Sees that T57 & 50B are getting buffed
oh this is nice
.5 second faster clip reload
#tank-balance-discussion
final root
sullen vault
@final rootare u suggesting or is that there plan :b
final root
Probably the plan as it inspires nothing new
sullen vault
Id rather take a nice traverse buff for the 50b.the traverse on it currently is really annoying and many time prevents it from being actually mobile enough in certain situations
iron hearth
they will never buff their intra clip reload thats for sure
clever void
Any dpm buff will be glorious
final root
At best for the gun is either dispersion on the move or some pitiful clip reload decrease
sullen vault
Imagine 50b with heat instead of apcr 😮
clever void
Amx 50B already my highest average dmg tank. I say bring them buffs !😊
final root
Imagine 50B being called Amx 50 Surbaissé instead
unique scaffold
Imagine it having an actually good legendary camouflage
sullen vault
AMX-50S 😎
final root
Imagine a 20 round autoloader
sullen vault
It would be unique to give one of them 4 shot auto,but i feel like it would be too hard to balance
clever void
Now ur losing ur mind son
final root
Imagine not getting sarcasm
clever void
Well gib us a second gun option and work on it till balanced
sullen vault
Give Foch auto 🥖
clever void
They would have to nerf it into oblivion
final root
Two things, imagine feedback being used & I have a good camouflage for my Surbaissé @sullen vault
sullen vault
Lol, for the t57 i would say give it upper turret armor very strong but make the cheeks weak,or reduce the intra more dunno
ebon swift
t20 buff
final root
If you buff the armor on T57's (hull) people will expect the same for M103 @sullen vault
sullen vault
M103 big doodoo,i do agree it needs a buff similiar.
haughty narwhal
@lusty silo previt. Where is wz 120 td on the stats page?
final root
Then if you buff T54E1 hull you'll need to buff M48
sullen vault
Make the m48 like on pc 🔥
honest urchin
may I add that these tanks do not really need hull buff
why didnt they buff the turret?
quick lichen
It has to be 1% of all games played in that tier to be classified I think
@haughty narwhal
sullen vault
I still stand with 183 being removed since its literally the definition of imbalance
haughty narwhal
Hmm could be. I just was told that the y axis would have been too high that it would scale the others to a point where you wouldn't tell the differences 😂
haughty narwhal
😂😂 truth
ebon swift
t95 buff
carmine spear
Buff the T-44-100
final root
I'll take Buff server ping
ebon swift
@quick lichen oof i rarely won a match with it
final root
Then it would either be you or the team & not the vehicle
ebon swift
team and enemy lol
twilit crystal
I think 50b is mostly fine. Give it a slight traverse buff(id take that) but its fine. The t57 heavy is an awful tank
twilit crystal
for e50m id say it should just get a nerf equivalent to losing around 5% of its crew. The tank overall is overtuned but not extremely OP.
final root
Inb4 2.4
twilit crystal
Making the e50m slightly worse in everything should be fine and tune it down a bit without ruining it because it is a bit too good at everything
strong condor
E50m gun depression buff was too much
twilit crystal
not really. It used to get rekt by 140s/t62s and other tanks facehugging it
strong condor
And now it rekts everything and its best medium by far. Firerate buff was enough
sullen vault
@quick lichen or same as tvp 😂 like 1sec intra
twilit crystal
@strong condor again its overtuned not brokenly OP. It just needs a slight nerf to most categories
Anyway im happy for the amx 50b buff. Finally WG is buffing autoloaders to their true potential
@orchid grove
jaunty pivot
I think 95% of all the tanks in the game could use a pen nerf. There are lots of tanks that sound good on paper but get penned way too easily like the Tiger ll. I’m only talking about a small nerf like 5-10 mm of pen lower. These maps are kind of small and if tanks are being balance for smaller maps so should the pen.
Also some tanks have a stupid amount of gold pen like 300+ mm of pen at tier 8 like wtf has 300 of armor at tier 8....this is not PC
twilit crystal
More like the tiger 2 sucks overall. It basically has the armor of a tiger 1 in practical use while having worse mobility than the e75 or tiger with bad dpm and mediocre. alpha
young vault
Am i halucinating or does cammo net rarely ever work/show up on waffle? I myself rarely ever see it activate when standing completely still and now i see the same issue in a video on youtube 🤔
jaunty pivot
That’s the issue tiger 2 shouldn’t suck at least not that bad
twilit crystal
It also looks like the su 122 54 isnt really op. DPM isnt everything. The gun overall on the su 122 54 outside of the DPM is pretty mediocre. Avg pen,Lowish alpha, bad accuracy
sullen vault
I loved the su54 even before the buff,its a very nice tank and giving that buff on its dpm i would say would make it extremely capable and maximizes its potential on its purpose.
twilit crystal
oh yeah dont me wrong im not calling the tank trash. I like it overall. Great mobility/agility with best in class camo. Its just people overrate the DPM. The jadtiger overall has much better effective DPM with a more accurate gun,better alpha,better pen etc.
sullen vault
The thing is i was never bothered with its gun handling considering ur not really playing that sniper role or the hulldown stationary position the jagd plays.when u play with meds its gonna turn into effective trading-dpm efficiency, in which now with the buff,the 54 excels heavily
twilit crystal
oh yes of course. But I can't count the amount of times I flank snipe only for 2-3 shots to miss side of heavy tanks
deft owl
Its time to buff tortoise. Worst overall damage and winrate in tier 9 tds.
twilit crystal
Nope. Keep the 183 line bad so less people go for it
sleek vault
i dunno... i think tortoise is fine
sullen vault
Tortoise,amx 50 120 and the tyoe 61 all need buffs
twilit crystal
There's a reason why WG is buffing the clearly UP t57 heavy but not buffing the toirtoise. WG knows its a bad tank but not buffing it because they want to limit 183s
deft owl
The tank comes later cannot be a balancing factor. Tortoise should not be crap just because it leads to 183.
twilit crystal
Yes it should. There is no reason to grind the toirtoise unless you want the 183
Its basically a good free XP sink for WG.
deft owl
183 is already a crap tank. Its statistically the worst tank in tier x. That doesnt means tortoise should be crap either.
twilit crystal
If its such a bad tank then why is it played so much?\
unique scaffold
And here are the best t8
jaunty pivot
On pc Tortoise has alot more armor
twilit crystal
Its absurd people just spam the 120in ratings and get top 10
deft owl
Because its so easy to deal huge amount of damage with lesser skill. Its a low skill ceiling tank. Thats why.
unique scaffold
Yeah. Ez get 5k rating
twilit crystal
you mean high skill floor. It has a very high skill ceiling too
unique scaffold
It is, but with 120 super ez
twilit crystal
Low skill ceiling is something like the at15. You just cant carry some games due to your mobility
unique scaffold
Hide lower plate and bam bam bam in 120
deft owl
Nope 183 doesnt require much skill to play. Just camp behind a bush and shoot when someone comes in front of you.
At15 is high skill ceiling tank. You cant do well in that tank unless you have some skills.
unique scaffold
Yes, its limited at15..120 can turn t49..its so stupid..
twilit crystal
no HIGH SKILL CEILING Means you can do very well if you are a very good player
deft owl
Thats what i said. You can do well in at15 if you are good. If you are bad you cant do well. At15 is high skill ceiling tank.
twilit crystal
No you cant do good in the at15 if you are good.
Its too inflexible . For example if You have a 45% winrate you should have 47 with at15 but if you have 60% it should be something like 57%
jaunty pivot
I feel the concept of sitting back and shooting from a distance is ez to do. Meaning almost all TDs are easier to do higher damage then any other tank class
twilit crystal
yeah but doesnt mean you win games
deft owl
Do you know the meaning of high skill ceiling? High skill ceiling means that tank requires skill to do good in it. Low skill ceiling means any idi ot can do well in it.
183 is low skill ceiling tank because any idi ot can point and click when its behind a bush. At15 is high skill ceiling tank because only skillful players can utilize its armor and dpm advantage.
twilit crystal
l
jaunty pivot
I think its subjective.
unique scaffold
@deft owl all tenk req some skill. Shooting in weak spot is skill, 30 wr players dont know that. So..
twilit crystal
SOmeone doesnt understand high skill ceiling. It means
deft owl
For example Amx elc bis is high skill ceiling tank. Kv-220 t is low skill ceiling tank. You dont have to be a very good player to do well in kv220t because its armor layout is very forgiving. On the other hand elc require knowledge of camo rating and extreme amount of map awereness.
@unique scaffold Ofc all tanks require skill. But some tanks require more skill to do well in it.
jaunty pivot
lol
deft owl
High and low skill ceiling isnt really subjective. Is-4 requires less skill to do well then leopard 1.
jaunty pivot
What u r trying to argue is subjective.
unique scaffold
It isn't subjective. @deft owl is correct. Some tanks take more skill or skills to do well in.
jaunty pivot
posted a link to the definition but someone deleted it
twilit crystal
No he's wrong lol with the definition of it. High skill ceiling means something different
unique scaffold
I agree on that point as well. Skill ceiling is not the same as skill.
twilit crystal
Faster tanks have a Higher skill ceiling because they are more flexible.
jaunty pivot
Skill I think is wrong word to use. Some tanks require more knowledge then others.
deft owl
I didnt sad skill and skill ceiling is same thing. Im saying is high skill ceiling tanks requires more skill to do well while low skill ceiling tanks does not require much skill to do well. And those things arent subjective because tanks with armor always forgiving while tanks with no armor has no room for error. Make one mistake and you are gone.
twilit crystal
Low skill ceiling tanks are less elastic while high skill celing tanks are more elastic
For example a high floor/low ceiling means the ranges for a 40 to 60% players would be 44 to 56%. aka worse players do better but good players do worse. Low floor/high ceiling is
violet sonnet
How is 62a still doing mediocre with current stats on it????
And is it time to buff stb1. Pls say yes
sullen vault
Because it is in fact just above average,just buffing the gun stats isnt really anything outstanding
violet sonnet
IMO tanks should be balanced according to abilities .... not because ppl cant play that tank well.
unique scaffold
My big take away is that the Batchats need buffs. Yes please.
deft owl
Im actually suprised how bc have such low overall damage with autoloader.
sullen vault
Well because thats a different take.Batchat doesnt have the necessary gum handling and punching power the others have so its consistency is quite low which shows in the graph
violet sonnet
Batchat is only light so hard to see it be compared to mediums and get buff based on that
deft owl
Also E50m will going to get nerfed it seems.
twilit crystal
Batchat is bad because its a Super low skill floor tank and avg skill ceiling due to WG's absurd balancing techniques
sullen vault
Batchat just needs a buff that makes it consistent,wether it be shorter intra or better gun handling.
twilit crystal
A bad player will do incredibly horrible in it while a good player will merely perform like any other tank. The way it should be is that bad players should do horrible in it but good players should rekt in it
olive hawk
@sullen vault yus 4 shell autoloader pls
deep pewter
on PC tor have 270 front armor
flat zephyr
@unique scaffold nope bc is better than it should be
violet sonnet
Batchat would be fine with slight gun handling buff. (And dare i say any ideas of special equipment geared towards light tanks only. Like faster unload or binos ??)
twilit crystal
e50m only needs an overall nerf in everything but not much. also lol ^ BC is not better than it should be. Even good players only perform avg
sullen vault
4 shell auto won t make it consistent 😂
olive hawk
Shhhh
flat zephyr
3300 with 78% win in 300 battles in a light tank, such an Average thing
unique scaffold
Give it a 2.5 intraclip reload and slightly better gun handling.
twilit crystal
its a joke that the 25 ap has better gun handling
olive hawk
good players do great in batchat
violet sonnet
Not to balance to the players ability but to the characteristics of the tank. To make it different
flat zephyr
@unique scaffold then nerf the speed and camo values because it became op😐
sullen vault
I got 3k because i play it with my mates and do whack stuff :v,but i dont believe much in buffing its intra so much.down to 3 would be enough
twilit crystal
no . They do avg as you can see above. Theys hould do great however. The problem is WG's absurd 55 to 65% balancing that limits high skill ceiling tanks
violet sonnet
Should it be 55 to 75?
flat zephyr
@twilit crystal also take into consideration: it's a light tank. It is not meant to be brawler or damage dealer
twilit crystal
IT basically says good players should do good in an is4 as they do in a batchat 25t which is absurd. A good player should do worse in an is4 than they would normally but better in a batchat. @violet sonnet there isn't really a sample size past 65 anyway. Balancing should be done with ALL PLayers not 55 to 65ers. STop punishing me for playing tanks that require skill
olive hawk
wut
unique scaffold
The idea with all players is absurd
twilit crystal
Simple balancing. Take the winrate of every player and then compare it to the tank winrate. Take the difference and subtract a bit too account for the newness factor(you generally improve as a player so newer tanks do better)
flat zephyr
Light tanks all need skill. Much more than other tanks so the thing that it is doing like an average medium, that is great for it
unique scaffold
This guy gets it
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold why is it absurd to use all players. 55 to 65% are a very small percentage of the player base
violet sonnet
Should balancing not be done with the same scale ... like why compare heavies with the same scale as batchat
unique scaffold
<55% are players that don't take this game too serious and thus their averages shouldn't be taken into account
twilit crystal
Uh so what? They still are the vast majority of players
grave bear
All the 310 alpha damage guns are actually doing 280 alpha damage with just less +/- % than regular 280 alpha guns.
unique scaffold
Balancing the game off of less than 10% of the playerbase seems off to me.
grave bear
how's possible that my tiger II does more regularly 240 damage with AP than 320?
flat zephyr
If they use the information that players with 65+ winrate do have with tanks, some tanks would seem op
twilit crystal
Simple solution. Take a 100 shot sample of non ammo rack/non kill shots and take the avg dmg . It should be around 310
jaunty pivot
Tortoise: just keep ur distance and use dpm end of story. CDC do same think and flank end of story
lunar arrow
@RibbleStripe Pz58/Mutz still not statistically viable?
flat zephyr
If you use the stats that really good players have with tanks like leo, they seem better than it is
grave bear
@twilit crystal i already did it in randoms, around 15 shots x battle, did the average of 20 battles, never used HE or killed someone with less than 388 HP and removed fire damage.
twilit crystal
exactly thats the problem. THEY HAve to use ALL PLAYERS
unique scaffold
Nor is WZ 120 FT bc we know why
jaunty pivot
To me that’s not skill. The definition of skill is playing frontline and not dying
flat zephyr
No they shouldn't
twilit crystal
Why shouldn't they?
unique scaffold
Ah yes. Let's take into consideration players with high ping, low fps and trolls. Great idea
flat zephyr
Think of it this way: for example I'm an op player that love bc, doing 3200 on average and 70 winrate, doing 1k battles every update with it, for the 1000 battles I do good in it, there are more than double battles with horrible stats. This won't represent the tank
olive hawk
door knob
flat zephyr
There should be players that know something, but not super players so use it with strange tactics and too good performance
A player with under 55, they mostly don't know how to play it correctly, players with more than 65 know how to cover the weak points
twilit crystal
Doesn't matter. All players should be included.
flat zephyr
Then some tanks would seem underperforming and some seem op, but they are not.
twilit crystal
Its unfair to punish good players for doing well in a tank that require skill by equalizing the tanks at the high skill level part
An is4 should underperform with good players. A bad gun, with meh mobility should be bad. The batchat SHould overpform with a decent unique gun with great mobility
flat zephyr
Bc does over perform in a decent player's hands
twilit crystal
as it should tho. It doesn't really overperform . A good player can do as well with an is4 as they do with a batchat
flat zephyr
Is4 is a bit troll though, even if the player is not good it will get some bounces
twilit crystal
^ and thats the problem. It should have that troll ability for newer players but better players should be limited with the is4
unique scaffold
The batchats currently aren't over performing though. The current metrics are based off being played by decent players.
flat zephyr
Wait what 😐
You saying great players in bc should do better than they do in is4?😐
twilit crystal
are you being sarcastic?
unique scaffold
While I think including all players may be a bit much I think more players should be included. Make the matrix 50% to 65% wr players.
twilit crystal
No just make it all players. Theres no reason. The is4 is clearly a OP tank RN with a slightly above avg skill ceiling but very high skill floor.
flat zephyr
All players should not be counted, but agreed with that, 68-52 would be better I guess
twilit crystal
I fail to see why all players shouldn't be counted. You still exclude the majority of players with 52%
flat zephyr
Yes because thay don't know how to use the tank at all. You want to count a 40%'s stats as a balancing factor?
twilit crystal
I want to play OP tanks for good players that actually reward my skill level rather than making my is4 equally as good as something like the 50b. Yes I do want to count 40% as a balancing factor because they are still players. 65% are insanely good players that are really rare especially 65% at tier X and IX
45% are much more COMMOn than something like a 65%. So what if they can't play th egame? They Affect the game much more
flat zephyr
Then there would be no balance in game unfortunately. Also is4 isn't performing like a 50b, but also if you are rewarded with an is4 if you have the skill
twilit crystal
uh how that would be no balance? That the avg player does avgerly in all tanks rather than the current situation where different tanks have vastly different winrates for the AVG player(note i say avg not median)
flat zephyr
If you think you are acting same as a 50b in an is4, then unfortunately I must say you are not much skilled in is4 comparing to 50b
twilit crystal
I think do just fine in the amx 50b and play it quite well including in tournaments. I also do just as fine in the is4 winrate wise even though I shouldn't
deft owl
Nerf is-4. End of the story.
flat zephyr
Because mediums would be insane again. Most of medium tank players are actually bad, they would represent the tanks weak, then they should get a buff, then they will get op in all players with some knowledge of mediums (55+) and .....
twilit crystal
nothing wrong with that. Id rather have the game take over more skill at the top level. Currently in tourneys its generally heavy tanks being spammed. Either 113/is4 with 1-2 tds and 1-2 meds
Seeing hull down is4s go at each other is super boring.
deft owl
@flat zephyr So you are saying all medium tank drivers are bad? Then how e50m manage to get best overall damage and winrate in entire tier?
flat zephyr
They are spammed because they need less skill, have high potential to block shots which will decrease the skill of the enemy team
twilit crystal
COZ thats 55 to 65% players which is the most absurd balancing technique in the game to balance around 10% of players
100% of players are affected by balancing done to 10% players.
unique scaffold
@flat zephyr don't you see there's no one to talk to
twilit crystal
Rather atleast 95% of players should be used . 40% to 60%. Maybe exclude top 2.5 and bottom 2.5% coz those are outliers
flat zephyr
@deft owl it's because the player base limitations that are included in the charts. According to our friend, most of players are lower than 55% and at 55% and below, medium tanks are doing worse than heavies. In the 55-65 playerbase, yes it shows the true power of 50m but if they count all the weak and op players, it would represent the tank much weaker
deft owl
55 and 65 is not %10 of the player base. Its almost %40.
unique scaffold
I personally would like to see a compromise between the current system and what @twilit crystal is proposing. But that is just me.
twilit crystal
LOL HOw is 55 to 65% 40% of the player base when the avg winrate is 48%?
unique scaffold
40% will suck at any tank so it would seem that a tank is worse than it actually is
deft owl
Active player base is more likely.
unique scaffold
40-50% are still clueless noobs
twilit crystal
A 40% player will suck more in a batchat than an is4. Therefore this makes the is4 seem more OP overall and it should be nerfed.
flat zephyr
@twilit crystal and vice versa
unique scaffold
Not if he doesn't angle his IS4 or use the available terrain to hide his lower plate
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold you really think he does better in the batchat than an is4? Any idiot in the is4 can do something unlike the batchat
flat zephyr
@twilit crystal also it doesn't mean they nerf is4, it means they buff bc and the story goes on
twilit crystal
Im only using is4 and batchat as two polar opposite examples. @deft owl plz explain how 40% of the playerbase falls between 55 and 65%. Wirnate is clearly a normal model
unique scaffold
Are you implying that both IS4 and batchat should be averaging the same dmg? This doesn't make sense. In batchat you should be spotting, not farming dmg
flat zephyr
This conversation in my opinion is getting out of logic from both sides
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold they should have the same winrate for the AVg player
deft owl
Im not telling 55-65 is good model to balance tanks. Im saying 55-65 is not the %10 of the player base. Its more.
flat zephyr
No they shouldn't act the same on average.
twilit crystal
How is it >10%? lol. 7% is easily more than a standard deviation from winrate.
flat zephyr
This conversation is not logical anymore. both sides are speaking nonsense I guess including me
unique scaffold
I really don't see your point, the current system is the best there can be
@deft owl. I suspect it is less. When we had wotbstars it would tell you where you sat in the playerbase. At the time I was a 58% wr player and it told me that I was in the top 10% of the playerbase.
flat zephyr
Does anyone know that are the charts still gathered from ru server or all servers?
unique scaffold
On your server
twilit crystal
its maybe like 12-15% max
but 10% is a very reasonable guess. Anyway its still a relatively small minority that shouldn't be used when the vast majority of players/games have less than 55% winrate. Atleast 85% of players have <55%
We can agree the avg is 48%. Assuming winrate is normal you would need a standard deviation in winrate of 8% to get that percentage of even 30%
that is a very High standard deviation
regal abyss
Nerf the e50 m it's broken but it's a tech tree tank
twilit crystal
not really. ITs overtuned I agree but its not broken lol
If im in another med and I see an e50m on the enemy team I know I probably have some advantages over it and I can use those to beat it. STB and patton use depression . STB uses camo, Patton goes hull down. 140 is much more mobile+better camo and DPM.
unique scaffold
It's not 'much' more mobile
coarse harness
Time to buff the Centurion 1 and the T28👀
unique scaffold
The is2sh tho...
What a trash tank
coarse harness
Agree😐
twilit crystal
Its more agile. Acceleration+traverse. . Again I can always find a way to beat the e50m because it really isn't the best at anything for a tier X medium besides upper hull armor and hp pool but thats neglible
DPM? Leo+Ruskies beat it, Turret armor? t62 and the pattons and 121. Penetration is also beaten. Accuracy is technically best in class but gun handling is pretty bad. Gun depression. Patton,STB,M60.
deft owl
Is2 sh already buffed.
regal abyss
Eh I thought I start a war or 2 or see what people say
unique scaffold
When? @deft owl
regal abyss
Give the amx30 b a %10000 credit coefficient and call that a buff
I would buy it for sure from crates
unique scaffold
Idk what to say on that one...
regal abyss
WARGAMING just do it believe in yourself to do this one simple but lovely buff a crappy tank makes a ton of credits so who cares how it plays
unique scaffold
Idk I think turret cheeks are too weak and the upper front plate is also too weak
clever void
In pub battles it’s just fine. It’s in tourneys where the decent players know where to pene it where it sucks. Almost all premium ammo penes cheeks
regal abyss
That's the point weak tank makes a ton of credits you have to work for those credits plus it a good business deal for wargaming
deft owl
Is2sh needs buff to its side armor. Armor behind tracks is only 60 mm which is pathetic when regular is has 90mm.
unique scaffold
It's obviously not fine if you look at the charts @clever void
I think it's just a weak tank
clever void
I’m not saying it doesn’t need a buff. It’s just easy for me to do ok in it in pub battles by not exposing a lot of the weak parts
regal abyss
U always expose the tumor on top of its head
clever void
Against nubs it doesn’t matter. Then don’t have a clue
unique scaffold
If you face a competant player I don't think you can really do much
clever void
Except play second line support. Ya
deft owl
Chrysler k beats is2sh every single day.
regal abyss
No give it credit coefficient of 10000 @unique scaffold why not have a good credit making what is wrong with yall come onnnnn
unique scaffold
That is an even worse way of balancing tanks than wg's lazy "let's put a huge weak tumor on top, that should balance it" @unique scaffold
regal abyss
Thank u
deft owl
@unique scaffold Bruh amx 30b has a commander cuppola in real life too. Its not like wg put it for balancing purpose.
unique scaffold
They removed the e5's and m48's cupola aswell
Also not like this is a realistic game
regal abyss
Wargaming could've not cared too because I dunno all the weeb tanks I myself am a weeb so no offense is being made
twilit crystal
again remove the amx30bs cupola and its a better m48 patton.
unique scaffold
I'm not saying 30b needs a buff I'm saying that putting huge weakspot on top of a tank is terrible and lazy way of balancing
deft owl
They removed the cuppola on based from their real life version. I didnt see any amx 30 b that didnt have a commander cuppola.
When it comes to e5 that tank is a blueprint tank and i dont know if that turret even existed in real life.
regal abyss
Just buff the credit coefficient for it make it money maker and hell give it rich guy look and call that legendary skin Money Maker
unique scaffold
🤔 😂
regal abyss
Another meme tank to the collection of memes
Plus it would be a very easy way to balance the way you have to get it
I would consider it acceptable to be in a crate if it had 10000 credit coefficient
unique scaffold
Dude what 10000% is broken
regal abyss
Not for crappy tanks
unique scaffold
It's a balnced tank
Also tier 8 premiums like Lowe with %180-ish make like ez 60k for an average battle so yea it's broken and I don't see the point of continuing this conversation
regal abyss
Yea but to get to 6 million credits it would take a hundred battles which would take 11 hours which is half a day that's kinda ridiculous
unique scaffold
I don't think you realise how big of a coeff that is
carmine spear
Who's this clown suggesting 10000% and 1000% credit coefficients
unique scaffold
Just a clown
orchid grove
@final root AMX 50 Surbaisse would be a super weird name considering "surbaisse" means "low profile". AMX 50 is "low profile" 😂
regal abyss
Clown I'm sorry but I don't think wasting half a day on this game is a good idea
orchid grove
@deft owl Real life AMX 30 has a cupola:
deft owl
Thats what i said.
teal olive
@deft owl only 60 mil? 👀 guess I’ll be putting 1K damage roles into it next time I run into one in my TDs
orchid grove
@regal abyss You do realize that a 10,000% credit coefficient means that you would earn 3,300,000 credits on a 2000 damage win at tier 10 right?
carmine spear
@orchid grove that's what the clown wants but let him keep dreaming
orchid grove
This guy is playing with decimal points like a child with a toy... ignoring the fact that just a single decimal place change literally changes the outcome by an order of magnitude
unique scaffold
How to play when everyone in my team are camping in one bush? There is no hope for win, balance is only a dream. 🤑
orchid grove
@unique scaffold I'll believe you if you have a screenshot of 6 players in one bush. Let's be real, you're exaggerating massively; and even so, you can still win, just lure or force the enemy to move into your teammates line of sight
unique scaffold
Actually I Won this battle but that was 1vs7. Sometimes RNG like me.
nimble zodiac
LOL the Löwe grabs the top damage award 🥰 I love it
regal abyss
@carmine spear can u not use insults and bother to offer an argument
Also I said cut the time it takes to make credit by %60 to %50 this isn't an open world game so it really does not need this ridiculous grind I can get so much more done in 11hrs @orchid grove
nimble zodiac
Give nubs time to learn tier IX aspects, and also to be wary of other tier Xs when they get it
regal abyss
Plus nub teams aren't helping but I guess I could just go camp in my Lowe or scorpion g and not give a damn to my wr. Did camp in my smasher was quite fun
nimble zodiac
Löwe will give you all of them creds so grind Löwe when you need some
regal abyss
Its 11 hours that with full 7 min games making 60k each game if u do all that u will make around 6 million I think.
nimble zodiac
Assume it takes 5:30 per game, since y’know, usual games end around there
regal abyss
The thing is the credit coefficient and experience making ability should be buff by %30 overall at most for all premiums except any unbalanced (t22, drac, helsing ect.) High win rates.
nimble zodiac
You want premiums to get extra bonuses to their premium bonuses?
regal abyss
No just move up their current by %30
unique scaffold
i smell a german nerf incoming... maus and e50m are the strongest tanks
regal abyss
They deserve it
nimble zodiac
Which is technically a bonus but ok
regal abyss
Tier 10s should make around 100,000 credits tier 8s should make around 300,000 credits but this should be the limit I would be ok with that
obsidian laurel
Hey any Wg staff reading this or Ribble, game is unplayable right now on NA server, everyone has been experiencing 170-200 ping. Fix your game. We have been dealing with this since Friday.
nimble zodiac
In the course of like 15 battles that’s a tier IX
grizzled sleet
Ikr
regal abyss
That's a lot of time
nimble zodiac
Meh, 2 hours tops
grizzled sleet
LOLOLOLOL, are you serious if I got 300k a game I'd have every tank I ever wanted within a week
teal olive
@unique scaffold I hope they don’t get nerfed. E50M is very strong but there’s nothing too special about it; there’s always a med that has an advantage over it somehow. And if it’s nerfed too hard then it will be pretty useless
nimble zodiac
sniff Luchs 😂
grizzled sleet
A small speed nerf wouldn't hurt
nimble zodiac
It wouldn’t be considered a real grind anymore if it is that easy to get millions of credits 😦
grizzled sleet
Like 150k from normal game would be my absolute maximum, but that's still kinda excessive
All I'd want is tier 10 to actually make some kinda credits or just break even
nimble zodiac
Which can be possible when you carry in a Löwe with prem/boosters in hand
regal abyss
Umm if I pay $50 or so I want my money's worth so yes do away with grind in terms of credits just slow down tech tree research a little by %10 to %16
nimble zodiac
Which can be possible when you carry in a Löwe with prem/boosters in hand
grizzled sleet
Lol you have no idea
regal abyss
Boosters are side gimmicks so they couldn't give us a real reward from those crates and events
grizzled sleet
Oof
grizzled sleet
What would you rather have avatars out of the crates?
nimble zodiac
If WG made Churchill GC a credit maker they would sell it again but for money
regal abyss
Do away with crates temporary gift and cosmetics and give actual rewards for being lucky
grizzled sleet
@nimble zodiac it has the highest credit coefficient of all non premiums
regal abyss
2k dmg is good enough for new players why do people shoot that down its not professional
nimble zodiac
But new player skills shouldn’t give that much
grizzled sleet
^
nimble zodiac
That’s like killing their economy when pros start doing stuff to boost their credits
regal abyss
When pros start doing around 6k dmg they'll get rewarded double also earning medal should affect the credits u earn
jade cargoBOT
Warning logged for PHANTOM_LEGOLAS [BWING]#9704. They were not warned.
jaunty pivot
U know what I think would fix most of all the issues with balancing. If the maps were bigger . It would fix almost all issues.
unique scaffold
@regal abyss
I give you 5minutes to unblock Dyno, else you will face much higher sanction
4minutes @regal abyss
grizzled sleet
Lol
regal abyss
@unique scaffold what are u talking about how do I do that
unique scaffold
you have Dynobot blocked
klick above on dyno/blitzbots icon, then go to profile and unblock
regal abyss
@unique scaffold no I don't
unique scaffold
jade cargoBOT
Warning logged for PHANTOM_LEGOLAS [BWING]#9704. They were not warned.
regal abyss
@unique scaffold
could be the problem
regal abyss
Well hey I won't curse I though that was allowed since were all adults here I'm a good guy and understand h8 of cursing
unique scaffold
no we aremt
Discord starts at age 13, so we have to think our users here are starting at age 13, hence a nearly 0 tolerance policy on slurs
nimble zodiac
Idk, I thought you were just checking past warnings of em
unique scaffold
can u maybe try to allow direct messages?
regal abyss
Umm no I got hacked once upon a time and only trust friends.
unique scaffold
and sry for the harsh tone at first, but we had many trolls blocking dyno to not get muted
thats different, getting hacked means u told someone ur password
nimble zodiac
Would you rather be taken to higher punishment perhaps?
unique scaffold
there is no database breach at discord with stolen passwords, also ignore messages that contain links and youre good to go
regal abyss
Here accept my friend request @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
thats not the point
dyno cant warn nor mute you because of the block of direct messages
which is quite similar to act as standing above moderation
nimble zodiac
Just do it Phantom or I’ll inform our clan buddies
unique scaffold
Umm..Quick questions does anyone find the T-34-3 still lack something after its recent buff?
@nimble zodiac dont minimod
@unique scaffold depends
clever void
🤣
unique scaffold
its not a regular medium like T-54, T-44, FCM 50T
regal abyss
unique scaffold
okay, ill try
jade cargoBOT
PHANTOM_LEGOLAS [BWING]#9704 has been warned.
unique scaffold
good
grizzled sleet
^
regal abyss
@unique scaffold oh what happened wargaming whole policy on not sharing the punishment to the public eye
unique scaffold
thanks for your cooperation - I have to make sure rules are enforced on everyone the same way - Hence I cant make any excuses 
I enjoyed the tank and its really fun. But I still find myself lacking too much DPM and penetration value with my AP. Alongside that,I can't really go hull down despite of my turret armor. I feel like the tank needs a bit of gun depression but it seems like its too much to ask for.
@urban whale English please
urban whale
Greek any one
unique scaffold
Well nobody sees what you are warned for - but they see you got warned. Just like ingame - you can see if someone got sanctioned and even for what
the Wargaming Support Division however is kinda secretly, yes. But I'm not part of them
remote prism
Who deleted my message?
unique scaffold
Take a hint @remote prism
distant river
@remote prism I'm sure it was purely because he dislikes you
remote prism
Probably
drowsy plaza
Follow the rules and issues don’t occur @remote prism
remote prism
?
drowsy plaza
Only the mods can delete messages here. One part of the rules is not disputing mod actions. You are free to ask general questions and comments in #off-topic-discussion This is Balance Discussion.
remote prism
Ok
twilit crystal
lll
indigo knot
About time tier 10 auto loaders to be buffed up
unique scaffold
foch: cries in corner
clever mauve
Lol @unique scaffold
deft owl
I just read the old messages and saw someone had problems about blocking dyno. Whats the deal about it? I know its off topic but i had to ask.
misty quest
They should do mm on how WR is bec i just lost of a team with 40% and i checked and i saw 4: 50%+ wr . SMH ON HOW THEY SAID THEY FIXED MM
deft owl
@misty quest Do us a favor and check pinned messages.
misty quest
What?
unique scaffold
@misty quest. This channel is intended to discuss vehicle balance. It is not intended as a place to complain about matchmaking.
misty quest
Its ‘Balanced-dicustion’ BALANCE mm is about balance 🤦🏻♂️ @unique scaffold
unique scaffold
I'm not going to have this argument. Read the pinned messages for this channel.
quick lichen
@misty quest read the pinned messages
misty quest
Oh i see, ok, i guess war gamin an devs would lison to community
misty quest
Oh ok. Sorry
quick lichen
If you want to complain about mm, pick another server
quick lichen
There’s only one thing that’s constant in every game you play. You
grizzled sleet
and the 7 minute timer
quick lichen
Either make the best of the games or don’t. Choice is yours, but don’t come here and complain looking for sympathy
rustic remnant
Hilarious
misty quest
Angry emoji* @quick lichen
deft owl
Everyone name is visible.
misty quest
Its the markings of their wr
nimble zodiac
I appreciate your effort to mark that
misty quest
Ty I takes 2min, lots of work in that. mm broken stuff the devs need to fix
indigo knot
Tier 8 tech tree tanks need buff
modern fern
lots of work
nimble zodiac
Except TDs and VK 100
dim field
- Wrong Channel. This isn't the #CryAboutMM channel
- No naming and shaming, you can shame yourself for doing 136 dmg if you want
3)Everyone gets the same bad teams since mm is random - Carry Harder.
misty quest
K, yes sir ! Angry emoji*
jade cargoBOT
France#2520 was muted
violet sonnet
nimble zodiac
Woah. That’s pertty decent
violet sonnet
We can’t include the whole player base in balancing that’s why.. ppl just play to enjoy not win (to me those 2 things are the same) but to others they just play and play with no numbers in mind
nimble zodiac
I appreciate them, also those things are terrifying in Middleburg
I’d say chill the DPM but that would be a mistake
torpid pelican
I heard autoloaders from the T57 and 50b lines from tier 8 will be buffed in couple of updates? Is that correct ? I don’t seem to find that info on this server.
unique scaffold
same?!?! when and what?
elder sigil
@misty quest
fringe summit
@violet sonnet
unique scaffold
How do i handle the dam IS?
grizzled sleet
@torpid pelican I swear to god if you get my hopes up
meager spruce
@torpid pelican @grizzled sleet
torpid pelican
@meager spruce thanks mate !
twilit crystal
@unique scaffold use the 100 mm
soft kettle
Plz buff Tortoise
grizzled sleet
^
deft owl
T57 and amx 50 b buff? Hell yeah
grizzled sleet
I'mma edit this because yay 10 minutes of waiting, a 2.5 would be nice too yes but gun handling? I've never had a problem with the gun handling
flat zephyr
It doesn't seem related but can we have more skill levels? Or more skills?
Would it break the balance😐
unique scaffold
I'd be happy with better gun handling and a 2.5 second intraclip reload.
flat zephyr
Any opinions on new skills or more levels of them? I have maxed them all up and gathered so much xp I can instantly upgrade them to higher levels if they come.
Also why the cooldown of sending messages is 10 minutes??
grizzled sleet
I'd love to see more skills but have 0 ideas, yes can we get a mod to fix this, 10 minutes too much
royal oak
Only wg staff can change it
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold English please
dusky oxide
Why does the mk6 suddenly do better but 121B's performance has dropped?
unique scaffold
@grizzled sleet y buff grille 15?
quick violet
Cuz it needs it
royal oak
Camo buff pls.
tepid quest
tt
gray aspen
grizzled sleet
So I bought back the M103, and um can we get a buff to this. This tank is after a year of improvement (when I was a 52%er) is still the worst tank in the game
meager spruce
So you want to buff any tank you want? Sure, I want a Ke Ni otsu buff and a WZ120ft buff. It doesn't work like that
drifting tiger
Buff the grille pls
wispy tiger
Hi
viscid warren
Buff nashorn stock gun
drowsy plaza
M103 doesn’t need any buffs.
fiery turtle
@soft kettle
Yes, the Tortoise would really benefit from an additional 2 rounds per minute - taking its DPM from 3,250 to 4,050 (without rammer or provisions.) This would be the new highest DPM of any Tier IX TD.
The Tortoise deserves this extra DPM because it is very slow, the armour isn't great, and the gun penetration is nothing special. Giving it higher DPM would at least enable it to burn down anything in front of it (provided it penetrates, of course.)
unique scaffold
@fiery turtle only armour buff..if buff dpm they will get broken..
soft kettle
@fiery turtle why don't give it slightly ammor buff? At least buff it's machine gun port
brazen flare
Guys
fiery turtle
@unique scaffold :
The SU-122-54 has 3,754 DPM right now (without rammer or provisions) - that's 500 more than the Tortoise, on a gun that has 20 more alpha damage per shot. And the SU-122-54 has the speed of a medium tank, meaning it can relocate to another flank 3 times as fast, and get out of trouble 3 times as fast as the lumbering Tortoise. Plus its camo rating is over twice as good as the Tortoise, so it's much harder to spot.
The Tortoise is a bad joke right now compared to the SU-122-54. Having better armour isn't enough to compensate for its shortcomings. A 800 buff to DPM would level the playing field.
glacial orbit
They should remove the Red/Grey and make it like the up-coming game mode where you have to remember the locations of weak spots. Then the British Tank Destroyers would be more effective.
unique scaffold
I agree
dusky oxide
Su-122-54 and Tort have very different playstyles. Furthermore theres a differnece in how much dpm a tank has and how much it can use effectively.
soft kettle
@fiery turtle More DPM to Tortoise is not useful at all since it still can't survive long, even tier 8 lts can pen it easily
flat zephyr
Past tier6 👌
I couldn't agree more. Also they can start it from tier 10 and then extend it to tier6 maybe.
Also I must say again, I think more skills or skill levels are good to be introduced as the last of them was introduced way before and lots of exp is gathered till now for players with great battle numbers
soft kettle
In fact su-122-54 and tortoise is not comparable since two different kinds of tanks. Su-122-54 sacrifice it's ammor and get speed and dpm, while Tortoise sacrifice it's speed a lot and gain not reliable ammor and dpm. Tortoise dpm is ok now but it's ammor is terrible when against Tier X tanks
magic topaz
@grizzled sleet lol the m103 its fine, no buff is needed. lol again. almost all tier 9 tanks are well balanced... except for the kpf70 gun
unique scaffold
@fiery turtle look. Only what u must know to use HE! Dpm is verry high.
fiery turtle
@unique scaffold :
Sure, but look at the penetration. Not good enough to get through frontal armour of most targets. And the Tortoise isn't great at flanking for a side shot.
dusky oxide
Tort is usually versing heavies head on since its a thickly armored support tank and you suggest us to use HE primarily?
unique scaffold
You must know how to use it. Against tier IX its easy play with tort. Tier 8 eat it. But higer tier u will struggle
flat zephyr
You will struggle anyways in a tort.
I would like to add t95 to tort but it is better that tort at least. It is nerfed to ground but still better than tort
fiery turtle
@soft kettle :
Buffing the Tortoise's armour is pointless, because we all know that WG won't buff the armour on the cupola, for obvious reasons. (Ref: recent T95 armour NERF.) And Tier X guns are very accurate and can hit that big cupola easily. Making the rest of the armour almost redundant for practical purposes.
soft kettle
T95's cupola is small and it can withstand some hits even from Tier X guns but Tortoise is totally different. Every opponents can pen it's machine gun port and it's definitely not small. On the other hand, the front ammor of tortoise also can't compare with T95 since they are terribly weak but T95 have a big non penetratable gun shield.
So the problem of Tortoise is poor armoured with terrible speed when T95 still have pretty ok armour with terrible speed.
spiral gulch
Well about crew skills, if they added some class specific skills, like +1%view range per level for lights only, +1% crew performance when an allied tank is within 50m for heavies only...ecx, I think that would be cool
unique scaffold
oh
iron estuary
Hi
violet sonnet
Profile of Tort is wayy too big and wayy to soft ... Gun isnt snappy for its speed. (Same can be said about t95 but its profile protects it better for being low to ground)
tort with better gun stats would do fine...
Also dont forget what type of players go thru Tort. (Many did afk grind the XP on it for 183)
Task of tort is busting the frontlines imo so Assault TD shouldn’t have a tumor that big and that easy to hit + decent gun doesn’t cut it
remote pumice
I'm just here with a tier 8 tank, and people talking about the tortoise and T95
odd girder
well
mystic gorge
Is there any consideration for the grille getting a slight buff to statistics such as concealment?
woven spruce
Can shell prices for jpanther 2's L/52 be cheaper, im losing credits almost every game.😢
carmine shadow
T95 needs it’s old lower plate back.
drowsy plaza
@mystic gorge honestly I can live with the camo as it is at if it got better gun depression and bloom.
grizzled sleet
Lol yes please buff grille just got spotted by T54 from 250m away
golden kraken
You should be able to accelerate crew training just like in WoT when having all modules could you implement that?
mystic gorge
@drowsy plaza don’t get me wrong I do just fine in the tank, but I think it needs just a little more to work with
drowsy plaza
@mystic gorge I agree with you. But before a camo buff, I’d prefer more usable gun stats.
grizzled sleet
Lol the gun is super aids, absolutely horrible dispersion on the move
drowsy plaza
My Grille style isn’t peek-a-boom, it’s peak-a-miss-curse.
elfin heath
1: The Grille isn't supposed to fire on the move 2: It needs a camo-buff, that's it
grizzled sleet
Lol when the slightest move destroys my chance to hit someone, there is a problem
distant river
Grille should follow on from the WT as an aggressive TD, but it is the complete opposite which kinda sucks. Buffing the camo would just make it even more "wrong" and so a traverse speed and bloom buff would make it great, but maybe the turret traverse would have to be nerfed slightly to accommodate it
mystic gorge
Grille tried to be everything the WT is but fails
clever void
It didn’t fail. It was nerfed into the ground after it was too successful
unique scaffold
Can the HE for T49 be cheaper,or one more HE ammo type with less pen maybe 65 but cheaper
lucid jetty
Give the grill gun arc 90 deg and better gun depression solves all problems.
dusky oxide
The common playstyle I see for the WT cant in any way be described as 'aggressive'
soft kettle
Plz give some armour to AT7
grizzled sleet
@dusky oxidethe playstyle for the players that are good in it are aggressive though
fast aurora
T32 could use a bit of love too
elfin heath
FV4202 needs some turret armor love. Decent tank otherwise.
hollow shell
The nashorn needs a gun buff, the tank is absolute garbage, like damage or aim time or dispersion not reload tho
elfin vine
If you want more damage you have to wait longer🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
mild kindle
Am I the only one who feels WZ-121 needs some love and get like a little alpha increase? Like from 400 to 420, as 400 and 350 alpha has really little difference if RNG decides to screw with you when you are trading with other MTs, and IS4 also have a 122 but have 420 alpha. (though stats wise it seems okay.......)
hollow shell
Is it just me or does the 183 feel like it does way less damage compared to the pc version, granted they do have more hp but still
Will 6.0 be released within the next week or few days, not yes or no, pick one pls or just say later than that @unique scaffold
hollow shell
Well rumors are typically somewhat right, plus wg just publicly announced the new British TDs, and they already announced the new highlighting system and ammo rack animation
mild kindle
@hollow shell the 183 has lowered alpha compared to PC (1750 to 1300) so it doesnt one shot as often(if it ever) and yeah, but it still hurts
flat bane
Give m103 more side armor, even t7s can pen it when it's side scraping.
flat bane
51mm at t9? For a heavy? XDDD that's a joke right?
grizzled sleet
Lol give it a mobility buff, for being on the heavium side of the spectrum it sure moves like a heavy, slow and crappy
flat bane
Buff it's armor and keep the mobility, or buff it's mobility and keep the armor.
grizzled sleet
Mobility
nimble zodiac
The mega-big turret exists you know
flat bane
The turret is too big with no armor xd
unique scaffold
nimble zodiac
?
humble spear
Flex?
nimble zodiac
Also M103’s turret has good armor, you just shouldn’t expect all tier Xs to bounce it, you gotta wiggle it around, even then, not much armor would still make it very heavy for the size, keeping it slow
outer nimbus
Wt>grille not because grille is underpowered but because wt is broken
flat bane
The m103s turret is pen-able even when moving around. It's only good at range. Luckily the gun is on m1 is awesome, and can hit weak spots from a far easily.
teal olive
Lmao how is WT broken @outer nimbus
harsh ravine
The Conqueror is gonna be an inferior Conway if the Conway using the 120mm
granite mural
I hate slow mode
dusky oxide
@grizzled sleet so like 5-10% of its players?
orchid grove
@flat bane Actually M103's side armor is pretty decent for sidescraping, better than most tier 9 heavies. Even though it's only 51mm thick, that's enough to prevent a triple overmatch by everything other than JP E-100 and 183. But the critical piece that makes M103 side armor decent is that the eggshell hull shape means that the sides are very well angled underneath the tracks, which is enough to cause AP and APCR shells to ricochet even at shallower angles; and the tracks cover most of the sides protecting it from HEAT.
lucid jetty
Chaffee's engine really needs a buff.
fringe summit
Funny, I played 1 battle in the Chaffee and got 9300 WN8. Never played it after that anymore lol
fiery turtle
@mild kindle :
"the 183 has lowered alpha compared to PC (1750 to 1300) so it doesn't one shot as often(if it ever) and yeah, but it still hurts"
IMO the 183 should do 1.5 times as much alpha damage, and the reload should take 3 times as long.
lucid jetty
Its tier has been changed to tier 6 in upgrade 5.5 but it is still using a tier 4 engine. It is really hard to play when got a vk28 chasing you across the whole map. Even a hellcat can catch you. It does not feel like a light tank with proper mobility.
fringe summit
And thats why you should see it as a fast heavy tank😏
mild kindle
@fiery turtle uh what?
1950 HESH alpha damage yeah seems about right. Perfectly fine. No one will complain or like question the fact that just that one guy camping at the back of the team was able to deal 4k damage because he managed to do two shots and thats it
unique scaffold
Chaffee never was about speed in blitz. You need to stick close to your team to prevent being yolo attacked.
humble spear
That's just gonna make it even worse and around 10 times more annoying
grave quarry
Why does E100 have better pen than Maus?
The 12.8 is supposed to have the penetration advantage and 15 the alpha and DPM
TL;DR E100 is still in its overbuffed state
grave bear
chaffee is an Amazing tank
@grave quarry because maus has a gun mounted on tier 9 heavy tank with worst pen out of all tier IX heavies and e100 has its own tier X only gun?
e100 excluding amx 50b and t57 heavy has the worst turret armor, plus the worst accuracy, how can it be over buffed??? it's also the slowest tier X heavy! (yes, maus is faster than e100, it has just less top speed)
lucid jetty
@unique scaffold What you said applies to all weak tanks. What we need to buff is to buff the weak tanks but not to buff the "coward" playstyle. By the way, staying with teammates you will still get yoloed.
unique scaffold
I don't see the Chaffee as weak.
You have good view range so you don't need to scout out as far.
obtuse rover
Put 90 mm on elc
fiery turtle
@mild kindle :
"1950 HESH alpha damage yeah seems about right. Perfectly fine. No one will complain or like question the fact that just that one guy camping at the back of the team was able to deal 4k damage because he managed to do two shots and that's it"
But since it would take the Death Star a full minute to reload its gun, its DPM will actually be cut in half. Meaning it would never be able to carry a game, and would be massively dependent on its team to protect it during its agonizingly slow reload.
grave quarry
E100 is actually better in almost every way
olive socket
@unique scaffold
lucid jetty
@unique scaffold 290.4 is the standard view range for most tier 6 lights. In fact some autoloader tier 6 lights have higher view range. So there is nothing special. In general, I can say for any team, if you swap their vk/amx/mt25... for chaffee, the chance of winning will drop. That is what we should do about the balance. The issue is not about how to overcome the shortcoming of mobility but how mobility will affect the balance.
mild kindle
@fiery turtle that will only make people hate the tank more, that high shot alpha and the fact on how useless it is for basically half of the game. You are just making it a pure burden to the team, and only useful once against enemies, a role it was never meant to be and no tank should be.
Lets be honest, the WG balancing department is more useful than this.
fiery turtle
@mild kindle :
"You are just making it a pure burden to the team"
That's the whole idea - make the 183 really, really unpopular.
unique scaffold
Balance is a series of compromises. Compare the tier VI lights on tank compare. What the Chaffee lacks in mobility it makes up in DPM and gun performance.
humble spear
@fiery turtle Sure, the tank will be absolute garbage. You're forgetting the fact that for many it makes the tank ten times more attractive. The ability to nuke someone for close to 2k damage is just pure novelty, and can be a gigantic annoyance at times.
lucid jetty
What really matters is this. If you say the gun makes up for the mobility, then no, it is not enough. Also from the graph the t37 is the worst now. (T21 deleted type64 premium)
unique scaffold
I think it is. I found the Chaffee very enjoyable to play
lucid jetty
If Chaffee is balanced then you will feel more enjoyable.
unique scaffold
English please @olive socket
grave pier
@grave quarry
Maus has better armor than the e100....
warm pewter
Well, according to the graphics, there’s is no AMX 30 B information. Which in my opinion should be. This tank was sold for crates and actually it needs to be buffed.
Why?
- It has Less armor than its Tier IX counterpart: AMX 30 1er Prot. Those 150mm on turret and 80mm (I might be wrong) create such a difference when HullDown comes to the game.
- Reload time. Reload is 7.4 with CS and 6.7~ with Rammer. It has STB’s similar pen numbers and -10 degrees of GD.
Compared to the STB, E50M, Patton; it turns out this tank has the slowest reload of among the last mentioned.
I understand the “Balance” factor. But it’s huge cupola is just enough for it to be balanced. - It was a crate tank. Ik crate tanks shouldn’t be OP, but they also shouldn’t be under the average. When it came out a lot of ppl were using it. Right now there’s almost nobody.
grave quarry
@grave pier debatable
Maus has the raw armour and better turret (when angled)
E100 has way better sides and upper plate
Gold is pretty much autopen on both turrets
Maus can't look at the enemy and bounce, while E100 has better chances of doing that
grave pier
Wtf bro....
Armor of the e100 suck si hard.
Better side (120mm vs 185mm and 150mm vs 210mm in the side of the turret) and the turret is not flate like e100.
1 vs 1 , maus vs e100, maus will win.
Ez
Trust me
86% wr with maus, he is so OP.
The armor justifies everything.
It's like comparing an e3 and a jge100.
outer nimbus
@teal olive its got 10deg gun depression, fully rotatable turret, bs camo value and decent mobility. The only thing its missing is armour but with that camo u dont really get spotted often. My entire clan agrees its the closest thing blitz will have to a tier 11
drowsy plaza
@grave quarry enough of the Maus arguments. It has the highest avg WR of all Tier X across all regions.
grave quarry
I know lol
But E100 does a better job at being consistent at clubbing randoms
lunar niche
E100 actually has better side armour. 120mm side hull is covered by 60mm sloped spaced armour.
dry shore
Test slowmode
unique scaffold
when is 6.0 gonna be dropped
fringe summit
Never mwhuhhahaha
iron lynx
4th of June iirc
ivory fractal
Nothing to do with balance....
flat bane
@orchid grove no it is not xDD where did you even get this from?
fiery turtle
@drowsy plaza :
"@grave quarry enough of the Maus arguments. It has the highest avg WR of all Tier X across all regions."
Exactly.
Give the Maus the E-100's engine (550 less horsepower) and lets see how good it is then!
deft owl
Maus is 188 tonnes while e100 130 tonnes why would they give the same engine?
fiery turtle
The Maus never had an engine with more than 1,200 hp historically, and maximum design speed was 20 kph, not 25.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-german-prototypes/panzer_maus.php
quick lichen
@fiery turtle the Dracula never existed. What are you trying to get at? This is an arcade game. Not a simulator
orchid grove
@flat bane this is an M103 angled at 65 degrees against a Conqueror. Note that the side plate is indeed angled, and will produce a ricochet
mystic gorge
@fiery turtle the 183 has a low winrate at tier 10 for a reason. The tank doesn’t fit into blitz. It produces stale and unproductive gameplay and ruins the rhythm of tier 10. It would be better to remove it entirely. Sure, there is the rare occasion a 183 player is productive and moving up with the team. But most of the time it’s kids sitting in the back that wait half the game to get a couple shots off. It is not good for the game whatsoever
twilit crystal
Whats wrong with the amx30b reload? Its literally 6.6 on my stb vs 6.7
civic summit
nothing wrong really u expect the fact the 30 b has great mobility so the gun can't have to much of a reload or its just another t62a or 140 so increasing the reload but also giving it some comparisons to Leo 1 is what the goal was
twilit crystal
why does having good mobility mean it has to have another good thing?
civic summit
mate if its has super good mobility and a great gun what stops it from being a pay to win tank what stops it from being "OP'
deft owl
Because there is no such rule that says tanks with mobility cant have good gun or armor.
meager spruce
bruh, I would much prefer to have mediums on my team
quick lichen
@late zephyr take about 4 seconds and read the pinned messages for this channel
clever void
@meager spruce ya but if the drivers are (newish) then I want the heavys
unique scaffold
Amx 30b must be nerf..armor to 20 hull and turret. We need more paper tank
teal olive
@quick lichen once the 30B gets that dpm that you want back, the Leo 1 will become obsolete
fiery flame
I have the amx30b so I’m a bit lost here, it’s seems perfectly fine to me with it’s dpm and accuracy
drowsy plaza
I played the Rev3 version with 2862 ish DPM. The 30B road to balance had been long. The current version is the 5th take at it. It’s tough to balance and not totally obsolete a tech tree NATO med.
indigo knot
The best way to balance 30b would be giving it high pen nos both on gold and standard shells so there is no need of calibrated shells.....I don't have one but really think that if it is given buff then Leo1 will be obsolete
drowsy plaza
It doesn’t need Leo DPM numbers- and that would be broken While 3,250 with rammer would be nice. - but then it kind of runs into the STB. Honestly 3,200 and rework cupola would be better
wintry gale
i got problem wg
modest lotus
Bet wgs would nerf the leo before buffing the 30b. I agree that uping the pen would be great but I think it would be a bit overly op at that point
deft owl
30b needs no buff. You want more dpm? Play with something else then.
civic summit
There's your issue we already have high dpm tanks at t10 and it's like you're begging for more mate lol 30b is special to what it is great turret and works for what it is
flat zephyr
I would be happy with only cupola rework. Its so big. Also the turret itself is pennable. The tank may not underperform for now but it will definitely be weaker in charts after it is released more in game
quick lichen
People that buy it on the first release always try to stat pad with it. I agree it’ll be weaker over time
void mortar
30b doesnt need that high dpm. Its good mobility make it great to relocate and get crossfire like batchat. Its not brawler medium
quick lichen
Sure but 250 mm of apcr pen isn’t enough
So you run calibrated and it ruins the dpm further
void mortar
Thats true. Only thing reasonable to do is give abit better pen. I still like that tank its like lightium
orchid grove
I’d prefer that WG erred on the side of making 30B underpowered than overpowered to be honest. Crate tanks at tier X don’t need to be competitive
indigo knot
Its better to see a crate tank that's like a tech tree rather than seeing a tank that blatantly OP (T22) otherwise tier 10 will be p2w just like tier 8
fiery flame
Amx30b is balanced as far as I am concerned
plain jetty
t44 needs a buff badly, legit can't grind it its so underpowered
ocean rover
@plain jetty EMBRACE IT!!! its actually quite decent if u find how it suppose to be used
flat bane
@orchid grove that never happens in game, no matter how much you angle, you will get penned.
teal olive
The chieftain Mk. 6 and 30B aren’t very competitive which is fine... but as far as I’m concerned. The T22 is the best of the Soviet meds and is very competitive
potent talon
The JgPz IV needs it's traverse back
shrewd kiln
No it doesn't, Lmao. It's still OP with that DPM, mobility and even useable armor.
potent talon
How many people have a 7 kill in one
humble spear
@potent talon How does that accurately represent how good a tank is in the slightest? It's an amazing sealclubber tank and needs no buffs at all
sour fox
I will say jg pz 4 is ok yes it need atleast slower reloud but nothing else
low path
Does someone have access to the relative winrates for Smasher, WZ FT and Obj 252U? Pretty sure they completely broke tier 6 to 9 with those - playing tech tree tanks is so not fun anymore and tourneys consist of 4 or more Obj 252U teams...
void mortar
And how about 8tier tournaments with those op sealclub tanks? Not fun to anyone there
indigo knot
I was also playing tournaments and saw 252u wzft and 112-2 only..... some t49 cdc german bulldog and ru..... It sucks when they nerfed Vk100 to hell and brought 252u
finite notch
Kpfpz70 penetration needs to be buffed, I bounced 8 shots with the front of my FOCH and rekted the kpfpz70
indigo knot
Kpf needs actually a reload buff....560 alpha roll low most of the time and it has no armour like e75 st1 vk45....a decent turret with weak spots....it needs dpm...
Pen nos on derp guns are always low
quartz steeple
252 u is pay to win
stuck venture
how long until 6.0 is released roughly in days?
safe canopy
Ok rip tier 8
stuck venture
Dang boi
dusky oxide
They know its state, thats why its sold olny for 2 days and at a high price
torn cliff
Y O L O
solid current
120 worth the buy?
gilded pivot
At that price no... But if u want an op tank... Yes
unique scaffold
@solid current definitely
devs please please introduce some restrictions on tourney team comp. like ban too many of the same tanks on one team. it makes for more diverse team play. and also match smaller teams with smaller teams too. like if the team has 6 people match it up against another 6 person team. this will greatly increase the fun factor and diversity in tourneys
@solid current i would buy it, but my mobile SIM card allows only 10€ at time, I wish I could use gold to get the tank
onyx fiber
OMG wg why you selling this bot op tank again wtf
torn cliff
WZ 120-1 G FT is in stores for 55$. Simply the best pay 2 win tank in the game that can still be bought and cannot be nerfed. If this sounds like a complain, it is .cause no one else is going to complain
humble spear
Prem tanks can be nerfed. It's stated in the EULA
hazy lichen
Having just bought the WZ120, I still hope they nerf it
cunning kindle
Keep hoping
torn cliff
@humble spear lies, Never happned @unique scaffold That's WOT PC
@unique scaffold Lmafao
ancient zinc
Wz 120 still good for guys who dont play td?
unique scaffold
Type 59 on PC got a big nerf years ago @torn cliff my T10 stats are nice so I'm not a bot
@ancient zinc definitely since it's more affective when played aggressively
@dusky oxide no no no it got nerfed badly before the fancy graphics
dusky oxide
Type 59 on pc is a different deal. Wg is clearly selling the wz more carefully as its only in store for 2 days and for a high price. And the type 59 was nerfed when they chamged the model to HD and then after it was powercrept for years they recently buffed it to be a bit op again
fiery flame
@torn cliff read the EULA for blitz, they can still nerf any tank they want. They can also delete your account without any reason and you can’t do anything about it. People just blindly agree to it without reading and then complain about things which they agreed to. Also I think the tier 8 T34 is getting a nerf in update 6.0
cunning kindle
@ancient zinc i hate tds and i dont even play it anymore
It might have something to do with the fact that i hate playing tier 8 in any tank
torn cliff
@fiery flame I know that WG can nerf buff/nerf premium tanks, but they don't do it because the customers who bought tank will get upset and rage upon them. They cannot delete my account without any reason. Tier 8 T34 is getting a nerf, this is the first time I'm seeing them nerfing prems. Their are also many other broken overpowered tanks that are also needs to fixed. I do not agree blindly ok
How to beat slowmode 101. 😂
cunning kindle
I honestly dont care what they sell at t8 and the tiers below anymore
As long as they dont ruin t10 and t9 i m good
Cough cough dont sell t22 again plox
10 mins of slownode
Wut is this
quick crown
@torn cliff sees the death of club penguin due to extreme pay to win and stale content...
thin condor
Ok so let me get this straight the T34 is being nerfed and now one of the most broken TD"s is being sold again. Like wargaming come on science told us we evolved from monkeys not the other way around but maybe some people up at wargaming are going back in that evolution table. Also change my mind the wz-120-1G FT isn't broken.
torn cliff
Lmfao this is so true ^^^
thin condor
starting to see why WarThunder is becoming more popular
fast aurora
not even sure if they're seeing this
unique scaffold
I'm ripping apart the next troll who says buff WZ, I have a friend who bought it and says it's garbage.
Gun with the american T53A1 pen (T34 and M6 EXP have it), with 2/3 of the reload time, traverse which rivals a med or light tank, if not superior to them, armor of the T-54 mod 1 without the weak engine to transport it. Nearly nobody can win against it 1 Vs 1, and personally I always defeated it when it was already engaged in trading shots with someone. It's almost the perfect tank. I just hope to purchase it at a fair price in gold in next Blitz Fair.
quick lichen
@torn cliff technically it’s an armor rework since the tank stats aren’t actually being touched
The t34 was strong beforehand
It’ll still be strong
deft owl
Fun fact: with t34 rework turret cheeks will be stronger actually.
quick lichen
People that are freaking out over the $50 price are funny and forget blitz monetization history. The Type 59 was sold for $50 and $70 originally and it’s a good tank. The Dracula and Helsing were sold for 20,000 gold ($60) and those are over powered tanks. Now the WZ 120-1G FT is being sold for $50 and it’s very over powered and people are saying it’s over priced 😂
thorn dagger
And yet we still keep buying crate tanks. Oh we got for 7.99 a crate, but how much will you spend to get said tank?
shrewd kiln
But crates have that gambling factor, that's probably a reason why some people do it anyways.
quick lichen
Doesn’t matter
The crate probability is said in the description
I forget how the specific % is calculated but if you have a 10% drop chance, you need to buy more than 5 crates to have a 50% chance
unique scaffold
There is difference between price in gold and money
quick lichen
7 crates at 10% = 52.17% chance you’ll get the tank
civic summit
Morning @quick lichen
quick lichen
Hi
lament vessel
Its a fair price for a super op premium imo...
unique scaffold
I just wish they'd give the choice to buy some tanks with both methods at the same time, money or equivalent in gold
thorn dagger
Its more than fair imo. I mean look at the last sale. We got the 112-2 and the 111 for sale together at the price of this one tank and the 112-2 is a good tank. Sure its a copy and paste but it was sold for a very reasonable price. And if the 111 is not for you you can sell it
unique scaffold
English please @elder dove
quick lichen
@unique scaffold is imagine they don’t sell certain tanks for gold because if some players already have gold they don’t make as much on it at that time
I would imagine selling the tank for money gives them a much better idea on supply and demand
Or more so cost and demand
fringe summit
Yay I got pinned, even pantouflee finds THE Wz OP. It should be nerfed...
meager spruce
@fringe summit have you seriously liked your worn comment 😂
thin condor
Yep so all the cough Pramo cough people can go buff their ratings
clever void
As in a on topic comment. Its OP
distant river
@quick lichen it completely depends on your perspective. If you are looking at its value for how OP it is then its a great offer, if you are simply looking at spendinv money on a free mobile game then it is very overpriced 🤷
quick lichen
@thin condor you’re more than happy to see what tanks we play
I played 90%+ in ratings in tier x
So that comment doesn’t really apply
meager spruce
@quick lichen How dare you forget about the all mighty Ke Ni Otsu and say that Wz1201 gft is arguable the best tank in the game?
unique scaffold
T3 is boring
quick lichen
Because 99% of Keni owners are in the 5k battle queue
And everyone knows to tunnel them
And they get penned by tier 2s
Og t82 and the br7 arty counter the Keni
You can’t play tier 3 ratings or tournaments either
unique scaffold
Cough
quick lichen
You’d upset hundreds of paying customers if not thousands
thin condor
My point exactly they have little to no chance of beating one in a stock tier 8
iron hearth
Funny fact when i bought the wz last year i didnt expect nothing special from it i just liked it because i love the su 122-44
violet sonnet
middle finger to those with stock tanks at Tier 8 ... Wz1Foot, like other t8 OP tanks, does tip the balance scales but also makes balance problem even more "fun" . at least you can pen the sides of this one unlike 252U. so YAY
rustic fossil
@quick lichen i would argue that paying $50 for and Op tank makes more sense than paying $18 for a mediocre tank in the same Tier, especially if you have already similar tanks in your garage.
unique scaffold
@quick lichen may i ask you a question about a message i Posted here getting deleted?
quick lichen
Oh I’m 100% on board that the wz being a steal right now
Honestly that’s the problem with tier 8 though @agile solar
The WHOLE tier is a power creep nightmare
2014-2015 you could double is6 platoon for 75-80%
Then the is3d was far better
twilit crystal
the fact that ratings exist with wz 120s is absurd
quick lichen
Then the is5
Now it’s the 112-2 and 252u
Now there are several very mediocre tier 8 tech tree tanks like the tiger 2
In almost every way, the lowe is better
Chrysler k compared to the vk 45.02 a
It’s too bad
There’s an easy reason why it continues
They make money
As much as everyone wants balanced tanks and tiers, wg still needs to make money
unique scaffold
I buy premiums not because they're balanced, but because they're op. I'm pretty sure others think the same way and this is just the hard truth ¯_(ツ)_/¯
It's true. Premium tanks used to be less competitive than their standard counterparts. But over the years, WG, as a company, grew, so their income must also grow
Fortnite is dying tho
quick lichen
The thing is that they never needed to be
Is-6 had preferential mm and had less pen than the is3
There were ways of balancing the premiums as -.5 tier
Wg does use cosmetics as money makers but it’s far less successful than the tanks
I’m very up to date on fortnite. They could roll out a battle pass for blitz where tier 50 is a tier 8 premium. Sprinkle in some camos, boosters, credits, free xp, a little gold and maybe once every 10 levels you throw in a tier 6 and below premium
Sell it for 5k gold for the premium blitz pass
There’s ways to do it
grizzled sleet
Tbh I'd be fine with it if they charged money to play the game, but that's the most unlikely thing ever
twilit crystal
mind you like the hillarious part of the 120 is the fact that its sold for more than the original cost.
unique scaffold
Tbh, WG has been a lot more cautious lately. It took them a lot of time to release obj 252u, while Mauebreher has yet to be released. Now, if you were to compare our version of 252 to the one from PC, you'll see it's heavily nerfed. This shows WG has a sense of 'balance', but they also choose to not use it to the full extent
unique scaffold
Only way to guarantee a 60%er on your team is to be the 60%er. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ @austere plank.
Also read the pinned messages. This isn't the place to complain about MM.
This is not the place to discuss Matchmaking.
clever void
The charioteer will do a lot to lvl the playing field and may well power creep a lot of the tanks we consider OP if it remains as it is. Of course we will see soon
twilit crystal
tbh nah. It won't really rekt IS tanks/ wz 120.s. Its just gonna rekt fat german side armor
quick lichen
@agile solar world of warships legends (console) introduced a battle pass for the Atlanta so there’s hope
unique scaffold
Hi
twilit crystal
there's a reason I almost avoid tier 8 these days. Sure t10 has problems but no where near 8
clever void
Tier 8 is still awesome to grind credits. Type 59 gets me 80k a game in grinding mode
deft owl
This cant be happening. Seriously wg? 350 turkish liras.
quick lichen
@deft owl what currency is that?
humble spear
Turkish iira?
quick lichen
What’s that roughly in euros?
fiery flame
53
deft owl
I dont care its price. Why the heck are they selling this overpowered piece of crap again?
quick lichen
To pay staff for the next 2-3 months?
unique scaffold
Oof
dim field
Just bought it. Expensive but ...
unique scaffold
Broken af
drowsy plaza
Balanced by 3 on each side 🤪
deft owl
@quick lichen Was that a sarcasm?
quick lichen
@deft owl yes although it’s a possible realism
patent quiver
@deft owl Regarding the pricing of WZ, I feel you. It looks so expensive yet it is such a sleek beauty don’t you think so? If you are going to fake me then at least pay attention to changing profile pics ever so often dumbass.
stoic light
@dim field ok thanks, I see it as 50$ but was wondering if it was a glitch
dim field
It's $50 in the US but $62.50 usa dollars for EU.
If i read right
thorn dagger
Wanna know how to beat a Wz120gFT? Aim. Its a turretless tank. Shoot the tracks and circle not hard. Its not OP. Just get good.
@distant river im as average as it gets mate
woven hazel
ehm well than you never met a good player in the wz 😂😂😅 I have 80%wr in it and thats a high wr for tier 8
@distant river agree
distant river
So you are just going to permatrack it and hope it doesnt actually get some shots on you? Anyway it doesnt matter if competent people can beat it, it matters if the average player can beat it @thorn dagger
grave pier
It' a t8, not t10.....
thorn dagger
Lets compare it to how it is sold on PC. Go look in the PC store and see how much it is sold for. I bet you its just slightly less because this one comes with equipment already mounted.
deft owl
@thorn dagger "Its not op". Yes totally.
drowsy plaza
Not OP 🤪. Compared the the tech tree FT - which was over performing for tier 8 TD’s.
atomic hound
Better camo than borsig.
iron hearth
I have my own way to counter these things and its the skorpion ez pen 👌 😂
drowsy plaza
Skorpion and T49 are great counters if your a good player - but lots of low 50%-high 40% folks are rocking significantly out of scale results in the 120 FT.
Using its max -6 GD. Against a Löwe with APCR
unique scaffold
Shoot the lower plate lol
safe canopy
if you're using gun depression lower plate is hidden, cant shoot something thats hidden
drowsy plaza
Almost 290mm effective armor at Max GD — without the 4% armor add on. Even the Skorpion’s APCR is marginal then. 301.6mm with the armor 4%. Not broken at tier 8..👌
Then combine that with the mobility and DPM.
twilit crystal
and penetration and decent alpha
fiery flame
In other words, pls nerf this tank
dusky oxide
"just aim" he says :D
twilit crystal
yeah just aim at a tank thats like 2 feet tall and traverses at 60 degrees
sick crow
I think 152mm derp guns tend to be the best weapon vs the wz120
grizzled sleet
Lol the ISU is the WZ buster
proud willow
Hey
warm badger
Ку
nimble zodiac
WZ doesn’t threaten me in my Löwe, literally shoot the weak spots, don’t fight a fighter if they have an advantage
wet quail
Wz is balanced
unique scaffold
@wet quail
lol
dusky oxide
When you choose to not fight a tank you havent countered it. It still chews through your team.
ripe oasis
You know a tank is op when a 40% can demolish a team despite the lack of skill
unique scaffold
The smasher and 252U need to be nerfed.
nimble zodiac
Why are you complaining about a tank having armor, also Smasher is an SU-152 with a turret, y u mad
warm sigil
idk bout u
dusky oxide
Guys my kv220t is balanced because as a tank, it should have armor.
grizzled sleet
Smasher does need a nerf, but a small mobility nerf with a dispersion on the move nerf
drowsy plaza
@nimble zodiac any semi non braindead player will eat a Löwe soonest in a WZ FT
mystic gorge
@grizzled sleet u my sir r everything I stand for #buffgrille
grizzled sleet
Lol
violet sonnet
#buffGrille indeed. while you at it... pls bring some researchable tank sales back
lucid jetty
Should setup a discord channel for proposals #buff-grille
tardy bridge
Hey anyone want to play?
unique scaffold
teal olive
Why
modern fern
God the contrast
unique scaffold
What’s your thoughts on the Kpfpz 70? No doubt it’s likely been previously talked about on here.
unique scaffold
I'm looking forward to the new Update 6.0 impatiently
unique scaffold
Will strongholds ever come to blitz?
graceful copper
when i see Kruup
fiery turtle
IMO the Grille should receive a 25% buff to its camo rating, in exchange for a 25 horsepower engine nerf (giving it the Panther I's top engine).
It needs good camo more than it needs good acceleration.
dusky oxide
25% is a lot don't you think?
cunning vapor
Grille is supposed to be fast.... Nerf its camo but increase its engine power
quick lichen
How can you nerf something that doesn’t exist @cunning vapor ?
fiery turtle
The Grille has a camo rating that is twice as bad as the Waffentrager Pz.IV. (Until just after it fires, then it's 6 times as bad.)
Yes, the Grille is taller than the Waffentrager Pz.IV - but having a camo rating that's twice as bad is a bit much, don't you think? It's not twice as tall as the Waffentrager, is it?
A 25 horsepower nerf to the engine will take it from 760 horsepower to 735 horsepower (this is without any equipment or provisions). This is a 3% nerf. And top speed will be the same, only acceleration rate (effective hp/ton) will be slightly nerfed.
cunning vapor
Thats why I said nerf camo... Its already too bad, it cant get worse lol
Edit : No editzz
quick lichen
The grille is supposed to be fast so it can reposition
The camo is worthless when the grille starts getting flushed out anyways
One shot and it’ll get lit up
The grille needs to get a small camo buff and a traverse buff
The bloom is already awful so shooting on the move isn’t an option and it has very poor penetration
Actually. The grille has the WORST ap pen, second worst premium pen and the worst bloom while moving
Combine that with the lowest hp pool in tier x and paper armor that gets he’d by everything
lunar niche
Its a letdown from WT. Grille's speed and gun is nice but everything else is worse.
grizzled sleet
Lol if I'mma have the most useless camo they better give me the mobility of the 101
solar trellis
Haaaaaaaa legal! Bom saber que todo mundo só fala ingreiz nessa bagaça.....
clever void
If grille had 101 traverse it would be very OP
queen mason
If the black prince didn’t have that 3 second reload it would be balanced.
rustic fossil
@queen mason I don’t see the BP much in T7 games. it is too slow to make an impact in many situations. Tiger P is much better imo, probably the best tech tree tank in T7.
Premiums always do better than comparative tech tree tanks. look at IS2 vs IS WR a 3% difference. anything more than this differential can be attributed to the tank not difference in population.
quick lichen
It’s 35/54 tanks
What’s not balanced about that lol
The dpm is useless if it isn’t in the right spot and has to drive somewhere at 18 kph
How do people not grasp this about slow moving high dpm tanks?
strong condor
BP is balanced. Remember tier 7 heavies before huge buffs? They were absolutely horrible compared to same tier meds or lights
quick lichen
Exactly
The heavies were literally free damage
The black prince is also 35/54 in terms of damage per battle
grizzled sleet
I wouldnt mind seeing a small reload nerf to tiger p tho, like .5 wouldn't kill it
cunning vapor
But why tho... Why nerf completely balanced tanks.
rustic fossil
If anything, tech tree T7 meds need a buff. Driving them feels like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
quick lichen
T-43 is still really good
grizzled sleet
I just feel that the tiger 1 and p should have some kind of gun difference besides GD
twilit crystal
uh mobility and turret armor?
queen mason
Funny how Smasher and Lupus are up their, and I was joking but couldn’t say so because I have this 10 minute chat delay that’s longer than usual..
atomic hound
What's the point in a balance discussion at all? Wg has shown us time and time again that they're pretty incapable of balancing tanks without lots of trial and error anyway, and for a large portion of the tanks in the game (the premiums) balance isn't even a priority.
I bought myself a wz-120-1G FT, and can say that there is no way on hell's earth that this level of OP wasn't deliberate. You don't just make a tank like that by accident, no way. Better camo than borsig, great acceleration, mad traverse, goes 20kph backwards, easily pens anything it meets, great DPM, enough gun depression to work most hills, tiny profile, and ridiculous armour when used right.
Its sole 'weakness' is its low hp pool, even though for a TD it's kinda standard.
All of this in combination let's it fill any role at all. Stay at range and use the decent accuracy, great camo, and good pen to act like a TD, take a position on a ridge and bounce for days like a heavy, or go help the meds. It does literally anything you ask of it.
deft willow
I agree
deft owl
@atomic hound Wg consider it as a balanced tank. Just like how they consider obj 268 v4 as balanced on wot pc.
atomic hound
If you're right then wg is incredibly incompetent, and obviously hasn't got anyone working on balance who actually plays the game. Since I don't personally believe this is the case, I'd hazard a guess that this balance discussion exists at least in part to attempt to convince the people that care about actual balance that wg shares this interest, which unsurmountable evidence shows isn't the case at all. Since I'm already wearing a tin hat at this point, I'd say that wg only has people working balance to keep the premiums better then the rest of the tanks, so as to maximize sales. The irritating thing is that this will only kill their game, so while causing a large profit in the short term, it'll drive off the customers as they grow wise to it, see the pc version. @deft owl
flat zephyr
T95e2 needs buff for its armor. Hull armor absolutely trash, turret armor absolutely trash, maneuverability quite bad, gun is not special, and it is the exact same tank as 59-patton but underperforming in any way possible. If it's meant to differ from 59patton fine, remove the cupola its turret is easy pen without the cupola.
The buff could be used in armor, maneuver or just make the gun OP cause the other parts are not good at all
humble spear
it took wargaming 112 days to nerf the Obj 268 v4
the object 430U was nerfed after somewhere around a year after its initial release despite it blatantly being so much better than other Tier X MTs, completely tossing outclassing the 121
rustic fossil
Re the WZ120 - WG is going for $$$$ and throwing the balance out the window. It’s as simple as that. WG knows exactly what they are doing. The fact that you now see plenty in T8 confirms that it’s working. LT it will destroy the game, but then again, we are almost 5 years in and everything has a lifecycle.
clever void
In order make premium tanks sought after they will obviously have a unique edge to them. Once they over power them to much then they are forced to keep buffing tech trees to make the game playable. I’d hate to think this will end up with products we call “end game” as where does the buffing end
unique scaffold
If 5k players buy this wz for 60$ they will have for half years wages, or more..nice job WG!
clever void
they dont think this way.... they have a ceo that needs 10 mil a year salary
dusky oxide
I mean, I don't think theres as much discussion like this on the RU server. And I have the feeling that tanks would be even more unbalanced if the community didn't share their views on the matter.
white pebble
Will you add an option to exit the 'asses player behaviour' without sending anything. I accidentally clicked 'inactivity' when I had no praises left, forcing me to give that player a bad review. Please add a way to close this window without sending the assessment.
indigo knot
Military honour should be removed from game
unique scaffold
Now why would you want that @indigo knot #general-blitz-discussion
drowsy plaza
@white pebble wrong room. See #general-blitz-discussion
unique scaffold
World of noob
twilit crystal
and @unique scaffold how is that balance?
unique scaffold
When is update 6.0 rolling out?
ivory fractal
When are people going to use the correct channels? @unique scaffold, the answer to yours question is soon. Just use the correct channel next time please.
distant river
Idea for making kpf competitive again: buff AP pen and add AP prammo like su100y, so it has 640 alpha but same pen as AP has now. Any thoughts?
fiery flame
Nah it’s fine as it is
unique scaffold
@ivory fractal Sorry about that. My phone display is damaged and I can't see half of the screen correctly.
teal olive
@quick lichen @rustic fossil T7 meds are actually pretty decent, but they flop when having to face big OP tier eight heavies. But tier 8 mediums face the same issue... and they go against tier nines aswell... with the same dpm as the tier sevens (for some reason)
jaunty pivot
At some point when technology gets better (if its not already) and the servers are fixed they should make the maps bigger bc then this would fix a number of balance issues with tanks.
Make 1 big change to fix lots of little things.
wet quail
Tier 8 is already full of op premiums, one more doesn’t hurt
white pebble
What do you think of the vk 100.01 P? I think it deserves a slight dps buff, since with its current dps it often takes over a minute of constant shooting to take down any opponent you face. This isn't compensated by its speed or turn speed either. Although it does have good armor on most of the front, this is also easily bypassed by shooting at the commanders hatch or the lower plates.
tame wharf
the vk still can bounce most shells if you have ever tried "wiggling"
wet quail
Don’t buff it, was nerfed to a decent state
drowsy plaza
Needs more HP for me to farm.
dim field
Probably just buff it's armor to how it used to be.
white pebble
@dim field How was its armor used to be? I only played with its current state.
crystal spoke
It was stronger but still had weakpoints
dim field
I don't remember the exact amount
queen mason
The T-44 kinda needs a turret buff imo, wiggling the turret is an option but you still get penned easily.
sullen vault
id say its completely fine where its at
nimble zodiac
When mediums need armor buff
rancid flame
T-44 has been completely power creeped. Type 59 is better in basically every way, the mod 1 has even better armor, and the 34-2/3 has the superior 122mm. I feel like it needs something just not sure what
silent drum
I just got the t7 combat car back
sullen vault
t44 has not at all been completely powercreeped,type 59 is also not at all better in every way.The t44 is far more versatile than the 59,not to mention its turret armor is enough to bounce equal tier and a few higher tier shots for whats it worth.big difference between mod 1 so im not going there and the 122mm has always been bad,its common sense not to use it.I played it during current meta and its doing completely fine for a tech tree tank that(might be wrong)hasnt been changed for a good amount of years unlike others.
olive hawk
I'm sorry did you just say "superior 122"
smoky yoke
122mm on the t-34-2/t-34-3 is better on those tanks than the t-44 with half the dpm, think the T-44 has like 1,400 dpm @olive hawk
slate meadow
i dont think balancing is needed yet. should fix the driving issues that players get, even when ping is low.
clever void
@sullen vault the turret on the t44 is pened by most premium ammo. In comparison to the type 59 the t44 sucks. But it has some pros. Like the speed is better,and the gun. I’m certain I could do well in it as a finesse driver will prefer gun handling and speed over armour
smoky yoke
T-44 still good non-premium tank, it is just little worse than the type 59
sullen vault
T44 was never truly about turret armor until recently with pc where they buffed it.Yea sure you can say by most prem ammo but thats also the fact that its prem ammo.T44 is in the same situation as its bigger brother Obj.140,Very versatile and its armor can withstand many shots of equal tier but shouldnt be heavily relied on say like 62a,or ee50m or in this case-the type 59.
twin egret
rip old T-44 turret shape
snow merlin
Make T49 great again
teal olive
It’s pretty meh right now
hidden stream
Hey I came here to say we should get a reward for the bug bc I’m getting rlly mad rn
sullen vault
T44 doesnt need anything major if you're willing to buff it, but i say its fine as is.Just play the tank correctly and u will have no problem 🤷
fringe summit
Why would people play a T44 if you can play: T44-100, T54 ltwt, T54 mod 1, Type 59, T-34-3 etc. T44 is just not what it is anymore
humble spear
the T-44-100 is a crappy T-44. Also the T-44 is pretty different from all of those tanks lol
twin egret
T-44-100 is slightly better T-44, it has spaced armor
twilit crystal
lol no. It has only 5 degrees of depression compared to 7 and its like 25% less mobile and it has 50 less hp
humble spear
^^^^ it has a hp/t ratio that is 5 lower than the T-44
twin egret
huh
summer mortar
I remember a time when prems were worse than their equal tier counter parts and were used ONLY to make money, not all this stat padding nonsense that everyone seems to like
unique scaffold
Premiums should be better
unique scaffold
Imagine buying a Lowe but it's worse than Tiger II, sure you'd buy it
Or paying 50€ for a wz 120ft when it's tech tree counterpart (wz111 1g) is better
unique scaffold
Nope I wouldn't buy
mild kindle
adding jap heavies
hi sir, the glue factory is right there, you wanna go back home?
wet quail
😂
mild kindle
it seems to me that someone deleted their message
drowsy plaza
Löwe got two buffs past reasonable. Most of the Premium credit grinders had +1/-2 Pref MM back in the days of +/-2. Others made up for it with competitive guns (T34/Löwe). The entire point of Premiums wasn’t stat padding - it was credit grinding. Selling OP premiums removes the incentive to grind tech tree lines. It’s beyond dumb and ruins the game.
true wedge
Lowe isnt even really OP though
indigo knot
Lowe is a bit too good
The only thing holding it back is top speed
Even the traverse is so good on such a big tank....many meds can't even circle it
grave bear
lowe is one of the best tier 8 heavies
true wedge
its balanced enough imo
quick lichen
@unique scaffold imagine not having tournaments to give out millions of credits at a time. All of a sudden, the lowe making 70k+ a game starts making a lot of sense for 7600 gold
The lowe isn’t balanced because it’s better than a tiger 2 in almost every way
rustic fossil
@unique scaffold Early on, the Lowe was worse than the Tiger 2. The Lowe was buffed, 3 timesI think to get where it is right now.
atomic hound
If the tiger 2 got a reasonable armour buff it'd be on par with the löwe, it does have a large mobility advantage to compensate for the worse gun
drowsy plaza
@rustic fossil Löwe has been buffed 5 times since 2014
Last two where totally uncalled for.
quick lichen
There shouldn’t need to be a reason to buff tech tree tanks. Slowly premiums have gone from -.5 tier to +.5 - +1 tier
The wz op td could be a tier 9 if it had more hp
cobalt crane
it literally could
quick lichen
Power creep is the biggest issue in the game. Premiums are the biggest form of this. Is-6 -> is-3D -> is5 -> wz-112-2 -> obj 252u
That’s the quick lineage of “op russian heavies”
Basically each reign for a few months to a year before something just a little better comes along
echo solar
I wonder when the British tank destroyers will come in game. ._.
wet quail
Little less hostility?
indigo knot
Personally I like wz112-2 than 252u.....
Its similar to Is4
versed night
Ofc cause then all rush to buy the newest IS3 modification
summer mist
this is official, i stop playing the T28 for ever, because this tank HAS NOTHING. and I know it will never be BUFF
deft owl
T-44 does not need any buff. It already has third highest average winrate in tier 8 meds.
quick lichen
@deft owl no one looks at stats when complaining
The T-44-100 is better comments were funny
grave bear
true
t44 100 has also worse turret shape
torn cliff
Power creep continues --->>> IS 3A
quick lichen
Someone said the other day that the black prince is too strong
It’s 35/54 on wr and damage
😂
Pretty average
teal olive
It rips other heavies apart easily. So if the other team is stupid enough to rush at you, it’s very much overpowered. But if they don’t do that, then good luck getting to them with your 18km top speed.
quick lichen
Exactly. Situationally strong. Otherwise irrelevant
dusky oxide
So tanks that also formerly had perf mm like the type 59 which has a bad gun should receive a buff?
teal olive
Uhhhh no. It seems that its pen is really one of its only problems. From what I’ve seen, it outperforms other mediums.
grave bear
type59 bad gun?
it's like t54 mod1's one, slightly less accurate but with more AP pen., plus 7 degrees gun dep
true wedge
i can knock out a Black Prince with a Tiger P easily who is even saying black prince is op
twilit crystal
20 kmh is way too inflexible. Tiger P has the mobility to actually use the gun. Uh yeah type 59 has bad pen. @quick lichen 59 has 181 but its still pretty bad
dusky oxide
@teal olive exactly although its the aim time that its lacking. Someone was talking about the löwe being buffed just because it used to have pref mm.
sullen vault
Type59 has bad pen?lmao what?
fast aurora
175 is fine for a med in t8. You have the mobility to compensate
dusky oxide
It has 182 if i remember correctly, and most other t8 t54 variants have 175. I'd rather have the t34-3's gun even with that low dpm.
atomic hound
T34-3s gun is miles better in my experience, since you can run refined gun to get the accuracy down to acceptable levels, and the aim time is still crazy fast. The type 59 is still the better tank though, the t34-3 is sluggish and has worse armour, especially the sides which are only 50mm. 5° gun depression sucks hard too.
high pumice
The first thing we need rn is a tortoise armor buff
mellow cape
The 252U literally has an upper plate which bounces 380mm HEAT shells.. it could literally be a tier 10 with better stats and a smaller lower plate.
atomic hound
Nah, it just needs the hatch completely removed, and another 5kph top speed imo. The hull armour is ok once angled and on a ridge, but that hatch is ridiculous, huge, completely vulnerable to hesh (hello new British TDs), and can be hit before you can even point your gun at the enemy because of how high up it is. 20kph is also another kick in the face. Even if they buffed the armour, big TDs would still butter it (like everything else) so give a higher top speed, and maybe also reverse speed.
The tort, not the 252u (though it should be obvious)
dusky oxide
@atomic hound the sluggishness is really what takes so much joy out of playing it. Versing is-5s gets frusturating after a while when theres tanks like it in every battle. T-34-3 just has none of that great versatility the type has. If I want to play a tank that has a 122mm and a t-54 esque hull at tier 8, ill just rather play an su-101 or the wz and commit to more of a td playstyle.
drowsy plaza
T-34-3 is still > T-34-2
atomic hound
There is no true t54 at tier 8, the type 59 comes closest, but the gun has much worse DPM tier for tier, and trashy gun handling.
T34-3 is only better than the t34-2 because you can't HE it from the front tbh
drowsy plaza
The problem with those tanks or if some clown runs a 122mm on the T-44, if the maps are fairly small that if you don’t have team support you can be run over and DPM’d to death.
high pumice
It does need an armor buff because the tank is meant to have good armor like the entire AT series, the hatch isn't much of a problem unlike the easily penned frontal armor because of it's big gun arc
high pumice
The hull armor doesn't bounce most shots even when angled
I'm not saying the hull should be impenetrable but it should at least should need premium ammunition to be penned when angled because hiding the massive ass hatch is already tough
elfin heath
If you're relying on armor on a medium tank, you're playing it wrong. Not to say a little armor buff here and there wouldn't hurt, but the t-44 is a pretty solid tank as it is. I'm sure with the RNG buff coming in 6.0, all of these suggestions will become a moot point. I have a feeling the buff will be too much and things will pen that didn't before, making armor feel less effective.
charred bobcat
If you're not relying on armor on a medium tank, then you're playing it wrong. Why did the 140 get a turret nerf? Mediums usually rely on using turret armor and gun depression to hide their weak hulls while shooting.
twilit crystal
E50m MEMES
quick lichen
Certainly some mediums can rely on turret armor but there are plenty that can’t
teal olive
Tanks such as the E50M and the FV4202 rely on their upper plates to bait shots instead of their weaker turrets. It’s different for every med.
queen mason
T-44 has some insane mobility and decent speed but the armor of which it’s supposed to have in the turret is weak. The type 59’s turret armor and T-34-3 for example has enough turret armor to block ru 251’s AP shells and most tier 8 heavy AP shells but the T-44 doesn’t have that. Instead the T-44 has weak spots all over the turret. But the T-44 can still get bounces with a slight wiggle and luck and skill. But I still think it should get a turret buff.
quick lichen
Insane mobility?
fringe summit
Hmm, for some reason I always bounce on the E50Ms turret
Indeed, the T44 is actually a pretty fast medium but very underrated. It should get a buff to its gun I think
quick lichen
Maybe if you’re comparing it to a 50% crew t28
grizzled sleet
The E50 has a very strong turret that's either penned with RNG or being very close
wet quail
E50m has a very good turret
summer mortar
I like how everyone defends the t44 for having a bad turret when the entire russian med line is built around having god turrets, the t34 has a good turret at tier 5, the t 34 85 also has a good turret, the t 43 has a good turret, the t 44 has a pretty eh turret, the t 54 is self explanatory, and the 140 and 62 a have pretty decent turrets
mate the 54 mod 1 is has a better turret than the 44
grizzled sleet
The T44s turret is meh like the T54 mod 1
mystic gorge
E50m and T57 r my next tanks
dusky oxide
I really hope they dont overdo it with the buffs to the t57
lucid valley
T57 getting a buff?
grizzled sleet
Yes
supple thistle
The T54 mod 1 and ltwt are literally the T44 but better
grizzled sleet
@teal olive yes they are buffing the 50b and T57 lines for tier 8 and up. @deft owl the buffs they're getting is unknown
teal olive
@deft owl Maybe... tbh I think they 50B May rise above the 57 when they’re both buffed.
deft owl
İntra clip buff?
dry condor
This is unbalanced matchmaking
deft owl
@dry condor Read pinned messages.
twilit crystal
it57 will be getting a buff. and the amx 50b is already better than the 57 heavy by a long shot
shrewd kiln
Press X to doubt
twilit crystal
the buff? WG said autoloaders are being buffed again. Also any pro/tourney player/unicum agrees the amx 50b is better. Theres a reason why players like @quick lichen and @orchid grove use the amx in profs but you never see a t57