#Bombs Need a Nerf

193 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

verbal ibex
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Explosives in general are far too strong in this game. It leads people to main Lars because of his passive, that 90% reduction is tempting only because it prevents being instagibbed from the 170 damage bombs. Sticky Bomb, Bomb, and especially Bomb Belt are far too tempting cards for a couple reasons.

The first reason is that 2 of those cards are 1 cost, Bomb Belt being 2 cost. The low cost just means that you'll find these cards often in many decks regardless of the build. I think the biggest issue is that these low cost cards have the potential to instantly kill players unmodified by other cards.

If all bombs in general at maximum level had 50-100 damage, they would still be good cards even though they no longer had the potential to kill instantly. If a person wanted to instantly kill someone, they would need to invest more than a single card, like using 'Bigger Explosions'.

The point is to allow fights to be fights, a good bomb ends the round. Drawing into those bombs happens frequently in back to back matches. A bomb ending multiple rounds in multiple matches adds up. Unlike other high-cost powerful combos, such as Heartless + Nuke or Mind Blowing + Bullet Time, a bomb is a 1 card kill. Yes, it's not a guaranteed kill, but neither is Mind Blowing or Heartless and it costs less to put Bomb, Sticky, & Bomb Belt in a deck than those two card combos.

Lars is an issue people commonly complain about in this thread and to their point, Lars is intertwined with explosives. If bombs went down to 50-100, Lars could have a hefty nerf. The big complaint is that Lars is the only character that shuts down a person's playstyle, bomb builds simply fail against Lars. A nerf to both Lars and Bombs would be healthier in the long run than to separate their nerfs.

Edit: Updated some minor spelling errors
Edit: Added 2 points I made throughout the thread.

obsidian cloak
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Yes, absolutely. I honestly think that bombs need balancing more than anything else right now.

vital beacon
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Also with the 90% decrease being a natural just straight counter without being something that's more geared towards like a side counter (as in maybe some kind of deflection or faster movement speed aroudn explosives, it doesn't really allow for proper coutnerplay when one stratagy is just so obvious.

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Also maybe grenade markers would be a really big help to folks. Y'know the ones where you see the indicator on screen?

verbal ibex
fallow snow
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Grenade markers are a great idea (as long as landmines don't get them), anything that improves readability is good.

fallow snow
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If they had a smaller AOE or less damage, that'd still make them useful in comparison to the current singular bomb card.

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With that new bomb card; someone could pop it so that they throw a bomb on every card use.. then pop bomb belt for like 8 bombs total without much difficulty.

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If we assume the opponent is lars with 90% resist, that's gonna be death 100% of the time. OR if the your lars, then that person basically just wasted 2 high cost cards.

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^ This is with the current damage system.

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~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
I think the bomb card, land-mine and sticky bomb should do like around 80 - 100 damage. Then anything with multi-bombs such as bomb belt should have a reduced damage near like 50 - 60.

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One idea I had for a lars change was making it so his coat can absorb a certain amount of damage from bombs before it breaks and he can't avoid it.

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IE: Lars takes a full force mine for 100 HP and his coat has a block point of 80 HP, his coat is then ruptured and his health is lowered by 20 HP as the remainder.

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Sorta like armor.

verbal ibex
lament monolith
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Wait so bombs gained from bomb belt dont do reduced damage?

verbal ibex
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I'm pretty sure the bombs from bomb belt are just level 1 versions of 'Bomb', which still has a maximum of 150 damage according to wiki. 4 Bombs for 1 card is insane though

urban snow
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bombs are only powerful in the hands of experienced players, some use it to hold off areas

errant flicker
urban snow
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you're acting like titan doesnt exist

errant flicker
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I don't see how titan existing invalidates my point. Titan is its own problem

urban snow
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literally little lars counters bombs

vital beacon
urban snow
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i've had zero issues with bombs

vital beacon
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As Lars?

urban snow
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i never touched lars

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he feels so cheap

verbal ibex
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I think Lars is the way he is, because of the larger problem that people don't want to deal with bombs or bomb spam. A character whose passive exists to counter a specific strategy.
I think it's more of an issue with the bombs themselves, if they weren't so inherently strong then Lars wouldn't be as much of an issue that he currently is.

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Lars is the only character in the game that counters cards in a deck by existing. No other character does that, no other character just makes someone's hand useless.
I think Lars needs the nerf, but alongside that nerf the bombs need to as well because bomb spam and bombs are strong. Shooting a bomb next to someone shouldn't be doing 153 damage just because they didn't realize it was happening in the half second it took to do.

errant flicker
urban snow
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And the whole reason why i dont play the game now is because titan has a high pickrate it renders some matches unplayable, so i dont get much matches to really see the truth of how bombs are so overpowered

errant flicker
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then why are you trying to argue for the opposite?

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This discussion isn't about titan, it's about bombs one-shotting people and creating unfun gameplay experiences

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A game can have multiple balance issues at the same time - just because titan is also broken doesn't automatically make bombs fine - they are both problems

errant flicker
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It's as you said, Lars being as ubiquiti#ous as it is is a symptom of bombs being busted

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The bombs should probably deal 75 at max. Anything above that is probably too much

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Rounds should never be decided by a player at 20 health one-shotting a player from 150

verbal ibex
errant flicker
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I wholeheartedly agree

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If anything, I implore the devs to look at other card games that have tried to nerf around certain problems - it never works and in a lot of situations can make the offending strategy even better

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Nerfing little lars would make the bombs even better than they already are

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hell, if you nerf the bombs, there's a chance lars wouldn't be good anymore

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but i don't think that's a risk worth taking, because even if you nerf the bombs to 75 damage a piece at max level they'd still be ubiquitous because of their inherent utility as a zoning tool

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characters being inherent hard-counters to card-based strategies should never be a thing

sick crane
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the bomb damage isn't really the issue as much as shoot-to-detonate imo

obsidian cloak
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Both are big issues

sick crane
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well the bombs could do 99999 damage but if they always lasted their max fuse time the kills they would get would be severely less

obsidian cloak
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They’d also get severely less kills if they did 80 damage but could still be shot

errant flicker
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^^^ they would also feel more fair!

verbal ibex
winged axle
errant flicker
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Thick skin is base 50% btw i believe

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But yes, 'tis broken

winged axle
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Had to boot up FvF to check, you are correct

obsidian cloak
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Even at its max of 80% that's still, well, lower than lars' 90%

winged axle
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And requires you to pull 9 cards in random packs

shut forum
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Bombs and lars need a nerf

fallow snow
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I still like the idea of lars having bomb-proof armor as an additional HP pool.

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Basically he can take 100hp worth of bomb damage before he starts taking it normally.

verbal ibex
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Recently I learned that the bombs from 'Bomb Lover' do 30 damage each. Even though this isn't a Lars specific thread, but a bomb related thread, I think Lars' passive could be changed to get a 30 damage bomb card each round. Similar to Duck Anderson's card related passive.
It would stop people from throwing bombs directly at their feet when they're next to an enemy to get cheap kills alongside with getting the playerbase to stop maining him solely for the resistance.

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More of a side note since I still believe they need to update the bomb problem with the game.

tardy moss
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If the game would have some better visualization of bombs and damage sources, it would already help a bunch. Some games have a red grenade indicator showing the direction of a grenade, which is near you. Part of why bombs are so problematic is that sometimes you don't even see them.

But yeah, a slight damage reduction would probably make sense. Also remove one bomb from bomb belt, so it gives you a maximum of 3 bombs when maxed.

fallow snow
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I think bomb belt should just do less damage instead of being x4 tier 1 bombs.

verbal ibex
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Bumping the thread. Haven't played the new update yet, but I like hearing that Titan feels more fair with simple reduction nerf. Hoping the same will be true for bombs and Lars

urban snow
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i just want lars nerfed so self damage is reduced ngl

fallow snow
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Titan is less frustrating now, still not always great but we cope.

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The changes to heartless seem a bit rough imo.

verbal ibex
# urban snow i just want lars nerfed so self damage is reduced ngl

Yeah.. Lars being able to throw bombs at his feet to kill an opponent is pretty bad. I think it's crazier that his passive is stronger than explosive resistance at max level. If his passive was down to 30%, it'd be great.
Like if bomb does 100 damage at most, Lars taking 70 damage would def stop them doing it so often.

verbal ibex
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Obligatory Bump

errant flicker
verbal ibex
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Bumping again. I really want them to lower the damage of bombs someday.

shell flame
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little lars damage resistance nerf + bombs nerf

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id love that

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the adjustment would be increase bomb area/falloff + increase minimum damage

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so bombs are more about consistency than raw damage output

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from 90-180 to 30-80, increase area of damage by 50%~
little lars bomb resistance from 90% to 60%

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or they nerf the bomb levels overall so they don't become powercreeped.

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its really hard to balance without the winrate numbers

red berry
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if bombs werent an instawin, lars being so strong against them wouldnt even feel so bad

hollow peak
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I main Lars because of two reasons only, I love his design and bomb builds can be incredibly fun. while I wouldnt say bombs are OP seeing as personally even without Lars I dont die to them often, I do agree they need to be tweeked a bit.

fallow snow
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I find it interesting that no one really hardcore disagrees with the idea of bombs/explosions being strong, it's moreso how to change them.

verbal ibex
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I think everyone kinda agrees with the idea that Bombs need to be changed. I propose the nerf to damage because it's the easiest solution but also might be the best one. I know before I made this thread, some people were saying the radius needing nerfing or the ability to shoot the bombs need to be removed.
I think shooting the bombs is fun, I think it can remain, I think radius is good, any smaller could solve bomb spam but then the ability to instantly KO is there.

I genuinely find that reducing bomb damage to say.. 40-80 damage would still be fine. It'd be more than my first offer, but I think bombs shouldn't be completely nerfed to the ground. 'Bomb Lover' bombs do 30 damage at max rank with a cost of 3. Everyone outside of bomb builds avoids it. I want to avoid overtuning bombs to being useless because I enjoy using bombs as well.

verbal ibex
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Bumping in hopes that the next balance change will make this happen 🙏

urban snow
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If bombs are changing change lars as well

verbal ibex
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I am once again asking for the bombs to be nerfed. ⬇️ 💣 💥

shut forum
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And i once again agree with you

winter trellis
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Nerf bombs! not lars! nerf bombs! not lars!

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Join the chant

obsidian cloak
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Nah

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Both need nerfs.

shut forum
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if bombs get nerfed, so will be lars

slim comet
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Lars ability allows him to be super braindead

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Def should nerf him

winter trellis
verbal ibex
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Lars is intertwined with bombs, since their passive scales with the damage of bombs.
I think Lars could go down to 20%, it'd make things a lot smoother. A bomb nerf with the numbers I propose, would do 80 damage to them at the center, and 40 damage at the edge of the radius. I think that'd be fair considering that characters with percentage passives don't go too overboard, like Spike with that 8% damage boost.

slim comet
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Either buff all characters passives or nerf lars

errant flicker
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Buffing everything around a broken mechanic is the absolute worst way to do balance

winter trellis
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exactly

split flicker
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bombs are kinda dumb rn

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I would rather shoot my enemy than throw a bomb

winter trellis
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true

urban snow
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bombs are just fun target practice

shell flame
verbal ibex
# slim comet Either buff all characters passives or nerf lars

Nah, the game is pretty balanced. The thing I'm worried about is bombs, because they are overly strong compared to most other cards. Compared to the cost, they are significantly stronger. To reiterate, I don't want a nerf in the form of upping cost, cost is not the issue, cost is just part of why we see the issue so often. Bombs just need a damage nerf to stop the main issue of being one hit kill cards.

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The player doesn't need to work or do any damage other than using a single well placed bomb to win a round. And they can potentially do it three times in a row if they're good with their cards. You could argue it's skill that they win 3 rounds in a row with only bombs, I'd say sure, but 1 card shouldn't be the only reason they won. If bombs did 100 damage, they would still have to land a few body shots, there would be more of a fight involved.

slim comet
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One is more desirable than the others

verbal ibex
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Bumping in hopes the update this month will do something about the bombs

verbal ibex
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Maybe the final bump. I do appreciate that the potato bomb doesn't do extreme amounts of damage like other bombs, but I feel like that's how all the bombs should be at.

verbal ibex
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Going to bump this one last time, heard that hot potato does 100 damage on max and I love it. We need more explosives to be maxed at that damage. Throwing bombs through a smoke to do 160 on an unsuspecting friend isn't nearly as fun as when they survive a hot potato to continue the fight. Bombs need the nerf.

twilit yacht
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Mind Blown (4 cost) + Bullet Time (2 cost) does 150 per shot and has tons of counter play options (nuke, ice block, looking away and down, etc)
Bomb Belt (2 cost) essentially gives you the value of the former combo packaged together, for a third of the total cost, FOUR times.

TLDR; bomb belt is the biggest offender in terms of value to cost balance.

winter trellis
vale idol
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i agree, nerf explosives (hot potato can stay tho)

winter trellis
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Very much so

urban snow
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people who want to nerf bombs in fvf when they watch a live hand grenade, an explosive no bigger than a man's hand, turn someone into a lego character in one explosion

crimson tartan
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the end may surprise you!

winter trellis
vale idol
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like ~50 should be good

winter trellis
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So true

twilit yacht
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Did you know even a single gun shot wound can be fatal 🤓 all guns should be one shot kill 👆

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Let’s balance a game about anthropomorphic animals on realism 🤓

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Sorry but that is literally straw manning

crimson tartan
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Actually in most cases a lot of areas shot with a pistol could be livable, especially if there is some form of medical attention that is confident enough to mend the wound (not including centermass, head, or heart shots)
This can extend to a rifle but if a human is using a rifle in such a dangerous situation they probably have trained with it enough to only aim for vitals soo-

urban snow
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its a joke

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just like how people are treating bombs being an issue not like there's some serious bugs the devs need to work on most importantly

twilit yacht
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Balancing and bug fixing can happen simultaneously and aren’t mutually exclusive 🤯

urban snow
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what im saying is the balance of bombs is less important imo, bombs are bombs

crimson tartan
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Bombs are supposed to be threats

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I think lars should be the reworked or nerfed one, the only thing i see a problem with bombs is the fact that the radius lines are incorrect

urban snow
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it has roblox registration, you see the player is nowhere near you and next you know you're dead to that player or the player crossed the finish line before you did

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i tried it with a friend who had self destruct, i was basically a cat turret away from the edge of the radius ( if that measurement makes sense ) and i still died to it

crimson tartan
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Well then it just needs to be fixed there, not the damage, it just has to be reactable

twilit yacht
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And it’s not uncommon for a balance patch to address multiple issues

crimson tartan
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Well yeah now that it's also a bug esque problem they could easily work on it with more bug patches

twilit yacht
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Balancing / bugs are often times addressed together , again they aren’t mutually exclusive.

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It’s not and *and now * situation

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What I mean is , Them balancing this wouldn’t detract from this thing you guys think is more important

crimson tartan
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Well i mean yeah it technically does, time wise, that's what i meant, im not saying multitasking a patch is impossible but it still takes up time

twilit yacht
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not in a meaningful way. but yeah, "technically"

crimson tartan
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actually very much in a meaningful way that's like a day or 2 of someone playtesting to see the perfect radius and damage to rebalance an entire type of damage... now that im saying it out loud probably more

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im not saying im against it, but falling through maps is a bit... yknow?

twilit yacht
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Okay they can fix your issue first, then the bombs; and then the balance patch that actually addresses those changes will come out and they'll be changed at the same time, because very seldom do these patches address one thing unless it's a hot-fix.

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ie; this is their last change log:
Fixed: if nuke is played at the end of a round, players can spawn on the nuke map when the next round starts
Fixed: players can pass through the subway train doors
Fixed: Karrotov inflicts x2 damage on 1v1 and 4x damage on 2v2
Fixed: Kill tab nicknames don't have the correct team colors
Fixed: Spectator free-cam has no boundaries when flying around
Fixed: Ice Block breaks instantly on top of some of the cars in Trucks
Fixed: Bear trap breaks instantly when put on top of some of the cards in Trucks
Fixed: Small gap on the floor, between the bathroom and the shooting range stairs in Hub
Fixed: Quests notification not resetting properly
Fixed: Katana animation breaks after a while, only doing the horizontal cut
Fixed: Barbed Cards overlay not always appears when the affected rival uses a card

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so saying they can't possibly have time to balance bombs or that it would severely slow things down is just not true.

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or the first change log:
Fixed: Cash's ring floating over hand
Fixed: Bullet decals stop appearing after a while
Fixed: Mines stop working after being used a few times
Fixed: "Small Head" French descriptions were in Spanish
Fixed: "Easy Target" quest description didn't show the real headshot count needed

Balancing
Punch-R damage reduced by 15%

they miraculouly had time to balance the punch-r and still put out bug fixes

crimson tartan
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yknow i would answer this in a nice and informative answer but after this morning im just going to say fine and leave it there, just ruin my favorite card because people are using it as a free win card

lethal lark
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There's no reason not to put all the bombs in a deck because they can single handedly win rounds. Not only do they win round by themselves, they also allow you to keep all over cards for future rounds. There's no combo here, you press a button, shoot and your opponent instantly dies. What's even the point of the explosion damage increase card when they die instantly anyways.
Bombs would still be fine at 50-80hp. That's 1/3-1/2 of the enemy health for a successful shot that also creates area denial on top. This is already insane value for a single card use. Killing your opponent instantly is ridiculous.

winter trellis
orchid cypress
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I kind of agree that the issue is more with characters like lars than bombs themselves, although they should defo be changed somewhat. When there are cards like Mind Blowing, and combos like hot potato and barbed and heartless and nuke, it's hard to be justify bombs being OP. (Although I hope to see said cards changed).
I think the cheap bombs should be nerfed damage wise and the more expensive ones should get a somewhat reduced explosion radius, but being able to oneshot with a good throw and clean shot is something that should be rewarded. Maybe a new card could be added that doesn't explode if it has touched the ground, but has the same damage/explosion radius as the ones in the game currently have.

twilit yacht
twilit yacht
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like you said there are combos with mind blowing, namely bullet time. That's a SIX COST combo, bomb belt is a 2 cost

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big power discrepency

verbal ibex
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I made an edit to the main post since I saw a lot of recent activity in this thread. Just reiterating some stuff that's already been said since it's a little buried. I hope to see bombs being addressed in the next big patch this Tuesday.

shell flame
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it was nerfed

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your dreams came true

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as was I

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now lars is even more broken agaisnt bombs, if people still use it that is

verbal ibex
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We did it gang!!! crikPog

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I'm happy the nerf finally became true! I know bombs are still great, so I'll continue using them. Just very glad to not have games over so soon because of them ^^

twilit yacht
errant flicker
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REJOICE

winter trellis
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bomb dmg against lars was already insignificant

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every one was already using bomb cards only for counter against lars

vale idol
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so guys we did it

winter trellis
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The war is not over

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Keep fighting lads

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We need to get self destruct and potato nerfed

vale idol
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agreed

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SDD really shouldnt insta-kill

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i would be happy if it get the bomb damage and a range decrease

winter trellis
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Nah its could still oneshot

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Just range decrease or manual button removal

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I think it would be a fun card without manual button

vale idol
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huh i didnt think of the button

winter trellis
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Just explode when you die

vale idol
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no more manual rage quitting lmao

winter trellis
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Ye speed into spawn to manual explode 2 people

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Its still good card some times enemies wont want to shoot you

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While you will

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Would eliminate most frustration about the card and promote skillful counterplay

vale idol
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SDD profaner has to be the dumbest thing ive thought of

winter trellis
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It is

dense scroll