Ty (deep breath)
Silence
#building-and-recc-chat
buoyant flame
sudden solstice
O lol
I’m gonna go with a Ryzen 5 3600 and sapphire RX 580 Pulse
Mobo: gigabyte B450M DS3H
16gb of ram lol
little osprey
Hey I'm looking into a loaner gaming pc or at least financing options
pliant belfry
ibuypower does financing options
low karma
Can anyone in here help troubleshoot my PC?
foggy hazel
@low karma still around?
low karma
Yes
foggy hazel
it is recommended to post what your question/situation is. Because then people can decide if they have the knowledge/time to engage with trying to help/fix it
low karma
Ah okay
Well I've been having this issue for quite some time since about September of last year to be exact. I built this PC in August of last year and have had it completely restarting on me during games. It doesn't even have to be a demanding game such as CSGO. I found out that after the restart it resets my XMP profile too. I was playing Valorant for around an hour and it shut off on me again. I'm just so confused because I have been trying to figure out what has been causing this.
potent prairie
Like blue screen o' death or just straight out dieing?
low karma
Just straight up restarting,. No blue screen. I think I have had one or two blue screens though but none lately.
potent prairie
Is there like tearing on the screen before it dies or just straight to black?
low karma
Nope just straight to black and then it'll take maybe 15-20 seconds and then the reboot will start. Like my fans will start spinning up and then go quiet and then spin up again. That's what is taking 15-20 seconds.
low karma
Yeah do you want me to send a link?
foggy hazel
@ripe osprey could you kindly fix @low karma 's permissions?
ripe osprey
yeah def! 1 sec
foggy hazel
thank you :)
foggy hazel
@low karma post away here please :)
foggy hazel
it works .)
low karma
👍
low karma
Usually on CSGO I can but it takes a little bit. Benchmarks won't do it I've tried
foggy hazel
hm
that can be a indication of 2 things
ram related error = only happens when you hit the "bad" part of the ram, which explains the "random-ish" frequency of it
or a overheating issue
which triggers "some" part
which again makes the system boot like that
and which is the one that i would normally lean towards with the rapid boot cycling i mentioned earlier
does any of that make sense @low karma ?
low karma
Yes, that might explain why my XMP profiles get reset after the reboot
foggy hazel
the rapid boot cycling might be the reason for that
low karma
Because my gpu has got to 77 C but that is usually max and is only that hot on Call of Duty Modern Warfare
But it usually doesn't run that hot all the time
foggy hazel
as in, the system (bios) sees that the system hasnt booted "right" X number of times in a row, so it defaults back to "safe" values
77c for a gpu is not that hot
low karma
Exactly, and I think I have left the XMP at default once to see if that would fix anything but it didn't.
foggy hazel
aye, because its not the XMP part that is "acting up/that-is-bad"
it might be some specific section of the ram that is bad
low karma
I also have another question. I downloaded a RAM stress test and that pegged my RAM all the way and it didn't reboot. Do you know why games would trigger this but not a stress test?
foggy hazel
ram stress tests can, depending on how they are configured, do things in very different ways when compared to how a game would treat the ram
fx, think about it like this:
IF you take a stress test and tell it to test the write ability
it will stress the ram modules in 1 "way"
but if the error on the ram is only triggered by doing a slightly different "way"
then you can run the stress test until you are blue in the face
and you wont ever trigger it
make sense?
(and yes, this is simplified a LOT)
low karma
Yeah a lot actually. So do you think I should buy a new kit?
foggy hazel
i think you should do some good old manual troubleshooting first
because it could be something else
as i mentioned earlier, it could be some part of the system getting hot for some reason
it could also be the power supply acting up
low karma
I did hear some bad things about the green label version of my psu but mine is the grey label so I'm not sure but that could also be an issue
foggy hazel
the simple way to go about testing all of this is good old manual troubleshooting
the best powersupply in the world doesnt guarantee that you wont have a bad unit on your hands
that is just the reality of mass manufacturing
low karma
I forgot to mention that I did take a volt meter to the ports on it and it was reading normal voltage. This was about 3 months ago.
foggy hazel
yes, but that was while it was being idle yes?
low karma
Yes but I think that I also did it running CSGO and that is why I didn't think it was the psu
foggy hazel
thats the ram testing all over again
unless you hit the specific "trigger" point, your reading wont actually mean much
aside from "i have a reading (with no context)"
(and just to be clear, not trying to run you down here, just trying to give you info so things might make some kind of sense)
low karma
No I totally understand what you're saying. I need anything I can get at this point.
foggy hazel
my recommendation is doing a full tear down and running it with the bare minimum of hardware
and trying to see if you can get it to act up
fx, try and see if you can get it to act up with 1 ram stick
if no, then try the other stick, also alone
and ofc, do check that your mainboard hasnt gotten a bios update since you bought it
low karma
I actually did flash it a couple of times
foggy hazel
okay, just for the sake of things, make certain you have the newest bios
(and i dont normally recommend that, but this is "quirky" enough that it seems prudent to do)
you dont by chance have access to another PSU you could try do you?
low karma
Sadly no I wish I did though
foggy hazel
darn
the cheapest test you can do, that involves a new piece of hardware, is a new kit of ram
but i would strongly suggest trying the 1 stick tests before then
low karma
For sure I think I'm going to do that now.
foggy hazel
also, start taking notes of what the system was doing when it happens
the more details the better
also, get used to having a look at the event log after each time it happens @low karma
low karma
Okay I found it. Now what should I take note of
And I have another monitor so I can look at it while I am in the game
foggy hazel
outright errors really
if the system does a "head in oven fratboy re-enactment" you wont be in doubt
there will be error flags everywhere in there :)
low karma
There is some history of events in the "Critical" Type
foggy hazel
dont bother too much about the past events
because you are missing actual context for them
so you are fairly likely to "see" a connection that isnt actually there
low karma
Ah okay, so will I start seeing red flags while I'm in game because if my pc reboots how will I be able to see these errors
foggy hazel
IF it is something that starts throwing errors, when you get back from an "event" you should be able to see that escalation in the logs
pastel briar
Yay now I can post my builds....though i'm sure they are weak-sauce compared to others here 😄
low karma
It was at 10:02 and the details say "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly."
latent storm
so like when i build my pc do i actually need some like anti static bracelet
foggy hazel
@low karma and now you know how it MIGHT look next time
@latent storm it is considered good form. but general logical thinking does the same
low karma
@foggy hazel I found the one from earlier today to and it says the same thing..
foggy hazel
@low karma here is the "fun" part of troubleshooting something like this
what you have so far, doesnt have to be the error you are actually looking for
i know, you might want to say "but there is this log right here"
and my answer would be: Remember what i said about seeing a connection that isnt there?
low karma
Yes, I'm going to trigger the reboot now. I will be back.
foggy hazel
best of luck, i am going to go to bed :)
which i should have done a number of hours ago :)
other side of the world and all that :)
latent storm
@foggy hazel if i’m on an anti-static work surface like a wood table or just using the mobo box and not on carpet should i be good?
pastel briar
so what exactly is going on with his PC? trying to read up to see what I can do to provide help....
latent storm
or is it worth getting an anti static bracelet or something to be safe?
pastel briar
@latent storm yes, and common sense is a good tool, keep the antistatic bag and generally keep parts in them until ready for use/assembly
static temple
Does the gigabyte b450m ds3h come 3rd gen ready from Newegg?
pastel briar
(yes to first question about using box/antistatic bag, ect)
not sure, that might be something to contact New egg on, I would assume no unless specifically stated at this point
anyways my build (server?) has begun, PC soon to follow....board already acquired
My server rack, before moving things in 😄
static temple
I did they said to contact gigabyte or come here lol it says it supports it but not if the bios is updated and I’ve already ordered ryzen 5 3600 lol
pastel briar
ah
do you have a compatible CPU (for the socket) handy, if so best to use that and boot it, update the bios to latest version then install the CPU of your choice from there, I always keep a lower end CPU around for those type of situations
I have the FX 9 around just for that very reason
I think that was it
static temple
I don’t, this is my first build making the switch from console, gigabytes website states that they are ready but some reviews say they’ve gotten them and were good others weren’t
Yeah I guess I’ll see when it gets here if that’s not on the box I’ll send it back and get a different mb
Appreciate the help tho!
pastel briar
ah fair enough
low karma
@pastel briar You still around?
pastel briar
yup
low karma
Were you trying to figure out what the problem was with that PC problem?
pastel briar
just working on my server some before heading to bed, well I was going to try and help out
low karma
Ah okay, I'm just testing my ram sticks because @foggy hazel suggested I take one out then test out the other one and see what happens in the event log as well
Basically my system is rebooting without reason. No blue screen just reboot
pastel briar
could be the ram or PSU, do you have a PSU tester handy to verify the PSU is not the issue? (ive had some wonky things happen before with bad PSUs)
or possibly a bad cap on the main board or with in the PSU, starting with ram tests is a good idea, another way to test the memory is to use a program called memtest (i think, I have it on a USB drive) and test the memory that way
anyways ima head to bed now to rest, let me know how it goes and I can try to help you more tomorrow if needed
eager chasm
@low karma if it's a Ryzen system that's normal. It's trying to do ram training. You need to let the system turn on and off while it tries to auto- calibrate
low karma
@eager chasm But its been doing for months now
eager chasm
Hmmm, and how many times do you let it cycle before you stop it yourself?
potent prairie
I'd second trying different ram. Maybe take out one stick at a time and/or change channels
low karma
It doesn't really cycle it just abruptly reboots mid game.
And @potent prairie and that is what I just finished doing and it didn't reboot so that makes me think it could be a psu problem
viral ore
^ same lol
eager chasm
What GPU do you have?
potent prairie
Didn't reboot? you mean it did reboot?
potent prairie
Well if it didn't reboot when you removed a stick I'd imagine that would be the issue...
eager chasm
Do you Know how to get to your windows error log?
low karma
Yes
eager chasm
Any information there?
low karma
The only error I could find right when the system rebooted was a Critcal Error having to do with Event 41 Kernal-Power
low karma
Yes
Everytime it crashes
That's what pops up
@potent prairie So would it matter which stick was in? Because it didn't reboot when there were one but when I put 2 in again and tried it, it didn't reboot either but earlier it did when there were 2 in'
eager chasm
Ah Error 41 is the unclean shutdown error, that makes sense, but not helpful
low karma
Yeah lol that's what @foggy hazel said haha
low karma
Idk what to do
eager chasm
Could be RAM... I would have said reinstall AMD drivers if it was an AMD GPU cause that's one of the known problems
Could be a defect in the board
It's really hard to diagnose without a bunch of extra parts to test what's bad
low karma
Exactly that's the problem here
eager chasm
I got several boards with m.2 but not that spesific one, why do you ask?
little osprey
Kinda baffled. Putting my Mobo together and installing the m.2,. When I insert the SSD and screw it in I go to replace the shield for it however the big screw on it sits exactly where the screw for the m.2 is.... Not sure how I screw the shield back in
tiny yew
it could be just put one screw through both @little osprey
little osprey
It doesn't seem like it though. I didn't see anything in rules but if it's cool I can show a vid of what I mean
little osprey
Msi x570 pro carbon
eager chasm
Go ahead and show us exactly what you are talking about
little osprey
Soni guess I can't post vid so series of pics one sec
So I have it secured as such
Now when I try to put the shield back on the following happens
The shield screw sits right where that standoff is but can't be screwed in. And the manual says both standoff and shield need screwed in
potent prairie
@low karma I'd run it with one stick of ram for like a while and if it fails, switch to the other stick, then try a few days with that. If taking out a stick fixes your problem, you know the one you took out is bad and you can buy a replacement to fix your issue.
low karma
@potent prairie Nice I'm going to play some Valorant for a while because it did crash earlier with 2 in
little osprey
Dunno if I just was dumb and forgot to make sure I didn't get too long an m.2 or what lol. Hope not
little osprey
Says to screw in m2 and replace the shield to then secure it which implies to put all screws in wouldn't it? Only other thing I thought of is taking out the bigger screw and using the m2 screw in its place but big screw can't be removed
And if I remove the standoff at the end of the m2 the screw can't reach to secure the shield
eager chasm
It looks like the diagram shows only a single screw for the top m.2 @little osprey
As in you are supposed to screw it in through the cover plate
If it's too much hassle try the other slot
urban verge
@little osprey if the m.2 cover lines up with the standoff where the m.2 SSD is screwed in, you do not need both screws. One is enough to hold both in place.
eager chasm
The diagram pretty much shows what's what
lost umbra
Well seems like all the decent mobos i wanted are out of stock
Advice for a good ryzen 3700x mobo? probably a 570 since I have a HAF X still. Just going to use 1 video card and I don't need wifi but I have an oculus so I would prefer more usb in the back
I was going to get an rtx 2080 super as well
Was thinking about a i7 9700x but the ryzen seems like such a better deal
sorry 9700k
eager chasm
Yea, the money saved in going for Ryzen can be put back into the rest of the system for better performance overall
lost umbra
I tried a few times today to get a few different mobo's but I couldnt even get through checkout before stock out
little osprey
hey guys do you think I should get a 2060s, 2070, 2070 super or a 5700xt??? Paired with a 3700x
My mb didn’t come with an sad shield
eager chasm
Holy crap MB prices have skyrocketed... Covid-19 strikes again
urban verge
@lost umbra I love the I/O on the AORUS Pro Wifi that I have. The AORUS Elite is essentially the same board minus wifi.
little osprey
Also should I enable over provisioning
urban verge
Built mine last August, so I have no idea how prices have changed tho.
eager chasm
@little osprey any card can pair with a 3700X it just depends on the cost and features you are willing to spend at that point
lost umbra
$200 for the reg aorus elite, I was going to get it but reg is out of stock only WIFI available for $210
eager chasm
Personally i'd go with the best performing card you'd be willing to buy
urban verge
@lost umbra I think that's what pushed me to the Pro Wifi too, back when 3000 series was still new. 😂
eager chasm
X470 is also a viable option instead of X570
urban verge
^ Also true.
eager chasm
You don't really lose any performance at all
urban verge
I was hesitant back then when BIOS updates were a bit iffy, but they seem to have stabilized quite a bit.
eager chasm
Most of the boards are also pre-updated
Only real advantage to X570 over X470 is PCIe 4.0 which you won't even use unless you get a high end NVMe and are doing something insanely data heavy like editing 8K footage
And possibly better support for 4th gen CPUs, but we don't know yet
lost umbra
huh ok, well I will keep looking then, might just wait until all this mess is over
thanks everyone
low karma
@foggy hazel @potent prairie So I swapped the two sticks and it still crashed. Might buy a new ram kit but I want your opinions on what I should do next before I do.
potent prairie
Darn. My money was on the ram. Maybe try a booting from a different disk? If it still crashes, I'd try using your cpu's integrated graphics to narrow down your problems.
A different boot drive could also eliminate the possibility of it being and OS thing, tho that's unlikely if you're not getting blue screens
(@low karma )
low karma
Well I recently freshly installed Windows on my pcie 4.0 m.2 and that didn't fix the problem and my cpu doesn't have integrated graphics
It's a Ryzen 3700X
potent prairie
Ah. Well then see what Naed suggests. I don't know how to identity what the issue is from here.
Unless you have some spare gpus and PSU s laying around
low karma
I don't that is the sad part
low karma
Thank you
wary tundra
Where did you go?
humble jacinth
opinions on MSI brand graphics cards?
buoyant flame
Depends on the card
humble jacinth
GeForce GTX 1660 Super Gaming X
sullen spoke
I prefer evga cards
foggy hazel
@low karma you try running with just 1 stick as we talked about earlier?
humble jacinth
My Build:
Gigabyte B450M DS3h AM4 Mobo
AMD Ryzen 5 3600x
Crucial Ballistix 16gb
MSI Geforce 1660 Super Gaming X
Silverstone 600w 80 Plus Gold SFX PSU
All for less than $900
stoic island
Fair enough
eager chasm
if you can get it for those prices then sure, but motherboards, RAM, PSUs are all going up in price
other parts may soon follow
humble jacinth
Already ordered it
humble jacinth
best brand of thermal paste/grease?
celest horizon
Best budget? MX-4, best enthusiast for air/water, even LN2? Kryonaut, GC extreme, KP-X.
stoic island
Thought kryonaut was for delidding? (Spreading directly on the die, not the head spreader)
celest horizon
That's conductonaut
celest horizon
And tbh - I replaced the conductonaut under my 7700k IHS with Kryonaut since any liquid metal is crap for LN2
liquid metal atop the IHS is even sillier
stoic island
Interesting
humble jacinth
Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut?
stoic island
I kinda want to try some kryonaut as thermal paste
It's not that expensive
It might give me a reason to repaste and remount my d15.
Nt-h2 should be good enough for air tho
rough loom
I used Hydronaut on my AIO. its good stuff. Kryo would be that much better
celest horizon
Kryonaut is just thick, it's a non-issue on something like a D15 which has a foolproof mounting system to apply precisely the right amount of mounting pressure.
Some dinky AIO - idk about that.
rough loom
You have to spread it really evenly and be careful how you do
celest horizon
PSA - too much paste usually just means too much mess - adequate mounting pressure will prevent any loss of peformance
Eh - Intel dekstop - two lines down the center is fine, AMD - x with dots
But nothing wrong with spreading
celest horizon
I appreciate that kryonaut isn't that expensive given how little can go a long way.
humble jacinth
anyone ever use a thermal pad?
rough loom
something like NT-H1 i would use the dot or grain method
celest horizon
A graphite one? Don't. A rubberish TIM pad- all the time for stuff like vrm cooling or memory.
NT-H1 is another great, H2 improved
humble jacinth
yes graphite
celest horizon
I wouldn't advocate for the dot, ever - but it's really splitting hairs at that point.
Reason being - look at what a 9900k die is shaped like.
rough loom
huh i didnt know they made a H2 version
celest horizon
It's very rectangular.
Even with the media engine / igpu on one end, and the system agent on the other , the cores are still kinda laid out in a rectangle.
cold sorrel
Lovely. Now the case I wanted for my build has gone out of stock. It does have a notify button, so at least they expect it to come back. Maybe in June things will be less crazy.
foggy hazel
@celest horizon you are trying to logically talk about a subject that has frothing as a requirement
i fully agree with you, but ... yeah
celest horizon
Ya - if someone used a pea dot - I'd never tell them to re-do it
heck, even when I botch the mount, I just push it back on again, cba to clean it all off again unless going for tryhard hwbot internet points
foggy hazel
aye
celest horizon
Just don't go full Verge and draw a pentagram
foggy hazel
people treat thermal paste like it is going to jump of the IHS and eat their face
sudden turret
most I've done I did a square, for obvious reasons.
sullen spoke
pentagram 
foggy hazel
at least we have the Verge to cover "being the Verge"
stoic island
@celest horizon that's one of the reasons I want to repaste, I did a dot.
cold sorrel
Man, making fun of that video is never going to die is it?
foggy hazel
in the IT world? it deserves to never be forgotten
sudden turret
lol
brazen turret
hello
foggy hazel
you know, they did put soo much effort into it and all that
celest horizon
If you do liquid metal - I recommend Sally Hansen top coat insta-dry for insulation
cold sorrel
Just a pity I found out about the trainwreck too late to ever see the original video for myself. (Because I think they yanked it down)
celest horizon
What funny to me is how many internet critics were egregiously wrong in their own criticism
foggy hazel
i blame you Forks, for that tea snort
celest horizon
If you run two sticks in the same channel - you still get 16 GB...
And honestly - that PSU will probably last just fine, he's not going to push it hard enough
foggy hazel
it showed a fair deal about how a fair number of youtubers, really dont do all that well, when there isnt a well planned scripts
celest horizon
I'd feel more sorry for the guy if his response was better than "nah, they're just a bunch of butthurt internet trolls, I did fine"
celest horizon
Right - it's just like any other first time builder
foggy hazel
aye, a heck of a lot better actually
celest horizon
Stuff like opening the psu box like a dog expecting a new toy was hilarious though
little osprey
cerulean burrow
analog hearth
lyric thistle
But it's tasty
sullen spoke
I just ate 10 poundws of thermal paste this morning
foggy hazel
@cerulean burrow skip the rgb and have at least a 8 core, 2080Super, with a SSD (instead of that spinning mech turtle) and that should be possible for less than what you have listed there
deep skiff
yeah if its for gaming you could do a lot better for less without rgb https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2Ybftp
cerulean burrow
@foggy hazel I have an SSD on hand I am going to use
deep skiff
yea
sullen spoke
buy all the ssds
cerulean burrow
I can't store all my games on a 512 GB ssd tho
sullen spoke
you don't really need all your games installed, you just need the ones you play
cerulean burrow
I changed parts around like y'all suggested, and it costs more
deep skiff
you dont need a 360mm aio, get a ryzen 3600, you can get non rgb ram for around $30 less, you can get a nice case for under $100 with rgb and tempered glass, and you can get rgb fans for half the price
something like this https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2Ybftp
foggy hazel
( @deep skiff please note that 2 * 16 is cheaper for ram)
deep skiff
o didnt realize that
i originally was just gonna do 16gb but i assumed they had 32gb in there for a reason, so i left it and just added another kit
low karma
@foggy hazel Yeah I was running thrm 1 stick at a time last night
foggy hazel
@low karma darn
@low karma sorry mate, PSU update time it is
not much else it might be by now
low karma
You think it's the psu?
foggy hazel
logically its the next thing to try
lets say i had gotten this onto my workbench at work
IF i wanted to test what specific part was acting up
i would isolate each part as much as possible
that requires a psu
low karma
Exactly, well do you know of any reliable psu's out there?
foggy hazel
because by your own retelling of things: the only thing that is still around, is the psu basically
aye, plenty :)
low karma
Because I have a Corsair CX750M right now
foggy hazel
aye, just keep the following in mind
it might not solve anything
and maybe getting a identical model to your current PSU solves it
because as things stand, there isnt that much "logic" behind your errors
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fq4BD3/phanteks-amp-750-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-ph-p750g_us01 <- that is a suggestion @low karma
i would have suggested 650, but not in stock
low karma
Alright looks good! I'm going to buy this and I'll let you know how it works! Should I use the cables it comes with or will it even matter?
foggy hazel
use the cables that come with it
you can just test it with the psu outside the case
does not matter one single bit
no need to tear your current build completely apart for testing that
low karma
True
simple stag
hey pals
update from yesterday from those who remember
turns out my RAM was causing the issue of causing my PC to restart after like 20 minutes again and again
wary tundra
Naed you on?
foggy hazel
@wary tundra i am, but internet is jumpy, rain storm here
wary tundra
oof
My friend wants the best pc you can get for $800 and Im conflicted if I should give him a ryzen 5 1600af with a 5600xt or a ryzen 5 3600 with something like a 1660ti
im leaning towards the 1600 af with the 5600xt and then he can upgrade his cpu later down the line ( even though the 1600af is a solid cpu)
foggy hazel
@wary tundra with some patience https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wtQnFG
note, the cpu is overpriced as all heck right now
same for t he specific psu
but, patience
wary tundra
I didnt know it was that much
looks good
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XhMxCL I made this list. he wanted 1tb of storage and something kinda flashy so I slapped on some cheap rgb ram.
I could put the tuf on this list but he told me he wants a full atx mobo
I dont know why though
foggy hazel
tell him to stop being silly
also, keep in mind, that forced 74 usd on the cx 550 .... you would have to be really really really lucky to getit for that
same goes with the 85 on the 1600 AF
foggy hazel
thats why i generally dont have lists with enforced prices saved
except, it isnt in stock, and hast been for a while
hence why i have the 450w on my list
foggy hazel
i would like to see that, before i believe that :)
because "available in 1 week" does not mean it will be "available in 1 week and 2 minutes"
there is a VERY good reason that most e-shops are using rolling stock updates now
because people are being illogical and people are also looking for ways to scalp the heck out of things
wary tundra
they're planning on building a pc this summer so hopefully they will be stock by then
wary tundra
evo plus is better I believe
meager panther
is there anything better except speeds
celest horizon
wary tundra
the evo plus is kinda overpriced
little osprey
Welp today I found out one of my ram sticks commited self die
meager panther
i heard samsung is more durable than other ssd's
wary tundra
dont quote me but I believe the evo plus has faster write speeds
meager panther
bec i have kingston mp510 480gb and its speed is decreased after 5 month
i formatted and it became normal
or secure erase made that
yeah about speeds yes
but are there anything like better vnand or something i dont know
foggy hazel
that is reliant on the controller @meager panther
wary tundra
the evo plus has 96 layers of v-nand
foggy hazel
the nand type etc really doesnt matter for the regular consumer
its a bit like worrying about VRM quality on a machine that will check facebook and play solitaire
wary tundra
thats the only difference I could find
foggy hazel
@meager panther long story short. IF you sleep better from knowing your SSD has a Samsung sticker on it. Please buy samsung then
otherwise? dont
they are generally overpriced
foggy hazel
lets compare numbers :)
meager panther
i have seen a video 1 months ago
foggy hazel
what is the cost of the 500-ish gig samsung you had your eye on?
foggy hazel
you know, the one that has Bannerlord bundled with it
meager panther
970 evo is 900turkish liras in my country
bannerlord is 130tl on here at steam
so ssd will be 770 turkish liras
suggest me an ssd and i will look at the price and let you know
and we can compare
foggy hazel
gah!, we so very much need a big fat banner that says: Tell us what region of the world you are from
regions matter for availability and models
meager panther
turkey
foggy hazel
this is not your fault @meager panther
:)
just me ranting at a common annoyance :)
meager panther
i said it in up messages and i thought you will get it
foggy hazel
missed it :)
lyric thistle
Could be a roles thing?
celest horizon
between drives in the same price range /size - sticker rating for max read/write shouldn't be taken too seriously
meager panther
foggy hazel
nand endurance is NOT a topic that i would want to get into, without knowing i have a couple of hours of full attention from the person i am talking with
celest horizon
Best to look at reviews on anandtech, tomshardware, storagereview , servethehome to see what kind of performance to expect during actual use.
endurance is easy
Don't worry about it
foggy hazel
Forks, yes, for you and me. Explaining it to average consumer ?
no
not without invoking a "just nod your head and trust me" command
meager panther
i have seen comments like yours and i was buying a samsung ssd
after hearing like you guys said i bought corsair mp510
and its speed down after 5 months
actually not 5
4 months
foggy hazel
What OS are you using @meager panther
foggy hazel
(because that sounds like TRIM not running)
meager panther
what is trim
celest horizon
I mean - I have two 960s, 3 970 pros, 10 840 evos two 860's - I'm as samsung fanboy as can be lol
It's just really, really hard to exhaust a drive's nand memory
meager panther
i format my pc yesterday so i cant post a low speed screenshot
but here it is its status
stoic island
MP510 gang
meager panther
90-120 gb
foggy hazel
that sounds "odd"
meager panther
i was going to say to my friend go buy mp510 thats cool but after i witness this speed drop i said go buy samsung to him
stoic island
Interesting because me and a friend of mine both got MP510s, I've had my drive for 5 months now, my friend 7 or 8
no problems
meager panther
i saw a video in youtube and that channel tested 10k hours for 860 pro and still same as first day
foggy hazel
the silicon power a80 is 70 USD
foggy hazel
if you could have a bit of patience :)
the point is this:
from our perspective, samsung is overpriced as all heck for consumer machines
now, in regards to your comments about endurance.
Hey @celest horizon you feel up for explaining it in detail?
meager panther
if you could have a bit of patience :)
sorry i have a problem like that sometimes :(
@stoic island can you send a pic of cdm
this is after i used secure erase+
celest horizon
I don't know the sticker specs off the top of my head but that's fast
meager panther
if it is close to him its probably because of me
foggy hazel
you are looking at the sticker and blaming the real world for not conforming to that :)
celest horizon
The number in the bottom left is most important
meager panther
so you guys suggest to me a standart ssd can do gaming and streaming
celest horizon
Bottom right too , less so
foggy hazel
@meager panther the TLDR is that you can start here : https://www.anandtech.com/show/2738
and yes, that article is 11 years old now
the concepts are still very very very much true
celest horizon
My first ssd is mentioned in that article, only ssd I've ever had die lol
celest horizon
vertex ii ya
foggy hazel
that was a "fantastic" piece of weirdness in the shape of a ssd
celest horizon
$120 60GB lol. such god awful i/o performance too
Even the samsung 830 I got in 2012 is 1/5 the i/o performance of any cheapo sata drive today
foggy hazel
:)
celest horizon
While backing up various pcs around the house last year, I ran this for fun https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/20019814
foggy hazel
we (industry) have come a LONG way since then
celest horizon
The 905p isn't in there and that makes everything on that list look like an IDE drive
foggy hazel
:)
stoic island
one sec
@meager panther I have the 960gb version, so my write speeds will be a fair bit faster.
this was a while back
havnt done it since
lemme do it again now
meager panther
huge diffecerence on your writing speeds
foggy hazel
because of the model
foggy hazel
it is not that simple
meager panther
speeds changes when capacity becomes more
celest horizon
Generally - ya, bigger drives of the same model are faster, but it's not really linear.
foggy hazel
as mentioned earlier, read the Anandtech article if you want details
stoic island
I'm gonna run it again now.
celest horizon
Usually it's the 250gb drive that's slower, sometimes the 512 is a bit slower than the 1tb, then 1/2tb are large enough it doesn't matter
foggy hazel
depending on controller
but also depending on nand type
and amount
and stacking style
stoic island
iirc it is because of the larger nand flash that comes equiped with larger drives?
and that gives faster writes
meager panther
are they changing when their capacity larger
stoic island
(I know everything depends, but I'm asking for the pattern)
meager panther
vnand type etc.
foggy hazel
@meager panther read the article, it answers it all, because what you are asking is "simple" on the surface, but complex to actually answer
and it is not that i dont want to talk about
meager panther
okey i will check it out now
foggy hazel
it is just that, its a bit complicated :)
@stoic island you see the pattern-ish i mentioned above?
stoic island
Yea I see, just was typing the message while you were typing that so didn't see while typing
Hmm okay looks like my random 4k q32t16 perf is down quite a bit
666 rn
still running
Though I havn't cleaned up the drive or anything at all
my writes are down too
celest horizon
Found the other userbench from the same backup session lol https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/20058159
foggy hazel
@stoic island ask yourself this: 30 minutes ago, did you think: Geee! my drives sure are slow!
stoic island
Nope, I'm doing it for the health of the drive, since I have been reading and writing off of it quite a bit lately
foggy hazel
just leave it
stoic island
?
foggy hazel
let it handle its own thing
stoic island
I mean clean it up as in get rid of extra download files and such lol
I'm not gonna like go crazy and reformat it or something
foggy hazel
sure, just dont go bonkers about it
stoic island
Yea.
I mean that is 1/3 the old write speed, not an issue for my usual use, but what is the reason for that?
foggy hazel
semi used flash cells
stoic island
I see
foggy hazel
semi used <- as in, leftover bits here and there
it just "is"
its not meant as: semi worn out
so please dont read it like that
latent storm
idk where else i should ask, but is this a good wifi adaptor?
celest horizon
The 128 GB 840 pro's I have have 20 TB's put through them each - still 84% life left
foggy hazel
also MLC Forks
stoic island
I don't like how some folders looks like they're just random stuff and I have to check what it really is
thats prime95 and thaiphoon burner
I saw that forks
celest horizon
Nothing interesting lol
I do recommend installing the samsung nvme drivers - they're slightly better than the microsoft in-house drivers.
stoic island
linus
celest horizon
one is a picture of me, the other is not
celest horizon
lol, idc
foggy hazel
yes dear ISP, your internet is totally NOT spiky
thats with a machine trying to grab one big file
stoic island
Ain't looking too good
buoyant flame
oof
foggy hazel
@shut rampart what have you done with your current machine?
shut rampart
noting my friend wants a 2k build
long escarp
hey folks, looking for graphics cards recommendations around $300. Currently running a Ryzen 5 1600, ASRock AB350 pro4, 24gb of DDR4, and a 750w PSU
lunar cargo
im from @shut rampart
I want 2k pc build
I want it for streaming editing and gaming
foggy hazel
@long escarp if you can find it in stock, any nvidia 2060 at or very very close to 300usd is reasonable
lunar cargo
and if its possible can you convent it to rubbles my currency
shut rampart
hi bear
lunar cargo
hi
foggy hazel
i have absolutely zero experience with the russian market
long escarp
What do you guys think of the 1660 super?
lunar cargo
ah ok
foggy hazel
so you know that finding the specific parts might be a bit of a challenge for you
lunar cargo
well I will find a way to get it to there
foggy hazel
fair enough
@long escarp also, as @young pebble said, check out evgas midweek stuff
its a start if nothing else :)
@lunar cargo so, lets get started then
do you need wifi?
lunar cargo
yup
foggy hazel
as in, do you have a potential use for it?
young pebble
2060 Xc ultra 289 till midnight
foggy hazel
@young pebble be mindful, sometimes its weird warranty on there
lunar cargo
I have e cable
young pebble
Just a recommendation
foggy hazel
aye aye, just mentioning, to people are reminded about it :)
@lunar cargo is your budget the machine alone or is that machine+monitor(s) and other things?
lunar cargo
machine + monitor
foggy hazel
any special wishes for monitor?
lunar cargo
no
foggy hazel
what kind of games do you play?
foggy hazel
what you most likely want is a 24 inch model, with a VA or IPS panel, 1ms response time
120hz refresh or above
lunar cargo
120 above
foggy hazel
i am going to let you try and see what your local places have available
because prices on monitors and what is available in the US (at the moment) is completely out of whack
lunar cargo
because of the virus?
foggy hazel
(also, dont worry about english)
aye, stock levels and prices are very weird at the moment
and it comes back to the region availablity
some specific monitors are just not available in certain regions
lunar cargo
well I might move to usa
foggy hazel
(that part has nothing to do with covid)
foggy hazel
that aint helping you now :)
lunar cargo
yup
foggy hazel
any special requirement for case?
foggy hazel
big hulking lump of metal or something smaller?
foggy hazel
there really isnt a price difference as such
shut rampart
He's looking for a mid town
foggy hazel
its just a choice of preference )
foggy hazel
i am just looking over what i have of EU based builds, because region is closer etc
shut rampart
jk @lunar cargo
fiery pier
@foggy hazel
I am back again with a dumb question
foggy hazel
@fiery pier there are no stupid questions, only silly answers
fiery pier
I found a cheap graphics card.
Used, it says it was used in a mining rig. What does that mean?
foggy hazel
normally it means that you dont know how hard it has been used and under what conditions
long escarp
or some type of crypto
doesn't mining usually entail pretty heavy use for prolonged periods of time?
foggy hazel
it depends entirely on the mindset of the person running the mining operation
lunar cargo
are you done naed
fiery pier
Is that even a decent card for that price?
foggy hazel
give me a bit mate, availability is a bit of a trick here @lunar cargo
lunar cargo
oh ok
long escarp
that card retails new for $240usd
id just buy new at that point
like naed said you dont know how hard it was used
exotic lichen
Does anyone know a server on discord where u can sell pcs?
foggy hazel
@lunar cargo okay
keep the following in mind
this is a suggestion on parts
not a "this must be these specific parts" list
foggy hazel
and there are 2 monitors on the list, because BOTH are potential suggestions for it
and yes, i am aware that the price doesnt match. etc etc etc
and yes, it is based on the availability in germany
because region
(so before any lurker starts suggesting things, understand that the list is a suggestion for parts being found in russia)
fiery pier
I'm coming to the conclusion I'm going to have to buy a new graphic card. I was trying to avoid the $300 price tag.
lunar cargo
oo thams
foggy hazel
was it something like that you thought about @lunar cargo ?
@fiery pier welcome to the hungry hungry hippo that is the pc hobby
fiery pier
I'm not even doing heavy gaming.
Mostly
Photoshop
Adobe illustrator
After Effects
AutoCAD
foggy hazel
to be fair, the 5500xt does have a nice chunk of vram on it
open orchid
i hate to come here and ya know ask this but can someone check my PC build? make sure everything works?
open orchid
will do
foggy hazel
could you just send me the link, i will post on behalf of you
the bot will keep on eating the link, because its our new user spam prevention :)
open orchid
im such a noob lmao ive never built one and im scared its not gonna mold and work together
foggy hazel
on behalf of @open orchid
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/333MK4
open orchid
but that makes sense
open orchid
makes sense
PCS are weird to start out building but i could definitely see this as a hobby lol
foggy hazel
:)
open orchid
all these build pics are so nice bro
foggy hazel
so, normal procedure is to ask you a number of questions, to get an idea about what you actually "want/need"
lets start with budget
is 1700 usd your max?
open orchid
it can go to about 2000 USD
open orchid
no i just did some research and know its better than i9 for gaming
foggy hazel
elaborate on what you mean by that
(trying to figure out how much you know here)
open orchid
dude i know almost nothing lmao
foggy hazel
trust me, there is a long way from nothing to the list you posted :)
open orchid
anyways, i did some research and know AMD ryzen is a good brand but just intel seemed better in my opinion im not sure what the specific specs are compared to a rival AMD board that runs abt the same
foggy hazel
its all about price really
and what you get for a given amount
on that front, AMD can whip the intel options
keep in mind, that is how the market is "now"
open orchid
any suggestions for an AMD board that could replace the intel if the AMD can whip intel
open orchid
will hang on :)
foggy hazel
we (tech community/industry) know that both AMD and Intel will release new CPU's this year
open orchid
thats true
foggy hazel
what we also know is that intel will be using a new socket
meaning, if you buy a intel system now. congrats, that is it
no next generation cpu for you
opposite is true for amd
open orchid
which means if you got an AMD you could upgrade
foggy hazel
they have committed to allowing the next gen on their current generations board
yes
depending on how you value that
open orchid
so you dont have to change most of your build bc of the new socket
foggy hazel
aye
well, on the intel side, it would "just" be board
because ram type is staying the same for the next generation
open orchid
yea but boards are expensive, def not the most expensive but none the less
foggy hazel
which is why i wanted to tell you about it
open orchid
i mean thats really good to know, bc i wouldnt build this til may
meaning the new socket would already be out
foggy hazel
because it all factors in. at least in my opinion
IF you are not building until then
dont worry about a build "now"
seriously
there is normally a 3-4 week MAX lifetime for any given list i make
open orchid
the only reason i have it is cuz i was gonna have it by auguest ;-;
but that makes sense so that new systems dont come out?
foggy hazel
IF people want something (a list) for further out than that, i tell them to come back 1-2 weeks max before they are ready to buy
open orchid
ah okay that makes sense
foggy hazel
keep in mind, Covid does play havoc with that to some degree
open orchid
so should i scrap it and restart whenever i have the money?
foggy hazel
because stock is bonkers
open orchid
yea i know, hopefully i start working again soon
kinda put a giant dent in my ideas ;-;
foggy hazel
please understand, it is not that i dont want to make a list
but it just doesnt serve any real purpose (if i am trying to keep your best interest at the forefront)
open orchid
yea i understand
kind shuttle
Naed please help
foggy hazel
and that is what i generally do :)
open orchid
i mean ill make a list whenever i have the budget to do so
foggy hazel
@kind shuttle please wait until i am done with the current situation :)
kind shuttle
Ok
open orchid
so i can budget and make sure i have enough if that makes sense
foggy hazel
@open orchid it makes 100% sense to me :)
open orchid
i guess ill have to keep an eye out for the AMD stuff and look around
foggy hazel
also, keep in mind, with the world being what it is. Yes having a pc is nice, but food etc is more important :)
let me just grab a similar-ish build you can compare it to
open orchid
yea i know, luckily i still have my 2 parents working (cuz im 15 rn) and were in a good scenario just boredom got to me lmao and i wanted to try my hand at a PC when this is done
okay thank you <3
foggy hazel
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XfJkyk <- that was put together yesterday
similar, but slightly different
open orchid
thats a prime mobo just bc of the wifi lmao sucks not having ethernet
foggy hazel
:)
but that gives you something to think about at least @open orchid
any other questions or anything?
foggy hazel
you are very welcome :)
kind shuttle
The spring loaded screws on my wraith cooler appear to be too short to get to the mobo and I don’t break something
foggy hazel
and do come back down the line :)
kind shuttle
Naed is the best
foggy hazel
@kind shuttle backplate is most likely not pushed towards the board
hence why the screws cant reach
kind shuttle
What surface can I put the thing on while I work on it
The mobo box isn’t sturdy enough to keep the plate in place
foggy hazel
where do you have the board right now?
kind shuttle
On the mobo box
foggy hazel
that should be sturdy enough
foggy hazel
got your build list @kind shuttle?
kind shuttle
One sec
Even with the backplate pushed against the board the screw needs a lot of pressure to get there
foggy hazel
or something that can actually be labelled as useful?
kind shuttle
But the outside of the fan thing also slightly hangs over the top of screw making it hard to go straight down
One thing I got is a good screwdriver
I think I just found one that might be more suited to this task
Naed do I screw it all the way down?
Or just until it’s firmly in place
kind shuttle
Yep
foggy hazel
@kind shuttle for now, just get each screw to "grip"
kind shuttle
I managed that
foggy hazel
all 4?
kind shuttle
Once I got the first pair of opposite corners it got a little easier
I found a screwdriver w a skinnier shaft that helped
foggy hazel
now, you just screw each "diagonal pair" in by about ½-1 rotation, and then you do the other pair
and back and forth you go
does that make sense @kind shuttle ?
foggy hazel
basically yes
kind shuttle
Ok
foggy hazel
the spring will stop you
kind shuttle
Got it thanks
foggy hazel
np :)
open orchid
one more question i have while looking thru builds
foggy hazel
ask away
open orchid
do you need a CPU cooler? the build Naed sent me doesnt have one but idk if AMD puts them with the CPU
foggy hazel
there is a actually decent one, included with the CPU
open orchid
okay i didnt wanna buy extra parts thanks again lol
kind shuttle
How many standoffs do I install? Enough for every screw hole on the board?
foggy hazel
yes
kind shuttle
I pick the 2 same color
foggy hazel
there is a diagram that shows you
and you are going to need the manual for the pinouts for the case itself too
stoic island
What happens if you take it off? Other than warrenty void
kind shuttle
Explosion
lyric thistle
Lol
lyric thistle
Get some thermal pads and heat sinks and stick them on there
stoic island
Interesting
foggy hazel
show a picture (so i dont answer for something that is basically a misunderstanding)
kind shuttle
foggy hazel
the QR sticker can burn in a hot place
kind shuttle
Ok
foggy hazel
the SP sticker (black one) stays
(sometimes the QR one is not there)
hence why i asked for a picture
you can remove the small sticker next to if if you want
kind shuttle
Ok
I think motherboard setup is done
I installed cpu and cooler
I did the RAM sticks and the SSD
foggy hazel
did you check the manual for the ram?
kind shuttle
Yes
foggy hazel
and what slots (when counting from the CPU) are the stick in?
foggy hazel
aye
kind shuttle
Do standoffs go straight into the case
kind shuttle
Yea there are
The holes are marked A, M, or birth
Both
That mean anything
Atx vs matx?
Also should I hand screw them
foggy hazel
m = m-atx
wary tundra
I wish I could build my pc again 
foggy hazel
and both = holes used for both types of board
foggy hazel
there should be a total of 8 standoffs needed iirc
kind shuttle
Ok
foggy hazel
however, i would STRONGLY recommend that you take a serious look at where your CPU cooler is connected
still roostBOT
Atlas#7543 has been warned
foggy hazel
well, that is for you to figure out @kind shuttle
kind shuttle
The manual says that’s where cpu fan goes
kind shuttle
I thought I did it right
foggy hazel
:)
foggy hazel
:)
kind shuttle
I also just realized only my left contact is in
foggy hazel
to be technical about it, there are 3 total fan connectors :)
kind shuttle
Lmao
foggy hazel
now, find the right one :)
foggy hazel
bingo :)
pastel briar
Cpu fan should go where “cpu” is and fans go into “fans” (headers are generally labeled as “cpu” or fan1 - fan <whatever>
kind shuttle
Screwing in the standoffs is harder than it should b
foggy hazel
the reason this is important is this: The bios will look for "something" on the CPU_Fan header, and complain LOUDLY if there isnt
kind shuttle
Got it