Maybe the list of transparent block to opaque would be expanded too. But thanks veka to answer me

[white willow]

the local expusre stuff though should be amazing

my nighttime is incredibly bright right now though. not sure why

[pale urchin]

That's a, pretty huge distance

I'll assume that it's to just disable the fade for now

[sonic canopy]

Probably. Or.. distant horizons on bedrock? Maybe it's related to some camera tech. We'll likely know more in the future

[tribal trail]

i know

i think

[white willow]

what would it be

because this is as bright as daytime right now

like this is bad

[pale urchin]

I noticed it too

[sonic canopy]

Regarding this one, it seems to have sRGB -> linear conversion, so it might be a part of deferred in the future. It seems to be an entity-like object that is part of the world, can accept texture, and can have its Z bias be modified to appear on top or behind of objects. Might also be a part of UI. But in any case, this seems quite interesting and I'm really curious as to what it will be used for eventually.

[white willow]

its real chat

[silent zealot]

What exactly?

[white willow]

local exposure

[silent zealot]

#1349051137512443924 message

[white willow]

well yea but it has a config you can disable

which is cool

Not deferred but here's a great example of local exposure for anyone wondering. LE off

LE on

[tribal trail]

HOW

[tribal trail]

Omg

[white willow]

Keep in mind this is taken on Java but the general idea of what local exposure does for deferred should be the same

It's hard to test right now with how dark emissives are though

But in theory it should be really great

[white willow]

New file in the renderer folder called deferred configs

[pale urchin]

You can increase the strength of the emission no?

[white willow]

Yea and i probably will. But the biggest thing I wanna test is bright suns

But unfortunately my college schedule is dumb and has me in a class right now (3pm-6pm)

[tribal trail]

how to add custom caustics?

[vague shoal]

What’s this

What does local exposure mean

[vague shoal]

Oh

[quasi trench]

DEFERRED UPDATE?

[quick beacon]

Water caustics 🔥

[quasi trench]

woahzaaa

i need fancy water

im assuming for now you can add in rtx caustics and it’ll work?

[white willow]

What did you do 💀

[white willow]

Yea but it looks terrible

[quasi trench]

oh no

[white willow]

Also I reviewed some old RTX footage where the current caustics were used

They looked so good 😭

The caustics being static in deferred I think actually adds to how out of place they look

[quasi trench]

they dont move like in rtx?

[white willow]

Nope

Only animated

But static in position

The texture doesn't scroll

[quasi trench]

aw man

[white willow]

Which I think is a major downside

[white willow]

@quasi trench RTX caustics in deferred

[quasi trench]

probably has to be made in a proper way then

[white willow]

Its not good 😭

But there should definitely be a position offset added to them at the bare minimum here

[quasi trench]

i like how fancy it looks but you’re right its static

[quasi trench]

i think this could help yeah

any variation is nice

[white willow]

I've done a noise based procedural "caustics" system before

Offsetting the texture looked way better

[quasi trench]

i trust you on that

mojang let him cook

[white willow]

Well, I did it with a shader graph

Idk how to uh

Do it in code

Lol

And it's original basis was clouds

(Not volumetric)

[pale urchin]

Could you tecnically just bake the offsetting into the texture

[white willow]

Probably

What I did was use a time graph and divide it by a tiling and offset node, which would repeat and tile the texture and used a second noise texture going in a different direction at a different speed to make it look random

[ornate hollow]

Oo

THE PERFECT ONE IS HERE

[ornate hollow]

👍

[white willow]

I think I'm gonna make my own custom texture. I found a way to do it

[ornate hollow]

GG for ps5 user

[vague shoal]

Heck yeah

[ornate hollow]

Deferred bug on ps5

GG

In 1.21.80.20

Two of these not the same device

[tribal trail]

i edited rtx one

[white willow]

Ye I'm talking about fully custom though

[rocky halo]

woaw imagine if you use Homer Simpson as caustic

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/bee-honey-bee-gif-648090940468114108

[ornate hollow]

Gg

This is another one

[white willow]

Oh what the hell

[ornate hollow]

Yes

ps5 user got cook

When enable deferred

If you move

You will see like that

[quick beacon]

I find this cool

[rocky halo]

voize

void version of blaze

[quasi trench]

oh no

i hope my ps5 pro avoids that

[quasi trench]

prizma cooking

[white willow]

ok so some testing with the new exposure stuff. it does do its job for the most part

but it definitely has a hard cap

8000 sun illuminance right now

also disabling that local exposure value does nothing

but it doesnt really clip straight to white anymroe

[stark harness]

Dose the water caustics make performance worse

[ornate hollow]

No

[stark harness]

Are they ever going to make the ssr not so blurry because I kinda liked how they use to look now they kinda look bad

[white willow]

likely will get fixed. but ssr would typically work like this if it were roughness based.

except the blurriness would be varied

low roughness would be relatively clear, and high roughness would be blurred/not reflected

but yea definitely seems like there was an oopsie made somewhere

imo the blur looks great on blocks

terrible on water

the blur though is quite intense

[stark harness]

I wish that they could make the ssr also more screen space

[white willow]

theyve already extended the range alot from where it used to be

the range on blocks feels quite bad though imo

i mean this already captures mostly the whole scene

[stark harness]

I think they definitely need to brighten it up a little bit and make the range more

[white willow]

well reflections being dark seems to be a bit of a game issue right now

or im dumb

one of the two

cuz i just brightened it up wiht one change

but me going and fixing the look of reflections, causes my night and daytime shadows to get nuked

[stark harness]

Yeah that looks better

[white willow]

ok so alot of my caustics complaints are fairly gone after doing a lot of tweaking

i did a lot of tweaking with the actual texture itself

although main thing still is that the texture should scroll

also appears that the textures tiles funky

[stark harness]

Yeah I really don't like how Pixelated the default caustics are

[white willow]

the idea behind the original ones are cool

but i decided to take the higher res ones and do some blurring and noise to soften their edges

[stark harness]

Yeah but I think the Pixelated look doesn't suit the water

[white willow]

it fits the game though. if you look very closely at the pixelated texture, it 1-1 lines up with the actual block texture and can influence normal maps

its a pixel aligned texture

but my caustics arent the pixelated ones

mine are the high res rtx ones

[white willow]

idk maybe im weird and appreciate this kind of stuff as its a really neat detail

my pack wont use the vanilla texture because its an overwhelmingly negative reaction despite me liking it

but i can appreciate the idea

[still zenith]

Sorry about that. We're listening. Stay tuned. 🙏

[white willow]

haha no worries. most people seem to be upset with the actual caustics texture itself

[still zenith]

All good. I have no worries. 😉

[white willow]

idk i remember seeing that texture back in the old rtx showcases and was like WOAH, that fits way better then what we got initially

[still zenith]

Same texture 💯

[white willow]

yep

im gonna do some editing of that one and see what i can do with it

[still zenith]

Can't wait to see the results. You always work magic. We'll be testing the end product that you publish, almost immediately. 🙂

[white willow]

😄

[ornate hollow]

GG aaj

Aajabrams

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/tiktok-dog-awkward-dog-confused-awkward-confused-dog-gif-2881577801438605193

[ornate hollow]

Not Mali Gpu now

[white willow]

gave them a cool corner highlight

ok not gonna lie this is kinda cool

a bit of a blur and some sharpening to generate a small amount of noise cleans the look up a little

[ornate hollow]

Caustic on the side of block

Did you see that?

[white willow]

yea its faint

this isnt good but looks cool

[still zenith]

Sorry! We have a fix incoming!

[still zenith]

I LOVE CUTE DOGGOS! How did you know!?

[still zenith]

In particular, that is a bug with the new local exposure. You can tell because the corruption pattern is in little groups of rectangles across the screen. 😉

[vague shoal]

He he im actually making a robot dog rn

[white willow]

interesting. thats a very weird thing to happen. but i havent really experimented with any exposure related stuff

[vague shoal]

Actually I like this

[still zenith]

Oh I have enough real doggos to deal with, don't you worry. No room for even more dogs, robot or otherwise. 🤣

[still zenith]

Yeah, check out this graph. Everything <= 0 is undefined. Depending on the GPU vendor/driver, they will return different things to undefined calls like this. Nvidia tends to return 0, but other drivers are more literal with their evaluation.

Thus the NaNs on some devices, but not others

[white willow]

ah i see. i had a weird issue with the java shader i was working on where the sky wouldnt be drawn on AMD devices. We love driver inconsistencies

[still zenith]

We love driver inconsistencies

[white willow]

i had to write the original sky to a separate color buffer, then call that color buffer within the depth check function. its a bad solution but it works for now

[still zenith]

if it works...sometimes that's all you need

[white willow]

yep. the entire gradient smoothing doesnt work but at least it looks somewhat normal for amd users

rather than being a sky that rapidly blinks from black to colored

[still zenith]

Whoa, wait, what? 🙂

You have issues with something in the new preview unique to Nvidia devices?

[white willow]

oh no no

haha thats for my project

[still zenith]

Ah ok, #whew

🙂

[white willow]

yea, that wouldve been a really interesting issue 😭

this one is interesting, used a painterly effect on it, then did a small radius blur

as well as tweaked the levels of the texture

[still zenith]

Nice!

[white willow]

its a bit brighter than id like but it works

yea i mess with these tweaks quite a bit

[tribal trail]

it's not fixing my issue with glowing items making screen black

[white willow]

uh culling much?

these kinds of maps still dont run super well, but having point lights off does make it far more playable than before

[tribal trail]

tbh it's really cute texture, i was thinking about going back to it and just edit it

[white willow]

map runs the exact same with point lights on

😭

underwater jank moment

[tribal trail]

that was something that i did yesterday

[white willow]

tbh i have an edit of both, i might just do a subpack that users can swtich between cuz yea

[tribal trail]

AAjab, is refraction still planned?

watter looks so flat when it's not reflecting anything :c

i love deferred so much now

[white willow]

water in general needs some adjustments i think. The fog underwater is quite insane. or at least too close to the player

theres some stuff that just feel rather wrong with the underwater visals and idk how to explain them

[tribal trail]

using bow still makes my screen much darker

but it's not as bad as before

[tribal trail]

nevermind, it's still bad

[pale urchin]

I got six puppies

[white willow]

deferred if it was on PS1

oh wait i had fog on

its actually kinda funny how the game looks terrible and then the fog is just high res

stupid low res and ultra settings

even lower resolution image

this seems to be the lowest i can go without the game crashing on me

we got even lower (taau this time)

i put my monitor in 4x3 for this lmao

fire footage

[ornate hollow]

Playable

I can't even 30fps on that resolution with low setting

[viscid moth]

is water fog bugged

can't get anything to work

[white willow]

water fog in the fog files?

[viscid moth]

yes, volumetric to be specific
i can change the air fog for that biome
but water is the same across all the biomes

[white willow]

water fog in the files is now obsolote

fog is controlled in the water file

[viscid moth]

huh

[white willow]

cdom, suspened sediment and chlorophyll

[viscid moth]

oh wow

ohhhhhhhhh

[white willow]

those affect the fog denisty now

yea, took me a while to figure it out too

[viscid moth]

so that's what the whole thing with clarifications in 1.21.70.26 was about

thanks man

[white willow]

probably

no problem

[viscid moth]

my bad it was in 1.21.70.24
this allows for custom wave for every biome

[white willow]

from what i understand its not functional yet though sadly

but im very excited about that feature

[viscid moth]

oh yeah they haven't enabled it yet
they did say

However, these components are intended for future use with the Deferred Technical Preview and have no effect in current builds, Preview or otherwise. With this change, Deferred resource pack rules have changed slightly

BIG Waves in deep ocean biome go BRRRRR

[wise hinge]

the app crashes when i try to reload files using
/reload all

[viscid moth]

waiting on water docs update 💀

[white willow]

same

i have it all set up but im just curious about how it actually works

i can piece it together but the name "power" felt a little misleading at first

[viscid moth]

i am just waiting on the "texture" part

[white willow]

oh thats simle

you can define a completely custom file path

i added in my own caustics folder within textures

[viscid moth]

inside the rp so like
water/caustics

[white willow]

"texture": "textures/caustics/caustics.png",

[viscid moth]

oh ok

[white willow]

you dont have to follow that

but thats what i did

[viscid moth]

wait that would mean custom caustics for every biome via that client biome thing they haven't enabled

endless possiblities

[white willow]

probably yea

thats a lot of work though

[viscid moth]

it is

[white willow]

if they were fully procedural and based off the waves it wouldnt be an issue though

cuz your change in waves would change them

[viscid moth]

yeah that' would be better and accurate

[white willow]

i do hope they can add some form of wave manipulation to these

i dont mind the texture system but the lack of movement definitely doesnt look great

[viscid moth]

how about making a caustic generator based of the waves
then you generate the image and insert it in the json

[white willow]

RTX offsets the texture coordinates for movement

deferred could and likely should also do that

[viscid moth]

yeah

still waiting on custom point lights tho 💀

[white willow]

then you could have that movement be skewed by the current wave pattern

[viscid moth]

hmm yeah

[white willow]

that was something i was working on for betterRTX but i couldnt figure it out and gave up lmao

although my understanding of shader dev was near 0 at that time

[viscid moth]

how about rn

could you do it

[white willow]

Still probably not. I've still got a lot to learn when it comes to that

Have I implemented a full PBR system? Yes, could I tell someone how to do it? Nope

Next topic I wanna learn is ray marching though

That opens the door to so much

Whether it's SSR, or volumetrics

And whatever other use cases for Ray marching are out there. There's so many

[quasi trench]

java?

jk

[tribal trail]

Haha

[stark harness]

For some reason on ps5 pro there's black specs and dots and on Xbox series x there's not

[white willow]

Yep devs know about it

Should hopefully be fixed next week

[gaunt sparrow]

let's go

[quasi trench]

nooo

[stark harness]

So I guess it's just a ps5 problem

And on phone to

[proud pike]

How does it look so different, what changed in like 2 updates that made this drastic of a difference

-# looks great btw

[tribal trail]

Fog

And prizma sunsets always looked good(with 1.3 even better)

[proud pike]

I did notice that, what about the newest update?

[proud pike]

That's true...

[white willow]

Caustics and local exposure

[proud pike]

Hmm

[white willow]

And some changes to the sunset/sunrise transitions

[proud pike]

How much of a difference is local exposure making?

[white willow]

That I don't know. Disabling it does nothing

[proud pike]

Oh

Ok then

[white willow]

In theory it would be helping a ton with over exposure

Which it looks like it does, but it's hard to tell when the image is the exact same even after disabling

And also when the current exposure won't react to bright sunlight but will react to a silly pink bow

Doesn't really make a lot of sense atm

[tribal trail]

I may be wrong but I think it fix shadows

[tribal trail]

Doesn't fix problem with glowing items 😞

[white willow]

Nor does it really compensate for bright sunlight illuminance

[tribal trail]

🤓

My pink bow is not silly

[white willow]

It just doesn't handle anything remotely close to white super well

My sea lanterns cause it to freak out as well

And my sea lantern is on average only about 25 emissive

With like maybe 6 pixels at a peak of 40

My glowstone is brighter and doesn't have issues

My glowstone is between 215 and 255 💀

And it's still dark too 😭😭😭

[tribal trail]

True

but my bow is not silly

[vague shoal]

Cook

[tribal trail]

on vs off

[bitter kiln]

what tool is this?

[quick beacon]

Editor

[bitter kiln]

so pretty :)

[wise hinge]

very aces

[tribal trail]

thank youu

[tribal trail]

tbh it's not that much different from hable

aces with low contrast looks the same as hable to me

[wise hinge]

Wasn't your hable config using high contrast?

[tribal trail]

yup

[wise hinge]

[pale urchin]

Looks like you got your light balance back.

[tribal trail]

yess 🥹

im so happy

[pale urchin]

How do caves and night time look?

[tribal trail]

caves?

[pale urchin]

Yeah

[white willow]

Tbh I have a lot to fix with my pack still. Haven't had any time to work on it 😭

[pale urchin]

Yup. That's a good amount of dark

[white willow]

Man the default floodfill looks great now

They did a good job with that. It used to be just vanilla I'm pretty sure

[tribal trail]

it's a bit too bright

brighter than vanilla

[white willow]

Personally I'm fine with that cuz vanilla floodfill is beyond flat

[tribal trail]

i was right to not try to fix dark shadows 🤓

[white willow]

These issues weren't from that

They were present before

[tribal trail]

ooh

[white willow]

Just my lighting being harsh, fog being blinding at times

Lots of stuff I need to resolve

Yea my pack is already right back where it was before adjusting for the shadows

A lot of my normals need some heavy reworks

[tribal trail]

ooh

[tribal trail]

i love item pbr so much

[sonic canopy]

It helps to have ex-bedrock-shader devs on your team

[vague shoal]

I remember you

[bitter kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/franzj-sus-gif-23944159

[white willow]

Any note on when the deferred docs will be updated with the caustics info

[vague shoal]

Well i completely forgot the resolution slider existed and I turned it down a bit and now my performance is ALOT better now

I’m getting 30 to 60 fps with almost everything at ultra

[white willow]

take 2 of more realistic caustics

[quasi trench]

ooooo

coooookkkkkkkinggggg

[tribal trail]

that looks harsh

[white willow]

In what way, it's very soft in general. I've adjusted the power distribution a bit

Overall I'm happy with the look though and it's much better than default for the high res caustics

I added some edge softness and a small amount of noise to smooth it out

[civic radish]

How can I remove water waves, reflections and get old water look before 1.21.20 update

[bitter kiln]

Wish I could run deferred in non-preview :(

[white willow]

funny circle sun

[quasi trench]

ayo

[wise hinge]

bloom

[tribal trail]

that would be a disaster

[ornate hollow]

?

It not that bad

I don't know what issues is it

[civic radish]

Use better render dragon 1.4.4 or 1.4.5 and press force enable deffered

[sonic canopy]

Yeah, one of the LeviLamina devs maintains a fork of BetterRD that works on latest versions
https://github.com/dreamguxiang/BetterRenderDragon-xmake

[bitter kiln]

She hates people complaining when things break with her packs due to them not being run on preview. 😭

[rocky halo]

No but it's clearly not finished yet and if it would be in stable well people will say "ewww we waited so long for a something not finished gngngngn"

[bitter kiln]

Everyone disagrees but that’s why she doesn’t like it haha

There are obviously more reasons, but I was just poking fun

[white willow]

Too be fair, deferred isn't really meant to be used in release versions of the game right now. She has a point. You can't expect the pack to work properly in an unsupported version

[bitter kiln]

Of course, it’s pretty unstable right now, well for some devices

I just think it looks super pretty and I wish I could just always use it

[white willow]

and then ontop of that, complain to the dev for something not working with your work around. Like back when SSS was added, people complained to no end about missing textures and all of them were BRD users

Aside from a few people who weren't aware of it being preview required

[rocky halo]

for all devices*

[ornate hollow]

only pc

[pale urchin]

There are bugs with deferred on practically every platform

[proud pike]

Hey that's me 🙃

[civic radish]

I'm best sigma 🗿🍷

[pale urchin]

Good for you

[tribal trail]

ooh thats me :3

[tribal trail]

nuh uh

[white willow]

raytracing 🗣️

[wintry sigil]

this is so cool I wish consoles were real

[long ruin]

I wish consoles were real too... :(

[white willow]

why consoles have to be fake... sigh

[tribal trail]

hmmm