@fiery dagger imma havta disagree there chief, no one shoots the AT 15 there.
#tank-balance-discussion
real bison
rare sleet
no need to shoot the AT-15 there because if you can pen all of at-15 its a waste of aiming
serene rapids
With the batchat becoming irrelevant with the introduction of the tvp, I think an extra shell in its magazine would make it semi-competitive again
dense yoke
IS4 deserves a nerf.
mental pasture
It's fun only for the user, as like Smasher and Annihilator are funny only for the users
pastel viper
Leave IS-4 alone plox, it's fun
@flat bane
It's fun?????
You can do yoga, bake some cookies, walk your pet, talk to your parents, mow your lawn and do all kinds of stuffs while simultaneously playing the IS4.
It's absolutely brain dead, 100% idiot proof and mind numbingly boring.
If you like to drool on yourself then I guess you can call it "fun".
The only reason IS4 is in its current state because there are too many wheelchair bound players playing the game and they need a "special" vehicle to climb in ratings or just win games.
hardy hazel
Being a rock doesnt win you games lol but i agree, IS4 is dumb proof tank, you have armor, hp and the prammo pen to do everything without being punished that hard
pastel viper
Is4 wins you games. Any avg player can do well in that tank without any issues.
Twister starts on Friday, just wait and watch how many IS4s are in every match.
If nothing drastically changes, get ready to watch 2-3 IS4 s per team every game.
oh you took that personally? cool!
nimble zodiac
Haha T-2020 is balanced 👍
Good ol skill ceilings
dense yoke
@civic topaz ^
civic topaz
@dense yoke Thanks
drowsy plaza
If you want to look at above/below averages for WR (I have another for Dmg, but I’ll add that later is needed) it’s clear that Heavy Tanks are winning, and surprising probably no one, doing a lot more damage than other classes, simply because the HP buffs they live a lot longer and able to dish out more damage. Most of the tier X HT’s should be nerf’d, while many TD’s buffed, and a few Meds plus the BC and Sheridan buffed - with a nerf to the Vickers Light, STB and minor ones to the 50M and 121. Undisputed is that the 3 Biggest clear standouts for Nerfing are the E3, Maus, IS-4
minor minnow
@drowsy plaza This has me interested, what would you consider nerfing on the E50M? I completely agree that it is a strong tank, and quite the bully but what in particular? I’ve never seen it in comp, just pubs or the occasional ratings battle, so I’d like a more experienced player’s insight
karmic steeple
That sentiment is coming simply from looking at the stats on this chart neither the 121 or 50m are used for comp
drowsy plaza
@karmic steeple true. The E50M is a pretty good pubbie tank - but it’s neither fish nor fowl for tournaments due to size and the fact it doesn’t have heavy HP.
I’m just throwing comments out based on WG’s balance data.
Tournament meta is different due to team strategy and maps. The E50M doesn’t really fit a role there, that can’t be better filled by another tank.
From a practical side, I wouldn’t nerf any med, I would probably up their pen and tweak several of them in terms of gun handling.
jagged crescent
I'd buff the med pen but i'm just wondering to what extent
karmic steeple
Not much if at all most can already pen heavies frontally with pramo which is how it should be for a medium or you get into why are they a medium with such good pen. I’d rather see heavies hp reduced some. Not to where they were before Bc I do think that the buff was needed Bc mediums were dominating but they got overbuffed obviously
spark gorge
in addition to balancing tech tree tanks more, WG should also fix the premiums and collectors that are more broken than a tech tree tank ever could be
sharp laurel
Buffing Jag HEAT pen back to its original values could make it more competitive...
twilit crystal
@drowsy plaza for heavy tanks HP they should have put a view range nerf by 10 -20 meters for all heavy tanks, for the premium heavies dont nerf the view range but instead give them the alternative turret which gives the HP buff but also the view range nerf
mental pasture
@sharp laurel jag is already competitive enough
sharp laurel
Bit too sluggish though
mental pasture
Nope, it's speed is just a bit slower than E100, which is understandable since both share the same engine and Jagdpanzer E100 is 4 tons heavier
There's nothing to buff or nerf on jageroo
mental pasture
Jagdpanzer E100 isn't made for frontline, you can do it but only at your own risk
It's a second line TD that shouldn't be much far away or too close from the vanguard
Also, speed buff for it doesn't make sense, only it's slowness isn't a reason for that, that's why Maus, E100, Vk 72, IS-4, etc don't need a speed buff
They may be extremely slow, but if you play them well, then the speed will be a small problem@austere citrus
Also, the armor/speed is pretty fair, same armor of E100 but with a giant impenetrable mantlet, meanwhile it's just a bit slower than E100
raw fiber
It needs a traverse buff
sharp laurel
Well are we forgetting that IS-4 has a greater top speed than E5 and its got better armour?
mental pasture
Why did you deleted your comments @RenChen#0842? Oh well, he actually disappeared from the server
@sharp laurel yes, but E5 have engine boost and a much better acceleration, but you still get a good point
Why does IS-4 have a better max speed than a true heavium?
austere citrus
Increase armor thickness of Conqueror's cheeks. It's also 180mm below the gun's.
PC Conqueror. PC Conqueror also has 152mm upper glacis while the Blitz version has 130mm.
coarse harness
Wow that logic🤯
mental pasture
It explains why my PC and my Smartphone are so bad, lol
dense yoke
Nerf Is4. Too strong.
It is either nerf: Speed/Armor/gun
minor plover
Gold ammo exist, small tip from my side.
mental pasture
And IS-4 armor stills thicker than most medium/light prammo, oof
That top speed is too high for the almighty IS-4
Also, how many prammo does penetrate an IS-4 sidescraping? Not much of them
unique scaffold
Country has nothing to do with how the games handled simply WG (blitz) needs to be more strict or replace their teams
mental pasture
Hey sir "patriot", if nationality could resolve game problems, then EA wouldn't be the worst big company at video games market
Would be more worth to contract 4 Brazilians and make WOTB become a soccer game 🤣 jokes aside, @fair dome your last 2 comments makes no sense at all
sharp laurel
Either buff E5 top speed to actually make it a heavium that functions or nerf IS-4 top speed
mossy wraith
@fair dome nokia communicator was a smartphone!
Just continue to ignore the facts
fair dome
Yes the Nokia Communicator was a smartphone in the same manner that the Abacus is a calculator.
sharp laurel
Give KV-1 dpm gun back to balance it
mental pasture
There's no point on giving that DPM back, it's a tech tree, you're not supposed to have a real high number of battles on it, unless if you're a seal clubber
@fair dome @mossy wraith
Pfff, everyone knows that Nokia is linked with conspiracy, illegal fishing between Finland and Japan, flat earth and turreted Jagdpanzer E100
🕵️♂️
thick rover
Did someone say buff E5
teal palm
Top speed buff
The last thing it needs ngl
noble quail
Congratulations
You made the M48 Patton more useless
last shadow
Is it even possible to make the patton more useless?
dense yoke
removing the tank?
full slate
Since there is the progetto 65, that so useless to play the M48 patton..
coarse harness
Yeah 5.5 is the worst update
It gave me 20K gold for tanks I wouldn't use anyways
Evil WG😡
noble quail
Is it even possible to make the patton more useless?
yes, just leave it out in the dust without buffing it or anything and the player base will gradually say it's useless
oh wait.... It's already happening now
tame fox
Is there anyone who feels the flat panzer is more balanced after this 👇🏻
compact valve
And IS-4 armor stills thicker than most medium/light prammo, oof
That top speed is too high for the almighty IS-4
Also, how many prammo does penetrate an IS-4 sidescraping? Not much of them
@mental pasture then maybe don’t attack an is4 head on in a medium? Not sure why any medium player is brawling with a heavy in the first place.
fiery dagger
That doesn't change the fact it's overcooked.
compact valve
It isn’t really, he’s comparing mediums to heavies, which ofc they’re going to struggle against them front on. Other heavies still compete with the is4, such as the e5.
low wolf
buff chaffee top speed to 65~70km/h
dense yoke
Is4 is strong, yes.
Just nerf IS4
fair dome
yes, just leave it out in the dust without buffing it or anything and the player base will gradually say it's useless
oh wait.... It's already happening now
@noble quail You hide your head in the sand saying "Power Creep"....."What Power Creep?"
gleaming apexBOT
Amerikanskiy Zakhvatchik {FUWBS}#3180 has been warned.
nimble zodiac
Ah yes, it’s the tank’s fault that the player using it did 0 damage 😒
winged barn
When you are a stock conqueror and get chased by a maus, yes it is
unique scaffold
Whole tier 6 tech tree is totally unbalanced against tier 7 . It is frustrating to play tier 6 while matchmaker brings tier 7 fantacy tanks at enemy.
austere citrus
You're not wrong.
hardy hazel
<!406389526542680064> then maybe don’t attack an is4 head on in a medium? Not sure why any medium player is brawling with a heavy in the first place.
@compact valve sometimes you have to deal with heavys when you are on a light or a med, and the pramo pen is not enough to pen is 4 reliably even with calibrated, so, yeah
mossy wraith
Whole tier 6 tech tree is totally unbalanced against tier 7 . It is frustrating to play tier 6 while matchmaker brings tier 7 fantacy tanks at enemy.
@unique scaffold that was the plan all the way long
dusky bay
well, i dont know, i think AMX AC 46 should get ARMOR BUFF and decrease the size of the cupolas, i feel its the worse tier7 TD and cant do a lot in battle
unique scaffold
Makes no sence even to try to play new mission tank on garage while it is useles.
dense yoke
there are some reasons why i don't play alot of tier 1-6 or 7
austere citrus
That is actually nerfing it.
polar stag
So basically make the smasher and annhilator atier 8 tanks with preferential matchmaking, so they only face tier 7 and tier 8
unique scaffold
Or tier VI players could learn not to pull out in front of a Smasher or Annihilator and how to exploit both tanks poor agility and long reload.
pseudo hedge
That's why 5.5 was bad. With derp tanks at tier 4 and 5 they would learn it before encountering Unicums in smachers.
orchid grove
@unique scaffold Exploiting long reloads is hard when they out DPM you and have 4x the firepower. Take a VK 28.01 vs. an Annihlator. You won't be exploiting much when he straight up has 1k more DPM than you. Long reloads don't mean jack when the DPM is so high (and the reload isn't even that long, 13.3s on the annihlator is only a smidge longer than 13.06s on a 252U for instance)
unique scaffold
@orchid grove I'm not saying it isn't OP. It's definitely OP and they are all over the place. As it stands right now the team with the best Anni driver wins. The new meta is keep your Anni alive and kill the red ones. My point was that there are still things that can be exploited even though the tank is beyond spectacular.
But I stand my statement. If tier VI tanks would stop doing dumb things in front of these two tanks they'd last a bit longer.
orchid grove
@unique scaffold I've tooned with some friends at tier 7, and messing around primarily in the M41 Bulldog. I'd like to think I'm a pretty decent player, but even still, I slip up pretty often given that there's basically 5 of them per battle, and even just one mistake will cost you more than half of your HP, even in a tier 7 (let alone a tier 6). If I can't do it consistently, I'd venture to say the casual player with 5k battles, that just started this year, grinding through his first tier 6 medium is going to have a seriously rough time, so I can't really be blaming them
full slate
Or the focus them and try to know their weakness like the annihilator, fight him in distance but after it depends on the map.. And the shell velocity suck of Smasher too
unique scaffold
No doubt you are good. I also have slipped up in front of them...
That being said platooning them is hilarious.
dense walrus
sure, it punishes mistakes, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it does so at such an alarming (and skill-independent) rate that it really isn't healthy for the game. sure, some players might learn not to sit out in front of the tank, but most will just submit to the fear factor and cower behind cover the whole battle. this just fuels a more passive meta, which is a huge problem already
nocturne mauve
Smasher is literally overrated, it does have weaknesses
full token
It does, but also enough strengths to make it unbalanced
orchid grove
Having weaknesses doesn't mean a tank isn't broken. Easiest counterexample to point to is WT E100 on PC. Slow, huge, with the worst camo rating in the game, and a massive 14mm turret vulnerable to HE, and being one-shotted by arty.
Still incredibly broken @nocturne mauve
drowsy plaza
New players didn’t learn in 2014, so why would they know.
hardy hazel
How things are now:
1 new players have it easy to rush first 5 tiers learning just a little of the basic game play
2 the lack of diversity in those tiers leads to ppl not knowing how to play each kind of tank (see: Heavys, meds, lights and tds) this mean that you will find a lot of campers in higer tiers and HE spam
i could list more things but im lazy
orchid grove
@muted rampart It's also important to remember that back in 2014, everyone was terrible.
Nowadays, the average player is actually a lot better than they used to be. Think, when's the last time you saw an actual turret spinner? Probably never
unique scaffold
6 years really don’t mean much you could have been around since the car was introduced but don’t remember what it looked like battles back then were much different in the tiers higher tiers were played by rare PC players when Wot was still a bit new lower tiers were completely fresh and everyone was awful
twilit crystal
@orchid grove yeah IMO vickers CR is super OP but however I don't really think its broken because all it does is does everything most mediums do but a bit faster etc, still needs a nerf but there isn't any one aspect thats completely broken, on the other hand the 183 is broken but awful
drowsy plaza
The NA Forum has threads from Oct 2014 about terrible players in tier X.
I think anyone thinking players got worse is just looking thru the lens of how they personally got better and now see a lot more bad play.
unique scaffold
Players have always been bad. As you get better they will look even worse.
full slate
@nocturne mauve turret traverse speed is slow so easily circle by Light tank if u are smart and his gun depression is bad. You said this be cause u dont know how to deal with.
flat bane
Damn, Vickers CR is amazing Imao.
green whale
Na server is cooling down
austere citrus
Mostly because turret+small size. The gun is british so it's quite nice, but it's super small and fast which makes it good.
flat bane
Not to mention the high HE pen that cracks most lights and meds it goes against.
drowsy plaza
@muted rampart I honestly don't think it mattered - by and large the player base is bad. Something I posted on the NA Forum Crusader6, on 03 November 2020 - 06:25 AM, said:
I get your frustrations, I am serious when I say this game is significantly more complex than it appears.
Because of that there is a massive delta in skills between players. Some of the best players (not me) make it look absolutely effortless - and they roll around and have perfect angles and rarely take hits while making hits.
They do not do that by luck, they do it because they have an exceptional understanding of not just game mechanics, but their tank, and the tank they are effectively farming.
<snip>
The only difference from now and then, is there is a larger middle class in Blitz
flat bane
Can make you add a "TL:DR"?
minor minnow
I gotchu
TL:DR: New players aren’t able to learn the playstyle necessary for certain tanks and are making their way up through tiers too fast, hence the influx of “Nubs” into high tiers
flat bane
Thank you
minor minnow
👌
minor minnow
Completely missed that part, apologies
flat bane
@muted rampart agreed, I hate those braindead sealclubber's who have over 5k battles in a T1-5 and ruin higher matches. Not to mention, if you call them out on their stupidity they always say their stats are better due to the sealclubbing.
lost dagger
Nerf Annihilator please, thanks :)
winged barn
Nah, they no longer appear to care about balance
flat bane
WG's idea of balance is litterly poison the poison.
winged barn
Add a base to an acid
Gotta be big brain to understand this
foggy delta
K
austere citrus
Give Turret Buff To Conqueror.
jagged crescent
minor hull buff would be nice as well
austere citrus
130mm Upper glacis -> 140mm Upper glacis. And make the turret cheeks around 200mm(effective) to 300mm effective. Maybe even give it the spaced armor like the Super Conqueror because PC conqueror is... Like strong. The Conqueror on PC is like the Super Conqueror on Blitz. Making it a viable Heavy tank option would be nice and not get penned by tier 8s. @minor minnow This is PC Conqueror in the image.
minor minnow
If you wanted spaced armor on the turret that’s called a super conquerer
frosty oriole
conqueror trades literally EVERYTHING for the gun
average mobility and NO armor for a super accurate mid-high DPM hesh-firing gun
to be honest, if conqueror got a better turret, I'd play conqueror over fv215b any day
austere citrus
The gun is quite good(not the best), but the turret is weaker than many medium turrets. Like honestly, it doesn't even need a hull buff, a turret buff would be sufficient since the current tank is just weak.
nocturne mauve
@nocturne mauve turret traverse speed is slow so easily circle by Light tank if u are smart and his gun depression is bad. You said this be cause u dont know how to deal with.
@full slate
I do know how to deal with smasher
noble quail
Add a base to an acid
Gotta be big brain to understand this
Yes, to neutralize
flat bane
To nullify the acidity, yeah. Basic middle school chemistry lol.
last shadow
Would rather throw water into the acid and watch.
vital basalt
When is Centurion 1,Centurion 7/1 and Caernarvon Turret buff
all of them has 165mm cheeks and 200mm gun mantlet while new coming 5/1 will have 250mm cheeks and 500mm gun mantlet
ornate viper
pls balanc the vickers
it doesn't need that turret
i don't understand why it's called a light tank then
sudden path
Um emil 1 looked kinda tall
exotic light
Bruh emil1 broken
honest dagger
if these last chart doesnt prove that the emil is a bit overcooked then i dont know what does
steel palm
is this what everybody's been chattering bout?
unique scaffold
emil
indigo knot
Any balance changes .....E3 and some HTs nerfs???
lusty silo
if these last chart doesnt prove that the emil is a bit overcooked then i dont know what does
@honest dagger
it is. We'll track the stats next update to decide how to nerf it.
Any balance changes .....E3 and some HTs nerfs???
@indigo knot all the changes for upcoming futures will be announced a bit later
unique scaffold
@lusty silo any love planned for the Batchat?
candid steeple
E4 could use some cheeks buffs.
wanton stag
nerf emil 1
craggy kayak
OBJ 252u: I am the best!
Emil 1 : hold my beer
muted rampart
at #devs-answers still anything changed about T28, tortoise and 183
any changes planned for one of those tanks?
vital basalt
Remove that Lower plate On T28 and it'll be good and you can see it on Stats .-.
lusty silo
@lusty silo any love planned for the Batchat?
@unique scaffold wait for announcement 😉
unique scaffold
Will do. Thanks boss
open pewter
the cromwell and cromwell b armor is not as historically correct, any plan on slightly increasing it?
full slate
Why only the annihilator have this consumable and not other hybrid nation tank? like the lupus, nameless ect? They should have this consumable i think https://prnt.sc/vdc1oo
lusty silo
@lusty silo Not sure if you will answer this, but will WG retain the 60km/h of the TVP T 50/51 or will it get nerfed similar to the Progetto 65 and Standard B?
@drifting horizon TVP hasn't been tested yet, it's too early to predict anything.
Any thoughts of Kranvagn's performance? After 7.3 release lots of people claimed it was trash.
languid comet
Emil I is fine lol (joke) / PS: I need to contact WG, how can I do it?
unborn sparrow
I'm surprised to see the Kranvagn's winrate that high
lusty silo
Emil I is fine lol / PS: I need to contact WG, how can I do it?
@languid comet Emil is not fine, it's obvious.
mossy pollen
Emil has a tiny, thin profile and is well sloped with thick armor. The turret is fine, the speed and hull are not.
noble quail
Also...
Any love for the M48?
or it's just gonna stay the same for years
muted rampart
@lusty silo what about fv 183? it s clear and obvious for everybody that a tank is underperforming and has the worst wr from all t Xs since it was nerfed 2 years ago if i remember correctly. ik that tank is problematic because of it s alpha, but it doesn t mean that it doesn t need any changes.
about kranvagn, i think it s quite balanced.
indigo knot
Any thoughts of Kranvagn's performance? After 7.3 release lots of people claimed it was trash.
@lusty silo tbh it isn't that good....
Tho will call it well balanced
Emil 2 is kinda okish when top tier but lacks turret armour when bottom tier still is okish
Emil 1 is best out of the lot....armour on it needs to be nerfed and with gun depression it higher clip potential it has kinda made Amx50100 obsolete..(Side armour should be nerfed with some hull armour nerf)
craggy kayak
RIP Amx 50 100
full slate
Emil I need a nerf armor to the hull tanks
Emil II need a buff on his turret armor, all tier X can pen IT even in Hulldown without prammo.
Kravangn is fine. Very balanced @lusty silo
lusty silo
@lusty silo what about fv 183? it s clear and obvious for everybody that a tank is underperforming and has the worst wr from all t Xs since it was nerfed 2 years ago if i remember correctly. ik that tank is problematic because of it s alpha, but it doesn t mean that it doesn t need any changes.
about kranvagn, i think it s quite balanced.
@muted rampart Death star is exceptional tank requiring special approach The stats it has right now would be unacceptable for other vehicles. But we're satisfied with it's performance.
twin fulcrum
Any thoughts of Kranvagn's performance? After 7.3 release lots of people claimed it was trash.
@lusty silo i know from a lot of top 8 clan players on the NA server really like the kran because of its ability to hold a frontline because of its turret armor and gun depression, as well as the auto-reloading gun it has. But in my opinion the playstyle of the kranvagn is different than other heavies, so players playing it like (for example) an IS-4 or T110E5 don't perform as well, rather than playing the Kran hull-down and not very aggressive. But yes, the Kranvagn is very balanced at the state it is right now.
sudden path
@lusty silo what about a vickers cr nerf? It has been way over any other tier 9 for 3 patches now
Ok thank you for actually being here to answer some stuff
lusty silo
@lusty silo what about a vickers cr nerf? It has been way over any other tier 9 for 3 patches now
@sudden path guys, please stop asking about future changes. I've said already that we'll announce it later.
@lusty silo i know from a lot of top 8 clan players on the NA server really like the kran because of its ability to hold a frontline because of its turret armor and gun depression, as well as the auto-reloading gun it has. But in my opinion the playstyle of the kranvagn is different than other heavies, so players playing it like (for example) an IS-4 or T110E5 don't perform as well, rather than playing the Kran hull-down and not very aggressive. But yes, the Kranvagn is very balanced at the state it is right now.
@twin fulcrum that's true. I hope that tank will take its own niche.
hollow warren
actually I believe the Emil needs a mobility and gun stat nerf
- it's too accurate and has too good of an aim time
- it goes 20km/h backwards, with the super engine boost it's 30, broken. It can run away from you without getting punished.
muted rampart
@lusty silo i have one more question. what about this completly unnecesary jgpz 4 buff? nearly nobody thinks that a tier 6 tank with dpm better than leopard 1 is good idea. i just want to know the reason why WG decided to do something like that. and it would be nice to know if Wg is thinking about not implementing this idea, because it definetly can break tier 6 even more than it is rn
tough talon
So, will nerf emil1? It's unstoppable.
languid comet
Yes, for sure he will receive a Nerf...maybe (In OT 7.5 maybe)
distant river
Emil 1s stats genuinely made me laugh lol
Yes it's a new tank so will be inflated a bit but if you didn't know what the Emil was you would have assumed it's April 1st and some poorly timed joke.
Other interesting points are CR still being stupid (WR only dropped 2% since the stats from when it was implemented), Vickers light having higher WR and damage than meds (WR is sort of expected, damage definitely not), and heavies still over performing across the board at tier 8 and 10. E3 is also too high up the charts for what it should be and the batchat line looks like it needs buffs to make it more forgiving but that almost ruins it's playstyle.
unborn sparrow
I do like the fast reverse speed on these Swedish heavies and it makes them feel more unique in that aspect so I think it’d be bad to remove that trait. The emil 1’s upper plate should I think be reduced to paper unless its hull down in order to help balancing it but the gun is definitely too accurate. I found the gun on the Emil 2 to be pretty innacurate although maybe I was rushing a bit so I threw some credits into buying equipment into the emil 2 and now its pretty fun. Emil 2 is pretty strong considering its high penetration only being made better by using calibrated shells. Kranvagn I haven’t got yet so can’t make an opinion on it.
karmic lark
give emil 1 a hp nerf and a frontal armor nerf so that emil 1, a tank that weights 20 tons has 1 less hp than vk 100 01 p, a superheavy tank in the same tier that weights 120 tons, also nerf the gun's single shot damage to 200 because 320 is too frickin cancer for a autoloader with that strong armor and small profile, almost no frontal weakspots on the turret because its so small, if you nerf the singleshot damage for emil, be sure to decrease the mag reload time
mossy pollen
The Emil 1 is a T8 E5 but given an autoloader, retaining megaspeed, with a better tier-for-tier armor profile and also has reticle calibration. If that doesn’t scream OP idk what does. Nerf the upper plate, and the speed. The mega speed is great for rotations, but it doesnt require that speed at all times to be a good tank.
lunar niche
Remove all special consumables too.
plush perch
wassup with tier 8 graphs lmao
Nerf vickers for gods sake
full token
T44 doing better than the T54mod1
winged barn
T44 is a solid tank. It does not deserve the hate it gets
woven harness
@lusty silo Is there any planned "change" to the FV215B 183? not necessarily a buff, but the tank is clearly not doing as well as the other TDs.
@muted rampart thx
winter locust
the better a tank is on release the more ppl gonna $$ it, so makes sense that emil is dummy stronk
muted rampart
@muted rampart Death star is exceptional tank requiring special approach The stats it has right now would be unacceptable for other vehicles. But we're satisfied with it's performance.
@woven harness
turbid smelt
@winged barn it does
it is garbage infront of t54 lt wt
noble quail
Will there be any buffs on the M48 Patton line? That tank line kinda needs a buff in my opinion.
I'll a look at the announcements if there's a planned buff for the line
winged barn
@turbid smelt still better than almost all the tier 8 tech tree meds. Even the t44 100, which is a direct downgrade of the t44 is still very usable
steel apex
@lusty silo - yeah - I have to agree the ~FV183 really does need a buff - and as you say that is clearly obvious. However, unfortuantely with people like @drowsy plaza who I note is a Moderator on here a sensible discusasion can't be had - and I refer to my correspondence to the Support Team about that.
As I understand it these stats are for the 55-65% Player base; so its not the case that excessive 'poor' players are playing it - hence the poor performace - because they are excluded from the Stats. The fact is that any tank is OP in the hands of a very skilled player.
However, for the skill base that WG use; the FV183 is a significantly poor performer.
scarlet fjord
Nerf the DPM, alpha damage on the broken toxicity that you can notice on the screen specially for some reason its especially visible when your looking at the T28 : )
unborn sparrow
Nobody’s going to want a 200 alpha gun and 600 clip potential with 3 seconds between shots that’ll be absolutely awful even given its other statistics. Not a solution
full token
Not 200. 310 is good. It’s what 105mm guns have at that tier
hardy hazel
When is Centurion 1,Centurion 7/1 and Caernarvon Turret buff
all of them has 165mm cheeks and 200mm gun mantlet while new coming 5/1 will have 250mm cheeks and 500mm gun mantlet
@vital basalt those dont need an turret buff, the ones that need it are FV4202 and Conqueror
mental pasture
Nobody is going to mention about Annihilator having a 90mm cannon and being shot 122mm HE shells? The shells are literraly thicker than the cannon
fiery dagger
@hardy hazel Those also pretty much need it, at least the caernarvon.
vital basalt
Caernarvon is a heavy but Charioteer can pen its turret with HESH
mental pasture
Seems pretty easy to penetrate
civic topaz
@mental pasture Post a screenshot where the tank is hulldown as it actually should be
hardy hazel
i mean, everything is fun and laughs until you get the second turret in the conqueror or get the fv4202, is like you trade everything for the gun it has. Compared to the lower tiers, its turret is more effective than conq and 4202, and premium HESH is no excuse to the bad turret 4202 has.
mental pasture
It still possible with CS...
hearty steeple
But if 4202 gets a good turret then why would you play any other medium? You can hulldown do 4k+ dpm with hesh. You have plenty of effective p/w ratio. I addition it gets really good ufp and a fantastic gun even without the hesh
shrewd bronze
BatChat needs buff, its been power crept by all other lights, its too situational to be effective
full token
WG might do something for the BC. But they won’t say now
hardy hazel
Not asking for it to be the king of turret armor, just make thicker it the ring part that is pretty much flat when its in front of you and it the angled upper plate, but just a little like 10mm, also, it has a cupola, even if its good at hull down it becomes a weak spot
drowsy plaza
@mental pasture the 122mm note on the 90mm HE for the Annihilator just let’s you know it has a 122mm blast radius for HE damage - but it’s a 90mm shell
@steel apex as was mentioned before WG nerfed the 183 twice before. Why, because nearly everyone in the game hates it. Why would WG buff It? It’s a blight and should remain where it is. If it won’t be removed.
sinful leaf
Here we go again...
Spare me the details, I don't want to bother about the Death Star anymore.
dense walrus
Death star is exceptional tank requiring special approach. The stats it has right now would be unacceptable for other vehicles. But we're satisfied with it's performance.
Neither does WG. If RibbleStripe says it is fine then maybe stop complaining about it.
meager spruce
beating dead horses if fun
glossy bay
Yes
raven totem
I do it 4 times a day
steel apex
@drowsy plaza - why aren't I surprised you don't refer to any evidence supporting your allegation as to how many people like or dislike a particualr tank? The fact is you don't. WG decided to bring it into the game - and hence it should be blanced fairly like any other tank - or they should remove it - but then there's an issue concerning the time and money that people have used to obtain it.
However, this section is about the discussion of 'Balance' - not what tanks should or should not be in the game - so maybe you should try and keep the discussion on topic.
@sinful leaf - @unique scaffold if you can't have a sensible discussion about a particular tank - and have no interest in it - like you've just identified you don't - then simply don't comment upon the subject.
@dense walrus - as far as I was aware this chanel is about discussing the balance of a tank. Therefore peple will have oppsing views - and the idea is that those views are discussed here. Someone else has raised the issue of the FV183; @lusty silo has commented upon that - and I've commented upon his post. Indeed, @lusty silo posted up the recently released Satas and pointed people to this Channel to discuss the balance. That's what a 'discussion' forum is about . Again, if you don't want to discuss a subject - then don't. However, its not for you to say what 'balance' subjects can or cannot be discussed on this channel.
unique scaffold
False.
The ironic thing is iirc weren’t you muted over this subject weeks ago because you couldn’t keep it civil and should point out the 183 discussion was weeks ago talk about holding a grudge
I see no point in rehashing the same discussion over and over and over again. That is not a discussion. That is two people speaking in individual echo chambers.
I've said my piece on the tank and now I'm moving on.
dense walrus
@steel apex well clearly I can't control what people say but I can certainly point out when people are being completely unreasonable and beating the dead horse, a horse that WG has already addressed multiple times. It's fine to have a civil discussion about topics, but having the same tired shouting match over something irrelevant is just foolish.
Can we just talk about how broken the Emil 1951 is going to be...
austere citrus
Money for war gaming
hearty steeple
I really hope wg gives 1951 another look after seeing the tier 8 balance charts
steel apex
@unique scaffold - if you actually look at the discussion - you will see it was others who couldn't keep the discussion civil - including a Moderator. Not really sure that your post is about a balance discussion - as I said; you can disagree that the FV183 needs a buff or, if you don't have any interest in the subject - don't post about it. or reply to a post about it.
@dense walrus - well clearly people do want to discuss it - because I didn't rasie this mater again - as explained in my post above - I was responding to a comment from @lusty silo who was responding to someone else. Again, if you don't want to discuss a tank - don't post about it - but others are entitled to discuss it - and new people are joining every day - and are also entitled to discuss it.
sudden path
No for the last time, a viable 183 encourages camping. Not good for tier 9 and 10. Sit down now.
dense walrus
Quick thought on t8 meds. They don't seem to be doing so bad in 7.2 charts, which is shocking considering how bad they are widely considered to be, and the fact that the heavies wayyy outperformed them in 7.1 charts. Is it reasonable to assume that a lot of the heavy drivers focused on playing the Emil, and that is why the rest of the heavies haven't put up as great of a performance, therefore making the meds look not-terrible?
(Also yes it is kind of hard to tell because of the gosh-darn Emil)
hearty steeple
All these points were discussed already and more@sudden path btw the last part isn't directed towards you
Discussions is not repeatedly echoing the same thing. Someone asked about the 183 and ribble answered why it won't be buffed. End of story.
winged barn
@dense walrus the heavies are doing on average about 2-300 more damage (ignoring emil 1)
And also, the heavies are the ones on the direct recieving end of the emil spam. The meds still just farm from a safe distance, while the heavies actually have to brawl it.
If there was only 1 or 2 emils a match, then I would doubt this effect, but when it is common to have 4...
sudden path
@dense walrus my guess is that because the of how the emil 1 is making every other tank look worse, it brings the other heavy winrate down to med level
sharp nacelle
hullo
subtle tartan
Sub
dense walrus
@winged barn yes, but just looking at the winrate bars you would think all is fair and balanced. When in fact the meds have been outperformed for months, maybe going back as far as 6.2.
I would argue that 99% of meds don't have the pen to have a chance against the Emil, and unless you're playing something really fast, you're either just camping or trying to hold a ridgeline against a hulldown Emil. No idea what the heavy perspective is like, but I imagine with bigger alpha, more armor, better pen, more HP, and flatter terrain on your side, that the Emil wouldn't be as much of a problem.
austere citrus
Just nerf Emil 1 side armor, maybe reduce a bit of speed and that's about it. Just don't make it a VK 100.01 speed
steel apex
@sudden path - and a lot of TD's 'camp' - however, again that seems to be more of a discussuon on whether the FV183 should or should not be in the game - and not about balance - what is the purpose of this Channel. Logically that could lead to a discussion as to why have TD's at all; followed by why have Heavies - and eventually why doesn't WOT Blitz just reduce itself to a mindless point and shoot game?
At the moment - WOTBlitz is suppoiosed to have various types of tanks, which have varied playstayles - and requires a bit more thought that just point or shoot.
@hearty steeple - for your information a reply to @lusty silo about balance is part of a discussion about balance. You just repeatedly saying that people shouldn't talk about a ceratin subject is not a discussion abouyt balance - but is simply trolling. Now that's actually against the forum rules.
If you have something constructive to say about the balance of the FV183 then fine - say so - but merely suggesting people can't discuss the balance of a particualr tank that is in game - whether you like it or not - is frankly outrageous.
sinful leaf
Bruh...
drowsy plaza
@steel apex let it go. If you want me to give you the whole 183 issue rehash, we can do it in PM and not waste space here.
lunar niche
A lot of tds don't hit for 900/1300 in one shot. A camping Grille or Foch doesn't have the same fear factor as a camping 183, not even Jageru can match that.
sudden path
Just watch bushkas videos on the death star and he will tell you exactly why the 183 needed to he nerfed.
steel apex
@drowsy plaza - as I've just said - this channel is about balance- and I was responding to a post about that. What shoud be happening is a Moderator should be moderating posts so the discussion remains polite and on focus. I'm aware of your view that the FV183 shoud be removed from the game - and you are entitled to hold that view - but that's not a discussion about balance.
@lunar niche a JP does average 800 with AP a FV183 does 930 - however the JP has a higher DPM and much better armour. The fact of thar matter is that if the FV183 was so much better than anythng else - its WR would be top - instead its significantly worse. So @sudden path I have watched Bushka's video - and maybe at the time it was OP and needed a nerf. But looking at WG's own stats - it is now way behind the other TD's. That indcates that the nerf was too much - and it now needs to be rebalanced.
@austere citrus @distant river - yes, but even with that - its performace is way behgind the other Tier 10 TD's. A possible minor tweak may lift it up so that it can reatin its 1,300 HESH, not be OP, but not be UP either.
austere citrus
tbh, its not the 930 alpha, its the 1300 HESH shells with 200mm++ pen
distant river
@steel apex Easy answer to why the 183 deserves to be awful:
- 183 is made for camping and actively encourages the player in the 183 to camp
- This them makes the reds fearful of pushing and so they camp
- This then makes any push by the greens a bit suicidal, and so they camp
- Stagnant gameplay that's painful and boring for everyone
No other TD does point 1. as well as the 183 because it has over double the alpha of a standard TD. This is what makes it such a problem.
Solution to these problems are to make the 183 so bad it is not spammed and cannot have much of an effect when it is camping to try and encourage people to push.
As long as it has 1300 alpha it should never get buffed.
Remove this issue, and then it can be buffed to be a functional tank, but not before.
But anyway as rexy has said and as most people will agree the 183 is fine how it is now, it's a pain but a minor pain now.
drowsy plaza
@steel apex while I enjoy you telling me how to do my job, the point I made above is wasting hours on the 183 here detracts from everyone else’s enjoyment of this channel. I’m quite willing to explain the 183 on PM, but I’d ask you to drop it until you have something new to add here. There are a lot of less cut and dried balance issues to be discussed here.
unique scaffold
Fishy thing looking through his messages he only has 2 pages of messages and it’s all about the 183 and only in the balance channel
flat bane
183 is one tank that can't really be balanced due to the alpha. Keep in mind one teammate is worth 15% of your team and a 183 has the potential to remove 50-100% of that tanks HP.
steel apex
@drowsy plaza - well its nice you apprecaite it. But the discussion is about balance; this is a channel about balance - so it seems rather odd to me that you now suggset that people should PM each other to discuss the balance of certain tanks. Somehow I don't think that was WG intention when they set up a channel to discuss the balance of tanks - I think they wanted the discussion about the balance done on this Channel - and to ensue that it remained focussed and polite they appointed Moderators.
So thanks for you kind offer of a PM, but I'd prefer to keep our discussion to the way that I believe WG intended.
@flat bane - I'm sorry, I have to disagree - you can always balance things - one tank may take more time and be more difficult - but you can still do it.
Whilst I apprecaite that the FV183 can do a large 1-shot damage with HESH; HESH itself is balanced by being so problematic. Plus the FV183 doesn't have any high-pen HEAT.
Frankly you can look at other tanks that can 1-shot their Tiers, for example the T49 is highly mobile and can 1-shot, or virtually I shot, a FV301. You couold go down a list of tanks and complain they should be removed - but eventualy you'd end up with 1 generic tank and a rather mind numbing point and shoot game.
unique scaffold
Remove this issue, and then it can be buffed to be a functional tank, but not before.
What if I told you about situational awareness, Map knowlegde and memorizing where you spotted your enemy last time before it went stealthy again?
If it was spotted once, its easy to outmaneuver and push; Its easy to force it to shoot and have a 20sec timeframe to push and overwhelm the red front; Its easy to just have the typical td camping spots of each map in mind and avoid these. You aint a machine that is bound to drive one direction and only forward - You can adapt to a situation and make changes to your tactic. A Jageroo is much more scary - a 183 shoots a med down to a oneshot, a Jageroo to a two shot, the difference is marginal and with the way better accuracy, a Jageroo is much more reliable actually draining your HP than the 183 that might miss you or do just 450dmg because his HESH didnt penetrate. That being said, the bigger issue are the swedish heavys - while the Emils overperform, the Kranvagen doesn't imo. The dpm is worse than a Tier 7 and it needs a rebalancement(not a buff but rebalancement) Same goes for the Vickers CR which freaks me out that its not being nerfed for the last 2 Updates
flat bane
@steel apex unfortunately not, not everything can be balanced without doing a complete overhaul. 183 is not a exception to this. I personally don't have any problems with 183's as I almost never get hit by them, but I can see how mind-less and mind numbing gameplay can get for inexperienced players at tier 9-10 because they don't want to get hit by a big scary gun.
I also wouldn't compare a T-49 to the 183 due to the massive amounts of differences that I hope I shouldn't need to lable.
rare sleet
183 is meme tank tho, big gun everything else sucks lmao its funny end of discussion, No one actually plays the 183 seriously, its for laughs
gleaming apexBOT
KAS_118#4517 has been warned.
sinful leaf
What pushes you to believe that the FV215b(183), a unique tank requiring a "unique" approach to playing it needs a buff? Do you know how much 1300 alpha is? If the alpha was nerfed on the premium ammo, I'd gladly give consideration to a small buff, but as is no. Personally, I don't have massive issues dealing with 183s on the battlefield but I don't want a tank with such a powerful gun to get a buff without the premium ammo in some way, being nerfed.
Imagine a frontlining 183 with heavy armor, that seems very balanced. Not entirely a bad idea, if done right though.
austere citrus
just remove the 200mm HESH, keep the super cheap HESH. and buff the armor to similar to FV215B so it's a FV215B with a 183mm gun. It will still be slow and stuff but it now can at least frontline reliably instead of having people camp in the back. People camp in the back because they have no armor.
karmic portal
The fv183 with the 215b armor 😂😂😂
You just went from small buff to making it crazy ridiculously op
polar stag
We can balance it by giving 100 hp
unique scaffold
I may wanna add to my previous statement that I do love driving the 183, even now. But that is because it can pull off these random bullpoop shots that deal 1200dmg. But that is the rare case. usually you miss by a pixel, you hit the ground after 30m for no apparent reason or some external module like tracks, periscope, gun or some sort of spaced armor reduces your potential moment of the day to a 200-500dmg roll. By then your dpm is so significantly reduced to "useless teammate" that it would be more helpful to yolo into the red reticles to give your teammates some breathing room to reposition. Kranvagen btw is a similar approach - the turret armor is the only strength of that tank. It is slow as a 183, it turns as slow as a 183, the accuracy is similar if you aint giving it enough time to aim after firing your first shell and well the dpm is worse than any tier tier 7 tank. Imo the Kranvagen deserves the chinese accuracy of 122mm guns - very fast aim with relatively good precision. The Emils should get on par bad DPm like the Kranvagen, obv. for their tier respectively - so the Tier 8 should not have better dpm than any tier 5 and the Emil II not better than any tier 6. Vickers Cr needs an armor decrese on the turret/gunshield and increase in reload time and aimtime - its abused as a fast paced, hulldown sniper which is not a role a light tank should ever have - the accuracy and pen with that high dpm and absurd trollish turret makes it more viable than most tier 9 meds.
final warren
Is the kranvagen HE vulnerable? If it is then I’d say the turret is balanced.
On a side note, if people just used AP on the 183 it might actually scare me
austere citrus
Yes it's very HE vulnerable. Even Tier 9 TDs can do like 400 damage to your turret dead on.
remote oriole
I come back to this chat to see the chart in #devs-answers . Is it April yet?
dense walrus
welcome back to the world of never-ending balance
sudden granite
Cmon bois the 183 is fun, it’s the worst tX but still fun to double up. No need to be removed. Remove atgms xdddddd
remote oriole
@dense walrus thank you, though I don’t think that I’ll stay for long. I’m too much out of touch with the game now, as more important things demand my attention. I only really wrote because of how ridiculous the charts look
dense walrus
Best of luck with the important stuff then.
native bloom
Buff vk 45.02 A Armor
neon mirage
Buff 183 camo, because it have no ammor,no speed,no reverse speed,no accurate,no fully turn turret,to huge, no gun depression
unique scaffold
I feel like the camo nerf was not needed, if anything all i want is the camo back.
frosty oriole
bruh if u gave the 183 armor then whats the point of the jgpze100
neon mirage
@unique scaffold I strongly agree, because you can get spotted even u are across the whole map.
raw oar
I am wondering if we have ever seen a tank as ill-balanced as the Emil 1. It will be nerf, sure, but how could it be released this way ?
hardy hazel
I present to you, Vickers CR
nimble zodiac
I think Vickers CR is overcooked and only the Emil I is that broken, I think the other two is just the "new tank pro frenzy" that happens each new line release
wise dirge
Idk, the Emil 1 seems fine to me
tame fox
Nothing to see here....
drowsy plaza
It just needs the sides nerfed and a longer interclip.
hardy hazel
The problem with the vickers is the turret and the mantlet, i think the solution to it is to reduce the turrets thickness to 100mm and make the gun mantlet like 200mm with out armor behind so it will still be usefull to stop some shells and the turret will be easy to pen aside from the gun mantlet
Also, it wont hurt the tank that bad if tier 10 gets its frontal hull armor to crs level
drowsy plaza
With the Emil I. It can stand a deliver way to well even in a tier 9 game, then duck out on reload if needed.
nimble zodiac
It'll still have the largest reliable alpha in the game though, and not to mention it even has a turret at all as a TD
karmic portal
Nah if it had hesh nerfed i think they could give it a tiny buff, maybe 1100 and keep the cheap hesh the same and give the tank either a tad better aim time or dispersion or camo
dense yoke
If y'all really want a alpha nerf on 183, nerf alpha hesh to 1200
that bout to be satisfying to yall
unique scaffold
Half of the time hesh never works.
sinful leaf
I don't think buffing it with a nerf would be a good idea, it's probably better to leave it as is. Reason being that it may in one way or another take away from the playstyle of FV215b(183), assuming you aren't just camping the whole time.
hardy hazel
Is the fact that it will get more than it lose, if you want to nerf it and buff it at the same time give it HEAT instead of HESH as prammo and then you can buff it all you want
dense yoke
1300 (dam) heat 👀
dang, i would love to see that. Too bad British tanks and HESH is like humans without flesh
hardy hazel
You have +100mm on normal HE and its name is "HESH" too so, i see no problem there
And thats what is holding it back when we talk about buffing it @nimble zodiac
nimble zodiac
Yeah but I like 242mm of pen (CS) for my 1300 damage
;)
Yeah the accuracy often serves me well Ima be honest
lucid plover
I wonder..what if they just nerfed the accuracy by a big margin? Force the 183 to have to be aggressive in order to actually be effective, might help fix the camping 183 issue.
wise dirge
The 183 is such a horrible tank
unique scaffold
the accuracy is already so bad, nerfing it any more would make it unplayable. your only option in the 183 is to play backline because you have no armor or camo
sinful leaf
There isn't any actual good way to buff it, because it would make something too strong on the tank or take away from its current play style... If it even has one that is unique. Now there is a way to buff it so it's far more playable while being balanced, but it would also go along with a nerf that would likely for most players, defeat the whole purpose as to why they got the tank.
hardy hazel
i mean, only +100mm HE pen can do a lot of thing it works for other tanks, i dont see why it wont work for 183, also, if it has HEAT you can buff everything else because 100mm pen is not 200mm that can take more than 50% of your hp
karmic portal
How about they make the cheap hesh have like 150mm pen and give it heat
verbal thistle
How about keeping the tank as it is without touching the gun
hardy hazel
How about they make the cheap hesh have like 150mm pen and give it heat
@karmic portal its an option, as i said, give it HEAT and everything else is up to wg and what they think it should be
austere citrus
Nerf sides of Emil 1 and intraclip reload to 3.5 seconds?
vivid roost
his not need nerf intraclip reload just side armor ...
cinder gyro
Emil 1 is a compeatly balanced tank(cant wait for emil 1951 the premium variation)(tank is soo stupidly strog it has everything(great power to weight compared to ammount of armour an autoloader, hull and side armour and in a spam of a few seconds speed, 10 degrees of gun depresion and a HP of a heavy)
rare sleet
I frontline in my 183 all the time, it doesn't need armor or speed or all that rubbish the brutal HESH makes the tank strong in its own right
nimble zodiac
I go everywhere in the 183, it just depends on map and team comp. The accuracy is actually scary once you aim in
minor minnow
Given the size of the gun its surprisinglyaccurate
austere citrus
I want a British Heavy tank with 152mm+ Gun. Like imagine an FV215B with a 152mm.
jagged crescent
I'm wondering when they're gonna nerf the cr
muted rampart
@jagged crescent We don t know
drowsy idol
well we would need way bigger maps
versed tide
I think they will need cr once it becomes more popular as it isn’t a terribly common tank despite is being a broken tank
plucky pumice
Nerf the cruiser please, sick of seeing ppl spam it in ratings when tier8 mm is already unplayable bc of emils, smashers and annihilators
drowsy idol
t29
ruby monolith
Can we get a fat F for the bat chat that is about to be outclassed AGAIN once the TVP is added
hardy hazel
Tvp is not going to be added next update, and there is a lot of time to buff bat chat
thick rover
😎
frosty oriole
stop playing the fv215b 183 and go play the jageroo ;)
nimble zodiac
183 more fun
austere citrus
Give Tier X BCT 4x350, Tier IX BCT 4x310, Tier VIII BCT 4x225.
orchid grove
Yes. 4 shell gang
flat bane
1400 clip potential for BC.....
latent snow
BC isn’t even bad, 930 damage every 13 seconds
meager spruce
Correction. 930 dmg every 19 seconds (and that is if you pen every single shot with standard) . But I digress. BC is pretty bad not bcz the tank itself but because everything else outclasses it.
Want a tank with great mobility and light camo: Take the vickers. Want to take a light that can do wonky stuff? Grab a sheridan and spam the missiles. Want a very mobile tank with high damage output, grab a Leopard 1. Want smaller, faster autoloader? Grab a progetto, which has higher alpa, less of a chance to get HE-ed and is way more flexible with the autoreloader
last shadow
Wouldn't mind the BC buff
I really enjoy that tank
austere citrus
@flat bane Tank isn't even scary. It legit has lowest tier X alpha, bad pen, and is getting destroyed by every other tank. Second you would have to sit there for 9 seconds in the open to unleash that clip potential. It would actually be a viable tank since the armor is bad and the pen is bad. @latent snow The reload is 13 seconds + 6 seconds intraclip reload.
latent snow
Every 19 seconds? We are talking about the teir 10 right?
meager spruce
@latent snow yes. 13.6 sec reload and 2 intraclips for 3 seconds. In total 19.6. So if we round it up it isn't 19 its 20 second.
flat bane
@austere citrus yeah, I just mentioned the max potential; would like to see that ngl.
austere citrus
That’s around 6.5 for 310 alpha which the leopard does 350 in 5.7 seconds and better penetration or the t62a which does 310 in even less. If it was 4x350, 4x310, and 4x225. Bat chat line would be way more appealing. Bat chat line is just bad(IMO). No “scary factor” when all the tank is shooting are low alpha shots at heavy tanks with 2.5k - 3k HP heavy tanks. Most won’t even pen since the penetration is so bad. @verbal thistle 4x350 is better. 40 alpha isn’t enough to counter the lack of everything else.
unique scaffold
This is also standing alone without factoring in batchats lack of gun depression and mediocre accuracy
verbal thistle
Just give Bat chat 350 alpha with 3 shells and it will just be fine
noble quail
M48 needs buff
full token
RibbleStripe hinted at a buff
neon mirage
183 need camo,or accurate,buff either of them would balance it
unique scaffold
No
neon mirage
@unique scaffold If u know that 183 doesn't have ammor,speed , reverse, accurate, reload,gun depression,camo
latent snow
Batchat is the smallest and fastest tank in tier 10, and has the potential to do 930 damage in a single clip... why are we comparing it to tanks like a progetto which has a completely different role?
unique scaffold
Because progetto somewhat poses a much bigger threat than the batchat does and vickers light is still a smaller profile than the bc 25
full token
WG is happy with where it’s at @neon mirage
fallow eagle
They need to nerf emil 1
It looks like it performs much better compared to the t8 heavies
full token
They are going to
coarse harness
I'd rather see an intrclip buff on the BC
That way fighting against meds you could trade 3 shots for just 1 in return most of the time
mossy wraith
Correction. 930 dmg every 19 seconds (and that is if you pen every single shot with standard) . But I digress. BC is pretty bad not bcz the tank itself but because everything else outclasses it.
Want a tank with great mobility and light camo: Take the vickers. Want to take a light that can do wonky stuff? Grab a sheridan and spam the missiles. Want a very mobile tank with high damage output, grab a Leopard 1. Want smaller, faster autoloader? Grab a progetto, which has higher alpa, less of a chance to get HE-ed and is way more flexible with the autoreloader
@meager spruce progetto is not smaller
meager spruce
@mossy wraith its way smaller than an amx50b or T57 is what I meant
soft yacht
Kranvagn needs a buff on dpm.
muted rampart
@soft yacht kranvagn is balanced
rapid citrus
@coarse harness. No, the batchat is supposed to take a long time to dump big damage, like on wotpc, its 3 sec intra is only slightly more than the 2.73 sec intra on pc. What it needs is a much deadlier clip
fallow eagle
Yea i don't feel the "assassin "aspect of the tank in battle lol
Even in leo 1,batchat doesn't feel very scary
soft yacht
You are saying that kranvagn is balanced because it haves good stats. But that tank haves that stats because all pro players are playing with it now. After 3-4 months you will see that how trash dpm it haves got
muted rampart
No. Im not saying it because it have Good stats. I say it s balanced, because it s balanced. Having Good dpm with impenetrable turret will just break the game at t10
dense yoke
@soft yacht kranvagn is balanced
@muted rampart facts
undone latch
just want an opinion, what about making the IS-3 Defender great again
muted rampart
@undone latch it s balanced. we don t want it to be broken again
fiery dagger
Both Kran and Is-3D is perfectly fine.
undone latch
@undone latch it s balanced. we don t want it to be broken again
@muted rampart maybe a broken
muted rampart
no. we don t need another broken and brainless t8 tank
undone latch
is smasher a t8? maybe def can be a antismasher
spark gorge
smasher is a tier 7. we don’t need a tank stronger than the smasher to counter it, we just need a smasher nerf
meager spruce
Anni pretty much rivals Smasher
unique scaffold
I'd say it's better.
fiery dagger
It's better in my opinion too.
sudden path
I would say worse because the anni doesnt have the heat pen, or he splash/pen. The anni also suffers from having to get multiple shots out to do its damage, while the smasher can get all the damage out in 1 shell
unique scaffold
Smasher seems more user friendly but the Anni offers far more devastation in the hands of a good player.
winged barn
Until it is down tier, then smasher is just better
noble quail
Yeah, the Annhilator rn is kind of on par with the smaher, or maybe even better
unique scaffold
Nerf annihilator
sudden granite
Nerf both of em bruh
@scarlet fjord to be continued meme plays
scarlet fjord
Wargaming
Please dont do what i think your gonna do
Which is not nerfing AMX M4 54 and selling it for 30k gold on Christmas event in its current state
winged barn
Only 30k? You should rethink that cost a bit buddy
minor minnow
It’s gonna be sold for hundreds of dollars if it isn’t touched come Christmas
coarse harness
They will nerf the armor in 7.4 from obviously completely broken to just simply OP
minor minnow
They’ll make it average after people buy it like the VK90
mental pasture
WG being anti-costumer once again isn't something new
Hur dur, let's make an op tank for sell it costing as like Battlefiled 5, lol. 50 dollars for a tank is tottaly fair. Let's increase prices for third world countries, lmao.
mossy wraith
@mossy wraith its way smaller than an amx50b or T57 is what I meant
@meager spruce yea, but not smaller than BC
wise iron
I hate the WZ-113G-FT, this tank is a nightmare. No armor, huge size, poor mobility, the gun has high penetration but inaccurate, DPM is one of the worst. This tank is good for nothing.
austere citrus
The tank should be buffed on the armor. The cheeks should go from 80mm to 120mm. Frontal armor should go from 230mm to 250mm. Lower plate should go from 135mm to 180mm. Sides should be buffed from 80mm to 100mm. Upper glacis should go from 60mm to 120mm.
nocturne mauve
Even a side buff should be good, or the front shoulders
nimble zodiac
Useless buffing the lower plate unless people actually plan to bait shots with a frontscrape in a turretless TD
muted rampart
@nimble zodiac well, i do it quite often so it s usefull. if i can t side scrape i often front scrape. no matter is it a turretless td or not
orchid grove
113G FT is tricky, because if you buff the armor, too much, then it just becomes a faster T110E3. But if the armor is too weak, then it's just a crappy 268
plucky pumice
@austere citrus Are you really suggesting this needs 12 insane degrees of gun depression if the upper glacias was to be nerfed???? You said yourself having a near 80% winrate so you tell me
minor minnow
I hate the WZ-113G-FT, this tank is a nightmare. No armor, huge size, poor mobility, the gun has high penetration but inaccurate, DPM is one of the worst. This tank is good for nothing.
@wise iron that’s why you either A: Get the 268 or B: use the consumables
austere citrus
@plucky pumice Most of my wins are brawling. The tank is super good at brawling. It's never 100% a victory on pure gun depression. @orchid grove Pretty sure WZ 113G-FT has worse gun than 268 and E3. Buffing armor would make it nice.
orchid grove
@austere citrus Nah, it has more DPM, and more accuracy than an E3
austere citrus
Oh... I see... well then maybe just a buff to the upper glacis from 60mm to 120mm and a buff of the cheeks from 80mm to 120mm. This is just a minor armor buff so let's see how the tanks perform then.
muted rampart
i think Ho Ri T1 should get more hit points. the tank is huge and not even that fast. armor is trollish but not good. 1100 hit points is a liitle bit to less imo for a tank that is penetrated by nearly everything and has size of vk 100
austere citrus
I agree. They should give it 1300. Chi To SPG has 1050 and the tier 8 has 1100. Like 50 HP for an entire tier?
coarse harness
HP under 1200 in T8 is just crap
spring magnet
HP under 1200 in T8 is just crap
@coarse harness laughs in ISU
rare sleet
Jgpze100 is the size of a e100 and has less hitpoints than tier 9 heavies
austere citrus
It's a TD. I think the jgpze100 should get a speed buff though.
nimble zodiac
Ah, interesting, T-2020 performed better than the IS-3, KV-4, and KV-5
coarse harness
@coarse harness laughs in ISU
I guess you don't laugh when you get triple or even double tapped
mental pasture
@austere citrus it may be a a TD, but it's also a 4 tons heavies E100, fool
dense yoke
Frontline tds needs hp buffs
nimble zodiac
Begins classifying every TD possible a a frontline TD
mental pasture
Jagdpanzer E100 is actually a second line TD, if you do frontline, then you do it by your risk @dense yoke
grizzled sleet
But that's where the big dmg is
drowsy plaza
You can bounce a slew well angled in the JPE
dense yoke
@mental pasture "Be sure to taste your words before you spit them out." - Unknown
mental pasture
So what?
Also, big alpha doesn't mean that you'll do well in frontline, that's why you don't go there with a 183 if you want to survive for more than a minute
dense yoke
and here i expected you to understand.
You preassumed what i meant in my message. I didn't SAY JGE100 is a frontline tank. infact i didn't even mention JGE100. I only said buff FRONT LINE TDS.
Such as, tortoise line (NOT FV183) and T95 (Mabye T28). But i chose not to mention, because i have mentioned it in the past.
mental pasture
Yep, on the past you've mentioned
grizzled sleet
@mental pasture 183 also doesn't have any armour which is why you don't Frontline with it. Jageroo on the other hand has plenty of armour. The alpha has nothing to do with it, it's just the fact that it has enough armour to play around with the Frontline
mental pasture
E5 have a plenty of frontal armor tho, that doesn't mean that you should do frontline with it
Same goes for other tanks with troll armor, it may be troll, but doesn't mean that you should risk it every moment
grizzled sleet
Lol wut I Frontline all the time with E5. I don't yolo out into the open no I just find the ridge closest to the enemy and vibe. There's a difference between maus pushing and Frontlining
mental pasture
There's a also difference between
- Supporting your enemies not far from the battlefield
- Fighting 30-70m away from your enemy, taking shots and using your armor all the time
round bluff
e5 can do that
mental pasture
E5 can do real frontline, but nothing guarantee that the E5 will survive
karmic portal
I lost iq reading that
neon mirage
@wise iron 183 way worse
karmic steeple
Nothing guarantees anything survives ._.
mental pasture
You got it, you got exactly what I meant
jagged crescent
An HP buff on the Jageroo would be nice tho
flat stag
WG shouldnt buff jgpz IV and charioteer with next update.. this tanks are great as they are. guns are great, mobility is decent, no one needs armour 😉 i love them how they are now, no buffs needed.
distant river
@flat stag It's only the stock gun on the charioteer that's getting a buff I think, and that's because it shares it with the AT line? I might be wrong but that's what I remember
muted rampart
@distant river you are right on This one
hardy hazel
I think is the way wg find to "nerf" heavys or atleast fight them
sour comet
Any buff to t28 I mean just looking at stats.
austere citrus
Just give T28 a new model since it was literally a T95 with one layer of less tracks so give it the same armor profile but worse side armor and stuff. And it will basically be a tier 8 T95 but with the 400 alpha gun instead.
crystal spoke
The sad part is its not even a change between the spg having its outer tracks or not the name change wasn't due to any design changes at all
versed tide
It’s sad how the heavy buff made tds not irrelevant by any means but some of them which had similar hp to heavies and just out dpm them are now just taking a more back seat role which just makes them not as fun
glossy relic
can we just buff the gun handling on the M48 patton
versed tide
M48 has been power crept sadly it needs speed or gun buff imo
sour comet
Gun is fine as it just need more speed like every tank coming to game more speed equal better tank.
sinful leaf
@sour comet the problem is that M48 is just a weaker American equivalent of STB-1. A speed buff wouldn't make it worth playing over that, which is why people are asking for an accuracy buff to make it unique at least.
austere citrus
Buff Upper plate of WZ-113G-FT from 100mm to 120mm and the cheeks from 80mm to 120mm.
drowsy plaza
M48 / T-62A. Anyone can (or at least should be able to) find several spots to buff the Fatton here
thick rover
Yeeet
austere citrus
Just give the Patton a minor turret buff+upper plate buff and it will be a hull down medium. 2nd. Give Foch 155 Stock Gun the 640/545/960 Alpha gun since it's a 155mm.
glossy relic
I think a minor turret buff but also some better gun handling. Not like STB-1 gun handling but just enough to give it that novelty factor
sour comet
Just make the turret almost impossible to be pen by heats rounds simple buff.
austere citrus
Then that's too OP.
versed tide
That would make kran irrelevant @sour comet
final warren
Anyone else feel like the fv301 needs a pen nerf?
minor minnow
Imo the T8 and 9 needs nerfs, at least to the armor they have
hardy hazel
Anyone else feel like the fv301 needs a pen nerf?
Take in consideration it uses the same gun as cent and caernavorn, and for those two its all they got
austere citrus
regular caernarvon should get a speed traverse buff and the conqueror should get a turret buff.
primal yacht
An Emil 1 should not be able to fully take out an SU-101 from the front with just one clip. I remember back when it was the SU-101’s turn to get a buff, and WOTs even recommended that it could brawl with heavies up front it’s 120mm front hull armor and Tier 10 gun. Those days have been gone for a long time. I’ve never understood why TDs have lower HP than their turreted counterparts either, like the SU-101, which was on a T-44 chassis. The real SU-101 was even noted for it’s strong superstructure in testing. It’s enough of a handicap to be turretless anyway.
minor plover
Well, Emil 1 is capable for nuking most TDs.
noble quail
Yeah the M48 needs a buff, it's powercreeped for a long while now.
Maybe an accuracy buff, frontal armour buff, and a turret cheek armour buff would make it good again
And it will not replace the T110E5 for reasons, like the E5 still has better armour. The Fatton will just be like a mini T110E5 that has more mobility.
austere citrus
Just make it an E5 replica with better speed. Basically a fast heavium. So it has more roles. Imagine a crossbreed between the current patton and e5. The new and improved patton would have heavy accuracy(decent, not amazing like t-62a), but have good turret armor and have a nice upper plate. the 9 degrees of gun depression will allow it to hull down and take shots like a heavy but be mobile like a medium. HEAT will of course still pen but it will be red on AP.
noble quail
The Fatton line really needs a buff, it's a well rounded line, but well rounded in what? 2017?
The tanks around it are getting buffed, and makes that line powercreeped.
I'm not an old player, but I think that's the case with that line
neon mirage
Gave 183 a buff ,l say this every day...
unique scaffold
Batchat too Needs a buff,he Is Power creeped nowadays
noble quail
And will be powercreeped more when WG relaces the TVP and doesn't do anything about it
dense yoke
If i would've guessed when tvp will release i would say in 7.6/7.5 and if i would've guessed it probs in 2021. That means we have plenty of times till bc gets buffed.
full token
muted rampart
I think all t8 tds need some hp changes, at least to meds level. Maybe except isu and rhm because Both of those tanks have 152mm guns and are meant to camp
thick rover
Is that 4 sep or 11 april@full token
full token
@thick rover 4th October November oops idk why I put October
@muted rampart Too much. I don’t think TDs should be capable of taking a lot of hits. Some of them already have the armor for that. Their guns should be good, not their ability to take hits
dense yoke
@thick rover It is 4th of NOV
jovial arch
Give Tier X BCT 4x350, Tier IX BCT 4x310, Tier VIII BCT 4x225.
@austere citrus You are mad!! HAHAHA
muted rampart
@full token yes. I agree but having 1100 hp at tier 8 is sometimes just 2 Hits and you are in garage. If its put on The isu or rhm that stays at The back? No problem, but when frontline tanks like T28, T28 prot or Ho Ri T1 gets that bad amount of hp it s really hard to do anything. I think those tanks should be able to last at least 3 122mm shots. I think 1300 base hp should be okay
mossy wraith
An Emil 1 should not be able to fully take out an SU-101 from the front with just one clip. I remember back when it was the SU-101’s turn to get a buff, and WOTs even recommended that it could brawl with heavies up front it’s 120mm front hull armor and Tier 10 gun. Those days have been gone for a long time. I’ve never understood why TDs have lower HP than their turreted counterparts either, like the SU-101, which was on a T-44 chassis. The real SU-101 was even noted for it’s strong superstructure in testing. It’s enough of a handicap to be turretless anyway.
@primal yacht dont forget smasher. Kv2
muted rampart
But kv 2 doesn t have armor, mobility, accuaracy and penetration. If emil also wouldn t, it wouldn t be a problem. The whole point of this problem is that emil has everything going for it
noble quail
M48 line desperately needs a buff
From the T20 to the M48
(maybe make the M46 stay the same, it's performance is decent)
unique scaffold
WOT will continue to create tanks to allow people to pay to win. Then buff said tanks and creat more for people to buy.....and pay to win.
unique scaffold
Buying a tank doesn't magically make you know how to play it @unique scaffold
tender nexus
I think we need the anhialator to be escalated by 1 tier
noble quail
Yes
verbal thistle
@unique scaffold are they planning to nerf British lights?
mental pasture
People that think the server administrators actually work for WG
LMAO
unique scaffold
Why the keys are not uploaded in my account?
muted rampart
@unique scaffold wrong channel, and nobody have them. WG always gives the loot few hours after the end of stream
potent kraken
Nerf emil 1
hexed fjord
fix sides of russian tanks
versed tide
The spaced armor is so troll
rare sleet
they are supposed to be troll thats the whole point of the russian sides on tanks like is3, is5, is8 and is7, oh and 252u and t22 med
winged barn
It's not the spaced armor that it troll, it's what hides behind it that eats your shell
candid steeple
WG revert the nerf to M5 you destroyed only fun thing about that tank. Give it back its turning speed. Not every tier III has to be a trash tank. And you killed it for HvZ fun game mode. Its flooded with stupid leos.
minor minnow
It’s still fast tho...
nimble zodiac
fix sides of russian tanks
How about don't shoot there and go lower where the plates are f l a t?
Yeah but I think the cheeks are going first if they load prammo
unique scaffold
They need to buff maus’s upper plate
austere citrus
Yes they do. Even Droodles agreed. The upper plate on the Maus gets penned by tons of other tanks.
karmic portal
Yes buff the maus. What genius
austere citrus
Droodles said make the upper plate of Maus like 1000mm so that no tank can pen it.
sinful leaf
If you don't bother to angle on Maus, then you should expect to be penetrated by American or Russian HEAT shells from heavies. 1000mm. Please tell me of any tank in this game that has armor that is impossible to penetrate outside of the mantlet. That would be an unnecessary buff, 1000mm is asking quite a bit. It's already impenetrable if you just angle, I don't see why you want to make the upper plate so you can just play braindead if you hide lower plate and perfectly angle turret.
unique scaffold
@sinful leaf bold of you to assume the general player base can hide their lower plate and angle the turret
sinful leaf
True that, but I don't see a point in making an armor plate immune to penetration and any caliber of HE splash, if you can just angle and bounce reliably.
muted rampart
I think droodles said a lot of really dumb things at this video. Why does he want to nerf t57? Idk. T49s gun at sheridan? 150 pen at 10? No thank you.
unique scaffold
Yeah I mean if you play a Maus in a pub game, you bounce the majority of shots, like no heavy deserves to be immune from HEAT shells, but most tier 10 heavies are pushing 370+ HEAT pen with Cali
Droodles says lots of dumb things
Only video I watch of his was “VK45vsE75”
He starts the video by saying
“I don’t like VK and have never played the E75”
He plays both tanks hopelessly, says things completely wrong about each tank and only does high damage due to him fighting tier 8’s
It was such a cringe video, especially when he’d then say things like “E75 is bad for sidescraping” and the “VK 45 has non existent side armour” ahhh yes 100mm means it’s non existent
austere citrus
i mean 100mm at tier 9 is kinda bad.
frosty oriole
tbh I find it pretty cringe how I can facehug a maus in a 215b and pen the upper plate with APCR
storm dome
Yeah I mean if you play a Maus in a pub game, you bounce the majority of shots, like no heavy deserves to be immune from HEAT shells, but most tier 10 heavies are pushing 370+ HEAT pen with Cali
Droodles says lots of dumb things
Only video I watch of his was “VK45vsE75”
He starts the video by saying
“I don’t like VK and have never played the E75”
He plays both tanks hopelessly, says things completely wrong about each tank and only does high damage due to him fighting tier 8’s
It was such a cringe video, especially when he’d then say things like “E75 is bad for sidescraping” and the “VK 45 has non existent side armour” ahhh yes 100mm means it’s non existent
@unique scaffold hey could you pls tell me what tanks use heat shells in blitz?
Cool! @nimble zodiac isn't there any heat users at tier 1 to 8?
nimble zodiac
Well the known big boys are Smasher, IS-4, and JgPz E100
@storm dome Tier 4s already are able to use HEAT shells, like the AMX 40, and tanks like Nightmare. KV-1 (derp) and many more use HEAT, also Smasher is tier 7
nocturne mauve
But smasher ain’t even that good
austere citrus
That's what I thought. When I first got Smasher, I was like this tank not OP. Then I played it more and more and yeah it's OP. I think Annihilator is better though.
unique scaffold
There’s lot that use HEAT
All meds at tier 10 use HEAT
Most heavies except (British tier 10 heavies, 50B, Maus and VK90)
E3, E4, Badger, 263, Ho-Ri dont use HEAT, all others do
austere citrus
Buff Conqueror Turret.
hardy hazel
I kind of agree about a buff to the upper plate of maus or atleast make td to have enough pen in its pramo to butter pretty much everything, not heavys
mental pasture
Even E5 use HEAT, and it have the same pen of IS-4 one
fiery dagger
Yes, sure, buff the already braindeadly overcooked Maus with god tier sidescraping ability and 3000 HP instead of learning and doing some research how to angle. Laughable.
muted rampart
Maus is okay. There is no problem with it. But i would definetly Trade something like 200-300 hp for better gun, because mauses gun completly sucks. I mean better penetration (maybe 255 on ap and 325 on gold) and 10.0 reload
hardy hazel
Then, IS-4 the god of tier 10 heavys, sure, no problem with that
austere citrus
Buff upper plate of Maus, Buff Conqueror Turret, Buff WZ-113G-FT
winged barn
Lol, bUfF tHe mAuS
nimble zodiac
Given Maus is the 4th top tank in winrate, prolly not
lunar niche
UFP on Maus is fine. Its the 80mm armour behind tracks that needs a buff. You can damage and track Maus when it angles the hull.
That 3k HP is the only thing going for it now tbh.
karmic steeple
Yes buff maus time :))))))
karmic portal
Give maus atgms and 50km/h top speed. And a 183mm gun and 800mm armor all around
versed tide
Buff kv5
winged barn
Maus is one of the last tanks that needs a buff.
Also, why is the 75mm in the hit model on inspector but not on blitzhangar?
jagged crescent
Considering how popular it is in Comp, I think the Maus armor is fine. The issue is that some heavies have stupid gold rounds and even then the Maus can still angle those away.
Droodles should not be an argument for why a tank needs a buff anyways.
flat bane
Imo, Droodles has suggested some weird buffs and nerfs.
nocturne mauve
Too many people go off of Youtuber’s opinions
hardy hazel
I just been thinking about it since i get to know is 4 heat pen 2 months ago
I mean for me its okay for it to get more upper frontal armor, its pretty much impossible to pen, and the weak spot at the turret checks is easy to pen even with some standar ammo, no need for others tanks aside tds to have its frontal upper plate crystal clear when load prammo
sacred hemlock
You sure you get extra coins? Cause I bought the 14 dollars one I didn’t get it
austere citrus
u get 2k coins, or should
torpid plinth
There’s lot that use HEAT
All meds at tier 10 use HEAT
Most heavies except (British tier 10 heavies, 50B, Maus and VK90)
E3, E4, Badger, 263, Ho-Ri dont use HEAT, all others do
@unique scaffold
FV 4202 doesn't use heat, well u always should be using the hesh gun cos the heat gun is absolute shite
austere citrus
FV 4202 should get a turret buff.
thick rover
I don't think it should get turret buff or it might become broken. I would opine that we have to accept that is isn't meant to follow the cent 1 and cent 7/1 in having a strong turret and being a hUlLdOwn med, it is a special tank that sacrifices turret armour for hull armour. I actually think it's ok now but if there is a buff maybe it goes to the gun handling...?
austere citrus
Just buff the turret, reduce the power to weight ratio and boom. So it has a long acceleration so it's quite slow but has fair armor. Basically a heavium.
coarse harness
I'd gladly see a gun handling buff instead
winged barn
Give it 5k HESH dpm
for balance purposes
spring magnet
Bruh it doesn't need anything except a nerf
zinc fossil
Anyone who believes the Annihilator needs a buff should never be allowed a future opinion on balance discussion
paper crow
So when is the T9 Vickers getting nerfed? Because i don't think i'm the only one that think it deserves a nerf
austere citrus
It won't get nerfed because the winrate is around 58% if I remember. Usually tanks above 60% get nerfed.
hardy hazel
Is not that hard, you buff something and nerf other thing, tbh i will trade 5° of gun depresion to have a better turret armor
Also, 4k dpm only when you pen all your shots and you are shooting all the time hesh.
@torpid plinth i dont think so, heat gun is better for me, i have a useful prammo to deal damage to heavy armored targets and enough HE pen in the normal HE to make it work afectively against a lot of tanks
torpid plinth
In my opinion he's is way better because I do not usually have to face the front of many Supreme heavies, and if I have to I will splash them so I don't mind
Plus he's will allow u to deal extra 100 damage, which u prefer rather than more on on heat
hardy hazel
Thats why i load like 20 HE shells or something like that, if i have the chance to deal more damage i will use them, if not, its because i cant pen with normal ammo so i use heat and i have garanteed damage or atleast more damage than a HE splash.
Also, 116mm pen on normal HE is enough to go thru most mediums sides, some heavys sides and most tanks rear leaving aside IS4, german heavys and some tds and even those have weak spots were you can pen if you know how to aim so, there is no excuse
potent kraken
Nerf emil 1
unique scaffold
FV4202 does get a turret buff
It’s called being put at tier 8
autumn zodiac
Don't make me think about FV4202 P
hardy hazel
FV4202 does get a turret buff
It’s called being put at tier 8
@unique scaffold its called Vickers Light actually
No no, i think i misunderstand what you said, what i was trying to say is that vickers is what will happen if 4202 gets its turret buffed in the wrong way
unique scaffold
Wut...
How in anyway does the Vickers light being in the game make the FV4202 better
winged barn
Vickers is food for the 4202
lucid jetty
It seems they forgot to buff the DPM on su101's top gun in the upcoming 7.4.
autumn zodiac
If it's DPM you want use the D-54s, not the M62
flat bane
In my own subjective opinion; I feel WG should provide the original 640 alpha stats on the stock non-autoloading gun of the Foch 155. There would be much more of a competition between the two guns and also provide an alternative play-style.
lucid jetty
If it's DPM you want use the D-54s, not the M62
@autumn zodiac Does not mean the DPM of the top gun is irrelevant. In fact it is exactly the reason why su101 appears unbalanced on the graph.
autumn zodiac
SU-101 is not that different from WZ-120-FT people just can't manage with it for some reason
spring magnet
I love the SU-101, great tank, gun depression is a little tricky though
coarse sinew
Wz-120-1ft>su-101
flat bane
Yeah replace the Foch 155 with the SU-101 instead
lucid jetty
SU-101 is not that different from WZ-120-FT people just can't manage with it for some reason
@autumn zodiac Simple. Just buff its DPM then you will see people manage with it. Right now constantly reloading for one minute you will only do 2.4k damage. Considering its low hp it is even harder for today's meta. It also lacks the ability to put a second shot in close combat situation. IMO 8.4-8.8 sec is a proper value for its 420 alpha. I would not recommend a 460 alpha since it makes the playstyle not much different than Skorpion and su130pm.
winged barn
@autumn zodiac the gun depression is only a slight difference between the wz120ft and su122
austere citrus
SU-101 should just get an armor buff and DPM buff and Dispersion buff. Then it will be playable. PC has a 120mm upper plate while blitz is 90mm. The low alpha gun(for a tier 8 TD) and HP should be compensated by a nice armor profile and gun.
turbid smelt
it is already playable
it doesn't need armour buff
gun handling would be more than enough
spring magnet
SU-101 should just get an armor buff and DPM buff and Dispersion buff. Then it will be playable. PC has a 120mm upper plate while blitz is 90mm. The low alpha gun(for a tier 8 TD) and HP should be compensated by a nice armor profile and gun.
@austere citrus The SU-101 is totally playable right now, I've got a 60% winrate in it and the only thing that I struggle with is the gun depression because it's basically nothing, but even that is not horrible
austere citrus
Like honestly, just give it the PC profile and it will be more useful and more playable. The gun depression is 4 degrees and the tank has like no HP. The gun has good penetration but not the best accuracy or DPM so giving it the 120mm upper plate from 90mm would make the tank more fun and more meta.
lucid jetty
@spring magnet @turbid smelt It is not about playability. The most underpowered tanks can also be playable. A single player can get it to 70% wr does not mean the tank is overpowered.
spring magnet
@spring magnet @turbid smelt It is not about playability. The most underpowered tanks can also be playable. A single player can get it to 70% wr does not mean the tank is overpowered.
@lucid jetty true, but still, once you get the hang of it, it isn't too hard to master
rare sleet
is7 needs a ammo rack hitpoint buff just some more would be nice, give it 240 hitpoints for the ammo rack like is4 instead of 210
lucid jetty
@lucid jetty true, but still, once you get the hang of it, it isn't too hard to master
@spring magnet Guess what, I can play it like a derp and get decent games. I can also play it as an obj263 and get decent games. But the point is that we need to ask wg what they think the play style of this tank is. IMO in tier 8 it is not for obj263 style as it meant to be. So a buff is needed.
spring magnet
@spring magnet Guess what, I can play it like a derp and get decent games. I can also play it as an obj263 and get decent games. But the point is that we need to ask wg what they think the play style of this tank is. IMO in tier 8 it is not for obj263 style as it meant to be. So a buff is needed.
@lucid jetty true true, I wouldn't mind a buff to the tank, but I think that it is decent right now
versed tide
Just give it a armor buff and gun handling buff
austere citrus
Yes, just buff dispersion and give it 120mm upper plate and 150mm on the upper superstructure(PC armor specs).
karmic portal
Man the jagtiger is awesome. Top tier it’s god. Just frontline and bully everyone. If you can convince your heavys to go with you you can just push and focus fire the entire enemy heavys and kill them so fast
noble quail
M48 line needs buff
turbid smelt
@lucid jetty try playing t28 proto, you would quickly realize su 101 is just an ok tank with nothing special going for it
9 is dpm king of blitz...
lucid jetty
@lucid jetty try playing t28 proto, you would quickly realize su 101 is just an ok tank with nothing special going for it
@turbid smelt It is not an ok tank compare to t28 prot can 2 for 1 outtrades you. In fact most tanks can 2-1 outtrades su101. That's why 263 style does not work on su101. We balance a tank to its stats. Right now it shows much underpowered. Looking at the line tier 7 9 10 all has decent dpm except this one. So I conclude it is forgotten.
turbid smelt
so let me guess
you play these tds yoloing infront of enemies and attempting to out dpm them?
do you even know what are strong suits of this tank or this tank line in general?
jagged crescent
Yoloing in general doesn't work
lucid jetty
so let me guess
you play these tds yoloing infront of enemies and attempting to out dpm them?
@turbid smelt It is not about how I play it or how good I am with it. It is about stats and wg's expectation on this tank. If wg is fine with this, I am fine with it.
turbid smelt
@lucid jetty if wg weren't fine with it
then why would they leave it the way it came to blitz 4 years ago
they even changed su 122 54 when it wasn't performing, this line wasn't forgotten
stronger variant of this tank exist because players don't buy mediocre tanks for real moneh
that tank is one of their money maker ones
su101 is balanced - _-
that is true with any tank you would take to 1v1 against an outrageously balanced piece of garbage (wz 120 1 ft)
just a reminder wz 1201ft isn't balanced in anyway
lucid jetty
That means it is forgotten. And they want to move players to those op ones. Because there is no tier 9 op ones so far. But tier 8 you have WZ1201GFT where you want the players to play. So if there is no WZ1201GFT basically I think they will make su101 a balanced one. su101 is not a balanced one because if you were in su101 vs yourself in wz1201G you got rekt every single time. Since they wont nerf wz1201G money maker. It is our best "hope" that they buff the su101.
turbid smelt
that won't happen until they make another money making tank that would replace wz 120 1 ft, rebalance every tier 8 so this new tank would be meta
there is absolute no reason to buff su 101
it was never knife fighting yolo tank of justice
its strong suits are penetration, mobility and camo rating
try working with those in mind, anyone would quickly realize strong suits aren't armour, dpm or other gun stats, so mindlessly rushing like a headless chicken is not going to work on this tank or any tank in this line
lucid jetty
that won't happen until they make another money making tank that would replace wz 120 1 ft, rebalance every tier 8 so this new tank would be meta
there is absolute no reason to buff su 101
it was never knife fighting yolo tank of justice
its strong suits are penetration, mobility and camo rating
try working with those in mind, anyone would quickly realize strong suits aren't armour, dpm or other gun stats, so mindlessly rushing like a headless chicken is not going to work on this tank or any tank in this line
@turbid smelt It is always good to utilize the characteristics but stats told us even so it gets rekt easily. So instead, buy your tier 8 premiums and don't give a fk about the balance. This is wg's expectation.
versed tide
I don’t think 120 ft is broken rather then very good as most t8 can pen it on flat ground it just has a nice gun and mobility but the armor does work don’t get me wrong but not OP imo
noble quail
Yeah, I think it's not OP
turbid smelt
oh wow there are players who don't yell op at everything
wat
am I even on correct time line?
nimble zodiac
I never thought WZ was OP though ._.
verbal thistle
Frontally Impenetrable tanks are now less of nuisance because we know how to deal with it
winged barn
Nah, it now just has a pathetic hp pool compared to the heavies, so heavies just squash it like a bug and then carry on.
distant river
^^ The WZ used to be a second line support tank that could happily brawl with whoever got in front of it without losing too much hp. Now it simply can't do that. I ages mine for the first time in ages a few days ago and you can't even try and brawl mid hp heavies when you are full because they still have such a hp advantage. It's now just a second line support tank, and not even a great one when you have things like the JPII competing with it.
analog canyon
Aniahlator (prob spelled that wrong) needs its srmor nerfed or re.oved tigers cant even pen it and they habe highest pentration of any tank
tulip latch
nobody knows
exotic halo
as you created super engine boost, create super adrenaline and give it to the E 25
muted rampart
I think TVP will be nice tank. It will probably have 4 shells in clip do it will be different than BC 25 T (on stream there were short video with this tank and TVP was destroying 4 tanks in the short period of time) after seeing this clip I think it will have 2-2.5s intraclip. So if it will have 310 alpha it will do 1240 clip dmg and if they gave it 350 alpha it will do 1400 dmg per clip which is really impressive. The tank is still tested so they may change it a lot, but still i don t think they will take out a shell from clip, because this 4 shell clip is probably the main thing that is suposed to make this tank different than other t10 tanks
dense yoke
I have my doubt they will give tvp 4 shell clip with 350 alpha damage
muted rampart
@dense yoke me2. I think it s more likely they will give it 4x310
unique scaffold
short question, can we remove smasher from game and give a little compensation for those who owns it?
latent snow
That probably won’t happen
dreamy gate
Do I really had to exchange or this key is still funtional at what season?
gray adder
You need a box. You get one for 2 kills or more in a match
wicked pine
They will disappear from your account after autumn @dreamy gate
green whale
unique scaffold
Hmm do I exchange for example 30 keys and get 4.5mil credits or do I use them to open boxes
autumn zodiac
Use them on the boxes
versed tide
What is bad about 121b
muted rampart
@versed tide nearly everything when compared to other t10 meds
autumn zodiac
Not really, 121B is a solid medium.
Good armor decent maneuverability, high, DPM and 350 alpha, there isn't much to say that's boss about it.
winged barn
The bad part of the 121b is the modules. Other than that, it is quite solid.
My first match in it I got ammowrecked
versed tide
Looking at the stats it’s a very solid tank good hull very good gun amazing turret and mobility what is so bad about it
viscid breach
so... wargaming tried to make the game more accessible for new players, and easier to get to higher tiers, right? Then why is tier 7 now ungrindable?
Take a stock tier 7 tank, and try to grind through it. It's not fun in the slightest. Constant smashers and annihilators ruin any chance of fun you'd have there. Sure, you can use other premium tanks and have a decent enough battle. Maybe a maxed tier 7 might be okay-ish. But i decided to try and grind the T-34-1 from stock, because I didnt want to pay for yet more gold to get to free XP to pass to tier 8. It's not possible to enjoy that tank in tier 7 anymore. Sure, it might have earnt money in the short term with that halloween event, but now it's gonna cost them in the long run. New players are just gonna quit after they get to tier 7 because grinding it is hell.
verbal thistle
so... wargaming tried to make the game more accessible for new players, and easier to get to higher tiers, right? Then why is tier 7 now ungrindable?
@viscid breach money
covert jungle
FCM Needs Buff Armor...
then change it to Heavy
nimble zodiac
I see a tier 8 version of ARL 44 in your future...
Idk about 183, I still enjoy it a l o t
timid thunder
Bring back fv 183 turret armor
unique scaffold
make an FV215b turret to the FV215b 183
last void
@viscid breach i know right, I have been playing this game for about 5 years now and only since these 2 overpowered heavy blitz nation tanks came along grinding a tier 6-7 for a t10 i haven't got is a total miserable thing to do. And I love the fact that a player, with 2000 battles, 42% winrate, and 300av dmg, could suddenly be such a threat when using an annihilator... Thwy usually have 60+%wr in the tank and 2700av dmg and i think is outrageous. If Wargaming doesn't fix this soon, honestly, people would start to leave the game because of it... My suggestion is to make the matchmaking more difficult for the overpowered-premium/collectables...
pastel geyser
Wtf wg
vapid aspen
Christ
muted rampart
My friend also got 91 keys and i got 4 instead of 5. XD WG definetly fcked something up.
full token
2 warns or mutes incoming
You’ve survived this long, why not undo it and edit that lovely word out to save yourself
muted rampart
@full token .-.
smoky mantle
Balance keys
unique scaffold
WG is just great u know.. give me 0 keys for watching entire stream and my frnds 200 keys for watching 30 minutes.. I guess WG doesn't follow the normal calculations.. for them 30 minutes is greater than 2 hours
vapid aspen
Great bs
loud wave
Hello Tanker
There are so many spectators interested in the tournaments. Just joy !!!
Look what we have in the keys.
- At the moment, we are suspending delivery of keys for broadcasts around the world. An error occurred and we lost control over the handover of the keys, we are trying to get it back!
- Keys did not arrive for broadcasts on November 6 and 7. Yes, we know. Delivery on the Russian Server is also suspended. PATIENCE ONLY PATIENCE. Our best specialists are already slowing down the tornado. (edited
unique scaffold
Can you give the T110E4 a hatch buff, because everyone penetrates it when ever I play it
jagged pike
I Just whatched the entire stream and got nothing...
unique scaffold
@jagged pike cause the time already passed
spring magnet
I Just whatched the entire stream and got nothing...
@jagged pike if you just watched it, you missed the livestream. If you watched it when it was live, you just need to wait for them to give you the keys and be patient
austere citrus
Give T110E4 the hull of an E3, keep the current turret(cheeks are weak) and buff the cupola.
vapid aspen
I Just whatched the entire stream and got nothing...
@jagged pike I think we have to wait till tommorow
unique scaffold
Next week I think.
minor minnow
Yeah they’re saying keys are gonna go out to players early-mid next week
unique scaffold
I think they should release a tier 7 heavy tank with two barrels where you can shoot one shot or both at the same time but constantly loading shells like an progetto 46 to combat the annihilators and smasher
Buff is 4
latent snow
oh god no please dont
flat bane
Nooo please not again
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold are you seriously asking for a more over powered tank to defeat over powered tanks?
Like are you aware that’s not how that works?
Like put it this way
Drac and Helsing are added
Gravedigger gets added to beat them
Smasher is added to beat Gravedigger
Then Lycan is added to beat Smasher
Annihilator is added to beat Lycan
And you just get a never ending cycle
@unique scaffold no I want something that has reactive armor for heat rounds from smasher and troll angles for the annihilator while still being balanced
Gravedigger and Lycan were never op
rare sleet
@unique scaffold Yes and to balance that we give it a top speed of 1 kmph, and make it blind and have a 100m view range
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold I think everyone in this server has just got collectively dumber for reading such a sentence, “Make it good at Beating Smasher and Annihilator” like that’s not how that works in the slightest. “While Still being balanced” like what? That’s not possible unless it has a buff called “Immune to damage caused by Smasher and Annihilator, but gets torn apart by T-34-85’s and M41 Bulldogs” not how that works, at all
hardy hazel
At this point i will be mad if wg stop releasing broken tier 7 premium tanks as reward for x event and then put them in crates, even if im only have the lycan and nothing else
@sonic burrow You are kidding right?
sonic burrow
@unique scaffold what do you mean annihilator is overpowered? dont you know how weak it is
unique scaffold
Well I feel like if they could make something that was super trolly and had spaced armor it would be good
rare sleet
so like a super pershing with russian side armor at tier 7?
unique scaffold
None of you are funny
hardy hazel
Im not trying to be funny tho
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold no I want something that has reactive armor for heat rounds from smasher and troll angles for the annihilator while still being balanced
@unique scaffold m8 are you taking the pi$$ or what
@unique scaffold do you not realise there’s other tanks at tier 6-7-8 and not just Smashers and Annihilator’s?
flat bane
You guys are can't be 100% serious with these suggestions? I feel he's trolling tbh.
autumn zodiac
Would you care to rephrase that?@flat bane
queen elbow
isn't the e75 ts already kinda like that with all that effective spaced armor
muted rampart
You know? Better juct Ctrl C Ctrl V maus or fv 183 to t7
steep lance
i didnt get my rewards from the stream yet
coarse harness
Welcome to the club
hazy wasp
Hello
I wanted to ask
If I got Progetto out of the event box today, will it be taken from my garage after these measures?
nocturne mauve
Good luck getting it in the first place
crystal spoke
I've gotten 2 already its certainly not impossible to get one
coarse harness
Well 1% means it is possible but not for me
I only open tanks I already have
Even with these keys
I don't have the FCM but I keep getting the bulldog certificates
potent kraken
Nerf Emil 1
low needle
@muted rampart lmao same here.
mental pasture
Relax, you're not going to get much things by having FCM 50T, it's a pretty useless tank nowadays
winged barn
Yall are complaining about the 3750 gold compensation you will be getting. Ok. Lol.
flat bane
Hold up, FREE gold? Well I'm with WG on this one thanks G.
hardy hazel
You get the gold only if you already have those tanks
crystal spoke
And if you dont then there's your free tank
flat bane
Thanka for the Prog WG
versed tide
They should make 50t a arl 44 of t8 with a worse lower plate or something
winged barn
Nope, it always had poor armor. Troll, but poor.
mental pasture
A french medium tank that only tier 9 TDs could pen?
Press X to doubt
frosty oriole
wait so will they remove ALL things gained from the excess crates? Including tanks, used camos, legendary camos sold for gold, etc.
pseudo hedge
I hope cuz that was really unfair tbh.
barren quest
my friend got the stuff but he had his boosters and credits removed
tender bison
wait nothing has been removed from my account, is it happening to everyone? even tho i earned the progetto within the first 7 keys today, so technically that SHOULDNT be removed
noble quail
M48 line needs buff
pseudo hedge
wait nothing has been removed from my account, is it happening to everyone? even tho i earned the progetto within the first 7 keys today, so technically that SHOULDNT be removed
@tender bison well WG can see all the stuff u got from you're earned and bought keys and just whip the other stuff as they should.
tender bison
@tender bison well WG can see all the stuff u got from you're earned and bought keys and just whip the other stuff as they should.
@pseudo hedge ahh, so they'll know that i got my progetto 46 legitemately? thats good, take the fcm, take the lekpz, but plsplspls do not touch my progetto, i got that one using the first 7 keys from the stream eiguefibwewfuebvubtwrtuwv i will be so mad if they take it away
pseudo hedge
The can see what u got from the first 7 keys and then delete the rest. If WG dosnt screw up you're progetto shouldn't be touched. It will just take a long time doing this for all players
tender bison
ok thats great, thanks, gooood
wind totem
Wargaming pls only put 1 anhilator in a match sometime theres 2 anhilator in enemy and 1 anhilator in team this happened to me in my tier 6 match and pls buff m4ae38 his pen and speed is worst and also buff leopard pen
karmic lark
frick leopard's 360 damage magazine at tier 5 with a 10 second reload, and you want leopard to get buffed?
noble quail
frick leopard's 360 damage magazine at tier 5 with a 10 second reload, and you want leopard to get buffed?
@karmic lark no
The leopard has 300 burst damage on it's standard round, and I think around 260 on apcr
And I agree with @wind totem, the M4A3E8 kinda needs a pen buff
I agree with this
v
sharp laurel
American mediums are forgotten rn, lets make them GREAT AGAIN
verbal thistle
@sharp laurel they are getting a buff
Don't worry
tender bison
lmao they removed a bunch of my x3 certs and all my really cool pain camos, and my avatar, but not the tanks, ig its alright, im also lucky i converted all the keys to credits as well
noble quail
@sharp laurel they are getting a buff
Don't worry
@verbal thistle where did you hear that from?
@karmic lark I didn't say that the leopard needed a buff (although I absolutely think it needs a bit of a buff because WG over nerfed it a bit)
I just said that it doesn't have 360 damage
Even so, when I was in my M4 sherman before the last nerf on the leopard, it didn't pose as a big threat (even before the nerf).
And WG decided to nerf the leopard again
If you are talking about a tier 5 tank to nerf it's the T1 Heavy
The T1 heavy is a sealclubber's tank, it's just a big weird heavily armoured tank that is kinda mobile for it's armour.
karmic lark
@noble quail 300 burst damage's still broken for a tier 5 that reloads in 10 seconds, the challenge's supposed to be the pen or it'd be your smasher at tier 5, t1 heavy isn't armoured much, the lower glacis is GIGANTIC, sure anywhere else can't be penatrated easily cept the sides and rears, t1's weakpoint is that how large it is and its hull rotation speed, a leopard can empty a clip and get away in the time the t1 turns its hull to the leopard's direction
hot pine
Balance
vapid aspen
Ok
eager shadow
Don't buy the is7
nimble zodiac
IS-7 is a very fun tank to pub around with
noble quail
The IS-7 is a meme tank because the guns around it are strong
elfin marlin
you can ammo rack the is-7 easily with the grill15 too. you don't need the 183 for that
sharp laurel
Nerf the T1 Heavy and make the KV-1 just worse off than its original armour profile
And give its DPM gun back
At least back then the KV-1 had the lack of mobility to justify its armour
candid steeple
WZ-120 has some serious hit box issues. This happened to me before. Shell hits my space armor above tracks and its counted as a hit. No marking on the hull whatsoever. Can you fix this WG? It never happens my my other tanks. And grill that shot me shoot it almost on a right angle. This happened several times and its getting annoying.
tribal oracle
i think that is the same with the t62a as well
empty glacier
Does the 121b have that problem too?
verbal thistle
@verbal thistle where did you hear that from?
@karmic lark I didn't say that the leopard needed a buff (although I absolutely think it needs a bit of a buff because WG over nerfed it a bit)
I just said that it doesn't have 360 damageEven so, when I was in my M4 sherman before the last nerf on the leopard, it didn't pose as a big threat (even before the nerf).
And WG decided to nerf the leopard again
If you are talking about a tier 5 tank to nerf it's the T1 Heavy
The T1 heavy is a sealclubber's tank, it's just a big weird heavily armoured tank that is kinda mobile for it's armour.
@noble quail I heard it from one of the moderators
tribal oracle
@candid steeple i think this is why it killed you as show in this model of the actual tanks hitbox, that is why you probably died
latent snow
@candid steeple the shell hit mark does not indicate where the penetration occurred, he hit your hull which was behind the mudguards.
candid steeple
@tribal oracle forgot to mention that my gun was pointing at the T30 that shoot me in the turret where you can see the hit. grill was to my right so I am not really convinced he had a shot at my hull. And tbh I think that WG should add hit registry to the hull after the shell has penned the space armor. Like this we cant confirm what really happened. I think that Grill didn't have shot on my WZ-120. I had even a shots that penned on the furthest right side of the space armor and still penned as if it hit my hull. This does not happen with my T-34-2. I want WG to look into this or at least add a hit registry on a hull after shot pens space armor. Space armor means anything to see a trace of a shot on it while hull after it doesn't give info. Like I said I only encounter this with WZ so I don't know.
And what is that box extending from a hull. In game model doesn't have it. Its a lame hit box design then and unfair feature if that true. Only thing on the side of WZ is a small circilar placement beneath the turret.
unique scaffold
For the record t34-2 is at a tier with far weaker guns than wz-120 the grille while having weak pen for a TD has more than enough to overpower the mud guard and pierce the hull plus the fact it’s AP
turbid smelt
Wz 120 has no spaced armour
mud flaps are just visual, like torsion bar suspension and machine gun on top
Most spherical soviet turrent tanks have this weak spherical part at their sides
turning them useless in sidescraping positions
tribal oracle
However there is a hit mark on the mudgaurd area there fore it only means that there is a hit box cause other wise at that angle it would just richoeet off harmlessly
candid steeple
@turbid smelt at least they should add a hit registry on a hull and not some decoration. I remember that i got penned like that by Progetto in a side while my hull wasn't visible form his side of a view. I don't have a replay but after that I don't believe in just this was a side hull hit. Btw a moment ago in game ru hit my package on the mud flap and it was a hit but the shot was registerd on a package and didn't show anything on a hull. I would like WG too add that in the game.
@tribal oracle Nope space armor of E100 even though you don't pen E100 it's track side armor shows the hit penning the side armor. So your arguments falls flat.
tribal oracle
well then i blame russian bias cause i dont know what is going on with these tanks
candid steeple
@muted rampart tank that has so much pen and so good armor when used correctly. Sry don't role into a tank and expect to not be shoot by gold. Tds that cant be penned by heavies while they can pen heavy anywhere is a not healthy game design. And you probably agree to that.
pseudo hedge
If a tank is supposed to be a brawler (which the Jagd E100 is) it should either have a strong HP pool and easy to hit weak spots like Maus or strong armour and low HP like 268 or 263(Jagd has low HP of 1800 and easy weakpoints). Its so slow u cant maneuver or wiggle effective you're a giant block of HP that shoots once and then dies off.
turbid smelt
@pseudo hedge jg pz e100 is a second line support
not a brawler
it lacks severe amout of mobility for that role
l
V
winged barn
High dpm, high alpha, high pen, wide gun arc, and prammo requiring armor. I don't see the problem.
It will beat the heck out of any heavy if you use cover and trade shot for shot
mental pasture
Coff coff coff you don't need prammo if you have 250mm penetration, which is the normal for a tier 10 coff coff
Damn I'm coughing too much nowadays
glacial sinew
The ATs speed are dumb can you balance the speed
lone warren
If a tank is supposed to be a brawler (which the Jagd E100 is) it should either have a strong HP pool and easy to hit weak spots like Maus or strong armour and low HP like 268 or 263(Jagd has low HP of 1800 and easy weakpoints). Its so slow u cant maneuver or wiggle effective you're a giant block of HP that shoots once and then dies off.
Maus weakpoints are only easy to hit if the driver has 0 clue what he is doing
263 doesn’t have strong armour
muted rampart
but jagdpanzer has absolutely no armor. it should be at least 310 effective without angilng
mental pasture
"263 doesn't have good armor"
The 263:
turbid smelt
look at that massive gun mantlet and lower plate
@divinus what is point of armour when everyone can aim at massive weakspot and penetrate it?
even doom turtle has garbage armour if people could aim
unique scaffold
263 has a strong armour and its a TD... Do you expect it to be like doom turtle?
noble quail
263 has a strong armour and its a TD... Do you expect it to be like doom turtle?
@unique scaffold I expect it to be a calculated push wagon
lone warren
You conveniently forget the fact that you can bypass the superstructure by shooting the lower plate, or better yet, just going through the gun mantlet.
It’s also possible to shoot the top of the hull infront of the mantlet. I’ve done it before when facehugging them. So uh, yeah. 263’s armour is not great lmao. Only lucky RNG and incompetent players will save you from being penetrated.
mental pasture
Yeah lower plate and mantlet, but those are weakspots, if we only look for weakspots then every tank have no armor. E100 weakposts are bigger, but that doesn't mean E100 have bad armor tho.
That's enough armor for a pretty agile TD, so for it's speed, yes it's good
turbid smelt
E100 is just frozen butter
which everyone can load gold and go through
but unlike 263, e100 also has good enough side armour to have any use out of it and a turrent.
263 armour is like playing t44 can expecting people to shoot sloped part of armour instead of aiming directly at gun mantlet
isnt foch already that?
@muted rampart jg pz has armour if you play it range and in position which could utilize it
prf mm doesn't exist at tier x lmao
unique scaffold
I mean if the gun Mantlet was buffed and rendered invulnerable to med prammo and weaker ammo then you just created another balance problem
frosty oriole
the jgpz e100 has very reliable armor for me
just a bit of wiggling and angling at a 45° angle promises me at least 70% bounces
I have a 60% WR over 150+ battles
mental pasture
Have you ever tried to angle? Like that you'll make the casemate cheeks 320mm for HEAT and at least 280mm for AP
Angle while hiding the lower plate and you'll be medium tank proof, peek smartly and even 183 will struggle to penetrate you because the side armor turns to 400mm while you angle
Bro he told 150 battles in JgPz. E100, because it's nearly impossible to get a tier 10 in 150 battlesb@muted rampart
It's like angling E100, it's not that hard if you're used to the tank
noble quail
I think he was saying that he played the Jageroo in 150+ battles
or I miss interpreted what you said
frosty oriole
i have 6000+ battles with 53.3% winrate so I'm not completely uncredible
the jageroo is really nice in randoms and is often overlooked
I can definitely say it has good armor
lone warren
I think the armour profile is fine how it is. If it got a buff to the cheeks, angling like shown above will just make it so easy to be invulnerable to most tanks.
Angling won’t always save you from being penned on the cheeks, but it makes it a lot harder for a good amount of tanks you’d meet.
It’s similar to the Maus. The armour of the Maus becomes near redundant if you aren’t angling and or wiggling appropriately. You won’t always bounce everything when doing so, but you increase your chances of bouncing and make it harder for the enemy. I think this can be applied to the jg.
unique scaffold
(No med has 305+mm of penetration btw without cs)
turbid smelt
(epic round brackets gang assemble)
[I have 1600+ battles with ~63%
and armour is fine ]
mental pasture
So you guys comparing battle numbers? 418 battles (counting rankeds) and I guess I have property to say thay it's armor is good
Actually there's no med with more than 305mm pen on ammo bro, this is literraly the max without CS @muted rampart
315 still bellow 320
Those are heavies, heavies are usually on frontline, Jagdpanzer E100 isn't a frontline TD
Then you're doing something very wrong to find those enemies near you so easily
No, you don't want it to be penetrable only by TDs when angling, you only want an OP tank on your garage
And as like I said, if you peek smartly, then you'll only show the 400mm side before shooting. Your enemies will try to hit the cupola, they'll probably miss if you're "dancing" with the hull, they are reloading and can't shot you back, it's time for 800 damage in their faces
Not that hard, I learned that on my first 70 battles with jageroo
This is the star of E100, you see it? The 400mm side https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502016925405151234/774971568224075817/Screenshot_20201108-085914.jpg
thick rover
I mean if the gun Mantlet was buffed and rendered invulnerable to med prammo and weaker ammo then you just created another balance problem
This is a valid point although I would love 263 buff.
Some aspects for consideration:
- HP buff
- Spaced armour behind manlet but not an obscene amount
- Gun handling buff
Other thoughts?
muted rampart
i don t want op tank in my garage. i have enough of them. i just want it to be usefull not uselles. it s slow, huge, have no armor and half of shots go in completly different places than u are aiming. you also have awfull shell velocity that sometimes lets people move before you shell hits what sometimes can make it bounce. (i don t camp with it but in every tank sometimes you have occasion to shoot somebody at 200m+ distance)
candid steeple
Guys you gotta drive T110E4 if you are complaining about Jag being penned. Cheeks are easy pen. Upper hull and lower hull armor is pennable and then a massive cupola that everyone can pen. Jag is fine it doesn't need anything else. In jag you at least can sidescrape.
I still love E4 tho.
Guys btw I loaded gold in my WZ-120 top gun. 280mm pen right. Because we know of how good Tiger II armor is. I looked at tiger and it lower and top plates were still pretty red. He was at about 30 degree angle and his top plate was a better pen chance then a lower plate. Guys if that tanks armor wasn't overbuffed I don't know. I still penned him but cmon red on everything except turret cheeks. Cmon WG that's a bit cringy.
mental pasture
Awful shell velocity = 915 meters per second
Have no armor = medium tank proof and even some heavies pro of too, 400mm side and pure E100 hull
Half of the shots go in a completely different places than u are aiming = 0.317 dispersion
Bro, there's something really wrong about what ur saying @muted rampart
If the tank was so bad as like you say, then it wouldn't have this data in charts https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502017295107883008/773545520349315082/7.3_-_t10.png
Don't looks a bad armor based on my opinion (418 battles on it), based on Dear_HRS (more than 1600 battles and 63% WR) and neither for Star (60% too)
You're probably playing it wrong to thay that the armor is bad, well, and of conversation
pseudo hedge
Have you ever tried to angle?
@mental pasture look at the tracks pls. Also E100 can just wiggle turret but Jagd has to wiggle the complete hull. Ok well then I'll see in battle how this position holds.
mental pasture
@pseudo hedge here you are, this is HEAT proof because of the tracks, only AP and APCR penetrates and at this case, only Ho-Ri prammo pens, maybe E3 prammo too
@muted rampart LMAO you're complaining about HEAT and HE speed even if those are naturally the slowest types of ammo, LOOOOOL. Check every other tank, HEAT and HE are always very slow, there's nothing to complain
Bro actually every shell on Jagdpanzer E100 have the same speed, check blitz stars, there's really nothing to complain, 925m p/ sec for AP/HEAT/HE
Is the discussion about ammo speed? Ok
- WZ 113 FG: 760
- Ho Ri: 850 (880 with prammo)
- 183: 830
- E3 AP: 830 (1088 with APCR, which is the fastest shell type)
- 268: 760
- E100: 757 (606 with HEAT)
- Vk 72.01: same of E100
925 m/second is pretty speedy if you check all the high callibers
This is the same angle of all other prints I showed, the cheeks still 320mm, lol @muted rampart
lone warren
@thick rover I do not think a gun mantlet buff would crate ‘another balance problem’ because the weakness would still be valid.
- no flexibility - poor gun depression, poor aiming arc and no turret.
- combine that with its rather easy to hit side profile, where there’s no armour, then it should be fine.
- Most mediums at its tier should be able to track it/out manoeuvre it traverse wise
- Heavies have the superior HP pool and can abuse the fact that the 263 is on the lower end of penetration values.
Im not asking for it to be invincible, but it shouldn’t be blatantly easy to bypass the front of the tank with a weakspot that the driver can’t hide or strengthen.
I do not think the gun handling buff you suggested would be helpful. The gun handling is already fine, with accuracy and aimtime you can work with, and the movement dispersion are on the better end of tier ten tds. This is also taking into account that it’s usually going to be in close to mid range combat naturally.
pseudo hedge
True
thick rover
I just fear it will become harder to pen frontally then like a foch, if it's only weakspot is a small lower glacis,with it's mobility idk if it can be tracked reliably, maybe for others yes
But yes the HP advantage of heavies have posed a greater threat for it
I wanted gun handling buff because it would allow for more snapshots on the move / when driving towards targets / or when it is used as sniper
dense yoke
it is funny how a jagd tiger can equally trade with a grille
muted rampart
@dense yoke jagdtiger can destroy grille in 15 secs
candid steeple
Old foch could destroy grill in 7s. I miss old foch. At least give it more dpm on its single shot gun. I like big numbers not ussles HE on new gun.
dense yoke
@muted rampart Exactly
@candid steeple I agree single shot foch should get buffed
silent roost
Hello I’m here today to talk about the Emil 1, it’s completely broken and dominates the tier 8 and actually some tier 9 tanks, personally I think it needs nerfed by a long shot as the reload time isn’t even that long after the three shots fired, it does 975-1275 damage per 3 shots if penetrated with a 15 second reload time from what I’ve analysed, I have a 59 Patton which is a overall good tank high dps and decent armour resistance for a medium and turns out a Emil 1 was on the enemy team, it came down to a 1v1 with that Emil he was on 500 hp I was on 1000 hp, I was planning to do the circle technique for meds and lights but unfortunately my track was destroyed and I was shredded to pieces, it’s armour is unbelievable and only a portion of it is penetrable by a lot of guns.
pseudo hedge
Reload is 21 seconds @silent roost
Also the parts that are pentratabke by other tanks are called "weekpoints" and the part where u cant is called armour.
sudden granite
Old foch could destroy grill in 7s. I miss old foch. At least give it more dpm on its single shot gun. I like big numbers not ussles HE on new gun.
@candid steeple buff singleshot back to its usual values, nerf clip reload. Problem solved
@verbal thistle exactly xd
Ur kinda going too far now, that is if you penetrate both the HE shells.
I’d like to see you penetrate a t62a, is4 or e50m with he 2 times
verbal thistle
@candid steeple buff singleshot back to its usual values, nerf clip reload. Problem solved
@sudden granite and then 2 shot mediums and paper TDs.
And take 73% hitpoints from heavies
candid steeple
If they nerf clip as it is now they will just kill Foch. Foch is pretty eh right now tbh. Dpm is strong but everything else about the gun is eh. Specially that gun arch. I just want single shot buffed so it can compete with other td's. When ever I encounter foch in matches rearly I feel like I am powerless against it. It ussualy just gets wrecked before it can even shoot once 500 damage shot. It's now so situational tank that in my opinion its not that worth playing. It's good but not good enough to make foch popular while single shot gun lacks everything and I mean everything. I would like WG to just buff its dpm for like 300-400 more damage and thats all so it has enough dpm to scare of other tanks.
winged barn
#1 perk of the foch:
You get to scream "foch you"
noble quail
Yes
dense yoke
@silent roost Ribble, a dev of this wotb. Has responded to a person saying that EMIL1 is balanced (and does not need to be nerfed at all). He said
that: "EMIL1 is not fine and that is obvs". So i would preassume that EMIL1 is going to get nerfed some what in the future.
gleaming apexBOT
yeetus#9087 has been warned.
frosty oriole
._.
unique scaffold
i think we should all agree to buff luchs again
turbid smelt
nah it used to be sealclubbers go to tank
let it rot
candid steeple
If they are buffing luchs that means that most collectors tank needs buffs. Every collector tank from 1-3 and many of 4 are completly ussles because WG overnerfed them. They even removed some of my tier I tanks and replaced them with tier II without compensations for removing my tanks. Don't even mention low tier collector tanks. I am sick of low tier tech tree changes. It ruined the diversity of tanks there. Now everything feels completly the same and if you have a machine gun as tier I you feel like complete * because you can't pen anything. Just don't mention those tiers because WG doesn't care about them. Still waiting for return of t82 and hetzer gun but it will never happen.
turbid smelt
unless you time travel
autumn zodiac
@candid steeple can you please change that word before because and after complete?
grim briar
I would time travel to play old t82
hardy hazel
Me too, do i have to pay or something to do that?
verbal thistle
Blitz should do an event like PC where we could play the older version of the game
candid steeple
@autumn zodiac better? If I understood what you wanted to say. np thx for pointing out.
autumn zodiac
yes, thank you
bleak furnace
Bat chat is disappearing pls do something according to bat chat if the tvp releases and everyone will forgot about batchat so pls change its play style or balance it
candid steeple
Maps on blitz are too small for BC to be a BC. So I don't know how WG wana try and make it a bit stronger. buffing its dpm is dumb. And making it have armor is dumb because it wont be a BC anymore. Tbh BC line sucks and I think that BC line is a bigger problem then the tank itself. Same as FV lines.
full token
@bleak furnace They are
karmic steeple
O
frosty oriole
:>>>
turbid smelt
O.O
candid steeple
Saw that post too. I just hope that they wont overbuff its dpm and call it a day.
minor plover
Reload between shells should be changed, that’s all I guess.
frosty oriole
1-2 seconds would make much better
umbral jungle
Game so unbalanced! When u do 2.5k at tier 8 but the rest of your team pulls zeros
turbid smelt
@umbral jungle that is just part of game
chill
mental pasture
I'd rather a 4 shell clip maintaining the intraclip than a intraclip reload
hearty steeple
Tvp is getting a 4 shell clip anyways most probably with 310 alpha on top. I don't see why batchat shouldn't
candid steeple
@turbid smelt uh that burns.
turbid smelt
yes my censoring skills are bird poop
fast cave
What the f... sorry for this introduction but I usually hardly play under tier 9. And then I started grinding Swedish line. Tier 6. What a shock.
Do you WG realise how tier 7 and consequently tier 6 has become an absolute garbage tier thanks to this massive addition of stupid overpowered tanks? I never play tier 6 and tier 7 and will immediately free xp tier 6 and 7 Swedish but do u realise how ugly and painful it must be for new players to enter these tiers?
Where is this delicate sense of balancing that WG somehow had back in the days? I see this as the continuity of atgm and making this game less and less smart and sensible to a fun and derp arcade game.
If it is the case that’s at least logical, but that’s rly a pity to kill this monster of balance that the game used to be.
mental pasture
It's 4 shells only in WOT, TVP could have a faster reload meanwhile Bat chat could have 4 shells in WOTB @hearty steeple
hearty steeple
Didn't we see a short clip of tvp yesterday which showed that it had 4 shells in stream? I didn't see it live but the clip is floating around in them discordbots. Unless i misunderstood what you were trying to say@mental pasture
austere citrus
give batchat 4x350, tier 9 4x310, tier 8 4x225.
frosty oriole
tbh the tier 9 is fine as it is
turbid smelt
tier 9 is garbage
@orchid grove what if it has 270 damage
orchid grove
Look at it this way, in the WG video teasing the TVP, it quite clearly has a 4 shell clip, so at this point, there should be no one whining that Bat with 4 shells would be broken when TVP is gonna have 4 shells and a faster interclip
sudden path
Yeah just give the batchat 4 shells and a 18 second clip reload
Or 350 alpha
Maybe its justified but I think it'll be one or the other, knowing wg
unique scaffold
@orchid grove RibbleStripe told me to stay tuned to announcements concerning the Batchat. Something is coming soon I think.
orchid grove
@sudden path Well, as long as TVP is getting 4*310 with a shorter interclip, I think it's hard not to justify a 4*350 bat chat at this point
candid steeple
Ok I gotta say. Can you WG stop making tier VI a * tier. Why is in tier VII now and Gravedigger and Shamsher and Anihilator. What is tier VI supposed to do when those things show as top tiers? I just see this as WG trying to push away new players from the game. Tier VII tanks just out of nowhere deleting your entire hp while you cant pen them. Fun experience. Don't they see how unbalanced squads of 2 anihilators or Smashers are as top tiers. If your tier VII cant deal with them its ggs. They are just introducing more and more tier VI bullies. Honestly tier VI is the worst tier in the game. No jokes.
jade nest
too much high damage tanks
sand trout
Emi has 0 week points, better alpha than the AMX, super speed boost, and hos ok pen. No weakness!
jagged crescent
oh it has weaknesses, just not enough to balance how broken it is
austere citrus
bad traverse, the autoloader reload, good armor(not the best so its pennable). easy side turret pen.
candid steeple
Love too HE sides of turrets. 70mm most. Every 155mm gun can HE it and some other smaller calibers. Tho front armor of Emil I is ugh. As tier IX its easy but as a lower tier. Duh good lucky only lower plate is a weak point, everything else is a 250-290mm of effective armor without angling.
verbal thistle
WG should add a button like auto aim which will enable us to lock on targets
Because whenever 2 enemy tanks come in contact with our cross hair
Auto aim messes up our shots
(Don't tell me to disable auto aim)
mental pasture
Wait, is there already a video of Tvp? @hearty steeple
verbal thistle
Wait, is there already a video of Tvp? @hearty steeple
@mental pasture it's on instagram
minor minnow
If the BatChat really is getting a buff it’d be interesting to see where on the gun it’ll be buffed. Personally I believe a buff anywhere would be viable, the Interclip down to 2.5-2 seconds, a 4 shell clip, or just an alpha buff would be nice
mental pasture
An intraclip buff of 0.5 is almost worthless, I only see 2 good options for it
- 2 seconds of intraclip
- Maintain the intraclip, but add a fourth shell
Maybe the TVP with a fourth shell too wouldn't be a problem, because the playstyles will still pretty different
coarse harness
-0.5 sec (×2) is definitely noticable and would be useful
Another egirl clone😩
muted rampart
it would be broken
mental pasture
Ok, let's make the math
Nowadays a Bat Chat with a set focused in DPM have a total reload of 19.89 secs reload, 2805 DPM and have to be exposed for 6 seconds
With only 2.5 intraclip we get 18.89 secs reload and 2953 DPM, and have to be exposed for 5 seconds
This looks soooooo noticeable... As noticeable as the last camo buff on Grille
acoustic shard
Decrease the reload for the kranwagons First shell from 11.4 to 10.4 it's just to impractical from a brawling stand point to have an 11.4 and is a over all downgrade in that area from the t9 which has a 10.1 for the First shell.
unique scaffold
No it is fine
tawdry glen
i like how people scream in chat cuz "swedish line too op"
graceful birch
Hey Wargaming! I really think the maus could use a decent buff to its turret armour
It might also need a lil buff on its front hull too!
The buff could at least be impenetrable when it angled
It is pretty paper on the turret
Pls wargaming i beg for more turret armour
The E100 got one so I believe it is time for the maus
The maus is no longer overpowered
Pls at least make the turret stronger
The bottom plate is always penable
Cheeks dont need to be paper
nimble zodiac
Oh I guess Kranvagn is supposed to be a brawler now, instead of a hulldown god meant to pick the enemy down safely
@graceful birch if no recent times has the E100 received a turret armor buff, it was just to the mantlet
candid steeple
@graceful birch sorry what? After hp buffs its a fortress.
hardy hazel
I think this guy is trolling
coarse harness
@mental pasture it's not about looking good, you can feel the difference in battle
If that's your actual ign you don't even have other high tier autoloaders other than the BC so idk what are you talking about
Thas 1 sec can be the difference between getting hit twice or just once while you are exposed
The whole tank is too situational lol
mental pasture
Well, if the discussion is about Bat Chat, then I don't see why I need another high tier auto loader to talk about a tank that I already have
Depends a lot, but 1 second is too situational
I would be more comfortable in a 2 seconds intraclip, because 1 second only change things in a few situations
full token
I’d hate if the Batchat has a long 19 second clip reload. The short reload it has rn feels good. It’s above 10s so you can reset camo, and it’s also short enough that you are ready quick
frosty oriole
I like the 3x310, but 3 seconds between shells is really annoying
nimble zodiac
Waiting for the second shell already gives meds half their reload
mental pasture
Yeah @nimble zodiac, that another reason of why I don't see 2.5 intraclip so useful
The meds will still being able to shot you a few milliseconds after the third shell. I'm really insecure about how useful would be only less 1 second on the total reload of a tank that need to be always fast
coarse harness
Most meds have more than 6 sec reload
The only ones under 6 sec are the russian meds and the Leo 1
You could also finish other autoloaders more effectively since the only one with 2.5 intraclip in T10 is the T57
And 1 sec is enough to pull back behind a corner or hill
orchid grove
@coarse harness That's true, but also remember that it takes time to pull out, and aim the first shell too
Although, this being said, I still am always an ardent advocate about 4*350
mental pasture
With this point in the table, I get even less confident about the utility of 0.5 secs buff
nocturne mauve
4x350 is too much
frosty mural
how can this be balanced? 4 clipper heavies. Battle ended in less than a 2 min...
frosty oriole
its RNG bro
nimble zodiac
Autoloaders/autoreloaders I don't think are considered in matchmaking. Also you claim this is because of balance but you're just hiding a complaint about matchmaking.
Besides autos/autores was 3 vs 5 in that game, which won't come around like that much
frosty mural
sure, tell it to our heavy clippers that got clipped out in first 30s
nocturne mauve
Or whenever my team only has support tanks for both tiers while the enemy has frontline tanks in top tier..
hardy hazel
Its balanced, we cant cry about it here or ppl will jump to our necks
muted rampart
I had a battle in which enemies had 2 t57, amx 50B, proggetto, bc 25 t and 2 fvs 183. I don t think i need to tell that it was 1.5 minute 7:0
grim briar
Emi has 0 week points, better alpha than the AMX, super speed boost, and hos ok pen. No weakness!
@sand trout if i can do 1400 damage to one in a comet its not broken learn to play then u can complain
distant river
Welcome to lesson number 428 about why WG doesn't listen to the community...
"It's not broken I can do damage to it"
nimble zodiac
I think the upper plate should be easy to penetrate, but the turret remains strong, so it can't bully tier 7s as well with the hull
frosty oriole
^
distant river
Whichever team played the best, now read the pinned messages @versed tide
silent spruce
WG please rework the WZ120 grind. The amount of useless modules you have to unlock is terrible, and they're expensive. At least let me straight away free xp top gun.
jagged crescent
no
candid steeple
@silent spruce t-54 needs 170k xp. WZ-120 needs 270k xp. Yeha great balance by WG. Plus WZ is so ussles without its top gun. Nothing about the tank is good until you get the gun. Tho for low of god why do I need to grind 43k xp for a 8 more mm of pen and then another 59k xp for 30 more damage and then another 59k for a top gun. WHy just why. I maxed WZ today man its a hell to play that thing. Still managed to keep it at 59-60% winrate but jeez tank is so annoying to max. No other med suffers that much. Its so unfair.
jagged crescent
The top gun isn't that good either.
And there's only one thing that's bad about it but it's a huge flaw
austere citrus
ngl, i use the stock gun on the wz-120 because all other guns suck.
versed tide
120 needs a buff on two things 6 or 7° of gun depression better pen and 440 alpha keep dpm and lower the amount of xp to get the guns
austere citrus
If you buff the gun to 6 degrees of gun depression, that is already enough.
unique scaffold
Lekpz needs a buff. It is so hard to play against t9 and even 8 sometimes. The tank has hardly any hit points and no armor. The only thing it has is dpm which isn’t even amazing. If it gets shot even once u are put at a massive disadvantage. The 301 is better in every single way. I think if u either improve gun handling on the move or give the tank a bit more hp it can be competitive.
hardy hazel
Its like a premium ru
candid steeple
Chineze tanks are meant to have bad gun depression. If you ask me my biggest problem with WZ is that every td can snap a shot at your turret and it will pen. Chineze tanks are meant to have good turret armor and WZ-120 has terrible turret armor. Buff its front turret armor to 220-230mm and I will be happy with the tank so WT can't just snap a shot at me. WZ doesn't have gun depression but it lacks armor too. I don't want WG's stupid depression buffs like what happened to t-62A. I need a turret that can at least take the hits.
austere citrus
give it 6 degrees of gun depression on top gun from 3 degrees.
noble quail
M48 needs buff
versed tide
@candid steeple first the 62a is now one of the best meds so I wouldn’t call it worthless and increased gun depression also means more effective armor and they can buff both but I think a pen buff and gun depression buff is all that is needed
rare sleet
ive spent like 120k exp on my wz-120 trying to research the modules yet I still can't play it because all the guns are like the same thing with a tiny pen increase, wtf ive spent 100k on guns and still its not good, 55k away from top gun.. I hope its atleast playable
plucky pumice
Bring back the original armour the russian meds and see what happens to meta lol
fiery dagger
So many smoothbrains...
austere citrus
WZ-120 should get 6 degrees of gun depression from 3 degrees. Buff Conqueror turret. @turbid smelt That is funny, if they won't buff the gun depression, turret buff+alpha buff from 400 to 420 like the tier 10.
last shadow
I stopped reading when someone said the lekpz needs a buff
turbid smelt
@austere citrus 3° gun depression makes it fun and challenging to play
noble quail
The lekpz doesn't need a buff tbh
It's still a menace with that HE
candid steeple
I don't want WG to buff gun depression because that changes the whole identity of a tank. WZ was ment to be like this from the first designs. I just want WG to make it a bit better in what its currently doing. Dpm is already through the roof but gun depression is limiting it and that's a cool concept. I call T-62A gun depression buff so dumb because they gave all around good tank a thing that removed its limitation. I can just imagine how object 140 players feel. Honestly I want the +2 more gd buff removed. You know that if WG just gives everyone gun depression and almost every tank has almost the same alpha as a tier X med. They will be the same in that aspect but then if their gunandeling are the same why has one med more armor then another. How is that fair if guns of both tanks can do the same. Bad gun depression was for me a distinguished in tanks playstile but apparently WG just likes making tanks dumber to drive as a buff.
austere citrus
Then make the alpha 420, make the dispersion like laser, and buff turret armor if u gonna keep the 3 degrees.
latent snow
Buff turret armor? What do expect to just not move or wiggle at all? The turret armor on the wz120 is good, just don’t make it so easy for your enemies to shoot your weak spots
austere citrus
its actually fairly weak and is easily pennable with HEAT compared to other turrets.
hardy hazel
Well its HEAT it should pen easy
thick rover
What if we buff is7 side armour ;))
nimble zodiac
I’d much rather have some sort of firepower buff, because it has been lacking in damage for many many updates
candid steeple
WZ-120 turret can be penned even by tier VIII td standard ammo. We wont talk about tier IX almost any tank which can pen the turret. Around the gun armor is 200-230mm of effective armor. Most things can pen that. Tho WZ-120 doesn't lack dpm. It has enough for that alpha. Gun is already enough accurate and aiming time is what 2.5s or something. In my opinion tank only lacks a bit more of an armor but only for turret.
Because like I said WT just snaps a shot at you and it pens your turret. Like the fk.
last shadow
Might as well buff the t34-2 turret armour, cuz it can also be penned by t8 tds with t10 guns
BIG BRAIN
candid steeple
@last shadow nah I think that T-34-2 is fine and fun tank to play. It doesn't need buffs. Play those tanks first and then comment.
unique scaffold
You missed the sarcasm in his comment
last shadow
Well idk about you but I love the t34-2
My point was the fact that you said that the 120s turret can be penned by t8 td
Meanwhile most of them use t10 guns with atleast 230-240ish pen
So easy and that argument was useless
Also the 34s turret can also be penned by most stuff heavy and td on t8 but with a little bit skill even that is no problem to avoid
Also yeah the sarcasm was real in that 1
T34 is fine
candid steeple
In tier VIII only TD's are problem with penning WZ-120 turret. In tier IX and X everything is a problem.
I love T-34-2 too.
last shadow
230 turret armor on the weakest part i could find is imo enough for a medium to bounce other meds
With some wiggeling its good enough
(Imo)
unique scaffold
Your a tier 9 medium going against tier 10 tanks what do you expect especially when wz-120 is compared to other tier 9 mediums it has some luxurious features a lot of other mediums would die to have
meager spruce
I had not heard the word luxurious for quite some time
candid steeple
3 degree of gun depression is such luxury. Limiting the entierity of your dpm if you cant find a flat ground. And while you have to expose your turret and everyone can shoot you unlike other tanks that don't have turret armor but 10 degree.
last shadow
high alpha
insane aiming time
high dpm
quite mobile
You can work against the gun depression by effectively using hills and with that use your dpm and armor again...
karmic portal
Or you can just get a vickers cr and go brrrrrr
last shadow
The Chinese toptier meds are not like new cars who literally do most things for you with every assistance system possible in them
They are more like a oldtimer without any of this
Just tank and only that
It challenges you to work/play with what is there
Its not a t62a which literally plays the battle for you, cuz of what it has/does
candid steeple
Sadly its not a case with this game anymore. Oh well I just want turret armor buffed a bit so not aimed shots can't just go trough it.
winged barn
I guess the t54 also needs a turret buff
nimble zodiac
Give TOG the HP buff the others got 😂
Like I appreciate the extra 10 HP, but I think it could be more like 100 or so like the rest
noble quail
Sad M48 Patton noises
thick rover
^
hexed fjord
buff camo on grille 15
on mines I got spopotted many times by WZ-113 which is a fckin HEAVY not even light, and I was behind bush I had camo net on and regular camo...
proud panther
What should be buffed on the Pershing? I feel like it's really sad how the Panther II is better in terms of armor, gun, while the Pershing doesn't have a great mobility, so what does it have for itself ?ALSO it's kinda fked up how it's mantelet can be penned by a SPIC.
turbid smelt
@hexed fjord can you send screenshot
i really think you don't know how to use a bush
floral silo
Buff Emil 1 pls. It needs to be strong enough to get 100% winrate
noble quail
What should be buffed on the Pershing? I feel like it's really sad how the Panther II is better in terms of armor, gun, while the Pershing doesn't have a great mobility, so what does it have for itself ?ALSO it's kinda fked up how it's mantelet can be penned by a SPIC.
@proud panther the whole line needs a buff
From the M4A3E8 to the M48
The M4A3E8 needs a bit of a pen buff
the T20 needs a dpm buff
The Pershing Needs a dpm buff and a turret buff
The M46 stays the same, it's balanced ( although I want the turret to be like in wot pc)
The M48 needs accuracy and an armour buff
That's just my opinion though.
sinful ruin
Buff Sheridan Maneuverability
muted rampart
@sinful ruin sheridan is balanced. It doesn t need changes
last shadow
Why.
Sheridan is still stronger than average
full token
It doesn’t nerfs anymore. If anything, the atgms are still annoying, but the rest of the tank is easy enough to deal with. Just don’t try HE on it unless it’s stationary and you have good shots on the turret rear. Or just use standard ammo and shoot in the middle. It doesn’t have that op mobility anymore either
nimble zodiac
Hit the lower plate with HESH, mmmm
turbid smelt
turrent and driver's hatch is also weak
cedar slate
Bro jg e100 needs buff
full token
I think it’s pretty decent already. It has armor if you angle it, and the gun is already quite powerful
near token
what about droid attacks on wookies
nimble zodiac
I’m not sure how to take this and translate it to a change in 183
sudden granite
I’m not sure how to take this and translate it to a change in 183
@nimble zodiac tbh the gun aim etc should be buffed. Now you get spotted every time you shoot, mobility is nothing, armor is nothing and chances are pretty high you miss.. just an accuracy buff would make it balanced instead of plainly bad, though one could argue that it’s a derp tank and it’s not supposed to be balanced
unique scaffold
how are we supposed to win when our enemies is having 2 annihilator...?!
muted rampart
i have no clue
unique scaffold
this is why wotb auto matcher is trash sometimes 😔
green radish
The day when annihilator was released you could get 4 of them just in the enemy's team
minor minnow
how are we supposed to win when our enemies is having 2 annihilator...?!
Not doing 800 damage
sullen jolt
actually the best thing to do presently would be to remove ATGM from T92 and sheridan
unique scaffold
I should have bought the annihilator. Now it will only come in crates because it is op.
acoustic shard
How come the Is-6 with the Dpm gun doesn't get the same buffs as the Td's it's got the same pen. but it can face t9s. It's running the same gun as all the stock Isu's and things but doesn't seem to be getting the Pen buffs being handed out. And while were at it, increasing the Vindicators HE to 87 from 80.
unique scaffold
buff the chi-to
rapid citrus
Petition to buff the batchat
unique scaffold
If tvp coming, buff batchat seriously you guys need to buff batchat it's no point playing batchat when tvp got everything batchat have + more stuff
thick rover
^
candid steeple
@unique scaffold it's simple. Don't play tier VI. WG doesnt care about that tier so why play it. Its a dumpster tier that is suffering whenever they make new OP tier VII premium. My most played tanks tier VI got 600+ and 66% winrate each. I don't play them anymore because tier VI doesn't allove you to show your skill when played a tank that just sees you and kills you. I am just playing things at tier VIII or above. They ruined low tiers with tech tree changes an they ruined tier VI and VII with their premium bs. Only lvls worth playing are above. I only go down when I gotta grind stuff.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold it's simple. Don't play tier VI. WG doesnt care about that tier so why play it. Its a dumpster tier that is suffering whenever they make new OP tier VII premium. My most played tanks tier VI got 600+ and 66% winrate each. I don't play them anymore because tier VI doesn't allove you to show your skill when played a tank that just sees you and kills you. I am just playing things at tier VIII or above. They ruined low tiers with tech tree changes an they ruined tier VI and VII with their premium bs. Only lvls worth playing are above. I only go down when I gotta grind stuff.
@candid steeple also when i play on tier 7 - 8 - 9 i always meet those noobies progetto player...
all tier feels like hell now
echo burrow
So many fun tanks
unique scaffold
WG is doing it so unfair.. they must hv taken all the 3 tanks people got from the keys.. they don't deserve it
dense yoke
Ribblestripe is hinting something special for BC. So be patient@unique scaffold/others
candid steeple
WG should go and nerf all premium tanks across the board and undo stupid buffs that they did to some tanks to mask their terrible balance issues. But WG will never o it because they are at the process like with PC with milking the game because it became enough popular. PC is already terrible and unbalanced mess but with now creative here they are with they premiums this game has more potential to become a hell hole for players. And they are planning to continue doing this until people had enough. My only reason why I still tolerate premium power creep is that economy in this game is 10 times better then on PC.
barren zenith
Buff the AMX 50 100, armour or gun
unique scaffold
hello I would like to know if you know the link for the French server
hearty steeple
50 100 is quite nice rn, it just gets outperformed by emil 1. it is the emil that need nerfing.
merry thicket
buff obj.140 turret armor pls or just give it extra 1/2° of gun dep
candid steeple
Better nerf T-62A. Thing is overbuffed.
sinful leaf
T-62A isn't exactly OP but it doesn't take textbook knowledge to abuse it's solid turret while using the gun depression. Obviously it makes the Object 140 irrelevant for most but 140 still has the hull armor and extra power to weight, along with a lower profile. Also AP for standard shells gud
muted rampart
Just nerf t62 A reload for maybe a second so 140 will have worse armor but better gun
candid steeple
Traits with T-62A compared to object 140 were that T has way better turret and better dpm but object has better hull armor and better gun depression. Now T has gun depression turret armor and dpm over object 140. Obj is a fine tank. T is overbuffed. Just cancel that 2+ degree on depression and tank is fine again. That 2+ made T be no skill.
versed tide
T62a does not need a nerf rather 140 needs a buff
full token
140 has better hull. I find that it helps a lot, especially when you have to push on enemies, since the turret itself isn’t entirely paper, so some aiming is needed to ensure penetration, and the hull gets random bounces with the steep angles. That and the mobility makes it more suitable for rushing enemies and circling them. For the T62A the hull is worse, and it’s taller, so it’s easy to hit the hull and pen, since it’s less angled and thus weaker.
sinful leaf
2 degrees of extra gun depression makes a tank not need the use of skill? What? True, it wasn't a necessity to buff the T-62A's gun depression, but the argument that 7 degrees of gun depression makes a tank skilless is flawed in my opinion.
Also Object 140 and T-62A literally have the same DPM so idk what you are talking about
VV this below is a valid point
unique scaffold
140 also has better pen thanks to the AP
candid steeple
Just had a game where half of my team were under 50% players and enemy team had 5 people over 58%. I wonder who did better. My team didin't even manage to hit enemy twice. GGG. Good matchmaking WG.
full token
Those teams happen. You don’t lose all of them. If you’re good enough, you lose fewer of those
candid steeple
well if enemy team just wipes the floor with your team on theo ther side and they are full hp + they are good players. There quite little that you can do.
full token
Ik, I’ve seen those battles happen. But I’ve also seen many battles where the team pulls out a win
stark cape
Pls decrease the price of AT 15 AP shell.
680 credits to do 190 dmg is so expensive.
autumn zodiac
It's getting a damage buff next update
candid steeple
I am in a losers queue. Quite often. Kind of add mm that wont trow in 45% win rate players when you are over 55%? Let wr 45% fight against 45% winrate. Dont worry this guys here were under 45%.
Um just had a game right now of all in my team under 45% xD WTF is this.
jagged crescent
I kinda don't care
nocturne venture
Buff e4 hatch
rare sleet
if 45% wr faced 45% wr, and 60% faced 60% etc... Over time everyones winrate will slowly become 50% wr.
candid steeple
Nope buff E4 cheeks. Buffing E4 hatch will make E4 broken.
distant river
Omg how do you expect me to play with bots who have >current WR-2<??? It's so unfair I'm so much better than them and it's just insulting you even think that I should be playing with everyone in game 🤮
Welcome to #tank-balance-discussion ...
candid steeple
I thought to comment but no. You just red the last post and went berserk. Your answare is a 🤮 but I will keep it like that. Enjoy.
I actually feel bad to making my text look like that so thx for pointing that out but you went over the top.
raw maple
Not bad
frosty oriole
no wrong channel L
vapid aspen
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 SIKE L
hexed fjord
buff camo is on grille
lunar niche
Camo buff is useless as long as you need to turn the hull for gun angles.
mental pasture
Not Exactly, but ok @lunar niche ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
main sundial
Make kv 2 like smasher or nerf smasher anyway they are the same tanks but with a cool skin or change smasher a lil
nimble zodiac
Oh boy they’re actually quite different
mental pasture
There's a big difference between them
- Smasher is precise and have an actual fair reload for a 152mm gun
- KV-2 is just an overrated tank
copper ferry
@muted rampart great name
muted rampart
@copper ferry thx
candid steeple
Ye they nerfed the pen on KV-2 but them release the Smasher that has tier X AP pen on its gold rounds. And thing about KV-2 and SU-152 is that those tanks can HE you but you can HE them too with 152 mm guns. Smashers is just like fk all that balanc and what not. Give no weak point give broken gun for its tier and make it move fast so it lacks nothing. KV-2 is just a meme derp tank that was fun to play before Gravediger came and everything else after that. Yeah I played this game for over 5 years and I know the fun times. This ain't the fun times.
sand trout
smasher aint fast but u are right. Also tier 10 is still fun so...
errant kiln
Anyone else wish that they gave the E 50 a competitive 8,8cm gun? Like one leading off from the current tier IX 8,8 available to it, but with a better rate of fire.
It'd be hilarious to permatrack people
candid steeple
It would be hilarious if 8mm more pen wouldn't cost 43k xp and 30 more damage cost 59k xp for WZ upgrade guns.
austere citrus
they should just nerf grille dpm and make the camo like WT
mental pasture
@candid steeple actually SU-152 and KV-2 can HE each other
drowsy idol
why not just play wt then
noble quail
I can still HE myself in the KV-2
dreamy oar
Ive seen a kv2 he themselves before
mental pasture
Oh nevermind, it actually can
spark gorge
kv 2 is actually pretty garbage, but its super fun to play, and a lot of people love it
smasher on the other hand, wg nerf that shite pls
copper ferry
nerf smasher, buff kv2, people only thought the kv2 was OP when it shot them in the back with HE, it could not pen most mediums, and couldnt pen any heavies frontally. Smasher however can HE 1shot everything at tier 6, most tier 7, and most tier 8 lights and some tds. Nerf smasher buff kv2
flat bane
T7 is gone
noble quail
Tier 7 is a big mess right now
candid steeple
And tier VI is suffering the mess that tier VII is. Every game a Smasher in it. Now and anihilator squads.
winged barn
Tier 7 has always been the most broken tier. It's only gotten worse
sinful leaf
Tier 7 was broken since a long time ago. As is now the damage is entirely irreversible.
mental pasture
Then, there was an age where E25 was an incredible sniper tank, the pen wasn't a problem even if it is quite low, but in 30 seconds your enemies would be gone. At long distances, it was a real heavy tank killer because they couldn't spot it before lose half of the HP
And now, I don't recommend playing T7 unless if you have an OP tank, E25 is still good, but not the king that it was
jagged crescent
avoid t7 if u are not a:
-annihilator
-smasher
drowsy idol
what about t29
sinful leaf
@jagged crescent you forgot Dracula and Helsing
winged barn
T29 works wonderfully in this op tank spam. I wonder why...
austere citrus
i play annihilator and smasher at tier 7
noble quail
The Smasher was getting old, So they added the Annihilator
The problem got even worse
What next? A mini maus at tier 7?
Tier 7 rn is not balanced
mental pasture
There's 2 ways to revive tier 7:
- Massive nerfs
- 5.5 of premium tanks
winged barn
Yes please to that 5.5 of premium tanks
(A premium tank owner)
sinful leaf
So just turn current premiums into collectors so their value goes up by 100%? Kek.
Better than a nerf WG will never do
mental pasture
If premium tanks become collectors, then finnaly my T23E3 will have some utility, free gold hehe boy
But that actually makes sense, if the prices increase, then we'll see less premiums on battles after 3 or 4 months
vagrant bridge
ola
sinful leaf
Problem is WG wouldn't be likely to do that either because I'm pretty sure more than the fair share of the playerbase purchases tier 7 premiums, so less people buying could result in less profit. WG definitely won't commit to something if it ends up causing them to make even less money...
I say that under the immediate realization that WG committed to update 5.5 seeing only long term profit from turning tech tree tanks into pseudo-premiums that had their value increased by a lot, and not the even more long term profit of you know, not breaking tech trees and angering almost all of the community (which has not enough profit anyways so of course WG did the former)
wind totem
Nerf anhillator dmg or keep big reload time matchmaking is already worst and when ur team got no anhillators and enemy team has 2 of them u can realise what would have happened
mental pasture
@wind totem matchmaker doesn't know what tanks are OP, it just choose
It's not MM fault if your enemies have 2 annihilators, neither your enemie's fault for driving an OP tank. It's WG's fault for make them.
turbid ridge
May i politely ask that if the Kranvagen line is going to be introduced... that the heavy AMX would get either A. Better consumables, B. More frontal armor, OR C. Better gun depression??? The kran line makes the AMXs irrelevant in every way except engine power... give the AMX something to make it worth it again.
verbal thistle
Kranwagn doesn't have DPM
And mobility
The only thing it's superior to amx is the armour profile.
And that's it
noble oyster
Yes Kranvagn lacks in speed. It's the swedish engineering made turrent strong. You can penetrate Kranvagn's turrent if you are having calibrated. Most of the tier 9 and 10 tanks could penetrate Kranvagn's turrent
frosty oriole
kranvagn has an autoreloader which allows less vulnerability than 50b
verbal thistle
kranvagn has an autoreloader which allows less vulnerability than 50b
@frosty oriole it has god awful DPM once it dumps all 3 shells. If you face off 50b vs Kranwagn
Then obviously 50b wins considering 50b player knows what he's doing
thick rover
Amx is fine imo
noble oyster
Amx 50B needs slightly some side armor. Reason: we can easily HE the side. The side armor needs some buff leave the rear side of 50B. Just the side part of 50b. Give it IS-8 armor atleast
turbid ridge
AND gun depression... AND better consumables... combine the three of those things and you get a significantly better tank than AMX
hardy hazel
Just make it a dumb tank with maus armor, the broken consumables and St. Emil gun depresion 🤪
Bro, 50b doesnt need any buff
hearty steeple
The 50 100 gets powercrept by emil 1. The 50b and kranvagn serve different roles and have their own niche
mental pasture
50 100 was already powercrept even before Emil 1 in my opinion
I never played it, but seems too easy to beat
turbid ridge
Note, I am not saying ALL THREE things should be buffed on AMX 50 100, just one
frosty oriole
50 100 doesnt need a buff, emil 1 needs a nerf
if you buff 50 100 in any way, that would honestly make it too strong
better gun -> overpowered clip damage
better armor -> ruins the point of the tank
better mobility -> already good for a heavy
thick rover
agreeE with this 100% ^
hearty steeple
I mean i wouldn't mind more speed but yeah it doesn't need a buff. Reason why 50 100 are easy to beat is because they get punished really hard for tiny mistakes because of the combination of a clip and no armour, just like 50b.
mental pasture
Tecnically 50 100 much more like a medium than a heavy, it could be a heavy in tier 5, maybe even with a troll armor in tier 6
turbid ridge
yeah, ok... Emils needs debuff... maybe better consumables on AMX too?
mental pasture
AMX 50 100 actually have a good armor, you all are wrong lmao
winged barn
At least use calibrated smh
jagged crescent
Stupid use gold
verbal thistle
AMX 50 100 actually have a good armor, you all are wrong lmao
@mental pasture good lord
It needs a nerf
sullen jolt
@mental pasture did u use tier 1 tank or tier 5 tank for that AMX50100 Armour profile??
mental pasture
That's a legit picture of a tier 10 TD aiming to this tankbro, AMX 50 100 armor is OP but everyone is too stuck in matrix for understand 😂
unique scaffold
Amx armor is surprisingly good the T49 struggles to pen the front plate head on
austere citrus
I don't think 50 B should be buffed since I think it's already good, but who cares, if it gets a buff, that's even better.
orchid grove
@frosty oriole Well, 50 100 used to have 4 shells for most of its existence. And now that heavies have tons of HP, it ought to get those 4 shells back
dense yoke
I agree with positive.
unique scaffold
Yes with 4shells you're too exposés to finish it while with 3shells you have time to take cover
noble oyster
#BUFF ATGM's that's what I want to day.
BUFF ATGM's or nerf BRITISH LIGHT TANKS
unique scaffold
wotb match finder is really trash bruh
orchid grove
@unique scaffold French tanks have always been about that very high risk, very high reward dynamic, especially on other platforms. If you can position yourself where you can expose to get your entire magazine out, you're handsomely rewarded, but at the same time, if you play poorly, or make inefficient use of the magazine, then you pretty much get deleted without doing much. They're not supposed to forgiving autoloaders where you can quickly pop off a few shells and then go safe. If that's the gameplay you want, that's what the American and Czech autoloaders are for. The French are all about that huge firepower.
And the Blitz 50 100 has already had 4 shells, so it's not like this is some radical unexplored territory.
frosty oriole
@orchid grove as I said, buffing the gun makes its clip damage too OP
310 * 4 = 1240 average which can destroy a large amount of tanks in ONE CLIP
do you want one of those running around the battlefield?
eager sage
^ TDs will have nightmares
turbid smelt
tier 7 would get clapped so hard
amx 50b would become mini wtf auf e100
mental pasture
Imagine making a 150mm HE damage in only a clip
orchid grove
@frosty oriole Yes, because it's a huge, paper target that needs to expose itself for at least 10s, and with poor accuracy, it's unlikely to pen all 4 shells in many scenarios.
And as I've said, 50 100 with 4*310 has already existed on Blitz for a substantial amount of time, and it wasn't that bad. No one complained about it back in the day, and a lot of people were really upset when it was nerfed down to 3 shells. And remember that back in the day, tier 8 heavies couldn't get up to 2100 HP like they can now, and tier 7 wasn't full of Annihlators and Smashers, so that 1240 clip potential was a lot more influential.
The only reason why 50 100 got nerfed in the first place was because the DPM was too high, it was the highest DPM heavy in the game when they buffed the alpha from 280 to 310.
Don't act like 4*310 would be some new gamebreaking thing. It's already existed, and it was perfectly fine, and that was back when tanks were a lot weaker than they are now. 10s is way longer than you think, especially in a tank as large and paper as a 50 100
jagged crescent
Doesn’t the gun have 235 base pen.
dense yoke
let's remember that it is very easy to HE french heavies back.
frosty oriole
no, it doesn't have bad accuracy (are you telling me 0.31 dispersion is bad)?
Just because you have to sit out there for 9 seconds (not 10) doesnt eliminate the fact that 1240 clip damage is overpowered. just because it WAS like that, doesnt meant it SHOULD be like that
the super high clip damage (just look at the dang fv301, one of the better light tanks with 1200 HP) promotes rushing tactics where noobs rush out, kill 1 tank, and die (which we definitely don't want)
the super high clip damage is also completely overpowered in an end-game situation (1v1, 1v2, 2v1, 2v2) because it can effectively destroy an entire or 3/4 a tank's HP while having the HP of a heavy tank in medium mobility
930 is already high enough as it is, and emil's 960 is really pushing it (which was my entire point of it needing a nerf of some sort to compensate for the super high clip damage with a super good armor profile)
yea, just imagine this situation:
fv301 spotting out in the open, 50 100 rushes and rams fv301 shooting a 1240 clip while fv301 shoots back with a pew pew 190 damage gun, fv301 dies, 50 100 dies
grand swift
Hmm
turbid smelt
I agree with star
amx 50 100 would surpass t 28 defender in damage output
and that is a dedicated autoloading td
guut noight
mental pasture
Star got me when he talked about the Fv301
Dammit, I should really go sleep, 5:52 AM now, bye guy
orchid grove
@frosty oriole
- That's the fully aimed accuracy. The gun handling isn't great, and the aim time is really long for a 100/105
- 10s absolutely does mean that 1240 clip damage is not overpowered. Get it through your skull that clip potential != alpha. You're making the moronic assumption that having 1240 clip potential is the equivalent of running around with a gun that hits for 1240 alpha. You only get to deal 1240 if you can find a target stupid enough to sit in the open in front of a fully loaded 50 100 for the full 10s.
- It is at least 10s because you have to take into account the time needed to peek out, aim, and also pull back
- Not only has the 50 100 already had 4*310 and proven that it's not broken, but that kind of firepower still exists. The ISU-152 can deal 1280 in 12s, and doesn't have to deal with a long reload, and the 1200 on the T28 defender in 13s isn't far off either. Do they promote YOLO rush gameplay? No because believe it or not, most people are not braindead morons that will YOLO rush just to deal 1200 damage. Just because you might be does not mean that others will be.
- In 1vX situations, it's not overpowered because the 50 100 must trade substantial HP to get its shells out, and this is coupled with pretty terrible camo rating. Moreover, despite being fast for a heavy, 50 100 is no speed demon. The p/w is substantially weaker than meds, and 45km/h speed isn't exactly super speed. Heck, even on PC/console, where 50 100 is not only faster, but also packs 6 shells, 50 100 cannot 1vX all that efficiently.
- What kind of light tank is going to get rammed by a 50 100, and then allow it to hit a full clip? Go ahead, try to ram a light tank with a 50 100, and then just get your current 3 shell clip out on it. It will never happen because people aren't morons.
Your opinion reeks of complete ignorance of reality, and shows your thoroughly poor understanding of how the game works, and proves your opinion irrelevant
sharp laurel
I mean tiger 2 would be jealous of that damage output
frosty oriole
I'll quote a few things:
"most people are not braindead morons that will YOLO rush just to deal 1200 damage"
I'm laughing so hard at this right now
"must trade substantial HP to get its shells out"
yes, a heavy tank with 1750+ HP which DEFINITELY trade the HP in a 1v1 situation, do you think people CAMP in a 1v1 situation? with that mobility, definitely not
"PC/console"
this is blitz, not console. the wt auf e100 existed for a period of time
"it will never happen because people aren't morons"
lol
"proves your opinion irrelevant"
aight ima head out i suck so much 🤣
noble quail
M48 line needs buff
That's all I'm gonna say
orchid grove
@frosty oriole
aight ima head out i suck so much
Perhaps you should. If I had a 38% winrate in the Bat Chat 25t and a 25% winrate in the 50b, I wouldn't be trying to make arguments on autoloaders. Most actual trolls win more than that. Perhaps you should take up the YOLO to deal 1200 damage strategy, it'd probably improve your stats
But of course, I didn't need to check your stats to know that you clearly have close to zero understanding of the game, and especially autoloaders; your stats merely confirmed what I already guessed to be true
frosty oriole
please consider the amount of games I have in the 50b and batchat and I'd also like to point out both crews are severely below 100%
also take a look at my stats in the 13 90, one of the worst tier 8 tanks
I may not be the best, but I definitely know I'm not a braindead idiot
your toxic reactions to people debating a tank definitely proves your terrible social skills in (at least) this environment, so please act a bit more mature because we're still humans behind our computers
1 question tho, how do you look up peoples stats from discord?
yknow what im not arguing over the internet i might be wrong, i might be the toxic one, im getting off this is not healthy for mah brain
sorry for any harm caused
eager sage
I'd argue that AMX 50 100 doesn't need to unload all of the shells in the clip, but rather peek a boom.
last shadow
Idk what is going on but it seems like positive is talking about how it would perform in battle and star is just talking about the theory
But hell I won't join here...
hexed mango
Knew someone when or maybe today keys will be added to accounts?
orchid grove
@frosty oriole Well, between the Bat Chat and 50b, you have 77 battles, and a combined winrate of 33.77%. 77 battles is more than enough to make a judgement.
There are serial AFKs and actual trolls who win more than 33%. Considering that fact, I'm going to treat you like a troll/serial AFK.
@hexed mango WG is working out some glitches in the distribution mechanism, so they'll get the keys to you once they fix it
unique scaffold
@orchid grove I would say tone down the aggression don’t be overly rude but keep in mind he also said both crews aren’t even trained to 100% so make a mental note on that
frosty oriole
tbh, it might partially be me being kinda bad, but i did get a lose streak after a winstreak
considering my fair performance in the tanks before the tier 10, its kinda hard to say im a troll
to assume I'd be able to completely master the next tank in the line in 30 battles each is still a bit farfetched
im only starting to get a bit better in the batchat, and ive gotten a mastery :3
orchid grove
@unique scaffold I only really turned up the aggression after he didn't even bother to engage my logic, and just quoted random stuff in it and literally laughed at it without bringing any sort of evidence or logic to the table
And also, if you check his stats, you'll notice that he probably used a substantial amount of free XPed on both lines, given the relatively low battle counts in the 13 90, BC AP, 50 100, and 50 120, so he's clearly no stranger to golding crews and using free XP, giving me serious evidence to doubt his claims of having very low mastery on his crews.
And even if he is telling the truth, as I said, 33% is essentially troll/serial AFK winrate (heck, even Blue_Rock managed like 44% by literally sitting on the red line corner in spawn), and those are people that are essentially trying to lose, 100% crew or not.
frosty oriole
i dont use gold on tech tree stuff
a 39% in less than 50 battles can easily be overturned
ima head out now, this isnt really going anywhere
also, considering I do have masteries in the batchat and the batchat 25 t AP, that probably means im doing SOMETHING right
@rapid citrus plox its only 50 battles, ill get back to you once I have a better sense of the tank and 100 battles
I only just broke the 90% trained crew a lil while ago
rapid citrus
@unique scaffold
Crew mastery doesnt really affect that much unless its below 85%.( then its actually trash) but above 85% its usable. KIM that most people get 75% crew automatically via purchase.
I may not be the best batchat player but i love that tank. Although its bad in the current meta, im still able to hold my own with it, so this opinion should be quite reliable
And . @frosty oriole statistically speaking, 30% of the games u play are definite victories, likewise, 30% of games are definite losses, the outcome of the other 40% is decided by your actions in battle. So 33% is terrible. It means that u only cause a victory 7.5% of the time. And note that these stats are only superficial. I dont know how u play nor have i seen u play.but just analysing the numbers show that u are terrible
orchid grove
@frosty oriole One of the most notorious trolls in Blitz history on NA, BLUE_ROCK, managed to achieve a 44% winrate, by literally just sitting on the red line corner in spawn in every battle. He is now permabanned for being a troll.
Just keep in mind that even if you think your battle count is low, or that your crew mastery is low, just know that an actual permabanned troll has an 11% higher winrate than your combined 50b/BC.
Yes I know loss streaks are a thing, but that's really only relevant at battle counts that are less than 20. At 77, you're only 23 off 100. In order to be doing better than the actual permabanned troll, you'd need to win 19 of your next 23 battles, and even if you're an amazing player, winning 82% over 23 battles is quite a feat.
But again, let me drive home, that this is just the bar to be doing better than AN ACTUAL TROLL THAT WAS PERMABANNED, let alone an even half decent player that is actually trying to win the game
frosty oriole
bruh, losestreaks are a thing
40 battles really isnt enough to determine much
a troll that probably had A LOT MORE than 40 battles and could average a certain number of wins
I have a 53% overall winrate which is definitely not the worst winrate out there
focusing on a 39% winrate on a specific tank over a small amount of battles, quite frankly, is not statistically accurate
considering I'm actually getting better at playing the batchat, consistently winning 3 games and losing 2 games isnt exactly improbable
ionic kraken
Ok, bought the T92 and so far, I hate it. It's so underwhelming now that I own it. Severely long aim time and reload speed, garbage traverse speeds, garbage reverse speed, rockets have the worst aiming mechanics I've ever seen. Bruh, what the hell was I thinking, these things are total garbo and those who can play them without missing every 4 shots out of 5 really deserve a medal.
Change the ATGM aiming mechanics, cuz it's really dumb how when you aim at the enemy tank and if something gets in the way, like a building or mound, it throws off the missile trajectory entirely. Make it so nothing would make the missile go out of control when it's fired. Reduce the length at how far you can shoot it, but improve the aiming of it, cuz it's seriously irritating to miss potential good shots, cuz a god damn rock made the rocket do a U turn, for looking at it and not having the tank directly in sight.
orchid grove
If you want to talk statistics, if we want a 95% confidence level to calculate a margin of error within 11%, assuming you will play 1000 battles between your 50b and bat chat, we only need a sample size of 74 battles between the 2 tanks.
Translated to English, given the current sample size of ~80 battles, 19 times out of 20, I can conclude that your combined winrate between the 50b/batchat at 1000 battles will be lower than 44%
@frosty oriole
You are correct that this assumes your skill level does not increase, but quite frankly, improving beyond the level of trolling is not exactly an achievement, nor is it an indication of real competence
*2 tanks, both of which are French autoloaders. And this is important because the original debate was on a French autoloader. If you're at troll-winrate levels on those tanks, you can't really claim to have any sort of authoritative, or even semi-informed opinion on them without an absolute buttload of evidence, which you did not provide
frosty oriole
correct me if im wrong but isnt this assuming my skill level doesnt increase as I play these tanks?
these are only a tank or two out of many which I have shown to not have troll-level winrate
*corrected that
I have over 50% winrate on all other french autoloaders (except 12 t, which I played a year ago and haven't played again) which means I'm not completely bad at them and at least have some sort of knowledge
the combined games of all the previous autoloaders definitely exceeds the battles in the batchat and the amx 50b
looking at my mastery count, I have 3 masteries on the 13 90, 1 on the 25t AP, and 1 on the t10 batchat which probably means that, at least in some games, im doing things right
Given, i dont have as much experience with the french heavies, so I will agree, I may not have the best opinion on the previous topic we had
from that, I will step down and have others do the discussing
have a good day o7
teal palm
@ionic kraken
The T92 is probably my favourite tier 9 I’ve had
The speed issues you have are 169% just bad crew/equipment
I feel like if the ATGM aiming could disregard house it would be ridiculous
ionic kraken
@teal palm But seriously, isn't it annoying to shoot a rocket and as soon as you glance your crosshair over a nearby prop, the rocket just decides to ,,Floridaman" away in the opposite direction.