#archived-dots | Official Unity Discord | Page 98

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 3:34 PM

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maybe they will add some type of T? type or something

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but afaik not possible now, you need to do it the 'old way' with Job structs

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 3:34 PM

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Although wouldn't be very surprised if you could do
Entities.WithAll<Thing>().ForEach((ArchetypeChunk chunk) => {}).Run();
and have it work because Lucas Meijer is a mad wizard

amber flicker Dec 4, 2019, 3:37 PM

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hmm.. is it related to generics? Another way of describing it is wanting .ForEach(in Entity e, in MyComponent m, in MyOptionalComponent op) to run even if MyOptionalComponent might not be present. In a full-fat job I would do this by doing NativeArray<MyOptionalComponent> ops = chunk.GetNativeArray(MyOptionalComponentType); and then if(chunk.Has(MyOptionalComponentType)).. etc

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 3:37 PM

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For cases where I have optional components I usually just define two separate queries, one with the component and one without

amber flicker Dec 4, 2019, 3:37 PM

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yea, me too - but can't do that with a Job lambda atm right?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 3:38 PM

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ForEach(in Entity e, in MyComponent m, in MyOptionalComponent op)
that will just require the MyOptionalComponent to be there

amber flicker Dec 4, 2019, 3:38 PM

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indeed - I want access to it in the ForEach but only if it's present

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and I don't want to incur the cost of CDFE

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 3:39 PM

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What I mean is I'd do:

Entities.WithAll<MyComponent, MyOptionalComponent>().ForEach(...).Run();
Entities.WithAll<MyComponent>().WithNone<MyOptionalComponent>().ForEach(...).Run();```

amber flicker Dec 4, 2019, 3:40 PM

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really trying to avoid that given how ridiculously verbose this job already is..

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 3:43 PM

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So adventures with the new dots netcode so far:

generated code that wont compile
following tutorial references a system/type that doesn't exist (here: https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.netcode@0.0/manual/quickstart.html)
tried sample repo instead, runs at like 30 fps in editor... okey it's in editor
tried to use profiler on standalone build... it wont connect

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... i mean, sigh.

viral sonnet Dec 4, 2019, 3:52 PM

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huh, sorry for that. running on my end with 300fps

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my project, not a sample

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does the ghost codegen not work for you?

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 4:01 PM

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well it does now

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:21 PM

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Is this still the simplest way to use random inside jobs? https://forum.unity.com/threads/mathematics-random-with-in-ijobprocesscomponentdata.598192/#post-4009273

Unity Forum

Mathematics.Random with in IJobProcessComponentData

I am very puzzled on how to use Mathematics.Random in a IJobProcessComponentData system. In the sample code below, I am trying to output a random...

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Seems like there should be a more elegant way

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:24 PM

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I think it is as simple as it's going to get if you want determinism and thread safety

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(and no mutexes)

flat talon Dec 4, 2019, 4:27 PM

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I think that confuses a lot of people still, they're not used to seeing deterministic random 🙂

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:29 PM

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I guess there's no way to do that using the new Entities.WithAll.Foreach in JobComponentSystem?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:30 PM

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NativeArray<Random> rngs = GetRands(); Entities.ForEach((int threadIndex) => {rngs[threadIndex].NextInt()}).Run();

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:31 PM

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Oh, you can just pass in non-local variables into the lambda and that doesn't cause problems?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:31 PM

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(the threadIndex arg has to have a specific name, but the compiler error will tell you what to call it)

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rngs is a local variable

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it has to be in the same scope as the Entities.ForEach() call, otherwise the codegen gets confused

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but otherwise no restrictions afaik

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:33 PM

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But then you can't use the same seeded randoms between jobs right?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:34 PM

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well, you can copy the array, but the other job would get the same random results as the first one

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or if one job depends on another you can just use the same rngs

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:35 PM

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And I'd have to assign the rng back to the original array after the job I guess to maintain it's state

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:36 PM

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(copying the array is a bad idea tbh)

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The thing is, prngs are just very fancy counters. If you look at your code, replace all Random with int, and all NextInt() with ++, does the code still make sense?

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:39 PM

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In this case I guess it would yeah, I'm just doing test stuff

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:39 PM

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(apart of the numbers not being very random obviously)

onyx mist Dec 4, 2019, 4:42 PM

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Im looking at the thread and you'd only need that if you want to keep determinism right? If my system doesn't need that can I just reinitialize the rand every update, pass it into the job, and be done?

dull copper Dec 4, 2019, 4:42 PM

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https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.physics/0.2.5-preview

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 4:44 PM

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@onyx mist sure, you just need to have a source of randomness to reinitialize

onyx mist Dec 4, 2019, 4:45 PM

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I use unityengine.random.range

dull copper Dec 4, 2019, 4:45 PM

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## [Physics 0.2.5-preview] - 2019-12-04

### Upgrade guide

* By default, `PhysicsColliders` that share the same set of inputs and that originate from the same sub-scene should reference the same data at run-time. This change not only reduces memory pressure, but also speeds up conversion. If you were altering `PhysicsCollider` data at run-time, you need to enable the `ForceUnique` setting on the respective `PhysicsColliderAuthoring` component. This setting guarantees the object will always convert into a unique instance.
* Any usages of `BlockStream` should be replaced with the `NativeStream` type from the com.unity.collections package.```

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 4:45 PM

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Each day we crawl slowly toward the 2019.3 release

dull copper Dec 4, 2019, 4:46 PM

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actually... the changelist is quite massive, dunno about spamming it all here :p

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so.... about the new build system

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is there any example or documentation how we should trigger this from command line for automated builds?

flat talon Dec 4, 2019, 4:54 PM

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oh nice, been waiting on the new physics package 🙂

dull copper Dec 4, 2019, 4:55 PM

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yeah me too, will finally continue my physics experiments with it 🙂

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been waiting for the entities update to land and then the physics update as it didn't land at the same time

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physics samples updated here as well as expected: https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/EntityComponentSystemSamples

flat talon Dec 4, 2019, 4:57 PM

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ah sweet, so its probably in pacman already

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yep it is

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https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.physics@0.2/changelog/CHANGELOG.html

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btw regarding the shared colliders, any idea what they mean with "that share the same set of inputs" ? Like the same shape+params? ie meshcolliders pointing to the same mesh, or a box colliders of a certain size?

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 5:33 PM

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anyone who knows how ecs actually works that has a few min to spare? i'm feeling like i'm banging my head against a wall.. and would just like someone to help me outline a simple ai system and component process (so i get an idea where i should start)

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like i don't mean full code, just like.. should i use a regular system? jobs, what components i would probably need, and how to access them

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 5:43 PM

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I have a weird behavior, I can’t explain to myself. I use an exported fbx, nothing special just a sphere at 0,0,0 with size 1,1,1. If I use that sphere as Mesh on a game object that gets converted to an Entity with a RenderMesh. The sphere is exactly rendered at the vector of the Translation component. If I create the entity in code and add a RenderMesh with the same sphere as mesh, it gets not rendered at the vector of the set Translation component, but a different position, which seems to be the Translation vectors direction with a bigger length. The entity also has a Scale component, but the length is not related to the set scale .

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 5:45 PM

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@winter veldt describe what you want the AI system to do

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 5:47 PM

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trying to make it simple... i'd like a chainable task system. just start with a "move to" task, that sets a target, is set active, and upon completion starts another move task. eventually i'd like to have other task types (pickup item, use item, etc) but for now, moving is fine.

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main thing is that i'm thinking i'm just doing things completely backwards or something so i'd like to hear how others would approach it, so i can get a bit more understanding how things work

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 5:52 PM

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rule 1 of the ECS, not everything has to be on the ECS

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the individual tasks is probably a good thing to have as either components, or entities

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but the task system/tree might be a good idea to keep on an OOP mindset, and just connect it to the ecs

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specially now that you can have class components that are normal C# and can point to normal C# stuff

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 5:54 PM

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@vagrant surge you can what now?

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 5:54 PM

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latest ECS release allows components that are Class instead of Struct

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those Class components are "relaxed" compared to the structs

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so you can point to normal C# land stuff

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with some caveats (you cant use Jobs on them)

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 5:56 PM

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so wait. you can create component classes.. can you have methods and stuff in them?

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 5:57 PM

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i dont know if they work with inheritance, likely not

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so virtuals are worthless

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but you can use them to point into an actual C# class that does have methods

untold night Dec 4, 2019, 5:57 PM

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you can basically have C# poco types

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 5:57 PM

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Something similar I do in my project. Warning that this is not designed to be super fast, just easy to work with. I'd have
AiMoveTo {float3 Target}
AiTask { Entity ExecutingActor}
NextAiTask {Entity NextTask}
Active {}

now a MoveTaskSystem would do

{
    bool reachedTarget = DoTheMoving(task.ExecutingActor, moveTo.Target);
    if (reachedTarget){
        EntityManager.Destroy(e);
        EntityManager.AddComponentData(nextTask, new Active());
    }
}

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 5:57 PM

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for something like an AI, i think hte current jobs + ecs tryharding is a bit too much for the "think" part

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for the actual tasks themselves, yeah the ecs is cool (they do have an Update()) every frame

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but stuff like the "AI script" is something that does nothing, maybe an update() once a second, or only on response on events

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for one of my C++ experiments what i was doing is that i had fairly "normal" OOP classes as "brain", that were the AI script, and the actual AI actions were on components

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i also had AI "sensors" on components

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also did the same thing on an unreal project. I had a BehaviorTree script that was the high level logic, and it would set/unset options and stuff on the components that handled frame-to-frame movement, aiming, combat decisions, and sensors like visibility checks

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:05 PM

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@worldly pulsar ok. see this is the issue 😛 i've never seen nor used Entities and WithStructuralChanges().. looking at the documentation, it also has no description as far as what it does.

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:06 PM

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It's new, and I wouldn't exactly recommend using this as is, just as a sketch of concept. You'd probably want an EntityCommandBuffer in there to destroy the current task/set the next thing active etc.

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:07 PM

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@vagrant surge i could see that being the much more sane way of approaching things.

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:08 PM

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And for the DoTheMoving() part I actually do something similar to what vblanco said, where I'd just set a MoveTarget component on the executing actor and then just check if we are at the goal

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:08 PM

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for an "exact" example of how all that stuff worked:
I have a melee enemy. He does a random movement around his spawn point as "wander", and when he sees an enemy, he enters combat mode, and will periodically find a random "combat position" near the target, and move there, while attacking on a timer

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so i had a behavior tree with stuff like Wander, Combat -> MoveToTarget->Attack

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the relevant part was the "combat"

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when an enemy enters combat mode, he will be finding "good positions to attack" naturally. This was done in its "combat component"

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so this combat component would be calculating a score of points in a circle

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but not much else

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:10 PM

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i did a similar thing to you @worldly pulsar i think, except with jobs. (keep in mind this is ALL ECS, i've never thought of combining it with regular code)

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:10 PM

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when the behavior tree tells "yeah pick best and move there", the movement component pathfinds there

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and for the vision, i had a component doing raycast vs played continuously

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so here, everything except behavior tree would be on ECS components. The MoveTo stuff a component, the visibility check a component, the zone calc a component

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and jobbed

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:11 PM

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(I don't actually use this for AI, but for a "sequence of events with each taking some time" kind of thing)

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:13 PM

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yeah

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i had mine (tied to a need, which is tied to the ai) but it had a couple actions, for example, hunger need.. when active.. finds the closest food, then creates a move task, pickup task, and use task.

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:14 PM

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you c an probably implement a full behavior tree as entities linked to each other

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but im not sure if thats much of a good idea

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:15 PM

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hunger tracks progress, (i was trying to avoid adding/removing an active component), when move is complete, it starts pickup, after thats done it starts use.. then hunger is marked as complete

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but i mean that's what? 5 entities per ai? i don't know if thats bad, or good, or what

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Yeah, what I've suggested is pretty much just "execute a series of tasks" (which is what you asked for 😉 )
If you want a full-blown behaviour tree you need a different approach

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:17 PM

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yes thats what i asked for i'm just glad i can actually see a similar approach 😛

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Don't worry about the number of entities. Entities are basically free.

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:18 PM

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dont worry about number

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nvm got out-speeded

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in the unity ECS the cost of entities is literally zero unless they run in a system

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so if you have 1 million entities just sitting there, waiting, thats basically zero cost

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:20 PM

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ok. so i was trying to avoid adding "active" components around, because talking before, people were saying adding/removing components fragments chunks and all that. so i have a lot of systems hitting tasks.. but they are usually just escaping early.

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:21 PM

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keep in mind an important fact on unity-style ecs, accessing components from a "random" entity is quite expensive

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:21 PM

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should i be using a tag at that point? like if i have 3 move entity tasks, should i add active to one, and thus only run that one? or should i have book "active" on the move component, and in the system it checks first thing, and exits?

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:21 PM

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on my implementation of that it is kinda slow

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im doing some fancy memcaching stuff to try to make it faster

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:22 PM

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bool

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:22 PM

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the issue is that it needs to find where in the chunk exactly is that entity

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i do it through a linear search for now 😦

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Unless you are adding/removing the active tag within the same frame you'll probably have a performance win from having the active tasks packed in memory

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 6:22 PM

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so basically, for each of the components inside the archetype, i try to find the component you want to get, and get its offset within the chunk

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 6:25 PM

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If you want to do a more complex data structure like a BT, its much better to do that, in the best way you can - and then attach it to an entity via an BTReferenceComponent or something, instead of trying to make a BT using entities.

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Unit is not building meshes out of entities, they have mesh data they attach to entities - similar idea. Everything shouldn't be an entity.

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:26 PM

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Or you can have a BT in a blob and just store the current state in a component

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 6:31 PM

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One thing I am curious about is will the whole DOTS tech stack change anything with how we approach serialization?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Oh, one more thing I like about the approach I suggested - you can store any task-specific additional data you want on the task you are executing (so in your case that would be e.g. a NavMesh query), without putting everything on the actor. Then you cleanup by just destroying the task entity.

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:37 PM

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yeah that's why i was using separate entities as tasks too. the useful stuff is there, and when it's done, you can remove it

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 6:40 PM

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@gusty comet yes it makes it a lot easier to serialize stuff

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:40 PM

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and i figured since tasks would usually be a few frames (they'd be the animations, delays, move-times, etc) adding, destroying the entities wouldn't be extreme for performance.

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 6:41 PM

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I figured that is the case @trail burrow given that the components themselves are completly stateless

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:41 PM

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that's what i thought, components are all neat little packages you can serialize pretty easy, and with jobs you can multithread it.

trail burrow Dec 4, 2019, 6:41 PM

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yes

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 6:42 PM

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i was actually using jobs to save map chunks before i knew what jobs and ECS were

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 6:58 PM

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I am pondering right now and maybe put this to the test in a week long or so project. Would be it be a good intermediate step to kind of apply the ECS pattern by doing the segregation into structs for the data, very atomized classes that do a single task like systems and using the game objects only for editor stuff? To kind of get used to the pattern without having to commit to it given it seems especially for my usecase which is 2d turn based games, Dots is not there yet.

flat talon Dec 4, 2019, 7:00 PM

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@prime cipher you are probably missing a LocalToWorld component on your manually created entity.

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@gusty comet you can definitely do that. I find ECS patterns are so different than how I usually think it's almost not worth it? I mean learning ECS is hard enough as it is right now, with the lack of documentation and frequent framework changes...

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:12 PM

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For me coming from langauges that are mostly purely procedural or heck even completly just state it would make more sense believe or not

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take inform 7 for example the whole thing is literally just you manipulating state by manipulating relationship between data

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thats why I am so pumped and want to get into it

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I was never really fond of doing things the OOP way

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:14 PM

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if you really want to get into an ECS mindset however, you can use ECS for all your data as is, and gather that data for you GameObjects to use with a system

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 7:14 PM

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@flat talon Actually not, the component is there. One of the differences is, that my entity is a child, but the parents Translation is 0,0,0

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:15 PM

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@winter veldt I admittedly have no clue where to even start in a unity context.

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:16 PM

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@prime cipher can you post what the debugger for both entities looks like?

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 7:16 PM

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My experience is also, that if LocalToWorld is missing, it won’t be rendered at all, but that’s was in an earlier preview

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@safe lintel sure, gimme some mins getting back to my pc

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 7:17 PM

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@gusty comet you can also run Entitas, which is easier to use than unity ECS

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:17 PM

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It would help to just have a concrete example for my usecase that I can poke my way around in. Say a simple 2d sprite box that I can move around with the arrow keys.

vagrant surge Dec 4, 2019, 7:17 PM

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being also an ECS, its mostly the same

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with systems and small components

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:17 PM

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i am not very far ahead of you to be honest 😛 but you can use systems to communicate back and forth between game objects. there may even be an easier way now with the newest version (see above, @vagrant surge was just talking about new possibilities with components being classes instead of structs)

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Yeah I am a pure schmuck cant buy stuff from the asset store

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so entitas is not an option sadly

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:18 PM

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isnt entitas free?

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:19 PM

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nope 80 bucks and chage

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:19 PM

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also did you check out the samples repo?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 7:20 PM

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@gusty comet google it, the asset store version is basically a donation thing, the Github repo is MIT licensed iirc

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:20 PM

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https://github.com/sschmid/Entitas-CSharp

GitHub

sschmid/Entitas-CSharp

Entitas is a super fast Entity Component System (ECS) Framework specifically made for C# and Unity - sschmid/Entitas-CSharp

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:20 PM

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yeah that

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quicker at the draw than me 😛

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i've yet to look at it. but i probably should.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:21 PM

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Why use entitas. If you're just starting out you're better off learning unity's system. It's pretty good right now and it's only going to get better

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:22 PM

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ill be honest, i gave it a short try because unity ecs is frustrating, but learning its own way of doing stuff was confusing 😄

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 7:22 PM

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I have bad memories of Entitas. Their codegen is really annoying to work with in the long run.

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:22 PM

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for starters there's almost zero documentation. no tutorials that you can be sure are current, and this channel is pretty much the only place to get answers 😛

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:23 PM

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Yeah as said all I would need would literally a small sample of my usecase that I can poke at to understand how it works because right now its a black box for me

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:23 PM

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The ECS Samples have pretty good documentation. The cube samples are all very small and easy to digest and mess with and the readmes for each sample have a very clear explanation of what's going on

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:23 PM

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Because I have trouble conceptualizing it

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I understand ECS on its own but I have no idea how it integrates if you will

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:24 PM

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welcome to the club @gusty comet

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:24 PM

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the cube samples do me no good though sark they use their internal conversion magic for 3d stuff

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which is irrelevant to me

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From what I gather I would be the kind of "hybrid" case if you will

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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It's all open source so it's not really fair to describe it as magic, but I know what you mean

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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Look at the spawner conversion sample. It has an authoring component for a fully custom spawner entity, and a system that operates on that.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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Conversion is horribly documented right now

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:25 PM

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yeah those examples are basically for use if you know and are up to date with the current way ECS works. they explain very little. Also they are all pretty much oriented around rendering things, not something like.. ai, or more complex processes

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:26 PM

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i think only the TransformSystem has a good explanation, but using the samples repo should be a good place to start digesting it all

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:26 PM

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I dont need something complex as said. All I want to do is is move a f... sprite around

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:26 PM

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i can rotate the HELL out of entities. but that's not what i want to do.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:27 PM

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Yuuki, from the ECS cube sample do you think you could move the cube around?

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Once you can do that, all you need to do is change the cube to your own mesh (a quad for a sprite) and set your uvs and use the mesh instance renderer component to render it

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:28 PM

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I am not sure to be honest, thats why I said it would be immensly helpful to have a working example to poke at, because from that I could derive how other things work.

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All I want to understand is the expected workflow

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which as of right now is not the case because I have no clue what I am supposed to do in my given use case

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Its a thing I could whip up in 2 minutes doing it the regular unity way

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:30 PM

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you said you're doing 2d right? does ecs conversion even do spriterenderer yet? if not all that conversion code in the examples would just be extra fluff you have to work around anyways

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:30 PM

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Yeah I am doing exclusively 2d stuff

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:30 PM

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using the sprite renderer? or tilemaps?

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:31 PM

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I have no clue yet what I am supposed to use in my use case right now that is my whole issue

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:31 PM

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what is your use case again?

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:31 PM

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2d turn based.

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:31 PM

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I am in the early stages of moving over a roguelike game to unity because f... python

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:32 PM

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There's no 2d renderer for ECS yet. If you want to do sprites in ecs you need to know how to build a mesh from code and how to set up your uvs

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Otherwise just use regular unity and tilemaps until unity makes a 2d renderer

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Thats why I said if there would be a way to do something similar to a MVC with the current ECS implementation I would use that

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aka segregate the data and the render layer

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have the model handled by dots and the view by game objects if you will

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I could use the power of ECS to allow me more complex world state modelling basically

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One pet peeve feature I always wanted to do was for example proper atmospherics

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but that means traversing through thousands of tile instances in some cases

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

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@gusty comet can i DM you? i'm pretty much working towards similar goals.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

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You should be able to model all your positions via entities in ECS then just run a ComponentSystem to map sprites to the entity positions. Seems like it would be a mess though

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

sure you can

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

I'll see if I can make a simple example showing how to convert a Unity Sprite into a rendered entity

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

That would be neat

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

There was a full sprite renderer in ecs linked here for you @gusty comet

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

you mean this forum post right? https://forum.unity.com/threads/200k-dynamic-animated-sprites-at-80fps.695809/

Unity Forum

200k dynamic animated sprites at 80fps

Hi guys, today I finished my sprite sheet system using a custom shader, compute buffers and DrawMeshInstancedIndirect, to FAST render, a lot of object...

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

yup

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

Oh hey it's the thing I worked on

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

I am still going through that because I dont want to use something that I do not understand

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

I wouldn't really say that's a good example to learn from

#

More a proof of concept

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

But yeah I am slowly trugdging through scraps of information on how this thing actually works

#

Also just to clarify, I care so little about the editor end of things since most of the stuff I will do is procedual generation, meaning UI aside the vast majority of what I will be doing will not happen in the editor regardless.

#

I mean I did not have any editor when I was working in python, so there is that.

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

ok made a short example, attach script to a gameobject, plug in a mesh and material for it. when you press space in play, it moves the created entity forward. it doesnt use conversion though i suggest you look into it because its a big part of making your life easier
https://pastebin.com/q5HjTpz8

Pastebin

using Unity.Entities; using Unity.Jobs; using Unity.Rendering; ...

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

I will give this a look immediatly

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:53 PM

#

tbh i found some of the samples kinda hard to understand, like spawn an entity that itself spawns prefabs that are created in conversion... ugh my brain breaks on trying recursive stuff and it reminds me of trying to understand 3d arrays, i agree that it is a little hard to decipher and also understand all the new terminology and different way of thinking

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

I assume since this has translation and rotation in it I have to use the legacy diffuse material as the texture?

#

or was this a 3d object you did move

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

use whatever for material or mesh

#

localtoworld is needed to render the entity with a scale/position/rotation
translation & rotation are optional but make it easier to modify local position/rotation without explicitly changing the localtoworld's 4x4 matrix

stable fog Dec 4, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

       private IEnumerator WaitForJob( JobHandle handle, Action completeAction)
        {
            yield return new WaitUntil( () => handle.IsCompleted );
            
            //This is optional
            handle.Complete();
#if DEBUG
            Debug.Log( "Job completed" );
#endif
            completeAction();
#if DEBUG
            Debug.Log( "Job Action completed" );
#endif
        }

So an acquitance of mine is working on some code for doing some world baking for a mod we are working on for Risk of Rain, and he setup this coroutine to execute a batch of jobs

#

he contends that handle.Complete() isn't necessary, but he put it in here for "good practice"

#

I don't think there is any reason to have it there, and think it might be confusing/misleading

#

is there anything we may not be considering here to clear this up further?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

Complete() is necessary if you have any NativeCollections in that job, to make the safety system happy

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

Yeah I just ran into that too. I was worried the job wasn't actually being run in the background or something but nah, it works the way you expect you just need to explicitly call complete once it's finished

stable fog Dec 4, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

thanks @worldly pulsar @zenith wyvern

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

Okay so I started working on a sprite conversion sample and I was quickly reminded how much of a nightmare it was to get instanced sprites rendering

#

@gusty comet are you comfortable with shaders?

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

@safe lintel Sry for beeing late, kids needed attention: Here is the screeny from the converted entity. The Translation 10,0,10 is from the GameObjects position

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Here the manually / code generated entity. Pls don't mind some additional components, it is right out of a prototype

📎 unknown.png

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

If you want to be able to get per instance rendering using sprites you do it using Graphics.MeshDrawInstanced and DrawMeshInstancedIndirect. If you aren't VERY familiar with those functions and how to use them, that's where you need to start. Forget about ECS altogether, just learn how to use those in normal Unity

#

Once you understand how to use compute buffers to push per instance data to your shader with DrawMeshInstance*, then you can start thinking about rendering sprites in ECS

#

Otherwise just wait for Unity to put out a 2d sprite solution for dots

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

@zenith wyvern I have never used shaders

#

When I wanted to do something equivalent to shaders I normally did effects via code

#

I am old.

#

aka per pixel manipualtion

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

@safe lintel and here out of game tab, to show the placement of the sphere in comparison with the line showing the real translation vector.

#

📎 unknown.png

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

Then my advice is to start learning shaders or just stick with regular Unity tilemaps for now

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

huh?

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

So sphere should be at the end of the one pink line instead of in outer space

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

I have a hard time seeing why Sark. Given I can even right now just load a sprite of some kind in unity and manipulate it and return the result. For what I did it worked just fine.

#

Keep in mind my world is a world where 16x16 is high resolution for a texture

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

@prime cipher could the translation diff be due to something in the parenting process?

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Do you require sprite sheets or animation?

#

Or are all your sprites just static images moving around?

#

There's a universe of difference between those two in terms of the complexity required to render them in ECS is what I've found

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

I dont necessary require them, it would be a nice to have, but not a strict necessity. I wont use the unity internal animation system for sure

#

because it is clunky for what I do

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

@safe lintel The parent has a zero Translation vector. I just add the RenderMesh to the childs and am only manipulating the Translation vectors of the childs afterwards. The diff is constant though, even if I move the entity by applying changes to the Translation, the resulting offset stays the same, a larger Translation vector.

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

Sark think Dwarf fortress with a tileset

#

thats about as visual as I would get

#

or top line would be cogmind

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

I simply don't know, where it should come from. I firsth thought, it might be the application of the scale, but that does not fit.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

Yeah it sounds like you would be using sprite sheets at least then to change sprites. I'm trying to think of how to do that without having to write a custom shader

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

https://store.steampowered.com/app/722730/Cogmind/ for reference that would be the ideal level of fidelity I would aim for

Steam

Cogmind

Experience sci-fi tactical combat and exploration in a procedural world that combines traditional roguelikes with an immersive modern interface like no other. Build yourself from components found or salvaged from other robots. Attach power sources, propulsion units, utilities...

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

519

▶ Play video

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

@safe lintel mmhhh, Translation seems to fit LocalToParent but not LocalToWorld, still no hint, where the diff might come from

stable fog Dec 4, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

Where do I find the good documentation for Jobs?

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

I'm going to see what I can come up with to make something simple that fits the requirements, but it will take a bit

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:17 PM

#

@safe lintel to have full picture, here the parent

#

📎 unknown.png

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:17 PM

#

Any help is appreciated, I know I am probably a huge outlier compared to your average unity dev.

zenith wyvern Dec 4, 2019, 8:17 PM

#

I don't think there is good documentation for anything dots or jobs related right now

#

The way I learned is by messing with ecs

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:18 PM

#

yuki did you try that code?

#

also noomieware i assume on creation of the child entities when adding localtoworld localtoparent and translation they are blank?

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:20 PM

#

I will soon(tm) right now I am on the phone with a customer so I did not have the time to.

#

timezones are not fun

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

#

@safe lintel yes, setting only Translation afterwards

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

#

21:20 and I am still working technically

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

Or do you mean, I’d have to set LocalTo* ecplicitlY to initial values, probably zeros

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

no chance of any other systems interacting with it by chance after the fact?

#

yeah i dont think its necessary to explicitly set zero

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

No matter what you write to LocalToWorld, the transform system should write the (Translation+Rotation+Scale) into it every frame

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

what about commenting out adding any of your own components, and even removing the rendermesh from the process, see if you still get the offset issues when simplifying

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

@safe lintel It seems I have to adapt it to fit the new template or am I just confused?

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

@gusty comet what do you mean exactly?

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

#

@prime cipher wait, so you have the parent at (0,0,0) with scale = 3, and the child is at (5, 0, -8) relative to parent, so it should render at (15, 0, -24), which looks more or less like that is happening on your screenshot (assuming the pink vectors are (5, 0, -8))

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:33 PM

#

also @worldly pulsar there was or still is the issue of creating an entity but the transform system doesnt kick in writing to the localtoworld so for a frame you might be seeing stuff get created at 0,0,0 or whatever the converted prefab's localtoworld is

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

(sry if I missed part of the conversation)

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

meant it as just a response to when you wrote about localtoworld being written to every frame

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

it complains about this part var rendermesh = new RenderMesh { castShadows = ShadowCastingMode.On, layer = 0, material = material, mesh = mesh, receiveShadows = true, subMesh = -1 }; specifically the RenderMesh

winter veldt Dec 4, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

what the error?

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

@worldly pulsar Wait, you mean scale affects everything not just the size of my RenderMesh?

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

that the type or namespace does not exist

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:37 PM

#

yes, scale is for the whole hierarchy

#

same as for old-style Transforms

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

@gusty comet you need to add the hybridrenderer package

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

oops, will do that one sec

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

in particular, any child Translation will be effectively multiplied by the scale of its parents

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

it shouldnt affect the local Translation though

#

only the LocalToParent

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:42 PM

#

@worldly pulsar holy moly just wanted to reuse one mesh an size it

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:43 PM

#

LocalToParent is Matrix(Translation, Rotation, Scale)
then LocalToWorld is LocalToParent * Parent.LocalToWorld
so if Parent.LocalToWorld has scale in it, then local translation is effectively multiplied by it

#

LocalToWorld is what is then used for rendering

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:45 PM

#

Totally makes sense now . Thx

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:46 PM

#

while the localtoworld is modified, im pretty sure the Translation component should not be affected by the values of the parent entity

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:46 PM

#

So my use case would be mesh instance manipulation? Need to look that up though

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

@safe lintel And what I was talking about is if you import the current version of the Entities package you can create a pre made cs with a pre defined structure that I assume is what we are supposed to use

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

@safe lintel it is not

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

But the renderer never looks at the Translation component, all it cares about is LocalToWorld

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

this is what you get for example if you create a new system

📎 unknown.png

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:49 PM

#

@gusty comet just copy paste the entire thing in and call it MoveAuthoring.cs, you dont need to adapt anything

#

📎 firefox_x8CkIuRSVn.png

#

i thought this was the whole reason of your woes @prime cipher

#

a translation value being added in somewhere that offset the creation of your entity?

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:52 PM

#

No, Translation always reflected the expected values, just the rendered mesh was not at the Translation vector but somewhere else

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:52 PM

#

ohhhh

#

lol

#

well shit sorry to have not understood 🙂

prime cipher Dec 4, 2019, 8:53 PM

#

Sry to habe not explained properly.

#

@safe lintel @worldly pulsar thx.

#

You not accidentally know by heart how to scale the instantiated mesh ? ☺️😛

worldly pulsar Dec 4, 2019, 8:56 PM

#

you can move the scale to the child

#

or divide the child Translation by the parent Scale

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 8:58 PM

#

@safe lintel what is the expected behaviour?

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 8:59 PM

#

it creates a capsule and that capsule moves forward when you press space

#

without conversion

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 9:00 PM

#

yeah nope

#

what I can gather is that when I hold space the z value of the entity increases that is about it

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

well technically not a capsule, thats the mesh i used but whatever mesh you input in the mesh field

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 9:05 PM

#

Forget everything I said I was just a derp.

#

It works

safe lintel Dec 4, 2019, 9:07 PM

#

had me worried everything i was saying in discord was inaccurate 🙂

gusty comet Dec 4, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

hmm seems materials do not like transparent pixels 😦

stable fog Dec 4, 2019, 11:22 PM

#

Okay, heres a question

onyx mist Dec 5, 2019, 1:44 AM

#

more than two hours later and still no answer to twiners question 😔

stable fog Dec 5, 2019, 1:58 AM

#

.<

#

I don't even remember what it was

safe lintel Dec 5, 2019, 2:29 AM

#

didnt see a question only a statement 🙂

stable fog Dec 5, 2019, 2:30 AM

#

The question is imaginary you have the find the answer within yourself

magic frigate Dec 5, 2019, 4:14 AM

#

Anyone else able to run the updated physics examples?

#

I'm getting a package manager error

dull copper Dec 5, 2019, 4:27 AM

#

they work for me

left spindle Dec 5, 2019, 5:11 AM

#

Working in a component system, I would like a fixed-size array, I found this: https://forum.unity.com/threads/arrays-in-structs-in-c.22628/#post-2073615

Unity Forum

Arrays in Structs in C#

My structs are really messy. I'm having to use things like:

public struct bobStructure
{
int bob1;
int bob2;
int bob3;
}

when what I really...

#

However, this is all for MonoBehaviours, will all that truly work in ECS/Jobs?

#

What I am trying to do: Fill a 3x3 "grid" of ints. The grid size will never, ever change, and using individual int variables is just bothersome. I was wondering if there's a better way.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:16 AM

#

If you need an array in ecs you use a dynamic buffer

#

https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.entities@0.3/manual/dynamic_buffers.html

left spindle Dec 5, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

Huh! Thank you!

magic frigate Dec 5, 2019, 5:55 AM

#

Reinstalling the engine version fixed my issue.

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 6:18 AM

#

@zenith wyvern @left spindle You can do this also:

unsafe struct InlineArray<T> where T : unmanaged {
    public readonly T* Buffer;
    public readonly int Length;
    
    public T this[int index] {
        get { return Buffer[index]; }
        set { Buffer[index] = value; }
    }
    
    public InlineArray(byte* buffer, int length) {
        Buffer = buffer;
        Length = length;
    }
}

unsafe struct MyComponent : IComponentData {

    // 12 = sizeof float3
    // 8 = element count
    fixed byte _Float3Array[12 * 8];

    public InlineArray<float3> Float3Array {
        get
        {
            fixed (byte* p = _Float3Array) {
                return new InlineArray<float3>(p, 8);
            }
        }
    }
    
}

If you want just a quick/short array in a component

left spindle Dec 5, 2019, 6:21 AM

#

I do want a quick/short array, thank you!

#

Why does Buffer have to be T when it's assigning buffer to it (and it's a byte*)?

#

I cast it to (T*) and the compiler stopped throwing the error so I hope that's good. I don't deal with "unsafe" stuff very much.

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 8:13 AM

#

@left spindle i wrote this from memory in discord text window, so possible i fucked something up 😄

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

Is it possible to override the ecs delta time? i.e. the time used for animation/physics/etc ?

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 9:09 AM

#

is it possible to dynamically create and destroy worlds? i.e. instantiate a world dynamically during runtime, attach systems to them, and then destroy it later on

silver dragon Dec 5, 2019, 10:31 AM

#

Yep

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 11:05 AM

#

@left spindle if you want a fixed size array of any primitive type (float/int/byte etc. no string tho) you can do this:

unsafe struct Comp : IComponentData {
    public fixed int Arr[9];
}```

dull copper Dec 5, 2019, 12:01 PM

#

https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.netcode/0.0.3-preview.2
https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.transport/0.2.2-preview.2

#

## [NetCode 0.0.3-preview.2] - 2019-12-05

### Changes
* Updated the documentation and added a section about prediction.
* Upgraded entities to 0.3.0.

### Fixes
* Fixed a crash when multiple clients disconnected on the same frame.
* Fixed read / write access specifiers in AfterSimulationInterpolationSystem.
* Fixed build errors in non-development standalone builds.

## [Transport 0.2.2-preview.2] - 2019-12-05

### Changes
* Added a stress test for parallel sending of data.
* Upgraded collections to 0.3.0.

### Fixes
* Fixed a race condition in IPCNetworkInterface.
* Changed NetworkEventQueue to use UnsafeList to get some type safety.
* Fixed an out-of-bounds access in the reliable sequenced pipeline.
* Fixed spelling and broken links in the documentation.

#

hmmmmm

#

Entity Conversion preview breaks asap when I add that NetCode package to the project

#

I mean, if viewed while playing in editor

frosty siren Dec 5, 2019, 12:47 PM

#

@left spindle why not just use int3x3 if u need grid 3x3?

remote coyote Dec 5, 2019, 1:11 PM

#

Ty for notice Olento

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 2:21 PM

#

As much as I try the whole conversion stuff does not yet gel with me.

stable fog Dec 5, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

I don't like the conversion workflow, it feels like a half measure to me

#

and perhaps less forgivingly, a hack solution

tiny ore Dec 5, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

-> rotated 90 degrees CCW

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:28 PM

#

I'm still working a "simple" example for sprite conversion but it's slow going. The conversion is the easy part. The hard part is figuring out the flow of data from conversion to rendering

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 2:28 PM

#

My approach to that is trying to use the hybrid renderer

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

Which I guess is why Unity still hasn't come up with anything better than the incredibly basic hybrid renderer

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

all I am trying to do is convert a gameobject with a sprite component to a entity with said sprite using the hybrid renderer package

#

but what bugs me is I have no clue what the hybrid renderer exactly does.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:30 PM

#

It's open source so you can always dig in to find out

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

@zenith wyvern after you have SpriteRect and some way to reference an atlas on each entity, what is the problem then? I thought gather all entities -> sort by atlas -> Draw would be good enough?

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

One thing that came up while fidding around is that according to the compiler components can only hold primitive types

#

which is kind of odd?

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

What do you mean by "atlas" in this context?

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:38 PM

#

A sprite atlas, a single texture with a bunch of source textures arranged in a grid or whatever

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:41 PM

#

So you need a custom shader that handles per instance uv data. You then need to collate all the separate entity uv data per sprite and push it to the shader

#

That's the complicated part I'm finding

#

I've already done all this in the 200K sprites thing I made. Now I'm trying to simplify it down as much as I can

#

Turns out it's not so simple, at least from what I can see

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

Oh, it's the simplyfying that's hard. Yeah, getting instancing to work annoying.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:45 PM

#

And unfortunately the RenderMesh system isn't much help. It offers no built in way of instancing data on the ecs side so you just have to do everything the old way by pushing all your instance data to the material in compute buffers and doing Graphics.DrawMeshInstanceIndirect per material

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

I think I've seen some movement in that direction (like, you can set the _Color by adding a component)

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:47 PM

#

Oh really?

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

There was a forum post where Joachim gave an example

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

I'll have to dig that up, maybe I could just expand on that

#

Although looking through the source for the rendermesh system it's really hard to make heads or tails of it

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

tell me about it

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

https://forum.unity.com/threads/per-instance-material-params-support-in-entities-0-2.782207/

Unity Forum

Per-instance material params support in Entities 0.2!

For some reason this was not in the release notes, but I've managed to get per-instance material params working in the 0.2 release. This is similar in...

#

Haven't looked at it any deeper or tested that

#

And it was Siggi that gave an example not Joachim 🙂

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 2:54 PM

#

speaking of conversion workflow, let's say you made your own sprite renderer
you could use conversion from unity's spriterenderer to your ecs sprite renderer, but then you're basically using something else to render in editor (non-play mode)

#

you could make your own ecs spriterenderer authoring but then it won't render because systems don't run out of play mode

#

what's the solution here if you're trying to show stuff while scene editing without making a completely seperate authoring rendering system

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 2:59 PM

#

I think you're always just meant to use "old" stuff in editor mode, so you would use sprites in the editor

#

If what will eventually show up in ECS can't be sufficiently represented via gameobjects due to performance or whatever you just have to abstract it with custom editors

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 3:00 PM

#

you can create a world for at edit-time - I'm working on using it as a solution for previewing tweens

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 3:00 PM

#

Pretty sure you can both run systems in editor, and the (non-subscene) entities are converted into the editor world

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 3:02 PM

#

ahh didn't know you can create edit-time worlds

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 3:02 PM

#

Hybrid Renderer has [ExecuteAlways] and it runs in the Editor World

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 3:02 PM

#

that's good

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

I finally got the simplest thing working.

#

Aka have a game object with a sprite that then gets converted to an entity with the proper components

honest dirge Dec 5, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

@gusty comet the problem I ran unto with hybrid renderer and sprites is that alpha sorting sprites does not work. There is no way to draw them in the correct order (back to front).

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

rendermesh has a layer property

#

📎 unknown.png

#

I freely admit I used in large parts loogies code to get a grasp on how to construct the rendermesh from the ground up to get it to work but it does work now

#

Oh wait derp, alpha sorting...

#

I should read a bit slower I guess

#

yeah no idea on that front I have to say

#

but its better then nothing I would say. For my use case transparency is not that much of an issue since there wont ever be much occupying the same tile ever

honest dirge Dec 5, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

If you can guarantee that then for sure it's a non-issue.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

Yeah I make a 2d Roguelike so yeah I can

honest dirge Dec 5, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

I wanted to be able to use it to ECS my entire parallax system but it was a no-go

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

Yeah, but given they said they will add 2d support but postponed it because people cried for 3d support in project tiny

#

which annoys the f... out of me to be honest

honest dirge Dec 5, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

I wonder how many people are even using tiny yet

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:42 PM

#

Well right now you cant even because they pulled the package

#

so unless you scram to find it you wont even see it is available

#

so my guess is, not many

#

But given they advertised it for super short casual games and ADS

#

I guess its a question of "it will make us money to listen"

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

weren't they going to use hybrid renderer in project tiny so it was one unified thing

#

i think that's why they postponed 2d in tiny, they were writing their stuff completely seperate from all the other dots packages before but now they are unifying and hybrid renderer doesn't support 2d yet

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

Well initially we where also supposed to get a pure dots editor, and then tiny was supposed to be pure dots now its neither

#

this year has been confusing overall in where unity goes

#

bottom line, I dont know for sure

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

yea it's weird

#

i'm not against conversion workflow but the whole thing is so awkward atm

#

with subscenes

#

and if you modify your authoring component you have to manually change a version tag which literally has a string of your name on it + version, just to let subscenes know they need to update

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

I mean I get that, it might be a bit odd for a single seat user, but in a team that makes sense

#

especially with the caching

#

But I agree the whole conversion workflow is arkward.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

Yuuki that's just rendering from a whole texture right, not from a spritesheet?

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 3:57 PM

#

Yeah thats just a single texture

#

If you do anything beyond displaying it might not be worth your while it was done specifically for a usecase like loogie or I have, as said most of the code is his.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

Gotcha

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 4:01 PM

#

All it basically does is take a sprite you specify, build a rendermesh with the 2d sprite renderer material, construct a rendermesh and display the result

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:01 PM

#

is the conversion workflow the one they decided on?

#

it feels pretty hacky

rare umbra Dec 5, 2019, 5:04 PM

#

I don't suppose the DOTS multiplayer sample is out yet?

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

theres the sample repo

#

but it only has a small asteroids game

rare umbra Dec 5, 2019, 5:06 PM

#

aah, it's the FPS one I'm waiting ofr

#

for*

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

@trail burrow I wouldn't say hacky, just really unpolished

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

I agree with fholm it feels very hacky.

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

@worldly pulsar they're using their old system as a bootstrap to pull data from... it feels like a giant hack 😦

#

because they didnt wanna rebuild the editor

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

It works if you want to move from game objects to Entities but once you are in the entity space you loose all interlinking

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

because it'd be too much work

#

i mean it is what we got, so whatcha gonna do about it

#

but well

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:14 PM

#

Like I have still no clue how a UI monobehaviour like a simple label would even display the contents of a component for example

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

Well, they could write a full new editor, have that editor edit authoring data, make you write builders that turn authoring data -> runtime data. But the result would be like 95% the same as piggybacking on existing MonoBehaviour tools

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

As it stands right now I fail to see how unity is a better way to do it over just firing up monogame and implement a custom ECS that I have full control over

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

Remember that separating authoring data from runtime data is the goal here.

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

It's literally in active development

#

It sucks right now, it's going to get better

#

Hopefully

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:17 PM

#

As I said yesterday, for my taste they made this publicly available at least a year to early

#

For example once we get visual scripting, it only has a dots representation, same with the new physics stuff

#

which keeps the whole thing in this odd limbo state

#

for probably several years

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:18 PM

#

I said before either they gonna pull this off properly in the end and everyone will switch, or this DOTS-switch is going to be in textbooks in 15 years as an example on how to NOT do a major technology pivot lol

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

Its a shame given that Dots itsself is not at fault

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

Preview tech is not supposed to be used in production. And developing new stuff in the open is the best thing for a devtool company to do.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

its not supposed to be used yes, but evaluated as if

#

since that is the goal in the end

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

I mean however it ends up I vastly prefer this to how it used to be. Take ugui, literal years of development with almost no information coming out and when they finally drop it, well....

#

Let's just say it could have used more user feedback while in development

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

they're on their third ui lib and third networking lib

#

third times the charm

#

so

#

.... maybe?

#

😄

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

I still use the ass old UI lib

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:20 PM

#

it has the big benefit for debugging tools in that you can write a GUI which will work in both editor window and in a game build

#

which we do a lot

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

UIElements is super promising. And thankfully they are letting us mess around with it while it's still in it's infancy

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

I mean I am not their target audience because I hate everything webdev with a burning passion

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

I'm still trying to overcome my aversion to CSS 😛

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

so the whole css stuff scares the crap out of me

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

i went to gamedev

#

to get away from css

#

thanks unity

#

😄

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

I'm not a fan of it either but it makes a lot of sense with how tools are developed for games

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 5:21 PM

#

I am generally not a friend of anything that is interpreted

#

I like stuff that is defintive

#

because it is easier to reason about and you do not need to know intricacies of implementation

#

I wont judge it before I havent tinkered with it for a while so I wait till it drops

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:22 PM

#

With the ui builder you won't even have to mess with css or anything. You build your ui visually similar to how you do with ugui then just hook it up in code

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:23 PM

#

I'm trying to overcome my aversion to visual gui editors as well 🙂

#

MS FrontPage anyone?

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:23 PM

#

But if you want the EXTREMELY useful stuff like separating layouts and styling you can do that too

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

Actually since we are super off-topic anyway, @zenith wyvern do you know what is the status of the in-game UIElements and ECS-UIElements?

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

Last I saw they're delaying runtime UIElements until 2020.1

safe lintel Dec 5, 2019, 5:49 PM

#

frontpage was my jam! dont diss it!

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:50 PM

#

And they said they're working on turning it into a package on the package manager at the same time at which point they can start looking at integrating it with ECS

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

ok, so distant future. thanks

safe lintel Dec 5, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

ingame is supposed to be sometime in 2020

#

oh ecs

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

That thread you showed me about instancing data on entities for the Hybrid renderer is really promising

safe lintel Dec 5, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

oh sark already replied, should drink more coffee

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

https://forum.unity.com/threads/per-instance-material-params-support-in-entities-0-2.782207/

Unity Forum

Per-instance material params support in Entities 0.2!

For some reason this was not in the release notes, but I've managed to get per-instance material params working in the 0.2 release. This is similar in...

#

Sadly it's only for HDRP right now

#

But if that's how it's going to work with URP it will be fantastic

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

Isn't Hybrid basically HDRP only right now?

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 5:53 PM

#

Yeah

#

But you can just assign arbitrary data in your component and it will automatically pass it along to the shader

#

Oh I don't think the hybrid renderer is hdrp only atm, you can just drop it in a normal scene and it works as far as I know

#

But the per-instance ecs data only works with hdrp materials right now I guess

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 5:59 PM

#

My understanding (based on Joachims post in that very thread among other things) was that they are working on Hybrid for HDRP first and other pipelines work kindof by accident

#

I know the last time I tried hybrid with LWRP it was... not good

zenith wyvern Dec 5, 2019, 6:00 PM

#

That's a bummer but I guess it makes sense. I'm not really interested in the bulky mess of HDRP for doing small scale tests with ECS

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 6:03 PM

#

Would be nice if there was somewhere that kept an up to date matrix of all of the RP stuff. HybridRenderer works with built-in something like so long as you 1) use standard shaders if you want instancing, 2) don't need light baking, 3) ... etc - my assumption is these will be first supported on hdrp as Rett says but it's hard to keep all of this in your head.. or even know before you pick an avenue

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 6:05 PM

#

I'd rather have the effort needed for testing/maintaining that matrix spent in getting the renderer done asap 😛

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

.. not sure there's anyone at Unity who would actually know enough to be able to make it anyway given the teams and intricacies 😅

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 6:19 PM

#

what even is the hybrid renderer

#

ECS question: is it possible to have several instances of the same system in different worlds at once?

coarse turtle Dec 5, 2019, 6:20 PM

#

yep

#

You can create the system into another world

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

so i can create a world during runtime, and dynamically add systems to it? even if another world with some of those systems already exist?

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

World.GetOrCreateSystem<Sys>() will do that for you

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 6:21 PM

#

Is there anything specific around multiple worlds that are broken right now?

#

like loading sub scenes into them, or something?

coarse turtle Dec 5, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

I havent tried subscenes yet but they seem to work for me so far

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 6:22 PM

#

how would i load a subscene into a specific world?

#

been trying to figure that one out also

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

Not sure sorry - not tried something like that. However, being a bit curious I see you could take a look at AsyncLoadSceneOperations.cs e.g. using (var reader = new MemoryBinaryReader(FileContent)) { k_ProfileDeserializeWorld.Begin(); SerializeUtility.DeserializeWorld(Transaction, reader, objectReferences); k_ProfileDeserializeWorld.End(); } and other bits might be useful

#

would be interested to see if you get a simple example working

#

afaik there isn't a nice easy API call for it yet.. there's just the subscene auto load stuff

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

@trail burrow I may be completely wrong on this because I never tried, but from what I understand each subscene is represented by an entity with the SceneReference component (just a GUID in it), and if you attach the RequestSceneLoaded component to it then there is a system in InitializationSystemGroup that is supposed to notice that and load the subscene.
So maybe if you somehow copy the SceneReference+RequestSceneLoad to the other world it would work?

sharp nacelle Dec 5, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

speaking of different worlds - I am currently browsing through the docs but can't seem to find a way to transfer entities between worlds. I basically just need to instantiate a entity into one world based on an entity in another world.

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

@worldly pulsar ¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

i really dont know lol

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

I am still somewhat confused. I have the following situation. I have an entity (say for example a player) that has a given component(say a transform) and I have an UI element that I want to display its x and y position in. What I am not sure of is how on the monobehaviour side of things would I query the entity and its component data?

zenith bramble Dec 5, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

@gusty comet are you manually creating the entity? Or is it created with the conversion workflow?

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

Well in my current situation I have created it in the conversion workflow but I also have instances where this is not the case.

#

This is the authoring I am using at the moment to do so https://pastebin.com/8Tkz37xF

Pastebin

using Unity.Entities; using UnityEngine; using Unity.Rendering; ...

#

Its a derivative of what loogie did to get a sprite to render on the ECS side of things baked into an authoring system basically

#

I plan to generalize this further by letting it grab the sprite from the gameobject it is attached to once I am a bit further into things

#

Its a very hacky workaround using the hybrid renderer

#

I mean one of the big advantages of ECS is supposedly be to easily reference data, which inside the ECS system works like a charm, but beyond that I am utterly clueless.

#

Aka how to "bridge the gap" if you will

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 9:54 PM

#

You can run main thread code over mb’s that have been converted if that helps. I.e. Entities.ForEach(.. in SpriteRenderer sr) and get texture data. Apologies if you already knew that.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

I honestly have no idea of what you speak. And I dont need texture data I just want to get a primitive value out of an alredy existing entity on the monobehaviour side of things so I can display them.

amber flicker Dec 5, 2019, 9:56 PM

#

I’d probably approach it as a system setting a MB rather than a MB interrogating an entity

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:57 PM

#

Which way around is secondary to me as long as it works.

#

but how does the system even know that the monobehaviour side exists?

safe pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 9:57 PM

#

@gusty comet https://forum.unity.com/threads/showcase-pure-dots-ui-system-detailed-description-feedback.688531/

Unity Forum

Feedback - [Showcase] Pure DOTS UI system (detailed description + ...

source code released: https://forum.unity.com/threads/source-code-dotsui-open-source-ui-project-for-dots.715880/

Motivation

The current Unity UI...

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:57 PM

#

this is all totally confusing to me

safe pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 9:58 PM

#

I havent used myself, but you should lok into it how he does it.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 9:58 PM

#

Thats not helping me right now, I want to find the supposed workflow not something externally created

safe pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 9:58 PM

#

Right, but theres most likely an answer somewhere in there.

#

Look through the code, see how he does it. Recreate.

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 9:59 PM

#

Talking to uGUI from ECS really isn't something you want to do right now. UI in general is on the "Not Ready Yet" pile.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:00 PM

#

I dont want to talk to UI specifically this was just one use case. I just want to know how the heck I am supposed to let the monobehaviour side peek into the ecs side

#

regardless of what it is

#

since right now I have no clue how that is supposed to happen

#

All I want is basically find an entity, find a given component of that entity, and read a value that it has on the monobehaviour side

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 10:01 PM

#

You can query the World.DefaultReallyLongNameThing from a monobehaviour, or use a GameObject with "Convert and Inject GameObject" that is not part of the canvas to have an ecs system see that gameobject.

#

For non-uGUI GameObjects you can just use Convert and Inject and the systems can just query for the components on them

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:05 PM

#

So what I am gathering there is its best I just ditch the Monobehaviour side completly and write my own systems in pure ECS

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

or use injected GameObjects

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:13 PM

#

The whole conversion workflow as it exist right now is too hacky to rely on for me, too many excpetions or things not there yet.

worldly pulsar Dec 5, 2019, 10:14 PM

#

that's true for the whole DOTS ecosystem

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:14 PM

#

Yeah I mostly muck around with it to learn as of right now

#

One thing that seems to be the case that I am not sure of yet though. As I understand it that the world that is created is completly scene agonistic

#

which means at one point or another we might have to dispose of things manually again?

#

Or is component data deallocated immediatly after a job has run its course?

untold night Dec 5, 2019, 10:17 PM

#

These days you can have temp allocations that get cleaned up automatically if you use Allocator.Temp in Jobs

#

There's also JobHandle Dispose(JobHandle) that does jobified deallocation on native jobs, which is relatively recent

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:18 PM

#

Yeah wasnt that supposed to be used only for literally temporarily needed data? aka say a intermediate result of something that you then discard before a job returns its result

#

What I am curious about is where basically the boundaries of state are

#

Say I have a "map" that is a bunch of tiles that all have a position and a type like in any turn based game, then I move on to a different level and the previous tiles are basically of no use to me. In managed code I would normally deallocate those

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 10:22 PM

#

@gusty comet late reply but from monobehaviour you just query components same as normal, and the other way around you can just add your UI elements (or whatever other monobehaviour) to an entity and iterate that from a system

#

i think it was 0.2 that added adding monobehaviours to entities

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 10:22 PM

#

@gusty comet If you are looking for 'ready made solutions' that work out of the box, give up on ECS/DOTS atm.

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:22 PM

#

I am not looking for ready made solutions, quite the contrary actually

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 10:23 PM

#

and regarding deallocation, i'd prob add something like a scene/tile tag and delete every entity with that tag if the tile gets unloaded

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:23 PM

#

Where I am right I am basically trying to understand the expected workflow @trail burrow

#

Since they released this to be tinkered around with I think its safe to assume that they had a specific workflow in mind

#

For both a pure and a hybrid approach

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 10:24 PM

#

static stuff use conversion workflow, dynamic is instantiated from archetypes/prefabs, scenes are loaded/unloaded via the subscene idea

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

And yeah scorr that is pretty much what I was thinking. Since runtime GC can not really defer what is no longer needed due to the nature of how systems are working.

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

what do you mean

#

if you are doing full ecs you're not using GC

trail burrow Dec 5, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

the ECS basically doesn't cause the mono gc to run because its all allocated from native mem

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:27 PM

#

Ah see that helps, which gets me back to yeah we have to manage that on our end, which I am fine with, I just wanted to know if that is the case.

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 10:27 PM

#

no need for object pooling or anything, just delete an entity and it's gone

#

still not sure what you mean, have to manage what on our end?

gusty comet Dec 5, 2019, 10:29 PM

#

deallocation

hollow sorrel Dec 5, 2019, 10:30 PM

#

it's basically same as with monobehaviours isn't it
except you don't have to worry about garbage and the slowness of instantiating gameobjects

viral sonnet Dec 6, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

@gusty comet It's possible to get and inject data into ECS from a MB, you just need the EntityManager. I store it on init in a public static and use this for UI stuff

#

My 3rd person camera script has only a reference to an entity, in update i get the translation comp to get the current position for example

#

There's actually nothing preventing you from exchanging data

#

It's not recommended because it's slower and runs on main thread but I don't care for that when the other solution would be to rewrite everything

deft niche Dec 6, 2019, 1:26 AM

#

Has anyone used the feature of adding managed components like GameObjects directly in component data ?

#

Seems like its possible in 0.2.0

magic frigate Dec 6, 2019, 2:01 AM

#

One thing that confuses me when reading discussions about Unity ECS are static vs dynamic entities. What exactly is not dynamic about them?

#

Post for reference: https://forum.unity.com/threads/per-instance-material-params-support-in-entities-0-2.782207/#post-5206433

Unity Forum

Per-instance material params support in Entities 0.2!

For some reason this was not in the release notes, but I've managed to get per-instance material params working in the 0.2 release. This is similar in...

viral sonnet Dec 6, 2019, 2:18 AM

#

@deft niche I've not read anything new about it. Do you know more?

#

@magic frigate It's about rendering. You can optimize better for non-moving entities.

magic frigate Dec 6, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

Ah. I got way too far ahead of myself assuming it was something to do with the memory layout and not just a rendering thing

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 10:13 AM

#

@deft niche I dropped my weird string interning scheme and just attach
class Title : IComponentData { public string Value; }
to my entities now. No problems with it so far.

#

Ah you mean attaching MonoBehaviours. No, sorry.

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 10:44 AM

#

did anyone tried to use UECS with IL2CPP on windows?

#

I am getting this, but don't how how to fix it as the disabled stripping level is not available anymore

#

📎 unknown.png

#

(of course I can modify the code but don't want to do that)

mystic mountain Dec 6, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

Did they remove the name sorting of groups, or have I messed up a lot in my project? x)

#

Now my AA<systemName> ZZ<systemName> doesn't work anymore x)

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.audio.dspgraph/0.1.0-preview.11

#

@scarlet inlet you can use link.xml at the root of Assets folder (I dunno if it works elsewhere in the Assets folder too

#

to whitelist packages that you don't want to get stripped

#

example here from dots physicss samples: https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/EntityComponentSystemSamples/blob/master/UnityPhysicsSamples/Assets/link.xml

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:34 AM

#

great thank you!

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:35 AM

#

I just personally copy that file over

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:35 AM

#

yes sounds good

#

do you know what I should do to get a package from git? I am trying to make my library package compatible

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:40 AM

#

I don't understand the question

#

what package?

#

if you mean the package managers ability to use github as source, you probably need github repo/branch that's prepared for that kind of use

#

I dunno if they support separate package paths inside git repo yet

#

in past they didn't which practically destroyed the feature for most (as you can't then share the actual package and sample on the same branch)

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

yes I am talking about that and it seems to be a thing in unity 2019.3

#

but using a git url with a package.json on the root doesn't seem to work

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:48 AM

#

what is a thing?

#

git support or paths inside the repo?

#

if the latter is not supported, it's not that useful

#

it's actually been there for a quite while, they just did a GUI for it

#

Here's for example Alloy shaders turned into package https://github.com/0lento/Alloy

GitHub

0lento/Alloy

Alloy physical shader framework for Unity. Contribute to 0lento/Alloy development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

I did that on summer 2018

#

but back then the package needed to at the root of the branch

silver dragon Dec 6, 2019, 11:52 AM

#

Maybe this helps, too: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/CustomPackages.html

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:53 AM

#

ok checking them thank you

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:54 AM

#

that's just how to make them, I thought the idea was to use some existing package from github?

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:54 AM

#

@silver dragon I checked that, I don't understand why that article assumes I know what an embedded package is

#

no I am making a github package

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 11:54 AM

#

ah

#

then just stuff the package at the root of your github branch

#

and that article is the right thing to get started

#

just go through it (it's good they finally have docs for these)

#

basically you need package.json at the root.. that's the bare minimum

#

and you also need to have your code and shaders use package specific paths

#

and if there's editor and runtime scripts, you have to setup assembly definitions and organize the package folder structure so that these are separated

#

that's about it

#

PM can nowadays make the custom package shell now, there should be a wizard for it

#

you can also edit package.json directly with the editor now and same with asmdefs

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 11:58 AM

#

yeah I think you are right, in fact it's telling me that my json is not valid and I am trying to figure out why 😄

#

yes a wizard would be useful

#

it doesn't like a dependency written in this way: "dependencies": {
"com.unity.collections": "0.3.0"
},

#

I think I got why

#

got it

#

a wizard would definitevly be less time consuming

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 12:07 PM

#

well, editor has these

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 12:10 PM

#

where? and do you know how to specify a dependency that must be at least a version and not that specific version?

#

thank you for your help btw

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 12:26 PM

#

OK I managed to make it work anyway. Even if a package with previous dependencies changes the current project, one can update it again with no problems

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 12:34 PM

#

@scarlet inlet just select the json file with Unity Editor

#

you can edit it there

vestal pendant Dec 6, 2019, 12:42 PM

#

hey, I've been battling with trying to move the pivot of an entity in order to scale respectively by it. I've seen ScalePivotTranslation and ScalePivot in the API but dont know how I should use them properly

#

if anyone know how or have any advice I'd be thankful

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

@dull copper I meant more a wizard to create the json file for me

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 12:47 PM

#

right click on the editor's file view

#

there should be way to create assembly definitions

#

for the main json you may need to make a new package using package manager's wizard

#

there's some + button somewhere I think

#

or on the dropdown menu

#

once you have the json file in place

#

you can just select it and edit it

#

also, this is quite #💻┃unity-talk now

scarlet inlet Dec 6, 2019, 12:52 PM

#

ok back to dots then, do you know if SkinnedMeshRender is supported? I have seen demos with skinned mesh

#

in the changelog there is written: New Features
Added support for vertex skinning.
but it's not clear if it means support SkinnedMeshRenderer

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 12:58 PM

#

pretty they need to go different route for keeping the animation cheap for large entity counts

#

there's a new animation package but there's not much info how to you use it atm

#

once dots shooter project is out, we at least have practical example how these all work together

worn stag Dec 6, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

there is samples for dots animation already on github https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/Unity.Animation.Samples

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/Unity.Animation.Samples

Repository of projects that showcase the new DOTS animation package (com.unity.animation). - Unity-Technologies/Unity.Animation.Samples

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

So much new terminology.. keeping my distance for now 😄

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

I'm getting increasingly annoyed by the fact "performance by default" really means "performance if you use Burst"

#

Todays disappointment: NativeHashMap<int, int> is a lot slower than Dictionary<int, int> on Mono, and a fair bit slower on il2cpp

#

(on both add and access)

#

The #1 disappointment: Unity.Mathematics on Mono is a sad joke in terms of performance

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

yea

#

not sure what they are doing with the math library that makes it run so poor on mono

#

they're aware of it too

#

basically said it's by design because the intended use case is "just use il2cpp/burst"

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 2:55 PM

#

il2cpp is still slower than using Mathf/UnityEngine.Quaternion/Matrix/Vector3

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 2:56 PM

#

wow really?

#

thought it was at least better than that on il2cpp

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

(I tested that quite a while ago - a few months at least - so maybe it changed, but it was still better to stick to Mathf)

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

new math lib was never meant to be performant without burst

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:01 PM

#

Right now I have a Mono project that I want to optimize that uses a Dictionary accessed from all over the place, and I need to add a perf-critical piece of code that touches that dictionary a lot. So either change to NativeHashMap, write the new code with Burst, and make literally everything else slower... or just write Mono code.

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:02 PM

#

main reason the new math lib exists is so they can hardcode some math instructions

#

which does make sense in the bigger picture

#

if you are not going to use Burst, then you may as well try to optimize your stuff differently

#

but since it's central part of DOTS, you really shouldn't try to avoid it

#

everything is designed around it

#

doing just synthetic tests to prove things are shit without it makes no sense

#

as it's never been the goal

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

The thing is (with math) that I now have to use different math lib on main thread vs burst code, or accept that non-bursted code will be slower than it needs to be

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

why do you use different math?

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

because Mathf. is faster 😛

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

not with burst it isn't

#

unless they are some one off things

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

yea but that's his point

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

I have code that can't use burst

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

why not?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

#

Because not all code can execute in burst? lol 😄

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

well, bugs aside

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

C# reference types?

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:05 PM

#

I'm touching managed data structures

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

well, that's not performance by default then :p

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

...?

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

I mean, the grand goal is to use DOTS for everything and the goal is to get perf by default when you don't mix things with the old slow things

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

'old slow things' = the entire rest of the .net eco-system

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

they don't claim you get perf by default on hybrid setup today

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

when unity replaces all of that with DOTS compatible stuff

#

sure, i wont complain

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

That's my point, "performance by default" is "performance if you use Burst"

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

I just think that slogan is now totally taken out of context, that's all

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

burst isn't even that much faster unless you're doing something which is super easy to vectorize

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

it's not just burst tho

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:08 PM

#

how do you mean?

#

you mean linear memory, native memory, jobs?

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

yes

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

yeah but that's easily done by hand

#

the only unique thing dots offers is burst

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

sure, but it's always been tedious to do by hand

#

you could do SIMD operations manually too

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

But, that's always been a PITA in .NET before .NET Core 3.x and Burst

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

don't get me wrong

#

DOTS atm = PITA

#

but it's also not there yet

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:10 PM

#

Yes it absolutely is.

#

'not there yet' = been said for 2 (?) years now, so tired of hearing it lol

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

well, if we are lucky

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

Ok, I'll rephrase: I'm annoyed by the fact that major components of the "performance by default" ecosystem (namely Unity.Mathematics and Unity.Collections) are slower on their own than the old stuff

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

this stuff is running by 2025 smoothly

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

@worldly pulsar unitys collections are REALLY bad if you're not using them concurrently

#

like really really slow

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:12 PM

#

@worldly pulsar and that's also not what it's been designed to do well, so I dunno why one would expect it to be performant there

#

if you take a avg sedan to the off roading, it'll do a crap job too

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

@dull copper everything can not be made into a parallelization dream which scales linearly across cores, and if performance by default is the argument - then that has to hold for things which are not insanely parallel also IMHO.

#

You can't make half the other stuff slower, and defend yourself by that the other half is faster.

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

I just don't get what all this has to do with their slogan

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

That slogan is biting them in the ass 😄

dull copper Dec 6, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

Unity has never claimed their systems would work in performant ways if you take core parts out of it

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:14 PM

#

A native container using burst shouldn't be much if even slower than a managed container in a single thread no?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:14 PM

#

@zenith wyvern yes

#

they are waaaay slower

#

the .NET dictionary destroys the native hashmap thing by 5-6x

#

on a single thread ofc, since the .net dictionary can't be used in multithreading

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:15 PM

#

Oh right the parallel containers are reeeeallly bad, I guess I was only thinking of NativeArrays

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:16 PM

#

I wanted to be like "Hey guys look, I did this thing we thought was going to be expensive but it uses DOTS so it's not that bad, we should use DOTS more often", but I can't do that if changing a Dictionary to a NativeHashMap makes everything slower.

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:16 PM

#

i dont even think there's a difference between NativeArray and regular .NET array in terms of speed, they are both the most obvious O(1) datastructure, etc.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

The only advantage of NativeArray is they use native allocators. They are actually worse on Mono because Mono has special-case optimisations for built-in arrays

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

You can write to them in parallel though which you can't do with a managed array

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

yes you can

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

In dots that is

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

you can write to the .net array in parallel also if you want

#

using the same tricks that they use with thread index, etc.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

well, you can't write to managed arrays in dots, period. concurrent or not 😛

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

it's not something unique, we do the same thing in our own task system

#

oh well, sure

#

Sorry I'm just getting jaded from hearing 'dots is the best' ... but then you go and use it and the reality is ... 'but it's not ready and half the features are broken'

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

less of broken , more of non existent.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

I'm fine with it not being ready

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

@naive parrot well, maybe dots core itself (ecs/jobs/burst) is fairly finished, but everything around it is either half broken or missing.

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

It's always been the case with Unity that we're waiting for the next big thing. At least this time they're being open with it and letting us mess with the source

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

I'm not fine with it being worse than the managed stuff, or only usable in very specific ways, by design

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

I'm not fine with it being worse than the managed stuff, or only usable in very specific ways, by design
There's no silver bullet... It will always have restrictions... The goal is to make it super good for 80/90% of the things, and be flexible with how teams can handle the last mile.

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

Jobs + Burst is quite useful as it is currently though for. i have been doing stuff with it without considering ECS at all.

#

pure mono + jobs (with burst)

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

@naive parrot yeah that's my angle for it also

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

there are also asset store plugin leveraging jobs quite well.

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

I think the only complaint is the PR stuff... Lol... I think the "not yet ready" is as good as it gets... There are its pros as well (like being more "open")

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

A* Project already has beta version moving parts of it core to Jobs , where possible. there Motion Matching plugin that also use Jobs as base

#

there one other very popular terrain engine that now does lots of computation on jobs , am forgetting name of.

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

Exactly, I think the point is Unity has not yet decided completely on how much Bridging there will be

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

that old thing is still going? A* project

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

They're still in between... Would we always have both things?

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

yeah , Aron A* Is kicking fine!

#

@tiny ore most certainly. when you see how literally all production ready aspects of engine are non DOTS.

#

and there multi billion enterprise products completely done in non DOTS code , till now.

#

it will have to supported for long time as it is

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:26 PM

#

yep.. that's the elephant in the room IMHO.

#

They'll have to support 2 engines forever

#

That is not getting streamlined, it's getting worse...:)

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

i don't think DOTS was ever thought out as "Replacement"

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:28 PM

#

That's certainly how they advertise it...;)

#

by default

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

multi threaded , parallelized code will always be a challenge , even with all the heavy handling Unity has done with DOTS developement so far. casual development , hobbyist,students user of unity will continue not bothering with it

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

It seems like their goal at this point is to develop the gameobject side purely for editing and the dots side purely for runtime

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

should be more like: "as an option, for certain things where it makes sense", instead of "by default"

#

But If I knew marketing, I'd not be programming, right?

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:30 PM

#

i guess.

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:30 PM

#

yeah really. i feel like dots workflow is so different it -really- needs a new editor. sooner the better

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

not gonna happen

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

oh i know

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

That's pretty much decided that it will be the hack

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

Conversion workflow is the wya they're going

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

or better, the Mule

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

it still should happen

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

Sadly

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:31 PM

#

Conversion workflow = fancy name for the hacky mule

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:32 PM

#

I guess I'm the only one who is actually ok with the conversion workflow being the final thing 😛

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:32 PM

#

god it's such a hack

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:32 PM

#

I mean it sucks right now. But it makes sense to continue to leverage all the work they did with gameobjects and prefabs. Maybe it will eventually get to the point where it's hardly any different than what we always envisioned the "pure entity editor" would be

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:32 PM

#

pretty much. for someone like me who only got gradually exposed to DOTS stuff in only past 6 months , knowing how there were other ways other current conversion workflow , is quite jarring! all those Proxies and Injections.

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

From how they talked about it when they first announced it I think that's their goal at least

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:33 PM

#

I know how it works, i still hate it lol.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

I mean it's unpolished as hell, and the EntityDebugger sucks (that's the part I think most of the criticism of conversion comes from, we can't manipulate entities at runtime)

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

worst part , how some of the fundamental parts of engine are left unaddressed for so long now! RIP Navmesh!

#

till they are revamped for DOTS.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

But the general idea, including piggybacking on MonoBehaviours I actually like

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

i thought i remembered them saying the idea was to replace things.. eventually.. with dots implemetations of the same? i know it'd be a long long way. but that seems it was at the beginning of ecs and things have changed

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

can you put breakpoints into code thats inside the new foreach lambda stuff btw?

#

i dont think so

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:34 PM

#

The Navmesh question is interesting @naive parrot

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

@naive parrot some parts? the mecanim/playables thing is abandoned also apparently, etc.

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

Navmesh Components , the only sensible way to work with Navmeshes is not even part of core engine

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

replaced with dots animation

#

which is broken ofc

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

I haven't seen a single post about it... Is there any (real question)?

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

its an abandoned repo on github

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

@worldly pulsar well the point is it shouldn't be required. its all just overhead.. for what? so it shows up in editor? it just just be an editor made for ecs, then there's no conversion needed

naive parrot Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

also rip , GI ( Enligthen )

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:35 PM

#

oh yeah hows the new light baker coming along?

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

@winter veldt I have a lot of cases where data that's convenient to edit != data that's efficient/convenient to execute with. I had my own half-assed converters for a long way, but they usually worked in Awake() or required pressing a button in the editor to refresh the "baked" stuff

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

@worldly pulsar not that this is ultimately what we'd like but in the case of porting code / working with existing I think a pretty good pattern is to just copy the data before & after you've manipulated it. i.e. leave it as a Dictionary but for the heavy lifting, copy to a NMHM, burst job, then copy back. Depending on the size of your data, how much processing you're doing etc obviously it might not be worth it but just thought I'd mention it.

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

HOW is that a good pattern lol?

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

yes but that all sounds like you are talking about getting it to work with hybrid. if they just made a pure ecs editor, you wouldn't need to convert.

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

Oh I really don't want to copy that thing

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

That's the opposite of a good pattern lol

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

yeah

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

copying is fast.. not sure why it's a bad pattern for optimising existing code?

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

@winter veldt no, I mean I had that long before DOTS was a thing

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

certainly Unity/Joachim have suggested this is how they see it being used

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

@amber flicker copying say a million elements from a dict into a NMHM is not fast lol

#

NMHM is really really slow

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:39 PM

#

like I said.. it depends

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

That's not how the NMHM is intended to be used though right? The boids demo uses NMHM and that's pretty impressive to be running in the editor

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:40 PM

#

well yeah. there will always be a stretch of leveraging old code. but thats for people who want to use it. and will always be a stop-gap. that'd be the whole reasoning behind keeping gameobjects in the first place.. utilize all the work put into them. doesn't mean you aren't hamstringing those willing to try to fully implement things

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

@trail burrow seems to hit the breakpoints in new foreach as long as you use WithoutBurst()

#

doesn't seem like there is actually useful info in there though corgothonk

#

📎 unknown.png

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

@hollow sorrel then you have to add/remove that, in the code? every time you want to debug it?

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

can't even read the parameters that are passed in

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:41 PM

#

😦

#

why do they have to do all this magic shit

#

all the other 'magic' shit they've added they've regretted in the past

#

Unet IL weaver, DOTS injection, all the null/false conversion operators, etc.

#

Just make a clean and obvious API

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:42 PM

#

yea i actually prefer having to create a job struct than this ForEach magic that also increases compile times

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:42 PM

#

Yes

#

btw does anyone know how the execution works for several worlds at the same time? are they executed one after the other?

#

or concurrently?

winter veldt Dec 6, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

yeah you need to be able to learn the magic, not just believe in it without conviction.

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:43 PM

#

The Foreach thing is to save you from the boilerplate, of course there's going to be a tradeoff for codegen

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

like if i have worlds A, B and C

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

I want to see where they go with this. Codegen lets them make really flexible apis, and things like the debugging problem are solvable (assuming they have a way to get debug symbols between the codegen and burst)

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

and they are all 100% independent

#

if i schedule jobs from them, can they execute at the same time? or is it somehow sequential anyway?

#

been trying to figure this out

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

What does it look like on the profiler?

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

I imagine they all just pull from a pool of threads right?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:45 PM

#

@worldly pulsar good question

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

or good answer, it it turns out to show what happens...:)

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

now if the project doesnt take a minute to start with the netcode package in it

#

god im so tired of this lol

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

https://forum.unity.com/threads/burst-new-release-1-2-0-preview-10-we-need-your-feedback.789473/

Unity Forum

[Burst] New release 1.2.0-preview.10, we need your feedback!

Hello,

Today we are pleased to release a new preview version of Burst 1.2.0-preview.10

We were actually expecting to release a stable version a few...

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

Oh, you'll try now? Post the results here @trail burrow

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

support for cross compilation 🤩

#

the next 1.3.0 preview

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

update sequentially

📎 unknown.png

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

Speaking of posting the results @trail burrow have you tried the "Copy subscene SceneReference to another world" method of instantiating subscenes we talked about yesterday?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:50 PM

#

i have not, i kinda ... idk

#

just gave up

#

lol

#

amazing netcode performance

📎 unknown.png

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

That's a lot of fixed updates per frame O_o

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

What are the specs in terms of load here @trail burrow ?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

@tiny ore specs?

#

TR 2950X, 32gb ram

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

no no

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

this is with safety checks off but in editor I guess?

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

Loadwise

#

entity count, what is this doing?

#

Is it the default netcode sample?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

oh this is like

#

eh

#

50 entities?

#

small asteroids sample game

#

it's nothing

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

ok

#

in editor though

#

Give it a proper chance...:) Add a stopwatch on a proper build...

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

speaking of safety checks anyone else find it annoying how every time you start the editor it enables jobsdebugger making things like physics take up twice as much ms

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

Or can't we measure the actual time?

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

so close to being annoyed enough to make an editor script that keeps it disabled

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:53 PM

#

@hollow sorrel this is with safety checks off

📎 unknown.png

#

worse/the same

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

is that actually worse with safety checks bigthonk

#

that is weird

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

this is the netcode sample project

#

from github

#

non modified at all

#

bone stock

#

takes 30 sec to get into, runs like an old dog

#

heres my jobs/burst settings

📎 unknown.png

#

if that matters

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:55 PM

#

turn on synchronous compilation?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:55 PM

#

@amber flicker doesn't matter

#

same thing

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:55 PM

#

weird I saw on the forums they were aware having it off made it v slow for quite a while

#

also leak detection off I guess?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

yes

#

23ms

#

this is the best frame i could find

📎 unknown.png

#

every safety/debugging/etc option is disabled

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

got me curious.. downloading now

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 3:58 PM

#

but considering this is the thread utilization the netcode manages

📎 unknown.png

#

it's not weird maybe

#

lol

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 3:59 PM

#

yea i'm downloading now too

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is this just opening the asteroids scene and hitting play?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:00 PM

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yes

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:01 PM

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📎 unknown.png

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:01 PM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:01 PM

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maybe they have an issue with amd/many cores

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:02 PM

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yeah i have a weird CPU

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:02 PM

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am on i7 8700k

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:02 PM

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Wait so ThreadRipper is 10x slower on this than i7?

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hard to believe 😛

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:03 PM

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yea dunno if it's actually the cause just speculating

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:04 PM

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https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer that's the sample right?

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:04 PM

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yes

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:04 PM

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hmm I don't see anything in the game view other than a red rectangle? that expected?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:04 PM

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for server world yes

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it doesnt render

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:05 PM

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cool - where's the switch to client world?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:05 PM

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entity debugger

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:05 PM

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ta - btw does your perf change if you close the entity debugger?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:06 PM

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no

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:07 PM

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This is what I see.. (old i5)

📎 unknown.png

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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about same as me then

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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playerloop there is 4ms tho

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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~30fps ?

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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editorloop seems to be taking the most

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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yes that sample

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but look at the graph

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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yea the vast majority is 'others'

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:08 PM

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editorloop is the green stuff i think

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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ah

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sorry colors are off

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im also having this issue

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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Need to test this on my machine

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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but yea on fholm's it's playerloop taking a lot of time so idk

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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📎 unknown.png

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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Yea for me it's jumping from 2ms to 6ms per frame, and that's in editor, with safety checks+leak detection on

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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in build

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its using 30% of my 16core/32thread CPU

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for this...

📎 unknown.png

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:09 PM

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on a Ryzen 5 so not an AMD thing

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:10 PM

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I mean... ~4ms on mine isn't exactly great either..

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:10 PM

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for this no it's not

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this is like <0.5ms amount of work

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"performance" by default.

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:10 PM

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well.. it's alpha.. will check it out in a few weeks

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:11 PM

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yeah i know... just so tired of all unfinished stuff, sorry lol

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 4:11 PM

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I think a prototype of something that aims to show performance should, ah, perform... Fine to have a few bugs

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But isn't the whole point to be efficient?

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 4:12 PM

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No, right now they're getting the groundwork in place and letting people see the API

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They've been in the forums specifically saying performance is not good and they're working on it

tiny ore Dec 6, 2019, 4:12 PM

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Ok, fair then

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:12 PM

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yea.. plus.. I guess one feature of all this work is that it's much more optimisable than traditional oop

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like the hybrid renderer.. I think a few days spent by a team will see a lot of perf improvement.. but it's not what they're focused on atm

zenith wyvern Dec 6, 2019, 4:13 PM

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I really wish they would focus more on the renderer, specifically for LWRP

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No one wants to use HDRP for testing this stuff

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:14 PM

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I have no idea why, but it just works for me 😛

📎 unknown.png

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:14 PM

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which editor version?

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i'm on f1

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:14 PM

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f1 here also

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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I'm on b12, this is in Development Build

safe lintel Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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@trail burrow what does the profiler say is taking the most time for that?

amber flicker Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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ah I was looking in editor

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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@safe lintel profiler wont connect to the build for some reason

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@safe lintel here's the in-editor profiling

📎 Unity_2019-12-06_16-59-20.png

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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In editor, with all the safety stuff still on I saw ~3x the times

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:15 PM

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that is editor with no safety

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that screenshot

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thats the best frame i saw

worldly pulsar Dec 6, 2019, 4:16 PM

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so may be b12 vs f1 ?

trail burrow Dec 6, 2019, 4:16 PM

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possibly

hollow sorrel Dec 6, 2019, 4:17 PM

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timboc said 4ms on f1