#archived-networking | Official Unity Discord | Page 49

maiden sundial Aug 20, 2019, 9:43 AM

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oh cool! Thats a great tip, iam really new and struggeling with everything so iam glad i get great tips like this!

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@halcyon vessel Dude, you just solved my issue! Thanks a f*ken bunch! 😄

halcyon vessel Aug 20, 2019, 9:51 AM

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no problem 😉

velvet tulip Aug 21, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Hello Guys, i am making a unity multyplayer game its an fps but i got a little problem see, i got this hitmarker that i want to show for .25seconds i already made a code for that but when i shoot a player every player gets to see the hitmarker i only want it to be seeing from the player who shot the other any fixes??? i use UNET btw thank you 🙂

stray scroll Aug 22, 2019, 9:30 AM

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@velvet tulip Did you figure out the problem?

velvet tulip Aug 22, 2019, 11:20 AM

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nope 😦

stray scroll Aug 22, 2019, 11:45 AM

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@velvet tulip So your problem as you say is it that you have this animation of a hitmarker that you want to show when a player hits another player, but only the player that made the shot. It's a bit hard to say in what way you are shooting, with an object, raycast etc. But let me ask you if your players move around in the environment?

unkempt saddle Aug 23, 2019, 12:18 PM

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Hi!
I'm thinking about doing a game using networking and a dedicated server. Where would you guys recommend me to start to learn how you do multiplayer games in Unity? (I have basic knowledge in networking but not in Unity)

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I don't need anything stable or something like that as I just want to play around for now. (I heard there are many changes coming in the networking)

fading pawn Aug 23, 2019, 3:52 PM

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This is a good start: https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/bolt/current/demos-and-tutorials/bolt-basics/bolt-101-wizard-setup

steep plinth Aug 23, 2019, 4:56 PM

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Hi there - I'm sure this has been asked before, but the unity technologies tutorial on jobified multiplayer seems to be a bit out of date, and im getting an exception when I run the code as is

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has anyone done any troubleshooting on this?

upbeat marsh Aug 23, 2019, 5:00 PM

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@steep plinth is it using unity multiplayer?

steep plinth Aug 23, 2019, 5:01 PM

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Yes! I was working through this to start learning the new DOTS instead of UNET

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https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/com.unity.transport/Documentation~/workflow-client-server-jobs.md

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

upbeat marsh Aug 23, 2019, 5:01 PM

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maybe consider trying out Photon PUN - https://www.photonengine.com/en-US/PUN

Photon Unity 3D Networking Framework SDKs and Game Backend | Photo...

Photon Unity Networking framework for realtime multiplayer games and applications with no punchthrough issues. Export to all Unity supported platforms, no matter what Unity license you have!

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oh nevermind, is this a new thing? looks neat sorry 😃

steep plinth Aug 23, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Yeah they have a new networking stack coming out, and this was to be a guide for it

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However the API is changing regularly still so some of it is outdated, and I'm getting a shared resource error between my two jobs.

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Has anyone worked with this before?

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InvalidOperationException: The previously scheduled job ServerUpdateConnectionsJob writes to the NativeArray ServerUpdateConnectionsJob.connections. You must call JobHandle.Complete() on the job ServerUpdateConnectionsJob, before you can read from the NativeArray safely.

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Seems like Complete is synchronizing the threads, but if I complete, it deallocates the job so I lose a reference. The server works then but i get a separate exception

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This is an AtomicSafetyHandle error

stray scroll Aug 23, 2019, 5:55 PM

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I'm using the Netcode and works fine for me

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Are you working from the samples, or doing your own stuff?

velvet tulip Aug 24, 2019, 10:55 AM

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@stray scroll sry for the late respons but yes i am using raycast and yes i can move around in the environment its an fps

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and it isn't an animation its a image that i want to enable and disable when the player shoots the other player 🙂

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i want it only to be enable .25 seconds tho

velvet tulip Aug 24, 2019, 12:32 PM

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do you want me to show my script to you ??

spiral glen Aug 24, 2019, 1:57 PM

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So I am new to networking

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I made an RPC call using PUN 2

spiral glen Aug 24, 2019, 2:12 PM

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In the start function I have the first player that joins the room make an RPC call declaring himself as player 1 in a buffer

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So that all the next players that join will know he is player 1

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However when I get player 2 to join the room

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Player 2 adds himself to the list as player 1

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in the start function

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And only after the start function does the buffer take place and add's itself as player 2

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so then all instances always have themselves as player 1

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is it possible for the buffered command to happen during the start function?

stray scroll Aug 24, 2019, 3:03 PM

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@velvet tulip So I assume if you move one player, another doesn't move? Can't you apply the same logic to your animation?

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@spiral glen Why not use AllBufferedViaServer ?

spiral glen Aug 24, 2019, 3:07 PM

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ah yes that works

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I didn't read all the options

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shame on me

opaque dew Aug 24, 2019, 7:00 PM

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@spiral glen AllBufferedViaServer is not a great idea.

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It buffers ALL calls, and they can build up.

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You're better off just having the owner send the information manually when a player joins.

velvet tulip Aug 25, 2019, 6:41 AM

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@stray scroll no its something else its that when the localplayer shoots and the raycast hits tag "player" There needs to be a hitmarker than is showed up for 0.25 seconds

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i'll give u my script

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HitmarkerScript

📎 Hitmarker.cs

stray scroll Aug 25, 2019, 7:32 AM

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@velvet tulip I thought u said you were using UNET, why is there PunRPC?

velvet tulip Aug 25, 2019, 7:33 AM

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one sec

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i am in game

stray scroll Aug 25, 2019, 7:33 AM

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And your check to start the hitmarker is outside the check for input

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So it will start on all Hitmarker scripts you have all the time for the player they belong to

velvet tulip Aug 25, 2019, 7:34 AM

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and how to do that xD,??

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oh

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yea

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its unchecked

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i will remove punrpc in a sec and see what that gives

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but do i need to use ''if(!islocalplayer)' or if(!photonview.isMine)?

stray scroll Aug 25, 2019, 7:40 AM

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islocalplayer is UNET

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photonview.isMine is PUN

velvet tulip Aug 25, 2019, 7:41 AM

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oke thx

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🙂

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edit

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i use photon

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what do i need to add on the image itself? network identitie and photonView??

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its a prefab in player resourcer

jade glacier Aug 25, 2019, 6:28 PM

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you seem to be mixing the two libraries in all of your questions. NetworkIdenity should not be in a PUN project

spiral glen Aug 26, 2019, 2:28 PM

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does anyone have a GameObject custom type for PUN 2?

gleaming fossil Aug 26, 2019, 8:21 PM

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is there a way to do player rotations more consistently? Seem like my client and my server somehow end up having differerent rotations over time, despite sharing the same codebase

Entities.ForEach((CharacterController controller, PlayerClient player) => {
            if (player.registry.inputHistory.TryDequeue(out InputHistory history))
            {
                player.transform.Rotate(new Vector3(0.0f, player.registry.mouseAccel, 0.0f) * 20 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                controller.Move(player.transform.localRotation * player.GetAcceleration(history).normalized * 10 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                player.registry.tick++;
            }
            if (player.registry.inputHistory.Count < 1) {
                player.transform.Rotate(new Vector3(0.0f, player.registry.mouseAccel, 0.0f) * 20 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                controller.Move(player.transform.localRotation * player.registry.acceleration.normalized * 10 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                player.registry.tick++;
            }
            Debug.Log($"Client {player.registry.mouseAccel}");

        });

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Only difference between server and client codebase is that ``PlayerClientisPlayerServer` in the entity loop

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and both handle updates at the same rate

jade glacier Aug 26, 2019, 8:34 PM

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If you only sync inputs and never sync states, loss will become a problem

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Typical server auth pattern is you send inputs from player to server, server applies them, and sends out the state results to all clients (including the owner that may have been predicting)

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@gleaming fossil

gleaming fossil Aug 26, 2019, 8:35 PM

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Gotcha, yeah thats the pattern that I am going with. Went with a shared codebase to make the client side predictions better

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my reconcilliation works, its just that my

 if (player.registry.inputHistory.Count < 1) {
                player.transform.Rotate(new Vector3(0.0f, player.registry.mouseAccel, 0.0f) * 20 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                controller.Move(player.transform.localRotation * player.registry.acceleration.normalized * 10 * Time.fixedDeltaTime);
                player.registry.tick++;
            }

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Seemed to have caused the issue

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not sure why

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Deleted it and now rotation and movement is spot on...

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I process inputs half as slow as the player moves

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so the movement is jittery

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Which is why I wrote that, in order to fill the gap between updates

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but that seems to create the inconsistency that I am experiencing...

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Is a queue of inputs maybe not such a good idea emo? Thinking memory and GC wise

strong patrol Aug 26, 2019, 8:56 PM

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What is a Generalist?'

jade glacier Aug 26, 2019, 11:44 PM

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@gleaming fossil a ring buffer of input structs is pretty normal for server auth.

opaque dew Aug 27, 2019, 1:12 AM

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@spiral glen Making a gameobject custom type isn't realistic.

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You'd have to consider every possible variation of it.

spiral glen Aug 27, 2019, 4:19 AM

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Yea that's way too hard

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I just gave it the coordinates of the gameobjects location

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And found the object thanks to its coordinates

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Probably not the best way to do this

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Idk

stray scroll Aug 27, 2019, 7:35 AM

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@gleaming fossil You can check at the multiplayer sample for some inspiration if you just don't want to use it right off : ) https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

gleaming fossil Aug 27, 2019, 10:10 AM

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Currently using dark rift 2 and very happy with it, used it for half a year. Just kept experimenting with the authoritive model

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How well would you say input buffers scale?

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I somehow imagine the GC going nuts dependant on how much there is

jade glacier Aug 27, 2019, 1:31 PM

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GC would be if you don't prealloc your classes/arrays.,. So of course prealloc, reuse and pool as needed. @gleaming fossil

karmic void Aug 27, 2019, 1:35 PM

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Hello all!

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I am testing this solution: https://normcore.io/documentation

Normcore

Getting started

Welcome to the Normcore docs. This tutorial is designed to show you how to get set up and running with Normcore in your Unity project.

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What do you think about?

frank thorn Aug 27, 2019, 7:16 PM

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Interesting at first but seems like its only useful for a VR chat type of game @karmic void

karmic void Aug 27, 2019, 7:19 PM

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Not only I think, very similar to Photon with TransformView and DataStore for persistent data

mighty urchin Aug 27, 2019, 7:36 PM

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I just started making a new game and i dunno if i should wait for the new networking system or already use it. Or just still use the old one anybody that can help me out?

jade glacier Aug 27, 2019, 8:04 PM

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Waiting gets you nowhere. You need to start making failed networking projects, or running tutorial projects with any library, because there is a massive learning curve - and the new ECS networking system is only going to be more complicated to use rather than easy compared to what exists currently as options. @mighty urchin

glacial totem Aug 27, 2019, 8:23 PM

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I tried PUN 2 first and then abandoned it completely for a full custom networking implementation using a raw UDP library. Extremely happy with the switch.

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But it wasn't until I tried something like PUN 2 that I understood it's flaws. So you just need to pick something and try it to learn.

mighty urchin Aug 27, 2019, 8:46 PM

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@jade glacier thnx

slow wagon Aug 27, 2019, 11:46 PM

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Someone can help me out with networking?

carmine dragon Aug 28, 2019, 7:17 AM

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@nimble berry Got the DOTS netcode working 😊 do you have any clue on making a headless server? I guess the NetworkEndpoint is used to define the IP address but other than that I'm clueless hehe. Is it required to make a seperate scene? If so, how would the PlayMode Tools work if there are two scenes involved?

stiff ridge Aug 28, 2019, 8:44 AM

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@slow wagon : Yes. Ask a few concrete questions and I'm sure you get some input here.

velvet tulip Aug 28, 2019, 1:16 PM

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@jade glacier this may sound stupid but how to see if ur using photon or Unet ?

nimble berry Aug 28, 2019, 1:39 PM

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@carmine dragon I haven't done a dedicated server yet. On a first glance there are two parts involved:

Starting the server: Read a config file and start the server up according to the config. I would do this in a seperate scene with a monobehavior reading the config and starting the server part. I haven't used the playmode tools, so i don't know how they act in this scenario.
Creating server only prefabs without textures to save a lot of disk space

spiral glen Aug 28, 2019, 2:58 PM

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Weird things are happening with PUN 2 right now

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I didn't change any code

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and when I connect to a random room

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it creates a new one

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but when I do that with the new account

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it does not find the newly created room

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and also creates a new one

jade glacier Aug 28, 2019, 3:10 PM

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@velvet tulip did you install pun2 from the asset store?

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The editor may be connecting to a different region. I always hand enter a region in settings for dev. @spiral glen

spiral glen Aug 28, 2019, 3:11 PM

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ill give that a shot

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do you just set fixed region to eu in the server settings?

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yea that fixed it thanks @jade glacier

carmine dragon Aug 28, 2019, 3:14 PM

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@nimble berry Ah, alright, I guess I'll have to find a way to use the PlayTools with a seperate scene then 🙂 cheers

jade glacier Aug 28, 2019, 3:17 PM

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@spiral glen 👌

spiral glen Aug 28, 2019, 4:39 PM

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is there a way to run both clients in unity?

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would be a lot easier for debugging

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and a lot faster without having to rebuild every 5 minutes

jade glacier Aug 28, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Some people run two editors. Never have tried though. Make your networking separate from most of your heavier graphics and audio stuff. Builds take like 10 seconds if you work on the networking without all of that.

velvet tulip Aug 28, 2019, 5:12 PM

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its photon thx @jade glacier

jade glacier Aug 28, 2019, 5:17 PM

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Then be sure not to be using any cases of using UnityEngine.Networking and you should be fine. @velvet tulip

velvet tulip Aug 28, 2019, 5:17 PM

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oh thanks didn't knew

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🙂

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@jade glacier so that means i can use "if(photonview.isMine)"

jade glacier Aug 28, 2019, 5:25 PM

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if you are using the photon usings and base classes/interfaces yeah

velvet tulip Aug 28, 2019, 5:25 PM

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oke thx

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)=

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🙂

slow wagon Aug 28, 2019, 10:27 PM

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How can I set a spawned camera as the main camera?

slow wagon Aug 28, 2019, 10:49 PM

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I am spawning a bunch of player prefabs all from the same player object. How do I link these together in code? Is it through a unique id?

stiff ridge Aug 29, 2019, 7:38 AM

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@spiral glen : As you ran into the issue with differing regions: I could use some info to fix this.

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The region pinging results can be logged very easily: In the PhotonServerSettings, set the PUN logging level to "Informational".
For the editor, you can force best region pinging. Use the "Reset" button in the PhotonServerSettings to clear the "Best Region Preference".
Via code, you an also clear the setting: ServerSettings.ResetBestRegionCodeInPreferences();

Two log entries are of interest:
"PUN got region list. [...]" and "Region Pinging Result" which contains multiple lines.
We need those from the clients that have different opinions of which region to choose.

If anyone runs into this and has some time to help: PM me the results from 2 clients that are not finding one another.

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Thanks

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@slow wagon: The result values of Instantiate is the object you just created. In the code that spawns the local instances, you can get the references and attach the cam.
Remotely, PUN will instantiate the other's objects and not attach the cam.

spiral glen Aug 29, 2019, 7:43 AM

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Not on my computer right now but ill do that for ypu as soon as I get back

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:21 PM

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Has anyone here made a a networked physics-based game using an authoritative server?

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:51 PM

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Not a game, but did make a proof of concept library that was server auth physx sync with resim done on a second lightweight physics scene @glacial totem

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:52 PM

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@jade glacier So right now when i handle a state correction, i perform the correction and fast forward the client back to where it was (clients run in the future compared to server)

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And after that fast forward, i interpolate rigibody position, rotation, and velocities

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:53 PM

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Basically that is the idea

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:53 PM

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Are there dynamic interpolation algorithms? Like right now I'm Lerping position with a .3f time value

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:53 PM

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That sounds very wrong

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:54 PM

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Just wondering if there's any other techniques where the interpolation isn't static

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:54 PM

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You should have a fixed simulation rate

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:54 PM

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I do.

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:54 PM

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Then lerp against that

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:54 PM

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what do you mean by that?

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.3f time value is the last argument supplied to the lerp function

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I think you misunderstood

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:55 PM

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t = (time.time - time.fixedTime) / time.fixedDeltaTime

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:56 PM

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is there any explanation on that?

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:57 PM

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Not much more than what the equation is. That is how you interpolate physx ticks in update

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:57 PM

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are you saying the lerping should be based on how many ticks everything was fast forwarded?

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:57 PM

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You don't lerp anything on your simulation

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Lerping is only for the cosmetic Update() stuff

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 4:58 PM

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In this case I'm lerping rigibody simulation stuff

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because physics need to match visuals

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Resim is about going back, applying the server state to the client, and the client reapplying all inputs and resulting each tick back to current

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Okay that's what I'm doing. However, if I do that without anything on top, you're gonna end up with sudden changed

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The client is about 100ms in the future in perfect world conditions

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Physics doesn't need to match visuals. If they are rbs they will interpolate themselves. If it's your own physics, you have to keep the visual.

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:00 PM

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so 100ms of an object going left when 100ms ago it suddenly went right.

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That looks bad.

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So i should remove Lerping on my end, and just turn on Rigibody Interpolation on the component?

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:02 PM

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I would, no point fighting Unity

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:02 PM

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But isn't interpolation very game specific

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Physics interpolation is pretty standard

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t = (Time.time - Time.fixedTime) / Time.fixedDeltaTime

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Lerping the last two results of simulation

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:05 PM

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but if I'm rewinding and fastforwarding, how will Unity know what the last two results are?...

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Becasuse technically speaking non of the in between matters

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Will Unity only lerp on Update?

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So nothing that happens in between matters?

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:06 PM

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You are confusing the two works out sounds like

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Simulation is just states on a fixed tick

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State[x] + inputs[x] = state[x+1]

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Resim is just going back to a previous state index, changing that state to match the servers result, and resimulating back to current

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There is no lerping

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:09 PM

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I understand that lol

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But that without interpolation results in sudden shifts

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:10 PM

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You only lerp in update, it has nothing to do with the sim states

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:10 PM

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so i guess I'm just unclear because I don't want visuals that don't match the current physics word

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:10 PM

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I get you now

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:10 PM

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i don't want my rigibody to be in one position but the rendered model to be in another

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because anything interaction with that model won't actually work right

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because the rigidbody isn't actually there

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:11 PM

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Depending on unity version, you can do that

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:11 PM

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I'm on alpha

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 5:12 PM

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I haven't touched that, so I have no best practice there. I just let it hard correct

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Because desyncs are rare. Regular interpolation still happens.

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To really slow down the resync you will need to create cosmetic objects I suspect

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Or like detach the cosmetic and move that while in desync

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Basically your Colliders and such could correct instantly, but tween the graphics/player cam

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You have to have them not match, or else you will still be in desync

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Unless you are ok with making clients resim A LOT. It's going to get expensive though.

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I just would hard correct, the cases of desync should be rare of you design with that intent

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 5:49 PM

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@jade glacier are you talking about a multiplayer game though...?

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Predicting other clients is impossible.... so the expectation has to be that state corrections will happens like 60 times a second...

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It's impossible to predicting other clients with ever-changing input

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:09 PM

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Players only predict their own objects usually

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Depending how deterministicy you are trying to be

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@glacial totem

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:10 PM

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Yeah that's where the disconnect is.

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:10 PM

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The reason for the resim is to account for not having a complete sim

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:10 PM

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You're speaking on the grounds of basically what most games do in the past.

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I'm speaking on more current practices like what RL does

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:11 PM

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If it were a complete soon on all clients, you may as well go deterministic

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:11 PM

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RL predicts physics for all rigidbodies

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:11 PM

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I'm talking like Overwatch and such

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:12 PM

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Yeah also slightly different since it's not a true physics based game

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:12 PM

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That's fine, it's the same deal. They extrapolate to try to keep the player on the present

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But it will always be wrong, so lots of resim will have to happen

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:12 PM

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Yup understood

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That's what I have, that's what's happening

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I'm just getting more stutter than I want during the corrections

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And I'm not necessarily sure what can be done to improve it

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:13 PM

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So you are trying to smooth the other players? Not the players Avatar?

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:14 PM

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I'm smoothing everything

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Even my own player when it happens

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and I still get deterministic results with my own player

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:14 PM

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Yeah, I have no best practice for that

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:14 PM

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because the margin of error is so low

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if i connect to the server and interact with the physics object (a hockey puck in this case)

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I get about 1-2 corrections every couple of seconds

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Which is technically perfection for what I'm after

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:15 PM

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You are in a constant desync, so usual pattern is out the window

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:15 PM

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If i don't smooth anything, I still get those same results for my own player

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just very slight corrections because of Physx

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which again is as good as I need to get there

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It's the other players movements where all the problems are

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https://streamable.com/ip9ge

Streamable

passing wacky - Streamable

▶ Play video

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Blue Player = Local, Red Player = Remote

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You can see how the puck leaves the stick way earlier than it actually happens

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And that's will very heavy smoothing

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(lerping all values with a .3f time value)

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Part of the problem is definitely because of how unpredictable the stick movement is since the input is tied to mouse movement

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And those values are the most dynamic input there is lol

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:21 PM

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You definitely have that working against you with extrapolation

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:21 PM

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Which is why Rocket League (and what I also implemented) uses input decay

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:21 PM

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RL uses heavy vehicles

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:21 PM

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That mouse value is decayed over time if no state updates come in

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So I'm not fast forwarding with a consistent input value each tick

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That value gets decayed slightly during state correction fast forwards

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Just an area that needs to be fine tuned probably

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Nonetheless, you are predicting very rapid changing inputs, it's going to be quite a bit harder

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:23 PM

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Yeah that's what I'm afraid of

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I'm worried that the game design itself makes the networking challenge impossible

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:23 PM

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The mouse inputs aren't cosmetic, they are extremely critical to the sim

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:23 PM

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Current

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But so is steering in RL with the analog stick

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Which is where they applied the input decay

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:24 PM

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There will be answers, but you are going to have to write a lot of custom stuff

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But a car can't 180 turn in a tick

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So the error is pretty capped in RL

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:25 PM

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yeah that's what I was theorycrafting over last night

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Still unsure why dashes in RL don't produce the same weird results tho

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:26 PM

#

Extrapolation is more in the domain of trying to make this deterministic

#

Which does dislike this kind of input

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:27 PM

#

i think I'm already extrapolating tho technically speaking right?

#

Since i'm using the player's last server input to fast forward?

#

If a player is holding W during a state correction frame, each tick during the fast forward I advance the simulation as if they continued to hold W

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:28 PM

#

Quantum so far has avoid mouse input stuff for fps games. Can be done, but the predictions are hard to hide

#

That's what I mean, extrapolation is ugly

#

Lies, damn lies, and extrapolation

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:28 PM

#

So I'm basically extrapolating, then interpolating the result from the extrapolation

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

Yeah, extrapolation of bools is ready

#

Easy

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

yup

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

It's the free mouse that is borking you

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:29 PM

#

same thing is the case with player movement with the analog stick

#

But the input decay and interpolation hides that extremely well

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:30 PM

#

Sticks at least can call the error

#

Cap

#

Tanks can't 180 turn in a tick

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

yup i understand

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

Unless you are taking the stick as raw 0-360... Then it's just a trackball in disguise

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

just not sure at all what do do/try next...

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:31 PM

#

Lots of trial and error really

#

That's how RL was made

#

You are mostly edge case here, so you kind of have to try it all

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

yeah just not sure what that is lol

#

not aware of any other techniques to try

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

Sounds like you get the concepts, so not much I can tell you that you don't already know, sorry

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:33 PM

#

That's fine

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:33 PM

#

Just the obvious stuff you are thinking of

#

For occasional desyncs I have strategies, but none for perpetual desync

#

Phone doesn't like big words

glacial totem Aug 29, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

I appreciate the help though

#

I feel like this is only something I'll be able to get help with from someone who's dealt with this before

#

Like I legit might try reaching out to the lead engineer of RL....

#

I'm glad that I seem to already understand the concepts of what's going on and shit tho...

#

this is all new to me

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 6:47 PM

#

Can always try asking

#

But it is something of a creative per game exercise when you wander into these mixed prediction schemes

#

because the answer really is just "is it hiding the desync in the least noticeable place"

#

and that is super subjective

jade wharf Aug 29, 2019, 11:00 PM

#

Its literally relative

#

For my rts. I use 16.16 integers to describe the rotation

#

At a camera away from the object. It looks perfectly smooth

#

But if you got really, really close, you could notice a slight snappibg

#

Snapping*

#

Unless i turn on the rotational lerp

#

In which case you wouldnt notice at all

#

(The speed at which it lerps to the new position depends about the delta time from the newest and oldest position)

jade glacier Aug 29, 2019, 11:25 PM

#

Its going to be highly game dependent yeah. The more the game tends to produce major disagreements between server and clients the more creative you will have to get. So its best to try to make the game itself not produce wild disagreements

jade wharf Aug 30, 2019, 12:07 AM

#

I think CSSource networking is very relevant for this

#

Afterall in a competitive game like csgo where collisions means living from dieing or getting a kill or not. And even for monetized competition. Needs to be as accurate as possible

#

If you are wondering. The Source engine is on github

#

Thats how apex is a source game without being a valve game :p

jade glacier Aug 30, 2019, 12:22 AM

#

Though from what I have heard about Apex, it does a lot of client authority since the servers would be overtaxed trying to do per shot rewind and such - not entirely sure if that is relevant at all to this though.

#

I think in Rob's case he is going more for a RL thing, which requires a very un-CS-like form or prediction since it relies heavily on extrapolation and resims rather than rare resyncs as you get with typical FPS games @jade wharf

jade wharf Aug 30, 2019, 12:41 AM

#

Oh

jade glacier Aug 30, 2019, 12:57 AM

#

He's basically doing RL type prediction, but with things that are harder to predict than vehicles... so he has some hurdles

solar garden Aug 30, 2019, 1:12 PM

#

In the case of a client/server authoritative with client side prediction, can you get away with just having the same movement code for both parties and updating the pose in case of desync or is there more to it ?

jade glacier Aug 30, 2019, 1:21 PM

#

Because of latency you can't just move it on the player to agree with the server. You have to go back, apply the historical fix, then resimulating back to the current tick @solar garden

solar garden Aug 30, 2019, 1:22 PM

#

This is in case of desync only right ?

#

All players client or server move freely in their local world but only the server can correct mis behavior right ?

#

Because its the only way i can see client prediction working

#

Since you can't rely on sent data because of latency

jade glacier Aug 30, 2019, 3:47 PM

#

there are a bunch of models, so kind of depends what you are after

#

How much the server can afford to rewind, how much you are willing to trust clients, etc

#

How deterministic things are

#

But yes, to your original question, you typically run the same movement code on server and owner

#

the only time they should disagree is

Non-deterministic event that can't be predicted happens, usually another players action that blocks your action in some way
Lost packets cause the server to have to guess your inputs
Just slop in the simulation, like floating point error
maybe something else I am forgetting

#

At the start of any project would work on getting the miss rates as low as possible, and getting things to when they do miss - that the error is negligible

#

The smaller the desyncs, the less exotic you have to get with your code to try and hide it from users

glacial totem Aug 30, 2019, 5:19 PM

#

@solar garden you can rely on sent data though. Clients will be in the future on tick 120 while the server is only on tick 100, for example

#

that way by the time the input packet for tick 120 reaches the server, the server hasn't processed that tick yet and all players inputs for tick 120 can be processed at the same time.

#

The higher the latency, the farther into the future that client needs to be.

#

By having the server tell each client how many inputs it has in queue to process, i can move the clients further into the future or pull them back by processing 2 physics ticks at once or 0 ticks.

#

2 ticks moves it slightly further into the future, 0 ticks lets the client slow down.

#

once that logic gets the client at the right point of time, it should stay consistent as long as no packets are dropped or latency doesn't increase. So it's a constant adjustment being made when needed.

#

The cost is that there's slightly more latency introduced from the input queue on the server. Inputs are sitting for a moment until they are processed.

#

I believe the speed up/slow down technique is referred to as an Upstream Throttle and it's what Overwatch uses.

#

RL also uses it but it's an option you have to enable.

solar garden Aug 30, 2019, 5:36 PM

#

Ok i think i understand after some reading i saw that i have to number the packets sent for server reconciliation where redondant inputs are dropped and the one with the same number as the server is processed

glacial totem Aug 30, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

I thought you were adding to our previous discussion. Didn't realize you were asking a question only related to your own situation. I'm sorry for the rant....

#

But yes all your inputs sent to the server should always have a tick number. And all game state updates sent from the server to the client should also have a tick number.

autumn bone Aug 31, 2019, 1:43 AM

#

Quick question: I have a networkbehaviour on an object that exists in the scene from the start and isn't spawned in. Can this networkbehaviour utilize syncvars? And is there any way to know if the scirpt is current being ran on the server or client?

#

Right now, it seems isServer is always false and the syncvar doesn't actually change on the client

quasi tapir Aug 31, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

@autumn bone I'm stuck at a similar problem myself, I have one button in my scene and a script with network identity. I have two syncvar ints for player 1 and 2. The int decreases for the other player when I press the button, but the problem is the int doesn't change at all since syncvars can only be accessed by the server

#

I'm looking into commands now to give access to the client to access syncvars

weak plinth Aug 31, 2019, 11:32 PM

#

Hi folks! is there any roadmap or discussion for unity to support http2 at all?

soft palm Sep 1, 2019, 1:04 PM

#

Bit of an odd question, but what is the best networking solution for a fairly physic heavy multiplayer game?

pseudo quiver Sep 1, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

Hamachi migth do it if you want to @soft palm

void burrow Sep 1, 2019, 8:56 PM

#

Hi, guys! Does anyone know where to start when wanting to learn networking? 😄

undone sigil Sep 1, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

First think what do you need the networking for, and how should it work in your game

void burrow Sep 1, 2019, 9:38 PM

#

Well, I just want to learn it in general. So I don’t really have one specific case I need it for @undone sigil

weak plinth Sep 2, 2019, 4:23 AM

#

what api should i use for lan

#

netwoking

#

when i google lan networking Unet is all that comes up

#

what are some other popular options (lan only)

still hare Sep 2, 2019, 5:48 AM

#

@weak plinth Definitely Mirror networking. They have a discord where you can ask whatever, and it's basically a remake of Unet, so all the old Unet tutorials apply to Mirror. I've used it plenty and it's well made and just works. You can connect with Hamachi and or something if you want to play with friends.

#

I haven't personally used Photon, but that's another well received option

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:24 PM

#

@void burrow there is no general you wont find friendly tutorials to make every thing from a to z you are entering the wastland of gamemaking here, id suggest to learn to use either Bolt or PUN from photon they are the highest level solutions for networking to this day Unet is waiting to respawn for now so if you are interested in mid level networking there is Mirror that for now the best solution because it is made with a fixed version of Unet and can use loads of transport layers counting steamwork

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:37 PM

#

I wasn't expecting an a to z tutorial for networking, what I was expecting though is at least some form of information on how to get started without a framework doing all the networking for you. Such as literally pulling every string out of your hands. @solar garden

#

And I get that for a lot of users that works perfectly fine, but you don't really learn how it works from doing so in my opinion and experience.

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

You dont want to not use a framework its like saying i want to make my game from scratch without any game engine but if you really do you will need to learn about sockets and threading

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

I understand you can't do everything your self, but the key concepts of networking aren't going to fall out of the sky when using a framework that does everything you want automatically. You probably won't learn how to do things like client side prediction, optimizing packets, server side control (such as anti-cheats, physics).

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:45 PM

#

Ohh but dont worry none of those concepts are already made for you to use you have to make them yourself 😂

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:45 PM

#

Then what's the point in using a framework 😂

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:46 PM

#

The frameworks are transport layers the actual connecting is made for you but the game networking is all on you

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:47 PM

#

Aah, like that.

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:49 PM

#

Photon has most of those game networking "covered" for you but when you use Mirror with one of the networking layers all game logic has to be made by yourself you just chose the one that may get the closest of what you are aiming to do and get ready for months of water boarding 😂

#

If you want to go down that path google will be your main tool but if i can cut you some trouble look for Glenn Fiedler's articles and Valves networking wiki they cover the raw concepts

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:51 PM

#

I did find Glenn Fiedler yeah, but haven't looked at Valve's networking wiki yet.

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:52 PM

#

Try coder's block by joe best-rotheray too and look at gdc's talks too

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:52 PM

#

Although Glenn apparently did take down his blogs 😦

#

Luckily we have archive.org but yeah

#

xD

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:53 PM

#

Yeah i almost lost it when i saw that but yeah good thing peoples waybackmachined it lmao

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:55 PM

#

But thanks a lot for the help, I'll take a look at Valve's wiki and coder's block by joe best-rotheray 😄

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 12:56 PM

#

Anytime, may you find ease on your journey 😄

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 12:56 PM

#

Thanks haha xD

#

I just found this repository, if anyone is interested, it contains a lot of talks & article's about networking. and even names some libraries / demo projects. 😄
https://github.com/MFatihMAR/Awesome-Game-Networking

GitHub

MFatihMAR/Awesome-Game-Networking

A Curated List of Game Network Programming Resources - MFatihMAR/Awesome-Game-Networking

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 1:11 PM

#

Ahh nicely found i wanted to send you this originaly but i couldn't find it

#

This is the coolest bible i ever seen

#

Gabriel Gambetta is a good source too

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 1:14 PM

#

I wish this kind of stuff was just pinned in the channel, that would have made things much easier haha

solar garden Sep 2, 2019, 1:15 PM

#

true

#

glad i have it back tho thanks !

void burrow Sep 2, 2019, 1:16 PM

#

Np! 😄

void burrow Sep 3, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

Hey! I've got a question, if I wanted to make a simple dedicated server. So for example chat clients (which are Unity clients) and a standalone C# application (the dedicated server) which can talk to each other through the server. Could the approach making a C# project with the shared code such as packets work? So that both the server and client implement that project.

Or does anyone else have a better idea for doing this?

#

I'm a bit worried that this will eventually mess everything up as more complex things come along.

junior moat Sep 4, 2019, 2:42 AM

#

what are you guys using for networking these days ?

still hare Sep 4, 2019, 2:59 AM

#

personally using Mirror

spiral glen Sep 4, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

im using Photon

#

working pretty well so far

#

not sure how it compares to other services though

stray scroll Sep 4, 2019, 11:38 AM

#

playing around with dots new Multiplayer

weak plinth Sep 4, 2019, 12:35 PM

#

anyone knows how UnityWebRequest handle tcp connections, read/write streams and web requests? are they all threaded or some with coroutines?

solar garden Sep 4, 2019, 12:59 PM

#

Im using Forge its an odd ball this one but things make sense for me when i use it

#

plus idk how the others systems do it but forge has a dedicated thread for its networking, how does the others systems works

#

?

#

are they working on the same thread as unity ?

#

if you go out of memory playing in a ressources intensive scene and freeze do you lose the connection aswell ?

steep wolf Sep 4, 2019, 1:07 PM

#

@weak plinth believe it's all coroutines

weak plinth Sep 4, 2019, 1:09 PM

#

@steep wolf this guy from UnityTech says it uses another thread under the hood, i don't quite get his statement. https://forum.unity.com/threads/is-unitywebrequest-threaded-to-background.514360/#post-3369121

Unity Forum

Is UnityWebRequest threaded to background?

I can see that it has IEnumerators to be used in Coroutines.

I'm asking if the code between the yields is running on a separate background thread, or...

#

how do you find out what it is? it is all proprietary code right?

steep wolf Sep 4, 2019, 1:17 PM

#

or look at the decompiled libraries if you're hardcore lol

#

not recommending this

#

neither condoning it

#

neither have experience with it

#

disclaimer haha

jade glacier Sep 4, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

I suspect it starts a process that does the web grab, and all that is ienumberated is the regular "are you done yet?" check of that

ancient depot Sep 4, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Hey I was thinking of how could it be possible to create a unity online multiplayer game that won't be playable without a game client. I want to make a matchup search in a client with users and run the game made in unity through the client sending as arguments the user to the game and connect then together and at the end of the match terminate the game and send the results of each player back to the game client, any idea?

native fossil Sep 5, 2019, 12:16 AM

#

Does anyone here know of a reverse-proxy, load balancer, or what have you (service not software) that can point to any old ip I so desire and supports tcp/udp

naive sierra Sep 5, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

that's very specific

night scaffold Sep 5, 2019, 4:13 PM

#

Does anyone know where to find good Mirror networking tutorials?

#

I can't find any good ones.

gray pond Sep 5, 2019, 4:18 PM

#

Answered in Mirror Discord

velvet tulip Sep 5, 2019, 5:03 PM

#

Is there any way to make multiple spawnpoints in photon networking?

neon rampart Sep 5, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

Hi
How can i use simple network system? Don wanna make s multiplayer game, just wanna use some network stuff in game... where do i learn it?

#

Dunno what to search in youtube, it only has tutors for multiplayer games

gusty niche Sep 5, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

@neon rampart look for simple c# chat app & learn from its source, its easy

junior moat Sep 6, 2019, 1:59 AM

#

@neon rampart try this Lidgren Library, this commit should be groovy: https://github.com/lidgren/lidgren-network-gen3/tree/e26203f6526835779dcf7d2357e4ebab642e72e6

GitHub

lidgren/lidgren-network-gen3

Lidgren Network Library. Contribute to lidgren/lidgren-network-gen3 development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

it already has a chat example thats pretty easy to implement in unity

neon rampart Sep 6, 2019, 6:28 AM

#

TheOnesandedMan thanks, but thats not quite what i wanted, I wanted a tutorial, wanna learn

#

@gusty niche somethin like this?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.skyapper.hb.learncnet

Learn C#.NET - Apps on Google Play

If you are searching for an application to learn c#.net programming basic to advance without any programming knowledge . You are at right place. Whether you an experienced programmer or not , this application is intended for everyone who wish to learn the C#.net programming.
...

gusty niche Sep 6, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

@neon rampart that's just learning c# syntax, i didn't know you have no understanding of the language, but yeah start from there, it will take some time to learn c# then go to networking etc..

neon rampart Sep 6, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

@gusty niche oh, no, i kno c# i just don kno EN well :-) thats why i didnt quite get what u said me to look for

gusty niche Sep 6, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

@neon rampart take a look at this client code i made the other day https://file.io/pKTWm8

#

i dont have any server code, but you can make it yourself its not very hard

proud hearth Sep 7, 2019, 5:08 AM

#

Hello. I've been using basic bi-directional socket functionality with WebSocketSharp. It came with this asset store: https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/master-server-framework-71391 , which is now open source on GitHub. (not that it's hard to make Client and Server Sockets with WebSocketSharp, just posting in case it helps).

I've opened the ports and removed any security issues (firewall). I'm currently having problems with connecting from a remote PC to the server (locally it works perfectly). Funny thing is, sites to check if a port is open show the port as open.

The best I could narrow down to is this. There seems to be an issue based on Unity Versions. If I'm using Unity 2019 (any) as Server and Client, connection won't be established. If I'm using Unity 2017 as Server and 2019 as Client, it doesn't connect. If I'm using Unity 2019 as Server and 2017 as Client, it connects. If I'm using Unity 2017 as both Server and Client, it connects. Both 2019 an 2017 connect locally.

Any ideas would be extremely helpful, as this has suddenly hindered my development process by a lot!

Master Server Framework - Asset Store

Be The Master of Your Own Services!

Wiki | Forum

Is this asset for you?

Master Server Framework is designed to kickstart your back-end server development. It contains solutions to some of the common problems, such as:

Authentication
Persistent and s...

neon rampart Sep 7, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

@gusty niche thanks man :)

glacial robin Sep 7, 2019, 11:46 AM

#

Hi. Can someone give me a rundown of Photon vs Azure PlayFab? I want to make a cards versus humanity style multiplayer and I'm trying to figure out if I should use both or just one and what the differences are between them

north sonnet Sep 7, 2019, 12:10 PM

#

So I am making a project using UNet in unity 5.2.1 and every time I try to build to webgl i get - Error building Player: Exception: C:\ProgramFiles\Unity\5.2.1\Editor\Data\Tools/UnusedByteCodeStripper2/UnusedBytecodeStripper2.exe did not run properly!

I can build it in windows fine though.

#

I have also looked on the forums but I cant find a solution.

weak plinth Sep 7, 2019, 12:55 PM

#

My player is changing armor mesh when he equips item from inventory, so for each armor part he has a different mesh, now when im in the room with other players and changing my armor they don't see that im changing meshes. Im using Photon Pun and i'm wondering which method would be the best to use here. Should i set RPC on method where i instantiate mesh and send that rpc to everyone, or is something else better?

Im usually using rpc for methods like "takedamage" and simillar, would it work the same in my case?

spiral glen Sep 7, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

can I turn an already existing gameobject into a photon network gameobject?

#

@weak plinth using RPC functions is though in order to do that because you can only pass in very simple variables through it

#

what ill probably do is is make an array containing all the meshes for the armors, and an enum to number them all

#

and then just pass the enum number through the rpc function and use the enum to figure out what it corresponds to

#

not sure if that makes sense

weak plinth Sep 7, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

i could try something like that

spiral glen Sep 7, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

I can show you how I have it setup

worldly plinth Sep 8, 2019, 5:10 PM

#

Hey guys so I'm wondering about something, I'd like to one day get into game dev, for now just watching youtube videos about it.
So, let's say I make Unity game, some kind of multiplayer survival, players vs bots. And I want people to be able to make dedicated server.
But what about that bots. I need to simulate them somewhere. So what do I do?
I see it like that:

So I launch the game on the server like normal player (but it's tweaked so there is no player and it acts like a server not client)
So the game world on the server spawns
I just simulate the behavior of AI
Send the positions and actions of the AI to all players

Is that how (roughly) it's done in games? Or is there other way?
Because if there wasn't any AI bots I could just make simple console program that just receives and routes simple data about player positions and actions. But with them it's not possible. I'll be glad if you @tag me in answer.

gray pond Sep 8, 2019, 11:09 PM

#

@worldly plinth Networking packages like Mirror handle this just fine because the headless server is still a Unity app and can have all that functionality.

sharp willow Sep 9, 2019, 4:38 PM

#

Hello. Does anyone know perhaps any deterministic multiplayer engines like Photon Quantum, but open source? I'm prototyping a brawler game and I need a solution that works for a wide range of latencies, but I can't afford Quantum at this stage.

jade glacier Sep 9, 2019, 6:36 PM

#

There is nothing like Quantum for free

#

or even for charge

#

nor will there be likely - its a massive undertaking

#

Eventually some more paid deterministic libs will pop up I would expect, but making a generic just works system that doesn't decimate CPUs/memory while still being usable and bulletproof would be a lot of work for anyone to make and then give away for free.

#

The best you can do right now is get some free libraries for some of the aspects - like the deterministic physics or deterministic fixed point math

flint palm Sep 10, 2019, 7:29 AM

#

Hey,
I've got a bug where my network request times out because of an interruption (connection disabled / enabled and the IP might have changed too afterwards). What is the usual practice in this case, reusing the same HttpWebResponse but with a different servicepoint or flush the previous connection and establish a new one?

#

📎 unknown.png

#

the download is interrupted (at green text), the stream is closed. Then after some time connection is restored, and I create a new instance and try to run my thread with new HttpWebRequest but I get

#

📎 unknown.png

#

After closing the application and running anew everything works again. The first request is successful - I receive the response stream, but after a reconnect (even with the same network, I am testing with LAN at the moment on my PC) it keeps throwing timeout error. I think that I am not disposing something correctly, here is the code for disposal.

#

         Debug.Log("Naturally Closed " + GetHashCode());
            DownloadFile.Flush();
            DownloadFile.Close();
            DownloadFile.Dispose();
            DownloadFile = null;
            response.Close();
            response.Dispose();
            response = null;
            _isbusy = false;
            AsyncThread.Join();

flint palm Sep 10, 2019, 8:04 AM

#

I found and answer in stackoverflow that says the connection lease is by default set to 4 minutes and that seems to be the problem, but trying request.ServicePoint.ConnectionLeaseTimeout = 5000; returns a NotImplementedException -_-. Any help please?

crimson dune Sep 10, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

... is the built-in or the in-alpha unity network stuff suitable for any use at all?

#

it appears that the alpha network stuff is mostly implemented in C#, which I suspect makes it a complete non-starter for absolutely anything

#

because i'm pretty sure that MTGA's network is implemented with it, and I can see that it's not suitable for anything, if it is

remote sail Sep 11, 2019, 8:01 AM

#

The new unity multiplayer system is hot garbo right now, unet+mirror is the best choice imo

#

Multiplayer still needs a loooottt of time in the oven

crimson dune Sep 11, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

hey @remote sail thanks for the input. mirror?

#

basically, i'm working on a plan for a non-game application, that will need to have at least 2, maybe more, systems rendering potentially different views into a 3d world . . which is probably wanting to be served from a dedicated headless server.

#

seems like something like that should be pretty easy to implement if you have any kind of multiplayer anything... but my searches to figure out how unity multiplayer works, has really only come up with broken documentation, people complaining about how useless it is, and unity themselves deprecating it without having a replacement.

stray scroll Sep 11, 2019, 11:30 AM

#

@crimson dune Mirror is fork of old UNET if I'm not wrong. I'm using the new Multiplayer for my long term project, you will need to get your hands a bit more dirty to use it, as it's not as user friendly as other things. There are also other 3D party stuff you can use like Photon and DarkRift2.

crimson dune Sep 11, 2019, 11:35 AM

#

basically, what we want to do, is just have a 3d world, with a server keeping track of it, and replicating the things in that world to all the clients. the clients will just control a camera, which theoretically, the server should never even need to know exists. i think i'm just going to have to start an empty project and screw with some things, because studying for the problem seems fruitless.

gray pond Sep 11, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

@crimson dune What you describe is a first person "game". I know yours isn't a game, but it's mechanically the same. Jaws is correct that Mirror is a much improved replacement of UNet.
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321

crimson dune Sep 11, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

certainly. nicely, that asset store page tells me more about it, and how to operate it, than i managed to learn yesterday about the entire topic.

#

i wonder if this suffers from being framerate bound, as i suspect is a thing that happens by being built in C#, and is absolutely a problem in the one multiplayer Unity game I'm aware of

gray pond Sep 11, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

@crimson dune Please stop by Mirror's Discord (linked from that Asset Store page [Chat]) to get all your technical questions answered 🙂

ripe axle Sep 11, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

Is there any way to test netcode without first building a copy?

#

This is abysmally slow

gray pond Sep 11, 2019, 6:34 PM

#

Do iterative testing in separate projects that isolate small bits of your game before merging them into the large final project.

jade glacier Sep 11, 2019, 10:29 PM

#

Yup, what Gadget said. Do your networking code in its own smaller project if need to. You just want to work out your controller code and networking code without any of the design/level stuff that isn't critical to that.

stray scroll Sep 12, 2019, 7:47 AM

#

When you structure your game code in your projects, do your main folders separate by server/client/mixed folders, or are you do split it on leaf, or doesn't mark it except maybe connection code? ^^ : )

ripe axle Sep 12, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

Alright, another question re: developing netcode. I'm working on a VR application, so when I try to run two clients they compete for control of the HMD. Currently my approach is simply to disable VR while running multiple clients on the same machine, but this isn't a great solution as I might at some point need to test VR + netcode. Can anyone think of a way to do this without using multiple machines? I can do that if I have to but I'd rather not.

ripe axle Sep 12, 2019, 12:54 PM

#

Has anyone here used DarkRift2 and Mirror? If so, could you tell me a little about your experience with the two?

stray scroll Sep 12, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

@ripe axle I've used DarkRift 2 a bit. It's somewhat of a socker wrapper with some awareness of connection , and seralization. It's sort of in the middle of low level and high level code. You can create whatever you want very easy if you're familiar with writing network code, else you might want to look for something more high level : )

ripe axle Sep 12, 2019, 3:07 PM

#

I've been playing with it for the past couple of hours and it immediately makes a lot more sense than Mirror/UNET. Guess that low level networking module at uni paid off!

stray scroll Sep 12, 2019, 3:09 PM

#

You can choose of using the dakrift server or using your own by adding the server script in code. They have an active discord channel as well if you need help : )

#

If you want to do physics n' stuff on server I would recommend for simplicity doing unity server : ) Else you have to add that logic as plugins on darkrift server

solar garden Sep 12, 2019, 5:30 PM

#

silly networking question : to connect to the game i have to 1) open the ports to the server local ip, 2) host the game with said local ip and 3) connect with the public ip. Right ?

ancient depot Sep 12, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

Hey I was thinking of how could it be possible to create a unity online multiplayer game that won't be playable without a game client. I want to make a matchup search in a client with users and run the game made in unity through the client sending as arguments the user to the game and connect then together and at the end of the match terminate the game and send the results of each player back to the game client, any idea?

#

@solar garden Yeah

remote sail Sep 12, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

@ripe axle just brainstorming, you could use VRidge with your smartphone as another headset and install the game on another PC (you don't need perfect perfomance, any old pc should do)

ripe axle Sep 12, 2019, 11:06 PM

#

That'd be fine, but that means constantly updated the source on two machines - kinda long :s

solid veldt Sep 13, 2019, 7:51 AM

#

I'm thinking of using Mirror for my current gameproject. I've used it in tests before and it works nicely. But my current project has a simulation running on another thread (it's a factory game, kinda like factorio).
Now I'm trying to figure out if mirror would work in this situation and how to implement this.
Is there a way to sync the state of the simulation (bare in mind it's running on another thread)?
Every gameobject that is using the simulation has a reference to it's simulated object. Is it a good idea to not sync the simulation and simply sync the gameobjects on clients (only the host knows about the simulation)?

#

So basically I want to know:

Should I sync the simulation and calculate all gameobjects from that simulation?
OR should only the host run the simulation and clients directly sync gameobjects?

stray scroll Sep 13, 2019, 8:38 AM

#

Still wondering this^^ ; When you structure your game code in your projects, do your main folders separate by server/client/mixed folders, or are you do split it on leaf, or doesn't mark it except maybe connection code?

ripe axle Sep 13, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

As you know I'm knew to multiplayer games... however with server/client architectures in general I prefer to keep them as entirely separate codebases. I'll get back to you next week on how well that works for a Unity project 😅

jade glacier Sep 13, 2019, 12:46 PM

#

@solid veldt Depends really what you mean by your simulation

#

Good networking is all about isolating your Inputs/States out - ideally as numbered ticks

#

your sim should look like Inputs[x] -> State[x] = State[x+1]

#

if that is your case, you should be able to isolate your inputs into a ring buffer, and your states into ring buffers as well

#

which leads you to what you are after... which is..

#

Messaging <> Buffers <> Simulation

#

Messaging and Simulation should never touch one another, nor really even be aware nor care about one another

#

Messaging is used to replicate the inputs/states across machines, and populate the buffers.

Simulation pulls inputs and states from the buffers, to produce new states which go back into the buffer.

That just leaves dealing with missing data (late/lost packets) with extrapolation, and resolving desyncs.

jade glacier Sep 13, 2019, 1:25 PM

#

You are having this convo in two places, so no need to respond both here and in Mirror btw

#

Gadget is going to give you a wildly different set of answers

#

But it really will come down to what your Simulation is

solid veldt Sep 13, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

Well that would be true if I went full low/mid-level networking, but I want to use Mirror which afaik already handles all that stuff.
So to keep it simple a progressbar is a good example I think.
Let's say a building has some kind of progress in the simulation (e.g. at 50%).
Now the options are: I'll send over the whole state of the simulation and the progress bar that the client sees will be set according to the received simulation or the client doesn't care about the simulation and I just sync the progressbar as is

#

Well, more answers = more ideas 😛

jade glacier Sep 13, 2019, 1:28 PM

#

It doesn't actually handle this particular thing. It can't be aware of your state/input arrangement. Mirror is mostly messaging layers, so when you start talking about your simulation sync - doing it correctly is going to require some more work from you, but for huge gains if done right.

#

otherwise, if you go with Mirror's RPCs/Syncvars - they create their own state system, which runs on an arbitrary timing. That might not be what you are after.... but again comes down to how good your sim is currently at abstracting itself into inputs and states.

#

You can stay within it if you use RPCs and send out like a byte[] of your serialized states

#

RPCs are just MessageBase with some restrictions

#

The process for getting your entire state into an RPC will look about the same as doing a NetworkClient/Server.Send() - so little difference there really

#

The messaging conduit you choose isn't important - what is important is that if you have a tick based sim, that you make your networking take advantage of that.

spiral glen Sep 13, 2019, 2:10 PM

#

Whats the best way to flip the board for a multiplayer game? Rotating most things seems weird but it looks like its the best way to do it

#

Im trying to make a multiplayer fire emblem game

#

If that helps visualise what I am trying to achieve

jade glacier Sep 13, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

Why not have a dummy obj at 0,0,0, and make the camera a child of that? @spiral glen

#

and rotate that dummy 180? Your lighting may be an issue, but that keeps everything static

spiral glen Sep 13, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

Problem with that is the fact that I then have to rotate all the units

#

Is there a reason I need a dummy object instead of just rotating the camera?

jade glacier Sep 13, 2019, 2:39 PM

#

Just easier, since the camera wants to rotate around the center of the world

#

ah, if the units all have to turn to face as well... not sure there is a basic simple answer.

solid veldt Sep 14, 2019, 9:39 AM

#

I have a player with networkIdentity. The player has a child-gameobject with an attached Weapon-behaviour. The weapon has an int magazine. I want to sync that int in the Weapon-Behaviour. That's not really possible, is it?
Because I would have to make the Weapon-Behaviour a NetworkBehaviour in order to use [SyncVar]. But that network-behaviour requires a network-identity on the weapon. But the weapon can't have a network-identity because there can only be one per prefab
(Using Mirror)

gray pond Sep 14, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

cross-post - answered in Mirror's Discord.

autumn yew Sep 14, 2019, 3:38 PM

#

To someone who knows little to none about multiplayer - What would you recommend? Where to start learning, Which APIs (like Mirror, Photon but without service and not p2p) to get, Which unity assets to get, etc?

solar tendon Sep 14, 2019, 6:07 PM

#

is there anyone here who can help me for a few moments 1 on 1 regarding setting up a client/server relationship that can pass information to one andother?

#

Example: i have created a scene that has a "Server" game object with a custom "Server" script i wrote which creates empty game objects with blank string variables. I would like my "client" build to be able to connect to the "server" build and tell the server code to execute a command within th server C# script and pass it information. for a quick example ill say i was my client to send":

Server.GetComponent<Server>.AddInformation,("Hello", GoodBye");

so that the seerver running build would then create the blank game object with parameters "Hello" and GoodBye" passed ot the variables within.

note: my server code for the AddInformation function already contains 2 string paramters to add the information into it

stray scroll Sep 17, 2019, 3:14 PM

#

Anyone have resources how to deal with like database flows in multiplayer games? Like if a player logs into a game, and joins a gameserver etc

proud ice Sep 17, 2019, 11:17 PM

#

what size game? what DB are you using, and what language is your server-side software?

#

size = playerbase here

#

I would recommend sqlite for a "project". On a professional level there is a package in package manager that allows the use of external services/processes on the clientside which could help with that bottleneck

#

"Subsystem-Registration"

stray scroll Sep 18, 2019, 8:56 AM

#

@proud ice I'm more of looking into the theoretical right now. But for example lets say look at dungeon defenders. They have some lobby where you can run around do shopping etc, and actual game rooms. I would imagine that the lobby and gameplay room are different servers, would both need to lookup player information like items etc, or would that be transferred between servers? Also some simple stuff like, if server A is connected to client, and want it to connect to server B. How is this made? Do server A tell server B IP/clientID or generated ID?, and then tells the client to connect to server B IP with generated ID or something? 😛

candid igloo Sep 18, 2019, 9:08 AM

#

Usually all the data is on the same server

stray scroll Sep 18, 2019, 9:18 AM

#

@candid igloo How do you mean?

small vector Sep 18, 2019, 10:13 AM

#

Hello friends,
I'm developing MMORPG with Unity.
I am writing Server with .Core.
I'm going to share a video of my play. Could you please watch the video and give me your opinion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Brh7w-LjOg

YouTube

Numan Kaan Karataş

Unity Online Oyun v1.0.7

Artık Eğitim Ücretsiz !! Kanalıma Abone Olarak Kendi Online Oyununu Yapabilirsin. WhatsApp gibi bir program yazabilirsin. C# Windows Formları Oluşturabilirsi...

▶ Play video

sleek saffron Sep 18, 2019, 12:10 PM

#

Hello! Anyone have any suggestions for analytics in Unity? Basically what I'm looking for is a paid solution with proper data security/privacy, in other words, the data isn't used by the service provider or sold to third parties

blissful harness Sep 18, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

Hi guys, I'm wondering is there anyone know how to sync LocalAvatar for Multiplayer VR?

Im working on running project using Photon Classic and Oculus Integration. I've done following tuts here https://doc.photonengine.com/en-us/pun/current/demos-and-tutorials/oculusavatarsdk but it seems that for Photon v2

I've done something similar for HTC Vive before using VRTK and Photon classic and I was successful. but somehow for Oculus SDK I'm stucked

Maybe you have some similar experience ? any help / clue would be appreciated. Thanks !

Oculus Avatar | Photon Engine

Photon Unity Networking framework for realtime multiplayer games and applications with no punchthrough issues. Export to all Unity supported platforms, no matter what Unity license you have!

weak plinth Sep 19, 2019, 8:28 AM

#

@stray scroll If you want to learn about game networking, learn about game networking. Avoid any high level api's like mirror and pun. Learn about the actual concepts of networking

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:15 PM

#

I actually learned with Unet HLAPI, so I think you can - but you HAVE to dig into what it is doing and know what it is doing. Don't let the netlib be a black box or you will cripple yourself. Over time you likely will start to use less and less of those HLAPIs until you basically are ready to go right at the Transport yourself

#

The benefit of starting with a HLAPI is you can get right to having working connections and netobj ids... so you can get right into learning serialization. Then you can at some point create your own net objects and middle layer if you choose to.

#

The other option is start from the bottom up, just connecting and sending hello world.

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:19 PM

#

@jade glacier o/

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:20 PM

#

Heyo

#

Just finished our coffee and breakfast out on the ocean front patio here in sunny Mexico. 🙂 @graceful zephyr Things getting chilly up there in the great white north?

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:21 PM

#

yeah negative degrees last night

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:21 PM

#

Gack.

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

i like the cold

#

so

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

Marissa really wants to hit your region, maybe even for raising a kid... but we are traveling almost non-stop chasing summer - so I am a bit worried we may be so declimatized we may never be able to live north again.

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:22 PM

#

no complaints from me

#

you were raised in a more northern climate also right?

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:23 PM

#

ish

#

Connecticut USA

#

which is New England... so very cold winters, very hot summers

#

But that was ages ago

#

last decades have been like Oregon/Texas

#

Oregon you get rain in the winter, Texas you get no winter in the winter

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:24 PM

#

we had around -20 to -30C coldest where i grew up during winters, -25C is -13F for reference

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:24 PM

#

Christ

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:24 PM

#

So i was born in the cold, molded by it... you merely adopted it 😄

#

the north remembers.

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

we saw negative F a few times in Connecticut... even as kids that was ouch

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

-20C or less we got to stay home from school

#

happened quite a bit

#

😄

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

well yeah, your vehicles probably thanked you for not trying to start them at those temps

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

oh volvos and shit work in those degrees

#

the volvos sold up north in sweden are equipped with special... idk wtf it is, stuff

#

to make them work in those weathers

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:29 PM

#

The engines must have some special alloy and ring choices maybe?

#

May be why they always had legendary longevity

#

Other countries can be sloppy with mats and tolerances

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:36 PM

#

@jade glacier tons of stuff for those cold weathers

jade glacier Sep 19, 2019, 2:38 PM

#

Fucking swedes

#

I am seeing more and more Swedish related news/industry stuff/etc lately. Sweden seems to be really popping up more lately on the world stage.

#

@graceful zephyr

graceful zephyr Sep 19, 2019, 2:41 PM

#

eh idk

#

maybe we are?

#

😄

#

lol

stray scroll Sep 19, 2019, 5:41 PM

#

@weak plinth I don't really understand your comment :p I never said anything about APIs? I asked if anyone have any resources of how databases are used with games, where player connection moves between servers.

native fossil Sep 19, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

Does unity have a build in a system for websockets? The only info I found was marked as obsolete. If not is there recommended alternative?

gray pond Sep 19, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

Mirror is the nearest replacement to abandoned UNet and supports WebGL and secure web sockets
https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321

#

@native fossil

native fossil Sep 19, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

Thanks I will try it out soarynGood

velvet tulip Sep 21, 2019, 10:22 AM

#

Can someone help me with unity PHOTON weapon selection menu?

mellow beacon Sep 21, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

If the stored data amount is relatively small it’s just straight replication

#

The way it exactly works depends on the database engine

#

https://www.sqlshack.com/sql-server-replication-overview-of-components-and-topography/

SQL Shack - articles about database auditing, server performance, data recovery, and more

SQL Server replication: Overview of components and topography

In this article, let’s you shape your understanding of the full SQL Server replication topography including components, internals and the SQL

#

@stray scroll

#

When you scale up quite a lot you can look into a micro service architecture and data sharding

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 8:12 AM

#

Question, how do people tend to go about peer to peer solutions? I've read about NAT punch through and relay servers. But do we always use one over the other, a mix of both? I can see why you might always want to use a relay server. At the cost of more networking usage, but oh well. I'm also curious how people get relay servers, I've found that Steam has them, but couldn't really find other companies selling those kind of services. I also couldn't figure out if Steam has some sort of limit, or that you always have to pay for that. So do people in general just use Steam or are there better options? Since as far as I understood Steam only allows you to use it with Steam based games, so what about other shops / platforms?

undone sigil Sep 22, 2019, 10:31 AM

#

@void burrow In reality, P2P games are really really rare, cause of security issues, firewall issues, etc. People usually use a mix of both nat puch and relay. Relay servers are usually hosted by yourself, on a VPS or a dedicated server you have

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 10:32 AM

#

And what about using something existing like Steam their network relay system?

#

Do people use that, or is it just one big mess?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:15 PM

#

A relay is a server, its just a dumb server. The main advantage is that if your game type doesn't actually need much/any server logic you can develop and deploy in the exact same environment in one shot. You do lose the ability for server authority, so if your game is like a competitive shooter, you will have to wrestle with that and likely want to have a game server. @void burrow

#

A Nat punch removes that server entirely, which has other good and bad side effects

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:20 PM

#

In my case I'm interested in looking into co-op, so one of the players would be authoritive. In that case I can safely use a relay system right?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:20 PM

#

Depends what you want that host to be responsible for

#

relay adds a hop, so leaning on the Master too much will not be ideal, since its an extra trip for any Master authority stuff.

#

So for relay I tend to bias toward total player trust, and only use it for games where that is fine (friendly coop for example)

#

Master can act as an authority, but be aware that all comms to it from other players isother -> relay -> Master -> relay -> other

#

The benefit of a relay is when you aren't trying to make a master have too much authority, is players aren't tied to the Hosts connection quality, they all connect to a relay that is on a great internet connection, and if other players have icky connects, it won't degrade the entire game.

#

For PUN and I suspect other relay types, one of the players is always designated Master - so you can do some host-like authority stuff there - it just is best avoided

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

But still then there needs to be someone with authority over the others, otherwise you'll most likely get a lot of strange issue's.
What if 2 players pick up a weapon at the same time, who wins if both clients think they picked it up? And that are a lot of cases, from movement to picking up items, to shooting with a weapon. I don't think you can avoid a host.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:26 PM

#

Yeah, then you are face first into the limitations of not having a real server

#

you can make the host the auth, but be aware there is a latency cost there

#

and the Master will always win that race

#

For shooting, you definitely don't want to go down the road of rewind and shot verification on the Master

#

I made an networking asset that does that for both PUN and UNet, but I never recommended anyone make use of it in PUN

#

What you are describing sounds more like it wants to have a server

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

But then you've the problem that people need to set-up servers if they want to play with a couple of friends.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

I am talking to Tobi about the prospect of adding Relay Owned Objects to PUN2, but that is little more than a discussion at this point.

#

yup, welcome to networking 🙂

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:30 PM

#

Sigh 😂

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

There is a price for every choice

#

You can make use of Master

#

just know what the cost is

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:31 PM

#

In my eyes

#

Latency + the host which will win in every situation that has latency involved.

#

Which in a MP game is almost always lol

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:32 PM

#

I would in your case make the weapon grabs master auth, but make the weapon shooting fully player auth

#

You were talking friendly here

#

You can come up with other methods, and there are such things as server plugins for PUN

#

so you can compile in a little packet adjuster that for example lets the server time stamp all messages going through it...

#

and you could have your players determine after the fact who grabbed first

#

however, you can maybe get away with an easier fix

#

When you grab, that grab message goes to all players, the grabber included

#

So you can try to sort out who got it first just from that, but you may need some cleanup code in case the two machines got those packets in a different order

#

spot sending those grab requests as reliable may ensure agreement on the order

#

I haven't messed with that, so can't confirm or deny how that would play out.

#

You can flag a message on an unreliable stream to be reliable with PUN2

#

Make the Master at the very least not just "get" the item when it grabs it.. make it wait for the relay message to come back

#

That gets everyone on nearly even footing for that race

#

I am making a component system right now for PUN2

#

and item grabs is on my todo list, so this is a good exercise.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

So basically 2 choices.
Let's say I still want my co-op, but I don't want to exclude the possibility for a bit more competitive gameplay. I would have to go for a server on it's own.
But if I do exclude the possibility for it I could probably get away with a relay system and then have to live with some latency for authoritive systems.

Right?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/515987760281288711/624609723928412190/2019-09-20_09-11-56.mp4

This is PUN2
Connecting over a tethered 3g phone in Mexico to PUN2 relays in EU and back... so those two screens are two trips to EU and back.

▶ Play video

#

The middle answer is don't let the master just have its way instantly. Make it send out its requests like everyone else... and then respond to those requests from everyone (itself included) as the come in from the relay

#

That makes everyone's grab latency the same... they all have to bounce their request through the relay

#

For weapon fire, I would just fully favor the shooter. Full player authority on weapon fire. You WILL not stop/deter cheaters in this environment. You are just not likely going to have them if its a small friendly game. Best to add other tools for that, like letting players vote kick.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

Why can this never be simple 😂

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:49 PM

#

because its networking. You are trying to make believe two people 100s of MS apart are int he same room.

#

The less you care about hiding the fact that they are across the world, the easier it gets

#

Though what I am suggesting is in fact pretty easy

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

That's something I understand, I've seen a lot of talks about the subject. And all are about hiding latency. 😄

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

Make the Master process its own events just like all others.

#

When you try to pick something up... send a message to the Master (even though it is the Master) and process that request the same way you process all players requesting a grab

#

It in fact, may be easier

#

hiding latency, and dealing with desync yeah.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

If we totally exclude the possibility for competitive gameplay against other players yeah.

#

Hmmm

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

you will not make a really competitive game without hosting servers

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

But there's still a big difference between a shooter like CS:GO and playing with some friends against each other.

#

But in terms of networking not really of course.. You still want a authoritive server in that case.

#

My problem with trying to get a dedicated server up and running is that players would have to host and set it all up their selfs.

#

Which will not succeed for a lot of players. Since my guess would be that most people would want to host it on their own pc.
So that would require port forwarding. Which I don't think too much people do or know how to do.
Or simply don't want to spend the time in researching how to set it up.

#

And me hosting servers will probably not work for the main reason, that it costs too much money xd

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

You will actually magnify your problem if you Natpunch and player host, since in that case there is no relay you can bounce the hosts inputs off of.

#

Natpunch is really just about cost avoidance

#

it is the worst of all worlds for competitive play, because you REALLY end up giving the player hosting a massive advantage that is hard to hide.

#

I really see your best bet being to bounce the masters requests to itself through the relay like all other players.

#

That at least gets everyone on even footing

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

You could also fake the latency of course, instead of bouncing it to the relay. Less networking for the host 😄

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

faking latency on a host is a huge headache, but if you want to avoid the relay costs, that is possible.

#

Keep in mind natpunch can fail, and you need a natpunch server

#

Which again, lots of choices, just know the price you pay for each, either in time, player experience, or actual cash.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:14 PM

#

One question though, imagine using the relay system. Would Steam be an option for this, or should I really go for something hosted by for example Photon?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:14 PM

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I haven't touched the steam stuff so I can't actually comment sorry

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:16 PM

#

Alright, still thanks a LOT for the help! ❤
I'll be looking at the options, and see which fits best 🙂

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:17 PM

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https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/steamdatagramrelay

I assume you are referring to this for the relay?

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:17 PM

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Yes.

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Unfortunately I couldn't find a whole lot about it.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:18 PM

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Haven't touched it, but the concepts are likely similar. It isn't a HLAPI though, so you would likely need to work out that layer for things like object ids and such.

#

I doubt they have the equivalent of PhotonView or NetworkIdentity

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:19 PM

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Steam? That's literally sending a byte[] to other players.

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Maybe that someone has created something for it in the mean time.

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But last time I took a look at it, that was all.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:21 PM

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all networking pretty much is just that anyway

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Oh well 🤷

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:22 PM

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https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/simple-network-sync-134256 For my lib I bypass of of PUN/Unet serialization and am actually just sending a byte[] every tick. Its what all of the HLAPIs are doing, they just hide it.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:28 PM

#

I'm still wondering how people use physics server side, the main issue I just can't seem to figure out or find a proper explanation for.

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I sort of understand a concept for it, you buffer input from all players and then you apply that in a next tick. But how to exactly do so. No idea xd

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And applying other forces / objects to it, and all of that in a playable map of course. 😄

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Still all seems like black magic to me x)

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Basically how you want to think about it is Simulation

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Physics is just one kind of simulation, your own code each tick that produces states is simulation

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the kind of games you are talking about use the formula Inputs[x] -> State[x] = State[x+1]

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what you are networking is the inputs and or the states that system produces.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 2:44 PM

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My problem is how to simulate those things.

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In the terms you just said 😄

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 3:04 PM

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That really is networking... not the messaging

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Messaging <-> Buffers <-> Simulation

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Messaging and Simulation should never directly touch

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Buffers = Inputs and States

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 3:07 PM

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I was talking about the simulation part 🙂

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So simulating physics based on the buffers.

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That's the part I just can't figure out how to do.

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 3:42 PM

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The buffers are just inputs and states as @jade glacier stated above. If you f.ex. have a multiplayer game where you race with other wehicles (clients), and you increase the speed, then you will first let the server know about this (input[x] -> serverState[x]), and the server will in return apply this action to your game instance and the other clients as well to let them know you did so (serverState[x] -> all other clientsState[x]), so everything is the same for all clients. The physics gets done locally on the relevant game instance, thats all the "magic" there is to it. This kinda network distribution isnt very effective on fast-paced games, as it can become very laggy, so in those cases you would like to use techniques such as client prediction and server reconciliation and other techniques to cope with that. This is a pretty good article about those techniques: https://www.gabrielgambetta.com/client-server-game-architecture.html

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 3:47 PM

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But @burnt axle imagine having a client say they just clipped into the floor. How does the server simulate that and sees that it’s not possible what the client just did if all physics are client side? I’ll be reading your post btw 😄

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 4:01 PM

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Well, if the client just clipped the floor after getting commanded by the server to do something, then that glitch is on the clients physics engine. In order for the server to detect that, it would match the states, if they are different then it either means the player glitched or cheated. Thats not my post btw.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 4:18 PM

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And exactly that is my issue, I just don't know how I can simulate that moment and correct it. Or in general simulate how a player moves through the world 😦

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 4:28 PM

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Well, i dont know how to produce glitches within Unity, and i hope its hard lol. If it does happen however, you could just clarify it as cheating. If you are new in Unity, there are plenty of Unity learning resources to get you going: https://learn.unity.com/

Unity Learn

Unity Learn provides award-winning free tutorials, sample projects, and full courses for mastering real-time 3D development skills with Unity Learn to make video games, VR, AR, and more.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 4:30 PM

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There aren't really any up to date networking solutions from Unity it self, so I doubt they have a solution for this.
But I think I'm explaining my problem in the wrong way, since I'm not talking about a glitch in Unity it self. I'll draw something hold on 😄

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 4:39 PM

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The upside is if you build your simulation out and separate it from the messaging layer... you code will adapt a LOT easier down the line as things evolve.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 4:43 PM

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https://gyazo.com/9749df9f044915dd9be8affa646d0e7d

Gyazo

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 4:49 PM

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This would cause the server state to unmatch the client state, and you could look at it as "cheating", when technically its an impossible action. When you make the multiplayer game, its up to you how to handle this stuff, but i guess starting with letting the player move in valid directions is a good start 😛

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 4:51 PM

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When you make the multiplayer game, its up to you how to handle this stuff
And that's the part where it goes wrong for me, I just don't know how to handle this and was hoping someone in here had some kind of example or anything at all which could get me started on doing so.

#

Something a little more than just the concept on how to do all this networking stuff.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 4:56 PM

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if the server and client come up with different sim results, that is a desync, and that is part of your networking how to resolve that... the most common and most solid is "resim"

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that is the client that disagrees takes the incoming server state, rewinds to where they disagreed... applies that state... and then resimulates all of the inputs and ticks that followed back to current

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that has the highest chance of getting back into determinstic sync

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Once the thing causing disagreement clears, they should be happily back in agreement

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 4:58 PM

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But @jade glacier how do I create the simulation in the first place? I get the concept of it, but I just can't figure out a way how to exactly simulate it inside code.

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 4:58 PM

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You should only let the players do legal movements. In order to avoid mismatch between server and client states, in such scenario, you could check if there is a valid distance between the floor and the player BEFORE you move send the input to the server. Or you could go with @jade glacier's solution, which is better since it covers more scenarios.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Desyncs typically are a result of the timeframe difference

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or, they can be from just flaws in the physics engine that prevent determinism

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or, they can be due to lost packets and the server having to guess inputs and getting it wrong

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Players walking into one another if they can block one another is a common cause of desync, and why in most games where players can block one another things get squirrely when you bump into other players

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@burnt axle yeah, I would always go for keeping the inputs legal - though that should be happening anyway since you are passing player inputs.

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But things can still desync even with that agreeing, because of either the timeframe difference (the player lives in the future locally) for non-deterministic... or because of a bad input extrapolation guess for determinism.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 5:04 PM

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But how do I go about creating the simulation part on the host/server in code? Because I can't find any examples, barely anyone makes posts about networking in general. Let alone me finding how to create a simulation system.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

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basically look at physx

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

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Create a project in Unity, then do some illegal inputs, then log the server states.

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM

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FixedUpdate = PreSimulation where you apply inputs to the State (physx) and it produces internally a new State.

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You need a way to store/serialize your states after the simulation, be it PhysX or your own code.

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 5:08 PM

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I cant use isServer method of NetworkBehaviour in my script, any idea on why this is?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:08 PM

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Where are you checking it?

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(I assume this is Mirror or UNet?) @burnt axle

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 5:08 PM

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Unet

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:10 PM

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You might be checking it before OnStartServer has happened?

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I usually just use NetworkServer.active in most cases

burnt axle Sep 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

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That did it, i like that intellisense suggests methods which only are available after an event. Does even NetworkServer.active and NetworkBehaviour.isServer indicates the objects that its called from is the server/host? Cause thats what i want.

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 5:14 PM

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@jade glacier Imagine I've the peer to peer solution with 1 host again, thus the host is running the networking code inside Unity. Unity has PhysX abstracted behind all kind of stuff. You can't simulate states etc. from within Unity as far as I'm aware. You could literally add them as game objects, but I don't think that's something you want as it then would be updated at Unity it's 'tick rate' instead of your own and probably costing a lot more CPU power. And it sounds like a real bad idea to include PhysX as a separate dependency in Unity. How am I suppose to simulate it then?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:19 PM

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You can mostly get States out of PhysX

#

its just the rb. values

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rb.position, rb.velocity, rb.rotation etc

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I actually made a PhysX server auth with player input sync test with 2018's physics update

#

and it worked very well. Some missed syncs, but mostly rare so not a lot of resimming

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Is it open source?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Nope, its my personal lib and taped together with rubber bands and duct tape just to complete the test.

📎 2019-04-18_00-29-08.mp4

void burrow Sep 22, 2019, 5:31 PM

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But how are you syncing the objects if you're just using plain rigidbodies?

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Just sending out the data every physics step?

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And predicting it on the client?

jade glacier Sep 22, 2019, 5:47 PM

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Players each own like 10 of those balls

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and simulate them locally, and any disagreements from the server sim show up as a red widget on them for a tick

#

For the samples with player input, yeah - I sample that every fixed and send that to the server

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This one isn't applying player inputs, it was just a test of resim

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But I have tests with player inputs as well correcting

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The inputs are applied locally to objects the player owns, and applied on the server based on all of the players inputs it collected for those frames

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Then it sends out the resulting complete state (all of the balls results) to everyone

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each player checks their owned objects history against that, and determines if any balls need a resim

stray scroll Sep 22, 2019, 7:09 PM

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@mellow beacon Thanks, I'll check them out tomorrow 🙂

desert drum Sep 22, 2019, 7:24 PM

#

Hi I'm looking for Programmers but MAINLY Designers for a small game development company i'm making. We're just making those 2d simple addicting games you would find on the app store and we just need programmers, but mainly designers to join the team! The money situation is based on percentage based revenue split. Please private message me if you're interested!

fading pawn Sep 23, 2019, 5:18 AM

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@jade glacier How are you resimulating the physics to catch up to the present frame?

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 5:20 AM

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Second physics scene has lightweight clones of net objects

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Those get rewound on the client side to what the server state was, then previous inputs are reapplied and Physics. Simulate () is run for each tick back to current. Results are copied to the primary scene..

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@fading pawn

fading pawn Sep 23, 2019, 5:22 AM

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any idea if any of the new physics options in Unity support individual rigidbody simulation rather than multiscene hacks?

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since there's like 5 options now

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 5:25 AM

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If it's one Rb, you can just resim that in the other scene. Though you may want other objects to be part of that sim. Depends on your game. Not aware of a per request resim option without a scene, but haven't looked that close.

fading pawn Sep 23, 2019, 5:26 AM

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yeah that's what my sample does, but Unity has new physics options I haven't looked into https://blogs.unity3d.com/2019/03/19/announcing-unity-and-havok-physics-for-dots/

Unity Technologies Blog

Announcing Unity and Havok Physics for DOTS – Unity Blog

During our GDC Keynote, we announced our partnership with Havok to build a next-generation physics system for Unity. Today, we want to give you more detail...

ripe axle Sep 23, 2019, 8:03 AM

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Hey friends, so I'm making a networking application with physics objects. I would like server authority over the physics to keep everything in check, and I have that 'working'. However, it's also important that clients be able to manipulate these objects, so my question from a high-level perspective is how should I go about this? Do I give clients temporary authority over the particular objects they're manipulating? Is there another way to go about it? Gimme a ping if you have any insight, cheers :)

graceful zephyr Sep 23, 2019, 8:46 AM

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@ripe axle client side prediction

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Look it up

ripe axle Sep 23, 2019, 8:52 AM

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@graceful zephyr thanks, I am aware of client-side prediction. However that doesn't really answer my question as to whether I should be switching authority for objects at runtime.

graceful zephyr Sep 23, 2019, 8:52 AM

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Yes it does

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Prediction implies there's no authority

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Because if you have authority, you don't predict

patent saddle Sep 23, 2019, 10:34 AM

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Well, assuming you have a server and all that.

It should push the object on the server, predict on the client side(so everything is smooth) but still do everything on the server.

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 1:11 PM

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I'm making a multiplayer game. Only my host, not the clients, can see networked objects.

The networked objects have a Network Identity component and are registered in the Network Manager. They don't have "Server Only" or "Local Player Authority" ticked.

Why can't my clients see the networked objects?

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

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Is this with Mirror?

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@formal marsh

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

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Yes

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But I don't think the problem is Mirror-related

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I had it working

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:28 PM

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It is

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Now suddenly it isn't working anymore

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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You have to have a local player object

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if you do not, nothing will be visible

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Well I do, my player prefab is local

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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You have a local player object spawned on all of your clients?

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Yes

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:30 PM

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Then you need to go to the mirror discord for help

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:30 PM

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It's just the environment that is missing. All NPCs, trees, food to pickup

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:30 PM

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because what you are describing is what happens when you don't have a local player object

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:37 PM

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Hm, even considering the following?

I just tried running it with two build clients (no client in the Unity Editor).
Both host and client can see the objects here

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:39 PM

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What you are describing sounds like a very common problem with Mirror, which is if you have no local player object spawned yet, all net objects will remain inactive.

#

You have a player on the client that you are moving around, and it appears on the host moving around?

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And are you in the Mirror discord? They can walk you through that.

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:43 PM

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Yes, I have a player on both clients, and they can see each other moving around
I am in the Mirror discord 🙂

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:44 PM

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Sounds like you need MrGadget then. If you have local players, then it is something different I am not aware of.

formal marsh Sep 23, 2019, 2:48 PM

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Well, thank you for looking at it 🙂

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 2:51 PM

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np, gl

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 7:35 PM

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What is the easiest way to message a server from a client? Alot of the message methods in the Unity docs are obsolete

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 8:09 PM

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I assume UNet from the context of your question?

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[Command] is the "easiest", but also the most restrictive. It has to be on your player object to work.

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The alternative is to register your own handlers and either send a MessageBase derived message, or send a writer directly.

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Yeah Unet. I totally forgot about Command lol. But since it wont work with non-player-objects i need to do the alternate. How would i go about doing the handler way? I guess its also the best way to create a static class, that can handle all this stuff, so i dont rewrite all the code in every object that needs to do it

gray pond Sep 23, 2019, 8:31 PM

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@burnt axle Mirror is the replacement for UNet https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321

#

Cmd's can be invoked on the player object or any networked scene object that the client has authority over.

#

Beyond that, scene objects maybe don't need to talk to the server much, since the server should already know what's going on around a networked object. Player scripts can also call a Cmd that takes a GameObject as a parameter, as long as it's a networked object in the scene, and do GetComponent<> on that object inside the Cmd to invoke methods, set prop values, etc. so you can leave the code on the objects and just call those methods from inside a Cmd.

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 8:46 PM

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I just want to debug the remote player with simple logging, and using the Cmd works fine for that since it runs server side. The networked gameobject parameter sounds neat

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 8:53 PM

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I believe in UNet command is localPlayer object only (based on their own docs). Can't speak to Mirror or if they changed that restriction. @burnt axle

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 8:55 PM

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Yeah, i forgot to remove a Cmd method from a networked gameobject which no local players has authority over, and it gave a warning saying "Trying to send command for object without authority", so i guess thats right!

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 8:56 PM

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What may be wrong in the docs is that you may only need authority, as Gadget suggested. Their docs say otherwise though.

#

Unet explicitly says command only works on YOUR player object.

#

Mirror may also have changed that restriction.

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 9:02 PM

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I think it only works on the local player and the objects it has authority over. I havent read the docs for the command so im not sure.

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 9:12 PM

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That is what is in question... secondary authority objects

#

UNet/Mirror you have localPlayer, and that is a very different thing from authority

#

Command I believe USED to (and may still) only care about the object being the local player object (every connection can only have one of those - a bad design choice, but they made that bed - now everyone lives in it)

#

I would have to trial and error it to know the correct answer - but sounds like you are doing that right now.

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 9:17 PM

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Yeah, i just tested with a object that a local player (client, not server) has authority over and it worked

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

But have you tried it with a non-player object? That that connection has authority over?

#

Regardless, the primary use is that... the player object... with authority. Not sure what other variations do and don't work.

burnt axle Sep 23, 2019, 9:21 PM

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Yes, it didnt work as it gave me an warning.

jade glacier Sep 23, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

You now officially know more about it than MrGadget or myself 🙂

weak lava Sep 24, 2019, 1:23 PM

#

Hi do you guys got / know any resources about Gamer Servers - Architecture,Client - server archritecture and stuff like this. I'd like to know more about that topic.

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:27 PM

#

gafferongames.com used to be the place to go

#

https://web.archive.org/web/20181130233124/https://www.gafferongames.com/

No idea how messed up web archives for it will be... graphics and animations were kind of important.

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I was wondering where to begin learning about networking in unity. I have nothing extravagant planned, just a coop game with three players so preferably peer to peer since that would mean no servers to maintain(?).

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:29 PM

#

PUN2 is typically the go to for starting with serverless

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:30 PM

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Thanks! Would it otherwise be hard to turn some old computers into servers?

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:31 PM

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Make a few demo games with some of the various libraries first

#

Before you even start trying to think about deployment

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by demo, I mean garbage... because first net game attempts will be dumpster fires. Don't make anything you care about for those.

#

And you really don't want to host on some old servers... deployment is a whole study in its own. Make some stuff so you get familiar with the landscape before trying to guess any of this.

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:34 PM

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Ok, but is it even realistic to hope that I would be able to create a multiplayer game with no upkeep costs?

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I do not want to get my hopes up since this is just a hobby of mine

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:34 PM

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if you have users, you will have costs

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for very small scale, you might get away with hosting on your home connection

#

But that is pretty much a failed business model right out of the gate

#

If its just for a hobby and you expect no real users, sure - you can deploy at home

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:37 PM

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Okay nice so basically if I have no users I can just deploy it at home for me and my friends and if I actually make something good I will hopefully have some small amount of revenue to cover the upkeep costs, nice

#

Thanks for the advice, will check out PUN2

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:39 PM

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PUN2 doesn't require you to host

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Forge, Mirror, UNet you can host

#

you need to make that choice based on your game type

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:39 PM

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Ok. One more question though, what do you mean by "various libraries"? As I said I am merely a hobbyist.

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:40 PM

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Forge, UNet, PUN2, Mirror, Bolt, MLAPI are HLAPIs

#

Then there are the transports, that do nothing for you but set up connections, which I am guessing will be too low level for you.

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:41 PM

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I have not set my mind to anything yet so I'll see

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:41 PM

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And you will not make any money with small scale networking games

vernal relic Sep 24, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Got to go now though, but thank you so much for the advice!

jade glacier Sep 24, 2019, 1:42 PM

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So if money is a hope, you either go big or you don't go at all on that front.

#

GL

naive gazelle Sep 25, 2019, 5:18 AM

#

who's there

native pebble Sep 25, 2019, 7:29 PM

#

Hi everyone! Is there anyone here who could help me solving why most of the scenes and assets disappear from the editor after testing the unet network hosting and then stopping the hosting? I am using multiple scenes and everything disappears except the lobby scene when I stop the hosting. There are no functionalities in the game yet, these are just the "Lan host" / "Stop" buttons. If it helps, when I make a build and start it, nothing appears in the game.

Update: solved. Looks like everything will be destroyed, except the lobby scene, therefore I created a small script that only calls the DontDestroyOnLoad(this.gameObject); in the Start method and I added this script to all "Common" folders I wanted to keep, so now it works properly with multi scenes, too.

weak plinth Sep 26, 2019, 8:17 AM

#

@jade glacier You said to use a ringbuffer for storing of inputs right? You know of a good rb implementation?

radiant cave Sep 26, 2019, 8:43 AM

#

Hello! I just got started with the new unity transport layer
My code is this:

#

https://pastebin.com/NEucrawk

Pastebin

[C#] ServerBehaviour - Pastebin.com

#

https://pastebin.com/SFw6P0b3

Pastebin

[C#] ClientBehaviour - Pastebin.com

#

And I get the following errors

#

📎 unknown.png

#

I followed this guide for the code

#

https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/com.unity.transport/Documentation~/workflow-client-server.md

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

What could be wrong? I've been trying for hours and can't figure out, please help ❤

radiant cave Sep 26, 2019, 9:49 AM

#

So I sort of got it working

#

Took some time but it seems to work

#

Only two warnings left

#

📎 unknown.png

#

The code works. However the warnings are kinda scaring me off lol

#

I'll try to fix them, if anyone here knows how to fix them, please message me ❤

gleaming fossil Sep 26, 2019, 10:59 AM

#

@weak plinth Fholms does look quite nice
https://github.com/fholm/UnsafeCollections/blob/master/UnsafeCollections/Assets/UnsafeCollections/Collections/UnsafeRingBuffer.cs

GitHub

fholm/UnsafeCollections

A collection of collections for 'unsafe' C# code. Contribute to fholm/UnsafeCollections development by creating an account on GitHub.

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

@gray pond @dusky storm
https://github.com/vis2k/Mirror/blob/master/Assets/Mirror/Runtime/MessagePacker.cs

Does the current store version of Mirror still allocate? I thought those ToArray() calls were all removed? But with the current store version it is calling them every sendtoall call. It leads to a MemoryStream.ToArray() call which allocates a new byte[] every time unless I am mistaken.

GitHub

vis2k/Mirror

A community replacement for Unity's abandoned UNET Networking System. - vis2k/Mirror

#

Are you sure you don't want MemoryStream.GetBuffer() there instead of MemoryStream.ToArray() ? Or that your Pack<T> wants to be using ToArraySegment()?

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 2:26 PM

#

And the fuck is this? This is a primary conduit (one I need right now to get around your garbage generation)... why is it internal?

📎 unknown.png

gray pond Sep 26, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

We've a couple PR's in the works for allocation-free messages...stay tuned.

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 2:32 PM

#

I thought this stuff was all finished months ago?

gray pond Sep 26, 2019, 2:35 PM

#

Maybe you want public virtual bool TransportSend(int channelId, byte[] bytes)?

#

If you override public virtual bool Send<T> you can call TransportSend directly from your override

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 2:43 PM

#

nope, you have no spec in your transports is the core issue I think Vis and Paul are dealing with

#

the transport base needs a send(byte[], bytecount) and or a send(arraysegment<byte>)

#

without those, they need a presized byte... which means an allocation

#

All of the transports need to be able to accept byte[] and length, or arraysegment - or else this problem isn't going anywhere

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Also looks like the whole send process queues the byte[] data, which is going to complicate reuse of any buffers.

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So yeah, not an easy fix the way things are currently wired.

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 3:24 PM

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@gray pond I can't override Send<T> in an asset, and it wouldn't matter anyway. TransportSend() is exactly what Send() calls.

So for some reason Send(byte[]) with all of its checks and warning messages is NOT safe for users to use and is hidden, but TransportSend(byte[]) which has none of those IS public? That seems a bit backwards.

Not that it matters, neither of them currently are conducive to nonalloc sends.... so its all moot at this point.

jade glacier Sep 26, 2019, 4:39 PM

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// for when we want to dequeue and remove all of them at once without
// locking every single TryDequeue.
public bool TryDequeueAll(out T[] result)
{
    lock(queue)
    {
        result = queue.ToArray();
        queue.Clear();
        return result.Length > 0;
    }
}```

The whole system is storing the byte[]s sent to the transport for some deferred writing, so Vis has some work ahead of him it looks like @gray pond 

I can see why this knot is taking so long to untangle.

dreamy solstice Sep 27, 2019, 4:46 AM

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So if you make an online game and publish it on steam do you need a server of your own? Or steam handles?

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 7:17 AM

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That not what steam does

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Whether you need servers or not it is up to you and what kind of game you are making

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Steam provides a subsystem to manage your server fleet and handle credentials and extra features

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 7:53 AM

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Anyone have any suggestions how to store credentials locally for relogin? (or if this is done in some other manner?) What I've done so far is to create a loginServer which gets sent username and password, hash the password with salt and checks vs database.

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:48 AM

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You can create a session token and store that locally @stray scroll

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So each time the player send data to server it includes the token in the header of the request

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 9:49 AM

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How does that work in practice? Random int from server, stored in database along with userID, sent back to client. Then next time client sends token and username instead of password? Isn't that just short term? Else somone can just grab the token as well 😛

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:49 AM

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No no

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I mean when the user is authenticated

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Server creates a unique token

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That the client holds

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And on every other request it uses the token in the header of the request

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 9:51 AM

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Ok, so it's just a session token

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:51 AM

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So the server do not need to hold a session anymore but process requests based on the private + public token

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 9:51 AM

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Basically a salt in the protocol

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:51 AM

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Yes and no

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You can look into oauth

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Which provides standardized strategies

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Pretty commonly used on web projects

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 9:54 AM

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Ok, will check it out. But my question was more aligned in, if the player wants to log in a second time (not same session), and not type in credentials. Is this covered as well? : ) Will check out anyways.

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:54 AM

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Logging in another device at the same time you mean ?

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 9:54 AM

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No same device. Just another time, but don't want to type username, password.

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 9:55 AM

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That’s exactly that

nocturne sierra Sep 27, 2019, 10:52 AM

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Hey

#

I've got a question (actually a large plea, after checking out the amount of text I wrote) regarding networking: I'm taking over as the programmer in a 2-man team for a MOBA-like game. It initially started development in early 2018 and had implemented a networking approach using a combination of Unity's HLAPI and LLAPI (I believe at least? Not too versed in either networking or Unity networking). Taking over and noticing the deprecation of UNet we decided it'd be best to update our project's version to leverage new Unity features and possibly recreate our networking side of things. I'm currently investigating the options available.

I've not done more than a few days of research into the topic but I have come across 2 possible solutions via deprecation FAQ and personal experience, those being Unity's (new) LL multiplayer solution found on GitHub and the Photon Multiplayer Engine (and affiliated products and services) by Exit Games.

Could you help me decide which one I should go for?

Currently Unity's solution seems promising as it allows me to possibly leverage, well, obviously Unity integration with things like Jobs (and very possibly but unlikely ECS in the future), along with documention, and I've researched their GitHub repo for it a bit.

Photon is something I've only heard of but never used myself and I'm just starting to look into it.

I'm also open to other available solutions. I've toyed a tiny bit with the idea my own handmade networking solution but that seems a bit overkill unless I dedicate a few months into it (which is possible but not desirable).

TL;DR; New programmer on project developed using UNet. Read about deprecation (the networking code already present isn't great anyway), decided to replace networking with either new Unity LL networking or Photon or something else entirely. Any advice?

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 10:57 AM

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@mellow beacon most examples I see are services wanting privileges on another service on clients behalf. :/ the other info I find is kind of trivial, just saying - have expiration, use secure protocol when sending, and store safely (?).

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What I don't understand is how do I store it safely? And is the only benefit from using a token instead of the password itself that it has a set expiration and can't be used for other applications?

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@nocturne sierra There are plenty of people asking where to go with your networking solution in this channel.

nocturne sierra Sep 27, 2019, 11:02 AM

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I should explore the history here then

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 11:02 AM

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If you're not going to use Entities, I'd advice against using the new Multiplayer

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Unitys diagram of how you should do x)
https://blogs.unity3d.com/2019/06/13/navigating-unitys-multiplayer-netcode-transition/

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You can use mirror (built form UNET) https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321, if you want to stick to similar code I guess.
Or you can use Photon, which I find very simple to use. But I think you need to use their cloud services(?).
I guess those two are the most popular options of what I've seen so far.

#

@nocturne sierra

nocturne sierra Sep 27, 2019, 11:08 AM

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Alright, thanks for your guidance, @stray scroll

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 11:24 AM

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@mellow beacon Yeah, so what I think I'll do is generate a token with an expiration date, which is only usable with sent MAC adress of computer.

vital hawk Sep 27, 2019, 11:48 AM

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I guess this is relevant here as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_-FoJuaYOI

YouTube

Unity

Introduction to the DOTS Sample and the NetCode that drives it - U...

Dive deep into the networked future of Unity using DOTS. Hear how we made the DOTS Sample a networked game, and what we learned on the way. Speaker: Tim Joha...

▶ Play video

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 1:14 PM

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Another question. How do you limit the player to only have one session active? Lets say my login server sends the user to lobby/hangout server, which might send the client to a game server. The only thing I can think of right now is to have a sessionDatabase, where the PlayerID is stored with serverID/(IP?PORT?), so on a login, I lookup if there is an entry and send a disconnect message to the server that might have a duplicate player?

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 1:37 PM

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@stray scroll Which networking package are you using?

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 1:39 PM

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what do you mean networking package? I'm using Multiplayer if that's what you're asking : )

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Unity's new thing? ok

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There's a couple ways to tackle this but either way they involved the game server and lobby server having a link back to the login server or a common database they all have access to.

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Shared DB: Login sets a flag when logged in, checks it against subsequent successful logins, and lobby and game both can clear it on disconnect.

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Heartbeat: Login keeps an in-memory list of who's on and Lobby and Game servers call back to Login on Disconnect. Might want the Login to ping the others periodically to verify they still have the logged in user if there's some possibility either Lobby or Game can crash or otherwise fail to reset the flag or make the callback.

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 1:54 PM

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SharedDB Doesn't seem to disconnect user on second login, but will prompt that a user is already logged in.

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Heartbeat seems to be the thing I'm looking for here : )

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:09 PM

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If it can prompt the client that the account is already in use it can send a disconnect

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:15 PM

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Not if the connection is not between it and the client, but another server and client?

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I mean, it is two connections going on here, one is clientA, and another clientB , both trying to use same account.

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:17 PM

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You want to block B because A is already on, no?

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first in wins

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:18 PM

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No opposite, kick out A because B is connecting.

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:18 PM

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Really? Why?

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:18 PM

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That's how I normally see its done? 😛 Guess more foolproof as well.

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:20 PM

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And when a customer gets their creds hacked or guessed, he gets randomly kicked and doesn't know why?

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:21 PM

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He would probably know why when it prompts that somone else logged in. And he can interrupt what the other guy is doing as well by logging in? Not that this is using credits 😛

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:21 PM

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creds = credentials

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If the 2nd is legit, the player knows he's already in, and the 2nd just should be told, "Account already in use" and kicked. If the 2nd is not legit, the 1st isn't bothered, and if the 2nd is from a different network than the 1st, admin should probably be alerted.

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:25 PM

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Blizzard logs you out if someone else is using the account, same with music players like spotify, deezer. (at least gives the one that clicked played last to get music)

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:26 PM

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Blizzard logs you out if someone else is using the account

That's what I'm describing

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:26 PM

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Yeah, it logs the active user out

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The new user gets logged in

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:26 PM

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eww

stray scroll Sep 27, 2019, 2:26 PM

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I think overall it's better user experience if something unpredicted happens to a server that causes the client to look like he's logged in, so he can't get in.

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 2:26 PM

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To each their own...wouldn't be my choice 🙂

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That last bit is what the heartbeat is for: to unblock the account if it's gone dead without notifying the login server

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maybe that ping is only fired if a 2nd login occurs, but if you're going to just kick the 1st in favor of the 2nd, then you're assuming the 1st is always a dead client.

burnt hinge Sep 27, 2019, 8:49 PM

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+1 to logging out old user, much better imo

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too many times i've not been able to log in because i had to wait some absurdly long time for the old connection in some game to log out

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or even worse, you disconnect and try to reconnect "cant log in, user already logged in" on the same machine

gray pond Sep 27, 2019, 8:57 PM

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I hear ya, but that's a solvable problem on the server side to get dead clients out of the system expeditiously. Killing the old with the new is a work around.

burnt hinge Sep 27, 2019, 9:01 PM

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in what situation would you not want to log out the old user? what benefit do you gain from denying a log in?

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in the blizzard situation, you're logged out and it displays a warning "if you dont understand why you were logged out, your account is probably compromised" - which is true, if you didn't intend to be logged out you need to know your account has been compromised

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but if you did intend, it's great. i can be playing wow on my desktop, then gf calls me into another room so i pickup my laptop and just log in there. don't need to get up again to go log out first at the old machine

mellow beacon Sep 27, 2019, 11:33 PM

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@stray scroll you can go that way

quaint pecan Sep 28, 2019, 1:39 PM

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Hi - I'm having an issue connecting using my external IP. I have correctly portforwarded and when using https://canyouseeme.org it says success when I have a Terraria server open on the port I use. However, when using Unity (LiteNetLib), this port refuses to open and canyouseeme times out. (All other servers being closed).

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~~It works fine when using 127.0.0.1 or my local IP address~~

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Solved; combination of two things:

Open port checkers use TCP to check, LiteNetLib is UDP
The editor most likely blocks external connections; it works when using a server build outside of it

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Follow up question:
How do you usually test networking related elements? Do I have to build every time so I can open multiple clients?

weak plinth Sep 29, 2019, 2:05 PM

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I'm using LiteNetLib4Mirror and I'm getting this error when I try to use uPnP to start my server

uPnP failed. Error 718: Conflict in mapping entry

How do I fix this?

ripe maple Sep 29, 2019, 4:24 PM

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Hello, i have a problem using PUN 2 : joining random room suddenly stopped matching existing rooms; i have created rooms but joining room gives the error: no match found

jade glacier Sep 29, 2019, 4:34 PM

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Maybe related, but the editor often finds a different region

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so best during testing in settings to hard code eu or us for region @ripe maple

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That may not be your issue, but it comes up super often

ripe maple Sep 29, 2019, 4:51 PM

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and how could i do that please @jade glacier ? ( bc i tried PhotonNetwork.ConnectToRegion("eu");) but it looks llike it doesnt works

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OMG !!!!

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i added eu to the photon servers setting and it worked !!

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i love you so much thanks a lot

jade glacier Sep 29, 2019, 5:10 PM

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np

dusky storm Sep 30, 2019, 9:17 AM

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@weak plinth probably best to ask in the litenetlib channel in our mirror discord. Petris can help, he developed LiteNetLib4Mirror

weak plinth Sep 30, 2019, 3:00 PM

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@dusky storm I did, nobody answered tho

manic solstice Sep 30, 2019, 5:38 PM

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Asking this on behalf of someone else, anyone have an idea of what this guy in this thread is talking about? https://answers.unity.com/questions/190028/multiplayer-jitter-caused-by-camera.html "set the networking to a low speed (1 hz)" ?

Multiplayer: jitter caused by camera? by smoothing? - Unity Answers

Unity is the ultimate game development platform. Use Unity to build high-quality 3D and 2D games, deploy them across mobile, desktop, VR/AR, consoles or the Web, and connect with loyal and enthusiastic players and customers.

jade glacier Sep 30, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Not going to read it, but most likely is because of mixing Fixed and Update based timings

#

There are about 20 places you can create jitter when networking and dealing with Unity timings.

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@manic solstice

manic solstice Sep 30, 2019, 6:36 PM

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@jade glacier Thats what I initially thought as well, though this one instance is odd in that the jitter can happen on the server's actor simply by switching the server camera and making it follow the clients actor.

jade glacier Sep 30, 2019, 6:38 PM

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3rd person camera has two points and they have to agree on timing segments

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If you eyecam the player object that seems smooth? Or hard parent the cam to the player? Still smooth?

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Without seeing the code I can't even guess where its getting boned up... but jitter is a timing disgreement

manic solstice Sep 30, 2019, 6:39 PM

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yea what ever object the camera is on is smooth, it's the other actor it jitters.

jade glacier Sep 30, 2019, 6:40 PM

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What is moving the cam itself?

manic solstice Sep 30, 2019, 6:40 PM

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This happens in the base RCC Unet project

jade glacier Sep 30, 2019, 6:40 PM

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All of the sample projects fuck it up

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Mirror and UNet have no concepts of proper tick/timing handling

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So people just take wild guesses, and are always disappointed

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If its tracking a rigidbody, that rigidbody will either be autointerpolating, or they should be translating the kinematic rb in update

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Which if the camera attached is smooth, that sounds like it is happening

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What is moving the cam itself?

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Really though, without some code to peak at... this will end up being 100 questions.

manic solstice Sep 30, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Sorry just took a quick look at the code (it's not my project) it's using the Realistic Car Controller camera, which seems to be updated in late update and it's tracking the transform of the target and doing a look at lerp on the rigidbody it's attached to.

jade glacier Sep 30, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Looking at that rb how?

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not rb.position I assume - because that would instantly faceplant