#Dragon Invasion Selling should be Surcharge Price

101 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

low ledge
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As of right now DI is a huge gold drain with no incentive to actually contribute in event past goals as it always ends in a loss. I would recommend putting DI selling as the surcharge price of the item, allowing both benefits for players while it still being capped at 40 items a day. This might be pretty op but with current base prices being high during DI anyways, it both incentivizes crafting and selling on market too. If there's a better way to balance, please mention down below.

To counter the claim that this would create inflation, with the release of t13 and the speed of profit drastically increasing, it would not create too much of an issue with gold during invasion especially with the event only being 5 days a month and makes it enjoyable for growth for all players. All other events help the player grow while DI slows down growth, making it a slog in comparison.

sudden imp
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This needs to happen. DI is a huge drain on gain. There is no upside to the event outside of the reward track. Every other event brings in growth opportunities while DI holds you back.

desert river
pine marlin
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I don't put items in DI unless inventory clearing low tier stuff.

desert river
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Yeah DI for me is clear out the trash from polo steals and stuff that I didn't use

pine marlin
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You only need 140k points,.decent setup and you have to do 2-4 waves of heroes only. It's literally the easiest event

low ledge
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Its not due to easiness but rather for the event to actually benefit the player more, for example both lcog and TOT provide ample fodder etc

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My guild finishes within 2 days thats not the problem

pine marlin
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Dragon marks have a value unparalleled to the other events imo. So losing some gold to get those marks seems pretty fair to me. I'd sacrifice my whole inventory if it meant more dragon marks. Those things are super useful

low ledge
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Then I would understand it if we got more points for every 1mil or 100k past the end goal etc but right now theres no reason to keep going

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If thats the change it would work too

pine marlin
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Then I'd agree with what your getting at addition incentive.

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I'd love to chalk my whole inventory in for a few hundred marks. Gonna need tens of thousands of em

low ledge
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yep

pine marlin
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The whole surcharging part I disagree with for only one reason. What if you can't surcharge that item normally, bypassing it seems pretty broken, even if for only a few items

indigo laurel
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Mind this: you exchange your gold by dragonmarks... Is a great deal

low ledge
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and very few people would be able to abuse it and would be temperary too

scarlet pawn
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It’s kind like surcharge for me. The item I gear to my troopers are usually my discount fodders 😅

indigo laurel
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I make 160 runes (spirits and elemental) through the month, and buy:
20 Tyrant Plate Armor (6.5m each)
20 Hunter Moccasins (7m each)
20 Lost Star Chart (7m each)
20 Hotshot Carbine (7-8m each -i have the bp)

Is a total investment of 640m gold by all and i can take 100k points only this way.

And with my heroes, i complete the rest of the points to claim all the rewards (480 DM). Each DM cost me 1.3m

low ledge
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My heroes alone can finish it thats not my problem, just want to have incentive to even use the gear donate

sudden imp
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those are 160 runes and gold spent that could have been used elsewhere. the opportunity cost negates the value we're asking for

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it would be nice to be incentivized outside of the reward track. LCOG you get piles of fodder/keys and chests on top of the reward track and KC you are mastering BPs (as normal) on top of the reward track

indigo laurel
low ledge
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Please tell me you are not using dragon marks to speed up upgrades....

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U gotta same them for getting stuff from 15-20

scarlet pawn
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Ohh well, they are cheaper than gem rush.

sudden imp
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so.... those resources you're using to craft runes could be used to master other bps or to craft t13 for example and the gold you spend on getting those items off market could be used on literally anything else. again this is not about completion. it is about making the use of items worth more than just the reward track

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this is the only event where you are sinking profit into the event and not getting additional reward to compensate

indigo laurel
wild snow
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Free surcharge on 40 double enchanted t13s every day definitely wouldn't be balanced by any stretch of imagination.

wild snow
sudden imp
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the point of the idea was to add benefit outside of the reward track like any other event. if people think surcharge is too broken thats fine. its a suggestion that is all it is. additionally i have a separate suggestion to reward small DI coins or KC tokens past completion which could achieve this.

wild snow
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I think we had a hard no on "rich get richer" and going over event final reward for extra rewards idea.

wild snow
pine marlin
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It's just an example anyways (and I'm level 70, so that's still bypass what I can do)

wild snow
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On that note, had a guildmate that gave up on surcharging after t9 or so, didn't even have energy to surcharge t10 iirc, they just sold everything in shop for base value. lv81 and had something around 1k max energy...

prisma gust
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Everybody looks at DI as a loss, and I don't understand that. It's 40 customers you would otherwise not have had. I understand the argument, "But I could have surcharged that!" ... I mean, some of it? If y'all out here surcharging every single sale, I need to know what I'm doing wrong. Were you going to have at least 40 customers today you didn't surcharge? Okay, well, there you go.
I'm sure someone better at math and more knowledgeable in the game mechanics than me could like, break down the, "If you play for 16 hours straight, and you have this level desk, and these level racks, and you maintain full inventory this is how many customers you get per hours so this is how many you get in 16 hours of playing, if you optimize customer flow" .... now take whatever number that is, and add 40, and you get... profit!

desert river
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Well, for me I generally always discount anything below the current max tier
DI gives me a way to theoretically get more money than I would have cause it's 40 flat sales instead of 40 discounted sales 😛

south copper
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And its probably the best sale per min ratio

sudden imp
prisma gust
# sudden imp I basically treat all my t11 and under as fodder to surcharge t12 and t13. I pla...

I wasn't asking if you can hit 40 surcharges a day, I was asking if you surcharge everything. Because if you aren't, this is just 40 sales you wouldn't have had. Unless you surcharge every t12/t13 you sell, this isn't taking away from what you're doing. It feels like it is, because "Aw man, I could have surcharged that." But.... the reality is, probably not. And I'd say you're very likely getting as many surcharges as you do outside of DI. I mean, I work from home and have ST running on the other PC all the time, so... I play a lot too. DI costs me nothing, and adds to what I get. Like, don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to give me double value for everything I put on the boat, but.... the fact that they don't doesn't mean I'm losing something.

sudden imp
# prisma gust I wasn't asking if you can hit 40 surcharges a day, I was asking if you surcharg...

That’s what I’m saying I surcharge every t12 t13 and any items I would donate regardless is fodder I don’t have or surcharge items that don’t get surcharged. I look at it as the opportunity cost of what I’m not gaining being it energy or gold when donating items. You are losing out on energy from discounting fodder or surcharge potential in this event if you chose to contribute items to it.

prisma gust
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Wow... if you're surcharging every T12 and T13, you're playing on an entirely different level. That's all I can say.

sudden imp
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Yes I realize that there are different ways to play and people at different levels so it is interesting to hear other takes but I don’t see why we can’t find a way to make DI more player friendly like the other events is all! 😃

scarlet pawn
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I don't surcharge t13 now. They are pretty decent fodders for discount to get more energy ❤️

vapid jetty
# wild snow I don't really see a need for it, the rewards far outweigh potential loss and DI...

while I agree that OP's idea is ... op, they mentioned that if someone has a better idea please comment. It is a good suggestion just for that alone.

I have to completely disagree with your opinion on this though. Please consider the simple fact that not everyone is as far into the game as you are, and not everyone has über heroes. If my heroes are not great, they contribute almost nothing to the event. I contribute much more by items than what my dudes can help, even with boosters. Crafting 40 items plus 80 enchantments/spirits per day is a HUGE time drain when you are trying to help the guild the best you can, I literally put everything else on hold during DI and just spam the stuff I need for it for the duration of the event.

Not everyone has the same strategy and not everyone is on the same level in the game so if we want to talk about making it balanced we have to consider balance for lower levels too, right?

If one item takes me a little over an hour to make, that's 40 hours per 24 hours that I'd need just for the items. Divide that into the crafting slots and that is something like 6-7 hours locked for crafting(considering 7 slots, which not everyone has), plus 80 enchantments that take at least 20mins each if you do crappy T7 ones. This is considering you are there everytime to collect and re-craft. How is it not time intensive? Well obviously when you have heroes that are good enough so that you can donate whatever and still achieve the goals then you don't have to worry about half the event, but is that "balanced"? Having heroes that good is end game and the event can't be balanced only for end-game players I'd argue.

I'm not talking about profit, because honestly I care more about the time. I spend the event doing nothing else since I have neither crafting slots nor resources for it and that is just honestly quite boring gameplay.

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Now keep in mind I am not proposing that lower levels somehow need to reach the last rewards, I am saying that for me just to keep up and "do my best" I need to dedicate the whole week solely to the event and that is not balanced compared to other events. At the same level I can easily contribute to KC without burning myself out and being unable to do other things like champion requests or bounties.

wild snow
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Seems like you are completely forgetting that you can prepare items for DI ahead of time. For instance you can easily be sitting on 80ish enchanted items before it even starts and you have over 20 days to prepare those items.

Also, if majority of your participation is items than maybe it's time to touch up on heroes. You do not need "über" heroes like you called them. 4 somewhat solid heroes in flawless gear should definitely do as much (probably significantly more) than donated gear.

fossil minnow
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Hi, I just want to throw around my 2 cents. I am mostly crafting tier7, with one line at tier 9.
My guild helps during DI and so most of the "lower" levels, as in, has the market level but cant craft them yet can request the needed items, that are given by different people that dont mind crafting the extra items to help the ones that cant.
I got mostly tier 10, and some tier 9 this month, the only thing i crafted were the enchantments to put in them, I cant even surcharge tier 9, how broke would it be if i got the given tier 10 surcharged?

wild snow
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And imho prep for DI is no different than saving bugles for lcog or compasses for tot

vapid jetty
# wild snow Seems like you are completely forgetting that you can prepare items for DI ahead...

Sorry but I just have nowhere near 80 free slots of storage for DI items😅 even though I get that point and it is valid. I just don't have them myself nor do I hear other news from guildmates other than "storage is full again". I agree that when you have the book percentage higher then you probably don't have so much bs clogging up storage, but I understand this is a very common situation for at least mid-game.

Yes I have to touch up my heroes, but hear me out, if I have heroes that are good enough to clear the content I am presented with, they should either be better at DI or I should be "pushed" lower in the progression. If I am clearing Sunken Temple then they can't be completely horrible, yet I am halfway through my donations to this round and already have double points for that compared to my heroes. Heroes that can clear T11 dungeon (which was the second highest tier) I think it was the third highest, not the second, so T10(which was what I meant to say since T10 items) should not give a third of the points compared to donating T10 items with T7 enchants. That seems logical to me, outside of the whole time and storage situation

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Actually I will correct my previous msg.

wild snow
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And here comes the issue where DI contribution for heroes is based on "power" which is not a good statistic.
My friend is lv55ish and he has 2 ninjas whose sole purpose of existence is easy/inflated star power for DI.

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Epic weapon with rest being greens and some crit related skills and he got them to 90k "power" without actually being good heroes

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To be fair, I've never really experienced early game DI.
Best I know is my friend's mid-game scenario of power inflated heroes + donating enchanted t9s and t10s he preps ahead of time but it lets him clear it with only donating ~20 enchanted items per day. Rest is unenchanted whites

vapid jetty
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Again, not saying I should reach the end with my setup, but DI has been a huge time drain for me since the start of the game because of the crafting. Crafting has always been a better contribution than heroes and I believe it is true for** most** people until they reach higher levels and start having proper rosters.

I feel like what OP was getting at is that if you have heroes that can "solo" the event, you are still "supposed to" donate, the game incentivises you to, but there is no reward for that, so in that sense the item system could use some work. For people whose heroes don't handle the event, the crafting is very intensive so for me it has been by far the most time consuming event, since I am crafting my best BPs that take the rarest mats and longest times. If I could feed it T7-9's and be done with it then it'd be so much better, but at max crafting unlocked tier of 11 I feel compelled to use the best I can craft reliably.

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Yeah I mean, having heroes for it is fair enough, I do it for TOT so having some for DI is on par. I just feel like for both options this is kinda cheesing the objective and shouldn't be the norm 😅 but I'll look into a couple DI heroes myself, thanks for the tip!

south copper
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But nobody is forcing you. Just put in what you want. Even if its low tier stuff. I just smack in whatever I have stFaceHappy

vapid jetty
wild snow
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It's definitely not ideal that good heroes rank lower than not as good ones because of how power is calculated.

Also, there's always the "I want to get all the rewards" part when they're kinda not there yet that gets to plenty of players.

vapid jetty
# wild snow It's definitely not ideal that good heroes rank lower than not as good ones beca...

yeah but tbh I havn't built heroes for DI so I just used my best ones and not looked much into it, so can't talk much about the fairness of power, don't know the calculations for it.

And for sure, there's probably a time-window where people have that just-out-of-reach goal that bothers them, but I personally was talking more about just keeping up while progressing through the game, as DI has always been like this for me

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as a TL:DR I'd say: non-optimized for DI OR late-game heroes equals a lot of crafting for the event, which may make it super time-intensive for some people that want to contribute(which is the objective of the event anyway). After having heroes that can handle the event, half the event is pointless and doesn't increase your rewards, so it could be looked into.

wild snow
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Power favours crit builds A LOT.
It makes bad crit heroes able to have more power than a really solid non-crit build.

Also, the dragon marks from DI are mainly late/end-game currency so DI being a bit skewed towards late game seems acceptable

south copper
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I dont have optimized heroes at all. You just need a few good heroes. Mine are all wearing t11 stFaceHappy

vapid jetty
vapid jetty
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to bring in a "player going up through the game" POV, since I assume both of you have been up there for long enough so that these things are not as fresh a memory

wild snow
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DI is pretty recent.
Back in our day t8 lcog bps were a big thing. We're dinosaurs.
Actually, tbh, there were no events when I started playing. T7 max tier and such.

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So you could say early game isn't a fresh memory.

agile hedge
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i hoard stuff for di and my inventory is only really full shortly before di or during kc, if i craft a lot of lower items there. also i am nowhere near end-game yet and my heroes do wear at least t11. since i run epsilon tower now, i wouldn't even need to craft items for di as t11 normal stuff would be enough for my current heroes (they do 39k points with boosters at the moment)

vapid jetty
# agile hedge i hoard stuff for di and my inventory is only really full shortly before di or d...

Seeing as the "progress" the game has is its dungeons, me being on Sunken Temple which is 8/11 would put me in late-midgame. If you are running the highest level of TOT then that would be end-game, specially if you have unlocked Bleak, don't you agree? I mean you are not in the literal end of the game, but up until the T13 update would you say you aren't end-game until right to the point where you had a ""perfect"" roster? End-game isn't just the last little tip of content I'd argue. Now I am saying this not knowing what the player-per-level distribution is. Maybe most people are end-game and so that would artificially push end-game a bit further, but if the game is healthy then most players should be progressing through the ranks still

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Yeah @wild snow I guessed as much 😅 that's why I'm trying to just bring in a lower perspective, since we'd all like the game to be balanced at all levels. Now after this talk I'd say DI isn't as bad, the game just needs to make it clear it is a late-game event so that lower levels don't feel as much pressure to perform and also importantly so that their guilds don't expect that from them.

wild snow
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It's the only event impacted by both your heroes and your crafting which probably makes it a bit of a more complex one especially early on

agile hedge
# vapid jetty Seeing as the "progress" the game has is its dungeons, me being on Sunken Temple...

i would not agree, no. i am not anywhere close to end-game. my heroes are sometimes medium, sometimes not even that. i still have a lot of leveling to do to reach the last level. and there is very much stuff i still don't even think about as it's too far away for me at the moment.
being end-game surely isn't "oh yeah i've hit this point, now i'm end-game" but end-game is far more that "i could theoretically craft t11 or higher". also what i was saying is that i am perfectly capable to hoard the items, that i need for di from end of di to start of the next di. i sometimes need to craft a hand full of items, because i'm missing specific types but i don't need to craft a whole week only for di.

vapid jetty
# agile hedge i would not agree, no. i am not anywhere close to end-game. my heroes are someti...

I think it is different to say you are end-game from your point-of-view and from the game's point of view. In terms of content, and considering I don't know your game situation, I'd say you are probably end-game if you are clearing Epsilon and can craft T12's, specially since we are talking mostly of pre-T13 opinions. Now in terms of clearing the game, or "completing" it, you can still be far, but that doesn't mean it isn't end-game, since end-game isn't the game's end but the level at which the content starts to wane and you focus more on honing your skills(or in this case heroes) and perfecting gameplay. I'd say "actual end-game" is when you start having noting to do, but the end-game I'm talking about is when you can* think about* reaching the end of events, crafting the highest level blueprints, focusing on completing the book as a main goal, having the workers maxed etc. Now this is when you can think about it in a realistic way, not necessarily already being in the process of doing those things.. I'd say that is end-game content-wise.

As an example, über heroes is something we feel the need to have, but if you can max events and clear all dungeons with "good enough" heroes, then those heroes are end-game heroes even if some people have perfect ones that make yours look medium.

But in the end, this is a concept so we can't ever agree on an exact thing. To me the most important thing here is whether this event is balanced across all phases of the game, or as it has come to my attention, keep it late-game but make it more obvious it is that way.

Going away from the off-topic(which is my own fault), I'm not sure I can come up with an alternative or solution for what OP is suggesting. Maybe giving the respective energy for the donations would help, specially since it would proportionate the means for people to energy-rush their crafts? But it would also make it annoying to go away from that screen all the time.

stable arrow
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just donate all the fodder from titan tower

rich dirge
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"As of right now DI is a huge gold drain"
That...is the point of DI I think...it's an item sink and a partial gold sink due to the rake of people exchanging things. That's why they added TW to SH and that's why DI was added with this specific mechanic to ST IMO.

pine marlin
wild snow
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I guess SH is shop heroes
And, tw, no idea, trade wars?

south copper
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Its not that deep lol

wild snow
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It's not even a money sink. I sell half of my t13s without surcharge anyway. It's just extra 40 sales per day.

shrewd sun
bold karma
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I would love to see DI giving us surcharge. For me DI is a huge pain in the but and a huge loss in revenue. I am donating items items that I would normally surcharge. It would be nice to be excited DI is coming instead of dreading it.

sudden imp
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items you'd surcharge or items you'd otherwise use as fodder TO surcharge.

shrewd sun
lyric wolf
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I can see a lot of merit behind this idea. Gold is not that particularly valuable itself, look at the massive number of players looking to exchange their gold for gems, and the extremely scarce one or two per year that want to turn gems into gold. So having more gold enter the game isn't really going to disrupt much because everything actually important is time-gated (fusions, gems from events, chest/key acquisition, etc.)

If we were to entertain the idea the the DI items should be surcharged, I think there should be some limits though - they should not give exp. It shouldn't give players fast easy shopkeeper exp and gold at the same time. Let them have the meaningful choice if they want to forgo big exp in exchange for big gold.

I also think it should not be for all 200 items contributed during DI, that seems a little too lucrative, but also feels like it would encourage hoarding all month long and clogging up the already restrictive inventory limit. Perhaps let the player choose which category (weapon, armor, other armor, accessory) they want to have the surcharged sales for.

rich dirge
pine marlin
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You'd be injecting gold into the system from all players (regardless of tier potentially) meaning people that can't make way more gold than normal.

That said it could also means during DI that market prices go up, everything costs more.

raven slate
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Simple and easy fix...
surcharge items yes.
Only until you hit a certain point. Then goes back to regular.
To find Certain point in game can be divided by 20 guild members. And what takes to finish dragon invasion event. That way it works all around.
And dragon marks it is set in stone your not getting any extra from event. So if your guild is not finishing event maybe you need to find a better guild.
(Mic Drop) 🎤

low ledge
sweet anchor
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Actually this would probably increase the value of items across the board. Most teams I know are doing like two days of DI and then stopping once the guild hits full rewards, but with 100% surcharge, we'd be donating max tier items every day even if we'd finished the event since it would be 40 energy-free surcharges. In turn this would reduce the amount of items on market and jack up gold prices for said items. We'd all have a bit more money to sink where we needed it, but wouldn't really gain anything since all the prices of things inflated because of it 😛

low ledge
sweet anchor
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If you're losing billions maybe rethink how you're playing the event. I'd have to give them a lot more/better gear to be out billions at this point.

wild snow
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Billions? Dafuq are you donating xD

wild snow
rich dirge
bold karma
# wild snow Rich get richer is not happening.

Rich getting richer is the hole base of this game. When you have more money you invest in more costly upgrades which in turn allows you to make more money. If you don't want the rich to get richer you need to restructure the entire game.

rich dirge
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except....when they remove a design flaw like today 😄

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then the rich stop getting richer