When breaking out of Ice Block, your gun will fire and you will lose ammo, but the bullet will not do anything. This isn't a big deal on faster firing weapons, but on slower weapons it is a larger problem since it can leave you vulnerable after a card that can already be a bit risky.
#The first shot out of Ice Block does nothing
amber island
cyan hawk
not fully sure if its intended or not, otherwise sitting in ice and just getting a headshot with a quick sniper would be crazy, but seeing how firing your weapons does bring up the ice block damage numbers, it might not be intended
amber island
You're pretty vulnerable to being headshot yourself, so its only a net negative like this atm
cyan hawk
You're pretty vulnerable to being headshot yourself, so its only a net negative ...
Thats assuming your only using ice block, your other cards are active mid ice block making it more of a combo piece, so if you really wanna take advantage, use it and if they reload, instantly go at them
woeful island
When breaking out of Ice Block, your gun will fire and you will lose ammo, but t...
it kind of intended when it sayes "shoot to break the ice"
its intended cus getting free headshot would be op
and any other weapons than sniper is fine to shoot afterwards
amber island
it affects certain weapons disproportionately which i find is the issue
amber island
oh, thanks for letting me know, developer of the game
woeful island
shooting is to break block not to get free headshots
just dont use it for too long with sniper
issue solved
woeful island
You're pretty vulnerable to being headshot yourself, so its only a net negative ...
only for sniper
amber island
does punchr still fire through it?
woeful island
no idea
katanas swing breaks the block and the same swing can hit people
thats definetly intended and its great
no objections
amber island
a card working inconsistently between weapons is not great
specifically if its a card that doesnt even have to do with affecting bullets at all
woeful island
specifically if its a card that doesnt even have to do with affecting bullets at...
its consistant, when your weapon is fired, your bullet breaks the ice
amber island
why are you pretending that that's the issue??
woeful island
? what is then
amber island
if every other weapon except for katana cant hit with the ice breaking shot
thats a consistency issue
woeful island
katana doesnt have bullets dude
amber island
because theres an outlier that makes no sense
amber island
its still a weapon
it's affected by bullet cards
you're derailing this conversation and making no points
woeful island
its a question of trading a shot projectile in order to break the ice so that yo wont get a free shot in long range if somebody is in line of sight of your ice block, that would be again op and that would force you enemy to hide from ice block. katana is a melee weapon so it breaks at the start of the swing and you can only hit with the same swing if the enemy is in close range
amber island
you're divining a lot of mechanics where it might not be intended.
woeful island
it's affected by bullet cards
there are no "bullet cards" the description on them say toy weapon does more dmg or your weapon has a poison effect
amber island
there are no "bullet cards" the description on them say toy weapon does more dmg...
and yet, they dont affect punchr
but do affect katana
woeful island
and yet, they dont affect punchr
i dont know if it does
woeful island
and yet, they dont affect punchr
did you test it
amber island
i know they dont
woeful island
and yet, they dont affect punchr
oh you talking aobut cards
explosions are a different mechanic
amber island
:|
gleaming bobcat
🔥 420 lol
woeful island
:|
the punch r creates explosions and we should be talking abuot ice block not weapons buff cards
amber island
why does katana get special treatment with ice block
when its a weapon card that is affected by normal buff cards
it likely isnt intended
woeful island
because its not a projectile, hitscan weapon
amber island
and is just a byproduct of how katana works
every weapon is a projectile in this game dude.
woeful island
every weapon is a projectile in this game dude.
what
woeful island
projectile means a separate object that travels seperate of you to the enemy
amber island
dont fuckin patronize to me
woeful island
and man its just because of balance that you wont get free long range shots
woeful island
dont fuckin patronize to me
im not
woeful island
i beg to differ greatly
and i have a different definition of a projectile
melee is tied to your own model and only hits close range
amber island
and you argue while being wrong. This game's weapons are all projectiles.
you can tie rounds with them.
woeful island
and you argue while being *wrong.* This game's weapons are all projectiles.
what is your definition of a projectile
woeful island
you can tie rounds with them.
so?
past hound
not being able to shoot out of ice defiantly isnt intended.
woeful island
past hound
idk why this is even an argument
amber island
wow even by the real defintion you're fuckin wrong.
woeful island
not being able to shoot out of ice defiantly isnt intended.
its about the first shot
is katana a gun?
woeful island
uhmm
past hound
its about the first shot
that's what i just said
amber island
you're arguing in circles without even understanding how games work janikut
in the game's code the katana isnt any different from the boira
or the boomstick
it is technically a gun
just technically a very very weird gun
woeful island
its a weapon
amber island
use occams razor here dude
would they: use the gun programming on a melee weapon to save dev time
or program an entirely new melee system
that one weapon uses
you're being fucking pedantic
woeful island
you're being fucking pedantic
im not being rude
woeful island
you're instigating an argument over terminology.
im having an argument
thats not rude
amber island
.......... YEAH?
woeful island
and im not using rude language
woeful island
yeah
cyan hawk
In fairness, the katana is a Very weird weapon and has different hitboxes depending on which animation swing is used, which could be concidered its own mechanics
woeful island
In fairness, the katana is a **Very** weird weapon and has different hitboxes de...
yes
amber island
In fairness, the katana is a **Very** weird weapon and has different hitboxes de...
i mean if we can just say whatever we want sure
woeful island
also getting a free first shot from ice block would be downrigh op
cyan hawk
i mean if we can just say whatever we want sure
?
woeful island
and would force people to hide from iceblock
which is mega bad desing wise
imagine sniper camping in ice block
you go shoot at it boom free headshot
katana hitting with the same swing doesnt matter cus yo can stay in range and melt iceblock
past hound
it's supposed to break when you press shoot, the reason you miss the 1st shot is probably bc the projectile hits your own iceblock hitbox when it tries to travel outwards when it's supposed to break beforehand, or just not hit it your own damn hitbox.
woeful island
it's supposed to break when you press shoot, the reason you miss the 1st shot is...
true
cyan hawk
Mhmm, it actually shows for a moment the iceblock damage if i remember correctly
past hound
if you agree than why are we agruing?
woeful island
it's supposed to break when you press shoot, the reason you miss the 1st shot is...
oh i agree
do you think it should be changed to get free shots form iceblock righ away?
i dont
woeful island
sometimes it wont hit the hitbox.
really?
amber island
holy fuck.
cyan hawk
I think its more along the lines of a debate on if it should stay a mechanic for the card for balance sake, since it becomes a game of who wants to wait longer until either the player in the block shoots, or the player waiting lets them get the shot
woeful island
sometimes it wont hit the hitbox.
i hadd it never not hit own ice as first shot
woeful island
I think its more along the lines of a debate on if it should stay a mechanic for...
exactly my man
amber island
dude.
past hound
i think it should be fixed, ice block is hard enough to use as is.
amber island
either NO weapon should go through ice block or EVERY weapon should
woeful island
I think its more along the lines of a debate on if it should stay a mechanic for...
but it would become like he said
past hound
also if it remains this way it makes it super inconsistant between weapons
woeful island
I think its more along the lines of a debate on if it should stay a mechanic for...
just hide from block and fall asleep
cyan hawk
The only thing that does also balance block is that it Does have a health bar
woeful island
also if it remains this way it makes it super inconsistant between weapons
i think its a question of range and katana not geing a bullet type weapon
amber island
it IS a bullet weapon.
woeful island
The only thing that does also balance block is that it **Does** have a health ba...
there would be no poin in shooting ice block if your opponent will get free hit righ away
amber island
the only non-bullet weapon is punchr.
past hound
amber island
because bullet cards dont affect it.
But they affect katana.
it is, for all intents and purposes of the game, a gun.
that fires bullets.
woeful island
it is, for all intents and purposes of the game, a gun.
so punch r is not a gun
amber island
its not affected by poison bullets, steel bullets, or vampire bullets.
it is affected by bigger explosions.
woeful island
its not affected by poison bullets, steel bullets, or vampire bullets.
for balance reasons
amber island
:|
past hound
amber island
or... get this. the more reasonable assumption that it was programmed as something that shoots grenades..!
because that's already
a function
in the game.
as opposed to melee
which ONE weapon uses.
cyan hawk
So, becomes the question. Should Ice block be useful for all weapons? The answer in the long run usually should be no, but should interact properly with all intend mechanics. Since its a trade off for using the card and getting a moments reprise. Of course this should also include that you can break out of ice whenever with a shot but also not die to weird interactions like Punch explosions. Every card should find its own playstyles, and the fact ice block allows you to use any items means it has its own use cases already to have fun with and shouldnt be an all around "Get out of danger free card"
past hound
ok lets not talk about what guns can shoot out of it more consistently, this is more about when it blocks the shot that isnt intended.
doesnt matter what guns do or dont more often.
amber island
ruki, i'd like to confirm or deny if punchr's first shot gets eaten by ice block.
because if doesnt, then it's unintended that katana doesnt too.
cyan hawk
I would like to know that, its an interaction i havent tested myself
past hound
i dont think it does but we can check
woeful island
wouldnt it be inconistant and weird that at the start of swing ice breaks and when then the same animation goes through a player and does no dmg
amber island
wouldnt it be inconistant and weird that at the start of swing ice breaks and wh...
you mean like uh... shooting a gun?
which is also weird because it fires? and makes a sound?
cyan hawk
So, for sword and puncher we shoud check its interactions with Ice block. All in agreement?
amber island
im taking janikuts word that it goes through ice block.
but i will test it with ruki
because janikut just makes up shit
woeful island
i dont think its inconsistant, the start of swing breaks the ice and the end of swing is still is functuional
possible that start hitboxes of a swing are nullified but the next hitboxes of the same swing are functional
amber island
why wouldnt the boomstick fire 9/10ths of its pellets then?
cyan hawk
I can think of why
Since the shot spawns all projectiles at once, the iceblock can eat them all before despawning on the next frame, as for the swords animation, its hit boxes spawn over a period of time, allowing it to function "properly"
woeful island
heres consistently worded, first dmg dealing hitboxes of a weapon are nullified that go to break the iceblock
amber island
out of every card to not be affected by Ice Block, Katana is the LEAST important.
Because it swings so fast.
You'd be inputting a second swing before your first ice breaker swing would even matter.
for 'balance' it makes NO sense.
woeful island
for 'balance' it makes NO sense.
im advocating so thta ice sniper camp playstyle would be op and its not funtional rn for balance
amber island
its already balanced out by like
being able to shoot the person back..?
because they're entirely stationary?
if your opponent is standing still and you get a shot on them its clearly not an issue with ice block
woeful island
again the one in iceblock gettign a free 100 dmg first in not balanced out
woeful island
im saying its intentional because of balance
amber island
and you're arguing an entirely different thing
that i do not care about
that this thread
is not about
cyan hawk
So, i do wanna say this before anything else can be said that a change like this can affect gameplay. Ice block eating the first show is a bug. How does the devs go about it?
amber island
@past hound let me know if you draw punchr
woeful island
So, i do wanna say this before anything else can be said that a change like this...
we dunno
amber island
katana does go through ice block
past hound
didnt draw any
past hound
katana does go through ice block
it does
woeful island
but my theory is its not a bug that first projectile fired out of a gun is consumed by iceblock breaking
amber island
but my theory is its not a bug that first projectile fired out of a gun is consu...
boomstick
all of its pellets are eaten
cyan hawk
That does support my theory i said earlier
amber island
i tested katana with ruki
cyan hawk
Since the shot spawns all projectiles at once, the iceblock can eat them all bef...
This one
amber island
i know pretty much how its hitbox works
woeful island
all of its pellets are eaten
because the iceblock cant go away in a picosecond
past hound
still didnt get it
woeful island
ice it takes time to go away and because all pellets are fired at the same time and it consumes them all
past hound
got it
amber island
okay
woeful island
you're like. clearly not talking from a place of knowledge
again rude
please talk respectful
cyan hawk
That i can say is a result of how it works
past hound
lets see if we can get anything else to go through
amber island
i think katana and punchr are the only ones
past hound
well test
cyan hawk
stop assuming shit
Excuse me for using the information we have gathered and knowledge of how the games work to draw conclusions on weaponse we tested
woeful island
lets see if we can get anything else to go through
how did it work
amber island
Excuse me for using the information we have gathered and knowledge of how the ga...
im not even talking about you
you have no stake in this and arent the problem
cyan hawk
I mean, im here to learn and discuses why things are the way they are in the game
woeful island
did it explose at the place od icebloc or went through long range like a normal shot
woeful island
I mean, im here to learn and discuses why things are the way they are in the gam...
same
amber island
and yeah, boomstick does a flat 11 damage to ice block
amber island
did it explose at the place od icebloc or went through long range like a normal ...
long range shot
completely normal
to be expected from a weapon that's likely using code from bomb cards
woeful island
so yeah it uses different code
woeful island
to be expected from a weapon that's likely using code from bomb cards
makes ssense bullet buffs dont affect it
@past hound can you test out katana
woeful island
i remember the end of swing doing dmg
amber island
since i know how katana works
it spawns a bunch of like
static projectiles
roughly where the game thinks the katana should be hitting
woeful island
static projectiles
static hitboxes
past hound
boomstick blocked every pellet
cyan hawk
The puncher most likely "shoots" a bullet of sorts, but never lasts long enough since then the real projectile being the weapons bombs are the main highlight, which would explain alot on the flat 11 damage to the ice block
amber island
but you're right in that it doesnt spawn them all at the same time, jan.
so ive block's bullet eating doesnt function properly
cyan hawk
then, iceblock being unaffected by bombs thrown doesnt interact with the main projectile of the puncher
past hound
lemme test something with phantom bullets actually, if my theroy is right phantom should let me shoot through it
woeful island
lemme test something with phantom bullets actually, if my theroy is right phanto...
yeah
cyan hawk
Ok, now thats an interaction i wanna hear about
amber island
lemme test something with phantom bullets actually, if my theroy is right phanto...
Shoot through how?
like through a rival's or your own?
amber island
ill grab phantom too
woeful island
but you're right in that it doesnt spawn them all at the same time, jan.
hey hey i dont mind anything and not letting katana dmg, (allthoug a swing going throug a person and not doing dmg is inconsistant too) but i dont want to see sniper iceblock campers
amber island
hey hey i dont mind anything and not letting katana dmg, (allthoug a swing going...
thats the whole point, is that it's inconsistent.
cyan hawk
Firstly, if you use phantom vs ice block, can you shoot them while they are in there. And in another case, if you use ice block and phantom, can you properly shoot through the ice block and damage the person your aiming at?
past hound
i have phantom rn
past hound
not like this silly
woeful island
I'm NOT interested in the balance portion,
i think balance is important anything regarding card functions
amber island
i think balance is important anything regarding card functions
that is a discussion for another thread
right now i am PURELY interested in the mechanics.
cyan hawk
Fair enough
past hound
que again
woeful island
fair i guess
amber island
that has been the whole point of this thread
i genuinely do not care about the balance
cyan hawk
A single patch can change how a mechanic works, but seeing how it works right now is always an exciting thing. Trust me, i played dead by daylight and boy was that full of jank
amber island
OH MY GOD?
cyan hawk
Also, dumb question, does phantom also shoot through people you shoot?
woeful island
Also, dumb question, does phantom also shoot through people you shoot?
yes
past hound
phantom lets you shoot out of it
woeful island
yeah
cyan hawk
As in, hitting 2 people with one shot
woeful island
goes well with arcades theory
woeful island
phantom bullets fucking ignores ice block's bullet eating
also now its a fun niche tactic
thats cool
past hound
you can bodyblock bullets but phantom lets you collat, so it makes sense.
woeful island
yeah
cyan hawk
Thats honestly awesome and makes alot of sense
past hound
phantom bullets are okay, i actually took it out of my deck bc the usecases are pretty niche
woeful island
i mean this niche only works well with sniper and shotgun
amber island
i mean this niche only works well with sniper and shotgun
and laika
so 3 of the best weapons
cyan hawk
But i can say this, this tells me exactly how Phantom bullets work
cyan hawk
Phantom bullets prevents bullets from disappearing after being shot, either by hitting an object, or an player
amber island
i run ice block in every deck jan.
woeful island
nice
amber island
it's not bad it's buggy
cyan hawk
Ok but one last thing, can you hit ice block players with phantom bullets?
woeful island
it's not bad it's buggy
ithink its a healthy bug
amber island
ice block disables your hitbox entirely
woeful island
a tech
amber island
im fairly certain yeah
cyan hawk
I think that means ice block just makes you invulnerable to most forms of damage while its active
Havent tested heartless damage
amber island
heartless does not tick down in ice block
woeful island
but nikki!
it explodes to iceblock
Its consistant!
punch r s pellet explodes and hit the iceblock
when fired
amber island
it goes through,
woeful island
and its consisntant with phantom
cus all bullets jut get hit to iceblocks entity
and phantom makes you go through walls and entities
woeful island
it goes *through,*
ask ruki
cyan hawk
Hmm, maybe it was one of those weird cases like Ruki has had where ice block doesnt eat the projectiles
amber island
punchr does not get eaten from ice block like every other weapon should
past hound
punch r s pellet explodes and hit the iceblock
the projeile fires outward and doesnt stop at the ice.
woeful island
oh i got you wrong when you dmd me
woeful island
punchr does not get eaten from ice block like every other weapon should
but thing its not about eating the projectile its about the projectile spawning and hitting the iceblocks entity
amber island
it doesnt
woeful island
so that phantom bullets going through makes sense
amber island
any shot breaks ice block
woeful island
any shot breaks ice block
at the same time of hitting it
woeful island
yes so phantom makes sence
and katana and punch r are not hitscan based weapons, katana animation based and punchr projectile based so they go through
and all hitscan based bullets dont
did we crack the code now?
amber island
why do you insist katana is so different
its clearly just like
spawning a spread of projectiles sequentially
woeful island
its not hitscan, its animation based
amber island
ok im done
woeful island
and its projectiles go through walls
katana swings go through walls
adn yes that should be fixed
like i can hit through any wall with katana
so its consistant taking in mind that katana has a bug that lets it swing and hit through walls
btw im genuenly not dissing nikki
just telling what my theories are respectfully
id fix iceblock by just having katana swing break the ice at the end of the swing
past hound
when fired
they dont i just told you this.
past hound
it's ok Janikut, we were just saying fix it to be consistant, ether it blocks everything or it blocks nothing.