Graphics General

[silent zealot]

It's fine, but I usually end up taking screenshots just to compare

[white willow]

I swear my game crashes more on relog than in actual gameplay 😭

This might be a skill issue on my part idk

[tribal trail]

my game has never crashed before 😳

[silent zealot]

Minor tweaks using Editor is very nice since it's hard for me to compare using screenshots

[white willow]

It happened to me a few times on a stream I did a few months ago. I was making textures for a stream and just crash. So sad

[still zenith]

Like...never ever? 😀

[tribal trail]

never with deferred

[white willow]

But I got my twitch cape

[tribal trail]

and as I said I rejoin 60 times (even more when I do normalmaps)

[silent zealot]

Once deferred all settled, i await the culling of supported devices and focus on otpimisation

[white willow]

I have noticed the relog crashes are less on preview. But when I'm working on RTX, it's so common. Like I think it's my pc

Cuz it still happens anyway

[tribal trail]

normalmaps are hard... but I love them

[still zenith]

The rejoining that you all speak of, that is to see new textures in game? After you change your pack assets?

[sonic canopy]

There is a blockbench extension that released recently for PBR preview

[silent zealot]

Correct

[white willow]

New textures, fogs etc

[tribal trail]

yes

[white willow]

The only ones that auto update are the global jsons and stuff

Color grading too

[tribal trail]

wait, they do?!

[still zenith]

Ooo, yes we need fog in the Editor.

[tribal trail]

oooh

[white willow]

Yep those don't need relog

[tribal trail]

in editor

i don't use editor that much

[silent zealot]

The recent editor integration solves the issue when trying to compare minor tweaks to the lighting. What we ask is the same for fog, pbr, and whatever else i missed as its sometimes hard to tell with before and after since rejoning a world can take a min. Screenshots kind of help

[white willow]

This would be the big thing to drive me to use the editor

That and possibly making the code a bit simpler to read but idk

[sonic canopy]

How would PBR preview work? Via a texture reload button? Or do you Invision realtime texture painting in editor mode

[tribal trail]

i.e. I use it when I make lightning changes, but I mostly work on textures and pbr, and the editor is not useful for that

[silent zealot]

Either one works so long it takes less than 10s as I have a memory of a goldfish and cannot see a difference

[white willow]

Left typical formatting. Right editor formatting

[silent zealot]

How accurate is it? Can I have a link for a post to make in #1182087588555792395 ?

[silent zealot]

I much prefer lefts array

[white willow]

Yeah I had to spend a good bit of time refactoring it

[silent zealot]

😔 also...i hate editing deferred files as i have formatting on save which alphabetizes my json...confusing for the keyframes lol

[white willow]

I think I'm using that term right

[still zenith]

I love all this feedback. I'm taking notes. 😀

I can't promise we'll fix everything, but knowing your pain points as we develop new things is super helpful.

And it helps us budget for what pieces we revisit and improve.

[white willow]

Of course not everything can be fixed or needs to be. Glad to be able to help though

[sonic canopy]

^ https://github.com/JannisX11/blockbench-plugins/pull/545

[white willow]

Another thing that would be great though, like emissive desaturation, data driven exposure control would be great as well

[tribal trail]

is this a good time to say that SSAO would be cool?

[sonic canopy]

Idk how accurate it is in respect to PBR used in deferred, but if anything it'd be possible to update it to use the same model as deferred as long as they don't change PBR implementation or bring back access to shader source

[silent zealot]

Is there a reset to default button for gamma?

If not please add thanks

[tribal trail]

YES! we need that

[sonic canopy]

^

[white willow]

Benefits of this would be just having a fixed brightness for people that want a specific look or specific feel. This (while niche) also helps with panorama creation

[tribal trail]

reset button for gamma and SSAO we need

[sonic canopy]

Fixed exposure + no tonemapping is also a good way to judge the absolute brightness of your pack

[silent zealot]

Yeah I messed up my gamma so if anyone here does remember the defauly value so i can edit in options.txt that be great

[white willow]

GTAO would be 👌

But that might be too much

Idk

SSAO is a good start

Vanilla AO and realtime lighting don't mix well

[tribal trail]

I call it all ssao in short because thay are screen space and they are AO

[silent zealot]

Ok, but what about clouds

[white willow]

Standard SSAO isn't that great tbh that's why I said GTAO

[tribal trail]

ssao more important for me

[tribal trail]

gtao or hbao

[white willow]

Doesn't HBAO also work on dynamic object

That would be nice

[tribal trail]

every AO works on dynamic objects?

[white willow]

I may be stupid

I'm also tired

[sonic canopy]

Not every

[tribal trail]

what about every screen space ao

I thought they all work on dynamic objects and on everything

well 🤷‍♀️

[tribal trail]

I may be stupid then

[sonic canopy]

Screen space yeah but there are other methods as well, with precomputed AO for unchanging geometry or scenes

[tribal trail]

yea, but we talked about screenspace methods like gtao,ssao or hbao

[sonic canopy]

Ah I interpreted that as a more general statement

[jagged badge]

Does this now mean 0.0 is sunrise?

Or does it mean 0.0 is midnight (literally the only example I can think of is query.time_of_day)

[faint snow]

ji

[quasi trench]

types ji

leaves

[silent zealot]

Either Im blind or this is a new limit

[silent zealot]

https://discord.com/channels/523663022053392405/1270171053561217214

The devs about to reorganize the deferred rendering just to mess with me

[silent zealot]

I messed up

I put the wrong key lolol

I need to tweak my build script

Ohhhh

It cant use string only arrays?

[silent zealot]

😄 found another use...to see subsurface tweaks between each values

Oh no...the sun no longer tilts with deferred turned off

@still zenith Is this now the intended behaviour?

[silent zealot]

Very interesting...the moment I fix this, I get new errors regarding horizon blend stops and the glare shape

[vague shoal]

Rip

[sonic canopy]

Does RTX sun tilt?

[graceful iron]

It can if you use the deferred configs in RTX

it’s kinda janky tho, especially when paired with BetterRTX

[sonic canopy]

Is it the case in latest preview as well?

Btw I fixed sun angle in BRTX, but the update hasn't been released yet, it might happen next week when stable releases and breaks all BetteRTX shaders again

[graceful iron]

Not too sure tbh…

[graceful iron]

Water

This is pretty big

[quick beacon]

While we wait for the docs. You can copy your water setting from Editor and add it in your json.

pack/water/water.json

[proven hemlock]

The docs have been been posted here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/minecraft/creator/documents/deferredlighting/watercustomization?view=minecraft-bedrock-stable

[quick beacon]

Yay :3

[pale urchin]

Since water settings have identifiers, does this mean we can somehow change them dynamically in the future?

[quick beacon]

I guess soon we can use different water config for said biomes?

[sonic canopy]

🤞 i hope it won't involve scripting

[quick beacon]

Maybe they can make it so we can define the water ID in the biome_client.json file, perhaps?

[white willow]

oh like fog

[sonic canopy]

yes that sounds like a good idea

[white willow]

that would be nice because then we can determine things like swamps to be grosser looking etc

[proven hemlock]

Hm these are some good ideas 😁

[white willow]

what have i done

[white willow]

ive made ice cubes

[tribal trail]

it's glass brick wall 🥲

[white willow]

oh

[vague shoal]

HOLY MOLY LEGO WATER

[quick beacon]

We can disable point lights in game now?

[tribal trail]

what?!

how?

[quick beacon]

No idea what I did

Ahh, If you disable the shadows from them, they just don't work lol

[white willow]

oh well thats a bug and a half

[quick beacon]

Correction: When you set point light shadows on "Low"

[white willow]

i guess ive done something

[silent zealot]

😄 Updated #1270171053561217214 to include the SSS and water customisation docs links

[safe urchin]

Deferred sucks on Android

the water isn't looking well for me

[pale urchin]

SSR looks busted

[proud pike]

sure is, ive seen that happen for other people too

[rocky halo]

It's in preview and a big thing, don't expect deferred rendering with no bug

[proud pike]

alright, ill give obsidian a try

[graceful iron]

@proud pike #1182095383015456829 message
The only issue with larger packs is the fact that Obsidian scales textures from time to time

[proud pike]

might as well try generating normals for a 128x pack

[proud pike]

hmm

[silent zealot]

Anyone else have issues with water? It doesn't properly update when turning Deferred off/on

[proud pike]

water is having a lot of issues on different platforms

[graceful iron]

the thing I'm working on currently scales textures up to 8x

[silent zealot]

Very intriguing

[proud pike]

:o

[graceful iron]

I'd recommend using the CatRTX preset or the Plagued preset for higher resolution packs

also I've never tested a 128 pack with Obsidian, so Obsidian might just have a meltdown

[silent zealot]

So this is what happens when your max out all the water settings

Yep...water is broken

:/

@still zenith You're probably already aware of these issues. Any explanation you can think of why it occurs?

I figured out the issue I believe: https://vxtwitter.com/SmokeyStack_/status/1821318339878072681

[still zenith]

Hi @quick beacon, @blazing whale and @white willow . Could you please DM me your latest resource packs? 🙏

[graceful iron]

[white willow]

yep i can shortly

[graceful iron]

I wonder what they are gonna use them for

hopefully something cool

[silent zealot]

Its over...Mojang is now going to remove everything they utilised in their packs

[graceful iron]

lmao

best make sure you have a license in your pack

[blazing whale]

Ok

[vague shoal]

Interesting…

👀

https://tenor.com/view/ameno-meme-thinking-hmmm-gif-3844418297646103366

[long ruin]

I think that is to find out why the water is breaking

[vague shoal]

☹️

[still zenith]

Thank you. We just want to use them in play testing, but sites like mcpedl agitate the company site blockers. 🙂

[silent zealot]

Simply ask MS to buy mcpedl

[white willow]

sounds good. hope you enjoy

[graceful iron]

company adblocker

Makes sense ig

[vague shoal]

Imagine one of y’all’s pbr packs gets added as a screenshot in the preview changelogs

[white willow]

bro, id go bananas

[vague shoal]

Seriously that would be neat

[white willow]

real

[vague shoal]

Showing off a community made pbr pack every week

[still zenith]

This...is a really good idea. @real berry, ehh ehh?

[long ruin]

[white willow]

👀

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-parks-and-recreation-chris-pratt-amused-woah-gif-7644619

[silent zealot]

I think having only 3 rotations isnt that great

[white willow]

~~to be fair theres not many of us ~~

[still zenith]

Yet

[white willow]

thats true

im sure once this stuff fully releases and such more people will jump in

[vague shoal]

Deferred screenshot contest when

Winner gets screenshot in the preview changelog

[white willow]

a good chunk of the rtx texture pack makers havent jumped over yet

[silent zealot]

Also...waves really tank your fps

[long ruin]

Don't forget Prizma

[vague shoal]

Eh haven’t really bothered me

[silent zealot]

Yes...that's the 3 i was counting

[vague shoal]

Cough cough marketplace studios cough cough

[long ruin]

Thought you ment these 3

[silent zealot]

When a phone can be better than a laptop

Waves...at what cost

[white willow]

ive noticed this, im more consistently at around 60fps now. usually hover around 90

[long ruin]

Im surprised I can play Deferred at 50 FPS on my phone

[still zenith]

Omg, how could I forget!? @tribal trail, if I could get your latest pack as well, please. 🙏

[silent zealot]

Anyways, can we have wavy lava?

[vague shoal]

How about wavy leaves

[white willow]

Y E S

[silent zealot]

Contrary to popular belief, leaves are not liquids

[vague shoal]

Yeah but it would be more realistic

[white willow]

taking someone elses suggestion, i feel like that would fit better based off weather

[vague shoal]

Ok maybe not

We don’t have wind in mc

[still zenith]

I imagine that with custom, data-driven blocks, the desire to apply wave effects might not stop at water and lava. Would I be right?

[silent zealot]

You and kayla think alike

[still zenith]

That's one of the highest compliments I've ever received. 🙂

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-arsenio-hall-semmi-coming-to-america-spitting-gif-885661656748894999

[still zenith]

Don't take that as a promise. I'm simply elaborating on their suggestions/request. 😉

[white willow]

that would be cool though

being able to define "waves" to custom blocks sounds cool

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/okily-dokily-okie-dokie-ok-kay-nerd-gif-11941985

[silent zealot]

Remind me again, can custom blocks be point lights?

[graceful iron]

Lmaooo

[still zenith]

I think there's a bug on that. Our intention is for that to work eventually.

[silent zealot]

Ok good...because if not then this is just salt in the wound:

To change the strength of a point light, refer to the documentation for lightEmission block components

[long ruin]

[graceful iron]

Speaking of point lights, are point lights and solid blocks with SSS still causing weird problems?

[still zenith]

Help me out here. In non-Deferred, you cannot change the lightEmission strength of a built-in light via data (e.g., a torch), but you can define any lightEmission level for custom, data-driven blocks. Right?

And the part that doesn't work in Deferred is custom, data-driven blocks?

[white willow]

https://tenor.com/view/jason-mantzoukas-brooklyn-nine-nine-b99-brooklyn99-adrian-pimento-gif-13205977

[silent zealot]

Yes sir

[graceful iron]

Sounds about right

~~please add custom point lights to RTX ~~

[silent zealot]

Hence, salt in the wound since we cant edit vanilla blocks so that snippet is just taunting us

[vague shoal]

Don’t forget @viscid moth

[white willow]

is this needed with RTGI though?

since emissives can just give off light instead

[graceful iron]

candles

[white willow]

i forgor about those

[graceful iron]

would also allow to change colors of other point lights

So end rods could actually be pink

[tribal trail]

Sure ☺️

[graceful iron]

lmao

[white willow]

oh no

[graceful iron]

no nitro?

[white willow]

it would say file too large

this just says cannot message

[graceful iron]

They also have no nitro so it might be a problem both ways

[proud pike]

Is the pack really that big?

[white willow]

i think prizma is under 25mb though

[proud pike]

This

[white willow]

its under 8

[graceful iron]

oh

the more you know ig

[proud pike]

It's a DM config issue on either end

[tribal trail]

not 1.3 hehe

[white willow]

holy f

[white willow]

pov normals and heightmaps

and probably other stuff

[silent zealot]

Mines only 1.8MB

[proud pike]

Send the pack to quirky, he could send it over to aaja

:p

[white willow]

how could she send it to me?

without nitro

[proud pike]

Mediafire

Basically any cdn

No network blocks for ya

[tribal trail]

nah, I already sent it

it's fine :>

[proud pike]

Oh great

:3

[tribal trail]

what?

there is a lot of good stuff there 🤷‍♀️

[white willow]

ik

just the size caught me off guard

[silent zealot]

Don't use MCPEDL or linkvertise or other crappy redirects

[tribal trail]

do you draw your pbr or generate it?

[proud pike]

[silent zealot]

Originally batched all the textures and greyscaled them. Then tweaked it

We love python

[tribal trail]

yeah it makes sense

I drew everything and (I'm probably doing something wrong) but when I save files or change them further, the file size increases

[silent zealot]

You're just goated that's why

[white willow]

my pack is 2mb rn

[tribal trail]

plus I have two subpacks, heightmap and normalmap so that's twice as many textures

[white willow]

rtx is 11 (custom panorama)

[silent zealot]

This is basically my folder setup for the PBR stuff. All this gets compiled into proper texture set jsons and in the correct directories

[tribal trail]

also this abomination

[white willow]

do NOT get me started on when i need to fix that thing

i almost dont want to

[silent zealot]

Oh are those chisled bookshelves?

[tribal trail]

I HAD TO DO IT TWICE

TWICE

[white willow]

i feel so bad

[tribal trail]

for normalmaps too 🥹

[tribal trail]

yes

divided into 64 textures

[white willow]

that thing, is demon

how to make pbr pack makers cry themselves to sleep every night

do the chiseled bookshelf

[silent zealot]

Make the Emissive channel only actually functional from 0-15 and anything higher just clamps back to 15 thus making it hard to differentiate the colours

[tribal trail]

There were worse things in my pbr life

update that makes your pack not load most textures correctly and you have to do literally everything texture from scratch

still not finished

[white willow]

pov you finished the chiseled bookshelf

i am on my elden ring arc now

[silent zealot]

1.21.30.23:

• Tweaked the textures for the chiseled bookshelf

[white willow]

boss music starts playing

[graceful iron]

This image is very real

I swear to god

If a certain category in the current Cat’s Labs poll wins

[white willow]

prepare for the dark souls boss lmao

[graceful iron]

I may have to face the shelf soon

[white willow]

i spent too long making that meme

im making it a sticker in my server now

its too perfect

[graceful iron]

Real

[tribal trail]

wait, you know how to make custom panorama?

[white willow]

yea

[tribal trail]

:0

[white willow]

kinda

its a little messy still

[graceful iron]

Imma ask Altaz how to make a good panorama soon

A panorama in the center of the Medieval RTX map sounds nice

[white willow]

mine has a few seams in the clouds

but thats cuz well you cant freeze them

[tribal trail]

I will also ask someone for help

:>

[white willow]

sticker now

[tribal trail]

i can't use it :<

[white willow]

no nitro

[graceful iron]

i might literally stream the entirety of me making the textures for a chiseled bookshelf in a discord channel when it happens

Maybe even with a green timer lmao

[white willow]

speedrun lmao

[quick beacon]

:) you need to accept our friend requests, please ^^

[hexed rover]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[silent zealot]

That, I believe, is fog

[hexed rover]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[white willow]

Yes

[pale urchin]

Would SSR look better if it didn't reject rays going behind blocks

[real berry]

great idea. I don't know if the changelog is the right place, since technically the screenshot there should be of new features, and there wouldn't be community usage of that when we draft it. 🙂 there are social rules we need to follow for safety reasons, so linking to external files can be tough. But I think this could make some good video content. noted! will think on how we might highlight community content.

[quasi trench]

Deferred pre trailers starting soon?

:doggysmurkW:

DTP behind the scenes development video?

:doggysmurkW:

[white willow]

Showing off community deferred packs/addons in an official way would be really awesome. Great way to bring publicity to the creators as well as show off how good we can be at what we do etc

[oak thicket]

There are many people that don’t know what dtp is

[white willow]

It would also raise awareness for that (which could end up being really bad)

But could also be really good

Only reason I say it could be bad is because of how many new people that would bring in and those people not understanding deferred is in development and things could be buggy etc

[real berry]

This is by design. We only need feedback from a small percentage of the player-base at this time.

[quasi trench]

also “ooo shaders”

[oak thicket]

“Rtx shaders”

[quasi trench]

[white willow]

You guys don't need the, this no worky shader bad, comments

That's not constructive nor helpful

[white willow]

Or or or the "this is bad, Java does it better" comments

Cuz it's bound to happen

[quick beacon]

Oooooo!

[silent zealot]

If you had to guestimate, what percentage of the playerbase knows about deferred rendering

[tribal trail]

:0

[sonic canopy]

the what 😱

[proud pike]

No way

Is this actually real?

CRAZY MOMENT RN

[tribal trail]

what is that

[sonic canopy]

https://github.com/Mojang/bedrock-samples/blob/781f838896a3994c2742706be726ddacd6850b7c/resource_pack/ui/settings_sections/general_section.json#L8518-L8543

[proud pike]

[pale urchin]

WOW

[white willow]

What am I looking at

[pale urchin]

Shader compiler

[white willow]

Oh

[pale urchin]

Implying custom shaders

[white willow]

That makes sense now

Why there was sdk,shader compiler being said everywhere

[quick beacon]

Guess I'm cooked.

[proud pike]

Sdk - software development kit

[white willow]

Yea

[sonic canopy]

It's currently in the debug section tho, so could be for internal use only. But it could also be a service that eventually will be used by creators, that overcomes the limitation of proprietary SDKs like I talked about here #1182095383015456829 message
Tho no idea how it'd overcome the limitation of playstation requiring shaders being shipped with the binary

[quick beacon]

What type of shaders would these be? I mean, would we be able to do with these? Improve existing deferred stuff? Add new shader stuff?

IF we ever get this.

[sonic canopy]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[white willow]

Whatever they'd give us I guess

[sonic canopy]

Could be just internal tooling as well, don't get hyped too much

[quick beacon]

I don't wanna be cooked

[white willow]

Which could be just base RD modifications

[white willow]

This is the most likely scenario

Whoops forgot to disable ping

[viscid moth]

deferred pack creators might be cooked but shaders stonks up rn

[white willow]

Unless our stuff would be compatible with them

[quick beacon]

Just learn graphic development

BE EXCITED!

We'll see what happens though. Maybe just an internal tool.

[sonic canopy]

if it is internal tool, we won't see anything at all 🙃

So ig we'll see if we see anything

[quick beacon]

Guess I'll start to make and learn shaders in Godot.

[viscid moth]

may be better devs with shader mods

[white willow]

@amber whale after looking at the SS more it does look oddly blurry

Not entirely sure why though

[vague shoal]

WHAT

SHADERS??

Yay I can finally call deferred a shader if it has some type of real shaders in it

[quick beacon]

Have a shader file with 1 line of shader code.

Now you can call your pack a shader

[vague shoal]

Maybe it’s for waving foliage????

[white willow]

It's more than likely an internal dev kit with the design of loading the new shader code quickly

Personally I wouldn't look into it

[vague shoal]

Womp

[vague shoal]

Very interesting

[amber whale]

probably cause mojang forces me to play at 4k res when im on a 2k res screen😭

[white willow]

Could be

I play at native 1440p with upscaling at it looks flawless

[amber whale]

shinyy totem

[white willow]

Example

[amber whale]

that looks soo good

[vague shoal]

Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll be able to finish my pbr pack this year

I’m too busy with my other big project

[sullen urchin]

Hey, was wondering if you can change the whole game contrast, I mean for e.g., make the graphics turning black and white?

Could that be done with fogs?

I’m quite intrigued

[white willow]

You can do that via color grading

Hold on

[sullen urchin]

With fogs, volumetric stuff?

[pale urchin]

Why would you use fog for that?

[sullen urchin]

that’s hella sick

[sullen urchin]

to be able to deactivate that at any time

[white willow]

These are really old btw

But it's still possible ofc

[silent zealot]

Colour grading per biome

[white willow]

That would be kinda cool

[white willow]

That doesn't exist unfortunately

[sullen urchin]

ah alright

[white willow]

But you can add desaturation and stuff via color grading

[sullen urchin]

Isn’t there some wiki explaining this stuff?

and how to add that to your RP

[white willow]

Yes hold on

Chexk out #1270171053561217214 message

[sullen urchin]

Thanks!

Ah that’s actually still in preview? You can no longer use the old system?

I mean isn’t there a way to use color grading in a stable version as a non experimental option?

[sonic canopy]

No there isn't, not for grayscale at least

[sullen urchin]

ah alright, thanks guys!

[graceful iron]

Trying to make a more realistic looking deferred pack
(I'm aware that my color coding is messed up)

If there is anything on how i can make this look more "realistic", please share

[vague shoal]

May I be able to try?

[graceful iron]

not yet no

[vague shoal]

Ok

[graceful iron]

everything has this bright cyan glow to it

its not an issue with color grading

[white willow]

sky color

sky is too bright

[graceful iron]

idk what im doing bruh

[silent zealot]

Use Editor for real time editing

[graceful iron]

i am

and i still dont know what im doing

there is so much stuff

when I'm in the editor and i mess around with the lighting settings, there is a split moment where the lighting looks correct and then the "bright cyan" looks like its just pasted above it

and i cant seem to find a solution for this even if i lower the lighting stuff

I think something might just be messed up for me because its still happening with other packs

(this is prizma)

[white willow]

disable and reenable reflections

ik it sounds weird

[graceful iron]

did that

uh

yeah

[white willow]

that fixed this for someone else

thats why i said to try it

[graceful iron]

it is a reflection bug tho

when i disabled reflections it did magically fix itself

[white willow]

its all good for me

but this is weird

[graceful iron]

Reflections OFF

Reflections LOW

Reflections ULTRA

what's hapenning bruh

[white willow]

What the heck

Idk how to fix this

[graceful iron]

everything feels very overwhelmingly broken on my side

so idk if I did something or my GPU isn't compatible

[silent zealot]

Same, but with water for me

[graceful iron]

It's near impossible for me to make any progress on stuff rn which kinda sucks

and I don't have enough knowledge of deferred on how to make the visuals look good anyways

[vague shoal]

This has happened to me

In every pbr pack

But it wasn’t this bad

[quasi trench]

day 1 of asking someone to get obsidian deferred bare bones pbr for me

[silent zealot]

What it looks like btw

Do I want to tweet this out?

[proud pike]

Very much dev stuff

[regal fox]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

Shader compiler 😄

[blazing whale]

What this?

[proud pike]

Something something development material shader compiler

[split mountain]

BRO WHEN ARE THERE GONNA BE GOOD SHADERS IN BEDROCK

[blazing whale]

interesting

[sonic canopy]

If u do, send the link plz, I don't have an account and twitter is very locked down nowadays

[viscid moth]

veka do you think this is just a shader compiler which can like compile to a deferred pack to json

I might be reaching very far here

[quick beacon]

Might just be their own compiler for the existing shader files

[sonic canopy]

Ok so here are the facts:

1. Material format was changed multiple times in previous previews - they added new properties which aren't being used anywhere in vanilla. Why would they add them and never use? And one of the added unused properties allows to overwrite texture properties through materials that are usually supplied by the game directly, why would they add that overwrite property to materials if they can (and always do) just set it from the game directly?
2. Some time ago, a new function appeared in shader source code

struct StandardSurfaceOutput {
    vec3 Albedo;
    float Alpha;
    float Metallic;
    float Roughness;
    float Occlusion;
    float Emissive;
    float Subsurface;
    vec3 AmbientLight;
    vec3 ViewSpaceNormal;
};
void StandardTemplate_CustomSurfaceShaderEntryIdentity(vec2 uv, vec3 worldPosition, inout StandardSurfaceOutput surfaceOutput) {}```
This function is present in a lot of fragment shaders, however currently it's completely empty and does nothing. It sure does have an interesting name tho, doesn't it.
3) And now we have something called shadersdk which is supposed to be some kind of online material compiler service. Online build server provided by Mojang is the only solution I can think of for compiling shaders for platforms with proprietary shader SDKs like PlayStation and Switch.

[viscid moth]

very interesting

[white willow]

If this is a community tool, I'd imagine it wouldn't allow full on shader dev.

Feel like that would kinda defeat the purpose of what they are working on

[quick beacon]

Personally I don't think it's gonna be full on custom shaders, because we have platforms like mobile and switch.

[sonic canopy]

My theory, based on the facts, is that it will be official shader support, but quite limited. We will be able to modify material.bin files by inserting our own shader code, and it all will be compiled on a remote server (but I hope they will also open source their compiler, without proprietary parts of course, so that we can use it locally or for unofficial 3rd party shaders that fully modify all source code). We will be able to load material.bin files from resource packs, which is huge. Shader capabilities will be (at least initially) very limited, currently it seems like we'd only be able to modify "inputs" for vanilla shader logic in fragment shader, such as albedo, alpha, MERS etc, but we wouldn't be able to change the underlying logic or calculations used in vanilla, which means you can't e.g. completely rewrite deferred, but you could add some specific small new features to it, like procedural puddles, rust or stylization effects. The scope of such shaders will be limited to VFX (e.g. flashlight, toon shading, dithering, color quantization) and utility shaders (e.g. chunk borders)
But remember, this is just a theory, a game shader theory. I don't currently know for sure if this is how it's going to work, and I might've gotten something (or everything) wrong in my analysis.

Also, this is completely arbitrary, but I feel like we'd see this feature release within the next 4 preview cycles. It's been in development long enough, and now it was developed to a point, that we can clearly see what this feature is, so I don't think we'd need to wait much longer for it

[tribal trail]

Has anyone else encountered random crashes with deferred?

[white willow]

Yes

Mainly when reloading though

[tribal trail]

like i play my world and game just freeze

[viscid moth]

deferred logic freeze

had been happening to me for a while

[quick beacon]

I believe they won't allow us to modify everything/rewrite deferred. I find it hard to see that happening.

Y'all game freezes? Guess I am lucky, LOL.

[sonic canopy]

Yeah probably, but I hope they will eventually allow that

[quick beacon]

We'll see what happens :)

[viscid moth]

maybe it's only exclusive to mp devs

[quick beacon]

They won't do exclusivity.

[sonic canopy]

Lmao most definitely not

That would be a disaster, imagine the public reaction to making marketplace exclusive features

[viscid moth]

i mean when the feature is polished and it's hidden

[quick beacon]

Even if it's hidden, it can't be used for public use.

[viscid moth]

technically they could fall under the term deferred and hide there

[quick beacon]

I don't know. For now we think this new compiler is only for internal use or to allow us to make/add shaders to the existing code.

[sonic canopy]

Custom surface shader snippet of code is also present in materials, unrelated to deferred, so I don't think so

I think there is a very low probability that a build server will be exclusive to partners, but imo the most likely scenario is that it will be open for everyone to use

[tribal trail]

are you still having this problem? and should i be worried? and if you don't have this problem anymore how did you manage to fix it?

[quick beacon]

yep.

[sonic canopy]

Otherwise hobbyists wouldn't be able to make shaders for PlayStation and soon Switch, and that would suck

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/mat-pat-game-theory-five-nights-at-freddy's-movie-fnaf-gif-7977763299378802749

[quick beacon]

You heard that guys. Start learning shader dev.

[viscid moth]

i didn't it it only happens to me when i change the jsons of the deferred for like 3 to 5 times
never fixed it

[quick beacon]

Hmm. My only guess would be because of the GPU. I heard that Bedrock doesn't work as well with RTX GPUs.

I dunno, just heard it.

[sonic canopy]

This will probably be enough tbh https://thebookofshaders.com

[quick beacon]

Pin?

[viscid moth]

evil mojang plan: this is hypothetical
two deferred modes
one is internal and only exclusive to mp devs
this is limited/compiled shaders under the term deferred
another one is public play thing which is what we have

[sonic canopy]

Nah no need for now, let's just wait and see what happens first

[quick beacon]

Okii

[vague shoal]

So could we be getting shaders to help make deferred better?

[viscid moth]

possibly but not entirely shaders

[sonic canopy]

Yes! But also to make utility shaders or VFX

[sonic canopy]

They are entirely shaders, just very limited

[quick beacon]

^

[viscid moth]

that's what i meant to say

[vague shoal]

So that means platforms that don’t support deferred could possibly get something

[quick beacon]

If you want like rain puddles, you could probably add shader code for that, but we don't know if we'd be able to do things like this yet.

[viscid moth]

would this be 1.17 opengl 3.2 update to the bedrock shader scene

[sonic canopy]

If a deferred pack has such shaders, personally I wouldn't call it a shader btw, because that would be a graphics pack augmented with shaders, but not the other way around. But that's just my opinion, y'all can do whatever you want

[quick beacon]

Here's my plan.

[viscid moth]

yolo shaders be like

[viscid moth]

hybrid packs

[quick beacon]

Add a shader file with 1 line of shader code. Then, my pack becomes a valid shader pack

[white willow]

Here's where this new thing would be cool

Something like deferred with cel shading

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-patrick-animation-cartoons-gif-16276467

[viscid moth]

lmao i could just draw a very teeny tint dot of pixel and boom shaders
veka won't hunt me down for calling my pack shaders anymore

finally veka can be beaten

[white willow]

I just fear what would happen to some pack creators because the community can be harsh

[sonic canopy]

veka wouldn't, but my 13 identical twin brothers will

[white willow]

Let's say someone suggests you code in rain puddles, but physically have no idea how, then you just get blatantly dumped on because you can't add their request

[silent zealot]

Giving more legitimacy to YT calling em shaders lol

[viscid moth]

I amma chatgpt this pack then

[white willow]

However I would love to be able to add in cel shading as a preset

I'm working on a unity cel shading shader and it's so cool

Although it does have major issues lmao

[viscid moth]

we gotta feed an llm and train it on deferred data sets and let it make easy packs

[sonic canopy]

Yeh it probably won't be possible, as this would be something you do during and/or after lighting calculations, but such shaders will only be able to change the before part

[white willow]

I see

[sonic canopy]

But you should be able to add some kind of cel shading without deferred tho

[white willow]

I believe someone made a cel shaded RD shader

[sonic canopy]

Since vanilla does less lighting calculations, and if you were to modify color input as if it was cell shaded, it'd look more believable

[white willow]

I just want deferred borderlands style lol

That would look soo good

[sonic canopy]

You could probably add a black outline at the edges of textures

[white willow]

That seems like it would be doable

[sonic canopy]

Like alpha test textures in particular, but not around solid blocks

[white willow]

That's kinda how my unity one works right now

It doesn't work on cubes

But other things it kinda works

[viscid moth]

I'm pretty sure owner of this sever done this in vanilla don't know if it works in deferred

[white willow]

It currently takes and calculates object normals to generate an outline. It doesn't work on cubes since their normals are flat

These normals are different from normalmaps keep that in mind

Although I wonder if a normalmap could change it

I'd have to code in normals onto the material though

[sonic canopy]

I feel like blurry lines between shaders and graphics packs in the community is part of the issue. Shaders and graphics packs might seem similar on the surface, but they are entirely different - one requires artistic expertise, while the other requires technical knowledge. Many artists who make graphics packs don't know how to make shaders, just like many shader devs don't know how to make textures. Because of java and unofficial bedrock shaders, people have a certain expectation when they hear the word "shader", so they could request a feature, that may not be possible to add due to the artist not knowing shader programming or due to technical limitations of graphics packs and upcoming shaders. This is why I think the community should be better educated on the distinction between shaders and graphics packs, about limitations and capabilities of each.

[white willow]

I agree completely

[quick beacon]

Yea. Let's say some kids wants my pack to have a feature, let's say, better rain, or wet surfaces when it rains. If I tell them I can't code it, it will make me look bad as a pack creator.

[vague shoal]

When people see better Minecraft graphics they think of shaders

Cause all of these Java YouTubers have used shaders

So they always think of the term shader when they see better Minecraft graphics

[sonic canopy]

Yeah. And this is a problem

[quick beacon]

I'd be down if I can improve some aspects of deferred.

It's kinda my thing, lol.

[white willow]

Yea and their response will be "well you made this shader how do you not know", dawg it's a glorified texture pack 😭

[vague shoal]

I didn’t hear about shaders until I saw better Minecraft graphics

So I just kept thinking better graphics in Minecraft = a shader

[white willow]

Oddly enough I don't think I ever referred to RTX packs as shaders even when I was new to it

Could be because I knew about pbr packs on Java

[quick beacon]

I do think we can make deferred look pretty with the configs alone, but we have to wait for those to become data-driven or something.

[white willow]

Definitely

[sonic canopy]

Which configs do you think are missing?

[white willow]

Exposure

Emissive brightness

[quick beacon]

I'd want them to data drive auto exposure, shadows, and volumetric fog configs.

[white willow]

Maybe average luminance but I have no idea how that works

[sonic canopy]

Btw we could probably change it with upcoming shaders

[sonic canopy]

Just for disabling it, or do you want to also control other parameters?

[quick beacon]

Disable or to control parameters.

[white willow]

Control it

Cuz with control you can also disable

[sonic canopy]

Personally I'd want the ability to set a fixed exposure and disable tonemapping since that makes it much easier to judge the relative brightness of things

[quick beacon]

That would also be cool.

[white willow]

What would be interesting is an in game toggle for color grading

Like an on off switch

So you can compare how deferred looks normally and with your color grading

Idk this is kinda stupid but yea

[tribal trail]

i need rain fog color, fog density keyframes, Emissive brightness and i will be happy

[tribal trail]

why does so many people have a problem with autoexposure? for me it is minimal, almost invisible

[white willow]

Case and point

[sonic canopy]

That looks good to me tbh

[viscid moth]

huh

[white willow]

Also for stuff like panorama creation

[sonic canopy]

But disabling autoexposure would be very handy for capruring cubemaps

[tribal trail]

fine for me

[quick beacon]

I want everything to be the same "brightness". I don't want everything to go bright when I am in a dark room.

[viscid moth]

yeah same

[white willow]

Thing is though,. The sun isn't even that bright

[white willow]

It's like 30 luminance

Auto exposure should barely be adjusting at that level

[quick beacon]

I mean, color grading may also play a role here?

[sonic canopy]

Can ya'll find a shaderpack that has auto exposure implemented in the way that you want, it might be a good reference for configuring auto exposure config, or a reference for the devs to use a different technique for it

[quick beacon]

BSLmy beloved

[silent zealot]

Colour grading and tonemapper per biome when

[white willow]

Could be. The color grading I'm working on for LD has improved this issue. Did you notice that in your testing

Other than the ground at noon being stupidly over exposed

Still no idea why that is

[tribal trail]

this is the worst case of it in my pack

[tribal trail]

i use 500 luminance

[white willow]

Idk why it's so chalked then

[quick beacon]

I'd rather change the values of auto exposure rather than to disable it.

soft shadows would also be a win for me

[tribal trail]

I don't know either, but for me it's fine

[white willow]

Does deferred have VPS?

I haven't noticed it

Or I may just be dumb I think it does

[tribal trail]

no

[sonic canopy]

what's vps

[white willow]

Variable penumbra shadows

[sonic canopy]

Ah no, it has PCF fitering that makes shadow edges smooth, and point light shadow might look like they have that, but only because they are projected from a point, so the shadow (and therefore smooth edge) become larger the further you are from the source. Directional lights don't have this effect tho

[white willow]

Would be a great thing to add in the future

[quick beacon]

Soft shadows can be done with the current configs right? Might look bad I think.

[white willow]

Don't believe so

[sonic canopy]

I feel like this is a very minor effect and you'd need much higher res shadows to see it

[white willow]

But I also agree softer shadows would be nice, the shadows rn are quite hard

[sonic canopy]

Btw this is the current list of materials as of 1.21.20.24 with that custom shader code snippet, it's a mix of regular vanilla materials and their deferred versions

[tribal trail]

VPS better

[sonic canopy]

Lol looks like the earth is about to be consumed by the sun, that's wayy too extreme of an effect

[tribal trail]

same, I used to be obsessed with this effect when I used java shaders, but now I wouldn't pay attention to it

[tribal trail]

it looks like this in BRTX

i know

[white willow]

BRTX nuclear sun????

[tribal trail]

it's terrible

[tribal trail]

slay

[white willow]

That sun boutta go crazy

https://tenor.com/view/ok-and-planet-explode-death-die-explode-gif-20089121

BRTX

[quick beacon]

I am curious if this can be fixed with SSR? I don't know if it's possible, but I don't know much. (Below the player)

[sonic canopy]

That's how SSR works

Can't be fixed, without using other methods of reflection

[quick beacon]

Such as?

[quick beacon]

I know. Was more asking if it can be resolved in a way. I dunno.

[white willow]

World space reflection

[quick beacon]

Sounds expensive.

[white willow]

Or just ignoring the player completely in SSR

[quick beacon]

What about blocks

[white willow]

I've seen games have the players completely ignored by SSR

But still being able to reflect stuff

Idk how it's done though

Paper Mario did it and I'm just so confused at how

Only thing that can disrupt that games SSR is the world itself, the player and any other entities have no effect on it

Nintendo are some wizards fr

[quick beacon]

World space sounds expensive on the GPU, is it?

[white willow]

Can be

World space is most commonly used in RT

[sonic canopy]

They are all expensive. World space ray tracing is one of them, but you could also render separately multiple layers e.g. entities and terrain, and then you'd be able to reflect terrain occluded by entities and vice versa

[white willow]

this is likely what nintedo did then

[quick beacon]

That last part. Would that be harsh on mobile?

[sonic canopy]

Yes

It could be up to 2 times slower

[quick beacon]

Oh, yikes.

[white willow]

I'd imagine they used multi layered SSR here (sorry I don't currently have my capture card so had to record it)

[sonic canopy]

Can you see any artifacts when characters overlap, or when the environment does?

[white willow]

only when the environment overlaps other environment

characters are completely unnafected

the ssr res is also stupidly low but its quite impressive they got that on a switch game

[quick beacon]

I would like them to do the thing Veka said about SSR.

[pale urchin]

Paper Mario? As in N64 Paper Mario?

[white willow]

characters dont seem to affect eachother in ssr nor does the environment affect characters. the only thing is environment overlapping other enviorment

[white willow]

nah the ttyd remake on switch

although paper mario 64 did have reflections in one certain area

[pale urchin]

They could've very well done planar reflections

[white willow]

environment is handled by ssr that much i know

but its likely they did something like that for the characters since they are never removed from any reflections

[sonic canopy]

2x times slower tho 💀

[quick beacon]

I mean, yea.

Idk if there is a different way.

[white willow]

they could separate ssr from different settings

ultra could use this heavier method

[sonic canopy]

It's not worth the performance penalty imo

[white willow]

and anything below, the standard

[quick beacon]

What about this?

[pale urchin]

That requires explicit setup. Something you can't really do in the dynamic world of Minecraft

[white willow]

something like TTYD is set environments

[quick beacon]

Aww, that sucks.

[tribal trail]

Most Java shaders don't do that and just have artifacts

We can live with that

but I wish they would make ssr gaps better

I hate that trees and not only that, have holes

[quick beacon]

I dislike it too.

[pale urchin]

What I think is happening on the code side is that the ray is detecting how far it is behind the geometry it's intersecting, and if it's too far, rejects entirely

What they need to do is either increase the threshold or ignore that check entirely

[proud pike]

Our shader devs at YSS are still not pleased with the SSR code mojang is using for deferred

[tribal trail]

Explain in Fortnite terms what they did wrong

[pale urchin]

And explain in actual terms too.

[raw pendant]

I fixed and optimised point lights for the most part

[quick beacon]

Also, I don't think "enable_gap_fill": true does anything in the SSR configs.

[raw pendant]

i optimised shadow and reflection configs to allow more variation (low in this case is repurposed to disable shadows)

low reflection settings keeps the sky reflection but has no ssr

idk if i plan to release the configs in this early stage of deferred, things can change

[quick beacon]

Hope they become data driven in resource packs in the future.

Or some form of them.

[raw pendant]

all fun and games until you have people who have no idea how to calculate cost of shadowmaps and graphic effects and will crank them up to unplayable values

[quick beacon]

Deferred needs that because right now they result in huge performance loss.

[raw pendant]

well what i did was reduce the artifacts

and increased the distance

[quick beacon]

OOoo

[raw pendant]

while also being able to increase cluster size a little bit to offset performance

the main issues are not enough lights per cluster

that causes the issues with lights randomly flickering and having artifacts

[quick beacon]

One thing I wish deferred had was soft shadow edges

[raw pendant]

it does

shadow pcf scale

i tweak that setting to make the different resolution shadow cascades blend better

[quick beacon]

Does it look good, tho?

[raw pendant]

depends on personal preference and the resolution of the shadowmap

with a low res shadowmap you will need more blur to try to hide the pixelation

you also need to strike a balance with cascade and slope bias, too small and you will get ugly lines, too high and shadow will be disconnected from the subject

[raw pendant]

let me show an example

[quick beacon]

@sonic canopy https://x.com/kaylasara/status/1821957001020326071

Kayla (@kaylasara) on X

@Prowl8413 @SmokeyStack_ Smokey is right, this is just an internal tool. Nothing to hype here. We've been transparent about our goals with deferred rendering. Nothing has changed there.

Twitter · Aug 9, 2024, 5:09 PM

[sonic canopy]

😔

[quick beacon]

😔

[sonic canopy]

well it is what it is

What was it in response to btw? Could you screenshot the thread

[sonic canopy]

Curious what this tool is for then, but we will probably never know

[graceful iron]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[quick beacon]

"🤓 It says material compiler"

[sonic canopy]

Well so much for shader support then, RIP. I'm still not fully sold that we won't get anything at all, but that compiler service was the strongest evidence so far. Ig we'll see what happens next.

[quick beacon]

What about that function that was added?

[sonic canopy]

On its own imo it doesn't offer enough evidence to say for sure, it could be just a quirk of the way shaders are written internally.

The whole thing does seem odd tho, but then again I just want to believe that shaders have future on bedrock in some official capacity 😔

[proud pike]

[graceful iron]

does this look good?

[tribal trail]

Yesn't

[still zenith]

Can you share a screenshot of the water weirdness you are seeing, please?

Or anyone else experiencing issues with waves disappearing when reflections are turned on, if you could emoji this message please, it would much appreciated.

[silent zealot]

@still zenithRight here, I'm also seeing reports #off-topic message

[still zenith]

We're tracking an elusive issue in this area internally, and getting some more info from the community would be very valuable.

[quick beacon]

I have never encountered this before. I know some people had the water turn to the vanilla water, but they fixed it by reloading the world.

[still zenith]

Ah yes, that video is the same thing we're seeing internally. 🤔 Thank you.

[tribal trail]

me and my friend experienced game freezing with deferred

[quick beacon]

I also never encountered that.

[tribal trail]

Same, waves work fine for me

[silent zealot]

Another tidbit alongside my tweet. Water looks normal/has waves in the world.jpg save which is what I used for my deferred rendering comparison pic

[still zenith]

Looks like that video was from XBOX. Which platforms are you all running on if you don't mind me asking?

[silent zealot]

I havent tested all the blocks, but it appears that leaves above the water will make the waves proper just like the tweet

[quick beacon]

I run on PC, GTX 1070, AMD Ryzen 5600X

[quick beacon]

Odd, the waves are there but not reflections.

My darn, I read wrong

Sorry.

[silent zealot]

Could you try my test? Have deferred rendering on, cover a chunk with leaves above water, leave and rejoin the world? I used time set sunset for this example

[quick beacon]

Let me do that

[white willow]

I ran into random crashes on windows, RTX 3060, Ryzen 9 5900x

[quick beacon]

HAH!

I like this lol

[silent zealot]

ideally you would've done higher so it's easier to see it without the leaves in the way but thanks 🙂

[still zenith]

And are you stuck in this broken state? Or does it sometimes fix itself?

[quick beacon]

I think it stays like that. Not sure. Let me check.

[silent zealot]

My testing, it has stayed like that. Though disclaimer I did just afk for 5 minutes

[quick beacon]

It stays like that.

[still zenith]

Thanks for checking and for the info, all. Wish us luck. 🤞

[vague shoal]

Cubemap pack link?

[pale urchin]

gg

[vague shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/tobey-cry-cri-crying-meme-gif-20634328

[viscid moth]

the blue doesn't quite gradient well with the horizon

[vague shoal]

What does mojang need to data drive so we can make strawberry deferred without modified configs

I can’t try straw berry cause well I’m on iOS

[viscid moth]

date drive the whole configs

better yet data drive the whole app

[faint snow]

Why not data drive the entire OS of the device your on?

[long ruin]

data drive the earth

[wraith anchor]

Do you have a full screenshot? And how we can turn on this?

[white willow]

its a developer tool cant use it

[viscid moth]

i still don't know wtf does alpha channel do in moon and sun illuminance

[viscid moth]

also mie start gotta be bugged

[sonic canopy]

Brightness afaik

[viscid moth]

you can like change the alpha in editor and it doesn't do anything

[quick beacon]

It is? I don't know since it does nothing right now. It might be a bug?

[sonic canopy]

I'm not fully certain myself, afaik it was brightness when I last checked, but that was a long time ago and I might be misremembering things

[quick beacon]

Ahh, oki.

[white willow]

wait a second. the way shadows are handled underwater is so cool. it looks to me like the water fog is rendered above water and it causes the shadows to cascade even when above

[sonic canopy]

Yeah water fog is a proper volumetric fog, it will cast proper god rays and volumetric point lighting

[white willow]

i just didnt think the engine rendered it above water

[quick beacon]

What does that mean.. our recurrent surface vol fog is fake 😢

[sonic canopy]

That reminds me, anyone tried volumetric point lights inside of the new water?

[white willow]

the shadows under water are identical to above water

[quick beacon]

Way ahead of ya ;3

[sonic canopy]

Nah I meant it's the same as surface fog, with god rays and everything

[pale urchin]

Which makes me wonder why the game seems to switch fog completely when transitioning in and out of water.

[unborn heart]

I don’t know if it’s just me but in poggys shader the nether is like pitch black

[sonic canopy]

Probably because vanilla also switches fog, so surface fog uses vanilla fog while water volume fog uses its own thing

[white willow]

under water with SSR

near the top you can see the point light blocks reflecting a little

its quite nice

wow

i just compared underwater to rtx

its crazy how far its come

honestly all this is missing is for the light rays to be affected by the water waves thats it

and caustics

but those are coming

[oak thicket]

They need to improve snells window

It’s just a circle at this point

[white willow]

it will likely be better once we see some form of refraction

since usually at the edges of it youd see refraction

but since there is none rn

the snells window is just kinda here

[tribal trail]

no nitro moment

[white willow]

more exampels of under water shadowing being cool af

[sonic canopy]

Yeah it's a boundary between refraction and total internal reflection, without refraction it doesn't really work

[white willow]

woah fog off is insanely different

without fog (left), with (right)

[white willow]

ok question for the graphics people. is the light shafts moving around underwater caused by refraction, or is it caused by a different factor

or is this just some cool raytracing effect

[white willow]

my assumption is its based on wave movement

although rtx doesnt really have that

[sonic canopy]

In RTX in particular it's probably a fake effect based on caustics texture, but irl moving light shafts in the water are indeed caused by water waves, as they move and orient their surface differently, varying amount of light can penetrate the surface due to fresnel effect, and the light that enters water gets refracted slightly differently as well, and changes its path

[white willow]

well it would be cool to see this in deferred. i wonder if caustics would end up playing a role in this, or if they could use the wave normal data in some way

this effect is entirely unnessary and probably would go unnoticed

but would be cool to see anyway

[silent zealot]

We can create waves washing up on beaches which is pretty cool(you just have to max out all the settings)

[white willow]

thats pretty cool

[viscid moth]

ehmm

[tribal trail]

someone on my discord server sent this

[white willow]

I have a video of this happening hold on

Nvm

[raw pendant]

I want the ability to use dlss with deferred

[raw pendant]

another easy to grasp explanation would be the fact that the curved nature of waves act like lenses, so they can focus light and also spread it out

think of the magnifying glass as the water wave on the surface, except the light isnt focused into a point, it's focused into lines

[quasi trench]

i thought this was a me thing lol

[white willow]

nope seems to be an apple thing

i havent seen it on my M2 device though

[white willow]

which iphone do you have btw is it the pro or the pro max

[quasi trench]

15 pro max

[white willow]

nice

im getting one of those soon

nvm i guess im not now

[tribal trail]

I haven't seen this on my ip15

[white willow]

@still zenith (sorry for the ping) not sure who handles the graphics docs but i noticed typos in the color grading docs, the sample code is missing colons. left is the sample, right is the fixed

also anyone interested in messing around with deferred stuff, i made a sample pack which contains all essential deferred files

[silent zealot]

Whats considered essential

[white willow]

textures is empty

but it contains the main files deferred adds in

just figured it would be helpful for anyone wanting to at least mess around with settings

[brave star]

how do you guys get your stuff to look like this

tried downloading a pack and the water doesn't even look good, I upped the settings too.

[white willow]

you on 1.21.30.22?

[silent zealot]

Water is bugged

[white willow]

that as well

sometimes water works, sometimes it doesnt

also what pack

[brave star]

Prizma Deferred

[brave star]

yeah.

[white willow]

then you must be a victim of the water bug

[long ruin]

Me personally, I haven't had that issue yet

probably because I only play it for like 10 minutes at a time

[white willow]

i only see it appear when i change reflection settings

[brave star]

or are you guys just getting good angles lmao

[white willow]

ok not the bug

its likely angle

[long ruin]

ultrawide

[white willow]

i can still see waves and stuff in that

and reflections

[brave star]

cropped screenshot

[white willow]

the bug is like this

[long ruin]

bummer

[white willow]

no waves, reflections nothing

[brave star]

#1270770934663483472 message

am I going insane

because the water looks way better here

[white willow]

theres definitely something wrong for sure

[long ruin]

did you use an updated pack?

water isn't wavey by default

[white willow]

both my pack and prizma. water looks fine for me

unfortunately i have no idea whats wrong with yours

[long ruin]

I think they just forgot to update their pack

Idk

[silent zealot]

You should use my pack

[long ruin]

Oh yeah I saw you updated it

I'll check it out soon

[long ruin]

yippie

[white willow]

yea that looks fine

[long ruin]

now obviously you can mess with it yourself (preferably in editor mode)

[brave star]

send a link, ill check it out

[long ruin]

I like the rough ocean water style imo

[white willow]

my water normal (unintentionally) is very similar to the rtx one

[long ruin]

https://github.com/SmokeyStack/smokey_pbr

[white willow]

just if it had way better range

[long ruin]

[silent zealot]

I'd much prefer if you sent the website link instead

[long ruin]

Oh yeah, forgot you had that

I just had the github saved

[brave star]

downloaded

[long ruin]

Sorry about that

[brave star]

and not even showing the import notification

nice

[long ruin]

might take a bit

[brave star]

restarted

its all good

[brave star]

lmao

[long ruin]

[silent zealot]

Do me a favour, turn on deferred, and rejoin the world

[brave star]

it is on

why did you think it was off

[silent zealot]

Bc...some people turn off deferred b4 rejoining a world?

did you not read the rest of the sentence?

[brave star]

damn looks better in the world picture

[silent zealot]

Yep, thats the bug Im talking about

The one in the world pic is how its supposed to look like

[silent zealot]

@brave star , could you find a body of water, and roughly 10 blocks above cover a 16x16 with leaves. Then with deferred turned on, rejoin the world and show me a screenshot of the water below the leaves

[long ruin]

how do people even figure out these workarounds

[silent zealot]

My guy Ive worked with HCF for 4 years lol

[long ruin]

Fair enough lol

[white willow]

i ran into the water issue once, and it literally fixed itself by tabbing out and tabbing back in

i wish i was kidding

[long ruin]

weird

[white willow]

i was so confused when it happened as well

i just lowered reflection quality

water went poof

then tabbed out to send the screenshot here

tabbed back in then the water was fine

[pale urchin]

Speaking of water, how do you think they should handle fog with it? Me personally would still want fog in the reflection, but because of how SSR and fog works I'm not sure if it can be done in a satisfactory way

Currently, IBLs don't include fog, but SSR does, which creates a discrepancy

[white willow]

fog in reflection is good just the way its currently handled is poor

its a weird balance i guess

[long ruin]

I love looking back at the Deferred q&a

It's changed a lot since then

[white willow]

and for pack makers rn its, either nuke your packs fog, or let your reflections suffer

and tbh id rather the fog stay

[pale urchin]

I think one issue that causes SSR reflections to look bad is that fog is technically being applied twice. Once for the water surface, and again within the reflection itself

[white willow]

thats likely the issue

does it really need to render on the water surface

[pale urchin]

The surface itself should still have fog applied, yes

[tribal trail]

wait for mojang to add refraction

[pale urchin]

It's not just SSR that contributes to the water appearance

[white willow]

true if we point back to this

for some reason water is more clear with fog enabled

but idk if that has to do with surface fog or something else