General Discussion

[eternal shoal]

Nevermind

[languid tinsel]

Some devices can get funky on folder depths?

[zenith aspen]

vibrant day!

[rough path]

Consoles restricting everything.

[minor quail]

Hi, beta!

[dawn fable]

Do entities keep flickering for anyone else

[simple steppe]

with vv?

[dawn fable]

with any graphics mode

[simple steppe]

not in my end

preview or stable? didn't test preview

[dawn fable]

preview

[latent vault]

preview when

[zenith aspen]

1.16 when

[azure spade]

When Preview?

Ladies and Gentlemen, it is with great honour to announce that it might be preview day

When do Previews usually happen?

Previews starting from March 11, 2025 will try to release on a Tuesday: https://bsky.app/profile/jorax.bsky.social/post/3lk4lhrpmoc2p

May 27, 2025, 12:02 AM

[toxic horizon]

Banana or orange day?

[zenith aspen]

apple

[muted widget]

banana

[toxic horizon]

[toxic horizon]

Thank you

[limber tiger]

no snapshot

?

[normal wolf]

So much

Wait

[carmine kettle]

"snapshot delayed until enough people get the mega spud trophy in craftmine" (/s)

[marble karma]

I wonder if the earliest versions of Minecraft have java-like modding

By that I mean earlier versions of pocket edition

[slender wren]

Tbf even Windows freaks out when the file path gets too long.
Not linked to the actual depth though

[rich vault]

old scripting api was the closest thing to that, it had client scripting and access to filesystem iirc

For mcpe specifically, there was a blocklauncher which is a 3rd party launcher that allowed you to properly mod the game like on java

[marble karma]

It doesn't work/exist anymore does it

[rich vault]

afaik no

There is a new one being developed tho, by levilamina team

[marble karma]

Snapshot

Not preview

[prisma niche]

I could expect the same thing for the preview, but who knows. I don't think Kayla said anything in here yet, right?

[limber tiger]

nope

[zealous salmon]

Wasn't yesterday memorial day in the US? If I had to guess, that would have pushed back the preview

[prisma niche]

Yeah

[zenith aspen]

testflight is silent

[eternal shoal]

😞

[zenith aspen]

[fringe island]

Banana

[zenith aspen]

1am😔 eepy

[pure gull]

Minecraft Monthly is too silent

[torn pond]

https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/36938170843021-Minecraft-Beta-Preview-1-21-90-27

PREVIEW

🍌

[zenith aspen]

holymoly

[prisma niche]

Wait for real?

[torn pond]

yeah

i just posted a link

3:

i kept refreshing the preview changelogs page

[zenith aspen]

oh but veryyy small

[prisma niche]

It's a smol one

[torn pond]

Vibrant Visuals is no longer tinted green on Android devices (MCPE-220308)
tragic

[toxic horizon]

Thread?

[fringe island]

Let's go 1.21.100

[rotund pivot]

Is the next preview going to be 1.22?

[limber ledge]

Bruh small chance

They didn't announce 1.22 so we're expecting a 1.21.100 preview

[rotund pivot]

.100 is crazy

😭

[limber ledge]

We had it in 1.16.100

We even had 1.16.200

[rotund pivot]

Wth

[rotund pivot]

Can’t wait for 1.21.1000 in three months

[limber ledge]

The largest number was 1.16.230

[limber ledge]

It's a little bit confusing yeah. While the new drop update system is good, Mojang didn't clarified on when we will get large updates. So far we were getting them one in every year, but now they may changed it to every 2 years.

[rough path]

That was a different time.

[sleek grail]

Does that mean we're not getting a 1.21.100

[torn pond]

i really wish they just went with "named content drop that's on both java and bedrock is a full version number". It's not like every "drop" even gets a name, only the ones that are on both java and bedrock do (even if one of them has more features than the other)

like, Bundles of Bravery had different content between java (just bundles) and bedrock (bundles and hardcore mode), but that's considered a drop.
Bats and Pots is considered a drop despite how little it really changed. But 1.21.70 isn't a drop despite adding a major feature (superflat presets) to bedrock

[rough path]

Every Drop has a name lol.

[quasi wedge]

That's how I got my name

[torn pond]

does 1.21.70 have one?
I don't think it's considered a "drop", but at the same time, it adds more content than some actual drops (bats and pots), so it practically is a drop, just a bedrock only one.

but i didn't think it had a name?

[rough path]

It is not a Drop.

Minor updates != Drop

[torn pond]

but like, what is the practical difference besides "mojang considers bats and pots a drop, but not 1.21.70" and that "drops" are on both java and bedrock.

I know all the drops we generally consider drops have names. I'm just asking "why are these other minor updates not counted as drops if they also add significant features, what's the distinction"

[rough path]

Because Drops are quarterly content updates for both editions.

Its all marketing.

[rough path]

And bats and pots were both on JE and BE hence it is a Drop.

[torn pond]

I guess. Still, my main point is just that drops should be considered 1.X versions rather than being the same as bug fixes and minor updates

[rough path]

A dev did say they want to address the versioning system.

[limber ledge]

Btw still not seeing the mob spawning experiments in 1.21.90 was sad.

[plush wedge]

Reason #524 why packs should be zipped on disk instead of unpacked

[rough path]

#cancelled

[limber ledge]

really

[rough path]

Let us use .brarchive

[plush wedge]

I mean that doesn't really help with depth since those are just a single directory contents

[dawn fable]

we wouldn't have this issue if everything was in the same file
we need everything.json

[prisma steeple]

isn't that what brarchive is meant to be? just not in json form

[native osprey]

so
they most likely won't fix player applyImpulse in next release

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[zealous salmon]

When did 1.21.83 release for BDS?

https://github.com/Bedrock-OSS/BDS-Versions/commit/3d7c55a229f8c198a6dd1b2941142f9a73875c1c a while ago i suppose

[past wharf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/s/2iBwGqb7tC

[sleek grail]

Summer drop soon then

Is 1.21.90 going to be the version for the summer drop?

[muted widget]

yeah

[toxic horizon]

Is today an orange day?

or would that be next week?

[willow harness]

orange day was yesterday

[toxic horizon]

That was banana day

[willow harness]

oh nvm

i misread mb

[toxic horizon]

You're grand

[tribal torrent]

guys

[toxic horizon]

shiternet

[tribal torrent]

yesterday was preview banana day

preleases last into next week

at minimum

release candidate likely by monday

[toxic horizon]

ah

[tribal torrent]

unless the update is in two weeks

which is how it usually goes with the end of a preview version cycle

then i could see release candidates coming in next thursday onwards

[sleek grail]

If next week is 1.21.100.20 then we've got 3 weeks till stable

[hoary forge]

1.21.100 😭

and Java is only at 1.21.6

[sleek grail]

They do update less frequently

Which I'm sure the modding community is thankful for

[rough path]

The Modding community is mostly stuck on 1.21.1.

[sleek grail]

True

[limber ledge]

What you guys are hoping to see during the 1.21.100 preview cycles

I'm starting: the new in-game OreUI container screens.

[charred ocean]

nah. I think it's still early

I don't expect them to come in like the next version itself.

they are working on multiple screens, I think they are gonna be released all at the same time as it's in-game UI.

if they come. I want them to be customizable. Like the 2 screens of the chest to be left to right or top to bottom as per in positions

for the HUD hotbar. I didn't want the hotbar to be changed. I think that's really alright. Feels too iconic to change it tbh.

I did not expect they would change the hotbar too lmao

[torn pond]

superflat improvements.

1.21.80 started improving them with the presets, and they asked for feedback and said they'd keep improving it over time.

then 1.21.90 got nothing in terms of superflats

so, hoping for 1.21.100 to have the stuff they've been working on in the background during the 1.21.90 development cycle

[limber ledge]

Yeah but let's be honest; the current Minecraft UI and hotbar was getting old. If they are overhauling the graphics with the Vibrant Visuals then they can even overhaul the UIs and the Hotbar too.

[limber ledge]

Yeah I hope they will finish it soon!

[torn pond]

i think the current UI is fine for the most part. And the thing is, so far they have done nothing to let us revert to the old UI style. Maybe they will once container UI is here but i doubt it.

[torn pond]

i like the container UI colours depending on the container, but i prefer the current UI style. No need for rounded edges for the inventory slots (that simply does not fit Minecraft), or changing the font to what i find to be a less visually appealing one.

[limber ledge]

I hope these surveys really works. How many surveys we got in just 1 year so far?

[limber ledge]

I think that was just a placeholder

It's been a while now, they definetely improved it so far.

[rich vault]

Marketplace devs aren't allowed to participate because this is considered as "working in the games industry"?

[willow harness]

did mojang forgot to update the zombie horse egg?

[fringe island]

Actually mojang updated

[willow harness]

oh is it in the preview?

if so that's why idk , mb

[willow harness]

ahh i see

[toxic horizon]

It's updated for me in stable @willow harness

The only experiment I have on is Beta APIs

[willow harness]

i don't have that enabled

[tribal torrent]

hmmm i wonder what this survey is for

[toxic horizon]

It's only for scripting. Shouldn't have an effect on the textures

[willow harness]

yea

[elfin flower]

yeah but its way too early for hud screen to be changed, so not soon for now.

that'll cause alot of mayhem between creators on both marketplace and basically anyone who does hud screen UI will riot.

maybe they might give us a head up or something

[carmine kettle]

Erm, this is the test view for the survey?

[white fractal]

either completely no one will be able to customize ore ui, or marketplace only

[sleek grail]

Average marketplace hater

[hasty grotto]

tbf there are some reasons

having to use marketplace uuids to bypass model size limitations, render dragon ditching shader support, ore ui not being built to be data driven from the start

[sleek grail]

• The model restrictions exist for a reason
• Unrelated to marketplace
• Also unrelated to marketplace

[hasty grotto]

he brought up not being able to customise ore ui (yet)

[hasty grotto]

but then those restrictions should apply to everything

[sleek grail]

Remind me again, how many maps have blocks that exceed the geo limit?

[hasty grotto]

still they provided some kind of way to bypass it

[sleek grail]

The exception does not make the rule

[hasty grotto]

oh well ui is too important to restrict so they probably wont

[sleek grail]

Saying "having to use marketplace uuids to bypass model size limitations" would imply that every marketplace addon can bypass the limit which is simply not true

[charred ocean]

Even marketplace creators won't be able to because the main modding system hasn't even been introduced to public creators

[hasty grotto]

theyll probably just settle with not replacing gameplay screens or making the ore ui versions optional for now

[rough path]

What is it with you and this whole marketplace only fearmongering with oreui?

[elfin flower]

i doubt about that honestly, they might try to do some customize stuff and give us a head up about it. again, they already said that they'll look for options for creator that moving from JSON-UI but it will not be resource pack ways that we normally use.

[charred ocean]

i think he doubted with the dev builds that devs have

[charred ocean]

maybe a behaviour pack ig?

since achivements disabling is not a thing anymore

[elfin flower]

Yeah, server-side only like script-api.

[charred ocean]

yeah

[white fractal]

but it won't work outside a world

[charred ocean]

they might look for workarounds on global resources.

we don't know what will happen lol

[white fractal]

(one of the reasons why i said this is because every update keeps breaking json ui)

[elfin flower]

can't, they'll just nuke the folder like shaders does anyways. unless there's ways to inject custom stuff via RP which def gonna cause security problems.

[charred ocean]

it's web standards and the only way that it would work systemically is to make the rp or bp an overlay of the game's UI that includes our setting stuff on how we made it

[charred ocean]

i wonder..

[white fractal]

next year will be the end of json ui hud screen

[charred ocean]

Removing UI in resource packs is a kill ig

[elfin flower]

this is HTML or web stuff we're talking about so i guess it probably makes sense for them not putting a literal web stuff on resource pack

[white fractal]

and json ui marketplace screen optimizes like nether

[charred ocean]

maybe integration of html and css into resource packs?

They did js for bp then why not html and css for rp

[white fractal]

just js and css are enough, html is nearly non-existent in ore ui

[elfin flower]

they can't. probably gonna cause security issues and weird web loop holes. JS is exception since they made their own JS engine and making sure that it works only the minecraft stuff.

gotta remember that some platforms has really strict rules about those kind of stuff.

[dawn fable]

I doubt ore ui makes use of any of those APIs so they could all be disabled

[white fractal]

yes, the store won't be like today without ui

[elfin flower]

i highly doubt that console people gonna like it when you can join some realms and it auto-jailbreak your console

[white fractal]

sandboxed ui, done

[charred ocean]

but how would css be enough tho i wonder..

[white fractal]

css just for styling, not even part of ui

[torn pond]

I feel like if they don't add good customizability for Ore UI, it'll just end up being a purely negative change without really any upsides (from a player standpoint at least), so they'll probably do it. Just weird that they'd roll it out first and then work on that later. Especially since the direction the game is seemingly going in is trying to add more features for creators, not remove existing ones.

so, i hope Ore UI editing is added somewhat soon at least.

[sleek grail]

You make it sound look ore ui isn't visually better than JSON UI

[dawn fable]

given the scaling issues it has, I personally would say it isn't
I prefer the design, but the overall look needs improvements imo (especially text)

[rough path]

The style is subjective yes.
The implementation though, HTML + CSS is objectively better than JSON UI imo.

[manic tinsel]

They are very aware we need customisation like what currently we can do with JSON UI. They also know how powerful it is for allowing the content made with them to be amazing. Ore UI will also just allow for better future proofing of content without the major fears that it will just randomly break.

[rough path]

I do find it funny some people keep saying OreUI will be Marketplace only when even JSON UI we can't use it for add-ons.

[dawn fable]

i'm curious how they'll handle stuff like the marketplace button

[torn pond]

1- does it matter if it looks better, if before Ore UI i could have a resource pack that completely changed how it looks, and now i'm stuck with what they give me? That's not really an improvement right now. Before, i used the pack that makes it look like Legacy Console Edition, which imo is way nicer looking.
2- eh... i think the current screens, it depends. I prefer the old world selection screen, and really don't like the sceen where the game tries to shove the marketplace in your face by pretty much having a marketplace ad between 2 "create new world" buttons (sure, the old UI had something similar but from what i remember it wasn't quite this bad).
And then i certainly prefer the current loading screen, inventory and hotbar over the OreUI prototypes.

[torn pond]

yeah, i can do CSS, trying to mess with JSON UI confused me.

[dawn fable]

oh I agree that the new templates screen design is definitely worse from a UX perspective

[torn pond]

it feels more like an ad than a proper part of the UI. It invokes the same feeling as getting an ad before a video.

especially since it defaults to things you can pay for, not things you already own

[manic tinsel]

I find it more crazy cause we don't get to use special features for our content lol. (Unless you are doing something for Minecraft themselves but even then they mostly want those features to be public)

[dawn fable]

with the old one, I only had to double click to get to the create new world screen, now i have to move my cursor half way across the screen
I also liked how the old one put recently purchased templates near the top of the screen

[torn pond]

aren't marketplace partners more limited, actually?

like, they want marketplace add-ons to be compatible with other marketplace add-ons. dynamic worlds i think lift some of those restrictions?

(also, having to follow general marketplace rules, obviously)

[torn pond]

the one thing i like about the new screen is that it is easier to find your templates. You can sort through them, you have a search.
It's a bit of decent UI that would be far better if it was its own screen in the "create new world" menu. Like, behind a button.

like how seed templates work, also add a "world templates" button and direct to a full screen version of that

[manic tinsel]

Yeah we have more rules cause of course we can't just build whatever we want. Example we are not allowed to use Experimental APIs or other features like that for Addons/Worlds. We also need to make sure we don't just crash clients or give a subpar experience

[torn pond]

yeah. Obviously mojang have interest in making things good for the marketplace, but idk how many features they've made "marketplace creator exclusive"

[manic tinsel]

None. From what I know

[dawn fable]

I think there are some APIs that can open the marketplace screen for featured servers but that's it afaik

[torn pond]

(on the topic of the marketplace and UI, why have they still not added a "last updated" tag and search option)

[rough path]

😠 One day I will pitch a Realms Crasher addon.

[torn pond]

it'd be so useful. Every time i boot up the game and see "updating 1 of 2 packs", i have to re-check every single one of the 4J packs i have to see if that's the one that was updated.

[hoary forge]

Tbh, you can do the same in BDS with high op permissions. There is a command for it

[manic tinsel]

Well yeah but thats servers cause they needed a way to open screens like that for their stores.

[manic tinsel]

Thats just any world 😛 Realms always breaks some how XD

[torn pond]

So yeah, idk what's up with the idea that they'll lock stuff behind being a marketplace partner. In fact, how would that even work? Maybe for some things they could do it, but not something as major as UI changes i'd assume?

they said they encourage marketplace partners to also use things like MCPEDL and stuff, so you'd assume they would really avoid any "partner exclusive" features

i could see them prioritising features that would make sense for the marketplace, but the reason those features would make sense is because people want them anyway.

(or i could see them not adding other features that people want because they'd take away from the marketplace, i guess)

[rough path]

The only reason behind this phenomenon is because of the leaked dev builds from years past which led people to think, "Woah, Marketplace content have special configs that allow that their addons to run things hobbyists cant"

[torn pond]

I still wish some features from those dev builds were added properly :<

but also yeah what was up with those actually

like, why were they given to marketplace partners instead of adding relevant features into the regular game behind some toggle

[hasty grotto]

they would probably have to spend a while polishing and testing before some of those features could be added into a public build

probably easier to just give them to some people

[hasty grotto]

i still dont get the obsession with dev builds

ig the Streisand effect kind of happened here when the people covering that stuff got DMCA strikes

i think ive mostly just seen people be angry about not having the f3 menu on mobile and more superflat options?

[torn pond]

I mean, it makes sense people would be upset that features which exist on java and still aren't on bedrock are just sitting there in a dev build for years and not given to the public or confirmed to be in development or anything.

[white fractal]

still null and void without js

[rough path]

?

[white fractal]

if only html (<script> disallowed) and css then it's not comparable to json ui

[rough path]

?

[white fractal]

how many question marks are there

[rough path]

Because you're speaking nonsense.

[white fractal]

adding a simple <Text> without data is not cool

::before and ::after won't help

[rough path]

We are discussing creating UIs.

[quasi wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/loading-wtf-ruocgiff-gif-25631449

[elfin flower]

im actually confused what.

[white fractal]

then how about bindings

[rough path]

JSON by itself cant do anything by your logic.

[quasi wedge]

I don't see why Ore UI wouldn't have javascript compatibility

[elfin flower]

yeah since it likely gonna be server-side only anyway.

[white fractal]

and ability to use operators

there are basic operators in json ui bindings

[rough path]

Thats using the Bedrock engine yes...JSON itself cant do anything. Why are you applying this logic only to JSON UI? We are aware you dislike OreUI because your packs are now invalid but thay doesn't mean making up arguments to invalidate OreUI.

Its frankly getting so annoying.

[white fractal]

then will there be a way to retrieve custom data

[quasi wedge]

yes, and more complex operators will absolutely be available in Ore UI

[white fractal]

so go back to this

[quasi wedge]

If anything, it should be much easier to obtain information

[white fractal]

.

[quasi wedge]

things won't need to be fed through display strings

[rough path]

Again...you do know HTML can call functions without needing a script tag in it yes? It will call the native methods.

[white fractal]

or html tags only

(can't even console.log)

[quasi wedge]

what

[rough path]

Once again, your arguments is null and void on the basis that you're just making things up to invalidate OreUI.

[elfin flower]

well obviously, they knows that people make stuff with UI, so they're gonna improve it on way or other. while yeah it's disappointing that this isn't resource pack thing anymore but that's how it is.

hopefully people will cope without some weird hacky custom buttons on their screen i guess.

or maybe buy a controller so they don't have to get a resource pack that "shift-click" for you.

[white fractal]

then wait and see, until year (undefined)

[manic tinsel]

JSON UI is going and there’s not a lot you can do about that 🤷‍♂️

[rough path]

Then can you also wait before complaining about OreUI and fearmongering its only Marketplace partners?

[white fractal]

they can't even add world search (it exists on education edition)

[quasi wedge]

What is your point?

[rough path]

Do you have proof that they cant add it rather than they dont want to?

[quasi wedge]

They absolutely could add world search

[rough path]

Again, we are discussing about the implementation. We are not discussing the UI style itself

[quasi wedge]

JSON UI is not powerful whatsoever and pales in comparison to modern implementations

[manic tinsel]

Exactly OreUI is literally built on react which is so powerful

[rough path]

💔 I have to learn React.

[quasi wedge]

Live React Reaction

[elfin flower]

how hard is react

[rough path]

Again...is that proof they CANT ADD IT instead of they WONT ADD IT?

[quasi wedge]

If you have javascript proficiency it shouldn't be too difficult

[rough path]

Idk, I only know VueJS.

[elfin flower]

ah, might be alright for me i suppose.

[white fractal]

already on feedback page

[rough path]

So...theres no proof they cant add it...which makes your point null.

[white fractal]

but it was there since the new play screen was still beta

[rough path]

I am failing to see your point.

[elfin flower]

man if they add lua to script-api my life would be alot easier

[white fractal]

java parity

[rough path]

We have gotten so far from the original point.

[manic tinsel]

I feel you hahahaha

[rich vault]

Molang with JSON UI tho... React killer 100%

[hasty grotto]

i feel like theres a bit of a language barrier here

[plush wedge]

That's a relief, surely that means that all my customizations will be straightforward and easy to port

[rich vault]

I'm sure there are at least a few addon devs that are insane enough to make a translation layer or a converter from json ui to ore ui

[tribal torrent]

major orange day next month?

[elfin flower]

we don't even have a json-ui editor or atleast viewer so i have no faith.

[languid tinsel]

JSON UI makes me cry sometimes

React makes me cry, but at least I can google about my tears

[hasty grotto]

somehow NetEase made one

kind of

[simple steppe]

Json ui editor is possible only if it was aimed at a specific screen.
It is not a hard thing to code it just need time

[manic tinsel]

Do you want me to send you a JSON UI help guide?

[languid tinsel]

Is it the mobvote JSON UI files that then crop up everywhere? 😂

[viral plinth]

I love react

you all are just haters

[toxic horizon]

OreUI will just act like html but everything done by scripting and JS/C based, right?

I mean C based because JS is C based and the game is made in C++

[rough path]

What?

[toxic horizon]

Idk, it's 1:20am and I'm tired

[hoary forge]

Real

[white fractal]

it is html

which is not native by design

everywhere i go, i see CEF

[hasty grotto]

i think one of the prototypes they showed off was just CEF

[white fractal]

i don't like this move

is it an attempt to prevent modifications to marketplace

even though addons can be enabled without disabling achievements, if it was the thing, then it's no longer possible to customize literally every single pre-game ui

as addons can't be enabled globally

and texture packs might be able to customize only css, which is a big downgrade

[rough path]

Misinformation and its finest. @charred ocean care to explain?

[white fractal]

maybe, it was under this category

i hope what i saw was incorrect

[rough path]

Its not maybe, there is no evidence it being server side at all.

Please dont just repost everything you see online that paints OreUI in a bad light without actually doing research. This is frankly getting annoying.

[elfin flower]

yeah it is confirmed that it's not gonna be the same method as JSON-UI has (aka resource pack), though what is unconfirmed is how are they gonna let us do things with it.

though again we can't modify it's texture yet so not soon.

[rich vault]

Well if it's not going to be a resource pack, then there is only one other option left.

[elfin flower]

they're already confirmed it on twitter and people seems to misinterpreted that alot.

i don't know how are they gonna let us modify in the first place maybe they'll change their mind or something

they wanted us to customize or modify it like JSON-UI but again. not happening yet

[rich vault]

Could you share a source for this, for context

[white fractal]

but if what i saw was true, then this is no longer valid

[elfin flower]

lemme find their twitter rq

[rough path]

All this fearmongering for nothing. Just like RenderDragon, OreUI will have an API. Volgar has already confirmed that.

https://x.com/Volgar/status/1908076182052147210?t=5rQlx48u-ArxDTxG5zIeUQ&s=19
https://x.com/Volgar/status/1877403732096294937?t=h3o1hpyCe8GtF-8XD18T-Q&s=19
https://x.com/Volgar/status/1877646602703196601?t=IKjj2hzCyjRcepFq5mA3cQ&s=19

Oleg Kozitsyn (@Volgar)

@nakaguro_ten Um, Ore UI customisation is not available on any device. What do you mean by it being available on PC?

There is still a lot of uncertainty in how Ore UI customisation will be done, so it's hard to talk about specifics like this.

X · Apr 4, 2025, 8:36 AM

Oleg Kozitsyn (@Volgar)

@agentms_ At no point I stated that all UI modding is going to be removed.

X · Jan 9, 2025, 5:15 PM

Oleg Kozitsyn (@Volgar)

@agentms_ Oh, I see how it can be interpreted this way. My answer was more about the approach of just moving every single Ore UI file under resource packs, and that's not gonna happen for the reasons mentioned above. We working on other mechanisms to do modding.

X · Jan 10, 2025, 9:20 AM

[white fractal]

modding = addons only?

[rough path]

Not at all what?

[torn pond]

a resource pack and behaviour pack are in no way different "levels" of "modding".

just different things being edited

or added

[stoic junco]

@minecraft/server-editor example

[torn pond]

There is still a lot of uncertainty in how Ore UI customisation will be done, so it's hard to talk about specifics like this.
I wonder why they decided "let's redo the UI, and then decide on how editing it should work afterwards" instead of building it to be customizable from the start.

[rough path]

https://x.com/Volgar/status/1866176785815392544?t=0_p-qAES8YXvkSiOzrF3bw&s=19

Oleg Kozitsyn (@Volgar)

@SnifferWasHere No. Allowing directly changing screens is what made improving the UI design of Minecraft impossible: any change breaks existing mods. It's the same reason why there is a graveyard of abandoned mods for Java Minecraft – not every modder has time to make updates for every release.

X · Dec 9, 2024, 5:43 PM

[torn pond]

Yeah but like
if the goal is to let it be customizable in the end anyway, why not work with that in mind from the start?

[charred ocean]

well @elfin flower explained it ig

[rich vault]

Ok that explains it. It doesn't confirm that it will be editable via RP, but it also doesn't state that it won't. And it would be a very bad idea to lock down UI editing behind BPs, so I think it's fair to assume moving forward that it's not gonna happen, and we will have at least some level of control for UI via RPs.

[charred ocean]

whatever i was about to say similarly

[torn pond]

They have to now design the UI, and then change anything that might prevent it from being customizable later when they decide to implement that, no?

[white fractal]

just have a way to standardize it

[rough path]

What?

[white fractal]

a way to add or modify existing objects without overriding everything

[torn pond]

as a whole, the way Ore UI is being implemented is just weird to me.

[rough path]

Thats...what the tweets I linked...are about..m

[charred ocean]

also wait @rough path you haven't heard about oreUI modding at all???

volgar tweeted it on twitter bruh

[elfin flower]

truth nuke

[rough path]

Did you not read the tweets I just linked?

[white fractal]

rather than blocking it

[rough path]

Again, what?

[torn pond]

• it's being done in parts, so we get an inconsistent UI until it's done
• it's being hardcoded first and then they'll decide on how to allow customization later
• it's a UI visual overhaul that's being done on bedrock but seemingly isn't currently planned for Java, which will be a pretty major parity issue
• it's a forced visual update (previous visual updates have, for the most part, been either fully (VV, smooth lighting) or partially (classic textures) optional)

[charred ocean]

wait

[rough path]

UI parity is never planned.

Its only gameplay parity.

[elfin flower]

yeah from texture pack creator perspective - why is the font is actual font rather than spritesheet and why can't we modify any single textures of it yet. and most importantly WHY does JSON-UI global variables and texture pack only works on death screen.

[charred ocean]

ig we just wait and watch just like renderdragon situation

[rough path]

Yes, so lets not spread misinformation and fearmonger. "Oh it will only be Marketplace" "Oh it will be server side only"

[rich vault]

New texture styles eventually became forced tho

[torn pond]

I mean, no UI parity for the "out of gameplay" screens makes sense, but i'd say that things like the inventory/containers and hotbar are a bit closer to like if certain block textures were just different, those are visual differences during gameplay.

[torn pond]

It's partially optional. You still have the classic texture pack.

[white fractal]

and not bed screen

[torn pond]

it's visually inconsistent, which is why it's only partially, not fully optional.

[elfin flower]

Ore-UI will not exist on your microwave.

[rough path]

https://tenor.com/view/false-that's-false-true-fake-not-true-gif-7463876790346893009

[torn pond]

I think the only visual changes to existing textures/models that were forced are the pre-1.14 visual changes (grass colour, sponge texture), and bats (because mojang forgot to revert them in classic texture pack).

[rich vault]

I'm still waiting for shader support 🥲

[torn pond]

they reverted all the other mobs. Just not the bat.

[dawn fable]

if they make it modifiable, having actual fonts would be better as individual characters could be changed

[torn pond]

the thing is, marketplace packs already edit the UI, so they're taking away a thing that was currently being sold there. With render dragon, they didn't remove any feature that was actively being sold by them.

plastic texture pack makes the UI stuff blue, for example!

so, hopefully Ore UI editing releases sooner after Ore UI is done than the deferred rendering stuff did

[elfin flower]

give it 10 years and we'll talk

[rich vault]

That's not entirely true, RD did significantly reduce capabilities of materials, even excluding shader support

[elfin flower]

also they did add texture pack support only exclusive to death screen so i don't know why didn't they do that to the rest ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[torn pond]

Wait ore UI death screen supports texture packs?

[elfin flower]

Yeah, button textures including the border gets swapped with texture pack.

Colors too from JSON-UI global variables.

[torn pond]

O. Hopefully that means they'll do that for other gameplay screens.

Does bed screen not support it?

[elfin flower]

not sure if they did to bed screen yet

but I'll try

though unfortunately the font is, well. can't be modified since they're literally .ttf

[elfin flower]

bed did support it.

also this is what it looks like

the font was supposed to be custom but nah not happening yet.

if i had to guess they probably gonna support it only in-game screens

[white fractal]

only button textures and text colors, none otherwise

[elfin flower]

yeah it's literally just a screen with only buttons what else can they add lmao.

[white fractal]

font, red background

[elfin flower]

font maybe but again. they're .ttf and they doesn't want to implement the spritesheet font anyways and there's literally no red background as texture pack since JSON-UI ver uses gradient.

[white fractal]

just pretend that ttf fonts were supported

[torn pond]

So, hopefully that means gameplay screens will work then.

[elfin flower]

i do NOT wanna convert all of my spritesheet fonts into .ttf 😭

though might look interesting if i slam comic sans font to it

but we can use custom .ttf fonts on JSON-UI anyways so nothing interesting.

[white fractal]

there are very few to no free font editor apps so, still hard

[elfin flower]

yeah and obviously im not gonna pay for just having my custom texture pack font on Ore-UI.

[sleek grail]

Always jumping to the most insane conclusions

[languid tinsel]

Clearly ore UI edits will be possibly through oreUI editor ++, which contains a micro transaction for each screen you want to modify! /S

[opaque shadow]

I already edited Ore UI and made a customizer for it: https://www.8crafter.com/utilities/ore-ui-customizer

[obsidian lark]

They should copy Java's font system.

[rough path]

That seems like a #add-ons thing tbh. Make a PR then.

[dawn fable]

i'll add it to my script that auto generates that table

[spring arrow]

Will in game touch controls be based on oreui or it will remain to be native?

[white fractal]

native for lowest latency

[rough path]

The fact that Bedrock could reach 1.21.150 by the end of this year is crazy.

[viral plinth]

Not quite. They are specifically building a package called react-facet which is supposed to fix the latency issues caused between state changes. They did say they were gonna use this as on option for ingame controls but realistically we would only know once they actually ship it. https://react-facet.mojang.com/

obviously it will still have bindings to native, but there is a world where rendering will be done with react in the future

[obsidian lark]

The Windows 11 UI is React...

[viral plinth]

React Native

[obsidian lark]

Still unfortunate. 😔

[viral plinth]

I don't really mind

[obsidian lark]

I mind a bit because when I started using computers, there were no web based UIs for programs. Everything was so snappy.

[white fractal]

everything becomes web nowadays

[white fractal]

they developed win ui but refused to use it

[viral plinth]

The web has many good standards that most of the time are just not worth to recreate.
Nothing renders plain text better then a browser does.

[obsidian lark]

Yeah. 😔

I've used various native UI frameworks and they were all a pain.

I'm probably showing my age, but most people nowadays probably have no idea how responsive programs used to be. UIs would load instantly too.

[white fractal]

but can it handle a large amount of elements

react can, but they didn't

[obsidian lark]

Why couldn't it? There were games written in Assembly that had window managers and stuff in it. They were designed to show tons of info.

The web won the UI battle because it's easy to learn and easy to find developers. However, that comes at a cost: performance and memory usage.
Optimization is probably less of a priority nowadays due to all the advancements we've made across the board. Still not an excuse in my opinion

[white fractal]

then pagination came in, why not just hide elements outside view instead

[elfin flower]

unfortunately windows 365 is even worse 😔

[toxic horizon]

It gets worse and worse every day

😁

[elfin flower]

like wdym a security menu or aka "ctrl+alt+del" menu is a literal react UI

i guess we're getting a welcome screen as react UI in win12

[toxic horizon]

Btw, speaking of UI, I seen some people saying OreUI is server side only. But that just seems like they're complete bullshit

It wouldn't make sense to replace a client side UI with server side

Anybody have any actual good docs or updates on OreUI?

[elfin flower]

well it's a yesnt for now

it is pretty unconfirmed what methods are they gonna give us but it's clear that they're not doing the JSON-UI ways aka overriding files on a resource pack.

unfortunately looking at it already — they're not allowing us creators modifying pre-game menu with Ore-UI which, quite disappointing and it's major downgrade for me.

maybe they will but seeing texture pack stuff only work on certain in-game screens is giving me doubt already.

[native osprey]

ore ui optimization

https://tenor.com/view/emojedie-gif-22495013

[white fractal]

an os powered by only web

[white fractal]

because money

[elfin flower]

we already have it, it's called chromeOS.

[cloud moon]

Chromebooks 💔

Hated chromebooks

[elfin flower]

yeah shocking, a OS powered by a literal chromium.

[cloud moon]

Now when I think of a chromebook it makes me think of the f students are inventors meme

[elfin flower]

this thing alone is already bad enough I don't know what else when win12 exists.

[cloud moon]

https://tenor.com/view/f-students-are-inventors-a-students-are-the-perfect-employees-perfect-employee-inventor-strongpokemonmaster2-gif-7669798673792293601

[elfin flower]

only thing i don't get about chromebooks is why are they expensive than your regular windows laptops.

not just expensive but are utterly low powered so you can't really game that much.

that's like contestant to nintendo switch.

[normal wolf]

New drop name chase the skies

[normal wolf]

The posted on instaram

[fluid wadi]

Yep. After 4 minutes of Minecraft Monthly fluff.

[limber ledge]

Oh so Vibrant Visuals is coming AFTER this drop

[rough path]

No? It IS this Drop.

[limber ledge]

Let's see if they will enable by default in this drop

[rough path]

It is.

[past wharf]

But it's clearly not finished

😐

[rough path]

Well Drops tend to not be finished

[torn pond]

it is a shame that it feels like a lot of these drops could be better if they did get a full update's development cycle.

[quasi wedge]

Nah, drops are perfect

[torn pond]

yeah it does feel weird to release it now. Like, it's not in a bad state, but it feels like a visual overhaul to the entire game is something you'd want to release finished to get the best first impressions.

[quasi wedge]

The community complained for years that we were waiting over a year for a single update that would "hardly add anything"

Now we get consistent updates with very nice features

[torn pond]

They're a neat system, but most of the time it feels like "this could have been so much better if they spent more time on it".
pretty much a deep dark situation if they didn't delay it.

yeah, the deep dark in 1.18 would have been neat and still had all the sculk stuff, the warden, and some small structures probably.
but what we ended up with in 1.19 is so much better than that

[quasi wedge]

I don't see anything else they could add to the happy ghast

It's much better to set a definitive release date and release what you have so far on that release date than to continuously delay an update to finish features

[torn pond]

that is true, if those features that would have come will be added in a later drop.

I think the happy ghast is mostly fine. But at the same time, this drop feels like it could have been transportation stuff in general. They updated lead mechanics, added the locator bar, and made saddles craftable.

but didn't implement minecart changes, or do anything with horses or boats

[quasi wedge]

Didn't we get minecart changes several months ago and boats can be dragged around with leads now as well?

[torn pond]

minecart changes are still experimental on java (and require a command to increase their max speed) and aren't on bedrock.
boats with leads are a parity change, that's already been a thing on bedrock and is now on java yes.

[charred ocean]

I'm actually curious...
Did NO ONE try applying the bare bones texture pack with vibrant visuals on bedrock to see how it looked up with the textures? My phone can't support it sadly i might try it on my laptop at day

[torn pond]

Chase The Skies does improve the boats i guess, just because you can now connect them to one another, but i still feel like more could be done with them

[charred ocean]

@torn pond u on ur pc?

[torn pond]

yeah

[charred ocean]

try this

if u can

And see

I'm not on my laptop rn. Lazy to check lol

i might open my laptop in the morning tomorrow lol

It's been a month since I opened my laptop due to the preparations for a public entrance exam lol

[charred ocean]

damn

honestly looks better already than expected

also chat, this is getting crazy

[torn pond]

heres how it looks at max settings

[charred ocean]

https://x.com/HoneyfrostMC/status/1929163614151122982?s=19

Honeyfrost (@HoneyfrostMC)

Start counting your respawns — Watch RLCraft Bedrock Edition's Teaser 1 Now #Minecraft

X · Jun 1, 2025, 1:10 PM

[charred ocean]

damn

what about other time settings like sunset or sunrise?

[charred ocean]

looks good damn

[torn pond]

I hope they let us enable VV with marketplace packs, but the fact that we still can't means they probably won't.

(unless the pack allows it which they probably can after the summer drop releases)

since most of their official texture packs are abandoned now, so it's unlikely they'll be updated to allow it.

[charred ocean]

waiting for the ultimate modded combination on bedrock

so far from me:
better on bedrock x eternal-end addon x A&S x realistic biomes addon x (upcomming) RLCraft addon x vibrant visuals

if this happens, it's gonna be an insane gameplay combination lmao

[half depot]

crazy how much better this version of VV is compared to the initial showcase

[elfin flower]

ah, same studio who caused quite a showcase chaos here. — we're cooked.

That aside, RLCraft is a modpack that has like 140+ mods. how are they gonna achieve that

i guess it's probably gonna be very dumb down version of RLCraft or idk generic addon packs slammed on a world template or something because it does not have any realism charm whatsoever.

[hasty grotto]

honeyfrost

wonderful

[simple steppe]

was wandering why they always have open job application

[cloud moon]

I mean rlcraft was never meant to be realistic

[elfin flower]

well that's what "RL" stand for in RLCraft, it supposedly to be more survival realistic or just Rust/ARK. honestly it feels like skyrim but in minecraft to me.

it's always funny seeing people lockpicking some chests on that modpack and they get just raw pork.

[cloud moon]

Yea I don’t like using tnt for the locked chests but it saves so much time

[limber ledge]

Why Mojang is going to release Vibrant Visuals in 1.21.90 as default? I'm experiencing too many graphical errors in the latest preview

This could be the most bugged bedrock release since the 1.13.0 release

[rough path]

Such as?

[tribal torrent]

heres my most recent one

probably should try to see how it looks when updates come thru

[charred ocean]

bruv this matches the trailer graphics alot

[hasty grotto]

the foliage shadows look weird

[tribal torrent]

well yeah but its an old preview

things will look different now

[tropic coral]

That haven't been fixed tho

[torn pond]

huh. I wonder why.

i guess maybe they want all the "render dragon features for creators" stuff out of experimental first?

[sleek grail]

Maybe it's because worlds are version locked in general

And texture packs would require an update to support mers and other stuff

[torn pond]

but like, before the most recent 1-2 previews, VV worked great even on really old version locked worlds.

[torn pond]

that's true but
1- the wording here to me seems more like "we won't allow marketplace packs to enable VV", which means that marketplace creators still won't be allowed to use VV for their packs
2- texture packs without it still generally work fine. Not as good as if they were updated to support it, sure, but also not so bad that it feels like people shouldn't be able to enable it.

[sleek grail]

1. I don't think so

[inner ivy]

moving events for scripts was a great decision, though its a steep learning curve its totally worth it

[white fractal]

💵

[languid tinsel]

I know for some creators, ourselves included, in worlds playing with lighting and spending time on lighting to make the right atmosphere is important. There are parts of games which my feel entirely different or maybe even wrong if it's not the same crafted experience

[random karma]

I can't seem to find the source of your image. Could you share a link? Would much appreciate it.

[obsidian lark]

Yeah. Lighting and audio can make or break a good game.

Back when I was into rendering, I spent way too much time on lighting. 😅

[torn pond]

The Minecraft website page on the summer drop

[random karma]

ah, yeah I missed that. Thanks

[manic tinsel]

Yeah exactly this!

[heady sable]

Mojang, give us 1.21.100 tomorrow 😍 ❤️

[willow sequoia]

HCF v2 tomorrow

[foggy isle]

should i 🔥yay! or 😔 no 1.22.0

VV updates is my only reason to play minecraft

[dusty shale]

no way!

[tribal torrent]

no we can’t break the precedent

it has to be 1.22.0.20

[half depot]

Feel that lmao. I spend ALOT of time on lighting in my projects. Recently did an unreal project and spent an unreal amount of time on lighting 😂

Just realized I said unreal after mentioning unreal engine 😂

[cerulean quarry]

New preview?

but nothing new

looks like Preview hotfix

[simple badger]

Yeah I just got the update on android

[marble karma]

Finally fixed that annoying login bug I swe

[tropic coral]

So true

[minor quail]

No preview tomorrow?

[fringe island]

probably

[tribal torrent]

what makes you guys think there will be a preview

has there ever been a “hotfix” preview

ig some of the things here are kind of hotfix worthy

but like hmmm

when preview day was wednesday we did see tuesday previews

why cant we have monday previews when the day is now tuesday

[celest sluice]

You know what's interesting? None of the Devs came to say "happy preview day!"

[languid tinsel]

I'll have a sad preview then!

[hoary forge]

Aw boooo!

Love you devs <3

[tribal torrent]

maybe all the devs were sleeping

[fringe island]

It would be funny if there was a Preview again today

[stoic orchid]

Sorry - I'm in Stockholm and the Preview went out long after my bed time.

[limber ledge]

Oh, I thought you were a Redmond office's employeer 😄

[limber ledge]

For some reason, the performance is now downgraded. I'm getting 30-35 FPS on my Xbox Series S with Ultra settings.

Maybe the new fogs downgraded the performance? Idk.

[limber tiger]

https://x.com/silentwisperer_/status/1929693161334755676

silentwisperer👻 (@silentwisperer_)

Usually betas release early on tuesday, a late monday beta can only mean one thing.. This is the final beta for chase the skies, and they had to get these fixes out today since .100 betas start tomorrow, and once .100 is started then chase the skies has to be ✨done✨

X · Jun 3, 2025, 12:14 AM

Do you think that's possible?

[hoary forge]

Only one way to find out

[edgy abyss]

Did you permanently relocate? 😯

[stoic orchid]

I am based out of Seattle. Just visiting Stockholm this week.

[tribal torrent]

i like silent but cmon this is just cope

lovingly debunks #1379201336234610759 message

[stoic orchid]

AFAIK there is no .100 Preview this week.

[limber tiger]

Okay, thanks. Any reason why preview went earlier this week?

[stoic orchid]

Probably just to give the team more signal on the fixes - one extra day of data.

[limber tiger]

Okay okay

So you just confirmed that next preview is .100?

I was hoping for 1.22

[hoary forge]

Maybe 1.22 is the friends we made along the way

[fringe island]

Well then we'll see you next week

[limber tiger]

now that bedrock has full shader support

maybe that can now work on spectral arrow as they have more visual abilities with bedrock

[hoary forge]

"full shader support"?

[limber tiger]

well Vibrant Visual

if they can do what they did

they can work on glowing effect

for players

[hoary forge]

It isn't actual shaders, but the glowing effect afaik should be possible and might have been ever since RenderDragon existed

[limber tiger]

okay okay

well it's one of the only left features from Java that bedrock doesn't have

I don't remember any item not being added

[spring arrow]

Wtf, old marketplace worlds work by using old minecraft versions

[rough path]

MC worlds have the ability to lock versions. Just add it in your manifest.

[spring arrow]

Will work old scripting api if i will load it on 1.13 world?

[prisma steeple]

probably not

[hasty grotto]

is it documented?

[rough path]

MS Docs.

[hasty grotto]

oh

thanks

[lunar musk]

Wait we can choose versions now?

[dawn fable]

it's the base game versioning which has existed for years
it's why the vanilla packs are split up by version

[marble karma]

Wait so I could theoretically just load up an old an outdated addon that was meant to work with hcf

[dawn fable]

no

it's so that maps made with old vanilla mechanics in mind don't break

[marble karma]

Oh

[tribal torrent]

1.21.90.29 preview next week?

[peak idol]

aren't we getting 1.21.90 already?

[tribal torrent]

has a release date been confirmed?

[peak idol]

no but i mean theres a .28 preview already

aint no way they dont release soon

[tribal torrent]

release candidates will probably start next week

leading into a release the week after

so yeah there’s probably not going to be another one but

without a release date, anything can happen

[torn pond]

we've been able to for a long time now, just there isn't an in-game option for it sadly. (the debug menu in that screenshot isn't normally visible. imo it really should be)

[torn pond]

also wait howd you get the debug menu on Ore UI

(also, does "Flat Nether" actually work? is it on by default on that map, and if so, what map is it)

[lunar musk]

Yeah I was referring to in game option which is what I was seeing.

[torn pond]

Yeah, sadly we don't have that debug menu normally. It would be very useful to have it, much more convenient than having to use external tools to do this stuff.

(also would make it possible to make single biome worlds and set specific baseGameVersion on console which you can't do because you can't edit the world file there)

[limber ledge]

Get ready to get lots of hotfix updates once 1.21.90 officially releases

Players will report lots of Vibrant Visuals bugs with that release.

I think Mojang needed to delay the VV to 1.21.100 but anyway...

[elfin flower]

They may slam VV into experimental toggle back though

looking at it's state rn itd be abit chaos.

Few people who create or currently developing addon with VV somehow causes entire UI and renderer to freak out.

Also not sure why 3 consoles has VV disabled by default when the phone itself is, well. not optimized enough. not all high-end phones able to get 60fps stable without changing the renderer resolutions.

[hasty grotto]

apparently java edition may get some system where they can disable individual graphics features

[limber tiger]

Even on PC it’s very unoptimised

[elfin flower]

hell not even iphone 16 pro can get 60fps stable 😭

[limber tiger]

RTX 4060 and with a mix of low and medium settings it can be barely stable

120 is not even constant

[dusky wasp]

Yeah it doesn’t run great

[limber tiger]

Yeah that’s fucked up

Bedrock engine is really bad to be fair

[dusky wasp]

Compared to java shaders which look way better, it still runs worse

[elfin flower]

it's not bedrock engine thing but rather the deferred renderer is poorly optimized.

[limber tiger]

Since render dragon, graphical bugs and performance got a massive hit

[limber tiger]

Well when I played BE because Render Dragon the game was running smoothly but when it’s running randomly with FPS drops

[elfin flower]

Render dragon gets alot better now than before, all bugs just completely gone including pink glitches, performance ran whole better than legacy render (aka HAL), it does not lag for me whatsoever on phones or "low-end" laptop.

i kept getting 90fps stable on my phone with 16 render distance and 60fps on my laptop with 28 render distance

so it's fine for me until i switch to deferred/VV.

There's one time where mojang accidentally reenabled legacy/HAL renderer back to android and good god i tell you this is VERY laggy. fps stuttering like hell, graphical glitches exists now for some reason, also randomly crashes in mid-game too.

[hasty grotto]

I wonder how NetEase's version of Bedrock runs

supposedly they still use the old renderer

kind of

[rich vault]

I'm guessing that part of this is just due to bedrock being optimised for RD specifically nowadays

[elfin flower]

apparently according to most chinese people who moved from netease to international version — performance is garbage.

[ionic ocean]

That’s terrible, really?

[rich vault]

is it "garbage" in the netease version?

[rough path]

👁️ Just saw this...kayla in MC Monthly or something soon™️

[half depot]

I'm fine with VV releasing, just some things feel under cooked/unfinished

looking at you nether

[rough path]

1.21.90 is going to be so huge actually.

[half depot]

Nether needs some spice and love like the end got because it's so boring and bland

[rough path]

Game Drop, Editor V1, VV

[celest sluice]

Sad that the weather change didn't make it in time

[half depot]

My problem with the previous weather attempt tbh was that volumetric fog just got deleted

VL fog in VV has a huge issue where if there's no direct light, it just won't render at all

One of the things that makes the nether look horrible

Or the end without a flash

[celest sluice]

Realistically that should happen, it sounds like the solution would be to up the ambient lighting and increase the fog density

[half depot]

And since point lights aren't gonna be in release, there's literally no way to trigger VL fog outside of the sun at all

[half depot]

In fake worlds like the nether, I think it could render and be visible just treated like a smoke instead

[celest sluice]

Yeah, my suggestion still applies. Unless ambient lighting has no effect on fog?

[half depot]

Fog used to have some ambient property that was always visible way back in 1.20.80

[half depot]

It does not

[celest sluice]

That should change then

[half depot]

But between then and now they heavily reworked their density distributions (not talking about the inclusion of HG) probably with a rework or optimization of the ray marching algorithm

And the whole ambient factor has been gone

And previously the only way to see that ambient fog was if you were standing next to a light source

Which that was fixed but not in the way I had hoped 😔

Instead of making it so that ambient fog would be rendered regardless of being next to a light source, the fog just won't render at all

It's a bit disappointing

[torn pond]

I wonder what they could do to the Nether actually.

besides adding point lights which improves everywhere like that (caves, interiors and the nether)

like, the nether doesn't have a sky, so they can't just put a sky light source in it.

[rough path]

Point light lava....

https://tenor.com/view/ghastling-minecraft-minecraft-meme-boohiss-happy-ghast-gif-15112569281170789863

[torn pond]

i guess, other forms of coloured lighting would be good for things like that, yeah.

really the game could use proper coloured lighting even outside of VV. There's a resource pack for Java that adds coloured floodfill lights and that works really well

[half depot]

Ok so what I've seen in Java shaders is like volumetric smoke effects moving all throughout the nether

Along with a like kinda heavy ambient fog

Lemme see if I can find any pics of what I'm talking about

Just a few examples

I'd love to see an approach like this taken

[torn pond]

that does look nice, yeah. (but it does seem like there's at least some coloured lighting there for the soul fire which so far isn't part of VV)

[half depot]

Yea. This was more to show off the atmosphere I'd like them to do. I mean one of these does colored lighting via screenspace path tracing, they other does floodfill through voxels

Which floodfill is super doable for VV and I hope they'd at least consider it (at least make it a toggle or a setting)

You could also do screenspace colored lighting that leverages bloom

It's cool but tbh not a super effective method

[torn pond]

yeah i really hope they do it. Any sort of coloured lighting would make VV look a lot better for areas without a visible sky.

right now, VV is amazing for the End and the overworld surface.

[sleek grail]

Scripting v2

[torn pond]

it is a bit goofy to see all these blatantly coloured light sources not giving off any coloured light :<

[rich vault]

That's why we need shader support, to add features mojang wouldn't

[torn pond]

point lights + coloured floodfill (with just coloured floodfill for the full blocks) would be ideal imo.

I really like how point lights interact with tinted glass. Removes the block light but keeps the point light, and it looks great to have just the coloured light

[rough path]

Coloured lighting isnt coming anytime soon to VV per Java.

[torn pond]

Yeah, and i really hope they change their mind on that as it feels like that decision will be the thing really holding back VV :<

I can understand how point lights might hurt gameplay clarity (personally i think the game shouldn't rely so much on light levels as a whole, and if they changed that, it wouldn't matter), but i don't feel like coloured floodfill lights would have the same issue?

[half depot]

The improved emissive strength definitely helped now that bloom is more noticeable which gives the illusion of colored lighting. (Ik it's not a great compromise but it makes it better). I think if they can add a good amount of bloom on emissive sources (like extending the blur radius a bit) it could be ok without colored lights. Also if they can get their fog figured out and looking good without the need of point lights and directional lights I think VV will be ok

Also they just need to make the basic floodfill look better (which they've already done to a degree)

Java shaders survived years without colored lighting

[torn pond]

yeah, but they're a lot better with it.

[half depot]

I mean colored lights in Java shaders wasn't even standardized up until like a year ago when someone realized you could use voxel maps and floodfill to do colored lighting

That's when bliss, comp, photon, BSL all of those got colored lighting

Previously you had to use some kind of raytracing or pathtracing to do it

But colored floodfill is cheap and you can map it to the exact same intensities as the vanilla lightmap

[rough path]

It will definitely change a shit ton of things if things dont rely on light level anymore.

[torn pond]

i mean, point lights are still ideal if they were optimised, just because of how they work with all the materials.

[half depot]

I wish indirect skylight and blocklight could influence normals

It's very possible to do that too

[torn pond]

the screenshot with point lights is very visibly VV, while the one without is very flat, it's a much more subtle improvement.

[half depot]

Although... this doesn't help default vv cuz mojang didn't use normals 😔

[torn pond]

Yeah, but i think relying so much on light level was a bad idea in the first place.

mob spawning especially

[rough path]

Cant change that unfortunately.

[half depot]

I get why they only included a normal on water but it would've been really nice if they did normal map support in the base pack

[torn pond]

i mean, Mojang could absolutely change it. I don't mean just for VV or something, i think mob spawning being tied to light levels as a whole hurts the game.
the problem is that then they need to rework a lot of things, and it would break people's farms.

so, it sadly probably won't happen

[torn pond]

yeah, so no gameplay clarity lost but you get great visuals.
I wonder, have mojang said anything about colored floodfill? Like, did they consider it and decide against it, or did they just not say anything about it

[rough path]

Backlash prevents a lot of things. And what is you proposition for mob spawning then if not for light level?

[torn pond]

I'd say distance from a mob spawning preventing block, which would include light sources, but also blocks that prevent mob spawning without generating light. (and presumably, it'd also ignore walls then i guess, preventing you from having small patches where you didn't realize you forgot to light up?)

that way, it doesn't completely change it, but fixes things like the ridiculous nether mob spawning, where it's just impossible to spawnproof an area. (and allows for light sources which aren't "mob spawn prevention block")

and means it'd be possible to have dark builds without mobs, that don't rely on slabs everywhere

this is probably not an ideal approach, but just something on the spot :<
it does lack a form of visual clarity sadly which light sources WOULD provide, if it wasn't for nether mob spawning rules which throw it out the window anyway.

[half depot]

Here's my solution to the colored lighting issue

Don't have it in the base pack cuz gameplay. But give creators an option to use it in their packs

Like we kinda have right now with the point light system

[torn pond]

I mean, would coloured floodfill hurt gameplay?

[half depot]

Technically yes

Builds

[torn pond]

i guess. But builds are affected by VV either way.

you can't do a visual overhaul of the game which DOESN'T affect how builds look

just like how builds look different without smooth lighting or fancy leaves

i think coloured light should be a setting that you can turn off, but should be included in vanilla

[half depot]

Idk I don't see the point in not doing something because of gameplay intrusion when it's meant to be a "new look for the game"

[rough path]

...that...is already the status quo.

[half depot]

Well currently in releases we don't even have access to point lights regardless

Unless they give us the toggle in 1.21.90

Which it's unknown if they even will

Either way I don't think I've seen anyone really be in support of no colored lighting

They can pull it off with the right upgrades to the lighting system but that's not happening in a week

That's something that should have been done/established from the start

[torn pond]

better visuals tend to hurt gameplay clarity anyway.
with VV, your builds in different biomes will be completely different. If you built something in the pale garden, it's now filled with fog. In the desert it has the mexico filter. Your render distance is reduced, you have different shadows which affect how a block's light level looks on the surface.

i mean, look at the previous lighting upgrade

smooth lighting hurts visual clarity over fast lighting

[half depot]

And ig you could say that went out the window with raytracing

But RT wasn't advertised as "the new look of the game"

especially considering the fact it's completely dead right now

They are playing it incredibly safe with VV which is understandable but sucks

However I'm pretty sure most of the community literally doesn't care and is happy enough with what we have and it's likely only really us that care this much

[glass basin]

I dont really know anything about the technical aspects of making it work, but i think without point lights and/or colored lighting in general, underground environments and builds just dont look good

it would be really cool to be able to have more unique lighting in say, an underground base or in the nether

[torn pond]

Let's compare the visual clarity of every lighting system available in bedrock right now.

[half depot]

I agree. There's no visual differentiation between VV on vs off in these situations

[torn pond]

VV (point lights), VV (default), Fancy (smooth lightning), Fast (no smooth lighting)

[half depot]

I mean the VV floodfill is a lot better looking

[torn pond]

yeah its yellow rather than white

[half depot]

And the introduction of emissives

But that's really just not enough

[torn pond]

it's better looking in terms of colour and emissive torch, but the shape is the same as fancy. Hard to say if it'd still be better looking if it was white light rather than yellow.

[torn pond]

Yeah, when using VV on the surface, there isn't a moment where i'm like "am i playing with VV on or off"
in caves, the difference is subtle enough that it becomes harder to tell.

[half depot]

What would help however would be proper ambient occlusion and some kind of indirect lighting

[torn pond]

which makes for an inconsistent experience, it's amazing in some places and a subtle improvement in others. (or, in some, a downgrade)

(please we need fog in caves so we don't see the sunlight out of the edge of the render distance)

[normal wolf]

How this is possible

[half depot]

Fog used to look good in caves cuz the volumetric fog didn't just delete itself

It would be present then enhanced by point lights and it worked wonders

[torn pond]

right, my point here being:
would you say the addition of smooth lighting hurts gameplay clarity

[half depot]

For sure

It's incredibly ugly though

[torn pond]

the only one where i can blatantly tell what light level a block is from looking at it is simple lighting.
it didn't stop them adding smooth lighting despite hurting visual clarity

[half depot]

(No smooth lighting I mean)

[torn pond]

yeah

they added a visual improvement that hurt gameplay clarity when it comes to light levels.
do that again.

it went well the first time and everyone uses smooth lighting

[half depot]

But also keep in mind. MC was small back then

It wasn't the big titan it is now. Making a big change like that was very doable back then

Now you change that and people will cause extreme back lash

[torn pond]

yeah, but it's not like people use fast lighting because it improves visual clarity, are they? the option is still in the game, if people care so much, they'd use it.

[rich vault]

This is a custom shader (via material.bin files) that modifies the way deferred pipeline works in bedrock, read from here and below to see how it was developed over time #1182095383015456829 message

[normal wolf]

lpv

[rich vault]

Yeah, exactly

Floodfill but fancier

[normal wolf]

Can you give material file

[half depot]

The problem now is, you make a big change, like introducing VV and it makes your gameplay experience harder because of, poor visibility, or altered lighting that makes a lighting harder to distinguish and then you have a creeper spawn in your house cuz you thought it was lit enough is a big problem and people would absolutely freak out

[normal wolf]

@rich vault Can you give material bin files

[rich vault]

#1182095383015456829 message
#1182095383015456829 message
Note that it most likely doesn't work in latest versions

[half depot]

We've gotten constant complaints within betterRTX because it made a change that hurt gameplay for better visual quality

[torn pond]

i guess.
i'd still say it's worth it. I'm already sacrificing performance and render distance to use VV anyway. might as well sacrifice a little bit of gameplay clarity to make it really worth sacrificing the first 2.

https://tenor.com/view/luthern-rael-andor-star-wars-gif-27071484

[torn pond]

me using Vibrant Visuals

[normal wolf]

@veka thanks

[half depot]

I can understand why cuz it did make caves harder to play but your main adjustment was just using more torches rather than relying on ambient light to just pull you through cuz like the majority of players just crank up their brightness and not use torches in caves

Adding something that looks better and hurting gameplay clarity is a very slippery slope because people HATE change

[torn pond]

yeah :<
but i mean, it'd still be entirely optional.
and i'd say coloured floodfill at least doesn't hurt clarity all that much? point lights, sure, a bit (but even then i'd say it's not too bad)

[half depot]

Point lights hurt gameplay by being excessively laggy 😂

However point lights are not intended for use within large numbers

Even regular game engines say this

You can mix a few real time point lights fine but really need to bake them after a certain point because performance can get too bad really fast

[torn pond]

tbh I wish caves were darker. This is fast lighting at minimal brightness, and VV at 50%

VV at around 30% and lower is good

[half depot]

So betterRTX removed ambient lighting completely because it's unrealistic and looks terrible within the ultra accurate lighting it's trying to provide. People complained and complained to no end because of it

Because they can't run around with no torch and see perfectly fine

And would complain 90% of presets are "too dark and unusable"

The response "just use torches" would also upset people

So I really get why mojang is playing it hyper safe

And caves honestly being as dark as they are right now is such a risky move

[torn pond]

i mean, they're only dark with VV at very low brightness.

assuming players play at 50% or higher, you can see absolutely everything

[half depot]

In the vanilla game lights aren't actually meant for lighting. They are meant for keeping monsters away

[torn pond]

i mean, i think caves used to be dark in really old versions on java, right?

before they added brightness slider

[half depot]

So having to adjust your gameplay to use torches as lighting rather than just monster repellent was apparently just too much ig?

[half depot]

Probably idk

I never really dug super deep into anything below 1.0

[torn pond]

which is a shame as i personally prefer that tbh. But also, i can kind of see it.

if you have a cave build, you probably want to see the cave

and might not want to light it all up

and there isn't a way to create just a small level of ambient lighting for a large area

[half depot]

If you're doing a cave build and using MCRTX you'd wanna light up the cave for fancy effect that's like... the whole point of it lmao. But yea in vanilla this isn't an issue cuz torches are like, literally useless outside of mod deterrent

Cuz like, profit lmao

[torn pond]

yeah but i mean like
imagine you're building a batcave. You probably don't want light sources around the cave itself, only the areas you walk around, but you also don't want the cave to be just pitch black.

(i mean, maybe you do, but for this example you don't because you're rebuilding LEGO Batman 2)

[half depot]

With raytracing there's many clever ways you can manipulate global illumination to illuminate the cave without like being overly bright

Just needs some creativity

[torn pond]

hm. fair point.

and yeah i'm all for needing to use torches to light up the area, otherwise it's very dark

something i don't like is the autoexposure with VV. I'm standing next to the torch and can barely see in front of me. I move away, and this whole area around it is lit up.

now, this is an extreme example at 0% brightness

but this does actually hurt gameplay clarity

[half depot]

It's way too strong right now. I have a video literally showing that it will adjust to a diamond block if it's got any smidge of blocklight touching it

I wish I was kidding

[torn pond]

yeah i dont like that :<

[half depot]

Look at this lmao

[torn pond]

yeah that's way too much and way too easy to just have happen in a situation where it doesn't make sense

[half depot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182091012177399809/1377370223060979853/2025-05-28_15-36-16.mp4?ex=6841493b&is=683ff7bb&hm=503e466b3bf2c694e28d25a664406e05af8468e06215d62ba9c42b127efaba41&

It's hilariously broken

[torn pond]

needs a slider.

[glass basin]

it doesnt seem like vibrant visuals is ready to release in 1.21.90

[torn pond]

"autoexposure strength" slider please

[glass basin]

theres a lot of stuff that just doesnt look polished, especially stuff like the weather

[torn pond]

Yeah, it feels too early to release it properly, especially as the new default.

[glass basin]

but maybe they just want to release it as is and then continue to work on it afterwards

(which personally seems weird but idk)

[torn pond]

It's like if 1.14 released with 2/3rds of the texture update.

[half depot]

Yes VV will continue dev after release

That's been the plan

[glass basin]

I know, but i would think that they would want it looking better by now

[half depot]

Which weather did look better for a bit but the changes got removed due to some bug

[torn pond]

it will hurt first impressions of VV, sadly.

[glass basin]

exactly

[half depot]

First impressions were already bad in that initial reveal. People shit on it really bad in the Java shader communities

And on Twitter

But Twitter is Twitter

[torn pond]

Yeah but there's a difference between a very early trailer, and the release version.

[half depot]

The VV we have now is way better than the VV they showed initially

[torn pond]

yeah. Significantly so.

[glass basin]

definitely but theres still a decent amount of problems

[torn pond]

yeah

[glass basin]

i really like a lot of the biome based color grading but some of it is just too much

in the desert the sky is basically green lmao

[rough path]

I haven't seen this sentiment.

People thought VV looked stunning and popularity grew as development continued.

[half depot]

Within the shaderLABS discord many non shader devs called VV a disappointment and should stay away from Java because the solo devs do it better and the mojang graphics devs are incompetent

I wish I was kidding

However those messages are months old now so finding them would be hard

[rough path]

Well they're idiots.

Get off their high horse. They are no better than the people who say "Modders work more than Mojang"

[half depot]

Exactly

Like the fact we are getting VV at all AND that it's coming to Java is huge

[torn pond]

yeah, while VV has it's flaws and places where it could clearly improve, it's still great to actually have it.

it's a much needed update imo.

helps the game's visual consistency

[half depot]

Most of the actual shader devs I've seen talk about it like VV but believe that it could and should be way better than it is

That's a fair sentiment because that's also what I believe and I think many of us also belive

[torn pond]

specifically like, the old lighting worked well with the old textures and world detail.

new lighting works well with the texture update, and with spring to life making worlds a lot more detailed.

visual consistency is still not great within VV itself because of just how much less noticable underground light changes are compared to surface ones, so it still could use work on that, but still.

(also, it's nice to not have those goofy circular shadows)

[half depot]

This sentiment only got worse when one Java shader dev basically replicated VV in a few days.

However the dev meant no hate towards mojang or whatever. Just showing that it's possible to do

[rough path]

Java shader dev using OpenGL vs Bedrock devs using RenderDragon, working on multiple devices, ensuring performance, and had months to take feedback.

[half depot]

Yep that's the difference people miss

[tropic coral]

Ensuring performance

[half depot]

VV Has to work on EVERYTHING

and make sure it works well

Java devs only have to work on one platform

[rough path]

VV is hella performant NOW then it was initially.

[half depot]

That's also not a custom in-house made engine

[tropic coral]

That's true

Still need more optimization

[half depot]

OpenGL has multitudes of documentation and tutorials etc. Mojang had to make VV themselves off their own graphics pipeline

I swear that's the biggest thing a lot of just random community members don't understand

[tropic coral]

That's true but is also true that mojang is not an indie company

They have the resources and the people to do so

Ofc it still needs a lot of time to make something like VV

Especially having in mind compatibility with mobile devices

[half depot]

One big thing though is all the deferred features weren't just built into render dragon

To explain what I mean

Iris has built in uniforms and buffer that you can access that automate the drawing and calculation of a shadow map

It's done all the backend stuff for you

Mojang had to do all that backend stuff manually on which likely started out as a 1-maybe 3 person team

Like that's just the shadow buffer

Then ontop of that adding in all the relevant backend information to store and read normalmap and MER data from a. Resource pack had to be done (although I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled from RTX there)

There's like 5x more effort that had to go into making VV what it is then just making a cheap copy in a few days on Iris

[tropic coral]

That's a crazy small team, if they had the idea of adding something like VV to Minecraft idk why starting with such a small team knowing all the things that need to be made for something like VV

One thing that i hate about mojang is that they always show very early development of things

[half depot]

Unfortunately graphics for Minecraft isn't really invested into. Considering the development. Hell that was raytracing

[tropic coral]

Hiring veka is the answer ☝️

[half depot]

The story behind MCRTX really just is super sad

Because it could have been so much more

Thankfully VV doesn't seem like it was development hell

And mojang not announcing VV publicly but giving creators early access for feature feedback/general feedback was honestly a great call

[tropic coral]

True, I still have the hope of the graphics team doing something for rtx

I just need rtx to be stable

[half depot]

I will forever huff copium for the day betterRTX is not required

[tropic coral]

Betterrtx is something like optifine at this point

[half depot]

Mojang please just add particles to the BVH

Don't even have to do anything with them just raytrace the particles so we can manipulate them in better RTX

[tropic coral]

Fr, they look awful

Especially falling leaves at night

[half depot]

People complain about my super clean dof shots because of the particles 😭

[tropic coral]

Me for example

[half depot]

Always just like "why no particle blurred" idk cuz mojang didn't raytrace them 😭

[tropic coral]

Things that I dream about
-configurable refraction
-ray traced particle
-entity PBR
-custom point lights
-Better denoiser
-updated dlss with new features
-frs for amd folks

And volumetric clouds

[half depot]

Point lights seems a little unnecessary because of per pixel emissive GI

[tropic coral]

True, the problem is that the noise is extremely bad

[eternal shoal]

true but VV also lacks some basic effects like SSAO 🥀

[half depot]

Well a better denoiser and improved sampling would fix that issue 😂

[tropic coral]

Prob

[torn pond]

still disappointed that consoles never got RTX despite it being advertised.

[tropic coral]

That was a scam and nobody will tell me the opposite

[eternal shoal]

I will

[torn pond]

they advertised SDGP as "look, finally, shaders on console!", then cancelled it.
then they advertised RTX as "look, you didn't get SDGP, but here, better lighting on console!" and then cancelled it

[half depot]

The lore behind the development of RTX is really sad and likely when it was advertised for console yk the devs were working on it and from then they literally all left because of management issues

[torn pond]

i wonder why they failed to have proper management on that.

like, you'd think they would have put effort into making it all go smoothly

since it was a big advertised thing

[half depot]

No idea. People left the company, management refused to fill the now empty slots

[rich vault]

fun fact, in one of the recent previews for consoles, VV is no longer enabled by default

[tropic coral]

That's not fun at all 😔

[half depot]

And the final team working on MCRTX was like 4 people and almost all of them left after releasing because of how awful the management was

[torn pond]

i still don't get why they reduced the max VV render distance to 16 on series S.

it ran fine at 24

the render distance doesn't change much, if it was smooth 60 at 24, it's smooth 60 at 16. if it wasn't, it still isn't

[rough path]

Fine vs Consistent smoothness.

[half depot]

To be fair it's the like 15 year old Xbox and PlayStations that are barely functional for modern games anymore

[tropic coral]

I mean they can run gta V and rdr2

[eternal shoal]

mojang hate consoles /j

[half depot]

But they can still use VV it just won't be defaulted

Likely because it just doesn't run well on the xb1 and ps4