#tank-balance-discussion | WoT Blitz Official | Page 119

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:27 PM

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again other people paid 15k gold for it so WG should offer the maximum price they sold for it back.

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:28 PM

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What makes you think that? @twilit crystal

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:28 PM

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@coarse harness whats your point? Wg should give out tanks in events like that more often.

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:28 PM

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its not legal rights but people are gonna be mad if they touch the kpf and not even give a proper refund

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:28 PM

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Thry have no obligation whatsoever to the people that bought it, maybe people should see the 5k gold as a way to get back gold from a tank they dislike

lunar niche Feb 28, 2019, 5:28 PM

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5k gold selling it lmao. I spent like £48 for it. Not gonna sell it though.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:29 PM

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You could get the removed tanks for free too and sell them for 26k too.

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:29 PM

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The point is they could get 15K gold for free if that happens what unicum said

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:29 PM

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@twilit crystal who says they will touch the kpf?

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:30 PM

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They making it a collector which means it can be nerfed and in that scenario they should offer the maximum price people paid for it.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:30 PM

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What 15? Its 5. Like i said, you could get free gold by buying the removed tech tree tanks and selling them after the update. @coarse harness

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:31 PM

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@twilit crystal it can be nerfed alreay, WG just dont to keep the playerbase happy

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:31 PM

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📎 IMG_20190228_183140.jpg

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:31 PM

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You could get a scavenger or gravedigger and sell it for gold. Same situation. What makes it wrong?

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:32 PM

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You can sell them, but not for full price

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 5:32 PM

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Every can be nerfed, even premiums. Changing the status to collector doesn’t allow WG to nerf it as they were already able to do so

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:32 PM

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The wotb post fb publification says 5k gold @coarse harness

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:33 PM

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I was surprised by WG's genoristy with the tech tree tanks but the low tier premium collectors were worth the price they were sold for. The kpf was not sold for 5k gold

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:33 PM

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Im not saying i trust that post but we are in a discussion where we presume its true.

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:33 PM

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So what? I guess you have many battles in it... @twilit crystal

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You dont see WG refunding every prem theyve sold for the same ammount people bought it for?

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:34 PM

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@unique scaffold it makes it easier becase people have to option to be compensated. So a collector tank will always be more prone to get a nerf compared to a premium

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:35 PM

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Nobody said it's fake just @twilit crystal want a full price refund

lunar niche Feb 28, 2019, 5:35 PM

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5K gold is very less for a tank sold for 15k gold though.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 5:35 PM

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Good point here but I don’t think KpfPz 70 will get a nerf. It was already not that good

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:35 PM

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they never mentioned it was gonna be nerfed when it first came out but now they enplace a nerf policy for it and dont offer the full 15k refund

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:36 PM

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Oh no, you expected it to stay exactly the same forever?

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:36 PM

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@coarse harness i say its fake. For what reason would they change it to a collector but not do the same for the other enriched tanks. The only reason i can come up is an event but giving it away as a non-collector didnt cause any problems.

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 5:37 PM

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@twilit crystal why do you want a full refund anyway?

lunar niche Feb 28, 2019, 5:37 PM

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It was sold as an enriched tank irc.

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 5:37 PM

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Enriched tanks didnt have a nerf policy back then FYI afaik. That was the 1st encirched

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:38 PM

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WG made all the *new tier 9, 10 prems collector

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:38 PM

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So thats the reason. They want to cover their bases.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 5:38 PM

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Chieftain Mk6 became collector ?

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:39 PM

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Not yet😬

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:40 PM

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If thats the reason, i find the urge to have a 'fair' way to nerf t9 tanks weird when theres tanks like the wz1201gft at one tier lower that wg has no intention to nerf.

coarse harness Feb 28, 2019, 5:44 PM

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You mean they should do the same in T8 where are more prems than tech tree tanks ?

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 5:45 PM

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Everyone is asking for a T28 HTC buff so I’ll go with them. Not sure of what to buff though

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 5:46 PM

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@coarse harness sure i want t8 to be balanced, who wouldnt? Too bad its just a pipedream.

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Though i dont think that by giving a vehicle collector status is going to make it balanced.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 6:02 PM

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121B, M60, Mk6, AMX 30 1st Prot., K-91 collectors soon, I expect, we'll see if WG is coherent

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 6:05 PM

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they should make the wz 120 a collector worth a certain amount of gold(prob like 13k) and nerf it

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 6:10 PM

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@unique scaffold yes, unless wg just made kpz a collector to make it less of a big deal that they want to be able to nerf it if they have to. I dont think theres a way they couldve made it a rebalanceable enriched vehicle from an enriched vehicle with no such option.

smoky yoke Feb 28, 2019, 7:14 PM

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Problem they gonna have is that they selling those tanks ridiculously high. Makin them get even a bigger backlash for whatever they do.

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Gone are the days of selling tanks , at 7-9k gold other than the old premiums.

fringe briar Feb 28, 2019, 7:44 PM

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I complained about the wargaming making the predator and vindicator collectible tanks when they had been premiums. Mostly pushback from other players. I warned that they would inevitably do this with higher tier tanks. People claim there is no difference. If there was no difference the change would not be needed. Clearly they have a scheme unknown to us and to me, changing a premium to a collector degrades the tank. No premium tank has ever had a disclaimer that its status as a premium can be changed to a collector tank only that some tanks like the chieftain or 121b can be rebalanced. If people spend money to buy a premium wargaming should not then change their designation to something otherwise.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 7:51 PM

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Totally agreed

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Kpfpz received a buff some updates ago, and it was a premium tank. That means if they want to rebalance it, it's surely a nerf they want to do, and I can't tolerate such a thing on a tank which requires good skills to maneuver and is not easy to use as it is now, because of many castrated aspects. With a nerf it would be destroyed. In any case I will not shop any more from wargaming.

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I've said this 100 times and I'm sure I'll say it 100 more.

You do not own anything in "your" garage. When you buy a premium, enriched, or collectible tank you are purchasing entertainment. It's no different than going to the movie. It is on you to get your entertainment value from your purchase. What you purchased can be changed at any time. This is part of the EULA that every single one of us agreed to before we started playing.

Will I be bummed if they nerf my favorite premium? Of course, but I knew that was a possibility when I bought them. It is on you to get your money's worth from your purchase.

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Sure, but I notice lack of coherence from WG in not converting also other enriched tanks to collector status. At least they should explain why they choose that particular tank, and if they don't do that, that's more a reason to not buy any more from them

fringe briar Feb 28, 2019, 8:05 PM

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I don't own the tank, but there is an implied understanding that if I buy a premium tank, it is a premium tank.

As someone who use to spend a nice amount of money every week, I have not purchased any tanks since the the vindi, predator, and kuro were demoted. Today, I was about to purchase 37k gold to free xp some tanks. But the reemergence of the modus operandi of wargaming has once again deterred me. I hope that they can conclude that people do not want to spend money on premiums only to have them converted to collector tanks. It might be legal, but it is not right.

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:09 PM

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Seems like they are taking tanks related to events and making those collector tanks

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:09 PM

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My thinking is WG will have some problems after the update about this thing. With this way to operate, every premium is not sure of mantaining its status. Many Kpfpz owners will think like me and that will have a domino effect for sure

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:17 PM

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My thinking is worry about nerfs or actual changes when they're announced. No sense driving oneself into paranoia about a storm when the sky is still clear.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:22 PM

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I suppose you'd do the same if you bought a premium 20€ tank and then it gets converted to collector status for rebalancing purposes (future nerf, otherwise collector status isn't needed, premium can only be buffed). I just want rules to be clear from the start, not changing when you already gave them money.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:25 PM

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think positive. wg is not caring of their buyers, balancing premium tanks and losing entrances for that.
means the game is not dying and doesnt need to do fanbase things

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:25 PM

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The rules haven't changed. They've always been able to change vehicles as they choose.
I've spent quite a lot on this game.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Will you tell me then if they change the status of some premium tanks you own this won't disappoint you?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Premium tank means having a tank that only skilled players/buyers can have,and also a tank that can help you a lot in making credite. it shouldn't mean having a super unbalanced tank that is stronger than regular one.
there are some super broken premium tanks.
i would be only a Cow disappointing the balance for that op premium tank only because i own it. balancing means making it fair. not making it useless.

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:27 PM

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They have and I'm not disappointed

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:28 PM

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@dim field ok then, fair enough

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:29 PM

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If they want to nerf/rebalance a tank and I don't agree with the nerf/balance then I'll complain about the nerf/change. Changing the color of my tank and giving me the ability to sell it for gold doesn't bother me

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:30 PM

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Maybe KPF 70 is a bad tier IX that needs a buff but wg dont want to, so they gave you the chance to sell it.

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 8:30 PM

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@unique scaffold do we have a legal right? no but its still a bad move.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:30 PM

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@dim field I wish indeed it will be just that. I simply wonder why they had to change the status, if they want to make kpfpz stay as it is

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:30 PM

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there are plenty of premium tanks turned into collector and they keep ALL the stats.

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 8:31 PM

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the b2 is being nerfed fyi

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 8:31 PM

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Kv220t lulw

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:31 PM

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i dont care of the broken seal clubbers' tanks. nerf op tanks = fair.
im sure that kpf 70 doesnt need a nerf. if they nerf it i'll be disappointing because it would be bad, not because "Omf dont touch prem tanks¡!!¡!!"

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 8:32 PM

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Kpfpz is far from OP, and needs actually a buff. They should make collector the WZ 120 1G FT instead imo, for a little nerf

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:33 PM

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wz 120 is also balanced, you need to drive it.

dim field Feb 28, 2019, 8:33 PM

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They created a new category and have been filling it with removed tech tree tanks and tanks related to event. I'm unsure as to why some older premium tanks were made to becone collectors as i don't recall them being event related but can't do much about it.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 8:34 PM

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obviusly wz 120 ft is not a bad tank, is a bit better than some other tanks, like MANy other tiers 8.
you cant have all the tanks at the same strongness level. and also that would be boring.

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WZ 120 FT is very good against super low pen tiers 8 such as T44, t54 mod1 etc, but against heavies it's armor is like non existent. and has less mobility than su101, worse gun accuracy, and worse gold pen by far.

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 9:30 PM

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thats totally why players have 3k dmg per game in a tier 8 yet I was one of the best players in the 50 100 and it got butchered

tawny cosmos Feb 28, 2019, 9:35 PM

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There should be match making based off of skill

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 9:36 PM

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Rating battles?

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 9:37 PM

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@tawny cosmos
A. No.
B. Read the pinned messages. This is not the place for MM discussion.

lost sinew Feb 28, 2019, 9:47 PM

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@grave bear about your comment that premium tanks should be for skilled players/buyers.... if that only was true. New players should be grinding low tiers for 2-4K battles after tutorial to learn the game and maps and not get baited into getting smashed in tier 7/8 battle. There should be a cap of battles to be able to drive higher tiers tanks but that would actually imply greater care for player base instead of revenue.

📎 image0.png

distant river Feb 28, 2019, 9:50 PM

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I bought the lowe in a half price sale whem i was at tier 6. I played a couple of games but realised that i wasnt good enough, so i didnt play it for ages. There is no point suggesting putting a cap on buying prems because fistly WG wont do it, and seconly it will hurt players who want to get better but arent great atm

late crow Feb 28, 2019, 9:53 PM

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The info button on my Chieftain mk6 implies it’s a premium and not just “enriched”. So why does the recent news call it enriched?

📎 image0.png

stuck hamlet Feb 28, 2019, 9:54 PM

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thx wg 😕

📎 Screenshot_19.png

late crow Feb 28, 2019, 9:54 PM

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Seems like they’re pulling a fast one. It doesn’t need balancing.

tawny cosmos Feb 28, 2019, 9:55 PM

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Whoops wrong chat my bad

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:09 PM

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@grave bear are you implying the wz1201gft is somewhat balanced? Because we will all prove you wrong.

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 10:10 PM

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^^

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 10:12 PM

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@tawny cosmos go to #rating-battles

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:28 PM

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@lost sinew as i said, prem tanks are for skilled players(that get tanks from events)/ for buyers (that get tanks by paying developers) . i said nothing about skills of players that buy prem tanks.

late crow Feb 28, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Premium tanks are for the people who have premium tanks!!!

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:35 PM

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@dusky oxide i think there are more unbalanced tiers 8. i said it's surely better than the average tier 8, but that's only because public matches are full of bots that get baited by every fast tank with good dpm. wz 120 ft has good armor? you can pen it everywhere with 200mm+ pen, gold or standard, every tier 8 excluding T49 can reach that pen. but yeah, let's nerf it, as Vk 100, just because their strong points are very good against noobs, that are thr majority of the players.
. (with this i'm saying that overall players stats on a specific tank is totally useless)
tanks should be balanced by comparing skilled player vs skilled one, not terrible player vs terrible player

perfect example below ↓↓
take 2 40%ers. for them IS-7 is the best tier X and needs thousands of nerfs, just cause they cant aim and its armor is self-bouncy

then take 2 65%ers. for them IS-7 is probably one of the worst tier X and needs at least a small buff.

late crow Feb 28, 2019, 10:38 PM

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Overall tank statistics is the best way to see which tanks need balancing. HOW they should be balanced depends on what WG wants the tank to do.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:39 PM

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Where is this place youre talking about where only unicums can roam? Ive never experienced such mode in blitz. And what comes to the wz, it does well against any type of player, just compare it to a su-101. Its the same type of tank but 15% better and on easy mode. No need to struggle with the gun arc or gun depression. The small gap in mobility really wont matter when everything else is far superior. @grave bear

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:40 PM

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su101 isnt the same as wz 120 ft. please.
exactly.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:40 PM

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Youre telling us the two arent similar?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:41 PM

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omg! similar shape, similar gun alpha, similar mobilty! = same tank

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:41 PM

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Both are high alpha t10 guns on a mobile chassis with enough armor to bounce meds.

Oh, you just proved my point, thx

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:42 PM

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meh.... really?
im done

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:42 PM

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Whats this more unbalanced t8 that does well in both a less experienced players hands and a unicums ones youre talking about?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:43 PM

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Su101 can do more things than wz 120, wz120 can do better the less things it does. fine.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:43 PM

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What are these things su-101 can do more of?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:44 PM

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umh, it has better accuracy and the highest gold pen at tier 8, it can snipe without problems, also has way better superstructure armor with a trollish gun mantlet
also bit higher alpha dmg

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and the best tier 8 tank destroyer mobility

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WZ 120 has better dpm and one plated armor, Better than su101's hull but worse than its superstructure, and also has better gun arc/depression.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:46 PM

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Higher accuracy wont really matter if you have to aim in for so much longer than on the wz. Wz is a premium so spamming prammo wont hurt it a bit.

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I think it speaks for itself.

📎 5.4_-_tier_8-1__01.png

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:47 PM

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Im sorry but if you're camping the aiming time doesnt matters.
the thing of prammo spam is meaningledd, please delete that
as i said before, these overall stats are useless.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:48 PM

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Why would i delete that? Of course a premium tank owner can apply premium rounds more generously.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:48 PM

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Lmao, shooting prammo means doing less damage
if you think spamming prammo can let you win easier, we can stop talking right now

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:48 PM

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And aiming time always matters. Its not a tank you sit in a bush with all game.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:49 PM

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i said, aiming time Doesnt matter when you're sniping. really you cant say it's wrong.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:49 PM

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If you think that giving the wz less pen makes it balanced, youre being absurd. It has a way better aim time, 14% more pen and the gun is so much easier to get on target because of the aim arc and gd.

smoky yoke Feb 28, 2019, 10:50 PM

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Wargaming should have gave out refunds to everyone and rebalanced the tank , they made a oppsy and they continued to sell the tanks. It's those idiots that are beta testers that keep breaking wargaming rules on testing their tanks and making leaks of the tank so wargaming can't really test out the tank without letting the community know.

📎 wargaming_messed_up.PNG

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:50 PM

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my skills let me having no troubles with su101's gun arc. but for 40ers isnt the same, so yeah, unbalanced

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:50 PM

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What youre saying about aiming time doesnt work in practice. You dont sit in one place for the entirety of a game.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:51 PM

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i said for camping, can you read??
you dont have 30 hours aiming time, once you positioned it's ended

undone harbor Feb 28, 2019, 10:51 PM

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WZ is OP. Too high DPM and too trollish armour, you can miss a lot of shots on it..

📎 Schermata_2019-02-28_alle_23.50.29.jpg

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:52 PM

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@grave bear mine either. I like those things about the su because it makes is quirky and once you learn to hide those disadvantages, it does great. Too bad the wz does way better and requires half the effort.

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@grave bear are you telling us you only camp in your su?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:53 PM

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oh my god

undone harbor Feb 28, 2019, 10:53 PM

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but still I don't wargaming to nerf it. they made it like that and I am ok with that, I don't own the tank, but still I don't like the idea of premium tanks being nerfed. that's not what players bought, they pay for the exact stats the tank has when they buy it

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:53 PM

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Not a very good strat for such a mobile tank.. @grave bear

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:54 PM

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so, @dusky oxide easier to play = better? ...
guys is7 is the best tier X 😎 👏 👏

unique scaffold Feb 28, 2019, 10:54 PM

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@undone harboryou don't say, that's what I thought, until I discover they probably wanna rebalance my Kpfpz 70 revoking its premium status, and I BOUGHT IT FOR THAT

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 10:54 PM

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@grave bear Wz has better armor, ALOT more dpm, better gun handlings all for slightly less pen and mobility. Wz is op. Just like helsing and dracula.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:55 PM

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2500 dpm vs 2900 isnt a lot, and the best tier 8 gold pen vs average gold pen isnt slightly
for my Tiger II wz 120 ft is penetrable everywhere, while i need to aim su101 or 'ill hit gun mantlet

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:56 PM

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@grave bear not only easier to play. The amx m4 is easier to play and better for new players but what the wz offers is something even an experienced player can put to use to the fullest

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:56 PM

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if wz 120 ft isnt going against meds, its armor is useless

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Gold pen isnt really matters since 310 pen is enough in nearly every situtation.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:57 PM

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Why would you choose to play the inferior version?

📎 Screenshot_20190301-005512__01.jpg

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:57 PM

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what are u talking about pururut lol

undone harbor Feb 28, 2019, 10:57 PM

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@unique scaffold yeah, I heard that and I am very disappointed as you are. You buy something reading the stats and everything and then wargaming wakes up saying "I want to change it"... this is not fair and if they do that with one of my premiums, I will stop buying for sure

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 10:58 PM

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@grave bear You are practically saying "Dont nerf my op tank". Cut it out everyone knows the fact.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:58 PM

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@dusky oxide wz 120 ft is useless at long range
@deft owl i dont own wz 120 ft
(tried in a friend's acc)

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 10:58 PM

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@grave bear a higher armor value is never useless. Remember youre playing it in public matches, not a unicum battle arena

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@grave bear it has the same dispersion, as you can see.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 10:59 PM

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i said it's useless against tanks that have enough pen to go trough it, because it's penetrable everywhere
@dusky oxide load gold shell

twilit crystal Feb 28, 2019, 10:59 PM

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yeah totally why a wz 120 ft tried to yolo me in a tier nine medium(60% player too)

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 10:59 PM

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@grave bear Let me give you a fun fact. Wz 120-1g ft has better camo values then Rhm.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:00 PM

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@grave bear no its not, its a very low profile thats sloped. You can use the terrain to your advantage in a hundred different positions

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 11:01 PM

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That thing is nearly invisble and its extremely hard to blind shot it even if you know its location.

What exactly for no? Wz has %1 better camo rating then rhm. I dont care if you dont believe.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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ok nerf it to the ground, bye
thats why i said they have different roles. @dusky oxide

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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You wont always be battling t8 heavies with moderate pen. And it would be dumb to go head-on with them

deft owl Feb 28, 2019, 11:02 PM

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@grave bear Yeah good luck at nerfing a tier 8 premium.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:03 PM

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@grave bear the su and the wz? They only reason have different roles because the wz can do a bunch of sruff the su would struggle with. Thats why its not balanced

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:03 PM

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....

stone vapor Feb 28, 2019, 11:03 PM

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so what are we suposed to be talking about thats catching a nerf

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:04 PM

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@grave bear did you even glance at the graph?

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:04 PM

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wz 120 ft is a tier 8 obj263, Su101 is a tier 8 su122-54(in terms of roles) .
if you say they're the same you're a bit wrong

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:05 PM

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I say theyre similar, one is just 20% better

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:05 PM

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oof...

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Just because you cant play the other the same way doesnt mean its balanced. What oof?

stone vapor Feb 28, 2019, 11:06 PM

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well umm ima not get in this argument but the su is the only destroyer line ill use

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:07 PM

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The only way youll play a wz wrong is if you push too far with it.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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i own both Lowe and tiger II. Lowe is not even close to be a better in everything tiger II. the mobility and the size matters a lot

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:08 PM

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@stone vapor i didnt enjoy the t10 but su-101 and 122-54 are my faves.

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@grave bear too bad its not the same with an su-101 and a wz.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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it is

Wz120 FT is just a turretless medium tank

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:09 PM

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Oh explain this then :D

📎 5.4_-_tier_8-1__01.png

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:10 PM

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umh, im pretty sure that Jg tig 2015 and jg tig 8.8 is the exactly same tank
but they have so much different stats. what an accurate thing you send.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:10 PM

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One has the snowstorm camo. They sold it a year ago on new years with that 2015 camo :DD

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:11 PM

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AMX AC48 and Jpanther II are monsters, but they suck compared to other tier 8 tds, that's wrong.
this thing is just unaccurate af.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:12 PM

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The numbers dont lie.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:13 PM

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yeah, the numbers in the stats of these tanks dont lie, Wz 120 ft is not doubling the avg dmg of my su101

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:15 PM

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Su is around 1750 and wz is above 2k @grave bear

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Its doing tier 9 dmg numbers mate, the tanks at t8

late crow Feb 28, 2019, 11:25 PM

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Vk36.01H needs a buff. Thing is terrible. Can’t compete against heavies, gets out maneuvered by mediums. Give it more armor to justify the slow speed.

grave bear Feb 28, 2019, 11:37 PM

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@dusky oxide my tiger II has above 2k avg dmg, my su101 has 1900. all my tier 8 prem tanks have less than 1900 excluding lowe.
that means tiger II needs a nerf? Lmao.

dusky oxide Feb 28, 2019, 11:39 PM

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@grave bear the point is that youd have 2200 if you had the wz.

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Though when looking at balance its good to have a sample of more than 1 players you know.

drowsy plaza Mar 1, 2019, 2:31 AM

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I have 10 tier 8 tanks over 2k avg dmg -- guess which one is the highest? Hint it is a premium Chinese TD...

stone arch Mar 1, 2019, 3:30 AM

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My highest damage in tier 8 is apperently my New IS5 does it mean It needs a nerf? Im just joking its russian so expect a buff next update lols

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Because strong soviet tanks always receive undeserved buffs... But no such thing as bias right

winged barn Mar 1, 2019, 6:43 AM

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Russian bias? Lol.

lone warren Mar 1, 2019, 7:25 AM

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You know something is wrong when half the players that play that tank can get 3k average in it.
Its just too good. The mobility needs to be toned down imo through the speed limit and or the traverse.

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At the end of the day you’re a td with 1100 base health. Sure there are tanks that can penetrate you, but from my experience playing it I just target the tanks I know I can bully and avoid tanks head on that dont have much trouble hitting me.
And honestly, if you do get into a head on position your best chance is facehugging then angling the sloped armour even more which works a lot

shy wren Mar 1, 2019, 7:47 AM

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Even on PC, it’s really strong

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 8:16 AM

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@bold dagger ^

willow junco Mar 1, 2019, 9:28 AM

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eto gg

gaunt coyote Mar 1, 2019, 10:03 AM

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E3 would definetly need more ammunition. Always run out of one of the shell types.

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 10:05 AM

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Uhhh how much gold do you load?

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My E4 only has three gold shells 14 AP and 10 HE

coarse harness Mar 1, 2019, 10:18 AM

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15 AP shell is 9600 potencial avg dmg and you have 27 shells🤔

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 10:36 AM

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Well, that’s stereotypical american tanking; you get hit, something critical breaks

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In my E4, either the turret, engine, or ammorack gets damaged every match

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 11:01 AM

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I run mostly repairs and a fire extinguisher

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It costs to run adrenaline

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 12:31 PM

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📎 Screenshot_20190301-185326_Facebook.jpg

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Thanks to heaven and Novaworks for responding to my prayers

iron lynx Mar 1, 2019, 12:35 PM

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Wow
The long awaited Kpfz buff has arrived

thick rover Mar 1, 2019, 12:47 PM

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@grave bear Because one is "limited edition" and is less common than the other, the comparison would not be fair

wraith lance Mar 1, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Why do people assume when a tank becomes collector it's going to get nerfed?

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Because today is Friday

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@wraith lance. Because players like to assume the worst in everything. It's what they do.

dim field Mar 1, 2019, 12:59 PM

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Because they nerfed a bunch of the old tech tree tanks when they made them collectors. Unfortunately since then many people immediately think everything that turns into a collector gets nerfed. People don't realize that every tank can be nerfed at any time, they think it's only tech tree and collector tanks.

twilit crystal Mar 1, 2019, 1:10 PM

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@unique scaffold btw finally found someone who didnt blame mm but its probably mm. http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/102578-is8-help/

World of Tanks Blitz official forum

IS8 Help!@#$%^&* - General Discussion

IS8 Help!@#$%^&* - posted in General Discussion: I need to some help with the IS8. I think I may have the distinction of being the worst IS8 driver in the game. 100 battles with a 34% win rate. To win my 100th battle I had to put my tank in a position where the red team...

fiery cairn Mar 1, 2019, 1:20 PM

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The toaster was never nerfed

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 1:22 PM

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No but tiers 1-4 were rebalanced (lowered alpha and fire rate, increased HP)

fiery cairn Mar 1, 2019, 1:22 PM

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Imagine WG removing a punch of low tier seal clubbing guns but not removing the 152 on the kv2

dusky oxide Mar 1, 2019, 2:02 PM

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Imagine wg wanting dynamic gameplay so they nerf meds and add new equipment but keep the 183 in the gane

grave bear Mar 1, 2019, 2:25 PM

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meh, going down from 72% to 62% wr in amx 50 120 in 1 day while carrying all battles and playing like the other 72% battles, but in your team there are always 2 noobs with 0 dmg and all others with 1 average hit, means that the MM is a bit f cked up.

coarse harness Mar 1, 2019, 2:31 PM

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It's called random MM
Sometimes better sometimes worse🤷

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 2:35 PM

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The only buff Kpfpz 70 is receiving is the aim time going from 4.2 to 3.9, no reload buff or others... At least it's not getting nerfed, and I hope the switching to collector status doesn't change the 140% credit coefficient

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 2:51 PM

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Imagine the British TDs not being so weak.

twilit crystal Mar 1, 2019, 2:52 PM

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yeah then more idiots could spam grind the 183

open hedge Mar 1, 2019, 3:44 PM

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I have just about had it with ghost tanks. WG you need to work on it. It’s shiit. Too many times hit with a hail of shots from moving tanks 100m away.

distant river Mar 1, 2019, 3:46 PM

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Just dont get spotted, and when you do take cover

warm meadow Mar 1, 2019, 3:47 PM

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And get better view rang also don't cross the wide open parts of the map when a good portion of the red team are still up

open hedge Mar 1, 2019, 3:48 PM

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I’ve got 260m view. 3 tanks were moving together 100m away

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In my view the problem has got worse.

warm meadow Mar 1, 2019, 3:50 PM

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If they are light tanks and moving behind a bush with the camo net on then u will not see them

open hedge Mar 1, 2019, 3:51 PM

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I get that. But this was fv183, tortoise and amx

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In the open coming over the bridge in castille.

unique scaffold Mar 1, 2019, 4:34 PM

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I must be playing a different game. I can count the number of "ghost shells" I've experienced on one hand.

Also ghost shells =/= #tank-balance-discussion

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I think he’s talking about « ghost tanks » and not ghost shells. According to what he said the tanks were moving 100 meters away from him but they weren’t spotted

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Never experienced this myself though

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Not understanding spotting mechanics =/= #tank-balance-discussion

grave bear Mar 1, 2019, 5:58 PM

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tanks are spotted at 50 meters ,=/= then if you have terrible view range and they're lights behind bushes you wont spot them that far

formal sequoia Mar 1, 2019, 6:45 PM

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@grave bear It’s called proxy-spot

steady hull Mar 1, 2019, 7:04 PM

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Rip my rating grinder

📎 vk.png

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@unique scaffold thanks for that info on the kpz was about to say rip with this image

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📎 kpzz.png

grave bear Mar 1, 2019, 8:47 PM

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i dont know on which tank should i get that camo

smoky yoke Mar 1, 2019, 9:22 PM

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That camo does not look good on kpfz at all >.>

mellow cape Mar 1, 2019, 9:27 PM

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The camo itself doesn't look good to me, feels a bit too dark.

quick lichen Mar 1, 2019, 10:17 PM

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That’s the single worst looking kpz I’ve ever seen

visual nimbus Mar 1, 2019, 10:34 PM

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The ratings camouflage on German tanks don’t look right..except maybe on the 72.01 K

distant river Mar 1, 2019, 10:34 PM

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It doesnt look terrible on the waffle tractor

visual nimbus Mar 1, 2019, 10:35 PM

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True

twilit crystal Mar 1, 2019, 10:36 PM

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the kpf is overall a hella ugly tank with the special camo

distant river Mar 1, 2019, 10:36 PM

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Its annoying how the main tanks camo is almost perfect, but around the gun its all scruufy

smoky yoke Mar 1, 2019, 11:59 PM

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Kpfz is the most modern looking tank in blitz other than m48 patton and centurion ,I think they still use those models still to this day.

📎 Screenshot_18.png

dusky oxide Mar 2, 2019, 12:20 AM

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The leos and abrams' wouldnt be what they are if it wasnt for the kpz project. It was ahead of its time and a mean counter to soviet mbts. Along the bc ap its my fav tank at tier 9. And i dont think anything beast its legendary camo but my opinion is biased cause im a finn and its the same camo used on our defence forces leos.

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What im wondering though is what wg is going to buff about it since according to my experience it fullfills its role very well.

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@unique scaffold where did you find info on the aim time buff? Thats quite a good thing to buff, theyve buffed dispersion and rof earlier and it made the kpz a lot smoother to use. And no, collector status doesnt change credit coefficient, it didnt on other former premiums either. So no worries.

shy wren Mar 2, 2019, 1:06 AM

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5.9 Open Test @dusky oxide

dusky oxide Mar 2, 2019, 1:12 AM

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I see ^^

frozen moat Mar 2, 2019, 1:54 AM

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Is understandable...the Kpfz, T55a and K91, only three tier 9 premium tanks and make supreme stupidity degrading Kpfz as collector, how many people have wasted a lot of money to getting that tank? , a very rare tank in this game moreover

wraith lance Mar 2, 2019, 2:06 AM

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But its getting buffed on 5.9, why are you complaining

frozen moat Mar 2, 2019, 2:13 AM

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A question about to convert a premium tank to collector... The tank loses the hability to grind credits as premium?

shy wren Mar 2, 2019, 2:14 AM

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No. It retains its credit coefficient

dim field Mar 2, 2019, 2:17 AM

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The only change that happens is the name color goes from yellow to blue, you have to use the collector filter instead of premium, and you get gold instead of credits when selling it.

smoky yoke Mar 2, 2019, 7:01 AM

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Btw enriched and collectables are the same btw, both have almost the same credit coefficients and both can be buffed or nerfed. Just one is blue and the other is gold like a premium. I personally keeping below tier 8. I got kpfz for free btw.

modern rapids Mar 2, 2019, 7:08 AM

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Yeah it's quite funny seeing people complain the kpf is going a collectable

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When it wasn't even a premium

solemn aurora Mar 2, 2019, 7:08 AM

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I got it when it was first given out for the rating leaderboards, I do quite like it, and I don’t really care if it’s a premium or collectible.

modern rapids Mar 2, 2019, 7:08 AM

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Same

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Just because it's going as a collectable people thinks it automatically gets nerfed

solemn aurora Mar 2, 2019, 7:09 AM

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There’s no other tank like it atm I guess. Besides, can’t complain, it’s free, and ikr.

modern rapids Mar 2, 2019, 7:09 AM

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I don't think any collectable tank has been nerfed

solemn aurora Mar 2, 2019, 7:11 AM

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Apart from the ones below tier 5, but they were all nerfed, not just the collectibles, so.

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Although I didn’t like that, it makes grinding so boring and hard, all the way to tier 5. But I understand why it’s necessary

dim field Mar 2, 2019, 7:48 AM

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Toaster stayed the same iirc

mental schooner Mar 2, 2019, 10:42 AM

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@modern rapids luchs was badly nerfed. 😂

lethal wind Mar 2, 2019, 11:24 AM

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@modern rapids yes some collectible tanks have had changes

shy wren Mar 2, 2019, 11:30 AM

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They’re for lower tier balance. Even the tech tree ones are nerfed too @mental schooner

mental schooner Mar 2, 2019, 12:12 PM

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@shy wren good point but did it really have to get that bad of a nerf? Ive seen a luchs player complain about his little gun.

shy wren Mar 2, 2019, 12:30 PM

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Well, he didn’t complain about the traverse
Have the 38 nA instead, that thing is so nice

iron lynx Mar 2, 2019, 12:38 PM

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Why does the Kpfz's camo made it look like a used shoe

upper kraken Mar 2, 2019, 12:44 PM

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😂

clever mauve Mar 2, 2019, 12:55 PM

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The ke-ho is also still a fun little tank @shy wren

dim field Mar 2, 2019, 1:04 PM

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Bt-Sv speeeeed boat

clever mauve Mar 2, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Yeahh I hope they sell that thing again soon haha

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The bt SV and the grobtraktor are the only tanks at the tier with spaced armor that can actually block the Bt7 art HE shell

hidden frigate Mar 2, 2019, 3:17 PM

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-ahem- Panzer II J

shy wren Mar 2, 2019, 3:20 PM

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-ahem- UE 57

golden kraken Mar 2, 2019, 4:17 PM

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SU 100Y is OP, it's too easy to get, so everyone has it. Plus a tier 8 gun in tier 5 matchups sometimes. That's what I call OP

lone warren Mar 2, 2019, 4:21 PM

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It has a big gun but its balanced by the fact it can be awkward. Big profile unreliable armour and not much health.
Decent mobility though but its russian so ofc lmao

rapid cobalt Mar 2, 2019, 4:36 PM

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S35 CA is best Tier V Tank

lone warren Mar 2, 2019, 4:44 PM

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Difference is the 100y can use the alpha on poor tier fives

undone coral Mar 2, 2019, 4:49 PM

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Is4 needs a huge turret nerf

meager spruce Mar 2, 2019, 4:56 PM

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Nonsense

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Do you realize with that nerf the thing will not be a classical russian tank and will be basically useless just because it can easily penned with HEAT/APCR (the premium ammo the tank had) on the hull.

clever mauve Mar 2, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Ue 57 and pz2 J are easy to kill tho ~ ram the ue and go around back of the pz or let your team kill it @hidden frigate @shy wren

meager spruce Mar 2, 2019, 5:03 PM

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PZ2 J is probably the third most OP tank in the game after KE NI OTSU and WZ 120 G FT.

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It does not care about MM as also tier 4s will struggle to pen it

twilit crystal Mar 2, 2019, 5:09 PM

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yeah but it cant pen tier 4s

undone coral Mar 2, 2019, 5:10 PM

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@meager spruce tanks with just as hard to pen turrets have a super easy to pen hull like the t34

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Hell the is4 is even more mobile than the t34 and can sidescrape better

obsidian osprey Mar 2, 2019, 6:10 PM

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Pz2j is garbage- half the tanks you see are either unpennable, or you are too slow to flank to hit them where they are. When your team inevitably dies around you, it’s an auto loss or draw.

unique scaffold Mar 2, 2019, 6:11 PM

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Pain in a can

twilit crystal Mar 2, 2019, 6:15 PM

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the is4 has no turret weakspot anywhere

quick lichen Mar 2, 2019, 6:25 PM

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@twilit crystal that is false

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It has almost no turret weakspot

twilit crystal Mar 2, 2019, 6:26 PM

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OH YEAH 400 pen heat can go through the cheeks

atomic hound Mar 2, 2019, 6:33 PM

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I've never once penned or been penned through the front of the turret, it is functionally impossible.

neon peak Mar 2, 2019, 6:40 PM

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If your a tall tank you can shoot the top of the turret,
I’ve done it before

vernal maple Mar 2, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Maybe this has been brought up before but I am curious, has there been any discussion about enabling preferred match making for the sub tier V collectors? The Valentine II has always had this feature and it has been it’s saving grace. I’m an “Ace Chaser” and while I have gotten most of the sub Vs, a number still evade me. So often due to my high battle count, I’m placed in the bottom tier- often the only bottom tier, and have no ability to rack up the xp that rookies have available to them because I’m too weak to engage. Just a thought.

grave bear Mar 2, 2019, 7:53 PM

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is4's turret roof is penetrable with heat if is4 is not in hulldown (only by E100 or tanks in a height place) then it has 2 optics that can be penned by any 220+ pen gun, and then this super little flat plate nearly the gun mantlet that can be penned by probably 260 pen or less, but you need pinpoint accuracy

quick lichen Mar 2, 2019, 8:23 PM

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@twilit crystal is4s can pen it

grave bear Mar 2, 2019, 8:39 PM

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true, also E5 and T57.
maybe also amx 50b if normalization is a thing

dusky oxide Mar 2, 2019, 8:51 PM

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Oh yea thats true, is4 has td pen with its prammo :DD

fiery turtle Mar 2, 2019, 11:29 PM

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Please change Cruiser Mk.I to have 2-pounder gun and not Pom Pom autoloader. An autoloader with only 2 shots in the clip is more trouble than it’s worth, thanks to poor dispersion and long reload compared to 2-pounder. Thanks.

mellow cape Mar 2, 2019, 11:30 PM

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@fiery turtle Wargaming doesn't care about lower tier changes anymore pretty sure, they wanted to make the game slower paced for new players.

fiery turtle Mar 2, 2019, 11:31 PM

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Please change AMX 40 to have stock turret and 45 mm gun. Top turret is ugly as hell, and the big 75 mm gun has such poor dispersion and slow reload that it is not worth having. Thanks.

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Please change Pz.Kpfw. III Ausf A to have stock turret and fast-firing 3.7 cm gun. The tank’s very high mobility and low profile makes the 5.0 cm gun and tough turret too much for newbies in Tier II tanks to deal with. Giving it the smaller gun (with higher DPM) will force it to stay out in the open more often, and get hit more often. Thanks.

kindred carbon Mar 3, 2019, 4:01 AM

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Having a higher DPM gun would make it easier for more experienced players to fight the new players, using cover to maximize survivability and poking out every few seconds to get off shots.

hidden frigate Mar 3, 2019, 4:36 AM

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This guy @fiery turtle is meme material.

brisk lily Mar 3, 2019, 4:37 AM

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Even better
make low tiers playable

tiny cairn Mar 3, 2019, 4:46 AM

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man wh0 cares about low tiers anymore they suck

tame plume Mar 3, 2019, 5:51 AM

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@fiery turtle you gae

twilit crystal Mar 3, 2019, 7:33 AM

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WG actually needs to start diffrentiating med and light vs heavy/td view range. Its a disgrace im at 255 -260 meters against an e75 in a batchat and i get spotted after i fire.

small flame Mar 3, 2019, 7:40 AM

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then dont fire

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 8:37 AM

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The FV215b would be more balanced if it had a legendary camo.

thick rover Mar 3, 2019, 8:40 AM

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FV215b "Gentleman"

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@twilit crystal Agree with you, but not about your example because firing and giving off your location at that distance seems fine

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:17 AM

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U can pen is4 cheeks my dude @twilit crystal

lunar niche Mar 3, 2019, 10:25 AM

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IS 4 cheeks are very small to hit.

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:34 AM

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True. But that’s what make is4 a good tank. It doesn’t have leo mobility or 183 alpha...

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 10:34 AM

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Dont give them ideas @slim rivet

lunar niche Mar 3, 2019, 10:56 AM

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IS4 is a bit too good imo.

thick rover Mar 3, 2019, 2:56 PM

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Why would you think so? Just curious lolol @lunar niche

coarse harness Mar 3, 2019, 4:15 PM

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183 is good food for every other tank now

kind swallow Mar 3, 2019, 4:40 PM

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183 is still op

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And bunch of noobs always pen u, cos they use FULL AP
And then, i u have big sides, or sides like 140 u dont really mind about that cos u get 1000 dmg as always

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 4:44 PM

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Just dont get hit or try and peek a boom it

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 5:02 PM

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@distant river easier to say than to do

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 5:03 PM

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Yeah, but keeping moving in a med and keeping the 183 spotted isnt too bad

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 5:04 PM

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We all know how it works. 183 are generally bad players camping in a corner. They don’t do much damages but sometimes they manage to hit u and ruin ur game. Op tank? No. Cancer tank? Yeah @distant river

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 5:05 PM

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Yup sounds about right, especially playing a tank like the WT

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If youre uptiered you will cower in the corner until the 183 is spotted

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 9:05 PM

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I think, Conqueror must have the Conqueror MK II ABP turret, and must have an armor upgrade, but now it is a piece of crap, and i need to use that crap to get FV215b 😑

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hello !

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Hi :v

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:05 PM

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Its obvious nerf the gravedigger and vk100p

dim field Mar 3, 2019, 10:06 PM

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Why?

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:11 PM

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@hardy heron. It isn't obvious

crystal spoke Mar 3, 2019, 10:12 PM

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Tbh I think the gravedigger could use a bit of a recoil nerf

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:20 PM

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@unique scaffold it is. It can take 2-3 t7 tanks all focusing at once to take a gravedigger down. Which is silly especiasly ehen it requires multiple heavies.its clearly op

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 10:22 PM

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Sorry what? Just use your higher alpha...

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:22 PM

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It really isn't. Players inability to flank or aim does not make a tank OP.

dim field Mar 3, 2019, 10:30 PM

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Instead of leaening to counter it, people would rather just nerf it.

Take a shot at its lower plate. If it's hulldown and won't let you. Go around to the side or back. Shoot once back to cover wait to reload shoot again. You should out trade it well enough

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:32 PM

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Learning is too hard. It's much easier to cry until a tank gets nerfed.

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^^

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:37 PM

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U are right. I won’t cry about nerfing 183. Now I just want it removed haha @unique scaffold

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:41 PM

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There are exceptions to every rule. @slim rivet

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In my opinion tanks like the 183 and the KV-2 are out of place in blitz.

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:44 PM

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I couldn’t agree more @unique scaffold

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:47 PM

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Those two tanks reward unskilled players more than any other tanks in the game. Hide in spawn and land one shot. Then land one more shot before you get rushed and die. There is no skill there. They simply create a stagnant game environment where players are afraid to scout in fear of getting nuked for the majority of their hit points by some windex addict who barely drove out of their spawn point.

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:47 PM

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@unique scaffold flabk a gravedigger? It will just turn and drive into you

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:48 PM

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Strange. That doesn't happen to me 🤷‍♂️

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 10:49 PM

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@hardy heron just peek a boom if you can't flank. It can get 2 hits on you max, which is 150 dmg which is nothing

halcyon dagger Mar 3, 2019, 10:49 PM

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I find the Chi-Ri to be more of a threat than the Gravedigger

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:50 PM

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@distant river with its armour chances are you won't really boom anything ajd its 500 damage per clip is insane at t7

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 10:51 PM

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It has a horrible lower plate, so just aim. And simply dont let it unload its clip in one go

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:53 PM

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@halcyon dagger lol nice meme

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:54 PM

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I dont really worry about grave digger unless im in a paper tank 🤷‍♂️

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:54 PM

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Who plays tier 7 anyways ?

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:55 PM

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I love it when one player tells other how to deal with a issue and all they get is arguements in return. 😂

A Grave Digger is a problem if you let it catch you out in the open and if you let it dump a clip into you. If you don't do those things it is a easy kill.

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:55 PM

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@unique scaffold like people conplaining about a 183. Dont ger caiggt in the open. HE it ti death after its fired gg

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Did you just have a stroke? Should I call 911?

lunar niche Mar 3, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Lmao

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Um probably should @unique scaffold

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 10:56 PM

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@unique scaffold start dialling

median gust Mar 3, 2019, 10:57 PM

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Totally on topic

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:58 PM

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The GD and the 183 aren't even in the same ballpark.

The GD takes a degree of skill to do well in... the 183 does not require nearly the same amount of skill.

slim rivet Mar 3, 2019, 10:58 PM

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But no chance to see it removed, right @unique scaffold ?

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:58 PM

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I don't work for WG. I have no clue.

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 10:59 PM

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I dont work for WG yet*

lunar niche Mar 3, 2019, 10:59 PM

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Didn't WG mention in one of their livestream/interview that they were not removing tanks?

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 10:59 PM

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I honestly don't have a issue with the 183... I have a issue with the number in each game. 3 tank destroyers per team is simply too many.

@distant river WG can't afford me.

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 11:00 PM

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Professionals have standards...
(about your pay not you not meeting their standards)

unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 11:00 PM

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6 TDs in every match creates a stagnant unfun environment. I personally think they should be capped at 2 per team.

halcyon dagger Mar 3, 2019, 11:01 PM

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3 T95s per team

distant river Mar 3, 2019, 11:02 PM

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3 TDs and 4 heavies on castilla gives you a very boring game

lunar niche Mar 3, 2019, 11:04 PM

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Or a very fast one. Heavies pushing in the open getting nuked by TDs and red heavies from city.

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 11:05 PM

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Just watch the video

dim field Mar 3, 2019, 11:05 PM

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Cap every tank type to 2

hardy heron Mar 3, 2019, 11:06 PM

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https://youtu.be/ZewRSG3sU2Y The first clip just shows how op this is. Hes unloaded 1500dmg before taking 2 shots at t7...

YouTube

WOT BLITZ meadsy69

Wotb: Gravedigger | is it really OP?

Gravedigger, is it really OP So when the gravedigger was first released,I thought it was so OP, having played it a while, my views have kinda changed. Agains...

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unique scaffold Mar 3, 2019, 11:08 PM

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A good player doing good in a tank?!?! Say it isn't so!

dim field Mar 3, 2019, 11:29 PM

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Meadsy even says in the video why it isn't op and what it would take for it to be op

teal olive Mar 3, 2019, 11:36 PM

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Buff the jagpanzer E100. Worst tank at tier ten IMO

neon peak Mar 3, 2019, 11:52 PM

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Yes plz buff just cuz I like it, and I think it’s good how it is pretty much.

modest grove Mar 4, 2019, 12:02 AM

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You know what would be awesome? A KV2 with a 6 shot auto loader I don't care if it takes 2 minutes to reload. XD

marsh inlet Mar 4, 2019, 12:27 AM

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Type 61 needs some help plz donate so this poor poor American ripoff can have a home in wot and a buff

teal olive Mar 4, 2019, 2:08 AM

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@neon peak I despise it, it has no purpose at tier ten and is just a big box of hitpoints waiting to be taken

neon peak Mar 4, 2019, 2:21 AM

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Yea I’ve heard a lot of people say it is not good and such. Personally I really enjoy playing it for some fun games, being able to do 2 highest average damage per shot is nice and with super good pen, and armour is pretty good I find, mobility it’s terrible but overall fun tank for me to play

open lynx Mar 4, 2019, 2:45 AM

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xd

fiery turtle Mar 4, 2019, 3:38 AM

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Please give the Type 97 Chi-Ha its 57 mm gun back as the stock gun instead of the 37 mm. There’s no good reason why the Tier II Chi-Ni can have this 57 mm gun, but the Tier III Chi-Ha can’t. Thanks.

unique scaffold Mar 4, 2019, 3:51 AM

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Please buff chieftain turret to 400mm

flat bane Mar 4, 2019, 4:43 AM

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Please remove all prem tanks

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 4:47 AM

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111TheOneAndOnly111
You planning on giving everyone a refund?

quick lichen Mar 4, 2019, 5:10 AM

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@dim field yes. And who’s going to pay for it?!

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 5:14 AM

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Most likely wg or the people who bought em

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 5:26 AM

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i find it heavy bias that the grave digger gets 0.66 seconds between shells but the 13 57 has to wait 1 sec

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why does a tank with n o armor need to wait 5 seconds while a tank with a lot of armor do it in like 3

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 5:32 AM

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It's easier for 13 57 to get back to cover?

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 5:36 AM

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again the 13 57 has to expose itself for like 5 seconds while the grave digger can do it for 3 and still bounce

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 5:37 AM

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Honestly i don't know

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Where does the 5 seconds part comes from exactly? What prevents you from going peek a boom?

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 5:40 AM

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it has 90 dmg lol u cant exactly peek a boom using camo reset with that. Again the grave digger has it in 3 seconds. Its a clear example of WG being biased towards idiots in heavies while punishing skilled light tanks

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 5:42 AM

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Peek a boom using cover. Stick your gun out, shoot, pull back, repeat.

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Here's the stats

📎 Screenshot_20190304-004606_Samsung_Internet.jpg 📎 Screenshot_20190304-004556_Samsung_Internet.jpg

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Kinda weird to compare them though given one is a light while the other is a heavy but honestly i don't have any experience with the Amx

smoky yoke Mar 4, 2019, 6:45 AM

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AMX 13 57 just needs to get it's light tank camo. Gravedigger is a huge tank if your shooting at it, you're not going to miss. Gravedigger is great again tier 7 (a little above average) and 6's (God Like). But once it is bottom tier gravedigger clipping is HP hurting course almost all tanks can do x3 the amount of dmg you do in one shot, if you ever do any trading. I haven't played that tank since I got it, rather play e25, type 62, ruby, t-34-1 or even vindictor. Has way better and more effective premiums to play that are still competitive in tier 8 for the most part except e25 in corridor maps

hardy heron Mar 4, 2019, 7:47 AM

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@dim field he says cos of its low pen. Its got 175 pen on AP which is the sane as a kv3...its op against t7 and t6 judt not against t8 tanks...175 pen is what the t54mod1 has... says nit op ajd demobstrates two 3k plus damage games . No tactics or sidescraping just drives straight into his enemies

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 7:49 AM

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Are you talking about the Amx?

hardy heron Mar 4, 2019, 7:50 AM

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M @dim field no gravedigger, sorry ot has 170 pen

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 7:50 AM

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Oh from the earlier conversation

hardy heron Mar 4, 2019, 7:52 AM

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Yeah and its lower plate is so small ajd low bythe time you've aimed you probably took more damage than you gave

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 7:53 AM

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He says it would be op if it had higher pen. It's fine at tier 7 really strong at tier 6 (except it can still sometimes bounce as seen from the video where he bounces off the side of a tank running away). Can bounce rounds from tier 8 but is usually a big easy target. He got 3k damge from being a good player but at the very beginning he caught some people who weren't even facing him directly which let him rack up some damage.

hardy heron Mar 4, 2019, 7:55 AM

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@dim field yeah only because it would dominate t8 as well. A t7 tank should be playing second fiddle at t8. Hes hardoy even using cover to reload, no sidescraping liyerally drivijg straight at reds just clipping them.ajd bouncing everythijg they throw. Tells me islts a low skill op tank

dim field Mar 4, 2019, 7:56 AM

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.
Most the time when i go for the lower plate I'll take almost 2 shots. I'm often a Td or a heavy so most the time the GD will either be unable to pen or I'll have the better positioning (T25 AT aiming down, from the side, or forcing the GD to expose itself)

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.
He is using cover, a lot of the time he's either using terrain differences as cover or attacking when the enemy is in bad positioning.

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 2:34 PM

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I migt not miss a grave digger but i might not pen

formal sequoia Mar 4, 2019, 3:27 PM

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I havent encountered Gravedigger for 2 months

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 3:27 PM

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im not talking about it being op. Im just talking about WG's lazy balancing giving everything to idiotic heavy tank players

formal sequoia Mar 4, 2019, 3:34 PM

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Idiotic Heavy tank players ??

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@twilit crystal

twilit crystal Mar 4, 2019, 3:36 PM

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low skill players play heavy tanks more so the stats are brought down for balancing. Thats why the grave digger takes 3 seconds to unload while the 13 57 takes 5

formal sequoia Mar 4, 2019, 3:36 PM

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Hmm

smoky yoke Mar 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

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??????????

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Only reason to play gravedigger is to play it against tier 7 and tier 6s where it is above average (well lets say above average for the good tanks in tier 7 since it has some stinkers) tech tree and below average for premiums. I aim for engine decks so I can get a fire after every clip. But since I don't play supremacy , I normally have to play against tier 8 tanks which by seeing the amount of premium shells I have to carry would say how many tanks are in the red. I rarely get tier 7 and 6 in the times I get to play this game so I just gave up on this tank >.>

📎 Screenshot_44.png

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Only reason I still have this tank ticked off is course I haven't mastered it as yet >.> 3.5k dmg is not enough. IF I play supremacy I guess I could since that mode is way to easier to get masteries but I feel sry for those players since I see more players learning to play the game there. Maybe I should play supremacy to get this mastery. Well am off to master this tank now. Thanx for making me convince me, am off to play this tank in suprem and mastery it to finally sell it.

visual nimbus Mar 4, 2019, 8:41 PM

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What’s the point of using HE on gravedigger?
I could never figure it out
Tracking maybe

smoky yoke Mar 4, 2019, 8:42 PM

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For RHm

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600-900 dmg is better than 400-600 dmg

pastel nimbus Mar 4, 2019, 8:49 PM

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I hate it, that I often have a Match, in that the only high-tiers of my enemy are heavies and TD-Derps. I mean, thats a free-win for them, because the heavies and TD's in my team are
low-tier.

stray gazelle Mar 4, 2019, 9:30 PM

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How much does gravedigger sell for?

smoky yoke Mar 4, 2019, 9:31 PM

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2k gold

indigo tinsel Mar 4, 2019, 10:14 PM

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.__.

📎 Screen_Shot_2019-02-28_at_4.55.42_PM.png

distant river Mar 4, 2019, 10:14 PM

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That tiny plate between the track plate and the main side plate...

indigo tinsel Mar 4, 2019, 10:15 PM

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still should pen my dude..
what are you even talking about

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REEE slowmode is big dumb

distant river Mar 4, 2019, 10:17 PM

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At that more angle than that armour inspector says the horizontal pannel has 250mm of armour

indigo tinsel Mar 4, 2019, 10:17 PM

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Well it should bounce off of that then and hit the flat hull!

distant river Mar 4, 2019, 10:18 PM

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Too much energy would have been lost

mellow cape Mar 4, 2019, 10:32 PM

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It won't bounce due to the 3 calibers rule. What likely happened is that due to some lag you actually hit his upper back plate would bounce the shell.

median gust Mar 5, 2019, 2:05 AM

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1v4 anyway, cent could finish you ez

small flame Mar 5, 2019, 4:53 AM

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its not like wot blitz is meant to be realistic

smoky yoke Mar 5, 2019, 5:34 AM

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blitz would be more popular is it was more arcade driven like wows blitz but its too late to change that now xD

small flame Mar 5, 2019, 5:43 AM

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if you think you can make a better game thats more popular, youre more than welcome (to try)

mellow cape Mar 5, 2019, 9:07 AM

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Blitz requires strategy and thinking, it is not for everyone. Some people just enjoy running and gunning and something like PUBG is better for those kinds of people.

rose sequoia Mar 5, 2019, 12:07 PM

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@smoky yoke your tank is so op.

jade cargoBOT Mar 5, 2019, 1:55 PM

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dynoSuccess BogdanM4#1478 has been warned.

civic oar Mar 5, 2019, 2:00 PM

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Way bot delete image????

ivory fractal Mar 5, 2019, 2:01 PM

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@civic oar I warned you for naming and shaming, it’s not allowed, yours is quite explicit

civic oar Mar 5, 2019, 2:02 PM

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@ivory fractal just the truth

ornate epoch Mar 5, 2019, 2:03 PM

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Lol someone wants a ban

civic oar Mar 5, 2019, 2:04 PM

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@ornate epoch by happy

quartz crown Mar 5, 2019, 2:04 PM

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One game- really nice data set @civic oar

lone warren Mar 5, 2019, 2:05 PM

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Look at pinned messages..

jade cargoBOT Mar 5, 2019, 2:05 PM

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dynoSuccess BogdanM4#1478 was muted

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 2:36 PM

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Why is following the rules so hard?

warm meadow Mar 5, 2019, 3:15 PM

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Basic human condition, when told we can't do something we feel like we are getting controlled and so we go and do whatever it was that we couldn't do just to say that you cannot control us

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 3:16 PM

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I love philosophy

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 4:22 PM

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So if we say "you mustn't respect the rules" we could achieve better results 😂

quartz crown Mar 5, 2019, 6:09 PM

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@unique scaffold because the rules restrict fun

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 7:21 PM

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@quartz crown. Change your definition of fun. Problem solved.

smoky yoke Mar 5, 2019, 7:22 PM

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@small flame I just stating the obvious, blitz is growing at a very slow amount 13k player NA, 33k Players EU, Russian has 88k players meaning something about this game does not register to other countries that is not Russia ? The grind? the reward system? Or the game play is not effective? I am not sure. But this not a discussion for here and just state, gravedigger is great against tier 7 and 6 but crap against tier 8. @rose sequoia

quartz crown Mar 5, 2019, 7:28 PM

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@unique scaffold well my definition of fun being a furry on non furry servers

twilit crystal Mar 5, 2019, 7:29 PM

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speaking of op turrets. the is3 needs a nerf. Im freaking face hugging an is3 in my t34 using gold and i still cant pen

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Now why would you face hug an IS3

twilit crystal Mar 5, 2019, 7:34 PM

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coz im in a t34. FYI i facehugged in such a position his gun depression couldnt hit my hull. There is no reason his gold should pen a t34 but my gold cant

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 7:35 PM

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Learn to aim then

modern rapids Mar 5, 2019, 7:35 PM

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But your hull is big

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Is3 is a low tank

twilit crystal Mar 5, 2019, 7:35 PM

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meadsy i was pushing him specifically across a ridge so his gun was facing my turret only

modern rapids Mar 5, 2019, 7:35 PM

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Ah

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The hatch on top?

twilit crystal Mar 5, 2019, 7:36 PM

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he couldnt touch my hull. Thats how i face hugged him. He penned my turret using gold but my 300 pen gold cant pen the is3 coz they removed turret weakspot on top coz russia. He penned my cheeks . He couldnt see my hatch

modern rapids Mar 5, 2019, 7:37 PM

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Ah I have no idea then

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Hax

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 7:37 PM

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@quartz crown. They should all be non-furry servers 🤣

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?

📎 Screenshot_20190305-213927_Armor_Inspector.jpg

quartz crown Mar 5, 2019, 7:39 PM

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@unique scaffold I will OwO and UwU whenever I want

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I will OwO and UwU with all my fellow compatriots and I will destroy every non furry player in blitz including you. Prepare for the tunneling of a pony boi rawr <333

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 7:40 PM

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Ew what's wrong with you

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@quartz crown so.... Good players are going to kill me? Sounds like normal.

quartz crown Mar 5, 2019, 7:50 PM

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@unique scaffold when people call me good haven’t heard that in a while

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 8:25 PM

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Srry if i was a little bit aggressive

distant river Mar 5, 2019, 8:25 PM

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If there wasnt premiums, you would be paying to get the game, and there qould be a massively smaller playerbase. T28 defender is pretty balenced, especially compared to the T28 proto. And just dodge the 183 or CoD it

viscid orchid Mar 5, 2019, 8:44 PM

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lol @ tier 5 battles being good @unique scaffold

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 8:45 PM

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Yes? I really enjoy tier 5 battles

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@unique scaffold. Cursing is frowned upon here and taking one letter out of the word isn't fooling anyone

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Ok :v👌

viscid orchid Mar 5, 2019, 10:16 PM

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@unique scaffold Yeah and that's great. I insinuated that they are not good. That doesn't mean you don't or can't enjoy them. It just means they're not good. Do with that as you will.

jade cargoBOT Mar 5, 2019, 10:24 PM

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dynoSuccess (-NiloC-)#0590 was muted

jolly ermine Mar 5, 2019, 10:34 PM

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How is this balanced? Started this game last night. Never have I ever seen this

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 10:35 PM

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Na?

quick lichen Mar 5, 2019, 10:35 PM

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@jolly ermine pinned messages

jolly ermine Mar 5, 2019, 10:36 PM

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Yes NA

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 10:37 PM

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You guys are too few....

quick lichen Mar 5, 2019, 10:37 PM

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This has nothing to do with balance

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Discuss this in #547025897648160779

jolly ermine Mar 5, 2019, 10:41 PM

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Ok

deft owl Mar 5, 2019, 10:50 PM

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@unique scaffold "6 TDs in every match creates a stagnant unfun environment. I personally think they should be capped at 2 per team."

Say hello to 10 min waiting per match.

jade cargoBOT Mar 5, 2019, 10:51 PM

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dynoSuccess Wannabeunicum#7220 has been warned.

unique scaffold Mar 5, 2019, 11:00 PM

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@deft owl 10 minute wait for TD players. Other tanks would be pulled into a match much faster.

clever mauve Mar 5, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Bt7 art is getting engine nerf :/

twilit crystal Mar 5, 2019, 11:06 PM

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So anyway RIP sp1c. Its getting nerfed again coz WG hates fast autoloaders. But the jg pz e100 gets a buff -_-

clever mauve Mar 5, 2019, 11:07 PM

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But aim time buff will be nice ig~ I just hope it isn’t much slower to accelerate

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Sp1c is getting nerf?? Oof I thought it was buff slightly

distant river Mar 5, 2019, 11:07 PM

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Isnt the SP1C getting another shell in its clip?

desert stump Mar 6, 2019, 12:00 AM

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Is the game gonna do anything with T69 and T54e1?

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 12:01 AM

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T54e 1 is great but t69....

swift bramble Mar 6, 2019, 12:09 AM

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Uh plz stop this pay-to-get-fancy-Tanks-and-get-a-t10-easily WG it’s annoying I spend 15 euros a month it’s not enough

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 12:23 AM

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Apparently the M41’s gonna have the DPM of a Comet for Update 5.9, but the improved vents it’s gonna hamper it’s DPM on the top gun, so a balancing factor

grave bear Mar 6, 2019, 12:45 AM

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M41 Bulldog was already a very very good tank....

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it will have 3.4 reload time with vents equipped, compared to comet 3.3, but bulldog is 1k times more accurate, has +8 penetration, it's 1k times faster, has light tank camo. gg wg, u just broke again the balance at tier 7. heavies became useless again. buff again heavy tanks now. noobs

quick lichen Mar 6, 2019, 1:14 AM

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The only good purchasable tier x is the 121b

orchid grove Mar 6, 2019, 1:26 AM

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Honestly, all I want is for WG to completely rebalance the Bat Chat as more of a combat medium instead of a scout tank. 4 shell autoloader with 350 alpha and 3.1 seconds between shells, but 26s reload to give it a little less than 2400 base DPM, and take away its light tank camo (and re-designate it as a medium). Then they could add like the AMX 13 105 branching off the Bat Chat AP and give it basically the same stats that Bat Chat currently has as a replacement

quick lichen Mar 6, 2019, 1:34 AM

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You want the tvp when it comes out

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 1:35 AM

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Yep. Interclip reload is phenomenal

orchid grove Mar 6, 2019, 1:37 AM

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I'll just be disapposinted in the TVP because it'll basically just be a Bat Chat with faster interclip in exchange for less camo
Unless they redefine the Bat Chat's role on the battlefield, it'll be super stupid

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 1:38 AM

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It can easily dump it’s potential 3 shells (If WG sticks with the 3 shell formula) in just 3s, then hide

quick lichen Mar 6, 2019, 1:38 AM

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What can I say

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It’s a light tank

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We’ve talked about the bat before

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It’s not changing anytime soon

median gust Mar 6, 2019, 1:50 AM

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sighs

orchid grove Mar 6, 2019, 1:54 AM

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A guy can dream though right?
I still disagree with WG's decision to make the Bat Chats light tanks in the first place, it should have been a medium

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:30 AM

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What? The bulldog is getting a buff? It's already the best of the tier 7 tech tree lights.

red condor Mar 6, 2019, 2:38 AM

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Bulldog has very bad armor.

uncut osprey Mar 6, 2019, 2:40 AM

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No armor=best armor

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:42 AM

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You shouldn't be taking hits in a light tank.

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It’s a light tank with very good speed and a decent gun why would it need armor

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:44 AM

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its a pretty large light tank

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:45 AM

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Not really

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:45 AM

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its the largest tier 7 light

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my bad 2nd largest after lttb but that has armor

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:47 AM

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Maybe the tallest but pretty sure Type 62 is larger
And LTTB has a worse gun

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:47 AM

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i mean its a large tier 7 light. Im not arguing about balance. It overall is an alttb that trades armor for firepower

quick lichen Mar 6, 2019, 2:47 AM

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I love the Dracula but not a fan of the cdc

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Recently though I’ve been advised to play it like a tier 8 leopard 1 though

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:48 AM

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1 thing I don’t understand is why would the Bulldog get a buff and SP 1 C stay untouched?!

Autocorrect hits hard today

quick lichen Mar 6, 2019, 2:48 AM

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And I imagine that changes everything

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:48 AM

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As I stated you literally cant use the cdc's mobilities coz a t49 will be there in most games. I dont even hate fast tanks. I love the ru251 but the smaller profile with hesh makes it much better

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Anyway why did the 13 57 interclip not get buffed to grave digger levels?

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:49 AM

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The CDC is kind of some Leo 1, big and unarmored but fast and with a powerful gun

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:50 AM

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the leo has good gun handling and dpm that is actually above its peers and not 0.1 sec better. Leo also gets a few troll bounces

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the problem is the cdc's gun handling is absolutely garbage for a tier 8 medium with 225 alpha.

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:51 AM

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Well Idk about the exact stats, I just enjoy the CDC. But I prefer T49 over it for the fear factor and LT camo

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 2:52 AM

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im not saying the t49 is op lol. It just makes the cdc useless in any game where both are present

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 2:53 AM

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True it’s annoying when one tunnels you and no one helps

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 3:17 AM

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But it’s more of a team problem than a balance problem

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 4:20 AM

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Yall really hate the sp1c huh

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Since all the nerfs its got, best way to handle spic is acting like it doesn't exist

tranquil wadi Mar 6, 2019, 4:37 AM

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I remember the old glory days of the sp 1 c lol

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Crazy fast autoloader and super fast

teal olive Mar 6, 2019, 4:45 AM

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@twilit crystal why you upset about the jag buff? It’s not a huge buff and the thing is one of the worst performing tanks at Tier Ten. I don’t really think it will make much of a difference, but sidescraping in it will be easier due to the big gun arc buff

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 4:53 AM

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because i dont want more idiots in tier X tds.

dim field Mar 6, 2019, 4:59 AM

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As opposed to being idiots in meds?

teal olive Mar 6, 2019, 5:09 AM

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True, very annoying when there’s a jag sitting in the back

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 5:09 AM

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implying they wont continue to sit in the back. When people see td they refuse to do anything but snipe

dim field Mar 6, 2019, 5:30 AM

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An idiot player is going to be an idiot player no matter what tank they're in.

versed night Mar 6, 2019, 5:34 AM

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Will there be a jageru buff soon?

teal olive Mar 6, 2019, 5:37 AM

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Yes, nothing huge but a bit of a buff to dispersion and turret arc

indigo knot Mar 6, 2019, 6:39 AM

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I really wanted a buff in terms of mobility for jage100

hushed saffron Mar 6, 2019, 7:11 AM

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jag gun arc buff very good

versed night Mar 6, 2019, 7:31 AM

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5 km/h more would be awe

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 8:51 AM

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4° extra left and right is very good

haughty latch Mar 6, 2019, 8:54 AM

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Easier to sidescrape

elfin marlin Mar 6, 2019, 9:51 AM

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When will jageroo buff come out?

lunar niche Mar 6, 2019, 11:33 AM

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A bit of traverse would be helpful but i'll take the 12/12 gun arc. If a med rushes, it can't turn anyway but 12/12 will be helpful to shoot a moving target without turning the hull.

teal olive Mar 6, 2019, 2:00 PM

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I’m most excited about the gun arc, an extra 4 is pretty nice for the jag and now sidescraping in it will now become effective

tranquil wadi Mar 6, 2019, 3:02 PM

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Still don’t get the pointless HEAT nerf a while back...I’ve only fired HEAT a couple times in the tank but it still makes no sense...

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 3:05 PM

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420 HEAT pen. If that was still in the game, with CS, it’s gonna have 468mm of pen. Which will render all armor save for good spaced armor useless. Sidescraping Mauses are rendered useless

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 3:06 PM

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It was nerfed to 380 a while ago

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 3:07 PM

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Ik

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 3:08 PM

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Is something buffed on Jageru besides gun arc?

shy wren Mar 6, 2019, 3:09 PM

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Gun arc and gun bloom, that’s all.

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 3:09 PM

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That’s nice, really nice
It’ll help it sidescraping

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 3:12 PM

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the point of the HEAT nerf was to make sure you couldnt autoaim mauses

lunar niche Mar 6, 2019, 4:32 PM

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But now, most TDs have 400+ pen due to CS.

drowsy plaza Mar 6, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Or you could not use CS and aim. None of the TD’s except the HESH Monster need it.

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If y’all think the CDC is bad currently , I played it two buffs ago... It was worse than awful

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 5:01 PM

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CDC is a noice tank I just hate how common it has become

exotic pelican Mar 6, 2019, 5:03 PM

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that's why I use my T-34-3 over my Type 59, or my FCM (or Revalorise) over my CDC

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 5:04 PM

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I wish I could get the T-34-3 during warriors path but not lucky enough :l

exotic pelican Mar 6, 2019, 5:05 PM

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(Type 59)

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 5:05 PM

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Not skilled enough lol

exotic pelican Mar 6, 2019, 5:06 PM

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I didn't get it for free but I got it with $20 worth of gold, not bad of a deal

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 5:06 PM

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And I wasn’t really interested in it I just save for something else.

coarse harness Mar 6, 2019, 5:34 PM

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I don't spend money on the game so i had to make it

📎 IMG_20190306_183230.jpg

spark star Mar 6, 2019, 5:40 PM

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100.01P needs a traverse nerf

exotic pelican Mar 6, 2019, 5:41 PM

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^^^ it someone has better traverse than the KV-5

spark star Mar 6, 2019, 5:41 PM

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even though its getting decimated next patch, it needs more nerfs
it traverses quicker than a KV-4, has stupid alpha damage, still has broken ass armor that cant be penned if youre not driving a high penetrating tank

compact sundial Mar 6, 2019, 5:49 PM

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That's the point of the tank's armor profile. It's literaly a super tank, on of the original drafts of the Maus. To nerf it's armor so a Light tank can pen it from the front (as I've seen quite a few people do) is just ridiculous....

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 5:57 PM

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the vk does make the kv4 useless but the kv4 is bad anyway

indigo knot Mar 6, 2019, 6:02 PM

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I was hoping that Grille would be getting a camo buff or a mobility buff ....but it is not happening this upcoming patch....☹️

drowsy plaza Mar 6, 2019, 6:06 PM

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The Vk 100.01 (P) isn’t a good tank, the playerbase is just incredibly dumb. The amount of IS-X tanks that try to fight it head on is amazing. Or T34/32’s that go into the open to try to fight it.

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Ignore the T28D it got aced at 8 games.

📎 image0.png

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 6:10 PM

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i mean the kv4 is clearly an inferior vk

drowsy plaza Mar 6, 2019, 6:11 PM

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KV-4 was garbage since the Leo line got added

spark star Mar 6, 2019, 6:27 PM

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god I hate the superheavy meta that this game is slowly going into
ranked is just "who gets to club most in their superheavies"

teal olive Mar 6, 2019, 6:27 PM

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Kv4 was always garbage, didnt matter what other tanks were added

twilit crystal Mar 6, 2019, 6:29 PM

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problem is the gun handling is so bad for a 300 dmg gun.

spark star Mar 6, 2019, 6:29 PM

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KV-4 has potential

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 6:31 PM

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To be worse than trash yes that's correct

spark star Mar 6, 2019, 6:31 PM

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unfortunately, the gun has crap on the move handling (which it shouldnt), the tank traverses slower than an oil tanker and its riddled with weakspots that even a tiger P can take a huge crap on it

lunar niche Mar 6, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Superheavy meta truly starts when Jap heavies arrive lol.

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 7:48 PM

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@lunar niche then luckily we wont see a superheavy meta

median gust Mar 6, 2019, 9:43 PM

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Nerf heavy viewrange, make meds useless at flank sniping

obtuse rover Mar 6, 2019, 9:53 PM

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@median gust I strongly agree

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Maybe nerf 30% or 40% of it

unique scaffold Mar 6, 2019, 10:33 PM

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I think the equipment options need to be tuned for individual tank classes. TD's and heavies lose coated optics. In their place they get a spall liner for heavies and something else for TD's.

small flame Mar 6, 2019, 10:45 PM

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I concur

dusky oxide Mar 6, 2019, 10:57 PM

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Maybe also consider nerfing the option that allows for extra track hp.

brisk lily Mar 6, 2019, 11:03 PM

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yay another Sp1c nerf, fun

gloomy dragon Mar 6, 2019, 11:10 PM

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I was wondering if i saw that right. Oh well. Yet another reason why not to play it and its autoloader.

thick rover Mar 6, 2019, 11:56 PM

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@unique scaffold Sounds good I agree

ivory flint Mar 7, 2019, 12:02 AM

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Hey autoloaders are cool. I prefer them to any other loading mechanism. I just wish they had their own version of "Gun Rammer" instead of getting stuck with vents. That and I wish "Improved Control" and "Engine accelerator" benefited lights the most (10% for example) mediums slightly less (7-ish%) TD's less than meds (5-ish%) and heavies less than TD's (4-ish%) not to nerf heavies into the ground, but as a general class of tank I think heavies have been slightly OP since the equipment rework because you can run a particular setup that gives you nearly stock (100% crew full upgrades but no equipment or provisions) medium tank traverse and turret traverse speeds. So you can circle around their hull but you can't avoid their gun unlike the old days of blitz when slow tanks usted to be "slow". It's kimda making lights obsolete (in the competitive scene of the game) because they rely on being not necessarily faster but certainly more maneuverable than their opponents.

haughty latch Mar 7, 2019, 12:02 AM

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@brisk lily Sp1c is getting a buff, not a nerf

novel maple Mar 7, 2019, 12:02 AM

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SP is getting a buff??

haughty latch Mar 7, 2019, 12:03 AM

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@brisk lily intraclip reloading going from 3.53s to 3.00s

brisk lily Mar 7, 2019, 12:03 AM

#

oh
few of my friends said it getting nerfed

ivory flint Mar 7, 2019, 12:06 AM

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I'd like to see it go back to it's original 2.5 seconds. All other 90mm guns with autoloaders unload that fast. Why not the SP? Plus it has to compete with the LTTB. Those tanks should just swap mobility stats at this point.

haughty latch Mar 7, 2019, 12:09 AM

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@ivory flint I think it need that too

ivory flint Mar 7, 2019, 12:11 AM

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Also the T54Liwt is so broken. It has better ground resistance stats than the AMX 13-90. Mind you, the French tank weighs HALF of what the Russian one does. And yet the Ruskie gets technically better mobility and more armor because "why not" the Lttb is the same way in the comparison of tier seven lights too.

long sage Mar 7, 2019, 12:56 AM

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Bc wargaming is Russia bias

paper dragon Mar 7, 2019, 12:57 AM

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Tbh the is4 is so easily penned with hesh

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 12:57 AM

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Because T-54 series tanks have Top Secret hover craft tread technology.

long sage Mar 7, 2019, 12:58 AM

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True

hidden frigate Mar 7, 2019, 3:27 AM

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No, because ground resistances have nothing to do with weight, and everything to do with the tracks.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:27 AM

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@paper dragon Hesh is hesh

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A lot of tanks can get penned by hesh

rare monolith Mar 7, 2019, 4:31 AM

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I’m going to say this now because wargaming won’t direct message anyone, When I started wargaming 3 years ago I was amazed at the scenery and how the game preformed. I played it every day non stop and fell more in love with it as time passed. This is when you had competition. As the competition died off you turned your noses up to money. Instead of focusing on how the game is and improving it you decided to screw up the game and added tanks that are way to over powered. I have one statement and and one statement only to shorted what other people are saying. I’m not going to sugar coat it, pick up your game and fix it I’m done with this. You messed up the game so you could make some money, not like you were already doing that. You are people who don’t give a thought about what the players say who give you good feedback. Do your part and fix a game that many people love but not as many people hate.

brisk lily Mar 7, 2019, 4:40 AM

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@rare monolith when u mean Wargaming as a game you mean WoTb right?

rare monolith Mar 7, 2019, 4:41 AM

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Both pc wot but mainly wotb the one that I play on

brisk lily Mar 7, 2019, 4:43 AM

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So just World Of Tanks

rare monolith Mar 7, 2019, 4:43 AM

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Yea

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Their just messing up the game

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 5:11 AM

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Pretty bad stats for premiums tbh

hushed saffron Mar 7, 2019, 6:39 AM

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lol how do classify bringing in OP tanks breaking the whole game, That’s 1 very minor aspect of the game, And second give me 1 tank that’s game breaking and in every match it ruins the whole experience, I cannot think of any tank at any tier. and besides if u think like WZ120 FT for example break the game then be happy it’s very rare and not many people have it. your logic here does not make sense and your dwelling on the wrong part of the game that should be improved or fixed.

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u will never have a perfect game, And balance right now is fine. play tier 10 if u want a tier that’s balanced

indigo knot Mar 7, 2019, 12:04 PM

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A camo buff to Grille will be nice.....in 5.7 charts its again so low in win rate

brazen flax Mar 7, 2019, 12:07 PM

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Why they gonna nerf T71?

It is not a relevant tank.

shy wren Mar 7, 2019, 12:09 PM

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Um, they’re buffing its clip reload to 10s

indigo knot Mar 7, 2019, 12:09 PM

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Aren't tier 7 lights getting there long awaited buffs???

shy wren Mar 7, 2019, 12:09 PM

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They all are, but the Bulldog’s DPM is starting to look a bit crazy

deft owl Mar 7, 2019, 12:26 PM

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Time to buff leopard 1.

📎 5.7_-_tier_10.png

grave bear Mar 7, 2019, 12:44 PM

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nah, it has better overall stats than T62a. a bit worse wr but way better avg dmg. so what? buff T62a? that's stupid ;) the difference is really small.
the lowest ever tier X avg dmg tank is at 2450 dmg, the highest at 2800. this means a tank that is put at 1/2 far from the best tank, is balanced . the problem is only the worst. Fv183 has the worst WR by far, it needs a buff, not leo1

#

JG.PZ in particular needs a really huge buff. it's probably the worst tier X. lowest average damage ever, and less than average wr.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 12:46 PM

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the 183 doesnt need a buff. A It should stay as a bad tank and that should be the price of playing it

grave bear Mar 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

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it doesnt need a really "buff"
it needs a Rebalance.
it has ok average damage, and horrible wr.
this means it cant do nothing in battle for winning, can only spam damage. make it faster and and give it better min accuracy, then give the worst by far accuracy on the move, and nerf the AP/HESH pen. in this way, noobs will use it as they do now, but pros can carry, but only involving skills in it, the actual FV183 is only a random roulette no skill stupid tank, basically, with that horrible accuracy and op pen, you're going to pen only if dispersion RNG wants it.

giving to it better min accuracy and worse pen, means that a noob that shoots randomly is going to bounce or miss, a pro that shoots good is going to pen, by aiming at enemies' weak spots, not at the whole tank.

brazen flax Mar 7, 2019, 12:51 PM

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@shy wren oh lol the news i did read said were nerfs lul

sage shard Mar 7, 2019, 2:55 PM

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The 183 doesnt need any buffs , its just the noobs who are rushing up that Tier and instantly getting the 183 without any special knowledge

ivory fractal Mar 7, 2019, 3:06 PM

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Rushing the 183 line? Lol I wish I did, I ground out that line mostly stock

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 3:23 PM

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its pretty clear the 183 cant be balanced and should just be removed entirely(No collector) and just give players the badger and some free xp.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 3:24 PM

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The 183 has always had the worst WR, but the DPB used to be the highest at tier X. The nerf has brought the average damage more in line

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 3:25 PM

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The problem is if you make it an average tank (Worst WR but highest DPB) it gets spammed every match. You nerf it and the spam slightly goes down(not by much) but the tank is now very bad winrate wise. I still say it needs a 0% credit coefficient with 15k HEsh shell and 5k ap shell costs

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:28 PM

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It’s just so obvious that it doesn’t belong in blitz

#

The alpha and hesh pen are too ridiculous and hinder any concept of it being balanced

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 3:33 PM

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replace it with the badger, fits more in the line and playstyle of it

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:35 PM

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Every tier x Brit has been replaced on pc

#

We need it here

#

215b has the best gun in blitz but it’s forgettable other than that

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 3:36 PM

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but dont replace it with the fv 4005

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:37 PM

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4202 is always good but not great. Poor thing has been buffed and nerfed so many times, I have no idea what the original even was

#

It’s pretty clear that 183 mm guns are not what blitz needs so I agree. No 4005. Bring in the badger

ivory fractal Mar 7, 2019, 3:38 PM

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@tacit mulch they will NEVER replace the 183 with the fv4005,so don’t worry

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:39 PM

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I would make current tier x tanks collector tanks and move the 4202 to tier 8

#

Also you’d get the tier x replacements for free

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:40 PM

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Why replacing 215b tho (the heavy one). There’s only 3 rear turreted heavies at tier 10 and this one has unique playstyle. I don’t want a second Conqueror at the end of the line

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:40 PM

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Because the 215b has been power crept into obscurity

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Not as bad as the is7

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Remember that way back when, the e100 had 2400 hp and the 215b had 2300

#

Both lost 100 hp and both are now somewhat lost in tier x

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:41 PM

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Then buff it back
But Super Conqueror would be boring

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:41 PM

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I disagree

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The 215b takes module damage like nobodies business and it can’t reliably side scrape

#

It’s literally just a gun

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:42 PM

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Then buff its module HP and why can’t it sidescrape, I’m pretty sure we can buff this too

quick lichen Mar 7, 2019, 3:43 PM

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It can side scrape on paper

#

Not in reality

#

The 215b hasn’t been touched in 2 years

#

They’re not going to buff it

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:44 PM

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Well but why
Isn’t there something we could buff
Well the SP 1 C has been untouched for 2,5 years and I heard it was going to be slightly buffed in 5.9, there is hope for 215b.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 3:51 PM

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coz the super conq is basically a better 215b lol. Better depression and hull armor

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 3:52 PM

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yo le chat

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 3:52 PM

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Well, we all agree, 183 needs to be removed

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 4:08 PM

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Yes. I dont care if the 183 gets removed and having the new tier ten given to me would be very nice

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:11 PM

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Well I think t-62 should get more gun depression

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:11 PM

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?

meager spruce Mar 7, 2019, 4:11 PM

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@fast meteor you are not with your right mind...

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

#

I personally say i dont like less gun depression tanks

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:12 PM

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Then use a different tank

meager spruce Mar 7, 2019, 4:13 PM

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Me too but russian meds are an exception. They are just fine as they are right now. T62 basically has everything except gun depression ...

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:13 PM

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Obj 140 on the other hand feels way more comfortable

meager spruce Mar 7, 2019, 4:13 PM

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has 1 more gun depression but T62 has more turret armor and higher penetration.Therefore if T 62 gets a buff It would get crazy good

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:13 PM

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T-62 has gotten enough buffs. It basically has a laser gun now.

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:13 PM

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140 has better Hull armour and while using heat at t62 turrent it gets pen

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 4:15 PM

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No. T62 hull is better

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:15 PM

#

But it can be penned by an Mt using calibrated shells

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 4:16 PM

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Hardly. 140 has weak spots

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:16 PM

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140 Hull > T-62 Hull

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 4:17 PM

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Not in this galaxy

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:17 PM

#

Yes that's true but 121 surely needs a buff

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:17 PM

#

140 is better

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:18 PM

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Wz 121 needs an reload buff or give it a good armour

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 4:18 PM

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Question of taste. I used to prefer 140 cuz better depression. But I know like 62 more cause of increased pen. Both are pretty similar tho

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 4:19 PM

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140 has better hull because of better sloping

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:19 PM

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I believe that you are mistaken. The 140 has a much better hull than the 62.

#

^

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 4:19 PM

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Let’s agree that we désagree 😹 then

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:20 PM

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140 Hull better better speed...and almost same shell velocity

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 4:20 PM

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That’s like disagreeing over whether the sky is blue lol

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:21 PM

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Just I think 62 should get 6 degrees of gun depression than that would be balanced

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:21 PM

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~~Shut the~~ t62 with same gun dep as 140 would make 140 completely irrelevant

spring pelican Mar 7, 2019, 4:22 PM

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learn to play it and dont complain its balanced

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:22 PM

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Well dont teach me I have 2.8 k avg damage in it @spring pelican

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:22 PM

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Then it's only adv would be mobility

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The only tier X medium that could use some love is the 4202. It really could use a buff to the turret armor.

#

I feel like that would make it decent but the hull armor would need to be dropped a lil

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:24 PM

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4202 yeah

spring pelican Mar 7, 2019, 4:24 PM

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@fast meteor then dont complain

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:24 PM

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121 needs a little bit of love to its gun imo

#

That's fine. I don't depend on hull armor when I'm ridge fighting.

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:25 PM

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Am not complaining to u tbh

spring pelican Mar 7, 2019, 4:25 PM

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yea nerf hull armor and add turret armor and its ok

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:26 PM

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If 121 gets a buff it would be great

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:26 PM

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Or just add the Action X and turn the 4202 into a tier 8 premium like they did on PC.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 4:26 PM

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Our 4202 is better than AX though statistically

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:27 PM

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If 4202 gets turrent armour than it would be op I think

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 4:27 PM

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Same speed, has the HEAT gun, but it has better armor on both the hull and turret. Only advantage AX has is that it looks sweet

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:28 PM

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@fast meteor if hull armor would be nerfed it wouldn't be op

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:30 PM

#

Or give it more pen?

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:30 PM

#

?

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:31 PM

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Like more hesh pen like 330 lmao

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:32 PM

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Nah. Just a smidge more armor on the turret.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 4:32 PM

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330 HESH pen would be essentially like having a really OP HEAT shell

fast meteor Mar 7, 2019, 4:34 PM

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E50m upper hull with hesh

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 4:37 PM

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@orchid grove. I saw your point about the Action X and I counter with looks are their own kind of stat. And the Action X comes out ahead in that department.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 5:09 PM

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Where the hell are half of the tier 8s in this new 5.7 data? I find it somewhat interesting that the WZ-120-1G FT (for example) hasn't been in the last couple, including this latest one.

lunar niche Mar 7, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Probably overperforms compared to all tier 8 tanks.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 5:13 PM

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'probably'? Best laugh I've had all week...

distant river Mar 7, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Its only tanks which take up more than 1% of battles i believe

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 5:14 PM

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Hmmm, I think it'll be in the next one then, considering how many have been around after the additional 2 chances people have had to get it since it was initially sold...

lunar niche Mar 7, 2019, 5:15 PM

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I don't play much tier 8. I have it but don't play it really.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 5:16 PM

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If this latest chart isn't concrete evidence that the 183 is absolutely terrible, I don't know what is.

#

It's the only tank in all of the 3 charts with an average winrate LOWER THAN THE MINIMUM WR OF THE PLAYERS IN THE SAMPLE... It now has much worse average damage too.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 5:21 PM

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@atomic hound in order to be in the balance chart, a tank has to have been represented at least 1% of the time, or at least once every ~7 battles

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 5:23 PM

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I know that now, yeah, my fault for not reading it closely, I hadn't noticed that the titles were in English for the last two sets of charts now, so I hadn't looked. @orchid grove

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 5:44 PM

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The wz 120 ft definitely overperforms but even though its been available like three times you dont see them that often tbh

feral kayak Mar 7, 2019, 5:47 PM

#

hi guys

balmy cipher Mar 7, 2019, 5:48 PM

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vk 28 01 should be buffed it should have a faster reload and more gun depression 👍

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:01 PM

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No its a good all-rounder light tank

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The fv215b 183 should get a slight traverse/speed buff because right now you get spotted before you even get into position, thats why it's hard to win alot of games in it

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And @atomic hound I agree, the avarage winrate on my account is ~58% but in my 183 it's just ~45%

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:08 PM

#

Buffing the tank would be quite controversial. Theres very few things wargaming could do to make it balanced and not too weak, or too strong. As said above, I much prefer it got replaced, and owners of the tank will be compensated with the new tank, hopefully the badger.
@unique scaffold I agree, the 4202 just needs a turret buff to make the turret more trollish in nature, rather than just paper with the occasional rng bounce

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:08 PM

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Just remove the premium hesh and buff the gun back up, and give it a little more camo. It was super accurate hesh that was the issue, so just remove the hesh rather than the accuracy.

compact sundial Mar 7, 2019, 6:09 PM

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So what would replace it then?

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:09 PM

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Removing hesh would make it another tank, the hesh alpha is the only reason to get the tank

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:10 PM

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So? It needs a rework, that much is blindingly obvious. Simple buffs and nerfs don't work, the whole concept is broken. It already had the worst wr of all tier 10s before they nerfed it

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

Yet before the nerf it was actually fun to use

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:11 PM

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The 183 doesn't need a buff. Honestly all it needs is a limit of two TD's per team. One 183 isn't a big deal. Two 183's backed up by some other TD is too much.

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:11 PM

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Because it was broken.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:12 PM

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I dont know if it was broken, I only got to play 5 battles in it before the nerf

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:12 PM

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Good 🤣

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:13 PM

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@unique scaffold most TDs encourage campy gameplay, and while I think a limit of 2 would help, this has absolutely nothing to do with the 183 being broken. It isn't a good tank, that needs fixing.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:13 PM

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Im just saying out of experience it could be a bit faster

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:14 PM

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Idk how anyone can make the argument that the tank is anything but critically underpowered at this point, which seems to be where you personally want it, correct me if I'm wrong.

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:14 PM

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It was broken before the nerf. The camo was ridiculous, especially compared to other tanks. The traverse combined with a semi traversable turret was also the same. The nerf toned it down heavily. It needs removing. There is no way to make it balanced without taking away the actual concept and why you would get the tank in the first place

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:14 PM

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My point being that in my opinion it's "broken" factor only really becomes apparent when there are multiple tank destroyers per team.

A lone 183 doesn't concern me.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Again, you've missed the point. It isn't there to concern you. The tank shouldn't be as bad as it is.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Well nerfing it took away the whole fear factor of it being on the enemy team

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:15 PM

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3 tank destroyers covering multiple approaches on the small maps that Blitz has is the problem.

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:15 PM

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smh mines with three td cap

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:16 PM

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@atomic hound I'm fine with any adjustment that makes players less likely to play tank destroyers.

📎 2uurkt.jpg

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:17 PM

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You still aren't getting it. That is a completely different issue. The 183 is a terrible tank even when the situation currently favours it more than it would in a situation you're proposing. It needs to get better without being game breaking, not worse.

To your previous post, not the latest one @unique scaffold

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Well the 183 is the only td line I took tbh

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:17 PM

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I do get it. It's terrible. It should be terrible. And I hope it continues to be terrible.

I just saw your response 🤦‍♂️

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:18 PM

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Exactly my point. You're biased, your contribution to the discussion is therefore imho negative.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:19 PM

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I am biased. I'd like to think my contribution is neutral but to each their own.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:19 PM

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I wouldnt say so, he is giving a different perspective to the tank

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:20 PM

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I think a degree of bias creeps into every post on here. At least I'm honest about it.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:20 PM

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Nah, he (?) Is simply hating on it, that isn't helpful towards game balance (look at the title of the channel)

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:20 PM

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And I am biased for the tank because I play it.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:21 PM

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I think that the number of TD's per match is a balance issue. Anything that motivates players to shift away from tank destroyers is in my opinion a improvement to the overall balance of the game. Perfectly relevant.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:21 PM

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I'm neutral, I don't play it, I don't hate it, I certainly don't like it, and I'm looking at the empirical data and saying it needs a buff, or a complete rework.

@unique scaffold that it may be, but it has nothing to do with the 183 being terrible

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:23 PM

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Let's make all td's have a low credit coeficient so you cant play them all day

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:24 PM

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I take it you've never played the 183 lol

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:24 PM

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I have but im saying all tds should have the same credit loss con

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:25 PM

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What's to stop players who have a ton of creds

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:25 PM

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Exactly. Credits are abundant.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:26 PM

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It would give more reason to play mediums, heavies and lights

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:26 PM

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It really wouldnt

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I don't think the data tells the whole story. The 183 is almost universally hated by those who aren't driving it at the particular time. This causes them to be singled out with extreme prejudice when spotted. If spotted early they are killed fast. Now the team is down a tank and more likely to lose. If they hide in back sniping they may be getting damage but it isn't always effective damage. They are just shooting whatever is visible but not taking guns out of the fight. This to ends in a loss. The 183 is a victim of its reputation and the stats show this. To be honest I'm not sure how you fix that.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:27 PM

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@atomic hound There's nothing wrong with 183 being bad

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:27 PM

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It needs removing case closed.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:29 PM

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As far as balance goes I think that two things would make a huge improvement in the game.

Cap TD's at two per team.
Heavies and TD's lose coated optics as a equipment option. They get something else in its place.

lunar niche Mar 7, 2019, 6:29 PM

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I disliked seeing more than one 183 on red before the nerf as they could shoot and remain invisible. That was the biggest fear factor 183 had imo.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:31 PM

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Im fine with replacement but don't let it be a completely different tank, it should keep big alpha as one of the aspects of it, not the same alpha but still something like the jageroo or a 152mm

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:33 PM

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Why. It shouldnt be similar. The deathstar makes no sense in the line. The badger makes much more sense

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:33 PM

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Then I want a complete refund of the line, I got the 183 for its alpha dmg, nothing else

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

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I'm fine with the 183 as is honestly. All I could ask for at this point is a massive credit coefficient nerf to get the derp addicts to play it less

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Here’s what I think

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Ahem? You already lose 25k credits for 2k damage

sudden pier Mar 7, 2019, 6:34 PM

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The 183's alpha isn't the problem it's the play style it players have that makes it annoying

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

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You want a refund? If it ever got removed you would receive the new tier ten for free. But wargaming have no obligation to refund you over a removal

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Good. Lose more.

There should be zero motivation to play the 183.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:35 PM

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@tacit mulch You clearly didn't play the 183 when it had like a 58% credit coefficient
-50k with a premium account every game lol

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

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No I didnt, maybe it got buffed for a reason

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

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@tacit mulch It got buffed during the update 2.8 economy reworks

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Yeah no I wasnt around back then, as I said, I got it after the nerf

hollow bridge Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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The balance discussion for this game needs a nerf

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:37 PM

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It wouldn't get the hate it does it if couldn't deal 50-90% of the hp of the targets it hits per shot. Remove the hesh.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Yes and also remove maus' armor

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:38 PM

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The tank itself is fine. The problem I have with it is the morons who do nothing but play the 183

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Its overall impact to an entire team is very low, but has the potential to have a huge impact on each player individually, hence the hate and the focus.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

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Again, I don't think many people hate the tank itself that much; just the fact that you keep running into them all the time because of all the derp addicts who just nonstop play 183

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:39 PM

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It doesn't need more than 50% more alpha than the next highest in the game to keep the title of biggest alpha. It'd still be unique.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Well if everyone started using the 7 minutes of the game and not just 3 minutes the 183 could be usefull for the team without a buff again, but that wont happen, everyone will act like after 3 minutes the round is over so they rush

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Not unique enough. I hate the lukewarm approach to balancing where you just nerf the unique aspects of tanks; it makes for less variety and overall a dull game

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:41 PM

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I understand this perspective, but this particular unique point is game breaking.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:41 PM

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I stopped playing the 183 years ago; and all I play is paper tanks now that get HESHed by 183s, and even I won't support an alpha nerf on the 183

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Lets just return every tank to their “op” form then everything would be balanced

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:42 PM

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It is not really game breaking, I only get a hesh pen once in like 5 battles

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:42 PM

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@orchid grove same here. The tank desperately needs a buff, look at the wr, but if you buff it the average damage goes off the charts, like it was before the nerf (and it was already the worst by wr then)

@tacit mulch then you're doing it wrong.

lunar niche Mar 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

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High AP and HESH pen with highest alpha on both rounds. Maybe lower AP pen and alpha and give it some armour or whatever? Just a thought.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

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I believe nerfing its ap damage to 860 and hesh to 1100 would be a decent balance increasing rate of fire .20

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

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@atomic hound thats why it was removed from wot and replaced with the stage 2.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:43 PM

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@proven helm It wasn't replaced with stage II, stage II is its own line; 183 was replaced by the FV-217 badger

hollow bridge Mar 7, 2019, 6:44 PM

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Remove all but tog ii, one tank teams have balanced tanks. Now people will blame MM

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 6:44 PM

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@orchid grove i mean in terms of design and usage.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:44 PM

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Also, if you nerf 183's alpha, what's next? 50 B because it can deal 1200 damage in a clip?

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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50 b needs a buff

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Please stick to the topic I.E. removal of 183 😹

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Buff 50b if should get it soon

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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50 B is fine as is, although I would appreciate a speed limit buff lol

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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To the next person that suggests that the 183 is replaced by the stage 2 in blitz (I see it a lot): 10° gun depression, double the gun arc, more mobility, better gun handling.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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14mm armor*

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Worse armor

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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But larger target easy he shots not to mention cammo

lone warren Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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Yes lets replace the deathstar with stage ii and not badger

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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@atomic hound I'd personally like to see 183 replaced with the pre-buff stage II; if you want to derp me, I should be able to derp you back

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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But I would suggest a slight traverse buff and HESH pen nerf on the 183

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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@tacit mulch @uncut osprey @proven helm I know this, but it doesn't matter to the guy who just got sniped by it for 90% of his hp, does it.

Everything about the tank makes it easier to hit shots.

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:46 PM

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Or decrease 6th sense of light tanks

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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Lol. No @raw oar

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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What do you do when u get 90% of your hp derped back by another stage 2

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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Then you know you have been spotted, say 1s after being effectively spotyed

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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@atomic hound what about not standing in front of a 183 or 4005

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:47 PM

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@atomic hound It does matter. When I'm playing my Bat Chat and I get HESHed by a 183, if it were a 4005, I'd be able to take solace in the fact that I could return an HE clip back to him

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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^^^

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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I meant 6th sense delay

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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@uncut osprey 183s can already do that to each other, what's your point

@tacit mulch besides the point, I don't have to, I've got 6 idiots on my team to do it for me

hollow bridge Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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183 just needs to have the model reduced in size by 33% and given a 4 clip mag

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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And more armor @hollow bridge

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:48 PM

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@raw oar You should usually know when you're spotted in a light tank, or when you might get spotted

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:49 PM

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Then complain about matchmaking more

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:49 PM

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@orchid grove yeah true, but not relevant to the comment I was making. I meant solely that the tank is even better at camping and ruining your game than the 183, not that it is a better tank overall.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:49 PM

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My point is stage 2 is balanced by lack of armor, 183 can bounce shots, stage 2 is a piece of paper that even the lowest he pen guns can pen

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Well just wait untill the 268 v4 enters the game, no one is gonna like that either

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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@atomic hound 4005 is worse at camping because it literally has like .02% camo rating lol

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Often I know because I have 1100 hp less

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Fv 183 could use an alpha buff but a 45 second reload

raw oar Mar 7, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Overall that would push lights to go more scouting

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

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Plus the stage 2 is just as tall as the maus

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

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@orchid grove same as the 183 then. Nerfing camo pushes them further back.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

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@main tulip an alpha buff? What are you smoking?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:51 PM

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183 had ok camo before the Blitz nerf actually

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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@tacit mulch even my noob teams don’t stand before 183. Its more about getting shots while relocating, trying to have a shot, escaping etc u know ....

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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You cant be pushed further back, I can get spotted while in spawn on the smaller maps

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Yeah, but now it doesn't. The stage 2 isn't going to be introduced into the past. @orchid grove

hollow bridge Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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Alpha is ok, just need to increase the bloom to 20% of the map

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:52 PM

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183 has bad camo now, but I'm not sure you understand how bad the 4005's camo is
Like it will get spotted while stationary on Blitz at ranges of like 270M

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Oh and my hit ratio in the 183 is less than 20% while I fully aim my shots

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:53 PM

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@orchid grove it doesn't matter. Just camp outside of the max view range of whatever you're shooting.

drowsy plaza Mar 7, 2019, 6:53 PM

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@tacit mulch that is a you issue.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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@atomic hound There's only a few lines of sight that long in Blitz and most players aren't dumb enough to stand in them at tier 10

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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If 183 gets alpha buff it would at least send you back to the garage, and long reload would make it easy prey to meds

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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It's not when I fully aim my shots

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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The maps are only 500km how much further can u really go and be effective

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:54 PM

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@orchid grove exactly why the grille and 183 suck then.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:55 PM

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Grille sucks because its camo sucks. And it's honestly fine in my book if 183 sucks. It's more of a fun tank for variety; it shouldn't be an actually competitive tank

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:55 PM

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@orchid grove then why are you sitting in the balance discussion.

drowsy plaza Mar 7, 2019, 6:55 PM

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@tacit mulch I have a 73,74% Hit Rate in my 183 @568 battles.

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Personally here is what i would do, scrap the 183 for the badger, add the stage 2 line from wot and end it with the stage 2, so people still have their 183mm derp but not in the form of the 183.

slim rivet Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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No offense but u mad bro @main tulip

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Because I think the 183 is balanced perfectly right now. It's not good, but it's not tragic

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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@proven helm exactly my point from before. You'd just get hit more.

drowsy plaza Mar 7, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Personally I think we should delete all TD’s past tier 6 from the game.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

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Good the derp needs to get hit

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

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I suggest a HESH pen nerf rather than replacing it, you would keep the key aspect but nerf it at the same time

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:57 PM

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@orchid grove it's tragic, let's be honest here. It has the worst wr of all tanks tier 8-10, and below the 55% that is the minimum career wr of the players in the sample, and it isn't even close.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

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The average damage is still in line with the rest of tier 10 though; and 183 has always had the lowest WR at tier 10

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 6:58 PM

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@orchid grove clear indications that it needs a rework then, just as I've been saying.

Buff it and the average damage just goes too high, but the wr stays garbage

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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You can't rework 183 without destroying the nature of the tank; which would result in less variety, which is why that would be stupid

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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Rework by being replaced

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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Let’s buff 183 AP alpha to 1050, HESH alpha to 1700, nerf reload to 40 seconds, nerf hesh pen to 175, nerf accuracy to 0.6, make the bloom horrible

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 PM

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Yeah so let's try to get the wr up without affecting the average dmg @orchid grove

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

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The only feasible solution I see would be to make 183 more of a frontline tank by buffing the armor, but nerfing the RoF and accuracy further

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:00 PM

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@orchid grove I disagree, the tank just needs to change into something else. It shouldn't exist how it is now.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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@atomic hound Change it into what? You can't really rework 183 without fundamentally changing the nature of the tank. This is why I have a problem with your suggestion

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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No one has even reacted to the idea of the HESH penetration being nerfed and the traverse being buffed

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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@orchid grove I'm saying IT NEEDS TO HAVE ITS NATURE FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED. As it is it's broken.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:01 PM

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@tacit mulch Oh hell no we're not buffing the traverse back. 183 used to have the best traverse of all tier 10 TDs and a turret making it basically unflankable, which was really fking stupid

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Why not stage 2 then?

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Explain the change then @atomic hound

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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@orchid grove when did I say buff it into being op again?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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@atomic hound But that would be stupid because it would be removing the variety from the game you moron. Less variety is less fun.

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:02 PM

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I’d prefer it if the 183 could basically oneshot tanks but the reload was so long that you’d get killed by mediums before you can reload

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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@main tulip No.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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I think youre describing artillery lol @main tulip

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:03 PM

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And make the accuracy so bad that there’s no hope of being able to camp

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

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That sounds like something only a noob would suggest. He's not good enough to land more than one shell anyway, and he hates "campers" @main tulip

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:04 PM

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Why would you improve its best aspects more and nerf its cons aswell? Seems like a bad solution to me

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

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Exactly that’s what it should be except it can’t shoot over stuff

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:05 PM

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@uncut osprey I'm no dev, but I'd remove the premium hesh, then buff the RoF slightly. Then either give it a marginal camo buff, or a little more armour.

@orchid grove just because you personally may not enjoy it doesn't mean nobody will. It would still hold the title for highest alpha, and the non-premiun hesh would still do 1300 damage to sides of meds, and light tanks. Variety is only good if it isn't breaking the game. It'd be like putting the wt auf e100 into the pc game, and then saying -you can't nerf it, that what makes it unique- even though it's unique point was to clip anything out, which was so game breaking that nothing short of removing it entirely fixed it.

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

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Lot of bad ideas in here...

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

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@orchid grove I’m no noob but it provides increased variety in gameplay and that’s always good imo. The alpha gap between gun calibres is far too low in blitz

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

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Nerf its HESH pen and buff its top speed and maybe give it a smaller model

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

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That defeats the whole purpose of getting the tank then without that hesh pen, then its just another camping td with its 330 ap pen

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 7:06 PM

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@unique scaffold any thoughts on the stage 2?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:07 PM

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First off, 1300 alpha is far from game breaking; secondly, nerfing the 183s alpha would definitely be removing variety from the game. Why would anyone play 183 when they could play jgpz E-100 for basically the same alpha but with way more armor? @atomic hound

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

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@uncut osprey yes, it does.
@unique scaffold go on then, what outrageous thing did I suggest to change? I already said I'm not a dev, and all my proposals other than hesh removal were incredibly minimal.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

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again I think the 183 is probably good enough RN(it wasnt op before but it punishes idiots who only want to camp by killing their winrate) However it is UP overall and I hate seeing them on my TEAM(this does help my winrate overall though) A buff would only increase spam. I could agree with a possible frontline buff by giving it kv2 levels of accuracy but better armor

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:08 PM

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"Other than HESH removal" lmao....

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

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What if we remove ap, have he as standard and hesh as premium?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

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Right; that's like saying I want to nerf the Maus by nerfing its turret traverse by 2 degrees per second, and its pen by 2mm, and also reducing the armor to 50/50/20. "Other than the armor removal, my proposals were incredibly minimal"

woeful tendon Mar 7, 2019, 7:09 PM

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Than ur smoking crack

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

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@orchid grove a turret and more mobility, different playstile, better standard HE. You may not want that, sure, but you already said you don't play it anyway.
And Spartacus said lots, not one.
@uncut osprey you wouldnt need the calibrated shells with no hesh, the pen would drop a bit.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

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By nerfing the HESH pen you are basically nerfing the alpha without touching the alpha, people will have to work to get a HESH pen but it can still pen sides of alot of tanks

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

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Also give it a 0% credit coefficient capacity with 15k hesh shell cost and 5k ap. . You shouldnt have the ability to break even with the 183 and should be punished heavily for playing a tank generally bad for the meta

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:10 PM

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@orchid grove I'm mostly suggesting buffs here, don't be ridiculous.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

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Who doesnt use cs anyway on every tank in tier 10 tho, nobody want the .20 rof u get with a rammer

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

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@twilit crystal you can't break even with it at this point

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:11 PM

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@atomic hound And while you're at it, why don't you suggest the removal of the HE shell from your beloved KV-2?

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:12 PM

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Lol

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@atomic hound you were arguing the hesh should be removed.

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:12 PM

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@uncut osprey having a rammer reduces the reload by a second on the 183, pretty significant if hesh pen want a concern
@orchid grove no, and I played that tank as a new player, sold it ages ago. Nobody gives one about low tiers anyway, notice how that data isn't published about wg to talk about.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

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1 second when u have a 20 second reload, that really helps

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:13 PM

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Yes, it does, a bigger absolute change than any other tier ten.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

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with a premium account you can.(it has one of the highest credit coefficients)

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:14 PM

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Thats because its rof is so bad, it still isnt a better option over cs

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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@atomic hound Right, because 183 players are definitely firing within a second upon reloading

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Anyone would use a CS in the 183. Saving 1-2 sec of the reload isn't worth being able to pen heavies frontally.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Yeah it has a big credit coefficient to compensate for the shell cost, also let me try to break even using it with a prem account ill be back in a bit

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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All tier X TD’s except the 263 have too low alpha and too high RoF imo, makes it too hard to punish them with meds after they’ve fired bc reload is so fast

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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@orchid grove it can make a difference, that is all I was saying. The ap pen is already high enough without cs anyway, so I personally wouldn't take CS if not for the hesh.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Yeah it should lose dozen of thousands of credits. Each game should set you back 100k credits IMO That would stop the spam. Whats wrong with my idea?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

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First off, the credit coefficient is not "big", it's 80% which is not good. Secondly, what me and wannabeunicum want is for the 183 to be almost unplayable for extended periods of time so that the nubs will stop spamming it

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:16 PM

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^^^

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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@twilit crystal maybe it's not a good idea because the alpha and such will stay the same

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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the average 183 player is the sub 45er who camps in the back and gets a shot off and dies but still does 1k or 2k dmg(its very easy to counter at the end but nubs spam coz it gives them a lot of dmg) therefore make sure the nubs cant play 20k battles in it

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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@orchid grove then you already have your wish, but that has nothing to do with balance, which happens to be what this channel is about.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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Credit coefficient is very much a balance tool

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:17 PM

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I want 183 to be removed simply bc I want to go up the AT line but I don’t want the 183

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

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The 183 is balanced statwise but not mm wise.(it wreaks havoc on mm and gameplay) Therefore credit coefficient nerf is the best . Each game should cost 100k credits IMO

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

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@atomic hound. Geez what makes you think I'm talking about your ideas? Not everything is all about you 🤣

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:19 PM

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I think most reasonable players think 183 is more or less fine as is stat wise; we just want to see fewer of them in the matchmaker; which is why we want the credit coefficient nerfed into the ground

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:19 PM

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You could also make the HESH maybe do 100 less damage than the regular HE, to give them some incentive to use different ammo types

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:19 PM

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@unique scaffold fair do's then, but I didn't see anyone else making any suggestions, and the waves of criticism that were to me were pretty thick.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:19 PM

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no the 183 is balanced statwise. It punishes idiots by lowering their winrate severely and it no longer allows dmg stat padding to the same degree. However nubs can still do 1k dmg a game by tapping once and therefore the only balance is a credit coefficent nerf to 0

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 7:20 PM

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@proven helm. We don't need anymore tank destroyers. Period.

static dew Mar 7, 2019, 7:22 PM

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We need more tank destroyers

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:22 PM

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What we need is autoloader meta 😆

static dew Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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More deathstars

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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The levels of stupid and/or overwhelming bias in this channel are somewhat ridiculous now, I think I'll take my leave.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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Anyway for some reason i have 183 syndrome in my t57 heavy. It doesnt affect the amx 50b I have though.(high dmg low winrate)

proven helm Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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@unique scaffold i meant replacing the 183 with it lol

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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I’m all for WT auf E 100 coming into the game

lunar niche Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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Didn't people get mad that WG once replaced the premium HESH on british meds with HEAT?

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:23 PM

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@atomic hound Considering you literally didn't have a single supporter, I'd say you're the one who is stupid lol

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:24 PM

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Oof

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:24 PM

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What did @atomic hound propose again

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:24 PM

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@lunar niche that was to punish unicums and help pubbies

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:24 PM

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@main tulip He wants to remove the HESH round from the 183 and buff the rest of it

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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@orchid grove ok dude, but if you think that the 5 random people that were here are representative of the entire playerbase... Well... I've made my point.

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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WG really hates fast tanks especially with autoloaders. The biggest bias is the grave digger vs amx 13 57 unload time. Grave = 3 sec 13 = 5

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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I’d be fine with a 2 TD cap tbh, but the 183 looks truly horrible to drive in its current state

static dew Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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M4A1 rev needs a bit more dpm or faster traverse, but as it is right now, the gun and mobility just don’t compensate for the poor armor

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:25 PM

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Well i think im good enough to apply input 😇 @atomic hound

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:26 PM

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it should be more horrible to drive. 0 credit coefficeint

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:26 PM

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@static dew just buff its accuracy and alpha to 350 and 👌

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:26 PM

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All Reavlorise needs is 350 alpha

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:27 PM

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Being a good player has nothing do do with it. 2 of the main people to disagree with me both admitted that they want the 183 unplayable, which is completely against my stance, I want it balanced, so even if you don't agree with my propositions to fix it, they're still wrong, look at the title of the channel.

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:27 PM

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Balanced fv = removed from the game

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:28 PM

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That is certainly an option, sure. At least it's a fair one.

orchid grove Mar 7, 2019, 7:28 PM

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What we meant by "unplayable" was so that fewer players would drive it; not to change the battlefield performance

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:28 PM

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@atomic hound your idea of “playable” is to take away everything special about it so it’s just like every other TD

static dew Mar 7, 2019, 7:28 PM

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@main tulip accuracy is great tho

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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@main tulip if 290 more alpha than all the other ones with similar playstyles isn't enough for you...

And as I've said, I just want it balanced, which I can't see happening if hesh stays, and the data backs me up here. If I'm proved wrong and it can be balanced with hesh, I'm all for it.

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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I've tried like 3 battles and you cant break even with a prem account @twilit crystal

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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Well then, gun handling or slightly more pen @static dew

twilit crystal Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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point is it still should basically be 0

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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@atomic hound not even close lmao, it’s exactly 3x the damage that a T-62A can do which isn’t enough of a difference

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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U cant compare a med and a td

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:30 PM

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You werent saying that a couple of minutes ago

static dew Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Yeah but neverless i still love playing it, it’s playstyle and its looks are so satisfying

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Plus the 62a can shoot 3x as fast @main tulip

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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@main tulip ISU is a tank with huge alpha for its tier. Has 3x alpha of most meds.

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Exactly, but the difference should be 4 or 5x imo

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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@atomic hound kv2 has same alpha right?

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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That would make its dpm like 4500-5000 so no

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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@atomic hound well It’s almost no difference compared to PC, where it’s 750 alpha to 240

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:32 PM

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@tacit mulch yep.

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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@uncut osprey no not like that, lol, nerf the 183 reload but buff the alpha

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:33 PM

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Well @main tulip if you want to play a tank with 4 or 5 times the alpha of mediums at its tier, play the KV-2 and stop wanting more tanks to be the same

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:34 PM

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Still no @main tulip

main tulip Mar 7, 2019, 7:34 PM

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I don’t want to play tanks like that they’re no fun for me but other people seem to like it and I enjoy playing against them so win-win

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:34 PM

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Cuz they are noob friendly that why people like them

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:35 PM

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Then stay at tier 6 like I play half of my games

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Cuz I have 20 tier 6 tanks in my garage atm

unique scaffold Mar 7, 2019, 7:36 PM

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Have you folks solved the 183 dilemma yet?

atomic hound Mar 7, 2019, 7:36 PM

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@tacit mulch oh, and assuming your earlier comment about not saying that a few minutes ago was to me, it is exactly what I've been saying all along. I want the tank balanced, that is it. I don't think it can be balanced with hesh, but if it can be balanced with it, I get what I want, don't I.

@unique scaffold you obviously have a great sense of humour 😂

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM

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@unique scaffold nerf hesh pen, buff speed limit

uncut osprey Mar 7, 2019, 7:38 PM

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Lower alpha, increase rof, slight speed buff, slight armor buff, lower credit coefficient

tacit mulch Mar 7, 2019, 7:39 PM

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Also @atomic hound That message was to Wannabeunicum (I dont want to tag him for no reason). But I didnt tag him in the message so I understand where you come from