storage-devices

[zealous bramble]

But at that point you're better off getting a SAN anyway

But for a performance PC power user I no longer see the need for mechanical hard drives

A lot of the data is now "in the cloud" or as I like to call it "On someone else's hard drive"

[torpid adder]

slow

[zealous bramble]

Like my steam library

I used to have towers of CD's to hold my games

Now it's just a username and password

[torpid adder]

not that slow if you have fast connection between but still

[zealous bramble]

I can download what I want when I want from the games I have a license to

I have 500mbps

of access speed

I'll be just fine for a long time with 2TB of NVME

And by the time I run out the 4TB should be more affordable

I bought 2x 1TB WD black back in 2011 and it lasted me until 2019

Had them in Raid0

So I think I'll be able to spend a good 18 months to rebuilt the empire of dirt

It's not unrealistic to thing that this could go down to 200-300$ in the next 18 months

NVME's will be priced similarly

[pallid tusk]

I’m ready for it

[rancid plover]

Im hype for it, but im gonna drop money on some M.2s before they drop again (not the 4.0 stuff)

[zealous bramble]

Yeah that's what I did

Got a 2TB Sabrent pcie 3.0

Waffles here went all out and got the firecuda

[pallid tusk]

Yes

Cause I am the definition of more money than knowledge when it comes to pc building

[zealous bramble]

Not a bad choice

With tech everything's a terrible investment

You just have to choice what is the least bad one 😛

[pallid tusk]

Lol nice

I’m off to bed, see ya

[zealous bramble]

Later

[red jay]

Can someone help me identify a problem i have with my pc? I have an m.2 ssd (Intel 660p 1tb) and an MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX. My pc is just a little over 1 years old but i've always had a boot time of over 1 minute. I've tried everything can someone help me?

[torpid adder]

Disabled startup programs?

[red jay]

yup

it was even when i first installed windows

so it's been there from the beginning

[torpid adder]

Hmm

I'm grasping at straws

[red jay]

hahahah same

[torpid adder]

I'm thinking maybe do a sfc /scannow but idk how missing files would lead to longer startup times

How full is the drive?

[stable ore]

Bought a WD black 1tb m.2 for 150$ + tax, then a week and a half later it went on sale for 20$ less

[pallid tusk]

That’s a mega oof

[stable ore]

Made it worse was that it was marked as being on sale in the physical store when I bought it, but then at the register it was not... Now im not a Karen but in my mind I was a bit ticked off that it was priced incorrectly

I just went with it instead of saying anything

[pallid tusk]

Being mad things aren’t priced correctly doesn’t make you a Karen

[stable ore]

True

[pallid tusk]

It makes you some guy who doesn’t want to get scammed

[stable ore]

I guess I mean I didn’t want to make a scene

[abstract parcel]

you can say hey i saw it was marked off with out making a scene about it though

its about how you approach it that makes you a karen or not

[stable ore]

True

That employee was odd

Approached me to ask if I needed help, but instead of starting by saying “do you need anything” he was like “damn dude what cologne do you wear!”

I don’t wear cologne

He clearly was smelling something else

[small steppe]

Haysee#9999 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[stable ore]

I didn’t use the g word in a derogatory way there but okay

Maybe he was attracted to men and that was how he flirted but idk... it was awkward

[zealous bramble]

Whether picking up on these signals is a good thing or not is up for debate

I think it's not worth risking a false positive

I've done that in the past. Turns out the lady was just friendly and wasn't particularly fond of me.

That turned into a multi-year humiliation and alienation fest

Whereas the downside of dismissing these signals is someone who tries to tell you something without telling you anything will not get their message across

[vast patrol]

can someone help me make an ssd my boot drive

[heady raven]

@vast patrol elaborate please

[vast patrol]

i just sanitized an nvme ssd and i need help adding to the system as a boot drive

[heady raven]

what is your OS currently on?

[vast patrol]

my hdd

[heady raven]

size of that?

and size of the nvme?

[vast patrol]

the hdd is 1tb and the ssd is 239

[heady raven]

your hdd is not by chance partitioned is it?

[vast patrol]

tbh i have no idea

[heady raven]

how much free space do you currently have on the hdd?

[vast patrol]

225 g

[heady raven]

hm

this is going to be a mess to do

the quickest way would be to do a clean windows install on the ssd

[vast patrol]

if it boots to the ssd then would it be on the hdd

[heady raven]

expand on that sentence please ?

[vast patrol]

so if it booted from ssd would it just be a clean verson of windows and how would i get all my hdd data

[heady raven]

if you did a clean windows install, you would have to reinstall a lot of your currently installed programs/games

but, you would ofc have full access to anything stored on the HDD

[vast patrol]

so you're saying i cant use both at the same time?

[heady raven]

see the last line :)

[vast patrol]

so would it boot and i see everything i have?

[heady raven]

aye

BUT

you would have to install your programs etc

so there is no data loss

[vast patrol]

so i cant combine them and keep all my data and games

[heady raven]

you will be keeping all your data

BUT you need some kind of clean start to get it to work (in a beneficial way for you)

[vast patrol]

would i have to wipe my hdd?

[heady raven]

no

as i said

there is NO data loss

[vast patrol]

windows is installing

so i just need to do stuff in setting to make it so they are working together?

[heady raven]

and i cannot help you if you just randomly "do" things

[vast patrol]

wym

[heady raven]

you say that windows is installing?

what exactly do you mean by that?

on what?

from what?

[vast patrol]

yes im doing a clean install on the ssd from a usb drive with windows

[heady raven]

do yourself a favour

shutdown the machine

pull the power from the HDD

and then do the windows install

[vast patrol]

completely disconnected hdd and install it?

[heady raven]

simply to avoid potential corner case issues

just pull the power plug from the HDD. that is all you need to do

(while the machine is powered OFF ofc)

[vast patrol]

ok ill get back when windows is done

[heady raven]

okay :)

[vast patrol]

now it wont boot with the windows setup page

[heady raven]

boot from the usb stick

[vast patrol]

ok thanks

[heady raven]

np

[vast patrol]

so what do i do when it installs do i just sign in with my Microsoft account?

[heady raven]

if you have one? yes

[vast patrol]

so now that windows is opened up what do i do

[heady raven]

its done installing?

[vast patrol]

yes

[heady raven]

@vast patrol

okay

pull the usb stick for now

turn of the machine

plug in the hdd again

power it on

go into bios and set the boot order to use the SSD as the first thing

save and exit on that

then when you are in windows, give a yell :)

[vast patrol]

im in

[heady raven]

okay, please verify that you can see the HDD in the file explorer

[vast patrol]

yes i can see it

[heady raven]

good

so far so good

as things stand right this second, you have now verified that you have not lost any data

true?

[vast patrol]

true

[heady raven]

good :)

https://ninite.com/ <- please go there and select all the programs that you normally use

just tick off the ones you want

then scroll down, and click the "get my ninite" button

then run the file you get from that

its the quickest way to get all your small programs installed

[vast patrol]

will it look the same as it did before

[heady raven]

in what way?

[vast patrol]

background and apps in the same locations

[heady raven]

to some extent yes

because you now have 2 storage drives, there are a couple of changes that i would recommend for Steam for example.

[vast patrol]

but would it looks the same for with a few setting changes and would i need to re install drivers

[heady raven]

drivers we will get to. because those need to be reinstalled

for now, just do the ninite step above

[vast patrol]

i finished that

[heady raven]

okay, then go do device manager and check that there arent any yellow marks

[vast patrol]

would the marks be on the disk drive info

[heady raven]

no?

[vast patrol]

i dont see any yellow marks

[heady raven]

good

then please run windows update

[vast patrol]

its up to date

[heady raven]

you checked now? or are you basing that on you making the usb stick today?

[vast patrol]

i checked by hitting the power button and it doesnt say update

[heady raven]

that is not the same

press winkey, type update

select windows update from the list

press check for updates

[vast patrol]

its updating

[heady raven]

good :)

[vast patrol]

says a lot of thing are pending install

[heady raven]

aye, just let it work

and when its ready, there should be an option to restart/install now

the usb stick you used. Was that a original (as in, official microsoft usb key) or did you make your own via the media creation tool?

[small flower]

ioio

[vast patrol]

i made my own

[heady raven]

ok

then the updates should not take "that" long

[vast patrol]

its re starting

[heady raven]

just let it work

:)

when it gets to your desktop again

run windows update again

[vast patrol]

im in

[heady raven]

see above :)

[vast patrol]

so do i check if there is an update again?

[heady raven]

yes

[vast patrol]

why doesnt it show the activate windows thing

[heady raven]

did you not have a license before?

[vast patrol]

no and i dont have one now

[heady raven]

then it will show up after a while

[vast patrol]

ive checked for updayes once more and there is nothing

[heady raven]

okay

now, you normally use steam right?

[vast patrol]

yes

[heady raven]

please open steam, and lets get that setup and ready for the 2 drive setup :)

in steam

go to settings

click downloads

click "steam library folders"

that opens a new window

in that one: click "add library folder"

that opens yet another window

at the top of that window, there is a dropdown menu

click that and select the HDD

then click the "new folder" button

click ok

and then please tell me what it says in the drop down menu

[vast patrol]

it says choose directory name

[heady raven]

you skipped the "click ok" line :)

[vast patrol]

it says new steam library cant be the drive root now

[heady raven]

you missed the "then click the "new folder" button" line

[vast patrol]

it says that folder already exists now

now it works that i changes the name of the folder

[heady raven]

side question: you on discord ON the machine?

or still on phone?

[vast patrol]

phone

[heady raven]

did you select discord from ninite or?

if yes, then please login to it

because then grabbing screenshots becomes much simpler

[vast patrol]

how do you ss on windows

[heady raven]

winkey + shift + s

then just drag a box around what you want to screenshot

then just press ctrl+v here in chat :)

[heady raven]

thank you

just select the SteamLibrary folder in the list

and then press Select

[heady raven]

now, select the F:\ line

and right click and make it default

[vast patrol]

ok

[heady raven]

that does the following:

When you choose to install a game from now on. IF you dont change the location of it from the install prompt. it will automatically go to the HDD

you always have the option of selecting the SSD in the install prompt ofc

[vast patrol]

is it possible to have my memes from the hdd accesable?

[heady raven]

That is just a question of navigating to them via file explorer really

[vast patrol]

its set as the default but the games say install

[heady raven]

yes, and your question is?

[vast patrol]

so i have to re install?

[heady raven]

no, you have to move to the next step :)

as i started out by saying

so. next step:

F:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps <- navigate to that folder

[heady raven]

open the "common" folder

now, you have to decide if you want all the games you have there installed or not?

or if you just want a select number of them

[vast patrol]

i only want to select a number

[heady raven]

hold ctrl and then click on the ones you want to keep

when done with that

release ctrl

right click on one of the selected folders

select "cut"

then navigate to this folder:

F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common

[vast patrol]

how do i do that

[heady raven]

how do you do what?

[vast patrol]

cut

[heady raven]

see the line above

[heady raven]

you cannot show this

the moment you do the screenshot

you cancel the cut

so

hold ctrl and then click on the ones you want to keep
when done with that
release ctrl
right click on one of the selected folders
select "cut"
then navigate to this folder:
F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common

do that

and when you are in that folder, please tell me

[vast patrol]

it says that folder dowes not exiatr

exist

[heady raven]

please explain how you navigate there

also, if its easier for you, we can do this via voice?

[vast patrol]

yes its easier

[heady raven]

give me a moment to grab a headset :)

[cobalt thorn]

Does anyone know a good external hard drive enclosure?

[rancid pike]

wasnt there something about a cache-ess nvme ssd being slower than a hard drive?

because ive been looking into getting just a cheap 250gb m.2 drive as a new boot drive, and a few other things but the ones with caches are SO much more expensive

so would it true that a cache-less m.2 would be slower than a hard drive?

yea, theres a $40 difference between the 2

[minor sun]

It won't be out of the gate, but it will deteriorate much faster than a drive with dram. Personally, I have a Team MS30 without dram that is about as slow as my HDD after just a few months of use.

@rancid pike and what drives are you looking at?

usually dram vs non-dram isn't that big a price gap

[rancid pike]

its basically this

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/3vWBD3/kingston-a2000-250-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-sa2000m8250g

vs this

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/BDYLrH/samsung-970-evo-plus-250-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v7s250bam

[minor sun]

Samsung is overpriced 95% of the time

but lemme find you smth

[rancid pike]

its the cheapest one

Canada is the problem

[minor sun]

what you on about

60cad:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/L3jNnQ/crucial-p2-250-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-ct250p2ssd8

[rancid pike]

that doesnt show has having a cache for me

*as having

[minor sun]

hm?

where are you looking

Oh right P2 doesn't use dram, it uses HMB

still preferred over no cache at all, just a performance disadvantage over dram

[torpid adder]

how does HMB support work?

[minor sun]

passes the thing to ram afaik

[torpid adder]

yeah but what I mean is, what I read about HMB says it's not widely supported, or the mobo has to support it

[minor sun]

I'm checking rn but not seeing any specific mobo having to support bit

[torpid adder]

hmm

maybe not then

[minor sun]

anyways

I'm manually looking for dram now

just in case

@rancid pike this has dram
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/xzCD4D/kingston-uv500-240gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-suv500m8240g

wait

it's sata

wait a damn moment

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/3vWBD3/kingston-a2000-250-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-sa2000m8250g

[torpid adder]

oof

[minor sun]

A2000 has dram

[rancid pike]

thats an ssd tho

M+B config

[torpid adder]

Kingston

[minor sun]

the A2000 you started with has dram

[rancid pike]

wait what

[minor sun]

PCPP tagging being weird prob

well I didn't know that actually

thought low end kingston NVMe drives didn't have dram

TIL

[rancid pike]

interesting

its also like, the second cheapest 250gb ssd which makes me mildly supsicious, but eh

[pearl swan]

tbh there's good sales going on for samsung rn in canada

[paper parrot]

Hey guys, idk if this is the right place for this, but I have a general question involving SATA ports/cables. I just finished up my first build last night and when I had finished installing steam onto my computer and then started a game download, the allocation of the files too 30-40 minutes. Otherwise when I had allocated it to the SSD instead of the HDD (which I know is faster but still) it took 15 minutes for the whole download. Any tips?

[heady raven]

@paper parrot nothing you can do beyond not use a HDD

and it has nothing to do with sata ports/cables

it has everything to do with how HDD's work.

[paper parrot]

Ok, just wanted to make sure there's essentially nothing I can do. Thanks

On my end at least

[heady raven]

sorry mate, thats just how the tech works

[abstract parcel]

if you need the mass storage and want to have games on the hdd while annoying you could download on the ssd then transfer it to the hdd overnight

[upper quiver]

why not just download to the hdd

moving the files to the hdd is gonna just take longer

[abstract parcel]

if time is the issue then I just leave it over night so I could play the game at the moment

and have it move while I sleep its just a recommendation

[pallid tusk]

1tb

[hoary plume]

i suppose at this rate ill ask here, any suggestions on a gaming grade 1tb ssd

[outer bane]

yeah if you dont mind spending a little more samsungs are quick and they are the only ones I get

[upper elbow]

I can't find much clear information about this, so maybe someone here can help. Do M.2s running in PCIe mode consume PCIe Lanes?

I've seen multiple sources say "no" - but they're somewhat old-ish and I don't trust them.

[outer bane]

the answer is sometime yes and sometimes no

depends on the board and which slots you use

the motherboard will usually describe which slots share lanes

and obviously if you plug a nvme into a pcie card and use it that way you are using lanes

I guess the answer is always yes but sometimes those lanes were dedicated soley to the nvme slot so it doesnt affect anything else

@upper elbow I see now that this answer is an hour late

[upper elbow]

lol, that's fine, no one else answered it 😉

I guess we'll find out. If one of my drives runs unusually slow I'll know why at least.

[outer bane]

just read the motherboard manual it will tell you

[minor sun]

^

[upper elbow]

I did and I can't find an answer. Either it's not there or I am just blind.

[outer bane]

what board

[upper elbow]

Slot 3 disables two sata ports is all I can find

[minor sun]

If you give mainboard model we can tell ya

[upper elbow]

GIGABYTE X570 AORUS Master

[minor sun]

There

[outer bane]

M2_A and M2_B are free

[upper elbow]

Ok, so all three should work at speed then, it just disables SATA 4 and 5, which I already knew it did so that's fine.

[minor sun]

Mhm

[outer bane]

yep

[upper elbow]

Ok, thank you 😄 - I got a bit worried thinking about it because when I slotted this M.2 into my current (much older) board it caused some issues.

[outer bane]

nope should be just fine

[upper elbow]

I had to remove the soundcard or it just, would not boot at all.

Not really sure why but I assumed it disabled that pci slot and it was very not happy.

[heady raven]

some boards do that @upper elbow

this is some of what you get around with newer chipsets

[outer bane]

well it does look like M2_C disables that pcie slot the Pcie4.0 x1 slot

in addition to the two sata ports

but that leaves you 3 pcie slots left which should be enough

[upper elbow]

Yeah, that's fine. At most all I can think I'd put in there is a soundcard or a capture card.

Even those are maybes

If the onboard audio is good enough then a dedicated soundcard is a moot point

[outer bane]

I haven't owned a soundcard in a long long time

[minor sun]

ALC1200/1220 are usually good nuff, not better than a dedicated sound card, but usually good nuff.

[upper elbow]

Yeah, there's almost no point for most people anymore.

[upper quiver]

mr1111 have you been on discord all day?

oh thank goodness im just an idiot and that message is from like an hour ago

phew

[loud estuary]

team mp34 i believe is good
also samsung but it's a bit expensive
western digital
@upper elbow
- WD and Samsung are not good across the board. You should recommend models, not brands :)
Brand can be a factor, as with warranty, but specs are more important... so like recommend the SN750 or smth, not just Samsung

[red jay]

when installing 2 m.2's one boot and one 1TB storage, is there a difference to what slot either ones goes into?

[outer bane]

not usually check motherboard manual to make sure one isnt faster than the other

[twilit pond]

Advanced data recovery on failed mSATA SSD Drive?

[heady raven]

@twilit pond search locally (as in, the country you live in)

[earnest copper]

My ssd had recently started to go extremely slow (less the 1 mb/s) and I was wondering if anyone knew of a solution

And I’ve only had it for ~1 year

[outer bane]

what motherboard?

might be using a bad controller

[earnest copper]

Asrock b450m

My hard drive is working just fine though

[outer bane]

is the pro/steel legend/etc...

[earnest copper]

Steel legend

[outer bane]

your hard drive is in a different sata port

[earnest copper]

I’ve plugged it into all of the possible ports

It’s works fine but when I restart the computer after trying a new port it goes back to the bad speeds

[outer bane]

so it works fine until a restart

[earnest copper]

Yea

[outer bane]

is it in AHCI sata mode in bios?

[earnest copper]

Idk

I can check

I am not currently home but when I get home I will

[outer bane]

also do you use any software to TRIM/defrag/reprovision?

[earnest copper]

No

I don’t think so

[outer bane]

you do need to

[earnest copper]

Ok

What is one I should get

[outer bane]

well windows can optimize it also many ssd manufacturers have their own

[earnest copper]

Ok

Thank you

[outer bane]

no problem do that first then hit bios if still having trouble

[earnest copper]

Ok

[outer bane]

and you can hit us up on here and we can walk you through bios

[earnest copper]

Awesome

[spark flint]

Seagate Firecuda or Samsung 970 PRO

[minor sun]

neither

[spark flint]

What's your recommendation?

For NVME PCIe gen 4 that is

[outer bane]

gen 4 too expensive with out a benefit

[pallid tusk]

For not gaming

[outer bane]

for anything really

[spark flint]

I'm gonna be doing some workloads involving astrophysics and engineering stuff in the near future so I figured I might as well have the fastest drive possible

[outer bane]

wont matter

[minor sun]

unless you need to load 20GB of data at any time

no use for those over a MP34 or SX8200 pro or SN750

[outer bane]

and had a CPU to keep up with that instant 20GB

a 970 evo gen 3 is all the speed anyone really needs

[spark flint]

A ryzen 7 5800x?

[outer bane]

if real worried buy 3 of them and raid them together

@spark flint maybe like 10 5800x's working in tandem

[spark flint]

Lmao

[pliant yoke]

If I have get an rtx 3080 gpu and ryzen 5900x how much storage should I get?

[latent barn]

@minor sun is mp400 good

@pliant yoke storage doesnt affect performance but i would get 1tb mp34 and a hdd

Depends on how much money u tryna spend

[outer bane]

if you got the money there isnt anything wrong with getting a 970 evo

[latent barn]

970 is scammaz

If ur gonna pay the money for a 970 get sn750

[outer bane]

I mean the samsung is much faster

like 20%ish

[latent barn]

Not noticable

[outer bane]

they key is to only buy 1tb 970 evos when they cost $130 or less on sale

[latent barn]

I guess

[outer bane]

but I agree having your game load 1 second faster out of a 20 second load time isnt anything to write home about nor are 15 points in your 3dmark score

[latent barn]

Yep

[outer bane]

I get all mine from best buy just wait until there is a sale on newegg/amazon/tiger direct and have them price match

[verbal belfry]

Somewhere in YouTube I saw a guy building a budget pc he asked us to ge an ssd in second hand now cuz Facebook is updating their survers and a lot of them will end up in eBay

How do you know that kind of ssds?

It was long ago btw

Really long time ago

[red jay]

is a samsung 850 evo in 2020 a solid pick ?

[latent barn]

No

[hoary plume]

ye

[latent barn]

Mp34 nvme ssd

[hoary plume]

if im looking for a main storage nvme, around 1tb, what's the play?

the board im looking at has room for two nvme's, and i was thinking using one for boot and the other for game storage, then throwing other files on a ssd on m.2

[torpid adder]

MP34 ig

[torpid adder]

sure

if you want faster, then go with the 980 then

then then 😳 dammit

I'd go MP34 because cheap, but not crap :p

[golden flax]

is it true that seagate HDDs typically fail more than WD HDDs?

[rancid pike]

I feel like it’s the other way around, but not sure

[woeful solar]

I've heard both sides before, honestly not sure

been running seagate drives in my nas for a couple years and they haven't failed

[quiet sparrow]

I was going to buy a 970 EVO 500 GB, however Is there a 1tb SSD around the same price

[golden crane]

is it true that seagate HDDs typically fail more than WD HDDs?
My Hitachi is still kicking after 10 years of almost constant everyday use

[heady raven]

@golden flax everything fails, just a question statistics

if you are storing anything on a harddrives that you want to make certain you keep. Have a proper backup of it.

[golden flax]

ok thanks

[abstract parcel]

https://www.newegg.com/crucial-p1-1tb/p/N82E16820156199?Item=N82E16820156199 need opinion on this theres a promo that brings it to like 89

[dusk pawn]

@autumn veldt HI

[autumn veldt]

lol

?

[pallid tusk]

Seemed unnecessary

[rancid pike]

Prolly just cause he’s a mod and people are weird

[pallid tusk]

People seem to forget that mods are real people just like them

[upper quiver]

@abstract parcel https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1542819-REG/intel_ssdpeknw010t9x1_665p_1tb_ssd_m_2.html

[abstract parcel]

may i ask why that is better?

[upper quiver]

its not that much better, but its like 5 dollars cheaper lol

[minor sun]

Wat

Just get p1 smh

[abstract parcel]

both are 89

[upper quiver]

the newegg listing says 94

[abstract parcel]

newegg has a promo for the p1

[upper quiver]

in all of toms hardwares testing the 665p was slightly better than the p1

[abstract parcel]

@minor sun so p1 ? also since this isnt for me and its for a friend does it have dram i dont wanna get something that will degrade like the sn550 that you told me to swap

[minor sun]

Has dram

[upper quiver]

665p also has higher write endurance

665p also has dram

[minor sun]

Does 665p have higher write endurance tho

[upper quiver]

yes

[minor sun]

I'm pretty sure p1 has a bigger slc cache tho

[upper quiver]

665p performs better overall

[minor sun]

I'd have to check

I thought p1 performed better

[upper quiver]

against the 660p, yeah

but not the 665p

[minor sun]

Hm

Oh well, on mobile, hard to check

P1 is a solid option either way

[upper quiver]

every toms hardware test puts it above the p1

[abstract parcel]

ill read up on both but good to know

[upper quiver]

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-ssd-665p-m2-nvme-ssd/2

this review has the p1 in its comparisons

[abstract parcel]

im working with mr1111 1000 dollar list and swapping stuff

[minor sun]

Alright

[abstract parcel]

danka for the help

[pallid tusk]

Is there a language that’s that close to German?

[prime bramble]

i think the scandinavian ones

since theyre germanic too

unless you consider austrian and swiss german a different language

[heady raven]

danish is fairly close in a way @pallid tusk

norweigan and swedish, not so much

[abstract parcel]

my boss just says danka so it became a running meme

[pallid tusk]

Austrian German is real German 😡😡😡

[prime bramble]

ok ok

lol

[pallid tusk]

🔫

Don’t you say otherwise

[prime bramble]

🖐️ 🔫

[heady raven]

to my ears, dutch can sound (depending on dialect) like german (again, depending on dialect)

[pallid tusk]

I just didn’t know if there was a different language that said danka cause it’s really close

[abstract parcel]

lol all cuz a running work meme i love it

[spare carbon]

Does the Samsung 970 EVO NVME have DRAM?

[upper quiver]

obviously

imagine if a seriously overpriced ssd didnt even have a dram cache

[spare carbon]

Is there a better option for a 500GB NVME?

[abstract parcel]

i mean the sn550 dont and they arent cheaper than some of the ones mentioned earlier

[quiet sparrow]

What is a good NVME 500gb SSD and HDD setup

preferably around 100-120 USD

[fathom siren]

Anyone here that can help?

[heady raven]

have you actually asked for help?

[fathom siren]

Not yet

[heady raven]

then no

[fathom siren]

😦

[heady raven]

if you dont ask. people cannot help

but, do NOT ask to ask.

[fathom siren]

i wanted to see if anyone was here to answer my question

[heady raven]

its rude as all heck

its akin to me going up to you while you sleep, poking you until you are awake, then asking "are you awake?"

just ask your question and wait.

its that simple.

[fathom siren]

Alright man chill, i didnt poke anyone or @ anyone

I have this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TY2TN64?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1)
but nilboggen told me to get 2 of these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFM524H?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1)
He said that it was just as fast as the 1 i got but im not so sure of that. Whats your take on it?

[thick mulch]

umm

in raid it should be around unnoticeable

[rancid pike]

ya'll are cancer

no but actually tho

tetrachloroethylene is a carcinogen

[thick mulch]

haha

[quartz lintel]

yo

what is best ssd

for price

[thick mulch]

samsung NVME drives are good

[quartz lintel]

like under 100

[thick mulch]

also trancend ssds are cheap and fast

i reccomend NVME

[quartz lintel]

someone recommended mushkin pilot

e

[thick mulch]

umm

wait a sec

which capacity

[quartz lintel]

1tb

[thick mulch]

hmm

[quartz lintel]

its in this build https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LrY7Xb

[faint reef]

So I am planning on buying a Crucial MX500 250gb ssd and right now I have only taken up 200gb of my HDD could I just copy my hard drive data on to the new SSD? (Also please tell me if there are better SSDs in the $35 to $50 price range)

[thick mulch]

@quartz lintel the intel 665 p would be my choice but

it will be good

[quartz lintel]

ok

thank you

[thick mulch]

the crucial p1 is also good

@faint reef I have a solution

[faint reef]

Any info would be great I'm rather new to PC's so

[thick mulch]

here are some steps

download a cloneing software, and connect the new drive. select it, and let it work its magic. after that its like nothing changed except it is faster.

[faint reef]

Any software recommendations?

[thick mulch]

wait a sec

I use one a lot just forgot the name

[faint reef]

Acronis?

[thick mulch]

i use ease us

[faint reef]

Alright I'll check it out

[thick mulch]

it has worked for years, easue us mobi mover

ease*

[faint reef]

Thank you so freaking much man

I appreciate it

[thick mulch]

its cool man

[faint reef]

Wait one more question do SATA cables come with the SSD or should I buy separate ones

[thick mulch]

the mostly come with motherboards

but the SSD should come with them

I have a million there a dime a dozen

[faint reef]

Alright thanks a million

[thick mulch]

u got it

[faint reef]

I looked through the description of the SSD on Amazon and apparently it comes with a cloning software already. Plus it has step by step instructions

[heady raven]

lookup macrium reflect @faint reef

its what most people use for cloning in the consumer world:)

[faint reef]

Alrighty thank you!

[teal spade]

CAnt afford ssd

[upper quiver]

ok

[minor sun]

ok

[dusk pawn]

@desert cedar hi

@bold ether ji

@red jay hi

[heady raven]

@dusk pawn no.

[warm meteor]

I can't seem to get my asus x570 to see the teamgroup nvme I just put in

Can't install winbkow

Nvme raid mode is enabled.

[upper quiver]

turn off nvme raid mode then

[warm meteor]

Well it says I did

[upper quiver]

good, leave it off

[warm meteor]

Oh you said off. Not on?

[upper quiver]

yeah off

[warm meteor]

I just turned it back off then

[upper quiver]

good

[warm meteor]

Can't see the nvme in boot sequence

[upper quiver]

restart pc

is ssd installed properly?

might wanna double check

[warm meteor]

Yeah. Bottom under the heat sink

[upper quiver]

also, is it in the top most m.2 slot

[warm meteor]

What's weird is it sees it on main bios but not anywhere else

[upper quiver]

oh, so the drive is detected by the bios

good

[warm meteor]

It sees it on main bios but nothing else

Is this a case where I just need to reformat it from the explorer? Or should it be here in boot sequence?

[upper quiver]

it shouldnt be in boot sequence yet

there is nothing on it to boot from

[warm meteor]

Each time I go to install windows it only shows my hdd

[upper quiver]

turn off CSM

it should be in the boot options tab

[warm meteor]

What's csm

[upper quiver]

oh, first, go into advanced mode

i think you can hit F7

to get there

[warm meteor]

Yeah

Launch csm is disabled

[upper quiver]

ok

[warm meteor]

In advanced

[upper quiver]

idk what else would cause it not to show up in the windows installer

[warm meteor]

Should I just try rebooting into windows installer and see what happens? Maybe changing bios might have helped?

[upper quiver]

yeah

worth a shot

[warm meteor]

OK so just changing boot sequence to make sure it's the thumb drive then the sata

OK here goes lol

OK so I'm guessing 512gb is actually 476?lol

[upper quiver]

yes

but before you unstal

[warm meteor]

Ok

[upper quiver]

delete all partitions except for Drive 0 Partition 4

the 930gb one

do not delete partition 4

[warm meteor]

OK I even the recovery

[upper quiver]

yes

even that one

[warm meteor]

Oh there's two recovery. OK all of them but 4 deleted

[upper quiver]

now select the drive 1 unallocated space and hit next

[warm meteor]

OK thanks for your help

[fathom siren]

Is there any noticeable difference between 3500mb and 2000mb transfer rate?

[warm meteor]

I was told not really

Someone had said anything over 500 is good to go. I got a 3k read on this ssd but think that was unnecessary for my needs

Uh it's rebooted and is just sitting on a black screen

OK express settings it is

Clock_watchdog_timeout?!

[cerulean depot]

Hey, I’m a first time PC builder, and I’m trying to find a proper storage setup somewhere in the $100 range. Any suggestions?

[heady raven]

@cerulean depot for which part?

ssd?

hdd?

or a combination?

[cerulean depot]

SSD or a combo, not looking for pure hdd. Going for a gaming build

[heady raven]

2 ways you could do that

either go 1tb ssd

or go 512gb ssd + 2tb hdd

personally i would take the 1tb option

and then add a hdd later IF you need it

[cerulean depot]

I was leaning towards the 1tb SSD more, because of the slightly better performance and I won’t need that much more space

Yeah

Having a hard time deciphering what is actually needed in an SSD rather than just marketing

[heady raven]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Y6YLrH/team-mp34-1-tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-tm8fp4001t0c101

that is your answer

re: what is actually needed: its a mix of things really. The specific controller matters. The flash type matters.

and a number of related specs tied to each of those two matter :)

the linked drive above, fits all of that

IF you want more details, please ask OR look in the pinned messages :)

either of the two google sheets linked in there has all the info

[cerulean depot]

Thank you! Really appreciate it

[heady raven]

you are very welcome

[cerulean depot]

@heady raven I’ve been looking through the reviews and found that a lot of people had the drive fail on them immediately or after a couple of months...idk if you have experience with the drive at all

[heady raven]

i do

not had any problems

keep in mind, if you are reading pcpartpicker reviews or vendor site reviews ... they are close to useless

[cerulean depot]

Why is that (I don’t necessarily listen to the 5 star reviews, just ones that give a descriptive review)

[heady raven]

because a LOT of customers have bugger all idea about "why" something failed

but almost universally, its certain they will forget to mention that time they did their new dance routine on top of the part that broke

[fathom siren]

lmao

[red jay]

Clock_watchdog_timeout?!
@warm meteor try bios update otherwise it can be cpu issue

[warm meteor]

I gotta install all win and drivers and everything. Trying mkeeps having issues

[cerulean depot]

Lmao

[white geyser]

Is there any way to fix hard drive clicking? Have an old 2tb. Might have to just open it up and see

Tried doing chkdsk but no dice

[golden crane]

Sounds like its dead

that sounds like a headcrash

[white geyser]

It works, just sometimes makes an annoying click sound

If it reads or writes

[heady raven]

if you have anything on it that you want to keep, copy it out ASAP @white geyser

[white geyser]

Yea I have a backup

[heady raven]

then, do you need a door stopper somewhere?

because that is all i would trust it for

[minor sun]

aka. @white geyser very likely those are the clicks of death.

Which is not something you fix

it's just something that tells you your drive is reaching the end of it's life.

[warm meteor]

Worth installing cod on the ssd or leave it on hdd?

Just realized I can probably just load it from HD. But 252gb.. Dang

Gd it won't give me permission to access my d drive

[small reef]

I got 2 500 GB hdds that we’re in raid (I forget what one) windows died and the files are gone, I don’t care about them, I can’t access the drives even when both are connected. Any help

I just want my 1tb back

Also I think I have 2 ssds same size same problem

[round shoal]

Is seagate firecuda m.2 nvme 520 series pcie gen 4 ssd a good storage?

[rustic vigil]

are western digital blue hard drives good?

[mossy token]

Hi

[left tendon]

@rustic vigil They’re fine.

[frosty condor]

And recommendations for m.2 SSDs with high read/write speeds? I've been comparing specs from a few, but there's just so many lol

[heady raven]

@frosty condor normal recommendations are the mp34/sn750/sx8200 pro

[red jay]

Hey guys i got a question, I'm new to pc building and i wanted to ask a question. Can i just take my hdd from my computer and just plug it into my new pc and keep all of my game data?

[heady raven]

normally, if you are building a machine now, you would be using a ssd. But yes, in theory it should work.

I say in theory, because i dont know the details of your current setup

[red jay]

i have a laptop that has a added 1tb hdd

[heady raven]

if anything, i would clone that to a ssd

clone = direct 1:1 copy without data loss from one drive to another.

[red jay]

well im on a tight budget sooo...

[minor sun]

SSDs are a good investment, and not a big investment either.

[red jay]

i know i just gotta save my pennies

[white geyser]

What are best regular hard drives nowadays?

Seems to be there's different "types" like for NAS, Surveillance etc

[heady raven]

in the "good enough" range of budget. the 2tb barracuda compute HDD is a solid contender @white geyser

[blazing bough]

Does anyone know for m.2 drives that have decals on them. Will the manufacturer void the warranty if its removed so the m.2 can use the heat spreader designed for the motherboard?

[heady raven]

generally, the "decal" is a heattransfer decal

aka, there is a very very thin metal layer in it

[autumn veldt]

hihi i found naed

as always storage device

or gpu section

[heady raven]

or any of the other channels @autumn veldt

what brings you out here in the sane part of the server?

[blazing bough]

@heady raven ok. Never had a m.2 drive before so it's new to me.

[heady raven]

@blazing bough if you look around for reviews of them, you will generally see a "peel" of the sticker being part of the review (or a mention of what the sticker is made from)

also, yes, they generate heat, but it wont be a problem even if the sticker does not transfer heat all that well

[blazing bough]

@heady raven alright sounds good. Thanks.

[heady raven]

you are very welcome @blazing bough

[boreal hinge]

for an SSD should it be exfat? or ntfs? an m2 card @heady raven

[heady raven]

ntfs

[boreal hinge]

there we go!!! its working yay!!

[heady raven]

well done @boreal hinge :)

[boreal hinge]

that was pretty harmless minus the graphics card scare lol and windows going no ssd here!

[heady raven]

:)

[boreal hinge]

thank you for being so awesome Naed and everyone that helped me out

[whole prawn]

I got a white label hard drive from goharddrive like a week ago, anyone know what the failure rates on these things are?

[heady raven]

@boreal hinge you are very welcome :)

[loud orchid]

Can games be on the same m.2 that have my os on

[heady raven]

yes

[loud orchid]

Ok

[viral burrow]

what is a good but cheap nvme ssd (1tb), the 970 looks a little pricey for me

[heady raven]

sn750/mp34/sx8200 pro <- @viral burrow your pick

[viral burrow]

[dusk smelt]

i went and ordered an intel ssd6 and then got a call that they suck.... why is it reviewed so well ? got recalled before it even got shipped...

[upper quiver]

ssd6 isnt a model number

fyi

do you mean 660p? 665p?

[dusk smelt]

yeah those dont remember the model since they never left the shop

[loud orchid]

Do i need to use backup software or just use my external hard drive when times comes

[upper quiver]

obviously its good, there is a reason its like 200 dollars

also no one cares

theres no reason to waste money on gen 4 ssd

get a gen 3 ssd

whats that supposed to mean

ok? idc

do you need help with anything?

[round echo]

daddy’s money be like

[upper quiver]

rule number 9

[loud orchid]

Give me 😳

[whole prawn]

If i bought a bunch of white label hard drives (Basically refurb hard drives) and ran them in Raid 6, lets say 12 drives would it be safe enough to keep personal data on? assuming a monthly backup to something off site

[dim epoch]

mp34 or sn750?

[minor sun]

if at same price, sn750

[dim epoch]

k

[lucid junco]

Anyone know which m.2 ssds are gonna be compatible with de PS5?

[calm kraken]

I want to buy an 2.5 inch ssd but i dont have where to mount it should I just use double sided tape in the hard drive cage?

[keen quail]

I've seen someone just tuck it behind the power supply

i dont think it hurts since its an SSD

[calm kraken]

thx

[fast eagle]

hey guys

what are the best brands for ssds

[jade sail]

i think samsung is up there

[fast eagle]

yea for sure

i would assume wd blue to?

[jade sail]

i got the 2tb wd blue m.2 sata drive a few months ago. no problems yet

[fast eagle]

nice

[minor sun]

@fast eagle

[fast eagle]

whats up?

[minor sun]

Don't go for brand

Go for the model

Like I will completely reccomend the Team MP34 SSD, great SSD with a great controller with a great rated read write at a great price

At the same time, I will do all I can to stop you from buying a Team MS30 SSD

Applies to all brands

Say you take WD

SN550 bad drive, SN750 great drive

[glad oxide]

are those Crucial SSDs good?

found a 1tb one for 60€

[heady raven]

i am not aware of any good 1tb for 60€

[glad oxide]

its used

[heady raven]

specific model?

[glad oxide]

I have a pic

[heady raven]

send as a dm @glad oxide

[shadow olive]

I found a Samsung 860 evo 500GB for 54$, should I get it ?

I don't have a build yet and I was planning on getting a crucial p2

[heady raven]

used drives from consumer places = bad idea imo

[shadow olive]

It's not used

it's new, on newegg

https://www.newegg.com/samsung-860-evo-series-500gb/p/N82E16820147674

[minor sun]

@shadow olive Naed was responding to the guy above who was getting a used drive afaik. 860evo for 54$ is good, especially you need SATA, but imo P2 is still better for the higher speeds.

well, P1 would be better

[shadow olive]

oh ok

[minor sun]

P2 would be meh, don't really like HMB

[heady raven]

@shadow olive <- you will generally see me use a @ exactly to show that i am responding to you :)

[shadow olive]

ok (:

[heady raven]

that is a discord setting @shadow olive

[shadow olive]

So should I get the P1 500gb or the 860 evo 500Gb?

Also, I changed the setting

[minor sun]

If they're the same price, P1.

[shadow olive]

Yeah, they're the exact same price

[heady raven]

on behalf of @glad oxide https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775465368130682900/775465398870474813/Screenshot_20201109-200352_eBay_Kleinanzeigen.jpg

[glad oxide]

should be faster than my 500gb, 5900rpm hdd

[heady raven]

except, as i said: "used drives from consumer places = bad idea imo"

you have no idea about how much it actually has been used

[burnt lichen]

Facts

The only components you REALLY shouldn't get used are PSU's and Drives.

[loud estuary]

Open box direct from Amazon or b-stock/refurb from manufacturers are safer bets for them. Idk how many drive manufacturers do refurbs tho

[glad oxide]

my PSU is definitely

used

[prime bramble]

How do you know if an ssd has dram on pcpp

Is it the cache option?

[outer bane]

yes

no listed cache and its a mystery

so you might need to dig a little deeper if you find one you like and the cache is blank

doesnt mean it doesnt have dram just that pcpp doesnt know

[prime bramble]

Ok

Do you know the cheapest m.2 boot drive

That has dram of course

[heady raven]

mp34/sn750/sx8200 pro are the regular ones we suggest

[jaunty epoch]

My pcie 4.0 ssd keeps dying in the 4.0 slot. Seems to be working fine in the 3.0 slot for some reason.

Any suggestions as to why?

I've got the XPG Gammix s50 lite 1tb

[minor sun]

dying..?

[jaunty epoch]

Yeah like straight up stops responding and when I reboot it's not detected at all.

[minor sun]

what mobo

[jaunty epoch]

Asus ROG b550 F gaming

Running with Ryzen 5600x

[minor sun]

hm not bandwidth sharing it seems

@jaunty epoch think it could be windows being screwy? and is it not being detected in bios or not being detected in window?

[jaunty epoch]

Not detected in Bios.

It's my boot drive.

[minor sun]

oh interesting

[jaunty epoch]

Yeah.. Been scratching my head over it too since it's working fine in the other slot.

[minor sun]

Tried updating bios yet?

[jaunty epoch]

Yeah. I'm running the latest bios. Although I used bios flashback. Think its worth reinstalling it?

It's a fresh build.

[minor sun]

Make sure you are running the update with AGESA 1.1.0

don't want funky stuff on 1.0.8 that wasn't made for zen 3

[jaunty epoch]

Worth a try. Thanks for the advice!

[minor sun]

But I honestly don't really know what's causing the issue

Just running through possible fixes

[plush willow]

best ssd?

for not too expensive

[minor sun]

MP34

[plush willow]

okay thanks

what about crucial?

[minor sun]

SN750 doesn't fit criteria 2

[plush willow]

lmao

crucial p1 isnt good?

[minor sun]

P1?

it's less good

[plush willow]

oh okay

[white geyser]

Question: Right now I have 2 NVMEs in RAID but moving to a new mobo (not boot drive). Will the data on them now remain once i enable raid on the new motherboard?

[red jay]

I'm having an issue with one of my nvme ssd's. One of them won't stay all the way down and it's sending a fault code thru my desktop when it tries to boot up

[livid meteor]

wats teh best 1tb nvme ssd?

gen 4 m.2 if possible

[loud estuary]

Why'd you want/need a gen 4? What's your use case and what specs do you have? Budget?

[tawny path]

need help installing my m.2 any 1

[keen quail]

what the problem @tawny path

its like the easiest part in pc building

[teal spade]

How can you raid 2 hdds

Will they work slower or faster

How do you do it

@loud estuary

[teal spade]

???

[red jay]

@teal spade should be in bios

SHOULD

I never setup a raid for hdd or ssd

@livid meteor Seagate firecuda 512 nvme ssd has one of the fastest speeds

[loud estuary]

They'll work faster in most raid configs. Maybe look at the techquickie video on that to learn about the types :)

[white geyser]

RAID is enabled usually in the motherboard BIOS, most common is RAID0 which is basically taking 2x HDD and combining them into one (i.e. 2x 1TB drives into one 2TB drive). RAID1 is an exact copy of the data so if you have 2x HDD, if one fails, the other takes over, but you only have the capacity of one drive still

Usually requires having one or multiples of the same drive

[livid meteor]

Why'd you want/need a gen 4? What's your use case and what specs do you have? Budget?
@loud estuary my mob supports gen 4 but nvm I saw prices of it

[celest pawn]

Need help finding an adapter for a apple air book ssd. 128gb sdnep 655-1837c. it's a 12+16 pin configuration. i need to access it via a regular sata connection or via usb connection to recover data.

[burnt lichen]

RAID is enabled usually in the motherboard BIOS, most common is RAID0 which is basically taking 2x HDD and combining them into one (i.e. 2x 1TB drives into one 2TB drive). RAID1 is an exact copy of the data so if you have 2x HDD, if one fails, the other takes over, but you only have the capacity of one drive still
@white geyser raid 0 is actually using x2 1tb drives and making them into a faster 1tb drive

Also this hdd of mine isn't working and makes alot of clicking noises

I think its busted

[white geyser]

"A RAID 0 setup can be created with disks of differing sizes, but the storage space added to the array by each disk is limited to the size of the smallest disk. For example, if a 120 GB disk is striped together with a 320 GB disk, the size of the array will be 120 GB × 2 = 240 GB. However, some RAID implementations allow the remaining 200 GB to be used for other purposes."

[white geyser]

I have 2x 1TB NVMEs in RAID0 as a 2TB disk right now

[burnt lichen]

Hmmmm? Really

[small steppe]

CrackheadMcQueen#5685 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[burnt lichen]

Oops

I didnt know we couldn't curse here

I can't trust my fricking manual?

Frick works

Okay den

My hdd is busted I think

[livid meteor]

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/JLdxFT,Zxw7YJ,QQrmP6,N7zkcf/

of those which one?

[left tendon]

Sabrent rocket gen 4 or 970 evo plus for OS drive?

[minor sun]

One drive is gen 4, one is gen 3, should be an easy choice if you're on AMD

[left tendon]

I’m not, that’s the burn.

Pcie3 only

[minor sun]

Then you can't gain anything from the gen 4 drive

Whichever is cheaper

[left tendon]

Fair enough

[tall tusk]

i got a new hard drive and macrium reflect and i completely forgot how to format a hard drive help pls

[heady raven]

@tall tusk is it a drive you just want to use for storage?

[tall tusk]

yes

finally got it

[heady raven]

disk management lets you do that much easier

Macrium Reflect is used for cloning

@tall tusk

[tall tusk]

oh i didnt know that

how do i do it i am computer inept

not really just never done it before

[heady raven]

right click your start button

select disk management

[tall tusk]

i opened disk managment

[heady raven]

scroll down the list

you should have a "black" drive

[tall tusk]

i do

i assume thats the new one

[heady raven]

picture please :)

winkey+shift+s

drag around what you want to share

press ctrl+v here

[tall tusk]

oh thats cool

[heady raven]

just right click the area below the black line

[tall tusk]

ok

[heady raven]

format

[tall tusk]

i do not have a format option

i have 5 new voulme options, properties, and help

[heady raven]

sorry,

new volume

[tall tusk]

does it matter which one?

theres simple

[heady raven]

simple

[tall tusk]

ok i did it

[heady raven]

when you get the choice, GPT is what you want to select

[tall tusk]

on this?

i dont have GPT as an option

just NTFS and exFAT

[heady raven]

aye aye, for that one, just put in whatever name you want where it say "New Volume"

and then just press next

[tall tusk]

okay after that it goes straight to install

[heady raven]

hm?

[tall tusk]

i have three pages ill post them

and the other one i posted

[heady raven]

aye aye

just press next

[tall tusk]

ok then i got this

[heady raven]

aye

press finish

[tall tusk]

ko

ok its availible on file explorer thanks naed

[heady raven]

you are very welcome @tall tusk

[minor sun]

@red jay we are not you, we have no idea what you want to fill your storage with.

[livid meteor]

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/JLdxFT,Zxw7YJ,QQrmP6,N7zkcf/ which one since no one answered

[outer bane]

N750 is great for the price the 970 evo plus is slightly faster for $10 more

[minor sun]

SN750*

[left tendon]

Amazon is showing a 7.49 coupon for 970 evo plus rn (at least for me)

Brings it down to 142.49

[left tendon]

@livid meteor Here's another perspective https://youtu.be/GlGjd1GZWdo