turbid smelt
I don't get your last paragraph, hit points are there because game was designed around it
from the original, more strategic slower paced gameplay of wot pc (which wasn't designed prioritizing mobile)
Realistically it makes zero sense poping someone's turrent off by hitting cupola
Blitz shooting mechanics are pretty good but far from reality
austere citrus
give WZ 113 AP Rounds, also buff kpfz 70, either armor buff to kpfz 70 because that armor is legit funny like just upper plate is fine because any tier 8-9 tank can pen it with regular rounds through the upper glacis. Or give it a reload buff
pastel cairn
buff it in what way?
muted rampart
@austere citrus Why do you want to buff 113? It s already really Great. Kpfz need some changes but There are Many tanks that need a buff a way more. For example sta 1, wz 111 1-4, wz 113 G FT (tier X chinese td) and challenger
There is no need to change velocity. It s not that important. I think it can stay as it is and nobody will complain
austere citrus
I don't want a buff to 113, it has the wrong type of shell, the APCR does not have APCR velocity and AP velocity so I want it to change to AP rounds or velocity buff. btw 113 is easily best tier 10 tank, so strong
plush perch
Egirl has point
full token
Just a change to the name of the shell then?
austere citrus
APCR and AP are different
orchid grove
I would kill for 113 to have AP and not APCR
unique scaffold
match making was so garbage today, every match i had someone did 0 damage on my team*
gentle rivet
Oof
remote oriole
The tank does not need a buff, just leave it
austere citrus
I want AP not APCR
jagged crescent
We know the tank doesn't need a buff but we still want shells that actually behave like their classification.
Changing it to AP or buffing the velocity is not going to suddenly make the 113 some uber meta tank
compact nymph
^ 5 degrees of shell normalization on it would be appreciated
nocturne mauve
It should have better traverse and AP as standard
coarse harness
So it shouldn't have any weakness then
The 113 has better DPM than many meds, its HEAT is above average as well and it's fast
round bluff
i mean they changed 140 from apcr to ap which was semi-huge
rocky pelican
I don't understand people complaining most of all about their teams being filled with 🍅 . If you are good player your overall WR will grow. You can never win all games even if you are the best player. There will always be losses you don't stand a chance and wins you didn't have to contribute anything, better deal with that reality and not turn berserker after a loss streak, because that will only make you do more mistakes out of frustration. If anything complain about the +60 premium tanks in tier VII-VIII that are ruining the game for basically everybody.
green radish
U got a point but what about those blocking/afk team mates thats kinda triggering isnt it?
We both know that system doesnt work @nimble zodiac
nimble zodiac
That's just a report 'n go
@green radish well I mean through the website, I've gotten people punished
remote oriole
3 degrees mean a lot, especially at high angles. Don’t forget that it gets to triple overmatch 40mm or less of armour, and double overmatch 60mm or less. Let me show you the difference:
Against 60mm of armour it gets (2 x 1.4 x 122)/60 = rounded up 6 degrees of extra normalisation, which is barely more than an AP shell has. With AP, it would get (5 x 1.4 x 122)/60 = rounded down 14 degrees of normalisation.
That’s one side of the statistic, anyways. The other side is effective armour thickness, even before normalisation. The tank cannot penetrate 60mm of armour angled at 70 degrees with its standard APCR rounds. Normalisation only applies at angles that are lower than that. However, the effective armour thickness of 60mm of armour are rounded down 175mm, which most tier seven tanks can penetrate (if RNG says yes).
If we take 40mm where we can go all the way to 90 degrees it doesn’t look much different. If you shoot 40mm at exactly 90 degrees, which is virtually impossible, you get an impact angle of 81.5 degrees with APCR which translates into rounded up 271mm of armour. The WZ-113 has 255mm of standard pen. However, if you shoot it at 89 degrees you get rounded down 242mm of effective armour after normalisation. So actually, it doesn’t change a thing.
Well, with those overmatchable thicknesses out of the way, let’s see where it actually matters and how much.
80mm - everything up to the ricochet angle is penetrable
100mm - everything up to 68 degrees is penetrable with APCR
120mm- everything up to 63 degrees in penetrable with APCR, 66 with AP
140mm - up to 58 with APCR, 61 with AP
160mm - 53 with APCR, 56 with AP
And so on, I think you get the gist. Now I won’t dig out the standard armour values, but the usual ones are 40, 50m 60, 80, 100, 120 for deck, back and side armour so you can think for yourself how much of a difference it actually makes... and in how many situations. Basically CS vs Gun Rammer all over again
unique scaffold
Create a server for news, the game is trash with 200 battles player in tier 8🙌
rocky pelican
@green radish your opponents have afk players too, overall you should meet them on your team as often as on the enemy team, and sometimes its nice to have last enemy afk after reducing 1v5 to 1v1 with last few HP just to see the positives... The thing I'm utmost furious about is how did WG or the Blitz dev team allow these premium/event/collectible tanks to rule the game in basically every tier apart from 1 and 10. And we aren't talking small differences, we are talking 10-15% WR average differences, by a SINGLE player on a team of 7. Do you even imagine how that WR skyrockets in hands of super unicum who knows how to use such tank to maximum potential? I would say +80% WR. I don't expect to see an answer from the dev, honestly don't see a point in this balance discussion at all since WG never took advice from player opinions. Update 5.1 is prime example of that, but there were many more cases of WG not giving a F before that and after. Prove me wrong.
green radish
Yeah gotta agree on that as i said in different thread i would implement that you can buy prems from store only when you get to know how the game works after some battles @rocky pelican
The thing with op prems is just a rhing to milk a money especially in the days of crisis but there surely are a better ways to make maybe less but "ok" money
rocky pelican
Again, I don't care that players who get premium tanks can't play them properly, on average it doesn't harm me as I meet them in my teams as often as in enemy teams. I got used to players being on average babies who can't do over 1k damage in tier 8. What I can't stand is equally skilled super unicum on the enemy team with Helsing being matched against me in ANY tech tree tank, knowing before countdown starts I will most likely lose, because his tank is just so damn better than mine. I can understand the fantasy tanks, I have nothing against trying different things than the classic WoT content, but why the F*** do you have to make them A) very obviously OP and B) why include them in your policy of "not nerfing no matter what"? Either nerf the premium tanks or buff all the tech tree tanks, because at this pace people will get upset and leave, like I did few years ago and things surprisingly havent gone south yet, but trust me they will once people start realizing Blitz is just a major money grab and the only way to compete at tier 6+ is with a full wallet. Including tournaments and "free" events carefully designed to be near impossible for average player to finish without spending money.
remote oriole
If you want to know why WG supposedly rarely listens to player feedback then just take a look around you. We are literally constantly arguing over every single topic over here. There is no such thing as one player opinion, and that is a good thing. Thanks to all the different feedback and positions Wargaming can make a well-founded decision how to commit in the future.
Another part is that there is the player perceptions/ opinions, and then there is the interest of the developers and the game as such. You firstly can’t assume that what the players want is the best for the game (for example most want all tanks for free, but if everyone had all tanks there would be little point in playing for most) and secondly it’s still Wargaming’s game and their income source, so they have more of a right to decide what happens with it than anyone else.
green radish
Im up with your oppinions but unfortunately i gotta sleep so gn
rocky pelican
Take Warframe in comparison. Everything in that game can be achieved without spending a dime, you can get the premium currency via trading other players, the only things locked behind paywall are cosmetics. Yet the community thrives, developers get money, everyone happy. The entire monetization WG has in place goes against that and only induces rage and payments out of pure frustration. People should be spending money and feeling good about it, not feel forced by the core mechanics which are made to be super grindy and punish you with unbalanced gameplay experience by playing "stock" tanks against most likely 4-6 premium tanks on the enemy team. That's how I remember VII-VIII games and I hated them so much I stopped playing them entirely even before they released Smasher.
green radish
@austere citrus i dont think anybody cares?
nimble zodiac
It beats everyone but the Russians, the 121B, and the Leo 1, while matching with its buddy WZ-121
green radish
@austere citrus nope i saw you talking about why you want to buff wz113 so hard yet everyone was telling you its a bad idea just accept it please we all have tanks we thst dont fit our playstyle so if you struggle with it then you'll improve just by playing 😜
nimble zodiac
Buff or nah because you claim it's the best
austere citrus
I don't want a buff, I just want it to have actual shells it's suppose to get, do you not understand that
gleaming apexBOT
EGirl_Gen_2#6969 has been warned.
distant river
And the associated increase in normalisation would not be a buff because...?
unique scaffold
@austere citrus you tell anyone else to get out of here and you will be the one who gets out of here.
karmic steeple
They’re gone 🎉
nocturne mauve
Oh oof
jagged crescent
I suddenly hear a thousand voices, crying . . .
in relief
drowsy idol
Leo pta could get a 1 degree buff or a lower profile that’d be helpful
jagged crescent
I still want a shell velocity buff on the 113 tho since it's supposedly apcr
regal grove
Seeing that whited out name puts a smile on my face
remote oriole
The reactions appear to be very imbalanced, I think they should be nerfed
flat bane
I'm pretty sure that Egirl was a troll.
unique scaffold
That's enough. Let's get back to balance please
remote oriole
Something I wanted to add earlier when I was talking about the effects of normalisation; normalisation actually changes the flight path of the shell upon hitting spaced armour (and tracks count as spaced armour). That seems trivial but it can really ruin your day since most space armour is subject to double overmatch which means that the flight path can change a great deal
drowsy idol
T22 medium noises
nocturne mauve
T-22 medium’s ricochets are from the V shape hull, and sometimes pike nose
drowsy plaza
Correction: ‘rarely from the pike nose’ (unless it’s a stock tier 9 gun or someone who’s blind)
coarse harness
Buff the powercrept T8 meds🙌
pastel cairn
Can the Churchill GC get an alpha buff or at least make it so it doesn't see tier 7's in battle? Cuz it shouldn't have to go against the you know what
drowsy plaza
Clearly you never played it in +/-2
pastel cairn
I guess
plush perch
Correction: ‘rarely from the pike nose’ (unless it’s a stock tier 9 gun or someone who’s blind)
@drowsy plaza yes , my t54 with 201mm ap
drowsy idol
Are we allowed to talk about reducing xp needed for a gun especially t54 and leopards
I had to gold them with my ad gold
lucid jetty
su101 buff dpm when
plush perch
all tier 9 require more than 100k fxp to get top gun
lucid stone
Who knowns something about matchmaker ? Why I play about 75% battles against higher tier ? Because I play on Desktop or ...
plush perch
it already requires 100k xp to get top modules ( gun and turret)
crystal spoke
@lucid stone its a combination between the possibility of the tier higher being more popular and thus more people to match at that moment and (i forget the term for it) when someone is specifically looking for something (in this case getting low tiered ) they tend to miss the other inputs or they won't notice it as much when they are the top/same teir as much as being bottom teir
unique scaffold
The tiger two needs its nerf. Even only 20mm is enough. All I am asking is to be able to pen it with pramo while it is even slightly angled from another heavy gun. I legit cannot pen it with premium ammo in most of my t8 heavy tanks. I can usually work around tanks that are a bit over the top, but I just can’t with the tiger, even if it isn’t a pro playing. It is like an auto bounce 50 percent of the time
round bluff
they're gonna ☎️ tell 👂 ⏪ you 🎮 to 🔫 ✝️ aim 🏹
unique scaffold
Majority of tier 8 heavies do have the prammo to pen the tiger 2 though
turbid smelt
some can go through ufp with standard lel
fathom vault
Too many white winrate newbies score more than 3.000 damage by only spamming missile from safe covers. I know they usually turn into true newbie's form if you push them but hey it's 7v7 game, you got smoked if you expose. And who put armor on a light tank with decent pen and derp alpha?
karmic portal
If they doing 3k form missiles they ain’t noobs but ok
cerulean apex
Please remove atgms
strong hornet
Can the KPZ 70 get its 9 degrees of gun dep and proper 152mm of pen/HE damage? I know atgms are a hot topic.. BUT HISTORICALLY... it could fire atgms as the gun was basically a longer Sheridan gun. I'd be happy with the gun depression and maybe slight dpm buff. Also make the IS3/8s armor not butter. Thanks.
stiff edge
i dont think blitz cares about realism much
nimble zodiac
IS-3 is a god tier hulldown heavy in terms of armor, and IS-8 is a heavium, play them that way
pastel cairn
ok
plucky surge
voice chat implementation
I've come from switch warface and some old PC games. I have been spoiled by the joys of VC and can't live without them in these... times.
versed atlas
I was wondering.... the kranvagn has really poor dpm.... 32 seconds for 1200 damage, I would really hope WG to buff it up to maybe 31sec or 30sec....
nimble zodiac
I mean, it has a lot going for it though'
versed atlas
If its not possible, maybe give it back its 12 degrees of gun depression since its what makes this line so special, and also what makes it unique
unique scaffold
You forget it’s still in testing
plush perch
@unique scaffold it is out of testing now
versed atlas
not so wise after all 😐 lmao
jagged crescent
113 AP shell [x3]
Also,
makes this line so special, and also what makes it unique
You ever saw an autoloader that can reliably hulldown? 9 degrees is plenty
unique scaffold
To be fair I haven’t been following on it since I’m not interested in it but 12 gun dep is out of the question any educated person would know that would be utterly broken @versed atlas and don’t try to act all smart
karmic portal
It’s so slow tho. 30km only
sleek plover
It’s so slow tho. 30km only
@karmic portal Probably a better hull turn rate
plush perch
it is okay if we wont have broken tier 10 for once
unique scaffold
😂
ionic kraken
Quick question regarding the T-2020, was it meant to be a bad tank for a large price, just cuz 2020 is a bad year and the tank with that number has to be equally bad or what? Cuz my friend who has it says that it's stupidly underwhelming as a heavy. Why not buff it's armor profile a bit, so at least it would require gold ammo to do the job.
In his mind ,,Tanks like the T-2020 have a chance of becoming OP and becoming crate only in the future, just to make people regret not getting one when it was in stores"
plush perch
@ionic kraken why did ur friend bought it?
unique scaffold
@umbral knot the KV 2 is ok at its curren performance but the Smasher has to be nerfed. I would say it has to be a KV 2 with faster reloade but worse HE/AP pen.
compact nymph
The KV-2 doesn’t need a buff because if you want actual efficiency just play a KV-1s which allows you to grind both HT lines.
light geode
or just put the t7 gun on bruh i think its a 100mm or something, the 152 is meant to be played for fun
compact nymph
The 152 being bad isn't the only problem. The chassis housing that gun is also mediocre. It's slow, has no armor and is extremely tall. The KV-1s is just way better at everything.
plush perch
well yes but no . kv2 with zis has more dpm than kv1s and kv1s on dpm is bad
compact nymph
The KV-2 has better dpm, marginally better dispersion (0.009 lower) and thicker armor on the sides and rear of the hull. The KV-1s is roughly better at everything else and overall has a much more usable chassis. Edit: @plush perch The KV-2 with the 107 at least can pretend to have a workable gun, unlike the 152. But that 107mm by no means saves the chassis it’s mounted on to be slow, tall and poorly armored for such a big and sluggish vehicle. KV-1s > KV-2
plush perch
@compact nymph both are good
lilac venture
Pls nerf Vickers light and Vickers CR's Armor, especially the mantlet, just insane knowing CR's mantlet bounce 328 AP pen shots from 183 milimeter gun at 50 meters, also the hull is too tick, it shouldn't bounce shell, just made it feels like batchat in terms of armor. Thank you
unique scaffold
No @umbral knot everyone can smh
sleek plover
The 183mm cannon should be added to the Fv4005 like it originally has. Or give us the option to have both 120 auto loader or the 183. If I’m not mistaken the Foch was given the choice to switch between two different cannons after only originally having one. I doubt it will be “game breaking.” Just balance the damn thing properly.
latent snow
We don’t need or want another 183
hollow thistle
Please buff the vindicator! When it was released it was very nice to play, now it’s hell to play with the new maps that have so many hills that make it useless because of its s*it depression
compact nymph
The kv 2 does cost more and if played correctly is better than kv-1s and yea why can vicker cr pen front of IS 8 it doesn't make sense
@umbral knot The KV-1s is way better than the KV2 and it’s a fact. Also, what doesn’t make sense? The fact a heavium doesn’t have impervious armor when sitting in the open against a Vickers CR?
hardy hazel
Pls nerf Vickers light and Vickers CR's Armor, especially the mantlet, just insane knowing CR's mantlet bounce 328 AP pen shots from 183 milimeter gun at 50 meters, also the hull is too tick, it shouldn't bounce shell, just made it feels like batchat in terms of armor. Thank you
@lilac venture bruh the hull armor is ok, only the gun mantlet is "op"
unique scaffold
CR is broke for skilled players imo. You actually don’t need a brain to play vickers CR
round bluff
vickers cr > fv4202 in a tier 10 game
unique scaffold
Fv4202 is just straight up bad unless you are a really skilled player
jagged crescent
B-but hesh1!1!1!1!
twilit crystal
Cr should be nerfed to 90% crew levels for everything
latent snow
Except speed
hardy hazel
So HESH is the thing that saves 4202 from being garbage? Because every time i say something about that tank some one just say "but it has HESH" and this solves every single complain about it lol i dont understand
And yeah cr is better than cent and 4202, you have speed, camo and much much better turret armor, the only thing you dont have is premium HESH but thats not a problem, you dont need that to success or be relevant to the current meta
nocturne mauve
Tell me why more track absorption’s are happening, it even occurred to an SP 1C
plush perch
same happened to me when it should not
old coral
Matchmaker is aweful with the lopsided teams
nimble zodiac
Well the HESH also is the only thing keeping 183 from being garbage... kinda...
latent snow
This is ridiculous
full token
Lol great luck you had
jagged crescent
so if tracks are in general, harder to go through, maybe i should use the e100 more often
remote oriole
The E100 is very strong when sidescraping not only because of the tracks
karmic portal
I was in e100 yesterday and the noob wz113 kept shooting my tracks through the front trying to pen my sides, I blocked 5 shots from him
nimble zodiac
They didn't deal no damage because they hit the tracks, they didn't deal damage because they shot too low, hit the tracks, went through, and whizzed under the hull
round bluff
Esport ready game Esport ready game
muted rampart
@karmic portal @remote oriole @jagged crescent e100 has really weird angled sides, but tarcks are probably the most annoying weakspot on this tank, because if you angle your hull, you can easly pen the first wheel, doing damage and detracking the tank at one shot
nocturne mauve
Since when does every single tank have E100 track strength
99% of today’s track shots are absolute BS, it’s not even to do with aiming, I shot the top layer of tracks on an SP 1C and it only gave him the yellow damage indicator
nimble zodiac
Most tank tracks can take a hit or two depending on the shell that hit it, higher caliber shells tend to knock modules more
rustic granite
Could the t49 90mm gun maybe get a penetration buff. The smasher can now take out a t49, the smasher is a whole tier lower. It can hardly pen the smasher
dense walrus
Don’t play the 90mm then
karmic steeple
The 90mm gun is good anyway idk how u aren’t penning a smasher
unique scaffold
First of all why are you facing a smasher frontally
Ironically enough smasher can take out anything dunno why you would say that for 49 and if the 152mm can pen the smasher the 90mm can
winged barn
Nah, first of all why are you using the 90mm
crystal spoke
Except for grinding there's no point
rustic granite
I meant to say the 152mm gun can hardly pen the smasher that gun needs pen buff
unique scaffold
It doesn’t really need any buffs because it’s fine how it is if you can’t pen switch to HE and aim for the lower area your bound to track it giving it a pen buff can cause a bit of problems
raven dawn
Buff is3 side armor. It doesn’t feel solid and should be buffed so that it becomes much better in reverse side scraping
Based on what i see in blitzhangar the lower part is 30mm! This is extremely bad for side scraping. It should be an auto bounce for the lower part of the side, (or at least thicker armor) and should have 100 side armor in the middle so it is more viable
karmic steeple
U shouldn’t be relying on reverse side scraping anything
unique scaffold
Yes please buff the 152mm on the T49. I already have a blast in that tank. Let's make it even better
raven dawn
It’s a nice option nonetheless
raven dawn
On WZ 113 G FT buff the sides of the front so we can at least turn a little before it’s pennable, and 1 more deg of gun depression would feel perfect
jagged crescent
113 AP shells cmonn
heavy yarrow
Yeah the Wz has been power creeped
autumn zodiac
It never had a place to begin with the TD I mean
robust hull
I bounced three shots today in a sheridan side armor. In this afternoon. DRIVING A E3.
I can’t describe how much I want this tank to be reworked. Remove that bs spaced armor and atgms
slender shard
I done that too with Bulldog
drowsy idol
Yea fv 183 too @umbral knot
Kv2 wasn’t supposed to be good it’s an optional route for masochists and derp addicts. And why would you want a he buff if it’s the thing that makes it 20 sec reload
nimble zodiac
also 183 gets hella accurate if you wait long enough
Maybe knock it down to a 545/490/700, and make other needed changes to accomodate
distant river
183 is tolerable how it is, KV2 is not. When played well the 183 is a competent tank but the KV2 is just stupid. Not only can you one shot tanks you have amazing dpm and HE pen to go with it. The 152 can't be balanced at tier 6.
sudden path
Yeah but unless stalin is literally sitting behind you you cant do crap in the kv2. It's way too troll
karmic portal
I really hope they don’t nerf the vickers line. We need some strong tanks that aren’t just heavys
thick rover
I hope they don't nerf E4 line we need some op tds too!
sudden path
The cr needs a nerf, but the 301 and the vickers light are balanced. Strong, yes, but balanced.
karmic portal
I don’t even want the cr to have a nerf. There are a ton of other tanks that are above the rest. Let a light tank be one of them for once
nocturne mauve
301 is a bit OP
karmic portal
Just the same like all other strong tanks. No reason why it should be nerfed and not them.
vale sun
Well... it outclasses:
-the PTA
-the type 61
-the m46 patton
-the amx 30 prot (somehow)
Sure, let's just leave it as it is :v
sleek plover
Kv13 needs a buff ...🤓
karmic portal
Maybe they should be the ones getting a buff, just saying, cause all the heavys got hp buffs
jagged crescent
113 AP shells
unique scaffold
don't worry guys. Matchmaking is "fair" and "balanced" you don't have to worry about a thing. Look at this absolutely normal "fair" and "balanced" matchmaking here
karmic portal
It’s not that uneven. You have a N1tro toon in batchats, two e100s and a maus
jagged crescent
ur complaining about somethings that's random and despite having a FL-TH player, a N1TRO toon, and yourself, you still have the pessimistic mindset to predict a loss?
I think what needs to be fixed is you
graceful garden
@unique scaffold How to win: git gud and stop crying. Both sides have players from respectable clans - frankly, that's actually one of the best examples of MM I've seen recently. You are the only factor you can control, and judging by your attitude, you're the reason you all lost.
crystal spoke
60%ers have the same mm as a 30%er the only difference is one of the two has learned to deal with this and improve themselves until they have a guarantee there's a 60%er on their team every game while the other has not learned to cope with the delt hand
mental pasture
@unique scaffold OP tanks won't be a problem for you if you also know how to deal with them. Even T-22 Medium and Smasher have their own weakspots, use this weakness as your strength and matchmaker will never be a problem
gloomy gull
I feel like a lot of the premiums at tier 8 could use buffs especially the high caliber meds
jagged crescent
T-34-2's doing fine
the ones with the 90mm guns aren't doing so fine
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold OP tanks won't be a problem for you if you also know how to deal with them. Even T-22 Medium and Smasher have their own weakspots, use this weakness as your strength and matchmaker will never be a problem
@mental pasture I was talking about the double IS4 KRONO platoon. And they also have cruel. And the two bat-chats did nothing for our team but camp where the TDs sit
Edit: also I would shoot the hull and lower plate of the IS4 tanks with APCR (so it was 100% black) and all 6 of my shots bounced
mental pasture
Matchmaker have no idea about who's a good or a bad player or tank, do your job well as teammate and carry them, this is why 60% players have this WR. They do their work instead of conplaining
Complaining*
Hur dur, matchmaker put an IS-4 on enemy team only because I was playing as Maus, super rigged battle, it's not as like if enemies were struggling to penetrate me too
jagged crescent
KRONO, CRUEL, who cares.
Why don't you step up as a player and beat them?
IS4 tanks aren't impenetrable either. Aim. Flank. There's loads you can do.
What you shouldn't be doing is going WAHWAHWAHH in a discord just becaues you see a bunch of scary clan tags
unique scaffold
How do you flank a IS4 being played by krono while he is focusing you and ur in a maus? And #2 ur "aim" thing isn't valid either because it's now proven that ur peanut of a brain didn't see where I said that I loaded APCR and it still bounced off black 6 times? You might need to spend some more time observing and less time taking out your toxicity on other members of the game/server. :)
Edit: also I don't recall going "WAHWAHWAHH" maybe that's a fairy tale you came up with?
ionic ivy
aim better 4head
karmic portal
Shot went under tank*
unique scaffold
Shot went under tank*
@karmic portal if you're talking about me. No it didnt. I saw where it bounced and it bounced off lower plate. I have bullet holes on bud. It shows where it bounces.
Edit: also the IS4 tanks were not even 50 meters away.
karmic portal
Wasn’t talking to you. And yeah aim better. It sucks when the enemy are in is4s and normally I would feel bad for you but you were in a maus and had an e100 platoon so idk what to say. If you sent a replay maybe people would believe you
unique scaffold
Aight. Want the replay in DMs?
karmic portal
Sure
bold ermine
I wonder it too. Could you send me? @unique scaffold
lilac venture
@lilac venture bruh the hull armor is ok, only the gun mantlet is "op"
@hardy hazel
Side armor is too bouncy bro
jagged crescent
U couldn’t pen with gold rods? Wowowowowo
karmic portal
He had the case when he zoomed in on the upper plate, it was gray and maybe tiny a tinge of red, exited sniper mode, shot, and bounced of the upper plate. Basically he could have low rolled on pen or the tank moved slightly so it bounced
Those guys had 60% winrates. Not saying that means a crazy ton but they were at the same level of the guys he was complaining about on the enemy team
graceful garden
@unique scaffold Learn to play better. The playerbase is the same for everyone, and so is the matchmaker. You aren't good at the game because of your pessimistic and narcissistic attitude. Those guys got good because they put in the effort to be able to influence the outcome of their matches, which is why they're 60% superunicums and you aren't. Whining on Discord over ONE MATCH is just going to earn you the scorn and ridicule of everyone with brain cells here. Even if it's unwinnable, vent, suck it up, play better, and keep on going.
Naturally, you're just going to make some excuse about "oooh wah wah wah i couldn't do it because i was tunneled and hurr durr durr", and I can't change your mindset, judging by how you act. Only you can change your mindset and your winrate.
tender lagoon
Does anyone think IS3 defenders she’ll reload is to long. I don’t mind long magazine reloads but not shell reload as well
coarse harness
You can one clip many T7s and T8 TDs so no
unique scaffold
Does anyone think IS3 defenders she’ll reload is to long. I don’t mind long magazine reloads but not shell reload as well
@tender lagoon yes I agree also. The shell reload is 7 sec dude. That's what... 31 seconds to go from reloading the clip to emptying it and it's armor isn't very good. Yes you get a troll bounce here and there but that's all. It doesn't have much armor
tender lagoon
Glad it’s not just me. I seem to get slaughtered just waiting for magazine and shell reloads. Not worth the gold. What armour 😂
fickle fiber
War gamming has the right of changing collector tank's stats (smasher cough cough)
weary scaffold
How about balance the match maker. First game. Tier 8. Obviously this is Asia server. Considering how much money you make from encouraging kids to gamble with daddy’s credit card, I’m pretty bored with basic game mechanics not being maintained. Asia is just a sad meme
coarse harness
The first few battles are tier limited so idk
scarlet fjord
Buff the IS-7's APCR penetration to 320-330
Or buff the power to weight ratio and make it like the 113's forward mobility
one of these
or just buff the aim time significantly because its not the fastest its armor isnt really the best so why does it have such a trash gun?
pls either make the gun better or the tank itself better its getting tier 8 level accuracy for tier 8 level of penetration and the mobility and armor arent even that special
tender bison
it wont wg will just make other tanks better to make the smasher irrelevant
keen lily
Can we agree to buff M48 Patton. To be honest it lacks its shine you know, I mean you rarely even see the beast that's not even scary especially when it gets overshadowed by E5 because it practically feels the same.
untold chasm
Should I buy obj140( Its the last russian tier 10 I need) or buy leo pta and continue grinding for leo
scarlet fjord
you dont really need 140 if you have 62a for pubs
for tourneys tho 140 is useful
thin lichen
Man wz-110 is actually trash lol
compact nymph
It’s pretty decent. I didn’t hate playing it at all.
turbid smelt
@scarlet fjord how is 140 useful in anything
@! give japan highe...
wait till you realize e50m does 60kmph
drowsy idol
+5km!!!1!1!
jagged crescent
140 low profile
blissful vigil
U shaped hull
nocturne mauve
AP
fiery dagger
Higher P/W ratio
random bear
T22 needs front hull armor buff...NO KIDDING
nimble zodiac
Well we’re not going to agree as far as I know
nocturne mauve
Nerf T92’s gun handling, it is absolute BS because it snapshots so often
There must be some sort of bug or something, why are tracks always absorbing shots
nimble zodiac
@nocturne mauve hmu with clips or replays + timestamps
Errbody hmu with track shots that you believe are flawed
plush perch
@nocturne mauve same happened to me , tracks of t34 absorbed my shot , lately it is happening too much
nocturne mauve
252u has a good standard pen and plus it’s AP(5 degrees of normalisation), so it should definitely pen this
plush perch
@nocturne mauve as u can see it only hit tracks and not tracks wheels , mine hit side of t34 and it absorbed
hearty steeple
Could have hit like this
remote oriole
@nocturne mauve Do you have the replay? (If yes, please post it in #replays (I’m trying to figure out how the different armour-mechanics work in Blitz))
midnight fable
@nocturne mauve I track tanks like that all the time without doing dmg. It's annoying. Whatever rng.
remote oriole
Well, 1224 here is most likely right. I examined it and let the AI of Wotinspector calculate the shot and it all agrees that the shot went through the tracks and hit the frontal plate (please not that tracks appear to normalise the same way as flat side armour does)
scarlet fjord
@scarlet fjord how is 140 useful in anything
@! give japan highe...
wait till you realize e50m does 60kmph
@turbid smelt Obj 140 is used in tournaments its the go to tank for pro teams
its useful because its an amazing combination of amazing DPM nice mobility and nice hull armor
nimble zodiac
Also 140 has a more penetrating gun, for the lack of 5 extra pen is really made up for by normalization
jagged crescent
113 shell velocity buff yes yes
nocturne mauve
I’d prefer AP, too many tier X have crappy APCR
jagged crescent
113 with AP might be broke since switching to AP is a considerable pen boost so I’ll just be happy with faster shells. The APCR on the 113 be slowwww
stiff trellis
buff dpm for vk 9001p
jagged crescent
bruh
open walrus
Guys, just want to let you know latest version is extremely laggy, have same exact configurations and network connection and ever since I upgraded, been loosing over 25% packets and ping skyrocketed to over 250ms when it normally was below 60 or 80 ms.
graceful garden
because that totally belongs in #tank-balance-discussion
nimble zodiac
@open walrus #585464006936887306 here you go :D
@lean root that is because the SU is a tank destroyer, meant to have a more powerful gun
lean root
the Pz IV A's reload needs to go down by a bit, the SU-76 that does more damage has a lower reload
mental pasture
You're comparing a TD gun to a medium tank gun, lol@lean root
SU-76 is a tank destroyer for a reason
lean root
You're comparing a TD gun to a medium tank gun, lol@lean root
SU-76 is a tank destroyer for a reason
@mental pasture ye but arent low tiers supposed to be "balanced to allow for new comers"
mental pasture
Nah, SU-76 is balanced also PZ 4D too
frail silo
@tender lagoon yes I agree also. The shell reload is 7 sec dude. That's what... 31 seconds to go from reloading the clip to emptying it and it's armor isn't very good. Yes you get a troll bounce here and there but that's all. It doesn't have much armor
@unique scaffold you mean 14(intraclip)?
also use the turret
humble spear
@lean root if a td has less dpm than a mt won't that be kinda useless
the Pz IV A is a medium tank that isn't meant to have a great gun, what it does gain is flexibility. The SU-76 has no turret and as a result should typically mount a better gun
lean root
@lean root if a td has less dpm than a mt won't that be kinda useless
@humble spear no but su-76 alpha more than pz iv a
crystal spoke
Depends on the other stats
nimble zodiac
Sacrificing the turret could mean a lot
Well yes but a medium shouldn't overtake the quality of another class
ionic ivy
meds were made to be adaptable to any role, so it makes sense they inherit traits from all classes
jagged crescent
They shouldn’t outrageously exceed either
winged barn
Dont worry, nothing below tier 5 matters anymore. The might as well delete all those tanks
lean root
Sacrificing the turret could mean a lot
Well yes but a medium shouldn't overtake the quality of another class
@nimble zodiac ye but then again pz iv a has absolutely no armor and less HP then even tech tree T3 lights
nimble zodiac
No armor dictates speed, somewhat at least
ionic ivy
no, armor and weight are separated. Don't know why, but WG already threw realism out the window so why not
jagged crescent
effective armor* and weight is separated
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold you mean 14(intraclip)?
also use the turret
@frail silo use the turret on flat grounds?? What idiot is gonna aim for the turret of a Soviet heavy when they can hit the hull and almost confirm a pen?
proven ocean
Buff IS-2Sh side armor. It had a selling point that it “has good side armor” and “can sidescrape” You try sidescrape against most tanks and you realize that it’s extremely inconsistent. Even the Lion has more consistent side-armor and that’s ironic.
nimble zodiac
Given the Lowe also could expose the frontal plate during a sidescrape, I don't think you make a point by saying it can sidescrape better
frail silo
@frail silo use the turret on flat grounds?? What idiot is gonna aim for the turret of a Soviet heavy when they can hit the hull and almost confirm a pen?
@unique scaffold there is also a thing called facehug very effective with is3 btw
and reverse sidescraping if there is distance and obstacles
yeah IS3D and IS3 is not entirely useless or dead on flat ground
low needle
@proven ocean the IS-2h has armour?
unique scaffold
@proven ocean the IS-2h has armour?
@low needle good sidescrapp tank
coarse harness
With 60mm armor behind the tracks ?
Nice joke
The only good thing about that tank is the above average russian gun handling
last shadow
Who ever said: "oh no its a is2 sh, run!"
remote oriole
My platoonmates 😈
coarse harness
Give T54E1 HE shells and buff the armor on the Tortoise
turbid smelt
@turbid smelt Obj 140 is used in tournaments its the go to tank for pro teams
its useful because its an amazing combination of amazing DPM nice mobility and nice hull armor
@scarlet fjord are you serious? I mean no offense but 140 feels and on paper a worse medium tank than its peers
It does feel like poor man's 4202
last shadow
Well...the 140 seems to have slightly better hull armor than the t62a
So in wgs eyes its balanced
tender bison
oi the 4202 is great, i love that tank, bro u can pen the bottom plate of an is4 with hesh
last shadow
Good sentence
"You CAN..."
Its not absolute
Still random to some degree
muted rampart
@last shadow +1. 4202 needs more apcr pen and some turret armor
turbid smelt
@muted rampart it would be broken if they buff turrent
muted rampart
@turbid smelt Nah it won t, because it s slow as f***
turbid smelt
it has above average acceleration and it can maintain most of its speed while turning....
@harbinger
nope, haven't seen 140 in tours
generally they have t22 medium for it
scarlet fjord
@scarlet fjord are you serious? I mean no offense but 140 feels and on paper a worse medium tank than its peers
It does feel like poor man's 4202
@turbid smelt dude have you even seen let alone played in pro tours?
140 is shit in pubs its great in tourneys
muted rampart
@umbral knot it s tank for fun. Not for grinding. If u want to grind just research kv 1s and leave it alone
twilit crystal
I mean I bounce just as often on the 140 turret as the 4202
fiery dagger
@muted rampart The 4202 is definitely not slow, while it can maintain a 40+ speed uphill thanks to it's amazing effective P/w ratio.
compact nymph
But it cost more than kv-1s
@umbral knot then play the KV-1s instead.
nocturne mauve
Alright then, 0 damage because of these stupid shots
dense walrus
second shot you hit drive wheel and then upper plate
turbid smelt
@nocturne mauve in the first clip you hit the most balanced part of 252 u
but still quite a stretch to do 0 when your tank doesn't have decade long reload and speed nowhere as good as tog
nocturne mauve
Everyone does 0 damage sometimes, and that gun kept trolling me, it’s just an unlucky match for me
vale sun
4202 mobility is not a problem
remove the fire hydrant on top so it can bait shots with the roof and give it slight dpm and handling buffs
nocturne mauve
Or, replace with the centurion ax
winged barn
Why? That thing is significantly taller.
And you lose an impenetrable upper plate. To get what, the same style of turret?
How would the AX be a better tank?
wise dirge
@scarlet fjord Not sure if it’s just my team or anything, but we either run a t22, a light tank, or even a progetto if it fits the build, we never take 140s over those options
twin bison
yes, i dont understand why IX. tier T54E1 dont have HE shells
unique scaffold
@wise dirge eu meta is wack
stiff edge
what
ionic ivy
You're still here and have been playing blitz for 1 hour, sooo
wise dirge
@unique scaffold Understandable, too big brain for me to comprehend lol
nimble zodiac
Rude ._.
jagged crescent
<@&481447501690568709> someone dropped their baby bottle and he's very upset
very upset
wise dirge
I don’t think the general population of any server is much better than any other, I know people who play on both servers and have similar stats on both at tier 10
By both I mean NA and EU
wise dirge
Never
wise dirge
It’s funny because by smasher standards that isn’t even really good
gleaming apexBOT
b1scuityo (Maciej)#9279 has been warned.
unique scaffold
Smasher sucks. It is so boring after playing 200 battles. Too good to have fun. Maybe it can at least have some sort of challenge if y’all nerf it. You can do armor don’t do my precious dpm
vale sun
honestly why does the standard B have so much while the T54e1 has so little, there's just no comparison
turbid smelt
T54E1 had awkward armour profile, quick burst damage and very good dpm for autoloaders or reloaders
I would love it to have any form of HE shells tho
ionic ivy
I thought 54e1 was fine without HE. It did make my life easier in that I didnt have to switch shells often
turbid smelt
yea but you loose your ability to clear lightly armoured tanks quickly
standard b on other hand gets cheap hesh rounds, which are very useful in tier 8 and 9 specially when tank is quick and doesn't suffer horrific gun handling or accuracy
jagged crescent
is the 54 handling actually that bad or
loud kernel
Is t44-100 a pay to lose tank? Just compared it to t44 in blitzstar and it seems to be worse in everything except the side skirt
vale sun
yes
scarlet fjord
@scarlet fjord Not sure if it’s just my team or anything, but we either run a t22, a light tank, or even a progetto if it fits the build, we never take 140s over those options
@wise dirge not saying 140 is the only option and T22 is better versus less experienced players pros can pen that every time tho watch some older live streams a few months back
last shadow
I honestly think the t54e1 is fine
The only disadvantage it has (in my eyes) is the awful camo rating and the fact that its fat
I dont care about the HE honestly
With the current MM you will always get uptiered and end up against maybe 1 tank with no armor (german stuff...)
low needle
@unique scaffold yesyes. Gets slapped by Blyat 10 at 30 degrees
twilit crystal
Standard b hesh isn't really that good. Its 350 vs 400 dmg
tender bison
but it's 110mm of pen
unique scaffold
Mk6 has 100+HE pen yet rarely gets used
last shadow
Cant effectively use He if there is nothing with weak enough armor
And the meta on t10 looks like heavy to me
(T8 anyway cuz too many heavy prems)
turbid smelt
@twilit crystal it still knocks out multiple module
almost guarantee to force enemies in using up their repair kits
gleaming apexBOT
Obnoxious senpai#5837 has been warned.
coarse harness
After the T10 ammo capacity buffs I'd gladly see the same in T9 with tanks like Conqueror, IS-8 etc
unique scaffold
Balance😂
nimble zodiac
Well jageroo can pull off 1500 like that
last shadow
And jag has some armor and amazing heat pen
fossil spruce
buff t49 heat pen
solemn crag
buff t49 heat pen
@fossil spruce never should happen
If it has high pen it will be broken
fossil spruce
no need to make 200mm pen. just increase it a little
iron lynx
You can just use calibrated shells, it increases the pen a little
drowsy plaza
T49 HEAT is for burning German sides
fossil spruce
well i won't post here if calibrated shell fix the problem
iron lynx
I don't really see the problem here then since T49 is intended to have bad pen on its derp 152mm.
last shadow
Giving the t49 a standard he would be good enough
full token
The HE being prammo discourages it being used often, and encourages more use of the HEAT. It’s fine that way, since the T49 can make a lot of use of the HE with the good mobility it has
winged barn
I guess the t49 needs some noob proofing
And that [below] appears to be the problem. You don't play a t49 to make credits, you play it for fun. If you can pen with HE, shoot HE. If you can't, use HEAT. If the HEAT can't pen, just splash with HE.
It is not that uncommon for me to lose 30k credits (no premium time).
last shadow
Just adding to that stuff above
Im playing my t49 with mostly heat and only 4-6 he
Just because the premium he isn't worth it for me
Normal he might make it more attractive (I think)
You don't need to explain to me how a t49 works
I have 2k+ battles in it
Im just adding my personal opinion on it
Its a great tank but it can easily be destroyed by the powercreep on t8 even HE cant save you in every situation
winged barn
The speed is very useful for exiting unfavorable situations
laughs in my most recent 7 kill
last shadow
You cant necessarily run if its a 2 vs 7
And most of the time YOU have to carry the game, because it always feels like a 1 vs 7
And carrying such a situation in a t49 is just useless
Its not a mbt more like a opportunist
If u see u can pen something go for it
Its just hard to carry in it with 100-300 HE splash on heavys every ~18 secs
crystal spoke
But if your just fighting heavies you have the advantage of being able to out spot them and use hit and run tactics to wittle them down without worrying about them being able to efficiently chase you
winged barn
*HE pen nuke in the back of an IS-X
balmy mantle
Why is it a 400 average damage player can play at tier 8 and up? Can someone explain the balance in that. Doesn't matter tank they are playing they cannot compete at the tier.
hazy nova
T49 is fine. Please don't take my HEAT.
turbid smelt
@balmy mantle
matchmaker does not care about personal player statistics
balmy mantle
Bah. It should. Its gotten to be a waste of time to play pubs.
plush perch
@balmy mantle pay attention to the game mode u are playing, it is called RANDOM for a reason
unique scaffold
“Normal HE might make it more attractive I think”
“I only play with 4-6 HE”
you don’t need to explain to me how it works
2K battles
Wheeze
last shadow
Learn how to quote properly pls
Nah im just bored tbh
meager spruce
@unique scaffold you got someone mad kekw
remote oriole
I don’t see what is wrong with his statements. I support Zis13_2016’s view
unique scaffold
The T49 relies on both rounds whenever possible and the HE is premium to balance it since any actual t49 driver would know to rely on HE more then your HEAT and if your loading that many rounds of HE something’s off the T49 is also a really decent carrier too for me as any shot to the frontal area or track area is guaranteed to track whoever’s pursuing you or in your sights
last shadow
Thats YOUR personal opinion
And i stated MINE so everything is good
Also what do u mean with "that many rounds of HE" (if that was towards me) its only max 6 rounds
jagged crescent
If you have a maximum of 6 rounds, and u use them well, then credits shouldnt be an issue
unique scaffold
^^^why even play t49 for profits anyway when it’s well known to not be profitable
low crypt
Just
ENRICH it if you want profit....
nocturne mauve
T49 is a fun tank, having so much fun has to come with a drawback right?
autumn zodiac
I enriched mine so I could do both. It's worth the gold. But T49 if it isn't enriched isn't for making money anyhow, you shouldn't be holding back in the tank. Just like a tier 10
wise dirge
T49 seems fine to me
full token
I’d prefer to just run as many HE shells as I need, without thinking about the credit cost. The tank doesn’t make much credits anyway, so it’s pointless even loading ammo in a way that saves it, when that can make you play worse like if you load too little HE and then run out when you still have many HE opportunities.
tardy lynx
Please, please, please, please, please,please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please wargaming...
NERF SMASHEEEEER!!!!!!!!
Its horrible, its OP vs tier 8, its, its... its a sh**t
karmic steeple
Pp
nocturne mauve
If you lose against it in a tier 8, you’re trash. And yet again smasher is not invincible, the only tier 8s it might kill are the low HP paper TDS
And they won’t ever nerf the smasher, they’ll use this as a marketing strategy because people want it
plush perch
@nocturne mauve Smasher is nightmare for paper t8 tonk users , like sta , my point still stands
nocturne mauve
If you act stupid in front of it, yes
ionic ivy
Thats why you use hard cover, flank, and disengage when necessary
tardy lynx
If you lose against it in a tier 8, you’re trash. And yet again smasher is not invincible, the only tier 8s it might kill are the low HP paper TDS
And they won’t ever nerf the smasher, they’ll use this as a marketing strategy because people want it
@nocturne mauve
Yes, yes, if I lose with a tier 8 against a smasher I am trash yes, yes.. like when I am with a rhm vs a smasher platon.
Wargaming pay you or something for say this?
nimble zodiac
Well I'd expect people to lose any 1v2
Besides, Smashers are meant to annihilate any tank that its HE can easily go through, you're not making a good point because you're using the prime example of what tier 8 a Smasher can easily destroy. It's like saying nerf KV-2 because it can take out St Emils
karmic portal
Make smasher a tier 8 tank destroyer. Just buff it’s camo and maybe ap pen a bit
jagged crescent
ew no
tender bison
Make smasher a tier 8 tank destroyer. Just buff it’s camo and maybe ap pen a bit
@karmic portal nono, definitely not
polar stag
I think the smasher is the best tier 8 heavy lol
drowsy idol
Why not buff the t28
stiff edge
something has to be bad, just so happens to be the t28
deft owl
T28 is the worst tier 8 tank in game.
karmic steeple
What if instead of having absolutely garbage tanks and godly premiums we nerf the op and buff the pains to play. And then tanks just have their unique characteristics to set them apart. And for some reason this will probably controversial Bc y not. I think it’s very possible to not have absolute garbage tanks just ya know buff them. There’s a difference between a tank being worse than others and unplayable.
nimble zodiac
Tanks in the same class can have tradeoffs too
unique scaffold
PLZ: vote if you want 👍 Smasher nerf or not👎
nocturne mauve
The worst tank is Ho Ri T1
jagged crescent
Nah
carmine meteor
Please bring full freedom on control customisation
still jackal
t20 really needs a slight DPM buff, 9 seconds reload on mine, seems pretty long for 220 alpha
muted rampart
@still jackal if you max The crew, get gun rammer and food it drops to 6.7 which is quite good
still jackal
but it gets expensive mainly the food
low crypt
You better have good performance than saving credits to just have less profit than playing games with a good battle results.
turbid smelt
T49 seems fine to me
https://imgur.com/a/5Wx2TRW
@wise dirge
question regarding video
do you get stuttering audio after recording with xbox bar?
still jackal
exactly the moto of prem ammo users Rapenk
unique scaffold
Theres nothing wrong with using prem ammo though everyone does and everyone has prammo its not morally wrong to use it since you need that punch sometimes and its alpha is lowered if your playing for profits find another tank because youll bleed worse financially like that
candid steeple
WG honestly you got to fix this problem with Smashers. Today while grinding T-34-1 from 9 games I encountered Smasher in 5 games and some had smashers on both side. I wouldn't have problem with this if it was an balanced tank but cmon you had to release him in crates again ... What is new player at tier VI supposed to do when he encounters Smasher? Think I got outplayed by getting oneshoted while not being able to pen it? It's not fun to see that thing all the time. And btw don't think that I am just flaming because those were a bad games. Its just a fact that Smasher needs some nerf hammer or a restriction for how many times someone can see Smasher. There's to many of them right now. Hold end behold right after this post game against Smasher.
turbid smelt
@unique scaffold cries in st emil
du dis wg <3
plz
|
V
distant river
Give the Emil SU100Y type prammo 😍
wind plume
Hey can somebody in this chat tell the Dev to fix the Asian server
last shadow
Yeah, ehm..wait a second.
The results are printing rn.
...
Got the answer
No. - wargaming
coarse harness
@nocturne mauve the Ho-Ri T1 is like a faster Ferdinand
Not great but definitely not terrible
loud kernel
The whole Japanese TD tech tree is ferdinand
coarse harness
Not really
But the T8 is the worst of the bunch for sure
turbid smelt
tier 10 yoloing ho ri aren't fun to deal with
their tracks don't go off by one shell and it is hard to circle them in mediums...
:l
4005 has same story, specially hate its spaliner provision, so many times on eu server 4005 players just rush in, do 1380 in 4.2 s and then back off with their budget madgames engine boost, just to top it all off they also generally have spall liner which significantly reduces HE damage...
like for balance purposes make spaliner provision user take more internal module damage by he shells (so you trade with take less he damage but take more internal module damage, like increase the chance of taking internal module damage from 33% to 40%)
as per stats on paper tank seems fine without special provision or consumables
+7% isn't that high, judging how drastically spalliner reduces damage close to standard shells
it has 6.2s shell dump time without consumable? I thought it was 6 sec like 50b and rest non murican autoloader
I just checked stats, it has 6sec shell dump time
plush perch
@turbid smelt module dmg is crazy my dear , i think fv4005 is perfect as it is , @turbid smelt it is huge and can be HEed easily , imagine how trash will it become without spall liner , it also has has 6.2s intra clip without consumable
unique scaffold
Fv 215b 183 need armor buff or camo buff
ionic ivy
spall liner just makes HE deal the same as high roll AP, so you technically get more damage
turbid smelt
@ionic ivy average damage for he shells for most tanks already is at level of high roll of ap
example: high roll of 122mm ap with alpha of 400 is 500hp
which is average roll of he
similar trend is followed on most tank except high caliber ones
yea, but he shells are no longer worth the risk
as rng may make it hit gun or armour at funky angle
he don't normalize like ap
so effective dpm maybe slightly higher on he(if rng doesn't screw you up that is)
ionic ivy
I meant with spall liner. It reduces HE damage to slightly above your AP alpha, which is still pretty good, and you're paying less credits too.
acoustic shard
Nerf Both Vickers Front and side armor along with the turret armor.
turbid smelt
aim for cheeks and try not to hit mantlet
in meds and low pen heavies
in anything with penetration level of 290mm or higher, aim directly at gun(with ap and apcr of course)
Lux's cat is running on the keyboard
someone stop dat cat
(don't worri I like cats)
xd
remote oriole
That’s incorrect. The alpha is fairly close to the standard AP alpha, since most HE shells deal around 125% of the AP damage. Here a few examples:
100mm Medium:
Standard: 310
HE: 420
HE reduced: 336
100mm Light:
Standard: 310
HE: 380
HE reduced: 304
105mm Mediums (except British):
Standard: 350
HE: 400
HE reduced: 320
105 Medium and Light British:
Standard: 350
HE: 440
HE reduced: 352
120mm Heavy:
Standard: 400
HE: 515
HE reduced: 412
122mm Medium and Heavy:
Standard: 420
HE: 500
HE reduced: 400
123mm TD:
Standard: 460
HE: 550
HE reduced: 440
128mm and 130mm Heavy and TD (except French):
Standard: 460
HE: 600 (660 on the WZ-111-1G FT but this is tier ten only)
HE reduced: 480
130mm Heavy French:
Standard: 480
HE: 620
HE reduced: 496
149mm TD:
Standard: 560
HE: 640
HE reduced: 512
150mm, 152mm and 155mm TD and Heavy (except French):
Standard: 640
HE: 960
HE reduced: 768
152mm Light and 155mm TD French:
Standard: 560
HE: 680
HE reduced: 544
170mm TD:
Standard: 800
HE: 1200
HE reduced: 960
183mm TD:
Standard: 930
HE: 1300
HE reduced: 1040
(Here’s Lux, sorry about that post, my cat’s running wild again)
Source: BlitzStars
winged barn
I fire a test shot at them to see if they have spall liner. If they have it, right back to ap I go
scarlet fjord
You buffed many tanks over the years
and almost everything got tweaked a bit
but the IS-7 remains static can you give it a little bump
APCR penetration buff
or even better buff the gun handling
if neither work then maybe buff the power to weight ratio it should be 2nd in class imo
its Armor doesn't really compensate for its bad gun (bad accuracy and bad pen is a bad combination to have) also mediocre DPM
or you could buff the armor so that the upper and lower plate is stronger but this wouldnt be a smart buff honestly but it needs something at the moment its neither here nor there compared to IS-4
which is believed to have better armor more hitpoints better gun specially on the premium pen
dark glen
According to #devs-answers it should be a really small buff if it gets buffed at all. An is4 nerf would be better if you want te seperate them. Is7 does have the mobility and alpha.
plush perch
worse pen , dpm , armor , hp
scarlet fjord
it needs a bump i want it back in tourneys honestly
imo IS-7 and IS-4 should switch hit point pools
and IS-7 should get 320-330 APCR pen
remote oriole
The IS-7 got a 450 ho buff in 6.9 and an ammo capacity buff in 7.2
Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17CXsRjguuTiJVXgWHN6o3CMbN2lJbngVhVBvxK-21D4/edit#gid=1061382121
Also, the tank is by no means underperforming as #devs-answers and https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/7.1/tanks/10/heavy-tanks/ suggest
I’ll check out the BlitzStars statistics later
scarlet fjord
i was talking about buffs on the tank specifically
when it received a hp buff
every heavy tank in the game at tier 10 also did so it didnt get ahead of its heavy tank competition really much
it did receive more than usual hp but not enough to put it out there
and the IS-4 has more hitpoints still which i disagree with
and the ammunition capacity buff isnt going to improve the performance of the tank
it might become useful at farming bad players in pubs if you run out of AP to fire 460 alpha rolls a little more but other than that its pointless
or maybe fire a little more APCR shells at some hull down tanks
nimble zodiac
It's much more fun in pubs though
dark glen
Is4 has 53 more dpm, wow what a game breaking difference! Not to mention that DPM often isn’t the most important stat since you more often than not fire on reload. Keeping in mind the alpha difference, the is7 isn’t underperforming at all in theory in that category.
Same aim time, slightly worse dispersion than is4, but it’s nothing too bad.
Is7 has 2 MM more pen on standard ammo, it’s gold rounds are far worse though. (Which is where the important difference is gun wise imo, altough heat can be annoying as gold). An underrated difference however is the mobility of the is7.
The armor of the IS4 just is more allround and it makes the is4 more tanky.
But all in all, the is4 is over performing (due to its tanky, allround nature) more so than the is7 is underperforming. A slight gold pen increase might be nice, but really, a slight is4 nerf would be better imo.
orchid grove
IS-7 does indeed underperform in damage per battle on #devs-answers
Personally, all it needs IMO is 10mm more nominal hull armor on the front, and a gun handling buff, to maybe like .16/.16 or something
distant river
I adore my IS7 but it doesn't really need a buff.
Its an average tank compared with tier 10 in general. Compared to heavies, it's on the low side because heavies have been overbuffed and now control the meta until you are a unicum when meds are not only equal to them. The IS7 is also a med abuser which doesn't fit in with the 3x heavy 3x TD 1 light meta we have so it's going to struggle a bit anyway
If you want to balance it at tier 10, then leave it how it is. If you want to balance it according to heavies then it needs small buffs probably on armour.
plush perch
hp buff on is7 , hp nerf on is4 ez
nimble zodiac
Lol no, IS-7 struggles on damage output apparently, so I'd go for the gun
dark glen
@distant river agreed there, it’s more a case of slightly nerfing heavies than a case of buffing the is7. But a 10 MM increase or something in gold pen wouldn’t make a huge difference but could be welcome.
winged barn
Remember when the hp buff the provisions gave to the 215b was too much so they nerfed its hp pool? buffs literally every heavies hp pool
What could go wrong?
distant river
Actually thinking about it, jUsT gIvE tHe Is7 cOnSuMaBlEs
I think that basically at small buff to any part of the tank would be acceptable (just not it's traverse speed it makes it require braincells to use), so from that it's basically personal preference. Actually thinking back to when I played it a lot I realised that the armour profile was almost perfect because it's grey enough to bait shots but red enough to bounce most of them, so maybe even a 5mm buff would be enough and then small gun buffs.
The best way I can think of describing it is that the IS7 is a great tank, just stuck at 90% crew
karmic steeple
Buff upper plate and make it a tier 10 252u ez
unique scaffold
I think if you added a med line of atgms from like tier7 up it would balance out the sheridans
jagged crescent
no
nocturne mauve
Nerf some tier 7 tech trees, nearly all of them are overcooked, like for example the black prince
plush perch
bp is fine , smasher exists so dont
nimble zodiac
BP requires that you sit in front of it for too long
coarse harness
BP is always late from the party but once it arrives...
Oh boi
I use adrenalin and reactive armor so I just drive forward and melt down the tanks in my way one by one
sudden path
T29 best heavy tier 4 tier. Amazing turret, decent hull armor, nice alpha, decent gun stats, and the op consumables and provisions? Crazy.
nocturne mauve
How can you not see that black prince is broken? 3.2k DPM, special consumables, ton of HP and good armour
remote oriole
I blame Wargaming balancing for being an imbalancing department in case of the Black Prince
unique scaffold
Imagine caring about t7 and Lower
distant river
Imagine caring 😔
remote oriole
About the IS-7. I still stand by my point that the IS-7 doesn’t need a buff, just as a fair warning. Now to the specifics:
Tournaments are not a basis for balancing. There will always be tanks that will be found to be more or less suitable for tournament. I don’t see why that is a problem. (If you were to balance tanks by appearance in tournaments you would start a unprecedented powercreep and there’s a reason why that word has a negative connotation. Actually, let me explain to you what power creep means:
Powercreep is when the threshold of tank performance moves in absolute values. It can’t be observed relatively. An example for this would be the Flynn effect concerning IQ; as the IQ is a relative value an increase can’t be noted, however, people have been scoring higher and higher in selected categories of the IQ test.
What powercreep does is that across the board, that means all tanks, will have increased values. For example a heavy tank has the accuracy now that a medium tank used to have back in 2015. That’s a substantial powercreep. Why is that bad? If the tank’s performance stays the same relatively speaking it’s not much of a problem, right?
That is because the relative difference actually shrinks. Back to the example of accuracy; 0.5 is very inaccurate, 0.4 is not exactly nice and 0.3 is insanely accurate. Or that’s how it used to be, anyways. Now 0.5 is unthinkable, 0.4 is derp and 0.35 is standard/ not exactly nice, and 0.25 is insanely accurate. The problem is just that 0.3 already is very accurate (for this game). The powercreep effectively diminished misses as a critical game mechanic.)
A gun handling buff for the IS-7... is the worst thing you could do if you cared about tank roles and variety. The tank has it’s potential in the (sometimes trollish) armour layout and the mobility in a straight line, not in the gun. It is good that we have tanks that don’t just fit the MBT description of armour-mobility-firepower
coarse harness
You have a loooot of time to write these
remote oriole
The fact that it has the lowest average damage is actually a sign of hope that it is indeed balanced in that role, and not one of those boring jack-of-all-trades.
About an armour buff... note that the strength of the IS-7 are the extreme angles. If you promote them, you will bounce many shots, if you neglect them you will eat many shots. But regardless of how you play it, please not that if you shoot it head on you will naturally see it at an angle between 60 and 65 degrees. That means that the nominal armour values are at least doubled in terms of effective armour values. You are also only ten degrees away from an auto-bounce for AP and APCR. And if you are at that autobounce angle your effective armour will be around 439mm - impenetrable.
I illustrated that to say two things:
Now, give it an armour buff and make the upper plate impenetrable for most prammo. The IS-7 will be stronger, certainly. It might even be stronger than the IS-4 which by the way has 160mm of armour with an angle of 60 degrees as its upper front plate. It is certainly possible
And I will just sit here and look at the Wargaming balancing department in disbelief, wondering why they again made a perfectly fine tank unnecessarily strong for no reason. Greetings to the Tiger I, Tiger (P), Black Prince, T29, Panther I, Jagdpanther, KV-4, Jagdtiger, T110E5, T110E3, STB-1, E50 M, IS-4 and Foch 155
@coarse harness Yes
distant river
Low tier tanks WG make unbalanced tend to be tanks that lead to long grinds or are fairly famous. The high tier tanks generally have a long and tough grind that is hard without free xp. The tiger and panther are probably the tanks that people know before playing if they aren't a tank nerd and so the tanks people will likely grind for. If they do badly then they will be put off and less likely to spend money. With the high tier tanks like the E3 you sort of need free xp to get through the line, so you either have to pay or spend more time in the game, all of which is good for WG.
It isn't really a balancing department it's more of a subtle marketing department which is absolutely horrible but it's a company so there's no way round it
dark glen
Well that maybe, but the outcry for buffs to the tigers and panthers for years might have had an influence too.
muted rampart
@remote oriole Tiger P, kv 4, e 50 M and foch are balanced. Those tanks are really Good, but none of them is broken or even overcooked. Tiger P Has bad mobility and hatch that is making armor uselles. Kv 4 is a average tank. Decent armor, good gun and horrible mobility. E50M Has good Speed, decent armor and average gun. It s accuaracy is nearly perfect, but it Has The worst DPM from all t10 mediums and it s turret armor is becoming uselles when fighting Tds or enemy is shooting Gold. Foch Has good frontal armor, but it s weakspots are obvious and everyone knows Them. The sides are he penetrable, The gun is Great but it s not op how it used to. 7 secs between shells are pretty bad. This thing is also huge and everyone is penetrating you with gold shells even into upper plate. Like I said. Those tanks are Good, but not op. And yes, all other tanks that you mentioned are overcooked or broke as f***
mental lark
PLEASE WARGAMING CAN YOU GIVE A *** FRONTAL ARMOR TO THE IS8 BECAUSE ACTUALLY ITS MORE FULL OF HOLE THAN A COLANDER
nimble zodiac
Play it like a medium, it's not really a heavy tank
median smelt
@remote oriole Hold up. When tiger I, tiger (P), black prince, t29, panther I, jagpanther became strong 😄 We are talking here about tier 7 with so bad tanks like chi ri, at7, t20 going against so OP tank like smasher, Dracula, helsing. Those tanks you mentioned are well balance. Kv 4 same, normal tank, I would even say that kv4 need more buff than he got. Foch come one seriously, maybe it is OP only in uprising, E3 isn’t strong, it is just better than E4
distant river
Tiger was well balanced then it got armour, tiger p has always been good, bp never needed the consumables or the hp buff now it's just stupid, T29 was great before the hull buff and consumables now it's just stupid again, panther 1 needed a bit of a buff but not that much now its stupid again, and jp was fine before the buff too it's just a miracle WG fixed their mistake with the sides but it's still very overcooked
nimble zodiac
Hehe, I liked the 165mm sides, and I never used JPan
twilit crystal
The t29 is more broken lol
ionic ivy
Most t9 heavies are heaviums that play better on med flank than on heavy route
deft owl
@orchid grove Yeah Is-7 definetely needs buff after Universal Heavy tank overbuffs. Good idea comrade, lets buff already Stronk tanks to oblivion. Variety is overrated anyway.
@nocturne mauve No tier 7 tech tree tank needs nerf when Smasher still exist.
winged barn
@deft owl correction, most tier 7s need a nerf, including the smasher
plush perch
How can you not see that black prince is broken? 3.2k DPM, special consumables, ton of HP and good armour
@nocturne mauve why do u think it should be nerfed ? you want to make smasher even more op?
west drum
I believe they should make the IS3 hull Armor way better
sick plover
t28 bruh moment
full token
Is3 turret is pretty good
nimble zodiac
Best turret in terms of armor
jagged crescent
awesome heavium
ionic ivy
flat top on the turret though
mental pasture
@west drum IS-3 a Heavium, it's not that supposed to block shots
jagged crescent
turret roof isn't a pen zone as it used to be @ionic ivy
ionic ivy
oh they fixed that?
orchid grove
Long time ago when the turret got the HD remodel
muted rampart
@ionic ivy In 4.5 update i believe
turbid smelt
psssst
IS7 has similar he penable weakspot to e3
which is slightly bi...
distant river
Actually no it doesn't, I tried it out in a training room and not a single HE from a jagE100 at close range aimed exactly penned. I don't know why but it just seems to not exist or not be counted as primary armour
turbid smelt
i got proof, tested 30 minutes ago
I'll record and post it
it is hard to hit because of misleading hitskins and magic rectangular box that appears
@distant river
here it is, in all its glory
it is 30mm armour with effective thickness of 64mm on flat ground
76ishmm when hulldown while using 6° of gun depression
thick rover
Hmmm
distant river
@turbid smelt Wow thanks lol I have some complaining to do about my jagE100 driver lmao
turbid smelt
@distant river it is hard to hit
I had to open hitbox of is7 on other screen to connect that shell
:D
remote oriole
Shoot below the vision port, not the vision port (it should also include the lowest bit of it if I’m not mistaken. Would have to test it)
distant river
Oh no don't say it's hard to hit I want to trash talk the guy I got to help me :(
It seems to be ever so slightly harder to hit than the E3s weakspot so not actually that useful but always a fun party trick I guess lol
west drum
It used to be the OP tank
turbid smelt
is7 wasn't ever worthy for op title
most tanks don't, just player don't understand what is exactly worthy of op title
where is my virtual hand that can pss through screens? I want to slap someone into next dimension
west drum
No I meant is3
scarlet fjord
I think if you added a med line of atgms from like tier7 up it would balance out the sheridans
@unique scaffold so your saying make the BS tanks less BS by adding even more BS tanks
remote oriole
OP is relative. It mostly depends on the performance range in a tier. There are two ways of defining it:
Relative:
If you imagine the normal distribution (or any distribution, really) with the x-axis denoting performance and the y-axis denoting the amount of tanks, you would call the outermost tanks either overpowered or underpowered. You could even definie it by saying the strongest 1% is overpowered and the weakest 1% is underpowered
Absolute:
This one is harder to describe in theoretical terms. It basically revolves around the concept of when a tank is too strong to be effectively handled by other tanks. This can be situational (then the tank would be called broken, or toxic if it inhibits the game from being played in a fun way) or general. It is hard to determine this kind of overpoweredness based on performance data. The best way to define it is probably by testing in how many situations this tank overpowers other tanks, and how likely or easy it is to get into those situations
The relative approach has the weakness that you could call tanks overpowered that overperform merely due to the skill of the players playing it. You can only partially clear that from the statistic because certain tanks enable certain skill levels more than others, creating an uneven picture. You’d have to commit to a lot of testing in order to get a picture cleared of all player influences. And after that you can compare the tank across all player skill levels, but then you encounter the problem that the tank may appear weaker in the statistics than on the battlefield when a player from a certain skill level that is more enabled by the tank plays it.
Another weakness is that tanks that don’t actually overpower other tanks might be called overpowered simply because the tier might be very balanced.
The absolute approach has the issue that you cannot possibly pin the definition down. Also, to some players a tank may appear overpowered while to others it’s perfectly balanced
iron lynx
I like your dedication to explanations, respect.
scarlet fjord
everyone has a different opinion on what OP and broken is
and generally you would ask pro tour players for advice
at any rate in my opinion OP is defined as in a tank that is out performing most of its competition
like for example the Action 10 is literally a Caernarvon but quite literally every single stat on this tank is buffed
now Broken imo is defined as a tank that completely breaks the meta and makes the top tier tanks considered to be "the best options" look like a joke
Like for example the Smasher
it has practically the same DPM as an IS-8 ( a heavy renowned for its medium like DPM with 420 alpha) but the Smasher has that DPM with 640 alpha 2 tiers below
or an even better example when the ATGM tanks were released (pre nerfs)
they completely threw any play style or armor profile or any tactics out the window and made hard cover irrelevant at times
turbid smelt
^
I agree more with this
anything that flips finger at every tank just by being stupid good and denies most to all punishment it should receive in bad positions is op in my way of thinking.
this include stupid overcooked tanks like wz 120 1ft, action x, maybe t22
unique scaffold
@coarse harness look on #off-topic-discussion
coarse harness
nocturne mauve
Lol I actually like the fact that the SU 130PM has an accurate hit model, good job with this one ahha
There’s a gap under the turret and I think it’s funny because it’s my first time I’ve missed there
winged barn
ignoring the existence of the crew
scarlet fjord
i think it flew through the gap between the turret and the hull in the rear section but could be broken hit model
remote oriole
@scarlet fjord I meant to say that everyone has a different view on what op or broken is with my initial sentence “OP is relative”. Regardless, about your opinion of OP,
I would categorise it as a mix of what I called the absolute approach and the relative approach (but a bit more on the absolute side). It is absolute in the way that it is not based around performance stats, and that only a limited amount of tanks is taken into consideration (i.e. it’s class/ playstyle). It is relative in the way that the best tank by stats is deemed op.
A weakness of this view is that if tanks with a certain playstyle are all op while regarded in isolation they are fairly similar in stats (e.g. Russian meds before the medium nerf). Another weakness would be that, as some are keen to point out, you can’t judge a tank purely by stats. The T-62A for example appears to be better than the Object 140 by stats, but the performance shown in #devs-answers doesn’t reflect that.
Strengths are that you don’t mix different playstyles which makes it difficult to compare tanks (one can argue that the T-62A and the Object 140 have different playstyles) and that it’s clear which tanks are ok an which are not.
Generally I would regard it as a good approach as long as you keep an eye on how the different playstyles perform against one another. While I prefer the theoretical and statistical relative approach I can certainly see the merits of an approach that rather looks at the stats of a tank and what role it actually fulfils in battle, and they are probably better suited for individual tank changes (although it should be noted that relative approaches can also differ between tank classes and playstyles).
coarse harness
mental pasture
@remote oriole thanks for always revive this chat for us
nocturne mauve
Good guy @remote oriole
scarlet fjord
i literally said
everyone has their own opinion
anyway i would 90% of the time not rely on the statistics of average winrate on the tank to decide if its op or not
so many factors influence those statistics to the point that they are almost unviable
the 62a is less forgiving than the 140 because the 140 can give you the occasional hull armor bounce and people dont just hull down the 62a i see them they expose their hull so often its stupid thus why the 62a has such bad stats even in above average players
the tank is obviously visually superior than a 140 even though they are different playstyles you would rather use a 62a in normal pubs any day of the week
ask any good player this question and they will say 62a
and yet the stats say differently ofc this is one big reason why i really hate the statistics wargaming use to balance tanks its unreliable
can be useful but mostly unreliable
hidden jolt
well put
ionic ivy
wargaming refuses to use wn8 as another metric
round bluff
shlubster ur wn8 is low
remote oriole
@scarlet fjord Yeah, I agreed with you on the point that there are different opinions regarding what overpowered means.
However, I want to reject your criticism of performance statistics. There is more to that than just average winrates and damage to it, and you can compare them in all different kinds of ways. I just want to point to BlitzAnalysiz() to see a whole range of different presentations of a number of performance stats. You can compare the average survival time in a tank with the spotting rate and the winrate of the player and you can see not only which strategies are most applicable for the tank, but also how well it performs compared to an ideal for its predetermined role. The statistics are incomplete and some factors are immeasurable, but they are not as unreliable as you put them. Also, for more meaningful statistics you can clear existing statistics of influences from certain factors.
About the T-62A and Object 140, they just served as a welcome example to show my point. Why the Object 140 and T-62A perform comparably can be blamed on the players and certain statistics whose influence has been underestimated or which were not obvious, but at the end of the day that’s just explaining a phenomenon after it happened. Just by looking at the stats nobody predicted that the T-62A would still perform comparably, no, quite contrarily people were worried that it would be the new super-medium which didn’t happen
That’s why stats are actually a very helpful tool when balancing, because they don’t have an opinion, and at most they are just misunderstood
round bluff
my god
distant river
How to learn English: forget reading essays, come on down and take part in #tank-balance-discussion 😂
scarlet fjord
still pointless because even if you take into account spot rat and survivability each tank has such different statistics that its insane
like a Vickers spot rat will be out of the roof
and a 183 will have extremely bad spot rate and extremely low survivability but thats because with its poor stats
no mobility no armor no camo no accuracy
you have to frontline
deal 3-5k dmg and get rushed and die because your always considered too deadly
and you cant really judge a tanks worth based on its survivability because an IS-4 survives way more than a 183
but a good 183 player can do much more damage and die
not pointless but not reliable its better to judge them on a combination of dmg and WN8 maybe just to try something new or a combination of both
nocturne mauve
Oh no(message edited because it included politics)
remote oriole
But damage and WN8 are also only performance stats:
And yes, you can see the stats of the tanks through their performance stats, and once you understood the relation of the stats to the performance stats you can change the stats and achieve the desired result in the performance stats, for example a certain average value in the spotting rate for a certain skill level for a light tank or a low survivability for a destroyer of dreams and hopes such as the FV215b (183)
@nocturne mauve I can’t, because then nobody would be allowed to talk to or about me and what I said because it could be considered modern politics which is prohibited in the rules 😦
scarlet fjord
thats true @remote oriole they do give a brief representation of what a tank is struggling to do and you compare it to its role and buff accordingly
but isnt it much more effective to literally just hire players to give advice on what needs changing it will 100% be more effective in balancing a tank
these statistics although they are handy they are deceiving
remote oriole
Wargaming has a balancing department which more or less works like hiring some players. I don’t think that players really have the answers to all balancing problems, especially since you will never satisfy everyone
plush perch
if everything is balanced then where is the point? where is the fun?
scarlet fjord
dont balance everything but at least dont let things like T28 happen
compare Tortoise to Jagtiger
Jagtiger has: More DPM more pen more alpha more accuracy more mobility more armor no hatches literally everything is better
maybe less traverse speed but seriously
winged barn
Did I hear you say you wanted another jagdtiger buff?
people take my comment seriously
low crypt
Could be an indirect buff request.
plush perch
read again , he is talking abt tortoise and t28
karmic steeple
Hes talking about how completely inferior the tortoise is to the jagdtiger
distant river
Pls buff my beautiful little tortoises gun I want to abuse it even more
The jagtiger is just boring to play now, before you had to position smart and not expose to tier 10s but now you just hide your lower plate and shoot, the tort requires thinking and skill and I honestly prefer playing it
nocturne mauve
Jagdtiger is good but really boring
edgy bison
Why is FV4005 so bad? got it recently but do't seem to be good at it, my turret get always shot... Anyone good advise?
deft owl
@edgy bison Stay back and camp. Also use HE protection which will increase your surviablity since everyone shoots HE at you.
Its an average tank and impossible to hide when you are spotted. Dont expect to do so well with it.
plush perch
very high skill ceiling , i recently got it and u r spotted , u get tunneled , u r alone , u r dead , but it is really good and has very good clip potential along with penetration
edgy bison
it's actually really bad, first spotted, first half HP, this tank honestly should recieve a lot more hit points. Then it could compete with other tier 10s. Absolutely hate it. Worst choice of my life... Grille's armor is even better then the the FV4005?!
jagged crescent
Have you ever heard of the spall liner or any of its consumables
low cliff
it's just that your turret is the size of an apartment while while grille's gun shield is smaller
fiery dagger
The 4005 is one of the most enjoyable TDs thanks to it's very high skill ceiling and flexibility.
plush perch
i would love some gun angles buff , like depression or elevation but tank is fine
coarse harness
It has 10° of gun dep mate
The elevation is sucks tho
deft owl
Oh also Fv4005 is map dependant. Its not good in corridor maps.
jagged crescent
like most glass cannons
plush perch
@jagged crescent it is kinda bad in port bay
hushed breach
where can I go and complain about Match making?
distant river
#mm-bullied-me or #general-blitz-discussion
Preferably nowhere ofc because random MM is inherently perfect
unique scaffold
@hushed breach a different server
nocturne mauve
Loads more 10k replays around, heavy buffs...
Honestly I wish these buffs were reversed because they cause so much disruption
5.5 was a positive thing, gold for non-seal clubbers
nimble zodiac
Honestly I wish 5.5 was reversed because it caused so much disruption
karmic steeple
I still don’t think the heavy buff was that bad. If you take out the maus and is4 which were clearly overbuffed, all it really did was shift the meta to heavies. Now I know everyone doesn’t like that, but it’s not game breaking, as if you look at the most recent stats heavies really aren’t out performing mediums by all that much except for the is4 and maus. What is underperforming is tds I wouldnt say by wr Bc tds aren’t really supposed to be able to carry other than dishing out a ton of damage but maybe td gun buffs might happen for that damage avg that’s pretty low. It would counter heavies but would lead to more campy gameplay. I dont really know what would be best solution but I dont see wg switching the meta back to mediums.
nocturne mauve
They did not need a HP buff, all this does is worsen gameplay by making matches so long, I tell you what, you’re 99% gonna lose if the enemy has more higher tier heavies and your team has only support tanks/lower tier heavies. It’s true because this stuff happens frequently in ratings, one team has higher tier heavies than the other team and it’s gonna take too long for that team to clear the heavies which is an unfair advantage
karmic steeple
I feel as tho that was the case with heavies b4 the buff and with mediums now. If you have more higher tier tanks of a class they can dominate one side of the map.
boreal crag
you can tell heavys didnt need a buff because ratings are 90% heavys. Mostly german ones ofc
remote oriole
They did not need a buff, without a doubt. But I think it helped diversifying gameplay by making a blatant imbalance. Now you can’t just play with both mediums and heavies at the front line as though they are the same class of tank, you actually have to flank and form wolf packs again to be effective. TDs only gained importance with their pen and alpha since they are the only ones who can still trade effectively with heavies anymore. And you can expect more flanking and strategy in general.
While it was a heavy hit for the balance I think it was an important step in making the game more interesting. The next step I’d want is to loosen the MM rules and don’t match classes 1:1 for even more imbalance and a need to actually think. So while I hate it for balance reason I love it for gameplay reasons
boreal crag
what some heavys need is a buff to keep up with the meta
Specially the IS-5, KV-5, IS-3, IS-7, E100, etc
While others is just a big nerf
Smasher, AX, T1 Heavy, BDR G1 B, etc
crystal spoke
I dont really think the IS-5 is in need of a buff its purpose isn't to be a great tank but instead a very cheap premium thats good enough to be a first and for. Its price its excellent
drowsy idol
Is 5 meant to underperform due to selling price, t34 be 5 times more expensive
winged barn
It's not even a bad tank. Don't break what isnt broken
jagged crescent
More like everything else is over juiced
tender bison
that's an interesting way to describe it @jagged crescent
lone warren
IS-3 doesn’t need a buff.
If it got buffed it would likely dominate tier 8. It’s fine how it is
IS-5 is alright, nothing amazing though
unique scaffold
Ridiculous bounces
deft owl
Heavy buffs was so stupid. The tragic part about it is they buffed premium tanks along with it which they cant nerf them now. I bet Wg will buff everything else to make this up.
tender bison
wait really? they can't nerf premium tanks?
if they cant, then they can just do what they did to the anko and make it a collectable, and nerf it like that
dense walrus
They absolutely can nerf premium tanks, and have in the past
tender bison
yeah that's what i thought. It's their game they can do whatever they want to it
unique scaffold
I like how everyone apparently forgot about how they for some reason decided to give the E3 the super consumables
orchid grove
They can nerf premium tanks, but with the exception of 5.5, no premium tanks have ever been nerfed. And no, I'm not gonna count the extremely minor model changes to a few tanks where the effect is literally unnoticeable
formal vale
^^^ It's in the ToS. WG can buff/nerf whatever they want. They just won't since people will cry about it
I personally think that WG should nerf OP prems/collectors regardless of the public reaction
twilit crystal
Also type 59 in a way but that was pre announced at point of sale @orchid grove
plush perch
i kinda like this ht meta , though some tanks needs hp nerf( like is4)
jagged crescent
make it to where the heavy tanks can only a value that's close to their current default hp if they had Improved Assembly running
plush perch
@unique scaffold ppl knew they were nerfable
tender bison
but more people will be happy if they nerf op premiums than let them ruin the mm, it's wg's game they can do whatever they want to it
hardy hazel
Why they buff heavy tanks in first place?
nimble zodiac
Because mediums had turret armor
||Please take that as a joke||
winged barn
I believe they said it was because matches were becoming too fast...
That's what happens when you keep buffing dpm without nerfing anything
karmic portal
I thought it was cause matches where too slow, with tanks just going hull down until some decided to yolo
winged barn
In the survey after the hp buff, one of the questions was if we noticed battles taking longer
ionic ivy
I just noticed a lot more steamrolls
turbid smelt
I believe they said it was because matches were becoming too fast...
That's what happens when you keep buffing dpm without nerfing anything
@winged barn
💯
hardy hazel
I thought that it was because heavys were under performing and lots of ppl were using mediums... I mean, chinese mediums have turret armor and 122mm gun, you get a lot more positive things just for the price of armor and some hp, but it isnt that much (see tier 10 heavy with lowest hp and tier 10 medium with the most hp before ht hp buff)
winged barn
The heavies weren't even underperforming. They were the top class before they all got BUFFED
coarse harness
They buffed them to make battles faster, less campy AFAIK
But since most of the players don't even know how to use a heavy it won't happening
last shadow
"In case of the battle starting please drive to the nearest bush and dont do anything."
frosty oriole
is it just me or is the fv215b sacrificing so much just for that gun while having a super uncomfortable chassis and armor?
remote oriole
It’s not just you
last shadow
Fv215b was made in a time when tanks actually had to give up some things to gain others
ionic ivy
215b is for bullying meds, not brawling heavies
twilit crystal
the 113 got pen and upper hull armor compared to the 121, also had better on the move gun handling. All the 121 has is traverse
last shadow
The 113 has amor? :heh:
solid acorn
It do have armour
compact nymph
The 113 has amor? :heh:
@last shadow it has a pretty solid turret and strong upper plate when positioned well
jagged crescent
its also a surprisingly good sidescraper. Hide the lfp, maybe tilt ur tank up 2 degrees, and boom, instant red zone.
scarlet fjord
Is it possible for the 183 to receive a buff on the dispersion factors?
i know you dont wanna buff it cuz its a controversial tank
but I'm not saying buff the actual Dispersion
just the dispersion factors while moving and traversing the hull and turret
so we can frontline more comfortably in it
jagged crescent
nah. Pretty sure it’s enough to work with considering the 310mm of pen uncalibrated
scarlet fjord
no its statistics are too low
i can drive it proerply but sometimes that dispersion factors buff feels needed
the pen is 330-ish since u have to run calibrated if u wanna HESH as much as possible
but the accuracy is needed so u can hit weakspots easier with HESH
nocturne mauve
Maybe if they reduced that alpha then yes
coarse harness
I said it many times
Reduce the HESH dmg to around 1100 and give something in return
karmic portal
Idea: make the normal he keep it’s current alpha but make the hesh have lower damage
last shadow
The point of the 183 is having that big ass gun with high alpha
If u nerf the he/hesh u might aswell play a jagero
nocturne mauve
Not really, you have a high pen HE as premium shell, and people just brainlessly spam that because it retains the same alpha as the standard HE, it should encourage people to be smart by switching shell types because the premium HE should do less damage than the standard HE
last shadow
Yeah but it's still the reason why people want the 183
Big ass gun with high dmg and pen
nocturne mauve
It’s not exactly nice being hit for 1.3k because someone can camp in a corner
karmic steeple
So accuracy on move buff might be worth with reduced alpha. Would make it less annoying when someone camps against you and make it more dynamic frontline so ppl could do that more
median socket
wise dirge
The tier 8 just looks gross
sudden path
Still probably the best on the line
Based on the gameplay
hardy hazel
But this is blitz not pc 🤔
jagged crescent
isnt it based off of pc tho
burnt venture
hey WG when are you gonna balance the Vickers CR and the Vickers LIght's mantlet armor? Cuz I'm tired of bouncing them in my Ho RI
regal grove
jUsT AiM
thick rover
oOf
candid locust
balanced,cough cough
nimble zodiac
Or don't shoot hulldown tanks on the turret ._.
@atomic summit yes
formal vale
*ignores the field of green that is the hull
atomic summit
Does the spaced armor on the turret work?
pastel cairn
Does the spaced armor on the turret work?
@atomic summit yes for the most part
nocturne mauve
Why does mk1 defender have a better turret than action x? OP
distant river
And then much much better speed.
And then a better gun (clip allows much more versatility instead of exposing so much)
Only thing it loss out on really is hull armour and that isn't really useful and dpm which also doesn't matter for a clipper like that.
But nah it's balanced 👌
nocturne mauve
It’s a direct upgrade from centurion 1, how is it balanced
distant river
21 games in it and exactly 3k average damage 👌
Isn't that enough proof it's balanced?
muted rampart
@distant river yeah it is even more balanced than is 3 defender when It First came out
potent kraken
Make heat less pen but deal way more dmg
unique scaffold
pls fix rng for fv215b183
compact nymph
nah just play better tanks
turbid smelt
Make heat less pen but deal way more dmg
@potent kraken lel that is completely opposite to HEAT shells irl
@last shadow that wasn't case before
just devs later made that change to reward more skilled players, or players who are willing to take risk by shooting lower penetration round with more damage (kinda similar to he)
last shadow
There is a reason why heat (or premium in general) deals lower dmg than standard
Cuz it has more pen...
prisma pecan
Is it balanced? 🤨
unique scaffold
SU-100Y and ISU-130 are that way, the premium AP deals more dmg but at the cost of penetration
turbid smelt
@prisma pecan it has stupid frontal armour
hearty steeple
1951 is an autoloader firstly can't exactly compare it to autoreloaders. And secondly not really no it looks quite overcooked
potent kraken
@turbid smelt oh sorry lol, i thought heat in real life have less pen but deals more dmg
turbid smelt
np
it is a chemical round
which upon detonation pierces armour with hot jet of some metal
these rounds and atgms were the reason
why almost everyone abandoned their heavy tank projects
nocturne mauve
Nerf black prince and T29
coarse harness
And buff AMX M4 45
potent kraken
Lol
unique scaffold
Watch the kran will be op and it will get nerfed
plush perch
seems balanced tbh , but when VICKERS LINE NERF
karmic steeple
Kran seems pretty balanced
plush perch
can wg improve the mm , i had a match and we dont had a single heavy tank while enemy had one so we lost ,, @fiery dagger 🤡
unique scaffold
@plush perch stop complaining @plush perch if you don’t have a heavy tank then you use your teams extra mobility or td to your advantage.. it isn’t that hard.
plush perch
why not ? it is not about teams , it is about team match up , and it happened for second time 😐 , it gives them advantage @unique scaffold , just saying , make it so things like this does not happen at all
drowsy idol
I thought complaining about mm was in general blitz discussion
plush perch
they have higher hp pool and armor , isnt that hard to understand and u know i dont control 6 of my teammates
nocturne mauve
It’s too unfair whenever one team has more heavies/more higher tier heavies because the HP pool is too imbalanced
And if you’re gonna say I’m too bad to put in 2 more shots, it’s quite vital being able to take more hits especially because heavies should rely on armour and not have huge amounts of HP as failsafe
unique scaffold
Yeah well it’s the meta and u can either complain about the meta or counter the meta. Your choice @plush perch so you might have an extra td. Having the same tanks every match makes it boring. It resolves in usually the same outcome. If the tanks are different your team has to decide which way to go that will benefit more of their tanks @plush perch you have something called dpm. Also teams hardly ever stay together
plush perch
so u r saying one team having heavy and other one is not is balanced? well then , @unique scaffold still unfair , they can push and defend while our team cant do none
nocturne mauve
Ah yes, you think my other 6 guys have the mental capacity to put in extra effort of more shots?
nimble zodiac
Well wouldn’t the enemies have to have it too? 7/6 over your team
Also why is the Matilda getting ANOTHER buff?
plush perch
@unique scaffold if u think heavies are not important , then i call you a weirdo
unique scaffold
I never said that but ok
vale sun
krav will be completely broken in slow games
it can just store its dpm for later use
also it gets reticle cal on a 1200 clip, very cool WG
distant river
looks at 4005 with reticle calibration on 1380 clip with a possible 2.1 intraclip
plush perch
@distant river well it is most dangerous tank in game if u dont give attention/tunnel ,
unique scaffold
@distant river well 4005 has no armor. Kran has impenetrable turret armor. It can’t be rushed because the kran will have supporting tds. That means it can just keep clipping tanks without taking any dmg in return @plush perch vickers line doesn’t need a nerf. Only CR turret nerf a little.
plush perch
what i am interested in is nerf for vickers line but wg said no
blissful vigil
Oof
nocturne mauve
Kranvagn has no DPM
low crypt
Kranbang will get HEAT penned and HE'd quite so often when he pokes out and it'll be the most prioritized target.
nimble zodiac
Only like 2/3 tanks can pen Kranvagn with their prem shells, and that's not even considering the gun depression
Also FV4005 will have more time to dish out damage before getting rushed if they play like a TD, assuming you think they snipe because they'll lack support if approached
@plush perch no pls don't strip the only counter-argument I have for FV4005 lacking support ;-;
plush perch
@nimble zodiac lol ok
blissful vigil
FV4005 perfect support
deft owl
@nocturne mauve Stop asking for T29 and BP nerf. You are embarassing yourself.
nocturne mauve
It’s not like it’s stupid or anything, because those tanks are really OP
nimble zodiac
Oh dang
RNG on 183 is fine, if fact, if you aim for like 5 seconds it gets scary, you just find yourself needing to shoot early often
blissful vigil
T29 is not OP nor BP. They are weak and strong in certian things. Black Prince got really bad alpha. Trading damage in it sucks. The armor is paper at tier 8 battles. And easy to flank.
T29 is only strong if it's hulldown. It's 80% good at it and the rest is everything else. T29 can be HE'd by big caliber guns in tier 7 and 8. KV-2 included. T29 also have a really really inaccurate gun. Takes ages to aim and dispersion is bad as well. If you want to comlpain about OP tanks complain about Smasher. Not tech tree tanks
tawdry glen
pls fix rng for fv215b183
@unique scaffold Bro no that would make it lose its nmae
nocturne mauve
Well at least smasher is fairly pennable, and doesn’t have dumb consumables or provisions
T29 has a better front hull than T34, why does one of the main weaknesses need to be removed? And black prince has outrageous DPM and armour
nimble zodiac
I wouldn't say the armor is OP, but the DPM is the thing for BP, it need a target to stay locked on to tho, and will lose trades sometimes due to its speed. Both turret armor profiles are phenomenal, but the hulls are only solid, and aiming will work
vale sun
you cannot pen the krav turret at all when it's using gun depression, it's all over 400 effective
the cupolas get hidden when pointing the gun up
only thing you can do is shoot the 380mm gun breech if the krav is pointing gun up, which is a feat the biggest of tds can only hope to accomplish half the time
ionic ivy
How do i angle the black prince
Just use HE on it
deft owl
This photo pretty much explains everything.
nocturne mauve
You think I care about smasher? 99% of its owners are noobs and the tank isn’t as broken as everyone makes it out to be
nimble zodiac
I perform just fine with my SU-152
Smasher spike with tier 7 heavy HP buff do really let it get sum damage doe
deft owl
Yep. %99 of playerbase of smasher are noobs and yet it still gets a overall winrate of a solid %60 and ridiculous amount of overall damage for a tier 7 tank. But oh nerf T29 and BP because Smasher isnt OP enough.
As I said before. You are embarrasing yourself.
nocturne mauve
Does smasher have stupid consumables and provisions? Does it have insane DPM? Does it have amazing armour?
Only its gun is the good part
distant river
T29 was a great tank before the completely stupid hull buff. Oh yeah and the consumables. Oh yeah and the hp buff. Its op.
BP was brilliant before it got consumables and the hp buff. It used to be held back by its speed a bit so it wasn't too bad, but with the consumables that's long gone. Its op.
nimble zodiac
In general people use Smasher to seal club, and a lot of newer players pass through the tech trees, so ofc the premiums/collectors would tend to have a higher WR to the TT tanks unless they're really bad. Given a big ol' Smasher sale after the HP buff, I think it's pulled its way up off of that
Watch what you say personally ;)
@winged barn and here we are waiting for Matilda to receive yet another buff 😂
unique scaffold
This chat is retarded. Imagine complaining about t7. It is frickin t7. Everyone sucks so it doesn’t matter how good a tank is because the tier is easy. Also not to mention, 80 percent of the time t7 is matched with t8
winged barn
@unique scaffold that's what happened to tier 1-5
Now we are up to 7?
M8, let's say I bought a smasher. I would have bought myself a 75+wr tank. Seems balanced.
nocturne mauve
People are too afraid of fighting smashers for some reason
Not really, buying a tank doesn’t give you wins, it might have various advantages but it isn’t the sole reason they win
The reason I say this is because a noob in some really good tank is always gonna be a noob
deft owl
@nocturne mauve Because its OP, broken and pay2win.
nimble zodiac
Well technically OP means broken (and yeah, not the other way around, broken doesn't mean OP, but if it's OP, it's broken)
deft owl
@nocturne mauve balancing isnt done by how noobs performing with a tank.
nocturne mauve
You know you can edit your message instead of messaging multiple times
It’s so you don’t have to wait for the slowmode
deft owl
Editing is not for that.
nimble zodiac
I could care less about Smasher, SU is still fun and I don't play tier 7 excessively, even though I remain concerned for Matilda constantly jumping up xD
jagged crescent
Apparently the russian meds will be tweaked in 7.3 for their armor. Does anyone know whats getting changed?
nocturne mauve
I don’t see a difference
nimble zodiac
vale sun
ngl you gotta be pretty retarded to think the smasher isn't op
it has a turret and a 152mm gun and turret armour and heat pen and HP and dpm and fights tier 6s and outclasses the borsig 1 tier higher
plucky surge
I just blocked over 2000 damage in 1 round with the T1 Heavy
I didn't even take any damage
actually I just destroyed another T1 heavy so maybe it's not a tank issue
lunar niche
Wait, Lowe is getting buffed? Isn't the mantlet already strong? Why buff that part?
nimble zodiac
@lunar niche yeah, 120mm mantlet to 150mm, helps prevent side hits to penetration on the mantlet because there's a 0mm plate behind it, look up blitzhangar.com and look at 7.3 Preview for specifics
So yeah, it's to prevent sideshots on the mantlet from penning as much
orchid grove
@deft owl Well, if you read the graph above the average stats, you'll notice that the reason why Smasher has higher stats is twofold:
hardy hazel
You literaly cry tears of blood grinding british heavys because its poor mobility and alpha, why bp should have a dpm nerf and why smasher should not get a nerf?
atomic summit
WG already said many times that smasher will never be nerfed, so f us
distant river
The BP has amazing dpm and gun handling as well as solid armour, and against prammo it still requires a bit of rng because of the super angled spots. You also have the consumables. If you cry when playing that then try playing a different tank and see what your reaction is.
remote oriole
WG hasn’t said a single time that the Smasher won’t be nerfed. That’s be quite... unsmart... from a legal point of view
atomic summit
Well.. alexandra matush said that it won't be nerfed :/ NEVAH
dense walrus
In 7.3 or at all?
nocturne mauve
That tank had an insane armour buff and then another armour buff for some reason too, you’d understand why it’s OP when you face one
hardy hazel
I played every heavy tank in the british tech tree leaving aside fv 215b, and yes i cried because of its alpha and low mobility, you have dpm but if you take away that you only have your armor to relly on and some consumibles, while other tanks have not better but enough armor, more alpha and mobility, even those special consumibles, but thats not the point where i wanted to go, i was asking that because @nocturne mauve said smasher isnt the great deal while calling T29 and BP "OP tanks" when we all know smasher is a problem in tier 7 more than those two tanks
karmic steeple
What
autumn zodiac
T29 is a legitimate problem in tier 7 actually. Smasher is behind a Paywall. T29 is performing that well for anyone who plays the game for free or not
hardy hazel
My bad, i dont have T29 so i shouldnt said that about it, but i keep my words about BP
last shadow
If I don't want to think when I play
T29 is my choice
nocturne mauve
Because smasher doesn’t have those dumb consumables, or good armour
Only thing that’s really strong on the smasher is the gun
And if smasher would be nerfed, it wouldn’t solve the rage. Think about the guys who own it because it’s really popular
wise dirge
Smasher is basically a healthy tank destroyer
regal grove
They are the big three of dumb tanks (in tier 7) that need to be nerfed (i don’t think black prince needs that hard of nerf though)
Don’t understand why you’re arguing one needs a nerf over the other smh
nocturne mauve
Nah keep the smasher unnerfed so wg can make more money
hardy hazel
I mean, a little nerf in only one parameter will make it more balanced, and ppl will still buying it because of tier 7 kv2 but ok
winged barn
@nocturne mauve you appear to be advocating for p2w. If they introduced an invincible tank for a high price I guess it would still be ok because "wg can make more money"
When I look at the shop right now, it looks like they should be making tons of cash with all those premiums (with good reputations) that are for sale.
Balance is a thing that should be non negotiable, but apparently cash allows balance to be thrown out the window.
You are constantly going "ohhh, the smasher is fine, leave it alone, dont touch the smasher, there are other op tanks as well"
With the intelligence that this server tends to show, it would not be surprising if you were influencing a ton of noobs into believing the garbage you are spitting out.
nocturne mauve
I’m surprised you thought that was a serious statement
I influence every noob I can find and teach them how to win tanks from crates, that’s why there’s so many of them
It’s clear that those 3 tanks do need readjustment, but smasher is just overrated
And just in case anyone asks, I’m not a selfish smasher owner who doesn’t want it to be nerfed(I don’t own this tank)
wise dirge
In all reality the only thing broken about it is it getting that gun and having a turret, the armor is meh and so is the mobility
nocturne mauve
It’s a bit situational too, I don’t understand why people think it’s so broken
And if I did have any problems with them, I’d get my anti-smasher out(Action X)
winged barn
Situaional?
Can sidescrape
Has turret
Turret bounces
HE nukes (ridiculous dpm possible)
AP lesser nukes (high dpm)
Armor ignoring HEAT (still hits harder than anything else with reasonable dpm)
wise dirge
It really shouldn’t be trying to use its armor, it is not thick enough or angled enough to consistently bounce stuff
Like I said, it is just op because of the gun and having a turret
The gun is comparable to the E100 in every way except penetration, so yeah
nocturne mauve
You have to make sure that your enemy doesn’t rush you, because if so, you can’t reverse out of it with only 12km/h reverse speed, also you have a disadvantage here because you possess a poor depression and tall stature. All he needs to do is hug you and you’d see the top of his tank
Only thing that is too good is the gun handling because it’s better than the TD equivalent for some reason
wise dirge
Less dpm but gets a turret and better accuracy
Which is a very nice trade off
worthy iron
nimble zodiac
@worthy iron and?
drowsy idol
@worthy iron #screenshots
inner sapphire
I know this is a screenshot but this is proof that this tank needs a nerf, I have 73% WR in it 1300 Average for a T4 tank like this is broken
nimble zodiac
@inner sapphire no, win streaks happen all the time, and you're abusing low skill players, the Matilda can pull the same stuff
@drowsy idol man could you imagine if he won 18 times in a row, that'd be c r a z y
regal grove
I counted it and won 18 times in a row with the Sp 1c in solos recently does that warrant a nerf
drowsy idol
Yea totally cuz you won 17 times
jagged crescent
if u played it 19 times, id report u for hacking
full token
If you do it 20 times WG will notice. At 100, they will hire you to nerf that one tank
plush perch
smasher is broken , it DOES have armor againts tier 6
jagged crescent
its not broken, it still needs its 2k horsepower and 4 shell autoreloader smh
lost remnant
hi
pastel cairn
no
subtle egret
Why dont WG put ATGM + HE shells instead of HEAT
low crypt
Because ATGM is a controllable HEAT round that flies from the tank barrel to enemy upper hull deck.
late spindle
Why dont WG put ATGM + HE shells instead of HEAT
@subtle egret they dont use HE instead of Heat cuz that will break the atgms even more first off the chances of dealing damage is way higher if its HE when compared to HEAT. Heat will bounce or get eaten by tracks dealing no damage on the other hand HE will damage atleast 90% of the time cause it splashes so it will do anywhere from 50 dmg to around 200 per splash and along with that if u are good with atgms then u can pop HE shells into engine decks and other part of tanks have little to no armor which will most likely pen dealing 700 to 800 (idk if it reaches 800 on HE dont think ive seen it) dmg so using High Explosive is just gonna break it and it will definitely be way worse than it is rn.
subtle egret
then reduce the HE pen. because HE can only do 200 dmg while HEAT can do 500
late spindle
still its gonna be slightly worse that Heat cuz heat has a chance to bounce or get eaten by tracks resulting in no damage being dealt and if its HE being used it will most likely do damage every little HP counts man u never know when you'll be left of 50 Hp and can actually win a 1v3 and i feel like HEAT ammo is the right choice cuz last time the atm was released as an event tank it had HE and it doesnt matter how low or high the pen was if it hits or atleast hits near the tank it WILL deal damage and thats way more annoying than getting tracked by HEAT and no damage being dealt to you. @subtle egret and idk if u understand what im saying HEAT has a CHANCE to pen depending on how ur aiming and how the enemy reacts to the shell approaching him. if he turns the shell might just hit the tracks dealing no damage while HE even if it hits the tracks it WILL deal damage every lets say...8/10 shots so really HE will be way more annoying than HEAT
unique scaffold
HE+ top attack = good way to damage 3-2 critical modules with barely any effort
atomic summit
Just remove atgm heat rounds and replace them with normal heat
thick rover
Just add arty
scarlet fjord
Kranvagn needs to be reworked
you basically gave it broken armor and an op speed boost (after "nerfing" the mobility)
and gave it a bad gun
thats such a bad way of balancing the tank omg
compact nymph
The speed boost lasts for 15 seconds. Rest of the time it will crawl like an E100.
winged barn
Underpowered tanks > overpowered tanks
low crypt
It basically act like a 50B early game with the speed boost then it'll become like a strolling Baby carriage.
nocturne mauve
I just wish those consumables were removed from the game and every tank can be original
They’re childish
scarlet fjord
The speed boost lasts for 15 seconds. Rest of the time it will crawl like an E100.
@compact nymph it can use those 15 seconds to get to an advanced position at the start of the game
and in tourneys specially thats all it needs
plush perch
fv4005 without special consumables is garbage
fiery dagger
Not garbage at all, just a high skill floor tank.
I've been playing it without special consumables so far, and almost 3K average damage is easy to reach if you use the tank to it's strengths, and i'm not even a professional player. @plush perch
It's simply just not your style to do well in then.
plush perch
it already has high skill floor , it is a nightmare without special consumables
abstract grotto
Buff the borsig dispersion and gun depression please.
drowsy idol
Well you gotta nerf camo then
distant river
Use the 12.8 if you want a reliable gun, it's still competitive
arctic stone
Rip
compact nymph
The 12,8cm would be more usable if it had higher dpm
scarlet fjord
Can you please buff the accuracy on the IS-7 it has 300 APCR pen so at least give it some accuracy it misses so often
maybe buff every dispersion factor
not saying anything huge but like give it an extra vertical stabs or smt (that level of buff)
coarse harness
It already has pretty good bloom
Better aim time or dismersion would be more useful IMO
scarlet fjord
I mean buffing the dispersion factors will result in you aiming faster doesnt it?
sure you can buff Aim time or Dispersion i dont mind that either
i dont disagree
hot valve
IS-7 needs Dispersion buff yes i agree
Wargaming pls touch this tank u havent really made a relevant buff on it ever
i dont count the hitpoint buff because every heavy got one
and i dont count the ammo buff because it just allows you to spam a few more APCR rounds which have bad pen
scarlet fjord
@hot valve lol why did u steal my profile picture XD
nocturne mauve
Hahah
deft owl
@hot valve @scarlet fjord Is-7 is fine.
last shadow
Its russian
It cant miss :heh:
coarse harness
15cm gun handling on a 13cm gun is not really fine
karmic steeple
Balance
crystal shuttle
Buff fv301 gun's accuracy please
last shadow
No.
karmic steeple
No
nimble zodiac
@coarse harness 👀
coarse harness
Still better
¯_(ツ)_/¯
nimble zodiac
Figuring the ratio of a 122mm to a 130mm tho I think it's relatively fair
scarlet fjord
Buff the gun handling on the IS-7 it needs a small touch
deft owl
No.
scarlet fjord
Yes*
remote oriole
No
fiery dagger
No. That's clear powercreeping. Large caliber guns on heavies shouldn't have that of a laser accuracy like some do.
coarse harness
It has the lowest avg dmg among T10 hevies
Also why would you choose it over the IS-4 or the WZ-113 ?
It's mediocre in like everything
nimble zodiac
Turret armor ;)
More painful gun
The speed is pretty notable
remote oriole
If you don’t want to pick it then don’t pick it. If you buff this tank another will be below average and then you achieved literally nothing in the grand scheme of things other than that you boosted the powercreep
thick rover
How bout apcr pen buffz
gloomy gull
Is7 needs buff, it's armor is fine but it's gun doesn't really hold up these days
nimble zodiac
What if it slapped 500 average ;)
No isn't a valid answer, you could translate it to "it wouldn't be balanced"
@jagged crescent E100 is actually quite accurate, and ofc the smaller gun
winged barn
No
jagged crescent
Is it me, or is the Jageroo’s dispersion actually garbage. I legitimately get better shots in the e100 than the TD with the bigger gun but supposedly better handling
@drowsy idol except on paper, the Jageroo seems to have better gun handling
drowsy idol
But jageroo has a 17 cm and e100 has a 15 cm
I cant really say anything since I don’t own any of those tanks
gloomy gull
I don't have e100 tank but the jageroo handles quite well, when played right I can get shots across the whole map easy, it's generally up close when you have issues
low wolf
give fv4005 a 183mm gun instand a 120mm autoloader
nimble zodiac
No, it has a special place in tier 10 and a 183mm would basically outclass FV215b 183
safe rapids
Then WG could use their brains and put the badger in the tech tree
unique scaffold
They made the smarter move and marketed it as a premium
gloomy gull
Badger awesome worth buying
rare ember
We need a test drive mode
full token
Nah. Would sell less tanks. Use YouTube and watch gameplay
formal vale
People complaining about the IS-7's gun handling should try swapping out VStab for Refined Gun and possibly GLD for Supercharged Shells
winged barn
Rammer, supercharge, vstab, and never bother to fully aim=profit
unique scaffold
why fv4202 turret not have armor?
thick rover
Because it hull have armour!
turbid smelt
@unique scaffold because it has 4200 dpm with premium hesh that can go through most tanks from front
random latch
I think smasher needs balancing
tender bison
@unique scaffold because it has 4200 dpm with premium hesh that can go through most tanks from front
@turbid smelt yeah it can go through is4's bottom plate
full token
Flank em. It’s better. Nearly all tank sides can be penned with the HESH
low crypt
The point is that you can HESH people a lot, because of that you can punish people who made a mistakes in their positions.
tender bison
and the 4202 has great upper hull and really good traverse speed
unique scaffold
What do you think about british lights
last shadow
Balanced (not)
unique scaffold
😟
iron lynx
Only the CR needs a slight nerf, the others are fine
plush perch
others are not fine , according to charts all of them needs nerf
coarse harness
They are going down with every new chart
New tanks are almost always on the top cuz unicums grind them first
plush perch
they still need nerf , why do u think vickers L and Fv301 does not need any ?
full token
I think the FV301 doesn’t need a nerf as much.
unique scaffold
@plush perch because it is easy to kill. It is easy to pen, doesn’t have op dpm. Bad gun handling, bad hp. Good light tank spots, a little troll gun mantlet, low profile, Hesh
deft owl
@plush perch Fv 301 isnt overperforming thats why.
last shadow
Yes because it gets balanced by all the broken/above average/op t8 premiums
plush perch
what is not balanced is fv301 having more dpm and pen than most of t8 med/lts
unique scaffold
Well it’s alpha and no armor make up for it. U can’t trade with any tank because of your low alpha. Which makes your dpm useless.
last shadow
Considering the fact that literally every short reload low dmg high dpm tank has this problem
This is not an argument
scarlet fjord
IS-7 is good at everything but its gun is holding it back a little too much
it just needs better gun handling a little small touch because it misses so much you cant play it too aggressively because the gun bamboozles you sometimes misses the dumbest shots EVER
deft owl
@plush perch Most T8 meds are awful. Thats not even an arguement.
hearty steeple
Yes. Meds are severely underpowered in tier 8 rn besides a couple premiums.
I propose a blanket buff for all mediums. It makes perfect sense. Heavies got blanket hp buff when they weren't even underperforming. That's how we do balance
plush perch
i will play fv301 over any tier 8 lt or mt , it is just powercreeping so much tanks , it has dpm of 2800 and pen of ht tanks IN A LIGHT
frigid monolith
Let’s discuss what balance means, shall, we?
@plush perch you aren’t wrong
plush perch
@frigid monolith balance can be whatever wg wants
pseudo hedge
252U is a good tank for team play on tournament and removing stupid ppl from random games but every other situation .... meh
frigid monolith
I just like facehugging people and watching 95% of them panic and forget that the hatches are weak. Within reason, of course, because facehugging a VK100 or Tiger 2 or something along those lines is never a good idea
winged barn
With the way you can crush teams with it, I don't care what others say, it definitely is not balanced.
Source: is an obj252u abuser
distant river
How about we talk about the defender MK1 which is truly broken. Heavies like the 252 are by far the easiest class to play, but even the defender MK1 that is actually hard to get right has similar performance.
Its a centurion.
But faster.
And much more armour.
And an actually useful gun.
Both the centurion and the long reload 4 shot clip aspects of it are new to me, but I was still averaging a crazy amount of damage early on in games. Its slipped down a bit because of huge mistakes from me, but it's still at 2.6k which is pretty much standard... for amazing tier 9s.
It needs a turret armour nerf to be the same as the tech tree (50-150mm mantlet nerf, 90mm turret face nerf, 40mm turret roof nerf) and then small gun handling nerfs.
It will still be a good tank if it isn't impenetrable while hulldown with a laser accurate clip of 800 as well as being unique, but it won't be the broken thing it is now.
nocturne mauve
The fact that tank has a better turret than AX and even thicker spaced amour(36mm thicker)
unique scaffold
Yeah defender mk is scary, but idrc cause it’s t8 so it is easy to kill
Flawless logic
hardy hazel
i will play fv301 over any tier 8 lt or mt , it is just powercreeping so much tanks , it has dpm of 2800 and pen of ht tanks IN A LIGHT
@plush perch it's a centurion with speed and less turret armor, same with vickers cr, it's a cent 7/1 but with speed and better turret armor, the speed is what make those tanks strong, not the gun itself, for cr its the gun matlet more than the speed because it is impossible to pen
scarlet fjord
IS-7 need gun handling buff
jagged crescent
The Jageroo needs a dispersion value that actually matches what is stated on paper. I swear even the best aimed shots just magically hit the dirt and I can't tell if it's because of me being a meathead or the gun being an absolute meathead
...you're right. I do hit shots. Just not on the pre-aimed grey areas. Instead? Tracks.
gloomy gull
Bro it's not the gun, the jageroo may not be laser accurate but if you just aim you'll hit the shots
plush perch
@hardy hazeland? it is a light tank that has HT pen and has more dpm than ccenturion 1 ,
hardy hazel
@plush perch and? 6 tanks share the same gun, 4 of them not even heavy tanks, i dont understand why you cry about the pen of a low alpha gun if it is the same for lights, meds and heavys in the british tech tree
formal vale
Sorry my last screenshot was pretty terrible, here's a better one.
@hardy hazel The British lights have insane guns. The fact that they get better guns, nearly the same armor, way better mobility, and way better camo is clearly unbalanced. It's not just the fact that the guns are good, it's the combination of all factors involved.
nocturne mauve
The tier 8 fires too fast
karmic portal
The panther is a tier 7 tank with 2.5k dpm. Wouldn’t you consider it broken as well then if you just went by dpm. At tier 7 that dpm is even more impactful.
Legit most tier 8 mediums/lights are meh. You guys really want the only tech tree light that’s actually good to be nerfed
formal vale
The Panther is not the most well balanced tank lol
It's only balancing factors are size, gun flexibility, and speed. Give the Panther speed, more gun depression, make it way smaller, and give it more damage per shot and you have the tier 8 british light.
karmic portal
I really think we are at the point of many tech tree mediums tanks needing to get buffed. Cause the pershing and the cent 1 exist in the same tier as the defender Mark 1 and chimera. Wargaming has decided on power creep as their model so I dont see them nerfing anything
nocturne mauve
Defender mk1 is the real broken, not smasher
latent snow
Yea ratings is going to suck for a while with 252s and mk1s running around
nocturne mauve
I’m glad it’s probably gonna be my last season too
hardy hazel
@formal vale yes but no, i mean lights need a nerf because they are strong(gun stats and the gun mantlet) but even if they were balanced(same gun stats as meds but a little bit lower and a pennable but not useless gun mantlet), british meds will still be worse than lights because of speed/acceleration, thats why i asked for a buff for meds some time ago, but ppl keep saying meds have hesh and thats why they dont need a buff and stuff like that
Not saying lights are balanced, just no matter how they nerf them, meds need a buff unless lights becomes garbage that nobody wanted to play wich is bad for wg because they will make 2 lines that nobody want to play in the british tech tree
formal vale
I mean yeah, the Centurion I needs a buff. That doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that the lights are unbalanced
karmic portal
What is the standard of balance? What tanks are you comparing them to? Ie which tanks are they better than and which tanks are they worse than. And remember one tank is gonna end up being the best that’s just how it is. I actually have some really nice graphs to show you
clever musk
I think B-C 25t needs a little alpha buff on "mle. 57" gun (top one). From 310 to 350.
nocturne mauve
I only think a shorter intraclip
scarlet fjord
@deft owl stop reacting with thumbs down its annoying
hardy hazel
@karmic portal im talking about tier 8 and 9 british lights, meds and heavys because they all use the same gun at first, but the point here isnt to make the best tank or the worst tank, just balance them, and i want to make two things clear, balanced doesn't mean every thing should be the same, things can be diferent and balanced at the same time, and because of that a tank can be stronger/weaker than others but still balanced
nocturne mauve
@deft owl stop reacting with thumbs down just because you don’t like it
I swear this guy has some bias against me
nimble zodiac
Well they're disagreeing with Posit1ve_ so I'd like to see discussion on that ;)
deft owl
@nocturne mauve @scarlet fjord Adding emoji to post is allowed. You are free to leave if you cant take it.
nocturne mauve
Well maybe don’t cry whenever someone doesn’t agree with you
crystal spoke
Is it really immature though? Its a quick and easy way to show you disagree with the statement while you might be on cool down due to the 10min slow time
full token
Mad about reactions that show disagreement but not about any message that shows disagreement?
formal vale
At least a written out message will (most of the time) contain some form of reasoning. Just reacting with a thumbsdown is just a simple "no" without reasoning.
I wasnt know disaggreing with someone is a sign of being immature. LMAO
@deft owl that's not what they're arguing. It's the way in which you present your disagreement that they're taking issue with
nimble zodiac
How about we buff the Matilda for the 4th time
deft owl
I wasnt know disaggreing with someone is a sign of being immature. LMAO
nocturne mauve
Maybe if you had more verbal reasoning then we’d understand you, making a thumbs down on every single of my messages is a bit strange isn’t it
flat bane
The only thing I would enjoy seeing a change on is the Foch 155's stock non-autoloading gun. In my subjective opinion, the stock gun should receive its original 640 alpha and stats. This would provide more of a contrast and competition between the two guns; while providing more versatility and gameplay options while in said vehicle.
coarse harness
There are enough 640 alpha guns in T10 imo
Just give the single shot gun better DPM cuz the autoloader has 450 more which is pretty stupid
deft owl
@formal vale I did my most of my reasoning. Its not my fault if you dont pay attention.
nimble zodiac
Ok sure thing
formal vale
@deft owl the most recent message you sent detailing your views on discussion regarding balancing was sent 7.5 hours ago. And what you did send was hardly an argument in the first place. It contains only a statement, hardly any reasoning.
flat bane
: /
deft owl
Have you ever check the W8 charts? Most tier 8 meds are underperforming. Its a fact not just statement.
Is7 has average stats. Average stats means the tank is completely fine. You guys should have know this before asking an Is-7 buff.
nimble zodiac
I mean it lacks a pretty noticeable chunk of damage
I do believe it's balanced for tier 10 if you leave the heavy meta alone, so don't take me for a pro-buff IS-7 😅
formal vale
@deft owl First of all, check #devs-answers . If you were already looking there, use it as a reference. It helps to tell people where to find this stuff.
Second of all, the IS-7 is like middle of the road. It doesn't need a buff, we agree on that. Last time I talked about the IS-7, I mentioned how people struggling with it should try swapping out some equipment.
Third of all, tier 8 meds are not inherently underperforming. If you look at the charts given for update 7.1, we see that heavies outperform everything else. If anything, heavies need a nerf. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see medium tanks as a whole get buffed, but that's not exactly the best way to go about doing things. Also, if you compare the British lights to the British meds, you see a clear discrepancy between the two.
drowsy idol
I thought discord was for 13+
karmic portal
Neither graph shows the fv301 overperforming, not saying that these graphs are perfect. But most players are not performing well above their avg winrate in the fv301. You might say that’s cause noobs do so poorly in lights and they drag it down but even among light tanks the fv301 isn’t at the top. And for 7.0 stats the fv301 was even lower in terms of relative wr
However the vickers cr, among tier 9 meds and lights, is at the top in terms of relative wr
deft owl
I think its obvious that charts should be the main thing to look before asking a buff.
Those guys are literally asking buff blindly. "Hur Dur Buff Is-7 it sucks" kind of altitude deserves a NO as an answer.
Since Tier 8 heavies buffed into oblivion along with premiums, they cant nerf them back. Only solution is buff rest of the tanks.
nimble zodiac
Sounds like a plan to shift Blitz into its older brother
drowsy idol
Where and when did they say they can’t nerf prems? Send screenshot if possible
karmic portal
@drowsy idol what he means is they won’t and if you believe they gonna start doing across the board premium tank nerfs then I got some beach front property in Arizona to sell to you
deft owl
Its an assuming. According to EULA Any in game item can be changed to ensure game balance.
However also according to EULA Wg can choose to not nerf any premium. They choose to nerf low tiers which already created an outcry in the community. I doubt they do it for tier 8.
coarse harness
"asking buff blindly"
Or maybe we just use the tank
With your logic the Ferdinand is the most broken T8 TD and needs nerf ASAP
formal vale
Except the IS-7 is perfectly fine and needs no changes : )
remote oriole
I use the tank too and heavily oppose a buff
nimble zodiac
I think since it's a great pubs tank, it wouldn't need a buff, sure yeah yeah big boy is punching the little ones with his tank toy and needs to go to the adult room and find IS-4 there being the representative of Russian tier 10s. Honestly Ima jus start going for a meta shift from the heavies, because I don't really want to throw off the pace of the game even more
drowsy idol
So, what are we gonna do with the obj 140
nimble zodiac
DPM maybe, or uhh, more hull armor?
formal vale
give it its old turret armor back
deft owl
@coarse harness How exactly with my logic Ferdinand needs nerf? There are at least 9 heavy tanks that perform better then Ferdinand.
I bet you wrote that blindly.
nimble zodiac
I guess he meant not knowing how underperforming Ferdinand is compared to heavies, because you can see it's performing as the best TD ||for some god-known reason||, but it's not that good
I suppose his point is that you can't base tank balance purely off of stats
remote oriole
This is relative winrate. It’s the winrate of the tank compared to the winrate of all tanks across the tier, and Ferdinand drivers seem to do way better in it than in their other tanks at the tier
nimble zodiac
Hey man, have fun with your essay
remote oriole
Player perception and performance statistics don’t necessarily agree with each other. There were always tanks that were underrated by the broad majority of players, like the Maus before the hp buff, and tanks that were overrated, such as the Leopard 1 (although less recently). If you really wanted reliably balancing with a clear guideline you should only balance with statistics, but the issue is that in the end nobody really cares about statistics when they are on the battlefield.
That the FV 215b (183) as an example. Despite being a rolling trashcan made out of cardboard with a gun that wouldn’t even hit a barn if it stood inside of it it is still hugely popular amongst the players.
Then you have tanks like the Ferdinand or the VK 100.01 (P) which are being trashtalked by the players despite being the highest non-premium scorers in terms of statistics for their class and tier.
Why? Because they are boring or annoying to play. They are effective, yes, but where is the fun if you can’t run around the map or slap people for massive damage? You don’t even get the pleasure of shooting like all the time or of bouncing every shot that comes your way, whether it’s well-aimed or not. There are things that make playing this game fun, rewarding or interesting to play.
And in order to offer players this desired interaction in the game we both need variety and balance. Variety brings fun and interesting and engaging gameplay. Balance prevents frustration and allows for rewarding games even in non-meta tanks.
So no, you can’t only base tank balance off stats, you also have to keep in mind that the tank should be fun to play and play against. But if you want balance nothing will help you more than the statistics. In the end, fun is subjective, but stats are eternal! (Totally not biased)
nimble zodiac
Tbh 183 gets scary once it aims
I don't really want to disband the exaggeration, it's just not many players have seen how small that reticle gets when it gets the chance. Of course I could tell it was an exaggeration, that thing won't hit anything if you play rowdy with the gun
I said if you let it aim in =(
remote oriole
I exaggerated for comedic value
deft owl
@nimble zodiac base dispersion of 0.431 is far from small.
unique scaffold
The chances of getting hit from an 183 are low but never zero
coarse harness
It always hit when it's against you, never when you play it
nimble zodiac
I dunno, seems very nice
karmic steeple
It’s not horrible but you need a brain to use it
tender bison
BC25t intraclip needs to be s h o r t e r
nimble zodiac
If anything BC25t AP needs it
twilit crystal
the fv301 is relatively balanced, vickers is op
drowsy idol
I remember playing fv, I only dealt splash dmg and missed 90% of the time
tender bison
If anything BC25t AP needs it
@nimble zodiac how about..... both
both tanks are lagging behind the other lights in their tiers
nimble zodiac
Well the other two are far more recent
jagged crescent
the tier 8 and 10 are balanced. The tier 9 isn't
plush perch
fv301 is not balanced , 2700 dpm and 226mm pen on a light is crazy , give it same dpm as centurion mk1 at least
thick rover
Wat about...10 is balanced but 8,9 aren't?
plush perch
HE pen should be nerfed
jagged crescent
the fv301 is ridiculously squishy, the gun handling is unreliable. and the alpha requires constant exposure to actually get off ur alpha, which the FV301 can not afford to do
also the 301 has "only" 44mm of HE pen w/ calibrated
Don't get me wrong, it's a solid tank. I just think that it's not that OP as some think, especially in comparision to its tier 9 counterpart
To be fair, the Centurion has been obsolete for a while. It's not like the FV301 really changed how much of a sh*t that tank was
hardy hazel
Or maybe you should not play paper armor tanks if you cant handle british lights shooting HE from all the sides, and i keep telling you that pen is fine "BECAUSE OF THE GUN IT HAS", other stats were swaped from "OQF 20-pdr Gun Type B Barrel" to "OQF 20-pdr Gun Type A Barrel" and the first one got better stats for Vickers CR.
You can see the same thing in french tanks "90mm DCA 45" pen doesnt change from tier 6 to tier 9, it gets better/worse gun handling stats because of the tier you are playing and the tank (See: auto-loaders, FCM/CDC, ARL and AMX M4 45)
plush perch
talking abt vickers L and cr , not fv301 , did i say it was op? i said it is powercreeping so much tanks like why the hell it has more dpm than centurion 1?
twilit crystal
2700 dpm is balanced compared to the usual heavy spam in tier 8, most tier 8 meds just suck anyway.
full token
I thought the Vickers CR would get a nerf by now. 7.3 doesn’t have a nerf
twilit crystal
just slap a 92% crew as its new stats and that should be fine
plush perch
u are ignoring turret armor
twilit crystal
yeah and i guess remove the mantlet armor or whatever.that should be it, then 93% crew
coarse harness
Swap the DPM with the Cent 1
Problem solved
plush perch
^
karmic portal
Legit there are some people here who whenever a non premium tank is good they are like nerf it nerf it. I want the defender mark 1 and chimera nerfed before the fv301 and even the cr
That’s true but I want tech tree tanks to be able to stand up to premiums, I think it’s only fair. And relative winrate wise,the fv301 isn’t anywhere close to the top of the list and even the cr isn’t at the top
full token
There’s more hope in asking for a tech tree tank to be nerfed than for a premium to be nerfed
scarlet fjord
@deft owl
Mods can you warn or mute this person
he is reacting with thumbs down on everything and multiple people are complaining about it
karmic portal
I didn’t know that was against the rules
ebon iris
The Tiger 1's upper glacis has way too much armour, it has atleast more than 180 mm of frontal armour, in contrast to the tank's actual 100 mm of armour.
orchid grove
It used to be 100mm, but it was pretty bad with 100mm of armor
gloomy gull
Chimera is fine where it is
pseudo hedge
The Tiger 1's upper glacis has way too much armour, it has atleast more than 180 mm of frontal armour, in contrast to the tank's actual 100 mm of armour.
@ebon iris even "modern simulations" like War thunder have different armour bc of balancing.
frosty oriole
keep in mind tigers were going up against t-34s and shermans irl
unique scaffold
Why is the tigers armor even a problem tier 7s still have not much trouble dealing with it and its a welcome buff to tiger drivers i can see it with tier 6s
pseudo hedge
Why is the tigers armor even a problem tier 7s still have not much trouble dealing with it and its a welcome buff to tiger drivers i can see it with tier 6s
@unique scaffold he just got clapped by a tiger and is salty now.
unique scaffold
Bruh Stug III's repair expenses are so high. You get 11-12K for each good fight but if you get destroyed most of it goes to repair
restive lily
I mean it’s 11-12k......does it really matter?
scarlet fjord
the IS-7 is overall a good tank
except for 2 areas
gun handling and APCR penetration
these 2 things in combination really are dragging it down
please buff the gun handling i can cope with CS to fix the APCR pen it can still handle pretty much most armor profiles if played correctly but i need the accuracy to do that which it doesnt have AT ALL
or if you want you can make the tank more fun
give it 490 Alpha like in PC with the same DPM as is right now
it will be much more fun and will compensate for bad accuracy and bad APCR pen
What do you think?
scarlet fjord
Have you ever check the W8 charts? Most tier 8 meds are underperforming. Its a fact not just statement.
Is7 has average stats. Average stats means the tank is completely fine. You guys should have know this before asking an Is-7 buff.
@deft owl the IS-7s win rate is one of the lowest of the bunch
and the avg dmg is the LOWEST of them all
what good statistics are you talking about lol
first get your "facts" straight
and IS-7 does need a small touch because its gun handling is too poor for it to have bad penetration
needs gun handling buff
last shadow
Is7 has bad stats cuz its mostly driven by idiots
The tank is also a little bit below average stat wise
I honestly see only idiots in it
Might also be my lucky, idk
plush perch
@last shadow it is 55-65 players
scarlet fjord
The tank is statistically underperforming because
the statistics dont value its role as much as they value the damage dealt by tanks
and the IS-7's role is basically being a very fast chunk of unpennable metal
that has more average damage with ramming than with its gun
its a great tank it just needs accuracy to perform well
remote oriole
If we would buff tanks that “underperform” like the IS-7 we’ll get to a stage where the Smasher needs a buff. The tank is below average, yes, but that is no reason whatsoever to buff it. I am sure that you are all aware what the average is and that there will always be tanks below the average. The only reason why one would want to buff the IS-7 is to change the heavy meta and to have some nice power creep.
nimble zodiac
Guys buff the Smasher IS-7 is too good
jagged crescent
The progression from tier 5-8 is really busted
devout flower
Why do people think the chimera is op? It’s fine as it is. It’s a tank that excels in the hands of a unicum player but is bad in the hands of a beginner. To be quite honest most British tanks are like this.
unique scaffold
Because players don't remember when they see someone do poor in a tank. They do remember when they get wiped back and forth across the map by a unicum in a tank. And since most players don't bother to actually look into who beat them they just blame the tank that was being driven we end up with a bunch of tank X is op complaints.
full token
If they don’t remember who played poor in a tank why do they come here with pics of their teammates in tier X tanks with noob stats and bad battles?
remote oriole
Excellent question
unique scaffold
They just see zeros and everyone likes to find a scapegoat
My point being is that folks forget about all the times they beat some poor schlub in a premium tank. Even if it is a "OP" tank.
rare mauve
Spartacus can I get the stats for light tanks pls
Ah shoot I was in the wrong channel
drowsy plaza
@devout flower the Chimera does have the best WR in tier 8 for meds globally for all players - not just the 55-65% players WG uses for balance -- I mean if I am over 80% in a tank solo in tier 8 with well over 100 games, it probably is a little over cooked.
unique scaffold
It probably could do without the consumables...
devout flower
I disagree.
hazy heron
Smasher
distant river
The chimera has an extremely nice gun mounted on a fairly mobile chassis with fairly good armour. There isn't really a bad point about it. It's too good to be balanced and could probably do with a mobility nerf
plush perch
or removal of special consumables , really annoying when it activates reactive armor
nocturne mauve
That tank is so frustrating, troll armour and has those dumb consumables plus it punches like a TD
remote oriole
I always opposed op consumables, but I am even more against consumables that decrease enemy effectiveness and don’t increase yours. While the effect is basically the same it’s just way more frustrating and annoying when someone can just diminish your abilities by clicking a button.
nocturne mauve
Why are so many heavies overbuffed, in HP and armour
plush perch
is4 def didnt need 2750 hp
deft owl
@distant river Chimera mobility is meh. P/W ratio is mediocre and traverse is awful.
distant river
For its size, weight, armour and gun it is very good as well as having a high top speed.
raven dawn
Is3 side armor buff to 100 or 110mm in the middle and 75mm on the lowest plate
candid locust
Mediums are underperforming because when heavies got a hp buff they didnt get a dpm buff, so in a 1v1 with a heavy they got a bad day.
hazy heron
Lol
nocturne mauve
Smasher isn’t even as broken as everyone says it is, it’s only got an OP gun and turret
candid locust
If it was a teir 8 it would be balanced...its just a teir 8 that sees teir 6s
meager spruce
@nocturne mauve gun isn't really that OP, you basically have a 545 alpha as AP can't pen shit
deft owl
@hazy heron
WG won t nerf smasher. It should be nerfed, but i Don t Care. Most of smasher players are noobs. And i can easly kill them as Free dmg. If you think smasher is most broken tank in The game and it s ruining the game you probably Don t remember t49 A. XD
@muted rampart T49A was just a test for the ATGM mechanics. It was a timed event and that tank deleted from everyone account after event over.
drowsy plaza
But the T49A had broken module damage and autoaim missiles -- the only balance to the T49A was you where seeing 3-4 / side in battles
last shadow
Good ol times when t49 and t49A needed only 7 shells to win a game
nocturne mauve
Easy Fadin’s
forest heath
the armor on the predator UM definitely needs a buff as well as a penetration buff
Players have to deal with the atrocious lack of gun depression limiting already where they can go on the map, increasing the frontal armor from 130 to 150mm and increase the thickness of the front vision ports from 75 mm to 95mm and the penetration from 165mm to 173mm base AP also improve dispersion on the gun. I had to deal with missing 2 out of 3 shots missing completely from a stationary target. The fact that it sees tier VIII is criminal.
It’s a tank that has the size and speed of a super heavy tank, but the armor and penetration of a medium tank. I love the tank esthetics and how it played when first introduced. It’s just been power creeped to uselessness. I’m tired of being yelled at because I’m forced to remain at the back as a heavy tank in tier VIII battles
unique scaffold
I mean it’s been well known for years now it’s pretty mediocre I have no idea why you wouldn’t move on to something like such as the tiger or T29 when they are free and have so much more quality of life over the predator not everything needs to be buffed
forest heath
@unique scaffold I already played the tiger and T29, and they are fun to play. But I don’t want to play the T29 and tiger 1 all the time. Variety is the spice of life and constantly playing the meta gets boring after a while. But I don’t want to suffer for playing something else. Out of the tier VII heavy tanks the predator is the worst of. It has no redeeming qualities gameplay wise. But I fell in love with it. And I only want to have the tank in a good place in matches
hot snow
The armor on the vk72.01 K, more specifically the 160mm on the turret sides and bulges on hull and the 240mm glacis plates need to be buffed. The turret can be penned by most tanks with standard ammo making it impossible to effectively hull down, peek-a-boom, or sidescrape. The bulges on the hull underneath the turret while effectively thicker than the turret can be easily penned frontally by most tanks. While it would be possible to side them via the angle you proceed around a corner, the 240mm frontal armor can again be penned by most t10 tanks with standard round. The upper plate is fine as they are but the lower plates could stand to recieve a 10mm increase to a total of 250mm. The armor on the bulges could be increased by 20mm to a total of 180mm the 160mm side toward the front of the turret should also be increased. either by 20mm or matching the rest frontal turret armor thickness of 200. As it is now the tank can not effectively perform any standard heavy tank roles and is better suited for 2nd line support/ long range sniping.
twilit crystal
nah dont buff the side bulges, just buff the front
jagged crescent
240mm frontal armor can again be penned by most t10 tanks with standard round There's like one, bar of 240mm frontal armor that can be penned. Good luck finding a shot on that lmao
hot snow
the plate just under that 240mm bar only hits 280mm.
coarse harness
*prammo spam intensifies
deft owl
@muted rampart Doesnt matter. Its deleted and probably never comeback in its current state.
fiery dagger
@hot snow
About the Vk 72's turret. There is a thing called baiting shots. The vk sould be operated close quarters. Up close you can see where the enemy is pointing his gun at. Turn your mantlet just a few degrees to the side where the cheek is aimed at, and here you go with a bounce. Especially effective when facehugging. It's a great frontlining vehicle for pubs, where prammo spam is not consistent so you kind of have the best frontal armour of all heavies.
The tank just requires multitasking, thus making it have a quite difficult playstyle. But it's far from bad.
ionic ivy
the t9 is kinda fine. t8 might need a buff, but it's more of a medium than a heavy. 7201k has a strange sidescrape profile where you hide 1 side instead of hiding the front and a side.
drowsy idol
T8 doesn’t need a buff, t10 could swap some frontal armor for better gun or side armor
fiery dagger
Vk 72 is all about front amour. You have the E100 as sidescraper, which is all about angling, with much worse frontal armour at 90°.
The line is inconsistent, that's for sure. But this is to be said about a few other lines as well, Eg.: JP II, Jagdtiger, Jg E100. Or ARL, Amx mle 45, 50 100.
Or from Black Prince to Fv215b.
winged barn
The tier 8 is kind of a heavium?
Sure, but an is3 is a better heavium than a vk45a
muted rampart
@fiery dagger The only one more inconsistent line than this is 183 line. All of this line needs reworking or swapping vk 72 with vk 90 because it will definetly fit this line waaaaaay better
fiery dagger
That's indeniably true. I originally just pointed out that the 72 is by no means a bad tank on it's own.
ionic ivy
it's like the e100, you have highest alpha of any t10 heavy, use it to trade shots. You have very good frontal armor, use it to your advantage and hide your sides.
turbid smelt
@winged barn not really, vk is more mobile and doesn't have pikenose allowing it to angle its front while poking around corner
as turrent is placed very far forward, it can shoot enemy without exposing too much of the weaker drive wheel
best part is vk45's frontal sloped armour is just as good as is3s pike nose (directly pointing towards enemy on flat ground)
vk has one of the fastest hull traverse allowing it to more efficiently wiggle
to balance this vk has 2 weakspot on front near both drivewheels
but not many know about it
of course both tanks work effectively against tier 7s and somewhat good against tier 8s
they are absolute
paper infront of tier 9s
jagged crescent
at least the IS3 has a turret
tfw a PanII has better frontal armor than a VK
winged barn
While the frontally mounted turret is really nice, I would greatly prefer to just take a tiger 2 or is3 down the med route instead. The tiger is not even remotely slow, and gets nearly impenetrable frontal armor against lots of meds. The vk is just sad.
Actually I forgot the panther 2 existed. Why bother with a vk45a when a pan2 is available
And please nobody bring up premiums.
ionic ivy
because you aren't playing them for the tank itself, you're playing them because they lead to the t10
winged barn
Why play it when I could use my frex?
turbid smelt
just to have fun
panthers hull didn't used to be as good until for absolute no reason dev balancing department buffed it out of its ass
winged barn
It was lagging a bit behind the other meds, but it wasnt unusable. But they definently overbuffed both panthers
plush perch
@winged barn why u think they are over buffed? prammo can butter them and sides are weak , turret is not reliable and they are huge
scarlet fjord
Buff IS-7 gun handling
nimble zodiac
Nah, it's a very nice tank, not really in need of a buff
plush perch
maybe swap its hp with is4
verbal thistle
The only tier x tank that needs some love is the T110E4
scarlet fjord
yeah i agree with that
Swap its hitpoints with IS-4
its illogical to give IS-4 more hitpoints
winged barn
Is4 is the more durable tank, why does it deserve less hp?
dense yoke
i think the reason why is-4 has more hp than Is7 is because it is from kv4 line? I mean kv3 has more hp then IS, same kv4/is3, st1 and is8. It is only logical to make is4 have more hp than is7. (Now imagine if is4 gets bigger in size or Is7 gets smaller in size)
topaz geyser
@nimble zodiac is7 nice tank????
sweet elbow
Is it just me or someone thinking that strv tier 5 need some buff, it just really hard to win with that tank, low pen when facing tier 6,pretty dang long reload aswell
restive lily
Is7 is great if u play it well, it has an amazing gun and turret armor is quite good
I don’t agree with messages below, I love the is7’s gun
topaz geyser
Amazing gun 😂😂😂😂😂😂
distant river
It is great if you play it well but it does not have an amazing gun lmao
dense yoke
is7 best gun confirmed 🤔
latent snow
Pz II j Pre buff, post 5.5 best gun confirmed 🤔
turbid smelt
It was lagging a bit behind the other meds, but it wasnt unusable. But they definently overbuffed both panthers
@winged barn
well I didn't check stats during that time
but panther was basically a bigger more armoured comet with better accuracy, penetration and gun handling.
it lost gun depression for all of that which was workable
panther 2 however felt like a downgrade in terms of accuracy and gun handling in comparison panther 1
fair point
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V
nocturne mauve
I preferred panther 2 because it had higher alpha, I just never liked the playstyle of the panther 1
deft owl
@winged barn Overbuffed the panthers? What are you smoking? 3 of the Panthers (Panther 1, Panther 2 and Panther 8.8) are still hot garbage.
winged barn
Panther 1 has always been really good. It is a tier 7 that actually has penetration. Now it also has a heavy tank armor profile. While not having the speed of a heavy
Pan2 and pan88 had a nice snipermed playstyle. I personally really liked how the gun on the pan2 worked. Sure, they might not have been the best, but I would definitely have taken it over a pershing
And lol, the tiger 1. They can't decide if they want it to be op or not
turbid smelt
@deft owl I hope that is a joke
Panther 1 and Tiger 1 definitely didn't deserve any of that armour buff
both of them used to finesse tanks
now they have way more advantage than their peers
they even nuffed tiger 1 before, because it was performing "too good"
panther 1's dpm is identical to comet...
deft owl
No. Panther 1 was god awful. It was slow, lacks dpm for a 160 alpha gun, lacks gun depression. Even after the armor buff its still bad. Sides are still paper, and front armor only stops tier 6 meds ap rounds.
Only thing Panther 1 had was accuracy and penetration which didnt meant anything when the tank had all above weaknesses. Even after the buff its still mediocre.
At least Wg is buffing tech tree tanks when they flooded the game with overpowered premiums. Panther 1 is still god awful compared to those overpowered premiums. Seriously.
turbid smelt
I seriously regret not posting 3 consecutive ace masteries I got before in old panther 1
it was very good before
now it is jusy stupid
I don't even want to play that tank anymore
hate sealclubbing
facts
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winged barn
Pan1 has always been a tier 7 powerhouse.
Lacks dpm? Compared to a comet? I'll sacrifice that (200?) Dpm for the ability to pen everything with ap.
If you complain about the armor of the pan1, you should really revisit the armor profiles of tier 7 heavies.
let me section this part off from the rest
You can bully the shist out of tier 6 and 7s while not being worthless against tier 8s like the other 160 alpha guns.
compact nymph
@deft owl it's a T7 medium, are you surprised it has weak sides? Lol
The Panther is definitively one of the best T7 mediums and the gun can still nail a lot of T8s, including heavies. The pen and accuracy make you a still strong contender when bottom tier, even if you can't really rely on the armor much
twilit crystal
the most stupid armor buff was the jpanther, you can't track it anymore when it overangles and some mediums can't even track it at 90 degree angles 😂
turbid smelt
yea xd
that was funny bug
it had like 150mm of armour
me too
l
V
jagged crescent
i lowkey missed when those type of tanks were just flexible snipers instead of frontliner tank #45
compact nymph
165mm of side armor, was the good old times😂
And yea, having to load prammo to pen a hulldown Jagdpanther with a T8 heavy feels kind of stupid sometimes. This thing has up to 260mm of armor on the ufp when in the right position.
winged barn
It is now "balanced"
Compares mobility to badger....
Lmao, the drac has issues with the frontal armor of a pan1
nocturne mauve
They’ve overbuffed soo much stuff, it’s bs
deft owl
@compact nymph Dracula still beats the shit out Panther 1. Thats not even open for discussion.
compact nymph
Excuse me? the Dracula has better speed, alpha and meme track repairs. About the rest? The Panther is a lot more reliable in many aspects. C’mon, we are no longer in 2016-2017
distant river
"Hot garbage" 👌
Panther is basically the best tier 7 med you can get. Gun is near perfect with dpm, pen and accuracy. Its not amazingly fast to accelerate but it has a high top speed and a lot of weight. Turret is very hard to pen if you move, front armour is very bouncy to the common 122 heavy gun and basically every med peashooter and the lower plate is pretty small. Its disadvantages are literally it's acceleration and that's it.
If I want to win games and win them fast I will literally turn to the panther instantly with no competition.
twilit crystal
Nah the best tier 7 medium is the t34 1,has same camo as light tanks on move and best stationary camo, 2nd best tier 7 turret. Amazing alpha and solid pen
winged barn
The t341 being really short with a beastly turret makes it an amazing side hugger.
I cannot tell if @deft owl is trolling or just has a personal problem with the panther. It is 100% an issue with the driver and not the tank in the case of a panther 1
Side note: that poor guy is getting teamed up against
deft owl
Personal stats doesnt means anything. Overall winrate and reliative winrate of panther 1 are still mediocre which proofs the tank is still mediocre.
Turret is pretty easy to pen actually. Flat part is only 165mm effective.
I get it. I guess people in here wants tech tree tanks to stay bad so they can destroy everything with their overpowered premiums.
compact nymph
The Panther is actually better than any premium med at T7 but sure, why not.
jagged crescent
Overall winrate and reliative winrate of panther 1 are still mediocre which proofs the tank is still mediocre
Wow, it's not like the panther 1 line is very popular meaning s hundreds of thousands of people with varying skill play it. It's almost as if we're only focusing on how viable tanks are when they're utilised to their full potential instead of just using common population statistics
distant river
T-34-1 is very close but the panthers gun is just on another level which does it for me. I guess it's personal preference between what you want in a tank 🤷♀️
Personal stats show that the tank is not "hot garbage" otherwise I wouldn't be able to do that
Good luck reliably hitting the turret front (still impenetrable to dracs standard ammo going off the example you pointed out)
But anyway even if the turret was paper it would still have decent mobility and front armour and the gun of a god which puts it as one of the best meds about still. If I didn't know better then I'd say someone is out of points to defend their ridiculous viewpoint 🤷♀️
winged barn
Panther is underperforming? It has a freaking 53% winrate in the last 90 days.
nocturne mauve
Care to explain why tier some tier 7s aren’t overbuffed @deft owl since you disagree with everything I say you should have your counterargument by now
Wrong tag(fixed)
twilit crystal
panther is just a big and tank with thin sides and low gun depression, much rather have the t34-1 profile
deft owl
Yeah Panther 1 better then dracula lol.
pastel cairn
But the drac is more fun to play
compact nymph
@deft owl if the Panther is « hot garbage », could you please buy me a Dracula so we’ll see how well I can do in this « overpowered premium » 🤣
restive lily
@nocturne mauve dang it!
distant river
@deft owl You can literally look at the graphs and see that the drac is played by better players very considerably 🤦♀️
winged barn
The slowmode is killing me
And @deft owl you should really learn to look at other factors that effect stats.
1: dracula is an old, high skill tank, that good players play for amusement. Noobs yolo and get bored of it quick.
Panther is a tech tree, historically significant tank that many noobs as well as good players grind through. Good players linger less on tech tree vehicles less than credit earners.
2: tech trees have stock grinds
3: I guess the is6 fearless is massively op with that 70%wr
Sure, the drac is fun, but if I'm gonna take a tier 7 out for carrying its gonna be a type62
deft owl
@nocturne mauve No tech tree tier 7 tank is over buffed. Premiums are still miles ahead of tech tree tanks.
@distant river 3200 players vs 2800. Also its only last 90 days winrate. There is literally a %8 percent winrate difference. There is no damn way a stock grind will make a %8 percent difference. Also Dracula is owned by plenty of the noobs that just rush and die.
But When tanks like Smasher exist, you people claim that panther is overbuffed. Pathetic.
Fearless is same with Is6. It has nothing to do with this discussion.
nocturne mauve
Ah so Black prince isn’t OP?
T29 isn’t OP?
Smasher isn’t even broken lol, people just cry about it because they get hit for a huge amount of damage, it is OP but not to the extent people think it is
distant river
You clearly have no clue what the graphs show and are just taking any stat you can find without looking at it in the slightest. Look at the pale red section. It shows the WRs of the players that use it. You can see very obviously that it is a long way to the right of the graph of the panther. That means that the players in the drac are significantly better than the players in the panther. That accounts for a lot of the difference. The stock grind as well as crew grind sets it back even further.
But anyway that isn't what matters, you still haven't pointed out any weaknesses apart from the meh side armour and acceleration. That is definitely not enough to balance a tank.
compact nymph
No tech tree tier 7 tank is over buffed. Premiums are still miles ahead of tech tree tanks.
@deft owl update the game and play at T7 in 2020. See how it is. Everheard of 1)The T29, 2)The Bp, 3) The Tiger, 4) the Jagdpanther?
winged barn
@deft owl by the stats you look at the is6f is massively overpreforming
deft owl
60 winrate with 1729 overall damage. Yeah not overpowered at all LMAO.
@distant river Call me clueless yet you cant see in the graph that the skill difference is abysmal. So Yeah keep protecting your overpowered premiums.
nocturne mauve
Do you know how horrible of a margin there is between tiers 6/7, it used to be 7/8 but now tier 7 is becoming really powerful. Plus at tier 7 that is where they bridged the stupid heavy buffs
real bison
@winged barn maybe because the only people who have it are actually competent players