Scaling suggestion

[faint thistle]

Not 100% sure how you do scaling, but I have had captains ask viewers to place flagbearers to scale down, and other captains ask viewers to only place level 1 units, to prevent scale ups. If unit type and unit level effect scaling, I think that is counter to the game's design. As the game has many units, why limit players to just flagbearers. The grind of the game is to level your units, so you can make duplicates and souls, why leave them at level 1?

My suggestion is that all units have the same scaling level, regardless of level or scroll type. The more total units are placed, the more the battle is upscaled. That way, if a troll tries to upscale you by placing balloon busters, all it does is puts that legendary unit on a long cooldown for the troll. As far as the captain is concerned it is as if the troll placed a flagbearer. Scaling in this way would increase the skill in the game, as a captain can request specific units that are needed to win, and once those units are placed, they can start the battle early, without worrying about upscaling. Captains that want to play stream raiders as a side game, are not penalized as they would have their viewers placing more units, causing more / higher level enemies. This would put the ball in the court of their viewers to place the units needed to win.

Implementing my suggestion, captains still have control with downscaling, as instead of requesting nothing but flagbearers, they can mark the whole map with "do not place" markers for one battle, to downscale, or they can limit one unit per viewer.

I see the issue of small streamers who only have new players being hurt by this suggestion. So there may need to be a cut off for how many enemies are spawned for very low placements.

[faint thistle]

Another solution for small captions with new players would be releasing "batches" of enemy units. The first "batch" would be low level enemies (level 1) Once enough viewer units have been placed the next "batch" could be level 5 and so on.

[exotic swallow]

Units used to have different scaling cost based on both kind of unit and level. Flagbearer was the cheapest unit at about 30 scaling points at level 30. Most units were within the 80-120 range. Several legends were over 200, with IIRC BalloonBuster as the most expensive unit.

There have been a few times that this system has been changed and simplified. Now all viewer units are worth 3 pts per level, and captain unit is worth 7 pts per level.

It is still common though for some captains to use Flagbearer markers to indicate they want to downscale, typically at the end of their stream.

[faint thistle]

With the 3 points per level for viewer, that makes captains ask their viewers for level 1 units, instead of level 30 units, which seems counter to a grind to get the units to 30. I would feel bad if I got banned for placing a level 30 unit when the captain wanted a level 1 unit. All I was trying to do was help.

[exotic swallow]

I’m guessing there are very few if any captains that would ban based on level in campaign battles.
In coded Dungeons or Vs battles, follow the captain’s instructions.

[lunar pelican]

Units need different scaling. A lv 30 flag is not the same as a lv 30 arty

[quick ingot]

we had that unit-specific scaling initially, but it was changed on purpose to make it easier to follow, and to have players not being yelled at for e.g. placing a buster on that retro orc tank maps and fudging up scaling this way

comparing the old vs the new scaling system, the way it is now is surely an improvement

[fallow forum]

I disagree on it being an improvement as not everyone is aware that placing a level 1 arty is better than placing a level 30 flagbearer. I wish it was more widely known as even I as a captain did not know about this until a couple of events ago. Could we maybe add something to the dropdown where you say boss battle or thanks for helping out? Make it say something like Low Level Units Only Please...or something to that effect? Just a thought.

[exotic swallow]

The devs tolerate but do not endorse controlling scaling. Captains have asked for various means for assisting downscaling, such as battle plan or message for low level units. Only change they have implemented that helps control scaling is the placement cap.

[lunar pelican]

Having all units at equal scale was a mistake and broad stroke brush that fixed nothing. The system before where it was hidden until someone mined the files was not it either but it was wayy better in action if you knew what you were doing (which required knowing the power levels and that re;ied on people mining the files). All it took was someone properly attributing power to the units that makes sense. Neither this new, nor the old versions made sense because the scales were too random and not dialed in finely. But this new system is the worst way to go about it because lol at flag lv 30 being the same as blob lv 30. or arty lv 30. or barb lv 30. or phantom lv 30. or etc etc etc. it is a very dumbed down system and for the worse

[exotic swallow]

When they decided to simplify power costs, for the first month or so it was:

• Flags 1 point per level
• All other units 3 points per level
• Captain unit 7 points per level
• Captain spell unspecified but probably also something per level
  The unintended consequence of this was that captains asked for the key units they wanted, and for everyone else to fill with Flags.

Changing all units to 3 pts per level removes that imbalanced incentive towards specific units.

[grim furnace]

This is very interesting feedback! There's much to talk about here, but I want to be clear about something: Power Level is not intended to be an accurate measurement of a specific player unit's fighting abilities. We use Power Level to measure the power of enemy units in comparison to Common units. It only means that an enemy with PL 6 is a fair challenge against two lvl 1 Warriors. It also means that more powerful units are gonna have an easier time against that same PL 6 enemy. As they should, because they are more powerful than Common units.

Orc Slayers having the same PL value as Flag Bearers doesn't mean they are equally powerful. PL is just a value we use and that the system inherited from the old Power Level mechanic. It should probably have a different name, like Base Unit Points or something more technical. But it's mostly a hidden mechanic so we are not renaming it.

You can interpret the Power Level like "the amount of Power we want the system to notice from the unit you placed". And we really don't want the system to notice you placed a super powerful Legendary unit, that's why all units have the same PL based on level.