#I would definitely not recommend telling

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

vast mica
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Any specific reason why you wouldn't recommend a beginner to ask AI to explain some code? It actually does this really well.
It's also something completely different from having AI generate code for you (which it often does not do that well)

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I really wish this AI witchhunt here would stop ... AI tools are great if used properly, especially for beginners imo

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Also, AI is gonna explain that whole code in detail and you can ask follow up questions. No one in here is going to do that

reef knoll
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AI chat tools are a storytelling engine. They will be happy to compromise the accuracy and truth-fullness of what they say if it believes it will create a "better" answer.

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Not in the mood for another AI debate, but it's far too prone to hallucinations to make the end-user "think" they're getting the correct information when in reality the finer details (which MATTER) are completely made up.

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An expert can see through the hallucinations and verify/validate the inaccuracies, but a beginner is almost DEFINITELY not going to do that.

vast mica
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I've been using Chat GPT for 9 months to work on my game and it has NEVER actually made anything up ...
Yes, it generates wrong code and sometimes misses details, but nothing major

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In my (admittedly meagre) testing, it has created far too many hallucinations for me to use it comfortably. So we can agree to disagree.

outer nova
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stop recommending the immoral racist statistical average machine to others

vast mica
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sure 😐

reef knoll
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This is called making things up 😄

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vast mica
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Yeah which is why you don't recommend people to blindly copy/paste code it generates

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It doesn't really do that when explaining code you provide though

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W/E I truely believe Chat GPT should be the first place ppl go to ask questions

Telling ppl not to use AI is like telling them not to use Google

There's tons of wrong/outdated code advice you find through Google as well
No one has anything against that ...

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I really don't understand this witch hunt

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I think equating an LLM to answers verified by humans is reaching a bit..

reef knoll
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comparing people who program vs. robots who parse data 🤔

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If you were seriously equating ChatGPT to a "human" equivalent. Using ChatGPT would be the equivalent of finding a 0 view SO answer with no replies and 0 upvotes and taking it as gospel.

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In reality, google would never push that as a result.

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Or very rarely does.

vast mica
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Try copy pasting that code in Google and see if it provides any help with it lol

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If you are confused by a snippet of code, a lookup will usually garner results if any documentation exists for it whatsoever.

outer nova
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They are completely different! One's content that can be updated, often in forums with real people, provided in places that include context.
The other is an algorithm based the statistical average of information stolen from society, that takes an inordinate amount of energy to set up and run, that's often paid, presented without any context or clues, peddled and floated by billionaires

vast mica
# outer nova They are completely different! One's content that can be updated, often in forum...

But you're not talking about what I'm talking here.
I'm not saying AI is good or bad or what the consequences are.

I'm saying Chat GPT specifically, which is free, can solve probably 90% of questions asked in code-beginner, accurately and correct while explaining it MUCH better and clearer than anyone in the channel would

So why would you put so much effort into stopping ppl from using it?

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Except it's not always accurate nor correct and nobody is verifying it.

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And then when they run into issues, they come here with the preconception it IS accurate and correct.

vast mica
reef knoll
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I'm saying Chat GPT specifically, which is free, can solve probably 90% of questions asked in code-beginner, accurately and correct while explaining it MUCH better and clearer than anyone in the channel would
Because a majority of people disagree 😭

outer nova
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Because you're both wrong in stating that, and I don't let people make recommendations that ignore the rest of the context

crisp breach
# vast mica W/E I truely believe Chat GPT should be the first place ppl go to ask questions ...

with all honesty, i dont think you're in a position to say this considering you really arent familiar with some very basic c# or OOP concepts. Once you need something more than "how do i add 2 numbers" then you'll quickly be given randomly generated dogshit that may look ok but just lead people down a complete shit rabbithole that doesnt suit what they need. And beginners really wont know whats wrong

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I would never point someone to a resource that I'd believe is not totally and completely accurate. There exists enough documentation, tutorials, and humans that can help to the point asking AI is just a subpar resource.

outer nova
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I make recommendations to resources specifically designed to help people. And have even made them myself. It took a very very long time to get those resource right, and it is so very easy to lead beginners astray even now. Handing them an AI and going "have at it" isn't ever going to replicate that

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The most I'd go with using AI for is getting creative ideas and workshopping from there. But for the technical details, never.

vast mica
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That's why copilot is widely touted by experienced devs as being useful for boilerplate code and nothing beyond that.

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But learning how to make good boilerplate is important

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So it's why I'd tell beginners to stay well away from it.

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I stay away from AI regardless

vast mica
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copilot is just awesome cuz it makes you have to type less lol

outer nova
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I turned off jetbrains' full line completion because I felt it got in the way more than it helped with the boilerplate, so even then I'd argue it isn't worth it lol

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But beginners in particular should not touch it

vast mica
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wouldn't it make much more sense to encourage begginers to learn how to use it properly?

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Except using it "properly" necessitates having the knowledge to understand the output

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You won't have that as a beginner

crisp breach
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How to use it properly: know when its wrong
So now who is a beginner gonna ask

vast mica
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I'm not sure where I stand on this tbh, I think I'm not a beginner, but certainly no expert either

I guess I'm just good enough to realize when it's bullshitting me so I can come here and ask, not sure how beginners would handle that

reef knoll
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That's under the assumption you can recognize every time it's bullshitting you, which given the fact your trying to understand something isn't that realistic to rely on

vast mica
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but that's where using it properly comes in
you never believe what it tells you, you double check and verify it

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Why not skip the AI step and just check online in the first place?

vast mica
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I kinda get the point though

vast mica
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I'll concede that it can expose you to unknown terminology, but the same can be achieved in forums like this one. It is also a googling skill of sorts, figuring out the terminology by rewording it's function/application.

vast mica
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let's bring this back to where it started.
A beginner came in, posted like 50 lines of code they didn't understand and got from some other person.
If they copy/paste it in Chat GPT, they're most likely getting an accurate description of what each line of that code does, if something doesn't make sense or doesn't work, they can always investigate further

What other option do they have? Research each line of code by themselves? that would take hours ...

reef knoll
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They can learn how do troubleshoot and problem solve

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outer nova
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Check the documentation that exists for any method they're confused about. Research any pattern that is unclear, just go through it without asking a GPU to tell you what the most generic response to a question is?

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And there, you have a verified answer pointing to an official documentation

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With a single google search

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Which also comes with code examples

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On top of having access to official doc

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They get additional resources for similar functionality on Unity's page

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Unity's doc in particular is FANTASTIC.

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It took me <20 seconds from google to all the information I could possibly need

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That I can be 100% certain is accurate and void of hallucinations

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No need to verify the official doc, because it's the official doc.

vast mica
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answers become out-dated
there's plenty of just plain wrong answers that get upvoted as well

outer nova
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If something is wrong on a forum someone can reply, or upvote, or clarify

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Also you'd check the date, the worst part about ChatGPT is that it's information is perpetually outdated.

vast mica
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But I think we've reached the end of this convo 🙂
I understand your concerns a bit better now
I won't recommend AI here anymore

I still believe it's better than Google though

outer nova
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if something is wrong with a generated response it cannot be fixed, it's correct

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it's the most statistically probable response

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it's doing it's job correctly even when it's completely wrong