Heartless in wall card bug/exploit.

[lilac plinth]

I hate this so much, theres no skill, no setup and no counterplay as some others will tell you.

Its the most simple, braindead combo someone can pull with no serious downsides, I cant tell you how many times i've had a round 2-0 and get reverse 3-0'ed because they have the cards, card profain for a second round and then im stacked under on cards for the final round (this has happend alot sadly ;-;).

On a less salt laden reaction, I gotta be real this is something that is plaguing the higher tiers of ranked, it isnt hard for a stevie to mow you down before you can even play poison or a duck anderson slooowly riddle your ice block while you just watch him do it, I've adopted all the counters but bombs dont go through it anymore, karrotov doesnt pass through the wall either even when placed directly on top of it and the only realistic thing to do when its played is use poison bullets and hope they dont have cards to heal, theres no counter play, no interesting hide and seek dynamic and it overall impacts the games balance gigantically because to beat a 5 or 4 card combo you need to put 2 for karrotov or 2 for poison bullets, poison B. is a good card but karrotov is a waste and absolutely over valued for what it does, please for the love of all that is friendly, fix/nerf this please!

(I understand this was posted before but we've gone a good amount of patches with no mention to it, so I will once again start this push to not deal with it.)

https://youtu.be/kRNcau3mMC8

this match went on for a full minute of cat and mouse

and frankly was the one that made me wanna die

[steel yacht]

You can shoot the heart from that position without any card btw, where he placed it is no where near optimal. The molotov almost always works if you know how and where to throw it depending on heart placement i think it only defers if it's elevated?

Also if it troubles you so much maybe run movement card instead of clown shoes and remove katana for something like phantom bullets

although the rest should be enough lol

[lilac plinth]

Molotovs on some inclines will almost always miss the heart due to how it displaces, the flames aren't consistent even if placed directly beside or on top of a wall, poorly placed hearts still can't be shot well because the wall hit box isn't to model so you're left sitting there visually seeing the heart while the wall eats the shots

The katana and clown shoes are part of a Sabo build, but I put poison and molotov on every build because I was told it works, movement isn't a bad idea, but phantom bullets is overkill to counter 1 combo, like, really overkill

The molotov and poison bullets are already a commitment and with the increased card costs there isn't a lot of flexibility with it

[steel yacht]

you mean just the molotov

there is no reason not to use poison bullets

in a regular deck

[lilac plinth]

Poison bullets go through heartless at a lower cost

[steel yacht]

Don't know, for me it works perfectly against 'top players' who have much better wall placements that you are actually forced to break or throw a proper molly then what you showed in the video. The hitbox isn't perfect but the way he placed it there is 100% a way to break it without spending anything

While I do think heartless is not in a proper state right now, I don't think this is a bug, and a lot of what you mentioned isn't correct.

Especially considering tech like nuke heartless is intended

[steel yacht]

Compared to another cheese card like mind blowing there is indeed far far less room to counter and more expensive

and the counters aren't obvious either, so on that part I will agree

think there was some talk around it, making heartless user even slower or taking more damage. Outside of simple value changes they could probably make explosives actually do something against the wall

And wall is a fairly "buggy" card in general so is the turret that has collision after being broken.

[steel yacht]

Counter card after heartless is played also possible, not saying it's very optimal as it can be played around at highest level but an option.

[lilac plinth]

I mean the big diff there is that you have a bigger environment to run around/ it's a 7 cost vs it being 4 with low commitment and required counter play

Is you get it on subway or theater ofc run it out

[steel yacht]

I think 6 cost

[lilac plinth]

Ah

Well still

[steel yacht]

When it comes to cost to 'counter' and consistency of those counter cards against it, i agree with you

but the rest not so much

[lilac plinth]

I'm just saying if im willing to commit to counter an overplayed strategy that isn't consistent and even those counter aren't consistent then idk

Like if there was a specific spot where the heat would go when it interacts with a wall

Thatd be interesting

[steel yacht]

I like to compare heartless to something like mind blowing

since they are both super cheesy and ran extremely often

[lilac plinth]

Mind blowing can be instant tho, heartwall is like

[steel yacht]

and with mind blow

in all fairness it is a timing based card

[lilac plinth]

A slow boring burn that yiu can't do a lot with

[steel yacht]

so even if you have counters in your hand you might not be able to use it, that's the difference

but those counters, are usually extremely cheap

and a lot of them

looking up and standing next to a wall also sort of makes up for the timing

[lilac plinth]

Ice wall, camera panning, tin man, log vanish, clipping the brain in a wall, painkiller in some instances

[steel yacht]

yeah this is where i said i agree

[lilac plinth]

What are the heartwall counters?

[steel yacht]

against heartless in general it's like

[lilac plinth]

Run, phantom bullets3

Molotov somewhat

Poison

[wispy hollow]

Actually glance at it to see if they placed it right

[lilac plinth]

Poison B

[wispy hollow]

5/10 times you can see it sticking out if they placed it wrong.

[steel yacht]

mobility/invisibility, phantom bullets, molotov 100%, counter card. They are indeed expensive and don't save you, I also think it's too much stalling

Also i am thinking of

Properly played heartless

Because from that footage like I said, you were 100% able to break it

and im sure you were also doing something wrong with the molotov

Also there is a interesting hide and seek dynamic

Wall yourself

[lilac plinth]

I didn't throw a Molly in that clip

[steel yacht]

Yeah you didn't need to throw a molly you just had to shoot it

We theory crafted heartless wall on island and many other maps

That's a horrible placement

[lilac plinth]

The thing is that the wall isn't a perfect hit box, I tried shooting it, trust me

[steel yacht]

You just need proper angle you were probably in an elevated position

if you are on the opposite of it you should always be able to break it

[lilac plinth]

You gotta believe me man, the placement doesn't need to be perfect, ive come at it from all angels because peeps have just watched me shoot the wall for a whole match while I see the clipping heart plain as day

[lilac plinth]

Like, I know I sound like an irate child in the op, but like, this is something I've sidelined multiple cards because every 3 star and champ runs it and I run into it 7 outta 10 matches

[steel yacht]

Not every 3 star and champ runs it lol

[steel yacht]

It doesn't need to be perfect, it has to be decent which is just not in that video

[steel yacht]

There are like only 3 players in the entire game who know how to properly use it lol

[lilac plinth]

Define "Properly" if you will

[steel yacht]

There are pixel perfect spots in which you are absolutely forced to either phantom bullet, molotov or break the wall / ice block

[lilac plinth]

Because while true few players do it "properly" doesn't stop all the others from constant attempts that can manifest "proper" results

It isn't consistent in anyway, and the players that do it "properly" are getting steep rewards with small counter play

[steel yacht]

Your post mentions higher tiers of ranked so I am talking about best use case properly

[lilac plinth]

Its typically who I play against and it's typically who has it

[steel yacht]

I already agreed with you that countering it is not that obvious for the average player and it usually ends in a net negative card quantity / cost wise

[lilac plinth]

Never see gold 1 or lower use it ya know

[steel yacht]

Are you playing only 1s?

[lilac plinth]

I know you do but that's only one part of this pie, that's why I'm reinstating it ya know?

Yes 1s

[steel yacht]

It's much stronger in 2s, I see low to high ranks use it everytime

[lilac plinth]

That also sounds like it sucks

[steel yacht]

i don't know, it doesn't really cause that much trouble for me

Because unless a player plays it perfectly it's just not that troublesome at top level

[lilac plinth]

Does your deck happen to counter it or do you just like, always find the spot?

[steel yacht]

I know most of the op spots it can be placed, so i can just phantom bullet prefire it in 1s

or counter card to not allow the wall

which is just an auto win

[lilac plinth]

Ig I can kill poison and molotov for phantom

[steel yacht]

My deck counters nuke heartless, yes

[lilac plinth]

They should REALLLLLY make Molly a 1 power card

[steel yacht]

I don't even play molotov, and i can afford to lose 1-2 rounds no problem if it's not worth the cost to try and win or bad rng

in 2s

[steel yacht]

considering sticky is 1 power, maybe

there is actaully a very viable way to use molly outside of just heartless

on a few maps

and consistent

[lilac plinth]

Do enlighten

Bahaha didn't mean the pun

[steel yacht]

There are certain lineups you can do

where the molotov covers the entire enemy spawn area

if you shoot it

[lilac plinth]

Mmmmm ic ic

Fair enuff

[steel yacht]

paired with no jump on a few maps

it's actually very annoying

[lilac plinth]

Locks down and corners?

[steel yacht]

what do you mean?

[lilac plinth]

It locks people down and corners them

[steel yacht]

It's literally the entire side of the map on some

Aham trucks

[placid cave]

i dont think that works

usually there's a bit of your model sticking out that is free to shoot

[steel yacht]

depends on location

there are a few 'safe spots'\

[placid cave]

show me

man wall is actually mega flexible and good

[wispy hollow]

Wall card my beloved.

[steel yacht]

top of subway, nuke pipes, top of theater, inside red truck so far

and in the gelato truck as well

[steel yacht]

extremely good

and there is also a cheese wall near the end of the rails on subway

but you can get easily hit

but i think if they are adding that teleport card

then it would be a straight counter

to such things

[steel yacht]

while you are not fully immune and can get exploded in some cases for example

it's still viable af imo