#archived-networking | Official Unity Discord | Page 60

high finch Jan 20, 2020, 1:06 PM

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PUN

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Photon Unity Engine

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You can make it with dedi servers, or p2p hosting.

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Watch out for p2p hosting, because you can have things like host hacking which is not fun for your playerbase.

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So dedi is the safest option, but p2p hosting is the easiest option.

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afaik

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 1:29 PM

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yeah, but for now we use p2p because dedicated server are to expensive

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so for p2p is only need the Photon Engine the PUN services ( https://www.photonengine.com/en-US/PUN )

Photon Unity 3D Networking Framework SDKs and Game Backend | Photo...

Photon Unity Networking framework for realtime multiplayer games and applications with no punchthrough issues. Export to all Unity supported platforms, no matter what Unity license you have!

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right?

gleaming prawn Jan 20, 2020, 1:56 PM

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@versed rock you could use PUN, yes, but for these kinds of games Photon Quantum is the recommended solution (we do have a few customers who have exactly that kind of game implemented with Quantum).

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Disclaimer: I work at Photon, specifically on the core team who develops Quantum.

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You can try this game: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wolffun.herostrike&hl=en

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This is made with Quantum, including the AI for the Bots (using our AI SDK, etc)

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 1:59 PM

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quanton don't have the free tier right?

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only 1 free month

graceful zephyr Jan 20, 2020, 1:59 PM

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quantum doesn't have anything free, unless you've signed an agreement with us for a trial

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:00 PM

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so with Quantum we need Dedicated servers for more "safe" plays?

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or still need dedicated server

graceful zephyr Jan 20, 2020, 2:03 PM

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No

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You dont

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:03 PM

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It uses the photon servers for its authority over player inputs, but determinism puts all of the heavy lifting on the clients. Determinism removes the need for server simulation since it allows all clients to produce identical sim results.

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Do you guys have any kind of basic docs up to explain the architecture? @graceful zephyr I am sure I explain my understanding of it badly way too often on discord.

graceful zephyr Jan 20, 2020, 2:05 PM

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We do, but it's all private

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:05 PM

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Might be worth making a public FAQ?

graceful zephyr Jan 20, 2020, 2:06 PM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:09 PM

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ok, thanks for the help! i'm going to try the PUN service to make the game work with p2p

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and maybe think in the future migrate to Quantum (we don't have money for now... so we need gain money first hahaha )

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:12 PM

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you don't migrate to quantum though. It is a completely different approach, but not for casuals.

graceful zephyr Jan 20, 2020, 2:13 PM

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migrating to quantum = complete re-write of all game logic

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:15 PM

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PUN is going to be fully interpolated snapshots in most cases, with lots of owner authority

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:15 PM

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ok, so for the next project hahaha

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thanks

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have support for Host migration? between the players?

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:16 PM

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So its going to be nice and easy for some game types, and just impossible for like fast competitive pvp types

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yeah, because of the nature of relay (no authority server, just a client that is picked as the Master) host migration stuff is much easier with PUN

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since all clients are essentially the same. There isn't a change of host, just a change of which client is considered "the final word" if you want there to be a final word on anything

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but its two relay hops away from other players, so its not a true replacement for a server.

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You can though make Server plugins to give the relay some brains

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But the relay is not ever going to be running a Unity physx sim or anything. If you want that, you really are going to want to host a server.

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If this is just a learning how to make a MP exercise, none of this matters much. Just make whatever. Your first attempts are going to be hot garbage. Just have fun.

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:22 PM

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hahah yeah, thanks for the advice

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for now we're going to try PUN and make little project to work with the online and try to create matchs 3vs3

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not focused in the competitive but maybe some arcade plays. We know the p2p problem with the player hacks but well... maybe in the next project use Quantum and fix this problem

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:24 PM

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I'm going to be dropping some Beta stuff I am doing for Exit that extends PUN2 if you would like to play with that @versed rock

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:26 PM

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yeah, thats great, of course

gleaming prawn Jan 20, 2020, 2:44 PM

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@versed rock if you are serious about your game (and you have some prior experience), send us an email to developer@photonengine.com. We can share a deep dive video with you.

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We've set some interesting deals with smaller studios. Worth a try...:)

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With quantum, "host migration" is not needed at all... And we also support server authority for game results, server snapshots for late joiners, etc...

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But of course, you can use PUN/PUN2 at will. Just suggesting that contacting and getting more info doesn't hurt, and it doesn't come with any cost.

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:47 PM

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ok, thanks @gleaming prawn for all info, we're going to make some test and learn more about photon and yeah, maybe we send u email with our experiencie and all information

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:52 PM

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https://www.gafferongames.com/

Is a good place to get familiar with some of the concepts and things you will hear about

Gaffer On Games

Glenn Fiedler's game development and networking articles

versed rock Jan 20, 2020, 2:54 PM

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@jade glacier amazing website, a lot of good content

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 2:55 PM

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Are you able to make the problem go away by sending less?

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I am not familiar enough with LLAPIs error messages to just say

south citrus Jan 20, 2020, 6:09 PM

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I am attempting to use the Mapbox Unity plugin with my Magic Leap One device, however I am getting this issue when I try to build and run: 'HTTPRequestThreaded' does not implement interface member 'IAsyncRequest.RequestType'

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 6:26 PM

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this is a photon pun project, as you can see in the gif the game works perfectly fine for the host, meaning he joins the room, yet the client cannot join the room(which is a scene) and instead is instantiated in the menu. could someone help please?

📎 look_at_this_shit.gif

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:24 PM

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you'll need to isolate that down to the likely code block at fault and paste that code

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otherwise all we can tell you is "You did something wrong"

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:51 PM

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alright

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there are too many lines ill send the file

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i have the script responsible for the actual rooms

📎 Rooms.cs

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public void connectCancelPressed()
    {
        cancelConnectionButt.SetActive(false);
        connectButt.SetActive(true);
        PhotonNetwork.LeaveRoom();
    }
    void createRandomRoom()
    {
        Debug.Log("the createRandomRoom() has been called");
        int randomRoomName = Random.Range(0, 100);
        RoomOptions roomOps = new RoomOptions() { IsVisible = true, IsOpen = true, MaxPlayers = 5 };
        PhotonNetwork.CreateRoom("Room #" + randomRoomName, roomOps);
    }```
and this piece of code in a lobby script that basically is responsible for the menu and getting the player online

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:53 PM

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I would use a bin like hatebin.com

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unless you can keep it short like that yeah

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:54 PM

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hatebin.com?

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:54 PM

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?

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:54 PM

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oh

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:54 PM

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Asking me what a url is? LOL

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:54 PM

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well anyway

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could you look at the code or do you want me to do the hatebin thing

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Did you get a tutorial working first with PUN/PUN2? Usually best to start with some working demo code and tweaking that.

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:55 PM

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yes

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should i send it here?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT6tpgaH_GY&list=PLWeGoBm1YHVgXmitft-0jkvcTVhAtL9vG&index=7

YouTube

Info Gamer

Photon Transform View with Photon PUN 2 in Unity (Part 7)

How to make a Multiplayer Video Game

Discord: https://discord.gg/UaSVbJJ

Here is the next lesson on how to make a multiplayer game in Unity using the Photon 2 plugin. For this lesson, we will be focusing on player movement and synchronizing the transform across the network ...

▶ Play video

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:56 PM

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The file you linked? Nah, not going to open that. If you have isolated it down to a section of code that you are having trouble with, paste it here if its short, or paste it in a bin if its long

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:56 PM

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ok sounds fair

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:56 PM

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That tutorial is what you are trying to follow?

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:57 PM

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yes

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https://hatebin.com/fdgtnaqajh i did something i guess

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:57 PM

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and it was working up until part 7?

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:57 PM

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yep

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it went smooth

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 7:57 PM

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that looks pretty boilerplate at a glance

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 7:58 PM

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GWjiangPepeThumb

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so any ideas?

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:01 PM

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I'm only half here. But I am not sure what you have isolated down to being the problem.

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When you hit connect there is some camera weirdness visible in your little gif

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but I have no idea what is supposed to happen, vs what happened

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:02 PM

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well

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i explained in the gif

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but if you didnt understand what is supposed to happen, both the users should go to the same room which is the room the user on the left was in

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in the gif the second user was instantiated in the menu

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it is not supposed to happen

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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I'm not seeing the code in your hatebin that shows how the UI should be getting hidden

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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oh

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that's a different script

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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LoadLevel?

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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ill send it here

narrow oriole Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 PM

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@near cairn I think your daily quota exhausted

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:05 PM

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@narrow oriole the fuck is a daily quota

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:05 PM

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I have a pretty finite amount of time, which is why its best to REALLY isolate down your issues to a part that doesn't make sense to you

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otherwise you are asking people who are mid work on their own project to read your entire project and try to guess where its breaking

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Others in the chan may be following too

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:06 PM

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ok ill put only the suspicious parts

narrow oriole Jan 20, 2020, 8:06 PM

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@near cairn first step would be to stop swearing

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:06 PM

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but I'm more useful for things like "why doesn't this method call do what its supposed to do"... less "Why my thing no worky"

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:06 PM

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@narrow oriole ok sorry if i insulted you

narrow oriole Jan 20, 2020, 8:07 PM

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No, you did not insult me. The point is to talk adequately

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Anyway, if you can isolate down the actual point of failure, might be able to help

narrow oriole Jan 20, 2020, 8:08 PM

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You are getting premium support here for 0$ / hour

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:08 PM

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post what its supposed to do, what it is doing instead... and where in the execution it goes off the rails

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It looks like its supposed to change scenes or something, and is not

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Do you need autoSyncScenes or something? I forget the name of the var.

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:10 PM

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//should make ui go yes and also makes a room, i believe this is the source of fail. probably the createRandomRoom().

public override void OnConnectedToMaster()
    {
        Debug.Log("user has connected to the photon servers");
        statusReport = "user has connected to the photon servers";
        connectButt.SetActive(true);
    }

    public void connectPressed()
    {
        PhotonNetwork.JoinRandomRoom();
        connectButt.SetActive(false);
        cancelConnectionButt.SetActive(true);
    }
    public void connectCancelPressed()
    {
        cancelConnectionButt.SetActive(false);
        connectButt.SetActive(true);
        PhotonNetwork.LeaveRoom();
    }
    void createRandomRoom()
    {
        Debug.Log("the createRandomRoom() has been called");
        int randomRoomName = Random.Range(0, 100);
        RoomOptions roomOps = new RoomOptions() { IsVisible = true, IsOpen = true, MaxPlayers = 5 };
        PhotonNetwork.CreateRoom("Romm #" + randomRoomName, roomOps);
    }

//there is this part in the rooms script too that should laod the player into the next scene which is the onlineScene.

public override void OnJoinedRoom()
    {
        base.OnJoinedRoom();
        Debug.Log("user has joined");
        if (!PhotonNetwork.IsMasterClient)
        {
            return;
        }
        startGame();
    }
    void startGame()
    {
        Debug.Log("loading level");
        PhotonNetwork.LoadLevel(onlineScene);
    }```

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@jade glacier exactly it is supposed to change scenes for both users

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yet for the client it diddnt

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:12 PM

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{
    /// this makes sure we can use PhotonNetwork.LoadLevel() on the master client and all clients in the same room sync their level automatically
    PhotonNetwork.AutomaticallySyncScene = true;
}```

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miss that from the tutorial maybe?

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:13 PM

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alright

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i dont think he had this line in his code

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in which script do i put it?

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i dont think he had this line in his code

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in which script do i put it?

jade glacier Jan 20, 2020, 8:14 PM

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maybe not, something else might be in there to force that

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Dunno

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Not my set of scripts

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Any awake would do it, its all before the networking starts

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as long as its on a scene object

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heading out, gl

near cairn Jan 20, 2020, 8:18 PM

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yep

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that worked

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thanks man

vestal siren Jan 21, 2020, 1:03 AM

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Hey guys, I am trying to poll the state of a physical RGB wifi bulb. I have the code working, but not well. How it works is I send a TCP packet to an IP address which gets a return message about it's on/off state, color, etc. I decrypt this message and update a sprite's color based on the message received.

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The problem is any time I try to do this more than 1 time a second, the whole program slows down.

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In a command console, I can poll the state of these LED wifi bulbs ~20 times a second with no problem.

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But I must be doing something wrong in Unity.

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Would anyone like to take a crack at it?

weak plinth Jan 21, 2020, 2:37 AM

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Hello, pretty new to networking & ECS. I'm following the "Getting Started" section for Unity NetCode 0.0.4, and everything appears to connect & show up in the Entity Debugger. The issue is that the mesh isn't being rendered, and input doesn't move the player. Any help would be appreciated.

graceful zephyr Jan 21, 2020, 8:13 AM

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@weak plinth If you are new to networking, using the new NetCode isn't the way to go, it's basically alpha quality and super early, full of bugs, etc.

weak plinth Jan 21, 2020, 11:54 AM

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@fholm Thanks for the advice. I'll see about finding another solution.

stray scroll Jan 21, 2020, 3:35 PM

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@weak plinth Mesh isn't rendering is most likely that you don't have HybridRendering package installed, or that the position of the rendered object is off screen by your input ^^

elfin hare Jan 21, 2020, 4:29 PM

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Hello, does anyone know of a way to properly run two editors of the same project that are synced for testing multiplayer? I tried googling around but most posts seem to be from before 2013. Constantly building the project to test a few lines of code is very bothersome. Thanks!

jade glacier Jan 21, 2020, 4:50 PM

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There are a couple options for that, but I haven't used them and I am forgetting their names.

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I lean pretty heavily on Debug.LogError() to get things to show on builds - to avoid that two editor thing.

gray pond Jan 21, 2020, 6:10 PM

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@elfin hare Two projects with one having folder junctions to key folders in the other. Depending on which networking package you're using, you may need to be careful which folders are junctioned, e.g. don't go all hamfisted and do one junction of the entire project. Hand pick folders inside Assets that need to stay in sync.

elfin hare Jan 21, 2020, 6:13 PM

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alright, thanks

floral turtle Jan 21, 2020, 6:31 PM

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@elfin hare I describe in detail how to do it here: https://forum.unity.com/threads/official-multiplayer-improvements.390823/page-3#post-3013017

Unity Forum

Unity Multiplayer - [Official] Multiplayer Improvements

Suggestion for UNET devs (and Unity in general):

Totally agree! That is one of my big takeaways from working with Unity. Everything feels like it was...

elfin hare Jan 22, 2020, 1:23 AM

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@floral turtle Thanks! this works really well

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made testing much less tedious

grizzled dagger Jan 22, 2020, 10:41 PM

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Hey. I'm starting the development of a multiplayer game nowadays. Following the Unity chart on how to decide the networking technology, I came up with Netcode + Transport. Is this anywhere close to be production ready? Shall I look for other solutions such as Photon or SpatialOS? I'm afraid that in the middle of the development Unity will launch Netcode production ready version and my project'll get inmediatly deprecated.

jade glacier Jan 22, 2020, 11:00 PM

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I would give yourself a few weeks to make tutorials on a bunch of the options

vital hawk Jan 22, 2020, 11:56 PM

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@grizzled dagger give it year or two

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or three

long glade Jan 23, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Is there anyone that would be willihng to hoop in a call and help me with the basics of unity just to be nice

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 10:58 AM

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@vital hawk You serious? So I should go for another external solution? They say that they want it to be prod ready this spring.

tulip wharf Jan 23, 2020, 11:15 AM

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@grizzled dagger there are extremely slim chances the new DOTS networking solution is going to be anywhere production ready even in next 1 year , going by current state of released packages and discussions on forums. would love to be surprised though.

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 11:24 AM

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Damn... So I'd better go with Photon or similars, right?

stray scroll Jan 23, 2020, 12:46 PM

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@grizzled dagger Where does it say that it will be production ready this spring? From their chart which was released last summer they said you should stick with NetCode if you release 2020 Q3+

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 1:13 PM

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Not spring, sorry, I missread. Q3+, yeah.

gleaming prawn Jan 23, 2020, 1:37 PM

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@grizzled dagger you know that blog post is a PR thing, right?

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 2:22 PM

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Yeah, sure. I just expected such an important information (to decide which technology to use on a new project) to be trueish.

gleaming prawn Jan 23, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Take everything with a grain of salt.

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(including whatever I say)
There are several nice devs here in this channel.. you'll get good advice.

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 2:25 PM

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Okay, thanks for the advice.

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

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There is a lot to get your head around with game networking before even worrying about the now DOTS stuff. I would give yourself a little time to run tutorials on the 3rd party options just to get your head around the concepts like snap interpolation, determinism, lockstep, server vs client authority, hosting, punchthrough, relays, etc etc.

In the end it is less about picking a library, and more about understanding the different architecture choices you have to make use of.

gleaming prawn Jan 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

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So, IMHO that blog post is not to be taken seriously... The advice there is just not very correct...:)

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

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That blog post is bizarre at best

gleaming prawn Jan 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

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I'm being polite...

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

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LOL

gleaming prawn Jan 23, 2020, 2:50 PM

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We all know that blog post has been subject of very "interesting" debates...

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 2:51 PM

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Someone was just tasked with "how do we make all of this seem intentional?"

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 3:14 PM

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void Awake()
    {
        nick = GetComponent<Text>();
        nick.text = "User #" + PhotonNetwork.NickName;
    }```
i get the error, but i have no idea how to fix it. what i want to happen is the nick.text there will be set to the string and the nickname of the player, i have already set the nickname in another script but for some reason it doesnt work.

📎 unknown.png

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is the PhotonNetwork.NickName even the nickname of the user or am i not getting something

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 3:18 PM

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What part is null? debug to make sure you actually found 'text'

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 3:18 PM

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oh

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the Nickname

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 3:19 PM

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PhotonNetwork can't be null as far as I know

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 3:19 PM

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it's a public i've already set it in the editor

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 3:19 PM

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and Nickname returning null should just print nothing

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 3:19 PM

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interesting

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 3:23 PM

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I would throw a bunch of debugs in before that to isolate the actual null problem

grizzled dagger Jan 23, 2020, 3:33 PM

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Ok, @jade glacier and @gleaming prawn , thanks.

gray pond Jan 23, 2020, 3:52 PM

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Is that code appropriate in Awake?

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 4:12 PM

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Pretty sure not

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Nickname is just a non-unique convenience name for the player... unlikely has any meaning yet during Awake

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Following the code path, it leads to LocalPlayer.Nickname

LocalPlayer is never null, but will be invalid if not in a room yet. So as long as your connection is to a room... it should be fine.

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 4:18 PM

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ill try putting it in update

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 4:51 PM

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Update would happen every screen refresh... Probably not what you want either. Just needs to happen after OnJoinRoom callback happens

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 5:12 PM

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not the best option in my case

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 5:55 PM

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anyway ill leave nicknames for now i dont really need it

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void OnCollisionEnter(Collision collision)
    {    
        Destroy(gameObject);
        HealthLogic hpL = collision.gameObject.GetComponent<HealthLogic>();
        if(hpL != null)
        {
            hpL.hp--;
        }
    }

currently i have a major problem, there is this bullet logic piece of code that i have been trying to get to work, the problem is that the bullet is getting removed while the clients are in the room and everything is amazing, however when new clients join the room almost every single bullet instantiated in the room since the start of the game and well was removed for everyone that was in the room is not removed for them(the new clients that joined the room). so then bullets are just instantiated for the new clients and they get damaged without the other clients seeing that, this unsychronizes the game for the clients and some may see the new clients dead while others see them alive.

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i have tried doing PhotonNetwork.Destroy(); istead but it returns identical results

stray scroll Jan 23, 2020, 6:43 PM

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Sounds like you're not handling the damage/death logic on the authoring Client, and that you are buffering the spawn of bullets to be created for other players?

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 7:10 PM

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i did not understand a single thing of what you just said.

weak plinth Jan 23, 2020, 7:11 PM

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Anyone knows how to get the jobindex in a ICollisionEventsJob to fill the needs for EntityCommandBuffer.Current

📎 unknown.png

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wrong group sorr

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y

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 7:20 PM

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@stray scroll can you simplify what you said? t

stray scroll Jan 23, 2020, 8:21 PM

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@near cairn If you're checking on all clients for collision between bullet and character, they will mismatch if not everything is run deterministically, which by using normal photon it wont by default. So you'll have to handle all such logic on one client that is "main client".

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 8:43 PM

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@stray scroll and how do i do that?

stray scroll Jan 23, 2020, 8:46 PM

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I think it something like checking if PhotonPlayer.isMasterClient

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 8:46 PM

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I would advise against making bullets into network objects regardless

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Unless these bullets are ai and are going to be doing something super not-deterministic.. treat them just as events

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 8:49 PM

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@stray scroll that is really confusing, why would i add that proprety to a bullet

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 8:49 PM

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I just opened up the early beta for a library I am making for Exit that does a lot of this stuff for you, if you want to give that a shot @near cairn

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Or if anyone else for that matter would like an invite to the discord

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 8:50 PM

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what do you mean by "library"

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 8:51 PM

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like PUN2 is a library

stray scroll Jan 23, 2020, 8:51 PM

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@near cairn You would check if the localPlayer is the master client, and then allow destruction of net entities. But listen to emotitron, I've not used photon for some years and barely remembers the stuff.

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 8:51 PM

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this is MORE PUN2

near cairn Jan 23, 2020, 8:51 PM

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GWjiangoNoice

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ill think about it but rn i wanna stick to what i have

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also if not adding a network proprety to the bullet what would you suggest eme to do

jade glacier Jan 23, 2020, 8:54 PM

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making them events

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deterministic events... just send a message along with the transform sync saying "Fire Weapon X"

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If all clients are getting the players transform info along with the fire command... then its basically deterministic. Just make the bullet on non-authority versions cosmetic (it doesn't try to do any damage calcs)

wooden swan Jan 24, 2020, 6:41 AM

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How to use unet? This is what I have

networkManager.matchMaker.CreateMatch(roomName, roomSize, true, "");

gleaming prawn Jan 24, 2020, 8:49 AM

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What's unet? Unet's dead baby, unet's dead...

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Maybe you should take a look at Mirror @wooden swan

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That is an open source evolution of unet that is in active development

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 9:17 AM

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Would grouping data by predicted and interpolated, or by it's smaller context be a better approach for ECS? I see DotsSample does by the first, but not sure if it's just lazyness x)

graceful zephyr Jan 24, 2020, 10:43 AM

#

what do you mean by smaller context @stray scroll ?

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

Like for the more specific context, like movementData

graceful zephyr Jan 24, 2020, 10:44 AM

#

using the networking model of unitys dots networking, you will usually have A LOT of interpolated and A FEW predicted entities

#

for w/e that's worth

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 10:45 AM

#

So either stack up Components into one PredictedComponent & InterpolatedComponent or keep them seperated as e.g MovementData, AnimationData, TeleportData, ParentData etc

graceful zephyr Jan 24, 2020, 10:45 AM

#

oh, eh

#

separated for sure

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 10:58 AM

#

@graceful zephyr Hmm, how come so sure? Wouldn't all data be checked in their network system for changes, so iteration there would be faster?

graceful zephyr Jan 24, 2020, 10:58 AM

#

you'll get better perf by going through each type of data in chunks, instead of trying to go through all data at once

#

i.e. do all Movement, then all Animation, etc.

#

instead of doing MovementAnimation at once

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

Yeah, for all the normal game logic, but for network. Just quickly checked e.g.

    public void CopyToSnapshot(ArchetypeChunk chunk, int ent, uint tick, ref CharacterSnapshotData snapshot, GhostSerializerState serializerState)
    {
        snapshot.tick = tick;
        var chunkDataCharacterStateComponentData = chunk.GetNativeArray(ghostCharacterStateComponentDataType);
        var chunkDataCharacterParentData = chunk.GetNativeArray(ghostCharacterParentDataType);
        var chunkDataClientIdData = chunk.GetNativeArray(ghostClientIdDataType);
        var chunkDataRotation = chunk.GetNativeArray(ghostRotationType);
        var chunkDataTranslation = chunk.GetNativeArray(ghostTranslationType);
        snapshot.SetCharacterStateComponentDataState(chunkDataCharacterStateComponentData[ent].State, serializerState);
        snapshot.SetCharacterParentDatashipParentID(chunkDataCharacterParentData[ent].shipParentID, serializerState);
        snapshot.SetClientIdDataClientID(chunkDataClientIdData[ent].ClientID, serializerState);
        snapshot.SetRotationValue(chunkDataRotation[ent].Value, serializerState);
        snapshot.SetTranslationValue(chunkDataTranslation[ent].Value, serializerState);
    }

This will cause jumps in memory, if structured as one component for data that is interpolated, this would be linear in memory, but then the normal game logic would suffer some...

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 11:07 AM

#

@jade glacier sorry for replying just today i got really tired to do all this stuff yesterday

#

but anyway im really confused

#

i just recorded what happens when a new client joins the game

📎 look_at_this_shit.gif

#

it's not all bullets that were instantiated

#

but some appeared

#

and i have no idea how to fix it

#

📎 unknown.png

#

i have also read what you told me

#

i dont understand what you mean by "events"

#

i left the script the same except i replace "Destroy()" with "PhotonNetwork.Destroy()"

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 11:17 AM

#

If you don't go by events you have to be sure your current running application is the masterClient.
so
if(masterClient && bullet.collided)
// Destroy object

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

yes exactly that's the thing

#

the bullet doesnt really belong to anyone

#

so who am i refering to as the master client

#

you like that?

if (!PhotonNetwork.IsMasterClient)
        {
            return;
        }```

#

i tried doing o but the result is the same

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 11:47 AM

#

Are you sure you're not doing the destroy somewhere else then as well?

#

I would try do a print/log on PhotonNetwork.IsMasterClient to see that it is different

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 11:53 AM

#

im doing it in the bullet logic script

#

there are no more errors but the problem is still there

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 12:03 PM

#

do
if(PhotonNetwork.IsMasterClient)
Debug.Log("Is master");
else
Debug.Log("Is not master");

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 12:06 PM

#

alright

#

same results

#

i mean obviously it's working

#

for clients it's saying is not client and for the host im pretty sure it is

#

not the host the master client

#

oh hold up

#

i see what you are doing

#

nope nevermind

#

i have an idea though

#

i could try deleting all the bullet prefabs for the client when he joins

#

actually no nevermind

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

Ah, ok, I think it might be that the bullets are spawned by the non master players then?

wanton scroll Jan 24, 2020, 1:00 PM

#

Anyone used Pun2 to make ranked matchmaking? How did you go about it?

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 1:05 PM

#

@stray scroll yes exactly the bullets are instantiated for the players that join and for the players that are already in the room everything is fine meaning that the game goes smooth and the bullets are not instantiated from nowhere

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 1:37 PM

#

@near cairn 1st: what I might be saying is not true since I don't sit with photon anymore , but I think you need to destroy them with the client that spawned them, else you'll get error and it wont despawn on everyone.
2nd; it is better if you let the master client be the one that spawns the bullets and handles the collision logic so people can't cheat,
3d; it is even better to create RPC to spawn bullet locally instead, and still only let master client be allowed to handle collision that affects death

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 1:39 PM

#

so what you are saying is to let the master client to handle the room?

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

Depends what you mean by "handle the room"

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

all the logic

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

@stray scroll i tried doing the third option using rpc

#

i've learnt a little but i am dont know how to construct it

stray scroll Jan 24, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

@near cairn https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/pun/v2/gameplay/rpcsandraiseevent

RPCs and RaiseEvent | Photon Engine

Photon Unity Networking framework for realtime multiplayer games and applications with no punchthrough issues. Export to all Unity supported platforms, no matter what Unity license you have!

jade glacier Jan 24, 2020, 8:28 PM

#

Need to sort out why my capture is all jacked up first

#

@near cairn The SNS beta for PUN2 has built in handling for projectiles you might want to look at for ideas, or just use the library itself.

📎 2020-01-24_15-33-35.mp4

#

Not sure why my screen capture video plays all jerky here though,.

near cairn Jan 24, 2020, 8:42 PM

#

awwwww

#

i didnt download the demos

#

well ill do it tormorrow

gleaming prawn Jan 24, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

SNS is not a demo

#

is an extension to PUN2 developed by emotritron himself AFAIK

jade glacier Jan 24, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

The SNS lib has a demo scene, but it's not part of PUN2, it's an extension of the pun library. So it can work alongside existing pun2 project code. Ideally though you would move to using its timings and callbacks rather than mix the two.

#

It's not officially released, but the beta I posted works and is available to use.

jade glacier Jan 24, 2020, 10:14 PM

#

I can't post links here, so you need to ping me if you want the discord invite.

near cairn Jan 25, 2020, 12:08 PM

#

@jade glacier i guess i got no other option

toxic lintel Jan 25, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

for a v simple multiplayer game where a bunch of people just have the ability to move around a map as a beginner project

#

should i use network manager?

#

and is this even worth learning since the thing is going to be removed soon?

jade wharf Jan 25, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

If you are looking for something similar to UNET

#

go look at Mirror on github

#

They even have their own discord for mirror specific questions

nova kindle Jan 25, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

Hi, I am looking do do a small real-time Multiplayer game with a dedicated server. Do I need to make a unity project for the server or can I make a .Net Core console app ? I don't know how to make the server authoritative without Unity (collision check, ray-tracing...)

weak plinth Jan 25, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

@nova kindle You can in theory run Unity as headless

nova kindle Jan 25, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

whats the impact on the performances of having Unity in headless vs a console app ? For a top down isometric shooter

#

in other words, is unity decently optimized for handling the server side or should I go for something else to check collisions in a 2D environment ?

little snow Jan 26, 2020, 1:25 PM

#

I am guessing this is the right channel for this. My question is: how would one hook up a completely custom made c# server to unity. I found a tutorial on how to make a server using just c# and looks pretty performant, and because it can be made along side c# form, I can make it really user friendly so any one can set up a server. The problem is I don't know how I would connect something like that to unity. First thing that comes to mind would be a basic system were the server right the needed infomation into a text document then Unity extracts that infomation from that exact same document. Though I am guessing that this system would quite slow and/or low performance. Am I right and how if so, how else would I connect unity to the custom made server? P.S. i am a noob with servers and frankly I don't really know what I am doing, so help would be appreciated

novel heron Jan 26, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

Hey everyone! So, I'm completely new to this side of unity and basically know nothing... I've been trying to connect two mobile devices through wifi, so that I can send data between them. My first thought was that one would create a room and the other could join but I have no clue how to start investigating all of this. Any tips please??

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

im having this problem with photon. I have a script that gets me into a game or lets me host one all controlled by one button, and it worcks just fine, no errors or anything. but after I relesed a new build of the game both player will create a room insted of joiningeachother. please help.

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

I would run tutorials for a few of the net libs to get comfortable with the concepts @novel heron

#

@little talon hard set a region

#

In settings

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

ok thx

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

Editor tends to connect to oddball regions

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

ok, what value should i put in

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Where are you?

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

North Amarica

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

us

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Canada

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

us

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

oh

#

ok

#

thx for the help

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

That did it?

little talon Jan 26, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

yes

jade glacier Jan 26, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

👍

white berry Jan 26, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

Hi, I want to use UNet just for testing (I know it won't be supported for long anymore). I want to get playerpref position and enable it from the Host. And then sync that position to the other Clients aswell. How would I be able to do this?

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 5:44 AM

#

how do i use rpc functions to destroy objects? i tried several ways yet everything euther is just not working either returns an error

wanton scroll Jan 27, 2020, 7:48 AM

#

I have a question about how to design some PUN2 stuff. My game is only 1v1. Right now if I fail to find a open room based on matchmaking parameters I create a new room in OnJoinRandomFailed() but what do I do about lobbies? Right now I create a lobby with a set name when the client connects to master. But do I need to create more lobbies if my game mode does not change or what?

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 8:13 AM

#

Is Photon Bolt p2p?

#

So far all i could find was it is, but techniqually it isnt

stiff ridge Jan 27, 2020, 8:49 AM

#

@near cairn In which networking solution?

#

@wanton scroll : You don't have to use lobbies at all. If you don't define any specific, the default one will be used. You don't even have to join a lobby to use it.

#

@stable epoch : Photon Bolt (by default) uses the Photon Cloud for matchmaking and as fallback but as soon as clients are in a room / match, they automatically attempt to establish direct connections.

wanton scroll Jan 27, 2020, 8:54 AM

#

@stiff ridge but I'm using the sql lobby type so that I can have ranked matchmaking.

stiff ridge Jan 27, 2020, 8:58 AM

#

@wanton scroll : Ok, yes, then you need to define that. But you don't have to distribute rooms into many lobbies for a long long time.

wanton scroll Jan 27, 2020, 8:58 AM

#

thanks that's what I was asking cause I could not find a room limit on the Pun2 docs 😄

stiff ridge Jan 27, 2020, 8:59 AM

#

The MaxPlayers setting is in the CreateRoomOptions class. It's just a wrapper for the various parameters that create room needs.

#

It may also make sense to close and or hide a room, when it's full / being played. Just use the Room properties for that.

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 9:21 AM

#

direct connections.
@stiff ridge Noob question, but just to clarify this does mean P2P right?

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 9:43 AM

#

Not exactly Jinxie... What do you mean by P2P (this is a loose definition)

#

You can say PUN is also P2P in that the LOGIC control is P2P (the server is "just" a relay)

#

Bolt is "p2P" (most of the time) in that clients connect to another game client (listen server)... BUT

#

This is only true if you are using Bolt with client-hosted games.... Bolt can also be used by running unity-headless instances as 100% server-authoritative hosts...

#

Then it's not "p2p" anymore... see?

#

Also, even the client-to-client connections still rely on the photon servers for:

matchmaking
punch through signaling (+ stun servers for reflexive address queries);
connection fallback (in case punch through fails, which happens in about 10-15% of the cases).

#

reliable background communication channel for any custom use.

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 10:12 AM

#

@stiff ridge what do you mean by solution

#

api?

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 10:21 AM

#

Which exact networking SDK, PUN classic, PUN2, etc?

#

I think Tobi didn't follow your previous questions.

#

All of them, I mean

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 10:30 AM

#

pun 2

stiff ridge Jan 27, 2020, 10:37 AM

#

how do i use rpc functions to destroy objects? i tried several ways yet everything euther is just not working either returns an error
In PUN, I would suggest to use PhotonNetwork.Instantiate and PhotonNetwork.Destroy.
Handling object lifetime with RPCs is possible but more manual work.

#

More in the docs: https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/pun/v2/gameplay/instantiation

Instantiation | Photon Engine

Photon Unity Networking framework for realtime multiplayer games and applications with no punchthrough issues. Export to all Unity supported platforms, no matter what Unity license you have!

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 10:39 AM

#

@stiff ridge i tried doing so but when new clients.join the object i s instantiated again

#

like when i shoot a bullet in the room and a new client joins it some bullets i shot are instantiated for the new client but not for me

#

so then i might take damage for him but for me everything is fine

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 11:45 AM

#

@stiff ridge do you know how to fix this?

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 12:31 PM

#

@gleaming prawn I dont mind using servers for matchmaking. But since i am making a fighting game (mobile 2D 1v1) I dont want server between them during battle, I want the connection between the players as fast as possible.

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 12:32 PM

#

It will always be as fast as POSSIBLE

#

BUT, for a fighting game, I'd argue that Quantum is the best approach

#

Which is exactly "rollback-netcode"

#

Bolt is not really well suited for a fighting game...

stiff ridge Jan 27, 2020, 12:34 PM

#

@near cairn For bullets, you should send the RPCs with the info "I shot (when, where and in which direction). Such an RPC should spawn bullets temporarily but they should be cleaned up on hit or after a specified time.
Sending a "clean up bullet" RPC as well, is too much work quickly.
Joining users will initially get everyone's hitpoints and then subsequently new shots. No need to show bullets for shots that have been shot a while ago (and neither is there a need for explicit network messages to cleanup).

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 12:39 PM

#

@gleaming prawn This option looks like primarily dedicated servers

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:39 PM

#

@near cairn it doesn't look like you accepted the photonengine discord invite. You can still grab the SNS beta there that literally handles all of this for you.

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 12:43 PM

#

@gleaming prawn Plus, holy crap, that service is really expensive

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 12:48 PM

#

Do you think so? 🙂

#

How much would it cost the salary of a good developer to code a rollback solution for you from scratch?

#

And no, it's not primarily dedicated servers (although quantum also include the option of running simulation on servers)

#

I suggest you read a bit about Fighting Game networking... It's a very very deep subject.

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:52 PM

#

@jade glacier i did but i remember getting alot of errors

#

@stiff ridge how do i make such an rpc? i know how to do the direction, and how do i make an rpc temporeral

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

With SNS? @near cairn

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

@gleaming prawn
Tbh a basic rollback system isnt that hard to set up. Ive done it before. I just have no idea how to 2 player P2P on mobile. xD

Honestly youd need to be AAA to even scrape those prices and get a profit. And even if it did, it would be paying waaay cheaper just to get a team again.

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

@jade glacier i got errors on the demo game

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

#

I would be very curious what those were and how you got them.

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

#

lmao ill have to download everything again

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

#

It's meant to be pretty bullet proof

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

#

ill do it in a moment

#

but you did this extension somehow right?

#

i want to know how you did that

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:58 PM

#

I make the SNS lib yeah

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

yes

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

I am working for Exit to build it

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

wdym

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 1:00 PM

#

Exit makes and runs Photon Engine

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 1:00 PM

#

ok

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

They are the ones who own quantum/pun2/bolt

#

Phone typing atm

near cairn Jan 27, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

so you used exit to make a pun2 extension

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 1:02 PM

#

Not so much used to make... More it extends PUN2

#

The basis is Simple Network Sync, which is an asset that works with a bunch of HLAPIS @near cairn

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

@stable epoch if you are familiar with the requirements for determinism + rollback netcode... then I'd argue that the cheapest option (that will guarantee 100% connection) would be to skip Bolt/PUN/Quantum altogether

#

And just go for Photon Realtime (native version also offers PUNCH)

#

So you have guaranteed P2P communication (logically speaking), and you can rollout your own rollback on top just fine...

#

Alternatively, if it was for PC, Steam Network would be enought (but for mobile, guaranteed connections and cheap, photon realtime - starts with free plan)

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 1:14 PM

#

Yeah the thing with mobile, is the Apple and Android work differently with networking, especially when someone uses data. So i just thought i guess ill use Photon or something.
I found an open source thing which is Photon but free and use your own servers but its got no P2P support.

gleaming prawn Jan 27, 2020, 1:32 PM

#

Photon Realtime C# has no PUNCH through... But it is P2P in the sense that you send messages between the clients

#

Photon Realtime NATIVE has embedded Punch Through

#

If you have a rollback solution, you should NOT need punch through though...

#

https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/realtime/current/getting-started/realtime-intro

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

Im confused the difference between the different Photon services. Like Bolt seems like the P2P option but it also does dedicated servers and half the other things can do P2P

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

Bolt is based on the architecture of CS:GO, so it's very much standard server auth with snapshot interpolation at its core

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 2:31 PM

#

I dont know anything about CSGO

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

Counter-strike

stable epoch Jan 27, 2020, 2:53 PM

#

I know what CSGO is

#

Just dont know anything about the game

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

Hi

#

Anyone who can help me with a small thing for UNet

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

Best to just ask your question.

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

I want to make a nameplate. The only problem is, the host is not getting the nameplate of the other players. But the other players are getting all the nameplates from the other players

#

I'll support this with a screen

#

Host:

📎 unknown.png

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

Not just using a syncvar?

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:27 PM

#

i do

#

Player 2:

📎 unknown.png

#

playerNameText.text = playerProf.playerName;

#

[SyncVar] public string playerName = "Name";

#

2nd one is from my playerprof script

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:30 PM

#

You will need to make use of a hook probably

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:30 PM

#

        {
            return;
        }

        playerName = PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name");```

#

why does the host not update the 2nd player. But the 2nd player does update the host

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:31 PM

#

I would need to see the entire script

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:32 PM

#

ok 1 sec

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:32 PM

#

Without a hook, you need to tell the UI to apply that syncvar value manually after connect

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

https://pastebin.com/GBfvm2HA

Pastebin

PlayerName Script: using System.Collections; using System.Collec...

#

will the hook automatically do that? Apply the syncvar

#

@jade glacier

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

When it changes

#

It accts like a property

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:39 PM

#

What is the easiest way.

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

playerNameText.text = playerProf.playerName; seems odd

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

I appears that the host wont update when someone connects

#

why?

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

The misspelling for one

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

i just made that quick

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

That you are setting the gui using a preference rather than the sync var

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

I thought this was how its meant to be

#

Watching brackeys tutorial

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 10:43 PM

#

Not sure what it's trying to do, but that all seems very wrong

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 10:43 PM

#

well its working for the 2nd player xD

#

How would I make it right?

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

Just with a synvar with a hook

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

the hook is for if something changes

#

but on start it just pulls the name from a playerpref

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

What does? The player?

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

the script

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

Only the server can set them

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

playerName = PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name");

#

playerNameText.text = playerProf.playerName;

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

So you would need to send a command from player to server to set it

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

maybe

#

but that still lets me wonder why its working for 2nd player

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

Is it?

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Yeah

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Or is it just pulling the local pref?

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

no

#

because when I change the name on the host. It's visible for the 2nd player

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Yeah

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

SyncVar is updating automatically for new client i read

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Host is server

#

It can change syncvar

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

So the name is visible for the client

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

Clients cannot

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

but the host doesnt get it

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

The host has it, it sets it

#

You may not be executing code to apply the changed syncvar locally to the ui

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

idk why it doesnt work

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

Have you debugged it to see where?

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

If the host changes the name, it appears on the client

#

but if the client joins the name doesnt appear on host, and neither if client changes it

#

I simply just want to fix it

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

You really need to go do more tutorials to get the execution and such

#

I would use mirror and join their channel

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

On the client its working perfectly

#

📎 unknown.png

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

    {
        if (!isLocalPlayer)
        {
            return;
        }``` that is telling the owner to not do any thing

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

why would it

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

It needs to be told to copy the new value to the UI somewhere

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

it copies the new value to the UI for the Client

#

the Host is also a localplayer right

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

No

#

Host and local player have different meaning

#

You really need to go read up on Mirror/HLAPI a bit more. You can't guess your way through those apis

#

Join the mirror Chan

white berry Jan 27, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

So I figured, the clients only see the name of the host

#

Prob bec the host sends his SyncVar to the players

jade glacier Jan 27, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

Server can set syncvars yeah

#

This why players need to send a command in OnStartLocalPlayer

hushed igloo Jan 28, 2020, 2:13 AM

#

'm

low anchor Jan 28, 2020, 11:07 AM

#

Hello, I'm new to unity networking, where can i find a tutorial with the new api?

stray scroll Jan 28, 2020, 11:15 AM

#

Dont' think there is much tutorial on the new NetCode, there is a quickstart and sampels here https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer. Nor is it close to finished or production ready, and many would discourage you to use it yet : )

#

If you're not going to use DOTS, I would recommend looking into Mirror or Photon.

low anchor Jan 28, 2020, 11:43 AM

#

I'm looking for external servers

#

Which one has them

#

Also i don't like photon...

stiff ridge Jan 28, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

Maybe this helps: https://forum.unity.com/threads/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-available-network-solutions-assets.609088/

Unity Forum

Unity Multiplayer - What are the pros and cons of available networ...

I'm wanting to start a multiplayer project but with the new Unity Networking system coming out I'm struggling to decide which solution to go with.

I'd...

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

Hi

#

So I used UNet, im making a nameplate

#

The nameplate is syncing for all the clients. But the hosts nameplate is not syncing to the clients

#

    private TextMeshProUGUI playerNameText;

    [SerializeField]
    private PlayerMovementMP playerProf;

    // Start is called before the first frame update
    void Start()
    {
        if (!isServer)
            CmdSendName(PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name"));
    }

    // Update is called once per frame
    void Update()
    {
        // Fix this: playerNameText.text = playerProf.playerName;

        if (!isServer)
            CmdSendName(PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name"));

    }

    [Command]
    void CmdSendName(string name)
    {
        RpcUpdateName(name);
    }

    [ClientRpc]
    void RpcUpdateName(string name)
    {
        playerNameText.text = name;
    }```

#

@jade glacier i used command and clientrpc

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

Have you joined the Mirror server on discord btw

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

no

#

where do i find that

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

Just goggle Mirror Unet Unity or any combo of that stuff

#

and they post the discord link all over the place

#

I can't paste it here

#

This channel will mute you for trying to post discord links

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

now i have

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

You might want to switch to mirror and then you can hit them up with questions

#

a lot of active users in their channels who might be able to help

#

I would use OnStartLocalPlayer though

#

and send the command from that

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

why?

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

No need for any isServer or IsLocalPlayer checks

#

it will fire on the local player

#

and will fire AFTER the network is started

#

Send the command from the player in OnStartLocalPlayer, and have the server set the syncvar on the receiving end of that command

#

Then add a Hook for the syncvar that tells the UI the change

#

    void Update()
    {
        // Fix this: playerNameText.text = playerProf.playerName;

        if (!isServer)
            CmdSendName(PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name"));

    }``` Like that is abusive. Fine for just testing but you would never want to do that. That is a lot of network spam

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:58 PM

#

i know xD

#

was the easiest way

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

player sends command OnStartLocalPlayer

#

server responds to command by setting syncvar

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

its already doing 2 right

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

hook tells all clients how to respond to changes in syncvar

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

bec of the [command] and [ClientRpc]

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

No need for ClientRPC

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

what should i all place in onstartlocalplayer

#

CmdSendName(PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name"));

#

this only?

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

Nameplates are a perfect candidate for a syncvar, not an RPC

#

yup

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

and then leave the command like it is?

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

that tells the local player to send its preferred name to the server

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

what do i call in CmdSendName

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

    {

            CmdSendName(PlayerPrefs.GetString("Name"));
    }

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

got that

#

but the cmdsendname

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

Nothing else to do

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

now rpcupdatename doesnt exist anymore, so i need to replace it

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:01 PM

#

that will fire on the server

#

Just set the syncvar IN CmdSendName

#

That method gets called on the server, where the syncvar is maintained

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

so this: playerNameText.text = name;

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

nope

#

set the SYNCVAR

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

playerName = name;

#

with this as variable: [SyncVar] public string playerName;

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

yup

#

That will cause that name value to pass to all clients

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

will the players also see the host?

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

then you use Hook to tell it to apply to the UI

#

yeah, the host localplayer works the same

#

But you NEED to add the hook

#

no hook... nothing telling the UI to change

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:05 PM

#

ah

#

i read somewhere: SyncVar hooks don't run on initial load despite setting the variable's value.

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

they don't

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

[SyncVar(hook = "ApplyToUI"] public string playerName;

#

    {
        playerNameText.text = playerName;
    }```

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

you typically need to bootstrap them in OnStartClient or OnStartServer

#

Also, unless you switch to mirror you need to set the syncvar value there

#

It acts like a Property in UNET

#

The hook needs a different signature, not recalling never use this stuff

#

but you need to look up how to use Hook

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

i imported mirror

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

Mirror sets the syncvar before or after running the hook, I forget which.

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

how do i use mirror

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

By talking to them LOL

white berry Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

by importing nothing happens i guess

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

I don't use mirror or UNet

#

yeah, if you want to switch to Mirror... you have to lean on their docs and their support for that

#

Or stick with UNet, they will still be helpful since its similar

floral turtle Jan 28, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

anyone have a recommendation for a minimalist networking package? Don't need any kind of anticheat (i.e., fully authoritative server) or need to handle a large amount of players. Ideally looking for something that wouldn't be super hard to wrap/replace later on. I have experience with networking, and so far LiteNetLib looks pretty good. Stuff like Quantum is really cool, but anything that would require total rewrites/new physics engine would be too much investment for the near future. Idea is to get a barebones implementation working for netplay between a Quest + other PC device in the same room/nearby. Game is this for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Xla432cpM

YouTube

Roystan

DAVIGO - Gameplay Trailer | 2-player VR vs PC Showdown

Add to your Steam wishlist!
► https://store.steampowered.com/app/1116540/Davigo/
Sign up for the upcoming closed beta!
► https://roystan.net/davigo
Follow development as it progresses.
► https://twitter.com/roystanhonks

DAVIGO is a 2-player game that pits a VR player a...

▶ Play video

#

Looked through this thread

#

https://forum.unity.com/threads/what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-available-network-solutions-assets.609088/

Unity Forum

Unity Multiplayer - What are the pros and cons of available networ...

I'm wanting to start a multiplayer project but with the new Unity Networking system coming out I'm struggling to decide which solution to go with.

I'd...

jade glacier Jan 28, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

I am doing work on an extension of PUN2 that you are welcome to try. It basically consists of a lot of drop in components that do most of the common tasks of networking for you.

I can PM you the discord server (pasting discord links on this Unity server gets you muted)

@floral turtle

#

Great game concept in that video

floral turtle Jan 28, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

sure that would be great @jade glacier . We're not planning on starting networking in the immediate future, but doing the research ahead of time to make life easy later on

night scaffold Jan 29, 2020, 5:23 AM

#

Ok, 2019.3 has just come out of beta and it seems like the new NetCode is available. Considering that the new networking code is so new, where would be the best place to start in terms of tutorials/resources? Thanks in advance!

stray scroll Jan 29, 2020, 8:57 AM

#

@night scaffold Look at quickstart, look at their repository with asteroids

brittle plinth Jan 29, 2020, 1:12 PM

#

Basic question here, I'm trying to implement multiplayer in a basic FPS game.
Should I start with PhotonPun2 or Mirror?

jade glacier Jan 29, 2020, 1:19 PM

#

Depends on the architecture you are after

#

Mirror/MLAPI are based on creating a server that is a Unity instance that you would host. PUN2 is a relay environment where you don't host a server, and all clients talk through a relay server.

brittle plinth Jan 29, 2020, 1:21 PM

#

Which would be better for a FPS? I'm assuming relay ?

jade glacier Jan 29, 2020, 1:35 PM

#

Competitive?

#

I would try Bolt if so. It is based on CS:GO ans is pretty much the only full stack option with all of the server authority handling built in. It isn't the easiest to get rolling on, but its the most "correct".

brittle plinth Jan 29, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

Will look into this. Thanks!

little talon Jan 29, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

i randomly started getting this error and cant get rid of it, dont know what rong. the error says there is nothing ovveride? public override void OnPlayerEnteredRoom(Player newPlayer)

#

in visual studio it says there are no errors, help im confused

#

NVM fixed it. my new sript had the name and class Player.

jade glacier Jan 29, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

In the future, be sure to indicate what library you are using and talking about @little talon

little talon Jan 29, 2020, 8:01 PM

#

ok

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 4:38 AM

#

Im using Photon bolt and the Assets keeps resetting to default (including deleting new ones) is there a way to properly save or something?

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 4:50 AM

#

You might want to join the Bolt discord if you aren't in there. @stable epoch Few people in here typically can answer Bolt questions.

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 4:53 AM

#

Thanks!

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 5:35 AM

#

The server is pretty much silent.

vital hawk Jan 30, 2020, 8:12 AM

#

Just dont ask about it's licensing there. Their staff have ultra thin skin there :)

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

Why so @vital hawk ?

#

I think the guys (employees) are super nice with the community.

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 8:29 AM

#

Says an employee

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:29 AM

#

Yes, fully discloaed

#

Disclosed

#

Sorry if I value my job and think it is fair to be paid to what I create. (Being clear, not bolt developer myself).:)

#

Have a family to feed...

#

This whole story about bolt licensing is just funny...

vital hawk Jan 30, 2020, 8:34 AM

#

you've been always cool, it's just some people got immediately pissed off when certain topics arise again and again only because the product licensing didn't tell what exit game staff communicated it to do and they didn't want to have the discussion on what the licensing terms actually said there

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

Hmm

#

Fair if they do that

vital hawk Jan 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

it's one of the few places I've gotten banned for and I try to think of myself as a reasonable person

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

But maybe you should consider that the guys there are not 100% qualified to discuss

vital hawk Jan 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

but yeah, this is offtopic here

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

#

No worries

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:40 AM

#

Can anyone help me with logic or how I have to go about it here using Photon?

#

I have preferably no players that I want to instantiate. All I have is two player components with the only trackable variable being their health and the kind of attack animation that should be called. If I can sync variables, I can just use that to call the attack animation on the local instance.

#

Right now, I am instantiating a player object with Photon sync. In my player, I have two variables for player 1 and player 2. When I click a UI button, if the one pressing it is Player 1, the health of the player 2 will be reduced and if it is Player 2, it would be vice versa.

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:44 AM

#

You can implement a component to serialize custom properties on a photon view network update

#

So you can decide to write the logic to run on either machines...

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:44 AM

#

Am I doing the logic bit right here? Do I need two variables, because when both the players are instantiated, they both have their own player 1 and player 2 int, can I just use one variable and track the local and the non local variable

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:44 AM

#

This is probably on the very first tutorial

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:45 AM

#

You can implement a component to serialize custom properties on a photon view network update
@gleaming prawn I'll give it a try, I was using UNet till now, so I'm trying to use the same logic here, if there is something much more easier, I'll use it

#

This is probably on the very first tutorial
@gleaming prawn I've been following their documentation and tried using RPC's, I am running into some issues, which is why I wanted to see if the logic was right

#

What I'm doing is check
“ if (Photon.Network.IsMasterClient) { decrease player 2's health using RPC }“

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:51 AM

#

There are several ways to do this, IMHO it really depends on the kind of game

#

If this is a bit like a turn based fight, etc, I'd put the logic on the master client

#

If you like unet, give a try to Mirror

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:53 AM

#

Oh, this is similar to turn based. This is basically a word game, you form a word from a bunch of random characters, press a button, if the word is right and is formed by player 1, he just reduces the health of the second player. I'm doing everything with UI buttons, so I don't even have a player to spawn.

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:53 AM

#

It's the open source version, still in active development (unet is deprecated)

#

RPCs with the commands to master client

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:54 AM

#

I'll give Mirror a try, but Photon looks much more flexible for now

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 8:54 AM

#

Either sync the vars from there or send confirmation responses

#

Well, I'm a photon employee, so nothing against that

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 8:55 AM

#

Will do, my only check ismasterclient, which is called properly, but when I try it with RPC's, both the players seem to reduce only both the players variable

#

Either sync the vars from there or send confirmation responses
@gleaming prawn Ah, that's great, I will look into confirmation responses

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

Im using Photon bolt and the Assets keeps resetting to default (including deleting new ones) is there a way to properly save or something?

MissingMethodException: UnityEditor.VersionControl.Task UnityEditor.VersionControl.Provider.Checkout(UnityEditor.VersionControl.Asset,UnityEditor.VersionControl.CheckoutMode)
Bolt.Editor.Utils.BackgroundProjectLoader.Save (Bolt.Compiler.Assets.BoltProject project) (at <33a983bf688145d5bed20a021e643dfa>:0)
BoltWindow.Save () (at <33a983bf688145d5bed20a021e643dfa>:0)
BoltProjectWindow.NewAsset (Bolt.Compiler.AssetDefinition def) (at <33a983bf688145d5bed20a021e643dfa>:0)
BoltProjectWindow.<OnGUI>b__9_2 () (at <33a983bf688145d5bed20a021e643dfa>:0)

This is one error i get. I get a few others similar.

gleaming prawn Jan 30, 2020, 10:23 AM

#

@stable epoch you should try to talk to Ramon Melo directly on Bolt's Discord. He's not in this one here (lead Bolt developer).

hazy meadow Jan 30, 2020, 12:38 PM

#

Hi! I need to make a local multiplayer game for 2-4 people, which API would you recommend? Ideally the server would run on a PC and 2-4 VR devices (Android) would connect to play co-op.

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 1:05 PM

#

@gleaming prawn
Can you help me with this
"does not implement interface member 'IPunObservable.OnPhotonSerializeView(PhotonStream, PhotonMessageInfo)'

#

I have 'IPunObservable' on a script in my spawned prefab, when I try to drag and drop this in the observable components, I get this error.

#

IPunObservable itself is throwing a error in my script

stiff ridge Jan 30, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

Does the component define it implements IPunObservable? After the classname?

#

As seen in the PhotonTransformView

public class PhotonTransformView : MonoBehaviour, IPunObservable

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

Yes

stiff ridge Jan 30, 2020, 1:25 PM

#

Copy paste the line(s) of code that define the method OnPhotonSerializeView

quasi tapir Jan 30, 2020, 1:25 PM

#

https://pastebin.com/PjtnBNSL

Pastebin

[C#] Pun Observable - Pastebin.com

#

When I hovoer over to IPunObservable on my script, I'm getting this error.
"Script does not implement interface member 'IPunObservable.OnPhotonSerializeView(PhotonStream, PhotonMessageInfo)'"

#

I made the most stupidest of mistakes, wrote 'Serialize' as 'Serialise', sorry for troubling you

stiff ridge Jan 30, 2020, 1:50 PM

#

Just saw that as well 🙂

#

No worries. This happens.

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 2:38 PM

#

Does anyone got any answer for my issue? Ive been stuck all day and I only started using the asset. Starting to feel like Photon is just not worth it.

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 3:13 PM

#

There aren't any Bolt peeps in this chan @stable epoch Wish I could help but my focus is on PUN2. I have only briefly played with Bolt like years ago.

#

Are you trying this in like 2019.3 and maybe are seeing an incompatibility there?

stable epoch Jan 30, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

@jade glacier Is it not compatible with 2019.3?

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

No clue, I don't use bolt

#

Just wondering if that is a place to be looking.

#

Any bleeding edge new release is going to bring some issues with store assets.

sick sparrow Jan 30, 2020, 6:22 PM

#

im trying to get PUN chat setup, does anyone know a good tutorial/guide for getting it up and running?

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+make+a+chat+using+pun

how to make a chat using pun - YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

#

the first ones are the most popular

#

i noticed a terrible issue that pun has, the transform view sometimes does less or more than what it should do.
i found the script that is responsible for the rotation and the position and well i have no idea how to make it linear or how some might call it RAW. i tried commenting the SmoothingDelay but it didnt help at all. any ideas?

public void Update()
        {
            if (!photonView.IsMine)
            {
                //Update remote player (smooth this, this looks good, at the cost of some accuracy)
                transform.position = Vector3.Lerp(transform.position, correctPlayerPos, Time.deltaTime /** this.SmoothingDelay*/);
                transform.rotation = Quaternion.Lerp(transform.rotation, correctPlayerRot, Time.deltaTime /** this.SmoothingDelay*/);
            }
        }

#

emotitron where are you at these dark times

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:00 PM

#

?

#

you have to ping me if you want me to know you were looking for me

#

Time.deltaTime for t ? The fuck is that shit? @near cairn

#

That is such a hack way of trying to dampen

#

Is that inside of the SyncTransformView in PUN ??

#

SNS came from replacing the god awful transform syncs in PUN, HLAPI, Mirror and MLAPI

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:08 PM

#

aww stop with that fucking sns

#

it is in synctransformview

#

you know how to fix their mess @jade glacier ?

#

hmm

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:17 PM

#

SNS is my answer, because its literally why I made it - sorry to sound repetitive.

#

All of the transform syncs out there terrible, and the lib makers are the first to acknowledge it. They are just there as placeholders.

#

I am cool with you not wanting to try SNS, but I don't know how else to answer.

#

I made it to solve the problems people have with this stuff.

#

📎 unknown.png

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

📎 665668249526075396.png

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

I mean, I literally don't know how else to say it LOL. I made SNS to fix that mess.

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:19 PM

#

there must be a way to send the transform through rpc's though

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

I wouldn't recommend it, because it doesn't solve the issues with tick, deterministic flow, buffering and everything else that makes transform sync and sync in general hard.

#

RPC is just a way to send a message

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

hmmm

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:20 PM

#

The problem isn't the messaging, the problem is the timings

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:21 PM

#

it is impossible to fix timing mate.

#

it will always be there

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:21 PM

#

?

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

the delays with the movement you mean?

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

Latency you can't make go away

near cairn Jan 30, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

yes

jade glacier Jan 30, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

But snapshot interpolation is a pretty done and solved problem

#

just none of the transform syncs do it

#

https://gafferongames.com/post/snapshot_interpolation

If you want to take a whack at it yourself

Gaffer On Games

Snapshot Interpolation | Gaffer On Games

Introduction Hi, I’m Glenn Fiedler and welcome to Networked Physics.
In the previous article we networked a physics simulation using deterministic lockstep. Now, in this article we’re going to network the same simulation with a completely different technique: snapshot int...

steady kite Jan 31, 2020, 3:03 AM

#

does photon not work with 2019.3?

#

its literally not being recognized for me...

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 3:09 AM

#

Not recognized seems a bit odd. If you are getting errors you it may not getting to the point where it adds the define symbols

#

are you seeing log errors?

steady kite Jan 31, 2020, 3:11 AM

#

nope

#

I test the demo scenes that they provide and they work just fine

#

but when I try to make my own script it won't even recognize "using Photon.Pun;"

#

all the coding stuff is not available for some reason :/

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 3:15 AM

#

I can't even get the latest unity to open a new project

#

what fresh Unity hell is this?

📎 unknown.png

weak plinth Jan 31, 2020, 3:25 AM

#

restart pc try again? :^)

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

sure. why not. "Performance if you can get it to start"

#

restart kicked off a zillion firewall requests for access, so likely had tried to get firewall access long ago while I was away and the requests timed out

#

Seems to have done it thanks @weak plinth

#

@steady kite Just installed the lastest unity, with the current PUN2 and the current SNS for PUN2.... all came up clean

steady kite Jan 31, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

why does it not recognize it in code for me then

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

restarted everything?

#

was it an existing project?

steady kite Jan 31, 2020, 3:47 AM

#

yes

#

it was a 2019.2 project

#

updated it

#

and installed photon fresh

#

it would suck if i had to make a brand new project yikes

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 3:50 AM

#

I would delete the built folders and let it rebuild before doing that

#

nuke the vs folder, resources folder and library

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

So PhysX is deterministic enough to have synced physics over the network. 1 month later and I finally have working client prediction, rollbacks, and state corrections and it seems to be very smooth. https://streamable.com/49l6p

Streamable

Build Client 2020.01.30 - 16.04.34.03 - Streamable

▶ Play video

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

If you are doing state transfers and you resim predictions when they disagree, yeah it can be passable. You will get more resims that a fully deterministic sim - but state transfer with resim is typically pretty resilient. @glacial totem

#

Though, you seem to have a very small number of objects as part of the sim there.

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/493511492226908181/672835555465363467/2019-04-18_00-29-08.mp4

Just posted this in the Unity Networking chan. An old test where each connection owned 10 objects that it predicted. The lines poke out of objects where there is a resim. That fake invisible wall is on the server only, so its there to force desyncs... so any bounces against that a resim is expected... but they also would go into desync often for no real reason.

▶ Play video

#

But even so... the number of those resims you can see happening are not huge. But they do happen.

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

Yeah resims are unavoidable because it's impossible to truly predict inputs from remote players

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

of course, that is the nature of snapshot interp w/ prediction

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

I have a dedicated authoritative server so that's the source of truth for my simulations

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

you just want the resims to happen because of bad predicts... not because of messy physics for no reason 🙂

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

Yup 🙂

#

Without any remote players (just my own player and the ball) I don't have any mispredictions

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

There are only a few sources of legit desync

#

the big one should be

Players unpredictable movements

#

the other being
2) Late/lost packets requiring server to extrapolate inputs (guess)

#

and if avoidable
3) Physics just being shitty

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

The game design itself is what bandaids the rest of the problems. You can't have smooth gameplay if objects in the game change speed in a short number of frames/ticks

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

using that lasso dynamic will help yeah

#

creative way around the problem

#

and how people should approach this stuff

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

By having overall slower relative game speed, you make it so that when a correction is needed, the max amount of distance an object needs to ever be corrected is negligible

#

I got creative with my hit mechanics too

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

Too often people make a game and then are like "Ok, game done... how do network now?"

Which is a complete fail of course.

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

The mechanic is a wind-up that takes .5 seconds and then releases for an impulse

#

which means that any mispredictions usually happen during the wind up

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

with that mechanic, you could even remove the prediction no?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

and get corrected and synced before the actual impulse happens

#

So the chargeup might have desync, but the actual shot never does

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

Sounds like you are doing a hybrid

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

hybrid what?

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

what you are doing, hybrid of prediction, and not prediction

#

is the player position client authority or server authority?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

Everything is server authority

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

So how do you deal with lost packets for the player movement?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

I send the last 10 inputs with each packet

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

That won't help though unless you have a massive buffer

#

at some point you are going to have an input not arrive in time for the sim

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

buffer always have 4-10 inputs sitting in it

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

Ack, might want to rethink that

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

with enough packet loss that will always happen

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

that is a LOT of induced latency

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

just a choice of how much you wanna try to compensate for

#

Induced latency doesn't matter though if it's by design

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

Typical handling for that is a smaller buffer (just enough to deal with jitter) and if a packet doesn't arrive in time for sim... the server uses the last input... and that becomes fact. The player then gets a desync when the disagreeing state arrives for its player.... and that forces a resim.

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

Yeah it's all choice

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

If you are ok with the latency and your game feels ok... sure. Easier doing it how you are.

#

But for frames of buffer is a pretty hefty cost

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

My target buffer size is basically 4 inputs

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

whats your net tick rate?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

and the client is the one responsible for growing or shrinking that buffer

#

120hz physics and network

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I use the Overwatch networking model

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

you send updates at 120 per sec?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

If the input buffer on the server is too small, the client runs extra physics frames, too big and the client skips physics frames

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

not to question anyone's choices - because its all voodoo... but that rate of sim is usually to make things snappy

#

but then you are undoing it with a massive buffer

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

right now I'm using 120 tick for the networking but I've tested with 60 tick too

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Yeah, I would just build your system so you can toggle those values and play around when the time comes

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Also almost all of these design choices are basically the same as Rocket League

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

and not hard code those choices

#

because they are ... interesting

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

RL uses a 4-10 tick input buffer

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

RL extrapolates and resims quite a bit

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

But uses Downstream Throttling

#

The server in RL controls the input buffer

#

and grows or shrinks it by skipping inputs or reusing the same ones

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

yeah, I recall they just consume or repeat frames to size the buffer

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

Correct

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

not as elegant as OW

#

That buffer though...

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

They have since implemented the OW method, you just have to enable it

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

OW shaves it to 1 tick when possible and only grows it if the internet is being trash

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

It's really cool that they have both methods working in parallel

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

I didn't realize RL had such bloated buffers

#

that is a surprising and somewhat lazy choice

#

Though their game is also not "snappy", there is a lot of physics weight working toward hiding the latency issues

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

33ms of extra latency basically with 4 tick buffer

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

an FPS can't hide that shit

#

33ms is some people's actual desired ping for competitive games

#

so that seems small on its own, but its not ideal by any measure

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

Yeah, that would be 33ms + whatever their actual ping is

#

But game design is all that matters

#

How far can the RL ball or player move over 33ms?

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

add to that interpolation latency, and the various net transmission buffers... it all adds up

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

Not very far at all

#

That's what's important

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

33ms when to players are on top of one another fighting for control of a common object (a ball) imo is quite a lot

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

and it's safe to say, their current experience is basically flawless

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

that's going to create quite a cone of confusion

#

They extrapolate and resim

#

so they hide it in a different way

#

It works, so can't really knock it

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

yeah that's what's important

#

but also, the ball can't get stuck between 2 objects. it pinches out

#

so those physics "fights" over the same object don't really happen

#

they happen and are quickly resolved

#

so once again game design is aiding there

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

are you sure they have 4-10 sized buffers?

#

and that is not just the size of the history?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

📎 Network_Long.png

#

you can debug it all in game

#

IBuf is what you're looking for

#

Averages at 3-4

#

History is probably pretty large

#

My current physics state history is a 1024 tick buffer

#

Which comes in handy because I re-use that data for server-side instant replays

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:13 PM

#

Are you extrapolating your ball?

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:13 PM

#

what do you mean?

#

I don't like calling it extrapolation tbh

#

It's literally just simulating physics lol

#

The idea is the same i guess, but once you have the current velocity of an object, simulating physics will keep moving that object along its path

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

RL extrapolates the ball and players

#

on the clients, they extrapolate other entities

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:15 PM

#

Extrapolate by what means?

#

I don't think they extrapolate anything

#

Unless you are talking about what I just said (simulating physics)

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:16 PM

#

https://youtu.be/c373LsgiXBc?t=282

YouTube

Rocket Science

RL Netcode & Lag explained - Rocket Science #16

Psyonix Cone - "It is Rocket Science" netcode explanation:
https://youtu.be/ueEmiDM94IE?t=23m33s

Battle(non)sense's Rocket League netcode video:
https://youtu.be/unzRzLKg7Mc

https://www.twitch.tv/dappur
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpeedyVibrantClamBlargNaut
https://clips.twitch...

▶ Play video

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:16 PM

#

Oh you mean the other player's inputs?

#

The ball has no inputs. Nothing to extrapolate

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:16 PM

#

They extrapolate everything, that is how they make it not a complete shit show on client side

#

They go something more like how determinsm in Quantum works, but not quite since they are still doing it all with state transfers

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:17 PM

#

Still confused what you mean about extrapolation

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

The ball is treated as deterministic in nature... so once the client knows about say a hit event... it calculates with the latencies involved where the ball will be in the future, and lerps the ball accordingly

#

The ball and other players don't live in the past like standard snapshot interp

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

Yeah it's not lerping where it will be in that nature

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

Clients are actively trying to guess where they will be, and correcting constantly

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

If client is on tick 100, and it gets the ball state for tick 90, it know where the ball should be on tick 100 based on that data

#

Because physics

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

Which is why the whole system relies on players have good pings. Higher pings = more wildly wrong extrapolations

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

Right of course

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

because determinsm

#

unless a player intervenes with the ball, its vector and bouncing is predictable

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

that's a given

#

Correct

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

I mean, that is extrapolation

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

Yeah i get what you mean because technically it's simulating what will happen in the future

#

The client is always in the future compared to the server

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

But the client is not if you extrapolate

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

the more latency you have, the more in the future your client needs to be

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

Extrapolating the world puts the client into the same timeframe as the server... just a very 'soft' version of it since its largely made up of guesses

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

There's no reason not to have the entire client in the future

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

I think we are speaking different languages about this stuff here

#

there are just timeframes

#

no actual past preset or future

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

Right, but if a tick is a reference to a point in time

#

So tick 100 on the client is the same point in time as tick 100 on the server

#

then the client is in the future

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

clients extrapolate the server states to try and keep the player in something resembling the timeframe they will be in according to the server

#

Its not a true vision of the timeframe they exist in, but the same timeframe nonetheless

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

Well for me and RL, the entire client is ticks ahead of the server

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

Yeah, I think we might be talking past one another here

#

Sounds like you have a plan and its working, so rock on

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

i think i get what you're saying

#

You can keep the client on the same tick as the server, and extrapolate what you need to predict into the future

#

so when the client gets info for tick 100, the client is now on tick 100, but visually it's ahead of that tick after extrapolation

#

is that correct?

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

Not if you are extrapolating the world around you. You are expecting that the server is going to apply your inputs some number of the ticks in the future

#

and you are extrapolating the world around you to guess what the frame the server is going to apply those to will look like

#

The tick that arrived is the past, and you use that to check your past predictions for desync

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

Right, if I want the server to process tick 100, i need to send tick 100 from the client way before the server is on that tick

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

but if you just got frame 100 ... you likely are now rendering frame like 110

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

Correct

#

Which is what I mean

#

Rendering frame 110 = the client is in the future lol

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

That isn't the future though

#

Not by the standard terms for this stuff

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

if the server is authoritative, then that's the source of truth

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

client in the future refers to when the client sees itself in relation to the world in a timeframe ahead of the objects around him

#

Counter-strike, the player lives in the future

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:28 PM

#

so a client in the future means that it's ahead of time compared to the server

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 5:28 PM

#

They shoot what they see, and the server has the REWIND its world to recreate what the player saw

#

For RL the world state is pushed forward in time with a guess.... so that the player is in the present

#

g2g, pretty sure we are just using different terms

glacial totem Jan 31, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

yeah it's definitely just different terminology and i think we are talking about identical things haha

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:00 PM

#

um

#

i am trying to use photon to create enemy and sync their position

#

should i be throwing a photonview on all of them

#

or is there a better way to do this

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

Depends if you want to be bleeding edge. I have a beta up for an extension of PUN2 that has improved components for transform syncs. Its an official Exit product, but its in super early beta. @toxic oak But if you want to try it, I can throw you an invite.

#

With vanilla PUN2 you would use the PhotonTransformView or PhotonTransformViewClassic

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

i am very new to this so i would like to just stick with the normal stuff

#

but wouldn't transform view require each object to have a photon view?

#

i read that its better to not have too many of those

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:30 PM

#

Its actually more work with the vanilla, which is why I am making the extension. But no pressure. And yeah, they need to be networked.

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:31 PM

#

ah i see

#

i'll try the vanilla way first if i fail i'll try the extension

#

thanks

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:31 PM

#

the photonview is the "address" of the byte[]

#

it is how the serialization knows where it came from and where it is going on the other end

#

without that, you have to do that yourself with your own netobj id system

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

i was thinking maybe i can manually id the objects

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

That seems like a lot of work if you are new to this and just want to get something working

#

PhotonView does that for you, so not sure the point in making your own parallel ID system

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:33 PM

#

just dont want to exceed the network limit

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:33 PM

#

The CCUs are based on connections

#

and the data you use won't be affected by it, since its the same data you will have to send for the transform states one way or the other

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:34 PM

#

oh

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:34 PM

#

the SNS stuff bitpacks it, so the data rates are considerably lower

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:34 PM

#

i thought having more photon view will use more

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

The vanilla components don't compress at all, other than the delta compression (not sending if nothing changed)

#

If they are doing things

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

so if i dont write anything in serialize

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

if there is nothing to be serialized, its not going to be sending much if anything

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

that makes much more sense

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

It may send a few bytes still per netobj, but I think not.

#

I don't use any of, so I am not sure.

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

ok i was misunderstanding how the cost works

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

For the SNS stuff it serializes everything into one byte[] - so it really doesn't care

#

I would focus on first just making something that works

#

you will cripple yourself trying to outsmart the networking costs

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

alright lemme try that

#

thanks a lot

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

First networked game attempts are usually failures... don't burden yourself with those concerns yet. Just make something to learn how to even do it.

toxic oak Jan 31, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

UnityChanOkay

void burrow Jan 31, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

@jade glacier But there is still the message limit, doesn't a transform view behaviour send individual packets?

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

I am not sure what the pricing model actually is at the moment. LOL I just write code for them - I don't actually involve myself in that side of things. @void burrow

void burrow Jan 31, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

https://gyazo.com/f066a652a94cfe71495f0ae9554bb1ef

Gyazo

#

As an example.

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

I just know there are a lot of successful games running on all of their services, so if you have a business model, the costs aren't unreasonable. I am not sure though for people making first time zero profit games fit into things. Though I would argue that making casual networked games is an oxymoron. If you want to get into the MP game biz, you better be planning for an income stream, because MP is a bit more cost intensive.

#

I don't have any opinion at all on the costs/benefit side of things.. so not really the best person to ask.

void burrow Jan 31, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

I'm not at all saying it's unreasonable. Don't get me wrong on that. All I'm saying is that if the transform views are sending individual packets you'll hit that message limit pretty quick with let's say 100 enemies. (Which of course isn't the same in every game). Because besides enemies you also have players to deal with which send loads of packets etc.

What I was wondering is that wouldn't it be better to just group together enemies in this case and then send packets based on a couple of enemies? I'm just trying to understand what would be a good idea in such cases.

#

And sure for testing everything is fine, also don't get me wrong on that. But I'm just curious about how people would do this in a real project with PUN 😄

jade glacier Jan 31, 2020, 9:52 PM

#

No offense taken - I have zero opinion on it.

#

The transform syncs in vanilla and in my extension set all stop sending if you tell them to not when nothing has changed

#

Even if you wrap them, you would end up making the same footprint

#

the standard serialization with PV is going consist of a compressed uint for the PV.Id and then the data

#

The biggest savings is from compressing the transforms and animators

#

That's what the SNS stuff is doing, basically what you are saying plus bitpacking and compression

📎 unknown.png

void burrow Jan 31, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

Alright, thank you for the information!

mighty wren Feb 1, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

What would be my best bet for creating a multiplayer game that can host 2 player matches for matchmaking but can also host bigger rooms with up to 16 people? I'm new to networking and Unity in general.

#

Please ping me when you answer!

digital urchin Feb 1, 2020, 12:07 AM

#

@mighty wren Considering the how general your question is, it makes it hard to give you any information relating to that. You will first probably want to learn Unity, since networking is its own beast, and then you will want to decide on a networking solution. Many exist, and which one you choose will be based on the game your making, and how you want it to work.

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 12:54 AM

#

@mighty wren I wouldn't even start there as a new dev to networking. I would make some tutorials with some of the major libs just to get familiar with even the terms and the landscape, as well as the challenges of networking. LONG before even trying to come up with a real game concept.

#

Make a demo with like Bolt, Mirror, PUN2, Forge etc

#

They are all mid to high level apis

#

all very different

mighty wren Feb 1, 2020, 12:55 AM

#

yeah, before I develop a multiplayer game I think I'm going to try and develop a simple rhythm game first lol

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 12:56 AM

#

A really good way to learn the difficulties of networking is to try and just make 2 player Pong.

#

Doesn't matter which library

#

https://gafferongames.com/

Then, a lot of these articles will start to make sense.

Gaffer On Games

Glenn Fiedler's game development and networking articles

toxic lintel Feb 1, 2020, 11:55 AM

#

when i call a command function

#

and that runs on the server

#

will the server automatically send the updates that happen to the clients

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 12:15 PM

#

nope

#

command is localplayer -> server

#

to go the other way you need to RPC or SyncVar

#

@toxic lintel

toxic lintel Feb 1, 2020, 12:16 PM

#

alright

#

so if i were to send a command to walk one step to the server

#

it would run on the server

#

but none of the clients would see me walk

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 12:18 PM

#

can't speak to any of the code that command is initiating, but the message is only going one way

#

command is localplayer -> server
to go the other way you need to RPC or SyncVar

gleaming fossil Feb 1, 2020, 12:40 PM

#

Anyone know what the transport layer from unity is based upon? Is it RUDP or is it UDP?

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 1:42 PM

#

You mean the old LLAPI or the new netcode stuff?

#

answer to both I believe would be rudp (though the R part is an option)

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 1:49 PM

#

Question, is it possible to create a deterministic networked 3D game with Unity? I've read posts about people saying PhysX isn't deterministic, while others say it is 🤔

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

I really am getting the impression you are going to keep reasking that until you get the answer you are hoping for

#

PhysX is not deterministic enough for an actual deterministic game. Full deterministic meaning you never need to correct with state transfers. All clients will get the same results from the same inputs.

gleaming fossil Feb 1, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Oh awesome emo 😄 Do you happen to know if messages are sent via RUDP by default?

#

Seems like I can only interact with Send in one way

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Which lib are you talking about though?

gleaming fossil Feb 1, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

The new transport, my bad

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

No clue, never touched it and don't plan to until DOTS is not terrible.

#

Where are you seeing someone saying that PhysX is somehow fully deterministic? @void burrow

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:16 PM

#

I really am getting the impression you are going to keep reasking that until you get the answer you are hoping for
Sorry, but when did I ask this? I've indeed asked other questions about deterministic systems and I've also asked a lot of other questions trying to understand networking in general. But I'm not hoping an answer to fit any kind of answer I 'expect to get'. If PhysX isn't deterministic enough then that's totally fine as an answer for me :)

Where are you seeing someone saying that PhysX is somehow fully deterministic?
Let me see if I can find it again, it was however me looking at night at things. So I might have remembered something wrong I had read.

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:16 PM

#

Sorry, might be confusing you with the person I was talking to repeatedly yesterday about it @void burrow

#

it can be made somewhat locally determinstic

#

but not deterministic in the sense that you can have multiple machines safely try to recreate a simulation - which is typically the requirement for multiplayer determinism.

#

fholm spent a massive amount of time making a fixed point physics engine for Quantum because there are no easy physics drop in solutions that are properly deterministic

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:20 PM

#

Unity's physics system is 100% deterministic.
https://answers.unity.com/questions/1421193/deterministic-physics-options.html

Deterministic physics options - Unity Answers

Unity is the ultimate game development platform. Use Unity to build high-quality 3D and 2D games, deploy them across mobile, desktop, VR/AR, consoles or the Web, and connect with loyal and enthusiastic players and customers.

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:21 PM

#

The new one they were trying to claim WOULD be... but all of us in the networking channel were like "um... say what now?"

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floating point != deterministic in any actual use case known to any of us

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That person is wrong, or just limiting their answer to local resimulation

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not networking across different machines with different CPUs

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Good to know 🙂

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Not exactly the voice of authority there

📎 unknown.png

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Unless you trust Bunny83 who is "as far as he can tell"

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Yeah, but it still got me confused about whether or not it was possible.

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Its not

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If it were, you would see even one game doing determinism with it. All deterministic engines that I know of resort to fixed point

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Not trying to be rude or anything, just tying to save you the time of endless hopeful searching

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floating point operations break determinism across different machines

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:26 PM

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Not sounding rude at all, I appreciate honesty xD

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:27 PM

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Now if you are like making an XBox game and all the consoles have identical FP processors... maybe?

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But even then, trying to carefully manage lifecycles with PhysX in Unity would be a nightmare

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like if an object gets destroyed or added, that all has to happen exactly the same

void burrow Feb 1, 2020, 2:28 PM

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So you're basically screwed if you want to make a RTS / competitive FPS game with Unity.

jade glacier Feb 1, 2020, 2:28 PM

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In any library