#tank-balance-discussion | WoT Blitz Official | Page 168

teal palm Oct 23, 2020, 12:43 PM

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Ikr

fallow eagle Oct 23, 2020, 1:27 PM

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Buff grille camo

crisp rose Oct 23, 2020, 2:57 PM

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what about fix honor stuff is pretty anoying find people like this one and nothing happen

winged barn Oct 23, 2020, 3:20 PM

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I'm amazed that they haven't sold the keni otsu again

sinful leaf Oct 23, 2020, 3:27 PM

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I find it really ironic that they would sell something as broken as Smasher at Tier 7, but not Ke-ni Otsu. On top of that, they released some broken as heck tech tree tanks in the past, most commonly tanks with paper for armor but had mobility and some kind of broken gun.

austere citrus Oct 23, 2020, 3:28 PM

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When can we a get a medium tank with pretty good frontal armor that can block shots from all tanks. Like an MBT. Like a 140mm hull and nice turret but the sides are weak. Right now its like 100mm on the front, 50mm on the sides and ggs, new tank. @autumn zodiac yes, but more russian. Chimera is boxy as heck. @orchid grove u can lower speed, and dpm. I'm saying add a tier 10 like t54-mod-1(like a tank that has this playstyle)

autumn zodiac Oct 23, 2020, 3:29 PM

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So Chimera?

hardy hazel Oct 23, 2020, 3:29 PM

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why you want the otsu back in the store? 👀

orchid grove Oct 23, 2020, 3:31 PM

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@austere citrus That’s just what T-54 before the nerf was, and it was stupid

Then that’s just a heavy tank 🤦‍♂️

winged barn Oct 23, 2020, 3:31 PM

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I believe you mean HEAT-54

unique scaffold Oct 23, 2020, 4:03 PM

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made WT auf E100 a collectible tank

sudden path Oct 23, 2020, 4:25 PM

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If you want a mbt, go play the centurion 7/1, kpf 70, chieftain mk 6, maybe even the 62a. Those are all mbts in real life@austere citrus
A 30b is a mbt, and it has trash armor as well
The centurion is an mbt because it had a better gun than the patton(90mm), amx 13 75. It wasn't particularly fast, but irl it had 152mm armor. Its gun was so good, it was copied by most nations, including the us, and there's a reason why the cent heat gun is on so many tier 10 meds.

austere citrus Oct 23, 2020, 4:26 PM

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centurion 7/1 has some TRASH armor. Chieftain mk6 is pretty good, 62A doesnt have enough armor. kpf70 is good but at tier 9/10 it gets penned by everything. @twilit crystal a low MBT because MBTs now are usually very low profile, e50m is big box

twilit crystal Oct 23, 2020, 4:35 PM

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e50m?

unique scaffold Oct 23, 2020, 4:36 PM

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If your talking about the L7 gun it became the standardized gun not that because it was “so good” many countries attempted to develop their own guns at the time but settled on the L7 and what are you even saying about the amx 13?

sudden path Oct 23, 2020, 4:40 PM

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The amx 13 was used by the French after ww2, same time the cent was in british service. The l7 was the only gun in the late 50s that was able to be put on meds at the time, and able to take away the roles of tabks like the m103 and conqueror. The leopard 1 used it, Patton uses it, type 74(stb), even the m1 Abrams used it in the beginning. Add in all the mock ups in game, the l7 influenced a generation of guns.
Many countries tried to develop better guns with smoothbores but the early smoothbore guns werent able to compete with the l7. Look at the Israel wars. The centurions gave the Israelis a major advantage over the t54s and t55s of the arabs and it was because of the gun and the fact that the centurion could utilize the terrain with its gun depression

unique scaffold Oct 23, 2020, 4:48 PM

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This is not the channel to discuss this in the abrams only used M68 in its early forms since that was essentially the only gun available and it was upgraded from the base form the shot kal delet was entirely superior to the T tanks in the battle of the Golan heights and the credit goes to the ammunition aswell APDS and HESH which was a big part of L7 in terms of the L7 influenced a whole generation is not the case it had its time but didn’t really spawn any new designed guns besides variants such as the M68 in pattons and type 74 the L44 gets the credit for influencing new guns

sudden path Oct 23, 2020, 4:56 PM

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Most nations either used the russian tanks or the centurion with the l7, m48 with either the inferior 90mm or the m68(l7), leo 1(l7), and to a lesser extent tanks like the type 74 and vickers mbt. The l44 is the product of development of smooth bore guns, the predecessors of the l44 were inferior to the l7, as the t62 115mm proved that early smoothbores were inferior to the l7 that the Israelis used on their patrons and centurions.
M1 Abrams is not appropriate, I'll concede that.

marsh frost Oct 23, 2020, 5:56 PM

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the 140 needs a buff because right now their is literally no point in getting it other than an upper plate that can bounce, but the turret just gets penned by everything

austere citrus Oct 23, 2020, 6:05 PM

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120mm upper hull?

full token Oct 23, 2020, 6:07 PM

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The turret is a bit troll. If you pull out, get the shot and then back up quick, you get a decent chance to bounce. If you sit in the open you won’t bounce much. It’s pretty low and the mobility is better than the T62A

oblique plank Oct 23, 2020, 6:10 PM

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Balance 100

📎 WoT_Blitz_2020-10-22_22-30-15_Trim.mp4

jagged crescent Oct 23, 2020, 6:42 PM

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im gonna throw up

mental pasture Oct 23, 2020, 7:28 PM

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Tier 7 tanks breaking the face of a tier 5 tank, nothing new

wind bough Oct 23, 2020, 7:43 PM

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i still don't get why single shot foch gun is 560 alpha while having +12 seconds reload

quasi badger Oct 23, 2020, 7:53 PM

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opinions on the VK 45.02 A? imo really powercreeped, deserves an armor or firepower buff

drowsy plaza Oct 23, 2020, 7:54 PM

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it is a big med, play it like one

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no it doesn't fit the rest of the line - but

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The alpha is good, and the amor is semi okay against meds - plus the HP advantage and the fact the mobility isn't bad.

winged barn Oct 23, 2020, 8:01 PM

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It needs something. The just play it like a big med arguement could also go for the amx m4 49, except that thing gets gun depression and functional armor. The only good thing about the tank is that the gun is mounted right at the front of the tank. Everything else is just flat out bad.

quasi badger Oct 23, 2020, 8:06 PM

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I can make it work. Got about ~58% wr in it, which is pretty okay. But comparing it to the Tiger II, it's just worse in every aspect for that 2 km/h faster top speed and better turn rate. I'd suggest an armor or firepower buff, because the mobility is very good and I don't want a "heavy" zooming around at 45 km/h or turning like a medium. The Tiger II gets a tier 9 gun, the VK only tier 8 - why not give the tank the same gun as the Tiger?

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Wargaming
I know your not nerfing Smasher ok i accept this much
but AT LEAST nerf annihilator
the Smasher and Annihilator spam is so toxic
its ruining tier 8 even let alone tier 6
for example I'm grinding amx 50 100
Annihilator has
more armor than me
much more DPM
more alpha
and if fires HE will quite literally Annihilate my tank
and this is a tier 8 heavy auto loader struggling to deal with a tier 7 heavy
and dont say its my lack of skill
I have 3000 WN8
I think i know what I'm doing

nimble zodiac Oct 23, 2020, 8:18 PM

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More alpha? Ehhhh

Also AMX 50 100 isn’t that good

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 8:21 PM

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@scarlet fjord get you own smasher/annihilator and stop complaining. Wg wont do anything

dense yoke Oct 23, 2020, 8:21 PM

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If 50 100 is as bad as you say it is. Then give it's 4th shot back. Opinionwise i T6-7 isn't as enjoyable as it was. Played some matches, it was Hell.

unique scaffold Oct 23, 2020, 8:25 PM

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Nah opinion wise that’s just a fact tier 7 is arguably a worse balance crisis than tier 9-10

autumn zodiac Oct 23, 2020, 8:33 PM

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Tier 10 really isn't that bad rn Imo, there are tanks in each class that are super bad for their respective classes, but it's pretty much only one from each class

austere citrus Oct 23, 2020, 8:50 PM

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or just give amx 50 100 350 alpha???

karmic portal Oct 23, 2020, 8:56 PM

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Actually true tier 7 right now is so ugly. Like why is the annihalator such a brain dead tank. Like it requires no skill. And it’s so ugly battles are visually displeasing having to look at it being spammed. I don’t get what wargaming was thinking with this tank. It’s an awful design concept that looks ugly and has such a dull play style and breaks the tier cause so many people have it. I’d rather have them give people a bunch of gold in the pass or an actual cool tank with speed rather than this monstrosity

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 9:37 PM

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@scarlet fjord get you own smasher/annihilator and stop complaining. Wg wont do anything
@meager spruce that's literally solving the problem with shallow-minded thinking
I honestly think the amx 50 100 is balanced
doesnt really need a buff
Maybe a little DPM MAYBE
the problem is the literally broken tier 7 hybrid nation tanks everyone is spamming which are quite literally superior than my tier 8 heavy

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 9:38 PM

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@scarlet fjord WG won't solve the problem... so try to solve it yourself

warm falcon Oct 23, 2020, 9:38 PM

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Idk have played a few games with 50 100 in burning games today no struggles at all
Tbh was very pleasing, has been a while since i played it and i forgot how strong it is, can't wait to stop procrastinating and get Emil 1 (wich is basically 50 100 but less mobility but op armor)

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 9:47 PM

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@warm falcon
i dont struggle that much
but the problem is
whenever we lose
the enemy tanks that are top in dmg are the tier 7 broken hybrid nation tanks
outperforming everything in a tier 8 game
the 50 100 is a good tank not bad its just not designed to deal with literally BS tanks
@meager spruce this channel is for them to see complaints like this for example
they listened to our complaints for ATGM's they might for annihilator
no reason not to inform them

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 9:56 PM

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@scarlet fjord they "sure" listened to the atgm complaining. No.... they didn't... they are still in the game even though the vast majority of the community wanted for them to be removed as seen from the poll. they "sure" listened for the smasher nerf which everyone wanted. Smasher is still the same since release. Good attempt at trying to disprove me tho.

Sure, inform them about the anni. I got to problem with that. But you know wg won't do anything so why even bother

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 9:59 PM

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@meager spruce they nerfed the ATGM traverse which made it MUCH easier to get close enough to them so that their traverse isnt enough to reach u
they nerfed he armor and the DPM as well as the alpha on the premium ammo and the range on it also mobility and penetration on standard ammo got nerfed
if u want a company that wasted MONTHS
or YEARS to prepare a mechanic they just released to remove it from the game
your obviously not aware of how businesses work
they DID listen to us to nerf them and they are now balanced-ish
not broken anymore at least
In fact Vickers is preferred over sheridan atm

austere citrus Oct 23, 2020, 10:04 PM

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i mean i rather use a vickers for tourneys than sheridan

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 10:06 PM

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@scarlet fjord the speed nerf just made it easier to control atgms. Sure the mobility was kind of annoying but that does not prevent atgms to be used from key positions (hill, middleberg; hill, yamato harbor; med croner, canal; etc). Also the entire "armor" fiasco has to do with the tanks not the atgm so don't bring it into the discussion.

"your obviously not aware of how businesses work." Thank you for saying this bcz I was waiting for it. Why should wg nerf anni, when a broken anni will definitelly make more money then a balanced anni?

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 10:09 PM

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@meager spruce people tend to leave the game because of toxic tanks
Like for example Implementing the ATGM system costed Wargaming many players
at least for a long while
and the mobility nerf made it easier for you to dodge or block the ATGM with spaced armor or a track
trust me i dodge and block so many after it got nerfed because i can react to it
Specially in an IS-7 turn your side to it and 99% chance of it being absorbed by amazing side armor or spaced armor/tracks
Annihilator is cheap to get not worth being so broken

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 10:18 PM

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WG don't care. You do realize that or not? They have already implemented the tank. They have already probably earned hundreds of thousands. People are buying the battle pass mainly for the anni. So would it be logical to balanced the anni( the only desirable reward, aka the only reason people buy the whateveryoucallit)? No.... because more players are inclined to buy the bp to get a broken tank than a balanced tank.
Also I doubt you dodge missiles with such ease. I really really doubt it

karmic portal Oct 23, 2020, 10:20 PM

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I don’t mind it being broken. But why is it so ugly. And why does it have such an simple minded play style. It just makes battles look so cheap having to look at this monsterous fake tank being spammed. I wanted to play a tank game, not some weird robot game with these ugly creations

polar stag Oct 23, 2020, 10:26 PM

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Lol just give it a few weeks the anni will be rare again till the crates for the anni come out lol.

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 10:28 PM

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If you hate going against the anni so much, go play tier 9,10. Wow such a simple yet effective solution. @scarlet fjord

📎 image0-3.png

scarlet fjord Oct 23, 2020, 10:30 PM

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@meager spruce nice shallow-minded thinking to fixing the problem
btw best way to grind credits is tier 8
specially when i only have tier 8 premiums as top tier premium tank
and 2
I literally am grinding a tier 8 french heavy tank
"git gud lmao"

nimble zodiac Oct 23, 2020, 10:34 PM

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I bully Annihilators in my Tankenstein, they're not a problem for me

hardy hazel Oct 23, 2020, 10:37 PM

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If you hate going against the anni so much, go play tier 9,10. Wow such a simple yet effective solution. @scarlet fjord
@meager spruce im going to grind my tier 6,7 and 8 in MY TIER 9 AND 10 TANKS!!!
Thx mate, you saved me

meager spruce Oct 23, 2020, 10:38 PM

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@scarlet fjord oh should I feel sorry that there is currently a game mode that you can grind in that doesn't affect stats whatsoever.
Credit grinding ain't supposed to be pleasant or fun
Also I like how you repeat that I am proposing a shallow solution when all you are saying is "balance it" without any damn proposition on how to do that at all. So in turn I will say your solution is shallow

Stop complaining. Its pointless. Wg won't do anything about the tank

polar stag Oct 23, 2020, 10:40 PM

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Lol honestly tier 7 is filled with so many "op" tanks that its kinda balancing itself out. Give it a month or 2 before theres a huge buff for tier 7 tanks and most op tanks arent op anymore

sinful leaf Oct 23, 2020, 10:53 PM

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@polar stag The Vicious Cycle of Powercreep.
(Because WG is unable to balance what's already broken, so buff everything else to the heavens.)
My main problem is with the fact that balancing a broken tank usually involves WG buffing everything around it, causing tanks that haven't been buffed to fall even further behind. I'm not expecting a utopia of perfect balance, because then the game would be boring. But as is, it's unreasonable at Tier 7. IF they "balance" the tank to begin with.

polar stag Oct 23, 2020, 10:55 PM

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Lol u cant truly balance a game like blitz there wi always be op tanks and underpowered tanks.

dreamy oar Oct 24, 2020, 12:16 AM

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I’ve been thinking of a buff for tanks and I want to know your opinion on it. I was thinking of giving tanks with pen less than 200mm an increase in pen depending on the tier so for example if a tank has 160mm of pen it’s gets increased by 7% if its in t7. It’s mostly aimed at meds and lights but could go for some heavy tanks. I’m thinking of giving the buff starting maybe at t7 to meds and lights but definitely start giving the buff to t8 med and light tanks. The buff will stop at t8 buff can be applied to t9 if some tanks need it, mostly aimed at making stock a bit less painful. Also the tier pen % increase do not stack so if a gun that is at t7 is also in t8, the gun will only receive a 8% and not a 15%. What do u guys think. Is it too much or is pointless since stock is meant to be painful to get players to spend money on gold to convert to fxp

autumn zodiac Oct 24, 2020, 1:42 AM

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Isn't the entire point of Calibrated shells to do this basically?

minor minnow Oct 24, 2020, 2:27 AM

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^^^

spiral nest Oct 24, 2020, 2:51 AM

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Rebalance the T-44-100 when? It is so underrated in this game

charred tendon Oct 24, 2020, 4:00 AM

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Can the maintenance of tanks be cheaper please.

nimble zodiac Oct 24, 2020, 4:29 AM

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No, only tier 10s and tanks like T49 should be considerably mediocre is maintenance to profit

It's not hard to earn credits

austere citrus Oct 24, 2020, 4:37 AM

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I'll actually run rammer on Leo.

scarlet fjord Oct 24, 2020, 6:43 AM

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@scarlet fjord oh should I feel sorry that there is currently a game mode that you can grind in that doesn't affect stats whatsoever.
Credit grinding ain't supposed to be pleasant or fun
Also I like how you repeat that I am proposing a shallow solution when all you are saying is "balance it" without any damn proposition on how to do that at all. So in turn I will say your solution is shallow

Stop complaining. Its pointless. Wg won't do anything about the tank
@meager spruce they literally know how to balance the tank
i dont need to tell them
because the entire gun is broken just nerf the gun
and as the person above u said thanks to you he will now grind his tier 6 7 and 8 tanks in tier 9 and 10 i thank you for the info as well
and i keep saying shallow minded thinking cuz ur doing it in every message even right now
FOR EXAMPLE
now u said the current game mode doesnt affect ur stats
ok what happens when the game mode ends? what then?
and 2ndly maybe i want to play pubs?
its an option its supposed to be playable in pubs thats what the game is about
again this is why i say shallow-minded thinking
you dont have the mindset "yo lets resolve the problem" your thinking "yo this thing is broken we cant do anything about it stop crying"
the only way u can solve problems is when u talk to someone about the problems that needs to be solved lol

latent snow Oct 24, 2020, 8:53 AM

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The annihilator really is not OP

winged barn Oct 24, 2020, 10:30 AM

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It has way too much damage output, but in tier 7, this is sadly seen as normal

unique scaffold Oct 24, 2020, 10:31 AM

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I just realized something not only is it 2 tiers lower than KPZ 70 it literally has more alpha (the burst damage combined) than kpz and more dpm than it while being even more mobile

dense yoke Oct 24, 2020, 12:14 PM

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640 alpha heavy tank at tier 9 that has mm with tier 8s?

meager spruce Oct 24, 2020, 12:22 PM

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@scarlet fjord you aren't forced to grind tier 6,7,8 tanks at this very moment. You realize you can wait a little bit and then grind them because in like 2 weeks from now when the annihilator hype will have died down, you will not be meeting them every battle.

full slate Oct 24, 2020, 12:42 PM

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@meager spruce are u sure 'bout that

meager spruce Oct 24, 2020, 12:43 PM

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@full slate Im not certain, but its the best we can hope for, because deep down you know wg won't change the tank

scarlet fjord Oct 24, 2020, 1:08 PM

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@meager spruce it will still be a problem
Like Smasher is still a problem way after implementation

meager spruce Oct 24, 2020, 1:08 PM

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@scarlet fjord true. The anni is a problem... a big problem which wg won't do anything about

drowsy plaza Oct 24, 2020, 1:20 PM

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Play tier 9/10 and it’s not your problem.

nocturne mauve Oct 24, 2020, 1:23 PM

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What if people want to enjoy their tech tree tier 7s

drowsy plaza Oct 24, 2020, 1:24 PM

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There are still a slew of OP tech tree tanks in 7.

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But let’s be honest tier 7 has been a broken tier for years.

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Ever wonder why WG doesn’t put out balance charts for 7?

noble quail Oct 24, 2020, 1:34 PM

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What if people want to enjoy their tech tree tier 7s
I enjoy my T20 in T7, Untill the Annihilators showed up

Speaking of the T20, it kinda needs a buff, same with the Pershing

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 1:43 PM

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Underated tank: Comet, has 3.4 sec reload. 160 average ap damage. Kinda sht pen, best against lights and other meds, decent armor. Good mobility and gun depression/gun supreesion. Great fir closw combat were you can out perform the enemy tank and rain shells on them like a machine gun, 2800ish dpm. Thoughts on the tank?

hardy hazel Oct 24, 2020, 1:47 PM

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Bean machine gun

dense yoke Oct 24, 2020, 1:57 PM

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Played once y5 elec bis(based on comet) to grind e75ts, realized t7 was hell.

frosty oriole Oct 24, 2020, 2:01 PM

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i liked the comet but back then i found it pen to be pretty bad so I sold it
thinking back its a pretty solid tank

orchid grove Oct 24, 2020, 2:05 PM

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Comet is super bad honestly. The mobility is good, but not good enough, and 160 with such low alpha is painful to play with, especially when coupled with the pretty bad gun handling, so it doesn't snapshot well. Having to stop and aim to hit for some stupid 160 damage shot with the poor armor on the Comet is just frustrating. Poor pen also means you have to spam the gold too, and when you do, 135 alpha is horrific, and the one advantage on the comet, the DPM, disappears.

Honestly, there's really no reason to ever play a Comet when you could either play a Bulldog (which is basically a Comet with more mobility, gun handling, and light tank camo) or any number of broken tier 7's like T29 or something

spark gorge Oct 24, 2020, 2:16 PM

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I really don’t get how wargaming managed to make the annihilator this broken. You’d think they’d have learned their lesson after the smasher thing

last summit Oct 24, 2020, 2:39 PM

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we need an option to have the ammo bar open at all times for ipad, instead of having to open it at the start of every battle. Having the open and shut function on the ammo bar wastes space of my screen, i’d rather just have an option to have it open at all times so theres 3 boxes on the ammo bar rather than 4 (one box to close it again) this would be very helpful for me as i have to stretch my thumb to get to the HE shell, would be alot better if one of those boxes were gone bringing the shells closer to the right side of the screen

sinful leaf Oct 24, 2020, 3:09 PM

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The only good tech tree mediums at Tier 7 are ones that have been buffed. Any Light Tank will do better simply because they have the mobility. LTTB for example has excellent mobility plus an 85mm gun with good DPM. Basically makes the Y5 ELC bis pointless to play. Comet is just painful, reverse speed is they very thing that gets you killed the most if you don't position yourself carefully. And like with many tech tree tier 7 mediums you end up having to load the gold all too often, and it doesn't help anything that you're in an odd tier for matchmaking either. The Comet's prammo pen is even often lackluster against tier 8 heavies, aside from a certain few like IS-3(which can still easily bounce thanks to angled pike nose), and T34.

craggy kayak Oct 24, 2020, 3:11 PM

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Mad games got very boring after many tank nerf

hardy hazel Oct 24, 2020, 3:23 PM

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And then you have the panther 1, stupid frontal armor, pen, accuracy and dpm, it deals 160 per shot but that thing is crazy fast, so why the hell do you play the bean machinegun if you can play something even better?

drowsy plaza Oct 24, 2020, 3:25 PM

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The Comet used to be OP, back in +/-2 it could massacre tier 9 heavies. Now it’s a shell if it’s former self.

full slate Oct 24, 2020, 3:31 PM

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@full slate Im not certain, but its the best we can hope for, because deep down you know wg won't change the tank
It will never happens, be cause people enjoy playing this tank

charred pollen Oct 24, 2020, 3:47 PM

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why did you ruin mad games by nerfing so many tanks abilities

jagged crescent Oct 24, 2020, 4:04 PM

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T-34-1 is still a puncher tho

turbid smelt Oct 24, 2020, 4:21 PM

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why do people think Anni is op?

grizzled sleet Oct 24, 2020, 4:24 PM

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I'd look up a YT video, I'd tell you but I haven't played it

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 4:42 PM

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I still the comet is decent on pc when fighting against lights or mediums. i have about 2k average damage on it.

uneven otter Oct 24, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Congratulations on ruining tier 7 by making it dominated by broken premium tanks galore and like 4 op tech tree tanks. You finally put the nail in the coffin with the annihilator. Incredible job WG, it’s not like we told you to stop years ago.

hardy hazel Oct 24, 2020, 5:28 PM

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I still the comet is decent on pc when fighting against lights or mediums. i have about 2k average damage on it.
Blitz and pc are 2 diferent games

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 5:56 PM

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Blitz and pc are 2 diferent games
@hardy hazel You can play blitz on computers. And I just noticed the comet has better dpm then the fv301 even with gun rammer.

spark gorge Oct 24, 2020, 5:56 PM

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@turbid smelt The annihilator is OP mainly because of the gun. Same deal with the smasher, except the smasher is WAY more op and can one shot many tier 6-7. however, the annihilator does have more armor compared to the smasher.

hardy hazel Oct 24, 2020, 5:59 PM

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@hardy hazel You can play blitz on computers. And I just noticed the comet has better dpm then the fv301 even with gun rammer.
@narrow temple ooo thats diferent, i do play blitz on pc because i cant do anything in my phone, but yeah comet is good but just because of it speed and its dpm, everything else is mediocre.

dense walrus Oct 24, 2020, 6:24 PM

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@narrow temple Comet is a great example of why raw DPM is meaningless

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 6:31 PM

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@narrow temple Comet is a great example of why raw DPM is meaningless
@dense walrus The comet is useless against heavies but when engaging lights or meds it crushes, that's what keeps it balanced-ish. You've just gotta know how to play it right.

hardy hazel Oct 24, 2020, 6:31 PM

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<!748620563106365541> Comet is a great example of why raw DPM is meaningless
@dense walrus kran is also a good example

safe rapids Oct 24, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Wow this discussion pains me the Comet is so fun to run

dense walrus Oct 24, 2020, 6:36 PM

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@narrow temple "You've just gotta know how to play it right" is such a tired old excuse. The Comet doesn't even do that well against meds and lights, the mobility isn't good compared to them, and the gun isn't snappy enough.

formal vale Oct 24, 2020, 6:39 PM

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The Comet just doesn't have enough pen to be viable. Take the T23E3 as an example, I don't have to run CS to pen tier 8 tanks and can use Rammer instead to maximize my DPM. Sure the Comet has 2° more gun depression and a better turret, but I'd take the E3 over the Comet simply because of its pen. It allows you to be much more flexible in the positions you can take.

unique scaffold Oct 24, 2020, 6:40 PM

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(Not to mention e3 reverses at 30kmh)

sinful leaf Oct 24, 2020, 6:41 PM

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An LTTB who isn't straight up driving their tank like a madman can easily crush a Comet. The Comet is British casemate TD pain, in the form of a medium tank. The Comet's gun doesn't have enough pen to be viable against anything that doesn't have paper or cardboard for armor. And when it sees tier 8 tanks, it's literally crushed like an insect under a thumb. At least Y5 ELC bis has more mobility...

karmic portal Oct 24, 2020, 7:15 PM

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Wargaming’s really got lazy with the annihilator. They didn’t even try to make a unique and fun tank, just made a smasher that deals the damage in 3 shots instead of 1. If they were that desperate for cash they might as well just have sold the smasher for 5 bucks and be done with it, just kill tier 7 off and not beat around the bush about it

mental pasture Oct 24, 2020, 7:22 PM

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@sinful leaf
Do I have to say that T23E3 have better precision, slightly faster reload, an armor that is quite hard to HE, more gun depression, better max reverse speed, better effective power ratio and even better credit coefficient/repair cost?

All Y5 tanks are pointless

sinful leaf Oct 24, 2020, 7:23 PM

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Y5's were free, so eh. The Tier 6 and 5 ones aren't literally unusable but the Tier 7 one is. Saying that all of them are pointless wouldn't exactly be correct though.

coarse harness Oct 24, 2020, 7:25 PM

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The aim time on the Comet is just painful

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 7:35 PM

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Lol, ive caused everyone to agree on the fact comet needs a buff.

dense walrus Oct 24, 2020, 7:36 PM

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no one said it needs a buff. we are all just telling you that you are wrong

jagged crescent Oct 24, 2020, 7:38 PM

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i think it needs a buff but i dont know what to buff

minor minnow Oct 24, 2020, 7:41 PM

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Pen/aim time or mantlet armor, if I can put some input in. It has the DPM, and the largest problem with the tank is the pen, and the mobility is enough to get it around to the sides, but I have to agree that the aim time it has is just painful. Maybe take .5-1 seconds off the aim time and it’d be much better, but I don’t think broken

narrow temple Oct 24, 2020, 7:49 PM

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I never said anything that could've been wrong. I just asked for peoples opinions then put mine in. But if its horrible then so be it. I'm done talking.

jagged crescent Oct 24, 2020, 7:53 PM

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drop a clan tag and watch them change their opinion real quick 😏

grizzled sleet Oct 24, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Lmao I was gonna put some of my own input then I see the final message. Nvm I'll crawl back to my hole

unique scaffold Oct 24, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Technically their original “opinion” was “you gotta play comet right for it to work” which applies to every tank so

frosty oriole Oct 24, 2020, 8:52 PM

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the y5 t-34 is actually a really good tank iirc

jolly galleon Oct 24, 2020, 8:56 PM

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Algum brasileiro ai?

coarse harness Oct 24, 2020, 9:01 PM

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The Y5 T34 is the worst of the bunch tier for tier imo

autumn zodiac Oct 24, 2020, 9:03 PM

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It actually has armor compared to the other ones and 10° of depression

sinful leaf Oct 24, 2020, 9:11 PM

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I think the Y5 Firefly is best tier for tier out of the three. Y5 ELC bis struggles immensely whenever it is uptiered, because even against most tier 8 mediums you are forced to load prammo, killing your DPM. It also just struggles to do damage in general because it has one of those pew pew cannons that lack 155+ mm of pen.

winged barn Oct 24, 2020, 9:13 PM

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They y5 elc has pathetic alpha on its apcr (120). All of the other 160 alpha guns have 135 alpha on their gold. This is a massive problem on a tank that needs st get spammy with gold

frosty oriole Oct 24, 2020, 9:53 PM

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thats why i think y5 t-34 is good

it has good all around stats on firepower, handling, as well as very good speed
the penetration is on par with other mediums of its tier so really its a good tank

dense yoke Oct 24, 2020, 9:59 PM

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I've played the y5 elec bis the most, but Y5 FIREFLY is the best in the y5 series. Y5 ELEC BIS It has similar problems to Comet. Mainly when facing a heavy. I am quite dissapointed that you need to load alot of gold to be able to pen some tanks. But lets see the whole picture here. Y5 series was free. So lets be thankful for that.

mental pasture Oct 24, 2020, 10:12 PM

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Y5 Firefly is basically a slightly worse CromB, but can't fight a Panzer 4 Schmalturm

polar stag Oct 24, 2020, 10:58 PM

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The y5 firefly was free the bromwell wasnt

dense yoke Oct 24, 2020, 11:45 PM

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Disagree. Y5 Firefly could be used in Tournaments (and does fine in there). Y5 ELEC BIS also could be used to grind event tanks (like e75ts, as you could get 3rd rate award very easily).

polar stag Oct 24, 2020, 11:45 PM

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Lol just be grateful that wargaming gave u free tanks. Idk why, u guys complain if they dont give u free stuff, u compalin if they give u free stuff. Lol what do u actually want?

full slate Oct 25, 2020, 1:06 AM

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Nerf Annihilator. Really it became unplayable in tier 7. Just nerf his reload time, dispersion, turret traverse speed and remove the consumable who boost his mobility. Why Annihilator have this consumable and not other hybrid nation tank? That litteraly st***

nimble zodiac Oct 25, 2020, 1:08 AM

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Haha funny shoot lower plate tank

full slate Oct 25, 2020, 1:18 AM

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@nimble zodiac you are a clown lol go away

nimble zodiac Oct 25, 2020, 1:20 AM

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That's great, but at least be specific about how far you'd want the Annihilator to be nerfed. For all I care, it's a tank I'll bully in tier 8 and execute normal heavy tank killing protocol in tier 7. It doesn't present an excessive threat in battle so let the player adaptation period last

nocturne mauve Oct 25, 2020, 1:20 AM

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I actually do see why people have issues with that tank. It has insane turret armour and a great gun

Everything is better top tier so it can’t be used in an argument

winged barn Oct 25, 2020, 1:25 AM

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It's very broken top tier, the only thing that holds it back against tier 8s is the pen.

spark gorge Oct 25, 2020, 1:27 AM

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my specific nerf I want on the annihilator would probably be a shell damage nerf or something.

full slate Oct 25, 2020, 1:28 AM

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At least, just nerf his reload time and his turret traverse speed. You cant even circle him with a LTTB

@spark gorge Oh yeah, they should nerf his average damage too. And the problem is they given a tank really really really OP (even broken) for a cheap price. (only 10$) And this tank will be spammed for ever.

teal palm Oct 25, 2020, 3:17 AM

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There are a lot of things that make no sense on Annihilator

spark gorge Oct 25, 2020, 3:22 AM

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that’s true

jagged crescent Oct 25, 2020, 3:24 AM

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the alpha def needs a nerf

flat bane Oct 25, 2020, 3:27 AM

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What the oof on a oof did I just read up there 😂. If skills payed bills, you would be homeless.

cinder sage Oct 25, 2020, 3:54 AM

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If the alpha was needed, I could grind t6 in peace. Rn an annihilator can drop my LT down to a one shot with HE

frosty oriole Oct 25, 2020, 4:43 AM

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i feel like in terms of oofing ability, smasher is still stronger because of the HE and HEAT pen

karmic portal Oct 25, 2020, 7:28 AM

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I actually do quite well in the y5 elc bis. It’s like a comet but faster

fiery dagger Oct 25, 2020, 8:09 AM

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But with worse everything other than a small p/w ratio difference.

winged barn Oct 25, 2020, 8:58 AM

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The really bad alpha on they y5 elc apcr is crippling

tribal lodge Oct 25, 2020, 12:36 PM

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🌮

dense yoke Oct 25, 2020, 1:16 PM

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I am not sure, but i feel that you can kinda he them (frontally)

muted lava Oct 25, 2020, 4:42 PM

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KpfPz 70 need 640 dmg alpha

hardy hazel Oct 25, 2020, 4:50 PM

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yep, tier 7 is stupid now, can wg consider putting tanks like lycan in terms of balance as rewards for this kind of event?

Strong but not op

dense walrus Oct 25, 2020, 4:51 PM

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Lycan is pretty strong already.

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 5:16 PM

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honestly, i rather have an armor buff for turret/upper glacis for the kpfpz 70 and 8 degrees of gundepression than the 640 alpha even though 640 alpha would be cool. So like 150mm upper plate, (same lower plate), buffed turret. and 8 degrees rather have 640 alpha.

fiery dagger Oct 25, 2020, 5:35 PM

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No, it doesn't need to become another brainless heavy. It teaches you how to trade smart, while not being that blatantly forgiving for your mistakes. It's fine how it is.

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 5:42 PM

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doubt

winged barn Oct 25, 2020, 5:44 PM

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Doubt your doubt

drowsy plaza Oct 25, 2020, 6:49 PM

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The KPF can’t get much of a buff because some buffs would make it broken OP.

jagged crescent Oct 25, 2020, 6:52 PM

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change to ap shells?

minor minnow Oct 25, 2020, 7:13 PM

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That’d indirectly buff the pen wouldn’t it? Like through shell normalization

fiery dagger Oct 25, 2020, 7:27 PM

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Yup, exactly:)

scarlet fjord Oct 25, 2020, 8:31 PM

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buff 183 armor profile to make it viable frontline
or buff top speed and acceleration to allow it to flank better so it can HESH someone more comfortably by keeping up with the frontline tanks
or buff the dispersion factors
specially on traversing the turret and tracks
ONE OF THESE will make the 183 viable again
Go

jagged crescent Oct 25, 2020, 8:34 PM

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No
No
No
Absolutely not.

dense walrus Oct 25, 2020, 8:36 PM

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I can’t be the only one that likes the 183 best when it isn’t viable, right?

sinful leaf Oct 25, 2020, 8:44 PM

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lmao no, 183 is fine as is

muted rampart Oct 25, 2020, 8:49 PM

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183 should get some buffs but definetly not any super big ones, because we Don t want old 183 to come back

fiery dagger Oct 25, 2020, 9:00 PM

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183 stays how it is, unless it's removed. Definitely no buffs.

unique scaffold Oct 25, 2020, 9:03 PM

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@minor minnow the normal round has worse pen than the E75 iirc

full token Oct 25, 2020, 9:07 PM

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183 exists as a tank to be bullied when seen, which is nice

winged barn Oct 25, 2020, 9:27 PM

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Give it it's old armor, and nerf the accuracy to hell

scarlet fjord Oct 25, 2020, 9:34 PM

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toxic
it needs buffs learn to deal with the truth

unique scaffold Oct 25, 2020, 9:38 PM

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Right where it belongs

📎 image0.png

flat bane Oct 25, 2020, 9:53 PM

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Poor 183 :(

muted rampart Oct 25, 2020, 9:55 PM

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183 deserves a traverse speed and engine Power buff or accuaracy buff (maybe lower it down by 0.02)

drowsy plaza Oct 25, 2020, 9:56 PM

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The 183 deserves nothing other than sitting in the corner

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You cannot balance the alpha and pen it has for Blitz.

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So either it needs those attributes changed and then the platform the gun is on can get a buff, or it can stay in the spot it’s in.

nocturne mauve Oct 25, 2020, 10:04 PM

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Same thing with the KV-2

unique scaffold Oct 25, 2020, 10:10 PM

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No that’s making it more prone to camping and you do know there’s a literal mass believed myth Russian heavies hit more on the move then they do aimed in right

pulsar dune Oct 25, 2020, 10:13 PM

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well the 183 is sort of similar to the grille in a way that it has no armor and the best strat in it is to camp and stay as far from the enemy as possible while being able to hit it although unlike the grille it has not that good of speed and i agree that it’s power to weight ratio or some other engine buff can be increased and possibly even a way to become not useing rng as a clutch

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 10:15 PM

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Just make the speed t28 speed. Same for traverse. Quite simple but buff other stuff

pulsar dune Oct 25, 2020, 10:23 PM

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i disagree with you if anything the speed is what needs to be buffed not the gun/armor

coarse harness Oct 25, 2020, 10:26 PM

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^^^
Nerf the HESH dmg to around 1100 and give it better p/w ratio
The pen is fine since it has HESH as prammo

drowsy idol Oct 25, 2020, 10:26 PM

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rip wz113gft tho it didn’t deserve to be that bad

dense yoke Oct 25, 2020, 10:27 PM

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yall forgetting that if 183 didn't exist, then heavies would've avoid a 1000 damage bullet. Jg/183 are balancing heavies hp.

unique scaffold Oct 25, 2020, 10:29 PM

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Jg is the balanced one 183 is not what’s your point

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 10:30 PM

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The 183 really does need a buff - and people seem to forget the effectiveness of HESH is greatly reduced/nullified by spaced armour.

It currently is unable to hit anything unless fully aimed.

They should give it a slight reload increase, and cut down the dispersion factors and aiming time - then see how it gets on. But at the moment it is by far the worst performing TD and it is completely underpowered

drowsy idol Oct 25, 2020, 10:36 PM

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why not make 183 have his pramo shell as ap with higher pen and around 700 alpha dmg and make the regular he 1300 but with like 105mm pen. something like a ho ri but with worse dpm and mobility

winged barn Oct 25, 2020, 10:36 PM

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You dont really have to aim that hard with AP. it's not like the ap gives you 3k dpm to work with or anything. It's when you miss the HESH weakspots and hit for 400 that makes it suck. It's a perfectly functional tank, it's just people trying way too hard to use HESH

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 10:39 PM

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make the 183 have 215B armor but nerf speed and nerf alpha for HESH, or legit just remove HESH

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 10:45 PM

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@drowsy idol - the idea of having different nations is they have different chracteristocs. British tanks have HESH - that is high pen HE - for top ammo - but the trade off is that it has less pen then HEAT or APCR - hence that is the balance.

dense yoke Oct 25, 2020, 10:55 PM

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@unique scaffold My point is 183 and jg (mostly) balances heavies (hp) with their high alpha shell

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 10:56 PM

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The problem is that it is not very mobile - and has weak armour - thus you have to usually fire from long range - that makes its HESH ineffective. @muted rampart It has poor dispersion how it is - and its that what means you end up having to shoot from long range -n as if you try shooting something moving torwards you at speed you will miss. Your recomendatuions will make it more of a camper.

HESH makes these tanks Skill Based - because its so unpredictable. It's HEAT what turms a tank to Noob-based - because all people do is shoot heavies frntally relying on pen. HESH gives far less penetration.

You only have to look at the FV215 183's results stats to see how weak it is - its a joke that they've lewt it get like that.

However, clearly the T11E03 and the Foch are OP and need a nerf.

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

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no e3 and foch no op

spice gazelle Oct 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

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I have a VI Jackson tank & V/IV Panzer. Anyone know if the JPanther has any weak spots? Tracks? Turret? What is the best ammo to hit it? Regular shells? HE or Composit

minor minnow Oct 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

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@spice gazelle Lower plate is always a good bet, if you can’t pen frontally or can’t reach the lower plate back off and get around it as best you can

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

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@austere citrus - how can you say that - looks at the stats? Foch needs to have reduced hull traverse - E3 needs reduced pen and alpha. If you want them ledft alone then FV183 needs faster re-load, aim time, and lower dispersion.

Then see how it gets on - but WG shouldn't nerfed the tank so it performs so abysmally now.

mental pasture Oct 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

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The only buff that 183 deserve is become a collector tank, so Badger can become tech tree

narrow temple Oct 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

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Agreed

distant river Oct 25, 2020, 11:09 PM

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The 183 can simply not be buffed with 1300 alpha. Knock that down and then you can start buffing it, but not before.

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 11:10 PM

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@steel apex if u nerf e3, then its gonna be worse than t95, its not even that op. Just use Heat or pen lower plate or circle it the traverse sucks. Second the foch is a mobile carrier. its balanced and fair and fun. u shoot 560 wait a few seconds and than bam another 560 and reload. it aint even op lol.

minor minnow Oct 25, 2020, 11:12 PM

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The only buff that 183 deserve is become a collector tank, so Badger can become tech tree
@mental pasture @narrow temple everyone knows that won’t/can’t happen. The thousands of people that own it are gonna be mad as hell unless they get full compensation for what they paid for it

mental pasture Oct 25, 2020, 11:19 PM

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Compensate with the sell price in gold and gg

Badger fits much more for AT line than 183, even o WOT the Badger takes 183 place

minor minnow Oct 25, 2020, 11:25 PM

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And what about the people that spent like 20k gold on the tank?

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 11:26 PM

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@austere citrus - look at the stats - it is by far the best performing TD - so it needs to be nerfed - or more appropriately other TDs (such as the 183) need a buff. @minor minnow - just making it a collector tank isn’t going to address the problem of its vastly inferior performance- is it?

austere citrus Oct 25, 2020, 11:27 PM

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@steel apex if u give E3 354mm of frontal armor... (not effective)... ill be down for a speed nerf.

lunar niche Oct 25, 2020, 11:29 PM

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@steel apex 183 always had the worst WR among tier x TD. Nothing has really changed except avg dmg. No other td hits harder than 183.

steel apex Oct 25, 2020, 11:36 PM

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@lunar niche when it first came into the game it’s performance was better. Also I fail to see why, just because it’s previously been underperforming that it should remain so? I actually agree that the Badger was logically the one that should be in the Tech tree - but it wasn’t done that way. What WG could do is swap - and give everyone with a Badger the new improved FV215 183 with more powerful HESH and better gun handling. Remember there are are number of hard hitting TD’s - and a lot of them have solid armour - whereas the FV doesn’t

dense walrus Oct 25, 2020, 11:38 PM

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would be great if everyone just stopped talking about switching the Badger and 183. It is clearly not going to happen.

distant river Oct 25, 2020, 11:40 PM

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Best solution for the 183 is creating a super tort and removing the 183 from the tech tree and making it entirely unobtainable. Then nerf the HESH to the floor or at least make it unable to ruin games and offer 7.5k gold for selling it. All of a sudden the 183 isn't common (except when everyone grinds for it when it's about to be removed), previous owners get the option of keeping it or compensation, and when the 183 does appear it isn't broken 🤷‍♀️

No. Buffing. The. Alpha.

flat bane Oct 26, 2020, 12:06 AM

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I have 183 just for the sake of owning it, I don't even play it anymore lol.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 12:09 AM

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Best solution for the 183 is creating a super tort and removing the 183 from the tech tree and making it entirely unobtainable. Then nerf the HESH to the floor or at least make it unable to ruin games and offer 7.5k gold for selling it. All of a sudden the 183 isn't common (except when everyone grinds for it when it's about to be removed), previous owners get the option of keeping it or compensation, and when the 183 does appear it isn't broken 🤷‍♀️

No. Buffing. The. Alpha.
@distant river how much do i have to pay for this to happen?

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 12:10 AM

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@distant river clearly, as it’s the worst performing TD in the game it isn’t ruining them - unless it happens to be on your side. As has been pointed out the ‘balance’ with HESH is it has much less penetration then heat and APCR and is also much less predictable in performance. Also the number of shells the 183 it carries is a joke. The game should have varied tanks in it - that’s what makes it interesting- and it’s a shame that you can’t address the current statistics in your answer - especially as I seem to recall that you were berating someone else for not using them.

unique scaffold Oct 26, 2020, 12:11 AM

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Reading the suggestions some of you have said makes it slightly understandable why wargaming doesn’t listen to the player base

wise dirge Oct 26, 2020, 12:15 AM

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^

mental pasture Oct 26, 2020, 12:18 AM

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^

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 12:19 AM

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^

@steel apex You don't seem to understand what ruining games means. It doesn't mean by performing too well, in this case. The 183 ruins every single game it's in by creating a stagnant atmosphere that ruins what blitz is about for 13 other people. The jagE100 is interesting without being game breaking. The 183 takes this to the extreme. It is a tank purely for noobs to feel good and perform awfully in, and has no place in blitz.

whole flower Oct 26, 2020, 12:19 AM

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i think they should just take out tier 10 that will fix the problem

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 12:28 AM

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There we are @distant river - trying to make yourself sound superior. Clearly the 183 isn’t game breaking - and as it’s extremely difficult to play really isn’t for noobs - unlike say the IS7 which hasn’t got any weaknesses from the front other than the lower plate. Unlike others with their easy pen hatches etc - hence why it’s such a favourite for re-rollers (you know the type I’m talking about I’m sure). Still- it’s nice that you’ve now demonstrated your own lack of understanding of statistics- as well as plain English - I’m sure @fossil marten will take note.

glossy niche Oct 26, 2020, 12:29 AM

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YO GUYS I HAVE A AWSOME IDEA remove the freaking 183

unique scaffold Oct 26, 2020, 12:31 AM

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Dont bring grammar into this as it’s irrelevant is7 is literally more prone to frontal penetrations due to the pike nose and is a favorite of inexperienced players because anyone who isn’t experienced wouldn’t know to aim for the pike nose when it’s angled which already shows your base knowledge and no 183 is utterly terrible this is a fact it is game breaking being able to delete in tanks health to 1/2 in an instant this creates fear in the enemy team and can stall matches but the moment the 183 misses an entire flank can collapse it’s not how easy it is to play it’s how rewarding it is 183 is mind Numbingly easy to do damage in

lunar niche Oct 26, 2020, 12:31 AM

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@steel apex Okay lmao. 183 was more brain dead than IS 7 or any other tanks before its nerf.

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 12:36 AM

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ngl i dont know why 183 is broken. when i play against it in a medium i just circle it and since it aint like the WT, it wont be able to hit me.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 12:50 AM

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I mean, most mediums and TDs have +- 2000 hp, this mean you only need 2 shots to take out one tank in the game, and is not funny to lose half of your hp from only one shot in any situation, also i dont think you just go and move freely in front of a 183, not even heavys do that because nobody wants to lose 1/2 or 1/3 of its hp, let alone get ammoracked full HP.

Sure ppl just mess their shots because they are or too greedy using HESH all the time or simply dont knowing how and when is better using it, thats why it has low wr, not because it needs a buff, but ppl just went "big damage tank is good because i can do big damage" and then get pranked by themselves because they dont know how to use it correctly, and when they do they feel like a pro player doing 4k damage when all they do were stay in a bush and just shot 4 shots in a 5 mins long battle, so yeah, it doesnt need a buff

Tell me if im wrong in something

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 12:54 AM

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id rather use an E3 than a 183. 183 has no camo and gets targetted. and most tanks outdpm it anyways

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 12:59 AM

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@unique scaffold errrhhhh- pike noses are more noob friendly as you don’t need to know anything about angling - but thanks for the ‘base knowledge’ comment - although I think anyone who is experienced would aim for it when it’s angled towards them. However, all it needs is a sniff of cover to protect its lower plate and then it becomes extremely problematic. There’s loads of tanks that can take half the life from others - and any decent medium driver could easily defeat the 183 @hardy hazel the only way you’re going to lose half your life if you get full HESH pen. The majority of the times that just doesn’t happen- and there’s a lot more tanks in game now that have spaced armour. The 183 has weak armour and is fairly unmanoeuvrable. Even if one does take half your life in one shot then it’s never going to get a second shot into you because you’d easily kill it, it have gotten to the kill zone, before it can get a second off. If you want to complain about 1-shot kill tanks - then you should be complaining about the KV2 or Smasher - which have armour as well as OP guns. @lunar niche thanks for your enigmatic response - enjoy’lol’ing’ in the corner 🙄 However, it seems to me the intention to have these balance stats is to try and balance tanks of different types and characteristics out with each other. At the moment those stats are demonstrating that the 183 is performing significantly below par.

mental pasture Oct 26, 2020, 1:02 AM

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Have you ever noticed that Annihilator's HE is 122mm but the cannon is 80mm?

#

All the 3 barrels are the same calliber, 80mm

All them shoot 3 80mm AP, 3 80mm APCR but the HE is literraly thicker than the cannon

Quantity of cannons =/= calliber bro@austere citrus

It's like a revolver shooting a .50 ammo

Bruh he deleted the comment

nimble zodiac Oct 26, 2020, 1:19 AM

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Powerful HE perhaps

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 1:28 AM

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No need to load HESH to take out half of my hp if im playing in a medium, light or tank destroyer, a simple AP shell can do the work, it even can ammorack me in a single shot, and what you said proves my point about the greedy ppl spamming HESH all the time, thats why you have problems with spaced armor and thats why you make emphasis in this matter.

Yeah is hard for them to land a second shot to finish me, but you have to take in consideration the fact that there are 12 more players, not only you in any tank vs a single 183 player, i cant just rush it and killing it because there is a team that i need to deal with first, but how easy is it when you have a high chance to get deleted from the game in a simple peek? A single 183 can block one side of the map just by camping in a bush and not even making use of its gun while his team is slowly erasing your team hp because they can push/peek without getting half its hp depleted by a single AP Shell or 1/3 - 1/4 of their hp taken because of a non penning HE shell, so yeah, lets make it more easy to play, that way ppl can mess each others game just because a single tank on a team...

Also i do complain about smasher and kv 2 and i always will do it until them get the nerf it deserves

And no, 183 is not performing bad because its trash, but because the ppl playing it are the one that doesnt know how to use it @steel apex

If im wrong in something please tell me

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 1:42 AM

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I have 183 just for the sake of owning it, I don't even play it anymore lol.
@flat bane same I ripped it up for like 200 battles and then I got bored

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 1:46 AM

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i support 183 removal because i dont have it and because i can sealclub harder in e3

turbid smelt Oct 26, 2020, 1:52 AM

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noop

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 1:55 AM

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@hardy hazel - yeah, you’re quite right there are other players on your team - so as soon as you’ve spotted the 183 they’ll have a go of taking it as well as you - and it hasn’t got any armour to protect it. If the 183 is as you described then it’s WR would be considerably higher - but it’s the lowest performing TD. So to answer your question yeah you’re wrong . Those stats are not from poor players playing it - they’re from good players - so again factually you’re just wrong. It seems to me the ones who are whining about it are the (few) who don’t know how to play against it.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 2:07 AM

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so, there is no ppl who know how to deal with it but you because you are the only one that want it to be buffed because its under performing, and no, it doestn need to be buffed, if now is spammed even when the tank is trash as you say, imagine when wg finaly buff it, it will become a hell to play tier 10 and 9

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 2:13 AM

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I’ve actually just said the exact opposite. I’ve said lots of people know how to deal with it - and this demonstrated by WG’s Stats what show it to be a poor performer. I’m relying on hard data. You on the other hand are putting forward a fiction - if the 183 was as you described it would be on the winning side a lot more than it is. It needs a buff because the stats say it’s a underperforming tank. So when you’ve got some stats to support your argument that it’s OP and a game changer then I’ll listen - but at the moment you’ve got nothing to support your argument

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Oh, the Alpha on a JP E100 is 800 compared to the 930 on the 183, but the JP has the higher DPM. In case you hadn’t noticed the JP has much better armour. The stats show the the JP has the higher WR and higher average damage - so I trust you’ll now campaign to get that removed too?

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 2:40 AM

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I say all this because you dont understand the fact that it doesnt need to have high win rate or stats to be stupidly broken, and yeah my arguments may be trash but it doesnt mean this tank isnt unbalanced, it is unbalanced in a bad way, this mean it doesnt need a buff, also, the fact that it has lower win rate and damage than other tanks tell me that this tank isnt played as much as any other tank in tier ten by the good players, wg only says "this is the result of the 55-65%wr players, average win rate and damage in "1%" battles" or something like that, they never grab a fixed number of battles for every tank and then calculates the average damage and win rate of those tanks played by 55-65%wr players, so those stats arent the full viwe, just 1% of a rly rly small amount of ppl, so those stats are accurate but only for like 5% of all active players but not for all the server, so yeah, keep this up saying all you want about average wr damage in a tank that was broke from the first day.

About jg e100:
1: It doesnt have a turret
2: It doesnt have stupid HESH as prammo with stupid pen and HE alpha
Thats why JP E100 is way more balanced than 183 for me

nimble zodiac Oct 26, 2020, 2:46 AM

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183 is still hecken fun to play, idc if that stats say it’s terrible

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 2:47 AM

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Remove/nerf the hesh on 183. Then we can start talking about buffs. There will always be the worst performing tank in the tier. And i have no issues with it being the 183

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 2:54 AM

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pantouflee even wants a speed buff for the jg e100 which i support because its slow as heck

jagged crescent Oct 26, 2020, 2:57 AM

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I'd rather buff the dispersion values. The bloom's just atrocious

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 3:13 AM

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jg e100 with e3 speed will be nice, armor isnt even that good on jg e100 so its fair

topaz tiger Oct 26, 2020, 3:14 AM

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E75 + E25 = E100 so it already has the speed of E25 don't complain
My math is superior

turbid smelt Oct 26, 2020, 3:18 AM

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why do you guys take devs stats seriously, they are from cis server which isn't equivalent to other severs performance

183 is completely fine fun tank as it is...
it doesn't need to be replaced, nor does it need any buff... maybe acceleration buff

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 3:22 AM

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^ if we take those stats seriously, can i say mauschen and m46 patton are op and should be nerfed.

dense walrus Oct 26, 2020, 3:23 AM

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M46 kind of makes sense because it is a high floor high ceiling tank. But neither of them is over performing as much as the 183 is underperforming.

midnight fable Oct 26, 2020, 4:56 AM

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183 is trash. I own it.
Rng is the worst in that tank, and it depends on teams and rng to do somewhat well.
I dont really support removal since it makes people pay for their mistakes (which helps them learn) because it dont really create dmg (unlike smasher and annihilator, which can move up close and destroy tanks). It just waits till someone pushes too far.
But then again, the tank is utter garbage for tier 10.

scarlet fjord Oct 26, 2020, 6:08 AM

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dude
whats your problem
its statistics are garbage stop crying
buffing its dispersion factors wont help the 183 camp better IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM
It will just allow it to aim faster
i'm not asking for the stationary dispersion to be buffed
@turbid smelt yes agree 100% thats all it needs mobility
cuz atm all you have is a gun and NOTHING else

turbid smelt Oct 26, 2020, 6:11 AM

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just give it acceleration buff, so it can keep up with other tanks or get in or out of second line support

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 6:23 AM

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i got a great idea, we keep it trash

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

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I rly think wg should get rid of that stupid HESH and replace it with HEAT or APCR or whatever is called and give its normal HE shell enough penetration to go thru heavys side armor, like 115mm or something like that, problem solved

I know how HESH work, and i think is stupid to have HESH as prammo for that tank, not with that alpha, also the excuse of spaced armor is poor because not all tanks have that much spaced armor, and you should never shot HE type shells to the side of a tank if you have a lot of dispersion/ bad accuracy, you will always land a shot in the tracks

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 6:44 AM

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@hardy hazel - I agree the tank is unballanced - because, as WG's own Stats show its performace is poor. The issue is about 'balance' and hence it is possible to have a tank that is extremely good in one area and extremely poor in other to be 'balanced'. The question is - are WG getting that right with the FV 183 - and the data demonstrates they are not.

Now HESH doesn't have 'Stupid Pen' as suggsetted by you - it has far worse pen them HEAT. The Pen on the 183 for HESH is 220mm compared to 380mm for HEAT for the JP E100. So HESH is difficult to use - because either it won't pen, or you come up againt spaced armour. As for @hearty steeple and your suggesting that HESH is removed - then frankly the way you're heading is rather to a 'noob game' - where you end up with just a single generic tank and its not necessary to learn the different play styles of the nations and their tanks. Frankly that's dull and boring.

In any event the stats - that you and @hearty steeple keep ignoring - demomstrate that HESH doesn't give it an advantage at all - if it did and they got everything else right - its performace would be a lot better.

As for your comment about the JP E100 not having a tuurret - so what? It has considerably better armour to compensate for that. Hence, according to Blitz Stars -ts got a 4% higher survival rate.

pseudo hedge Oct 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

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Better armour hahahahahahah

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 6:49 AM

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You don't need a tank with 242mm hesh that does 1300 avg dmg for the game to have diverse gameplay and unique tanks

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 7:04 AM

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@hearty steeple - well clearly the more different characteristics there are - the more diverse game-paly will be 🙄

@pseudo hedge - errrrrrhhhhhh...yeah 200mm and more sloped is better than 127mm which is more upright. Suprised you hadn't appreciated that.

@hardy hazel - clearly the fact that you say its stupid to have HESH as prammo, and point to its alpha - suggesting its a game changer (as you've previously suggested) - then go on and identify all the resaons it doesn't work - is idewntifying that WG has tried to balance the ammo and its not OP; but needs a more considered playstyle. What makes the 183 performace so poor, is its gun handling charachteristics. You seem to disagree that the 183 is a poor performer - but you can't point to any data that demonstrates - other than come up with statesments - such that HESH has stupid pen - which are demonstarbly false.

pseudo hedge Oct 26, 2020, 7:06 AM

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Sorry if I misunderstood something iw as just laughing at the statement that the Jgd E100 has good armour

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 7:11 AM

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Yeah obviously having a tank that can reliably hesh tanks for 1300 avg or atleast survive the whole game with a gun with that much potential going to make the game more diverse gameplay. There is a reason why 183 got hit by a nerf.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 7:12 AM

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Yeah obviously having a tank that can reliably hesh tanks for 1300 avg or atleast survive the whole game with a gun with that much potential going to make the game more diverse gameplay. There is a reason why 183 got hit by a nerf.
@hearty steeple dont waste your time, he isnt listening unless you have a graphic or something

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 7:12 AM

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I don't understand your point of underperforming tanks
There are lot of op tanks that don't perform as they should because of the players playing them
Kind of like obj 140 and t62a
We know which tank have better characteristics and which one have avg statistics
You really want to buff a tank with 930 alpha ? You'll have to buff other tanks to compensate for it
You might think "it doesn't do much now,it doesn't perform"
It's because it is supposed to be like that
It is supposed to be situational
If anything,they should buff grille camo

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 7:13 AM

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Jagdtiger has better armor than jge100 tier for tier, jge100 should get a lower plate buff, side buff and cheek buff. Jge100 also goes way slower. @atomic summit u should be able to go through the lower plate and cheeks with heat but so many tanks can through it with ap

atomic summit Oct 26, 2020, 7:13 AM

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Jagdtiger has better armor than jge100 tier for tier, jge100 should get a lower plate buff, side buff and cheek buff.
@austere citrus
Why not just make it impenetrable?Tell which tanks can go through the cheeks with ap, except tds with high ap pen or ones that are using calibrated

karmic portal Oct 26, 2020, 7:20 AM

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For the 183 this is my buff idea. Make premium hesh have 1100-1150 alpha, normal hesh keep 1300, and buff the aim time or dispersion or camo by a bit

frosty oriole Oct 26, 2020, 7:26 AM

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i really like jg e100 armor, just a little bit of wiggling can make tanks bounce and the cheeks are small enough at longer ranges

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 7:27 AM

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@pseudo hedge - the statement was that the JP E100 had better armout than the 183. @hearty steeple - errrrrhhhhhh....as as been pointed out - and as you would know if you'd actually used HESH - HESH is not reliable.

@hardy hazel - well you see at some point in life you going to have to prove and evidence what you say - when that miracle happens do let us know - but so far you just don't seem capable of doing that. The fact that you don't seem to like the tank - and seem to suggest that you don't know how to play against it - is no reason for it to not be buffed - when the stats clearly indicate that most people do no how to remove it from the game - hence its incredibly low survival rate of just 35.15% (according to the current Blitz Stars). So no, sorry I'm not just going to accept your unsubstantiated assertions.

@fallow eagle - don't really know if that's a serious question? But just incase it is - if a Tank is OP then it would win more games. The whole idea of why WG adjust the 'balance' of tanks is so that you don;t get ones which are significantly better - nor ones that are significantly worse. The 183 was nerfed after it first came out - and they clearly have over-nerfed it - hence why it is significantly worse than the next worse TD at Tier 10. The Win Rate figures actually give an indication as to how the tank performs overall - and for months that has beep pointing to the fact it signifcantly underperform.

@karmic portal - I think you have to do things gradually. If you alter too many things at one time then it may over componsate - or even makes things worse as you're suggesting both a Nerf and a Buff. Frankly I think the first thing is to give a slight buff in the gun-handling - then wait and see the results of that over, say, a 3-month period.

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 7:34 AM

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Since you like using these charts. Tell me do you think looking at this chart, that 183 needs a nerf or not.

📎 5.10_t10.png

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 7:42 AM

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@hearty steeple - who are you actually talking to? If its me, I've just been using the current version to say it needs a buff - as its performace is currently worse then on the chart you've just shown. Not really sure what the point of your question is (?) as sometimes, like now, WG seem to buff tanks when it seems they don't need it - such as the Jpz4 which is suppposed to be receiving a buff in the next update (although maybe they're trying to anticipate the Annihilator and also the armour buffs that some other heavies have had recently).

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 7:44 AM

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@steel apex again,it is supposed to be situational
For tier 10,a tier which is supposed to be competent and fun to play,balance is a very important factor
You telling us that the stats give us an indication of how the tanks perform,you might ask t62a to be buffed even more at some point because it doesn't perform as well as obj 140
It's really hard to balance a tank that has most alpha in game
I'd say it's good as it is,there's no need of buff or nerf
I agree that wg buffs or nerfs tanks that don't need it,but at the same time,they leave some tanks which don't need it

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 7:53 AM

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@fallow eagle - the current difference between the Obj 140 and T62a is less than 1% (indeed Blitzstars say its about 0.5%) You clearly are going to get differences, which will change over time due to which particular player is actullay playing them (there's a big difference between 55% and 65% player). That difference is small.

The FV183 is significantly worse than the rest of the other TD's. Hence they should try a tweak to the gun-handling to see if it brings it up to a comparable level. Not necessarily better than others - but a lot closer in performance then it is now.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 7:56 AM

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I can do it, but you are too blind and dont understand the tank is broken regardless of what the stats, graphics and wg says, yes, i dont like the tank, only a masochist would like to get hit for 1k damage, i need to do a graphic to show you that? I dont think i need, but if i dont, you will not understand, do you?
If the tank is like this now its because something is wrong and that something is the gun, there is no way to make it balanced if it keeps it stupid HESH with that alpha and pen. Also, that is a montly chart, the past month it performed bad but it doesnt means it needs a buff because of that, the tank is meant to do damage, not to win battles, and is doing well if you ask me.

Also, if you are going to ask me for some graphic or something just save all you have to tell me to yourself, i already have enough of you, so, dont talk to me anymore, please and thanks 👍

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 8:01 AM

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@steel apex there seems to be no point in having a debate with you since you want statistics of all players performing in those tanks to highlight to you that new players play the tank more often then pros
You have your opinion of buffing 183,rest of us don't think it need buffing
It doesn't matter to you how many times its meant to be situational but you don't want to acknowledge it
So don't bother replying back to me

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 8:10 AM

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@hardy hazel - the fact that you haven't done it suggests that you can't. As for your hypiothesis that "I'm too blind" - that's really a classic case of self-projection.

Yes, the tank is 'broken' because its previously been nerfed to hard - and clearly WG do attempt to balance tanks - hence why they keep adjusting them.

The Stats - which time and time again you keep on ignoring - clearly show that the 183 is significantly underperforming - so for your informatioins that identifies it needs a buff.

However, as you say that you 'can do it' - now do so - but I shan't hold my breath.

@fallow eagle - haven't asked for statitcs of "all"players at all - and its rather disengenous that you say I have. As I'm sure you're aware - the stats WG use are not for 'new' players - but ones who are in the 55-65% bracket. It doesn't matter is the tank is supposed to be 'situational;' at all - because it still should be capable of being tweaked to have a balanced WR.

As for having a debate - well in my view if you're going to alledge something then you usaully have something to support that, I've used WG own stats - which according to WG has the 'noob' players removed from them - you and @hardy hazel have failed to reciprocate.

As for me not replying - if someone posts something in response to a post - then I have every right to respond - and will do so. If you want to end this 'debate' I suggest you both take your own advice

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 8:15 AM

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Well have a a nice day :]

raw oar Oct 26, 2020, 8:20 AM

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All stats of all tanks for the whole playerbase are on blitzanalysiz.com

winged barn Oct 26, 2020, 8:50 AM

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Don't mind this underperforming tank being the 5th most played tech tree tank in the last 90 days...

It's not like it's the t28, where nobody plays it because it sucks.

📎 Screenshot_20201026-024831_Chrome.jpg

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 8:53 AM

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There we are @distant river - trying to make yourself sound superior. Clearly the 183 isn’t game breaking - and as it’s extremely difficult to play really isn’t for noobs - unlike say the IS7 which hasn’t got any weaknesses from the front other than the lower plate. Unlike others with their easy pen hatches etc - hence why it’s such a favourite for re-rollers (you know the type I’m talking about I’m sure). Still- it’s nice that you’ve now demonstrated your own lack of understanding of statistics- as well as plain English - I’m sure @fossil marten will take note.
@steel apex Saying "clearly the 183 isn't game breaking" doesn't make it the truth. It ruins every single game it is in as I have described before. It isn't a favourite for rerolls because they tend to know how awful a tank it is. I don't quite see where you think evidence is that I don't understand stats but I'd love to hear it.

fossil marten Oct 26, 2020, 9:06 AM

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@steel apex seriously mate, don’t waste your time with him. He’s one of those ‘I’ve got faults but being wrong isn’t one of them’ types. He slags off other players for ‘crying’ and then blubs like a baby about the 183 😂

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 9:06 AM

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@distant river - no saying "Clearly the 183 isn't game breaking" doesn't mean it isn't - referring to the stats does that which I have done.

Likewise - you saying that it beaks every game - doesn't mean it does - the thing is, you don't demonstrate anything to support that......

So the fact that it is apparently so awful 're-rollers' won't play it - does rather suggest it needs a buff rather than a nerf. There's some logic for you.

@fossil marten - yeah, see his type in game all the time - oh I got a 183 HESH shell in the back of me because I didn't look at the mini-map and see one of the easiest to spot tanks there is - so that must mean the tank is at fault 🙄

atomic summit Oct 26, 2020, 9:06 AM

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Kv-2, smasher and annihilator ruin games too, but who complains.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 9:12 AM

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@distant river sry for the ping, but dont waste your time, its useless

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 9:16 AM

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A bit like your ability to support your arguments @hardy hazel 🙄 - and of course @distant river to use stats to support his argument against the 183. Odd, considering his insitance on some other matters that people were ignoring the Stats...🙄

fossil marten Oct 26, 2020, 9:19 AM

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Kv-2, smasher and annihilator ruin games too, but who complains.
@atomic summit some player from R1SK complained earlier in this thread about them.

dense yoke Oct 26, 2020, 9:21 AM

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As i said before high alpha tanks such as 183/JGE100 balance heavies hp. If 183 didn't exist then heavies would run freely with alot of hp compared to 183 being there. Also everyone is biased towards tanks they own (mostly) in this game. Remember when people said missles weren't OP when they were prenerfed? and guess what? The majority of these people owned atgms. (prenerfed) So ofc wg aren't going to take any suggestions from this channel.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 9:28 AM

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@fossil marten - there are many tanks which have the potential to be OP and ruin the game - e.g. the SU152 - but that's why WG adjust the balance. However, its clearly absurd for people to complain that the worst performing tank of a tier (by a significant margin) needs to be nerfed.

@dense yoke - indeed - it is about balance (and varied game play).

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 9:29 AM

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Ok, no need to be that passive agresive, and as i said before, stats doesnt matter because if you make it to have the same average wr as the other tanks it will still be unbalanced because of the gun, the win rate will be good but the average damage will be out of the graphic chart, if you nerf it to make damage average then the win rate will drop again, thats why i said this tank was made to farm damage, not to win battles, but you still saying the same thing about "stats says its under performing and if you dont show me positive stats your argument is invalid" that is coherent at first but loses everything it has going for it as an argument when you can only counter me that way

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 9:34 AM

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@steel apex Low stats does not mean a tank is not game breaking. Once you have that idea out of your head then try talking about the 183 again. For instance a fictional tank that can insta-ammorack any tank through any cover but with a 2 min reload would be a terrible but completely broken.

And for both of you who seem to think that I am complaining about a tank (which ruins the game for everyone except the one driving) because I can't handle it, that is not further from the truth. I am saying that it cannot be buffed because it would ruin games for everyone further by making them even more stagnant.

You also seem to be oblivious to the point that I do not want it to be nerfed, I want it to be rebalanced. That means removing/heavily nerfing the HESH, and then buffing aspects like the mobility and armour. You cannot just buff the 183 without making tier 10 much worse. You can make tier 10 better by removing the toxic aspects of it, and then improving the rest to compensate.

There is nothing absurd about complaining about the tank that does not fit in blitz at all, no matter what its stats are.

Also the stats in #devs-answers and not something you can rely on for everything, for instance the JPII is hands down better than the ferd but if you blindly rely on those single stats you will think the opposite.

orchid grove Oct 26, 2020, 10:35 AM

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183 is fine balance wise. The problem is that it's just way too popular, and people spam the crap out of it

turbid smelt Oct 26, 2020, 10:45 AM

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big gun go boom

teal palm Oct 26, 2020, 10:49 AM

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Basically 90% of FV drivers
Including me

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 11:03 AM

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@hardy hazel - you seem to confuse laying out facts - as being 'passive aggressive'. I pointed out to you your tendency to self project - on the one hand your'e saying 'have a nice day' - but then on the other saying 'don't waste your time' appears to be examples of this

@distant river - WG are using WR's of the 55-65% Players to 'balance' the tank. What 'breaks' the game is where they is 1 tank that unduly influences the outcome of the battle - which means you either have that tank on your side, or you lose. The 183 doesn't do that - which is shown by the stats - because it has lower pen and is in any event unreliable - and indeed spaced armour and large tracks can nullify it. Hence we'll just have to agree to disagree about HESH - as these factors 'balance' it IMHO.

Regarding your hypothetical tank doesn't exist in game - I'm not sure what purpose you think there is in referring to it? However, its no more broken then having a tank that fires low alpha shells - of say 100 alpha, with a reload of 1esc, which have a pen of 800mm and will cause fire or explosions withing the fisr 10 hits. WG balance high alpha and low alpha guns by a number of ways - one being RoF.

As for your comment on the use of stats - whell these do contrast competely with your ones regrading MM. But as to your coments on the Dev Stats - I'm not just using those but also Blitzstars - which only suggest a less than 1% difference bewteen the WR of the 2 tanks you refer to . I don't rely on 1 set of data where more is available - and if you look at the previous WG stats the 2 tanks were also less than 1% difference.

Those previous Stats also show the 183 performing poorly - so the only way it 'breaks' the game is that if there's one in your team and not the Reds - you are likely to lose.

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 11:08 AM

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@steel apex WG are using all of the stats they have available and common sense to balance tanks, why the hell would they only look at one specific set of stats when they have every stat available??? The 183 does the opposite of that so by your very own definition it breaks the game, but again you still can't understand that there are other ways to break the game.

If you genuinely think the fictional tank I suggested is not completely and utterly broken then please do everyone a favour and stop acting like you have sense, it would clearly destroy the game (but would still be a bad tank, proving that tanks can be game breaking and bad)

I have literally no idea what you are talking about in the rest of that apart fro being completely ignorant to the fact that there are things that can be game breaking without being op. I suggest thinking long and hard about this before replying otherwise you are just going to be stuck clueless and repeating the same incorrect points over and over.

atomic summit Oct 26, 2020, 11:12 AM

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It's lovely how the fv4005 st.2 and 183 in wot pc have 1.7k alpha with HESH

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 11:22 AM

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@distant river - now you seem to be writing fiction. Didn't say that your 'fictional tank' didn't break the game - I said it wasn''t in it - but I gave you an example of how the the antonym of your fictional tank would aslo break the game. So yes, I can understand they are 'other ways' of breaking the game - but its you who apparently can't.

Your statememt that "WG are using all of the stats they have available and common sense to balance tanks, why the hell would they only look at one specific set of stats when they have every stat available??? The 183 does the opposite of that so by your very own definition it breaks the game, but again you still can't understand that there are other ways to break the game." - clearly doesn't make sense at all. You're sayijng that the FV183 doesn't use all the available Stats!? 🤔 For your information the 183 is a pixel tank and I don't believe it 'uses' any Stats.

As for WG having access to the stats - wow only just figured that out have you. Congratualtions on that 👏 Making 'SLOW' progress aren't you.

So I suggest you actually take time to read what people say - but of course, as others have pointed out to you, that something you like to demonstarte you’re incapable of doing, Instead you just rant and rage - crying and throwing your toys out the pram - demonstrating you are incapable of advancing any kind of cogent and logical argument. Sadly its just so immature.

As this section is about Tank Balance then clearly its actually about how OP or UP the tanks - and the stats that you appear so incapable of understanding don't show its OP at all.

So for, your attempt to describe it as 'breaking the game' seems to revolve around you personally not liking its gameplay - or apprently you can't play it very well, or indeed deal with it very well. However, none of this means it has broken the game .

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 11:34 AM

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The ability of a tank to take 75% of a med/lt/td leaving them on a 2 shot and crippling them for the rest of the game and be ready to fire again in 20 seconds is inherently broken. You keep saying it's pen isn't high. 242mm hesh is no joke, you will be penning a lot of tanks frontally. 2 183s in a single match can lock the game down entirely even now.

183 never over performed in wg charts even before its nerf, it didn't fit the game back then and it doesn't now. The rest of the tank stats suffer due to this 242mm hesh that does 1300 dmg. Switch the premium hesh to a proper prammo, then move onto buffing other aspects of the tank.

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 11:36 AM

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It didn’t over perform but with the gun handling and camo rating it had it was nearly impossible to counter

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 11:40 AM

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And i was talking about your "pointing out my self projection" as a passive aggressive act, yes, i see graphics and stuff but i also got hit for 1k damage, so thats not funny for anyone, you dont want to see that but a graphic that says 183 have an average damage and low win rate, and yes, i can wish you a good day and tell someone else to dont try to speak with you because you two are going to waste each other time because you dont understand anything if its not a graphic, also, if you are not wasting your time you can have a good day as i told you earlier, thats a win/win because, you are going to have a nice day and nobody will argue with you pointlessly making it a nice day for the other ppl here and there too :]

winged barn Oct 26, 2020, 11:57 AM

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@muted rampart last time I looked, the jag100 didn't have 220 HE pen

My point is that the jag100 rarely gets to deliver it's HE nukes, while the 183 gets plenty of opportunities

muted rampart Oct 26, 2020, 11:59 AM

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@winged barn it didn t, but the thing that makes 183 a 183 is that massive hesh alpha. If we take it out this tank will be pointless

unique scaffold Oct 26, 2020, 12:01 PM

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183 is fine as is.

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If you want to have the biggest gun in the game it's gonna come at a cost.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 12:12 PM

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@hearty steeple - HESH only has 242 pen if you’re using calibrated. Object 140 has 240mm turret armour as standard- so if it’s enhanced you won’t pen. If it’s moving- like a medium should - not only is it very difficult to hit - but you’ll probably hit tracks are spaced armour. Put simply, if it’s HESH was the problem- then it would be winning lots more.

@hardy hazel - now really pointing out someone self projects isn’t ‘passive aggressive’ at all. If you’re going to try and change what you’re referring to at least make a descent attempt at it 🙄.

@unique scaffold - sure, it comes at a cost - the thing is to get the cost balanced. The numerous stats shows it’s WR is way behind the next lowest TD, so it’s clearly not properly balanced.

dense yoke Oct 26, 2020, 12:13 PM

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Even if 183 gets armor, will the armor be good? Will it be like 215b? Will it compete with jge100? Or will it just get it's old armor?

unique scaffold Oct 26, 2020, 12:14 PM

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There always has to be a worst tank in each category. Personally I think the 183 is the perfect tank for that position

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 12:17 PM

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Idk why anyone would run anything other than calibrated on 183. 242mm hesh is almost as much as medium tank standard pen. For Hulldown 140s we have 326mm AP shells. And you can hesh the ufp of a 140 unless it is angling really well. The pen on the tank is definitely not bad

Well i was asked how would a 183 deal with hulldown 140

atomic summit Oct 26, 2020, 12:18 PM

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@hearty steeple who would play 140 hull down?

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 12:18 PM

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It is passive aggressive if i fell it as an aggession, try to change my mind.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 12:22 PM

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@unique scaffold - yes, there always will be a worse performing tank - but even the worst performing should be comparable.

Whether you like it or not, it is in the game and people have spent time and money grinding it. WG clearly indicate that tanks are subject to balance - not that they would be nerfed to be terrible.

@hardy hazel - I suggest you learn what it means 🙄 - oh, and why it’s been removed as one of the recognised personality traits

@muted rampart - precisely 👍

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 12:31 PM

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I suggest you to learn how to not being aggressive, its a bad habit and can hurt ppl feelings you know?

With that said, please have a day and dont be aggressive 😋 👍

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 1:03 PM

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@hardy hazel - well I hate to say it - but I suggest you look at your own responses above e.g "...you're too blind and don't understand". Really quite agressive - and really not very polite.

But yes, have an enjoyable day yourself 👍

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 1:08 PM

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FV215b(183) doesn't need a buff or a nerf. It is fine as is, the moment the 183 fires and it doesn't have enough cover to reload, it is dead. I have countered the 183 numerous times with mediums before, but only because I either baited a shell from a bad player or I got close enough to wreck them while they're isolated. The main thing about the 183 is that it can chunk out half the hp of most heavies with a singular shell. While the tank is very situational, if you play a double platoon of this tank, you can two shot almost anything and lockdown an entire flank. No one is willing to automatically lose ether 1/2 1/3 of their hp with a single penetration, or in the case of a platoon, risk being destroyed instantaneously. Buffing the 183 in any aspect would just probably defeat the point of the 183 as is, and also make battles take longer. Nerfing it wouldn't help matters either, as it doesn't need one because it already got one.
TL;DR: 183 is fine, it doesn't need a buff just because the winrate stat is 49%, people spam the tank and buffing it wouldn't help matters at tier 10.

unique scaffold Oct 26, 2020, 1:24 PM

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When being able to drop tactical nukes on folks just isn't good enough...

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 1:25 PM

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Buff wz 113 traverse

fossil marten Oct 26, 2020, 1:26 PM

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fv 215 183 conversation is going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
@turbid smelt bit like the reload when you miss in the 183 and mediums are closing in on you 😂

jagged crescent Oct 26, 2020, 1:33 PM

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Conversations always go to this: https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/QMMTrBH0mhi2yV_pqlFIKJWjoUBRgMz3dZ1L2A6f-A4/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/502018644193181706/761273183730008114/759617882505084939.gif

iron lynx Oct 26, 2020, 2:23 PM

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Back then I thought the WZ-113 had bad manoeuvrability, but after driving the Emil I and II, the WZ-113 actually feels like a light tank now.

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 2:38 PM

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Tbh the only problem it has is traverse

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 2:56 PM

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@steel apex I literally told you there are other ways of breaking the game, and now you are saying the same thing and trying to say I'm wrong???

You have just completely misunderstood this part I'm not even going to bother explaining read it again yourself it's not hard.

You are the one who is basing your entire argument off one chart where the 183 does badly, so I suggest not calling other people slow...

Just because you can't understand that a tank can be neither overpower nor underpowered and can still be broken it doesn't mean I am incapable of making an argument, it just means you are incapable of understanding it.

Now I'm going to explain it as simply as possible for you, so try really really hard to understand ok?

The 183 encourages players to camp, through its camo and alpha
The 183 severely discourages any movement from the reds because they cannot allow for every possible spot the 183 is in
The 183 can do ~500 damage no matter what which is a very large punishment, let alone 1300+
These factors all work together to make games excessively slow
Blitz is not meant to be a slow game
Therefore the 183 ruins the essence of blitz by design, and needs to be changed.

Oh and btw when you have 200 games at tier 10 I don't really think you are the best placed person to tell someone with 25x that amount of games at tier 10, with 35% higher WR there, whether they can or cannot deal with the 183...

hearty steeple Oct 26, 2020, 3:24 PM

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If you need special rules for one single tank, doesn't that make it broken and hence unhealthy for the game

real bison Oct 26, 2020, 3:35 PM

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^

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 3:36 PM

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I legitimately think @steel apex has to be trolling, no one could be that clueless as to not understand the issues with the 183

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It never should have been brought into Blitz.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 3:37 PM

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@distant river - they we go again - make false statements. I've previoiusly said I based the comment thaty it needs a Nerf on WG's stats for a period of time - as well as other Stats from Blitzstars for instance.

So you again either demonstrate your remarkable, and frequent used ability, to just invent things - hoping that no-ones calls yoiu out.

As for the argumements that yoiu now advance - not none of them really demonstarte the 183 has 'broken' the game at all.

Most TD's encourage players to camp - see them in bushes most games atv all levels - so is it solely the 183? - answer No.
The 183 easily gets spotted. You know where one is and the Light/Meds can take it out. Again, it would be about DPM/Kill rate - and to compare it to JP and Grille for example it has the worst Kill rate. So again - has it broken the game because of this No
A number of TD's can do over 500 damage; as indeed can some heavies. So again is the 500+ damage factor solely the 183 - No.
Errrrhhhhh....no, Blitz is a 7 minute game, there are very few games where time does not run out. Furthermore, if the 183 is such a killer as you (wrongly claim) then that would make the games be quicker. My experiance is that games run out because:
a) Meds/Lights don't spot:
b) Heavies Camp; or, more frequently
c) You end up with 1 fast tank v I slow
Again, this happens at all Tiers - so is it down to the 183 - No
THis is merely a repeat of 4 - see above for answer
This is merely your conclusion based on inaccurate and, frankly, ill considered and poorly argued opinion.

Actually @drowsy plaza - I think, based on this discusson, you seem to be - your comment isn't really adding anythjng is it?

glossy phoenix Oct 26, 2020, 3:38 PM

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this can be solved by a tutorial aaaaa

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 3:39 PM

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@steel apex 326mm of Pen for AP with 930 alpha - and 242mm pen on HESH for 1300 alpha -- how does that fit into Blitz?

autumn zodiac Oct 26, 2020, 3:39 PM

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I honestly think 183 is well balanced right now. Some might argue with me on this but to use it effectively it actually takes skill unlike KV-2.

It has enough armor to not get punished with HE, the gun is pretty accurate for the size, it can't OHKO.

A good TD driver will pick the targets carefully and know when to and when not to use HESH.

Wargaming could actually replace it. For those who purchased the FV217 is as simple as granting it permanent enrichment. How to solve this problem in the future? Certificates for permanent enrichment via events or crates.

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 3:41 PM

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I only take mine out on Anniversaries now - I'm 4 for 4 in the last ones with 4.8k dmg and 2.25 avg kills. I have around 900 battles in it total, but it’s parked as I think it’s a terribly bad tank for the game. I have slightly more than 15k games in tier X.

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 3:41 PM

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Very few games uh-huh, the whole reason why we don't want TDs buffed at tier 10 is because it would make battles last longer. FV 183 doesn't need a buff, in fact I would be fine with it being replaced with Badger and turned into a collector.
Super Tort works too

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 3:42 PM

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WG will never replace it with the Badger -- we'd be better off with a Super Tort

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 3:48 PM

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Errrhhhh - read the discussion above @drowsy plaza - its been discussed before. You might also take a look at this http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/54361-will-the-183-ever-get-a-buff/

World of Tanks Blitz official forum

Will the 183 ever get a buff? - British Tanks

Will the 183 ever get a buff? - posted in British Tanks: It clearly needs a buff as it is easily the worse performing tier 10 tank. It has bad armour an all round terrible gun apart from the alpha and worse of all is its camo. Just like the newly introduced american lights the...

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 3:49 PM

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@steel apex the ship sailed for a swap when WG sold the Badger.

cobalt pine Oct 26, 2020, 3:49 PM

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@distant river - they we go again - make false statements. I've previoiusly said I based the comment thaty it needs a Nerf on WG's stats for a period of time - as well as other Stats from Blitzstars for instance.

So you again either demonstrate your remarkable, and frequent used ability, to just invent things - hoping that no-ones calls yoiu out.

As for the argumements that yoiu now advance - no none of them really demonstarte the 183 has 'broken' the game at all.

Most TD's encourage players to camp - see them in bushes most games atv all levels - so is it solely the 183? - answer No.

The 183 easily gets spotted. You know where one is and the Light/Meds can take it out. Again, it would be about DPM/Kill rate - and to compare it to JP and Grille for example it has the worst Kill rate. So again - has it broken the game because of this No

A number of TD's can do over 500 damage; as indeed can some heavies. So again is the 500+ damage factor solely the 183 - No.

Errrrhhhhh....no, Blitz is a 7 minute game, there are very few games where time does not run out. Furthermore, if the 183 is such a killer as you (wrongly claim) then that would make the games be quicker. My experiance is that games run out because:
a) Meds/Lights don't spot:
b) Heavies Camp; or, more frquently
c) You end up with 1 fast tank v I slow
Again, this happens at all Ties - so is it down to the 183 - No

THis is merely a repeat of 4 - see abobve for answer

This is merely your conclusion based on inaccurate and, frankly, ill considered and poorly argued opinion.

Actually @drowsy plaza - I think, based on this discusson, you seem to be - your comment is rather vacuous
@steel apex

I think this guy is telling the truth. And I think Fv215b hammer doesn't need neither a buff nor nerf

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 3:53 PM

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Bruh. 183 is the worse tier 10 for a reason and deserves to be one. I don't see how WG would buff 183 without making it too strong. You can buff side armor on hull and turret, and it would make it strong af because you could actually frontline as long as you have cover to use for the front of your hull. Buffing the accuracy of the gun would make it probably broken as heck, and camo buff isn't really an option either, as we all know what happened when FV 183 had good camo ratings. Name a single way you could buff 183 without making it too strong, as if it's gun isn't already strong enough as is.

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 3:56 PM

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If they add super tortoise to this game, i would actually grind the lineup if the tanks actually ahve armor. Like 354mm frontal armor with a decent gun

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 4:01 PM

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@drowsy plaza - hmmm....I think you'll find others are suggesting a swap...as stated by @sinful leaf

@sinful leaf To answer your question, its been discussed in the Forum - which for the avoidance of doubt I didn't take part in. But I think they sum up things quite well there. However, as I said above, I think you start of with a Gun handling buff of reducing its aiming time. You say the gu is string enough - but the results show (on Blitz Stars) that it has a lower Damage and Kill Ratio then the other TD's - so that's suggesting its overall performance is actullay under-powered; not overpowered.

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 4:05 PM

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Again, you are basing this off of stats. You are missing the point that the fear factor of the gun can be abused, and that it can chuck 1/3 to 1/2 of a tank's hp in a single shot. Sure, it's easy to counter after it fires, but only if it leaves itself wide open or isolated, neither of which is what a good TD player would do. As for gun handling, why? Do you really think that a 183 with an aim time equal to that of E 100 or IS-7 would be balanced? You could cut it down to 4.5 seconds with equipment and provisions. No thanks.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 4:11 PM

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Yeah, that's right I'm basing it on the Data - and not just the opinions of those who don;t like the tank.

If the 'Fear Factor' meant that the 183 had an adverse affect on the opposing team - the that would show up in the Data - it doesn't; it the Data shows the 183 dies frequently.

As for 'why' I've just explained that in my previous post - and all your other queries have been addresed previously too.

cobalt pine Oct 26, 2020, 4:12 PM

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Bruh. 183 is the worse tier 10 for a reason and deserves to be one. I don't see how WG would buff 183 without making it too strong. You can buff side armor on hull and turret, and it would make it strong af because you could actually frontline as long as you have cover to use for the front of your hull. Buffing the accuracy of the gun would make it probably broken as heck, and camo buff isn't really an option either, as we all know what happened when FV 183 had good camo ratings. Name a single way you could buff 183 without making it too strong, as if it's gun isn't already strong enough as is.
@sinful leaf

It's gun is strong.and doesn't get penned by HE.
But look at the grille 15 I think it's the tank that needs a buff.it can move fast and have a good DPM and an accurate gun. It needd a penentration buff and HP buff like (to 1900)

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 4:13 PM

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tbh, i think the penetration of the regular alpha should get nerfed to like 280

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 4:16 PM

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The only way I think that buff would be possible is if you increased how expensive it was to play the tank. But even that is an impractical solution, as to why just see an example of what happened when War Thunder "balanced" vehicles with astronomical repair costs.
Now Grille if anything, needs a camo buff.

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 4:20 PM

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Buff is3
It's not as good as it used to be

winged barn Oct 26, 2020, 4:21 PM

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Camo is a mostly useless stat

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 4:21 PM

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@cobalt pine - the hull armour is 51 and 76mm sides and rear; the turrent is 76mm rear - so there's a number of normal HE that will go through that - Object 268, JP E100, VK 72.01 to name but a few.

distant river Oct 26, 2020, 4:21 PM

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@muted rampart It should be buffed, but at the cost of its HESH. You cannot do anything at all to it without hitting it's HESH hard.

@steel apex Most TDs do not encourage camping, the 183 is forced into camping because if its camo so it can cover about half the map. K/d means very little in terms of tank performance btw. A number of TDs can do 500 damage, but that relies on them penning. The 183 only has to hit and then it's ~500 guaranteed. Armour and positioning means nothing because you have to expose. You clearly still don't understand that the 183 ruins the movement of blitz (3rd lowest wins per minute). Meds and lights don't spot, because they are scared of getting hit for 1300 every time they expose to any of the spawncamping positions that can cover half the map. Heavies camp because they are scared of being splashed for 500 or hit for 930/1300 every time they expose to any of the spawncamping positions that cover half the map. This is because of the 183 and partially map design. The evidence is accurate and well considered, you simply do not understand it and seem to be making no efforts to.

And yes whether the 183 fits into blitz or not because of the alpha and pen is relevant 🤦‍♀️

cobalt pine Oct 26, 2020, 4:23 PM

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@sinful leaf

It's gun is strong.and doesn't get penned by HE.
But look at the grille 15 I think it's the tank that needs a buff.it can move fast and have a good DPM and an accurate gun. It needd a penentration buff and HP buff like (to 1900)
@cobalt pine

If not when an E 100 shoots you (with HE) -1200 and then a STB-01 shoots (using HE) and then BOOOM

It need a penentration boost because it's the tier X TD with lowest penentration. It can only pen an E 100 in front (without using HEAT or APCR) by shooting it's underpart in front even though it have a good aiming time if E100 is a good player he will cover that part then😩

spark gorge Oct 26, 2020, 4:25 PM

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this channel is a war zone ☠️

I really don’t understand how apparently a tank can be so underpowered but overpowered at the same time

real bison Oct 26, 2020, 4:25 PM

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all because of one 182.9mm cannon

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 4:25 PM

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183 should get a burt nerf and side nerf...

autumn zodiac Oct 26, 2020, 4:25 PM

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E 100 HE has 960 HE alpha

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 4:26 PM

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I don't find the penetration a massive pain on grille because I just use the mobility to reposition whenever needed. Now, the main problem with Grille if you intend to snipe is the bad camouflage ratings. if a heavy is within ~220m of you, even with camo net, you will get spotted if you fire.
Otherwise if you intend to play it as a second line support to use peek-a-boo tactics it is fine
I don't mind the prammo being nerfed on 183 in exchange for a buff.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 4:31 PM

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@distant river - a lot of TD's do camp. Again, just staying your opinion as if its fact really isn't going to work.

However, a quick look at Armour inspector and putting 183 Hesh on a turrent of an IS7 - no pen, damage starts at 213. Hit in in the side damage starts at 286.

So, clearly you aren't 'guaranteed 500 damage at all. Being factual isn't really your strong point is it 🙄

As to your " The evidence is accurate and well considered, you simply do not understand it and seem to be making no efforts to" statement - you haven't actually provided any evidence - you just state your opinion reagrdless of its accuracy - clearly you simply don't understand the difference between evifdence based on recorded data - and your erroneous opinion - but can't say I'm suprised by that.

nocturne mauve Oct 26, 2020, 4:35 PM

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I remember being hulldown in T-62 and the dumb damage of the 183 still did 500 splash

real bison Oct 26, 2020, 4:37 PM

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I mean the T-62a doesn’t have the luscious curves or thickness of the IS-7’s

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 4:37 PM

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If you smack spaced armor, of course it won't do much damage. If you shoot the top of the turret on a IS-7 however, you will easily do 500-600, you can try the same in E 100 and do about 200-300 damage. If you hit an armor plate that has a raw value of 240mm, it can still do damage, just not much if it's really well angled.
Edit: If I end up facing an E 100 I usually load HEAT. The DPM of grille is pretty high to begin with, so it's not a huge loss. However, you can sacrifice gun rammer for calibrated, but I don't believe this is worth it. If I can whenever I reposition, I will try to sneak a shot into a weakspot. Such an example would be the E 100s rangefinder structure that is, a small bar atop a turret. If they aren't using too much gun depression or aren't above you, you can shoot there. Not that it is an easy shot by any means

cobalt pine Oct 26, 2020, 4:38 PM

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I don't find the penetration a massive pain on grille because I just use the mobility to reposition whenever needed. Now, the main problem with Grille if you intend to snipe is the bad camouflage ratings. if a heavy is within ~220m of you, even with camo net, you will get spotted if you fire.
Otherwise if you intend to play it as a second line support to use peek-a-boo tactics it is fine
I don't mind the prammo being nerfed on 183 in exchange for a buff.
@sinful leaf

I don't understand how your reposition helps on penning maybe his armour disappears when you reposition. LMAO🤣

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 4:43 PM

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@nocturne mauve - it may have done - but its not 'Guaranteed. Splash damage (again according to Armour Inspector) indicates it starts at 317 - but could go up to 611. The fact is that 500 damage is not 'Guranteed' as wrongly claimed by @distant river Another example is hitting the front plate of an Object 263 may only get you 156 damage

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

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An oddly specific scenario but ok

fiery dagger Oct 26, 2020, 5:00 PM

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KAS, You are now just nitpicking anything you can.

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:02 PM

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That is the absolute best an E100 can do against a 183 - if it isn’t using max depression it’s a full pen - and if it is like what I show it’s easily HESH’s for 500

📎 image0.png

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It front ammo racks IS-7’s and can pen pretty much anything.

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@steel apex are you not running CS on yours?

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 5:12 PM

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@fiery dagger - no, I'm pointing out incorrect statements. Huge difference bewteen 156 damage and 500.

@drowsy plaza - yes - this is showing calibrated shellls - Errrrhhhhh.....Firstly you're showing AP hitting a very small weakspot berween the turret and the body - hence why its not showing splash damage but 100% Pen.

However, here's HESH with calibrated shells - the 'best' (lowest Hit) the E100 could hope for is 224. Plus the E100 may be running improved armour which would improve things even more

📎 62BC1E29-C676-48BC-8B1C-FDDC2136FB1B.png

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:21 PM

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@steel apex why aim for thicker effective armor?

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Splash the turret

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Your cutting 100+ dmg off aiming there.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 5:22 PM

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@drowsy plaza - and out if interest - here's the worst the E100 can do to the FV183 in the same position using HE and Calibrated - note 720 min damage up to 1200.

E100 has 2,750 HP; the FV215 185 has 1,800.

📎 A4335CA0-ED18-4CB9-91AB-51CCC0410E83.png

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:24 PM

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Again why shoot when it’s optimized against you? The 183 has a glacial reload, you throw your advantage when you shoot known low pen shots.

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And why try to compare the optimal E100 shot on the 183 versus a terrible shot on the 100 from the 183, you’re cherry picking and it’s clear.

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I mean you showed a hull shot versus a turret

📎 image0.png

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The least you could have done is a optimal angle E100 with a semi decent 183 shot

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But I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative.

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 5:29 PM

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You are literally nitpicking every single thing that's bad about the 183, it sacrifices a lot for a big gun for a reason.

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:30 PM

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Like when it get a distracted 100

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📎 image0.png

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Playing the 183 well takes some common sense and patience.

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Make the hits count

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Or your just a liability to your team

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 5:35 PM

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@drowsy plaza - because you said it was the minum damage the FV183 would do. Clearly its not. However- here's the mimimum on the turrret from the same angle - 227mm.

I was using the angle you put forwards - so the choice is yours

@sinful leaf - no, Im demomstratimng that the comment - HESH will do a minimum of 500 damage is factually incorrect - there's a difference which you seem not to appreciate.

I'm also demonstarting that HE from the E100 can even pen the turret of an FV215 183 frontally.

Yeah, getting that close to an E100 on a flat side will get you an average of 1300, not so easy to do from a distance

📎 94BD9820-4A96-450B-AC04-5BC602835475.png

rare sleet Oct 26, 2020, 5:39 PM

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183 is a good tank though, its pretty hilarious when you smack someone for 1300 dmg

whole flower Oct 26, 2020, 5:39 PM

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@serene rapids looking mighty cute today buddy

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 5:40 PM

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@steel apex Why would you take such a shot on E 100? Crusader literally pointed that out, if you have a better shot on something else, just take it while the E 100 is distracted angling against you. You are just at this point pointing out situations where the tank is bad. The FV 183 as said numerous times before is a very situational tank.
"deficiency in your cognitive processing" dang, I didn't see that coming.

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:45 PM

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@steel apex seriously you have given optimal shots against a 183 and provided the worst shots at an E100. At this point you’re either trolling or have some sort of deficiency in your cognitive processing.

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 5:46 PM

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@sinful leaf - blimey, you really do find reading hard. The Ange was given by @drowsy plaza who apparently doesn''t know the difference betweem AP and HE.

Yeah - cognotive processing - coming from someone who find its difficult to read - somehow doesnt mean a lot.

As , I've justv explained - its to demonstarte that HE from an E100 can pen the turrent of an FV215 183 - at the same angle fiven by @drowsy plaza - and futher more, that the minmum damage the FV could give to the E100 is considerably less than the minimum 500 that was claimed.

You know, I did post a link to the discussion on the Forum about the Buff/Nerf discussion on the FV215 183 - and you know, having this discussion with you 2 really makes me understand the point they were getting at. Nevermind

@drowsy plaza - youre the one whose trolling - showing AP instead of HESH - showimng the maximum damage where the figuree being discussed was the Minimum

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 5:50 PM

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Ok guys, dont be aggressive

Oof

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 5:51 PM

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r/whydoievenbother
The 183 doesn't need a buff. It requires skill to do well in the tank, and it really doesn't take much to do 4k damage in 4 shots, assuming you penetrate all of them. I can easily name the Grille, which because of its lack of armor, camo, and underwhelming penetration for a TD requires a lot more skill to play.
Edit: I was wondering when the stat shaming card was going to be pulled.

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:52 PM

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@steel apex I showed both options. You just choose to ignore certain ones. I never claimed a minimum of 500 damage, please go back and read what I wrote. You are completely ignoring what many of us are telling you about the 183.

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Okay I get it. I looked you up on Blitzstars. You just aren’t good at the game

steel apex Oct 26, 2020, 5:56 PM

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@rare sleet - because the discussion was about if the E100 could pen the FV215-183 with HE. So, to demsonstrate that there's a picture showing its can. Oh - and by the way its not me, but some others who are suggesting that the 183 shoudl ahve a HESH nerf but an armour buff.

No - I'm not trying tyo show the 215 is undrpowresd by those examples - I'm showing what was said about it isn't quite true.

@drowsy plaza - you showed the AP pen - thinking it was HESH and caliming that it was a minumn 500 damage - what was what the discussion about the miminum damage of HESH would be. That's claerly wrong 🙄

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:58 PM

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@sinful leaf I looked him up to try to understand his point of view. He really doesn’t even play tier X, and when he does he’s bad.

coarse harness Oct 26, 2020, 5:58 PM

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Everyone knows the FV is underpowered yet nobody cares

turbid smelt Oct 26, 2020, 5:58 PM

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cuz it is fine as it is

gleaming apexBOT Oct 26, 2020, 5:58 PM

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dynoSuccess KAS_118#4517 has been warned.

rare sleet Oct 26, 2020, 5:59 PM

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183 is special because of the great Hesh, as i said before If you want armor go play the Jgpze100.. You know that tank exists right? It has armor, it has a slightly smaller gun and it doesn't have the amazing hesh the 183 has. Oh yeah and it doesn't look like you have much tier 10 experience because by looking at your stats I bet you think chieftain is underpowered, and fv4202 is underpowered aswell. Tier 10 is much different than the lower tiers you play

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 5:59 PM

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@steel apex Don’t confuse my comments for others and then claim I made them.

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 6:01 PM

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Okay, okay, the show is over now, right?

Finally 😩

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 6:01 PM

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Yup

warm falcon Oct 26, 2020, 6:02 PM

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I don't think so, sadly

gleaming apexBOT Oct 26, 2020, 6:03 PM

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dynoSuccess KAS_118#4517 was muted

warm falcon Oct 26, 2020, 6:13 PM

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Anyway, what's the next balance subject?

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 PM

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Annihilator?

No, i had 183 for 3 or 4 lifes starting now

muted rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 PM

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Fv 183

karmic steeple Oct 26, 2020, 6:17 PM

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What changes should be made to m48 patton to change it from just a worse stb to something unique and viable?

open marlin Oct 26, 2020, 6:33 PM

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@warm falcon Is7

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 6:34 PM

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I mean IS-7 isn't meta rn but I don't think I want it to become another IS-4

fallow eagle Oct 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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Buff wz113 traverse

karmic steeple Oct 26, 2020, 6:36 PM

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Nope no one wanted the patton discussion rip

hardy hazel Oct 26, 2020, 6:38 PM

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I dont have patton and i meet just a few of them like 2 or 3 if i remember correctly

glossy phoenix Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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Sure getting hit by a 183 is annoying but you shouldn’t be getting hit so often you find it a real issue
Look at the enemy team, notice there is a 183, and don’t take a leisurely stroll in front of any bushes

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 6:51 PM

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I think you missed the train xd

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 6:51 PM

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@karmic steeple I’d buff M48 dispersion. It’s second worst for Meds only med that’s worse is the WZ-121. Yes the Fatton has good modifiers for movement- but it’s barn door accurate to start.

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 7:09 PM

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Sure getting hit by a 183 is annoying but you shouldn’t be getting hit so often you find it a real issue
Look at the enemy team, notice there is a 183, and don’t take a leisurely stroll in front of any bushes
Is it accurate to say if you get hit by a 183 a good part of the time it’s your own fault?

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 7:16 PM

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Yes, that is accurate. If you knowingly drive out into the open in front of a spot or bush where it's probable that a 183 is camping, the fault is entirely on you.

glossy phoenix Oct 26, 2020, 7:21 PM

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If you complain about it you must be doing it frequently which means you don’t even learn

jagged crescent Oct 26, 2020, 7:21 PM

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Considering how large the Patton is,
I'm thinking of either a turret cheek buff (minor tho)
or an aimtime boost. Boost either its exposure survivability or reduce the exposure it has to take

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 7:38 PM

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WG had said the Fatton was getting a turret armor buff - but when?

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Honestly I don't think its the aim time -- the 30 B and FV4202 have much less reliable turrets and worse aim time - but they have significantly better base dispersion than the side of barn Fatton, so they can pop up and connect a lot easier in less time.

muted rampart Oct 26, 2020, 7:44 PM

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Imo fatton should get the best aim time and gun handling at t10. This will make this tank at least a Little bit unique in terms of playstyle

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 7:46 PM

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Hmm... You mean to make it more accurate than T-62A, which already has a laser for a gun?

coarse harness Oct 26, 2020, 7:48 PM

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Imo the Patton should get a turret buff and maybe some ufp buff as well and give better gun handling to the FV4202

dense yoke Oct 26, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Vicker light, nerf?

meager spruce Oct 26, 2020, 8:04 PM

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WG had said the Fatton was getting a turret armor buff - but when?
@drowsy plaza even if it gets the turret buff stb will still dominate it

sinful leaf Oct 26, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Actually I think Vickers Light is fairly balanced, though I would be fine with a minor camo nerf. If anything, Vickers CR needs a nerf, that thing is broken, and much stronger tier for tier than Vickers Light. @dense yoke
Tell me about it, I literally managed to facetank tier 8 heavies and stock tier 9 tanks with the turret. And this is a tier 9 Light Tank!

Vickers CR isnt OP
Are you sure about that? It literally makes any other tier 9 light tank irrelevant aside from T92, and even puts some mediums like leo pt a, and M46 to shame. @austere citrus

jagged crescent Oct 26, 2020, 8:05 PM

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The CR turret's legitimately busted. Whole thing is small and the mantlet is immune to almost everything

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Vickers CR isnt OP, its just a good tank that does 440 Hesh

verbal thistle Oct 26, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Wargaming should buff the old mediums in the game
All the new ones have more then 200mm of standard pen
Old ones are just left behind

flat bane Oct 26, 2020, 8:10 PM

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Don't touch my CR 😤

west spruce Oct 26, 2020, 8:13 PM

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im

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 8:20 PM

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@meager spruce Ribble mentioned it on one of the streams - that they where looking at an upcoming armor buff to the Fatton

dense yoke Oct 26, 2020, 8:20 PM

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tds are getting buffed in next update (i think). I am guessing Mediums/light are after that

verbal thistle Oct 26, 2020, 8:22 PM

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TDs are already getting buffed. 7.4 preview is out on blitzhanger
Now of they rebalance mediums. It would be nice

austere citrus Oct 26, 2020, 8:43 PM

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give mediums a nice turret and good gun

mental pasture Oct 26, 2020, 8:50 PM

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Yeah, some mediums/lights really deserve a gun buff, AC IV Sentinel is an exemple

AMX 13 90 is another exemple

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 8:55 PM

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WG had said the Fatton was getting a turret armor buff - but when?
@drowsy plaza correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they buff the region behind the mantlet an update or two ago?

muted rampart Oct 26, 2020, 8:55 PM

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@sinful leaf yes. I want it to have maybe something like 0.23-24 with Full equipment and gun handling like 0.09-0.10

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 8:57 PM

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@minor minnow not on the Patton

coarse harness Oct 26, 2020, 9:12 PM

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@drowsy plaza in 7.1 they buffed a tiny spot behind the mantlet

warm falcon Oct 26, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Yeah, some mediums/lights really deserve a gun buff, AC IV Sentinel is an exemple

AMX 13 90 is another exemple
@mental pasture amx 13 90? Oh hell yeah! It's workable ofc, like every tank but it just lacks something. I would like a pen buff but handling is another good option.

noble quail Oct 26, 2020, 11:04 PM

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Yeah the Fatton needs a buff

I want an accuracy buff if they are not gonna buff the turret

drowsy plaza Oct 26, 2020, 11:30 PM

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@coarse harness thanks. For some reason I only paid attention to the Mk6 and SC mantlet armor buffs.

thick rover Oct 26, 2020, 11:44 PM

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nOoo so no further buffs for Patton :(

minor minnow Oct 26, 2020, 11:52 PM

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For the fprseeable future yeah

noble quail Oct 27, 2020, 12:48 AM

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It's still kinda powercreeped tbh

Not everyone cares about it's strengths (view range)

drowsy idol Oct 27, 2020, 12:51 AM

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vickers

winged barn Oct 27, 2020, 12:54 AM

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As long as the view range is above complete trash, view range is a fairly useless stat

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 1:17 AM

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vickers took patton spot role

plucky pumice Oct 27, 2020, 2:48 AM

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Vickers hella annoying being frontally penned in various mediums

thick rover Oct 27, 2020, 3:14 AM

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I would be happy if Patton got gun buff

noble quail Oct 27, 2020, 3:21 AM

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Yes

Its kinda meh for the tier 10 meta.
Not everyone wants all rounded tank, most want tanks that are the best.

The stb outclasses it in almost every aspect, why get the Patton when there's the STB.
Well because of View range, why get the Patton if there's the Vickers light.

The Fatton is all rounded but it's not the most favoured among the tier 10 mediums since it's all rounded and others have specific aspects that are better than that tank.

That's just my opinion

in conclusion, players want the best, not an average one that goes to the "worst" list

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 3:29 AM

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just give it 380 alpha and upper plate buff.

fallow eagle Oct 27, 2020, 4:17 AM

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Maybe increase it's armor and mobility?
I didn't grind the line when i saw how easy it is to pen regardless of how tough people describe it's turret

jagged crescent Oct 27, 2020, 4:26 AM

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It's all rounded in the fact that it just doesn't SUCK at everything.
In contrast, the STB is SOLID at everything.

noble quail Oct 27, 2020, 4:57 AM

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The M48 is all rounded, but players want the best, and not balanced
And, ramming in an stb isn't good

The M48 has one of the best view range among T10 mts, but the Vickers light showed up

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 5:19 AM

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how about instead of reskinning stuff, we just make tanks play a more specific niche than having like 10 tanks fill the same niche, in basic biology, 2 tanks arent able to fill a niche because one will always be better leading to the extinction of the other(no one using it and being trash) so the new species gotta find a new niche. Like the badger is a unique tank because its a tank destroyer that uses gun depression where there isnt many tanks that fill the role so its super good at that roll. STB-1, Patton, and a bunch of other tanks u just go to the same hull down spot, shoot, shoot, win/lose and repeat. T-22 was quite a unique tank because it had very good side armor so the playing style was different using ur side armor as ur 'front' so i want to say there has to be more unique gameplay rather than the same filling role everyday. Emil 1 is quite unique but most tanks are just reskins of other that are better/worse.

fallow eagle Oct 27, 2020, 5:26 AM

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Yea specialization is more important in the game now then all rounded nature or jack-of-all-trades,master of none

noble quail Oct 27, 2020, 5:28 AM

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Yeah...

Being all rounded kinda doesn't give you a big weakness since you can do almost everything but can't excell at something

Specialist tanks are good in a specific trait/s
But lacks on other things

round bluff Oct 27, 2020, 5:40 AM

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lol wg is vehement against buffing the m48. rather than do something about the m48 being powercreeped by stb, wg nerfs the stb and does nothing to the m48

atomic summit Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 AM

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Nerf the stb? Worst idea

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 AM

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this is what u do, u make m48 into a decently fast heavium. Buff the turret and upper plate, add +1 degree of gun depression. and gg, basically a less armored e5 with more speed.

scarlet fjord Oct 27, 2020, 6:49 AM

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Wargaming can you stop making useless balance changes and actually buff tanks like the Tortoise?
like srsly lol

meager spruce Oct 27, 2020, 6:57 AM

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Under game rules https://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/game-rules-blitz:

2.2.8. excessive use of in-game emoticons.

Like we do not have in-game emoticons. Does that mean WG will be implementing something?
(oops, wrong channel but Ima still leave it here)

Legal Documentation | Wargaming.net

dense yoke Oct 27, 2020, 7:09 AM

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They are going to buff some of the at line in 7.4. I am also hoping they will buff frontline tds hp. @scarlet fjord

scarlet fjord Oct 27, 2020, 7:40 AM

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a good idea on buffing hit points on frontline TD's
but the armor on the tortoise
it was decent in the past before quite literally everything around the tortoise except the tortoise itself was buffed
it was struggling in the past can you imagine now?
the hatch needs to be removed
and the armor profile which can be penned by tier 9 meds with standard ammo on the super structure needs to be buffed
i mean its slow and its armor is meh
the gun isnt even the best the jagtiger's gun and armor and mobility and everything is literally better

round bluff Oct 27, 2020, 7:42 AM

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be careful theyre gonna crawl out and say tortoise is fine and that youre playing it wrong

coarse harness Oct 27, 2020, 7:59 AM

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The supestructure should be at least 250mm effective without angling

dense yoke Oct 27, 2020, 8:07 AM

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You might aswell sell Tortoise if you have Jagdtiger. As he stated Jagdtiger does tortoise job and better. Good armor, good gun, 460 alpha, a bit faster, no hatchet, good dpm.

verbal thistle Oct 27, 2020, 8:26 AM

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The whole AT line is a joke
Except for the tier 5
That thing is a beast

sweet prism Oct 27, 2020, 8:36 AM

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The top speed 20km/hr of the AT line and T28s is joke
Meanwhile premium counterparts like T28 defender and Badger has top speed 30...

dense yoke Oct 27, 2020, 8:41 AM

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Give T28 more mobillty to circle. Or even buff the Armor.

unique scaffold Oct 27, 2020, 9:35 AM

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Buff the amx cdc slightly atleast

scarlet fjord Oct 27, 2020, 10:59 AM

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It's good that wargaming nerfed the AMX M4 54 a bit
but for it to be balanced you still need the
either make iits armor profile crap
or nerf the gun
right now its armor is broken
and the gun is broken
lol
IS-7 gun buffed on everything
with E5 armor profile also buffed on everything
it has same DPM as an E5 but more alpha than an IS-7
its upper plate is 380 effective
and half of its lower plate is 300 effective
only now they nerfed half of the lower plate to 220-ish
nerf the gun for the love of gun
and when its using maxed out gun depression
u cant see the hatches and its turret is unpennable

turbid smelt Oct 27, 2020, 11:05 AM

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isn't it still in super test? why are you making show out of it
they are clearly trying to make it strong balanced prem

scarlet fjord Oct 27, 2020, 11:28 AM

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because i know they are gonna leave it broken and sell it for 500$ on the Christmas event
and then we have to deal with the things at tier 10

turbid smelt Oct 27, 2020, 11:34 AM

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it would be fairly rare if it would be at that price
like t22 were at start

full token Oct 27, 2020, 11:35 AM

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Yea but once they sell a tank they like to leave them untouched and not nerf them. The most likely time for a nerf is before they sell it, not after

dense yoke Oct 27, 2020, 11:37 AM

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yeah just like vk90. It was in the Christmas event (1000$+), but after ~(9-8) months it was sold for less than 100$

hearty steeple Oct 27, 2020, 11:40 AM

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There is still time for it to be nerfed. Since Christmas event will be in 7.5 and that is when it is likely to appear.

I mean the tank is blatantly op and I doubt wg doesn't know that either. I am assuming they are just testing how far up they can push the stats on a tank without breaking the tier. Wg does collect a lot more data than we see

turbid smelt Oct 27, 2020, 11:45 AM

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@full token if that would happen then it would be fair to rack up all pitchforks
not now

scarlet fjord Oct 27, 2020, 12:52 PM

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i mean lets be honest when it entered testing it was a tier 11 heavy not even exaggerating

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 3:31 PM

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but if they are not facing you dead on

📎 A2D6BC1B-9A78-471B-A94B-D6B91924F1A2_1_201_a.jpeg

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and if the side is open

#

📎 1382BDDC-D801-4AC9-A00E-0B7DC367D74D_1_201_a.jpeg

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That is with IS-4 AP

#

Frontally at depression against IS-4 with AP

📎 BEF40F7B-5BFC-4CEC-9579-01C641932BE9_1_201_a.jpeg

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Frontally max dep IS-4 HEAT (CS for all shots BTW)

📎 88629FE7-9CC5-4473-A90F-2542CDDAAFE2_1_201_a.jpeg

round bluff Oct 27, 2020, 3:51 PM

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ok? every heavy has a weak lower plate and sides. doesnt balance out the m4 54

latent snow Oct 27, 2020, 3:57 PM

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With E100, overmatches armour behind tracks ( or any tank with a caliber larger than 135mm )

📎 image0.png

mental pasture Oct 27, 2020, 3:58 PM

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If lowerplate resolved all the problems, then every single heavy would be paper

And that's why not every heavy is paper, lowerplate may be a weakpoint, let's remember that even IS-4 have lower plate, but it doesn't mean that it's armor isn't overcooked

muted rampart Oct 27, 2020, 3:59 PM

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@mental pasture well, maybe not every but most of them

unique scaffold Oct 27, 2020, 5:05 PM

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@fallow eagle and when it is not in hulldown?...

latent snow Oct 27, 2020, 5:06 PM

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If it’s heat it can’t through the tracks?

fallow eagle Oct 27, 2020, 5:08 PM

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You need like 450mm pen to actually hurt it when it's hulldown

unique scaffold Oct 27, 2020, 5:16 PM

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When amx M4 54 will not be in hulldown, it will be ez to pen by prem ammo of the TD wich cannot be spoted because amx is heavy and td have good camo

unique scaffold Oct 27, 2020, 5:31 PM

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so no needto nerf amx M4 54 armor

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 5:52 PM

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why use kranvagn when m4 54 has all of it+speed+better gun+better everything

hardy hazel Oct 27, 2020, 5:54 PM

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because kran is for free

winged barn Oct 27, 2020, 5:58 PM

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Because autoreloaders are op

coarse harness Oct 27, 2020, 6:02 PM

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Not the kran tho

sour comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:20 PM

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Batchat interclip to 2.5 secs rather whole 3

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 6:30 PM

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or just give it 1.5 seconds

winged barn Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

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@coarse harness kran gun is op.

winter sluice Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

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Hellcat and IS-2Sh needs a buff.. IS-2Sh needs armor buff behind the track, it should be 100mm

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 6:40 PM

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Hellcat maybe 250 alpha? And for IS-2Sh, give that thing 140mm upper plate from 130mm, 120mm side armor from 100mm, and 120mm side armor on the turret.

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 8:14 PM

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T-2020 needs a buff. What a stinking piece of garbage in it’s current state- legitimately the worse traits of Russian heavies and no redeeming features.

jagged crescent Oct 27, 2020, 8:15 PM

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no redeeming features.
Idk it does got that juicy reload animations tho 😳

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Would you accept no redeeming game play features 😂

nimble zodiac Oct 27, 2020, 8:21 PM

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The gun amazes me ngl, RuNG be RuNG

I personally enjoy the T-2020, it may not be a big player in the heavy tier 8s, but it can still carry its own weight

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Since the T-2020 is super slow than it's counterparts, it should be considered a tier 8 Russian Super Heavy. Let's buff the upper glacis from 130mm to 150mm, buff sides from 80mm to 110mm and about it

orchid grove Oct 27, 2020, 8:24 PM

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@drowsy plaza Fwiw, the T2020 can actually beat the IS-5 in a facehug strangely enough. I remember 1v1ing some dude who came on here claiming it was better than the IS-5.

Even though he was statistically worse than me, he did beat me in the 1v1 in a facehug. For the rest of the 1v1 battles I played with him from then on, I had to look for places to prop my tank up to be able to point it down onto his hull

jagged crescent Oct 27, 2020, 8:25 PM

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Have you 1v1'd him when there was no face hug?

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 8:26 PM

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📎 image0.png

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I got beat by 43% in a Pershing who face hugged my T2020. I still don’t see how. Maybe I should blame lag.

nimble zodiac Oct 27, 2020, 8:31 PM

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Yo I beat a IS-5 guy in a facehug with the T-2020 once, it was on Canyon, and I think we were the last 2 alive, but anyways, don't use it like a frontline heavy, the armor works sometimes, especially if you wiggle hulldown, but it's a support heavy.

orchid grove Oct 27, 2020, 8:35 PM

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@drowsy plaza I tried that, but it's kinda hard to figure out where that spot actually is in game. Albeit that's probably just me being inexperienced with shooting T-2020s, but still

unique scaffold Oct 27, 2020, 8:37 PM

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I was surprised just how weak the armor on T-2020 was it literally stands no chance when it’s getting circled of death most lights can pen the sides directly and the front

nimble zodiac Oct 27, 2020, 8:42 PM

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Interestingly, Obj. 252U's lower front plate is easier to pen, as well as being larger than T-2020's. If you want T-2020 testing, I'm up for it

winged barn Oct 27, 2020, 8:48 PM

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The 252 has an impenetrable upper plate at the cost of a weak lower plate and random funky armor angles. The t2020 has... uhhhh... an animation... at the cost of all armor

jagged crescent Oct 27, 2020, 8:50 PM

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the 252u has multiple weakspots
the t2020 only has one weakspot and that's the entire tank

meager spruce Oct 27, 2020, 8:55 PM

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@winged barn you see, the animation distracts people to look off of you, meaning there is no need for it to have armor

nimble zodiac Oct 27, 2020, 9:10 PM

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Is the AMX M4 45 trash? Sure it’s pretty lacking, but trash isn’t a term I’ve often seen associated with it

Ok then, T-2020 isn’t supposed to be used like a heavy, again, it should be a support heavy. I don’t struggle very often, and can manage pretty nice stats with it

orchid grove Oct 27, 2020, 9:11 PM

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M4 45 is pretty trash TBH. It's fairly slow, has no armor, and the gun isn't good enough to compensate. It's basically a tier 7 Conq, but with even less alpha tier for tier

dense yoke Oct 27, 2020, 9:19 PM

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I agree, m4 45 is trash. It competed with tiger1 for worst heavy (t7) and yes that was prebuffed tiger1.

safe rapids Oct 27, 2020, 9:37 PM

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I love the M4 45. Great DPM and pen, good speed, and 10 degrees of gun depression. Bullying mediums is really fun in it, and as such it's one of my favorite tanks.

karmic steeple Oct 27, 2020, 9:37 PM

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The t7 heavies got a couple buffs awhile back and the amx was left out of all of it

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 9:39 PM

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Panther I is a better heavy in 7 than the M4 45

fiery dagger Oct 27, 2020, 9:40 PM

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That's sadly all true. Although, It still is a loveable tank, the M4 45😅

dense walrus Oct 27, 2020, 9:40 PM

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it has been untouched for nearly 3 years (besides the heavy buff)

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 9:41 PM

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The tier 6 ARL 44 is a better tier 7 heavy than the M4 45

#

I honestly can’t think of a single redeeming feature of the M4 45. I mean unlike the T-2020 it doesn’t have a cool reload animation.

jagged crescent Oct 27, 2020, 9:45 PM

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gun isnt bad i guess

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 9:46 PM

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m4 45 should just get a 150mm frontal hull armor buff and thats it, tanks sucks at everything so at least make it somewhat decent at frontal armor @safe rapids yea i free xped the tank because it sucked hard

safe rapids Oct 27, 2020, 9:47 PM

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You are overlooking the great DPM, penetration, gun depression, and mobility. Don't play it like a heavy tank and you'll have a blast. TFT the ARL is a better tank but I personally love the M4 45. And the armor is fine. Tanks need to have drawbacks and you can get around the bad armor.

karmic steeple Oct 27, 2020, 9:47 PM

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@dense walrus even at that it got like 50 hp right? So almost useless

drowsy plaza Oct 27, 2020, 10:21 PM

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@safe rapids I kept it around 65% in the grind, but it’s not mobile enough for the fact it’s an easy pen for anyone anywhere. So yes you can get around the bad armor, but it’s not mobile enough to be truly effective while that soft.

#

It needs something to be moderately competitive, either better DPM, decent frontal armor (while would link to the M4 premiums) or more mobility.

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 10:27 PM

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m4 54 has all of that

fiery dagger Oct 27, 2020, 10:37 PM

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I think better mobility would be the most viable option, so it would fit with the line. Or maybe give it an autoloader with 3*225 alpha, 2,5 intraclip, while leaving everything else the same? Just a tought tho, don't crucify me.

nimble zodiac Oct 27, 2020, 10:41 PM

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I think making it an autoloader would be nice to represent the future line, and maybe a more smooth transition to having no armor would be nice, if it were to be solid, I'd say buff to 130mm, around 206mm effective unangled, or less, even 120mm would work a bit as a transition, even keep the turret squishy for the AMX 50 B resemblance, I feel we have a big variable tank to use up on our hands

Also in 7.4 it appears Jg Pz IV is gonna get a big boy buff to the gun, holy cow...

austere citrus Oct 27, 2020, 10:44 PM

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I want a STI-II

coarse harness Oct 27, 2020, 10:45 PM

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Go get it on PC
Gl

plucky pumice Oct 28, 2020, 12:15 AM

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I take it ppl has forgotten this lol, 4K gold to obscure a weakspot. GG devs

📎 Screenshot_2020-10-28_at_12.11.42_a.m..png

dense walrus Oct 28, 2020, 12:16 AM

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P2W

hardy hazel Oct 28, 2020, 12:18 AM

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I need someone to explain this, because im dumb and i dont understand

twin bison Oct 28, 2020, 12:23 AM

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we want know when be nerfer these OP Vicker Light tanks???? When???

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 12:43 AM

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The only thing I see them nerfing is the HE alpha from 440 to 400. Also give the Leopard 1 450 HE alpha. The E 50 M has 450 so why does Leopard have 400.

spark gorge Oct 28, 2020, 12:50 AM

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well the e50m is quite different from the leo 1

minor minnow Oct 28, 2020, 1:26 AM

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I need someone to explain this, because im dumb and i dont understand
@hardy hazel the spotlight hides a cupola

noble quail Oct 28, 2020, 2:15 AM

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The only thing I see them nerfing is the HE alpha from 440 to 400. Also give the Leopard 1 450 HE alpha. The E 50 M has 450 so why does Leopard have 400.
@austere citrus maybe 450 HE will be broken on a Medium tank that has dpm?

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 2:17 AM

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E 50 m has dpm?

turbid smelt Oct 28, 2020, 2:26 AM

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no

spark gorge Oct 28, 2020, 2:29 AM

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i think leo 1 gun is already good enough, good accuracy and reload

sinful leaf Oct 28, 2020, 2:36 AM

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Emil I = AMX 50 100 pushed into complete irrelevancy when compared to it.
I fear the same will happen to BC-25 t when they release TVP...

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 2:37 AM

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BC should get a 350 alpha and 2 from 3 seconds.

minor minnow Oct 28, 2020, 2:47 AM

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It has a 105 right? That’s justification enough

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 3:35 AM

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stb1 is definitely worth all your grind, its super good

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 3:38 AM

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@unique scaffold its good but grinding i dont think is worth. I free xped it. I rather grind the Vickers Light as the line is overall pretty good.

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 3:46 AM

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the japanese medium tank line makes you a better player definitely. It teaches you alot and the whole line prepares you the be the master of the stb1

hardy hazel Oct 28, 2020, 3:55 AM

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@hardy hazel the spotlight hides a cupola
@minor minnow ooh i see now, thanks

fallow eagle Oct 28, 2020, 6:17 AM

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Leo 1 is a great tank
I think the issue is tanks around it are getting buffed much harder

atomic summit Oct 28, 2020, 6:24 AM

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Or the issue is people not knowing how to play it

cunning belfry Oct 28, 2020, 6:26 AM

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no leopard is a great tank to play with it people who doesnt know how play they say that tanks around it are better and leopard useless

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 6:28 AM

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i mean the tanks around it are better like stb1, t62a, e50m, t22, vickers light, m60, and like every other tank. sure it has the most dpm but only by a few hundred. Thats if u run rammer, if u dont run rammer then u only get around 300-400 dpm more than like a wz 121 which has 420 alpha.

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 6:53 AM

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800k i think around that

atomic summit Oct 28, 2020, 7:02 AM

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@austere citrus
Then how do i do more dmg than those tanks in most battles with leo 1?

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 7:06 AM

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thats ur personal stat?

atomic summit Oct 28, 2020, 7:13 AM

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I wonder how people compete in the leo 1. What is good stats for this tank btw, cuz i see 1.6k avg dmg in blitzstars.

coarse harness Oct 28, 2020, 7:15 AM

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Good stat is relative

winged barn Oct 28, 2020, 7:17 AM

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Leo 1 is the best td in the game. Highly accurate, highly mobile, and godly dpm.

Not getting shot is the best armor. You can easily use speed and distance to not get shot.

And about the pen... shoot side armor. It has the mobility to get into useful positions.

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 7:18 AM

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penetration isnt that good, armor is poor, there are better tanks to play.

meager spruce Oct 28, 2020, 7:19 AM

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WDYM pen isn't good, it has enough pen to do a td job.... so what the hell are you talking about. Also in tds you don't need armor unless you wanna go play assault tds like the at series

atomic summit Oct 28, 2020, 7:23 AM

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Pen is not good? Look at the guns of the other mediums. Also who tf uses it as a td except when you are playing in Castilla.

winged barn Oct 28, 2020, 7:29 AM

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tds must camp how about no. Got to a nice place with lots of side shots at long range and just keep pecking away 350hp every 5.5 seconds. And yes, castilla is a great leo map because it encourages that type of playstyle. But every other map can easily be used the same way. Also note that the leo can permatrack. With 350 alpha.

ionic kraken Oct 28, 2020, 8:17 AM

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Nerf Tiger II traverse speeds. That thing is just volatile to deal with in 1v1 situations, cuz it has both nearly invulnerable armor for almost 90% of the tanks it faces, forcing to use gold, but even then you need more than 250mm to pen it, which most Tier 7 and some tier 8 tanks don't have. I tried circling it in an Amx 13 90, but that thing just out traverses me no matter what. Nerf it to be slower, cuz it's legit almost impossible to beat one alone.

unique scaffold Oct 28, 2020, 11:57 AM

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Ah and there ur wrong tiger 2 not as op as u think u need to use ur brain sometimes because i can out do one every time

coarse harness Oct 28, 2020, 11:58 AM

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It's way too mobile with that armor

frosty oriole Oct 28, 2020, 12:27 PM

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buff 13 90, its really underpowered for a tier 8

hearty steeple Oct 28, 2020, 12:35 PM

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Give it a 4th shell and make it more mobile perhaps

turbid smelt Oct 28, 2020, 12:36 PM

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@frosty oriole I found it fun substitute for ru 251

winged barn Oct 28, 2020, 1:00 PM

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It's dpm is pathetic. It's got what, a 20 second reload for 660 clip? And its pen is also pretty bad. It just really can't do any damage.

Its not that you can't do well in it, it's just that if you dropped it down a tier as is, it would probably fit right in.

frosty oriole Oct 28, 2020, 1:04 PM

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ironically enough, I did better in the 13 90 than any other tank in the branch
but its stats are honestly terrible (just compare it to the defender mk 1)

orchid grove Oct 28, 2020, 1:44 PM

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13 90 is a case of terrible gun mounted on an amazing chassis

brisk path Oct 28, 2020, 2:09 PM

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13 90 is a case of terrible gun mounted on an amazing chassis
@orchid grove the track traverse is somewhat lacking tho

meager spruce Oct 28, 2020, 2:13 PM

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The main struggle with the the 13 90 is the god awful elevation that screws you up multiple times per game. Also depression isn't that good either

frosty oriole Oct 28, 2020, 2:27 PM

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DPM damage output are absolutely terrible, the mobility is great, but I'd rather play a higher pentration 13 75 than the 13 90

orchid grove Oct 28, 2020, 2:37 PM

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The DPM is the main problem. The reload is just too long for 3*225. Even if you just straight up added a 4th shell without lengthening the reload, you'd still only have 2230 DPM with double food and vents.

Elevation can be a problem, but you can get used to it, kinda like on the WT

winged barn Oct 28, 2020, 2:40 PM

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I dunno, no elevation off the back half of the tank is very crippling
Wt doesn't need to run around as much. You cant run and gun in the 1390 because of the lack of elevation. Hit a slight bump, and your shot eats dirt

sinful leaf Oct 28, 2020, 2:42 PM

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The reload really is the problem, in the current meta you are vulnerable for much longer than reasonably desirable, and tanks like the Emil I and AMX 50 100 have much more deadly autoloaders that reload their magazine only a few seconds slower.
And yeah, elevation values are also a huge hinderence when shooting on the move over uneven ground, it's really frustrating.

sudden path Oct 28, 2020, 3:04 PM

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At least with the 13 90 you have a bit of punch on the clip, compared to the 13 75, which doesn't. But it def needs something else.
@unique scaffold stb is a bit slow, and the accuracy is just average, but you get a great turret and 10 degrees of gd without giving up other stuff on other tier 10 meds

winged barn Oct 28, 2020, 3:07 PM

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@unique scaffold the back of the stb is HEable by basically everything

All of the meds have poor pen, alpha, and hp pools compared to the heavies.

lunar niche Oct 28, 2020, 3:14 PM

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Leo1 is best at farming damage and thats it.

turbid smelt Oct 28, 2020, 3:18 PM

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4202 is lovely at that

obsidian osprey Oct 28, 2020, 3:26 PM

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All meds at tier 8 need a dpm buff in general; the 13 90 dpm is balanced relative to that mediocre pool of tanks, which is the core of the problem.

WG has set the standard medium performance for that tier at 90mm (225 alpha), 6s reload (resulting in 2250 dpm), with 200mm pen. The exact numbers averaging all 9 tier 8 tech tree medium tanks, all with rammer except the P44 and T69 with calibrated, and the T-34-2 with 100mm (to avoid throwing things off too much), are: 233 alpha, 6.16s reload, 2272 dpm, 199mm pen.

IMO, especially after the heavy HP buff, they should move the average up on reload, dpm, and pen to the following: 5.6s, 2500 dpm, 210mm pen. Certain tanks need more of a buff than others in these areas, the Pershing being the best example, and others like the Indien are already well placed in the gun department but could maybe use a touch up in some other area.

dry condor Oct 28, 2020, 4:15 PM

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Please rework your penetration values I had shot that area near the top left of the upper plate so you can penetrate and it bounced off the tank discussed to show that certain things have really unbalance front alarm her and I should not have bounced is completely gray which means I should be able to penetrate and do damage the armor

📎 image0.png

unique scaffold Oct 28, 2020, 4:17 PM

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APCR TROLL

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Hitskins get really weird up close even though the skin will read as clear theres a chance it still won’t pen and that’s APCR aswell known for being very weak against steep angles

muted rampart Oct 28, 2020, 4:50 PM

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This is why you don t shoot apcr at big angles. This was obvious from the start that the shot like this will bounce anyways when taken with apcr. You should load heat and just go for the turret. You don t even know how much shots like this one i had on my E25 xD. For example in one battle i managed to bounce rear of T69 3 times...

hardy hazel Oct 28, 2020, 4:53 PM

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Well, not everyone knows that, if i see everything clear i will shot and rage if my shell bounce xd

nimble zodiac Oct 28, 2020, 4:54 PM

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Or look at a more direct angle on the upper upper front plate

brisk path Oct 28, 2020, 5:15 PM

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type 59 and chief need buff asap huge tumour,and underwelming guns and a medrocire armour profile or maybe im bad nrm

drowsy plaza Oct 28, 2020, 5:18 PM

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Best thing to do is be familiar with the armor models in tiers you usually play - and your own ammunition characteristics- look at BlitzHangar and Armor Inspector

lucid plover Oct 28, 2020, 5:19 PM

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I can agree with the Tiger II getting some changes. While it's turret is weaker than it's hull (turret is flat and can be penned if you dont hit the gun mantlet), I think the lower plate on the Tiger II should definitely get a nerf since it really doesn't need that to do well. The upper plate and turret armor are just fine imo, and I think it should a small mobility nerf to it's hull traverse. As for tips on 1v1ing Tiger II's, it depends on the tank. If you have good spotting range or concealment, use it to your advantage to spot him before he spots you. The Tiger II has poor spotting range from my experience, and it has a very big profile so it's not exactly easy for it to hide it's weaker turret and hull sides unless it has a good position to do so. Also, the Tiger II's turret is garbage if it's not facing the enemy, so just shoot towards the sides if you can. Stay out of facehugging range and don't get rammed unless you are a tank that excels at facehugging with enough pen to go through it's frontal hull or turret. The 105 has not-amazing gun depression mainly due to the Tiger II's height, try to use that against it if your in a tank with a small profile or your in a hilly area. Keep in mind that the Tiger II's top gun has very good pen and good alpha, with good DPM. That's all I got to say on the Tiger II lol

drowsy plaza Oct 28, 2020, 5:20 PM

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Cupola on Tiger II is a fantastic target if you have a decently accurate gun.

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A 1v1 is a terrible situation to be in, and it all come down to being able to get the most of your tanks advantages against the most of the red tanks disadvantages. A good red will make that hard, while less efficient reds will put themselves at disadvantages easily and be able to be complete farmed.

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 5:23 PM

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Can is3 have a lil bit more hull armor cuz it is a little weak

minor minnow Oct 28, 2020, 5:24 PM

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type 59 and chief need buff asap huge tumour,and underwelming guns and a medrocire armour profile or maybe im bad nrm
@brisk path I can’t give an opinion on the Chieftain but I think the Type 59 is fine as is, I haven’t played in a while so it may not idk

brisk path Oct 28, 2020, 5:26 PM

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📎 unknown.png

lucid plover Oct 28, 2020, 5:30 PM

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@drowsy plaza 100% agree with you, although the Tiger II's cupola is definitely not an easy shot if your either facehugging or at medium-long range unless you have great accuracy (for the medium-long range cupola shot) or your tank is relatively tall and has good gun elevation (for facehugging range cupola shots). I'd say trying to shoot the cupola is best when your in a tank with good accuracy at somewhat close to medium range.

muted rampart Oct 28, 2020, 6:00 PM

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Most of tanks can easly go through all Tiger 2's armor profile using prammo. 240 and you can pen upper plate, 250-60 and you pen it litterally everywhere not counting gun mantlet, sides of the turret and hull sides at side scrap angle

drowsy plaza Oct 28, 2020, 6:24 PM

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@brisk path The Chieftain T95 got a buff a while ago - and it was definitely playable even before that if you where used to playing the pre surgery T110E5 . - the Type 59 is always near the top fo the tier 8 med balance charts - it dropped to 3rd the last update - but definitely does not need a buff -- frankly I think that when it lost +1/-2 Pref MM when the game changed to +/-1 that it should have gotten either the RoF buffed to its original +/-2 state (initially it was introduced as a +/-2, albeit only for a few folks who got it before the store sale) or a minor pen buff due to seeing a lot more tier 9, and no tasty tier 6 anymore -- but the fact is it does exceptionally well still, and WG hasn't been willing to look at a buff due to that.

dense yoke Oct 28, 2020, 8:15 PM

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@muted rampart wait so if i want to crack tiger 2 armor in a tank that doesn't have ISU penlike normal shell, i need to spend prammo? Or i could pen cupola on tiger 2 turret, which is pretty small. (Assuming the tank you have has good enough accuracy enough)

muted rampart Oct 28, 2020, 8:20 PM

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@dense yoke yes, bacuse it s the role of super heavy tank to have strong frontal armor

dense yoke Oct 28, 2020, 8:30 PM

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@muted rampart that reminds me of E75 TS. What a wonderful tank. It is a mix between E75 and E100 (kinda). But it doesn't have such a crazy frontal armor. But it is still pretty good. Big turret, that GOLD can be used on. Big lower plate that is pennable with normal shells (not GOLD). It still it is great when sidecraping.
@quaint cobalt Please stop posting MM, problems. If i remember correctly. You aren't allowed to post mm stuff here. Something along those lines. (If my memory serves)

gleaming apexBOT Oct 28, 2020, 8:38 PM

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dynoSuccess Rice#6022 has been warned.

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 10:47 PM

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Is3 gotta get that frontal hull armor buff, give me my russian bias

fiery dagger Oct 28, 2020, 10:55 PM

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Don't mind it having the best turret in tier 8, and the most workable 122mm russian heavy gun in the tier, along with decent mobility........

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Don't mind it playing in a tier with hella premiums and versions of it that are generally way better than it. is3 is the og it deserves to be the beast it was before. If it is so great with this great mobility, great gun, and great turret why isn't it the most popular tank in tier 8? because there are other tanks that just out perform it.

drowsy plaza Oct 28, 2020, 11:04 PM

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IS-3 is actually a lot better than most of the premiums -- the issue is most of the folks playing it are grinding...

spark gorge Oct 28, 2020, 11:07 PM

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IS3 is decent but it definitely got powercreeped hard

dense walrus Oct 28, 2020, 11:07 PM

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@granite oyster name one tier 8 with a better turret
to Mayo's point it has the best dispersion of the t8 IS tanks, and the best soft mobility and traverse stats to go along with a nice top speed.

autumn zodiac Oct 28, 2020, 11:08 PM

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IS-3 has really good accuracy stats for the 122 as well and mobility to top

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 11:12 PM

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I dunno man I think the is5 is better as heavy because it actually has workable armor and decent mobility. Is3 is a good tank sure, but you can't honestly say it hasn't been powercreeped by everything around it from the addition of the millions of premium tanks

karmic steeple Oct 28, 2020, 11:15 PM

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I would like to know which armor u are referring to Bc nothing stands out to me that’s so much better in is5s armor

granite oyster Oct 28, 2020, 11:17 PM

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IS-3 is actually a lot better than most of the premiums -- the issue is most of the folks playing it are grinding...
@drowsy plaza

How is it better then most prems. Only one i can see it being better then is the T2020. PLEASE name the prems that are better then it as im curious. Also

@granite oyster name one tier 8 with a better turret
T54E2 and 252U

brisk path Oct 28, 2020, 11:17 PM

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@brisk path The Chieftain T95 got a buff a while ago - and it was definitely playable even before that if you where used to playing the pre surgery T110E5 . - the Type 59 is always near the top fo the tier 8 med balance charts - it dropped to 3rd the last update - but definitely does not need a buff -- frankly I think that when it lost +1/-2 Pref MM when the game changed to +/-1 that it should have gotten either the RoF buffed to its original +/-2 state (initially it was introduced as a +/-2, albeit only for a few folks who got it before the store sale) or a minor pen buff due to seeing a lot more tier 9, and no tasty tier 6 anymore -- but the fact is it does exceptionally well still, and WG hasn't been willing to look at a buff due to that.
@drowsy plaza type seems good cuz t8 meds are skewed, basically

dense walrus Oct 28, 2020, 11:18 PM

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@granite oyster you must be trolling if you think the 252u has a better turret than the Is3. Waiting for Posit1ve to whip out his handy visuals here...

#tank-balance-discussion message
Shark is not pictured here but it is not even close to being that red

autumn zodiac Oct 28, 2020, 11:18 PM

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252u has a trash turret, and T54E2 has a great turret but broadside doesn't stand a chance where as IS-3 it's still not a great idea to shoot at it's turret broadside

austere citrus Oct 28, 2020, 11:19 PM

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is3 has a better turret than 252u, is3 doesnt have the cupolas.

rare sleet Oct 28, 2020, 11:25 PM

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I just don't see why you would play an is3 if you could play another tier 8 premium like 252u or wz-112-2, they clearly out perform is3

granite oyster Oct 28, 2020, 11:31 PM

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Uhhhh the only thing the 252u has is an extra hatch? Both r rlly small and can only be hit from high up? Plus name three tier 8 prems that are worse overall then the is3. Just saying that its crazy to think its better then the prems at t8. Sure the T54E2 turret might be slightly worse, but its gun and hull armor are better. The 252u being better doesent require an explination. U got tankd like the glaciel, and 112-2 that are just WAAAAAAAAY better then the IS3

unique scaffold Oct 28, 2020, 11:38 PM

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Your all ignoring that is3 is a tech tree and can be obtained freely of course theres many other better tanks at tier 8 than the is3 it’s still a solid choice for the tier if you don’t wanna spend anything

granite oyster Oct 28, 2020, 11:41 PM

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@unique scaffold thats not the argument. Its about that if the prems are better or not. We all know its free but just because its free doesent make it better

muted rampart Oct 28, 2020, 11:42 PM

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@muted rampart that reminds me of E75 TS. What a wonderful tank. It is a mix between E75 and E100 (kinda). But it doesn't have such a crazy frontal armor. But it is still pretty good. Big turret, that GOLD can be used on. Big lower plate that is pennable with normal shells (not GOLD). It still it is great when sidecraping.
@dense yoke

But in E75 TS case upper plate is nearly impentrable even with gold. In Tiger 2 case, upper plate is really easy to penetrate with gold. If you want to nerf lower plate, you need to buff the upper one

dreamy oar Oct 28, 2020, 11:53 PM

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Doesn’t the t32 have the strongest t8 turret though

nimble zodiac Oct 28, 2020, 11:56 PM

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IS-3 can rotate the turret and remain terriflyingly solid

Also T32 has a 25mm plate

T34's turret fails when turned, and also has a considerably large cupola

granite oyster Oct 28, 2020, 11:56 PM

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laughs in T34

hardy hazel Oct 29, 2020, 12:09 AM

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Also, it has a thin roof, 34mm of armor or something like that so, you can spam HE and deal some damage when you cant pen

nimble zodiac Oct 29, 2020, 1:04 AM

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Yup, 38mm of unforeseen russian heavy bait

Sure T34 can take advantage of the terrain much better, but in terms of armor, IS-3 has a strong tiny cheek and a 170mm sewer manhole cover

Yeah we got a super red mantlet but the ISU can pen it regardless

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 1:06 AM

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Pershing looking at T34 - with CS APCR

📎 IMG_6234.jpg

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The T34 turret (and T30) isn't half as good as the in game hitskin shows

winged barn Oct 29, 2020, 1:07 AM

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Ignoring the really high pen on the pershing apcr, sure

You are acting like the turret is weak for some reason. It's not

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 1:07 AM

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So it's good against anyone who doesn't know the actual hitskin

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Mantlet near the gun is only 276-279 effective when looking at you

nocturne mauve Oct 29, 2020, 1:19 AM

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It’s because the red zones were altered at one point, they show red when you can pen nowadays

winged barn Oct 29, 2020, 1:25 AM

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Weak is not what I would label this turret as, even if you know the hitskin.

📎 Screenshot_20201028-192408_Armor_Inspector.jpg 📎 Screenshot_20201028-192412_Armor_Inspector.jpg

flat bane Oct 29, 2020, 1:33 AM

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Can you just wiggle lol

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 1:33 AM

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I;m not saying weak -- but it is not nearly as impenetrable frontally like the T32, or IS-3

winged barn Oct 29, 2020, 1:36 AM

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Also, 10° makes the hull significantly easier to hide than the one on an is3

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 1:38 AM

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I love the T34, my comment was simply to the other poster that in reality the 34 turret was easier to pen than the IS-3

hardy hazel Oct 29, 2020, 1:42 AM

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Yup, 38mm of unforeseen russian heavy bait

Sure T34 can take advantage of the terrain much better, but in terms of armor, IS-3 has a strong tiny cheek and a 170mm sewer manhole cover

Yeah we got a super red mantlet but the ISU can pen it regardless
@nimble zodiac i was talking about T34, but yeah, will work in pretty much any tank like one of the american tier 10 tanks that gets its loader injured when you shot HE at the roof

Oooh i see now, i thought you were talking about IS-3

nimble zodiac Oct 29, 2020, 1:42 AM

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@hardy hazel I was talking about the T34 when I said 38mm of russian heavy bait, I said that because the russian heavies can overmatch with the 122mms

jagged crescent Oct 29, 2020, 2:08 AM

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34 turret is weaker but its easier to flex around

unique scaffold Oct 29, 2020, 2:43 AM

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@dusk plume noob

karmic lark Oct 29, 2020, 6:26 AM

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mediums dont stand a chance unless the heavy's a heavium

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 AM

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Heavy or medium tank which is better lol
I like meds more, they don't have boring playstyle of heavies

unique scaffold Oct 29, 2020, 7:52 AM

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do T34 versus su130PM and you will see that SU AP pen ez on it

fallow eagle Oct 29, 2020, 8:01 AM

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Buff obj 140 mobility

dense yoke Oct 29, 2020, 8:13 AM

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wonderful seeing IS3 With that turret. Just remembering that is3 leads to IS7 and also remembering that is7 turret is worse than IS4 turret is quite the dissapointment.

unique scaffold Oct 29, 2020, 8:24 AM

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Imagine complaining about weak spots, smh

dense yoke Oct 29, 2020, 8:32 AM

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Imagine complaining about people who complain about weak spots, smh.
@unique scaffold . If you mean tank type. I would say heavy type tank. But if you want to grind a tank, that will be good for noobs. Than go for IS4/MAUS. Also vicker light line as it is pretty good atm.

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 8:39 AM

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high pen tank destroyers
like hori line (Japanese), obj 268 line (USSR), etc

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 9:05 AM

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nah I would say a noob friendly heavy line, such as the IS-7 amd IS-4 lines. but i would recommend the is-4 line more

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 9:11 AM

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I don't recommend heavies because team mates expect you to be on front or get hold of strong position or contest enemy heavies which takes fir amount of skill
unlike laid back, support from distance playstyle of tds

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 9:25 AM

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TDs require way more map awareness and knowledge to use effectively. with heavy tanks, usually you will have armor, so it can be more forgiving of mistakes. they are also slow which could mean that it a newer player may tend to rush in and die less often. with a TD, often a newer player may make the mistake of thinking that they should always be camping in the back, sniping, which isnt true. and of course, td's are all about the firepower, so you need to have good aim and know who to shoot. Td's also often dont have turrets, which is another problem.
Obviously some heavies are easier to play than others, and some td's are easier to play than others, but just in general, heavies are probably more noob friendly and requires the least skill out of all the classes.

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 9:39 AM

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that's a lie

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 9:41 AM

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okay yeah tell me, what is a lie

muted rampart Oct 29, 2020, 9:53 AM

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@nimble zodiac t26e5 Has much more stronger turret

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 9:56 AM

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@spark gorge you only need to learn to drive to a corner that every other ally td goes to and press fire button

that's it

that's how I get 8k games in grille

this playstyle is just not newb friendly but relaxing after long day

scarlet fjord Oct 29, 2020, 10:03 AM

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Fix annihilator wargaming i cant even grind tier 8 ignore tier 6 and 7

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 10:03 AM

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dang right the grille is not noob friendly, but noob friendly is what we are talking about here. first of all newer players may stay at the back way too long, or get too close and die, and sitting in the corner of the map isn't going to work every match either. also, not all td's are even supposed to camp in the back. In fact, most of the "easier" td's tend to have some sort of armor, and are not meant to sit at the corner of the map and just snipe. they often don't have a turret like grille either, and are easier to get circled. Its not going to very "relaxing" for a new player when their grille gets HE'd to death

You are talking about the grille 15, but why don't you tell me why the td lines you brought up are so noob friendly? (Ho ri, obj 268) I dont doubt they are easier than other td lines, but they are definitely not as noob friendly as some heavy lines. Just because they have high penetration, it doesn't mean now noobs don't have to aim.

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 10:09 AM

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ah would you stop nitpicking everything I say
it is not like new player would attain knowledge of not pushing to far, using armour correctly and playing infront of team with heavies.
I said tds are easier to play because all of them require to be played at distance, with or behind team, which is completely fine for new players as they won't master moving and maintaining any control over map or aim when they start to play game.

_**``I talk about grille as an example, as I play it often``**_

we can keep of going with this strawman argument, it won't lead to any conclusion.

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 10:14 AM

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bruh how can I even nitpick when your entire reply was like 3 sentences long. Yes, i understand that obviously just because a noob is in a heavy it doesn't suddenly make them super good. I'm just saying that its more forgiving of mistakes, and easier to learn how to use because of its slow armored nature. just because you play a TD behind the frontlines, it doesn't make it any easier to use effectively. And yes, new players wont "master maintaining control over map or aim", and thats exactly why it would be harder for them to use TD's. TD's require good aiming to use its gun, and good positioning.
I dont even know why you brought up the grille, when its not even close to noob friendly. and considering the examples you brought up was the ho ri and 268

distant river Oct 29, 2020, 10:17 AM

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TDs are probably the easiest class to play because even 20 or 30 battles in everyone knows the camping spots and all you have to do is sit and wait. You might not perform as well as in other classes, but it gets the job done.

Heavies require a bit more thought about armour getting shots in, it's not much but TDs are more noob friendly.

Heavies provide a better platform for learning mechanics and can develop many more skills because they have to think about positioning, armour and shooting whereas TDs mainly just have to think about positioning.

If a new player wanted very easy games, recommend a TD, if they want easy games but to learn at the same time, then recommend a heavy is my opinion.

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 10:25 AM

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Yeah, its probably not going to be very hard if you are just sitting somewhere in a camping spot and waiting, but for many TD's staying in the same spot for most of the game probably isnt going to be the most helpful for your team. And if you just tell a noob to just sit in the back and snipe, chances are they are going to just completely camp, and not even drive in when necessary (I see it way too much in battles). Now obviously it changes a lot depending on what td line it is, but generally there are still a lot of things you need to use most TD's well, that a really new player isn't going to know, and possibly do poorly with the tank.

And of course, since we are talking about the entire line, by the time a noob gets to like tier 8,9, or 10 heavy, they should've at least picked up some really basic skills or knowledge to at least do a bit better. Of course armor and shooting knowledge is important to know for heavies, but is probably important for most TD's too.

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 10:28 AM

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and tds grind is easier @distant river

spark gorge Oct 29, 2020, 10:36 AM

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well that's really dependent on what the lines are

coarse harness Oct 29, 2020, 11:16 AM

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When I was new I started to grind every heavy line and 1-1 in other classes
With the heavy buffs I would even more recommend to do the same thing
Heavies are more forgiving and you can learn TD spots by them shooting at you, med gameplay by watching how they mess you up etc

dense yoke Oct 29, 2020, 12:21 PM

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we better get a B C (T10) buff before the TVP tanks comes in wotb or even BC line buff

meager spruce Oct 29, 2020, 12:22 PM

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I have a feeling the tvp will be the final nail in the coffin for the bat chat.

fallow eagle Oct 29, 2020, 12:22 PM

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They may change batchat to medium like pc

teal palm Oct 29, 2020, 12:23 PM

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Depending on how the TVP is balanced.
It’ll literally make the bat completely pointless

dense yoke Oct 29, 2020, 12:40 PM

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350 alpha, 2.5s interclip, 4 shells. Would love to see BC getting 1 or 2 buffs of these 3 options. But i'm in no control to decide.

teal palm Oct 29, 2020, 12:40 PM

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350 dmg i think makes the most sense

turbid smelt Oct 29, 2020, 12:42 PM

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I have seen many players not like bc
I think I am too newb to understand why it is bad

hearty steeple Oct 29, 2020, 12:43 PM

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350 alpha, 2.5s interclip, 4 shells.
I'll take your entire stock

Ok ok maybe 350 alpha on top of 4 shells might be a bit too much.

Also i honestly don't think it is bad, just out of meta.

orchid grove Oct 29, 2020, 1:59 PM

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@turbid smelt It's because not only is it incredibly unforgiving, but unlike other unforgiving tanks, your payoff is extremely low. You have to work super hard to get damage out. The clip potential is super weak, especially in relation to the somewhat slow unload/low pen/weak accuracy.

Let me put it this way. Between needing HEAT, and bouncing and missing shells, it can take you between 4-5 clips just to kill a single Maus....

It's absolutely ridiculous

@nimble zodiac 4 clips is only equivalent to 4 183 AP shells if you load APCR only and hit/pen every shell. In the Bat Chat, that's not happening. Also, it completely neglects the fact that you have to be exposed in a paper tank for at least ~24s to fire off those 4 clips

nimble zodiac Oct 29, 2020, 2:04 PM

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It would take 4 183mm AP shells to take out a Maus definitely...

Damage RNG: Pick a god and pray

noble quail Oct 29, 2020, 2:06 PM

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I have a feeling the tvp will be the final nail in the coffin for the bat chat.
I've heard that the players in wot pc call it the bat chat destroyer

warped flame Oct 29, 2020, 2:25 PM

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can we pls have alwasy Garage slots avaible for Creditpoints ,i wanna buy IS3 again but have no slot . Thats sucks and i dont wanna sell one of my other Tanks😕

full token Oct 29, 2020, 2:31 PM

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They are fairly easy to obtain now. There’s discounts on them at times each year. 10 slots for 1260 gold iirc. It’s a good deal. If you save up gold from video ads, mission crates, weekly crates and other sources, you can get these slots. As long as you’re not buying tanks very frequently it should be enough. I’ve got around 30 spares, (around 120 tanks) with no real money spent on the game. I just save up gold and then use it when the discounts arrive. Credits are quite easy to obtain. Unless they’re made expensive for credits, slots would be easy to obtain and then WG wouldn’t be able to have people use as much gold on them

orchid grove Oct 29, 2020, 2:38 PM

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@warped flame What's your clan supply level? At clan supply levels 6, 8, and 10, you unlock the ability to purchase one extra garage slot for 200k credits

warped flame Oct 29, 2020, 2:48 PM

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i have all of them useed

coarse harness Oct 29, 2020, 3:03 PM

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You can open garage slots from chests as well sometimes
I have 14 in my storage

jagged crescent Oct 29, 2020, 3:15 PM

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i have like 38 slots

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 4:00 PM

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I have 78 open slots and 424 tanks in my garage

latent snow Oct 29, 2020, 4:06 PM

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I have 54 slots and 414 tanks

v blitz stars says you have 433 O.o

drowsy plaza Oct 29, 2020, 4:09 PM

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sorry typo 424 tanks not 324

brisk path Oct 29, 2020, 5:22 PM

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when is jadj e100 getting a legendary camo

real bison Oct 29, 2020, 5:23 PM

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probably when the leopard 1 is no longer under the collective thumbs of the VL, STB and T-62A

austere citrus Oct 29, 2020, 6:27 PM

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leo 1 should get 122-54 dpm ngl.

pseudo hedge Oct 29, 2020, 6:31 PM

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30 more alpha and it's a really god tank

obsidian osprey Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

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When will they release the Blade camo for VK90 for individual sale?😭

hidden fox Oct 29, 2020, 6:59 PM

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@drowsy plaza sell 4 tanks, you’ll understand why.

gleaming apexBOT Oct 29, 2020, 7:26 PM

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dynoSuccess dumixp1[RO1]#9658 has been warned.

full slate Oct 29, 2020, 9:47 PM

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@obsidian osprey never

obsidian osprey Oct 29, 2020, 11:43 PM

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Looks like FV215B is getting 2 new legendary camos next....theyre uh....interesting

stiff edge Oct 29, 2020, 11:47 PM

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lmao

minor minnow Oct 30, 2020, 12:11 AM

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Krakken

ruby monolith Oct 30, 2020, 12:20 AM

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I want people to give me decent reasons to play the bat chat over the progetto 🌚

lilac ginkgo Oct 30, 2020, 12:20 AM

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dont

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 12:31 AM

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Speed and camo

austere citrus Oct 30, 2020, 12:48 AM

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no reason to play bat chat when TVP coming

minor minnow Oct 30, 2020, 12:51 AM

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Depends on how it’s balanced

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 1:04 AM

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They could always make the tvp a worse batchat

ruby monolith Oct 30, 2020, 1:54 AM

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But why would they do that?

Wg give bat chat 2.5 second reload ffs, both Sheridan and Vickers have some form of armor and don’t need to to sit in front of their target for 6 seconds to be effective

flat bane Oct 30, 2020, 2:13 AM

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Vickers CR is pure 👌 😩 👌

hardy hazel Oct 30, 2020, 2:24 AM

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i wish they nerf vickers gun mantlet

sinful leaf Oct 30, 2020, 2:35 AM

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Vickers Light has 120mm thick upper plate, basically bounces anything not using HEAT when paired with gun dep, aside from TDs like Jg Pz E 100, Obj. 268 and FV215b(183). Also, the tank has one of the fattest mantlets I've ever seen in comparison to the turret, it's not easy to avoid hitting the mantlet by accident.

hardy hazel Oct 30, 2020, 2:40 AM

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i think is the most balance tank of the line, it could do with a gun mantlet nerf too, make it 100mm and it will still be usefull but high pen guns will go thru it

jagged crescent Oct 30, 2020, 3:11 AM

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im convinced the CR has better turret armor than the light

hardy hazel Oct 30, 2020, 3:50 AM

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because its smaller than vickers light

grim briar Oct 30, 2020, 4:28 AM

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And bigger gun mantle for the smaller tank

hardy hazel Oct 30, 2020, 5:19 AM

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Thats why i said that, the mantlet looks the same but cr's turret is smaller than vickers light, its like they grab cr turret and smash it with a hammer, its smaller in height but wider so it has big cheeks

gritty flame Oct 30, 2020, 6:01 AM

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F

latent snow Oct 30, 2020, 7:59 AM

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Depends on how you play

graceful garden Oct 30, 2020, 8:32 AM

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Why does the Panzer IV Ankou SP have worse stats than the Panzer IV G?

worse dispersion
worse aim time
worse armor
worse DPM (barely)

cmon wargaming, buff it to techtree levels. I need to sealclub more efficiently

muted rampart Oct 30, 2020, 9:24 AM

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@graceful garden don't. Just don't

latent snow Oct 30, 2020, 9:39 AM

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It has heat shields and custom crew voice, if you want to seal club play the T1 heavy

turbid smelt Oct 30, 2020, 10:09 AM

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@graceful garden armour is better on anko against he and heat shells

graceful garden Oct 30, 2020, 10:09 AM

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yes, people definitely need to HE you

scarlet fjord Oct 30, 2020, 10:16 AM

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Nerf the armor profile on the Annihilator its turret is toxic
and its side armor is toxic but u dont care
the gun has more DPM than the IS-8 (known tank for amazing DPM) with more alpha than it does
I know ur not nerfing the gun
but nerf the armor

coarse harness Oct 30, 2020, 10:21 AM

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They won't
Deal with it

latent snow Oct 30, 2020, 10:38 AM

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LOL the armor is toxic :U... Its so easy to HE the thing, even frontally if you have +85ish HE pen

brisk path Oct 30, 2020, 10:45 AM

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How long will it take to reach E100..as an f2p...
@unique scaffold it takes bout 500 games if u start t8 complete stock

reef lynx Oct 30, 2020, 11:04 AM

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Lycan needs an better gun and also better turret armor

scarlet fjord Oct 30, 2020, 11:10 AM

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@latent snow only on the sides and rear of the turret
frontally its red everywhere except the lower plate and when it angles that only half of the lower plate is pennable
while hull down you can pen the turret on small weak spots which means its accuracy based
if a tier 8 122 mm gun needs to load gold for a tier 7 heavy that has a tier 9 gun its broken

hidden fox Oct 30, 2020, 11:12 AM

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I agree with @scarlet fjord

nocturne mauve Oct 30, 2020, 11:30 AM

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I did not expect it to have angled sides

fallow eagle Oct 30, 2020, 11:34 AM

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Buff is7 prammo pen
I don't want to use calibrated shells as the dpm is already bad enough to brawl

fierce crag Oct 30, 2020, 11:47 AM

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New tanks are destroying balance，old tanks are getting an even more tough to fight in today's environment，for example，you can hardly find a tier 7-8 middle/light tank who can fight Chimera，this is not fair!Have you got any plans to rebalance overpowered vehicle like chimera and Smasher?

latent snow Oct 30, 2020, 11:48 AM

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@scarlet fjord

frontally it’s red except the lower plate
Wtf 😂?!
The upper plate is 175mm effective when on flat ground, the turret has roof which is 175mm effective and cheeks that are around 200-210mm effective, if you are struggling to pen this tank in teir 8 then it’s your own fault... or you are driving an amx 13 90
teir 9 gun
That has shells that disappear after 400m, and has full dispersion for the last 2 shells..

fallow eagle Oct 30, 2020, 11:53 AM

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@fierce crag
Yea 303mm pen on is7 isn't good enough to pen even e100 turret(needs to be complete flat which means you can pen his turret only if you're little above him)
People tell me to use calibrated but 2300 dpm is not good enough against anyone
Even most tier 9 heavies have more prammo pen as well as dpm compared to is7

muted rampart Oct 30, 2020, 11:56 AM

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@fallow eagle even is 8 has everything better than is7 except alpha, hp and armor XDDDDDDDD

fallow eagle Oct 30, 2020, 12:08 PM

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Why don't they buff is7 then?
It was supposed to be an assault tank which could dmg enemies and lead charge
Why don't they buff it's pen so that it can atleast compete in the meta
Or else just replace it with obj 277

nimble zodiac Oct 30, 2020, 12:11 PM

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Oh it can lead a charge alright

Proceeds to rush and slam into a facehug with an enemy heavy while my teammates don’t get the cue and keep camping

@scarlet fjord it has angled sides, shoot the middle of it

Just because you’re a 67%er doesn’t mean it doesn’t have angled sides

scarlet fjord Oct 30, 2020, 12:13 PM

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@latent snow on armor inspector it says the sides are 170 but they are red to 230 AP so armor inspector is incorrect about its armor profile specially about the upper hull dont you see what your facing in game?
btw I'm a 3k WN8 67% player
i doubt your even up there but before you start talking none sense start thinking lol

noble quail Oct 30, 2020, 12:20 PM

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New tanks are destroying balance，old tanks are getting an even more tough to fight in today's environment，for example，you can hardly find a tier 7-8 middle/light tank who can fight Chimera，this is not fair!Have you got any plans to rebalance overpowered vehicle like chimera and Smasher?
@fierce crag I sort of agree with that

The old tanks are left in the shelf while the new ones are better

Yeah I get it that new tanks should be a bit better than the others to make people play them.

But I hope WG will give love to tanks that deserve buffs

scarlet fjord Oct 30, 2020, 12:39 PM

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its good to make it better a bit
but making something better by a bit is one thing
but making something like Smasher and Annihilator is another

turbid smelt Oct 30, 2020, 12:41 PM

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on armor inspector it says the sides are 170 but they are red to 230 AP

boy that side armour is stupid thicc

📎 IMG_20201030_173912.jpg

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 12:50 PM

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@fallow eagle Why choose a is7 over a medium?. I would love a buff to is7 after medium buff update

fallow eagle Oct 30, 2020, 12:55 PM

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I play is7 nowadays only because it was my 1st t10 but i would rather play any other t10 tank
Because it's powercreeped hard
Is4 can do everything is7 can but better(except mobility)
Comparing it to other heavies as well,everyone had weakspots removed,guns buffed,flexibility improved but is7 is left like a grandpa

turbid smelt Oct 30, 2020, 12:56 PM

#

Is 4 can't explode as good as is7

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 1:23 PM

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eh, IS7 is my first tier 10 tank. Sure i had problems with adapting to it when it was at 75% crew. But when it reached 98% crew and i took an advice of a IS7 player. It became my fav tank. (prebuffed hp).
But now that Heavies have gotten hp buffs and have about 600+ more hp than mediums/tds/lights. Now that you play a heavy now. there is more room for error compared to 6.9**.** IS7 has about 50 km/h and heavy armor (that can block). It is just like a medium with heavy armor. So is7 could play like a medium role and a heavy at the same time. The only thing that is holding it back is GUN/GOLD.
Mabye IS7 could get a GOLD shell buff after LIGHTS/MEDIUM BUFFS...

compact nymph Oct 30, 2020, 1:33 PM

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Light/mediums buffs? We've mostly seen heavies buffs lately

mental pasture Oct 30, 2020, 1:56 PM

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There will be a TD buff for tier 6-8 @compact nymph

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 2:01 PM

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Rather than medium buffs, we need lots of heavy nerfs

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 2:04 PM

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@compact nymph tds are getting buffed next update. So it would be wise to assume that LIGHTS/MEDIUMS are next.

noble quail Oct 30, 2020, 2:43 PM

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tds are getting buffed next update. So it would be wise to assume that LIGHTS/MEDIUMS are next.
@dense yoke yeah, there's a chance that lights and meds will get their own turn

WG already buffed hts, now the tds, maybe next the mts and lights

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 2:46 PM

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Rather than buffing literally everything I want to see some nerfs happening

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 2:55 PM

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@noble quail Yes. I wouldn't call it a chance of that happening. I would call it something that will def happen in the future.

hardy hazel Oct 30, 2020, 3:10 PM

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New tanks are destroying balance，old tanks are getting an even more tough to fight in today's environment，for example，you can hardly find a tier 7-8 middle/light tank who can fight Chimera，this is not fair!Have you got any plans to rebalance overpowered vehicle like chimera and Smasher?
We need a full rebalance for every tank, the new ones are stupidly strong compared to the first ones added in the game leaving tier 10 out of the ecuation(because tier 10 is the most balanced tier in my opinion)
And the old tanks that are holding themselves rn its because of a stupid buff most of the time (see T1 heavy, panther 1, etc)

noble quail Oct 30, 2020, 3:19 PM

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Yeah

Why did WG buff the T1 heavy

Now it's a seal clubber's go to tank because of that frontal armour

cerulean gorge Oct 30, 2020, 3:47 PM

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Hello , i think that a solution for E6 s massive and Weak cupola is to take out old cupola and put somthing like the m6a2e1 exp cupola , not big , not Op , not realy armoured (maybe Just 200 ) tô auto ricoche
So It Will become more reliable on hulldown
And maybe as It is not for free and i payed for It , i feel like It deserves The same E5 s consumables and provisions
So i Will become more reliable and worth It , and maybe good at tournaments

austere citrus Oct 30, 2020, 3:48 PM

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Just give it some more buffed upper plate armor, less reload, and more mobility. Simple as that.

rare sleet Oct 30, 2020, 4:33 PM

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im just confused why wargaming decided to give is4 more hp than is7 because I think is7 deserves more hitpoints

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 4:42 PM

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@rare sleet I would guess it is because of the line. It started in tier 6. T150 has more hp than KV-1S. KV3 has more hp than IS. KV4 has more hp than IS3, ST1 has more hp than IS8. So naturally IS4 should have more hp than IS7. (Even tho it doesn't make sense, if we are talking sizewise)

rare sleet Oct 30, 2020, 4:49 PM

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oh yeah historically too because is4 is a competitor with is3 for a new tank version for the is2, and is7 was a beefy boi but was a failed prototype due to the fact that the soviets wanted to much from it and is8 the last heavy built by the soviets was truly the greatest heavy tank of them all, renamed t-10 of course

unique scaffold Oct 30, 2020, 4:57 PM

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Technically the IS4s did get some form of modernization in their life IS7 was too complex and expensive as one prototype caught fire during trials

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 4:58 PM

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Why make a chunky is7 when you could mass produce t54s

rare sleet Oct 30, 2020, 5:01 PM

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but is8 was kind of good until the t64s and t80s rolled around

turbid smelt Oct 30, 2020, 5:09 PM

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is8 started to become eh, everyone was researching atgms
cccp decided to stop making heavies which took more resources than meds while barely giving any upper hand

unique scaffold Oct 30, 2020, 5:09 PM

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Not really it got outdated fairly quickly and was kept alive by advancements Russians ditched its kind when they realized heavy tanks were useless also what HRS said

strange saddle Oct 30, 2020, 9:18 PM

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The annihilater is the bane of tier 6 light tanks lol

nimble zodiac Oct 30, 2020, 9:35 PM

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Yeah, ignore the KV-2, SU-152, and Smasher

minor minnow Oct 30, 2020, 9:39 PM

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(And to a personal extent the SU-100Y)

last shadow Oct 30, 2020, 10:48 PM

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Would rather fight any of the other tanks listed above with my T6
Cuz I know I can pen them/their turrets with gold
Meanwhile Annihilators turret has to be stupidly thick

Smashers turret is still basically a Kv2s turret with more armour
So no problems with gold (or even standard to some extent)

muted rampart Oct 30, 2020, 10:50 PM

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@last shadow smashers turret laughing in the background

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Smasher's gun is a lot scarier

last shadow Oct 30, 2020, 11:00 PM

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Thats not wrong, but im still more "scared" of Annihilators
Just because of that stupid turret armour and the fact that they (for some reason) always hit 2 out of 3 shells at any range while the smasher i always meet are full out HE idiots...

nimble zodiac Oct 30, 2020, 11:02 PM

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Just wondering, does Smasher take more skill than the Annihilator? 🤔

latent snow Oct 30, 2020, 11:16 PM

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Smasher you need more knowledge of HE-able spots, Annihilator you need to practice some tracking to shoot enemies of the move

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 11:17 PM

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Smasher requires you to know when to shoot ap, he, and heat. Or you could just go the noob route and spam HEAT or HE only

dense yoke Oct 30, 2020, 11:25 PM

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You could watch a video about when, or how to use different type of shells that lasts about/under 10 min.

winged barn Oct 30, 2020, 11:28 PM

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Or you could press 2 and get 500 damage every shot. Not saying this is better, just saying that it is the 0 brainpower option

last shadow Oct 30, 2020, 11:38 PM

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Feels like t10 rating
7 hulldown diots vs 7 hulldown idiots spaming/bouncing gold at each others turret

real bison Oct 30, 2020, 11:38 PM

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because we must get is-6f

graceful garden Oct 30, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

you'd think that knowing when to fire AP/HEAT/HE is something that would come with a 3-minute (or less) youtube video, but you'd be surprised.

or not, considering that people have been complaining about team quality since the dawn of online gaming. and teams have only gotten worse over time.

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 12:06 AM

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@nimble zodiac Annihilator takes more skill or there is a higher skill gap between noobs and pros because 8 degrees of gun depression so it's less restricting. It's like a regular mouse vs a gaming mouse. A noob will be bad at both. A pro might struggle with the regular mouse, but with a gaming mouse, he can excel and become way better. Smasher you just click and it go boom. @nimble zodiac True but more restrictions like less speed, less gun depression. If you use Smasher HEAT, you just aim and shoot. I do way better in Annihilator than Smasher.

nimble zodiac Oct 31, 2020, 12:08 AM

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Yeah but shots against Annihilator are more forgiving for the Annihilator

Your stats show that Annihilator has a higher skill ceiling :|

wise dirge Oct 31, 2020, 1:23 AM

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Smasher is better against tier 8s because of the stupidly high heat pen, and if that fails it can still splash with HE for like 300, since it can punch above its weight easier, I would say it is better

jagged crescent Oct 31, 2020, 1:57 AM

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I agree

winged barn Oct 31, 2020, 2:23 AM

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Lol, directly comparing to a very broken tank. Something is a bit wrong when broken is a nice standard to look at

spark gorge Oct 31, 2020, 3:43 AM

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i think the general consensus is that both the annihilator and smasher are OP except the smasher is more OP

unique scaffold Oct 31, 2020, 3:55 AM

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dev's plize.. improve the tortoise.. compare to the jgdtiger td of German tier 9.. well the tortoise really does not weigh, already what does less damage than the jag in more it has a longer reload and on the way a bad really bad armor that its in real..thx

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 4:20 AM

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You could just buff the HESH Damage to like insane levels. Jagdtiger is like super good at tier 9.

thick rover Oct 31, 2020, 5:38 AM

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M48 buff plz?

mossy wraith Oct 31, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

Smasher havnt been buffed for a while.
Maybe time to buff it.

mental pasture Oct 31, 2020, 7:34 AM

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Fv 215B 183 has been never buffed

buff and make it the Doomguy of WOTB

sinful leaf Oct 31, 2020, 12:41 PM

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@mental pasture no.

leaden abyss Oct 31, 2020, 2:27 PM

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I would like to see an buff on the obj 140......
The 140 isn't that mutch worth it to grind against an alpha......
Also maybe could it get 1 or 2 degrees more gun depression....
And maybe +40 mm or more Ammor on the turret 💪
Make obj 140 great again 👌💪

hardy hazel Oct 31, 2020, 3:14 PM

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@unique scaffold whats the problem there?

turbid smelt Oct 31, 2020, 3:19 PM

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@hardy hazel he likes drawing circles
guide him to art channel

drowsy plaza Oct 31, 2020, 3:27 PM

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@unique scaffold you have a stock tank, welcome to Blitz.

zinc maple Oct 31, 2020, 3:42 PM

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@wargaming the t43 looks like the upgraded version of the t34-100 and historical the t34-100 got an 100 mm gun so only if u want to think about it Wihe not remove the t43 to the t34-100 ore let them both and make it linke this picture

📎 image0.png

full token Oct 31, 2020, 3:44 PM

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Helsing and Dracula arent historical so don’t expect WG to make this historical

dense yoke Oct 31, 2020, 3:45 PM

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tiger 1

turbid smelt Oct 31, 2020, 3:47 PM

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@zinc maple kv 1s isn't t34 100
kv 1s is USSR attempt of making kv 1 faster and more useful
it lead to IS tank series

orchid grove Oct 31, 2020, 3:51 PM

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@zinc maple It's because T-34-100 is going to be a part of the upcoming Czechoslovak line

zinc maple Oct 31, 2020, 3:53 PM

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@zinc maple kv 1s isn't t34 100
kv 1s is USSR attempt of making kv 1 faster and more useful
it lead to IS tank series
@turbid smelt I mean so it’s there But the trench tree was perfect 4the ide

flat rapids Oct 31, 2020, 4:00 PM

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@zinc maple 11/10 stars

turbid smelt Oct 31, 2020, 4:01 PM

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ah me stoopid

foggy aurora Oct 31, 2020, 4:34 PM

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The problem with replacing the T-44 for the KV-3 and the same thing applies to the KV-2 is that they have a much different play style compared to the KV-4, ST-1, and IS-4 and same thing applies to what you did to the IS-7 line and it wouldn’t make sense for a medium tank to turn into a heavy and will complicate the tech tree which is what WG doesn’t want

muted rampart Oct 31, 2020, 4:52 PM

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@foggy aurora ugh. You just didn t understand what he meant. He just wanted to add a new medium tank that could be an alternative for t43 like it s with jp 2 and ferdinand

nimble zodiac Oct 31, 2020, 5:01 PM

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"It wouldn't make sense for a medium tank to turn into a heavy"
Former T-28 to KV-1:
Now A-20 (a light) to KV-1:
M7 to T1 Heavy:
Pz. IV G to VK 36.01 H:
VK 30.01 P to Tiger (P):
Cruiser IV to Matilda:
Type 58 to IS-2:
AMX 38 to D2:
Leo to Emil I:

spring magnet Oct 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

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You forgot the T54E1 to the T57

nimble zodiac Oct 31, 2020, 5:19 PM

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Frick.

sinful leaf Oct 31, 2020, 5:36 PM

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@nimble zodiac you also forgot Ru 251 to Leo PT A, and T49 to T54E1. Though, those are light tanks turned to mediums.

nimble zodiac Oct 31, 2020, 5:38 PM

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Well, my point is the cycle goes from lights to mediums to heavies, though in A-20's case it's direct

I have not forgotten, my message was a counter, given the quote I provided

dense yoke Oct 31, 2020, 5:41 PM

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you also forget that some heavy/mediums tanks go to mediums/tds/lights

eager shadow Oct 31, 2020, 6:03 PM

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Anti-Tank Mines, imagine the anggael montages guys

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-11-01_at_4.59.05_am.png

drowsy plaza Oct 31, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Or the Tiger(P) —> Vk45.02A —> VK45.02B while all ‘heavies’ are completely different play styles

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@muted rampart WG already removed the KV-13 from the Russian med TT

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So it seems they do not want to add more

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Plus if linear logic was followed the T-150 would have remained not the KV-2

hardy hazel Oct 31, 2020, 7:42 PM

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I agree, is sad when ppl camp in heavys or light tanks

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 8:13 PM

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ngl a tier 7 rear turreted heavy tank would be fun to play.

drowsy plaza Oct 31, 2020, 8:32 PM

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Lupus?

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 9:02 PM

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I haven't seen that tank in shop for ages.

vital basalt Oct 31, 2020, 9:34 PM

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buff E50's Turret to 210mm or 200mm cuz now(185mm) you cant even bounce from tier 8s but youre a tier 9 hybrid medium

minor minnow Oct 31, 2020, 9:59 PM

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And the turret front is so small that at range it’ll either bounce off the sides or be eaten by the gun mantlet. It’s fine

sinful leaf Oct 31, 2020, 10:34 PM

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@muted rampart I agree, low tier before update 5.5 more than made up for the inadequate tutorial. If you didn't know what you were doing, you would get crushed at low tier. You actually had to learn not to camp because you'd always end up doing little to no damage and be the last one left, with no way to defeat the enemy. Nowadays, the balance is extremely biased towards heavies at Tier 5, when in my opinion it used to be one of the most balanced tiers.

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 11:03 PM

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Panterra Alpha buff to 240. Progetto 46 has it and it has more armor and is better. Panterra should too.

distant river Oct 31, 2020, 11:10 PM

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Errrr

No?

sinful leaf Oct 31, 2020, 11:19 PM

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@austere citrus Progetto only has extra alpha on its AP shells which sacrifice ~20mm of penetration. The alpha on the other shells is identical to P.44 Pantera. On top of that, the Pantera has better turret armor and more mobility. The only thing holding it back is the size, and gun depression over front.

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 11:22 PM

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There's Chimera, Progetto 46, E2, EXP, 252U, IS-3 Defender, T28 Defender, Mod 1, SU-130PM, Skorpion G, Jagdtiger 8.8cm(after the update with 350 alpha), Action X, Defender Mk 1, 112-2, WZ-120G FT all better than tech tree tanks besides Emil 1 of course but they want to nerf Emil 1. So don't nerf Emil 1 because it will leave F2P players out of the game and destroy the game. @civic topaz Well from my standpoint, Chimera and E2 have better winrate than Emil 1. I would say Action X and 252U are comparable to Emil 1. and possibly jagdtiger 8.8cm after the update.

civic topaz Oct 31, 2020, 11:24 PM

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Half of the tanks you mentioned are nowhere near to being OP@austere citrus

sudden path Oct 31, 2020, 11:37 PM

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E2 has only been sold once, chimera is only played by people who like the playstyle. Emil 1 can be picked up by anyone and they can still maintain a 60 percent winrate.

austere citrus Oct 31, 2020, 11:38 PM

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that is false, u have to have some skill with emil 1 or ur gonna get clapped

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 12:30 AM

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that is the dumbest thing i've heard tonight

sudden path Nov 1, 2020, 12:49 AM

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Compared to the all the tanks you mentioned, the emil 1 is much easier to play. And f2p so more people can spam it

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 12:59 AM

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so ur saying the game should be p2w?

karmic steeple Nov 1, 2020, 1:00 AM

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Yes 🙏

deft owl Nov 1, 2020, 1:01 AM

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E2 has only been sold once, chimera is only played by people who like the playstyle. Emil 1 can be picked up by anyone and they can still maintain a 60 percent winrate.
@sudden path This is actually a good thing. Its rare to see a tech tree tank being good nowadays in tier 8.

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 1:22 AM

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It's not good to have ANY tank be that good

sudden path Nov 1, 2020, 1:23 AM

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It's just stupidly broken

sinful leaf Nov 1, 2020, 3:25 AM

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Emil I really doesn't need textbook knowledge of armor to do well in it. Any player from the tutorial alone knows that the front is the strongest part of a tanks armor, it's not like they'll show their sides all the time. Even if they did, the Emil I shares the characteristic of Emil II, having a B̷̋͌l̴̊͐ȁ̸̊c̵̀̈k̸̆͘h̸͌̈́o̴̅̇l̶̏̓e̴͌̃ for tracks, literally eats shells if you shoot the side and hit the track. Also makes AMX 50 100 woefully irrelevant, as Emil does almost everything better at the cost of speed, reduced weight, and a much smaller size.

safe rapids Nov 1, 2020, 3:30 AM

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To compensate AMX should get 4 shells now.

full slate Nov 1, 2020, 3:57 AM

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@safe rapids agree

verbal thistle Nov 1, 2020, 4:05 AM

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To compensate AMX should get 4 shells now.
@safe rapids Yeah
But it will get the ability to one clip tier 7 tanks
But still, russian deeps can one shot some of them so that sounds fine.

safe rapids Nov 1, 2020, 4:05 AM

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Yep. Not broken at all considering in PC it has like 7

turbid smelt Nov 1, 2020, 4:18 AM

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@austere citrus

so ur saying the game should be p2w?
define p2w

pseudo hedge Nov 1, 2020, 6:56 AM

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@unique scaffold ????

dark pike Nov 1, 2020, 6:59 AM

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luck required to get a tank is astronomical

foggy delta Nov 1, 2020, 7:00 AM

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Yh

twilit crystal Nov 1, 2020, 7:08 AM

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Progetto has a better turret and its gold pen is better

unique scaffold Nov 1, 2020, 10:31 AM

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I didn't pay and I got an is 6, AC IV sentinel, y5 firefly and a y5 t 34

scarlet fjord Nov 1, 2020, 10:42 AM

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Wargaming stop buffing the wrong tanks
Jagtiger 8.8 doesnt need improvements
Jagtiger tier 9 doesnt need armor profile buff like the one you gave it
Why are you not buffing tanks that ACTUALLY need buffs
T28 you can penetrate its frontal hull with 230 mm of pen
you cant angle it 50mm sides you can HE that plus pike nose design on upper super structure u cant angle
your too slow with paper armor your gun is meh not even the best td gun at tier 8 hell not even close
Buff IS-3 either make it VERY accurate and have a Heavium play style with proper accuracy
or buff the armor
the accuracy buff is a way more fun idea though
T44 needs to be worked on Tortoise needs work
why are you buffing tanks that are fine?

muted rampart Nov 1, 2020, 10:47 AM

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I think jgtg 88 was just average so i don t see any problems in it getting buff. But situation with Jgpz 4 or su 122 44 is completly different none of those tanks deserve buff at all

scarlet fjord Nov 1, 2020, 10:53 AM

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my problem is that they are buffing average tanks and making them above average
Instead of making very BAD tanks good ones
the jg pz IV will be broke it already kinda feels broke but whatever its tier 6 and its facing Smashers and Annihilators so idc
the SU-122-44 kinda needed the pen buff because it was struggling with that accuracy to pen things
but they are overcooking some things while not buffing what needs buffing

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 11:14 AM

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my problem is that they are buffing average tanks and making them above average
Then why are you talking about IS-3 and T-44 ?

civic topaz Nov 1, 2020, 11:16 AM

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T44 is actually very good

fiery dagger Nov 1, 2020, 12:02 PM

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So is Is-3

sudden path Nov 1, 2020, 12:41 PM

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Um is3 probably has the best turret tier for tier in the game.
T44 actually is fairly mobile, decent gun handling, and 7 degrees of gun depression, along with a bit more punch of 280 alpha. But when you can play the t54 lightweight, the T44 just cant compete, so nobody plays it. Is3 is actually better than a lot of the is clones

turbid smelt Nov 1, 2020, 1:00 PM

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yeah t54ltwt is better in every way except for accuracy and hull armour

scarlet fjord Nov 1, 2020, 1:19 PM

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they are power crept the accuracy on the IS-3 is terrible
the hull armor is crap
the turret might be strong but so what
you have 5 degrees of gun depression and many tanks have just as strong turret
T-44 is paper everywhere if you have an ounce of brain cells
a light tank
T-54 lt wt literally has more armor is faster and has better camo
a T34 a Lowe EXP these are average now a days
not an IS-3
after the buff the IS-6 makes that tank look like a joke
not that I'm complaining on the IS-6 they
NAILED the buff on the IS-6 it was perfect

foggy delta Nov 1, 2020, 1:26 PM

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Neh

noble quail Nov 1, 2020, 2:46 PM

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I still think that the american medium tank line needs a buff
They are balanced, but too balanced IMO

muted rampart Nov 1, 2020, 3:03 PM

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No. American mediums are completly uselles

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 3:05 PM

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If a T8 heavy needs a buff IS-3 is definitely not the most important
Same with the T-44
Just look at the Cent 1, STA-1, maybe even the Pershing and the Indien Pz

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 3:15 PM

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T44 is one of the best tech tree t8 mediums

Behind the pan2 and pantera
About equal to the t34 2

Take the kv3 and 111 1 4 off that list below and I am happy.

muted rampart Nov 1, 2020, 3:16 PM

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And vk 45 02 A, T28, T28 prot and maybe these aren t t8 but panther M10, kv 3, arl V39, wz 113 G FT, wz 111 1-4, Y5 elc and There are way more tanks like that. All of them are uselles and need some buff

sinful leaf Nov 1, 2020, 3:23 PM

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Y5 ELC bis isn't useless. Also, that was a tank you were able to get for free. Now the prammo alpha sucks, that's for sure but at least it's better than Comet in the accuracy and mobility department. 111 1-4??? It's just an IS-8 that uses a 130mm gun instead of a 122mm. KV-3... Where did you get that KV-3 is useless? It has more than usable armor, because it already got a buff in the past. Do you want to make it literally impossible for same tier mediums or heavies to pen KV-3?

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 3:26 PM

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The y5 elc is approaching useless. But yea, the 11114 is a nice cross between the kpz70 and is8. I love that thing.

noble quail Nov 1, 2020, 3:34 PM

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No. American mediums are completly uselles
if that's the case the line desperately needs a buff

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 3:36 PM

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Only the pershing is completely useless, all the other ones are workable, but have netter options

M48 is workable. It's a slightly worse stb1.

autumn zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 3:37 PM

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48 Patton isn't workable, terrible gun stats, huge size, worst camo of mediums, mediocre armor not not exactly tons of health to it's name.

turbid smelt Nov 1, 2020, 3:53 PM

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it is like t44 of its tier

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 3:57 PM

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Nah, t44 is far better than many of its peers

noble quail Nov 1, 2020, 4:14 PM

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what if WG buffs the M48 Patton HP because it's kind of a heavy medium of somesorts

But nah WG probably has reasons not to buff it's HP, but I really want WG to buff the M48 Patton's aspects, and the rest of the line also

All of the tanks in that line are workable, but my best pick is the T20, I like that tank even though it is mediocre. Best things in the T20 is that 225 alpha gun, that kinda makes lower tier tanks regret their decision of pushing you, especially if you high roll.

The T20 also kinda needs a buff, maybe on the pen.

sudden granite Nov 1, 2020, 4:22 PM

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Wargaming stop buffing the wrong tanks
Jagtiger 8.8 doesnt need improvements
Jagtiger tier 9 doesnt need armor profile buff like the one you gave it
Why are you not buffing tanks that ACTUALLY need buffs
T28 you can penetrate its frontal hull with 230 mm of pen
you cant angle it 50mm sides you can HE that plus pike nose design on upper super structure u cant angle
your too slow with paper armor your gun is meh not even the best td gun at tier 8 hell not even close
Buff IS-3 either make it VERY accurate and have a Heavium play style with proper accuracy
or buff the armor
the accuracy buff is a way more fun idea though
T44 needs to be worked on Tortoise needs work
why are you buffing tanks that are fine?
@scarlet fjord lmao just free exp em xddd

sudden path Nov 1, 2020, 4:38 PM

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the second best kind of armor after autobounce is troll armor that people think they can pen but rng happens so they bounce. Is3 has loads of troll armor from the sides to the pike nose, even if both arent super great on paper. T44 has enough troll armor that it can bounce on the turret, especially at 7 degrees of gun depression.
Buff cent 1 and sta instead.

fallow eagle Nov 1, 2020, 4:41 PM

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Plz return is3 to it's original state of prime heavy at t8
I know i should just play either obj252u,is5,is6 or is3 defender but new players going through the line will get wrong impression when some people will tell them is3 is well armored

dense yoke Nov 1, 2020, 4:41 PM

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I agree. Buff Some of the cent1/pershin line as i see no reason to play him over vicker/e5 line. Same with sta1 (not line)
I am comparing Cent line with Vicker line and M48 PATTON with E5 LINE, just to be clear

drowsy idol Nov 1, 2020, 4:48 PM

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doesn’t m48 patton have the best view range right behind vickers

autumn zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 4:48 PM

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STA-1 is fine, it's a stealthy medium that has higher DPM than most of the tanks including the second highest Penetration of tier 8 mediums. The camo on it is very high as well as the view range.

real bison Nov 1, 2020, 4:49 PM

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yeah but no reason to play patton as you may as well play STB to have 1+ gun dep + more reliable gun, if you wanna play patton for the turret, play the STB or T-62A @drowsy idol

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 4:50 PM

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Bready actually wants to buff the wz 111 1-4. . . swag swag

winged barn Nov 1, 2020, 5:05 PM

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The only heavy that needs a buff is the vk45a. all of the others need nerfs need a nerf or be left alone

nimble zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 5:06 PM

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Poor KV-1

@real bison they probably mean just stronger tanks than what you would work for in the tech tree

real bison Nov 1, 2020, 5:06 PM

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I agree with the VK45A needing a buff, but not all HTs receiving nerfs

@austere citrus in what way now?

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 5:13 PM

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@turbid smelt you get gameplay advantage by using real currency.

turbid smelt Nov 1, 2020, 6:06 PM

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yea I guess buying premium time makes game pay to win by that logic...

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 6:13 PM

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@turbid smelt no? @turbid smelt I should've reworded it. "Competitive" advantage. An advantage that gives you the ability to get an advantage by killing another player. @sudden granite The playstyles between soviet meds and wz 113 is very different. WZ-113 is hold a line while soviet meds are flank.

sudden granite Nov 1, 2020, 6:14 PM

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Tbh tX heavies way too good. Especially for tournaments. Need a soviet med? Take wz113 which goes the same topspeed with the same dpm and better armor. Need an e50m? Take e5 with speedboost
Like cmon

dense yoke Nov 1, 2020, 6:48 PM

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Wz113 - 2300 hp
Soviet mediums - 1850~ hp
E5 - 2300 hp
E50 - 1850~ hp
Is7 - 2500 hp.

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 6:54 PM

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have u checked the DPM between the tanks?

sudden granite Nov 1, 2020, 7:00 PM

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have u checked the DPM between the tanks?
@austere citrus ehm difference between obj and wz is 100
Difference between e5 and e50m is like 350
Don’t forget the armour and reactive armor the e5 has over the e50m
And also I don’t think you have played competitive tournaments since you’re saying that. Wz isn’t for holding, is4 is used for that

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 7:04 PM

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@sudden granite You hold a hole in WZ-113. WZ-113 traverse sucks. Also, WZ-113 moves slower than an E3 in traverse pretty sure so it makes up in traverse. Second, I also want a buff to medium tanks, heavies overmatch them for sure.

mental pasture Nov 1, 2020, 7:05 PM

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@muted rampart I kinda agree on SU-122-44, the basically removed the normalization angle and gave more pen

It was a tank that only worked well against meds and lights, but now it might will be workable against heavies too

scarlet fjord Nov 1, 2020, 7:09 PM

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@sudden granite lol nice argument
Me: Wargaming is buffing good tanks instead of the trash
Random guy: Just skip them lol
189 IQ

dense yoke Nov 1, 2020, 7:10 PM

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Heavy tanks have gotten buffs. Tds are going to get buffed. Wouldn't it be wise for everyone to assume that LIGHT and MEDIUM tanks are getting buffed in the future?

latent snow Nov 1, 2020, 7:11 PM

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buff green team IQ so they dont camp in heavies so much

sudden granite Nov 1, 2020, 7:11 PM

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@sudden granite lol nice argument
Me: Wargaming is buffing good tanks instead of the trash
Random guy: Just skip them lol
189 IQ
@scarlet fjord They haven’t done so in ages, I’ve tried to tell em to buff em just like you are but they simply don’t listen. That’s why I just gathered up ma free exp and skipped em, not much else you can do. Unless you want to play the t28 xddd

nimble zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 7:20 PM

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Nerf green team IQ, they stealing my damage 😒

But to be fair them camping in heavies doesn’t contribute to the time I’m allowed before the enemy starts targeting me

scarlet fjord Nov 1, 2020, 7:27 PM

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@muted rampart KV3 ARL 113 GFT these arent useless wtf
specially not KV-3
the KV-3 is literally op
armor mobility and the gun are beautiful honestly your struggling as a player if you think KV-3 is bad

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 7:30 PM

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To be honest, ARL(The tank destroyer sucks), and the WZ-113G-FT should get a buff since the russian one is jujst better. So yea WZ-113G-FT is just outclassed @nimble zodiac arl v39 should just get a massive speed buff and engine power buff like the dracula

nimble zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 7:36 PM

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ARL V39 needs either armor or more speed/DPM

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 7:47 PM

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And WZ TD needs those 120mm cheeks

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 7:50 PM

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They should buff the armor to 250mm, 150mm on the cheeks, and 200mm on the lower plate(not effective). Speed is pretty slow so it's fair. Basically a Chinese E3/268 Hybrid. And because the armor on the sides of the Chinese TDs is like 80mm which makes the Sides EXTREMELY weak.

stark cape Nov 1, 2020, 8:03 PM

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Also why the ammunition price of the AT 15 is so high?
I mean, 680 credits to do 190 damage, and low penetration for a tier 8 TD...

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 8:05 PM

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why you playing with ATs?

nimble zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 8:06 PM

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To get the only enjoyable tank after the AT 2 in the line, the 183

toxic cove Nov 1, 2020, 8:07 PM

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B-C 25t certainly needs buff, one of the weakest and the most complicated tier X vehicles

unique scaffold Nov 1, 2020, 8:10 PM

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tbh interclip is too long, other meds have 350 alpha 8 second reload by the time you unload your clip they shot you twice

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 8:13 PM

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@nimble zodiac I enjoyed both the AT-7 and AT-15🤐

mental pasture Nov 1, 2020, 8:18 PM

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I think in 2 options for buffs to BC 25T

Maintain the intraclip, but give a fourth shell on the clip and make it a medium tank as like in WOT (it means concealment while moving nerf)
Just buff the intraclip reload

I believe that those options are the finest for BC 25T

minor minnow Nov 1, 2020, 8:18 PM

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AT15 I kinda understand, AT-7 you got me lost bud

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Tbh tX heavies way too good. Especially for tournaments. Need a soviet med? Take wz113 which goes the same topspeed with the same dpm and better armor. Need an e50m? Take e5 with speedboost
Like cmon
I agree but a WZ113 is anything but as mobile as a Soviet Med. Nobody runs an e50m in tournies anyways. Doesn't fit any roles.

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 8:23 PM

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@minor minnow you just have to find a corner

I have 74% WR with decent avg in it from 2 years ago

📎 IMG_20201101_212313.jpg

fiery dagger Nov 1, 2020, 8:50 PM

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I also liked AT-7, and AT-15 was surprisingly great. I managed to get over 1900 average damage in up to the 300 battles with it.

austere citrus Nov 1, 2020, 8:53 PM

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give it 350 alpha??? Pretty sure it has a 105mm. Maybe an Alpha buff to 350, Pen buff, and 2 second reload instead of 3 seconds? - batchat

minor minnow Nov 1, 2020, 8:57 PM

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😳

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 9:12 PM

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I'm convinced that the Batchat's perfectly usable as it rn and some of yall are not using it right

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 9:19 PM

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2nd worst avg damage and 4th worst avg WR in the latest charts and similar or even worse results from the previous ones

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 9:30 PM

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A glass platform that has 930 burst damage which requires at least 6 seconds of exposure? Wouldn't be surprised

twilit crystal Nov 1, 2020, 9:45 PM

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its garbage lol, 930 is so bad for those 6 seconds. Either needs an intraclip buff or Clip potential buff

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 9:59 PM

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So the tank is perfectly fine just unicums can't use it lol

meager spruce Nov 1, 2020, 10:04 PM

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The way I think Bat Chat should be buffed is for its view range to get slightly increased to rival that of the vickers and for its intraclip to decrease to 2.5

dark glen Nov 1, 2020, 10:09 PM

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I would rather let it have a bigger clip so that the TVP can be a fast unloader

sinful leaf Nov 1, 2020, 10:20 PM

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I would prefer an alpha buff to 350, Bat chat has a 105mm gun at tier 10 yet only 310 alpha.

coarse harness Nov 1, 2020, 10:21 PM

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They made the FV4005 autoloader and the Kranvagn autoreloader so I wouldn't expect the same TVP as it is on PC

meager spruce Nov 1, 2020, 10:22 PM

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I doubt they will change the autoloader

unique scaffold Nov 1, 2020, 10:29 PM

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The kranvagns reloader is unnecessary 4005 had to change because le consumables and no one wants another 183 so I doubt tvp will introduce something game changing

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 10:33 PM

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for the BC, what if they made the gun's interclip faster (3-->2.5) and made the magazine reload longer

overall the same dpm but now its only 5 sec of exposure whoooooo

meager spruce Nov 1, 2020, 10:52 PM

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no.... just make the intraclip 2.5 and leave the reload alone

jagged crescent Nov 1, 2020, 11:33 PM

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woulldnt that make the dpm higher

flat bane Nov 1, 2020, 11:36 PM

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Yep

nimble zodiac Nov 1, 2020, 11:44 PM

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Yeah, it's probably a good idea not to increase reload anywhere

winged barn Nov 2, 2020, 12:20 AM

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They should double the camo of the bat.
That would make it very different

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 12:25 AM

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2800 DPM to 2953 doesn't look a big deal, but that's only my opinion@meager spruce

The actual full reload is 19.89 secs, with a 2.5 secs intraclip, you get 18.89
It really doesn't looks a good deal

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 12:34 AM

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no point in running batchat with better tanks. Unless it gets 2 second intraclip reload and 350 alpha. It ain't going no where.

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 12:37 AM

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3521 DPM is too much for a light @austere citrus

17.89 for 1050 damage is incredibly high for a light

nimble zodiac Nov 2, 2020, 12:41 AM

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Rivals 183's AP shells easily, that's terrifying

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 12:45 AM

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@mental pasture The Pen sucks, TVP coming, Vickers is better. and 3521 DPM is in the range of the top mediums such as Obj140s/62As/Leopard 1s. and the pen isnt higher like the leopard 1 while the leopard 1 does like 17.1 for 1050 damage(with better pen) and sure its a clipper but its still a 3 second clip. The alpha is literally the same as tier 8s clippers such as the amx 50 100 and emil 1. Second, you can nerf the reload for the Batchat to like 22 seconds from 18 so its more fair and less DPM.

safe rapids Nov 2, 2020, 12:47 AM

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Give top gun on BatChat 4 shells and TVP 3 but with quicker clip and intraclip reload

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 12:59 AM

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^

That's what I believe, but with one more detail.
Bat Chat 25T having 4 shells clip would make 22.89 as full reload (3 seconds intraclip × 3 intraclips + 13.89 clip reload) and 1240 burst (looks too much, but remember that you'll have to be exposed for 9 seconds, the penetration is pretty low and you may not hit/penetrate all the 4 shells). The DPM will be 3250.

But it would still a high burst for a light, then make it an actually medium as like in WOT (which means concealment while moving at 75% instead of 100%)

I also wouldn't complain about it's alpha, sometimes APCR and HEAT makes a bit less damage than normal

350*4 looks pretty too high, ain't I right? 1400 burst for 22.89 secs is FV 183 level

twilit crystal Nov 2, 2020, 1:04 AM

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not 1240,, 350*4 or bust, also medium concealment isn't 50% its 75%

nimble zodiac Nov 2, 2020, 1:06 AM

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1400 burst scawy

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 1:09 AM

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350 alpha on bat chat is the difference between kill a tier 10 in almost 5 shots, instead of 6 with 310 alpha

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 1:27 AM

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Ngl, 4x350 and increasing the reload to like 19 reload + 9 intraclip reload for a 28 second time to fire all shots would make the tank have exactly 3000 DPM. That would be really fun to play.

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 1:53 AM

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Light tanks are, usually, very tactical. 28 secs of full reload is the opposite of that.

twilit crystal Nov 2, 2020, 1:59 AM

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Batchat would be a med

jagged crescent Nov 2, 2020, 2:06 AM

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Lets add the French cars as lights then yes yes

gleaming apexBOT Nov 2, 2020, 2:49 AM

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dynoSuccess Blacksakino_420#9035 was muted

noble quail Nov 2, 2020, 2:49 AM

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That's hurting my brain

Oh yeah, there's the amx 105 in wot pc right?
also, I think the batchat will be underrated when the tvp comes out

rapid citrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:03 AM

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@mental pasture wait, hold up. The batchat is supposed to have poor DPM. I feel that as long as its clip is strong, it becomes balance, obviously currently its clip isnt as strong as it should, but an increase in the clip potential should decrease the dpm drasitacally otherwise it becomes OP. besides, its a batchat, if its played correctly, dpm doesnt matter, only clip potential does

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 3:08 AM

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Wait, hold op. Very tank can do well when played correctly, even FCM 50T, AMX 13 90 or T28. It all depends on how hard it is to be played correctly, if the tank is too hard to be played correctly then it may deserve a buff.

But also, a fourth shell maintaining the same reload fits for what you said. 1240 as damage potential is much better than only 1 second less of total reload.

Take that.

rapid citrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:14 AM

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Why do people think that the 13 90 is so hard to play, its one of the easiest, well, perhaps i just have a knack for lights. But, dpm with a deadly clip is broke. Just take a look at the pre nerf foch 155. I do feel that the batchat could be rebalanced, an increase in clip potential, but at the price of its clip reload. The dpm should stay the same. Its a light after all, its not designed to brawl or contest locations

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 3:19 AM

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The whole British light line, Type 62, Vk 28.01 and Leopard left the chat (don't take this seriously)

Yeah, 21.71 seconds for only 675 damage is pretty stupid

dense walrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:20 AM

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@rapid citrus the 13 90 is pretty pathetic right now, especially considering the state of tier 8 right now. It’s just too fragile and not deadly enough.

rapid citrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:27 AM

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@dense walrus well, okay. Personal opinion differs from people to people, most people hate the 13 90, i personally love it and can make it work, i feel the challenging playstyle is so much more fun than rolling out and wreaking havok in some OP tank, the 13 90 provides adreneline that i need, every wrong move is punished severely, every blunder leads to the garage. The 13 90 trains quick thinking and smart risk taking. Its fast and has a fairly deadly clip, so it can be made to work, u just gotta know how. Granted its not easy, its highly stressful but every game in it is very exciting. the fragility of the 13 90 also teaches invaluable skills on how to play. Id rather play an underpowered tank than an overpowered tank if it teaches me how to become a better player. Not mentioning the t28 here cuz it actually sucks and needs a serious buff

dense walrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:30 AM

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Right, it teaches good skills but saying all this soft and fluffy stuff about it is just jumping around the fact that it just is not a good tank.

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 3:32 AM

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FCM 50T > AMX 13 90

And both are bad tanks, but AMX 13 90 is just 5 times worse

whole flower Nov 2, 2020, 3:33 AM

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i think they should nerf the smasher!

unique scaffold Nov 2, 2020, 3:33 AM

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Everything he just described t49 does everything better

rapid citrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:41 AM

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@unique scaffold i think its only the clip that makes the 13 90 such a favourite. I mean if it gets a buff, then good for me,

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 3:56 AM

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i think the french lights are the worst line in the game(even worse than British Heavy TDs), not the fastest, DPM isnt even that good, pen is bad, alpha is bad, like why play french light when there are german lights, british lights, new czech lights, and others. No point. I got this idea, give batchat line the most DPM in the line because current line is like horrid.

hearty steeple Nov 2, 2020, 4:05 AM

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French light line is quite weak but honestly the lack of mobility and pointless armour thanks to their cupola of the British at series is worse imo.

Give the line a 4th shell and keep the clip reload or even reduce it for some should achieve the increase in dpm you want and make them more formidable

orchid grove Nov 2, 2020, 4:06 AM

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On PC the French lights/meds have terrifying autoloaders, albeit at the expense of DPM. 6*240 on the 13 90, 6*300 on the BC 25t AP, and 5*390 on the tier 10 BC25t

However, on Blitz, the clips are so incredibly watered down, and lack the oomph that they were meant to have.

If you ask me, the 13 90 ought to be 4*225, the BC25t AP ought to be 4*310, and the BC25t ought to be 4*350

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 4:31 AM

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I agree as well. That would make the tanks much more viable since they lack in like every other department as well besides speed but even then they still get outclassed by other tanks in terms of speed and camos. But yeah, that suggestion is good.

broken osprey Nov 2, 2020, 4:41 AM

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To whom it may concern... I have had a profile on this mobile game for a while. When the original world of tanks came out on PC I had it. I downloaded the mobile game and bought the churchhill tank and now it's gone. Idk what's going on. Maybe I wasted my money on the mobile game?? The PC game is 100% legit. Idk about the editors ability on mobile bc I am losing my money.

austere citrus Nov 2, 2020, 4:56 AM

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Um, did u sell the tank? Because they removed the tank out of the game, but you can still get it if you owned it previously.

broken osprey Nov 2, 2020, 5:08 AM

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I didn't sell but I haven't been on in a few months. Thanks for the response BearSimp2

teal palm Nov 2, 2020, 5:34 AM

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If it’s the Churchill GC you can send a ticket to restore it

hidden solstice Nov 2, 2020, 6:13 AM

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Wargaming why are you allowing the Vickers CR to remain super OP

twilit crystal Nov 2, 2020, 6:16 AM

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@orchid grove actually 13 90 is compared to batchat 12t at tier 8 and it has the same clip damage, 13 90 was fun when it came out and no one complained but wg nerfed it anyway

jagged crescent Nov 2, 2020, 6:17 AM

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swag

stark arrow Nov 2, 2020, 7:41 AM

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give the t49 enough heat pen to pen lttb from the front

stark arrow Nov 2, 2020, 7:56 AM

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better yet nerf the lttb again...

last shadow Nov 2, 2020, 8:19 AM

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T49 is fine

rapid citrus Nov 2, 2020, 8:43 AM

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Hey, what are your opinions on the fv215b? I feel that its quite weak for a tier 10. It doesnt have enough speed, armour or traverse to work. Its supposed to have the best traverse isnt it? But its surpassed by the chieftain and the t57 heavy by a large margin. Im really struggling to play it well.

coarse harness Nov 2, 2020, 9:41 AM

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It doesn't deserve the lowest HP pool among T10 hevies especially since the E5 got the same consumables and sandbag provisions

fiery dagger Nov 2, 2020, 9:49 AM

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Chieftain has the same, T-57 has only 1.5°/s better traverse on medium density ground and in fact Fv215b the best raw traverse. The Hp pool is the only, highly unfair thing that holds it back.

muted rampart Nov 2, 2020, 10:40 AM

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I think buffing this weakspot at the right and left side under the turret that prevents you from side scraping at agresive angles will solve it s problem for me

teal palm Nov 2, 2020, 10:54 AM

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If I remember the 215b actually has one of the highest traverse rates for a heavy tank

last shadow Nov 2, 2020, 11:31 AM

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The entire tank (except the turret) is a weak spot

mental pasture Nov 2, 2020, 11:33 AM

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It can't even sidescrape correctly, rear mounted heavies were supposed to sidescrape, but welp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

full token Nov 2, 2020, 1:45 PM

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It’s not really supposed to be good at it. Rear mounted turrets just help for side scraping but it doesn’t mean they need to be good at that

fiery dagger Nov 2, 2020, 1:47 PM

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@muted rampart The "weakspot" under the turret is 250 mm unangled. Plenty. It's just that the sides are 76 mm.

Also, it's a perfect medium bully, doesn't need to be good at sidescraping.

It's just that the other Heavies deserve HP nerfs.

jagged crescent Nov 2, 2020, 1:49 PM

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default hp of 2200 wouldnt hurt

boreal raven Nov 2, 2020, 1:51 PM

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tier7 doomed up. too many special op tank XD

dense yoke Nov 2, 2020, 7:47 PM

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I want to assume that it is 1/2, because of what happened with heavy hp pool buff. TIER10 Hp were buffed first and after that the lower tiers followed. So mabye are doing the same thing with tds, but they are starting with tier 8/7 and building their way up to tier 10.

coarse harness Nov 2, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Is the 7.4 just the first stage of the TD buffs or that's the whole thing ?
This is the question I just deleted it

jagged crescent Nov 2, 2020, 8:10 PM

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The tier x tds i think are generally in a good spot
The lower ones im not too sure about but it was about time that the AT line recieved some love anyways
Jg88 alpha and pen buff is nice too

JgIV is dumb

Thats why you camp heuehheheh

unique scaffold Nov 2, 2020, 8:11 PM

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DPM is irrelevant when every shot hits your engine and catches you on fire.

coarse harness Nov 2, 2020, 8:23 PM

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T28 should get more armor and/or HP
Tortoise just armor
SU-101 needs more DPM

dense yoke Nov 2, 2020, 8:26 PM

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frontline tds needs more hp
So Tortoise armor and hp

fiery dagger Nov 2, 2020, 8:52 PM

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And AT-15 should have had it's gun mantlet hole fixed.

@real bison
Players with more than 2 functioning braincells are sadly trying to aim there when you hide your cupola on a corner.