Misc Chat

[eager parrot]

it's done on purpose this way, just like the way US passes laws in huge omnibus bills nobody in congress really reads other than the sponsors and the donors and some of the staff lol

[near jetty]

skill issue I take my time

[eager parrot]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/09/calif-gov-vetoes-attempt-to-require-new-privacy-option-in-browsers-and-oses/

And even the "best" of the democrats and very possible 2028 presidential candidates are snakes

bastard.

just saw that headline

[blazing depot]

If Kamala wins he ain't getting the 28 ticket

[eager parrot]

That's true.

People in California generally don't like him despite voting for him because they automatically vote democrat overwhelmingly (and the GOP there are terrible per usual)

[near jetty]

it's time for the midwest to take over the demoncrap party

[trim flicker]

It be like that

[eager parrot]

I support this, midwest will transform the democrats

maybe Ohio will go back to being a relevant swing state

[blazing depot]

While we're daydreaming, can we just get rid of the electorate college instead

[near jetty]

sure

[marsh oracle]

demoncrap is a better dunk name than "democrat party" tbh

trademark that now or trump is gonna yoink it

[blazing depot]

Nah, Trump just found out about 's

It'll be a while before he gets to something like that

[half heath]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1fp6c98/the_real_election_fraud/

thoughts? I didn't look into any of it but shady as hell if accurate

btw this is also the type of content on tiktok I refer to when I say, tiktok as a medium can actually be good for creating awareness or informing ppl. Again though I didn't really look into it

[marsh oracle]

thats pretty much the jan 6th playbook with more prep time

create enough confusion and chaos in the normal electoral college process to come in with some "cutting edge legal theory" and try to pick the result

[eager parrot]

When you adamantly and genuinely seem to believe that the election was stolen by the other side last time, then you start taking actions to steal it yourself for real this time.

It's exactly what they are doing and have been doing with 4 years of prep.

[marsh oracle]

oh btw if harris wins immediately the next day trump will call on her to recuse herself from certifying the result of the election

that was pences job last time and now it would be harris'

[half heath]

Man it's crazy when I think about it because it feels like morally bankrupt ppl always have an edge over ppl who try to do things the right way. Like how do they have so many people who so clearly understand how to manipulate rules "seemingly legally" since they aren't getting punished for it. Like if Trump really pulls it off seems like US lost it's way majorly.

[marsh oracle]

i think the scariest part is that he has already tried it and hes still a coinflip away from winning again lol

[half heath]

Like the birth certificate matching the ID thing to make women voters unable to vote because they took their husbands names is so slimy. I'm glad it was shut down but the fact it can go so far

[marsh oracle]

to some degree this is a reflection of the electorate

[trim flicker]

It's easier to break those laws (or just work within the confines of the law to fuck with it) than it is to punish the powerful people manipulating them, takes a lot of time and resources to open an investigation process and legally prove that they're deliberately tipping the scales in their favor

[marsh oracle]

70% of reps think the election was stolen

[trim flicker]

And until that even starts happening the elections are probably over lol

[half heath]

I can't even begin to think how you'd go about fixing the broken system realistically

[blazing depot]

I mean, they don't actually think that, but it is a useful narrative to make the voters think that

[marsh oracle]

no by reps i mean registered republicans

[blazing depot]

The behind closed doors we occasionally see is always very revealing regarding whatever reps actually think

[marsh oracle]

not party officials

[blazing depot]

Ah, ok fair then

[marsh oracle]

and when youre already at that point

your democracy is already on the brink

cause how do you restore that trust with the current media landscape

[half heath]

Honestly this type of stuff makes me think of the French revolution. But I also know why that can't happen again. Honestly people in US are being exploited but given just enough to not go over the edge it seems.

[eager parrot]

Can't it?

French had like 6-8 revolutions after

they like to spin around a lot

[blazing depot]

I feel like you really don't want that kinda thing to happen

[near jetty]

if revolution then likely no iPhone and hot chip : (

[eager parrot]

True, but we get a lot of revolutions around the world seemingly

[half heath]

yea its gonna create a lot of issues before it's fixed

[eager parrot]

sometimes when the system is too entrenched, you can't progressively and slowly fix its issues without rooting out the core

I still genuinely believe the US system is too robust to be ruined by one dictator wannabe and it self corrects over 20-50-100 year cycles, but that's just me

[blazing depot]

lbr, any real "revolution" / civil war in the US would just destroy the country in currentday

[eager parrot]

not saying you have to have guillotines in the steps of the capitol or anything to fix things, you just need to shake things up enough for there to be real change.

[near jetty]

ahh Bernie type revolution not Lenin

[eager parrot]

well they're already starting to signal and foreshadow for it in the media

so it seems they want one

those at the top

[marsh oracle]

at the top of what

[eager parrot]

the food chain, the money supply, the military industrial complex, the corporate big dogs, and even some of the politicians who are stuck in a standstill

and let's not kid ourselves, there's a sizeable portion of the population who is itching for one too

[half heath]

Idk feels like the damage that's being done currently is planning for 50-100 years as well if you think about it. Like when did they start gutting education funding in some US states. A lot of the ppl who are easily misled are poorly educated.

[eager parrot]

all it takes is 3-10% of the people.

[eager parrot]

education funding was being gutted during reagan into clinton era already

this is just the long-term results of those steps we're seeing today

[half heath]

I don't see how that can ever work since a corrupt government can offer the ppl at the top way more than helping fix it

[blazing depot]

That's loudmouths who say they are, but the second anything happens they'll just cower in the corner of their trailer and wonder how things could possibly have gone so wrong

[eager parrot]

it's a two way exchange there, they give to the politicians, politicians twist the governmental procedures and give back to those donors what they want

[marsh oracle]

not sure why we need to invoke some shadow government type stuff when trump is one bad week away from calling for civil war himself

[half heath]

yea, and they continue to add on to it, it's seems since they want ppl to birth children in disadvantaged situations

[eager parrot]

maybe, but around 30-35% of the US population has made it a pastime to collect military grade weapons, and a smaller portion actually train with it regularly

and the government isn't going to be air striking its own populace so that power differential there won't be much to talk about either, it'll be people vs people on small civil unrest scale

[half heath]

I don't see how that can lead to anything good personally. In fact I think Democrats already do that don't they. That's why some policies are so unpopular because they're backed by lobbyists right?

[eager parrot]

Why do you think that is? They need a worker class, whether that be through slave-like labor they impose on illegal immigrants or temporary foreign workers, or it is on uneducated lower class individuals that have not been given equal opportunity to access what the country offers. And you get to scare the middle class to stay in their lane (if there's much of a middle class left now) by showing them the state of the lower class.

[half heath]

Yea I know

[forest sigil]

in those circles it has been talked about since the 70s-80s and most of it is "protect my land" types

[eager parrot]

I just don't think we'll get anywhere close to a real conflict anyway, it's silly, things have to get a lot worse for a lot of people first, and hopefully we won't get there.

far more likely to have a global conflict of some kind or escalating proxy wars than a civil war

which is also good for those who want to make money from conflict without ruining domestic land.

[forest sigil]

so far like around 1,200 people have been charged for Jan 6 too with like 700 so far being convicted of a crime

[blazing depot]

I think the military industry complex is doing just fine atm

[eager parrot]

not all of them, look at boeing lol

[marsh oracle]

thats gonna be a long first list of pardons

[eager parrot]

but they're certainly all making good money off Ukrainian blood and whatever you want to say about the middle east conflicts.

[marsh oracle]

assuming trump even remembers them

[eager parrot]

a lot of them are already out and served their time if they received any prison time at all

[marsh oracle]

not the ukraine meme again

[eager parrot]

Ukraine is a meme now? MIC is making a lot of money and testing a lot of weapons against a near peer adversary there.

[blazing depot]

Didn't you know, we should've just let Putin have it, it's fiiiiiine

[marsh oracle]

see thats always my main issue with all this "donors secretly control the government talk"

like does this imply the us shouldnt be supporting ukraine and theyre only doing it because the big military industrial complex is pushing them to?

[eager parrot]

Is this some kind of mental illness? Where did anybody say anything like that?

[eager parrot]

How is that part of the conversation any all related to this part

And how is any of that untrue?

[marsh oracle]

[eager parrot]

Do you just love making presumptions and then extrapolating what you want from it?

[marsh oracle]

youre the one with all the nefarious language around people secretly controlling the government against the will of the people

[half heath]

lobbyists and donors clearly have an influence. How can that be denied? Why would they give so much money otherwise?

[marsh oracle]

like

[eager parrot]

Again, what part of that do you dispute?

And how is that at all related to Ukraine?

Explain to me how I am wrong about any of what I said in those two quoted bits of text.

How is it at all conspiratorial?

[marsh oracle]

youre asserting that some political elite class is twisting the government against the interests of the people and instead in favor of their donors

[eager parrot]

And that is wrong how?

When the will of the people is not reflected in what the politicians do or say, what else would you call it other than non-representation

[marsh oracle]

when usually these issues are explained by a) the things being done are just good or b) the politicians doing them or blocking positive change keep getting the necessary votes to do so

the people have the power to vote them out

they just dont

[half heath]

Honest question how does upholding private insurance over universal healthcare be something that would be considered the will of the people?

[trim flicker]

While that's true it's also true that huge corporations (mainly oil and defense ones) have a huge grip on the american government and their decisions

[marsh oracle]

no actual universal healthcare plan has big enough popular support to be done

obama barely got obamacare passed

[eager parrot]

Ah yes, I see, without putting words in your mouth, do you consider businesses and corporations and rich donors good for the people, manipulating politicians good for the people? Aren't you the one who usually posts about how some GOP politician or supreme court judge was paid lavish gifts by some rich donor who clearly doesn't have the people's interest at heart?

[half heath]

Same with stuff like Student loans it doesn't make sense to me personally other than a very strong backing from huge corporations like banks, insurance providers, and defense companies

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/PopBase/status/1838899600226185603

[trim flicker]

And many of those corporations put billions of dollars on propaganda (like oil corporations not only lobbying but also funding a lot of misinformation about global warming/climate change, which does influence public opinion)

[marsh oracle]

republicans in congress would block it and the supreme court declared the executive attempt unconstitutional

if you wanna get student debt forgiveness

you vote out republicans

[trim flicker]

You can recognize the role these companies have in the government there without really making it a shadow cabal conspiracy theory

[fossil basin]

i will just say this, while i believe in harm reduction, i believe that choosing the "least worst candidate" has it's limits, or else it becomes a Hitler vs Hindenburg situation where the latter causes the former's rise even when he is elected

[half heath]

Wait one second. Are you just denying Democrats are Influenced or both parties? Because all republican actions seem self serving imo and not will of the people.

[blazing depot]

When you start splurting rhetoric like

"they're certainly all making good money off Ukrainian blood "

you can't possibly be surprised if you get put into a certain category of people.

[marsh oracle]

we can talk about very specific instances sure, though i dont think ive ever posted anything like that lol. my point is that all this nefarious and really very vague talk about some faceless shadow people secretly holding power is weird and not helpful

[blazing depot]

Like, come on now.

[fossil basin]

i think realistic electoral moves and competencies especially in local and general politics are important, but also, a movement has to exist further than electoralism

[half heath]

Can I be honest I consider some of the 1% and multi corporations the faceless shadow people because they don't put their faces in the media. They just do what they do with people never knowing who they are or how much they're worth.

[marsh oracle]

i believe that lobbyism to some degree is a legitimate part of a democracy and obviously with the current state of money and politics democrats have to do fundraising rounds as well. i would be down to get rid of your insane election cycles which require millions of dollars by each candidate for example

[fossil basin]

surely we do see their faces? Do they not like PR?

[near jetty]

yall should go outside for a walk or something

[half heath]

No like other than a handful of then most of the billionaires you wouldn't be able to and off top of your head

[marsh oracle]

no im troubleshooting my satisfactory build

[fossil basin]

i just went back from cycling, nice way to spend evening

[half heath]

you think so? Lobbying seems undemocratic to me because it gives so much power to money and most money is held by a minority of ppl.

[near jetty]

wish I could cycle but unfortunately I have to keep both hands on the wheel and staring straight forward or else I crash

[marsh oracle]

lobbying and donating huge amounts of money arent necessarily the same thing

like when people on tiktok call for you to write your senator

[fossil basin]

i think there should be some restrictions to lobbying

[marsh oracle]

thats lobbying

[blazing depot]

The thing is, obviously it makes sense for state relevant industries to make their interests heard. Lobbying isn't just lining politicians' pockets at its basics

[fossil basin]

not an outright ban, the term is too general

[half heath]

No but the lobbying that's talked about is usually in reference to some sorts of business deals from what I know. I'm not talking about legitimate lobbying.

[marsh oracle]

to some degree industry should be involved in lawmaking otherwise you end up with completely senseless stuff cause politicians wont inherently know everything about each industry

[blazing depot]

That said, the monster that lobbying has turned into particularly in the US is pretty scary

[half heath]

I agree about that

It is necessary just feel like there should be controls on it

[marsh oracle]

anyway just to repeat i think the us, and most democracies, have issues with a few people having way too much influence, im just very averse to keeping that conversation extremely vague and suggesting people cant do anything about it besides a violent revolution

[blazing depot]

I'd say there should be campaign spending limits, but that would get called SOCIALISM immediately

[marsh oracle]

because you can do something about it

you can go and vote, you can join a party, you can campaign for your favorite candidate

and if enough people with your goal do that, your will is going to be represented

[ocean vigil]

"europoors can't even fund their campaigns properly"

[blazing depot]

Like, spending the GDP of a couple dozen countries combined each election cycle on what is essentially empty media farts (from all sides, mind you) is just bonkers

[trim flicker]

I'll say that being extremely vague about it just makes it sound like the usual antisemitic conspiracies (as like 99% of all shadow cabal/government typa stuff is)

[eager parrot]

we used to have that, fairly robust campaign finance restrictions, until supreme court's citizens united decision

[blazing depot]

Wdym campaigns in Europe don't last half a year??? You can't do an election cycle in just a month!!!!11

[eager parrot]

there are campaign contribution limits too, but when independent expenditure is unlimited, the limits mean nothing

half a year is very generous, campaigns here are basically all year long every year

[marsh oracle]

and democrats have tried introducing a constitutional amendment to bring it back but in the current legislative environment youre never passing an an amendment to the constitution

[blazing depot]

US elections are a giant ass circus, nothing more or less. A circus in which the majority of people doesn't even matter.

[eager parrot]

it shouldn't be surprising that people tune it out and just go on with their lives until something interferes with their daily functions due to politicians' decisions

[marsh oracle]

well if youre not living in a swing state, are you even deserving of a right to vote?

[eager parrot]

campaigning here are everlasting and constant

[marsh oracle]

yea didnt think so

[eager parrot]

most presidential elections are being decided by around 200-300K voters difference among 170-something million voters

and only in around 7 states do those differences even matter

it's not a good system but there's no politicial will to change any of it

[eager parrot]

the issue with constitutional amendments is like everything else, they want to open all of it up for debate instead of pushing something very small and specific. once you trigger a constitutional convention, everything's on the table, and the democrats love going after the 2nd amendment, as that asshat Gavin Newson has been pushing for again recently, and immediately it's all a non-starter after that with the other side.

[blazing depot]

Translation, the side that benefits from it has no interest in changing it and making it fair

[marsh oracle]

you mean everything that gets the required votes?

that is crazy

[eager parrot]

Neither do the democrats (in charge), they've never called for abolishing or even fairly adjusting the electoral college in any serious way.

[marsh oracle]

wat

[eager parrot]

Despite something like 60 to 70 percent of people being in favor of that

(based on different polling)

[eager parrot]

huh?

[blazing depot]

Given that there is not even a remote chance of making it happen in your legislative and hasn't been for a couple decades now that's not exactly surprising.

[eager parrot]

Fair.

[marsh oracle]

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status

im gonna let you figure out the dem/rep correlation here

[blazing depot]

Cause Dems have definitely talked about that

[eager parrot]

the national popular vote interstate compact is a loophole not a solution, and it hasn't been legally tested yet. the change really should be happening at the congressional level and constitutional level.

[marsh oracle]

ok, and im asking this genuinely

you need 60 senators for this iirc?

maybe even 66?

[blazing depot]

Filibuster is a thing

[marsh oracle]

idk how that interacts with amendments

but either way

which side do you think would have more senators supporting it?

[blazing depot]

I mean.... obviously dems. Why would any GOP senator support that

[eager parrot]

obviously democrats would support it more but there won't be enough of them to get to 66 even if there were 70 democratic senators

and the house is a whole other matter

[blazing depot]

The current house is effectively run by the likes of MTG rn, they won't pass anything

[eager parrot]

and even if you got both houses to fall in line with 2/3rd vote, there aren't 3/4th of the states who would be willing to ratify it

[blazing depot]

iirc that whole amendment workaround by getting it passed in a majority of states is basically the only way to make amendments happen in currentday (and it's not a loophole, it's an intended and obviously neccessary mechanism, lol)

[eager parrot]

it's legality is questionable and the supreme court in its current form would strike it down

it's a loophole when it's not in solid ground

[marsh oracle]

so what would be your standard for dems calling for abolishing the electoral college in a serious way

[eager parrot]

let's hear Harris say it for example, or any of the top democrats who hold any positions of influence

[marsh oracle]

i mean the governers signing that pact should count?

[forest sigil]

you need 2/3 of both houses to get an amendment and also 3/4 states to ratify it

[marsh oracle]

oh

lol

lmao even

[forest sigil]

there hasnt been one in a long long time

one of the biggest domestic concerns if trump wins is that he potentially appoint 2 SC judges again

[marsh oracle]

https://youtu.be/B65bZOOH2BI?si=qgJWj4oKIqKlh4zP&t=388

cant believe im linking jimmy kimmel

[blazing depot]

Was about to say

[forest sigil]

yeah she's open to discussion about eleminating it

[marsh oracle]

maybe if us journalists posed good questions instead of just asking her about the latest trumpism we would have an update on this

[forest sigil]

they still keep asking her about the race stuff so no hope there

[blazing depot]

"Are you really black?"

Good stuff

[forest sigil]

people cannot understand you can be biracial

[marsh oracle]

or as jd vance would put it

you can eat curry and fried chicken

[ocean vigil]

or cat

[forest sigil]

I do think if trump loses it is the end of the line for him as far as politics goes

he'd be like 82 in 2028

and would have lost twice

[blazing depot]

Wasn't that Laura Loomer

[marsh oracle]

trump the man or trump the symbol

[forest sigil]

the man

[marsh oracle]

cause theres a good chance the maga wing stays alive and well just lead by somebody else

[half heath]

just wondering what psycho they'd prop up next

[blazing depot]

Trump Jr. up next

[forest sigil]

they'll co-opt the maga movement to someone charismatic, so no one currently in the mainstream

[blazing depot]

Ivanka thankfully doesn't seem particularly interested

[marsh oracle]

oh that was the original

vance somehow made it worse

[blazing depot]

But... how

[ocean vigil]

that's just what he does

[half heath]

if it's another celebrity who you guys got your money on?

[blazing depot]

That was already so racist that MTG of all people called her out

[forest sigil]

Desantis is a fart in the wind

[marsh oracle]

i respect the attempt at a pivot but come on

[half heath]

omg...I'm weirdly curious how this would go

[marsh oracle]

you gotta be more nimble than that

[blazing depot]

... lmao

I shouldn't laugh at that, but jesus

[forest sigil]

Kemp and Youngkin are most likely next up for republicans

they could try Nikki Haley again

[half heath]

looks awful

[marsh oracle]

democrats should be scared of the gabbard/kennedy ticket

[forest sigil]

I dont think they would have to worry about the second part

either the worm or something else will get him by then

[hoary charm]

a shame tulsi aligned herself with trump, always thought she was relatively sane

[forest sigil]

she was always a shill

[hoary charm]

when hating the dems goes too far I suppose

[marsh oracle]

the russians do pay pretty well

[forest sigil]

the dems just have a younger bench than the republicans do at the moment

[blazing depot]

President AOC 2032 ftw, amirite

[marsh oracle]

i mean

did you see her dnc speech

[forest sigil]

AOC vs MTG cage match to decide the presidency

[marsh oracle]

shes probably too big of a negative figure for republicans but its not that far off i think

[blazing depot]

AOC will mop the floor with MTG

[forest sigil]

I think they want someone that will actually work with them and not against them like she has lol

there was the whole fiasco with nominating a speaker

[marsh oracle]

she seems to have learned how to get stuff done in the party since then

unlike the other squad members

[forest sigil]

oh I meant MTG

[marsh oracle]

oh

lmao

[forest sigil]

and her Matt Gaetz alliance

[marsh oracle]

wasnt there something with the squad and a speaker election too

[forest sigil]

I just know that 2 of them lost their seats

[brave pelican]

marjorie the gathering

[marsh oracle]

https://archive.is/96g3o does this embed

[toxic spoke]

oh he was confronted on the house floor lol

[marsh oracle]

Member of congress btw

[toxic spoke]

https://x.com/MaxwellFrostFL/status/1839027281022308526
https://x.com/MZanona/status/1839046084884074743

censuring him now too, you know it's bad when other GOPs say it's too far

[last eagle]

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1838987938522087627?t=nXOlywkVzvbW2uQFXmiV-g&s=19

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) on X

A Diddy documentary is in the works at Netflix.

• Will focus on Diddy’s charges of sex trafficking and racketeering + sexual assault and violent abuse allegations

• Exec produced by 50 Cent.

(Source: https://t.co/Rg1FTNDe30)

Twitter · Sep 25, 2024, 5:04 PM

ofc there's a docu speedrun

but if you already heard of this case... yea

this is very messed up

[eager parrot]

Exec produced by 50 Cent.

[dreamy ledge]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/25/media/alex-jones-infowars-auction-sandy-hook-families/index.html

who buys it is a future concern but overall, point and laugh at Alex Jones

[trim flicker]

Get fucked

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/lebanons-hezbollah-says-it-launched-rocket-targeting-mossad-base-near-tel-aviv-2024-09-25/

"This is both to prepare the ground for your possible entry and to continue degrading Hezbollah." A Pentagon spokesperson said an Israeli ground incursion did not appear imminent.
A classic

[blazing depot]

Israel's U.N. Ambassador Danny Danon told reporters before the meeting that Israel would welcome a ceasefire and preferred a diplomatic solution.

He hasn't talked to anyone back home in a while, huh

[oak lodge]

The Downfall-o-Diddy

[eager parrot]

at least diddy is getting his comeuppance before he's too old or gone unlike so many bad people in entertainment or otherwise

[eager parrot]

right after that bit by him also though

He then told the Security Council that Iran was the nexus of violence in the region and peace required dismantling the threat.

doublespeak is kind of their MO

dismantling the threat while also preferring a diplomatic solution is very much their de-escalation through escalation policy

[trim flicker]

Kinda cursed the Pentagon spokesperson said a ground incursion isn't imminent cause now I'm expecting to happen literally tomorrow

It's been a constant
"There's no signs they'll do that"

They do it right after

[vital needle]

Whos is the nexus of violence in this neighborhood?

me, the child killer and fascist
that dude over there who is generally displeased with my presence

[eager parrot]

I very much expect it'll go like 2006, a lot of dead on lebanon side, but no real gains for Israel other than

what's that phrase

ah nevermind I'm at a loss for words

[oak lodge]

I was just going to reply with that exact same comment lol. They're called "fudds" in that community

[oak lodge]

there's also video of actual ground infantry whom are currently stationed in neighbouring regions all across the internet. Very very disingenuous

[livid frigate]

it's not like the US will actually stop arms shipments to israel

settler colonial states must stick together

to borrow a quote from biden "if there were no israel then the US would create one"

israel just loves genocide

they have since 1948

really no different to manifest destiny

another settler colonial genocidal phase

[thorny schooner]

god bless 50 cent

[half heath]

until we hear something weird about him too...

[thorny schooner]

fuck no

thats 50

[half heath]

idk man...

[thorny schooner]

you wont catch 50 near no damn kids

diddy been weird from the start

bros been covering up murders his whole career

[oak lodge]

a bit on the deviant side yes

[half heath]

oh yea im not saying he'd be like diddy

[thorny schooner]

50 goat

thats mr I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU HEAAARD ABOUT ME

[half heath]

just so many celebs at this rate dissapoint us

[thorny schooner]

thats why you shouldnt treat them like gods

[half heath]

that foo fighters guy always seemed like a class act

[oak lodge]

mister "What they say fuck me for?"

[thorny schooner]

wasnt even bros first time getting caught like that

if i recall

[oak lodge]

no not at all

[half heath]

yea, its just annoying because he had a tendency to judge other ppl often publically

[oak lodge]

he's been named in more than a handful of incidents before this decade

[half heath]

thats why i don't really have any celebs id idolize for their character cause its all PR

[thorny schooner]

true!!

[half heath]

maybe for their skills and talents

[thorny schooner]

hikaru utada can never hurt me

[half heath]

✊ I hope so

[eager parrot]

how is it that NYC is so good at electing some of the absolute worst people in the city to be their mayor so consistently over the years?

at least eventually revealed to be terrible people anyway

not as consistent but their choice of governors needs some questioning too.

[oak lodge]

some major cities have some historically well-known cases of corruption, cronyism, and other bullshit

Not surprised especially since New York is without saying on this objective and totally real list if we search it up with all of it's major metropolitan.

or hey, maybe they're getting up these fairly and are extremely like-able to average voters and that's why they're elected consistently.

[vital needle]

AI do be smarter than some people

[pale flower]

Seems more like dumbing down the conflict instead but I'm past trying to convince you otherwise lol

[oak lodge]

I'm more surprised the AI isn't giving you a

"No comment, next question."

but then again I only hear of AI censoring anything remotely controversial (and informational) for no good reason from frantic anti-robot-overlord people

[forest sigil]

https://x.com/jacobtheloofah/status/1839117121436934517?t=XVb3IEZNao1G3yr7JVbYaQ&s=19

Jacob Scherer (@jacobtheloofah) on X

It's insane that Eric Adams is the first sitting NYC Mayor to be indicted on criminal charges, that's like being the first sitting mayor of Mouse City to eat cheese

Twitter · Sep 26, 2024, 1:37 AM

[marsh oracle]

Bonus points for the "short answers only", history is famously very simple and condensed into single sentences

[vital needle]

Oh no I hate it when people miss the nuance and complexity of colonial genocide

[pale flower]

zzzzz

[trim flicker]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-gaza-news-09-26-2024-486f5aecac210273611124f9ade95fc6

smil

[livid frigate]

If only the US would cancel all arms shipments

[blazing depot]

Netanyahu simply has zero interest in any sort of peace, cause once that happens he will actually have to face consequences, plus his coalition partners essentially want to just eradicate all those pesky non-jews anyway, what better opportunity than this

[marsh oracle]

with trump still having a chance at winning, why would he have peace talks

although hezbollah doesnt seem like theyre in shape for a war, their leader didnt sound very confident after those pager explosions

hopefully this guy can fuck off after the next election

[blazing depot]

"We will not stand for any sort of peace" is definitely a stance

[livid frigate]

The problem is systemic

[vital needle]

This seems to imply that the democrats are anti-genocide and would do anything at all if kamala won and theres simply no evidence to believe that

No party in the USA is against colonialism

They simply cant be

[fossil basin]

it does not seem to imply that, it more implifies that regardless of Democrats' stances, Trump winning would be a boost for Netanyahu

Netanyahu does want Trump win, regardless if Kamala or establishment democrats are pro-genocide

we know because he was vocal about it

not a defense of any parties involved, more so clearing up context

[near jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/miley-cyrus-dancing-dance-hot-girl-gif-17675367

party in the usa

[trim flicker]

brady is so right

[eager parrot]

on a completely unrelated note, they're trying to take down libgen again

worked out great the last numerous times

[haughty steppe]

can't take down my goat

[marsh oracle]

ai generated content everywhere, bots running rampant on every site, the internet archive losing that one lawsuit, libgen struggling

the internet is rapidly going downhill lmao

[vital needle]

How so though what would trump give him that he doesnt already have?

[marsh oracle]

In german politics news, the anti nato leftist/left wing party is apparently willing to have coalition talks with the right wing extremist party to form a state government

[vital needle]

Maybe he prefers trumo out of afinity but materialy i dont see a difference

[marsh oracle]

Hope they call it horseshoe coalition

[ocean vigil]

tbh they do have the same benefactor

[fossil basin]

kamala might be pro-genocide, but she is understandably put of by netanyahu's shenigans and reputation loss

[marsh oracle]

Well they cant call it the russia coalition

[fossil basin]

trump is not being put off by netanyahu

[marsh oracle]

Trump winning would practically remove any amount of influence the international community could have on israel

[fossil basin]

yeah

basically what trump gives Netanyahu that Kamala does not already give, is job guarantee

i would likely not be against someone who is guaranteeing my job, even though i would not be as despicable of a person in comparison

[marsh oracle]

You can disagree with bidens stance but with trump you wouldnt have had that pier and all around even less resources going into gaza and netanyahu would have invaded rafah a lot sooner with less time for civilians to flee just to name two material differences

[fossil basin]

the pier's presence reasons is mixed, it is alleged that it's being used to supply israel as well, i will say that it'd be less saving face, but i would think the results would be more or less similar

just less pretensions of caring about civilian deaths

[marsh oracle]

Lots of things are alleged

[fossil basin]

i still do believe kamala would have performed a bit better than biden, for the sole reason that she is not suffering from old age complications yet

[blazing depot]

Can we not casually call people "pro genocide", lol

[fossil basin]

it's a hard word, but it's not necessarily used enough even in modern pretext

[marsh oracle]

Lol

[blazing depot]

what, do you even hear yourself

[fossil basin]

arguably a lot more people than we give credit to are genodicial, i could see that easily in Turkey

like, i am speaking not only due this specific conflict, but due a lot more people wanting off those who are not their ethnicity or religion

of course nobody would state themselves to be pro-genocide or pro-ethnic cleansing, but within whole belief systems, it is clear

pro-ethnic cleansing is a bipartisan policy here, which i am horrified of

[thorny schooner]

hazbin hotel profile picture comments invalid

[fossil basin]

LOL player talking

[thorny schooner]

[near jetty]

hey lets be decent

[fossil basin]

i mean you do you, i am not against people playing LOL or anything, but lets not invalidate one for an interest

[near jetty]

kinda odd you know its from hazbin hotel

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-girl-jiho-suspicious-gif-21013096

[marsh oracle]

Looking into this

[near jetty]

concerning.

[vital needle]

Tf how are you not against league players

[fossil basin]

my sister is one

i am just not skilled enough to be a MOBA player

my focus wanes too fast

[blazing depot]

And language like that is why nothing will change in the overall dialogue and everybody loses in the end. Words carry meaning, some words carry very specific meaning, if you use them as a blanket term it's both insulting and strips extremists of what makes them extremists. Suddenly everyone's genocidal. Equalizing someone like Kamala with people who actually do a casual bit of genocide like Putin or Netanyahu is so outta pocket and damaging to general discourse.

Like, go outside, touch some grass. Then come back and talk like a normal person.

[fossil basin]

being pro-genocide or genocidial does not mean committing a genocide by yourself.

a majority of people within a specific area can be genocidial, not as much people can commit one by themselves

i did not say Kamala committed a genocide?

i said she was pro- one

[blazing depot]

I'm not gonna bother to mince words here, that's the dumbest thing I've read here in a very long time

Everyone's a little bit genocidal folks, pack it up

Damien, will you stop murdering everything in your lane

smhmh

[fossil basin]

there was actually a guardian article about this

it got backlash due people not reading past the headline

i will post it as soon as i find it, it's somewhat similar to my point here

[marsh oracle]

As a former jungle main I am genocidal against my team mates lane minions

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/guardian/status/1832044304199524824

[vital needle]

Anti- brazilian activity

[fossil basin]

extremely misleading title, but an useful article, author is a camp survivor

[vital needle]

Posting links to twitter

[thorny schooner]

we are all nazi’s?!?

deep down

the guardian is wildin

[brave pelican]

what a title

[marsh oracle]

But we are also all marxists deep down so it cancels out

[brave pelican]

two wolves

[thorny schooner]

the two wolves

its like waking up on the wrong side of the bed

[fossil basin]

title is extremely off-putting, but the author is an Jewish-German Auschwitz survivor

[marsh oracle]

Theres three wolves

But the third one is ancap and slightly stupid

[vital needle]

Ancaps are just nazis

[thorny schooner]

if im a nazi deep down im ending my life

[brave pelican]

me when i see 'ancap' on the internet

[thorny schooner]

this article is gonna be my demise

[near jetty]

aww cmon you have fantasy basketball to play

[thorny schooner]

true…..

[blazing depot]

First off, that's the most clickbait title possible considering the content of that article. Second, that is a theoretical, pseudo-psychological fluff piece going "Everyone could potentially be a [...]" with so much pseudo science in it it almost makes itself look legitimate.

[thorny schooner]

this is like we are all inherently racist

[blazing depot]

This, but serious
https://youtu.be/RovF1zsDoeM?si=D5L7qfqoTnsHEc9m

[thorny schooner]

i cant be a nazi i hate europeans them mfers run down my ranked games!!

[marsh oracle]

Poppsych is a plague on humanity

So is evopsych, maybe theres a trend here

[near jetty]

i am not a big fan of the british : /

[brave pelican]

government agents reading this channel

[near jetty]

seeing yunjin go to england ruined my day

[thorny schooner]

i got beef with some germans

mostly futbal related

[blazing depot]

Is that what you call talking out of your arse because a psychology degree and no way of making money with it

[near jetty]

i got beef with 1 israeli who said the irene raiden song was bad

[marsh oracle]

Oh you dont even need a degree for it

[fossil basin]

i am not the one with a poppsych degree, what is it?

[thorny schooner]

i popped off for bayer 04 tho

[fossil basin]

i am asking genuinely

[thorny schooner]

shoutout my fav bender brother

and leno i used to sign that guy in my arsenal career modes and now look

[blazing depot]

True, I guess

[brave pelican]

This server should be hosting resume workshops and career fairs

what are we doing

[thorny schooner]

I’m a visionary

[near jetty]

i just got home from work

[thorny schooner]

but then we lost his ass to fulham!

[blazing depot]

SInce when do you know anything about football, Damien

[near jetty]

eating culvers

[thorny schooner]

curse you tony khan!!

[ocean vigil]

i'm watching NL until the second half starts

[thorny schooner]

tons!

[blazing depot]

What has happened to you

[brave pelican]

culvers is still on my try list

[haughty steppe]

You and Henry should hold hands

[thorny schooner]

been a big arsenal guy since i was 11

[marsh oracle]

Poppsych, just like popscience, just refers to people/influence talking about psychology as if they have a clue with no actual academic background

[fossil basin]

Damien likely still knows more than an average Turkish sports commentator does

[fossil basin]

argued, it is a low bar

[thorny schooner]

i got a 2012/2013 theo jersey in my closet

[brave pelican]

im sorry

[ocean vigil]

you're sick

[thorny schooner]

i dont got beef with turkish people i like the one dude in japan that called me obama

that was life changing

[fossil basin]

i have beef with turkish people as one

[near jetty]

he lives out west and last time i was out there was a couple years ago

[blazing depot]

That's rough

[fossil basin]

i do not hate myself or people around me, it's just wild overall

[thorny schooner]

i also have spurs shorts but dont tell anyone

i do not support that team!

[marsh oracle]

Also generally concepts people think are science based when they really arent

[brave pelican]

bro is just team london

[thorny schooner]

i hate the spurs

[near jetty]

even wemby?

[fossil basin]

alright, thanks for explaination, i was lost for a second here

[blazing depot]

That's even rougher, you can't tell both of these facts to fans of either team at the same time

[ocean vigil]

the people of san antonio will survive that

[fossil basin]

also does this server have a gaming subchannel/subforum??

[thorny schooner]

when it comes to german football its questionable

[brave pelican]

well they could survive anything surely

[haughty steppe]

😢

[marsh oracle]

Like idk if they still teach this but learning styles are just made up

[thorny schooner]

#1022121985473515551

is the whole fourm

theres like a bunch of sub ones

[blazing depot]

Damien only knows where the place is cause he's a m0d, he isn't actually a gamer

[thorny schooner]

i like dortmund they had my goat

[brave pelican]

ah yes dembele

[thorny schooner]

shinji kagawa

me and a friend got pretty far in co-op seasons playing that squad

[blazing depot]

idek where that guy has vanished to tbh

[thorny schooner]

back to the j1 league

[blazing depot]

Makes sense

[thorny schooner]

plays for the osaka club

[brave pelican]

he was in mexico i think for a bit

[fossil basin]

he has played a season in Beşiktaş

[brave pelican]

or somewhere like that

[near jetty]

i used to be a big lewandowski fan

[brave pelican]

no wait spain league 2

[thorny schooner]

i was more of a reus fan

but i understood the robin hype

[near jetty]

old man

[marsh oracle]

Can anybody explain the sportsbetting epidemic

[fossil basin]

my parents wanted to name me after Raul Gonzalez

[marsh oracle]

Do people really do that

[thorny schooner]

yes

[fossil basin]

yep, even while i am Turkish

[near jetty]

many

i have not because betting is a sin in my bible

[thorny schooner]

here i see it everywhere because canada lifted the ban on shit like this like 3ish years ago

[brave pelican]

my roommate had a gambling addiction then got put in a ward over the summer

for something else but he doesnt gamble anymore

[thorny schooner]

now i see a bunch of big ads for the online stuff

my only issue is if i got into it i would start hating the game

[brave pelican]

the shirt sponsors are really ugly

[marsh oracle]

You had me in the first half

[thorny schooner]

like i get those clips of dudes doing angel reese over and under picks im like MANN

[marsh oracle]

Yea it seems like a really easy way to ruin the game for yourself

[thorny schooner]

like its all fun and games till you lose and smash ur tv!!

then you gotta pay for that aswell!

[marsh oracle]

I know one big league account that constantly talks about their bets and while reading the tweets is very funny I would probably lose my mind lmfao

[blazing depot]

Betting is bad, kida. Don't do it.

[thorny schooner]

its predatory in the ads

[near jetty]

only bet you should make is on yourself

[thorny schooner]

like gamblings ads are always like HOLY FUCK YOU CAN WIN 739383737 DOLLLARS

[fossil basin]

i mean there's already fantasy football, why bet further

[marsh oracle]

You can also bet on a very wide spread Index fund

[fossil basin]

i do not even play fantasy football

[thorny schooner]

like imagine if whiskey ads were like YOU WILL BECOME GOD

[ocean vigil]

ads over the pond are wild in general

[oak lodge]

I don't drink though :(

[fossil basin]

quite worrying how normalized betting is in NBA specifically

[ocean vigil]

gotta love ads for medicine that spend 2 minutes talking about side effects

[thorny schooner]

i do fantasy not for money

im in only league where i put in like a 5

[near jetty]

love of the game

[fossil basin]

i do not play it because i am lazy, not because i am against it

[thorny schooner]

when you see those 300 dollar leagues im like alright man

[marsh oracle]

Oh yea here ads are only allowed for over the counter stuff

[thorny schooner]

or even more yahoo got some crazy shit

i watched my friend bet on valorant

that shit is crazy

[near jetty]

i used to bet on cs when i was like 15

[fossil basin]

apparently people can now bet on jimmy butler's media day hairstyle

[thorny schooner]

yeah like pistol rounds and shit

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1838587526568706426

[thorny schooner]

league aswell people bet on

[ocean vigil]

dota 322 scandal over 10 years ago

[near jetty]

cs ibuypower

[thorny schooner]

like theres that account of the dude all he does is type about his league bets and his losses aswell

like bros up at 4am watching the lpl screaming at his computer

[blazing depot]

You know your favorite pasttime is legit if it had its first betting scandal

[thorny schooner]

betting on fucking weibo gaming 😭😭

i could never

[blazing depot]

You bet on weebo all the time you filthy gacha player

[marsh oracle]

Forestwithout the 🐐

Absolute psychopath

[blazing depot]

Goats aren't really forest creatures though

[ocean vigil]

never looked at goats the same after the taylor swift edit

[blazing depot]

Wrong biome

[marsh oracle]

Thats why its forestwithout not forestwithin

[fossil basin]

it's been 12 years

or was it 13

[thorny schooner]

https://x.com/accidentalbron/status/1839305353277698457?s=46&t=QiGNZdOPYxLEbT6xdXLsQA

Accidental Bronson (@AccidentalBron) on X

Twitter · Sep 26, 2024, 2:05 PM

[marsh oracle]

https://youtu.be/-aLYvZ5sX28?si=I4JP9_kEo55VckPy peak millenial humor

[thorny schooner]

good price for yao

[blazing depot]

Goats screaming like humans is 12yrs old already? No way..

Ah thank fuck, it's only 11 years

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/barry/status/1839317126500462671

wtf was he busy doing in there

https://fxtwitter.com/ReallyDanWeiner/status/1839332569487438024

atleast now there are routes to Chile

this is so fuckass

[vital needle]

The also have cassinos attachex which all of my students play

The government is giving students a little money if they go to school and they blow it on gambling

An weed

[fossil basin]

betting sector/mobile casinos are also a problem here, particularly as government either over-taxes, bans, censors, or wants to get rid of a lot of other hobby-wise activities or stimulants

when that happens, people naturally leans towards hard drugs and to gambling

[fossil basin]

what are you teaching?

not as in trying to find blame, as in the specialization

[vital needle]

Geography but I have no background in geography

I am a history major

And I only work at highschool

[fossil basin]

i see

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/AssLatam/status/1839417998198870256?t=xEXIqwrVRWu6Xu1XUXXwTw&s=19

[fringe juniper]

That's my Indian casino. MB

[blazing depot]

When conservatives try to do a gotcha but can't count
https://x.com/dfossier/status/1839431158859522326

Derek Fossier (@dfossier) on X

@JustinWolfers You like charts, right?

Twitter · Sep 26, 2024, 10:25 PM

Gee, I wonder who was president in 2020

[marsh oracle]

https://gettrumpwatches.com/ anybody wanna pool together and buy a 100k watch?

[hoary charm]

lmfao

calibri ass font usage instead of the actual trump logo

[marsh oracle]

I like that hes not even wearing a watch on the picture they used

Come on man wheres the marketing

The best part about all these trump items is that they all explicitly have nothing to do with the campaign, you really are just lining a billionaires pockets

[hoary charm]

its random companies buying a license to use the name, thats all

a grift to make money off maga dipshits

[oak lodge]

It definitely sounds like a grift

they're hiding the movement model number, they all have some type of ID or otherwise patent. TX-07 very obviously doesn't have any results lol

[fossil basin]

https://nypost.com/2024/09/23/us-news/how-sabrina-carpenter-got-caught-up-in-eric-adams-corruption-probe/

[fossil basin]

https://fxtwitter.com/BuzzingPop/status/1839510599669043357

[ocean vigil]

https://fixupx.com/Acyn/status/1839675283810480631

...

[marsh oracle]

Maybe zelensky should buy a trump watch

[blazing depot]

idk man, Putin was there first with the golden things

Granted, that wasn't watches

(let's see who even remembers that)

[ocean vigil]

ffs

[blazing depot]

kek

[trim flicker]

Jesus

[fossil basin]

at what date?

before or after Jeon Somi released GOLD GOLD GOLD

[blazing depot]

I don't think Somi has any affiliation with Putin

[fossil basin]

can never be so sure

not accusing her of having any

[trim flicker]

that song does suck

[fossil basin]

it is funny, it is a bad song, but it is atleast somewhat quirky

[eager parrot]

Russian or Canadian agent, same difference right?

[fossil basin]

i like bad songs more than boring ones

[trim flicker]

the usual "at least i feel something and remember it"

[fossil basin]

exactly

atleast make yourself memorable if not good

[forest sigil]

Ascension Millennium

[dreamy ledge]

"Friday Friday gotta get down on Friday"

[fossil basin]

"Freaky fresh fresh"

and especially Breathless by VIVID

[fossil basin]

https://youtu.be/NMXcyXkJvhs

[blazing depot]

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1839753284040462558

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) on X

Trump claims that his tariffs policy is why people in foreign countries are trying to assassinate him (note the complete silence of his audience)

Twitter · Sep 27, 2024, 7:45 PM

Very sane thread again btw

https://fixupx.com/atrupar/status/1839755308664516818

Hey, free healthcare

Pretty sure there's a good number of people who would appreciate that

[marsh oracle]

oh yesterday he said it was the iranians

whos it gonna be tomorrow

[trim flicker]

Damn kamala herself will operate you

Thats crazy

[blazing depot]

Yeah, that's actually what she will spend most of her presidency with

[oak lodge]

China sent assassins?!! Noooo

[eager parrot]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hezbollah-hamas-latest-mideast-27-september-2024-4dc3676b10be0fe7b41ab6d9cd897014

they really want a full-on war

they're striking residential areas in Beirut now, but of course they give advanced warning ... somewhere ... to the residents of those buildings first

[oak lodge]

something like "if they didn't leave yet, they want to get involved"

splash-1

[marsh oracle]

Was there confirmation if they killed nasrallah?

Putting your main headquarters under residential buildings definitely a big brain move

[blazing depot]

https://x.com/anniekarni/status/1839754617934225735

Annie Karni (@anniekarni) on X

None of these people are related to the candidate in a tight Virginia house race, Derrick Anderson.

Twitter · Sep 27, 2024, 7:50 PM

Clowns

[marsh oracle]

Now that really is a big brain move

https://fxtwitter.com/KamalaHQ/status/1839761520193904861 that line from kamala is really gonna haunt him for the rest of his life isnt it

This is some inception type shit, how did she do it

[blazing depot]

lmao

She really got under his skin with that one, huh

[trim flicker]

LOL

Yeah she really did hit him where it hurts the most

[trim flicker]

I don't think so

Some outlets reported that he was the target but idt anyone confirmed his status

[vital needle]

Yeah just like they put weapons deposita and secret bases under hospitals and schools

Its amazing that israeli tech is so advanced not a single trace of these vast networks remains after the buildings above ground are destroyed

Keeping the chosen people safe one residential block at a time 🙏

[pale flower]

We've been at war for the past year

The warnings are sent out via social media, and Lebanese local news of course run the video/map warnings by the IDF spokesmen to warn the citizens

As in, yesterday there was a large section of the IDF spokesman's video message dedicated to describing exactly which buildings in which streets will get hit, and those are always aired on every Israeli news channel. So of course any Lebanese news channel/site would re-run those warnings for their citizens

[trim flicker]

Maybe they should just not bomb Lebanon i think

[pale flower]

They wouldn't if there were no other choice lol, Israel has sent out warnings to Hez that they will retaliate over the bombings Hez started on Oct 8th but Hez just continued sending missiles to Israel

There have been efforts via France/US to try to reach an agreement over this past year but Hez refused to move past the Litani the way they were meant to, continuing to launch missiles instead

Meanwhile around 70k citizens in Israel from the North have had to leave their homes for fear of missiles

Only so much a country can wait considering the talks weren't going anywhere and the launches only continued

[trim flicker]

Now that's just false, the many many cease fire agreements that were proposed and Netanyahu refused weren't a choice? They proposed a cease fire for Lebanon two days ago and he refused too.
And iirc Hezbollah said they'd keep the strikes until Israel halted their operations on Gaza, which they also didn't, and refused the many opportunities of doing so

I know it must suck to be there and actually feel how fucked the situation is but the way your government is conducting itself and trying to make it look like they have no choice is absurd

[pale flower]

So Israel should compromise the South's safety for the North's safety? I don't agree with that

The ceasefire proposals were mostly with Gaza, Hez began attacking Israel even before Israel began the attacks on Gaza iirc so I think the whole "halt your operations in Gaza" thing, while potentially true, is also an excuse imo because they KNOW Israel refuses Hamas's ridiculous terms (which have also been referred to as ridiculous by the US)

I'm all for a ceasefire but Hamas can't stay in power, for the sake of all civilians involved

Just as Bibi's coalition stands in the way of peace, so does Hamas, neither should be allowed to stay in power by the end of this war

Otherwise we've been at this song and dance for the past many years and again nothing will change

As for the Lebanon ceasefire refusal, it's not only Bibi's coalition that disagreed but MANY parties from within Israel, on the left as well as the right side of the political spectrum

(The left are the more pro-ceasefire/pro-compromise side)

So it's not just a Bibi thing and I don't think it should be portrayed in that way

A 21 day ceasefire is a LONG time and Hez hasn't shown any seriousness when it comes to actually reaching an agreement, for the entire past year that the US and France have been working for one. What would be different now?

As in, long enough time for Hez's leadership to reorganize and hit Israel's towns even harder

And yeah of course this situation is fucked up, no one actually wants this conflict but also enough is enough

[trim flicker]

Yeah and what do you think will happen after they bombed those cities and displaced over 200k people? That Lebanese people will just be chill with Israel? Or that they'll be more radicalized and join hezbollah to fight against it?

[pale flower]

Also just to complete this - the left leaning party "The Democrats" in Israel has instead offered to make it a three day ceasefire for both parties to prove their seriousness in reaching an agreement

[pale flower]

I think you should check /r/lebanon for that LOL I don't think it's as clear cut as you put it

Like yes of course they'll become more radicalized/hate Israel more, but Israel's job is to take care of the CURRENT weapons and leaders posing a threat on Israel. If the Lebanese leadership then has enough power (which is usually diminished by Hez's presence) there's actually a bigger chance of reaching a peace deal between the two countries

Think of it maybe like a government that can't take hold of a massive mafia org that essentially operates on its own. You kill the mafia's big bosses, they struggle to re-form into a properly working organization, and the government can potentially take over the situation better

[trim flicker]

Why are you explaining it to me like I'm a first grader

[pale flower]

Hez as a militia is stronger than Lebanon's own army, iirc that's part of why they couldn't following Resolution 1701

[pale flower]

Sorry if it came across that way, I just wanted to make sure my point was coming across

I don't think I'd be explaining warfare tactics to a 1st grader anyway LOL

Or trying to at least, I'm no expert either obviously but this is what I understand from our end of things

[hoary charm]

this discussion goes in the same circles every time its brought up with all the same fundamental disagreements

[trim flicker]

Issue is i don't think that will work, the radicalized militias will still exist and resist, if the US couldn't get rid of Taliban, Israel won't get rid of Hez, nor Hamas
It just won't happen

[hoary charm]

so whats even the point

[trim flicker]

It can't happen because when you keep the violence up you just radicalize more people
And those people won't forget it

[dusky rapids]

at least this discussion is in good faith, can't say the same for when some others in this channel are online

[hoary charm]

lol too true

[trim flicker]

im vibin

[pale flower]

Yeah I'm all good too LOL I know Don's heart is in the right place

[pale flower]

And I mean, I get this point too, but I think that while Nzism is still a thing, there are also no organized Nzi militias currently and it doesn't pervade through the general population's mind.
I don't think Israel seeks to rid of radicals in Lebanon (but maybe it does in Gaza), I do think the Lebanese government should be responsible for that though, kinda like how Germany is now an ally of the Jewish people and tends to strike down hard against antisemitism

Future days will tell though, I agree it's hard to tell ahead of time what the best course of action is

[trim flicker]

I think history has shown time and time again that how you deal with these resistance movements is not by engaging with violence, which is what creates them in the first place.
Hezbollah was created because Israel invaded Lebanon, by striking them and killing civilians in the process you just give them more legitimacy, because it makes you the focus as a main threat.
Nazism was a national fascist movement based on a lie, painting not only the Jews but any other minority ethnic groups as threats, animals and savages. That's a huge difference

[pale flower]

I don't think it's as different as you think LOL but I think we can agree to disagree

[trim flicker]

Also to note that 'painting minor ethnic groups as threats, animals and savages' is something a lot of the people next to Netanyahu do to Palestinians (because those dudes are fascist as fuck)

[pale flower]

Oh yeah of course

I hate their guts

Something which a lot of people here seem to fail to realize is how utterly fucked our police is going to be for the next few years at least cause the current high rank police all are either close to/strive to appease the most radical Jewish terror supporter to have ever been in power

[trim flicker]

Also to note that Germany had to lose a huge war that killed tons of people to change things up, and i don't think Israel should actually go to war with Lebanon

[pale flower]

I agree I'd rather Hez surrender right away before things can get any worse. I think Germany at the time surrendered too, right?

Like I really hope that the correct political moves can happen now that Hez has suffered a lot of great losses militarily, it really depends on what happens next though

[trim flicker]

It's been a while since I've read up on anything ww2 but iirc they surrended after they were already pretty fucked

[dusky rapids]

the meme about them screwing themselves over by trying to invade russia

[trim flicker]

and well the nazis were also the government at the time, while hezbollah really isn't (even if they kinda operate as a secondary government ig)
the whole dynamic on fascist government vs. resistance movement is very different

[pale flower]

Hez does hold governmental power iirc

[fossil basin]

at this point the excuse will just be "uh hez relocated so we have to relocate each of our neighboring countries"

[trim flicker]

Yeah they're not the government but they have influence

[pale flower]

Hold up I'll grab the details

[fossil basin]

alas, hez having influence is kinda israel's fault as well for using them to erase leftist organization powers on those countries

i cannot blame others for having to make my own bed

i see many times of Turkish state blaming all other factions for organizations they have funded turning against them, like, it's their own fault, not people who want human rights or self-determination/rule

[trim flicker]

They're called resistance movements for a reason
You kinda need to chill out and try to make the relationship work

And it takes time and effort to build trust and ofc there's gonna be some resentment but you can't keep the violence going

[pale flower]

Okay I literally can't find the current governmental structure on wiki LOL but the last thing I can see is that Hez had (has?) 12 seats out of 70 (majority) in parliament

[trim flicker]

Yeah it's something wacky the details don't really matter as much
The point is that they're not actually in full control of the country

But i know they help operate schools and hospitals and stuff

Huge militias kinda do a bunch of stuff

[pale flower]

Right but I think that the current situation (this past year) does show that the Lebanese government doesn't hold much power over Hez

[trim flicker]

Yeah they clearly don't

[pale flower]

If you want to compare it to Bibi doing things according to Ben Gvir's will you can do that too and I'd agree LOL

But I think in Lebanon Hez's military power is also a huge threat

Lebanon probably want to avoid a civil war at any cost, imo it'd probably break it apart more than a war with Israel would

But yeah that's why I'm hopeful that this can shift things in the power dynamic

[trim flicker]

No hope for me personally, that just looks like a second Afghanistan waiting to happen 🙃 These groups can't die unless you stop giving them a reason to fight

There'd be nothing preventing Hez from raising to power later, the power dynamic can shift for a bit but the 100k+ members they have will still be there

[toxic spoke]

ik this is old message but as of 30 mins ago they said they got him

[eager parrot]

There's essentially no chance this will at all calm things down even if the entire Hezbollah leadership and command structure is eliminated. They're not just a resistance group, they're a politically involved party that is also a business, social welfare and paramilitary group.

[trim flicker]

oh thanks for the update

[eager parrot]

You'll get a temporary power dynamics change and internal struggle, but they're a military force, not just a ragtag of guerilla fighters.

Of course they can't match up to a far more technologically advanced Israeli military.

Although to be fair, the only advanced thing IDF has shown is their extreme air superiority and air force being far ahead. On the ground, they haven't even finished up in a 150 mile strip of land they had full blockade, surveillance and control over for 20 years...

Conscript armies be like that.

Leveling six blocks of skyscrapers with bunker busters just to kill 6 Hezbollah leadership figures though... imagine if the US was this ambitious, could have gotten Bin Laden so much sooner.

[pale flower]

The on-ground fighting in Gaza is very very complicated because it includes guerilla fighting in a built up area, where Hamas have many many underground tunnels that they have built up over the past 15 years or so. Israel may have stopped weapons going into Gaza via its borders with the strip/via sea, but there were still enough building materials going into Gaza for them to use to build those tunnels + weapons being smuggled in (most likely across the Egyptian border)

[eager parrot]

That's the official line, yeah

still doesn't explain how they haven't been able to achieve their goals a year in for an enclave that they have full control over with a 300K strong army.

all they've done is blown every bit of infrastructure to smithereens with the aforementioned air force.

[pale flower]

They're not currently using that 300k strong army, and a majority of that number aren't fighters - a lot of the initial conscripts are currently inactive and much of the fighting in Gaza (since around January) has turned into dealing with fighters wherever they pop up rather than an organized militia.
Besides that though, officials currently say 23 out of 24 Hamas batallions have been destroyed, many of the fighters surrendered/were taken out and their main leader Sinwar has been out of contact for the past few weeks or so.

[eager parrot]

If they were genuine about their actions instead of claiming to be the most moral army, I would respect it a bit tbh. Like just say "we are going to destroy it all, raze it all down to the ground and leave nothing left" like some of the Kahanist politicians there say.

Instead, whatever IDF and the various agencies there do, it's "rightful and justified", including razing schools, hospitals, etc. and even destroying entire blocks of buildings in another country's capital. When the ones supposedly resisting, especially those who believe they are resisting genocide do it, then it's terrorism. It's a nice double standard to always believe one is in the right for their actions.

[pale flower]

I'd really prefer you reply to my points cause rn this isn't much of a discussion LOL

[eager parrot]

But as I've said before, you can't stop people from resisting genocide, and really, that's also what Israel is doing. They're resisting a sort of long-term ingrained idea that they are going to have that happen to them. And they would be right, it has happened a few times to their peoples.

They just happen to be militarily superior right now.

[eager parrot]

There's not much for rebuttal there as that's just the official line of the Israeli news, politicians and IDF spokespeople. I don't have counterexamples or statistics to reply to them.

They've kicked out or killed most other non-favorable journalistic outfits.

All I know is that the 1 year anniversary is coming up and the Gaza operation is far from wrapped up. And another front, possibly much worse, is opening up.

[pale flower]

Fair enough I suppose
I think the best solution would be for Hamas to surrender but since that isn't happening I think Israel has to keep going

[eager parrot]

As I said, you can't stop people from resisting genocide, whether it be Israelis, or Palestinians.

It's a never ending cycle.

IDF can do the victory dance George Bush style, 'mission accomplished' and all that, but it's never going to end.

Not in our lifetimes.

[pale flower]

Days will tell

Probably more like "decades will tell" but still

[eager parrot]

This conflict far predates either of us being alive, and will far outlast either of us being alive.

[pale flower]

I agree with the former but not with the latter

In fact as an Israeli I would love nothing more than to see this conflict end, and if I were to give up on my hope of that happening then it definitely won't

[eager parrot]

As morbid and cold as it may sound, the only way it'll end is if you finish it, you won't find peace with the other side as long as they exist where they currently are.

If Trump wins, which is what Bibi is hoping for, what I predict will happen is the greenlight for Israel to formally annex west bank and gaza, and ensuing deaths and displacements. But it'll be outcast and distracted from by Ukraine being forced to give up land for the Russia-Ukraine conflict ending, a far worse embarrassment for the west.

[pale flower]

I mean, that's why I'm for changing the current situation as a whole

Israel doesn't want to annex Gaza for demographic reasons as far as I understand

[eager parrot]

Sure it does, Israel just doesn't want the people currently there.

Let's be honest here.

[hoary charm]

pretty sure thats why she said demographic reasons..

[eager parrot]

Point being they don't want a separate state there, and they're doing all they can to make sure the demographics there cannot recover or will choose to relocate push comes to shove.

[pale flower]

I don't really care about land (though yes of course extremist kahanists do) but Israel has no plans to get rid of everyone there

[eager parrot]

Of course, I've never said you are a personal believer in that kind of kahanist mindset. Most people in Israel don't subscribe to such extremist views I'm certain.

But color me skeptical on that point with regards to the authorities in charge. They certainly are doing their best in the west bank with respect to the land and the people. What makes their intents in Gaza any different?

[pale flower]

Yeah it's a very very extreme faction of people who do, so I'd rather you not use their talking points when it comes to Israel's policies

[pale flower]

I agree West Bank is a shitshow when it comes to how Israel has handled it and the leaders on both sides should work harder to actually foster cooperation between the two nations rather than spewing hatred/blame on one another (as is currently the situation for both parties involved)

[eager parrot]

Don't take this the wrong way, but they're an integral part of the governing coalition right now, how else are their talking points to be perceived?

[pale flower]

While the Kahanists do want to resettle Gaza, most Israelis just want to rebuild the Israeli communities that have currently been destroyed by this war and the initial Oct 7th attacks

[eager parrot]

They're not just talking points when they are being turned into policies and matters of intent.

[pale flower]

Yeah I agree that they're a massive issue, but a few years from now (at max) they will not be part of the government

[eager parrot]

When Ben-Gvir goes to west bank and hands out assault rifles to the settlers to take care of their own business in his words, and then gangs of these settlers go and wreck havoc in palestinian communities, with police forces supporting them, like is that an outlier?

[pale flower]

So saying that this is the reason there will NEVER be a solution to the issue - I just don't agree

The truth of the matter is that the majority of Israelis seek peace and safety and they will eventually vote for a party that will ensure that rather than a party that'll keep the flames of conflict going

[eager parrot]

That I will agree with entirely. I hope you are right. I genuinely do.

[pale flower]

And I hope they're out of the government sooner than later because both externally and internally everyoneeeeee has had enough of them

I will say that while I myself find Bibi incredibly hard to trust, he has never openly stated that the goal of this war is to resettle Gaza, but to demilitarize it and that's what I really hope will happen because right now the current governing powers in Gaza want nothing for the actual betterment of the people living there

I hope that the people who live there have had enough of this entire conflict as much as I and many Israelis have because we're just tired of the bloodshed

I wish I could know what they truly think because right now a lot of their opinions are being silenced

I don't expect them to like Israel or anything like that, I probably wouldn't if I were in their position either, but the powers that govern Gaza have forced a war upon its people that led to many many civilians losing their lives and there NEEDS to be a change in power

[eager parrot]

I just think that's simply delaying the inevitable reoccurrence of this all. I know the two-state solution has been official policy in the west for decades, but it just hasn't worked. I wonder if as part of voting in a peace and safety oriented party a different approach might work better.

I get the demographic concerns, but giving them all citizenship, annexing and rebuilding the place to have actual power (electricity) first might go a long way of fixing this instead of looking at yet another change in palestinian authority power. The vast majority of the people there are very young, might not be too difficult to change their minds instead of letting the resistance/terrorist groups do it.

[pale flower]

Yeah I understand this solution too, but I also find it less realistic at the moment until we see some leaders on both sides rise to lead the two nations towards a prosperous cooperation

[eager parrot]

Oh for sure, it's not something remotely plausible right now. As implausible as a real two-state system.

[pale flower]

Because internally both sides hate each other right now and it's like putting your two kids in a room while they're fighting and waiting for them to stop LOL

[eager parrot]

Kids being the key word, the boomers need to move on to the next life so the kids can figure it out.

Your generation would be a lot more open to the idea of a single unified democratic state than this eternal conflict.

[pale flower]

There's this peace activist called Rudy Rochman that I really appreciate (for his peace efforts and calm debate) who mentioned that the change needs to come from the bottom up rather than from our leaders, which I agree with a lot more

But I do think that currently a lot of the leaders' policies stand in the way of that change happening

[eager parrot]

A lot of Palestinians co-exist peacefully with full citizenship inside Israel as Israelis right now. So it clearly can work, just have to get the timing and process finetuned. But as you say, there needs to be a will for that in the leadership, and it has to arise from the bottom up for the leaders representing the people to reflect such positions. It'll be a long arduous process. It just feels more plausible than trying to get two sides to co-exist separately side by side. Just my opinion.

[pale flower]

Yep I think the same way

[pale flower]

I do think you'll really like his content on Youtube btw, much of what he says is the same as what you just mentioned

Except he actually actively works towards making that change

https://www.youtube.com/@RudyRochman

[eager parrot]

Ah I remember watching some of his content. I believe Daniel Levy, a former peace negotiator for Israel, posted a link to his channel before, or maybe mentioned it in an interview.

[pale flower]

He often does work with Palestinian activists too which is really great

[eager parrot]

There are very intelligent people working from the inside trying to make things work. There always are. Good to see it.

It's just bad timing that extremists have the government by the figurative balls right now. And not just in Israel or Palestine or Lebanon or Syria or Yemen or Iran. It's in much of the world currently sadly.

[pale flower]

Yepppp

A big hope of mine is that more moderate leaders can rise up soon across the world

[eager parrot]

I hope I'm wrong but I suspect things will first get a lot worse globally before they get better

pendulum swings and all that

[pale flower]

Yep

I'm just hoping we're at the worst part of the swing at the moment

[eager parrot]

let's hope so

the after is often more prosperous, the sooner we get there the better

[pale flower]

Yep here's praying 🙏

[vital needle]

Everyone I disagree with = bad faith

[eager parrot]

hey now collarbone, no need to out yourself as one of the people dust was referring to

[vital needle]

There is a need because passive aggressiveness is childish

[eager parrot]

dust just doesn't like commies

but yeah discussions here can sometimes get a bit heated and in bad faith

I hope I don't contribute to it, but if I do, I apologize

[vital needle]

Nah thats fine

[eager parrot]

my dad was in a communist club growing up

it's how he met my mom

but after we moved to the US, he became a staunch conservative, it's weird

[oak lodge]

how interesting

[vital needle]

The us does that to people

[eager parrot]

he says US conservative movement is more alike to soviet communism than anything else.

in his words "real communism" whatever that means

I don't get it either, I don't try to argue with him

he's a big scary man despite his age

[vital needle]

Is he a soviet or what?

[half heath]

sounds weird

[eager parrot]

he's danish

my mom has some soviet background but also danish

so yeah, collarbone, you're welcome to become republican, the red is intentional

[oak lodge]

you didn't hear? It flips when you cross into the states

[eager parrot]

hahaha it's weird right?

most anglo countries, the red is liberal/labor/grits/etc

the blue is tories/conservatives

[oak lodge]

[vital needle]

You know what, here it goes.

Yes, a one state solution is the best one. The issue is that it cant happen under the current state of Israel becaue it is explicity a state for and by jewish people, if they were to let palestinians in peacefully it would void its ethnonationalist and religious character (which is what I believe dayana would call "demographic reasons"). For that reason, the Israeli state must be abolished and redone. Now, people are not a state. Abolishing a state does not mean killing everyone inside its borders. Apartheid south africa was abolished, rhodesia was abolished, new states not based on racial supremacy were built up on those territories. In the same vein, apartheid Israel must be abolished, and that means making it a regular state and not a jewish state, acknowledging the existence and rights of the colonized people who are not jewish. The only slightly moral way to do this is granting the right of return to all of those displaced during the nakba , with monetary compensation for all which was stolen from them and granting them full rights under this new secular and multicultural state (this also goes for victims of the current genocide who lost everything).

Let's not forget that Hamas is an Israeli creation and displacing and murdering hundreds of thousands is not an acceptable thing to do under any circumstances, and saying that "Israel should keep going" like daya said is just genocide apology. There is no other word for it, it is disgusting and betrays a deeply lacking sense of morality and you can only think it is acceptable if you view palestinians and their suffering as less than. But dust, schmali and the enlightened centrists will call me bad faith again for not being willing to find the middle ground between genocide and not genocide, and for having a strong belief in something, god forbid. Oh and for having a hammer and sickle in my pfp. Kairu, youre welcome to reply to whoever talks to me about this with a snarky "heh, you know youre replying to a commie right?" and then cowardly run away

[oak lodge]

they're centrists?

[vital needle]

Careful god dont talk to me or you may get the commie cooties

Next thing you know you will be reading boring ass books that make you depressed

[oak lodge]

I have no relation with this man

[hoary charm]

damn even i got a shout out, must've rustled some feathers

[vital needle]

Yeah you live rent free in my mind you really got me

😦

[pale flower]

Before I answer the rest let me just start by asking you why you think a one state solution is the best one in your eyes. What would the state in question look like? Why would the two state solution not work in much of the same manner?

That's without answering any of the disgusting accusations you throw my way btw, that's why people call you a bad faith discusser

Which is also why I personally have no real interest in changing your opinion on any of this, like I've said before

[marsh oracle]

Yep, glad to see you finally calling out hamas and hezbollah for using human shields by constantly hiding among civilians intentionally

Typing all that without acknowledging that hamas would continue killing jews is pretty impressive tbh

[dusky rapids]

what i consider bad faith: #1042073107554381864 message

and the one-line sarcastic responses, and the labelling. all of which are not productive to discussion, what i consider bad faith.

of course you aren't the only person who's done that here, others do that too, including what you've mentioned here.

but when people take issue with your conduct, easy to think it's because they just can't accept your ideology. and use that to justify further unconstructive comments.

i get that for everyone here, such comments may be logical consequences of your worldview so no issue for you. but it ends up quickly derailing discussion so

.
but that's just what i consider bad faith, and everyone here is gonna have different metrics

the foundation of productive discussion is a common understanding of how to engage in that discussion to begin with, which idt is happening here at all
(and lbr it's not gonna happen)

would be convenient to just defer judgment to the m0ds, but i think it's pretty clear how anyone on the receiving end of m0dding will just claim it's about ideology rather than conduct

and i wouldn't trust anyone here to be an impartial arbiter either, no one's an expert in mediation so

[fossil basin]

i will say something, i'd not bring AI to a political conversation

[near jetty]

oops lol

[fossil basin]

not "discussing" about AI, but rather asking advice from AI about a rather serious matter

I'd rather read Audre Lorde to gain political insight

[vital needle]

I think a one state is best because separsting states on the basis of religion naturally leads to religious extremists runnim the state, the same happened to india and pakistan where two sets of people lived side by side and then partition happened and now their respective governments hate each other. Before the creation of israel jews also lived there with minimal levels of violence

[marsh oracle]

Lol

[oak lodge]

it simply isn't enough.

[fossil basin]

reading a prominent activist would be more enough than trusting AI?

[pale flower]

Oh also let me just make something clear - 20% of Israel currently is Arab-Muslims, that's not including WB or Gaza
But also like, the religious extremists exist now too, and they'll continue to exist even if a one state solution comes about. How do you make sure ethnic/religious conflict doesn't arise again despite that?

[hoary charm]

claude 3.5 sonnet never failed me

[oak lodge]

I'm talking to no one. Imagine this gif

[dusky rapids]

damn i was expecting a lot more than that

after seeing you type for so long

give me some divine wisdom

[fossil basin]

this is the fault of ethno-states or religious-states, you'd have to make it a multi-nation/multi-religious state

which is hard, but like, ethno-states at one point or another leads to rise of fascism within the states

it's not as simple done than said, but one has to start from somewhere, and there are not a lot of states that are currently managing to expand their occupation borders for combatting an entity they themselves have created before

[oak lodge]

"Prefer not to speak" or whatever that football chap says

[fossil basin]

people, politicians and states simply do not want to take accountability for their own actions, but it has to start somewhere

[oak lodge]

don't ask jokingly lol

[fossil basin]

"trying to expand" is another thing, a lot of states are attempting to do that

[fossil basin]

i know why Turkish political stature is as expansionist and racist as it gets is because Turkey being created as an ethno-state despite having important minorities within, big mistake

surprisingly there are a lot of similarities between Turkey and Israel

[vital needle]

Man it sounds like you still believe Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. It really is a worthless point here

[blazing depot]

Turkey also have already done their own share of doing a little bit of genocide, got it out of their system.

[fossil basin]

yep

and also the mindset of "we did not ethnically cleanse them" and "if we did i am glad we did ethnically cleanse them/should have cleansed them" rotating simultaneously

[marsh oracle]

I mean if you wanna deny that hamas very intentionally uses civilian regions or protected infrastructure to conduct their military operations like missile strikes, youre just wrong

[fossil basin]

both cannot be true at the same time

[marsh oracle]

Hamas loves nothing more than palestinian civilian casualties cause they know the International community will only blame israel for them

Looks like nasrallahs death is confirmed now?

[trim flicker]

Yep hamas does do that
The thing about human shields is that you're not supposed to blow them up tho

[vital needle]

Religious and ethnic conflicts don't happen out of the blue, in this specific case it happens because one set of people wronged the other by invading their land and stealing their stuff, and the government is set up to validate this practice. If you take steps to remedy the harm that was done and set up a new government that isnt explicity partial to one side extremism will not disappear but it will fail to gain traction among most of the population who tends to be apolitical or neutral. Also, lets say this one state exists tomorrow and hamas doesnt go away. This new government would be able to surveil and hunt it without needing to destroy whole citied for that to happen, and the destruction of cities is what makes people angry enough to join hamas. Violence may not cease 100%, but it will stop looking like this, maybe it will start looking like the american war on drugs, which isnt ideal but its a big step up.

I dont know if i spoke well enough I am eepy

[trim flicker]

You know, don't kill the civilians

[blazing depot]

Yeah, I'm sure they were hiding in and under every single bit of the 70% of infrastructure that Israel bombed back into the stone age in Gaza.

Like damn, Hamas must have way more fighters than anyone eve rthought

[oak lodge]

the backpedaling onto reactionary rhetoric about killings when it happens very obviously and rampant by not enforcing inclusion/two-state abolition on a constitutional level is; ideologically, looking in -- a recurring inconsistency.

[trim flicker]

Hamas does use human shields but the way Israel uses that as an excuse to indiscriminately bomb civilians in insane

[marsh oracle]

I feel like in general people understimate just how many civilians die in wars

Like the current conflict in gaza isnt even that out of the ordinary in terms of civilian casualty ratio

[trim flicker]

....?

[oak lodge]

are you kidding? Of course as most of the conflicts involving the first world in the last few decades is not on home soil

[trim flicker]

Yeah so it's fine

[marsh oracle]

Its war

[vital needle]

Say that about putin please

[marsh oracle]

Obviously war is bad for exactly this reason

[vital needle]

I wanna test a thing

[blazing depot]

I mean, if you wanna argue like that, in Ukraine it's around 12k dead civilians since the war started 2 1/2 years ago. In Gaza it's 40k+. Tfw. even Putin is showing more restraint.

[pale flower]

A lot of the arguments come down to the idea of intentionality as far as I understand. For example I don't think the civilian deaths are intentional, others do and that affects how you see the conflict

[trim flicker]

They're very clearly intentional

[pale flower]

40k is the total dead, not split by civilians/militants

[oak lodge]

[fossil basin]

i am overall against existence of ethno-states, whatever based on nationality or religion

[marsh oracle]

Yea ukraine actually has clear military targets and putin would be sanctioned even harder if he intentionally targetted civilians (even more than they already did)

[blazing depot]

You're right, only about 83% of those were civilians, much better

[fossil basin]

if a one-state solution was the one to happen, it has to be a multi-ethnic and multi-religion state, without being ruled based on religion

[vital needle]

I believe thats direct kills too not counting starvation and disease caused by the lack of infrastructure and the blockade on humanitarian aid

[marsh oracle]

No thats the current death count

[fossil basin]

it's not easy to totally put trust on official counts due administrative reach issues, lack of press coverage and also, identity confirmation issues, not only for this conflict but also a lot other

[pale flower]

Okayy I think that's my patience running out for the day LOL y'all have fun

[fossil basin]

historically it is not easy to count all deaths, a lot of missing counts that are unknown are deaths or not

[marsh oracle]

Unless you wanna cite the 300k from that lancet article which was an estimate for the next 15 years or something

[blazing depot]

As for intentionality Daya, please let's not pretend your current government does not want to very directly k,ill every single Palestinian they can, being the right wing extremists they are. They've said as much very openly.

[pale flower]

The right wing extremists do, not the whole government

That's one or two portions of the coalition and they're the smallest ones iirc

[vital needle]

Btw @pale flower now that we are talking nicely i have a question that isnt bait or anything. Do you think its really necessary to block humanitarian aid or not? Like, what ar your thoughts in that practice

[fossil basin]

The majority consensus of israeli politics are not in too different lines in terms of foreign policies, similar with turkish politics that is

[marsh oracle]

The smallest parts of coalitions have this annoying habit of making themselves the most important

[vital needle]

I have no idea what a lancet even is

[fossil basin]

Especially when people do not let the state be criticized, and say "state and governments are different", but it does not mean states are not able to get criticized and hold accountable

[blazing depot]

Thing is, those extremists largely form policy because without them the whole thing would fall apart, you can't distinguish there any more at that point. NY deeply afraid of losing his power and being held accountable, so he gives them what he wants.

[fossil basin]

lancet is an health magazine

does not help that jingoist policies are a bipartisan one across general populace in a lot of states

[pale flower]

I don't think humanitarian aid should be blocked, I think initially it was more like a verbal threat considering we had so many hostages get taken and so many people brutally killed and burned. Part of me understands the reasoning behind it but I don't think it'd actually help. I think currently the biggest issue with humanitarian aid is that a lot of it gets stolen and resold by Hamas, but that just means there needs to be a different mechanism set up so that the citizens can get the aid directly without having to buy it from militants

[pale flower]

And yes of course I agree they have a lot of say in the coalition but it also doesn't mean Bibi IS listening to every single request of theirs. I think when it comes to hostage deals he certainly is, but not when it comes to their crazy kahanist ambitions

I'll also add that recently in Israeli politics there's been moves to add Gideon Saar to the coalition to weaken the exteremists' power within the coalition

[marsh oracle]

But yea, I guess killing nasrallah and apparently most of hezbollahs military leadership is one way to deescalate, lets see how long it lasts

[pale flower]

And the one leading those moves has been Bibi. He was looking to replace ministry of defense Gallant with Saar instead, but that broke through once the attacks in Lebanon took priority (Saar has very little actual military experience). They do still seem to work towards expanding the coalition by offering him a different position, though obviously with everything that happened these past two weeks that's been put on the backburner for now.

I agree though Bibi is still being a politician rather than a leader, most of the time. I understand why it's hard to trust his word and most of the time I don't either

[fossil basin]

I cannot ask you to completely change your political opinions, but I will ask one simple thing:

Please do not abbreviate Netanyahu as Bibi

He is not the one to make Vengeance

[near jetty]

i look up this saar guy and my god this is the moderate

[pale flower]

LOL bro I'm Israeli it's how we refer to him on a daily basis

[near jetty]

yeah its cooked

[pale flower]

Oh he's not a moderate

[fossil basin]

it's like there being another dictator named Gowon

[pale flower]

The moderates in our country would be more like, Benny Gantz. Left leaning is Yair Lapid and Yair Golan.

[near jetty]

would be better off with having the better saar from the washington wizards

[vital needle]

Is he an alien inside a black ball by any chance

[pale flower]

...Huh?

Alright you know what this is what I deserve for trying to talk about politics in a kpop server LMAO

I'm gonna go watch Youtube

[blazing depot]

It's an anime reference

[pale flower]

I'm glad 😭

First a BIBI reference now an anime reference

[trim flicker]

Many such cases folks

Kamala is operating transgender aliens inside the black balls that's what i hear

[marsh oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/bibi-blocksberg-action-broom-flying-witch-gif-15247637

[blazing depot]

Hey, if you wanna lighten things uphttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYgJtIpXUAAtAyI.jpg:orig

Evil Google masterminds be like

[marsh oracle]

Bibi Blocksberg flying to another un meeting while his military is planning to take out the main hezbollah guy

[trim flicker]

LOL

[hoary charm]

qanon is randomly capitalizing words in his tweets

what does it mean

[vital needle]

Im not an anime guy but i like the manga a lot

[marsh oracle]

Is comrade kamala harris still his best name for her

Hes so washed

At least do comradala or something