Those charts are always wonky. Some how the Ferdinand is almost always the top td, the is6 is somehow the 2nd best heavy so idk.
#tank-balance-discussion
karmic portal
twilit crystal
Hey @lusty silo could u guys keep the vertex on the dev charts
jagged crescent
do you mean the absolute maximum?
distant river
Another update, another chart where the T22 is absent... More players than 121b, and people only have an average of 22 less games in the T22 in their career (216 vs 194)
nocturne mauve
Noobs spam buy those crates
remote oriole
Yeah, why are certain premium tanks missing in these charts despite being popular?
unique scaffold
I believe that it is because these charts are based off the Russian server and that a tank must be played for more than 1% of the total battles. @remote oriole
Wz 120 TD that broken one wasn’t in the charts because “not enough players”
distant river
WG will say that they aren't enough battles to display them on the charts.
But it would be very nice to get some official figures, such as a spreadsheet or list showing the number of battles played in each tank including the ones not shown on the charts even if it doesn't show WR etc.
Would that be possible for this update or even the next one @still ivy or @lusty silo ?
unique scaffold
I don't know if RU has the same Wallet Warrior to F2P ratio that NA has...
karmic steeple
I mean we all know these tanks are broke so why bother
hardy hazel
There is a problem though. I have shown that, and nobody has shown otherwise. If you pretend it doesn't exist then you are just encouraging WG to keep the game as bad as it is instead of trying to get them to do a simple change and solve the problem.
All it takes is a quick swap. KV2 made collectors and the 152 removed/the alpha nerfed (including APs). T-150 put back in the tech tree. Everyone that had the KV2 gets the T150 for free and keeps the nerfed KV2. Everyone that had the T150 gets the KV2 for free. KV2 gets the same gold selling price as the T150.
The only people that lose out are the people who rely on the KV2 to pretend they are good, and they fully deserve to lose after years of ruining the game for everyone else.
@distant river a collector kv 2 with 152mm gun but less HE Alpha, there are a lot of seal clubbers that play kv 2 and is annoying when you start a new line from tier 5/6
plush perch
why annoying ? pen legimately sucks , everything suc except alpha bruh , it is free dmg farm
scarlet fjord
A tank with such alpha has to pay dearly for it. There is no need to make it competitive because the whole alpha concept is basically making it a meme tank, so it is better to just leave it as it is instead of creating either the old toxic 183 meta we used to have or a tank you will just have to dodge and focus down whenever you can because otherwise it will obliterate you like the KV-2 used to be at tier six. Leave the meme tank as a meme and don’t try to make it some balanced competitive tank, because the alpha literally doesn’t allow you to do that without making it broken in certain situations
@remote oriole thats shallow thinking
it can be balanced just give it better aim time or dispersion factors and mobility so exceptional players can be competitive in it
rarely can someone play it like that anyway
jagged crescent
the t150 made more sense to me as a tech tree.
The progression felt way better, especially in armor
The drawback is exposure and absolutely no protection
nocturne mauve
It’s trash and broken at the same time, if it has the premium HESH and that much alpha then yes it’s quite stupid. They should give the premium HESH lower alpha and the standard HE 1300, so people don’t brainlessly spam the premium hesh because there would be a drawback
misty edge
183 buff thx 🙂
unique scaffold
I'd like the Sherman Jumbo to get the 105mm back...
remote oriole
Why would you want exceptional players to be competitive in it? This tank has an alpha that is so good that it should not be competitive because it will have too much influence on the game by locking entire areas of the map and destroying up to 10% of the hp of the team with one shot. It should not be competitive because it has such a ridiculously high alpha. If you want to balance it you first have to make the alpha balanced
compact nymph
183 buff thx 🙂
@misty edge play better tanks
austere citrus
WG should make a tank that is slow, good frontal armor(basically not possible to pen besides lower plate) and trash side armor with like 15deg of gun depression, more innovating than the tanks rn, trash gun too. this sounds a lot like the badger ngl, but something different than badger, badger has less gun depress tho, this tnak will have worse armor but if u can angle it, it will be strong
hardy hazel
why annoying ? pen legimately sucks , everything suc except alpha bruh , it is free dmg farm
@plush perch
1: even if pen sucks most of the time ppl use HE, and even if it splashes that erase half or 1/3 of your hp
2: it has no armor but you dont need armor if you are camping which most of the ppl do, so 😩 👌
3: There are a lot of ppl playing it, noobs, ppl that is just grinding for tier 7 and ppl that have more than 20k battles with 2.5k+ played in kv 2 and those ppl are the real problem here, guys that know how to play a deadly tank vs guys that dont know why is he doing 30 dmg when the shell said it does 200 with 20mm pen, they get slapped back to the garage in one shot, then they buy kv 2, and gets farmed by guys like you and you come here and say "its just free damage" and the cycle repeat forever till its alpha gets nerfed, because thats the main reason why ppl play kv 2 152mm gun
Even with 20s reload and trash accuracy/ pen still unbalanced for tier 6
plush perch
@hardy hazel even if it can erase ur 1/3hp with splash it has 20s reload and accuracy sucks too
austere citrus
i dont care about this tank but i think it should get a buff, the panther m10. tech tree panther is lke way better and yes tech tree should be better but premium legit sucks. id keep the armor the same but give it a 280 alpha with 500 less dpm than panther but even better gun handling than panther(which is already amazing)
karmic portal
If you really want a kv2 but that’s good just play the su100y. It doesn’t have good armor but the gun is so much more reliable, it’s faster, and the alpha is still quite large at 530. And pramo on the kv2 only did 545 you aren’t even losing that much
jagged crescent
I was so close to agreeing with EGirl until the 2nd half of the paragraph
nocturne mauve
Haha
full token
I hate how they make it so hard to know whether they’re trolling or not. So random with all the buff or nerf suggestions...
austere citrus
i just give a suggestion whenever something crosses my mind that sucks/too strong, they should add balance suggestion, also, RU 251 is balanced(it does get bullied a lot by HE tho) but its SPEED
remote oriole
Nerf the shell velocity of all heavies drastically to force them into close combat
austere citrus
btw, Vickers CR should get a pen nerf, armor nerf(like SP I C armor), if its still OP after that, we continue nerfs
unique scaffold
Not all heavies. Some are not intended for close range fighting.
crude kite
I think the German rear turret heavy tank tree needs a buff, compared to the same tier heavy tanks, the vk4502B doesn't have any better than that the Sidescraping angle due to the rear turret is useful.
Because, for now, the thickness of the side ammor is too ambiguous to use at Sidescraping. Sidescraping is the main rear turret tank, and when fighting a tier 10 or tank destroyer, there is a lot of demerit for the Sidescraping angle, and I can't really feel the merit of the rear turret such as aiming time or incidence, and the driving speed is the same tier. Compared to the German heavy tank, it is not very fast.
Also, I think I can explain to you why it is difficult to see the Vk4502B and VK7201 in the gameplay as well as the defects of the next tier of the previous car.
Honestly, anyone who has been on Tier 10 will know that it is very difficult to see the VK7201 in the gameplay.
And if you look at the reason a few times, you will know enough.
(I'm using a translator, but I'm stuck with a sentence limit, so I'll post some later)
austere citrus
I disagree, the VK 45.02B is a very strong tank, however the VK 72.01 isnt as good, the frontal armor is good, but the side armor is awful on the 72.01K, maybe turret/side armor buff? idk. Side armor on the VK 45.02B is very poor however, but usable at a 70+ degree angle. also, should RU 251 get a power weight buff?
crude kite
To all of you
If you ask to choose which tree you want to play among the E100 tree and the VK7201 tree, I think there will be more E100 trees. The first vehicles on the way to reach them have no advantage over other trees. Who would prefer the Vk4502A, the Tiger 2 and the Vk4502A? Of course, there are people who prefer it, but I mean, let's consider which of the two tanks is better, has many advantages, and is useful.
As the tier goes up, this is virtually the same.
The E75 and Vk4502B also have similar conclusions to these questions. (Of course, these two have a little performance difference in terms of speed.) It would be okay to increase the tier.
Would you choose the VK7201, a rear turret that is less stable to operate, or the E100, which has a tree that many recommend that it is universal, convenient and easy to grow?
I honestly like the rear turret tanks.
So I try to write a long text like this.
It would be nice if you could give me something unique, like the trees on either side of the German rear turret heavy tank tree.
In fact, it's been a long time since Yitri died....(@austere citrus Honestly, as I've driven both the VK4502B and E75, the gun, armor, etc. are similar in many ways... but Vk4502B more slower and rear turret that requires careful operation.
The problem of next Tree also plays a part.)
remote oriole
The VK is already very unique with its trollish armour layout and I would call it balanced. It doesn’t need to be strong like the E100, and it’s a good choice when you are looking for a more challenging German superheavy. The VK 45.02 (P) Ausf. B is the same as one tier higher, it’s basically a more challenging edition of the E75 which is still well balanced (and actually not much worse). It’s only really the VK 45.02 (P) Ausf. A that is a bit weird because it doesn’t fit, it’s basically a derpy oversized medium that is fairly hard to play, and that is the only tank I think that could use a rework to be more like the rest of the line as a more challenging variant of the German superheavies (while the E100 is the standard and the Maus is the rock)
crude kite
I think the Vk4502A really needs rework... it's an armor that can't be considered a heavy tank's armor.
The final gun, which has a lower performance than the Tigger 2, is faster than a heavy tank, but less maneuverable than a medium-sized tank.
What I'm going to say about the Vk4502B is that the dispersion of the gun when maneuvering and turning is quite poor compared to the E75. Heavy tanks obviously have a high degree of dispersion during maneuvering and turning, but the Vk4502B's E75 dispersion is definitely bad, which is quite annoying for rear turret tanks that have to keep moving and changing the angle. Second, since the armor on the side of the vehicle is 100 mm, even a slight error in the angle will cause it to penetrate very easily.
Considering the difference between tier 9 and tier 10, where the difference in performance is quite severe, this means that tier 10 and fights are quite disadvantageous. Third, compared to the E75, there is no better point... By the way, compared to the E75, it is quite ridiculous, but which of the tanks that have the same tier and performance difference in the game will you choose?
Unless you are a person who wants to take on new challenges.
nocturne mauve
VK 45 is horribly trash, why didn’t that get a buff instead of tiger 2
crude kite
In the case of the Vk7201, to tell you a few things, I heard that the tanks you have to pass through to reach do not have much functionality, unlike similar friends on both sides, and have advantages and disadvantages in that they are rear turrets. Also, if you know that the Vk7201 turret armor structure is too weak, it will penetrate very well. (It is true that I do not know well because I have not driven.)
It may seem strange to ask for a buff for a vehicle that you haven't driven, but frankly, I haven't seen the Vk7201 during recent gameplay. Looking around the Blitz-related information site, unlike the E100, the turret armor penetrates well even with ordinary ammunition, and the Vk7201's DPM per second is described as being worse than the E100.
Except for a decrease in DPM per second, the rest is not much different.
I think the research on VK7201 will be completed soon... I am worried in many ways...
compact nymph
I’m doing failry well in the VK 45.02 A and have no problems with the tank because I know how to drive it. Not saying I’m against a buff, would appreciate to sealclub even more in it lol😈
indigo knot
I don't know if RU has the same Wallet Warrior to F2P ratio that NA has...
@unique scaffold All prems were on very first charts....even wz120gft
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/502017295107883008/515076757376991243/5.4_-_tier_8.png?width=1026&height=454
vale sun
yellow bars on a white background yikes
austere citrus
maybe the vk72.01 should get a 2 second reduced reload, and 20mm more turret armor. Also for VK 45 A(I think its more like a heavium even though that armor is bad), maybe make it a collectable and add in a tier 8 rear mounted tank? Like there arent many tier 8 rear mounted tanks.
nimble zodiac
At least recommend a tank to replace it with, but the wording for your heavium argument is... contradictory? The armor is bad for a heavy, and could work against some mediums, "even though" seems like the wrong phrase to reason against it being a heavy
karmic portal
It would be nice if it was like a tiger 1 at tier 8, give it a decent turret and troll upper plate and it becomes super strong
austere citrus
pretty sure in PC, the vk 45 A has 150mm frontal armor, that makes it way better than its 120mm rn, so upper plate has around 240-280mm(PC specs), and bottom plate around 170-200mm(PC specs) which makes it a competitive heavy especially with its speed and good gun, TURRET armor though. even AP rounds with low pen can pen the turret armor on the vk 45
nimble zodiac
I'd be fine if the turret got super-buffed to like Tiger II+ level
austere citrus
if it had a 150mm hull, and a new mega strong is4 turret, it would become the most broke tank,
orchid grove
@austere citrus 305mm is pretty bad for an upper hull ngl, especially considering that's while using gun depression, and without normalization. That's not enough to bounce most heavy and TD prammo shells at tiers IX and X
nimble zodiac
Therefore give it a god turret but leave the hull? That'd make it a really good heavium for well, a heavium
@austere citrus It already has a very good cupola. Buffing the side armor is buffing the hull armor. I just say the turret should get buffed very noticeably
Also, why is T34 losing?
ionic ivy
just load skill rounds, they exist for a reason
austere citrus
^^^ Turret should be super strong like IS4, Ive seen people use the VK 45 super well and make the hull hard to pen but that turret is legit potato. Maybe tiger 2 turret and a cupola buff, like stronger cupola than tiger 2 because tiger 2 cupola is weakkkk but Hull buff would be nice but a 'better' idea would instead of buff hull armor, buff side armor, maybe give it 120mm of side armor so u can reverse side scrape and do decently well
orchid grove
Actually, I don't think the solution is armor. We already have the E-75 and Mauschen that it competes in armor with
I think the solution is gun stats. Leave the armor, and maybe even nerf the lower plate some.
Make the VK 45 something like a German Conqueror. Give it an accurate gun with reasonable DPM (although not anything crazy)
VK 45.02A is already something of a support tank as well(albeit it does that role really poorly), and honestly, VK 72 should receive a similar rework (although give it a 12,8cm option instead of the 15cm)
austere citrus
i dont disagree, but maybe the accuracy of a panther with a 310 alpha gun and maybe the exact same dpm as the panther. Seems a bit strong but the gun would be really sexy, more gun pen is always a bonus
orchid grove
310 alpha is a bit low for the tier IX VK 45.02B. Let the 45.02B keep the 12,8cm gun with 460 alpha, but then give it DPM on par, if not slightly better than an M103 or something, and then give it some solid accuracy
Giving the VK 45.02A's 310 alpha 105mm gun with good accuracy, and probably more pen as well would be a welcome change though
nocturne mauve
They should add the tier X from PC after the T-10
karmic portal
I think if the tier 8 vk got a super strong turret or a strong tiger 2 like front plate would be great for it. And the vk 45b that gun idea sounds nice
I think the t34 is so low because in ru since people don’t shoot pramo any tank that has armor that can’t be penned by standard ammo is made op, like the is6 and Ferdinand with their unusually high wr, and tanks like the t34 with weak hull are made bad.
austere citrus
maybe give it 2-4 degrees more gun depression on the 310 alpha gun(so 8-10 degrees of gun depression, a STRONGER/AS STRONG turret as the Tiger 2 with panther 2 dispersion/accuracy with the current 310 alpha, 225/275/80 enhanced pen, and 500-700 more DPM, would be great for a tank like the VK 45 A
plucky laurel
Okay,ISU152 needs a Buff of some kind. It is an absolutely horrid grind to get BL10,and without BL10 it is absolutely horrible. And if you can't grind 75k xp without something better than the Stock Gun and 2 Guns from IS and IS3 then you have to get 44k XP for the next best thing,the BL9S. Either adjust its XP Gains or something else that will make the Grind more bearable
unique scaffold
Money or free xp. That is how you make any grind more bearable.
nimble zodiac
Also ISU is a great tank with the BL-10, gotta get a big price for tier 10 guns
viscid blade
balancing a tank by its grind is a horrible idea, they are usually balanced by being very gud maxed
formal vale
I mean, the ISU-152 is pretty well balanced. It has pretty questionable accuracy, practically no armor, very little HP, no turret, and it's not blisteringly fast either.
It's only good because of it's alpha damage and penetration values
nimble zodiac
And the DPM for such alpha damage is amazing, never overestimate its reload
ionic ivy
Not grille level, but it can still pump out damage. Just don't get spotted because your mantlet can only block so many shells.
austere citrus
VK 45 A with 310 alpha gun has 6 deg of gun depression, like at least 8 bruh, i swear the hull has more effective armor than the turret, even a tiger P has a stronger turret than this turret
nimble zodiac
What will it do with it? Use the turret armor? n o p e
deft owl
@plucky laurel Isu needs buff because its stock guns are bad? Looool
drowsy idol
T95 also needs a buff because the stock guns aren’t bearable
past dome
Nothing to do with the Balance, there is no place to make a suggestion. Two things, could we get "In Platoon" and "In Tournaments" indicators, so players do not send request multiple times.
Also, When searching for a player in the search bar, could it priorities "Your Friends" prior to the rest of the players in the server?
austere citrus
i mean t95 should get buffed, i dont use it but i can legit pen the frontal armor with AP rounds from a 252U, there should be a tank that can absorb everything from the front
ionic ivy
I would just remove the gigantic weakspot that is the T95 hull, keep the cupolas. Fun fact, high caliber HE can overmatch the roof of the T95
drowsy idol
Just buff the speed so it’s harder to hit those weak spots
austere citrus
^^^^
turbid smelt
@ionic ivy HE does not overmatch armour
That luxury is only available to AP/APCR rounds
You can triple overmatch roof of T95 on flat ground with gun caliber of 120mm or bigger with AP/APCR shells
yea you can overmatch sides with gun caliber more than 153mm
like AMURICAN 155mm
tender bison
Nothing to do with the Balance, there is no place to make a suggestion. Two things, could we get "In Platoon" and "In Tournaments" indicators, so players do not send request multiple times.
Also, When searching for a player in the search bar, could it priorities "Your Friends" prior to the rest of the players in the server?
@past dome maybe we should also be able to message platoon mates and other while waiting for the battle in the queue or something, because right now, theres no way of telling the platoon commander to go back to the garage and choose another tier
ionic ivy
Damn, forgot HE couldn't overmatch. The main selling point of the T95 is the frontal armor, but it's no bueno since you could overmatch sides through the tracks and also overmatch the roof as well as going through the bottom of the hull.
To add, maybe add an indicator to tell when a person is in a battle or not?
jagged crescent
i like the indicator/status idea
past dome
@past dome maybe we should also be able to message platoon mates and other while waiting for the battle in the queue or something, because right now, theres no way of telling the platoon commander to go back to the garage and choose another tier
@tender bison That would be nice too for those who do not use discord.
To add, maybe add an indicator to tell when a person is in a battle or not?
@ionic ivy I am not sure if it is a glitch, but I have noticed that sometimes it shows players in-game as offline. That would be nice, but they are 7 minute matches.
austere citrus
i can legit pen the front of a T95 with AP(not even HEAT/APCR) rounds through the front. Legit. Not like the bottom part. Like legit through the front of the tank.
jagged crescent
Ho-Ri premium ammo
quasi cloud
Lol true they need to buff t95 lower front to make sure that every t9 tanks cant pen with normal rounds although it have only 133 raw armour it can get to 250+ but that is of course you are facehugging a tank but if u dont and just use the high ground the armor is surprisingly only 220-250 mm of effectiveness
unique scaffold
Nah t95 isn’t what really needs a buff. The t28.... it is so bad
jagged crescent
^^
shy trail
The t28 front needs a big buff lol I can pen it easily
verbal pond
wasssssup
nimble zodiac
T95's LFP is around 274mm effective against AP, and around 300mm against HEAT at gun level so uhh... buff T28
austere citrus
its either buff the armor for t28 or buff the gun and make it OP, its either OP armor or OP gun, i think armor would be better because the tank is legit so easy to pen and the HP is super low. It's so funny when I come across one because they always die. Maybe give the frontal armor 305mm effective? but keep the sides weak, also taht cupola is legit trash
solemn crag
challenger too weak overall
tender bison
nah its got great mobility and a great gun, its basically medium
low crypt
With no armor
robust hull
Kinda weird people here talking about how weak t28 and t95 are (and I agree, they both should receive an armor buff and a little more speed) and then someone comes and say how weak challenger is
Bruh
olive dagger
Nerf smasher
peak olive
Make the top speed of black prince higher than 20km/h bec it's to slow,but got good acceleration
muted rampart
@peak olive black prince is already op so idk why u wanna buff it
peak olive
I mean the max speed to be increased
compact nymph
I mean the max speed to be increased
@peak olive The BP doesn’t need a buff.
ornate cloak
i can speak german and english
verbal thistle
If only Wargaming adds manual zoom
shy olive
Man buff the armour of lowe it’s paper
compact nymph
The armor is good enough. You are not supposed to stand in the open.
nocturne mauve
It’s only because tiger 2 is OP, just nerf tiger 2
fossil spruce
lowe armor paper? you should try it before the buff
pallid ocean
Pls Nerv Vickers CR. He is toxic, and the turret is to troll to pen.
real bison
how is the CR “toxic” in any way lol
plush perch
@real bison because turret is tough for tier 8 lts and mts
formal vale
I guess he's saying it's easy to be toxic in the Vickers CR, but it's easy to be toxic in most tanks
unique scaffold
nerf smasher
nocturne mauve
No don’t
robust hull
Vickers CR is difficult to pen even in tier 10 tanks. Turret too small, too fast and a huge lot of gun depression makes it quite impossible to hit. Light tanks should not have armor.
cries in leo1
barren zenith
Man buff the armour of lowe it’s paper
@shy olive yes
jagged crescent
hahhaha no. Learn to angle
nimble zodiac
Lowe is only paper in the open, even then you can make it a somewhat hard time trying to hit the lower front plate from a distance, especially with the russian 122mms. Lowe is one of the terrain gods, able to sidescrape, hulldown, and poke with relative safety. The gun is great, the speed isn't too hindering, and the armor is very usable. It prints credits, and that's good because it's a tank that can easily affect its credit production
austere citrus
u gotta get lucky, the 80mm side armor is legit worse than a tiger 1 and the frontal armor is meh with AP but easily penned by everything with APCR/HEAT. Personally, a buff to 160mm hull from 150mm would be great especially since it was much slower than it came out(feels slower to me) and the side armor increased to 100mm, that side armor so bad
nimble zodiac
It'll autobounce AP/APCR so idk what you're on about. 270mm+ against HEAT, their best bet is to either hit the turret, which can be very hard against a good Lowe player, or hit the turret rounding on the side, which RNG wouldn't want
@mossy haven research the tank if you want to buy it for performance
mossy haven
Buff T28 pilot 1 because there are players who spent 40 dollars on it that are disappointed by the tank being garbage.
dense walrus
They should have done some research before wasting money then
distant river
Yes garbage 👌
Many more tanks need a buff at tier 8 before the pilot
drowsy plaza
I’m only 70% in it. Clearly needs a buff.
remote oriole
I didn’t know that a tank sold in crates must be op per definition
drowsy plaza
A great deal of players don’t understand how to play US Meds, so I’d expect a lot of complaints about the Pilot when it’s legit a better Pershing
mossy haven
@dense walrus I spent 2 dollars on it...
austere citrus
super pershing should get buff not bec its bad because it doesnt feel right. the cupola too easy to pen, so hull armor goes to 203mm from 177mm, and turret armor gets buffed, mostly because i want to feel a little scared when i face one like during ww2. and thats about it, just armor buff, i dont even have the tank, im just saying because i can too many of them
coarse harness
It needs gun handling buff not armor
hearty tapir
Egirls are op, nerf them
sour comet
@drowsy plaza their not a lot of complaints because the tank is not op.
uncut osprey
Eveyday egirl suggests a new tank to be buffed, super pershing is decent. Its a noob bully and it does it well🤷♂️
nimble zodiac
Also it has a troll turret :(
distant river
Let's take a minute to talk about the standard B. Take the leopard. Nerf the mobility a bit. Give it a clip with an autorealoder. Give it HEP. Give it 10° of gun depression. Then for some ungodly reason make it a tier 9. This thing has such a high skill ceiling it's just embarrassing.
This was all played after the nerfs, including grinding the crew from 75% with boosters some of the time, and in a platoon for between half and 2/3 of the time. This is not even the limit of what it can do because when I play it I can see missed potential. It's just stupid. I'm all for high skill ceilings but this is just too high
nocturne mauve
The nerfs were nothing
vale sun
people were averaging 4k with the unerfed version
austere citrus
E3 should get a gun handling nerf, more dispersion, more aim time, and a little more reload. STB-1 should also get power weight ratio nerf
full token
Hm now is this one of the troll posts, normal posts, or a mix of the two
muted rampart
@distant river I think standard should get dmg nerf to 310 and Leo PTA should get 9° of gun depression
distant river
310 alpha would definitely balance it without killing it too much, I would quite like to see how 3.5 intraclip and half a second extra per shell would play like in game as well but it might just make it too awkward.
nocturne mauve
What if standard and progetto get 2 shells instead of 3
full token
Ew. That’s no good
distant river
It could work, gives them advantages over single shot guns while not making them a normal clipper with no long reload. I can't really imagine how they would play at all but it could work. It would certainly make them more unique, whether they would be useful or not I really can't tell.
austere citrus
ngl, i agree with the 310 alpha idea, that would be a way beter idea
zenith zenith
There's something with T29, T30 and T34's mantlet
They're super easy to pen, any 120mm gun in tier 9/10 can pen it
While the game shows it's red
thick rover
Leo PTA gets 9 degree then may I know what the difference with leo 1 is besides the weaker gun handling and DPM?
woven harness
@verbal thistle there is manual zoom already
austere citrus
i mean ngl, difference between leo pta and leo 1 is very tiny from the standard b and progetto. Progetto just better, maybe the leopard 1 gets a stronger turret, not like 140/62a turret but like maybe 100mm-120mm??? strong enough to ricochet some shots?
winged barn
It already bounces way more than it should. Its supposed to be a glass cannon, not a better stb
drowsy plaza
The mantle gets a lot of troll bounces
real bison
@austere citrus honestly I don’t think leopard 1 should get a turret buff, it needs a rework to stay competitive imo.
Perhaps the 120mm that the 1A5 could mount? Replace the 350 damage with 390, you could either keep the DPM the same or lower it to balance the damage per shot? keep the accuracy and overall gun feel the same?
If I wanted a glass cannon, I’d play a Grille, same reason for accuracy. If I want DPM, the T-62A or Obj.140. If I want speed I’d play a VL and have 120mm HE pen.
regal grove
it just needs better camo
crisp elm
Leo PTA definitely needs buff. I think -8 depression will take viable
lunar niche
Just give both Leo higher alpha and pen.
jagged crescent
Pen, i'm ok with. Alpha? Not so much, unless it involves decreasing the reload to keep the dpm more or less the same
round bluff
e50 should get -8 frontally as well
real bison
@jagged crescent imo pen doesn’t matter much, as the Leopard 1 already has joint 1st for most pen on a MT, tied with the 4202. And 5mm isn’t a huge margin, either.
winged barn
Rammer+double food+leopard 1= dead enemies
Heavies have been noob proofed. I guess mediums are next
blazing plaza
you guys all hating on the autoreloaders
swift mauve
I have the 4202, it’s not the best tank out there but it’s definitely not the worst
deft owl
@drowsy plaza Pershing is crap for years just like Centurion 1. There is no need to play with pilot 1 to realize that. Wg refuses to buff them because grinding those lines should be as painful as possible. Instead they buff Is-6, Is-5 and Obj252u because they obviously needs buff lmao.
unique scaffold
Tbh wargaming should just make leo 1s gun the king of accuracy and soft stats it really would not do harm to not do it
Buff the Chinese IS2 it is so bad
acoustic shard
Decrease the t95e6 chances of tanking module damage. It feels like a Chinese tank. And give it the same cupola armor as the t110e3 along with a 0.4 second reload reduction to make it more competitive with it's teck tree variant.
austere citrus
@real bison a 120mm gun with 400 alpha would be nice, very very nice
unique scaffold
It’s sad to see people want a prem to be buffed to be a counterpart to a tech tree tank
thick rover
Isn't it meant to be a counterpart, just like any other tech tree tank, just not more OP theoretically
While It has best accuracy, the aim time is not that special, and you don't deny a tank a buff by displacing players to another tank as a form of justification
real bison
@unique scaffold the Leopard 1 is already the most accurate medium tank. It has the best gun stats for any medium. But it’s the only thing it has. Again, if you want accuracy or gun stats in general, play the Grille, if you want DPM, play either a T-62A or Obj.140. And if you want speed, play the VL and have 120mm HE pen, including some usable armour.
vale sun
leo 1 needs an actual penetration advantage like it does in other games. 270 standard pen and 330 premium pen coupled with an extra degree of gun depression is what I'd give it
austere citrus
^^^, why play a leopard 1 when theres a Vickers Light with amazing the amazing HESH, size, and armor. Turret is legit not able to be penned unless your lucky because that mantlet is so strong. Same as basically every other medium which has a strong turret. The Vickers Light/other mediums are more low to the ground especially the vickers being tiny liek the SP I C while also having BETTER armor than the leopard 1, yes leopard 1 DPM is strong, and yes, its strong when played right/lucky, but that camo sucks, even a massive camo increase would make the tank amazing. However, the gun is great, but its not that good. Like, imagine we had a leopard 1 with a 400 alpha, 120mm gun with 270mm/330mm/100mm pen with 10 deg of gun depression and a decent camo buff. That would be nice. Sacrificing armor for an amazing gun+mobility+camo. Because yes gun accuracy is good, but lets be honest, its good but other tanks are good enough. Its like saying i have a 2080 ti to play world of tanks when a 1060 will already give u the max performance, its not worth it because it already good enough to get maximum performance. But yes, a second gun on the leopard 1, a little less DPM too with that gun but still the most in the game would be LOVELY
unique scaffold
That would make the amx 30 b entirely useless the correct way would be pen or accuracy Dont get me wrong leopards is the best gun of all the meds but literally by a slight margin the Soviets still outperform it on average
verbal thistle
@woven harness how?????
It only zooms when we have a clear shot on the enemy or when our reticle is very close to the the enemy hit box
deep quartz
wg, fix the gd mm for christ sake, it unsurprisingly terrifically sucks. People intentionally driving in front, crappy players who can’t do 1k dmg. balance the players wg.
woven harness
@verbal thistle im not sure about mobile devices, but its definitely there on pc in blitz. in settings there is an option to change between "automatic zoom" and "manual zoom" manual zoom is just 3 rolls on the mouse scroller which zooms to different distances. Im not sure its possible to implement such a mechanic on mobile devices since this is the way it works on WoT PC as well, and the screen is already full of buttons
verbal thistle
Yeah. I am a mobile user. So I am not blessed with manual auto aim. I was talking about adding manual auto aim in mobile devices because sniping at long range will become easier especially for moving targets.
hearty steeple
Autoaim for mobile makes it easy to hit moving targets at long range. It is literally designed to do that
verbal thistle
Nah
I still prefer to use the old version of auto aim
The new version gives lead but sometimes you miss like obvious shots thqg you won't miss with old auto aim
dapper thorn
pls add armour to leopard
austere citrus
then its another STB-1 but better, leopard is all about the gun, just add another gun thats 120mm, 400 alpha, 270/330/100mm pen but like 3.3k DPM instead of like 3.6k
thick rover
Why the heck u need armour on leopard
neat dome
TD skills are overpowered
somber plank
anything can be overpowered in uprising tho
neat dome
TD just shots his skills and our mt dies -.-
plush perch
@neat dome mt just uses skill and gets all health back ._.
deft owl
@real bison T62a has better aim time then Leopard 1. Which is ironic that a russian med is more accurate then german med.
winged barn
Oh no, that must mean that the leopard has a bad accuracy. Oh wait. Nope. The accuracy is basically perfect even while moving.
Leo 1 perks:
Laser accuracy
Godly dpm
Great mobility
Solid gun depression
And you want the gun buffed more?
Sure, I guess we could add some 183 alpha and hori pen to it. because the gun somehow is not good enough
unique scaffold
The soviets still have better soft stats though on the move like ive said before yeah leopard has good accuracy but its literally only a smidge better than all the mediums it literally will not hurt to buff its gun
Its not really “laser” accurate even E50M can reach the same dispersion number leopard can still miss its shots the dpm rarely gets put to use due to the profile and lack of armor of course mobility is best of the mediums upto light level and the gun dep is alright except For having to deal with getting penned
winged barn
@unique scaffold I'm gonna have to ask, but have you played the leopard 1 recently?
You can go full idiot and yolo and still burn something to the ground using dpm.
If it isnt laser accuracy, then literally nothing else in the game comes close to laser accuracy.
And the mobility. It is far superior to the other mediums. The only things that can compare with mobility are the light tanks. The flanking ability (mobility) gives it plenty of ways to use its [dpm]. It also get many more bounces than you give it credit for, at least while not sitting confront of a tank
Maybe I just have weird tastes in tanks. But I consider the leopard to be very close to OP in its current state.
unique scaffold
@winged barn yes yes i have played it recently and saying going full yolo in it and dpming something to death is laughable that applies to most tanks and in practice that never works as youll most likely die by the time you get a second shot in and if you wish to bother looking into the dispo ratios some tanks still have the same dispo number
winged barn
Wow. Look at the inaccuracy.
I'm on something. Thank you.
If its balanced, why are you suggesting buffs?
aRe yOu oN sOmEtHiNg?
1.81 aImTiMe iS bAd
Shall I throw in other tanks that make the accuracy of the leopard look amazing? Because I can.
I picked the other very accurate tanks for a reason. Should I stress that VERY ACCURATE? hey look, the leopard is right with them in terms of accuracy.
If you cant hit with a leopard 1, nothing else will either
unique scaffold
its got the most aim time you must be on something if you think leopards OP its not op at all its balanced and is doing fine how it is im just saying a gun buff wouldnt do harm to it leopard has many critical downsides that keeps it balanced
I like how you keep dodging my points on how the leopards downsides are impossible to ignore but nah i guess leopard will always get outsniped by 140s and 62S or replaced by vicks point still stands its just an idea not an legitimate suggestion “your points” = proof that you ignored no armor huge profile and limited use gun depression also why am i even arguing with the dude who seriously said yoloing in leopard 1 is a good example of using the dpm this is a waste of time
winged barn
You points
Soviets have soft stats that are better
equivalent actually and at that scale they literally make no difference
Other tanks have the same dispersion. Cool, the 310 alpha peashooters are the only ones that have comparable soft stats
Huge profile? Compared to what? A batchat?
No armor-> the best armor is not getting shot (see mobility and gun depression)
"You can go full idiot and yolo"
Lmao, I quoted myself
Did I say it was intelligent? Nope.
unique scaffold
Yeah im not gonna keep it up with you its a waste of time its one of the biggest meds and no matter how fast or how much gun dep youll still get penned its also not like the 140 and 62 are infinitely better at all roles too but why even mention “yoloing in leopard can melt someone with its dpm” its the best thing ive ever heard later .
winged barn
@unique scaffold yoloing at someone with a leopard will indeed significantly reduce their hp pool. If we ignore the first part of what I stated.
2 shots? One loaded when I began the engagement (1) and one 5.5 seconds later(2)
I must say a yolo death in less than 11 seconds before shot (3) is quite a speedy death
plush perch
@winged barn u can go full idiot and yolo , but u get 2 shot best and u are ded
thick rover
Ok anyway it's for discussion we don't need to provide a resolution, both sides have put their points out for WG and or community to think about just don't evolve into all out war
turbid smelt
I would say if leo 1 had better aimtime it would become quite stupid strong tonk
real bison
honestly my problem with the leopard is that it just get outperformed by the T-62A, Obj.140, VL and other tanks. Pick any stat you want from the Leopard 1, and there is a tank at Tier X that has a similar stat. Why would you play this tank for the accuracy, when, again, you could play a grille for the same accuracy, while doing ~540 instead of ~350?
Why play a Leopard 1 for its top speed of 65kp/h when I could play a VL for the same speed, while having 120mm of HE pen, which, by the way, can be used to out DPM the Leopard 1 in a head to head situation.
Why have -9° when I can play an STB and have -10°?
distant river
Because there is no tank with its mobility, dpm and accuracy in one. If you are playing for only one stat then you are looking at it in completely the wrong way.
It's a beautiful high skill ceiling tank but it's difficult to play, buff it and suddenly the unicums that can play it well will be able to dominate easily
remote oriole
The thing is that it’s not that much more mobile than the standard medium, and it’s not that much more accurate than your standard light and it has not that much more dpm than the other tanks. It misses a key feature that allows you to utilise it in a special way on the battlefield, and while it has good characteristics in the stats you mentioned they are quite simply not great by any measure, but simply... good? Above average? Not enough to use them as an advantage over other tanks.
The tank lost its unique ability to be the tier ten scout amongst the mediums, and it lost its ability to outdpm other mediums... even the E50 M and the WZ-121 can compete in a trade-off, and they have either armour or alpha to back them up. You are basically stuck with using your mobility to try an support your team wherever you can, since first line duties such as scouting and trading are unthinkable thanks to your lack of camouflage, viewrange and armour. The tank quite simply does not have a role in this game anymore and is completely out of meta
mossy peak
Honestly I agree leo is kinda out of metta most meds can out dpm leo and plus to give the meds a advantage they have impenetrable torrents while leo those not so if u are in a leo trying to play peekaboo with a t 62 or a 121 u will get demolished
dark glen
“Most meds can out dpm Leo” since when?
distant river
It's out of meta but it doesn't need to be in meta. The Leo has the best dpm among meds so no med can out dpm it (unless you count the 4202 with HESH). You should also never been trying to play peekaboo with a tank like this, and if you are them it sure ain't the tank that's bad. It's a pure flanker made to hit hard when it isn't focused, and so it needs skill to play well.
Basically no med apart from the T62 and T22 maybe can compete in this heavy meta that's what the buffs has caused.
sudden path
Leo has a phenomenal gun and great mobility, but that's about it. It's just not able to compete very well in an e5 and is 4 meta.
remote oriole
It’s a tank that requires you to constantly try and dodge enemies and finding ones that are distracted (not even isolated, no, distracted) so you can farm damage. It’s an annoying and limiting playstyle
At least you don’t have to be very skilled and aware to camp, it’s way more chilled than the Leopard 1 gameplay where you constantly have to check everything
nimble zodiac
So is waiting for shots like a TD ;)
distant river
The tank isn't the limiting thing that's the player. The gun and mobility make it one of the highest skill cap tanks in the game. It may be a challenge to play but that's a great feature of it which makes it enjoyable and rewarding to play.
remote oriole
I don’t find farming damage particularly rewarding. I think spotting or generally contributing to the team effort by blocking a flank or holding the front is way more rewarding than just using your allies to farm damage
distant river
You can make an initial spotting run, reset your camo then just soften up targets for your team. One of the main things it can do that's very useful is finishing off tanks who are a one or two shot and are staying back. They will generally be fully focused on the greens in front of them so you can take the flank and take out an extra gun.
plush perch
may i know why batchat has worse viewrange than stb? either intra clip or same viewrange as vickers would be so nice, who agrees?
orchid grove
Ngl, Leopard’s profile is a huge problem. It seems like it would be low profile, but it’s actually a pretty fat tank
remote oriole
If you make an initial spotting run chances are that you will either be outspotted by a Vickers or just get slapped by a Sheridan, or if you are lucky it’s only a Bat Chat who will probably trade one shot at most with you, if you manage to spot it in the first place
lavish mist
yeah spotting runs are terrible, unless youre in a vickers or sheridan. Really they see way too far, especially the Sheridan which doesnt need a good view to hit you
distant river
If you can't spot well then don't, it isn't essential but it's definitely possible. If you think you are going to be outspotted by a light then choose an unorthodox place where people won't expect you to pop out. @remote oriole
@lavish mist Good luck hitting a Leo at max speed using an ATGM which I assume is what you are talking about.
remote oriole
@distant river I know how to spot, it’s just that the Leo is not particularly good at it because its turret is very weak and won’t make anyone take time to aim and since it’s camouflage and view range is fairly average for mediums you won’t get away unspotted. The lights don’t only have better armour but also better camouflage which allows them to spot enemies unspotted by keeping some distance even while moving
distant river
If I'm spotting then I'm either exposed for less than a second so there's no chance at all anyone will be able to react in time but I can still light up the reds, or I'm in such an unusual place and going so fast that the reds barely have time to react before I'm in cover ket alone aim, lead and shoot. If you plan your first moves well then you can easily spot then get to cover and play the rest of the game as it turns out. You are also going to get to spots faster than almost every tank so you can use that for surprise, and even if the reds have another fast tank you can guess where he will go and avoid it or counter it.
remote oriole
That would just be a first spot which you can make in any fast tank, nothing that makes the Leopard 1 any good.
distant river
The leo has the equal best top speed and best power to weight ratio so it can use that better than any other tank. It also has the best dpm to be used for racking up the damage afterwards if you play smart. It's fast, adaptable and hard hitting and is pretty much the highest skill cap tank in the game apart from maybenthe Vickers but even then it's very very close.
remote oriole
Being that fast can be a disadvantage because some tanks may be too far away to be spotted for the first spot which defeats the purpose of the first spot. Also, the mobility is not that much use because you can only use it in areas where your team hold map control or which are uncontested. And in the end you just end up trying to get into situations which allow you to farm damage, it’s not like you can force enemies to do mistakes by baiting them with your armour, and when they eventually give you the favour of making a mistake you only get 350 alpha to work them over. The gun may be accurate but that literally makes no difference at medium ranges where you are supposed to operate where even heavy tanks can reliably hit you when you peek.
The Vickers literally does what the Leopard 1 used to do; spotting and peeking, the only thing where it lacks behind is the dpm but the thing with dpm is that it’s so high for all tanks that both will bleed severely in a pure dpm fight.
The Leopard 1 is a tank that has characteristics that allow it to farm damage really well, but makes it somewhat useless for everything else, which is why I wouldn’t recommend the tank to anyone because I don’t think that playing the Leopard 1 is an enjoyable experience at all, unless you really like just racking up damage on distracted enemies and not take the initiative in your own hand until the very end
jagged crescent
just give it another reload buff, WG's good at doing that
mellow tree
I love the fact this chat is called balanced discussion but our opinion is not going to change broken tanks, and their still regarding their game as balanced ...
jagged crescent
Enough people complained about missile tanks to have WG nerf them
fallen flower
Tanks R cool
drowsy idol
You need to have at least 3x more complaints about the smasher so it can actually get nerfed
nocturne mauve
It’ll never be nerfed
mellow tree
Enough people complained about missile tanks to have WG nerf them
@jagged crescent yes, but that is the whole community and we had to have a war in the server if you remembered that thing with rolling, they don't listen to us, and they did a servey like 2 weeks ago about them, 7 months after they were released and more than majority wanted them out of the game. We still don't have an answer if missiles are going to get removed or if their just gonna sit there and do absolutely nothing (which I wouldn't be surprised) blitz is going completely in the wrong direction with gambling to get tanks (broken ex smasher or completly trash ex: T25 pilot), and the sheridan nerfs were needed as the tank was completly over powered in every single aspect for a tech tree tank, if it was a collector or a premuimw they wouldn't nerf it, they would just put it in crates with 4% drop chances, with 8% for the legendary camo (WG in a nutshell)
jagged crescent
Tanks r very awesomes
austere citrus
@winged barn E50M is literally almost same gun as Leopard with a THICC STRONK turret+upper hull. @orchid grove that's what I was saying, the leopard 1 is a fat tank.
twilit crystal
Vickers view range is literally so broken. In canyon the entire map is spotted from center. Sure the Patton has 270 but awful camo
austere citrus
they should add the 120mm gun on the leopard, not even cahnge the camo or army and it would be an amazing tank, fast with a beefy gun with good DPM. basically a more faster but lighter 121
hardy hazel
@mellow tree well, they can nerf collector tanks, but i dont know what you have to do to make them nerf the tank or delete it from the game
mellow tree
@mellow tree well, they can nerf collector tanks, but i dont know what you have to do to make them nerf the tank or delete it from the game
@hardy hazel we can try to do a revolution like the French did xd
distant river
Being that fast can be a disadvantage because some tanks may be too far away to be spotted for the first spot which defeats the purpose of the first spot. Also, the mobility is not that much use because you can only use it in areas where your team hold map control or which are uncontested. And in the end you just end up trying to get into situations which allow you to farm damage...
@remote oriole The speed allows you to do whatever you want to do. There is literally no such thing as too fast because if you get there early then you can just wait. Your mobility helps everywhere because you should try to keep moving constantly. You can easily bait reds into making mistakes just by disrupting them when they are focused elsewhere. The vickers doesn't have the speed, accuracy or dpm to compete with the Leo at farming from a flank but it can spot better and hold better. It's a different playstyle. The fun of the Leo is the challenge of playing it effectively, and not everyone enjoys that lots of people love to sit in meta tanks and and play brainlessly. The leo actually requires skill and competence and rewards you for that
hardy hazel
There are a lot of ways to nerf the tank, i dont know hoy much money it will cost, but it shouldnt be too much i think, and even if ppl starts complaining about it being nerfed thats all they can do, cry about it, because wg can change stats from collector tanks
drowsy plaza
WG can change ANY digital good (tank) regardless of premium/enriched/collector/tech tree. The Terms of Service everyone had to accept allows for that.
hearty steeple
I would disagree with that. Easiest example i can think of in mobile gaming which is close to blitz(kinda) would be war robots. They seem pretty successful doing exactly that, in fact they have been doing that for the last 5 years and are still around.
People will buy stuff as long as wg will sell it regardless of what the future holds for said tank
plush perch
@hearty steeple war robots is worse than wotb , p2w
rare sleet
can tortoise be buffed pls
hearty steeple
@plush perch yes they have an anti-player and rather horrible business strategy(and partly why i left that game for good). My only point was premium tanks will still sell even if wg would nerf them
hardy hazel
Or even if they are trash
austere citrus
premium tanks shouldnt be OP but unique. like a tier 5 with 400/560/640 alpha but 30 second reload
plush perch
it will be op
uncut osprey
Yea that would be good for the game, smasher2.0🤦♂️
austere citrus
DPM sucks but alpha is good
wicked pine
dpm doesnt matter when you can just peek a boom
hardy hazel
Smasher 2.0, a big no because it will go against tier 4 and 5
full token
@distant river There is a too fast. Maybe not for any of the tanks in the random battles. It’s noticeable with the special modes like uprising and mad games.
distant river
The leo definitely doesn't fall into that category though and I'm only talking about normal battle situations but yes there's definitely a too fast in special game modes
robust hull
Just move Leo1 to light tanks class
fiery dagger
Instead of playing Blitz this evening :D
fallen flower
Prolly cause u can’t play it lmao
nocturne mauve
Bruh
austere citrus
@robust hull leo works better as a medium tank because its legit bigger than every light tank but they should buff the gun to 120mm from 105mm, because the russians have as good of accuracy, as good of DPM, and way better armor and size and great speed compared to leo1, the gun is good but its not special
jagged crescent
since im stingey, i want a lower repair cost on the 113
nimble zodiac
Yeah if the credits don't do to fixing the traverse every battle then why pay so much?
austere citrus
either buff traverse or buff credits
unique scaffold
Who cares about balance with pay to win and epic LAG
native parrot
Ikr
ionic ivy
or play uprising, where you either lose 50k creds, or win 200k creds and no inbetween
haughty thunder
E100 need a buff
unique scaffold
It really doesn’t joke or not
ionic ivy
Random blitz player:
<insert tank they lost a battle in> needs a buff
unique scaffold
It really doesn’t joke or not
@unique scaffold it really does tho
crystal spoke
There's a long list of tanks that could use a buff thats above the E-100
crisp elm
like patton and fv4202
austere citrus
patton should just get turret+hull buff so it plays like a heavium, and fv 4202 should get a stronger turret
thick rover
Patton I agree with,4202 shouldn't get turret buff imo, it's balanced or just minimally improve gun handling
nocturne mauve
Fv4202 should become centurion ax
ionic ivy
^ I wholeheartedly support this decision
thick rover
^ yet I fully expect WG to do the same it did with 30B, S Conq, Badger
nocturne mauve
Tanks that were perfect fits for the tech tree and what do wg do? Sell them
pastel cairn
In creates no less
eager cove
pls balanced match making, wg. your match making sent me to noobs team while I fought with pro teams
crystal spoke
My mm is fine but this isn't a place to discuss mm
low wolf
why ppl keep asking wg to nerf missle tanks?
crystal spoke
Bc the concept is broken
winged barn
Nerf the missile tanks? No, remove the missiles.
unique scaffold
missiles can be countered and it doesnt do much damage for 13 sec of reload
plush perch
@unique scaffold 🤡
sour comet
E3 need a buff
jagged crescent
U are funny joke man hahahahahahahaaaa
jagged crescent
You’re funny person man hahahahahahaa
eager cove
my day in blitz is done , my wr from 55.08 now down to 54.95. How can I calm down????????
triggereddddddddd
jagged crescent
You should try karaoke
mental pasture
@eager cove read pinned messages
Matchmaking is fair because it's alleatory, are you losing too much? What a lack of luck, maybe even a lack of skill, but not matchmaker fault
jagged crescent
Have fun with Arty
eager cove
lol, i’m playingT92 HTC and waiting for ebr105 spot enemies
mental pasture
Nice 👍
Could be even better if you talked something really related to WOTB balance
fresh notch
when the game end, there is no team table, nothing, just streight to garage.
unique scaffold
When ppl expect good teams on a mobile game with a dev team that takes 12+ hours to fix an issues of server lag
Be patient wg is working for it
unique scaffold
well, I wanted to touch that one subject about MM. Not sure if it goes here into balance but. How can any of you say that MM is balanced?? I mean, this screenshot is 4 months old but yeah, it presents perfectly how unbalanced wr-match ups are. I mean.. how are those 2 50ers supposed to deal with 6 decent-ish players ?? not to mention that one time our team had only 2 prems including me and reds had 5-6 of em, smasher plat too. the mm isn't balanced at all I suppose.
crystal spoke
@unique scaffold it's entirely balanced its random mm so it will balance itself out after time and once you look at a significant data set this becomes clearer
unique scaffold
I mean, it still occurs. no clue how it is on NA but i'm speaking 'bout EU rn
Imo mm should be working on the rule of: 50 vs 50 40 vs 40. and the players who are really good / are trying their best would advance higher in wr. This way 40ers would never interrupt games of 50ers etc. Discussed it already on many servers including dogger's and it seems like a reasonable concept ~ I believe.
full token
That has been discussed many times. It does not work. The 60% players will go down to 50% and the 40% will go up to 50%, and that messes it all up. It’s better the way it is right now. Your team may be weak but you can still win if you try well enough. If you are the good player on your team you will give your team a good chance to win.
distant river
It's impressive how many people come here to cry about not being able to carry and blame it on the MM 👌
unique scaffold
@distant river Nah, not cry. Just because that one person " wants to touch that one subject about MM " doesn't mean they're crying. Everyone has their own opinion and that includes me. I just discussed it with many people and thought It'd be nice to share my idea here as well. To me you sound completely rude ~
Also, based on ur words " Not being able to carry and blame it on the mm " well ma dude. How would you perform if you were lt's say 50wr, rest of ur team being 40-47% While enemies have at least 2-3 60ers and rest are 49-50s? It's a complete bs. sir. well that's all I wanted to say.
distant river
If you are complaining about the inherently perfectly balanced random MM then you are crying about it. If I was a 50% WR and performing like a 50%er then I would know that there is so much more that I could do instead of blaming it on my team. There's more they could do as well, but I can't control that. There's more the reds could do too, but again I can't control that. In that situation, what I would do is try as hard as I could to win, and if I was good enough then I would win. If I wasn't then I wouldn't come here to cry I would improve myself. Oh and you might also want to not ignore all of the games where you have the bbetter team which happen just as often as the opposite. That's because random MM is completely and utterly perfectly balanced.
In short, why blame other people when there's so much more you can do yourself? @unique scaffold
P.S. It's also very funny to see people's daily WR plumet right before they come here to complain, but funnily enough when it's rising you never see them come here to praise it 🤔
@eager cove Go get the average WR of both teams (not including you ofc) over 30 battles. It will be almost exactly 48% for both of them. That is balanced.
unique scaffold
@distant river Ofc " in short, why blame other people when there's so much more you can do yourself? " Dude, I am aware of what you say. The truth Is I carry most of the time but what's the point if in the end that one Noid, Armor or even Immor gonna wreck us ayways ? I cannot carry my whole team all the time. morons split, insult each other, ignore commands / sos requests. It's not how it's supposed to work. let even 2 teams be balanced, nothing's gonna change if bot+1/2 good players are against bot+3/4 60ers. You might not see it as you're probs flexing with " being veteran " or other bs. To put it simply. One or 2 experienced players aren't enough, most of the time, to deal with 3-4 60ers of immor grade. Who cares if I do 4-5k dmg, rest of my team does 600-1.2k if those 3 60ers from reds do 3-4k per player and crush us in the end. My 30days wr is around 54% and lemme tell you something. I try my best to improve as much as possible but those brainless teams don't make it any easier or better ( prepared for ya something in screenshots. Take a look )
distant river
You and me have very different definitions of carrying then. If you are complaining that you are getting outplayed then that is still something you can improve yourself.
Oh and just in case you haven't noticed, this is a free mobile game. People do not take it seriously and could not care less about playing well. The good thing is that these people are on both teams. It would be brilliant if everyone was a good player, but that is never going to happen is it?
I can deal perfectly fine with pretty much anyone I come against, so you saying that one player isn't enough is just a lie. It is possible to win every single battle, just nobody is good enough to do that. You can try your best but you will always lose some.
And it also seems like you need a little taste of what the MM is actually like, so why don't you go average both teams WR over 30 games as well to prove to yourself that it is balanced?
But anyway you don't really know what you want do you? Having bracketed MM puts you at the very bottom end of the 50% bracket so you will be playing much worse. If you want to be at the top of the bracket then you want to abuse less skilled players which is literally just bullying. If you are in the middle of the bracket then you will have the same experience that you have now. This is ignoring how the brackets will completely and utterly fall apart over time due to the nature of the system and all players tending to certain values.
If you carry your own weight then you get those teams. You get occasional outliers which both benefit and detriment you which is a quirk or random MM. But in the end, random MM will always give you a balanced playing field.
distant river
@unique scaffold @eager cove In case you are interested over just 6 of my battles my average teammates WR is 49.47 and the average red is 49.99. Seems pretty fair and balanced to me and that's over a tiny amount of games.
eager cove
Lel
vagrant radish
Can we get the KV-2 its original stats it was balanced just kids were angry because the dero tank did ots job and punished them for rushing an unknown tank without looking at HP tank type and gun so they died instantly
remote oriole
Punishing is not a legitimate job description for anything player-controllable in a game.
plush trellis
Imagine reacting to your own post 🤣
jagged crescent
🤡 can't be me
drowsy plaza
This isn’t a MM cry channel
nocturne mauve
KV-2 is broken, it’s always broken if it has 960 alpha because it can 1 shot anything in its tier
drowsy plaza
KV-2 has the most skewed Dmg/tier/shot ability period.
austere citrus
no its balanced, hitting shots are hard if the player is a noob. It's like the 183 but imagine you arent able to click the fire button, its balanced and fair.
ionic ivy
183 with the almost 4k dpm because of such massive alpha lmaooo
drowsy plaza
@austere citrus my point wasn’t to argue the KV-2, only to point out it’s HE Alpha and Pen are skewed / tier
mental pasture
Not literally anything, it can't 1 shot TOG II* @nocturne mauve
winged barn
ammowrecks
zealous arrow
AMX m4 45 needs love its sad a heavy that has 40mm of side armour (worse than panther) only goes 35kph and has no frontal armour either. Lttb actually has same armour profile as AMX m4 45 which is kinda messed up.
mental pasture
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
swift reef
¯_(ツ)_/¯
austere citrus
well thats why its fun to play, i dont personally play it like i used to, but if we nerf alpha then every tank is gonna start feeling the same
unique scaffold
@distant river Ofc " in short, why blame other people when there's so much more you can do yourself? " Dude, I am aware of what you say. The truth Is I carry most of the time but what's the point if in the end that one Noid, Armor or even Immor gonna wreck us ayways ? I cannot carry my whole team all the time. morons split, insult each other, ignore commands / sos requests. It's not how it's supposed to work. let even 2 teams be balanced, nothing's gonna change if bot+1/2 good players are against bot+3/4 60ers. You might not see it as you're probs flexing with " being veteran " or other bs. To put it simply. One or 2 experienced players aren't enough, most of the time, to deal with 3-4 60ers of immor grade. Who cares if I do 4-5k dmg, rest of my team does 600-1.2k if those 3 60ers from reds do 3-4k per player and crush us in the end. My 30days wr is around 54% and lemme tell you something. I try my best to improve as much as possible but those brainless teams don't make it any easier or better ( prepared for ya something in screenshots. Take a look )
@unique scaffold its a mobile game if u want ppl who will actually take it serious switch to PC
austere citrus
buff kranvagn, give it 12 deg of Gun depression because that reload is legit so bad, 32 seconds for 1200 damage @drowsy plaza pantouflee said it was out of testing today
drowsy plaza
@austere citrus it’s still in testing.
nocturne mauve
It’s gonna be disappointing if it leaves testing the same way
coarse harness
The T9 will be OP probably like all the recent ones lol
mental pasture
32 seconds for 1200 damage? Lol, ISU does 1280 in 24 seconds
austere citrus
its like a 10-8-8 second reload then like 2-3 seconds in between this is tier 10 btw
BUFF gun deg to 12 deg, like literally ill legit rather have 1600dpm than 2400dpm if i get 3 extra degrees
also this is definitely sounds crazy and trollish but can 113 get an alpha buff to 440? yea sounds trollish but feels better
nimble zodiac
Yeah no, no, and no
austere citrus
we gotta get a city map, like an actual city map
jagged crescent
id rather have a credit coefficient buff
austere citrus
yes, please, buff coefficient rate by 2x
ionic ivy
No, not our fault you have to pay so much for consumables, provision, and repairs.
drowsy plaza
This isn’t the place to discuss the pro’s or cons of a special mode.
past cove
Why can I not say Nerf Smasher or Nerf Bat Chat? Just saying
nocturne mauve
Nooo
jagged crescent
Why is the 113 so PRICEY to run
unique scaffold
Then judge the monkeys and maybe the 49% avg wr of the NA/EU server might go up
nimble zodiac
Because the 55-65%ers tend to know how to play their tank?
@remote oriole same lmao
remote oriole
looks at myself Are you sure about that?
drowsy plaza
@unique scaffold you can never get an average WR higher than 48-49%. Without draws the best one could get is 50% then draws count as a loss for both teams so you’re already below 50%.
unique scaffold
Guess monkeys should learn to play
eager cove
¯_(ツ)_/¯, wg can make my wr go down, because I’m team carrier:,)
regal grove
whens the last time i saw something that actually gets you thinking in this channel
ionic ivy
never
eager cove
balance change plz , how the fck 3 guys taken 0 dmg in my team
regal grove
why didn't you just kill the last guy then smh
eager cove
blyat, he sniping and shot me while I didnt know where the shell gone
so I dead like this
which hope to me when I was still have 10hp left?
my 6th ace class with jackson be like that
couldnt conseve hp while these guys rushed me, idi nahui
jagged crescent
why didn't you conseve hp so you can kill last guy smh
ionic ivy
^ smh
nimble zodiac
smh ;)
@azure otter I mean you could slap the BP has 3k DPM why not most tier 10 heavies also argument
azure otter
Imo the $15 kpfpz should be as strong as K-91 like getting a reload or alpha buff maybe since smasher has the same reload as kpf but have more alpha despite being 2 tiers lower
regal grove
it's usable it doesn't need a buff
azure otter
I know it's useable and so is K-91 before the alpha buff and should deserve a little more love for such an attractive looking tank
nimble zodiac
TOG is attractive but hey, I didn't see a substantial HP buff on it
jagged crescent
Almost any tank is usable but that doesn't mean that they are performing well "enough"
ionic ivy
Kpf is just getting powercrept pretty much. It was borderline decent when it came out, now it's just outclassed by pretty much every other t9 heavy
azure otter
The fact that it has the same reload as a tier 7 (smasher) the fact that it has less alpha than it is just plain dumb
unique scaffold
can we get an IQ buff to all the players who thought the KPF was a good tank
nimble zodiac
Well it can pen :p
unique scaffold
It’s got lower standard pen than E75 which is laughable just sell it or stop driving it if you want wargaming won’t touch it
gleaming apexBOT
NikolaiZhukov#4984 has been warned.
drowsy plaza
Let’s face it the K-91 is broken since the alpha buff. It was already very solid and now it’s a dirty Clubber.
winged barn
That's what happens when you give an autoloader the highest dpm of tier 9 heavies
austere citrus
yea kpfpz should either get 640/545/900 alpha or a pretty good reload buff, buff pen to 270/330/100 as well
unique scaffold
Has anyone noticed the t25 pilot has 302m view range but is worse then the actual Pershing
nimble zodiac
LOL 100mm of HE pen? Insta-ignored
regal grove
lets give the highest alpha heavy in tier 9 hesh with 900 damage yea that would be great
austere citrus
it already has 90 mm of pen with HE, and its not HESH, a 10mm upgrade and since it has pretty sure 152mm gun, it should get 640 alpha, u can argue the same for the kv2 then
unique scaffold
I mean it is a 152 😂
round bluff
K91 isn't broken but it has the same damage output potential as the conq now but with actual armor
unique scaffold
Buff my name
flat bane
YES! They should have never touched the first gun. They should give it back its original 640 alpha stats for the non-autoloading gun. It will provide WAY MORE competition between the two guns, while providing two different play-styles.
low wolf
13 seconds reload time is too long for a 105mm in tier 8
plush perch
WG balancing team in a nutshell : Tier 6 light tank vk 28 Cant be HEed from front by su152 and smasher , but tier 7 medium tank chi ri can
full token
There’s heavies with no armor and mediums with armor, lights with armor, TDs with armor. What’s the point? The chi ri isn’t a strong tank but it’s armor doesn’t need to be stronger because of a tier 6 light having better armor
plush perch
@full token so u say getting HE ed from front is balanced for such a large and sluggish tank?
compact nymph
Playing lightly armored tanks requires extreme awareness. If you can’t play them well, don’t. The Chi-Ri is a niche tank you have to play carefully and abuse the dpm/intraclip.
plush perch
@compact nymph sure but getting HEed from front is not a nice for a large and slow tank like this , You are speaking like you never made mistakes
compact nymph
Don’t expose to high caliber guns, simple as that.
plush perch
@compact nymph making it is armor 100mm thick at least wont make it op would not it?
low needle
Just add some spaced armour?
plush perch
that would fix too
ripe roost
Ah yes lets time travel back to 1943 and redesign the chiri tank
plush perch
@ripe roost game is not historically accurate , it is an arcade game , in fact many tanks were blueprints
gleaming apexBOT
NikolaiZhukov#4984 was muted
unique scaffold
@ripe roost game is not historically accurate , it is an arcade game , in fact many tanks were blueprints
@plush perch @nocturne thistlef the Russians and German tech tree @4005 for not even having the right gun @the e5 for not having its cupola bc 4.5 was aids
nocturne mauve
M48 patton used to have a large one
latent snow
why is the type 64 so bad
nimble zodiac
Stats show it was bad just because of it being a free event tank :p
full token
It’s actually fun. I like it
keen nexus
the T7 and T2 need to either have a quicker mag reload or much larger mag, being they both are armed with heavy MGs
nocturne mauve
Imagine caring for 2 trash tanks you can sell for a good profit
compact nymph
I had a stroke trying to read that. Can someone translate?
turbid smelt
he said," Hi, have a good day and don't forget to drink water "
not channel related but he is very kind
full token
He is speaking about missiles hitting behind buildings, walls, etc. And to nerf the gun, not sure if he wants the apcr or the missiles nerfed
austere citrus
nerf ATGM pen to 220/200/80
fossil tide
No
final warren
Honestly it doesn’t need the pen lmao. The missile doesn’t need it, that’s for sure. Half the time I shoot the side of tanks anyways
austere citrus
buff kpfz 70 alpha to 640/900/545 because it has a 152mm gun and dont say that op because a kv2 legit has that, and the kpfz 70 armor is trash, and pretty sure it was 6 degrees of gun depression, so either buff alpha or give it 8-10 degrees of gun depression, and buff pen to 250/310/100 pen or give it an ATGM
Options:
- 640/545/900 Alpha + 255/320/100 pen
- ATGM + Gun Depression
- Gun Depression + Less Reload
- Upper plate to 150mm
- ATGM + 255/320/100 pen
@autumn zodiac You are a helper but you don't even read the entire message? Did you not read what I said below? ALSO BUFF CHINESE CREDITS
autumn zodiac
Not understanding why the ATGM has 900 alpha and increased penetration.
Then again thats probably about how much effort went into the thought for the buff request.
Yes I read Alpha: 640/900/545 and Penetration for the corresponding shells being 255/320/100
Simple mistake or not, that person always asks for ridiculous and unnecessary buffs, it's not unusual at all to expect them to be serious about numbers like that.
final warren
He probably meant HE. Simple mistake
austere citrus
i mean, the alpha isnt even the bad thing, 560 is pretty good but its still a 152mm gun and uh, its mostly the reload/armor/gun depression. Upper hull is so easily penned by even tier 8s, Turret is pretty strong besides like huge tumor. Gun has pretty fair pen but at tier 9, its not so good. I mean its pretty fun to play but its been powercrept too much, even a less reload + gun depression would make it a beter tank
remote oriole
Every buff will make it a better tank, the question is just if it’s necessary, and in case of the KpfPz 70 I would say that while it’s below average it’s still good enough to be competitive, and buffing tanks like that is exactly what causes powercreep
austere citrus
no one in their right mind uses a kpfpz 70 for tournaments, and also, any tank is technically good enough to be competitive, and if its below average, it should get a fair buff, also powercrepts are fine, they change the meta and when they buff/nerf another tank, it also changes the meta which gives variety.
unique scaffold
nerf ATGM pen to 220/200/80
@austere citrus or make its 0/0/0 cuz atgms are a meme
formal vale
The only thing I'd do to the Kpfpz 70 is increase the HE damage to 780. That's it. The gun on its own is very strong, you just can't force it into brawling/knifefight situations.
As for whether it needs this change, the answer is "no". As for whether it would make it more fun to play, the answer is an emphatic "yes".
nimble zodiac
No one in their right mind uses Kpf in tournaments because it's a tier 9, yeah?
austere citrus
i mean no tank 'needs' a change. I mean the gun is pretty strong but a gun depression to 8 degrees and 2 second less reload would make the tank way more fun to play. but its also a 152mm and i think its unfair that it doesnt have 152mm damage. like even 'just' 640/900/545 dmg for now is totally fine
Also, nerf the Foch Cupola. That thing is literally the trollest thing in the game. Even more troll than 252U armor. We all agree that tank is super strong right...
unique scaffold
No
karmic steeple
So much bad in what you just said
nimble zodiac
Stop shooting high or wide :p
uncut osprey
Can you put a spreadsheet together of just the names you want nerfed and buffed, im starting to lose track @austere citrus
flat bane
Don't nerf Foch tf I just got it.
unique scaffold
Lmao foch just doesnt need a nerf. He is as good as he is now. Just bcs you are againts a payer that uses it good doesnt mean it needs a nerf
Also, nerf the Foch Cupola. That thing is literally the trollest thing in the game. Even more troll than 252U armor. We all agree that tank is super strong right...
@austere citrus imma have to agree with u on that ive bounced so much and failed to pen so much on the cupola 😂
austere citrus
u can legit aim in with a leo 1, be like 5 feet away and still bounce
nimble zodiac
Because you’re not hitting the center ._.
unique scaffold
@austere citrus idk never happened to me with leo 1 , i usually aim for the Down plate or hit tracks and circle him and the cupolas are not unpenable.
violet elk
i feel like the obj 263 could use a buff on its gun mantlet. it's way too big of a weakpoint when it has so little going in every other armor department.
-
yeah, i know. im just a little upset at how that plate is so weak when there is literally no other good thing about the armor. 250/80/30 i dont see the need for a super weak super big mantlet when it has everything else about it
-
@autumn zodiac i agree. it already has a lower plate that's 80mm thick
-
@austere citrus while yeah the tank is really good (amazing gun good top speed) the weakness just doesnt make any sense. at t10 everyone has enough credits to afford slinging gold at the thing and i feel like the rest of the tanks attributes justify it.
lilac ginkgo
It's upper plates pretty thick and you can get the random bounce in it
autumn zodiac
Random bounces doesn't mean it's good
You are 100% a troll. 263 needs a buff and you don't advocate for it.
austere citrus
tank is already good, i dont think it should get a buff, its good as it is.
unique scaffold
ummm it got nerfed and its pretty shit after the nerf i havent played it more then maybe 50 games
austere citrus
if u buff it its going to become the obj 268 4 from world of tanks pc, more broke than a smasher
fiery dagger
That "super weak" plate has as strong effective armour as an E100's turret.
Sure, gold and TD's gonna penetrate it, just as they would anything else. And first of all, the obj should be run with meds.
Although, the tank really could use some maintenance, even if it's still pretty fun to run.
azure otter
Making the cupola thicker is just asking for trouble when needing to shoot gold to pen it which minimizes dpm. Although the tank could use some buff
crisp elm
I just the tank to be a bit more flexible
unique scaffold
if u buff it its going to become the obj 268 4 from world of tanks pc, more broke than a smasher
@austere citrus LMAO have u ever played the v4?
austere citrus
before nerf yea
violet elk
@fiery dagger there are a couple differences tho. the 263 has 4 degrees of gun depression while the e100 has 7, making the effective armor value ~300mm. the e100 also has MAGNITUDES better armor than the 263. 250/150/150 on the turret, 200/120/150 on the hull, not counting both 60mm sideskirts and the 40mm tracks, making the sides pretty much invulnerable to heat rounds.
e: not to mention the fact that the e100 has a turret
@nimble zodiac fair enough. i remembered what @austere citrus said about the thing becoming a 268v4 in blitz and i dont want that to happen. i wouldnt be amiss to see the gunshield become actual spaced armor with some mms of armor behind it.
(what it does need tho is a legendary skin)
nimble zodiac
We don’t want 263 to be another Jageroo, it’s supposed to be a nimble DPM monster
... unless?
unique scaffold
@fiery dagger there are a couple differences tho. the 263 has 4 degrees of gun depression while the e100 has 7, making the effective armor value ~300mm. the e100 also has MAGNITUDES better armor than the 263. 250/150/150 on the turret, 200/120/150 on the hull, not counting both 60mm sideskirts and the 40mm tracks, making the sides pretty much invulnerable to heat rounds.
e: not to mention the fact that the e100 has a turret
@nimble zodiac fair enough. i remembered what @austere citrus said about the thing becoming a 268v4 in blitz and i dont want that to happen. i wouldnt be amiss to see the gunshield become actual spaced armor with some mms of armor behind it.
(what it does need tho is a legendary skin)
@violet elk the e100 sides add up to roughly 420mm (WG video on how to block dmg) 🤡
violet elk
@unique scaffold not to seem rude, but i dont understand where you get that number.
remote oriole
@unique scaffold Your video? You just threw a number into the room with no context. The effective armour thickness is also different depending on whether you shoot AP, APCR or HEAT
nimble zodiac
This was calculated at a fair sidescraping position in the video they are likely referring to
north nimbus
make the t28 less trash and remodel it to actually look like the T28. Do keep it bad though, just make it less trash Lmao
serene spire
nerf
austere citrus
the only thing that the 263 should get is an upper glacis buff, and the gun mantlet and that 'gun porch' buff. Maybe also a few degrees of gun depression so it could rekt u if it covers its lower glacis, but then it might be borderline OP bec no frontal weakspots besides lower glacis
nimble zodiac
It's physically limited to 4 degrees of gun depression, and the upper glacis is basically impenetrable, and the way it hides its lower glacis is in a hug, or a really convenient position
austere citrus
we want a new line of super heavy germans starting from tier 7
empty glacier
Buff fv301. It’s reload is too long
nimble zodiac
Same reload as Action X, idk what you want from it
unique scaffold
Yea i think we should buff the RHM armor and aim time as well
mental pasture
ISU-152 should get a pen buff, the actual pen isn't enough
austere citrus
i mean he isnt wrong, 286mm pen is great, but for Obj 252u its nothing
karmic steeple
I swear man this channel is just trolls talking to each other seeing who can say the stupidest crap
austere citrus
or its just u that cant understand stuff because your brain is crap 🤷♂️ its like 51% pretty sure
crisp elm
says the guy that wont release is IGN cuz hes afraid of being flamed for his 40% wr
ionic ivy
very smoothbrain indeed
austere citrus
Also, buff dispersion and aim time on WZ 113G FT, buff armor on patton(turret) and gun handling, stronger turret on the fv4202 with a tiny bit more DPM and more HESH pen, buff armor profile on vk 72.01k just by a tiny bit like 5% and give E4 a stronger turret, just trying to give these tanks a bit more love
crisp elm
dang. did you just stick some more IQ into your head and come up with some actually decent ideas?
ionic ivy
He downloaded IQ from the internet
azure otter
I think you need a buff not the tanks, they're all great except 4202 primarily from powercreep
austere citrus
great, but there are better tanks, sure m48 patton is great if ur a 60% player, but compared to lets say, t62A, its outclassed in almost every scenario
regal grove
you don't need to buff every single tank that's average or below average ffs
austere citrus
so ur saying buff no tank right now? because below average can mean trash and complete garbage because its 'below' 'average' like if average winrate is 47%, 12% is 'below average', im just trying to change the meta bro, u want is4 spam forever?
nimble zodiac
They never said do nothing, they just said mediocre tanks don’t always need a buff
crisp elm
if you keep buffing tanks, powercreep is gonna set in and they will eventually have to keep buffing other tanks.
austere citrus
or u just make them all equally good? instead of major buffs, just do minor buffs? never said give fv4202 like 500 DPM more or patton way more DPM, im just trying to pass minor buffs that can make them match the other variations. Even with a buff, other tanks are still likely to be used more, for FV4202, a turret buff is enough, Patton, turret buff a small handling buff, for WZ 113G FT, some more gun handling, the russian gun handling is better, faster, more traverse, more pen, and armor is almost as good, it wont make a major difference, and for Vk 72.01K, MAUS already beats that tank 5 times over so lets give it some love, can we also get that 165mm armor buff for tiger 131/kuro because they are the tier 6 tigers but with less armor and stuff
crisp elm
what exact changes do you want
austere citrus
M48 Patton: Strong Completely Red Turret but Cheeks are still pennable with HEAT/APCR so effective side cheeks are around 300mm(current is around 150-250mm), WZ 113G FT: 1.83 Aim in time and 0.288 dispersion with velocity buff to 960 from 760, FV4202: Turret buffed to 300mm on the cheeks, and the 'turret ring'(the flat funnel) buffed to 300mm as well. Roof can be kept as well as cupola. For VK 72.01K, dispersion buff from 0.362 to 0.342, buffing those 'bubbles'(round parts of the turret mount) to 300mm(from 220-260mm), pennable by HEAT/APCR but not AP/HE unless tank destroyers such as Obj. 268 as well as cupola buff to 225mm from 85mm
jagged crescent
not gonna bother to read any of that
karmic portal
I think the rhm borsig needs an armor buff. I get that it’s supposed to be weak cause it’s a td but it should be able to at least bounce some shots. Make the front plate a bit thicker so it has a chance of auto bouncing 105mm shells and smaller.
winged barn
Rather than buffing literally everything, (which results in massive powercreep), nerf the overpreforming tanks.
azure otter
The rhm already has insane camo to cover up for it's lack of armor
austere citrus
@winged barn no, buff the 4 underperforming tier 10 tanks, powercreep is meant for powering creeping premiums like the t22, nerfing more tanks would just amke them more vulnerable to t22s. Remember the Mod 1? was once considered OP until it was power crept, now we do the same with T22
plush perch
t22 turret should be nerfed
azure otter
That's alot of buffing just to make ONE single tank obsolete just because it's overpowering, why not actually nerfing the T-22 instead of buffing like a dozen tech trees
austere citrus
Because it's a collectable and Wargaming won't do that? If they did, then a lot of people will probably stop buying premiums/collectables?
azure otter
No point in replying anymore since you're just gonna deny,deny and deny and never agree on anybody else that thinks about your opinion
ionic ivy
They already nerfed the t22 like a week or so after it came out. It legit was the best med in the game
plush perch
turret is still strong
mental pasture
Did they nerf the side armor? Because of the angle it had more armor than even heavies
A sidescraping T22 was a threat for even Ho-Ri or Jagdpanzer E100
jagged crescent
unless they can aim
minor minnow
If they’re sidescraping in the “perfect position” then there’s not a place to aim, the track wheel has the V shaped Hull behind it and the sides have spaced armor
nimble zodiac
This is as far perfect as it gets
tribal lodge
Did they nerf the side armor? Because of the angle it had more armor than even heavies
A sidescraping T22 was a threat for even Ho-Ri or Jagdpanzer E100
@mental pasture jageroo can splash any tank using explosive round...it can deal around 300-500 damage...even on maus
mental pasture
We're talking about 300-500 every 15 secs and 310 every 5.3 secs
This DPM trade is the threat for jageroo
turbid smelt
jg pz e100 can penetrate cheeks of t22 in that position
coarse harness
If he is stupid enough to stand still lol
nocturne mauve
T-22 was never nerfed
indigo knot
T22 was reworked if I remember
Tho when T22 first came in the game the side auto bounce angles were too good on it....not anymore tho
Feels like it has been shadow nerfed
final warren
@austere citrus the fv4202 doesn’t need armour buff, it is fine where it is. It has a niche role and does it fine.
The vk72 you have the right idea but wrong execution. The gun isn’t the problem and the bubbles are not the problem, nor the cupola (somewhat). The problem is the weak lower frontal plate. The vk is supposed to poke its nose out without showing its bubbles, what I call “front scraping”. In the ideal world, the only weakness it would have would have in this position (the position it was made for) are the cupola and the thin flat line on its front and the cheeks. However right now 50% of the tier ten tanks can switch to prammo and pen the lower frontal plate, effectively making it useless in the one position it is supposed to excel at. So really all we need to do is buff the lower frontal plate to be unpennable by anything under 370mm of pen. It would be balanced then, since it has many other weak spots and can only fulfill that one niche “front scraping” position.
drowsy plaza
T-22 Med was made wider/higher so the V shape on the hull has a larger area above it to pen. All that did it cut down on its ability to totally abuse folks who didn’t understand it’s armor.
final warren
It’s still OP. I have to aim more at this tank than I do at most of the heavies.
indigo knot
I don't think T22 is OP...
It is good tank but OP ...no
sweet prism
I will agree t22 is balanced when WG sells it for gold or cash
remote oriole
Selling it for gold or cash does not make a tank balanced in any way
regal grove
the only thing t-22 makes u do is forces you to aim
i mean sure its annoying but how is that op
winged barn
Same thing that heavies do. But add speed.
I personally dislike the t22. Sure, it bounces, but you can never actually rely on it bouncing. And the gun also feels very wimpy
plush perch
t22 is not balanced , i cant pen its turret with jageroo heat , there is no weak spots at all wth
distant river
In the hands of an average player the T22 inflates their skill significantly. The troll armour is there to make up for significant amounts of mistakes and it does it well.
The issue is that good players really need something reliable that they can take advantage of. The armour and the gun are definitely not reliable. Sometimes you rush a tank and take no damage back, sometimes every shot pens. For a good player, you want to know exactly what will happen and plan around it so options like the T62 and 140 are actually better. Because they are so much more reliable.
pastel cairn
^^ you do make a good point
distant river
Its still a very good tank in the hands of a good player but it isn't really anything special, where it really shines is in the hands of an average player. Its brilliant fun to laugh at people bouncing "easy" shots on you but everywhere else it's just lacking in useful or fun things
unique scaffold
The t22 wasn’t nerfed hard it’s just it’s armor profile was written like shit the sides are suppose to be an auto bounce for the most part unless it’s being shot from a 65-90 degree angle
karmic steeple
Ye I got it recently and definitely have noticed you can’t rely on the armor at all like so ppl like to make it out to seem like. It seems pretty average Bc there’s not any feature that exploitable
distant river
Its sort of in the middle of my stats for tier 10 meds so it's performs fairly good but not great. Whenever I play it I always feel like there's so much more potential that is let down by the luck of the reds that is just unavoidable. I would happily trade all front armour for side armour and vice versa but as it stands it's made to elevate the average player instead of having a very high skill ceiling.
nocturne mauve
Too many T-22 medium owners are overconfident and rush expecting to bounce lots of hits, it has something that’s exceptional, you can reverse sidescrape very well
remote oriole
It does have very good side armour, just use it and don’t drive into people’s faces
final warren
T22 is OP in the same way the obj 140 ruled the meta back in the day. It’s a newbie stomper. It is way stronger than needs be is what I’m trying to say.
And those that say “it’s not too strong, just aim” I say this: why should I spend more time aiming at a t22 than a e100?
distant river
Reverse sidescraping is extremely situational even if you look for places everywhere, and it can still be penned as well. The side armour isn't enough to rely on just like the 140s front.
It gives bad and average players a way to abuse other bad and average players. For a good player it's only as effective as other russian meds, but that definitely doesn't mean it's balanced.
final warren
Nah it’s definitely more effective than the other Russian meds lol. It’s the best of both worlds, 62a’s turret (very slightly worse, negligible), and better hull than 140. And good mobility. And a good gun.
It’s the 140 of the old days, but better. It needs either it’s front nerfed hard or its side nerfed hard.
I mean just give me some reasons why it isn’t too strong.
distant river
Compared to the other russian meds it isn't fast and it doesn't have a good gun at all. I would much rather play my T62 because it can go hulldown significantly better and the gun is so much nicer. I would rather play my 140 because I have almost 50% faster acceleration to actually use my top speed and a much more reliable gun again. If I want results I'll play the T62, if I want fun I'll play the 140. The T22 doesn't really compete with either.
For a bad or average player, it's definitely more effective because it makes up for many more mistakes and the lack of anything to abuse doesn't matter because the average player doesn't abuse anything. For better players the advantages it provides are held back my the disadvantages so it's only as good as the rest.
austere citrus
@final warren whatever u say bro, because in my WZ 113, FV 4202 don't even stand a chance
fiery dagger
Actually, the Fv's front is pretty decent against 245mm of apcr, so the T22 has to aim more carefully, especially since the auto aim targets hull center, thus reducing his attention paid to his movements and angling.
karmic steeple
T22 front isn’t op at all wtg.
plush perch
@fiery dagger turret is paper wat
final warren
@fiery dagger if a fv42002 is fighting you wz up close than the fav isn’t playing the tank right
Ok so now your comparing one op or stupid strong tank to another stupid strong tank. The 22s gun is gr8 wdym. 3,500 dpm. Nothing wrong with anything about the gun. And it is faster than 62a, and on par with 140 so idk where that came from. And you can hulldown in t22 perfectly fine, better than fine actually. The T62A is not significantly better at hulldown. Only major thing the 62 has over the 22 are the gun handling (which is stupid strong for a Russian med) and the extra degree of gun depression.
Let’s break it down by comparing the t62a (which got tons of unneeded buffs) and the t22.
The gun: t62a has 80 more dpm, 5 more penetration. Not much of a win.
Gun handling: t62a gets major win with its leo1 gun handling. But since t22 is a brawler, it’s not that important.
Mobility: tie, t22 is faster but 62 has better hp ratio. @remote oriole never mind you were right my bad.
Turret armour: t62a wins, but t22s weak spots are extremely easily cover by moving back and forth.
Hull armour: t22 wins by a mile.
So in conclusion every point you people have made about the 22 not being too strong is wrong. It has a good gun, good mobility, good armour. It has no weakness, and “just aim” isn’t an excuse. People say “just aim” when they are talking about a maus, e100, is4. The t22 is the 140 of the old days (the one wg tried so hard to get rid of) but better.
Taken from blitzstars
And the armour is OP in the sense it makes you aim, thus reducing your dpm even more
nocturne mauve
T-22 medium’s hatches aren’t real, it’s cosmetic
It only has less shell velocity and less acceleration
But it doesn’t inherit the poor ammo capacity of the other 2 soviet meds because T-22’s can carry so much ammo
remote oriole
The T-22 Medium is not faster though. It has higher top speed than the T-62A, but the acceleration (power to weight ratio) is very very much in favour of the T-62A
@final warren No, the terrain resistance is way way way way way better for the T-62A
nimble zodiac
Aim before you reload completely, ez
No matter how much pen you have, auto-ricochets are auto-ricochets
austere citrus
WZ 113 has 369mm of HEAT PEN and 268mm APCR pen. Also I just clapped a FV 4202, auto ricochet because it's pen is so bad.
jagged crescent
I wonder why, it’s not as if it was already explained
final warren
So you want me to treat the t22 like a maus or other super heavy? And aim before you reload is a terrible strategy. It means I’m sitting in the open, while the 22 is wiggling making me reaim.
And egirl, the fv4202 doesn’t need a turret buff because it’s a support tank and shouldn’t be brawling. It actually shouldn’t even be spotted really
nimble zodiac
Well it’s better than being reloaded and still reaiming because of wiggling, for use against other tanks too
ionic ivy
It also has HESH, which is the main reason why you play the british meds
austere citrus
I mean I shouldnt care anyway because I main WZ 113, so um, 105mm hesh, 440mm damage hesh which is quite low in terms of damage. Um, turret is weak, but i shouldnt care because i dont even use it
final warren
105mm cheap HE (not good hesh). The good HESH gives above 200mm. And 440 dmg is amazing considering the reload, gives it above 4K dpm I think
unique scaffold
Hey Can You Guys Bring Up State Tournament Like Where We Get To See Which Clan Is Which States Champion And Than the best of best clan from each state gets to play for championship of USA
austere citrus
i have like 3.3k-3.5k dpm around that, forgot total numbers with 268 pen, and like 2.5-3k dpm with 369mm pen, the heat is strong specially since its 370 instead of like an IS 4 at 360 or 340, also buff WZ 113 credit coefficient, that thing doesnt make credits, if ur lucky maybe 40k, usually -20k-20k
jagged crescent
You don't care, yet you still talk
distant river
@final warren T22s gum is not great by any stretch of imagination. You get out-reloaded by the other two meds so peeking them isn't really viable and they are the most common meds you will find, the shell velocity and worse handling take it down to be even worse and then it's got the awful pen as well. The T62s pen is bearable because of the beautiful handling, the 140 has AP instead of APCR but the T22 is left needing gold for the E100s lower plate when head on. The T62s extra degree of gun depression make it more useful, as well as not having to sit still to hit any shots. And the T62 is "stupid strong" at all since the heavy buffs it's just a competitive tank. The T22 is sluggish and unreliable compared to both the 140 and T62 for a good player. I don't know if you have completely and utterly missed what I tried to say so I'll say it again. The T22 is too good. But that comes from it being too good for the average player. For good players it isnt anything special.
Its hard to understand how annoying it is to play the T22 until you try it, and you haven't played it. I thought exactly the same way until I got it but the speed and the gun really do let it down.
regal grove
there are some very niche spots in the comp playlist that make T-22 the best option, such as fast capping A in normandy that will make it bleed the least
but if it is better than the soviet meds it is not better by a significant margin
like if I did play it I might play it slightly better than my 62 and 140 but not by so much to where it deserves a big nerf
austere citrus
also the E3 a bit too strong rn and even the stats show. Can we nerf the pen/gun handling on that tank? If you don't believe me, #devs-answers. Also, NERF THE VICKERS CR!!!!
jagged crescent
maybe its cuz of the consumables, smoothbrain
final warren
@distant river
1: The gun fires .1 seconds slower than the other meds, so that point is irrelevant. 2: Shell velocity is irrelevant 99% of the time. Just lead more.
3: there is nothing wrong with the t22s gun handling. It isn’t great like the other Russians, but it definitely isn’t bad. Average at worst. Above average at best.
4: The pen is fine. Ofc you need gold for an e100 plate, just like most other meds.
5: I agree with you on the depression.
6: I wouldn’t call it sluggish and unreliable, it has average mobility, and a high top speed.
7: against top players it isn’t as good as it is against avg players, yes. But that just makes it like pre nerf 183.
8: The 62a should not be a benchmark. 62a didn’t need the Leo 1 gun handling, nor the extra degree of depression.
9: The 140 is completely blown out of the water by the 62a and 22. Only thing is has is it’s better mobility and slightly better hull.
ABC: your results on the tank do not matter lmao. You are too good, so every tank you play will be good. It does not need a nerf for the top tier players, it needs a nerf for the avg and below avg players.
I will stand on my point: The T22 is the 140 of the old days, but better.
distant river
- That is not irrelevant when you cannot trade the other russian meds
2/3. The shell velocity makes anything at long range unreliable. The bloom and aim time make this even worse. It isn't bad compared to all others, but compared to its direct competitors it's lacking heavily. - 140 and T62 can go through it when head on fine, the pen makes fighting any heavy worse.
- It has effective power to weight of about 2/3 of mediums and barely more than heaviums, it's severely lacking against its competitors and you simply don't reach the top speed unless you are going all the way across a map or down a hill.
- The T62 should be the benchmark for all meds. Its a competitive tank in a heavy meta and since the heavy buffs look like they are here to stay, meds need to step up.
austere citrus
i think only OP thing on the T22 is the side armor, i think everything else is actually quite below average, but that side armor is too OP
final warren
1: you can trade with them. You have better armour making them aim, and the same reload. A tenth of a second doesn’t mean you can’t trade.
2/3: why you using t22 at long distance?
4: Heavies are supposed to have armour, use gold or let ur TDs shoot it.
6: do you consider the e50m slow? Why does a medium have to have light tank mobility to be considered good mobility?
8: no it shouldn’t be the benchmark. It is power creeping other mediums. The t62a could be nerfed and still be effective. Idk about you but I have no problem dealing with heavies after the buff, it’s just more HP to farm.
distant river
- You can trade you just have a disadvantage, they can easily expose earlier and pre-aim if they understand that you have a worse reload
2/3. You don't get a choice of how to use the tank all the time. The T62 and 140 (moreso the T62) are effective at any range but the T22 is stuck being forced to look for close range fights with it's sluggish mobility as well. - And the T22 can't deal with that as well as the other tanks can at all.
- Yes the E50M is sluggish to accelerate, and it even has a higher top speed too as well as the extra weight. The T62 and 140 don't have light tank mobility but far outclass the T22.
- You don't set the benchmark on one class you set it across the whole tier. Meds are underperforming, the T62 is one of the few that holds its own so should be the benchmark. More hp to farm is more hp to have to deal with and more hp for the reds to slaughter the greens with, it makes a difference whether you can deal with it personally or not because you aren't the whole team.
austere citrus
Can we give Ru 251 a 10mm+ pen buff... just 10mm for each, AP+10, HEAT+10, HE+10
jagged crescent
no no and no
remote oriole
@distant river 0.1 seconds are never enough to shoot and get in cover. Once they are exposed you can aim just as well. Also, 1000 m/s is more than enough to be effective at medium range and sufficient to hit campers. The mobility is by no means slugglish and better than mobile heavy (heavium) mobility. The HEAT pen is the same as the T-62A and better than that of the Obj. 140 so... they are just as good? The Object 140 is pretty close to light tank mobility, and the T-62A isn’t too far off either.
formal vale
With all the shadow nerfs WG gave the T-22, I've definitely been able to pen it more often. It also helps that the armor profile has become more common knowledge now, which means we know where to shoot.
I've never played the T-22, but I certainly don't care to do so either. It looks rather boring to play since it, in theory, has everything. At least the T-62A has a mediocre hull and mediocre mobility. The Obj 140 has a mediocre turret, OK gun handling, and barely enough gun depression. These tanks present a challenge to play, which is more enjoyable than having great mobility, great armor, and a great gun.
I do think the T-22 is overcooked, but as of now it's much less OP than when it came out. It just seems kinda boring to play yet it can still outperform a lot of tanks. It has a 59% win rate compared to the 54% and 55% on the T-62A and 140 respectively. (I think that can also come down to players not immediately getting 100% crew on their standard tanks.)
distant river
0.1 seconds is enough for an advantage in a brawl and an advantage in trades. 1000m/s is bearable but a long way from its competitors, and 20hp/t is definitely sluggish. The AP/APCR pen is where the difference is because at 240/245/240AP a lot of things change from grey to red. Unless you are talking about the Vickers (which is more of a med anyway) the 140 and T62 aren't lights, the lack both the top speed and acceleration to be fast spotters, but they are still significantly faster than the T22
jagged crescent
you overestimate the difference than 1/10th of a second can make
remote oriole
You overstate small differences. 0.1 seconds is non-existent in any realistic situation, just reversing a bit behind cover will cost the enemy an additional half second to get line of sight on you unless it approaches at top speed.
With shell velocity you get velocities where the difference simply doesn’t matter anymore at certain distances. When you are face hugging, it doesn’t matter if you shoot with 1m/s or 10000m/s because the shot will hit anyways. And 1000m/s is more than enough to fight with no disadvantage at medium distance, and only at long distances when shooting at moving targets you will feel a difference between 1000m/s and 1500m/s, so that point is irrelevant in most situations.
5mm are almost nothing and the situations where that matters are few and far between.
I was talking about all lights, but the Vickers is the slowest of them so naturally it will be a bit closer. The fact remains that the acceleration is not that much different and that it’s only really the top speed that sets them apart, but it’s not enough that anyone could say that the Object 140 and T-62A can’t follow them around.
distant river
The 0.1 second is a small difference, I don't know why people seem to think that I think it's a big difference. It stacks up on every single reload but it is just one more reason that a good player will not choose a T22 over a 140 or T62. 1000m/s isn't at the threshold where the difference isn't noticeable, and at medium range you do definitely have to aim more and plan ahead, which doesn't just mess up shots but it takes even more time with the T22s gum handling. At medium range shooting on a stationary target isnt common, and long range fights are also fairly common with the meta we have. 5mm is sure as hell something especially around those numbers where it means the difference on so many different weakspots. The T62 and 140 can't keep up with lights for more than a second or two, and the T22 can't keep up with the other Russian meds for more than a couple of seconds either. Its easily several tank lengths difference by the time you reach initial spots let alone small rotations where acceleration is key.
If you look at the stats from the perspective of an average player then you see that the T22 isn't lacking too much and has armour that makes up for you mistakes, but when you look at it from the perspective of a good player you see armour that is unreliable and so mainly useless and then a long long list of things that you can't abuse compared to the other tanks. It's op for average and bad players, but only good for good players
jagged crescent
ah yes, 100 milliseconds is obviously something I can fully take advantage of
distant river
Its something I take advantage of every time it's possible, I tend to have better first shot reflexes and aim slightly earlier so I normally get the first shot in by a few tenths of a second, and from there my advantage just builds if I'm playing a Russian med. First shot will be a trade, maybe if I was late second shot will be a trade too but then after that I just have enough time to get behind cover angled enough to bounce so I'm up constantly. The best thing is that it's so tight the red normally gets baited into shooting just as I get into cover so I get an extra free shot as well.
See it sounds long when you use the atomic definition 👀 ⬇️
nimble zodiac
Ah yes, 919,263,177,000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom" (at a temperature of 0 K).
lol
remote oriole
People think that because you defend it as a noteworthy disadvantage of the T-22 Medium. Or to put it differently, if those are the disadvantages then I’m happy to take them because it’s very easy ti compensate 0.1s on the reload.
1000m/s is standard medium velocity at tier eight, and I don’t know anyone who has issues hitting with those, so your claim that it messes up shots is far fetched, to put it nicely. And I was not saying that shooting moving targets at medium range is a problem, no, it absolutely isn’t. And long range to me is literally across half the map (sniping).
5 mm are less than you get through the extra normalisation the AP shell of the Object 140 has, and generally not necessary for weakspots since they are... well... weak. There are a few situations when you shoot at trollish armour where it helps, but in the end that’s more RNG than anything else and if you want a safe pen you should really shoot HEAT instead.
The Object 140 and to a lesser degree the T-62A are capable of playing with and against lights, with the top speed only really mattering when repositioning or running away
I know this baiting playstyle which many good players like to use when playing against a tank with longer reload, however you can nullify it by saying No. Your opponent is legally bound to not harass you when you don’t consent not accepting it and always stay in cover and hide from them until you are both reloaded. By having to drive around the cover they lose their reload advantage and you can trade 1 for 1 every single time.
distant river
Its one reason to not play the tank over a different one because it's exploitable by the reds. If the T22 hides behind cover, then you can wait out looking at where he will expose taking control of the position. You have the better reload so you can do this at any point you want to, and you can get into cover as fast as he can get out. He either has to take an extra hit, or go somewhere else which gives the 140/T62 a significant advantage.
At tier 10 you need to have your aim spot on especially with 310 alpha in a heavy meta, and the handling and velocity are more than capable of ruining that. Its possible to work around it, but it's also something extra that the T62 can easily abuse that the T22 doesn't have a hope of doing.
I don't quite know what you are talking about with the pen because the 140 has AP and the T62 has 5mm more pen so the T22 loses no matter what, and it does make a significant difference when coming against heavies in all positions. Not only can you not aim for the weakspots as well, you can't pen them as well either. It makes peeking significantly harder than on both tanks. Shooting HEAT is another hit to your dpm and now you don't have that to your advantage either.
They 140 and T62 can play with lights but that's because in random games you rarely see a light being used as a light, and the T22 is still left behind by them.
nocturne mauve
Imagine not using calibrated shells on soviet meds
jagged crescent
dpm
nimble zodiac
I don't 😳
Yeah technically the 140 is better at penetrating with standard shells
remote oriole
@distant river You say “significantly”. I doubt that there is an actually statistically significant difference. And I was using the AP of the Object 140 to show how unimportant the 5mm are since even the AP normalisation surpasses that and thus would be a better argument
About the 1 vs 1. Yes, you can pre-aim. But so can your enemy. You will just both sit there pre-aiming. Who says that the T-22 medium has to make the first move?
nimble zodiac
Well you can move out, stop, and aim as they can move out... no? Unless you mean a situation where they're just aiming when you're gonna pop out to
nocturne mauve
No point having so much DPM if you’re gonna pen less of your shots
jagged crescent
The difference in Pen is barely going to help in a frontal confrontation. You're better off acting as an actual med and mowing down the tanks by their flanks
clever mountain
The Stormer Emil and Nashgod need to be nerfed ASAP.
Wayyyy too stronk.
Nigh-invnerable tanks that can take anything 1 vs 1.
Using HE is USELESS against them.
Stupidly good gun depression and aim. Can turn on a dime and obliterate ANYTHING that tries to sneak up on them.
Also they go way too fast. Need speed knocked off by about 10kmh (they just zip up hills)
Also need to be nerfed double-time in Uprising since they're relaible anti-spawn campers and can kill anyone spawn camping, not like other TDs who spawn into a pack of lights and die while trying to run away.
Overall, both tanks must be very strongly nerfed as their huge camo values, slim profile abd strong armor mean they can bounce anything and are perfect predators.
Wargaming fix these tonks or risk a broken game once more players figure this out.
remote oriole
What did I miss?
final warren
@remote oriole thank you for trying to explain that .1 seconds and 1000m/s velocity is irrelevant.
@distant river I will take the liberty to say that no one in the game will consider the .1 seconds when fighting a t22. It is irrelevant and you are the only person in the game saying it’s a disadvantage, so stop saying it is a disadvantage. I will also take the liberty in saying that no one loses dpm over having to compensate for the velocity. It’s muscle memory, people do it automatically and quickly. So stop saying that is a disadvantage. I will also take the liberty in saying that 5mm of pen will not help much. Normalization means even a t62a will have trouble penning if a 22 has trouble penning. Just use HEAT. So stop using pen as a disadvantage. I agree it isn’t completely OP but i think it needs a nerf, as well as 62a (maybe just gun depression or gun handling).
@L.Nimbus#8282 I hope you are trolling lmao. The Emil is a very hard tank to play, has horrible armour and worse mobility lol
clever mountain
@final warren
You thunk?
Well no bleeping duh.
distant river
@remote oriole It entirely depends on what level you are looking at. From a skilled players perspective the differences are significant, but from bad players they are worthless because they can't tell the difference between AP and APCR. And with the pre-aiming situation the T22 can do the same, but they are always on the back foot because of the slight difference in reload.
@final warren I am in game and I consider it. If I'm alone in that then it explains why people cry about it being so completely and utterly gamebreakingly op now. No matter what, the less dpm is still a disadvantage. Not hitting your shot loses you dpm. Shell velocity makes it more likely to miss your shot. It is another disadvantage. 5mm less pen is the difference between many areas, and is another disadvantage. It definitely needs a nerf, but to good players there is no performance gain over other competitive meds.
violet elk
playing my newly aquired 263 and having a blast in it, i cant help but really realize how busted overpowered missile tanks are
like they actually get me boiling
unique scaffold
Devs, can we play blitz with ps4 controllers please
nocturne mauve
That is such a disadvantage
final warren
@distant river just asked my clan they said 5mm isn’t a big difference, and .1 seconds isn’t a big difference.
Stop nit picking the smallest disadvantages and give actual ones
distant river
It isn't a big difference but it's a difference that has an effect, and again the T22 is still slow and with a much worse gun losing out on gun depression as well
The only thing the T22 has is the unreliable armour, it just isn't useful once you start planning everything instead of relying on luck. The reliability of the gun becomes much more important too at that level.
nocturne mauve
And T-62A should have the old 5 degrees, why did they have to buff the depression? It’s not traditional of soviet mediums
final warren
I’m not talking about comp level. I’m talking about pub matches.Wargaming doesn’t balance based on comp. only pub. And in pub, .1 is irrelevant. 1000 vs 1500m/s is irrelevant. 5mm is irrelevant. And you’ve spoiled yourself with good guns, it’s gun is fine.
Just watched replays featuring t22. Yep all your points are irrelevant. Gun handling is fine. Velocity fine. Reload fine. Armour too fine. Mobility fine. Your opinion on this matter, in my opinion, is irrelevant. Goodbye
nimble zodiac
yay, that means on WG's terms, IS-7 is balanced
distant river
I have no clue why you think that I'm trying to say the T22 should be balanced around good players (not around comp idk where you got that from either), I'm saying that to good players the T22 isn't a better choice than other russian meds. 🤦♀️
ionic ivy
To good players, every tank is fine
white yoke
As autoloaders already got a nice dpm buff and bc better accuracy, WG is on a Good way, but still I think there need to be further adjustments. Amx is Great as it is, but t57s 2:5s reload can’t make up for its poor mobility and armor as tank stats show too. What I would wish for here was increasing the thickness and size of the gun mantlet so that u can bounce shots more reliably and maybe even decrease dpm as compensation. Also the BC is still not able to keep up with meds and other lights due to lack of armor and dpm. Increasing the accuracy and mobility was already very helpful to its playstyle, but decreasing the time in between shells would truly make a difference as most mediums have 5-7 s reload, meaning that u can’t reliably put out 2 shots and hide without taking 2 in return in the current state.
nimble zodiac
The "gun mantlet" of T57 Heavy is like 70% of the turret 😂
There's no mantlet, it's turret mounted
ionic ivy
If you think the t57 is a bad tank, you are sorely mistaken. The tank is perfectly fine as is, it's just a you problem
austere citrus
can we ban players that are AFK, like each day if u get 5 warnings ur out, resets daily, first ban, 1 day, then 3 days, then 7 days, then 2 weeks, then 4 weeks, then 12 weeks, then 24 weeks, then 48 weeks, then 96 weeks, and so on, 192 weeks and yea u get what i mean
ionic ivy
that goes against wargaming's policy of "fun"
nimble zodiac
Maybe less incremental, just 1 day, week, month, year, and so on
austere citrus
it sucks when u get AFKs in ratings, sure for regular battles idc if ur AFK, but this is rating
regal grove
just carry them duh
acoustic shard
Buff the kpf gun depression to -8 and increase it's Heat pen to 330 or 340 like it's pears. And give it 720 He damage.
jagged crescent
but y tho
wary linden
Kpf is already good tho
nimble zodiac
Nah, it doesn't deserve better HEAT pen because it has the highest caliber in class
austere citrus
it should get 8 degrees of gun depression. @nimble zodiac in warthunder it has 10 degrees of gun depression with an ATGM
ionic ivy
or maybe you should git gud
karmic portal
Regarding the t62a gun depression, Wikipedia said the t62 had 6 degrees and it has a 115mm gun. The t62a has a smaller gun so it makes sense for it to be raised higher in the turret and have 7 degrees
nimble zodiac
It appears physically incapable of more gun depression @austere citrus
nocturne mauve
T-62A should get converted to T-62 and get that 115mm gun
unique scaffold
@nimble zodiac it did have gun depression around that area
mental pasture
People talking that T-22 isn't op? Well, they never have seen this tank bouncing a Ho-Ri prammo with sidescrape. A medium tank doing what heavies are supposed to do
ionic ivy
just shoot HE at it or disengage and select another target.
karmic steeple
T22 isn’t op. Honourless makes very good points that it’s very noob friendly in that it’s armor is troll but there’s nothing really that a good player can do to make it work better than the t62
austere citrus
noob friendly? that tank only good when u use that side armor, everything else is pretty mediocre.
mental pasture
"Just shot HE"
A Jagdpanzer E100 can do 300-500 in splash damage every 15 secs, while T-22 can penetrate Jagdpanzer without prammo
We are talking about 1600 dmg vs 3505 dmg every minute. Any other medium tank have such strong side and it's comparable even to heavy tanks
jagged crescent
1600 dpm vs 3505 dpm assuming they're both out in the open and are just standing still and not even trying to find cover.
Brilliant comparision, it's not as if the Jageroo's notorious for having sufficient penetration to go through the T-22's cheecks or over angled sides while it only takes 30 degrees of angling to make the whole tank go red against normal T-22 rounds
nimble zodiac
Trade? No?
mental pasture
As like if the T22 wouldn't move too, brilliant answer @jagged crescent
A medium tank that can do Heavy tank job isn't normal, or it's very slow or there's something wrong
You got a real point @drowsy plaza
@jagged crescent I'm not even going to talk about circling because it's natural for a medium be able to circle a jagE100, but it's not natural a med can have 380mm armor in sidescraping
jagged crescent
Oh look, a band of side armor that isn't pre-angled. Maybe I should just aim at that spot. Or do anything that doesn't involve cooperating with a T-22's strengths and instead playing to my own
drowsy plaza
T-22 side armor is really it’s only thing. And there is a penatrable side band
unique scaffold
People talking that T-22 isn't op? Well, they never have seen this tank bouncing a Ho-Ri prammo with sidescrape. A medium tank doing what heavies are supposed to do
@mental pasture 😂 would be a shame to complain about a tank like that just be happy they don’t have the obj 907 in blitz which is a better version of the t22
mental pasture
Basically: hey, don't complain about a medium tank that can have a heavy tank armor, cuz at least we don't have the god of opness
But Yeah, we could be in a worse situation, like WT auf E100 of Obj. 907
jagged crescent
There's alot of tanks on PC that are busted in general.
Unsurprisingly, they're practically all russian
regal grove
T-22 is not a problem on blitz
there's a difference between incredibly annoying and an actual problem that needs to be fixed
unique scaffold
🤔 don’t forget the AE phase 1 and the char 4 cuz those are about all I could think of tanks that aren’t russian @jagged crescent 💀
jagged crescent
There's busted, then there's the entirety of the French Cars @unique scaffold
plush perch
t22 turret armor is stronk
austere citrus
can we get a side armor nerf to the IS 4 to 120mm from 140mm??? It will still be strong but rn its kinda broke(sidearmor is broke) its a front brawler anyways, good gun, shouldnt be able to get like 400mm at a super flat angle. I can literally use HEAT in my WZ 113 which is 369mm, almost the same as the HEAT on a Jagdpanzer E100 and cannot pen it even though the angle is super flat, okay yea ngl, IS4 HP nerf+130mm side armor+maus AP/HEAT/APCR/HE pen
jagged crescent
i was thinking of a gun handling nerf
plush perch
Hp nerf and prammo pen
unique scaffold
#tourneys-discussion press this
regal grove
omg i can't pen this tank pls nerf it
sweet prism
Selling it for gold or cash does not make a tank balanced in any way
@remote oriole Give me a single example of a tank WG has kept artificially rare by selling it in crates which is not broken, after what 2 years of release now?
vale sun
egirl is smoothing out their own brain the way an oyster makes a pearl
jagged crescent
At this rate, it’s just getting polished
unique scaffold
You spammed other unfunny comet related things in the other channels no
unique scaffold
I’m glad that I am grinding the STI, Mauschen, and M103 after seeing the tier 10 heavy tank performance
remote oriole
@sweet prism T25 Pilot
Crates are not only for rarity, but also were (and maybe still are) used to sell special tanks for the first time (all tier tens (most of them are balanced, think of the T95E6, Chieftain Mk. 6 and M60) and mostly op tier eights, but with exceptions. The SU-130PM for example is only strong).
final warren
If the 22 was as easily accessible like the old 183, I’m sure more people would want a nerf
amber pivot
I want grave digger to be nerfed, yes a lot of you are gonna say it’s pen is trash in tier 8. But it had 170 pen 5 more less than an Lupus pen and that’s not much. Plus grave digger has an 6 shot auto loader that rips any tank apart evan smasher in open. The autoloader is too much so I think this tank should be reworked. It’s too broken rn in top tier the armour is broken, front of it is hard and the side armour is hard to pen with all ammo on top tier. I really want this thing to get nerfed, for me it’s breaking tier 7/6
plush perch
🤡
sweet prism
@sweet prism T25 Pilot
Crates are not only for rarity, but also were (and maybe still are) used to sell special tanks for the first time (all tier tens (most of them are balanced, think of the T95E6, Chieftain Mk. 6 and M60) and mostly op tier eights, but with exceptions. The SU-130PM for example is only strong).
@remote oriole Are you serious? WG sells almost everything new in crates, only op things stay in crates. Don't you see premium tank sale cycle?
remote oriole
@sweet prism That doesn’t change that WG sells them in crates and keeps them rare that way. Just because they will sell it outside of crates or for cheap in the future doesn’t mean that it isn’t rare right now due to crates. And that perfectly illustrates my point that there are tanks WG has kept rare which are not op.
Aside from that, just because WG keeps op premiums and collectables rare doesn’t mean that it’s a way of balancing them. It only limits the damage they do to the game but it does not balance the tanks
sweet prism
Aside from that, just because WG keeps op premiums and collectables rare doesn’t mean that it’s a way of balancing them. It only limits the damage they do to the game but it does not balance the tanks
@remote oriole exactly my point, wg doesn't sell t22 or smasher directly because they know these are broken, despite they were introduced a while ago. So anybody can argue t22 isn't op, but I will agree only when wg thinks it's balanced enough for direct sale.
ionic ivy
Clownery
distant elm
@everyone Why dont we buff the T95E6 the number of ammo bullet and spot range?So lots of player would like to buy. BTW,i am asia server player
drowsy plaza
@sweet prism Both where available for direct sale. The Smasher originally came as a direct sale. The T-22 Med was available Christmas of 2019 for a someone very expensive Christmas decoration - but it was possible to ‘buy’
violet elk
which one of you rotten rats thought an ATGM was a smart idea
sudden path
@sweet prism chimera came for 50 dollars cash first sale, and it's the highest winrate medium in the game
dusk plume
the tier 10 amx m4 is broken as hell, Maus is very much inferior to that tank. It even have more frontal armor than maus. @orchid grove I don't see any weak spot at the front of the tank. The badger has the the bottom plate where we can pen, vk has the hatch, super conqueoror has the hatch and hull to be able to pen.
orchid grove
Literally any time there's a test tank that isn't paper, everyone thinks it's broken lol
Remember when everyone thought the Super Conqueror was broken?
And the Badger?
And even the VK 90.01P?
distant river
@dusk plume amx has the huge cupolas and a lower plate (I think it's pennable?) And also the angled side sections make angling a very bad idea so it can't get any stronger
dusk plume
@distant river The you still cant pen the huge cuploas and the lower plate with apcr, but the tank will most likely be in a hull down looking directly at you.
distant river
And so will the superconq and badger... and the VK90 will probably be sidescraping.... Oh look they are very red too... 🤦♀️
nocturne mauve
I’m just disappointed it ain’t coming as tech tree
austere citrus
Also I change my mind, before I was saying VK 72.01K should be buffed, I retract that statement because I was facing some today and omg, even with like omegalul pen, its so not easy to face.
jagged crescent
ok smoothbrain
remote oriole
@orchid grove The Super Conqueror was nerfed, the Badger was nerfed as well and nobody thought that the VK 90 is op
Oh, and the WZ-111 5A was nerfed as well. And the VK 90 is one of the strongest German superheavies out there. Well, it has the classic superheavy drawbacks, but for a superheavy it’s doing very good
austere citrus
VK 90 traverse OP
autumn zodiac
VK 90 is pretty meh, it's gun has great AP Penetration, but that's it's only particularly good trait aside from being able to sidescrape. The accuracy consumable is pretty much useless since it already has good accuracy
plush perch
@autumn zodiac wdym it has nice turret
turbid smelt
there is turrent ring weakspot, when vk 90 is sidescraping :D
golden nymph
Does anybody know why my ticket for vehicle recovery is taking so long?
vale sun
The current armour for the AMX on blitzhangar is definitely broken, it has no actual turretbweakspot when using gun depression thanks to the angling on the cupola and it has decent side armour and a potent upper plate. I have faith it will be nerfed though
austere citrus
so happy i have this tank in my garage
fiery dagger
Players can aim, you know.
austere citrus
this is tier 3-4 if u know
ionic ivy
High caliber HE exists at that tier you know
remote oriole
No, it does not
ionic kraken
Japanese Heavies should be added to the game. Cuz, they'd be rather balanced. Their armor wouldn't be special, cuz the armor is highlighted and also gold ammo is a thing. Plus, they're slow, so meds and all the lights wouldn't struggle in circling them. The only good thing about it would be the derp cannon, having 2 HEs, one with 1.1k damage but like 80mm of pen, while other is 900 damage, but 200mm of pen.
Size restrictions? Bruh, it's roughly around the same size as a Maus, so that's not a problem. Lag has always been a bane of all games, there's no getting rid of it for good. Overall logic? What's that? It wouldn't change the game a lot, it's just another big fat hoovy on the field, but it's made by weebs instead of schnitzel bois.
vale sun
ew
turbid smelt
@golden nymph well there is virus hindering performance
golden nymph
Yeah it taste good
unique scaffold
@ionic kraken Theres a thing called size restrictions and lag and overall logic
jagged crescent
lag and overall logic aren't even related to the tank
besides, they're basically maus sized so it shouldnt be a problem
full token
Aren’t the lower tier tanks too big though?
orchid grove
@ionic kraken It’s not a matter of balance, it’s that the devs have technical issues with making collision models the size of Japanese heavies
ionic kraken
Are they really that huge? I thought the Maus was bigger than the Type 5... But then again, Maus is more box shaped, while Type has multiple corners around.
jagged crescent
Type 5 has more volume
unique scaffold
Type 5 is literally taller than maus WG even did a comparison of the two in one of their videos
nocturne mauve
Has anyone been noticing much more track absorptions or what
final warren
@ionic kraken I would rather have Japanese lights and another line of Japanese glass cannon/light tank like TDs.
Why light tanks? Because light tanks are fun and under represented.
Why glass cannon/light tank like TD? Because there is not one tier X TD that fits that role
And for the people saying there are no tanks like that for Japan, yes there are. I have a whole list on my device.
latent snow
Send list pls
vast geode
hi
final warren
Type 16 MCV APC
Type 96 APC APC
Type 82 Komatsu APC
Type 73 APC APC
Type 99 SPH TD
Type 75 SPH TD
Type 74 SPH TD
***Type 89 IFV Light tank
***Type 60 SPRG Light tank
***Type 60 SS3 Light tank
***Type 60 ATGM Light tank
The APC was just an idea of mine. But I made a whole post about it on the NA forums
remote oriole
What will be the role of APCs on the battlefield?
final warren
Practically nothing. I was just bored one day and thought “wow it’d be fun to have some fast moving tanks in the game”. I initially thought they could be spotters, limited to 1 per team but I knew it was a bad idea
Also there are multiple versions of the Type 60. Those could be made into premium tanks and such. Since Japan literally has no premium tanks that are buyable on a regular basis
remote oriole
Wow, why did you have to edit it like that? I was about to turn up with the Ke-Ni Otsu and Chi-Nu Kai (Shinobi) 😦
austere citrus
Dispersion buff on WZ-113
nocturne mauve
You ask for buff on everything
grand maple
How do I report someone
dense walrus
Send in a ticket to player support. Instructions pinned in #general-blitz-discussion @grand maple
ionic ivy
Just waiting for the day egirl slips and reveals that ign
nocturne mauve
tender bison
Just waiting for the day egirl slips and reveals that ign
@ionic ivy damn
austere citrus
Buff chinese coefficients, u lose credits using the tank even if u use like 5 rounds
nimble zodiac
Miss/bounce = credit loss
austere citrus
u can get a 6k game and expected 5k credits with a booster
nimble zodiac
Well if you use provisions, consumables, and prammo, that’s pretty normal for such a game
nocturne mauve
Tech tree isn’t meant to earn credits
austere citrus
idc about earning credits, i just dont want to lose 20k credits a game or make 5k on a good game. I would even sacrifice 300dpm for more credits
final warren
But that’s how every tier ten is.
Can we buff Egirls mouth/fingers until they are so polished they simply cease to exist
austere citrus
u dont understand, u can actually make credits with like every other tank, this tank legit has non existing credits, even youtubers agree. You're calling me unreasonable? funny
final warren
Since when did you play tier ten for credits? This chat is not for unreasonable/irrelevant suggestions.
No one cares if it doesn’t make credits because no one expects to make credits.
jagged crescent
To be fair, it loses credits at a rate that's ridiculously high, even for a Tier X
ionic kraken
@final warren ,,Why glass cannon/light tank like TD? Because there is not one tier X TD that fits that role"
Bro, you forgetting the Grille? That thing has light tank camo, good speed and a massive gun, it fits the bill pretty much. And speaking of Japanese premiums, there is the STA-2, but don't know if it's in the game yet (it is on PC, but not Blitz)
jagged crescent
You just said the Grille has light tank camo
plucky surge
game is pretty balanced since you're put up against tanks of your tier
just buff the japanese tanks a bit because they suck all the way to tier 7
tier 6 is only good if you stack reload speed
austere citrus
chi ri is decent, i mean either more speed/engine power or a stronger turret, tier 8/9 japanese is worst tank in the game, maybe not as bad as a t28 though
plush perch
i would play t28 than STA for sure
plucky surge
the chi ri is tier 7
I think it's a good tank but I haven't matched it up against the other tier 7s
austere citrus
I just faced the new tier 10 French tank in a battle probs a tester, and holy crap, that thing is op, like literally with 369mm heat, the entire front is red. Like the side are pretty weak but the entire front is more op than a maus, imagine a is4+maus hybrid like indominus Rex with the most broke frontal armor, gun depression, speed, and damage. Like imagine a smasher, but like more broke than a smasher at tier 10
hearty steeple
That is why it is in supertest. Its stats will be tweaked till its balanced. It is long way away from release anyways
austere citrus
The armor okay sure, let’s keep it because it will be unique. Nerf the pen, dpm, pramo, traverse, keep the speed, and nerf gun handling but let it keep its amazing armor and gun depression, that should make it not broke
nocturne mauve
Oh please can WG not convert wot pc tech tree tier X to paid again after this, we’ve already missed out tons of times
-badger
-amx 30b
- s conq
-wz 111 5a
And now upcoming AMX m4 54
forest heath
the armor on the predator UM definitely needs a buff as well as a penetration buff
Players have to deal with the atrocious lack of gun depression limiting already where they can go on the map, increasing the frontal armor from 130 to 150mm and increase the thickness of the front vision ports from 75 mm to 95mm and the penetration from 165mm to 173mm base AP also improve dispersion on the gun. I had to deal with missing 2 out of 3 shots missing completely from a stationary target. The fact that it sees tier VIII is criminal
ionic kraken
OK, explain, what is the God damn point of AT armor, WHEN EVERYTHING PENS IT'S FRONT?! LIKE, DAMMIT, IF IT'S A SLOW, EASY TARGET, WHY EVEN DRIVE IT?
Give the AT line (from tier 6 to tier 9) better frontal armor, to make the moving bunkers live up to their names, cuz jesus christ is it annoying to have a supposedly heavily armored tank get turned into Swiss cheese by high pen guns. Make it like the Tiger II, frontally invulnerable, unless you have 300mm of pen or aim for weak points with gold ammo.
coarse harness
The T6-7 has been buffed, the armor on the AT-15 is only good when you use all your gun arc and depression at the same time
The Tortoise is just garbage in the armor department
ionic kraken
Like, seriously, look at this. This is a pov from a different TD. Even the gun mantle, everything. Look how much sponge that is. Not to mention how easy it is for lights to get your rear. AT-15 and Tortoise needs armor, speed and traverse buffs bad.
WZ-111G FT
plush perch
@ionic kraken which tank are u in
remote oriole
Use the gundepression and gun arc, like any armoured td should
wispy oracle
OK, explain, what is the God damn point of AT armor, WHEN EVERYTHING PENS IT'S FRONT?! LIKE, DAMMIT, IF IT'S A SLOW, EASY TARGET, WHY EVEN DRIVE IT?
Give the AT line (from tier 6 to tier 9) better frontal armor, to make the moving bunkers live up to their names, cuz jesus christ is it annoying to have a supposedly heavily armored tank get turned into Swiss cheese by high pen guns. Make it like the Tiger II, frontally invulnerable, unless you have 300mm of pen or aim for weak points with gold ammo.
@ionic kraken it's turret is week
ionic kraken
Tiger II only weak against gold now. Gold an tier IX TDs. AT15 should be the same
remote oriole
But it is against most tier eights. Try to give your tank a chance to bounce by angling and don’t just ask for the tank to bounce everything for you regardless of how you play
uneven fiber
Tiger II only weak against gold now. Gold an tier IX TDs. AT15 should be the same
@ionic kraken almost every tank in tier 8 and 7 can penetrate tiger 2
coarse harness
"and 7"
nice joke
ionic kraken
@uneven fiber You must've been living under a rock, Tiger II now has armor that more than 50% of tier 9s struggle to reliably pen. Only guns with +280mm can pen Tiger II front now. It's not the same damage sponge it used to be
unique scaffold
Just want to say I just got fv 215b 183 and like the RNG sucks so please WG i have been a big fan of this game and worked hard for this tank please fix it P.S Ban AGTM
umbral knot
@uneven fiber You must've been living under a rock, Tiger II now has armor that more than 50% of tier 9s struggle to reliably pen. Only guns with +280mm can pen Tiger II front now. It's not the same damage sponge it used to be
@ionic kraken exactly, but the tiger 2 has good mobiity so i say the mobility, and turret traverse of tiger 2 needs to be nerf
ionic kraken
@umbral knot Yea, for armor that powerful to be combined with such maneuverability, no wonder its the best Tier 8 Heavy.
devout flower
Please buff the T110E4. Its the 2nd worst performing tier 10 td. (183 doesnt really count because its highly sought after by lower skilled players)
frigid monolith
The Tiger isn’t the best tier eight heavy. Tech tree, yes, I agree
uneven fiber
I haven't played for some time I only remember the old tiger 2 which almost every tank can pen 😅 I'm gonna go play now
coarse harness
You can pen it pretty easily with 250+ mm pen AP rounds even if it's perfectly angled but with other ammo types you will struggle
nocturne mauve
It’s op
white yoke
@ionic ivy i play the t57 with 3,5k avg and been over 4k when still on pc, it is surely not me that is the problem. Ever wonder why t57 doesnt make any appearance in pro-tournaments? AMX simply is the much better autoloader with its mobility. Only thing speaking for t57 are the 2.5s reload between shells, but that isnt enough to justify its poor mobility while still having very bad armor. It is enough to do dmg, but if u look at #devs-answers you will see it does not have enough strenghts to turn games.
final warren
@ionic kraken the grille is definitely not a glass cannon light tank. It may have decent straight line speed, but it’s camo is horrible, and it’s traverse is worse. It’s a sniper, from top to bottom.
An example of a light tank-like TD would be the charioteer, t25, e25, etc
ionic kraken
Bruh, the closest to a light TD at tier 10 would be the yolo waggon, but that thing has insane front armor.
vale sun
oh I'd much rather play the STA-1 than the T28 to be honest lol
At least with the STA-1 you can say "I will go here because of [battle situation]" instead of in the T28 where you just say "I am screwed because of [battle situation]"
T28 armour isn't much better than the STA-1 to be quite honest and the 5 degrees of gun depression is kinda gross
latent snow
pls nerf rng
nocturne mauve
Ho Ri T1 is the worst tier 8 I’ve played
ionic ivy
@ionic kraken the grille is definitely not a glass cannon light tank. It may have decent straight line speed, but it’s camo is horrible, and it’s traverse is worse. It’s a sniper, from top to bottom.
An example of a light tank-like TD would be the charioteer, t25, e25, etc
@final warren Have you ever tried assault grille? It's super fun
oh I'd much rather play the STA-1 than the T28 to be honest lol
At least with the STA-1 you can say "I will go here because of [battle situation]" instead of in the T28 where you just say "I am screwed because of [battle situation]"
T28 armour isn't much better than the STA-1 to be quite honest and the 5 degrees of gun depression is kinda gross
@vale sun play the sta for the 2d girl
ionic kraken
@ionic ivy oh ye, the legendary Rin waifu camo lol. That's actually exactly why I keep the tank, for that weeb camo specifically
final warren
@ionic ivy an assault grille still isn’t a light tank TD. Grille lacks turret, small size, and mobility (not speed) to be a light tank TD.
The Japanese Type 75,74, 99 SPG/SPH however could be a light tank TD
nocturne mauve
Boring
ionic ivy
@ionic ivy an assault grille still isn’t a light tank TD. Grille lacks turret, small size, and mobility (not speed) to be a light tank TD.
The Japanese Type 75,74, 99 SPG/SPH however could be a light tank TD
@final warren i was just saying that grille doesn't have to be a sniper every game.
jagged crescent
If it’s forced to play as something besides a sniper, then there’s either something wrong with the team, or you're just playing like a meme
ionic ivy
I sometimes choose to play assault grille, especially on Mayan, where I go inbetween heavy side and encounter cap
coarse harness
The grille can work as a second line support TD if the enemy stupid enough
So yeah, it can work pretty often
muted rampart
@coarse harness but it works waaaaay better as a sniper
drowsy plaza
Success in Grille = not being in a bush the reds shoot.
plush perch
@drowsy plaza ez , i wont be in any bush
coarse harness
Corner camp like a pro
distant river
Unless I'm the only TD then I will play the grille agressively pretty much all the time. One of my favourite spots is on naval frontier where I can rush the heavy side and go straight to the two rocks that are in the middle of that open section. I only do it with support from my heavies and when the reds have lots of heavies too but it essentially guarantees that the greens will have the agressive positions and you can farm amazingly if you watch reloads and where people focus
umbral knot
Why can't I pen a Hori TI II frontaly but he can is that balance?. With an IS 3 with a BL 9 canon
compact nymph
Depends on what tank you are in. If you use a stock comet... @umbral knot
distant river
You gotta go for the small lower plate if you want to pen with standard ammo, prammo will go through the casemate easily though
untold chasm
Ru or indien
stiff edge
ru
opaque rover
When are you going to balance this little guy? The Crusader hits as hard as a tier 3. 😂
ionic ivy
Im sorry what? Crusader is actually really good.
plush perch
bad speed with no armor , idk it is tier 5 so who caresz
meager spruce
I actually enjoyed the crusader
ionic ivy
^crusader op. Can permatrack very easily
latent snow
It should go faster... 40km in a light tank kinda sucks
austere citrus
Tier 10 French Heavy M54 is too OP, even Pantouflee said so. Came across one, too OP, like more broke than a T22 and Smasher
unique scaffold
Does no one understand testing vehicles will always be broken on introduction this happened with su 130 wz 5A S conq amx 30B
hearty steeple
We just needed something new to whine about, smasher op talk got boring.
nocturne mauve
Smasher isn’t invincible, stop complaining about it
pastel cairn
^
twilit crystal
they nerfed the crusader speed, it used to be like 48 its now 42, just buff the speed limit back to 50
unique scaffold
Crusader is one of the gems of tier V
austere citrus
smasher just has OP HEAT pen, nerf heat pen and it will be an above average tank
scarlet fjord
I know your AMX M4 mle. 54 is subject to change
but why give it broken stats to start with
you grabbed an IS-7
gave it the IS-4's armor profile and buffed the armor again
buffed the alpha, buffed the DPM,
buffed the penetration, gave it AP for gold ammo
buffed the accuracy, buffed the gun depression to 8 degrees
nocturne mauve
I’m just frustrated it’s a collector
austere citrus
No, they made it an IS-4, give it 300mm more armor. Lower plate('weakspot') is legit 260mm. Give it a huge derp gun with amazing gun handling and dpm, give it pretty good speed and sell it in crates
latent snow
It wouldnt even be that hard to make it a line, just 3 tanks. lazy wargaming :\
coarse harness
Lazy ≠ greedy
compact nymph
Lazy ≠ greedy
can be both at the same time 🤷♂️
nimble zodiac
Yeah, the weakspot is 235mm against AP shells without angling
Yes, I'm aware, but this tank will have a difficult time sidescraping effectively, the gun depression is a very strong point of the tank, the alpha damage outclassing most, and some barely
austere citrus
have u seen the size of the 'weakspot' the lower plate is legit tiny. Its super strong like OP levels, and 8 degrees of gun depression. Please nerf everything on the tank
coarse harness
The tank is in test for a reason
It's not even out yet but you already started to cry about it
safe rapids
Hope it does get nerfed a bit...and better yet, put it in the Tech Tree with the AMX m4 51 and AMX 65 t. No reason to shun an opportunity for a new branch. Seems WG just doesnt like adding French TT tanks.
remote oriole
@coarse harness Wargaming knows that it’s too strong. Everyone can see that, it’s not exactly a secret that is unveiled by gameplay not like Wargaming doesn’t have a supertest where people actually play. It’s just that the testing is a joke
unique scaffold
I always enjoy reading folks who aren't testers commenting on the testing process.
austere citrus
$$$ for wargaming
gleaming apexBOT
Ironnwarhog [Old_G]#4048 has been warned.
safe rapids
All that aside, looks very cool indeed. My question-why not release a tank that doesnt need to be in the TT. (AMX 13 105, Pz. VII, Foch B). Making a tank that has multiple tanks in it's line a collector is dumb. I would love to see the AMX 13 105 in the game, but not in the TT becos it doesnt need to be. Besides, the French line is so small that it needs more researchable tanks.
nocturne mauve
This better be the last time it happens, so many possible tech trees ruined
glossy estuary
Pro gamer protection bot ACTIVATED
unique scaffold
Try and make a point without throwing out insults. I'm sure it will be much more well received 😉
winged barn
I always enjoy reading folks who aren't testers commenting on the testing process.
@unique scaffold from the many things I have seen introduced, the testing seems to be a joke. Charioteer? How was that even considered to be ok when it was introduced? Or do they just decide to not test some tanks?
nimble zodiac
I mean, they make it OP for a month or two, then they nerf them, so I don't think they go to testing that much, for future tech tree tanks
coarse harness
They only test T10s and some of the premium/collector tanks
austere citrus
i mean ngl, its not hard to balance a tank, just make one aspect super OP and then anotehr aspect trash, i could even do it for wargaming
safe rapids
Yes. In PC the M4 54 has like 60mm of side armor, and for some reason it's like 130 or so in Blitz. That just confuses me. And why couldnt we get both guns for it?
vale sun
i mean ngl, its not hard to balance a tank, just make one aspect super OP and then anotehr aspect trash, i could even do it for wargaming
well I am thanking my lucky stars that you don't do it for wargaming
karmic steeple
^^^
distant river
WG know exactly what they are doing when testing tanks. They aren't idiots they know that 5k dpm with adrenaline is going to be completely broken they just use it to give people a reason to grind the line. That way the tier 10 can stay relatively balanced but people will still go for it from past experience with the line, spending their money and time along the way.
It saves tier 10 balance (mostly) while still lining their pockets 🤷♀️
jagged crescent
my only issue with testing tanks is that everybody throws the game in order to go after the AMX
crisp elm
@austere citrus you actually have to be gud tho. actually game knowledge is needed.
austere citrus
@crisp elm well isnt that any tank?
crisp elm
i wouldnt trust anyones opinion on game balance if they dont have 60% wr with high avg tier
remote oriole
Do you trust my opinion?
crisp elm
i dont even know who you are. probably not
austere citrus
@distant river so um... Smasher and T22 stuff, completely balanced?
nimble zodiac
Not completely, but both are pretty nice
distant river
WG don't try and make things completely balanced that's literally what I was explaining...
They make things exactly the way they want to, except I think they didn't quite understand the full potential of the ATGM mechanics when they were first released
ionic ivy
@distant river so um... Smasher and T22 stuff, completely balanced?
@austere citrus No, but that's why you need to start learning weak spots and exploiting them.
austere citrus
I'm not saying based on my opinion. I don't really care about OP tanks, I'm just saying what I have seen personally. Every complains on T22 and Smasher, I don't. I'm saying what community is saying because I am unbiased.
ionic ivy
Bruh moment™️
remote oriole
Glad we at least have someone who’s unbiased in here, whatever that means
regal grove
Add in smooth brained to your unbiased opinion as well
austere citrus
ill admit, the balancing has been quiet well the past year
crisp elm
lol "unbiased" no one in this erver is unbiased
nimble zodiac
Like me, I love IS-7 for pubs, and think IS-4 is a brother, but not an older brother
Also EGirl if you claim to bring out the communities' thoughts then why are so many people disagreeing?
crisp elm
yep. this dude has some of the most ridiculous balance change requests ever.
karmic steeple
Omg new test tank that I see once every 50 battles has a good player driving it and is good nerf nerf nerf
ionic ivy
omg i did bad in a tank, buff buff buff
distant river
About to grind it: buff it
Just finished grinding it: nerf it
Prem: nerf it
The best way to balance blitz 🤔
glossy estuary
@unique scaffold I was mostly self deprecating 😂
crisp elm
its kinda funny how a lot of trash players are so quick to judge tanks they havent played
distant river
#RemoveAmxM454 sorry you were saying what?
drowsy idol
Honestly I’m only complaining about t28 and other stuff because it’s one of the 5 lines I played as an f2p
@ionic ivy omg I cannot tell how many times I Yeet myself and get sniped by a large gun because I’m new to playing super light tanks without Russian bias
winged barn
What I don't want is more tanks that are op that for some reason (money) they refuse to nerf. looks at smasher
Remember bois, apparently the smasher randomly became balanced because excellent players can kill noobs driving one.
ionic ivy
Disengage and focus another opponent. If you end up 1v1ing a smasher in a paper tank, you probably did something wrong.
@ionic ivy unless smasher is good player destroy rest of your teammates.
@sour comet then your team did something wrong because a smasher is 1/7 or 2/7 of the enemy team. Which leaves 5 other, relatively well balanced tanks to deal with.
sour comet
@ionic ivy unless smasher is good player destroy rest of your teammates.
winged barn
@ionic ivy so you are saying I should leave the smasher alive to delete my allies? I personally have no problems killing them, but they very quickly become a problem when the meatshields of my team die instantly.
The fact that I should be finding an easier target should signal a balancing problem. And again, leaving a very dangerous tank alive is not a smart decision. While I may know how to avoid them, many of my teammates do not.
Ah yes, I guess I am wrong then. They can be killed, so they are balanced. Good to know
ionic ivy
Unless you are positive you can defeat the smasher without losing virtually all your remaining hp, don't engage. Find/help a teammate whenever dealing with a Smasher. Otherwise, find an easier target.
karmic steeple
Basically use common sense and don’t put yourself in a losing situation
@winged barn not every tank can take on every tank in the game. There’s definitely some tanks that can go toe to toe with smasher that aren’t even op you just have to know how to play
nimble zodiac
Trying to 1v1 a Smasher is like trying to sit in the open for an enemy BP to eviscerate away at
nocturne mauve
1v1ing a smasher isn’t that difficult, he’s got a poor mobility and has very restricted aim because he’s very tall and has 6 degrees of depression
Smasher’s nerf was basically more 40wr owning it
And you cannot use a 1v1 to show whether a tank is OP or not
winged barn
Poor mobility?
looks at other heavies
And since when has the is6 fearless been the most brokenly op tank?
The skill of the players should not be the deciding factor of balance.
Fearless: gets tunneled hard
distant river
The fearless isn't op but if you see it you know it's likely you will lose that game 🤷♀️
tender bison
yeah lmao, what only the top 3 people get it or smth right? uhhh maybe thats too little
ionic ivy
Ill probably get the fearless and just not play it.
drowsy idol
Well you have to get diamond in ratings for a couple pieces ¯_(ツ)_/¯
distant river
There's currently 64 players according to blitzstars but I would think around 100-150 people own it, it's perfectly fine with it being how rare it is.
Imo if anything it should be a bit rarer so people who get to 5k every season won't quite be able to get it and you have to get on the leaderboard at least onc. Its never going to happen because WG likes things to be accessible to get more profit
tender bison
i wanna do ratings just for the camos, but im never able to play when rating battles are available
meager spruce
One more season and I should have my fearless
nocturne mauve
Haha, same
ionic ivy
Haha, different
karmic steeple
Imagine grinding ratings of all modes for a tank you won’t play
distant river
Its actually very fun to play just not one for when you are in a bad mood and focus annoys you 😂
nocturne mauve
@karmic steeple say it to the tryhards who completed it because of rocket spam
meager spruce
@karmic steeple what can I say except that you are 100% right
austere citrus
I got a great idea that you guys will like. How about we buff/nerf nothing since apparently nothing needs a buff/nerf.
drowsy idol
If there was nothing whats the point of the channel
winged barn
I mean, we have people saying the smasher is fine...
nocturne mauve
Smasher complains are prehistoric
Can’t fight a smasher? 99% of the players using it have 40wr
ionic ivy
IMO, it's like the Sheridan and missiles. Yes it breaks the game and causes issues, but there are multiple ways to counter it and if you use common sense and a bit more effort, you can overcome them. Quite easy honestly.
winged barn
Smasher complains are prehistoric
Can’t fight a smasher? 99% of the players using it have 40wr
@nocturne mauve that is literally the dumbest argument about balance I have seen. If we gave all 40%ers a 183 with a 1 second reload, I guess it would still be balanced.
Wow someone on this server took it as intended. emphasis
I mean, what is the point where the line is crossed?
nimble zodiac
I understand the emphasis, but I don't think Smasher should be taken up to a 183 with a 1s reload 😅
Well, I just think it's not broken too much, of course tuning could be taken, maybe the reload increased by a second or two, or simply longer than Tankensein's, or make it a 152mm nerf to Kpf's damage values and such, but the biggest thing about Smasher is its gun, and if it becomes... decent, then it won't mean as much, besides, it can bring good money in ;)
golden crane
hello
nimble zodiac
@golden crane hey, this is where people discuss how powerful tanks are for their usual enemies, feel free to make a ||reasonable|| opinion on what you think needs to be changed about certain tanks
ionic ivy
Before posting, think, is this a problem solved with common sense? Or is it bad enough that WG has to buff it. Also suggest what kind of buff you are looking for, try to suggest buffs that don't turn it into another version of a similar tech tree tank.
loud kernel
UK light tanks are OP. High camo, high mobility, excellent gun depression, high view range, excellent gun handling and penetration, have strong armor on manlet, have enough hull armor to ricochet, have HESH, all have high dpm. No reason to play other meds or lights unless ATGM
ionic ivy
batchat is faster iirc, or at least more agile
I do agree that it does sort of outclass the other t10 lights, but most t10 meds outclass the vickers.
pastel cairn
You kinda just listed all the positives of the Brits lights, but i do agree the hulls are a little too strong. especially on the tier IX imo
karmic steeple
Hulls? You mean turrets?
formal vale
Yeah, they could use a nerf to their gun mantlets. It'd also be beneficial to nerf their DPM a bit as well.
pastel cairn
the tier X's turret isn't as troll an the IX"s, i think the reloads are fine maybe nerf the alpha tho in regards to dpm
ionic ivy
or speed. Mantain Batchat as fastest t10 light, so vickers moves to a lightium role.
jagged crescent
which it's concerningly good at
golden crane
i like stronger kv 2
ionic ivy
Anyone know where the t10 tank stats for wr and damage are?
full token
#devs-answers as usual
vale sun
the hulls can pull troll bounces
uneven fiber
I played my tiger and guess what it's still sponge armour every tank penetrated me
jagged crescent
u have 2.5k dpm and top class gun handling, heavium mobility, a chunky amount of hp, and you want more?
golden crane
i'd like wargaming to boos the armor of the tiger 1 and a better kv 2
ionic ivy
real smoothbrain hours tbh
crystal spoke
The tiger really doesn't need armour and the kv2 definitely doesn't need to be buffed
loud kernel
Tiger 1 has a good turret and 1 of the best guns at tier 7. Use it. The armor is just for bots in tier 6
tender bison
maybe they would at least buff the tiger 1's mid plate a little
scarlet fjord
can you please buff the IS-7s penetration on the APCR rounds maybe something like 320-330
and either buff the power to weight ratio
or buff the aim time
one of these 3 please
uneven fiber
I meant tiger 2 lmao
heavy yarrow
If you buff any of them I would make the is7 borderline overpowered
scarlet fjord
It would be meta not overpowered
if you just buff the aim time enough to make the tank accurate it would be fine this is too inaccurate
low needle
@ionic ivy go search them up on Blitzstars
frosty oriole
i swear to god a vickers CR is literally a tiny ass medium
Its 30-40 tons and I remember being rammed by it in a batchat and taking a few hundred damage
umbral knot
Buff soviet heavy pen or buff their reload speed
Or buff their damage per shell cause other tanks could reload faster and pen the same amount but still do thr same damage as soviet heavy do
unique scaffold
Agreed
umbral knot
Like literally a tiger 2 could pen front of IS-3 and the IS 3 can't pen front of tiger 2, and plus tiger 2 got practacly the same dpm as an IS 3 has. i just wanna see soviet tank being reliable
meager spruce
They are reliable....The fact that you don't know how to shoot prammo is another story
tender bison
even that, a lot of the tier 8 IS tanks struggle penetrating the front of a tiger 2 reliably with prammo
compact nymph
@meager spruce why wasting your time? You are talking to someone who just discovered yesterday prammo can be bought for credits, and he is complaining about the low pen of his (probably still stock) IS-3.
plush perch
@meager spruce btw welcome bak
meager spruce
@compact nymph this servers purpose is literally pointless arguing so that is exactly what I am doing.
@plush perch great to be back too
umbral knot
@meager spruce why wasting your time? You are talking to someone who just discovered yesterday prammo can be bought for credits, and he is complaining about the low pen of his (probably still stock) IS-3.
@compact nymph literally got the BL 9 canon and plus i still cannot pen Tiger 2 front even though im using prammo round and my gun was max with an IS 8, like litterary i still cannot pen tiger 2 from front with a BL 9 canon and prammo, and they should make it so BL 9 could pen front of tiger 2 without the needs of prammo
meager spruce
IS3 on its top gun has 265mm prammo pen (without cs). When tiger II is perfectly angled, its upper plate becomes around 250mm so you can still easily butcher the tank. (also sidenote have you ever heard of shooting cupolas). The fact that you don't know how to aim or how to use prammo is your fault. If you want a tank that can pen the Tiger 2 frontally without prammo then maybe you should play TDs. But hey who am I to say how you play the game @umbral knot
@distant river bottom picture doesn't show a perfectly angled iger as you can go straight through the front drivewheel
distant river
This is it using max depression at the perfect angle, and another picture showing it on the flat at the perfect angle. This is without CS. This is literally your worst case scenario.
umbral knot
Penatration drop off is a real thing BTW, and plus prammo is expensive , you need alot of money to keep rebuying prammo, and that's not how it feels inpractice seriously that's not even official, penetratetion calculation gets updated
unique scaffold
It literally is offical also if your not loading gold you shouldnt be allowed to complain about pen then
meager spruce
The fact that you can't afford prammo and are blaming the tank you play for being bad just shows your ridiculous thought process.
Also most of the time when you engage a Tiger with an IS3 it 99% of the time close quarters combat (unless you are camping in it, which by this point I think you are doing) so the "Penatration drop off" is not a really valid argument as the distance between you and the tiger will definitely be bellow 150m.
And last of all if you want tanks with good pen then go play tds...
distant river
Sounds like someone is looking for a scapegoat now 🤔
Picture shows the tiger 500m away, which is a ludicrous situation. Its still green. If it isn't how it "feels" then that's entirely a user issue, and also prammo cost isn't an issue. If you find it is you still get free credit boosters, free prems, free prem time etc constantly. It is taken directly from the game files as well.
Whatever issue you have trying to pen the tiger with prammo is all in your head. It simply doesn't exist.
umbral knot
If tiger 2 could pen front of IS 3 without prammo why can't the IS
3 pen front of tiger 2 without prammo and plus mobility on tiger is good so flanking is out of questions, and plus a good turret travers
unique scaffold
Also the pen drop off shouldnt even be a big deal unless hes hitting tiger 2 at a super far range which requires a very rare and specific scenario also tiger 2 is noticeably taller and has the penetration advantage because of the angles tiger 2s mobility is ok for a heavy but not as good as an is3 the turret traverse also doesnt matter when tiger 2s turret is inferior to the is3s i feel like this is coming from bad experience and cherry picking
meager spruce
If tiger 2 could pen front of IS 3 without prammo why can't the IS
3 pen front of tiger 2 without prammo and plus mobility on tiger is good so flanking is out of questions, and plus a good turret travers
@umbral knot If a Su152 could pen a front of an E25 with HE why can't the E25 pen the Su 152 with HE...
It because they are different tank you dummy. Every tank has its strengths and weaknesses otherwise the game would be boring as hell... MY GOD.
Also IS3s mobility is better in every single aspect except terrain resistance so I don't even know why you mentioned that.
distant river
If you expose your hull frontally in an IS3 then you are doing something wrong 🤷♀️
(Or you have calculated and allowed for getting hit ofc but then you would be here complaining...)
umbral knot
@umbral knot If a Su152 could pen a front of an E25 with HE why can't the E25 pen the Su 152 with HE...
It because they are different tank you dummy. Every tank has its strengths and weaknesses otherwise the game would be boring as hell... MY GOD.
Also IS3s mobility is better in every single aspect except terrain resistance so I don't even know why you mentioned that.
@meager spruce is because E 25 is small and hard to hit and it has better mobility than Su 152.
unique scaffold
Man just unintentionally explained why hes wrong about is3
primal yacht
Was talking to a friend who was playing the same tank as me and while it took me 3 minutes to get into battles, it only took them only 15 seconds. It did this 6 times in a row before I finally got angry and quit. Why would MatchMaker do this? Because it’s rigged, and takes extra time to sort me into a battle?
hearty steeple
- This channel is not to discuss about mm
- Mm is not rigged.
- Try not to wear a tinfoil hat
unique scaffold
only way MM did that was you either cant tell the difference between rating and standard or MM was “rigging” some other inexperienced players to match
stiff edge
Or you could toon with your friend
primal yacht
No need to be insulting with your answers. There’s no channel labeled MM, so it logically fits best under balance. We both have about the same level experience. We both prefer regular, supremacy battles, and we both had them selected. There’s not as many players on at 5AM on the NA Server, so whatever the difference is, the result was very apparent. Neither of us are big on tooning, we were just talking while playing. Thanks.
unique scaffold
@primal yacht read the pinned messages
primal yacht
Pinned messages, where? Rules, or other?
tender eagle
@primal yacht do you have same device turned on and your friend does not?
iron lynx
Um I feel like the WZ-113 deserves a hull traverse buff. 20 degrees per second is very bad considering that the T110E5 and IS-4 has 30. I literally got flanked by a T110E5 just now.
stiff edge
i mean
its a heavy
that has crazy dpm
decent speed
and decent armour
if it didnt have the bad traverse it would be pretty op against meds
i dont think it needs a buff
austere citrus
i have it, its pretty good, but hull traverse would be a bit op, turret traverse is more likley
oak dust
The tiger 1 is still sucks
oak dust
We need a little bit armored increase
ionic ivy
really a bruh moment
jagged crescent
I love my 113 but why are the shells APCR if they dont even have the shell velocity of APCR
orchid grove
Because they're supposed to be AP shells, but WG sucks and made it APCR
(Roughly the same pen drop as an AP shell IIRC)
remote oriole
Because.. lower normalisation? More pen drop (if even)? No idea
plush perch
@remote oriole less normalization and less pen
oak dust
113 even have a thinner armor than a normal tiger lol
ionic ivy
apcr is supposed to have higher velocity than ap, but at the cost of lower normalization.
compact nymph
The tiger 1 is still sucks
@oak dust the Tiger I is more than good now, if you can't do well in it it's your problem
113 even have a thinner armor than a normal tiger lol
@oak dust you probably understand very little to armor profiles by saying that....
ionic ivy
certified smoothbrain
indigo knot
Tiger1 is supposed to be played like a heavy medium tank....not fighting HTs head on
ionic ivy
Who pinged me
compact nymph
Tiger1 is supposed to be played like a heavy medium tank....not fighting HTs head on
Yea but your average bot be like "hurr durr I can't sit in the open and bounce everything fired at my heavy tank WG buff pls"
plush perch
Tiger 1 is best medium tank in tier 7
autumn zodiac
The best part is, nowadays the Tiger 1 can fight heavies head on, and yet people still can't use it well even though it has great stats.
plush perch
it is monster
twilit crystal
tiger 1 is just a tier 8 medium that goes 40 instead of 50 kmh 😂
oak dust
everything is fine when you see a SU 152 aiming at you, I just keep getting ammo rack from the SU 152. But i cant blame it, The SU 152 is used scared the enemy away if we change it, then you have the tank that no one will ever use it
austere citrus
give 113 AP not APCR
orchid grove
Well, technically, 113 does have thinner frontal armor than the Tiger I. 113 UFP is 120mm nominal, Tiger I is 165mm nominal
It's just that 113's upper plate is sloped back at 67 degrees lol
nocturne mauve
Actually, I’d like to see AP for some tier X tanks instead of APCR
unique scaffold
Proper APDS would be great
drowsy idol
Does shell velocity affect pen or only to hit scouts
dense walrus
Yes, penetration decreases (at varying rates) over distance, although not on HEAT shells
plush perch
i prefer ap over HEAT
stiff edge
HE shells also dont lose pen over distance
jagged crescent
113 AP
austere citrus
113 must get AP
hearty patrol
@compact nymph literally got the BL 9 canon and plus i still cannot pen Tiger 2 front even though im using prammo round and my gun was max with an IS 8, like litterary i still cannot pen tiger 2 from front with a BL 9 canon and prammo, and they should make it so BL 9 could pen front of tiger 2 without the needs of prammo
@umbral knot ur bad then
austere citrus
shoot cupola
mental pasture
Or flank it
Bro ur just on a lack of good luck, MM is 100% alleatory, even 60% players get lose streaks sometime @scarlet fjord
Also this channel isn't about MM
scarlet fjord
- This channel is not to discuss about mm
- Mm is not rigged.
- Try not to wear a tinfoil hat
@hearty steeple 56% today winrate
you sure about that?
it happens on a daily basis that i lose 7/0 5 times straight so it doesn't let me get to 70% for the day unless i play for hours
remember this tho the Type 61 i used was at 80% crew
hearty steeple
My 3 points still stand
ionic ivy
^^^ You just need to take a break.
coarse harness
The MM is random
There are ups and downs
When you win like 10 battles in a row thats fine but with a lose streak the MM is rigged and stuff like that
Seems legit
nocturne mauve
I once had a 40% past 30d
winged barn
Matchmaking has rigged all 45000 of my matches to give me a 59wr.
austere citrus
i remember when u can HE the side of a tiger 2 with ru 251 HE
warped latch
T26E5 is suck, no armor and low alpha damage. And the team balancing should be consider the player's win-rate, now always low win-rate noobs team against the high win-rate elite team
nocturne mauve
It’s pretty good, a direct upgrade from T26E4
unique scaffold
Not the place to complain about MM and E5 is literally better than Action X in some cases
jagged crescent
u can still he the side of a tiger II if its not angled
hushed otter
why this is not a ace?
nimble zodiac
Because enough players have earned more
jagged crescent
<@&481447501690568709> annoying^ and he did it in multiple channels
bold dagger
hollow shell
is the mark of excellence system from the pc version ever gonna come to blitz? (i know that they are two entirely different games but it would be super epic if we could get something like that here on blitz)
royal wagon
I think the conqueror needs a turret armor buff or given 10* of gun depression. Its been lacking for awhile now and is usually useless in battles
nimble zodiac
I'd choose turret over GD for balance
winged barn
Tanks that require skill are bad. Make all tanks noobproof
unique scaffold
T26E5 is suck, no armor and low alpha damage. And the team balancing should be consider the player's win-rate, now always low win-rate noobs team against the high win-rate elite team
@warped latch I think ur just bad in it
drowsy idol
If you think it’s bad then it’s because you’re playing it wrong. Which is why I think leopard pta sucks
jagged crescent
nerf t1 heavy
coarse harness
It's like a mobile maus in that tier
topaz geyser
What?
versed tide
P43 ter needs major pen and maybe a minor dpm buff/
austere citrus
No No No No No No No
velocity buff on WZ 113 is always appreciated because it has APCR, or change it to AP if you ain't buffing velocity
karmic portal
T1 heavy needs buff. The bdr is powercreeping it
karmic steeple
Yes
unique scaffold
T1 heavy needs buff. The bdr is powercreeping it
@karmic portal sadly ur not wrong the BDR got way to many buffs
deft owl
Buff Smasher
austere citrus
Ngl, BDR is legit too OP. Like when you are tier 4, it's legit like How do you pen. Even if the guy faces you on the side completely flat, still no pen
toxic cove
who cares about low-level
warped latch
@unique scaffold I'll be patient to see how you show to master it😌
unique scaffold
Ngl, BDR is legit too OP. Like when you are tier 4, it's legit like How do you pen. Even if the guy faces you on the side completely flat, still no pen
@austere citrus the valentine mk IX is the only tank that i know that pens it in the front reliably with out gold @warped latch wym master it i dont player lower then 8 lol
austere citrus
is gold even a thing at tier 4-5?
drowsy plaza
yes
umbral knot
Can tog 2 teir be lowered maybe to teir 4
warped latch
@unique scaffold Oh the T26E5 is tier 8 🤭 LMAO
mental pasture
Yes @umbral knot
If tanks between tier 4-5 do platoon, there's a chance to enter in tier 6 battle
tender bison
hahahah most tanks in tier4 dont have enough dpm to kill a tog, over 1.6k health
umbral knot
hahahah most tanks in tier4 dont have enough dpm to kill a tog, over 1.6k health
@tender bison just lower the hp of the tog as easy as that
austere citrus
tog 2 should get buff to 2k health just because its a tog, its not like its OP, its just big and chunky
nimble zodiac
I mean TOG shoulda gotten a more sustaining buff during the heavy update
stiff edge
didnt it get like 10/15 hp
thonk
crisp elm
15 hp
umbral knot
tog 2 should get buff to 2k health just because its a tog, its not like its OP, its just big and chunky
@austere citrus well it has paper armor so i think it should be on teir 4 and get a lower hp
austere citrus
tier 8 legit has like 80-160alpha per tank, it would be too OP
nimble zodiac
w-what? tier 8s have like 190+
if you mean tier IV then sure, yeah
crystal spoke
@umbral knot it also has an excellent turret and gun with great pen and good dpm
drowsy pivot
p44, BC 25T and bc25t ap, need 1 more projectile in the comb to compensate for the arrival of atgms, Vickers L and its lack of blading, amx 50b also needs 1 more projectile, wargaming, JUST DO IT
unique scaffold
They really don’t if you know how the basic concept of balance works
turbid smelt
bc 25t ap can use bit of mobility buff, it is kinda sluggish and 30mm of armour doesn't do any justice
@SirDirty
they can drown in air
tender bison
once it gets to its top speed its good, but man does the bc 25t ap have horrible acceleration
unique scaffold
did u guys know @silent sentinel said fish could drown
austere citrus
i mean hes right
plush perch
put that fish in a water without oxygen and he will be dead , technically drown
unique scaffold
🤦🏽♂️ suffocation
umbral knot
Nerf smasher
graceful garden
Excluding TOG II* and Maus, all the heavies should be reverted to pre-Sheridan levels of HP. The already heavy meta became nearly 100% heavy, as the HP buff massively increased their survivability and effectiveness. The fact that heavy tanks have the highest average winrates and damages just shows that they are the ideal "do-all" carry tanks of Blitz. Check #devs-answers for heavy stats.
plush perch
all heavies needs small hp nerf , is4 needs bigger one
unique scaffold
The developers ask you a question, why am I spending money ??? for such a balance in the game ???? what do you think, where is the justice and all this is one defeat !!! Why is there such an imbalance in the selection of players in the game There are newcomers in one team, and there are only experienced players in the opposing team, reconsider the accrual of awards for participation in the battle, and in general, review the entire gameplay with randomness, I go into the game to get Pleasure and in the end I get one disappointment, if you want your game to develop effectively, you need to create comfortable conditions for beginners !!!
compact nymph
Excluding TOG II* and Maus, all the heavies should be reverted to pre-Sheridan levels of HP. The already heavy meta became nearly 100% heavy, as the HP buff massively increased their survivability and effectiveness. The fact that heavy tanks have the highest average winrates and damages just shows that they are the ideal "do-all" carry tanks of Blitz. Check #devs-answers for heavy stats.
Why driving a medium when you could be using the T110E5 which has the improved speed boost anyways? With the provisions it has up to 2650 hit points, way more than any medium.
unique scaffold
create conditions for beginners to play in their own environment, make the border to the level of experienced players, so that only new players are randomly collected and let them play with each other, I think the random should determine the players from the number of win percentages, the higher the statistics, respectively, the player should play in the environment where the statistics are high, then the issue will be resolved with those players who use a twin account in the game 😎✌️✌️✌️And a new player should start the game not with 100% statistics, but from scratch, as the developers should have done !!!!Since for new players who have arrived in the game, there is a quick disappointment in the game, too good selection of players in the random house and you lose the audience that may have invested money in your game.Think about these dear developers.
spiral jetty
I have important question.
I own tog for a long time and its only advantage was big pool of hp
Some time ago every ht from tier 6 to 10 got hp buff, why Tog didn't?
Now it's usless and desn't gife fun as before ;-;
shell marsh
to be fair, it's realistic. The Tog II is a redesign of the Tog I, which was a World War One tank. The Tog II was produced by the British at one point during World War Two because they thought it'd just be Trench Warfare again, much like World War One. However, they quickly put it out of production after the German Blitzkrieg happened, which showed the British that this war was going to be a lot more mobile. In a sense, the Tog II isn't even meant to fight things like a KV-2, an SU-100, M6, Sherman Firefly, VK, or any tank of the such for that matter. The Tog II's design was meant to fight off thinks like the German ACV, which was a World War One armored 'tank/car' but had the newer, more practical AP rounds. @spiral jetty
stiff edge
Did you just mention realism in blitz
shell marsh
Yes, I did. And as a matter of fact, since we're on the topic of realism.
The KV-2's derp mechanic makes sense. It's a 152mm HOWITZER with armor-piercing shells that can penetrate just about whatever it comes across on the battlefield, given it's the normal usual tier. On that note, Howitzers were often incorporated into Tanks by the Soviet Union. The last howitzer tank to ever be produced like that, was the "ISU-203," that had the powerful 203mm howitzer and ALSO had Armor Piercing rounds. It had the capabilities of most usual ISU/SU tanks, minus the usual mobility to compensate for the tanks' overall weight. So if you ever wanna complain about "Derp Guns," just know that WG could just frickin' drop the ISU-203 at any moment and ruin your day/night. It'd probably be a premium but derp is derp.
On another note, there is a slight sense of realism to Blitz, minus the other gamemodes and the Promotion Tanks, like the Smasher, Lycan, Dracula, Lycan Knight, Lupus, Edelwiess, Nameless, etc. The Armor Piercing makes sense, and the health bar is only because the game was originally meant for mobile and it was an easier way than having no healthbar and guessing every time you get hit.
stiff edge
...
i got nothing to say
shell marsh
Thank you for coming to my TED talk