#archived-networking | Official Unity Discord | Page 57

wild badge Nov 17, 2019, 4:03 PM

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Then I recommend going through the SpatialOS FPS tutorial first, to get a feel for how it works

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Though learning photon might give you a better feel / insight on how networking works

tough oracle Nov 17, 2019, 4:04 PM

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that is exactly what im looking right now

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the fps tutorial

graceful zephyr Nov 17, 2019, 4:07 PM

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@tough oracle if you learn enough to be able to build something like what you want, you will also have learned that its basically impossible to do by yourself

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so it becomes quite the interesting philosophical problem, by learning enough you learn that there's no way to do it for you

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so did you really learn to do it?

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😄

wild badge Nov 17, 2019, 4:07 PM

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Its learning either way

stray scroll Nov 17, 2019, 5:03 PM

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@graceful zephyr Haha, I like that it's kind of parallel to the "The more you know a subject, the more you realize how much there is left to know". Thanks for explaining RESTfull as well, it's kind of what I found online with a few extra steps. Would saving a token on a DB, which is used to authorize other queries count as not being RESTfull then or not?

graceful zephyr Nov 17, 2019, 5:04 PM

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@stray scroll im not 'in' on how the web world does/calls things anymore

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i think it's a matter of definition

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but generally yes, REST should be stateless protocol

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on both sides

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if you save stuff into a DB to authorize future requests on the server, it's probably not restful

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but tbh who gives a fuck 😄

stray scroll Nov 17, 2019, 5:06 PM

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@tough oracle But taking on a MMO as your first game is far fetched. Would recommend do some singleplayer gamejams, learn basic socket connection, look into basic networking concepts, then look at 3D party APIs & solutions. Try a few of them with smaller games. Then decide if you really want to do an MMO.

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Ah yeah. If it works the way you want it, don't care what you call it 😄

graceful zephyr Nov 17, 2019, 5:08 PM

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me and a friend are doing a 'semi' mmo, which can support up to 100 players per 'area'

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but we've both been doing networking for a looong time

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@stray scroll yeah if it works it works, i usually don't get bogged down with strict definition of various patterns, etc.

undone sigil Nov 17, 2019, 8:05 PM

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@tough oracle getting 500 players at the same time is a challange by itself, not even on one server

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 12:39 AM

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where to start learning about networking in unity? i just want to know the basics to create a lan game.

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 11:28 AM

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Hi, currently evaluating the tech to run a dedicated server and Unity clients. Photon Server seems to be the obvious choice for us at the moment, but the Unity client is using DOTS and the new NetCode sounds very interesting. The main problem is it won't really be production ready until Q2 2020 as I understand. Does anyone have any experience with Photon Server? Is it possible to run a headless Unity build as the dedicated server?

NetCode may be missing other important features provided by Photon: load balancing, authentication, matchmaking, etc?

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 12:04 PM

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I want to manage to make a server like terraria or minecraft, more like client hosted lan

high moat Nov 18, 2019, 12:06 PM

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I have created a working Moba in Unity (not optimized) with Photon PUN2 and a sql-server; but obviously dedicated servers would be a big +. Unfortunately I only find a) unity presentations praising their future releases and b) companies selling their solutions for thousands of dollars. Is there any way to create dedicated unity servers (in a small scale for developing) today and do tutorials how to do this in practice exist ^^

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 12:09 PM

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@high moat I'm looking into the same thing at the moment. It seems there is a wide range of options.
Photon Server is one solution (there is a free tier) which may work for you as you already use Photon.
You could also create your own dedicated server executable (maybe even Unity headless) and deploy using something like AWS Gamelift.

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@weak plinth if you have little experience in this, I'd suggest taking a look at Photon PUN. There's lots of examples to help you get started.

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 12:11 PM

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Oh, ok, thank you

high moat Nov 18, 2019, 12:14 PM

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@hollow sandal do you know any tutorials/information/documentation on how to start creating a dedicated server executable? I can image how a "headless" instance of a game looks like but have no idea how real world implementation should work ^^

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and ty ofc, gonna check out aws gamelift :)

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 12:17 PM

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I don't know I'm afraid, I just saw that passing -batchmode -nographics initialises a player executable in 'headless' mode

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You would need to detect this in gamecode and become a server.

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https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/bolt/current/demos-and-tutorials/headless-server

Headless Server | Photon Engine

Networking middleware for Unity 3D and realtime multiplayer games and applications. Get started without having to know the details of networking or write any complex networking code.

turbid rune Nov 18, 2019, 12:36 PM

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@high moat I've discussed in the past with a company that have published a big product on a popular IP with a headless mode dedicated servers, and tbh, the cost/performance is really poor. (not only cause of poor operational side) but with their calculations they could handle about 6 instances of server per a CPU core. That gave them about 6x7(usable cores)x6(players) per machine, whichis really really poor performance. I've made a cost analysis later for a similar project that for big playerbases (1M MAU+), the cost/player even with grat autoscaling and resource management would be just too big (not counting transfer fees etc.)

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So I wouldn't go with the headless mode if you want to publish and scale your game, but for learning and funzies, it's a great solution.

high moat Nov 18, 2019, 12:42 PM

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good to know, ty :)

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 1:09 PM

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@turbid rune this: > and tbh, the cost/performance is really poor.

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That's THE point... You nailed it...

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You start to understand a lot of our business decisions when you try it yourself...:)

turbid rune Nov 18, 2019, 1:10 PM

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Oh I abolutely appreciate what u guys are doing @ photon (: we're using a lot in my current company with great success

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 1:22 PM

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When you put on the table that you need to pay a beefy server just to host 6 instances of a game (even if your game can have an avg 50 players per game this is super EXPENSIVE).

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And you need a 100 player/per instance to reach something like avg 50

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I don't know the exact numbers, but I think Albion Online (which runs dedicated photon servers with custom authoritative logic running on them) can host in the thousands of players per physics machine AFAIK...

winter solstice Nov 18, 2019, 2:25 PM

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Hello everyone, me and some friends (all from the game industri) just started a new project, and we are actually trying to stress test some network midleware such as Photon etc ... as the new Unity network transport is not ready for production and is lacking of documentation. is there any spreadshit with the differents middleware currently used on the market ? (note that we are actually aiming to have like 200-400 players on a game, with Authoritative server architecture) +thousands of AI. so the perfs are important, if you have some Network Middleware to share would be glad having some recomandations ! Thanks everyone if it's DOTS compatible it's a big +

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 2:45 PM

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@gleaming prawn @turbid rune I wonder if the progress on Tiny Game and DOTS will help improve this significantly. So if I understand you correctly, you think it's best off to write a custom server rather than use Unity in headless?

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 2:57 PM

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I think it's a case by case decision.

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Locking into one approach is never best IMHO.

turbid rune Nov 18, 2019, 2:58 PM

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@hollow sandal it depends on the project. I've used Unity networking for example for local-hosted apple-tv/iPhone/Android multiplayer where the tv app was the host. I would also go for headless if your multiplayer is terraria-like, so one of the players can be a headless host. If you have a small team and small budget I would go with Photon for p2p/hosted logic multiplayer and maybe top it off with a gamespark/playfab for the business logic. Especially if none of your people is experienced with network programming. Netcode is a hassle. Connection upkeep is a hassle, and using Photon or other solutions will save you COUNTLESS hours of work

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 2:58 PM

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This without mentioning determinism, which can scale and give authority even without running simulation on server 100% of the times.

turbid rune Nov 18, 2019, 2:59 PM

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@gleaming prawn @hollow sandal

This without mentioning determinism
THIS SO MUCH.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 2:59 PM

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It's a lot of different options.

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It's your gameplay that "chooses" for you which approach to use. Not a tool vendor or anybody...:)

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:01 PM

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This is helpful thanks. I currently have gamelogic running in a deterministic native plugin. My plan was lockstep simulation but I guess I'm concerned about performance now, my partner wants to support 10 players. Seems like simulating 10 players on every machine might get too expensive.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:01 PM

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Seems like simulating 10 players on every machine might get too expensive.
In lockstep, really?

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:02 PM

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10 players, each with.. 50 units say

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:02 PM

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I mean, take a look at battlelands royale... 32 players, not even lockstep

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:02 PM

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or 200 units I don't know

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:02 PM

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Determinsitic predict rollack on mobile

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in lockstep you should be fine, if you are coding it rigght

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I mean, if you can't simulate all players in ONE client, how Beefy do you need your server to be?

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This will be even more expensive...:)

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:04 PM

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Well, I remember early games of Total Annihilation, where one slow machine would take the whole game down.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:04 PM

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That's the point, you should not consider server as an infinite resource, quite the opposite:

you client's machines power is payed by your player...:)
your server CPU consumption is payed by you...:(

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where one slow machine would take the whole game down.
You are talking about a super super masive RTS.

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:05 PM

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My deterministic plugin is using software float emulation so it's probably a lot slower than if I had a single server authority and I could write faster non deterministic code.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:05 PM

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with a lockstep implementation that does not have server for batching (canceling out slow players)

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My deterministic plugin is using software float emulation
What do you mean by that?

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a Fixed Point implementation?

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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well, a software implementation of floating point, so that it gets the same results across different hardware

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assuming it compiles with the same settings.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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Are sure that is a good approach?

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:06 PM

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no 😂

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:07 PM

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We're super happy with FP 48.16

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But I've seen RTS games use (in the same game) several different FP implementations for different problems

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16.16, 24.8, etc etc

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But I've never seen a float emulation one...

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:12 PM

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32 FP was too low for me, but I'd not considered FP64

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Do you use something off the shelf for 48.16 ?

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:13 PM

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you have Q32.32 (64) that has super good accuracy

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But it's slower on Mult operator (compared to 48-16 that we use)

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Do you use something off the shelf for 48.16 ?
This can be found all over. It's an open standard, and there are MIT licensed implementations in C#.

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We have our own because we pretty much manually inline all the code.

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notice 48.16 is the same accuracy (16 bits decimals) as 16.16, it is just much faster because it does have a buffer for multiplications, ezc

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32.32 does the same as 16.16, then adding 32 bits for decimals.

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:18 PM

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Now I'm really struggling with what decision to make! I was just assuming that lockstep sim would be too slow, and going classic client server would solve issues with cross platform play, at the expense of supporting lower unit counts and the cost of hosting a server per game.
Now I'm having second thoughts and thinking that deterministic lockstep is worth sticking with. Just sending player inputs has a lot going for it.

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:19 PM

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There's a lot going on with determinism currently... Not even talking about us only.

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Lockstep is just the basic way... Probably the way to go for your game.

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:21 PM

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Thanks for your time, this has been an enlightening conversation. If I have questions about Quantum should I direct them to the email address on the website? Or can you answer them here?

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:23 PM

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I can answer a few

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just shot

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shoot

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:23 PM

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Sure, platform support? PC, Mac, mobile?

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When are they expected to drop?

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and secondly, when do you expect the SDK and pricing to be finalised? When can we reasonably expect to ship a game built with this tech?

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Finally, just so I understand, how would I port my gamelogic from native plugin to Quantum? What language / programming paradigms?

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:30 PM

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Sure, platform support? PC, Mac, mobile?
PC, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, PS4, XB1, Switch (all with cross platform determinism)

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When are they expected to drop?
It's in production.

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production I mean: being used by several studios.

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and secondly, when do you expect the SDK and pricing to be finalised?
Quantum was released in January 2018. We have a few released titles, with several games in production (around 80 studios using it)

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When can we reasonably expect to ship a game built with this tech?
Now? This depends essentially on how fast you can finish the game.

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What language / programming paradigms?
Standard C#, using our own ECS APIs... There's a deep dive video you can watch (just send us an email)

hollow sandal Nov 18, 2019, 3:33 PM

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awesome, this is super helpful thanks. The website gives the indication it is an early access kinda thing. I'll email and try and get some more details. Thanks again 🙏

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:35 PM

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The website gives the indication it is an early access kinda thing
It's more that it's not free to download and we help you evaluate if it's the right tech for you

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There are cases in which state transfer is better anyway. In those cases you have Bolt, or something custom if you really want to, etc.

winter solstice Nov 18, 2019, 3:38 PM

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Does anyone seen my question ? 😦

gleaming prawn Nov 18, 2019, 3:39 PM

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just saw it

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Maybe you want something from outside, of course, be we'll be happy to discuss ways for you to benchmark our stuff (we do have some test-bench middleware we use internally to stress test our servers)

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But the approach you want (authoritative state transfer server for 200 players per game is something you don't have out of the box AFAIK). Of course the Albion Online guys do more than that with Photon Server, but maybe that's not exactly what you want.

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Reading again, IMHO what you are looking for is something really like either photon server raw SDK (like Albion Online uses) or SpatialOS stuff (pricing not really straightforward)

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Leaving office already here, so drop an email to developer@photonengine.com if you want to ask us anything.

winter solstice Nov 18, 2019, 3:59 PM

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i will consider sending a mail to you,

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have you guys done some prototypes with Photon and ECS ?

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Albion online can be somthing similar to what we are doing.

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we are basically more doing something like RUST (by facepunch) than Albion Tbh

graceful zephyr Nov 18, 2019, 5:36 PM

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aw i missed the quantum discussion 😦 😄

jade glacier Nov 18, 2019, 5:37 PM

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Start your own

graceful zephyr Nov 18, 2019, 5:46 PM

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lol

jade glacier Nov 18, 2019, 5:51 PM

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Question: How great is Quantum? Super great? or the greatest?

graceful zephyr Nov 18, 2019, 5:56 PM

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o.O

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o/

fading apex Nov 18, 2019, 8:42 PM

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Hey I am fairly familiar on how a raltime pvp type multiplayer game with unet works but I want to create a game like shakes and fidget for example. Something that does not use realtime pvp. What would be the best networking solution to use here since unet is deprecated. (my game basically only consists of ui elements)

final depot Nov 18, 2019, 8:51 PM

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@gleaming prawn Do y'all have a Photon transport level API documentation?

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I can't seem to find any on the website

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 8:54 PM

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Transport level?

final depot Nov 18, 2019, 9:24 PM

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I just want to establish connections + send emessages through a Photon relay

graceful zephyr Nov 18, 2019, 9:28 PM

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@final depot look up photon realtime docs

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thats what the low level transport is called

final depot Nov 18, 2019, 9:31 PM

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Thanks! Just checked out the API, and it seems useful. Only downside is that passing byte arrays as messages incurs GC unless you pool them.

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Would be great if it supported raw pointer + length

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Tangentially related: are there Unity Paackage Manager packages for Photon products

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 9:43 PM

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Yeah

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You could use PUN then

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Uh

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I think there is the PUN asset

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Got check it out @final depot

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Go*

final depot Nov 18, 2019, 9:45 PM

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I already have a netwokring solution, I'm just looking to get it to work on something that is platform agnostic.

weak plinth Nov 18, 2019, 9:46 PM

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Like u can build your game source around theyr source

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Anyways

limber flax Nov 18, 2019, 9:46 PM

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Does anyone have experience with loading asset bundles into a WebGL build? I am running into an issue where I am not allowed to load data from a domain that is not the same as the webpage that it is being hosted on due to CORS policy. I want to make an HTTP header that states that I am allowed to pull data from a cross domain.

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I have very basic HTML knowledge and thats it.

fading apex Nov 19, 2019, 7:34 AM

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what networking solution should i use if i do not want realtime multiplayer

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 7:35 AM

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@fading apex need to be more specific

fading apex Nov 19, 2019, 7:36 AM

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basically you create a character collect gear and battle other players
the batteling is automatic and can not be influenced by the player

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so i do not need to sync anything in realtime

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 7:37 AM

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Sounds like it'd be enough with a database to store characters/gear/etc in and then a deterministic simulation to run the game

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i.e. basically no networking at all

fading apex Nov 19, 2019, 7:38 AM

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ok is there some nice tool for databases that i should use ?

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 7:41 AM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

fading apex Nov 19, 2019, 7:43 AM

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ok XD thx tho

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Only ready-to-go solution I know of is Entity Framework 6 or Hibernate

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Which are both not exactly light-weight

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And I have no idea how or even IF those run in Unity

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 6:52 PM

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they do not

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not a fkn chance lol

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Ah, well that solves that 😄

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Saves me a lot of trouble hitting that wall eventually

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Is SQLite a thing that works (well) for client-hosting?

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 6:55 PM

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yeah sure

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it works ok

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afaik

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Good to know, thanks!

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 6:59 PM

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@weak plinth hows ur networking adventres going btw

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😄

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 7:01 PM

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Reasonable. I've been busy with my actual job and some other stuff the past few days

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I'm getting some architecture up. And I've managed to get the player/camera moving via a tick-based buffer

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Next step is to throw ENet in and connect a client and see about syncing 2 players

stray scroll Nov 19, 2019, 8:07 PM

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Anyone who're using the NetCode and had the same problem? https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/sampleproject/Assets/NetCode/Snapshot/GhostSendSystem.cs line 442. As I create my Character entity.

📎 unknown.png

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 8:08 PM

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@stray scroll Dont think anyone is using tbe preview drop from 4 months ago 😛

stray scroll Nov 19, 2019, 8:08 PM

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pff

manic spruce Nov 19, 2019, 8:46 PM

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Hey guys, I'm using the LLAPI (because there's still no suitable replacement) to build a game. So far I have simple data messages sending back and forth from client to server, but I'm wondering how best to do this for rigidbodies. Serializing the whole component sounds expensive, but just position, rotation, and velocity may not be enough. Any advice? Thanks! (please mention me)

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 8:49 PM

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The correct answer involves going into architectures like snapshot and determinism and such, which you will want to scroll up for - they happen often.

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But its not as simple as 'sending data' - it involves creating an entire tick system to do correctly.

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@manic spruce

undone sigil Nov 19, 2019, 8:53 PM

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"no suitable replacement" - for the worst library in the universe?

final depot Nov 19, 2019, 9:13 PM

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@manic spruce what's the target platform?

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If you just want a transport level replacement, I have several options for you

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@weak plinth alternative is to just set up a HTTP server that does that communication, hell a Flask + SqlAlchemy setup works fine too.

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@fading apex ping since you also asked that question

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Then the client side logic just needs a HTTP client

manic spruce Nov 19, 2019, 9:26 PM

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@final depot target platform it currently just PC (because this is mostly just a test).

final depot Nov 19, 2019, 9:27 PM

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You could try lidgren

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Or ENET-Csharp

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Or Valve's GameNetworkingSockets

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If you have a well established server IP, these should work just fine

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If you are looking to do some P2P

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You might need to look into solutions with integrated relay network support

graceful zephyr Nov 19, 2019, 9:49 PM

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LiteNetLib is a good option if u just want a simple udp/transport lib

brittle plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:11 PM

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Just a beginner question, how would I go about setting up a multiplayer game? Any good tutorial link or a page that is latest. All I can find are 3-4 year old videos

final depot Nov 19, 2019, 10:23 PM

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I think the flow everyone has done at one point or another in their game is:

Try the UNET HLAPI, shit the bed and try the LLAPI.
Get frustrated with the LLAPI, then attempt any of Photon's products.
Stick with Photon or roll their own solution.

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As far as I can tell, there are a few HLAPI like networking solutions out there: Photon, Mirror (great free choice btw), and a few others listed on the Unity forums.

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By far, I think Photon is the most polished immediate solution.

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:24 PM

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Or you can try websockets

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Of PUN

final depot Nov 19, 2019, 10:25 PM

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But IMO, networking is not built for a one-size fits all solution, probably why there are so many different networking solutions/products, evein within Photon's lineup.

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:25 PM

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Well

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Ofc

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But products are made for different needs of people

final depot Nov 19, 2019, 10:26 PM

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I understand not everyone has a full education on internet infrrastrucutre and can work at any level in the internetl Protocol Stack, but it's worth learning at least a little about what lies underneath some of the more auto-magical APIs and solutions available.

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I'm a strong proponent for using a viable and solid transport level API and serialization layer

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To build game specific netcode

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:28 PM

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I'm working right now on a whole component system for PUN2 for Exit, but not sure when that will beta

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:28 PM

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R u a dev?

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:28 PM

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Its pretty much a pile of interworking components for all of the usual stuff like hitscans, vitals, pickups, projectiles, transform/animator syncs

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:29 PM

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@jade glacier

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:29 PM

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I make networking stuff yeah

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:30 PM

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Nice

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What are you currently working on?

brittle plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:30 PM

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@final depot @weak plinth Thanks for the help! I'll be using Photon most probably then as I just need to try it for the first time

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:30 PM

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How did i help u?

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:31 PM

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its extending this out into a full system of components pretty much @weak plinth https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/simple-network-sync-134256

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:31 PM

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So u dont work with datas?

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:32 PM

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datas?

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:32 PM

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I mean like

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Fixing bugs

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Of client/server sides

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:33 PM

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I mean, I fix my bugs LOL

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:33 PM

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Loool

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:33 PM

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Not sure what context you mean that in

brittle plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:33 PM

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@weak plinth

Or you can try websockets
Of PUN

I assumed this was something related to my query, nvm sorry

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Websockets its a http connection m8

brittle plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Just googled it :x

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Nice

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@jade glacier bugs as exloits

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Or thats tobias ig

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Exploits

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:36 PM

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Tobi is working on some security stuff on the server side, if you are talking about the back end?

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:36 PM

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Yeah right

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:37 PM

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I'm all HLAPI and UX, I don't touch transport and below at all

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:37 PM

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Nice

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U r not on low level

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:38 PM

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Nope, there are much better people than me who do that stuff

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:38 PM

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Lol alrighty

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:39 PM

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I don't even work on PUN2, I am just making this extension system that will play along with PUN2 for them. So I'm not really a PUN2 pro by any measure.

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:40 PM

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What do you think ab albion online

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Can it be abused af?

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:40 PM

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No clue, never played it

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:41 PM

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Same

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Anyway

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Gn

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:42 PM

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Keep in mind that is using Photon Server... not PUN2 as far as I know

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night

weak plinth Nov 19, 2019, 10:43 PM

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Photon server as

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They control the flow and shit?

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Or its handled by photon

jade glacier Nov 19, 2019, 10:52 PM

#

Photon is a collection of layers and APIs, so its a larger discussion than I can really type here. That and I am not the most qualified.

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 3:57 AM

#

Joined this server seeking some basic info. I'm new to unity, but not to coding and game design.

If I had the goal of producing a competitive multiplayer game, what are some resources and documentation that would be good to look into, assuming I currently lack information on multiplayer/server based games?

I can give context for exactly what project I'm planning on starting if needed.

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:14 AM

#

https://discordapp.com/channels/489222168727519232/497874116246896640/646475554320809984
@buoyant granite

#

Also depends on what game you want to make, how optimized you want your system, how deep your knoweledge of networking is, and what your target genre is

#

Oh and ongoing recurring budget for servers

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:19 AM

#

Players go around shooting one another with modular spells, but all hitboxes are perfect spheres, including the players.

I want it to be playable with around 10 players.

I have no knowledge of networking, other than that I would prefer if it functioned in such a way that players could host for games.

Target Genre is third-person shooter.

#

I have a budget of 0 dollars, and am entering in under the assumption that I will be doing everything myself.

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:20 AM

#

Do you need stringent anti-cheat

#

Well, if you are going to do this with servers, it's going to be mroe than $0/mo

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

Perhaps I misworded then.

#

My preference is that players host the games, rather than relying on a central server.

#

It doesn't require stringent anti-cheat

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

Target platform is? PC? Mobile? Console?

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:21 AM

#

PC

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:22 AM

#

I would start off with a solution that uses Photon to get used to reasoning over the network.

#

This will however not be free

#

You can at least get a basic implementation on it and see if you ridea works

#

Then if you are planning for PC, I suggest integrating with the Steam or Discord P2P relay networks

#

their matchmaker would make it much easier to make a P2P game

#

but is much more lower level

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:23 AM

#

I apologize for saying this/shutting down your advice, which I do appriciate, but I'm not going to be able to pay money at any stage.

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:23 AM

#

That's ifne

#

Photon is free to start and expriement with

#

and is a good way to prototype

#

Also getting used to the desgin patterns for networked gameplay isn't easy

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:25 AM

#

One big question I have is, do I need to begin the project with a server ready from the beginning, or can I create the finished project, and then implement the multiplayer functionality by modifying this?

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:25 AM

#

For Photon, all logic is client side

#

The server is a mere relay

#

At least he basic version of it is

#

I strongly advise against developing a base game then adding networking

#

a lot of game types need to be architected with netplay in mind

#

you can end up with patterns that just don't work online

#

and will need to find ways around that

#

As for general resoruces

buoyant granite Nov 20, 2019, 4:29 AM

#

I see. Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately, all of this put together seems to indicate that my project is dead in the water.

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 4:29 AM

#

I strongly suggest reading Gaffer on Game's articles

#

they're a great look at the lower level mechanisms for networked game dev

raw wigeon Nov 20, 2019, 8:43 AM

#

argh. i wish i read through these channels earlier.

#

i built this over the weekend after waiting for the dots networking samples to drop. https://github.com/gamedolphin/dots-multiplayer-sample

GitHub

gamedolphin/dots-multiplayer-sample

Contribute to gamedolphin/dots-multiplayer-sample development by creating an account on GitHub.

gleaming prawn Nov 20, 2019, 9:00 AM

#

@weak plinth Albion uses photon transport layer, but it's not PUN or anything client side. Full logic is server side (custom implementation, using photon server SDK), and they intercept and "digest" every message. You can't send messages that will end up on the other clients directly.

#

And they had to deal with hacking attempts since day 1...

#

So I think it's a good candidate for probes... Good luck...:) They are cool guys... If you approach them with something that works they will probably listen to you as well.

#

They deal with DDoS every day and nastier stuff, so they are probably not naïve... But, you never know...:)

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 9:06 AM

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Lol

#

That rlly makes it challenging

#

So u cant just get theyr games appid, put it in a diff game and fuck it up?

gleaming prawn Nov 20, 2019, 9:27 AM

#

They have no App ID

#

lol

#

There's no such concept in their game.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 9:29 AM

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Loool

#

Nice

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 9:48 AM

#

I wonder if they patched the serversides shits

gleaming prawn Nov 20, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

It's not the same logic

#

I don't think they even have the same kind of issues.

#

I think all the things you work on top are relying on simple features from the load-balancing/plugin approach (for client based apps), which is not what they use.

stray scroll Nov 20, 2019, 10:34 AM

#

@raw wigeon With the naming I thought it was using the actual NetCode :/ , gj and gl

raw wigeon Nov 20, 2019, 11:36 AM

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@stray scroll i wish haha

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 12:39 PM

#

Oh

#

I see

#

Well that makes things harder

#

Or diff from what i am used to

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 3:37 PM

#

what should I use for encoding packets?

jade glacier Nov 20, 2019, 4:18 PM

#

you mean for compression? or encryption?

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

compression @jade glacier

jade glacier Nov 20, 2019, 6:33 PM

#

Byte packing using your writer, or bitpacking. You can try to compress the whole thing with an RLE as well, but not sure if people have found that to be particularly effective or quick.

#

I personally bitpack everything

#

https://github.com/emotitron/BitpackingTools
and
https://github.com/emotitron/TransformCrusher
Are what I use for all of my stuff. There are a lot of bitpackers out there.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

@final depot I'm not going to pull game data through http requests that is supposed to be local in the first place

#

That literally makes no sense

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

@weak plinth sorry what's the context for this again, sort of got lost along the way

#

Looking back: I think you were suggesting Entity Framework or Hibernate within Unity and settling on SQLite usage.

#

If it's entirely local, that's probably a good choice, albiet I'm not sure how GC friendly a string based SQLite connector will be.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

I wasn't suggesting

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

But the qusetion was about non-realtime networked play.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

I was asking if it was possible

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

To which I was suggesting just use a HTTP server instead.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Yes, but no

#

I want to get my data today

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Or a websocket enabled HTTP server

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Might as well use just TCP if you're at it

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

If the game is not realtime, I don't see a problem in the latency of HTTP

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Needless overhead

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

It simplifies deployment and devops given how much existing work there is around web infrastructure.

#

Hell, people use Firebase which is HTTP/websocket based for even lightly realtime operations all the time.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

Doesn't mean it's good

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

It depends on the use case

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:30 PM

#

Rather needless to pretty much wrap your database in a rest endpoint

#

Either access your data via a server that actually handles the data

#

Or access it directly

#

No needless middle-step http

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:31 PM

#

So you're suggesting a direct client <-> remote database connection?

#

For a networked game?

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

Yes, because your client should be a server

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:32 PM

#

Depends on the scale and scope of the game

#

I definitely wouldn't apply this for a game like Pokemon Go

#

which, btw, does use the aformentioned architecture.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:33 PM

#

Want to bet it's not just a http server

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:33 PM

#

If it's a direct turn-based 1v1 game, by all means, skip the server entirely.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

In cases like pokemon go, and pretty much every case, that server isn't just a http middle man

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:34 PM

#

Even in that case, TCP is fine. the latency of a turn-based game supercedes any connection latency you could have.

#

Especially if there's only one handshake

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

http isn't just tcp

#

Don't compare them as equal

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:35 PM

#

Yes it isn't, but you decried TCP as a issue earlier, which I thought I'd also address.

#

But again, I don't see an issue with HTTP for non-realtime networked games. Particularly since web developerss, devops, and available infrastructural support are in abundance.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

I do, since it's needless

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:38 PM

#

Another thing I think I should address is that HTTP/3 is UDP based.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:39 PM

#

If there's no business logic on that http server, it's pretty much doing nothing

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:39 PM

#

And uses a protocol that is very similar to that of Valve's GameNetworkingSockets.

#

If you need it for authentication, authorization, input validation, etc.

#

yes, you need that HTTP server.

#

Lest you directly let clients arbitrarily call DROP TABLE ....;

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:41 PM

#

But then it's not just a http server anymore

#

It actually has a purpose in that case

#

Also, if we're talking localDB, something like SQLite is obviously better

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:45 PM

#

Wait what do you mean "not just an HTTP server anymore." Those seem like pretty standard features developers bake into those kinds of servers?

#

In fact, pretty much every HTTP server framework I know of offers some variation of those features.

#

If you are talking entirely local for a P2P game turn based game, I wouldn't even use SQLite and just manage my own in-memory state.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:48 PM

#

Depends on how much extra time you want to spend on a propietary sollution that might end up in spaghetti and or poor performance

final depot Nov 20, 2019, 8:50 PM

#

In what way is this proprietary? I was under the impression pretty much the entire stack is open source now.

#

Save for maybe your Unity client.

#

Insofar as performance goes, yes it'd be an issue if yo uare firing multiple requests per action

#

But if you have control over both the server and the client. I don't see how you couldn't make each action in the game just another endpoint and atomically apply operations on the game state.

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 8:55 PM

#

Yeah, nvm. Much context was missed here

weak plinth Nov 20, 2019, 10:09 PM

#

Whats the topic

#

Seems to much to read

#

Tcp

#

Its a really nice protocol

#

Not nice

#

But good

#

And u do t get data loss

#

Dont*

drowsy quarry Nov 20, 2019, 11:21 PM

#

I really have this one question I couldn't find answer for on the internet... I know games like FPS does things like client-side prediction, interpolation, delta compression, lag compensation, etc to combat latency issues. How about games like Diablo (ARPG). Do these big companies try to synchronize all clients for every single monster models running around in the screen? If so, how do they achieve this? Just periodic updates from server with massive states of all the moving parts?

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 7:08 AM

#

IMO , it could be just an animation, and once the players are on enemies sight, they receive the animation of the player aswell, and position gets updated every frame

#

If what i said isnt correct, correct me bois

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 8:41 AM

#

I think the players dont even get rendered if you're x amount away

maiden sundial Nov 21, 2019, 11:34 AM

#

Hello,

Every player in my game have their own Ray how do i send this Ray to the server?

Iam using photon2

Can provide more information if needed, thanks!

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 12:08 PM

#

Every player in my game have their own Ray how do i send this Ray to the server?
Which server? You can send data to the other clients in PUN/PUN2

maiden sundial Nov 21, 2019, 12:30 PM

#

@gleaming prawn PUN2 Thanks for answering!

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 12:31 PM

#

You do have access to a server plugin (that you can write in C#) if you have photon enterprise, but that is normally better suited with either photon realtime or Quantum (which are designed with server logic in mind)

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

what does photon use for packet compression 🤔

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 1:35 PM

#

Photon Realtime, the low level transport layer, nothing... then the individual HL products use different things:

PUN doesn't do compression unless you do;
Photon Quantum uses a few different compression methods on the input batches. Snapshots can be compressed however the developer wants as well;
Photon Bolt has its own delta compression mechanisms embedded...

#

But they are all custom compression methods developed for each use case. Not an off-the-shelf library.

#

Photon Realtime has the option to enable Encryption to all messages by default though...

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

does anyone did Bandwidth optimization by limiting network streams redundancy ?
(im new to Networking)
im trying to optimize client & server bandwidth by limiting the streams sent from both sides, each time the client sends a message (inputs) i add it to a ring buffer with X elements then i try to see if all elements contains the same message values, if true then i just dont put the current message into the outgoingMessageBuffer.
in client side it's just awesome cause it optimises a lot the Bandwidth without even noticing it, eg when a player is running into the same direction or his just not moving it automatically stop sending message after about 1.5second.
in server side it's more complicated because the server is sending custom messages to each player about all players around him so if the server stop sending messages about specific players a new arriving player in the current area will not be updated about them. so the muted ones need to save informations about notified players. it gets a litle bit complecated XD so im here to ask if anyone already did it and if there is any good approach to do it.

graceful zephyr Nov 21, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

that's a pretty common technique

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Because you are using state transfer, I guess you need scheduling

graceful zephyr Nov 21, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

especially for games with larger player counts

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

To limit server bandwidth

#

So even players who need to receive info about a lot of "entities" would receive each entity updated data "keyframe" in more spaced intervals, while keeping bandwidth bellow a defined threshold

#

Removing redundancy is nice as well, of course... It's a form of "delta compression" in the end, right?

#

(there are different definitions/flavors of delta-compression)

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 1:51 PM

#

that's reassuring, i never seen this approach in any website so by implementing it from scratch i thought it maybe presents hiden bugs XD

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

You won't see most of the more complex stuff on websites...:)

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

🙂 that's awesome thanks!

#

im limiting the stream redundancy to 20 duplicated messages, is it ok or should i be more greedy about Bandwidth XD

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

If you are bitpacking, you can inline bools to indicate things like that @dapper night

#

I abuse the hell out of inline bools in my serialization

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:21 PM

#

sorry @jade glacier im new to networking, by bitpacking you mean the whole message pack or boolean values ?

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

How are you serializing your stuff now?

#

With a buffer and Write() methods?

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

Try to limit individual packets to < 900 bytes or so (to fit into 1 UDP datagram, no fragments)... And server->client frequency can be something between 10 to 60Hz or even 120Hz (depends on the game actually)

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

for the moment im serializing all my structs by their primitive. float are Quantized to 1000, 2 joysticks are compessed to 4 bytes and messages concernes are sent as an int. my game cant have a maximum number of 32 players for the moment so if i want to send messages about player 1, 5, 9 20 i just these indexes bits in the concernes value. (ECS is halping me alot with it's linear data)

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:27 PM

#

But you are getting those into you a byte[] somehow. What lib are you using?

#

Sounds like you might be letting a HLAPI do it for you

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

im using Datastreams from the unity transport package

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

ah, haven't looked at that - so no clue what they are doing

#

Do they have Write() methods and a buffer?

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

DataStreamWriter and DataStreamReader

#

yep

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

Ah, so probably all byte aligned

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

yes

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:30 PM

#

No fun in that 😛

#

Other option if its all byte aligned is to include a mask

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

yes im including masks when sized messages are written to the buffer

#

i saw in some blogs people are compressing to bit Level i didnt get hwo it works

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

same as with byte level

#

it just has more going on behind the scenes to dance around the byte alignment

#

instead or writing and reading bytes from a buffer... you read and write bits

#

but for ECS stuff, that might not be your friend

#

It makes hand serializing really easy

#

either way, sounds like if you are using masks and such you are doing the same thing

#

making markers that indicate what is in the stream

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

for the moment i think my optimization is anough for my game type.
for a 6mn game ( 3 players ) the server Bandwidth is about 0.5MB , (without incliding server side streams redundancy)

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:37 PM

#

https://github.com/emotitron/BitpackingTools

That's my bitpacker, there are a lot like it out there. But I do have some documentation on that page that should give you the idea of what it is doing

#

Your main enemy as Erick mentioned is the MTU

#

If you are keeping your packets under that, you are doing well

#

start needing multiple packets per tick, you need to start getting more creative

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

ow that's awesome Thanks @jade glacier

#

i have a noob question, by optimizing the Bandwidth does it authorize me to increase the tick rate or should i take more options in consideration ?

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

Tick rate generates more packets, but it does affect latency

#

so its a whole spreadsheet of considerations

#

there are factors like how you are managing your buffer, since the higher tick rates let you run a smaller buffer (in terms of ms) but you may have to increase the buffered number of ticks to stay on top of jitter. Though eventually you should write in some adaptive buffer sizing code, so that you are always running as close to 1 tick of buffer as possible.

#

Then there are server costs

#

and just CPU limits based on the number of connections

#

and if you have to start using a priortization engine to keep your packets under MTU... and how much that is going to struggle at high ticks... and on and on.

#

So basically... don't try to answer that yet. Its kind of a big question

#

I would finger in the air it with "Does this feel acceptable" and get as low as you can with that in mind. You will always be trying to get away with using the least data possible to get the feel you want.

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:49 PM

#

ow i get it! that's exactly the answer i was looking for ^_^.
for the moment im using ENet for the networking stuff, im checking and sending messages 60/s but filling outgoing buffers at a lower rate (in FixedUpdate) .

#

so generally i send messages the same frame they got written and process them the same frame they are received (60/s)

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

My default settings for my asset is fixed rate of 50 per second and sending every 3rd tick

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

i think ill test my server at a lower fps and see how it works it can be really benefic for server costs 🙂

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

I tend to dev at low fixed and send every rates

#

it makes it easier to spot weirdness and frame dependences and such

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

@dapper night server costs will be HIGH... That's one of the reasons why I do not agree when people say what we offer is expensive...:)

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:15 PM

#

I have gotten into lively debates with some net lib makers on here about that - who think that data is cheap and optimization of data is a waste of time, as it creates CPU usage.

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:15 PM

#

That's a trade of

#

You need a fine balance

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:16 PM

#

CPU usage is a concern, but the scales lean heavily in favor of not making bloated packets I have found

#

PUN2 implodes when you exceed 1 packet

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:16 PM

#

It's more on the line that:

FPS-style authoritative server is a LOT more expensive than other options (unless you are not paying for the server costs, like player hosted games);

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:16 PM

#

CPU usage got crushing compared to the cost of bitpacking to stay under the MTU

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

Bloated (UDP) packages don't make sense, and don't scale (on the contrary, it's a death spiral) no matter the transport layer you use...

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

with 50 characters with transform/animator syncs... PUN2 needed to create 3 packets and bitpacked it was just one... and the CPU difference was massive

#

So, not scientific

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

transport layers like ENet alow you to send beefy messages, but that doesn't mean you should do that in runtime every tick...

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

but it was a massive difference

#

bitpacking won by a landslide

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:18 PM

#

PUN2 doesn't schedule updates AFAIK.

#

Neither does compression (except for basic delta compression I think), so ...

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

PUN actually forces a new packet every 20 net object writes

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

To avoid MTU I guess

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

Which came out about right coincidently

#

packets were about 900 bytes

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Yeah, it's an educated guess... the 20

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Not sure how or why 20 was arrived at

#

but a transform and an animator produced about that

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Tests with the most common use cases...

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

seems so

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 4:02 PM

#

Whats le topic

dapper night Nov 21, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

@gleaming prawn for the moment our team (army of 4) found that kubernetes fits our needs with it's free 300$ trail and agones library to manipulate the game servers easly.
we are also looking for a server provider that have low costs and as less a possible downtimes.
we are hosting our Social,Store Server in contabo but downtimes are really frequent.(daily)

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

Then

#

U could try getting sdk

#

Which you can edit the ss by your self

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

The thing @dapper night is that as soon as you have real players and the numbers grow... Bang...

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

And make as less downsides as posskble

#

Possible

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

Social,Store Servers normally are fine with these options, the load in there is not nearly as high as the game servers (specially if you run headless authoritative servers)

#

This becomes super expensive...

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

How much would photon quantum cost?

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

It's on our website

#

1K/month for SDK access

#

Or you can pay 4-5k / month for a (good) developer to write something similar over 3 years or more..::)

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 4:32 PM

#

way too many people reinventing that wheel for how hard it is to do right

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 4:34 PM

#

And not finishing...

#

Just read this interview on ars technica: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/11/interview-with-guilty-gear-creator-daisuke-ishiwatari/
And the guy says he does not have rollback netcode because he said they would need a super programmer (I guess he needs a better engine that supports that by default).

weak plinth Nov 21, 2019, 4:40 PM

#

Hire AI's

#

Problem solved

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

There are just not enough great game networking people in the world vs the number of people who want to make net games

#

That and most net games fall into some very common archetypes... which make them very conducive to just using a premade library

gleaming prawn Nov 21, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

I think the reason is another

#

Single player, local multiplayer games do not COST to the developer over time much (with infra-structure)... Games run on the player machines...

#

Multiplayer games have an inherent cost that people just don't think about when they say: I'll write an MMO.

#

Premade libraries EXIST, and many of them are free, some are good as well....

#

But how many good online games exist from smaller developers? (they exist, but not a lot).

#

The business model is totally different. Reason is not technical.

jade glacier Nov 21, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

Good point

#

The tail on MP is a bit longer and messier

faint fern Nov 21, 2019, 9:34 PM

#

Anyone have the new links to the new Unity3D Networking information. I see some stuff pinned, but it doesn't look updated.

graceful zephyr Nov 21, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

@faint fern thats still the latest

faint fern Nov 21, 2019, 10:39 PM

#

@graceful zephyr what about this talk?

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_-FoJuaYOI

YouTube

Unity

Introduction to the DOTS Sample and the NetCode that drives it - U...

Dive deep into the networked future of Unity using DOTS. Hear how we made the DOTS Sample a networked game, and what we learned on the way. Speaker: Tim Joha...

▶ Play video

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I feel like there is more here I'm just not seeing

delicate sorrel Nov 22, 2019, 12:20 AM

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https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/sampleproject/Assets/NetCode/Documentation~/quickstart.md

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

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@faint fern

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 9:17 AM

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Is it possible to add extended build platforms in unity e.g. for servers to mark assemblies to be included in? I.e. I want to have both all of my different servers and client in same project, but be able to build the different executables with different assemblies. I see you can tick by platform, but not sure if you can extend this list?

gleaming prawn Nov 22, 2019, 9:19 AM

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That's a good question... But I never see the Unity guys answering here.

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 9:23 AM

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Maybe there is a better way to do this? I don't know.

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I just figured there are some pros of having them in same project, and now with ECS and multiple worlds it feels like a neat option.

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 9:53 AM

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@stray scroll asmdefs have a setting for 'Define Constraints' which are like preprocessor defs but on assembly level

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so you could put UNITY_EDITOR and it'd only be included in editor

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or anything you define yourself in build

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 9:53 AM

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Thanks a lot!

gleaming prawn Nov 22, 2019, 10:06 AM

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Thanks

winter solstice Nov 22, 2019, 10:40 AM

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Does anyone here have some informations about Unity UNET 2.0 (connected games netword) and a possible release date ?

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or if there is a chance to try it, on the actual state, cause the sample project is so broken

gleaming prawn Nov 22, 2019, 10:41 AM

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There will be no UNet2 AFAIK

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What they are working on is DOTS netcode, and that's essentially it

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That's what is being stated with all the samples and blog posts (all of them posted here as well BTW)

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It will not be even remotely close to what UNet was...

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It's a different approach, more focused on high performance and less on simplicity of use.

winter solstice Nov 22, 2019, 11:38 AM

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yeah yeah, i know all this already, but still it's a middleware that fit well with DOTS as it will be made for it

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i am not asking for what it will be, but on when we will be able to try it out really with a proper doc

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 11:47 AM

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@winter solstice No proper doc, you can watch the vids on youtube and try it out https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer . Some things will change in the next update, I would assume it comes with 2019.3, and that is struggling to be released afaik, as it should've been released already. Most likely before next year?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 12:07 PM

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i have a webserver, I want to connect my unity project to that server and read the account/password for a login system. I cant seem to find anything that is working. any help is apreciated

brazen cairn Nov 22, 2019, 12:32 PM

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I would like to control my unity 3d software via a webpage. for that it would be handy, to host the webpage over my project because of CORS. What can I do to use an already built webpage in a unity 3d software. At the moment I build listeners and stuff by myself, which is ugly, unhandy and doesn't support the REST API ...

faint fern Nov 22, 2019, 12:47 PM

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@brazen cairn this has been done a bunch of different ways over the years. Some have used a tcp client, I was just actually looking for Discord hooks into Unity3D.

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Since Discord is so popular as of late.

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:05 PM

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@solar tendon UnityWebRequest?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 1:08 PM

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@stray scroll yea i realized that im not having an issue with unity but rather with the form on the site

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:28 PM

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@azure quail Maybe you know this as well, but I have now made two defines for Server.asmdef and Client.asmdef, both uses Mixed.asmdef which in turn uses Base.asmdef . I've turned off Auto Referenced on Mixed & Base, because those are referenced in Server & Client .asmdef and shouldn't be included without either of them being included. But now the compiler doesn't find code from Base.asmdef in Mixed.asmdef . Is there some concept I've misunderstood here?

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Or is this one of those cases where I must have them defined in the project, but the build will be fine?

winter solstice Nov 22, 2019, 1:34 PM

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i feel a bit frustrated as we are starting a new networking project, and i feel like the new Unity network system is about to be released.... it would be such a pain in the ass to start a project and see the new vrsion being release 2 week after

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but thx anyway @stray scroll btw the repo you sent : https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

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is fully bugged

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with 2019.3

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and the last update was 4 month ago 😢

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:37 PM

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I'm using 2019.2.12f1 and it works, there are some "bugs", but you can work around them. However next release won't be production ready, so if your release date is close, I wouldn't start there.

winter solstice Nov 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

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no close release date, just starting a new game

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

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Mixed.asmdef has a reference to Base.asmdef? that should work

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

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I'm going to redo the process then.

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

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to be clear you gave it a reference in Assembly Definition References on the Mixed.asmdef right?

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and also not the other way around

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

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{ Client, Server } => Mixed
{ Client, Server, Mixed} => Base

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

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hmm

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i think that should work

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unless Base is somehow not being included

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

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Hmm, ok it seems to work now.

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

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noice

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sometimes you might need to restart while fiddling with asmdef's because unity's dll handling seems to be weird sometimes

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like dll's not unloading once they are loaded even when you delete them from the project

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until you restart unity

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

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Yeah ok, something is still off. When I have no defines, it still includes Mixed and Base into the Player assemblies.

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:50 PM

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what is the Player assemblies

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:51 PM

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using UnityEditor;
using UnityEditor.Compilation;

public static class AssemblyLister
{

    [MenuItem("Tools/List Player Assemblies in Console")]
    public static void PrintAssemblyNames()

    {
        UnityEngine.Debug.Log("== Player Assemblies ==");
        Assembly[] playerAssemblies = 
            CompilationPipeline.GetAssemblies(AssembliesType.Player);

        foreach (var assembly in playerAssemblies)
        {
            UnityEngine.Debug.Log(assembly.name);
        }
    }
}

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Wished Unity would've named it differently x)

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:52 PM

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huh didn't know that was a thing

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so Player means build in this context then?

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

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Yeah

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You can choose Player or Editor

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:57 PM

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just tested your script and seems to work for me

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tho that's without any references to other assemblies

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:58 PM

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Yeah, so I can see in the logs that Client, Server - assemblies are not included. But Base and Mixed are.

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 1:59 PM

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what do Base and Mixed look like

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the asmdefs

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 1:59 PM

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And only amsdef:s in my Asset folder that have Auto Reference ticked are dots NetCode and Wwise, which both doesn't reference any of the other.

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📎 unknown.png

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:01 PM

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hmmm looks fine

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oh

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i dunno if you just removed them for testing but if you don't set any define constraints they'll always be included

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 2:02 PM

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Oh, isn't that what Auto Reference solves?

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

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i think auto reference just makes it so it's referenced from the normal assembly (like putting scripts in Assets) but i could be wrong

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lemme test that

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yea that seems to be what it does

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naming isn't really clear

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 2:05 PM

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Humm

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So are constraints || or && ?

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:06 PM

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&&

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seems you can also put a ! in front for requiring it to be undefined

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 2:10 PM

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Ugh, so I need to have 1 define for client, 1 for server, 1 for mixed and base ?

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:13 PM

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hmmm

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 2:14 PM

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Then if I add another server, like Login, I'll need to create 3 new defines, {login, commonServer, commonClient} .. what if unity just added some logic to the defines x)

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:16 PM

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yea i'm not sure how to get around that

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i'd def make an editor script to make this easier tho if you're gonna have so many different build types

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like something that automatically sets defines through a button/dropdown

maiden sundial Nov 22, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Anyone familiar with photon. I have done alot but just recently found its all on the client side. As soon as a second player joins nothing gets sent to serverside. Is this a huge hazzle, is it smarter to start over and get it right from the start? I have movement syncronized but other stuff such as pushing a button and doors is not syncronized and iam not sure how to do that.

Any help is appreciated
Thanks!

azure quail Nov 22, 2019, 2:29 PM

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@stray scroll btw if you set the platform to Editor unity won't let you add the monobehaviours to a scene (i guess it doesn't check Editor marked assemblies) but if you do a UNITY_EDITOR define it will

thx for bringing this thing up, i ran into the issue earlier when trying to make benchmark scenes but didn't realize defines could be the solution

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 6:56 PM

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How can I get a confirm/deny message from a webpage when using wwwform to submit a username and password. I get no errors in unity however I can’t seem to figure out how to get a response reading from the post. Any help appreciated

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Note: what I’m trying to do is use my webserver login system to weigh the account is active when logging into my game in unity,

maiden sundial Nov 22, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Hey! I created a script that removes whatever the player is leftclicking at. When my friends join and deletes something on his side it works sometimes on the serverside and sometimes not. Any idea why? Iam using Photon

📎 097a850fa65b6f0ef1f62908bb1cb520.png

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:00 PM

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@solar tendon This is one of my systems that does it. I use php on the web side to echo out info. https://pastebin.com/ysCu3eHS

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@maiden sundial The RPC code will trigger one each client? So if they're not hovering the object it wont be removed?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:02 PM

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I was hoping that after submitting the username password that right there in the c# script on unity it could tell me “correct” or “incorrect” for password and teach accordingly, is that something possible?

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:04 PM

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You want to stall the main thread until you get a response back from server which might take several milliseconds or seconds even?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:06 PM

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Yes. All I want is a nice “success” of “failure” step notification

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Or*

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String*

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iPhones + fat fingers = frustration

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Ideally I’d like to be able to
Post username;
Post password;
Wait however long
Get response if password was ok or not

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:08 PM

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I'm not sure but I guess you can do a while(requestOperation.isDone == false) { } ?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:09 PM

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Yea, the issue I’m having is detecting the success or failure based on whether the password/username successfully logs in

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:09 PM

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You can use coroutines as well, but I guess you don't want that as well.

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But what are you doing on your web side then?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:10 PM

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Registration of accounts and housing that data (username/password) in a DB

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:10 PM

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in php?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:12 PM

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Yea

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:12 PM

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so just echo 0 if it's success and 1 if not?

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:12 PM

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How would I go about getting it to echo?

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:14 PM

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I'm a php newbie, but this is how I do things. https://pastebin.com/YvfJYhw7

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:15 PM

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And that goes in unity project or webserver?

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:15 PM

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webserver

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It checks the DB if row exists of the credentials, from IsValidSession functions.

solar tendon Nov 22, 2019, 10:17 PM

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Ok ok right on thanks man, I’ll definitely give that a shot

stray scroll Nov 22, 2019, 10:17 PM

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Then from UnityWebRequest..downloadHandler.text you get the response you have to parse.

livid spear Nov 22, 2019, 10:43 PM

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Does Unity have a dedicated server able to be built from editor like Unreal does? I'm thinking on making the switch to Unity but if it doesn't have Dedicated server support then I can't...

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Or if there is another way

final depot Nov 22, 2019, 11:26 PM

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There are headless builds if you want it

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Though management and deployment of multiple sessions is basically, as far as I can tell, 1:1

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So you'll need something to orchestrate game sessions

livid spear Nov 23, 2019, 12:05 AM

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Ah yeah like a master server?

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To send info between and push players to the game server etc?

final depot Nov 23, 2019, 2:29 AM

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If you need a relay server or just something to coordinate clients

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You can make that without Unity

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I would suggest using Unity as a server only if you need the Unity game loop

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Or other Unity systems

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On the server as a source of authoritative simulation

livid spear Nov 23, 2019, 5:06 AM

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🤔

left ember Nov 23, 2019, 9:46 AM

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Hello. I have a question:

I want to make an app that access a website, search its products, save images (optional), name and price of the selected items on a wishlist. I'm trying to learn about web request command but i can't understand how it works. Can someone please enlighten me? Thank you

left ember Nov 23, 2019, 2:50 PM

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Anybody?

stray scroll Nov 23, 2019, 2:52 PM

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@left ember I answered something about web request like 5 messages up, is your question unity related?

warped urchin Nov 23, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Hey all, I've got a two questions / issues (I am using UNET).

My player UI shows up for all players. Is this a camera problem or can I simply solve it with isLocalPlayer? Ie if the player is not local then hide the UI? At the moment I just have one camera per scene.
Whats the best way to make line renderers visible on a network? I can spawn in projectiles but am having trouble with line renderers.
Thanks.

delicate sorrel Nov 23, 2019, 7:45 PM

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Anyone else get ClientServerBootstrap interface error when using multiplayer netcode?

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Looks like the hybrid renderer API has changed and the ClientServerWorld.cs hasn't been updated

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Anyone fixed this on their own?

stray scroll Nov 23, 2019, 9:57 PM

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I haven't tried netcode the newest released ECS update no.

arctic forum Nov 23, 2019, 10:32 PM

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well since in #💻┃code-beginner i get no answers ill post here as well

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https://pastebin.com/YsYK58ye
I try to use photon with playfab and since i want to get a token for both chat and realtime i try to call the above after requesting the playfabId

Pastebin

PlayFabClientAPI.GetPhotonAuthenticationToken(new GetPhotonAuthent...

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but the second one is never called any ideas?

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@ me if you find any solution

weak plinth Nov 23, 2019, 11:39 PM

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I'm using Mirror Networking (which is UNET, but more up to date), but I am stuck with a predicament. I'm creating a 2D sandbox game, with procedural generation, but I don't know how to sync the generation and any world modifications to clients.

gray pond Nov 24, 2019, 2:05 PM

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@weak plinth We can help you in Mirror's discord

arctic forum Nov 24, 2019, 5:29 PM

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I fixed it by adding a boolean to switch on second token on update()

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so if anyone is against that or has a better suggestion tell me

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though now the chat is fully functional from what i can tell.

winged veldt Nov 24, 2019, 7:31 PM

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anyone here knows how to use firebase database?

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im having a trouble with getting jsons

burnt axle Nov 24, 2019, 9:28 PM

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@winged veldt Strange, i was just gonna ask a question regarding firebase lol

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Is firebase the best option to store scoreboards? And should i store results to the cloud in the game or in the lobby after a game session? Im thinking that storing results in a game can cause some performance issues with extra network requests

winged veldt Nov 24, 2019, 10:55 PM

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meh

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if you are doing a tiny game just dont use a scorboard based on a database

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is easier to use google play services

burnt axle Nov 24, 2019, 11:08 PM

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Right, i thought about that service earlier but overlooked it. Does it provide any analytics or reports about crashes? I saw firebase had this, not sure if i need it atm but it would probably be nice to have to optimize the game further.

winged veldt Nov 24, 2019, 11:37 PM

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honestly idk, but it does his work

arctic forum Nov 25, 2019, 7:17 AM

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Playfab also stores user scoreboard

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But don't know if it can work with Google services

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Needs research

merry kite Nov 25, 2019, 8:18 AM

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what is best photon engine or other staff

arctic forum Nov 25, 2019, 9:09 AM

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i use photon but dont know about the others

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cause im using playfab to authenticate

karmic void Nov 25, 2019, 9:46 AM

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https://80.lv/articles/coherence-raises-usd2-5-million/

Coherence Raises $2.5 Million

Swedish team has raised $2.5 million to develop an open-source platform that will help boost connected game development.

karmic void Nov 25, 2019, 11:34 AM

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Hello! Anyone use KCP for Unity: https://github.com/KumoKyaku/KCP ?

GitHub

KumoKyaku/KCP

KCP C#版。线程安全，运行时无alloc，对gc无压力。. Contribute to KumoKyaku/KCP development by creating an account on GitHub.

graceful zephyr Nov 25, 2019, 12:21 PM

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@karmic void Any reason you're posting random articles/githubs without any messages? lol 😄

karmic void Nov 25, 2019, 12:28 PM

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First article is about Coherence, second is a question. Anyone use KCP in Unity?

graceful zephyr Nov 25, 2019, 12:28 PM

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only one using KCP i know of is Improbable

karmic void Nov 25, 2019, 12:30 PM

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Interesting. It is better than UDP? What the difference?

graceful zephyr Nov 25, 2019, 12:38 PM

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KCP is reliable, trades bandwidth for latency

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KCP is built on top of UDP

karmic void Nov 25, 2019, 1:00 PM

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@graceful zephyr Thank you for you info...

burnt axle Nov 25, 2019, 4:16 PM

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Is there a good tutorial on how to set up the social api? It says it uses the default gamecenter depending on the platform, but it seems like i still have to considering if the user is on android or ios because the leadeboard ID is different since google has game play services and ios has gamecenter (im assuming i need to create a leaderbord ID for each gamecenter in order to sync data relative to my game)

lucid stag Nov 25, 2019, 7:41 PM

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Hello fellow developers!

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This is not very Unity related but more of HTTP

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So in HTTP Status Codes 301 means "Moved Permanently"

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Does that overwrite my domain to the new domain?

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Because I have a friend using HTTP 301 to redirect user traffic rather than 207 "Temporary Redirect"

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:36 AM

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"Fall (Q3) this year: Preview DOTS-Netcode will be available sometime this fall providing a server-authoritative stack, including entity serialization, delta compression, forward prediction, and interpolation. Given the Preview state, developers should still expect breaking changes to the API surface until the stack achieves verified state."

Has this "Preview DOTS-Netcode" been released yet, or are we still waiting?

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 12:36 AM

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not released yet

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But the update to entities package is out

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:38 AM

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What is the entities package?

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 12:39 AM

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Thats what DOTS uses.. the Entity Component System (ECS) with their jobs system. Basically they are contents of the DOTS

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https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.entities@0.2/manual/index.html

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:40 AM

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ok, so an update was made to DOTS but the new netcode is not yet available

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 12:40 AM

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exactly..

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:40 AM

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Thank you!

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 12:40 AM

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The other samples that use that entities package is not out yet which includes the netcode

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:41 AM

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So the FPS sample is not using the preview dots netcode?

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 12:41 AM

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The current fps sample uses the older code. They are going to release the new one which uses the new package pretty soon now I think.

candid sorrel Nov 26, 2019, 12:42 AM

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OK, thank's for the info, I look forward to trying it when it comes out!

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I think I'll lay low and learn about DOTS while I wait...

jade wharf Nov 26, 2019, 4:59 PM

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so is DOTS actually available via package manager or what

vagrant relic Nov 26, 2019, 5:48 PM

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yes. Just enable preview packages in the package manager and you should see it.

stray scroll Nov 26, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Weird when you're asking for "DOTS" in networking channel, Entities package is available yes, but not DOTS netcode.

jade wharf Nov 26, 2019, 6:22 PM

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yea it was the netcode specifically i wanted to check out

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is it available in the 2020 alpha build?

grand wasp Nov 26, 2019, 6:39 PM

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it's not out yet.

The latest Entities package has dropped (0.2.0*) but nothing else from the FPS demo at Unite copenhagen (animation, netcode) has released yet

graceful zephyr Nov 26, 2019, 6:43 PM

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@jade wharf it's not out yet, wait a couple of weeks

jade wharf Nov 26, 2019, 8:10 PM

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Rip

burnt axle Nov 26, 2019, 8:58 PM

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@lucid stag It depends on what the 301 redirect adress is. Usually 301 just redirects domain on http to https for safety purposes.

#

Anyone familiar with the Unity Social API? Im trying to figure out how it works with Google Play Services and IOS Gamecenter

stray scroll Nov 26, 2019, 9:22 PM

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It's happening! 😮 Soon ™️
https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.netcode
https://bintray.com/unity/unity/com.unity.transport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0

YouTube

Amordril

Hell, It's about time.

I just wanted this quote to link to my friends constantly when they should have done something a long time ago :P

▶ Play video

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Or well, you can already download manually if you can't wait x) But not in package manager yet of what I can see. ;; I knew it would be release just as I can't work on my project for a few days sobs

hallow comet Nov 26, 2019, 9:39 PM

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Asking for console development: Will voice chat be supported through the new networking subsystem?

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Like in, if NAT punch fails for P2P voice chat, the PSN / XBoxLive relays will be used. Anyone know? I would greatly appreciate, thanks.

#

(not trying to start a scary console NDA discussion here, just a yes / no answer will suffice)

stray scroll Nov 26, 2019, 9:51 PM

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Not sure what you are asking. Are you talking about Dots netcode?

hallow comet Nov 26, 2019, 10:03 PM

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I'm not familiar with Dots, but I'm pretty sure it isn't directly related to online services for consoles.

lucid stag Nov 26, 2019, 10:03 PM

#

@burnt axle Kk

hallow comet Nov 26, 2019, 10:06 PM

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@stray scroll Right now if you do a console game with UNet LLAPI (for transport only) and dedicated servers, you'll still have to solve encryption, ping and voice chat.

#

Voice chat is the only thing left to do and requires to implement the networking subsystems of the consoles to leverage the PSN and XBoxLive cloud (so we won't pay anything for voice bandwidth)

#

This is a game in Unity 2017 and we want to know if it helps to upgrade to 2019. Is there anything in the works for voice chat support?

stray scroll Nov 26, 2019, 10:11 PM

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No, not that I have heard off yet. Also the new network system is based on ECS so that might be a problem too.

hallow comet Nov 26, 2019, 10:13 PM

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Oh ok. I'll try to e-mail support and see if anything is in the works. A year ago they didn't know if they'll add it or when. Thanks for the help!

worldly cedar Nov 26, 2019, 10:49 PM

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Hey all, I am experimenting with the new transport layer, and whilst everything works in editor, as soon as I build I get a 'plugin expected x86 architecture, got x64'. I have check the com.unity.transport folder, found the dll but it has all checkboxes ticked. Any ideas?

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(its the networkbindings.dll btw)

worldly cedar Nov 26, 2019, 11:15 PM

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sorted mine. (need to change the setting in build settings :P)

faint fern Nov 26, 2019, 11:21 PM

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@worldly cedar Let us know how it goes

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I'm interested in hearing more

worldly cedar Nov 27, 2019, 12:06 AM

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Its actually going fairly well (im pleasantly surprised at this point). The layer is low level, doesnt hold your hand that much, but it does cover up all the memory management and core networking that I want to avoid. Ive got transforms and rotations syncing across a central server. Im a VR programmer, so I'm going to spend some time over the next week setting up a simple VR networking system, see how I go.

faint fern Nov 27, 2019, 12:15 AM

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I want to see how you interpret it

#

Let me know when you get your demo going

#

@worldly cedar

worldly cedar Nov 27, 2019, 12:21 AM

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Will do :)

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 10:42 AM

#

I'm learning C# for unity at the moment but it seems no matter where I look it's all single player tutorials. What is different between single player and multiplayer when it comes to C# for Unity? Like what should I search for when it comes to guides?

I want to learn the server authoritive kind of c#

I was thinking on using Photon or Atavism or something as server software but I think I still need to network my code to allow it to talk to the server right?

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 10:48 AM

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If you are still learning to program, I think you should really consider finishing a (single player, simple) game before venturing into multiplayer...

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 10:56 AM

#

I just don't want to relearn stuff if I can help it.

#

I see there's a new networking system coming in. I guess if I spend the time to learn the workflow of Unity and C# I can later update my knowledge once the new system gets released?

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:05 AM

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Really, trust us. Just take your time to learn solid foundations. Not really more to say, sorry.

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:05 AM

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Ok

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Any recommendations on good tutorials to learn Unity besides the ones from Unity directly?

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Paid or free, either one

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🤔

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:08 AM

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I'd say it depends a lot on your goals.

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:09 AM

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I'm looking to make a Isometric Action RPG a bit like Path of Exile

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:09 AM

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What do you want to do?

develop games just for fun?
become a professional (if yes, a programmer, a game designer?);
develop games in a small team or alone (if on a team, which role like above?)

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:09 AM

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As my final product

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:09 AM

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Each path would require more or less proficiency in programming (which is something you need YEARS to get, there's no shortcut)

#

Isometric Action RPG a bit like Path of Exile
Multiplayer?

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Alone?

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

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Was hoping for multiplayer but you recommended single player for my first game which makes sense I guess so I'll say single player.

Alone for the coding and functionality, hoping to find someone later for graphical assets

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

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If you aim to be a programmer

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Start by learning C (not even C#)

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

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Yep

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I know some cpp

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:11 AM

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sole programmer... Sorry to disapoint you, but this will take you some time.

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But yeah, start with single player

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:12 AM

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ohyea

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:12 AM

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The path doesn't change much. But you'll need some time...

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Tutorials it's more about which ones YOU feel confortable

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:12 AM

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I'm expecting at least a couple of years to complete a game at least.

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:13 AM

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People learn in different ways and paces, so what I like might be boring for you, etc

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:13 AM

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True

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:13 AM

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Try free tutorials on Youtube + Unity's docs

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If you are more of a formal guy, try solid C# tutorials, not related to Unity.

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 11:14 AM

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Ah yeah that's probably me

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Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

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I appreciate it

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like

gleaming prawn Nov 27, 2019, 11:27 AM

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There are good books that give you a nice understanding of game engines (I highly recommend the one by Jason Gregory):
https://www.gameenginebook.com/

ocean ledge Nov 27, 2019, 5:03 PM

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can a NetworkBehaviour marked with ServerOnly Call RPCs?

jade glacier Nov 27, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Sure, since RPCs are called from the server

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However, not if that RPC is inside of that serveronly code

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that I would expect to fail

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If you are using Mirror @ocean ledge then there may be some changes in that behaviour, best to ask in the Mirror chan for that

hollow dirge Nov 27, 2019, 7:04 PM

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I'm looking to do some custom networking with TCP in an application I'm thinking of using Unity for, would this API be the right thing to use for that? https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.3/Documentation/Manual/UNetUsingTransport.html

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Communication would be via a simple text-based protocol

#

The Transport Layer can use two protocols: UDP for generic communications, and WebSockets for WebGL
Looks like that's a no for TCP

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Looks like only way is with the Sockets standard lib (System.Net.Sockets)

burnt axle Nov 27, 2019, 7:29 PM

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@livid spear Youtube and Udemy

livid spear Nov 27, 2019, 10:02 PM

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like

burnt axle Nov 28, 2019, 12:29 AM

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Do i need to create an leaderboard in google play console before i can use it with the Unity`s Social API? There is very little info from Unity and google results on this

ocean ledge Nov 28, 2019, 10:17 AM

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@jade glacier no I'm using UNET in 2017.4 I have an object with a network identity component marked as Server Only. A script component on that object is calling a RPC on a different networkbehaviour and that one isn't marked Server Only in the network identity component. for some unclear reason to me this doesn't work when i build the project however works flawlessly in editor mode (having 2 pcs - 1 client and 1 server)

worldly cedar Nov 28, 2019, 1:39 PM

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so, simple question, is there an established method for retrieving client/server IP using Unity Transport Layer (the new mulitplayer system)?

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 3:44 PM

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@ocean ledge I don't fully recall the quirks of unet. I would though make all methods and fields involved public, and you may need call the RPC from inside the same class... Meaning making a second method in the server only class that is not an RPC, and have that call the RPC. The Weaver is quirky.

upbeat basalt Nov 28, 2019, 4:21 PM

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Sorry in advance if this is the wrong channel, seems like you networking guys would probably know DB's the best and it didn't seem to fit in anywhere else other than "general code".

So I'm making an MMORPG which requires quite a bit of traffic/storage in ye ol' database.
Have looked into what to try and since I am working with limited funds I was mainly looking into Open Source DB's. MySQL seems to be used everywhere but I am not a big fan of oracle and SQLite is probably my favorite so far but apparently it gets slow when handling big amounts of data. So, what would you guys consider to be a good choice for this and why?

#

One of the top contenders for me right now is MongoDB since I have nothing against NoSQL DB's and it seems like a very quick and fast DB and if I do reach the need to scale it up, I can use the cloud SQL service...

weak plinth Nov 28, 2019, 5:14 PM

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i can get some help for photon

#

please

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 7:49 PM

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@jade glacier Can i ask you about client prediction ? i didn't understood the input resim part, from what i grasp the client sends numbered inputs to the server while also using it for local movement AND also storing it in a input buffer, the server moves the player with the input and sends back the position with its tick number, the client that may have stored/used inputs receive the real position and check if we are almost at the same position if yes i clear the input buffer up to the server tick number, if not what now ? what is the resim ? applying the inputs remaining in the buffer and if we are still not good just apply the good pose ?

#

is what i said even true ?

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 7:55 PM

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I use ring buffers, but that is the idea yeah

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@solar garden

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 7:56 PM

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What about the resim ?

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 7:56 PM

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The resim is the reapplying all inputs past the disagreement

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You move objects to the server stated state, and run the ticks again with you history of inputs

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 7:58 PM

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but why would i do the history of inputs when i has a chance to be wrong counting packets lost ?

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just move the player to the right pose and move on right ?

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i don't understand this input buffer business

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inputs can be wrong to the eyes of the server wich is autoritative anyway so when you predict + store the inputs and get your pose back but its wrong on your side why re applying inputs matter if there is a chance that it wasn't recived by the server ?

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i mean your prediction was wrong, replaying it will still have the same result right ?

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 8:07 PM

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But more than I can explain here on a phone sorry. But it's all the standard handling of prediction and correction after desync

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:08 PM

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Its ok thanks anyway !

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:28 PM

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If you don't reaply inputs again (it's just advancing the local prediction one more time) your client will be "laggy" just interpolating server confirmations

#

Information confirmed from server is always "in the past", so you need client side prediction again (all modern games do it, otherwise it will fell slow)

#

I think only quake 1 did this way back without local prediction

#

Only way to do the client side predictio then is too keep the input buffer (even if slight different than the server ones - these will come later in the next confirmations).

#

That is the bread and butter of client side prediction. Notice I'm not talkinh about deterministic predict rollback (which is another story completely as discussed here many times)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:33 PM

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does the server has a input buffer too or it just sends position and tick number ?

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Server also uses input buffers yes, but it will accept them in order...

#

There is normally a queue to control the input rate, etc

#

In some implementations you also might want the client to be "aware" of the server clock, so the client tries to comply with the server input rate...

#

It might send input with tick numbers, etc...

#

The client queues in the confirmations and applies them smoothed (then adds the re-prediction on top)

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I think the best explanation of this is the video by the overwatch team

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:40 PM

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So tell me if i got this senario right: Client sends inputs to server + stores them + use them to move locally, server gets them and sends back tick number + position, client receives it, tests if we have the right position, if yes continue + remove inputs up to the same number as the server tick, if not re apply the inputs in the buffer

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:42 PM

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If not, apply partial correction directly to position (and keeps the extra error to apply over next ticks smoothed).

#

No matter if correct or not (position for tick), always discard local inputs up to tick

#

They are not useful anynore

#

You only need the local inputs from confirmed tick to last tick (+ the new input for this next local tick)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:44 PM

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sorry to come back to this but if you apply server position what are to inputs doing in the equation ?

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:44 PM

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The higher the ping the larger the buffer

#

I think me and emotitron explained this at least twice. Let me give you numbers so you undersyand

#

Local machine simulates with my own input ticks 40, 41, 42 (I keep this in a buffer and the positions)

#

At some point, server receives my input for tick 40... Applies it there, sends down confirmed position for tick 40

#

Let's say that (due to the speed of light, damm, we can't be faster) this confirmation (for tick 40 position) arrives on my client exactly after I have predicted tick 42 for the first time (as stated above)

#

My client checks position for tick 40 if it matched the confirmed one... If yes, I just discard my local input for tick 40, as it is not needed anymore

#

If it doesn match, I replace position for tick 40... But I CAN NOT render this confirmed position, because it is "in the past"

#

I then reuse the local input buffer 41 and 43 (re running the player movement logic for those 2 ticks).. this will move my character to the present time + the correction

#

Then, finally.... It's probably time to simulate yet another new tick (43)

#

New inout is polled from local controller, simulation runs.. input 43 appended to local buffer...

#

Loop forever... Profit

#

That's it, I don't know how to explain bettwr

#

There are small variations of how to smooth these corrections in (the way I described the corrections would look jaggy)

#

But this is it in a nutshell...

#

@graceful zephyr did I say any obvious bs?

#

Notice the local input buffer necessary is directly proportional to your full ping to server + the server buffer (if it has one)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:55 PM

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This lit some part i didn't know i have just an other question, if you feed all pooled inputs to your movement script in one single frame won't your player shoot out ?

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:55 PM

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So I described with you keeping 3 ticks. At 60hz this is equivalent of a super nice 50ms real ping (including processing)

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Shoot out?

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You don't pass all at once

#

You call your movement logic once per input... One at a time

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With the fixed delta time every time... So if you are moving with a KCC query, it will move smoothly over surfaces, etc

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 8:56 PM

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ah i thought you add dthem together

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 8:57 PM

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Nop, this doesn't make sense

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Input is not a vector

#

Might be just digital directions, for example

#

You reapply your input logic, that might include jumping, etc

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Input is a struct, with maybe a vector, maybe buttons pressed, etc

#

There no "definition" for "adding" a complex inout struct

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These input buffers can be quite long....

#

At 60hz and 200ms ping, you are talking about at least 12/14 ticks

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Think of CS running at 120hz...

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:00 PM

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this i understand 😄

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:00 PM

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200ms ping would imply in at least 24 input structs in the buffer

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Notice this is so complex that many times you only use it for stuff like movement

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Because you don't need to reinstantiate a bullet... You either confirm it was shot (and then it becomes a networked entity on its own), or you cancel it (remove the rendered entity)

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This is so complex it hurts my eyes on the special cases... Lol

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Gosh bless predict rollback determinism...:)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:03 PM

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yeah and we didn't even discus the demo feature 😄

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where bullets and projectiles can be rewinded

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:03 PM

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Not touching on how to transfer data efficiently... How to smooth the data for non local players, etc

#

Bullets and projectiles are normal entities after instantiated... They use the very same logic...

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Just that they don't need an input buffer (just the direction anyway)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:04 PM

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but if they die it means they'll be re instantiated when you rewind ?

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:04 PM

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What I mentioned was about the very tick where the projectile is created (the logic of resimulating the trigger)

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:05 PM

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ahh ok

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:05 PM

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No, they become separate entities, remember that

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If that is necessary, lol

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Many times it is NOT

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You use the local bullet just for rendering (you just delete in case of cancellation), including predicted shot hit... Particles

#

Then server only confirms or not the damage (and here we go again...)

#

Damage logic, hit checks is another soap opera

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:07 PM

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yeah i tried out cs with lag + loss and bullets are indeed shot in local

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:07 PM

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Done with lag compensated raycasts, the famous favor the shooter mechanic

#

This I again recommend watching the overwatch "let's talk netcode" video

solar garden Nov 28, 2019, 9:08 PM

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yeah will do thanks for your time @gleaming prawn this was interresting

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:15 PM

#

I'm looking to develop a game using Unity, I want to make an online action turn based rpg style game and I'm wondering if nodejs using restful api and tcp websockets would be alright for the back end?

I know there's BaaS out there, but I feel like it would be easier to shape out if I build my own backend and have full control over the database and relations.

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:19 PM

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Turn based, I've made something like this about 10 years ago over Google app engine at the time.

#

I fear doing directly over the backend for every turn might be dangerous, because rest + dB is not really made for instant response etc... It really depends ontm the game pace

#

We tend to offer now solutions that work on a game server keeping the game state as a memory transaction model there...and you push to the back end periodically, or even only at the end game.

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But it really depends on the game pace, and the scale you think you'll need

weak plinth Nov 28, 2019, 9:22 PM

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is there an time estimate on unity's "new" network solution?

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:22 PM

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Its technically out

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:22 PM

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If it's really really slow paced and a movement confirmation can take a couple of seconds, then fine

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:22 PM

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On package manager @weak plinth

weak plinth Nov 28, 2019, 9:22 PM

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as in complete or untested bits and pieces ?

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:23 PM

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The latter

weak plinth Nov 28, 2019, 9:23 PM

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ty @graceful zephyr 🙂

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:23 PM

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For turns I would use sockets rather than rest

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:23 PM

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Notice you need two way communication from backend to all players (like some websockets or notification system)

#

Yes, that makes sense then... But I would also not make every turn a dB transaction

#

I'd put the game model in memory and save asynchronously

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:25 PM

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Yeah for sure

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 9:25 PM

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I just keep user inputs on the same size ring buffers, so I don't bother discarding

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:25 PM

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Database would just be where it gets the user characters info initially, as well as enemy info

jade glacier Nov 28, 2019, 9:25 PM

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But same outcome

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:25 PM

#

As for nodejs, whatever... If that's what you are best at... I fear it is way too barebones and a lot of reinventing wheels... But it's whatever you are more comfortable with.

#

Makes sense then WL

#

Tô me at least

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

I don't mind using a different language if node wouldn't be efficient

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:26 PM

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C# on both ends, means you can share code

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

What do you think would need to be reinvented?

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:26 PM

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Between server and client

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

That's true

graceful zephyr Nov 28, 2019, 9:27 PM

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Less to write, less bugs

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:27 PM

#

Net standard for the model

#

So you can run a net core backend, and unity uses the net standard model as well

#

No code duplication... Also decouples simulation model from unity, normally a good practice

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

I was thinking of using Net Core as well

gleaming prawn Nov 28, 2019, 9:29 PM

#

Imho it would be a better choice for the reasons exposed by Fredrik

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 9:30 PM

#

Thanks for your input, that's probably the route I'll go then

#

I'm worried nodejs being single threaded might be a pitfall anyways if there are a lot of interactions happening at the same time

#

which wouldn't be an issue unless there were a lot of players

hallow comet Nov 28, 2019, 11:07 PM

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@tepid steppe a lot of those BaaS solutions are hyperscalable, you won't be able to even come close to that.. Why would you reinvent the wheel?

#

The best BaaS for games are developed and maintained by pretty big companies. What's your experience by the way? Do you require only a subset of the functionality?

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 11:11 PM

#

I think because I already have clear idea of how I want my game to be and what it needs, and I feel a BaaS might have more than what I need or can't cater specifically to how I want it perform

#

But I might be looking at it the wrong way because I haven't actually played around with a BaaS yet, only read what they have to offer

#

I have a couple years experience in full stack web development, as for game development I've only made a couple small rpgs with vb6 awhile back

hallow comet Nov 28, 2019, 11:23 PM

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Playfab, GameSparks and the others are really powerful. If you don't want to waste your time or start your own BaaS provider, don't..

#

Yes you can make it do anything, especially something like GameSparks. And even if you have a corner case, just extend it in AWS, they play well together.

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Alright I'll experiment with some BaaS

hallow comet Nov 28, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Thank god :))

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 11:28 PM

#

Saving time is a good thing haha

hallow comet Nov 28, 2019, 11:31 PM

#

Playfab is easier, but not as flexible / powerful as GameSparks. Just take a look at it's website. If that isn't enough and you have time on your hands, go with GameSparks. I don't have much experience with the others but really using any of those services is a big win. Are you a game developer or a middleware / services provider? The answer to that question will make things obvious.

#

Also, if this is your first game, make a single player. If not, go multiplayer. If you already did that, go multiplayer with backend. And at each stage, actually ship it (as in you sale it on Steam / consoles / etc). This is a common advice everywhere, by the way.

tepid steppe Nov 28, 2019, 11:36 PM

#

Thanks for your advice

hallow comet Nov 28, 2019, 11:38 PM

#

You're welcome ✌

rare crypt Nov 29, 2019, 10:21 PM

#

is that official now ? just noticed a massive change in the repo

📎 unknown.png

weak plinth Nov 29, 2019, 10:43 PM

#

is there any other network systems like photon PUN so i dont need to care about NAT?

jade glacier Nov 30, 2019, 1:37 AM

#

I suspect there are some other basic relay services like PUN, but not aware of them

steep pendant Nov 30, 2019, 3:55 AM

#

so, as someone completely new to working with multiplayer in Unity, what framework/resources would you recommend?

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 3:03 PM

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@rare crypt yes you can get them on the package manager now

#

the new networking

#

but its early early early

#

like... early.

#

proper early

#

0.0.1-alpha-preview-only-for-testing early

rare crypt Nov 30, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

@graceful zephyr hmmm... true that, i think ill still give it a shot and keep checking for updates, so once its gonna mature like good wine, ill be ready to drink that delicious net code.

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

@graceful zephyr 👋

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

lol

#

'ye 'ol fucker

#

hey

#

😄

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

whadup duder

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:45 PM

#

not much

#

trying to get youngest kiddo to sleep

#

and getting sick

#

lol

#

you? 😄

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

kid-less this weekend

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

ah

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

so i'm writing a FPS-character controller thing for funsies

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

so furious self gratification marathon?

#

😄

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

oh yes

#

plus i just realized grimes is elon musks gf

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

think he fially

#

fell asleep

#

finally

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

that dude gets it all xD

graceful zephyr Nov 30, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

thank god

fickle sleet Nov 30, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

gz

white apex Dec 1, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

yay got the new netcode up and running

#

i hope unity uses some doors and triggers in their upcoming sample because I've no idea what's the proper way

#

right now i went for a predicted ghost for the door

#

where i'm still having trouble is with different objects for the same ghost type. seems like there's no pipeline for this at all. like different platforms for movers or different characters for predicted character ghosts. the only way to change it would be in DefaultGhostSpawnSystem in the netcode

stray scroll Dec 1, 2019, 9:19 AM

#

Yeah, the way I did it on the previous version was to use an ID synced to spawn locally with a system.

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

I have a question: when there is a state desync we reapply the inputs we have in the buffer but do we snap back the player to the desynced state and the apply the inputs ? and if you apply them once per update won't this mean that the player won't have control of the player until the input of the buffer are applied or do you separate the render and do this on a hidden object for the player ?

graceful zephyr Dec 1, 2019, 1:02 PM

#

@solar garden you snap, and reapply all inputs

#

That are after the frame that desynced

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 1:06 PM

#

ok and i do this on the render player ?

weak plinth Dec 1, 2019, 1:22 PM

#

Hi! I've been looking to learn a bit of multiplayer and googling around has me a bit confused. Where should I start to give my html5 games some human interaction?

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 3:44 PM

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@solar garden for monobehavior/non ECS I create a second lightweight physics scene and do limited resins there, then copy the results of the object in question back

#

On the DOTS side that will play out differently, since things are all moving forward with stateless physics

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 3:46 PM

#

when you say physics scene you mean a "level.scene" scene ?

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

2018.3 and later let you make isolated physx scenes

#

And manually run . Simulate on them

#

You can do work on the main scene for resim, but you have to be more careful there

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 3:48 PM

#

so you use this scene to simulate the player and if the render player is too off you snap it to the one of the physics scene ?

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 3:49 PM

#

You put into that scene things you consider important to the resim

#

The player, relevent terrain, intractables, whatever is applicable to you

#

OR, use the main sim... Just the you have to rewind everything

#

A small scratch pass sim let's you make you resim a lot more lightweight

#

But totally depends on what your game is, and what needs to be in the resim

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

all this is for the server side ?

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 3:52 PM

#

Either, depends what you are resimming

#

On the client for missed predictions

#

On the server for rewinding shots

#

For rewind checks, it's not so much a resim... Since you don't simulate forward after rewinding

#

Have you read the stuff on how csgo works? And the overwatch videos?

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

i've seen the valve doc for css but i didn't saw this kind of physics thing

#

this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTH2ZPgYujQ

YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

#

and this https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Source Multiplayer Networking

#

But they don't use this kind of hermite physics scene system right ?

#

essentially this physics scene thing is to kind of hide the raw processing in the background while the render players are walking freely until they are corrected right ?

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 4:04 PM

#

Not sure of the details of how they run rewind. More just making sure you are aware of the different uses for rewind and resim

#

The second scene is not a thread

#

There is no 'background processing' for this, since all work on the next frame can't happen until after the resim

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 4:07 PM

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oh yeah i didn't ment background as separated thread i meant like its invisible

jade glacier Dec 1, 2019, 4:07 PM

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The second scene is just about making a smaller physics scratch pad

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It isn't a critical thing, it's just my preference for work on older unity

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This assumes you are using physx at all for your sim

solar garden Dec 1, 2019, 4:10 PM

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Ah i wanted to switch to havok when it gets out

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but can't you do this in the normal scene ?

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without all this fancy physics scene system

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when you mention the stuff off csgo and overwatch was the links i sent what you were referring to ?