Btw for the echelon finals: are they mix touch/pc?
#tourneys-discussion
vital obsidian
green sierra
@chilly terrace Tournament seedeng nneeds to look winrate and avarage damage, one example 2 teams have same avarage winrate of top 7 players 62% but avarage damage isnt same so even if both teams get good seeding in seperet groups and because it goes strongest-weakest teams that are classified as "weakest" have much higher chance to get top 3 places if they played against one of those two teams that had lower avarage damage
look ascent tour #1 (ticket) group 2 and teams in it (my team is V-F) and then look ascent tour #3 (ticket) group 4 and teams in it. Or look GNEIS team and their groups where they are always "strongest" and get so good groups to make it easier to win
crisp shore
Well we do get TESRH in the second round on one occasion though. I believe we only get 2 good groups so far. Also our Saturday groups are never nice.
thorn shale
Look at how Von did on the NA server, they rigged their wr by adding rerolls and got an easy qualifying bracket. Since qualifying for the pros they've won a grand of total of 1 set. It isnt unfair in any way bc they took advantage of seeding, but it isnt the best representation of NA and I'm sure this happened for other servers as well
green sierra
in eu UN1 had a lot of rerolls so they get better avg wr of team
brazen thunder
-VON- really shouldn't have made it
thorn shale
Of course not, but they didnt break any rules to qualify, which Is why i think the current mm in tourneys should be reworked
green sierra
@crisp shore look your groups and my teams groups (V-F), and tbh bot of our teams are simillar in skill but just because you get better seeding it makes it easier to you
thorn shale
I think the current seeding needs to look at total battles
green sierra
it def need one mor value to look and not only wr because its inaccurate
chilly terrace
@vital obsidian Mixed type of control will be there.
forest matrix
Good to know
chilly terrace
@green sierra Tournaments are not about personal effectiveness and average damage of each player. Tournaments are about teamplay and coordination between several players. In this way, winrate shows how player can play in a team better then other parameters.
@thorn shale You cannot low wr of your team without loosing in quality of team. Because average winrate calculates based on 7 best players in a team.
green sierra
its not about low wr, its about rerolls and their 70% wr that allows them to exploit seeding and get better position in brackets
winter swallow
@chilly terrace - As a note, in my experience ,average damage is much better for seeing tournament potential than raw win rate. Higher damage always correlates with better game play at higher tiers. Win rate can be boosted by playing lower tier tanks which can offset poorer performance in higher tiers. Maybe it would be better to consider Tier X win rate if average damage is not a metric you wish to use? - - - or rather, win rate for the highest tier the tournament is being played at?
So for example, only look at Tier X win rate in the Tier X Ascent tournament?
thorn shale
Tier X winrate would definitely be a more reliable way to seed teams, and shouldn’t be too hard for WG to implement
pale finch
I agree with @winter swallow and @thorn shale
vital obsidian
Good idea 👍
chilly hemlock
So many people stat pad their accounts below tier 8. Seems like a logical way to restructure tournaments
vital obsidian
Although we know there are some rigging done in x but no system is perfect
chilly hemlock
chilly terrace
I'm not talking that this is the best system ever. May be it will be changed someday. But you shouldn't talk that current system is bad. It's not ideal, sure, but it's not awful as you wrote.
chilly hemlock
Here’s a perfect example of stat padding and why overall win rate is a bad idea
Career win rate is way over 75%
Tier x win rate is 30% lower...
vital obsidian
Mby use ix and x wr if both tier are allowed in the tour
chilly hemlock
Seeding should be based off the average win rate of the top 7 players on a team in the tier of the tournament
winter swallow
@chilly terrace Please don't get me wrong - I think the current system is GOOD. Certainly, the win rate match making is better than purely random match making , and the strongest-vs-weakest principle is also really good too for early stages in tournaments 😃
chilly terrace
It's possible that it will be changed, but do not count on changes in seeding in short term.
winter swallow
Fully understand that potential changes like this take time to discuss (internally at WG) and then more time to implement. But I think the opportunity for players/streamers and WG to discuss informally here is great 👍 Thank you
vital obsidian
overall we have gone a good bit ahead on tournaments, with thrilling games and pro commentating. I hope the trend will continue through this season finals 👍 and looking forward to a high class Twister season 😀
slender hull
Hello everybody, new people greating!
winter swallow
Greetings new people!
glass thunder
@chilly terrace system is good but its can be better
cloud oriole
hi
toxic lintel
Yes that’s is a great idea to have only the tier winrate of the tournament considered for team winrate. It makes perfect sense and can avoid having sealclubbers getting easy seeds. I am 100% in on that
silver vapor
Oof my seedings then - my very old crappy stats finished me
I wouldn't call it inaccurate - but some of us have dark histories in our career stats - and it really does show
green sierra
wg can do it last 30 days wr
silver vapor
the more you guys trying to make it accurate - the more you guys will realize the fact that: inorder to make it accurate - would be actually better off considering tournament record rather than random battle records
and oh yeah - Tournament tier is 9-10 so you will also need to consider tier 9 as well (if that makes any sense)
thorn shale
@toxic lintel would actually incentivize comp players to perform consistently at tier 10 in order to help team seeding
Very high IQ
Although it seems WG in no rush to change seeding format
toxic lintel
It’s a great idea. I fully approve
And don’t consider tier 9 becuase no one ever plays tier 9 in a tier 10, unless it’s for memes
That and the tier 10 rental tanks for tournaments are the 2 changes I think wg should really consider for the future
green sierra
and getting crew on 100% with credits or free xp and not only gold
so free to play players can get 100% crew without grinding
pale finch
i have higher wr on t10 than overall wr xd
winter swallow
My overall is 67ish but my X is 65. I stat pad in Tier vi... well I don’t. That’s the effect though. I just love the easy8 and starchaser.
vital obsidian
I dont brag with stats cause they nothinh to brag about and this is about tournaments 😉
Crew xp certificates could be converted to something useful
winged saffron
There’s an 11% difference between my career and 30 day lol
atomic tartan
My career is 69.5. My 30 day is like all tier 10 solo so its only 2-3% higher. It aint going anywhere soon :/
thorn shale
Poszukóje chętnych do klanu Polka WALCZONCAPL zchęciom przyjmę każdego chętnego
chilly hemlock
@thorn shale English only
green sierra
Am I only one that wotb on steam is crashing after battles
happen 4 times tonight during the tournament
glass thunder
3 rounds in qt in same map
thorn shale
🗯
half rain
Hi in French
zenith quest
Hello
zenith quest
I’m Waiting On A Tier 5-6 Tournament.
zenith quest
My Captain Seems To Be Offline
winter swallow
Not ideal lol
fiery falcon
I am GKdragon
In Asia server
I want find someone to play tour steady
thorn shale
@fiery falcon use the #tourneys-team-search channel
low badger
I want Wargaming to play a tournament, and go through the effort of prepping for one. And see if the current prizes (not professionals) just a average quick tournament or ascent (if you’re really into it) and see if it’s a endeavor worth repeating. Because I can’t seem to find any motivation to win 600k-1m credits in such a time consuming and difficult manner.
Referring to rental tanks, honestly, I believe that people should work for their rewards, and I don’t believe there should be a fast lane access for tournaments at any level. No matter if it improves the tournament tanking population—> especially if they cannot practice in pubs or training rooms. After all, they are unable to practice in a fair and equal environment to everyone else. But if they have the ability to practice, why bother even grinding? Simply having a tank in and for tournaments is not enough anymore. Especially in a med or bc role. But in short, tournaments are the best of what blitz has to offer. People should at the very least, have experience and foundational understanding of what they’re driving to do well in it- at a fundamentally different environment and at a harder level compared to pubs and ratings. However, by doing so- we undercut the work and diligence of other players.
Tier x seeding? Sure, I guess..? I’m okay with the current system. As to stop seal clubbing, if they’re bad at tier x tanks, they won’t be good in tier x tournaments. And I’m not sure what problem it solves, every clan that made top 8 deserved to be there. (At least on na) and they were definitively, some of the best teams that we could offer from probably the best way to match and make the teams.
thorn shale
...
winter swallow
Ok until the last paragraph.
thorn shale
Another issue I've noticed is the minimum amount of players you can put it. My team especially has not been performing at the level we should be because its required to have 5 minimum. If we could play with only 1 I guarantee you we wouldnt lose, but since were playing 4 other noobs with the best player in NA his effectiveness drastically decreases and wdym rolling hated and von both had at least a double digit WR by the end
dapper current
Duuud I totally agree sometimes I just wanna play by myself in tournaments because I’m just a really war fighter tanker man. When I see that I can’t platoon with 7 players it’s when I do tournaments but it affects my platoon rate in tournaments so I just gotta soldier up and fight by myself or with 4, maybe two.
chilly hemlock
These pro season teams should have 10-11 player rosters instead of 9
People have school and life to worry about. These are month plus long tournaments. If someone has an emergency and can’t play for half of the season, there’s no reason to punish the team for that
winter swallow
Larger rosters for big events yes. Big yes.
pale finch
Agree with Raik, also usually you have a larger number than 9 people competing for the spots in the team
10 spots would be amazing, 11 would be even better. An increase in team spots would be very healthy though, imo
winter swallow
@thorn shale - on all servers, there is an arguement that better teams got put out early due to MM. I'm not saying VON and HATED are bad, but I am saying maybe there are better teams that didnt make the cut. Going 1-13 is pretty telling. And that 1 being against another 1-13 team.... I mean.... there's an evident gap.
pale finch
For example F-B-I and Evil Uniqums deserves Spots in the EU tournament imo
glass thunder
@pale finch did you see how fbi lost to -1-?
pale finch
Yeah I did... that was so stupid but he has himself to blame for it
silver vapor
there are always teams that deserved to enter top 8 but didn't make the cut - then there are teams that doesn't deserve to get top 8 that got in (I am not saying which particular teams)
glass thunder
maybe should be 8 for NA 6 for asia 12 for eu and 16 teams for RU (in last stage)
pale finch
No lmaoo
low badger
To be fair with Hated, they did beat the #2 pramo team to qualify, (they’re 65%?) which demonstrated the potential for upsets, and if you work hard and achieve win conditions, it the tournament system can work for you. And likewise, getting a bracket in your favor and failing to execute (ie. Win your group) as a pro team in quals is a non issue.
With Von- their tier x stats are comparable with a mid table NA team anyways. So my point was to say, not much would have changed anyways.
Deserved to qualify does not mean they’re the best 8 on the server, because the best 8 are the ones who completed the condition to play at professionals imo.
chilly hemlock
It’s the elite 8 for a reason
Hated beat a Pramo Latino team that never trained together
Congrats on the win but it’s not a real pramo team
low badger
I don’t want to go to far into that at all, but I think both teams deserved their outcomes and that’s where I want to stop
chilly hemlock
And void 2?
Meets pramo in the first stage
Main reign in the second stage
Tempest
They deserved a spot
Purpl and str8 hit each other both stages
Purpl won stage 1 and the first match up in stage 2. They lost the second double elim and were gone
Purpl and tempest would have been more competitive teams
Both teams that got in are stat padded for wr
Hence the earlier discussion about making the seeding based on the wr of the tournament
low badger
The premise I want to focus on is the fact that teams like Hated and VON met the objectives that qualifiers required. So did pramo, void and reign. As a result, they deserved to be there. Regardless of the fact they had a 1-13 winrate in the actual games.
I admit, the possible best 8 teams do not get to represent the tournament- and while that is a shame, I don’t think there is any possible method from Wargaming, including tier x statistics as a factor in matchmaking to solve that. It’s been the case every year and every time, the top 8 teams before prof or quals aren’t necessarily guaranteed a spot, which is healthy. If teams like VON slide in there with god tier group 2 meta, I’m more than okay with that.
chilly hemlock
The thing is that the perfect 8 will never truly exist
low badger
And did Hated stat pad?
chilly hemlock
Compare the clans at tier x win rate
low badger
Kk
chilly hemlock
Many players get their wr from playing a far higher percentage in tiers 7-8 with op premium tanks
It’s not done intentionally
low badger
Oh
thorn shale
Very true, tempest is by far a better team than hated and von but got cucked by mm
Theres always going to be a weak team but going 1-13??
green sierra
Biggest problem is wotb on steam crashed every tour battle yesterday, it was quick tour so I didnt care if we lose
And it started few days ago, boom after every battle it crashes
winter swallow
Also we are forgetting the qualifiers were Bo3 which was not an ideal format.
narrow meteor
@thorn shale don’t forget Def
chilly terrace
Hello there!
Based on players reports which we have received recently, we have audited teams, which are participants of Professionals Tournament, for fair play. Unfortunately, during our investigation, we found out that one team had demonstrated unsportsmanlike conduct.
We count that the fair play is vital in tournaments. Therefore we have to announce that team [EZ-] ALL STAR will be deprived of prize fund due unsportsmanlike conduct. The PRO avatars will be withdrawn from their accounts as well. Also the following players from this team will be banned for participation in major tournaments until the 31st of December 2019:
• VALKR1E
• EUSEBIO_SLB
• VIP
• DEKAV1L
• Ahajdu_
• Grgori95
Prizes for the 4th place in the final stage and prizes for the 4th place in the group stage will be provided to the team which ranks 5th in the group stage.
Prizes for the 5th place in the group stage will be provided to the team which ranks 6th, prizes for the 6th place to 7th etc.
silver vapor
hmmm
fathom tiger
oof
thorn shale
Took ya whole nek
arctic axle
why did they get striped off their reward?
fringe galleon
Good job WG, thanks.
pale finch
Finally some justice was created, I’ve been working hard for this
Very good job to the WG tournament staff and the rest of the EU community will surely be thankful
winter swallow
Kudos to WG for listening to the community and undertaking a serious investigation. This was probably quite a lot of work from their end and I am very impressed with their professionalism.
fringe galleon
Thanks to Zird also, very good job with this case 👍
dreamy adder
What happened ?
green sierra
lol rekt, they shared acc
tbh I would give longer ban because isnt twister only major tour this year?
winter swallow
Getting a ban through Twister season is a big penalty for a serious Blitz esports player.
azure void
Sets an example. Well done WG
winter swallow
I think these penalties are effective and balanced. They send a very clear message and it is encouraging to see WG flexing its capabilities and enforcing the EULA. Emphasis on the EULA. Read it. Know it. Abide by it.
azure void
I think a ban until December isn't enough tho
I suppose that makes them miss out on twister cup
vital obsidian
Not doing anything would have been letting the wolfpack out
green sierra
next time use VPN kids
vital obsidian
Idk ban lenght is fair in my opinion, cause in sports there is similar bans for doping etc
vital obsidian
Yea mby
azure void
But it's ok as said it means they miss out on twister which is the biggest event
pale finch
also it sets an example
azure void
Yes
vital obsidian
Indeed
green sierra
maybe put it in NEWS in game so everyone can see it xD
dreamy adder
@azure void I don't think you can prove it with screenshots
azure void
Hehe
winter swallow
An 8 month ban through the next major event (with no prior precedent for such actions by WG) sets an example but isn't harsh. The offending players can still enjoy other aspects of the game and return to competitive play in 2020.
azure void
@green sierra cheat avatar also
green sierra
they can play twister on othere acc because it prob ban wont stop them
azure void
That they have to use and can't change
silver vapor
idk what happened in EU but it seems it's something that is pretty bad and they got stripped avatars as well ¯_(ツ)_/¯
neon thistle
Account sharing
green sierra
they shared acc @silver vapor
azure void
For tournament
pale finch
Detective Zird at your service
green sierra
ban
silver vapor
what are they earning by sharing accounts tho
azure void
screenshot
neon thistle
lol
dim pivot
Lmao
dim pivot
Seems legit
pale finch
I’d like to hear that
neon thistle
That’s epic
neon thistle
@green plover
dim pivot
Dang, must be fun to tag wrong peep and get away without a mute or a ban
dim pivot
dont mute me ploz
faint scaffoldBOT
Meadsy69#3126 has been warned.
neon thistle
Ban
azure void
Don't wanna try that one
silver vapor
oof
faint scaffoldBOT
3lmeri#1451 has been warned.
thorn shale
keep this channel for tournament discussion only
faint scaffoldBOT
Stormblade#4404 has been warned.
green sierra
oof who tagged this party killer, @neon thistle did you?
neon thistle
It was the other guy
thorn shale
@green sierra this isn't general chatter,
You have seen other people get warned for being off topic and you still decide to chat off topic'
chilly hemlock
@pale finch justice
pale finch
Damn right
green sierra
poor that t22 med guy
faint scaffoldBOT
Juka J.#8812 was muted
green plover
@azure void yea?
azure void
@green plover rumours has it you play on all 7 accs
At same time. Whilst commanding yourself
spice geode
Moe exposed
green plover
Unfortunately that’s true
azure void
Lol
thorn shale
reported
azure void
Already done
neon thistle
You see. We have unreliable players like Tj who can’t show up
thorn shale
@azure void our secret to success has been exposed
fathom tiger
tj too busy
azure void
Lol
slender goblet
Actually moe only plays on six he can’t do donuts like tj
green plover
^
neon thistle
That last account is just a prank
thorn shale
or donuts like you @slender goblet
azure void
Its ok if you lose.. can always blame RNG
thorn shale
:dab
azure void
hides
slender goblet
What donuts; you did two I did 8k games
spice geode
EU community will be thankful 😂
neon thistle
Enforce your rules sir moderator @thorn shale
fathom tiger
i bet more than just eu community
green plover
Alright let’s go back to talking about #tourneys-discussion in tournament channel and no more side chatter
spice geode
No one is thankful really, they are just getting hated for
neon thistle
Moe for Tjs moderator role
azure void
^
silver vapor
hope to spark some discussion with this
I am guessing that everyone is talking about Asian teams spamming IS-4 excessively
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553889019096727552/569562590716362753/2z493c.jpg
pale finch
Or just Asian teams generally having next to no mobility lol
silver vapor
I mean - it worked earlier for us ¯_(ツ)_/¯
fathom tiger
im glad is4 spam is moving away in eu
dim pivot
Plox, make it happen in asia
silver vapor
I threw IS-4 based spam into the strats during Twister cup - so I'd thought it would still work
winter swallow
Asia moving to NA moving to EU moving to RU metas from what I can see.
Ironically, when you are deep in the RU meta, the pure EU meta is the perfect counter for it. The pure RU meta though trumps hybrid EU/RU metas.
fathom tiger
¯_(ツ)_/¯
winter swallow
The trick is being flexible and knowing your opponents in detail, before the games start.
solar coral
@fathom tiger now its E50M spam
winter swallow
But as soon as E50M spam gets too prevalent, the counters will come out. That is how a meta should work. There is a paradigm. A counter evolves and then becomes the new paradigm.... then a counter evolves.... ad infinitum
The problem emerges when no counter can be found. Then a rebalance is required to fix the situation. Case in point - Russian mediums late 2016.
lusty flint
Does anyone know what exactly happened with the account sharing
keen oar
R u acc sharing 😉
green plover
they shared accounts throughout the clan/friends during the top 8 into top 4 and got banned simple.
pliant pier
Definately right decision and penalty from WG tournament team.
Lets keep Blitz CW honest and fair 👍👍👍👍
green sierra
press F for -1- they where 1 point behind EZ if they didnt share acc -1- could have been in top 4
thorn shale
But they got the rewards of top 4 now I guess.
spice briar
If it was allowed to share accounts there wouldnt be only 9 spots free
chilly hemlock
Just make these big tournaments with 11 slots and cal it a day
I don’t care if my prizing is less
I don’t play for prizing
crisp shore
Agree
pale finch
Same here Raik, I would definitely support that
chilly hemlock
Some of the account sharing is due to scheduling. Others are to legitimately rigging games by putting better players on a lesser player’s account
sudden shadow
i think option number 2 happened,puting better players to replace bad players,and some of replacements as well for schedule,i heard they took more then 4 accos that noone played
sharp token
damn, that's bad
thorn shale
But it´s not rare that clans put clan-accounts in such tournament teams instead of a player account.
Ofc EZ- did it too hard. But shared accounts are not that rare.
sharp token
i really get account sharing when people are unavailable but when it's people changing even though everyone is there that's just sad, I mean atleast let the guys that are in the team play, they earned it (if I am understanding the situation right)
analog osprey
Hey are u speaking about my report?
forest matrix
I guess they are
analog osprey
I just say I am a big gay if we are the only ones who shared his account. So I just hope if they ban me they also ban all players who shared/share his account
marsh cliff
@chilly terrace Sir can you look private message please?
green sierra
hmm can a clan have tournament accounts? not using acc from someone else but using acc that no one uses as main acc
damn IMMOR 3 teams for tomorrows tour
crisp shore
I wish I have this kind of squad depth lmao
sharp token
only know a few people in "forthelols" but haven't seen any amazing leaders in any teams (unless some new guys appeared while i wasn't playing)
green sierra
its hard to find some leader, most of players dont know how to get 7 players in a team
marsh cliff
XD
sharp token
many amazing people left after twister
green sierra
EROS and R2K are trying but RA1D is still winning
fathom tiger
Bring TomasBack!
sharp token
as i remember ascent tourny is another chance to get into the world finals
green sierra
dictator tomas, and no
fathom tiger
Yea
Offline finals havent been announced tho
¯_(ツ)_/¯ maybe there are none this time
green sierra
isnt pro tour for twister cup, 1st place goes in minsk?
sharp token
eros is probably still fighting in between itself as it used to when I was there, r2k are r2k and ra1d are very serious about things
fathom tiger
🤔
sharp token
pro tourny atleast last year was for mobile legends or whatever, and last year pramo won ❤
sharp token
that's the problem in eros that's why the f*ck up 🙂
winged anchor
Is CWs usually mixed control s?
fathom tiger
Grande finale gonna be between ra1d and r2k i believe and the games between them have been close calls every single time
sharp token
for bigger tournies it's only touch @winged anchor
green sierra
yea all went in tie breaker
winged anchor
😐well that puts me out
sharp token
ra1d is somewhat a traditional team they are used to traditional tactics and are really strong in them but they can get fked when faced with experimental ones (but those don't always go as planned)
fathom tiger
Ima pc noob but i was still playing in there
¯_(ツ)_/¯ nothing can stop you
green sierra
IS4
winged anchor
I’m hopeless when I try on a phone
sharp token
hue PNCR tactics send in is7s and is4s
green sierra
we have SOULS in EU that do heavy spam also
winged anchor
Lol. PNCR still does 140 rushes
fathom tiger
140 rushes are coming back in eu
sharp token
i mean many things are viable if you play well and are coordinated
fathom tiger
140(/t22med for those who has them)
winged anchor
PNCR lost to RGN last week. They only did med rushes
fathom tiger
Curious to see what happens in the day of professional's tournament
winged anchor
T22s. Still say it’s unfair
sharp token
T22?
winged anchor
At least not make it obvious. It seems to me that this would be hard to control
The fact that t-22s are not evenly available.
sharp token
It is hard to control and I am surprised on how it got out lmao (is T22 a new test tank?
winged anchor
The Russian medium tank from Christmas??? Where have you been
sharp token
I haven't played for 6 months so it's a premium tank I see
sharp token
Eh the same situation when m60 was given out, it was the new meta for a bit because other meds got nerfed
winged anchor
M60 had very high heat pene. It’s no longer used much because they made it same as m48
sharp token
I was always against high tier prems
dreamy adder
@green sierra Where do you see these stats please ?
dreamy adder
I thought so but it isn't assistant (unless ios) and not same WR
peak terrace
I think people say T-22 medium is unfair because they simply don't have it. You almost never see them in random battles, so no one can whine about it being so hard to play against because it's a rare sight. You see them in Professionals Tournament, and a lot of the teams with the most T-22s have fallen short of victory despite having an "unfair advantage". I would understand all the whining about "unfair" if it was spammed everywhere and actually was invincible. Has everyone forgot that the IS-4 still exists and is completely free in the tech tree? 😂
burnt ingot
I mean common it's Blatantly better in a lot of situations compared to other meds at tier 10 😂 @peak terrace
peak terrace
Is it though? I mean sure, armor is great when you're hiding your weak spots, but other than that, what's better? 🤔
burnt ingot
Idk I don't have it but that armor is pretty good to say the least and in certain situations and on certain maps it's really really good to say the least and would certainly prefer it over the other ones at tier 10 @peak terrace
peak terrace
As we are in the #tourneys-discussion section, I was expecting some better argument for the T-22 being overpowered and unfair. A lot of competitive play, especially for mediums, happens to be brawls towards the end game of the match. T-22 is massive. It's an easy target in brawls and isn't hard to pen because the armor isn't invincible. Frontally, it isn't that impressive. Angling the front makes the armor weaker too. Side armor isn't much different, it becomes flat and the side profile of the T-22 is like I mentioned, massive.
I completely understand the whole "certain situations" or "positions" on maps, but I have yet to see a team dig themselves into such positions and sit there flinging HEAT at each other from range. Most games like I mentioned, end up in brawls and I don't see how T-22s massive size is an advantage.
flat goblet
If you let the T-22 reverse sidescrape against you, then you’re in trouble. But reverse sidescraping is such a weak tactic imo.
sudden shadow
i think t22 problem is v shaped front
winged anchor
It doesn’t even matter if the t-22 under performed. That is not the point. The point is hosting a professional tournament and not giving the teams the same deck of cards
analog osprey
Side of t22 bounce more than is7s side
sudden shadow
has sense,i think with too op colector tanks wich everyone cant buy fair play of tours is in danger,who knows how many more of those like tanks are yet to come
peak terrace
@winged anchor Why is this complaint happening just now? Same deck of cards? So if I don't have the JagPz E100 and the enemy team does, I should start complaining because I don't have the "same deck of cards"? Interesting. (:
flat goblet
Point is anyone can grind/pay for jag e100 today if they really want it
winged anchor
Are you really so naive dude?/ Anyone can grind a tech tree tank
flat goblet
The question should be: why are people only bringing it up now since limited time premiums have been a thing since the beginning of tier 8 tourneys.
peak terrace
Okay, fair point. Where was everyone whining about "same deck of cards" when 121B and Mk.6 were released? 🤔
flat goblet
Read panda’s second note. M60 was brought up for a limited time only because it was actually pretty broken. After that it was largely forgotten.
winged anchor
The tanks that actually have been for sale players actually had a fair chance to buy them. All tanks that are used at tier 10 have been,or are equally available except for t-22 and the American tier 10 that where in christmas event
peak terrace
Wait, what? Are you okay?
Anyone with enough money had an equal chance of getting the T-22 medium. T-22 was more guaranteed than any container tank such as 121B or the Mk.6 which WG released. 😂
winged anchor
So if you consider spending 400$ a fair chance. Then you are endorsing P2W into tournaments
peak terrace
"The tanks that actually have been for sale players actually had a fair chance to buy them."
T-22 actually has been for sale, players actually had a fair chance to buy them. 100% chance actually, and not 5% like other previously sold Tier 10s.
flat goblet
Any prem tier 10 is inherently "unfair"
by definition of if I am a free to play, it should be in my grasp to acquire.
winged anchor
I wouldn't say that if it was for sale for a reasonable amount and time
But it promotes P2W which I will rail against all day long
Also. wait for the day when every serious team will HAVE TO GO BUY A TANK TO BE ON THE TEAM
flat goblet
So then ban all or ban none. Who dictates "reasonable amount"? A person making 6 figs can see T-22 acquisition price as reasonable. A high school student will see $50 as unreasonable.
peak terrace
Your issue isn't about Tier X tanks being sold. Your issue is them being sold for a price above what you consider fair.
flat goblet
Seems like it. Which I don't understand.
sudden shadow
bcs m60 and chief and 121 are not good enough
winged anchor
beyond a normal persons reach and availability
sudden shadow
at least nobody is useing them
winged anchor
And compete in professional tournaments
peak terrace
Yeah and? People with T-22s don't all see success. Your point is?
sudden shadow
point is that m60=patton(identical almost),chieftain(not much usable coz e5 2x better),121B(no need to comment) and t22 is superior to most med tanks on 1on1
flat goblet
People "against" prem/collectors tanks can't band together under one point, it's so mixed that it's hard to understand the real reason for why they are unfair. Even though the answer is simple.
peak terrace
^^^ 😂
sudden shadow
read above there is fair points
flat goblet
No, that's entirely subjective.
sudden shadow
counterquestion,why nobody uses those in tours but they use t22?
flat goblet
T-22 has the advent of having a strong turret. If you're using them in tours for the side armor then I laugh at you.
peak terrace
Where is TJ when you need him....
sudden shadow
i never said i used them for side armour?
flat goblet
I said exactly why people use them in tours.
sudden shadow
it has great dpm,it has op turret,best frontal,at least most trolish from all meds,low profile tank,very fast one also
winged anchor
Its irrelevant if it was a Cromwell with a tier 10 sticker. You understand my point very clearly. You chose to defend WGing here for whatever reason idk when its clear that you play in a very competitive clan. Why are you promoting P2W is what Id like to know. Are you gonna start a charity drive soon to fund your teams tanks? @peak terrace
flat goblet
DPM same as 140, frontal armor no better than 140, profile same as 140, slower than 140. Again, the difference is the turret armor
sudden shadow
i saw noobs beating real good players 1v1 in those things
no matter wich tank much much better player would pick
peak terrace
How is T-22 P2W though? I'm having a hard time finding the W because all I see is a bunch of L's from clans who spam T-22s.
atomic tartan
Cuz he lost to one
flat goblet
I'm not even defending the T-22. If I had one I wouldn't play it in tours unless the situation called for turret armor. The gun handles much much worse than a 140 and it's slower than a 140.
Which again, is exactly what I said originally. Turret is the use for it.
sudden shadow
we all know it eats 140 for breakfast
winged anchor
^
sudden shadow
find someone who has it and take 140 and try,u will see
peak terrace
Well then, it's a good thing competitive isn't 7 1v1s then, huh? 😂
flat goblet
If you say so. I'm pretty done with this t-22 iS bEst mEdIum thing.
sudden shadow
it just says that the tank is better xD
atomic tartan
Hated and TJ did 1 v 1s with 140 and T-22. Both players averaged 3300+ in their tanks. It was exactly equal
sudden shadow
if lower skills players can beat better ones
flat goblet
peak terrace
Part of me wishes all the people complaining got the T-22 so they could attempt to get the W in their "P2W" statement in Professionals.
fringe galleon
Lets wait for that is4 defender for 1000 pounds and lets continue this talk then
sudden shadow
its not total replacement but it brings something new,and you shouldnt say bad words in normal discuson,if u want go try 1v1 against t22
take whatever tank u wish and see how it goes pick some bad player also
flat goblet
It brings something new. Huh, now we are getting to the root issue with premium tanks.
sudden shadow
but its just opinions,all can have theirs 😃
flat goblet
It's not like I said what the root issue with premium tanks is a week ago or something. People getting red-eyed over the T-22 are only seeing 1/10th of the issue and are blind to everything else. I don't care about your opinion about the T-22 because one, it's based on anecdote and two, because it matters jack squat in the grand scheme of the argument.
atomic tartan
@sudden shadow a few minutes ago you tried proving your opinion by telling me an inferior player in T-22 will beat a superior player in 140 in a 1v1.
sudden shadow
well u can care or not,thats your right i just said what i think 😃
flat goblet
The grand scheme of the argument. Yes. This is what's important, prem tanks bring something new. This something new could be vital to a strategy that would otherwise be sub-par given the tech tree set of tanks. As such, there is something inherently "unfair" about that. The root issue with premiums is that, not "oH pRemiUms aRe sO oP reeeee", it's what I said above.
atomic tartan
@vague obsidian shhhhhh.
flat goblet
Tan tan if you could read you might understand some of the argument. Shame.
atomic tartan
@flat goblet i think you’re expecting too much
flat goblet
I'm not even defending T-22. I'm pointing out that T-22 itself isn't the issue, it's the nature of prem Xs as a whole.
sudden shadow
i understand,i gave various views and i think my arguments were fair
but it does not matter,its how it is,im happy with the game as it is 😃
knotty bough
hi
dry flint
This is getting old.
WG, give us an actual OP tier X collector. I would love to see everyones reactions.
tall python
i would love to see WG’s bank account if they gave us something like that. lol
flat goblet
Extra thicc
keen oar
Can we stop bringing up pointless arguments that was ended weeks ago 😂 I thought we already made up a solution regarding to tier 10 collectors
mellow aurora
Is4 defender pls
chilly hemlock
Let’s get back to the topic
terse oriole
×8
winter swallow
Tournament channel. If you are going to debate premium vehicles you must link it back to tournaments somehow pls lol
keen oar
T22 is not op enough in tournaments pls buff
winter swallow
I am going to start pronouncing it Levi after the jeans company.
keen oar
D: Larry plsssssss
winter swallow
@keen oar mwuahahahahahaha
keen oar
_Larry was taken I had no choice reeee@winter swallow
winter swallow
L4RRY
or you could have gone for LarReeee - which would be great fun to call as a caster.
toxic lintel
Pointless arguing. T22 regardless of whether you think it’s thicc or not make rental system to give everyone chance to use it end of discussion
And also get the tier winrates for major tournaments sorted so we avoid another VON
winter swallow
Korah has exceeded maximum permitted efficiency levels.
toxic lintel
Well we saw wg step out of its normal comfort zone and actually listen to players and banning ez. If we are direct with them they will listen 😃
Huge kudos to wg for that btw.
thorn shale
Not saying I disagree with your point but for WG from a financial point it's better for them I believe to keep the t22 as a pay to win tank that can't be rented . At least currently if the tank isn't rentable then that means that tourny players with the cash are at least forced to buy it if they deem it neseccsary (if they do sell it in the future ) . If they give it out as a rental tank they don't really profit from it financially . Yes it could improve eSports in blitz but I doubt eSports in blitz really provided alot of revenue to WG. Again I actually agree with the point but im just pointing out that making it a rental tank means players could lose any incentive to buy the tank outright if they only use it for tournaments . @winter swallow @toxic lintel
toxic lintel
Here’s the thing about what you’re saying. Playing high level comp takes a ton of dedication, mostly in terms of time. When wg starts introducing these fantastic tanks badger, t22, future is4 defender for hundreds of dollars this makes the most dedicated players in comp become forced to buy into these expensive premiums. Players in comp already dedicate time outside their lives for the game, it’s not fair to force them to dedicate their wallet to be on equal ground with other teams. So yes maybe this benefits wg short term but in the long run it’s gonna drive a lot of players who can’t afford those tanks away from comp
Obviously the problem with t22 is small as of right now, not a lot of people have it but overtime things will get worse so this is why we wanna find solutions now rather than later
And also rental doesn’t mean we get to keep it. At least keep it rental for major tourneys. Obviously majority of players will want to buy the tanks to play in pubs so financially this is a good move. What’s even better actually is that this will drive he tourney participation even higher, as a lot of players will want to try out these tanks in tourneys. Higher participation in tourneys is always a good thing for wg and it comes at a relatively low price of introducing limited rental tanks for short time
And of course once players enjoy playing these tanks, they’re gonna be enlightened to buy them and play them in pubs. So win win for wg
thorn shale
That last point you said is actually very good and I hadn't thought about it . It would be quite benificial for tourny participation and interest .However the thing is that since it only will apply to major tournaments I'm not sure how much interest it will generate because in most servers the clans that are top 8 will be their regardless and also some players will probably only try and use the tanks when they get it for free without having to spend .
toxic lintel
Maybe have it for all tournaments then. This will be very appealing to the average player
winter swallow
P2W creep is what I fear in terms of esports viability for Blitz. At the moment the number of tanks which are OP and available only for $$$ is relatively low, and the number of owners of these at the top level is almost inconsequential.
A tank rental system using both in-game currencies and $$$ prevents a scenario where a group of players with a lot of $$$ but lower skill levels, beat a team with less $$$ but higher skill levels.
Tournament winner MUST be based on skill, not depth of wallet.
toxic lintel
I mean 10 million credits rental would still probably mean the average player needs to buy a premium tank and have some form of premium time. Or have saved up a lot of credits. Probably means some form of income for wg
Maybe have the rental based on how big the tourney is, so for random quick tourneys rental could be 2-3 million. Spring season 4 million credits or something and major tourneys 10 million. Obviously major tourney you get the tank for a week so price is higher and the 2-3 million for quick tourney prevents excessive spamming of the tank
And yes I agree 100% tournament winners need to be based on skill not depth of wallet
cyan fjord
hi
versed field
more t22s kinda tanks to tier 10
my opinion hope i can, you know use my wallet to get em all
just kidding, that is lil bit sarcastic you can use t22 med on the pro tournies.
winter swallow
@leaden belfry tagging you to see your roles
pale finch
@winter swallow tagging you to see my roles
winter swallow
not even a veteran
pale finch
😦
sharp token
only the cool kids don't have veteran
vital obsidian
Who is veteran
winter swallow
me
silver vapor
not me
winter swallow
I think a role for professionals tournament participants could be nice. Or like a general esports role for players with over a certain number of tournament battles?
sharp token
give me recognition
thorn shale
I can't pay with paysafecard in world of tanks :c
silver vapor
@thorn shale Not in this channel
silver vapor
i don't even know what you are saying here @thorn shale so unrelated to tournament please go somewhere else
winter swallow
@thorn shale This is tournaments thread. You are looking for another channel, let me help find it for you.
Maybe use #570204768857882624 / #560057192640937994 / @thorn shale 😃 ?
thorn shale
Thx and sorry
winter swallow
No worries - good luck with the query.
dreamy adder
@flat goblet Where do you see these stats please ?
fathom tiger
that's either world of tanks blitz assistant or in the portal
silver vapor
Find the issue in this picture 🙃
dim pivot
Epic , encounter battle
silver vapor
@chilly terrace I haven't seen Encounter tournaments since 1st twister cup - and this is definitely something fresh 😂
dreamy adder
@fathom tiger on the portal ye ty
thorn shale
lol
winter swallow
@silver vapor is that from an actual tournament? Was it played as encounter?
silver vapor
Apparently yes
Thanks to clanmates
@winter swallow I guess they are secretly testing encounter mode again 😂
arctic axle
encounter in tourney ... strange
winter swallow
wow.
Now THAT, is interesting! Encounter as a game mode though for CW is very, well - hang on - there's a great tactical break down blog from Twister 2016. That explains the meta (which hasn't evolved since 2016, early 2017) better than I can.
dreamy adder
lol
hazy plank
O no
vital obsidian
We had encounter back in 2017 I think, in the eu community based map war (remember well cause we had Rockfield over and over)
winter swallow
Well the site is broken - but it was Ferd Squad - Twister Cup Analysis . There was a series of 9 really, really GOOD articles.
hazy plank
Encounter is boring , it's just gonna be camp off again
vital obsidian
Or 2016? Idk
winter swallow
silver vapor
How to break every single team now - turn supremacy into encounter
winter swallow
http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/35748-twister-cup-analysis-part-2-iron-zone/
http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/35992-twister-cup-analysis-part-4-heavy-platoon/
http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/72515-twister-cup-analysis-final-part/
etc.
But the blooming links are BROKEN. He had a proper good dissection of the encounter meta. Iron Fists, Iron Webs, etc. - it was glorious.
dim pivot
Asia after seeing encounter in tourney
"Bring back 2016 meta bois"
winter swallow
A mixed meta would leverage more balance between teams.
Imagine the Professionals Tournament but half encounter, half supremacy in the Round Robin phase. OMG.
silver vapor
Oof
sharp token
personally what i think on ecounter would happen is either just a stand off against hulldown tanks and campers or a one sided rush,
atleast from when I used to play cw what would happen is both teams cap bases and one has the advantage in cap points forcing the other team to rush, the rush usually would happen at around 800 cap points so by the time people are fighting the cap points are really close to 1000 and either a kill or a stopping of cap would result in victory. This was or still is the most common occurrence in CW
winter swallow
@sharp token yes, encounter was pretty stagnant on some maps. The iron-web 2016 strat was literally just set a trap and wait for enemy to fall into it.... but the teams and players are so advanced now compared to then, the growth of strategic depth in the last 3 years is insane.... I think that the simplistic iron web, iron fist approaches of 2016 would get countered hard.
The issue in Blitz is you need motivation to move out of cover. That motivation is ALWAYS a target. Either an enemy, cap points, map control etc. - and each of those in relation to one another.
Encounter doesn't have much motivation to move, to control the map - it is easy to reset the cap. It strongly favours teams that achieve solid defensive positions and decent lanes of vision in relation to team location.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9LHaDk_7g8&t=28121s - Russian restream.
sharp token
b-b-b-b-b-bushka
winter swallow
^ but that is the whole blooming thing. 9 hours. NINE. HOURS.
Then you have the Tokoyo Game Show 2017 which came next - and that was the first (?) offline with Supremacy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSa8-XzTQ2A
Note XR in that and now in top 4 Asia Pro Tour 2019 😄 I knew I recognised that tag from somewhere lol
silver vapor
Tho they missed twister last year because they got booted by some random team, just saying
winter swallow
Yeh I heard that team just got really lucky tho
silver vapor
Asia teams have a tendency to screw up quite a lot in times and being quite inconsistent
winter swallow
😉 . slow mode killin me RN.
silver vapor
speaking from personally and from experience
Yeah slow mode sucks 😑😒
glass thunder
i hope they do attack and deff mods same like wot pc
low badger
@thorn shale you can probably expand it to former competitors, say former offlines and twister onlines as well
thorn shale
XR also came 2nd in the 2017 Asia Twister Cup .
stark crow
T22 is much better than 140 by far
thorn shale
#tank-balance-discussion @stark crow
stark crow
Sorry @thorn shale
green sierra
just gonna say this, nice tour name deserves to be removed from tonights tour
sharp token
atomic tartan
Heh. @neon thistle wanna tell him about our bet lmao
neon thistle
No u tell him @atomic tartan
atomic tartan
I would but then I’d have to call him a
neon thistle
Oh
sharp token
👀
flat goblet
?
forest matrix
Nvm
chilly terrace
@silver vapor it was a bug. We've fixed it already. There will not encounter battles anymore)
silver vapor
😜 I was thinking that you guys might have been planning to reintroduce encounter into the tournaments
thorn shale
top cw tanks? ping when u answer thansk
vital obsidian
@pallid raven 😇
pallid raven
lol
vital obsidian
We were lucky enough
pallid raven
which one were you in? "forthelols"
vital obsidian
Our enemies played all really well so hats off 👍
winged anchor
@thorn shale IS-4,IS-7,WZ-113,OBJ 268, Foch,E3,new Chinese TD, M48 Patton,e50M, All Russian meds, STB-1, Bat Chat. I’m sure you could add a few more. I’m very happy to say I’m seeing a little more diversity compared to last year. I believe some tanks like FV215B can also fill a niche as well as Jageroo.
eternal breach
grille is also used to boost to certain spots. Ik the e50m is used in tourneys but I dont really like it. I dont feel like there is any spot in a map where the e50m would be best at although it is good at a lot of spots which makes it great in pub stomping
pallid raven
I wouldn't say the Chinese TDs are part of the meta yet
eternal breach
Also amx 50b for the meme 1200 potential
pallid raven
We use 4 t57 heavys on a map which will remain nameless
pale finch
We used 4 amx on Mayan in prof
bold kettle
Most tanks are competitive. 2 or 3 get used more than once in a set.
silver vapor
*cough* IS-4 *cough*
flat goblet
jag was used
pallid raven
183 on yamato harbor was the meta
pale finch
Jag is solid on a few maps for sure
Idk I like the way the meta is heading atm, moving further away from slow heavies such as is4
bold kettle
It's been "moving away" from slow heavies for 8 months.
pale finch
Depends on how you look at it, I would beg to differ because comparing the playstyle of teams in the challenge the stars tourney to how they play now a huge difference is noticeable in lineups etc
bold kettle
Nothing changed on NA lol. literally the same strats and tanks for as I said the last half a year
flat goblet
not true
at least for us
bold kettle
Oh that's right, the T-22 is now a thing
flat goblet
🤔
pale finch
I was speaking of EU, idk about the other regions
bold kettle
Everything has already been done. The stagnation is ridiculous. Same win condition or smaller goal, different tanks. You could probably blind fire half the HP away from a team on some maps at this point
flat goblet
you do you I guess, lol
creativity is noice
bold kettle
And you keep sending batchats around the entire map and baiting with IS-4s :)
flat goblet
I don't think you've paid a whole lot of attention then
pale finch
Horrible analysis but sure lol
bold kettle
I don't pay attention to the meme games
flat goblet
I don't think you've paid attention to any games besides a select few of yours if you really think that
Besides, if the stagnation were in fact ridiculous, meaning the enemy would be extremely predictable, then you should be able to develop some good counter. The counter would then force the enemy to change as well.
bold kettle
Every team is predictable in their positioning, but they are equally experienced. Countering is such a silly thing, since if it's even a little bit wrong it's an auto loss
flat goblet
Every team is predictable in their positioning, but they are equally experienced.
Ok. Sure, you could say every team is 'predictable' in the sense that you can 'predict' their goals for the battle and assume what they will do. But you could do that for pretty much any lineup.
chilly hemlock
Don’t say it
Don’t say it
Don’t say it
.
.
.
.
Most teams have line ups designed to flex in any direction
Crap
bold kettle
But you probably know where they are flexing to so
chilly hemlock
Sure. If you’re watching a streamer
flat goblet
Yes, you should be able to predict, that's half of the game.
You guys actually accusing someone of streamsniping?
pallid raven
Predictions aren't going to always be 100% right as they are still guesses based on "facts and logic"
flat goblet
Right. That's why they are predictions, and that's why I say comp isn't 'stagnant'.
In fact, it's never been better
chilly hemlock
If comp rotations were predictable, there’d be no point of pushing
bold kettle
They are predictable, that's why you push in the first place
pale finch
I don’t see what you’re trying to prove
chilly hemlock
Apparently comp is easy
flat goblet
They are predictable, the issue is setting up correctly. Knowing what the enemy is going to attempt to do isn't difficult, it's the how
Everything about comp is the how. The game's essence is simple.
fringe galleon
Everything is easy on paper but it gets hard when u start fighting
pale finch
Hence why it’s a rotation based game and doesn’t really allow static gameplay
flat goblet
For some time, yes, NA meta was based around relatively static positions. But it has moved way past that for many maps.
pale finch
Yeah same as EU, when we were champs last spring season we usually relied on very static and slow paced gameplay
silver vapor
I am not catching up this conversation - Asia is obviously very behind
flat goblet
I wouldn't know what asia is up to since there haven't been streams.
pale finch
I’ve watched most of amaunet’s streams, it’s... spicy
silver vapor
@flat goblet probably still stuff that you guys were doing during last year twister - or even 2017 stuff from XR
flat goblet
Amaunet streamed/streams asia?
pale finch
Yes she does
flat goblet
going to have to look into that then, could be some good stuff
silver vapor
all I can see from chat is zird yelling and screaming at the lineups being too heavy
pale finch
Don’t get your hopes up :^)
flat goblet
👀
silver vapor
Meanwhile some of my members has been nagging me to use their strats (which are obviously copied from EU and RU)
I am not a big fan of copying strats and meta without knowing what they mean - and with respects to my skill level the things I can understand is fairly limited - hence the horrible display of our super stiff lineups 😬
thorn shale
@bold kettle explain how are comp rotations predictable?
chilly hemlock
When*
atomic tartan
lmfao i rewatched RGN vs Void on Faust. both teams literally moved tanks back and forth between opposite sides of the map, with very valid reasons for doing so each and every move. how's that for static gameplay
flat goblet
And that's only the most recent set of games on one map
ionic shoal
slow meta in asia theres not much creativity considering is 4 spam is plenty
vital obsidian
Compare blitz cw to chess. There are not that many starting positions or type of soldiers. But after 2-3 moves the options grow or gets more limited depending on enemy moves. In the end the player wins who can think a bit ahead
signal lagoon
The NA meta has definitely gotten a lot less static, especially at the higher levels. The top 4 teams in the professionals tournament are all easily very capable of easily dislodging the old static, campy meta that used to be dominant about a year ago
keen oar
Smh the meta where I dominated
low badger
@keen oar rip Reaction metas
winter swallow
Best thing about current meta is that every class has viable and specific roles and also most tanks are used even if rarely. Would anyone contest that the FV4202 is the least used tank in Tier X comp scene though?
By least used I mean I have not seen one taken in serious match this season...
sharp token
everyone's just too noob 🙂
winter swallow
The 4202 doesn't have any specific advantages to leverage in comp, I believe.
versed field
i hope they change it to centaurion AX
winter swallow
They could make FV4202 a collector tank and bring in the AX as the tech tree.
thorn shale
Centurion AX won’t be any better IMO
Slow, unreliable turret, paper hull
At least that how it is on WoT PC
winter swallow
The turret's main construction material of damp cardboard is basically what holds this thing back.
thorn shale
And the speed
versed field
i like it in wot pc, and turret is biggest thing.
winter swallow
top speed of 50 isn't bad. It's also quite nimble.
versed field
fv to ix and cent ax to x.
winter swallow
But if they buff the turret and HESH stays as is, then you wouldn't see the M60, M48 or STB-1 ever again.
sharp token
never forget HESH
versed field
hesh is nice. i like fv now
winter swallow
HESH works in pub matches because noobs. In comp combined with the turret, it isn't enough to operate effectively. You will trade poorly most of the time.
You think a RA1D or R-2-K med will show any part of it you can pen with HESH? Nope.
sharp token
you can snipe with 202 🙂 and when rushing you are able to kill TD's and other stuff faster
winter swallow
True. But then you snipe with the leo and rotate faster.
sharp token
don't ruin my dreams 😢
winter swallow
Or you snipe with grille and hit harder. i think the poor 4202 is just always beaten by other tanks for any role atm. Which is a shame. It is one of my favourite Tier X tanks.
sharp token
@thorn shale you make 202 the new meta
winter swallow
And the proof is in the pudding. The 4202 just isn't taken by pro clans in evenly matched contests.
thorn shale
@sharp token inb4 we have an omega bhink strat we saving for Grand Finals with 3 4202s
👀
versed field
is4 buff needed
thorn shale
But alas I’m afraid our rotations might be predictable
winter swallow
^ that is not ruled out. Let the meta go so far away from it that it becomes viable.
versed field
is7 buff
winter swallow
Also. Speaking of meta rotations. There's a great YouTube channel on esports. They did a lovely video on tilt. I find link.
I'll post link on my server. It's not PG rated.
sharp token
I remember when in LGN we did a full FV start, as in 183s 215b's and 202s
winter swallow
^ I will look favourably upon pro teams that use nation based teams in early phases of qualifiers wit hstrongest weakest MMs
flat goblet
I remember a forum post on NA with someone making a clan that would run only american tanks
vital obsidian
Krk had french tank 3x3 tour in autumn
winter swallow
Japanese vehicle focused esports team most viable.
sharp token
yeah that was pretty cool also
i remember the days when community organized tournaments were lit like the 7x68 system
winter swallow
@thorn shale If you want Omega thonk tactics - this video - draw parallels - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzzwPcxyJik - For Blitz, it makes pretty good sense this part :
sharp token
he does look like a strategist
winter swallow
He worked the US Army in their Mil Sims....
"Strategy is limited by the resources at hand" - This should be stapled to the brains of 95% of comp team callers and strat makers. Both in terms of their rosters player skill levels and tank compositions available.
Though I think now with more years under the belt, there are less teams with players who only have a select number of tanks? Or maybe I am wrong. I mentioned it before but I will mention it again - it can be very frustrating juggling players and tanks for strats on certain maps lol - and having rerolls or players with limited tank unlocks can severely handicap a team in terms of flexibility and options.
On the other hand, it was always nice being the guy with every tank unlocked lol because even if you weren't the best player technically - a caller would often draw on you in certain lineups.
silver vapor
I can totally relate to that quote - I've been in countless situations in the past where we had to beat enemy with other methods because simply the skill level and tank compositions was an issue for the team
needless to say - it's hard to achieve when you have such a disadvantage, but we did manage to pull it off a few times
fathom tiger
$
crisp shore
That would be mad!
silver vapor
#MakeMadGamesTournamentHappen2019
winter swallow
@chilly terrace - in all seriousness, I do propose a Mad Games esports show match between 2 teams invited by WG 😃 - just to demonstrate proof of concept and get a feeling for audience approval etc.
frosty nexus
Mad Games mode isn't available for tournaments. As a suggestion for the future we could think about this.
sharp token
I'd love to see more tournaments with interesting rules, I am a big fan of the 7x68 mode which forces you to play either 6 tier Xs and 1 tier 8 or 5 tier Xs and 2 tier 9s
Mad games sounds really fun I couldn't imagine what you could come up with for tactics with all of those abilities
mental yarrow
We had a 7x68 tournament on NA yonks ago, they aren't really all that great tbh as the only viable tier 8 was a T49 and the tier 9's aren't that great up against tier 10 but it still made for some interesting tactics to be used. Personally wouldn't wanna see that format come into a tournament though
pale finch
I actually agree with Kiwi, I believe that there are some interesting concepts that can be used in tournaments, I remember previously there was a tournament organized as Kiwi mentioned where you could only have “ 68 as value “ meaning that you are forced to use one tier 8 or 2 tier 9s, it allows some dynamic and fun gameplay, obviously it’s not something that should be considered for any competitive tournaments like the professional tournament, twisters etc but as something fun to do in between rather than just playing quick tournaments for 800k credits or whatever you get when you win :))
green sierra
Quick tours are a vaste of a time
sharp token
Huh, for us here in EU ru 251 and tier 9 amx's were the meta with 7x68 @mental yarrow
pale finch
Personally I don’t enjoy the quick tournaments and usually don’t play them, I prefer organizing a training with another team instead as it’s more giving if your goal is to improve your gameplay, tactics etc.
sharp token
6 mil per week tournament flashbacks
pale finch
Yeah it was great fun when the tournaments were more rewarding to play, the participation between competitive clans was also way higher but now because of the mediocre rewards most competitive clans resort to training rather than tournaments. If WG brought back the bronze/silver/gold tournament concept and made the rewards higher again the tournament participation would definitely increase and that would most likely mean that the interest in competitive gameplay would increase for streams etc since more players would be familiar with the concept of tournaments etc @chilly terrace
( Tagged you because I indirectly suggested to bring the concept of bronze/silver/gold tourneys back as they were before with similar rewards to increase interest in tournaments again. ).
sharp token
that was the golden age of tournaments 🤤
winter swallow
Premium tanks up for grabs as stream giveaways EU grand finals - nice.
chilly hemlock
2017 twister season with battlegrounds was 8.8 million per member if you won all three tournaments that week
winter swallow
I once almost had 100,000,000 credits... it was just silly after a while lol
pale finch
The_HONOUR had 500m before
low badger
I feel that when my tournaments winnings don’t cover the gap in crew and tank pools between myself and the other competitors- it’s a bit frustrating. I know a ton of blitz pros have 7 skill crews on every class, and almost close to twice as my tier x tank pool. (I have around 18 if you’re wondering)
Also making 1m credits in a normal weekend and tournament when I can just simply play my Jag 88, and toon for the same amount in the same time makes it really redundant at times. I want meaning in tournaments, such as the coverage and the prize pools in professionals, although the credit amount seems to be omega questionable. (Everything else is fine for me though)
I think it’s great that they properly rewarded the older players who weren’t the pramos of the world, but really I would like to see modern teams get rewarded a proportional amount to the costs and effort it takes for them to play
That moment when you’re broke playing the video game trying to advance your utility and usefulness in comp (clan wars)
fathom tiger
that pic from last year right+
winter swallow
18 is a good number if relevant tanks
silver vapor
I only have 22 Tier Xs but I think I got most of the meta tanks covered (not just Asia) just don't ask me for American Tanks, I have none
mental yarrow
Patton becoming meta again, start the grind
winter swallow
Only 22? That is 22/28 tech tree Tier X's. Then there's 6 collectors/premiums (CPs) currently in-game. So it is 22/34 total.
silver vapor
Except the M60, that is
fathom tiger
about a month more so i get the last trash ones i was missing
silver vapor
not Tech tree only - I have T-22, Chieftain mk.6 and M60 - so that makes it 19 Tech tree tier X
winter swallow
I have 27 tech tree X (missing new Chinese TD), M60 and Mk.6
silver vapor
the reason why you don't see me using the T-22 is - I suck 😞
fathom tiger
didnt we see mk6 in your carage in the last stream rolling?
winter swallow
Yes that's why I list it lol.
silver vapor
The Tier X I am missing: All American Tech Tree Tier X, Chinese MT and TD, Foch 155, Leopard 1
winter swallow
Arguably the T110E3 is the main one you miss.
fathom tiger
my bad im dumb and mixed up everything again, somehow thought you dont have those tenks
silver vapor
yeah that's why I said "most"
winged saffron
IS-4 only tank for me lol
winter swallow
Will be good to see Badger and 4005 enter the mix soon enough. I think we should have them before Twister season (no idea, just guessing)
silver vapor
I am no where near Professional TD player but I might give that role a try soon
winged saffron
If you hide the lower plate nothing going to pen the thing so it is basically a heavy tank from the front
silver vapor
If you have to say what I am specialized in - is spamming IS-4s and rolling my head on the touchscreen bouncing shots
mental yarrow
First you try MT and now TD? You're broken Maddocks
pale finch
im missing lots of tanks, 113-G, 113, E100, M48, 268, 263, BC, Foch, AMX50b
winged saffron
I play Maus and IS-4, I prefer the IS-4 because I get more bounces and can pen everything lol
winter swallow
@pale finch get on that grind.
pale finch
No way
fathom tiger
i'd like to be a batchat driver but on mobile i am less than a noob
silver vapor
@mental yarrow yes I am broken - but I am getting nagged by @dim pivot to play the T-22
mental yarrow
jajaja it's just cause he wants to abuse it cause it's "broken"
winged saffron
I’m currently grinding to the 183 for the magical 7 183 team lol
silver vapor
it took me more or less 6 months since I fully switched from PC to touch, now I am probably about 85-90% of my skills regained @fathom tiger
fathom tiger
im originally a mobile player but i like pc more
mental yarrow
Didn't you play touch before though?
winged saffron
Touch or pc, I will be bad
silver vapor
@mental yarrow that was way before I switched to PC for a full 2 year period
I lost some skills here and there, it's a bit hard to pick them back up tbh
winged saffron
I feel like moving is easier on mobile, but aiming/shooting is easier on PC
silver vapor
I still tunnel quite a bit but that's how the learning goes - let's hope I can get back to my peak someday
winged saffron
I personally haven’t played on PC but that’s what I would think
fathom tiger
i agree, shooting and aiming is a lot easier on pc (imo) but i disagree that moving would be easier on mobile
winged saffron
I mean, not like a huge difference but on mobile you have a joy stick and on PC you have 4 arrows that make like 8 different directions/turning angles
vital obsidian
Tournament stuff?
fathom tiger
yes
silver vapor
@vital obsidian yes, about why I suck at tournaments
vital obsidian
Okay 👍
dim pivot
@silver vapor play t22 plox
silver vapor
me getting caught tunneling
fathom tiger
i am used to wasd moving keys making it atleast for me a lot easier to move in blitz as well
silver vapor
@dim pivot show me how
dim pivot
Yolo and sidescrape works
winged saffron
When you see 2 IS-4 and you’re alone its all over lol
silver vapor
I got punished heavily for that tunneling ._.
solar coral
Nab :)) jk
idle basalt
Omg mobile moving i despise
Pc by far is just so so so much more comfortable on both areas than movle
Wasd i use for moving,R,F,C i use for consumables
fathom tiger
im boring and use 1,2,3 for ammos and 4,5,6 for consumables
winter swallow
I have a separate keypad for playing on PC controls.
cobalt plover
@solar coral @solar coral
winter swallow
Razer Tartarus RGB 2.0
pale finch
123456 is unpractical
mental yarrow
I use 123456
is ez
fathom tiger
ikr and another 200IQ solution is to put all the commands into F1-F9
Xd
mental yarrow
I have help on F and attack on T
Other commands I don't care about
regal agate
Anyone free for training tonight 20.00?
winged saffron
I use default controls on mobile lol, with the second fire button and auto aim button
flat goblet
Reloading command on Q, small repair on space bar, larger repair on middle mouse, adrenaline/engine boost on E
winter swallow
Confusion on 1
flat goblet
Those binds make sense if you’ve played other pc games I swear
pale finch
ehh i wouldnt use those binds on any game lmao, but ive mostly played fps games and lol @flat goblet
flat goblet
lol uses both Q and E, FPS uses space
pale finch
yeah i was just thinking about using those binds together
i rebind everytime i launch a new game though so i dont really remember the normal binds lol
lusty flint
I use f for repair, 4 for multipurpose, and mouse button for adrenaline/ engine boost
green sierra
Why not just 123?
flat goblet
123 are further away
keen oar
@winter swallow as for someone like me who have played this game since second week of release I can tell you tournaments do not make you bank xd I struggle to get enough credits to buy tanks I want all the time
winter swallow
I played since October 2014... they used to help me a lot lol
knotty bough
hi
hard hemlock
keen oar
@winter swallow as someone that literally have 16k battles after 5 years tournament battles takes up 1/10 of my total battle count and they definitely do not help you with your credit count 😂
flat goblet
Tournaments used to have seriously good payouts, both gold and credits
But that was a long time ago, back when tournaments first began
fathom tiger
OwO 10% of my games are tourney games too but i got total of 47k games lol
I'd like to get all of my creds from tourneys so i wouldnt need to grind them in randoms
pale finch
Omg 4700 battles in tournaments??
keen oar
Wow you have no life
@flat goblet reeee back then I’m just another wot pc player playing skirmishes more than blitz
fathom tiger
Yea and i've only played a bit over 2 years lol
pale finch
I’m on 1.7k tourney battles and I’ve played them since it started lol
keen oar
I’m almost 1.7 😃 and I rarely play quick tournaments
pale finch
Yeah same, I don’t like QTs
keen oar
I like how I was grinding T30 yesterday with a premium account and lost one million credits, that’s like my entire spring professionals crediting earning right there XD
pale finch
Yeah... it’s sad how costing it is
fathom tiger
My tourney games are just spamm of tier 6 and 8 mostly from a year ago😂
But yes More creds from tourneys pls
Even +1% pls that helps the grinding too
thorn shale
570 tournament games and iv played 4 years...
thorn shale
Im looking for a team in friday V-VI I will play with kv-1s.
heady mortar
I'm on about 1.5k Tournament games in 2 years
thorn shale
OH I play 0 Tournaments!
winter swallow
I've commentated more games than I've played now for comp I think....
chilly terrace
@pale finch As we said before we are not going to increase rewards in tournaments, because we don't want that tournaments will become a place when you can easy farm.
sudden fjord
Lol,what is the purpose of tournaments then?
silver vapor
@chilly terrace how about increasing rewards for currencies (tokens) for which that are not easily farmable for random battles?
pale finch
So indirectly you’re saying that you need a premium account and premium tanks to be able to not go completely bankrupt in the game while playing tier X or grinding high tier tanks? I mean, if you cannot make enough credits while constantly winning tournaments than what’s the point of playing them. I thought increasing interest would be the primary goal of a company rather than decreasing rewards and decreasing interest
silver vapor
I agree that Tournaments shouldn't be a farming ground for credits - but the current rewards are lacking.
sudden fjord
U can farm about 3 millions of credits in random battles with prem vehicle and prem account in 2 hours,then why should i play tourneys which ofc much more challenging than random battles and be given much more less than i could get in randoms?reward is the thing why ppl wanna compete in this game,better reward-more interest from players-more ppl play tourneys
fringe galleon
And how about mid tier players and teams who doesnt win tournaments? Its not exactly motivating to organize players, invest time, play and dont get anything back.
winter swallow
I agree that tournaments shouldn't detract or substitute public match game play. If better players can get better rewards toward the standard grind it kind of breaks the in-game economy a little bit. BUT then I do like the added rewards from Ranked matches - which is bit like an ELO system.
However, I do believe that in order to keep the most experienced and talented players in the game, tournaments need to be rewarding in ways that public matches aren't. Cash prizes are the obvious first step. Beyond that though, aesthetic and prestige elements are the logical go to. WG have already done this, avatars, camos, clan logos etc. - I think an increase in this and addition of other new similar features is great.
Tournament prizes as Tier X legendary or exclusive camouflage and equipment unlocks would be a nice touch.
Or for example, play 1000 tournament matches and earn an unlock for a premium of that tournament tier.
I think that WG need to appreciate that creating a tournament team, organising it, training together and committing to play at specific times (sometimes at a high frequency) is far more demanding than random public game play, be it ranked or not. And I think that needs to be reflected/rewarded somehow.
Ironically, for the best tournament players - tournament rewards are less than their in game performance would earn. However, for weaker players - tournament prizes would be more but they get systematically destroyed and knocked out early by the afore mentioned teams of top players.
spice briar
++there is just no point in playing QT atm , you get 600k credits and you have to give the half of it to ammo, repairs etc. why would i play tournaments while i can get 300k in 5-6 random battles
fringe galleon
Only point of QT atm is to have fun and do stupid stuff
spice briar
yeah
winter swallow
Quick Tournaments are IMO aimed at new teams/players.
In a way it's almost a good thing that the best teams don't compete, because it gives some breathing room to the less experienced units.
spice briar
The bronze/silver/gold tournament system was the best imo
winter swallow
^ was also a fan
spice briar
You were playing with teams at your level and you actually were attracted by the rewards
winter swallow
But the rewards eclipsed public matches too much.
spice briar
Even if you lower the rewards a bit compared to the last time it would be much better than QT's
vital obsidian
Quick tours are good for fun and its great to chill with friends. Dont remove! For tours should ammo repairs be free
silver vapor
the word I always used was "Appropriate" rewards - there's a reason why people are not satisfied with the current rewards.
as rolling said - making a 7 player team that can play together is not an easy thing. And if they manage to assemble a 7 player team and able to win games, they should be at least rewarded for their tries, not just giving them next to nothing and discourage them from joining anymore.
As for regular teams, they should get rewards for their dedication, as they are mainly the ones that fill the QT queues right now, not the top teams, not the bottom teams, but the middle regulars
as for the top ones, it's really obvious they should be rewarded more for their highly competitiveness
winter swallow
Yes, but I agree with WG that these rewards shouldn't devalue "normal" game play.
Ideally, all players will want to play both public and tournament matches. Creating a divide would probably be detrimental to the game (and our experiences) in the long term.
pale finch
It’s a silly mindset Brian, the clans that constantly compete at the top level should be considered elitists and be rewarded that way, bring the bronze/silver/gold tourney back and give some proper rewards in the gold stage, similar to the ones that were given before.
silver vapor
Oh rite, my rewards from professionals btw (77k credits)
spice briar
lol you got rewards?
winter swallow
Peter, I agree top teams should get rewarded for top performance - the whole game is focused on rewarding good play. However, those top players should still be incentivsed to play public matches too.
silver vapor
2 weeks of constant competing for 77k - I would just go QT instead, thanks.
winter swallow
77,000 isn't right.... is it? ...
thorn shale
Yes
fathom tiger
We got rewards too
pale finch
They still play public matches, regardless of rewards you get in tournaments, you need to actually play the game to stay in shape
silver vapor
@winter swallow that's what I got ¯_(ツ)_/¯
spice briar
for beeing 1st place for over 14 battles i got 1.2m
winter swallow
Well that is stupid. Hold on. I will find a public match screenshot of earnings.
fringe galleon
That reward was complete joke, worth investing time🙃
fathom tiger
The amount of gold was 👌 compared to other tourneys
silver vapor
we lost the crucial game which dropped us from potential 4th to all the way 7th - which equals 700000 credits for the entire team (I mean - even QT earns more than this)
spice briar
i didnt even get my gold yet😂
winter swallow
1 game in randoms.
pale finch
Here are my rewards for being first place in the round robin system and playing every single game :))
thorn shale
@spice briar you won’t get gold until elimination round is over, since you made knockout stage
spice briar
-_- niice
thorn shale
People who didn’t make knockout stage get awarded gold based on their group stage position
winter swallow
257k from one pub match.... versus 77k for 7 days of highest level tournament play. That is not good math.
pale finch
Is 1.1 millions for first place good then?
thorn shale
@winter swallow bUt hE gOt sOmE gOlD
spice briar
i quit cw ok ?@pale finch i go play löwe instead
silver vapor
@winter swallow I wouldn't say we did the "highest level" but you get the general meaning
pale finch
@spice briar want to platoon? I will quit too and play T34
spice briar
lets go
winter swallow
Top 8 on a server is highest level. I mean, even if you choke it's still a high level choke XD
silver vapor
High level choking is bad. everyone sees it.
thorn shale
insert Seattle flashbacks here 👉
silver vapor
You would just be made into a meme if you choke at high levels.
pallid raven
1.1 mill = 1 hour casual grinding
thorn shale
The credit rewards for this pro tourney have definitely been sad
And the gold is less than last year twister or pro tourney too
winter swallow
Top 3 get cash prizes though.
thorn shale
Only increase is actual money, which is definitely cool
silver vapor
my clan is mostly mid-level based players so they'll happily that QT rewards.
I like to look for more since I have been investing my time into tournaments (not for rewards but for nice team plays), and now I've stacked 2.2k tournaments and still the only rewards I really appreciated was the one in a million chance to go to Minsk for some offline combat
winter swallow
anticipating Rexy's comment
silver vapor
I personally find the chance for Minsk Offlines was way more rewarding than cash rewards/credit rewards .etc
tho we heavily memed it
pallid raven
You earn less playing 15 games in a Qt than 9 games in the ascent tournament
winter swallow
👀
thorn shale
👀👀👀
pale finch
Yeah of course the offline final is by far the most rewarding thing in this game, for me it’s all about that unique experience that so little people are lucky to get
silver vapor
👀
winter swallow
thorn shale
😂
silver vapor
lol
pallid raven
Or not
thorn shale
I’m barely able to contain my excitement
winter swallow
I do genuinely value this forum as a chance for players and WG to discuss tournaments though. Rexy is the man.
thorn shale
^
silver vapor
^^
pallid raven
^^^
thorn shale
Rexy has left the chat
pallid raven
👀
winter swallow
@spice briar *1st place over 14 Best of 5 series.
chilly terrace
@silver vapor That's the same.
@pale finch One hour in tournaments = one hour in random battles, if see on earning credits. Major tournaments are exception. You ask to get back Series tournaments from 2017 with their rewards, but if we did, it would be the tournaments where players come in for prizes, not for competitive.
Regarding Professionals Tournament - we will look again on calculations and will make decision based on our statistic (like we always do)
thorn shale
So you don’t want people to play for prizes? You want them to play for overall competition?
silver vapor
?they would come for the prize - but they would have to be competitive in order to get the prize, isn't it?
silver vapor
you guys aren't giving them the prize directly - you are making them play for competitiveness - but you don't reward them "appropriately", which means it's unlikely sustainable.
winter swallow
1 hour of tournament gameplay = 5 matches. 1 hour of public game play is a lot more.
thorn shale
He’s basically saying WG doesn’t want to incentivize the playerbase to play tournaments and earn more credits than pub matches. I’m sorry but if that MO holds true, why will people play tournaments?
pale finch
If you want to play for competitiveness only, @chilly terrace you will organize a training against a top level opponent and you will play 6-10 different maps in 1-2 hours of time and will be able to practice your strengths and weaknesses, tournaments is supposed to be played for rewards and competitiveness, that’s why the old tournament system was much better because the gold tournament gave you strong opponents and good rewards. Now, for a top level team there is no point in taking part in the “ ordinary “ tournaments.
silver vapor
people don't play for competitiveness only, and they don't play for prizes only. it's the combination of both that makes an actual "tournament scene"
thorn shale
If WG refuses to give good prizing in regular tournaments, the incentive to play said tournaments will cease to exist
The logic is... baffling
winter swallow
I don't commentate QT's for several reasons. That is because it is omega-luls and not terribly competitive... and EXTREMELY time consuming.
pale finch
My point is that good teams don’t play tournaments because of competitiveness, the team currently in finals, RA1D barely plays any tournaments at all, for example their front man in twister cup, Drizzell has only 900 tournament battles as a total and they’re still the team that successfully went to the finals on the EU region right away in prof tournament and managed to win last twister cup.
thorn shale
And think from player perspective @winter swallow
Same time commitment
Same omega LUL gameplay and still terrible rewards
Good teams rarely play QTs or other regular tourneys because the prizing isn’t good enough to commit the time
Ppl would rather grind tier 8 perms for credits and make a much larger profit than if they played a tourney
winter swallow
I have several QT invites on QT days on EU server account. Incentive to play?... no, it is much easier to farm credits in pub matches plus I can put the device down and crack on with something else if I feel like it.
thorn shale
^^
winter swallow
Tournament game play locks your time.
pale finch
And as I said previously to add to what @thorn shale said, the competitiveness in quick tournaments can’t be compared to when you organize a training against a strong opponent and play 6-10 different maps in 1-2 hours. It is far more rewarding for the competitive aspect of the game
winter swallow
I think it's important to note, all the people currently weighing in share a dozen odd servers. But we are choosing to discuss it here.
Dear WG, the reason we are here discussing is to be productive and helpful - not whiny.
So please don't misunderstand us - we aren't complaining. Only sharing our views and perspectives for your consideration.
pallid raven
Just give 2 mill per tournament and I'll be happy
chilly terrace
Guys, there are players with different level of playing except you. You don't like QT, but there are still players who play and like it.
pale finch
The matter is not liking or not, the matter is that the overall tournaments except twister and prof tournament are not rewarding enough to keep the competitive players interested and active
chilly terrace
@pale finch If it was the truth, there would not players in other tournaments at all.
pale finch
This is not correct at all, lol, I’m talking about the players that are participating in tournaments such as the twister cup, prof tournament and makes it to the competitive stages. I did not say anything about the mid-level players of the game.
chilly terrace
Oh, ok. Got you.
pale finch
I specifically took the frontman of the twister cup winning team raid as an example where I stated that he ( RA1D_Drizzell ) only has 900 total tournament battles and nearly every participates in tournaments between the twister cup and prof tournament, same goes for a lot of other competitive teams and players. That was my point.
chilly terrace
Sorry, but off-season is time for training. You are right, you have the gap between major tournaments, but you can spend this time for preparing to the next major tournament.
sudden fjord
There is no other way to make tourneys more competitive but increase rewards, so that players realize why they should play tourneys instead of farming in randoms/train in training room
winter swallow
^ farming. A skilled player can perform better and earn more in public matches .
thorn shale
If I win ascent tourney I get 1m+ credits
You lose credits every game cause you have to shot gold+ repairs
pallid raven
Not if you run boosters and premium account
thorn shale
Not everyone has prem time
dim pivot
I get what u meant by play for competition but i doubt anyone of us wud play tournaments if there were no actual profit by the end of tourney (where we lose creds every game), rather we wud just make training rooms and fight against other clans and lose no creds. Training rooms wud also allow time flexibility
My point is only way u can get more competition is by increasing rewards
also so many peeps watch twister cup, etc on ur channel
All this wudnt be possible if the top players stopped playing tournaments
So keep ur tournament players happy by increasing rewards
:/
winter swallow
If top players stopped playing - we'd have new "top" players to take their place.
dim pivot
Shh
winter swallow
We are fungible.
pale finch
Top players with a lower skill level, though
dim pivot
^^ yea thats totally wat i meant
winter swallow
They'd get there eventually. And the only people able to perceive a lower skill level are those involved in the current high level scene.
pallid raven
Adapt. Overcome. Improvise.
winter swallow
Even skilled and experienced players such as sk8 and Bushka (both awesome) don't see the comp meta nuance and skill curve.
But the only people who see that they don't see are the previously mentioned high scene level players and followers.
Most teams can't even comprehend how they truly lose to the top 20 teams on EU server. They just think the players are better.
vital obsidian
Qt not that time consuming anymore, wg done god job 👍
winter swallow
The truth is that most teams are beaten before they even leave the spawn simply due to tank selection and strategy.
sharp talon
^ that's a good point right there
winter swallow
Combine that with awe inspiring communication and team cohesion...
silver vapor
@winter swallow the better players always have "skill" on their side - so people often think that factor is more influential, and the cause of their loss when they lose to players with better skills
winter swallow
The onyl way to demonstrate to the masses what they are missing would be to stream from in a tournament team, with voice comms and showing stratsketches / tacticlinks
silver vapor
they would be too revealing - but excellent way to showcase the difference between a top team and a mid-level team
sharp talon
I wanna make another small point which maybe hasn't been discussed or noticed , since 1-2 weeks the coins for watching Spring Season have been disabled , yet the player base following the tournament's hasn't went down ... Ask yourself why is that ? Because players are still into watching the tournament's , some of them aspire to become such players or even take part in such tournament's ...
winter swallow
Just once on a QT where a top team plays their heart out is all we'd need.
That way you'd also see a range of opponents in quick succession.
sharp talon
@winter swallow I could arrange something like this ... Lemme talk to Zird first if he would be interested
pale finch
You can’t expect family friendly language though 🙃
sharp talon
@winter swallow ok , it's gonna be done , To the best of my capabilities
fringe galleon
Top teams dont do serious tactics vs lets say 50% teams. Do whatever you want and win. 7 VK72 rush? Doable. Skill is what matters. When teams are closer to each other skillwise, then tactics comes in to point.
sharp talon
But a 50% team can still be a worthy opponent if they have a general idea on how to prepare , what tanks to use , how to create a successful tactic and how to train it ...
winter swallow
Top teams don't - but to demonstrate the difference, maybe they could jsut once.
Like for example, I think a top team could beat a new team without conceding a single hit point (even 7v7) in early QT rounds, if they really put their minds to it.
fringe galleon
Of course, I understand your point. Im saying when skill cap is too big, tactics really doesnt matter, better team can do whatever they want and win easily.
vital obsidian
Bully
sharp talon
I can understand Ur PoV ... But my point is that we need ppl to aspire to be pros , as in professional players ... We need ppl to have a goal in game ... We need role models to wich they can aspire ... So they can one day become themselves the pro players ... For 2 years now the top teams in EU have been mostly the same ... With minor tweaks and new arrivals ... Those new arrivals are interesting ... Those who aspire to be the next big thing
silver vapor
^
dreamy adder
If it was the truth, there would not players in other tournaments at all.
We play it when there is no better tournament at this moment
sharp talon
@dreamy adder and what experience do u get out of it ? U do It for competition and growth as a team or just for fun ?
dreamy adder
Both but more for fun
sharp talon
your honor , I rest my case
elfin anvil
you can only play QT to have fun, anyone saying its for actual training/growth as a team hasnt played in a training room
also for competition is hard to imagine when most teams are on a really low skill level and not rarely play with only 6
green sierra
Lol qt are so bad, play 1-2h to get around 1mil credits, go in lowe play for same time yoi will get double the amount of credits
vital obsidian
Is not the whole game for fun 👀
if you want to do qt just do it you dont need feel ashamed cause someone dont like the mode
gentle sierra
Full tier 9 team 😂 @vital obsidian
vital obsidian
I look forward for future mad game qt late nite, In weekends
Ye its allowed to use t9 so why not
gentle sierra
😂
winter swallow
what the.... in a tournament?
sharp token
that's just mean
thorn shale
That's actually epic 😂😂
fathom tiger
looks like grinding time
zenith quest
I Have Fresh Meme
lost panther
aaa
thorn shale
Hi
flat goblet
Let’s be real. ‘Top players’ aren’t the focus for in game tournament systems (QT and regular tourneys). It is unrealistic to think that WG would tailor those to meet top team’s expectations.
However, WG should have a clear goal for what they want to do with their ‘esports’ scene. Wether they do or do not is something we the players will likely never see simply due to how WG is run. Which is unfortunate imo because communication between the players and WG would be extremely helpful in setting up/expanding/improving the ‘esports’ side of blitz.
arctic axle
@flat goblet but shouldn't 'top players' be able to enjoy the game too? Normally top, bad and average players all have very different perspectives of what is good and bad for the game
flat goblet
In what sense do you mean enjoy the game?
keen oar
Top teams don’t play for the game, we play for all the other players on the team
burnt ingot
I just want better rewards lol we have worked so hard and long for these months to get like a mil credits so bad honesty just toxic...
sharp token
it's usually not what the minority wants but what the majority wants that gets accomplished so yeah
arctic axle
@flat goblet Normally top player want to get hefty rewards for being good. If the rewards in tourneys are too low and still have to split them amongst the team (9 way normally) they are going to think that they are not very important to the game and do not make an impact, resulting in slowly and gradually losing interest
burnt ingot
So the majority don't want more rewards? @sharp token
sharp token
also have to factor in not crashing the games economy
burnt ingot
I'm not saying in insane amount but something more would be nice a mil credits is honestly garbage
flat goblet
Well, to be fair, the top minority shouldn’t be dictating what the majority wants. That being said, it is interesting to see how the economy of tourneys affects who is playing them. By making rewards less than spectacular, you get less “seal clubbing” top teams playing them for more than their own enjoyment and memes. Which should mean more mid-low tier teams participate.
burnt ingot
Tbh I've put way more credits in this tourney then what I get out repairs a lot in ammo and getting last two equip spots on my tier 10s I play in comp I've probably lost money lmao
flat goblet
If that’s the case, can’t be sure.
keen oar
Or WG can make all the consumables repairs ammos and other costs in tournaments 0, just like the training rooms @flat goblet
arctic axle
But by having bad rewards WG does not encourage more team/clans/players to try out and see if they want to start taking part in more tourney. Low rewards just throw off players, without them even trying or experiencing tournament battles. (I am saying this because I have seen 66%ers with less than 50 tournament battles)
keen oar
Like let’s be honest here the current “major tournaments” rewards are less than the gold series back in the days 😂
burnt ingot
^
flat goblet
I think tournaments suffer most from matchmaking to be honest. A group of friends playing the game with relatively decent win rate, trying to simply play together are likely going to find either much worse teams or much stronger teams. But this is a difficult issue to solve simply because there is no clear cut metric for judging a team's skill level.
arctic axle
(sorry for the late answer) So what you are trying to say is that (for example) a team of 7 45% friends can win against 7 70% player who haven't even met each other in battle ? Also if friends want to play together, then a platoon or countdown ain't so hard
flat goblet
No, i'm saying the experience of playing random WG tournament is likely not going to be valuable in that most teams won't get a "good" fight.
sharp token
yeah like the thrill is when you meet an evenly matched team so it's a close battle
green sierra
QT is wort tour ever
keen oar
Looking at other games’ esport scene maybe we should make a leaderboard for each server, mm the clans that are ranked closer together for anything outside of major tournaments. That way we can have ppl chasing after the top of the leaderboard make the scene more competitive and introduce clan rank prizes? Like make clan competition into an official thing?
I believe even wot pc have a leaderboard for skirmishes, blitz should have one too, rankings can be based on points accumulated and head to head wins?
@thorn shale @flat goblet whatchu think
flat goblet
That is a possibility, but what about teams? Teams in a clan can be ranked quite differently from one another in the same clan, so there is that issue to handle when thinking about that.
keen oar
We can like first form tournaments based on wr, and later into mm base on the rankings: 1-10 on the leaderboard face each other more often, 11-20 , and so on
sharp token
yeah but when a top clan has 2 teams one stronger other weaker what then
flat goblet
And then you delve into non-clan tournaments, which is even more difficult to rank
keen oar
Idk in the current situation is ppl switch on and off teams all the time and it’s definitely not viable for beginners
Only if blitz have an actual esports structure teams sponsors and everything 😂
flat goblet
But even then, that elo/ranking type system would only really work for the higher ups. Again, mid-low end teams won't benefit a whole lot from it other than getting clubbed by top teams less often.
sharp token
Team reign sponsored by kfc
arctic axle
Idk why, but this is the most fun and interesting chat