Runtime Fee Removed

[vestal stag]

https://unity.com/blog/unity-is-canceling-the-runtime-fee

[frail pike]

and they also made it so you must buy unity pro after earning 200k (previously 100k) if i read correctly?

[mental falcon]

Unity Pro will be required for customers with more than $200,000 USD of total annual revenue and funding. We are increasing this revenue limit from $100,000 USD when Unity 6 releases later this year.

[chilly abyss]

yay!

[low moth]

that was going to be the case with Unity 6 anyway

[midnight garnet]

The Made with Unity splash screen will become optional for Unity Personal games made with Unity 6 when it launches later this year. 🤔

you have to use unity 6?

[low moth]

Yes

[midnight garnet]

so this wont do anything for people on different versions?

seems a bit iffy

[low moth]

how could it?

It was obviously a way to entice people to Unity 6 and the new ToS with the runtime fee.
AND they don't want to do any of the dev required to add it to older versions.

[clear jungle]

Now they just need to walk back the new Industry Pricing changes that assess our revenue based on our clients

I'm not paying 5K/yr/dev just because we've built AR for some museum in the past.

[midnight garnet]

i mean the dev time to add it to other versions is arbitrary since they already know how to add it to the personal license/pro license

[vagrant barn]

I found this pretty ridiculous after hearing the story about the dev that had their revenue estimates go up exponentially after they advertised they did a small project for a massive company in Unity.

If anything, it discourages developers from showcasing that their Unity projects are used by big companies.

[clear jungle]

Yeah it's anti-small business. It doesn't really make sense. It resulted in a lot of local XR studios abandoning unity.

Mind you they were also competing with us locally for contracts when they rolled it out, so studios here were hostile to them to begin with.

[sage relic]

Yeah 🔥🔥🔥

[clear jungle]

Anyway, glad this got rolled back. Doesn't change anything for us, but hopefully stops the controversy 🙂

[sage relic]

Love unity

[low moth]

and is deemed not worth it.

2019 and earlier don't get updates.
2021 will be leaving support soon-ish.
2022 still has a year+ of support left -> the only version where it makes sense to add this to.
2023 isn't LTS, Unity 6 is the renamed 2023 LTS, so once 6 is released 2023 doesn't have any support.

This still takes dev time, and test time.. which is money.

[vagrant barn]

It's a step in the right direction at least, it's nice to see the new decisions by execs have been good so far. Hopefully the trend continues.

[tulip shuttle]

now they just need to revert the god awful new forums

[mental falcon]

There will be no Runtime Fee associated with games created with any version of Unity, including Unity 6 when it releases later this year.

[frail pike]

what about the ability to remove the splash screen for free? will any previous versions also get this ability?

[low moth]

he's talking specifically about the splash screen being removable in 6.

[stoic elbow]

yes

[clear jungle]

It's not surprising it's yanked though. Any studio big enough to pay that fee could afford to switch engines or create their own. It was a dumb greedy idea to undermine their top customers to begin with.

[mental falcon]

@frail pike @low moth @midnight garnet Just for Unity 6, regarding the splash screen.

[low moth]

I know..
😄

[midnight garnet]

im not talking about adding it to every version of unity, of course that would take forever. im saying add it directly to the personal license and if they wanted people to use unity 6, how about fixing the bugs

still my point stands

[low moth]

wot

im saying add it directly to the personal license

[midnight garnet]

yes, they did it with the pro license

[low moth]

the editor requires an update for that change.

[midnight garnet]

that requires an editor update?

why would that need an editor update

[chrome verge]

It was still considerably lower then Unreal though.

[low moth]

because the editor code will check license , if (personal) { lockSplas; }

[chrome verge]

That could be a minor update ?

[midnight garnet]

a very minor update

[vagrant barn]

Well backporting a "minor update" to dozens upon dozens of editor versions isn't so great

[low moth]

.. which is still a new build..

[fallen wharf]

My hope now is that they are gonna fix those issues starting with Unity 6

[chrome verge]

Yeh, what is the issue ? THey are doing it almost every 2weeks

[clear jungle]

It definitely is in some cases (if revenue is high enough)

[low moth]

☝️

[clear jungle]

Once you add the pro fees into that equation though it isn't as simple

[chrome verge]

Obviously, we were talking about the "top" player.

Studio with the capacity to create their engine or use an underdevelopped one.

[clear jungle]

Yeah, personally I didn't have an issue with the runtime fee anyway. We cut our licenses because of industry. So this wasn't really a big deal to me.

I wonder total cost wise how much this decision cost (labour, customer loss, loss of trust with big vendors, etc).

I suspect they canceled it just because it's unprofitable to pursue at this point

Plus this way they can keep people working on muse updates instead of revenue counting tooling 😉 😉

[chrome verge]

Or they had a different strategic focus. At the end, they need the money, hence they are increasing the seat cost.

[midnight garnet]

most of those versions are great and many people still use them, and even if they dont get updates why could they not just update them the final time with all the good stuff and keep it as such?

[low moth]

What is a shame is that the Plus level license hasn't been brought back

[midnight garnet]

multiple versions would be good for unity anyway, because it makes people make more games with a version they are already familiar with

[clear jungle]

Oh yeah, I've been warned of what's planned for their upcoming industry and enterprise fees too. But I get it, it takes cash, and somehow all their revenue sources aren't generating enough.

[frail pike]

they are still making 2022 LTS versions anyways, backporting this there should be easy @mental falcon what do you think? users would appreciate this a lot

[chrome verge]

What is the issue to upgrade to Unity 6 ?

They are obviously doing it to make as much as possible jump there

[frail pike]

breaking things potentially

[chrome verge]

If you are in production, it is a near non-issue.

[midnight garnet]

a lot of things are broken with unity 6, just ask navarone 😂

[vagrant barn]

Yeah, I see the appeal of backporting the splash screen, in-progress projects will be a potential pain when going to Unity 6

[chrome verge]

If your game is already released, then I dont see why you would remove the splashscreen at that point

[frail pike]

what about the solo indie devs? its gonna be hard for them to upgrade and track down every single bug that might come from it

[midnight garnet]

no one wants to see a splash screen.

[vagrant barn]

I don't think many people care about the splash screen to be fair.

Players, that is.

[chrome verge]

It is way easier for indie dev to upgrade given that they have less things to support.

[chrome verge]

In your opinion. Most people mostly does not care.

[mental falcon]

What's the question here? Just wanted to clarify. 🤓

[clear jungle]

I think removal of the splash in Unity 6 is generous enough. Right now a lot of companies are avoiding Unity 6 because it means accepting a new license and they just don't see it worth this risk. This change helps avoid that a little bit.

[frail pike]

do a little boolean change for the next 2022 LTS version that removes the license requirement for removing the unity splash screen? so people using 2022 LTS can remove the splash screen too

[clear jungle]

We would actually test Unity 6 now with this clause revoked. If it wasn't for the industry pricing mess that is.

[midnight garnet]

im guessing you didnt see what JohnSmith said about solo devs trying to find all the bugs that would come with upgrading

[chrome verge]

Obviously I did. I'm simply saying that solo indie dev would have less content to have issues with.

[mental falcon]

I can't answer that question myself but I'll highlight this conversation re: splash screen for feedback internally!

[clear jungle]

We've probably moved too many projects away from Unity now anyway, so revoking the industry changes likely wouldn't bring anyone here back anyway. Plus we still compete with unity locally, just under the Gemini brand instead now.

Still, not much else for me to add, except this is long overdue

[floral iron]

Honestly I only want to remove the splash screen to make my own considering how bare bones the customization of it is

[jaunty gate]

yeah i have tended to always remove it, and do the logo parade in a scene so i can control how its done and transitions

[floral iron]

If they made an animator, with the condition of you keeping the logo above a certain size and within the screen, in front of everything it would be nice

[midnight garnet]

less content? you woulld have to import your entire project over to unity 6, which in doing so may cause a ton of bugs

[jaunty gate]

its a terrible deceision to upgrade a whole project just over a splash

[clear jungle]

That's how we do it too, this way we could use videos etc. And do background loading.

[jaunty gate]

seems like a pretty big waste of resources

[midnight garnet]

also there would be more content in unity 6 than in previous versions

[floral iron]

Honestly I don't have anything in the works so I can start with Unity 6, which does have some nice things

Mostly the Input System being there by default

Tho TMPro still needs to be imported...

Why can't it be there fully?

[clear jungle]

Just keep in mind if you do, and it's unstable in some way, you have no downgrade options.

[floral iron]

Version control:

[clear jungle]

It does a terrible job at multilingual projects.

[low moth]

well, you should have it in version control and a clean change list before updating..

[jaunty gate]

just branch for it, if it goes bad revert back to your non upgrade branch and nuke the library folder

[clear jungle]

So you are going to use version control to fix a Unity 6 bug while being locked to Unity 6?

[floral iron]

No but I typically just trust the LTS. Not gonna do anything serious with it until the next LTS

Maybe small stuff

[low moth]

Which is Unity 6 (renamed 2023 LTS).

Beyond that, we don't know what the situation will be

[clear jungle]

If you are going to use it for a unity project, splash test all your critical features and make sure they work.

[formal willow]

Based

[clear jungle]

Build builds and editor. Some mem crashes I've seen only happen in builds.

[cinder orchid]

Unrelated but I think it's funny that Unity now have version format of XXXX

Because of the whole year thing

Like it has to be 6000.2.13 or something now

Not sure if they have their entire internal ecosystem set up to only work with 4 digit numbers but I guess we're doing that now

[jaunty gate]

its not because it only does 4 digits

its because if they made it 6 it would sort to be a smaller version number then 2022

since there is versions like 3.5, 4.6. 5.1 from before the year ones

[cinder orchid]

In retrospect it was an insanely stupid versioning system

It implies that you will consistently be making new releases every year

Which let's be honest isn't the case not for Unity

[violet mortar]

That's what their intentions were

And it worked for a few years, which is why it went so long

[jaunty gate]

alot of subscription based things do it

[cinder orchid]

Seemed to me like this policy instead caused some rushed and unpolished features to be included in a release

Just so they can ship it and report

[violet mortar]

Hence why its stopping with Unity 6

This is common knowledge really

[cinder orchid]

Good riddance honestly

I mean that's just a side effect of going publicly traded

You suddenly need to answer before a bunch of people who probably don't even remember why they bought your shares

[jaunty gate]

in my experience VC funding and IPO's is like just needing gas to drive to the grocery store but being given rocket fuel instead, then having demands to go to the moon when you know nothing about doing that

[clear jungle]

I'm expecting some good memes about this. Something to do with old spice, middle age, and trying to reconnect with an ex.

Edit: ah no, I figured it out. It's the scent of desperation 😄

[cinder orchid]

Imo they could've built a more solid, even if not as profitable business model by offering knowledge and extended asset marketplace services instead of advertisement

But that's just armchair entrepreneurship at this point

[quick ivy]

hello here

[low moth]

the asset store is a tiny drop of their revenue. So small in the IPO it's under "other" and is ~10%

[broken portal]

tho the year system would have been ok if they went like microsoft, their office suite or the visual studio use a year and a normal major.minor.patch system.

but i still think they should just use 6.x.x rather than 6000.3.18f1

[low moth]

they can't

[broken portal]

I really like how they went 2023 -> 6000

[broken portal]

the time will tell, as long as we are getting stable releases I don't care whether it is 6000 or 6

[low moth]

don't need time to tell..

[broken portal]

but I am happy that they finally decided to use Input System by default

[broken portal]

why? is it fixed that unity 6 is Unity 6000?

I know people will look and see 2022 > 6

[low moth]

yes, the reason is because 6 is less than 2023..

[cinder orchid]

Something something 6 is less than 2023

[low moth]

IIRC Windows has a similar thing, because of Win 95/98/2000.. then 10/ 11

[cinder orchid]

Really stupid one as in case of changing it to x.x.x it will be a whole versioning style change so I'm not sure why it matters but I don't know nearly enough about enterprise software development to say

[broken portal]

yeah, its funny tbh, but people are used to it

[cinder orchid]

Like yeah. Not sure what's exactly preventing them from just making it 6

[broken portal]

anyways for some reason I am more excited about Unity Hub update than unity it self

[cinder orchid]

Other than a year of confusion at max, unless as I said their entire sturcture is at this point centered around 4 digit releases

[broken portal]

I don't unity hub to possess my pc and install itself like 6000 times

[cinder orchid]

Which is probably the more likely case

[low moth]

The internal workings of how version conventions work. They are not in isolation to just what you see and use in an single install

[broken portal]

tho there isn't anything saying login requirement?

man this argument is the most apple thing ever

I always have internet when I use Unity Editor, so I don't mind signing in

[low moth]

once every 30 days

[high moon]

So now when I go beyond 200k $ in revenue and funding I just need to get Unity Pro and thats it?

[low moth]

yes

[lethal surge]

Unity is so back(changes would never affect because my game doesnt sell)

[pastel jolt]

A new Emoji for you all

[twilit linden]

To go back on such a huuuge corporate decision it mean they know, realllly know by numbers/data how bad this runtime fee is for them in current userbase and on future estimations.
Aka they saw how many left Unity for other game engines and they saw the projection of how many will be leaving in the next years and it looked very very bad.
That's my take.

[violet mortar]

🫡

[broken portal]

ok it took me sec to realize RTF means runtime fee, I thought it was Rich Text Format

[clear jungle]

Yes, as long as you are only using it for games.

Unless you reach 25m in which case you probably should be looking beyond unity anyway 😄

[small prism]

So, how many bingos? 😅

#archived-pricing-updates-talk message

[gilded basin]

There was a Unity dev on the forum saying only Unity 6 and newer gets to remove the Splash Screen.

[gilded basin]

I think the only thing you missed is the Unreal Engine one. It had a temp boost, but not a more permanent one for commercial projects.

[jaunty gate]

i read it as read the fucking manual

though guess missing the m

[mossy solstice]

Seems to me, the trend is going to go more towards small scale co-op at least. this can utilize the UGS Relay service. and perhaps other UGS services. right now, the pricing is somewhat tolerable. my fear is, they will up the prices on that.

[chrome verge]

They already did ?

200$ increase for pro

Oh you meant the UGS services

[midnight garnet]

#1283805304110186536 message i know

[fallen wharf]

Yup

[fallen wharf]

That's most likely the reason.

[small prism]

I'm also not sure about the other engines. Did they gain some traction?

[fallen wharf]

Side note: there are even more news about Unity next week
https://x.com/willgoldstone/status/1834237019561574501

Will Goldstone (@willgoldstone) on X

Absolutely hyped to speak to you next week about the future of the #Unity engine in our roadmap talk at Unite. There's a lot you're gonna like.

Twitter · Sep 12, 2024, 2:25 PM

Hopefully they are good

[fallen wharf]

Unreal and Godot are the engines that benefited the most with a lot of newcomers last time i checked.
Other engines... not as much.

More info about the removal
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/unity-ceo-matt-bromberg-says-runtime-fee-reversal-is-part-of-bid-to-become-a-fundamentally-different-company-

[shell zephyr]

Unity on track 🔥 🎉

[fallen wharf]

Well, since the topic is still fresh, I want to share some thoughts:
While this doesn't fully recover all the lost trust for the disastrous runtime fee (I've seen lots of comments from other users saying how they are not coming back even with the reversal, and I don't blame them), this is still a step in the right direction. The fact that the CEO is acknowledging the issues that have been plaguing the engine for years and saying them by name instead of relying on corporate nonsense is already a good sign.

Now, as I said, this is just a step, there's still a long way to go. And whether or not they are going to fix the issues that have been mentioned in that interview is yet to be seen.

Honestly, if they want a quick way to regain the trust, the best way would be going private again, so that they wouldn't be pressured to please shareholders and to try to increase growth at any cost, which is what has led to the runtime fee.
As others have said, as long as the company is public and, thus, subject to shareholders, there's still a chance that they will go back to old habits, even with the change of leadership.

[broken portal]

Ohh god no, arch linux theme intesifies

[dapper belfry]

i think thats a fair deal

[near stag]

Th runtime fee not being canceled for non-video game industries is the same thing unreal does right?

[last skiff]

As far as I know the runtime fee is cancelled for everyone. Non-game industries have to purchase Unity Pro, which is a separate thing entirely.

[clear jungle]

Yes, but if any of their clients have over 1m in revenue (I.e. doing an AR thing for a museum or school), you'll need to upgrade to Industry

... although a unity sales rep did warn me they were still considering runtime fees for non game studios. But that was months ago and may change with this.

[near stag]

Quoting from the community message: "Non-gaming Industry customers are not impacted by this modification."

[clear jungle]

Yeah that to me sounds like non-game studios are still likely to get hit with it down the road.

...we’ve made the decision to cancel the Runtime Fee for our games customers, effective immediately. Non-gaming Industry customers are not impacted by this modification.

[near stag]

yeah that is what I understood also. Unreal also has runtime fees for non-gaming industries right?

[clear jungle]

Yup but no 5k/yr/dev subscription fees on top of it iirc

[near stag]

ahh I see

[clear jungle]

So there will be a threshold where one is better than the other I think

But we are part of a startup program where epic waives the fees as an accelerator program, which is nice.

I'm trying to remember I think they did roll out some per dev pricing.

[near stag]

they probably care more about bigger companies when it comes to the fees.

[clear jungle]

Yeah, they do have 2k/yr licensing but only if over 1m revenue for non game companies.

Unity is different as they include the revenue of your clients in their calculation

Anyway I hate it when something needs a calculator

[broken portal]

Now all we have to do is to make apple remove their Runtime Fee known as "Core Technology Fee"

[clear jungle]

... and getting rid of their "you must build using an apple device" requirement would be nice too

[broken portal]

Thats no walled garden, thats a prison

[clear jungle]

In a long way, it's all one walled garden.

Paying unity to make games, paying Google, steam and apple to sell games on their platform, buying their hardware to test your games, paying them again a percentage for distribution, and paying them another percentage for a part of your ad revenue and inapp purchases, and paying ongoing cloud services for supporting your game back to them and unity... just to turn around and pay them for ads to increase your revenue on their platform. Finally with the government collecting tax on each of those sales and taxing your revenue just to grant incentives back to these companies. All so you can earn enough to pay some bills, maybe staff if you are lucky, and start it all over again. Maybe saving some money by buying assets, which means giving unity another cut of that purchase, and more tax to the government. And so the cycle continues, creating the illusion of being outside of a walled garden.

Sounds grim when I think about it out loud. Maybe best not to think about it.

[broken portal]

who let bro cook

why don't we just be happy that Unity RTF has been removed and the new CEO is saying he wants to fix and polish the engine

[small prism]

Well, that’s just how society and the division of labor function. :D

[solemn harness]

This wasn't an issue in the first place... ppl who don't even use Unity made it a popular hyped-up thing. Glad to see it removed from the roots now.

[cinder orchid]

Once you start thinking about taxation in general it gets really fun

[floral iron]

UNITY. GIVE ME CORECLR AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[broken portal]

agreed

[last skiff]

No it means they were never subject to it in the first place so this announcement doesn't affect them

Reading that as "we're planning a runtime fee in the future for non gaming customers" is a bit odd

[broken portal]

"Everytime a user watches your creation we will charge you for that....What are you ask? How we will know that someone saw your creation?...For that we have a proprietary technology (don't tell them that we are collaborating with the FBI and we will watch every singe human being on earth everytime....shhhhhhh).

[last skiff]

Evidence of them saying this or applying a runtime fee to non-gaming customers?

[fallen wharf]

To be fair...
It took them exactly one year to fully remove it, and during that time devs were moving on to other engines, thinking Unity was going to stick to the fee.
And while yes, the CEO said that he wants to fix the engine, at this point people will only believe it when they see the results rather that just seeing the promises.

At least the CEO has no record of him saying something like "we should charge players for reloading", or calling devs "fucking idiots" 😆

[fallen wharf]

I was answering to that, forgot to ping 😅

[broken portal]

This is meant to be a joke. A hypothetical situation if Runtime fee would have applied to non-gaming customers and I have taken animators and 3d artists as a example.

[broken portal]

Yeah, but to be fair, there are 3 changes which have happened that are good,

1. URP being the default render pipeline (so I believe they will focus on it more, and also is the built-in going deprecated now?)
2. Removal of splash screen
3. Input system being enabled by default

And I suppose they will push UI toolkit more as its full version is also set to be released along side unity 6 stable (I am not sure), I haven't used DOTS at all so I can't say anything on that. Tho these small changes are not sufficient to gain 100% trust but its a good small step, they just have to keep taking these steps and not stop

Also make speed tree free for atleast Unity only lmao

I think the current ceo said that they will try to incorporate the tech they have bought in last couple of years for the good of game dev community (I read that on an article provided in this thread), so lets see what Unite has to offer this year

[frail pike]

i really hope ui toolkit wont replace the current ui system 😩

[gilded basin]

Seeing how they have a new forum post showing off an update to the editor using UI Toolkit they are 100% pushing it more.

They showed off several updates for simple right click context menus with filtering options, a new customizable editor layout where you can drag and drop a lot of the editor elements and place them anywhere, this also was built on a new tool system that lets you add new UI to the buttons by the enter play mode button group.

They also announced yesterday new set of demos. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say the new example to make different types of Minimaps is awesome. The minimap system they showed off yesterday has a built in Map Marker example, minimap zoom, world space location hud, and a lot more. Link in message after this just in case the server bot blocks the Unity forum post links.

Edit: Yep Unity blocks links to their own website from their own Discord.

[mossy solstice]

that doesn't sound correct. perhaps link it as a code block so this can be verified

[small drum]

[twilit linden]

I have seen the direction of moving the editor to the UI Toolkit, but there were small iteration over the years. They still had to keep compatibility with IMGUI tools.
Is it posible that Unity 6 editor is 100% on UI Toolkit with suport for IMGUI and not the other way arround (like the prev versions) ?
It's a looot of work because as I see it UI Toolkit is meant to be a full toolkit solution like WPF or MAUI, not just Canvas, CanvasElements and RectTransform.

[ripe storm]

Unity 6 is already out, presumably you mean Unity 7?
More and more editor things are moving to UITK, and more and more runtime support is being added. A total transition isn't happening in 6

[ripe storm]

Also we don't block links except to other Discords, so I imagine something else has stopped your message

[fallen wharf]

Late reply, but yeah, those changes also show that there is at least some commitment to the goal of improving the engine, especially the splash screen (i still want them to get rid of the current pipeline workflow and replace it with something better, like a modular one).
As for UI Toolkit, i'd be surprised if they manage to complete and polish it soon; if not, then maybe it will be ready for Unity 7.
As for DOTS, supposedly it's now stable, but this could be their chance to make it even more stable and ready for bigger projects (i'm still waiting for the migration to CoreCLR, but i can tell that it's gonna take a while. I'd surprised if they release it for a future 6.X release).
They need to not only keep up with the good step, but also being consistent and, most importantly, being fully transparent regarding the future of Unity and what can we expect and when.

[fallen wharf]

That would be a nice bonus, actually 😁 (and since we are on the topic, if you are reading it, Unity Staff, please fix the terrain system, it's a pain to work with compared to others like Unreal).

[fallen wharf]

Good thing that we'll only have to wait a week to see more info

[fallen wharf]

I'm refering to the Keynote

[fallen wharf]

The fact that the old C suite is also gone (along with the Ironsource cofounders) gives some hope that this will be indeed the case.
https://x.com/fiets38/status/1834304007218557150

Yannic 🌻🍉 (@fiets38) on X

Unity's ENTIRE executive suite has apparently been replaced over the past year??

Twitter · Sep 12, 2024, 6:52 PM

[gilded basin]

I tried to just send the link alone and nothing else in the message.

[broken portal]

I have updated my asset to Unity6 and its working perfectly I have custom editor window which is made using IMGUI. but I will upgrade it to UITK, just to be safer and I have heard its easier and more customisable.

[broken portal]

I think they will release/improve both UITK and CoreCLR

[broken portal]

hell yeah, Terrain system needs to be updated and released along side the Unity 6, It is a big pain.

[ripe storm]

They are building a new worldbuilding solution based on DOTS

It's not happening in Unity 6. 6 is in preview, it's had all the major features it's going to get

[broken portal]

maybe with Unity 6.x, or then surely with Unity 7

[ripe storm]

What do you mean 6.x? There is no .x

And any speculation about 7 will hopefully get more solid after Unite, which is next week

[broken portal]

by 6.x I meant there will be any release called 6000.4.xf1 then 6000.5.xf1?

[ripe storm]

That's not a thing

[broken portal]

so we will only get 6000.3.xxf1 till Untiy 7?

[ripe storm]

Unity 6 Preview is the same as the tech stream

Unity 6 is the same as the LTS

There's no .1, .2, .3 etc

[broken portal]

so basically Unity changed the version system, not reverted back to the old Unity 5 era ones

[ripe storm]

Yep

[broken portal]

as in Unity 5 we had 5.x.x releases

[broken portal]

thanks for clarifying that

I always thought they reverted back, but it is a entirely different system of version altogether

[unkempt granite]

I feel like revenue of your clients shouldn't be Unitys concern. (I'm not sure if this is a common industry practice in some industries?)

If I make a game for a homeless guy for $1 or google for $1, shouldn't make a difference $1 is $1.

It's good they removed the runtime fee after public backlash/economic repercussions.

But the fact they did it at all, and did it in such a slimy way it's like they poured something gross all over your car, then washed you car... cool my car isn't gross anymore but still doesn't fix trust issues. Need to do something good, not just stop doing the bad thing.

Especially if they still have some sus rules around tracking rev of client, which is akin to having rules around tracking webgl plays/downloads/runtime. In their wanting to track and profit of things beyond companies rev/seats.

[frail pike]

this implies a total transition to UITK will happen in a future version of unity. are they really forcing us to learn that? i can see it only being justified if UITK's performance is way better than old UI

am i gonna have to take web development courses to upgrade to unity 7?

[gilded basin]

This is for those having the conversation about UITK and worrying about converting over from IMGUI.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet so dropping this information just in case it helps anyone, but Unity has a UI Element called IMGUIContainer that has been around for a couple years now.

You can pass in a method that acts as the initial call to IMGUI based code in it.
With this you can still use your IMGUI code inside of the UI Toolkit while still applying styles and using the UI Toolkit's event callback system on the IMGUI Container itself.
The method passed in and any method called in from that passed in method can still use the old IMGUI Event system for checking stuff like UnityEvent.current.type.

The method passed in acts like a function container that allows UI Toolkit elements to use OnGUI rendering and event handling pretty much.

private void InitIMGUIContainer()
{
    _IMGUIContainer = new(OnIMGUIDraw);
    _IMGUIContainer.style.position = Position.Absolute;
    _IMGUIContainer.StretchToParentSize();
    _IMGUIContainer.RegisterCallback<MouseDownEvent>(OnMouseDownUI, TrickleDown.TrickleDown);
    _IMGUIContainer.AddManipulator(_zoomManipulator);
    _IMGUIContainer.cullingEnabled = true;
    TexturePreviewFrame.Add(_IMGUIContainer);
}

[frail pike]

interesting, is ui toolkit performance also way better than old ui? because apparently the old ui keeps recalculating the entire ui every frame when a single image moves for example

[vestal stag]

If you mean ugui (and not imgui), it recalculates a canvas' contents when a child changes, but you can easily manage this by splitting your stuff into child canvases so it only updates that one canvas, and not the ones above it. Otherwise imgui (the old one) recalculates every OnGUI call (which can fire multiple times a frame).

[frail pike]

yeah i mean the current ui, im wondering if ui toolkit runs better, otherwise whats the point of learning web development for it?

[clear jungle]

Sorry, I realize some of the context is in another discussion. A few of us in industry have been told that's the plan from the sales team. I'd be surprised if it was the same though, most industry clients have small end user counts imo.

Not saying they are right (employees can be misinformed) or the plan didn't change. But the inclusion of the wording is interesting in that context.

[clear jungle]

Yeah exactly.

[gilded basin]

To be honest I haven't used the runtime UI in Unity 6 just yet, so can't give an accurate statement on performance yet.
With Unity's release of a UI Toolkit Minimap community project for runtime games two days ago I am planning on checking out the Minimap systems this weekend. If you want I can ping you in the UI chat in this Discord with the results when I finish testing it out.

I know the UI Toolkit has recently had a lot of performance updates just in the last three weeks though.
This is comes from a few different areas of changes, but the most noticeable ones people probably wondered about are the following performance changes.

1. There was some memory leaks happening in multi column controls that was causing issues. This is fixed as of Unity 6 preview 17.
2. ListView was refreshing in some cases that didn't need to causing a complete rerun of logic. This is fixed in Unity 6 preview 18.
3. They created a cache of duplicated recorded objects allowing a much faster set of operations in several areas. This was lasts weeks update
   Note on the last one. This was an issue in the Undo System that multiple pieces of Unity was using. So this performance fixed improved more areas not just the UI Toolkit.

For a bigger conversation we might want to take this to the UI Toolkit chat instead of continuing it here in this sub thread that way we don't block other people's conversations.

[frail pike]

alright, just ping me with the results in the ui chat after you test it 👍

[gilded basin]

Sounds good. I will probably have some stuff tomorrow. Got to finish my community Sprite Editor tool update....took on the task of integrating animation clips and multi sprite selection as a community project to put on GitHub.

Is there any version of Unity you want me to test performance changes against to see if they are truly better or worse.
Also which Render Pipeline do you want tested against. Rendering got a complete overhual thanks to Render Graphs in Unity 6 so some performance stuff during runtime comes from that major change.

[frail pike]

the render pipeline affects ui as well? i didnt know that. URP would be best then imo since built in is getting slowly removed. and unity 2022 LTS i guess since thats the latest lts release and most stable

[gilded basin]

Pinging and Responding to your comment in the UI-Toolkit chat in a second. Grabbing a screen shot from the profiler to help add context.

Alright dropped the start of the new conversation in the UI thread. Mentioning it here just in case you don't get a ping from Discord.

[ripe storm]

It unifies all of the UI, Editor and Runtime under one solution, means there's only one solution to maintain, and the solution doesn't suck like UGUI.
So yeah, I'd learn it lol. ImguiContainer will likely also go the way of the dodo, it's only a useful holdover to port legacy IMGUI content under UITK. There's no reason to move to using IMGUI

[jaunty gate]

have only used UITK for editor tooling sofar, but its totally fit for purpose and fine

[unkempt granite]

To quote the op link: we - cancel the Runtime - Non-gaming Industry customers are not impacted by this modification.
There is a runtime fee, they make modifications to the contracts to cancel the runtime fee, state that non-gaming customers are not effected by this modification.

It all rides on if non-gaming industry customers had runtime fees and Unitys unclear messaging throughout the entire process of Runtime fees makes it hard to know if any non-gaming applications ever had runtime fees.
But unless you know all non-gaming applications specifically didn't it's understandable why you would assume they could.

Do you have proof that no non-gaming industry customers had runtime fees? Best information I could find is;

Quote from Unity:
How are non-gaming applications impacted by the Unity Runtime Fee?
The Unity Runtime fee does not apply to our film, gambling, or education subscription plans at this time.

What if a Non-gaming application/industry customer isn't in film, gambling, or education?
What if a Non-gaming application is made by a Gaming industry customer?
What if a Gaming application is made by a non-gaming industry customer?
What if "at this time" changed and those 3 industry's eventually got runtime fees?

Was there 0 situations where non-gaming application/industry customer got runtime fees? Idk.

I have the quote archived, because unity seemed to have removed all information about runtime fees from there website and redirected links to op post, making it hard to keep accurate historical data of what they did and tried to do, and at the time was frustrating to see Unity trying to rinse Game Devs the people that made Unity what is it, while letting gambling applications get off free.

[ripe storm]

Man, it's not a conspiracy, it just never applied to industry.

[tacit mason]

So, this is news to me, happy to see!

Although I was under the impression the runtime thing was only optional... I guess no one was choosing the option so they just yeeted it outright

I should get back into game dev soon...

[low moth]

No one COULD choose the option ... it was only coming into affect with Unity 6.

[violet mortar]

@gentle pond Your post has nothing to do with this thread topic. Also you've been told to use a translator, because your gibberish is impossible to understand and is basically spam at this point.

[gentle pond]

it was a re post, about Version nameing and sorting 2023 higher than 6

[violet mortar]

Hence why you need to use a translator, because it was nonsense at best.

[sharp remnant]

And lose most of their mac sales in the enterprise world? Not happening.