#archived-networking | Official Unity Discord | Page 44

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:23 PM

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any more info on this Set Value method?

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docs or something?

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:24 PM

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He just means make your changes through a method that also sets your dirty flags I believe

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Not an actual PUN built in thing

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you wouldnt want that anyway

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the concept of "dirty" is really on you and your data design

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So don't just change values, change them through a property or a method that also sets your dirty flags accordingly for the change made

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:32 PM

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https://hatebin.com/mpkydwukpj

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ok yeah i'm doing that

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i realize bitshifting would be a cleaner way to pack/unpack bits here but to me this just makes more sense so for now, is this a reasonable appraoch to OnSerializeView

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:33 PM

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I have a writer for that if you want to just use mine

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literally can bitpack right into and out of a byte[]

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:34 PM

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maybe i will here when i'm a little more settled down

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thanks

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for now just trying to slog through the meat of it

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i'll suss out the details later, as long as them bits get packed /unpacked i don't care if theres some extra if()'s in ther efor now

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really just... so frustrated by this right now

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its hard to explain how much pressure i'm under to make this game real, finished, and successful

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:35 PM

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yeah, that's a bad idea

gusty pumice Feb 14, 2019, 2:35 PM

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📎 unknown.png

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:35 PM

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where is that pressure coming from?

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:35 PM

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oh amnod thanks, whoops

gusty pumice Feb 14, 2019, 2:36 PM

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yw

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:36 PM

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emot poverty, desperation

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general hopelessness

gusty pumice Feb 14, 2019, 2:36 PM

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😄

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:36 PM

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yeah, networking is not the place to put your foot into the pool for that @earnest wave

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I'm 2 years into it and only now feel like I am qualified to make a proper game

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:38 PM

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well i've done a bit of multiplayer networking before

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with unity's library, and i wrote client/server for flash games years ago

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:38 PM

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ahh, nm then

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:38 PM

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i just... can't finish anything

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:39 PM

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yeah, that's networking

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 2:39 PM

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my attention span is a real struggle

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it's why i'm so OCD about this stuff

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 2:39 PM

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Main thing is to not drown in the big picture

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you need to be aware of it, but when coding you code VERY small parts at a time

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The goals thing... can't help there. That's just ADD in general

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 3:53 PM

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do i have to make changed data as dirty explicitly with pun somehow?

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the code snip i pasted earlier is working now with reliable on change but only the first time a non master client picks up a stone

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after that, no update.

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i'm using an array of custom data types that I defined and registered and am successfully serializing and deserializing

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 4:59 PM

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nice

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 4:59 PM

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thanks

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i still don't feel really solid about how i'm doing it though

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it just seems like photon is trying really hard to make this easy for me and i'm just making it much harder than it needs to be

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:00 PM

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If you are serializing there is nothing PUN related tracking dirty and such... you just are being asked by OnSerialize .. "Do you have anything to say?"

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That's the case with any HLAPI for networking

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they do a lot of stuff for you, but it does require you to do it the way they wrote it

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:02 PM

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do i have to explicitly mark my arrays as dirty for pun to actually call onserializeview on the non master clients/
?

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because with reliable on change only the first change is going through

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:02 PM

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I don't believe it has any way of knowing, unless your data is derived from some class or something they provide (not aware of any)

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Pun will call onserializeview on a regular schedule of some kind, forget what that timing is based on

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Its a unified method isn't it? One method for both read and write?

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It should only call with isWriting being true when the photonview has authority though, pretty sure

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On dumb clients it is a callback for when that photonview has an event right?

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:07 PM

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on clients it just calls when it feels like calling i guess

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i can't make sense of it

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yes it's unified

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it's only isWriting on the masterclient for this scene-owned object i'm trying to serialize

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:09 PM

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its a callback, so it will get called on clients when it has something

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The timing is in FixedUpdate, that is when the incoming message queue gets dispatched (in PUN2)

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in PUN1 it was in Update()

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There is a Photon singleton called PhotonHandler I think that manages that stuff

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Its a weird callback, because it has two sources

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If it has authority, the source is the send rate timer

If its not the authority, its the callback for incoming messages

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:14 PM

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i don't think the timing is the issue, it's whether it happens at all

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theres some sort of flag in the mix I think, 'hasChanged' or something like that

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:14 PM

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If its not happening, then likely the message is not getting generated

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Are you debugging your OnSerialize write to make sure its actually writing something there?

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM

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yes it's definitely writing

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if i change it to Unreliable it works

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so for now, that's what i'm doing... but... packet loss

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM

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Ahh, it might be doing a delta compare to the objects (ick)

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM

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little worried about that especially since its a mobile game

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they're all instances of a class, maybe it expects new instances in order to trigger that update?

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i dunno

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM

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try changing something minor, like at a int counter to the front of the write? So you know its changing

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If its not sending, it may be doing a rough delta check, and your data isn't changing

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:16 PM

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yah it only sends if something changed anyways

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right now its just an int that changes from 1 to some weird negative number (negative stone-holder viewID)

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:16 PM

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Not sure then, if its having your write in OnSerialize... I would expect that to send. But again - haven't used it much.

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I don't like wondering what its doing, I just to right to raise event myself to avoid any of this wondering

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:22 PM

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yeah still havent ruled that out

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just want to really get a headlock on this serializeview

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so if i choose not to use it, it's not for a lack of ability to, it was a deliberate decision

indigo current Feb 14, 2019, 5:24 PM

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you still here? 😛

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also packet loss is normal, very very normal.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Sounds like he is getting nothing past the first,which seems a bit much to be pl

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PUN does pass everything as objects, so it might be seeing that its the same reference and calling that the same yeah @earnest wave

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:27 PM

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hmm

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yes still here

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ok so if i send an array of custom classes as Unreliable, they send, each time i trigger a new send. Not sure they always receive but apparently they usually do

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if i send as Reliable, they send the first time and thats it

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i'd prefer not to create new instances of those classes every time i want an update that seems lol.

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and yes multiple tests always same result, first is consistent then never again

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so i'm doing something wrong.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:29 PM

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Yeah, that clearly sounds like its check for delta is coming up with the conclusion its the same

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so sending the same ref with changes is no good

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:29 PM

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but, good news is my custom class serialization / deserialization / registration with Photon is all working a champ

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:30 PM

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You will find PUN as a garbage collection generating machine.... another reason I avoided all of this

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with byte[] you can send partials in a wrapper

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However, that technique may work for you if you are writing to a byte[] ?

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(hint... you should be serializing to a byte[])

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{
    int bytepos = (bitposition + 7) >> 3;
    System.ArraySegment<byte> byteseg = new System.ArraySegment<byte>(buffer, 0, bytepos);

    optsTarget.TargetActors[0] = connId;

    PhotonNetwork.NetworkingClient.OpRaiseEvent((asServer ? SVR_TO_CLIENT : CLIENT_TO_SVR), byteseg, optsTarget, sendOpts);

    if (!Time.inFixedTimeStep)
        PhotonNetwork.NetworkingClient.LoadBalancingPeer.SendOutgoingCommands(); //.Service();

}```

My PUN2 send code

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System.ArraySegment<byte> is pretty critical to keeping it from spewing out garbage

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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yeah i serialize to byte and if needed i could just serialize the entire array of custom classes to a big long byte stream i'm just trying to keep it all as HL as possible

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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If you are writing to byte you need to use System.ArraySegment<byte> anyway

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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yah using a lot of arraysegments in my deserialize now

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sec i'll paste code

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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And those are triggering the dirty? Odd

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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[System.Serializable]
public class StatusStone
{
    public int status;
    public Vector3 location;

    public StatusStone()
    {

    }

    public static object Deserialize(byte[] data)
    {
        var result = new StatusStone();

        int offset = 0;
        int nibble = 0;

        nibble = sizeof(int);
        result.status = UtilitySerialize.BytesToInt(new ArraySegment<byte>(data, offset, nibble).Array);
        offset += nibble;

        nibble = 12;
        result.location = UtilitySerialize.BytesToVector3(new ArraySegment<byte>(data, offset, nibble).Array);
        offset += nibble;

        return result;
    }

    public static byte[] Serialize(object customType)
    {
        var c = (StatusStone)customType;
        List<byte> obytes = new List<byte>();

        obytes.AddRange(UtilitySerialize.IntToBytes(c.status));
        obytes.AddRange(UtilitySerialize.Vector3ToBytes(c.location));

        return obytes.ToArray();
    }
}

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:33 PM

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You are serializing to them as well right?

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:34 PM

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public class UtilitySerialize
{
    public static byte[] IntToBytes(int inVal)
    {
        return BitConverter.GetBytes(inVal);
    }

    public static int BytesToInt(byte[] inVal)
    {
        return BitConverter.ToInt32(inVal, 0);
    }

    public static byte[] Vector3ToBytes(Vector3 inVal)
    {
        byte[] oBytes = new byte[12];

        Buffer.BlockCopy(oBytes, 0, BitConverter.GetBytes(inVal.x), 0, 4);
        Buffer.BlockCopy(oBytes, 4, BitConverter.GetBytes(inVal.y), 0, 4);
        Buffer.BlockCopy(oBytes, 8, BitConverter.GetBytes(inVal.z), 0, 4);

        return oBytes;
    }

    public static Vector3 BytesToVector3(byte[] inVal)
    {
        Vector3 oVec = Vector3.zero;
        oVec.x = BitConverter.ToSingle(inVal, 0);
        oVec.y = BitConverter.ToSingle(inVal, 4);
        oVec.z = BitConverter.ToSingle(inVal, 8);

        return oVec;
    }
}

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by triggering the dirty i'm not sure what you mean

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btw there's a lot of room for optimization here i'm just trying to keep it readable for now

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:34 PM

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I mean sending something that PUN Reliable sees as different than the previous send

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:35 PM

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sec i'll paste the serialize

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:35 PM

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I suspect its just running a hashcode on the objects you feed it

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:35 PM

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woops too long for discord, pastebin sec

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https://hatebin.com/djmiksjhvh

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:37 PM

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    {
        var c = (StatusStone)customType;
        List<byte> obytes = new List<byte>();

        obytes.AddRange(UtilitySerialize.IntToBytes(c.status));
        obytes.AddRange(UtilitySerialize.Vector3ToBytes(c.location));

        return obytes.ToArray();
    }```  I don't see that using ArraySegment

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:37 PM

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deserialize is using arraysegment

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serialize just adds them into the list

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:38 PM

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I don't fully follow what you are doing, but it looks like you might be doing some pointless stuff there

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:38 PM

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seems pretty certain

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story of my life.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:38 PM

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Why the object uses and just just straight up byte[] everywhere?

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:39 PM

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feel free to change it up how you would do it and i'll try it out

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:39 PM

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I can't poke around without it being in VS.. .but the use of object anywhere rather than byte[] seems bit odd

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:39 PM

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i'm not married at all to the serialize / deserialize its just what is basically functional at this point

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:39 PM

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I would have a reusable byte[].... clear it and write to it... then ArraySegment it off to OnSerializeView

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Just makes it hard at a glance to tell what the object is and where it would be coming from

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normal flow is pretty basic for this stuff... serialize to a byte[] ... hand that to the transport.... get a byte[] back... hand that to the various things that need to read it

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If you turn your byte[] into a ArraySegment and give that to PUN, it will come out the receiving end as a byte[]

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Other side note... doesn't have to be byte[] most likely for PUN a ulong[] would work I suspect. I just use byte[] so my libraries work with all transports

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:43 PM

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i've just been trying to keep to the PUN docs/samples as much as possible

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they used byte[] in/out so thats what i went with

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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I would really avoid that for anything you want to optimize

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ahh, the byte thing is fine, thats standard

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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dont care about optimization at this point just want it working and reliable

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

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just ulong[] offers faster bitpacking and such

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yeah, byte[] is the way to go then

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however, that reliable method with its automatic whatever for detecting changes seems like more hassle than help

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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there will come a day when its all working and we can sit down and tear it to pieces

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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I would really just raise your own events

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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i'm compartmentalizing all the bottlenecks so it should be easy to address them one at a time

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:45 PM

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I think that reliable delta option is meant for beginners, not for advanced stuff

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if you send reliable events, you can do your own delta check

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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how did i leapfrog from 'knows nothing' to 'advanced' 🤔

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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You are aren't just RPCing structs and values

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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i see

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:46 PM

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I suspect you are trying to serialize objects, and they are hashcoding out as unchanged

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Just guessing, really you can find out for sure by just following the code and see what it is checking

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

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maybe i need to use unity's internal 'mark as dirty' mechanism?

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:47 PM

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Not even sure how that would interact, but I would avoid all of that

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your data set is going to need you to manhandle that anyway

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

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i think the unity mark as dirty is an Editor thing anyways

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:48 PM

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Later down the line you are going to want to decide how to fragment the sends, and what to repeat and what not to repeat

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yeah, its not really related

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regardless.. I would just use a mechanism that sends every time - and add code later for culling those sends

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Or, dig a bit and see what the check is in Photon

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it should be uncompiled C#

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 5:49 PM

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yah for now that's the plan, if there's packet loss it'll get fixed up the next time someone triggers an update

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and all game referee actions are conducted by the master client anyways so it's not like loss of sync means someone can pick up a stone twice etc

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 5:50 PM

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Eventual consistency works for most things, its my preference when I can avoid reliable

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I generally focus my energy on making things self correcting

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rather than dealing with order of execution and events nightmares

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 7:06 PM

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Hey! Quick question (hopefully). Can someone confirm or correct me when I say that I though the maximum payload size one could use with the new transport package is 1466 bytes?
(That is 1470 - 4 bytes, due to the NetworkConnection header)

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 7:16 PM

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Haven't touched it, though if you can't find documentation to confirm it you could try sending it a byte more than that and see what happens

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 7:25 PM

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I already had the error. Fixed it by setting my own size limit 100 bytes lower, than what I thought I needed, so 1366. Tried 1462 at first but that also failed.
The UdpCHeader struct from the transport package looks like this:

[StructLayout(LayoutKind.Explicit)]
public unsafe struct UdpCHeader
{
    public const int Length = 4;
    [FieldOffset(0)] public fixed byte Data[Length];
    [FieldOffset(0)] public byte Type;
    [FieldOffset(1)] public byte Flags;
    [FieldOffset(2)] public ushort SessionToken;
}

Basically I'm just wondering if it's my own code that's wrong or if I've missed something in the package.

knotty dust Feb 14, 2019, 7:29 PM

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Hi there 😄 is there some PUN expert here ? :p I'm currently creating a FPS and I was wondering how to manage the end of a round. I want to "reset" the Scene,reset the score and have all the player RE-instantiate.. is there a PhotonMethod for that? Thanks by advance.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 7:33 PM

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There are pun users here

knotty dust Feb 14, 2019, 7:37 PM

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It's what I asked? 😃

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I am 😃 but I need some advices .

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 7:58 PM

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"experts" no clue about that

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@stable cairn those field offsets seem a bit whack - not what you are asking though

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nm, I see what they have going on there

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I dont see any length info restrictions in that. the only length ref is just so that the unsafe fixed is sized the same as the whole struct

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But it definitely consumes 4 bytes, if that is the question

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:12 PM

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Yeah that Header is what I have so far assumed to be all of the overhead added by their Transport package. But actually when I think about it the errors I'm getting are on the client, so I'm getting some data, seems to be some buffer in WinSock not having capacity for the UDP MTU, would've expected those to match the MTU

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:13 PM

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I don't know what layer this is, and if it includes any of the actual actual low level buffer stuff for UDP. I really don't ever get that deep into the transports sorry 😦

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1462 is a very odd size

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so that seems like its got extra padding for something

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I would expect the limits to be nice even numbers

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:16 PM

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1470 is the MTU for UDP, unity's transport layer is supposed to use 4 of those. I just gave 4 extra to check if it could be some for loop going slightly too far. But assuming my packet was maxed at all times, the limit must in reality be between 1364 and 1462 based on my understanding so far. It could also be lower than 1364 if my packet wasn't maxed when it worked.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:16 PM

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Ahh, nm then - you know way more about this than I do

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Its all C# code no? Or is some of that compiled?

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How far can you dig down to see whats going into that packet?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:20 PM

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It's C#. The transport package is from unity's open-source multiplayer repository. I'm working strictly with byte arrays though. I added some size checks right before I give it over to unity's network driver, so I was expecting the exact same data on the other end, but I get internal buffer exceptions before then, and they seem to be part of WinSock which I suppose is what the transport package is using, and which I know very little about. I don't have the error message currently, as I did a workaround, but when googling I got some stuff, but no clear answers.

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And the part of code that throws the error is pretty deep in some unsafe pointer stuff with a buffer that I didn't immediately find the construction of.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:21 PM

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yeah, I'm more out of my depth there than you. I literally never go deeper than handing my byte[] to whatever net transport I am using

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:21 PM

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But I remember the error code being 10040, which I believe is specific to winsock, or at least handled by it.

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Thanks for trying at least 😉 Here's the error, it also mentions the 1470 bytes.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/225004/wsaemsgsize-error-10040-in-winsock-2-0

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:23 PM

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It may need some space for winsock junk yeah.... wish I had a clue about any of this 😃

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Yeah it's pretty low level, but I think it would be nice to get it right the first time to avoid having to revisit this code part for this kind of stuff.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:24 PM

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I assume you would just be picking a byte count for your split point for your own writer?

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So seems like whatever you code for overflow... will just need that one constant to be changed?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Yeah, unless it's my own code that is flawed

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:30 PM

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I mean, you are passing it a byte[] with a size?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:31 PM

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Well currently I'm not splitting at arbitrary points because I wanna receive whole objects

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:31 PM

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What's the write method though to the transport? I assume it is pretty simpllistic?

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like Transport.buffer.Write(myByteArray, lengthInt); kind of thing?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Unity uses a DataStreamWriter, so it's more like

writer.Write(data);
_networkConnection.Send(_networkDriver, writer);

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:33 PM

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hmm... what is 'data' ?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:34 PM

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whatever I want it to be, but in my case that's the byte[] I wanna send. And right before that I would check if it's more than my limit.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:34 PM

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is it a specific overload for byte[] ? or is it taking object?

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And why no length info??

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I hope it has a write method that lets you write only the used parts of your byte?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:35 PM

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Yeah it takes in byte[] in it's overload. The DataStreamWriter seems to also be written by Unity as part of the transport package.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:36 PM

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So if you send it a byte[1024] but you only wrote to like 500.... how do you send that to the transport with their methods?

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:38 PM

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I think the remaining 524 would have default byte values upon initializing the array. So unless I specifically truncated unused bytes it should be valid values. Also, the length of the array should have triggered my failsafe if it was greater than my limit, even if I only used 500

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:38 PM

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hmm, that doesn't seem right.

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A byte[] write should really offer a length. Making you right size it = garbage generation. There would be no way for it to know that all those zeros are useless

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which cs file is the writer in?

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can look at the git now

earnest wave Feb 14, 2019, 8:41 PM

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@knotty dust either raiseevent or rpc i guess

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probably raise event

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:41 PM

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dataWriter.Write(1234); derfug

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nm, thats just sample code

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{
    if (length < 0)
        length = value.Length;

    fixed (byte* p = value)
    {
        WriteBytes(p, length);
    }
}``` They have nonalloc byte[] writes

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public int Capacity you should be able to check that to see what the total size of the buffer is

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and Length to see how much is currently written to

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:49 PM

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This is from the "DataStream.cs" file

/// <summary>
/// Copy byte array into the writers data buffer, up to the
/// given length or the complete size if no length (or -1) is given.
/// </summary>
/// <param name="value">Source byte array</param>
/// <param name="length">Length to copy, omit this to copy all the byte array</param>
public void Write(byte[] value, int length = -1)
{
    if (length < 0)
        length = value.Length;
    
    fixed (byte* p = value)
    {
        WriteBytes(p, length);
    }
}

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:50 PM

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yeah, just pasted that same code LOL

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:50 PM

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Oh xD

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:50 PM

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That's the one you want to use

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:50 PM

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I'm using that

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:50 PM

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oh, so you are sending the length

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it looked like you werent giving it your length int

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If you check the Length and Capacity of the buffer do they look like what you expected

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:56 PM

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So if I get it right, the WriteBytes method adds bytes to describe the length? Is the capacity size also added? If the only thing added is the int describing the data length, then it shouldn't have failed when I gave my limit 4 extra bytes to go on :S But at least I now have something to go on 😃 Thanks

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:56 PM

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I would expect if its like the old UNET and others

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Let me look at the git

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

Here's the method used to add bytes to the buffer:

        public void WriteBytes(byte* data, int bytes)
        {
#if ENABLE_UNITY_COLLECTIONS_CHECKS
            AtomicSafetyHandle.CheckWriteAndThrow(m_Safety);
            if (m_Data->length + bytes > m_Data->capacity)
                throw new System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException();
#endif
            UnsafeUtility.MemCpy(m_Data->buffer + m_Data->length, data, bytes);
            m_Data->length += bytes;
        }

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

wish I was less of a C# nubbin, because I never use ->

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 8:58 PM

#

Me neither, to spoiled with all the C# lately. Didn't do enough unsafe coding yet. I do however feel like that will happen sooner rather than later now.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 8:58 PM

#

I think its just adding the bytes of that write to the total count

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 9:00 PM

#

Yeah, but I'm only calling the write once, so that's why I'm expecting it to only add the 4 bytes for the length of the bytes

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 9:00 PM

#

You can check the length value before and after your write and see if it all adds up

#

debug Length and Capacity at each step

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 9:01 PM

#

Yeah I'll have to do some research and some debugging. This class has some documentation too that may help.

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 9:01 PM

#

You aren't exceeding that writer though, that would give a different error

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

But I'll look at it once I have a context where it would fail. Yeah as far as I know I'm getting all the data, so nothing from the sending side is failing here. Error happens on the receiving end, so perhaps I'm accidentally triggering IP segmentations, thus getting a combined UDP package bigger than the MTU

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 9:06 PM

#

hmm, yeah tricky to debug that when it happens in the ether

jade glacier Feb 14, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

-> is basically . in unsafe in this context

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 9:24 PM

#

Yeah I've done a little C++, but that was 10 years ago.

stable cairn Feb 14, 2019, 11:44 PM

#

In case anyone encounters the same issue - Here's the detail I missed in com.unity.transport's code:

/// <summary>
/// Default NetworkParameter Constants.
/// </summary>
public struct NetworkParameterConstants
{
    /// <summary>The default size of the event queue.</summary>
    public const int InitialEventQueueSize = 100;
    public const int InvalidConnectionId = -1;

    /// <summary>
    /// The default size of the DataStreamWriter. This value can be overridden using the <see cref="NetworkConfigParameter"/>.
    /// </summary>
    public const int DriverDataStreamSize = 64 * 1024;
    /// <summary>The default connection timeout value. This value can be overridden using the <see cref="NetworkConfigParameter"/></summary>
    public const int ConnectTimeoutMS = 1000;
    /// <summary>The default max connection attempts value. This value can be overridden using the <see cref="NetworkConfigParameter"/></summary>
    public const int MaxConnectAttempts = 60;
    /// <summary>The default disconnect timeout attempts value. This value can be overridden using the <see cref="NetworkConfigParameter"/></summary>
    public const int DisconnectTimeoutMS = 30 * 1000;

    public const int MTU = 1400;
}

In short, the default MTU value set when using default NetworkParams to initiate the BasicNetworkDriver is set to 1400.

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:13 AM

#

Great, sounds like you solved it @stable cairn

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 8:15 AM

#

@stable cairn and what is an option? to extend MTU?

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:19 AM

#

I assume they picked 1400 as a safe value for some reason

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_transmission_unit

It probably is just a number below the cases they anticipate

Maximum transmission unit

In computer networking, the maximum transmission unit (MTU) is the size of the largest protocol data unit (PDU) that can be communicated in a single network layer transaction. The MTU relates to, but is not identical to the maximum frame size that can be transported on the da...

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 8:20 AM

#

Yeah, that's a very common thing to do

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:21 AM

#

Unless you really plan to overstuff your packets, probably best to leave it there

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 8:21 AM

#

But you can insert custom NetworkParameters to the NetworkDriver when initiating it. I think the MTU may be changed that way, although I'm not sure. At least most of those can be overridden.

#

Then again, since the transport package is open-sourced I could change it if I wanted to, but I'm content enough just understanding how it works. I don't have a current urgency to maximize my networking capacity.

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 8:35 AM

#

hm. so if you want to make it stable i think a good solution is to send fixed sized packets. like 1kb. there are several reasons for it:

you will have "extra" space below mtu for custom headers to define what kind of data you're delivering and some extras
you will get a stable fixed load over network
also in this case you'll be able to use fixed sized 1kb buffer for transported data, so it'll be easy to fit chunks in it before sent (like using offsets and so)
the 2nd also is an ability to batch small packets that need to be sent between sendrate steps, it will reduce net load by using single UDP header per several packets (26 bytes)
i've did this several years ago for webplayer and it works pretty good in production

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:35 AM

#

I would def not do that

#

99% of my networking work is in trimming every bit out of packets

#

sticking a bunch of padding back on them seems a bit... counter to that?

#

I can see fixed being fine in a game where the states are always the same size but generally the server outgoing stream would get pretty expensive wasting that much data

#

All modern networking you are buffering updates on the clients and server, and they will absorb any jitter anyway

#

Not saying it wouldn't work for some cases, just that as a general practice that seems like a bad idea

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 8:46 AM

#

the main concern is to keep packet size under MTU and have a fixed sized buffer below it's value . you don't need to send trailing zeroes actually, in any way you know actual size of data before sending and can also put it in a custom packet header

#

then read on other size

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

you just use the Write(yourByteArray, length) call for that yeah

#

but that would be sending variable sizes, which I would recommend

#

The transport adds the header and you just write to it with a standard serialization write method, he was just hitting a weird arbitrary number or bytes written that couldn't get through

#

@stable cairn That's a bit odd that the writer let you write past 1400, and that it isn't aware of the that const?

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 8:51 AM

#

it'll be weird if writer will NOT let you to write data bigger than MTU

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 8:52 AM

#

yeah, that was why it was strange... he would write and send it, and it would break on the receiving end

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 8:54 AM

#

as i see he sends a packet size

#

2k for example, and got only 1400 cause packet were fragmented, and then tried to read 2k

#

EOF (end of stream actually)

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

@untold plume Yeah I got errorcode 10040 from WinSock on the clientside, which was something about a buffer not having capacity for the data, but it was within the internals of com.unity.transport. Either way when you mention "extra space" for custom headers etc, that's handled on a higher layer in my model. So the number I was looking for is going to be the upper limit before the data must either be segmented or reduced in size, with all necessary custom data included in that number. The perfectionist in me would like to not limit the system out of lack of knowledge and guesswork basically.

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:09 AM

#

@stable cairn https://gafferongames.com/post/sending_large_blocks_of_data/

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:11 AM

#

I think that is mostly about rolling your own RUDP for fragmented packets

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:12 AM

#

RUDP is next article 😃

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 9:12 AM

#

Thanks! This is going to help future me a lot 😉

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:12 AM

#

Next article is relaible order not really RUDP

#

fragments don't need to be ordered

#

but for what the article is talking about its for when they have to get through

#

rather than usual UDP... fire and forget

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 9:13 AM

#

I'll need all of the above unless Unity implements them as part of transport

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:13 AM

#

does the MP transport not have a reliable channel opt?

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:13 AM

#

gafferongames is a good point to start as for me

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:14 AM

#

yeah, gaffer is great

#

just saying that that article is a slightly different topic

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:14 AM

#

okay

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:14 AM

#

all great stuff though, I always give his page as a reference to others

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 9:14 AM

#

The new transport package is very barebone currently, I don't think it has anything. Well it does do multiple attempts at establishing connections, but for data I don't think it cares

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:15 AM

#

hmm, I would expect them to add some RUDP handling if its not there already

#

since all of the basic libs do that

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:15 AM

#

and i would expect for specs

#

_>

#

i need it in golang 😄

jade glacier Feb 15, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

If it isnt going to, I would just stick with like a LiteNetLib in the meantime

untold plume Feb 15, 2019, 9:16 AM

#

LiteNetLib is pretty good

vital hawk Feb 15, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

@stray scroll no idea on your issue but you can put your links like <https://thing> and it will not fill half the screen with the link previews 😃

stray scroll Feb 15, 2019, 5:12 PM

#

Will think of that to the next time^^

vital hawk Feb 15, 2019, 5:13 PM

#

it's no big deal, just thought to mention it (you can also edit the original message, add those <> and it will remove the previews)

stray scroll Feb 15, 2019, 5:16 PM

#

Yeah, I just realized I might've phrased it bad anyways : )

#

So could anyone help me understand what the meaning of

            if (!m_Connections[i].IsCreated)
                Assert.IsTrue(true);

Means in context, and what it does here?
https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/com.unity.transport/Documentation/samples/serverbehaviour.cs.md
https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/blob/master/com.unity.transport/Documentation/samples/jobifiedserverbehaviour.cs.md

stable cairn Feb 15, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

Well, Assert.IsTrue(true) won't do anything I believe, seems more like a placeholder to be replaced with proper handling. The if check is just checking if the connection hasn't been established properly, so I would imagine that you'd want to skip checking events for it? Perhaps using a continue instead of the asser... I may have missed something.

#

Assert is a special kind of failsafe check that will give you error prints if the assertions give unexpected values, and if I understand correctly they will be skipped during compiling, so it's like a good way to print things that go wrong without worrying that your end users will see all the errors meant for dev's eyes only.

Someone correct.me if I'm wrong. But In the example the Assert is "making sure that true is true".

stray scroll Feb 15, 2019, 6:28 PM

#

Hmm, that's what I thought as well. : ) Thanks anyway.

sly shard Feb 15, 2019, 10:18 PM

#

Hello community, I'm currently writing a tutorial about how making network games using DarkRift2. Take a look on my last article here : http://materiagame.com/2019/02/15/darkrift-2-tutorial-for-unity-3d-part-8-darkrift-2-messages-concepts

MateriaGame

TheUncas21

DarkRift 2 Tutorial for Unity 3D – Part 8 – DarkRift 2 Message...

This DarkRift2 tutorial explains you clearly how a message is built. You can either know how to send and receive message through network.

#

Feel free to ask me questions if you need some help

sand lotus Feb 16, 2019, 9:29 AM

#

Hey @sly shard why did you decide to use TCP for reliablity and not RUDP with difirent forms of reliablity, for instance out of order but reliable etc?

#

woulden't that be much better

sly shard Feb 16, 2019, 10:11 AM

#

@sand lotus I'm not the développer of the library

sand lotus Feb 16, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

okay.

#

Darkrift also has no sequencing and is open for replay attacks

#

Personally I would recomend https://github.com/nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

GitHub

nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

Reliable UDP networking library extended for the .NET environment - nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

#

it is full UDP based

stray scroll Feb 16, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

I think DarkRift is supposed to be an alternative if you want to get your hands dirty and as barebone as it gets to have a minimal overhead, so its basically just connection wrapped sockets?

sand lotus Feb 16, 2019, 11:22 AM

#

but it performs worse than enet

stray scroll Feb 16, 2019, 1:36 PM

#

Seems like it has a higher CPU cost at a lower Bandwidth
https://github.com/nxrighthere/BenchmarkNet/wiki/Benchmark-Results

sand lotus Feb 16, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

It has lower bandwith because it includes no sequencing

stray scroll Feb 16, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

Yeah, I fully understand its not a fair comparison x) Would be nice to know what all includes and what not.

sly shard Feb 16, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

Last article available right here for DarkRift2 : http://materiagame.com/2019/02/16/darkrift-2-tutorial-for-unity-3d-part-9-send-spawn-messages-to-clients

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 6:26 AM

#

Any network library recommendations?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:08 AM

#

@barren fractal Several - depends what kind of game you're making.

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:41 AM

#

Give me a rundown on them all

#

I hear Proton

#

and I've attempted to use LiteNetLib at one point, haven't really done any Unity3D work for a while

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:46 AM

#

Unet is Deprecated, Mirror is the replacement. Also there's DarkRift, Forge, MLAPI, and Photon Bolt

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:47 AM

#

Is Mirror the Google Cloud partnership one?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:47 AM

#

no - Unity is a year away from having much to show there, and they're not doing a replacement HLAPI

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

So.. what is Mirror?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

Mirror took UNet, forked it, fixed all the crap, made a bunch of enhancements.

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

Interesting

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

multiple transports, all source

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:48 AM

#

Are all these except photon, open source?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:49 AM

#

has nearly all the same outward facing classes and API as UNet, so it's easy to migrate...there's a migration tool for existing projects, and 3rd party assets built for UNet generally work without too much trouble.

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

I never really touched Unet, when I got interested in making a multiplayer project, Unet was already announced for being depreciated.

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:50 AM

#

DarkRift I think is $100 one time for the source - can't remember

#

don't bet the farm on that factoid - check for y'self on that

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:51 AM

#

Project I have in mind is an Android game that is locally hosted

#

so, someone makes a "lobby" and people connect to it via "ip"

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

Probably all of them can do that

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

So maybe NatPunchThrough

#

I'm not sure about Photon

#

Don't they charge CCU?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:53 AM

#

OpenNAT

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:54 AM

#

OpenNAT? Is that a library or feature?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:54 AM

#

open source NAT library on GitHub

#

and yes - anything with Photon has a CCU $$

#

It's probably easier to use a service like GameLift, Steam or some such to get you past the NAT / Relay issue

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:57 AM

#

Will I be able to do Peer to Peer with Mirror? Such as LAN, or will it connect to some external server?

#

Doesn't Photon have an external server that forwards users to be peer to peer

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:57 AM

#

the time and effort you'll spend making and supporting your own will be worse than some nominal fee to a service

#

they do

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 7:58 AM

#

Relay's

#

So they all have relays?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 7:59 AM

#

NAT isn't 100% assured to work, especially with mobile, so you'll end up relaying as a fallback

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 8:00 AM

#

What about LAN only?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 8:00 AM

#

sure that'll work

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 8:00 AM

#

Will it still force a relay?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 8:00 AM

#

make a server on a PC and have all the phones connect to it

#

not if they're on the LAN wifi

#

it's the cellular that is flakey

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 8:01 AM

#

The game is more of a party game, so it could work with LAN.

#

It's a "spyfall" like game

#

What about options for dedicated servers like if I did something with AWS / Azure / GCP?

gray pond Feb 17, 2019, 8:04 AM

#

That's what all of these solutions are really built for

#

They can be used for small party games, but they're designed to be headless servers on a VPS

#

Give Mirror a look https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321

Mirror - Asset Store

Mirror is a high level Networking API for Unity, built on top of the low level Telepathy library.
( Forum )
( Chat )

Mirror is built and tested for MMO Scale Networking by the developers of uMMORPG , uSurvival and Cubica .

Mirror is optimized for ease ...

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 8:05 AM

#

So far Mirror is sounding the most interesting to me

vernal remnant Feb 17, 2019, 8:19 AM

#

photon has a 100 ccu free license

#

anything more and requires money

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 8:19 AM

#

I thought it was 20 ccu

#

and I don't want to use relay services

vernal remnant Feb 17, 2019, 8:21 AM

#

I think pun2 was 100 and pun was 20

sand lotus Feb 17, 2019, 10:05 AM

#

The question is really if you want to write your own higher level parts

#

or you want to rely on some middleware

#

the lower level stuff, the transport

#

there are plenty of options around

#

that take care of reliable UDP for instance

#

their free, their opensource, they work well

#

if you need high level API stuff you can look at mirror

#

but make sure to switch our their default TCP transport, its horseshit

#

not because its TCP, but because of how that is implemented

#

anyway mirror is basically just the unity HLAPI and it's having some features removed and a bunch of bug fixes

#

if the HLAPI/mirror is too high level and too generic for your project you can also look at the MLAPI which is on github too

#

or you can just roll your own higher level code which what most people are doing

#

if you are unable to roll your own things you can choose to go for photon or something, there is also smartfoxserver and I believe partialOS

#

but you will have to take their expensive CCU prices

vernal remnant Feb 17, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

SpatialOS not partialOS

sand lotus Feb 17, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

right.

vernal remnant Feb 17, 2019, 11:33 AM

#

You are allowed small deployments for testing, anything more you need a quote; based on multiple deployments or amount of users

sand lotus Feb 17, 2019, 11:33 AM

#

yeah that sounds scary

#

no in front-prices

#

so they can ask anything really

barren fractal Feb 17, 2019, 9:28 PM

#

I don't want to use anything CCU related

#

I think Mirror is the best High level I've been browsing, especially because I have no experience in networking

#

Several months ago I was suggested LiteNetLib but it feels like I have to reverse engineer that library to just use it.

slow bay Feb 18, 2019, 8:36 PM

#

I'm working on a legacy project that is using unity HLAPI. We have held objects that become parented to the player object. Anyone know if there's a callback method I can use to deparent the object when a player disconnects, before the server destroys the player object?

gray pond Feb 18, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

@slow bay See if you have OnServerDisconnect available

indigo current Feb 19, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

@barren fractal Forge is an option too

barren fractal Feb 19, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

I was looking into the 3

#

Mirror seems to be the most active

indigo current Feb 19, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

interestingly enough I dont remember Mirror being one of the big hitters when I last did networking

#

it looks new.

#

[SyncVar]s and SyncLists are used to automatically synchronize state.

#

that looks nice

#

Seems to be pretty to the point if you can manage your own matchmaking.

quiet apex Feb 19, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

//f

barren fractal Feb 20, 2019, 12:55 AM

#

I just need to start finishing projects.

sand lotus Feb 20, 2019, 8:39 AM

#

mirror is just a fork of HLAPI from unity

#

they removed some things, fixed some other

gilded marsh Feb 21, 2019, 2:33 PM

#

So I'm working on a game and I want to use steams p2p stuff, I have Facepunch.Steamworks which let's me create lobbies and send p2p data but I don't know the best way to seralize and send it

serene hornet Feb 21, 2019, 2:40 PM

#

Bit pack into a byte stream and send that?

jade glacier Feb 21, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

That's the end of the line for most networking... if you have access to the byte[] stream... you serialize to and from that no matter the transport.

#

https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/transform-crusher-free-version-117313 If that part of serialization you are asking about, I have a free asset you are welcome to use for bitpacking. It has a byte[] extension class in it with a bunch of writer/readers. @serene hornet

serene hornet Feb 21, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

I'd say your package would work too.

The basic concept would be BitConverter.GetBytes(i)
just take whatever you want, break it into components, like position x as either a float or an int, get the bytes for that, and send the bytes, then do the opposite on the other side. Thus the basic concepts of how to do networking in any instance

jade glacier Feb 21, 2019, 3:29 PM

#

Yup, what you do in side of the serialize desrialize methods is totally up to how nutty you want to get with packing. You mentioned bitpacking (as opposed to bytepacking) so as just offering up my bitpackers if he wants to avoid getting his hands dirty in bitshifting.

#

Or just keep everything in even bytes. Not nearly as compressed but fine for development

barren fractal Feb 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

#

@paper stone I tried using LiteNetLib but it feels like I need to reverse engineer it to know how to use it.

paper stone Feb 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

#

Well - I'm using it only for connection + data transfer using 3 QoS channels. I'm not going deep into it's core because that's why I'm using framework nor my own network implementation. 😄

#

@barren fractal

#

https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib

GitHub

RevenantX/LiteNetLib

Lite reliable UDP library for Mono and .NET. Contribute to RevenantX/LiteNetLib development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

You can access source code though

#

its open-source

barren fractal Feb 22, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

I know, I have it on a project

#

All I managed was making my phone connect with my computer

#

But trying to figure out how to get packets to send between clients is a major shrug from me.

paper stone Feb 22, 2019, 10:40 PM

#

https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib/wiki/NetPacketProcessor-(NetSerializer)-usage

GitHub

RevenantX/LiteNetLib

Lite reliable UDP library for Mono and .NET. Contribute to RevenantX/LiteNetLib development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

Check this out

#

The idea is registering packets on both sides and communicate by sending byte arrays (the first data type is packet id and can be byte, short etc.)

#

whenever server/client send it to other side it unpacks byte array and take out bytes chunk by chunk so you can get info like array.GetByte() and turn it into id

vernal remnant Feb 23, 2019, 8:39 AM

#

Anyone know of a good source for getting a full tcp server going? Not just connectivity, can easily do that, mean practices for handling events and for packet encryption/decryption; pushing the correct packet IDs into the correct methods (send a vector over the server for example, dont want it to get confused between the three position/rotation/scale).
Ideally I think i need to find something that creates a copy of client1 on client2 and when client1 does something it simulates it for client2 rather than sending values

#

books are also accepted

tidal shard Feb 23, 2019, 12:44 PM

#

i really need to use proxy in my game and i'm currently using 2018.3 and network.useproxy is deprecated. then i see mirror asset but that didn't contain this api on it.
so any solution for using vpn and proxy or anything like that in unity?

gray pond Feb 23, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

@tidal shard That would be at transport level, not HLAPI level, in Mirror. The transports would have to reimplement that.

weak plinth Feb 23, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

^^

tidal shard Feb 23, 2019, 8:40 PM

#

@gray pond thank you for reply but could you please be a little more clear it has nothing about proxy in transport

gray pond Feb 23, 2019, 8:47 PM

#

@tidal shard In UNet Networking everything was jammed together and the only transport was UDP. In Mirror, we've separated the transports out to be independent, and interchangeable, components that handle all the connectivity and msg traffic, and that's where I think proxy-related code would be implemented. Your original question above is what first brought this to our attention, honestly, so we'd need to dig into it a bit further. I don't yet know if all transports would have proxy stuff or not.

paper stone Feb 24, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

It is possible a nodejs websocket server is more performent than for example WebSocketSharp in C# server?

#

trying to find decent Websocket solution in C# for multiplayer game like agar.io that will have decent performance

native fossil Feb 26, 2019, 3:32 AM

#

Can someone tell me the name of Unity’s network namespace? I have done some research but everything seems to be deprecated or removed.

gray pond Feb 26, 2019, 3:35 AM

#

@native fossil It was Networking - gone

paper flint Feb 26, 2019, 3:35 AM

#

it was recently depreciated yes

#

there's a new system in development to replace it

#

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/10/24/introducing-the-fps-sample/

Unity Technologies Blog

Introducing the FPS Sample – Unity Blog

At Unite LA yesterday, we announced the first release of the FPS Sample project, a multiplayer First-Person Shooter game. You can now download the full pr...

#

The netcode is using Unity’s new transport layer, which was just released in preview.

#

is the only example of using it i know of

#

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/08/02/evolving-multiplayer-games-beyond-unet/

Unity Technologies Blog

Evolving multiplayer games beyond UNet – Unity Blog

Through our connected games initiatives, we’re revamping how we can make networked games easier, more performant, and multiplayer-ready by default. To make...

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and where they announced the depreciation

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it's going to continue to be supported for awhile

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so you could still use it even though it's depreciated

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approx. 2-3 years from now

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but i know next to nothing about networking so there may be a lot i don't know about

compact bramble Feb 26, 2019, 4:13 AM

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run and never look back

stray scroll Feb 26, 2019, 9:13 AM

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Another (small example/the og repo)
https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 9:14 AM

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a repo not touched for 4 months

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And a bad one too

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This will not scale at all

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maybe workable for 10 player games

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I'm pretty sure this is even worse than LLAPI/HLAPI Unity made before

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the samples are horrible

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a simple Ping pong shouldent take thousands of lines of code over 10 files

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and the transport itself is a wrap around udp sockets

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without anything really

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no reliablity channel even

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so what's the point of that

stray scroll Feb 26, 2019, 9:35 AM

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Its a first view of the llapi and how to use it, from what I see same used in the FPS demo. Not including the packet there are 3 scripts needed for the ping pong(client, server,gui), so from a user perspective not a thousands line of code? And the transport layer is connection oriented UDP sockets with no reliability that are compatible with the ECS. Sure it would be nice with some RUDP, but it can be implemented in many ways and that in regards to the game, and who uses TCP anyway 😉

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 9:36 AM

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Nobody should be using TCP for a game

vital hawk Feb 26, 2019, 11:03 AM

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just to update a bit about UNet

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from https://forum.unity.com/threads/unet-deprecation-thread.543501/```
Update 2/14/19
We've been following user feedback, and took some time to discuss internally; we want to share a few updates:

LLAPI guaranteed in 2019 LTS build - due to demand for more time to transition and give the new transport more time to mature, we've decided to guarantee that the LLAPI will remain in the engine in the 2019 LTS build at the end of this year, and therefore will be supported with critical fixes in that build until Spring 2022. This is a 1-year extension from the original plan, and we will soon update the original blog post to reflect this change.
Plan of Intent for Networking - the networking team has published their current priorities and focus areas to the public git repo - it's their goal to keep this up-to-date with each of the projects we're currently working on. We've been seeing solid progress internally, and we're hopeful that some of the work-in-progress items listed in Github will be in the hands of the community soon.
DOTS-compatible - the new networking stack will work with ECS, Job System (for multi-threading), and Burst Compiler to reach the best possible performance and scale. AND, it does not require you to use DOTS for everything, most of your game can still be written in classic unity if you prefer that.
HLAPI support LLAPI and new transport - HLAPI will be released soon as a full-source package, and will be supported according to 2018LTS terms, so critical fixes will be provided until Spring 2021. This has not changed from the original plan. For clarity, The HLAPI will support LLAPI and the new transport (once it reaches a sufficient feature set) throughout this transition period. We feel confident that before 2021, the new networking stack will be a much more performant solution than the HLAPI, and we strongly recommend developers move over by this date.```

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so in other words, you are not in a hurry to move out of UNet if you like it (many don't)

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"the networking team has published their current priorities and focus areas to the public git repo" <- where is this?

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oh snap

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there was a link in the original post: https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer/projects/1

vernal remnant Feb 26, 2019, 11:12 AM

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depends on the game for the protocol

vital hawk Feb 26, 2019, 11:13 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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not a greatly detailed plan 😄

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 11:15 AM

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Just ditch that stuff and simply put it in a public repo

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even if it doesent run in the current released unity build

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get code in our hands so we can comment on it

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put in issues

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and help the development

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like the scriptable render pipelines

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or the post processing stack

vital hawk Feb 26, 2019, 11:15 AM

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I dunno, people shit on Unity for even doing preview releases 😄

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some people have really hard time grasping concept of wip

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modern devs *sigh

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but I don't really disagree, I love more transparent development

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especially since they are doing it for us, the engine users

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 11:16 AM

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right.

vital hawk Feb 26, 2019, 11:16 AM

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there's really not all that much reasons to hide what they are working on

stray scroll Feb 26, 2019, 12:04 PM

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I hate being in this dilemma if I should wait for them to complete their features or build something that works myself(but probably not as good as they will do it). I don't want to halt my gameplan, but I don't want to "waste" hours if I will just replace and throw it away either.

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 12:05 PM

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Just use the available things now

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not made by unity

stray scroll Feb 26, 2019, 12:12 PM

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Sure, but I want to use ECS, so something that would neatly integrate with that and be replaceable without too much of a hazard ^^

sand lotus Feb 26, 2019, 12:14 PM

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nothing with ecs will be easy but there is somebody that did it

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https://forum.unity.com/threads/showcase-enet-unity-ecs-5000-real-time-player-simulation.605656/

Unity Forum

[Showcase] ENet + Unity ECS (5000 real time player simulation)

Happy holidays everyone.

I would like to show you my progress in creating a high level api based on Unity ECS on top of the ENet network library.

The...

paper flint Feb 26, 2019, 5:57 PM

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I don't think it's bad they release a preview, but immediately depreciating the current solution leaves devs trying to write a networking game in Limbo

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they shouldn't start depreciating anything until the new solution is up and working.

vital hawk Feb 26, 2019, 7:02 PM

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In general yes. But unet wasnt a great solution for most to begin with

paper flint Feb 26, 2019, 7:07 PM

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so I've heard many say heh

knotty dust Feb 26, 2019, 7:39 PM

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Use other existing product like Photon is probably the best option.

weak plinth Feb 26, 2019, 8:18 PM

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Does anyone know if the PhotonNetwork.LoadLevel() do anything besides telling the clients in the room to load a certain scene? some behined-the-scenes-magic?

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Or can it be replaced by an RPC-instruction to tell the clients to load a scene with the SceneManager.LoadScene()

coarse sleet Feb 27, 2019, 4:08 PM

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I know Unet is going to change. Anyone knows if the Network Transport Layer API will also get changed? https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UNetUsingTransport.html

sand lotus Feb 27, 2019, 4:11 PM

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yes its kind of depricated right now

stray scroll Feb 27, 2019, 4:11 PM

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@coarse sleet
https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

night radish Feb 27, 2019, 4:13 PM

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What I don't get is why there is a package that still get updates with the old networking

stray scroll Feb 27, 2019, 4:13 PM

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I must say, I would have appreciated if the guys working at the FPS sample would've commented their code a bit better 😅

knotty dust Feb 27, 2019, 8:00 PM

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@weak plinth there is probably callback called

weak plinth Feb 28, 2019, 9:43 AM

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Hey, I'm looking for an asset which is similar to the Master Server Framework. Master Server Framework is out of date and crashes. My goal is that the player can create rooms where other players can join.

indigo current Feb 28, 2019, 12:57 PM

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@weak plinth it can be replaced with a rpc

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The only noteworthy difference is that I believe with photon load level other player scenes will update if automatically sync scene is true

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Which even then iirc that only applies to on connect.

vital hawk Feb 28, 2019, 6:34 PM

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posted about FPS Sample update here: https://forum.unity.com/threads/fps-sample-0-3-0-now-available.636883/

tidal shard Feb 28, 2019, 6:48 PM

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hey, can somebody please tell me how i use any sort of VPN , Proxy or best option change DNS for My android game I've been desperately looking for something and even tried using java sources but didn't get anything

solar garden Feb 28, 2019, 7:13 PM

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Is the new networking system out ?

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idk where to begin

paper flint Feb 28, 2019, 7:14 PM

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its still in preview

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but the FPS Sample uses it

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https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

GitHub

Unity-Technologies/multiplayer

Unity multiplayer packages and samples. Contribute to Unity-Technologies/multiplayer development by creating an account on GitHub.

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and i guess this is the repository/documentation?

solar garden Feb 28, 2019, 7:17 PM

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hey, oh cool i didn't know there was a preview thx

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 9:58 PM

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best protocol that's possible to use with unity to open a socket for a server side Python script that talks with the database? latency isn't a gmaechanger, but I'm thinking 50ms ping is too high? I read above TCP is bad for games which is what I had been trying to set up for localhost testing

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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"TCP is bad for games" is a nonsense blanket statement of absolute. It's challenging for twitch FPS. It's fine for a lot of other types of games.

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:04 PM

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@gray pond ok, cool, I have my answer then, I just need a localhopst based mockup as a placeholder to structure my framwork around anyway, thank!

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:04 PM

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Unity has UnityWebRequest if all you need to do is hit a web service

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you can then write the web service in anything you like

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it's HTTP(S) / REST

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That's not deprecated - it's what asset bundles use

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:05 PM

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I'm going to put my SQL DB and python scripts on a linux cluster at somepoint, not sure if http will suffice

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:06 PM

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web service will be a lot easier to load balance across a cluster than a socket

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socket is connect and stay - web service is request-response-done

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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xml isn't my thing, and I need the listen stream open the whole time, going to be reading writing buffers both ways

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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that's different - now you need a socket

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web service != XML btw

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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php, cpanel?

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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could be JSON, could be raw text, could be binary etc.

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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gotcha

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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the payload I mean

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:10 PM

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81 or 80?

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I'm network retarded

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:10 PM

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http=80, https = 443

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:11 PM

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telnet still exist lol?

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:11 PM

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but if you need a connection to persist so you can sustain bi-directional data over time (minutes or more) then you need a socket, not a web service

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:12 PM

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yea, I can open sockets with python, by I don't know the ins and outs of validation/certificates and how unity handles all that

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on the .Net end

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:12 PM

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outside of UnityWebRequest (which hits a web service, not a socket) Unity doesn't anymore

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:13 PM

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that answers my question..

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what about a plugin?

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a dll and seperate process?

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that's a pretty nastly limitation

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:14 PM

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what's the player side of the game like?

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:14 PM

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Not going to have access to 90% of the data on the client

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maybe, idk, I need to figure this out before I develop further

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:15 PM

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I mean what the play style...turn-based card, rpg... ?

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:15 PM

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open world, think EVE:Online

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simpler graphics ofc

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:15 PM

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so what are you going to do for server-side collisons, physics, navmesh, etc.?

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:16 PM

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not much physics involved, just use EVE's bounce if your kinda cloe approach

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and the meshes are 2d "cutouts" in a 3d world

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just orbitabl mechanics at a basic level and isTargetted = true; kinda stuff

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maybe even forget collision altogether and leave the shaderqueue to decides who's in front

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:18 PM

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I think you're going to quickly find you need Unity on the server side unless you're going full client-auth (cheat mode)

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:19 PM

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I just don't want to waste access to a server I can rent for free that hosted 1000 minecraft servers in the past

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simple game, something like this, adding the simulated zed axis now https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/493511468134694912/550759016259911681/2019-02-27_16-40-30.mp4

▶ Play video

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I'll have to find a way to open a socket, there has to be some solution besides WWW

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:24 PM

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You could start with DarkRift2 that runs as a stand alone on server (no unity) but if you think you're going to want Unity goodies at all on the server side that's going to be a lot of work compared to something like Mirror.

proud ice Feb 28, 2019, 11:25 PM

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I don't need unity on server side

gray pond Feb 28, 2019, 11:25 PM

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k, then look up DarkRift2

charred patrol Mar 1, 2019, 7:22 PM

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Hello, I know very littlie of network coding but I am trying to update some old code that is using the old WWW, what is the new way to get www.text in UnityWebRequest or is there something I should be doing differently.

low jackal Mar 2, 2019, 3:05 PM

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Can someone help me brainstorm best way to sync a canvas?

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For multiplayer drawing

tidal shard Mar 2, 2019, 5:09 PM

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hey, i have no experience on networking in unity and i have to implement Realtime multiplayer in short time.
so i have to choose between Mirror and Forge Networking Remastered which one you recommend for someone like me?

sand lotus Mar 3, 2019, 9:46 AM

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Photon

indigo current Mar 3, 2019, 3:36 PM

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Photon is the easiest to learn but expensive in the end if you have regular players. If you use photon make sure you use photon bolt

sand lotus Mar 3, 2019, 3:42 PM

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well yes its expensive but the dude sais he has no experience and has to build realtime multiplayer in short time

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well there are your options

split rapids Mar 3, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Hey, is there any library that you guys use for web socket connection in your unity games? I am using WebSocketSharp for a turn-base online game in unity and it has major issues in android devices change network detection.

dusky storm Mar 3, 2019, 9:41 PM

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@split rapids we use a slightly modified Ninja.Websockets version for Mirror

weak plinth Mar 5, 2019, 4:41 PM

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Is there anyone her who has tried to use CorgiEngine together with Photon?

candid cove Mar 6, 2019, 12:28 PM

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I have an idea for a project that would involve displaying either a user's personal Google Photos
OR
the results of a public search using Google Image Search.
Can anyone tell me
a) Is either approach possible in Unity?
and
b) What is the best strategy for displaying image data pulled from the web inside Unity?

vernal remnant Mar 6, 2019, 1:50 PM

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you can use rest/httprequest for google drive things, you do need an access token though so you would have to find out how to get through that
(User sign in, you need to contact google for the access key, find *.png/bmp/jpg/jpeg etc)

solar garden Mar 7, 2019, 7:44 PM

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Any tips for a dedicated server setup ?

sand lotus Mar 7, 2019, 7:48 PM

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you mean hardware?

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 6:52 PM

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For a game set in space, I figured rigidbody would be my best bet with all of the physics around space and I needed some freedom that the CC doesn't really offer

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How would I go replicating players with a rigidbody?

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 7:47 PM

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with server auth? Or client pos auth? @glass bobcat

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 7:59 PM

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@jade glacier server auth would be better but not critical

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It's a coop survival game

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Nothing competitive but I might add other modes

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 7:59 PM

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with server auth its a bit challenging with phsyx, since you don't control the simulation

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 8:00 PM

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F

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:00 PM

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People deal with it by allowing some amount of error, because its hard to push corrections from the server back onto the owner

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For client position authority, you just send the transform to the server, using whatever form of compression you see fit, and with some form of buffering to smooth out jitter

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https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/network-sync-transform-nst-98453
The sample scene in my asset does that, if you want to see an RB synced

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 8:01 PM

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I'll check it out

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I'll also try the first solution for server auth

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:02 PM

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server auth with RBs isn't a lot of fun. with 2018.3 though they changed phsyics

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so you can resimulate, but its still a bunch of extra steps to do that

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 8:02 PM

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Yeah

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I could use CC but for a space game with 0 gravity in some cases, players floating around etc it might not be as good/as easy to use

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:03 PM

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Yeah, look at my demo scene

vital hawk Mar 9, 2019, 8:04 PM

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why on earth you would have server auth on co-op?

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that's like asking for trouble for all the wrong reasons

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 8:04 PM

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Nothing competitive but I might add other modes

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:04 PM

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its floaty quaternion based dudes with RB forces being synced.

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client auth has downsides, but for a coop it very well may be worth going that direction. I would only recommend server auth if you are looking to either become a networking guru, or if your game is really going to need that kind of anti-cheat and fairness built in

vital hawk Mar 9, 2019, 8:05 PM

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server auth is one thing

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:05 PM

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You can server auth some stuff

vital hawk Mar 9, 2019, 8:05 PM

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doing that for physics is total another level difficulty

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 8:06 PM

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like you can server auth to check on hitscan claims

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and tracking score and such

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but the movement as server auth really needs you to manhandle the simulation, more than you probably want

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https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/network-sync-transform-nst-98453

This literally exists for what you are describing. Not trying to sell you on it, but the demo scene will give you an idea of how client movement authority feels in a real usage

solar garden Mar 9, 2019, 8:36 PM

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How would you do if you wanted to go from spectator to joinning a team ?

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do you destroy the spectator and instaciate a new player but you have to pass the id to the new player prefab

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or do you just change the player inside the gameobject

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 9:23 PM

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Unet?

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 9:46 PM

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ty for the tips @jade glacier

jade glacier Mar 9, 2019, 9:46 PM

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helped I hope

glass bobcat Mar 9, 2019, 9:48 PM

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yeah i'll probably go with client auth on pos

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with a couple of sanity checks

cerulean bluff Mar 12, 2019, 12:19 PM

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hi guys, i have a question i'am searching in the unity Manual when i look for the Network manager Section, there is only written Obsolete but no link whatsoever to the new Manual.
😩

compact bramble Mar 12, 2019, 5:14 PM

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It's now on package manager instead

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https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UNetUsingHLAPI.html (docs)

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📎 unknown.png

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Unity's removed HLAPI from newer versions and provides it here for people who still want to use it + newer unity

cerulean bluff Mar 12, 2019, 8:19 PM

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@compact bramble hey very cool thanks!

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@steep wigeon would be cool if you write such things into the manual instead of just obsolete 😉

gray pond Mar 12, 2019, 11:36 PM

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Everything's still deprecated in the package, isn't it? There's no HLAPI planned for the new ECS thing Unity is making. They've just tossed this out for legacy.

compact bramble Mar 12, 2019, 11:51 PM

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Their new networking will be ready by then, it's being developed alongside

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one doesn't advance without the other

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they have it implemented in their fps sample project, partially as hybrid and low level transport. the rest is coming, so they'd love me to keep saying

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the reality is I have no idea the progress of it.

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but that's the plan

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in any case I'm not fussed, photon is always there and @graceful zephyr always grimly looking down from his throne of dead modems

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:17 PM

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I think the new networking is going to be even worse than HLAPI

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I have 0 trust in unity to do it right

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their current project they put up is horrible

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and their FPS example is also very badly implemented

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I think it will be the end for unity in the topic of networking

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the average dev will go to unreal because of the lacking multiplayer on Unity.

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:29 PM

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Which networking solution would be recommended for a game of for example 4 people without a dedicated server, so peer to peer?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:38 PM

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for such low player numbers anything can work

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choose any of the 297982 options that you like the most

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:40 PM

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The reason why I'm asking @sand lotus is because I don't really know all the 5239723 options. The only one I've heard of is Mirror. That's why I'm asking in here, since the people in here have more knowledge about it than me 🙂

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:41 PM

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For small project like your making mirror is probably OK

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It's not really very performant but who cares at 4 players

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just don't use their standard TCP transport, switch it to some UDP variant, I believe they offer two

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Are there any with a mix of both TCP and UDP?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:42 PM

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Why would you want that?

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:42 PM

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In case I've packets which are important, and some which I simply don't care about.

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So it's less performant.

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:43 PM

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In a game situation you should never want TCP, let alone a mix of TCP and UDP, there are plenty of good Reliable UDP libraries around, that have the option to send things in reliable channels (they will always arrive, data gets resend when lost) and unreliable channels ( data lost is lost)

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Mirror itself is also having some UDP options that both implement reliable UDP

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if you mix TCP with UDP things start to break fast, TCP will make UDP pretty much die.

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:44 PM

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But why does TCP exist if you've reliable UDP lol

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:44 PM

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Because some people have no option to use UDP, for instance their making browser games

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Or TCP simply works for their slow paced turn based games

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:45 PM

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Alright!

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:45 PM

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TCP is supposedly easy, because you don't care you send something and it will arrive for sure, and in the right order

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sounds awesome

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the problem is if something is lost, the data is resend

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but maybe some data you dont care about

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Lets say your sending 20 movement updates per second

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if movement update 11 is lost

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12 13 14 15 16 get ignored

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till 11 is finally resend

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then all are pushed to the game

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but by then the information in update 11 is useless

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and 16 arrived super late

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:46 PM

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I see the problem yeah.

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But mirror is probably going to be the best one for me?

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(The UDP variant)

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:47 PM

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There are many options, if you want something really simple for 4 players that is fine

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if you want to get a bit more dirty you can try implementing any of the transports yourself directly

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You can also choose to go with the solutions around

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like Photon etc

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if you don't want to bother about a lot of things

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but that can cost money

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:48 PM

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"can", what's the point you've to pay?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:49 PM

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100 CCU i think

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:50 PM

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And mirror, does that have paid features?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:52 PM

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no

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it's just a fork of the Unity HLAPI

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open source project

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missing some features from HLAPI

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:53 PM

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And are any of those missing feature's important ones?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:54 PM

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depends your use case

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I think they removed the whole lobby system but recently brought it back

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more than that I'm not sure.

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What kind of game your building anyway

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except 4 players

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:56 PM

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I just simply want to test with some small scale networking solutions, not planning on doing really anything with it. 🙂

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Just expanding my knowledge 😄

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:56 PM

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alright

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if you want to really learn something you can just use mirror to get things working

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and if you want to learn more about actual networking

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serializing data and so on

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you could do code it yourself

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:58 PM

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Building my own networking solution on a low level API you mean?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:58 PM

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yeah

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if you want to learn something

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that is fun!

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:58 PM

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Hmm

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Which API would you recommend :3

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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https://github.com/nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

GitHub

nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

Reliable UDP networking library extended for the .NET environment - nxrighthere/ENet-CSharp

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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Only one I've ever seen was something called lidgren

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 1:59 PM

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Lidgren should be depricated

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the one i linked is the fastest one around right now

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but its having unmanaged code

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if you want to stay in managed code

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you could use this one

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:00 PM

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Sorry, I don't quite get what you mean with "unmanaged code".

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 2:00 PM

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https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib

GitHub

RevenantX/LiteNetLib

Lite reliable UDP library for Mono and .NET. Contribute to RevenantX/LiteNetLib development by creating an account on GitHub.

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Unmanaged code is non C# code

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enet is simply C code

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so it's a native binary you interop with C#

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:04 PM

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I think I'm going to play around with LiteNetLib a bit. :3

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Thanks for the help ❤

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@sand lotus One question though, why shouldn't I use a precompiled .DLL? I also don't really know how to include the library sources in Unity xd Always use library sources instead of precompiled DLL files..

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 2:12 PM

#

Unity has to just use the source

#

so don't use C# dll's

#

unless there is no other option

#

Ofc you can use native Dll's like in enet.

#

You can use C# dll's but sometimes that can be troublesome

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:17 PM

#

But how would I let Unity use the source?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

Copy the files into the project

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

Just that?

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

under assets make a folder drag it in done

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

Oh lol

#

😂

#

uuhh https://gyazo.com/8aaca30e7e2db40aa775245bb3395a30

Gyazo

#

Even the example on their github page use a .DLL >_<

sand lotus Mar 13, 2019, 2:31 PM

#

https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib/releases/download/v0.8.3/LiteNetLib-0.8.3.zip

#

you used that?

#

maybe is going to work better for you

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 2:34 PM

#

Seems to work!

void burrow Mar 13, 2019, 4:12 PM

#

It works >:) https://gyazo.com/a486dab23149eb18ed0ff662e702dd34

Gyazo

glass bobcat Mar 13, 2019, 11:02 PM

#

gj

wheat flower Mar 14, 2019, 8:30 AM

#

I'm having a bit of a struggle. I have set up a simple tcp client and tcp listener (more or less indentical from the examples in https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.net.sockets.tcpclient?view=netframework-4.7.2 and https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.net.sockets.tcplistener?view=netframework-4.7.2)
Running the server through the Unity Editor, clients using a built instance are rarely are able to find and connect to the server. When the server is running on a built instance and client in either the Unity Edtior, or a built instance, everything works fine no problem.
Does anyone have any experience with this issue? I'd like to be able to run the server through Unity to have better debug capabilities

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:02 AM

#

@sand lotus Do you've by any chance an example for the NetPacketProcessor? Since I'm really confused on how it works, and can't quite figure it out.

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:03 AM

#

i never worked with litenetlib

#

i did make my own packet processing algoritms though

#

but can't really show you something

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:04 AM

#

Seems like I'll have to use something else then, since the examples from the person them self aren't finished and the wiki really lacks information 😐

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:05 AM

#

most lower level libs don't have much documentation

#

you just have to get it to work 😃

#

with your own code

#

i thought your point was to learn something

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

That's the problem. I can't get it too work, even with the most spaghetti code ever.

#

And yes, it's still to learn something.

#

But how am I suppose to learn something when there are no tutorials, barely any documentation and half finished examples?

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib/blob/master/LibSample/PacketProcessorExample.cs

GitHub

RevenantX/LiteNetLib

Lite reliable UDP library for Mono and .NET. Contribute to RevenantX/LiteNetLib development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

i saw that on the git

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

Yes, and I followed that.

#

And it ended up to even be able to send the packets with a big mess of code, and second of all still doesn't receive the packet.

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

you folowed the unity example right

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

It's not finished.

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:09 AM

#

https://github.com/RevenantX/LiteNetLib/tree/master/LiteNetLibSampleUnity

GitHub

RevenantX/LiteNetLib

Lite reliable UDP library for Mono and .NET. Contribute to RevenantX/LiteNetLib development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

I see

#

I haven't checked the contents of the lib too much

#

I only saw people use the transport to great success

#

If you want something that is more higher level

#

poking at transports is not the way

#

maybe https://forum.unity.com/threads/mlapi-hlapi-replacement.511277/ this is more for you

Unity Forum

Unity Multiplayer - MLAPI - HLAPI Replacement

[IMG]

Hello. I want to tell you about my project called the MLAPI. It's a high level network abstraction library similar to the HLAPI. It's designed...

void burrow Mar 14, 2019, 11:13 AM

#

I'll take a look at that 🙂

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 11:13 AM

#

It has examples a wiki and everything

rocky shore Mar 14, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

Hey, I'm trying to talk with an API but am having some trouble. The code that worked before was:

private string url = "http://api.site.com/api.php/function"

IEnumerator CallApi() {
    WWWForm API = new WWWForm();
    API.AddField("name", "value");
    WWW APIReturn = new WWW(url, API);

    yield return APIReturn;

    if(!string.IsNullOrEmpty(APIReturn.error)) {
        Debug.Log("ERROR: " + APIReturn.error);
    } else {
        Debug.Log(APIReturn.text);
        //DO STUFF WITH RETURN VALUES
    }
}

#

After installing a SSL certificate (and changing the url to https) however this stopped working

#

I now get the following error: "SQL server does not exist or access denied"

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

Looking at the FPSSample server side, is there any other reason than possibly having multiple Receive and Send over clumped Ticks for not using FixedUpdate instead of their own loop?

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

I suppose because fixedupdate is not really reliable to get anything at a certain pace

#

if the server slows down it could run multiple fixed updates after eachother

#

because it can never miss one it HAS to execute them

#

even if you run lets say your fixed update at 30

#

and your server fps at 30

#

sometimes a frame happens without fixed update

#

and then next frame will have two fixed updat runs

#

it's just not a good way to handle that stuff.

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

Hmm, that's true. So in that case you would try to tweak the normal Update rate anyway to try to keep fixedUpdates spread out.

#

Which is presumably harder since you don't have access to the timers...

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

So the best thing to do is just run your frames at a set rate

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

Now I think I'm going outside the realm of networking, but I'm trying to find a way to run the ComponentSystems "manually" in that loop. Like World.RunSystems();, and the closest I've found is that it is tied to PlayerLoopSystem, but then you get back to using your own Update method. :/ I need some more code exposed x)

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:18 PM

#

or decouple you're game from your networking side and leave it in it a dedicated thread?

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:20 PM

#

For the server side?

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:21 PM

#

yeah

#

there is also some info here https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/

#

This is pretty much how fixed update works

#

it's very based on physics

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

Yeah, I've read that.

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

but maybe for networking you don't want that

#

Personally I run the game at server side at set framerate (32) and hopefully the server processes everything in that time (31,25ms)

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

And done it in my old game engine, but this question was more aimed at ECS than networking 😃 Still don't get what you would get out of splitting the send/recv from tick on the server.

sand lotus Mar 14, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

ah

stray scroll Mar 14, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

Thanks for the help : )

void burrow Mar 15, 2019, 11:29 AM

#

@sand lotus Little update, I’ve given LiteNetLib another chance and it now works! 😄

void burrow Mar 15, 2019, 10:26 PM

#

So question, how would I go about making pathfinding on the server side?

#

How is the server suppose to know how the map looks like?

jovial rapids Mar 15, 2019, 10:31 PM

#

export navmesh ¯_(ツ)_/¯

tender falcon Mar 16, 2019, 4:15 AM

#

what’s a reliable method to securely send POST requests to a server from Unity?

gray pond Mar 16, 2019, 4:58 AM

#

UnityWebRequest @tender falcon

#

does https POST, GET, etc.

vernal remnant Mar 16, 2019, 7:24 AM

#

you still have access to the actual WebRequest class as well

tender falcon Mar 16, 2019, 8:28 AM

#

@gray pond @vernal remnant got it. If im uploading a mic recording, would you recommend base64 encoding it and sending it in the metadata? Or a different strategy?

gray pond Mar 16, 2019, 8:36 AM

#

@tender falcon I'm off to bed, but see if this helps https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UnityWebRequest-UploadingRawData.html

vernal remnant Mar 16, 2019, 8:50 AM

#

Would search around, things like NAudio or manually using winmm.dll come to mind... Or find other sources that assist with it; I think they mostly send wav bytes... Create audio, save, send to server; if success delete saved file, or attempt to send again... Receive bytes, create wav, play file, delete file

#

or you could probably just stream bytes out and play it on the receiver

#

only problem is that you wont have any fallback if there is packet loss (depending how important the voice clip is)

#

And you will still need to process chunks, because some people just dont shut up

void burrow Mar 16, 2019, 11:16 AM

#

Question, how do games normally connect to servers on other IP's without port forwarding? The Forest does this for example, but I'm wondering how.

#

And with server I mean a client which is a server / client 😄

vernal remnant Mar 16, 2019, 11:26 AM

#

Forest probably uses 7777, common game port and is usually open

sand lotus Mar 16, 2019, 11:36 AM

#

Probably through relay servers

vital hawk Mar 16, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

@void burrow forest uses steamworks as the middleman

#

So steam itself takes care of that

sand lotus Mar 16, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

Yeah so relay

vital hawk Mar 16, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

They use photon bolt so technically they could use photon cloud too, but pretty sure they used the steamworks setup (it is not offered automatically anymore as it doesnt help them to sell ccu plans)

rigid fiber Mar 16, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

@void burrow @vital hawk Either way that comes out to relays. steamworks and photon cloud are both relays

undone sigil Mar 16, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

@vital hawk i've seen The Forest on Made with Photon page

vital hawk Mar 16, 2019, 5:32 PM

#

It uses photon bolt

#

@undone sigil

weak plinth Mar 16, 2019, 6:16 PM

#

^^

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

does somebody knows a good solution to make a server authoritative dedicated server ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:28 AM

#

Depends on how your game works and what your server needs to be able to do @solar garden

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

Im aiming to do the same thing as counter-strike or the source engine in general i tried photon bolt and other Unet tutorials but it seems either way you still need to go through a cloud

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:33 AM

#

Dedicated server implies you intend to host it someplace like GameLift, PlayFab, Vultr, Digital Ocean, etc.

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:34 AM

#

but they are just servers or they are more than that ? i mean i could host my game on a home server ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:34 AM

#

Some service that will either run a perpetual world non-stop or will spawn instances as needed for matches

#

hosting at home is problematic because of NAT

#

There are solutions but they don't work 100% so you end up needing an actual public server as a relay, which will add latency, so you end up putting it on a public server anyway

#

Some services have free tiers where you can run your server with a limited CCU and bandwidth for free or very cheap while you're doing development.

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:40 AM

#

and for the game logic part what can be a good solution to build the authoritative setup while also being able to host on whatever Service i want ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:41 AM

#

That's back to the original question of what the server needs to be capable of. A turn-based card game doesn't need what a WoW game does

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:41 AM

#

oh it needs to be realtime

#

its a basic multiplayer fps

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:42 AM

#

Physics? Collisions? Raycasting? NavMesh?

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:42 AM

#

can it have all ? haha

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:42 AM

#

probably all of that - Check out Mirror https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/network/mirror-129321

Mirror - Asset Store

Mirror is a high level Networking API for Unity, built on top of the low level Telepathy library.
( Forum )
( Chat )

Mirror is built and tested for MMO Scale Networking by the developers of uMMORPG , uSurvival and Cubica .

Mirror is optimized for ease ...

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

it says that it was built for MMO's, could it work with fps ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:44 AM

#

yup

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:45 AM

#

well i'll give it a shot thank you

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 11:46 AM

#

There's a Chat link there that takes you to our Discord - we're there when you need help

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 11:47 AM

#

great ! i'll be sure to ask thx

rigid fiber Mar 17, 2019, 11:53 AM

#

sounds like you guys are talking about Noble Connect

#

oh I was looking at some junk way in the past...disregard

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

@gray pond Mirror uses TCP ??

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

@solar garden Mirror has 5 transports to chose from: TCP, UDP (2), Steam, and WebGL

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

steam too ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

They're interchangeable components, so you can just swap them out

#

yes

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

What does it means like it is using the steam cloud ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

yup

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

didn't even know it was possible this mean that you can get steam id's for the player ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

https://vis2k.github.io/Mirror/Transports/

Mirror

Transports

Documentation for Mirror, a high level networking library for Unity

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

oh cool

#

isn't there a version for unity 2018.2 ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

Unity has a mem leak in 2018.2

#

we're stable on 2018.3.6+

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

oh i didn't even knew

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

.3 also got us c#7

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

i was staying on 2 because i dont like the new prefabs workflow

#

is it better ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

Mixed reviews - depends who you ask (nested prefabs)

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

aha ok

#

oh there is a liteNetLib implementation too this is good i wanted to use it but it lacks documentation

sand lotus Mar 17, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Prefabs suck

#

.3 is still unstable

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

like I said - mixed reviews

#

It's like asking if Tofu is good

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

i dont understand why you have to open your prefabs instead of just modifing like this

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

this is off-topic for networking

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

mirror supports physics too right ?

undone sigil Mar 17, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

At least it'll stop occasionally corrupting your scene when modifying a prefab

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

networking doesn't care what data you send

#

so yes

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:55 PM

#

true just making sure 😄

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:56 PM

#

that said, making physics sync right over network isn't for the feint of heart

#

regardless of what you're using

#

prediction, replay, interpolation, buffering, etc.

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:57 PM

#

does it matter in a authoritative setup ?

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

auth is harder for a lot of things, including physics

#

not gonna sugar coat it 😃

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

i can see that it has been two weeks and i still didn't started 😄

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

one of the better articles on the subject http://www.codersblock.org/blog/client-side-prediction-in-unity-2018

Coder's Block

Client-Side Prediction With Physics In Unity

TL;DR I made a demo showing how to do client-side prediction with physics-based player movement in Unity - GitHub . Introduction Back in early 2012 I wrote a blog post about kind-of-but-not-really implementing client-side prediction of physics-based player movement ...

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

tried bolt it was fun but there is the clout restriction problem

#

cool

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 2:01 PM

#

Everyone wants to make a full physics character controller over network and then they find out just how hard that is

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

i thought it was as simple as to make clients kinematic and sending their velocity from the server

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 2:02 PM

#

and you found out it isn't

#

if you're going to make them kinematic, than there's not much point in doing rigidbody physics

#

may as well do a regular character controller...much easier

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

no but their velocity is set by the server

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

read the article - it covers all this ground

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

yeah i think i will 😄

gray pond Mar 17, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

it steps through all the challenges, and how to overcome them to the extent reasonably possible

#

There's even a github linked from it

solar garden Mar 17, 2019, 2:06 PM

#

sweet

#

crazy to think that the guys at valve nailed it back to 2004

weak plinth Mar 17, 2019, 3:06 PM

#

How do you adjust for interpolation of character movement while using RPC for actions like shoot?

#

I've implemented Valve's character-interpolation on 20 network-ticks and previous 200ms of data

#

but my RPC-action are nowhere near in sync

#

I'm using PUN2 by the way

wind quest Mar 18, 2019, 2:24 AM

#

I'm starting to experiment with turn-based multiplayer on Android. I just wanted to ask before I got too deep: Is there a commonly accepted way to do this kinda thing? Or at least a good place to start, before I go barking up the wrong tree? I'm new to trying online multiplayer in Unity and I'm having trouble sorting through the old/contradictor/expensive advice.

I found this post that seemed like a good start:
https://medium.com/@div5yesh/turn-based-multiplayer-games-in-unity3d-using-unet-abcd8360ddd5
but then found out Unity recently announced they are deprecating UNet, so I'm not sure what to think.

So, any general pointing in the right direct would be wonderful.

Medium

Turn-based Multiplayer Games in Unity3D using UNet

Note: This article uses unity3d multiplayer networking concepts, learn more here “Unity-Multiplayer Networking”.

gray pond Mar 18, 2019, 8:48 AM

#

While Mirror is a very good direct replacement for the deprecated UNet, such packages may well be overkill for a turn-based game if you don't need server-side physics, collisions, raycasting, or nav mesh agents. If that's the case, a simple server, or perhaps even a web service might suffice. Just sayin' think through your needs carefully.

vital hawk Mar 18, 2019, 10:01 AM

#

Unity is still updating UNet too

#

they just released new package for HLAPI today

#

an HLAPI package is going to stay around throughout 2018 LTS, so for next 2 years

#

LLAPI is going to say for year longer with 2019 LTS

#


## [1.0.2] - 2019-03-18

### Changed
- Fixed issue with population of Syncvar variable on a class derived from a networkbehaviour base class (case 1066429)
- Fixed issue with IsDynamic not working on .net 3.5 profile (use something else)]
- Fixed file lock error when building under certain conditions (case 1115492)
 
## [1.0.1] - 2019-02-14

### Changed
- Disabled warnings around the usage of the 'new' keyword in the NetworkTransform, it's needed sometimes but can trigger when building (likely because of stripping) and the warning messed with CI/automation

## [1.0.0] - 2019-02-13

### Changed
- Only updating version to 1.0.0 to reflect the status of the package

## [0.2.6-preview] - 2019-02-13

### Changed
- Got rid of all warnings generated when the package is built, so it's CI/automation friendly
- Readme updated

## [0.2.5-preview] - 2019-01-29

### Changed
- Fixed Syncvar variable update issue. Modify both the writing and reading syncvar data as per channel. (Fixed cases 1110031, 1111442 and 1117258)

## [0.2.4-preview] - 2019-01-11

### Changed
- Fixed issue with assembly dependencies not being found by the weaver during certain conditions (like when doing full reimport).

### Added
- Added API documentation, migrated from unity source repo, only some formatting changes, text itself unchanged.

## [0.2.3-preview] - 2018-12-17

### This is the first release of the *Unity Multiplayer HLAPI \<com.unity.multiplayer-hlapi\>*.

Initial release of the Unity Multiplayer HLAPI (or UNet HLAPI) moved into a package. This will
work with Unity 2019.1.0a12 and onwards.```

#

(from HLAPI changelog)

quaint marsh Mar 19, 2019, 4:40 PM

#

what networking solution would you use for a 2d webgl game?

gray pond Mar 19, 2019, 4:59 PM

#

Mirror since it's one of the few that actually supports WS and WSS

#

That's assuming you need Unity features on the server. If you don't then Mirror is overkill.

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 5:05 PM

#

MLAPI

#

or even hlapi from package manager

#

does it matter? if it's your first game use anything, photon even has a free option

quaint marsh Mar 19, 2019, 5:07 PM

#

myeah i am trying photon 2 right now but it gets compile errors when i switch build target to webgl 🤔

sour plover Mar 19, 2019, 5:37 PM

#

@quaint marsh find the PhotonUnityNetworking asmdef and add the PhotonWebSocket reference to it

📎 unknown.png

quaint marsh Mar 19, 2019, 5:39 PM

#

i dont have that

sour plover Mar 19, 2019, 5:40 PM

#

you should

#

@quaint marsh

📎 unknown.png

quaint marsh Mar 19, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

oh there it is. i guess i cant search for *.asmdef in the project

#

there we go! boom! everything is green! :D

sour plover Mar 19, 2019, 5:43 PM

#

glad to help 😃

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:35 PM

#

I appreciate unity's investment into multiplay but I supect it would be slightly more useful with a robust networking library :P

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

hot take

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

You really expect more?

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

I hope so!

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

From the multiplay code they put on git so far I am crying hard

#

It's like they know nothing about how OS works with networking IO

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:41 PM

#

But vince you would be unhappy if you didn't have something to moan about. Be thankful they give you beautiful moments of hate

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:41 PM

#

😦

#

I spend 90% of my time making solutions and code or using assets for basic things an engine should have

#

I got annoyed over the last 6 years working in unity

#

forgive me

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:42 PM

#

honestly I don't know what is happening with unity networking, just make sure you never use @ followed by these letters without spaces: f h o l m

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:42 PM

#

after the LLAPI/HLAPI fiasco I don't trust unity

#

and then they came with this new multiplayer layer

#

and it's like the worst implementation for scalable network interfaces you can come up with

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:42 PM

#

same, I coded an FPS tank battle game in HLAPI and realised it had really bad memory management

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:43 PM

#

especially since they slap it into jobs without even knowing how IO scaling works on the Operating System, a big overhead layer that will not scale.

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:43 PM

#

then I looked into LLAPI, then unity depreciated it all.. so I dropped it and now my trust is a little burned

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:43 PM

#

I really enjoy what some unity teams are making, like what is happening on PostFX, Scriptable render pipelines and so on is amazing. but why can't they not invest the same into multiplayer

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:44 PM

#

they are, is my understanding

#

it's just very early

#

and I agree with the skepticism, overall

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:44 PM

#

LLAPI dies with more than 8 players ie reliable messages never arrive, so that's useless, HLAPI is just a broken mess by itself

#

They are not Jason

#

What they uploaded is the worst implementation on UDP i ever seen

#

and i've seen a lot

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:44 PM

#

thing is it's not "early"

#

it's been quite some time between stopping work on unet (2+ years ago) til now... that's time enough, surely?

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

whats the new shit called again?

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

IT's like somebody that doesen't know anything about how Networking works, or Operating systems, decided to just take a wraper around native sockets, slap it in some jobs and say it's scalable (which it isent)

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

that sounds like something I would build

#

😄

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

well it's fine for a 4-8 player game i think if allocations are pooled

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

The most important thing you would expect from an UDP network library to have Reliable channels perhaps, be low level and fast and be scalable

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

but i didn't know LLAPI was also flawed

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

all of that is not in the networking unity released

#

It's very flawed hippo

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

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meaning an rUDP impl?

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

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yeah

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

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got it

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

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But great reliable UDP libraries exist

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:46 PM

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yeah

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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enet would be a good bet

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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why re-invent the wheel (badly) and then slap Jobs on it

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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photon is built on enet btw

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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enet is just 5000 lines of C code

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it is so simple

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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and its tight

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:47 PM

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we use it too btw

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you could opt for a more modern way to interact with OS

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but at least that works yes

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better than unity networking for sure

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:48 PM

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i don't use enet because i want a lot of things taken care of - i need matchmaking, i need host migration and I need relays done for me - i simply have no time.

all of those are only covered by photon atm :(

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so I need an overall package solution

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this does not exist really does it

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:48 PM

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yeah not really

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MLAPI maybe

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:49 PM

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no servers

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:49 PM

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you need build in hosting?

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then really only photon i guess

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:49 PM

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i need the server infrastructure to be fully managed not by me

sand lotus Mar 19, 2019, 6:49 PM

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so i guess your options are Photon, SpartialOS

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:50 PM

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that's actually the main thing i need, because code is not a problem... having servers get hit or compromised or just slyly hacked for furture ddos purposes (quite common) can add up to a seriously expensive mistake on my part...

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so having that properly managed with the provided having accountability is good

paper flint Mar 19, 2019, 6:51 PM

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I don't know how anyone can talk about Spatial after the crap they pulled with Unity

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i'd never touch them with a 10 foot pole now

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:51 PM

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lol @ spatial

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any company reacting like they did instead of coming to the table to talk.... reacting by immediately running to the nearest competitor ... what a joke

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i will never use them.

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they lost badly though, they may be able to use all of unity's tech for free but their name is now mud fo the biggest game engine in the world

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:54 PM

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in their defense - I'm pretty sure this is at the end of a lot of failed talks

compact bramble Mar 19, 2019, 6:55 PM

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no, I know the full story

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I'll not be talking about it but spatial sucks.

split crescent Mar 19, 2019, 6:55 PM

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haha