No just the 215
#tank-balance-discussion
opal whale
azure scroll
Hi crazys
lone warren
why would the fv215b be nerfed. I doubt they are
opal whale
Wow is that salt?
drowsy plaza
It’s not balanced. It’s broken.
Highest AVG DMG TD in X and worst WR. Explain balance?
95% of 183’s camp spawn and do 1/2 of their damage at the end.
sturdy idol
A camo nerf would fix the 183 in the most sensible way. IMHO
nova orbit
What’s this debate on?
worn sierra
once the 183 is spotted your team is dead
lone warren
Its not defenseless lmao theres a reason its getting its traverse nerfed. It has a semi traversable turret with one of the best hull traverse for a td at that tier. You can get the reload down to 18 secs and challenge a med
nova orbit
What’s this debate on?
worn sierra
in a medium tank you have to move. Youre saying a tank that only needs to hide behind a rock to manhandle a team is balanced?
unique scaffold
@unique fulcrum Yeah I'm stupid becase you have a bad interpretation. Stfu. Discussion is over, you are late and incorrect
nova orbit
Guys, what do you think of Leopard 1, is it bad, is it good?
worn sierra
leo is ok
unique scaffold
@nova orbit Leo is decent if you play it right. It's very difficult to play right bc everyone targets you tbh. I didn't like the Leo. You make one mistake, you're screwed.
worn sierra
id prefer a russian med
unique fulcrum
@unique scaffold theres no misinterpretation when what you said was stupid. It was your words not mine. You are missing some brain cells my guy. Go read what you said.
unique scaffold
Buff me pls I am underpowered
lone warren
You guys might wanna tone down on the insults though
nova orbit
True, in a 1v1, from experience, a Leo can beat most meds because of DPM except T-62A, Obj. 140, and E 50 M, the Russian meds are way too strong when it comes to DPM, the E 50 M has some good armour, getting to its size isn’t all that easy either...
drowsy plaza
@ripe oasis watch your language.
unique fulcrum
@unique scaffold scratch that, i wanna address this part. You’re joking right? I love being bottom tier in tier 9s = more damage lmao. But seriously though. That is a silly thing to say.
ripe oasis
The mm is rigged lol
worn sierra
matchmaker fix 😂
ripe oasis
7 premiums on one team vs tech tanks, seems fair right?
quick lichen
Ok. We are done here
unique scaffold
As long as prems aren’t OP, it’s fine @ripe oasis
drowsy plaza
@unique scaffold MM for tier balancing was fixed with +/-1. You don’t see 5 tier X and 2 tier 9 on one side and 3 tier 9 and 4 tier 8 on another anymore.
ripe oasis
@unique scaffold agreed, but we all know that isn't gonna happen lol
lone warren
Could you imagine +2/-2 now lmao.
drowsy plaza
I miss +/-2, but would need some massive rebalancing to be brought back in.
unique scaffold
@ripe oasis there’s no much OP prems. Helsing, Drac, WZ TD...There’s also OP tech tree tanks
Ergh I was reading :/
nova orbit
:/ people got muted....
drowsy plaza
Let’s face it MM is way better than it has been in the past, but please go take the MM arguments to General Discussion.
lone warren
wz ft and vk p in +2/-2 😂
nova orbit
What can we debate on now? How about, what’s the best tier X? I vote IS-4
lone warren
I think i agree. Though being biased i love my e3
nova orbit
Oh, e3 is amazing, frontal armour is amazing! What is it, 300 mm? I might be wrong... but I love that tank... too bad o don’t have it :/
lone warren
In public games its a monster. So many dont know how to pen it. But experienced players really can mess it up. I remember i once came across this fv215b unicum toon and because i was hull down they kept heshing my cupola and killing my crew!
nova orbit
OMG... that must suck... you just reminded me, FV215b, that tank to me, is probably my favorite after IS-4, the turret’s armour si so good... the hash, on any British tank actually is really strong, it’s all around a great tank I think.
unique scaffold
Let the wheel decide what we should complain about !
A. MM
B. Prem tanks
C. 183 Although it’s going to get nerfed
D. All above and anything else
lone warren
It was my first tier ten. One of my favourite. Love the gun and the armour can be pretty good if you use it right. The rear turret and gd can be awkward which is why i got the mk6. More flexible and less awkward
nova orbit
That’s exactly what bushka said in one video about the mk6! Wow... honestly I don’t have the patience to grind... all I have is the Leopard 1, it’s cool, i guess... it’s fast, gun handling is decent, armour is... omg... worse than horrible...
lone warren
I went like three years with an fv215b and deathstar. I had my t95 for months before i got the e3. My most recent line i did was the fv4202. A great public match tank. Then i got mk6 at christmas. Dont have anything else. I want to get maus and e50 m next
nova orbit
E50M is really nice, the armour and all, gun handling is fine, reload is slow, damage is, hmm, fine... it’s a great brawl tank! Get up close on a heavy! It’s gonna bounce a lot. The Maus is nice, some people say it’s easy to play, it might be, I wouldn’t know... I just find that it’s very good, I’ve been watching some vids on it though, and it seems the accuracy is horrible? Idk if it’s just me, but that’s what it looked like...
lone warren
I have played both on a friends account. Maus seemed to suit me quite well, at first i had to get used to angling but i got the hang of it. I have also tried the e50m and i loved it. Im on the panther ii for the line and i hate it and i know im gonna hate the stock e50 lmao it takes me so long to grind a line. 4 years later i have done four lines with one prem 😂
nova orbit
Lucky... I don’t have any side accounts... (from friends) is it allowed though?
lone warren
I dont think so.
nova orbit
Cause if it is, you should be saying this in the WG’s public chat 😂😂😂
quiet ledge
I actually don't have any tier 9s yet, I have 5 tier 8 and wanna complete the grind of 4 of them and one on t7 and two on t6 that I also wanna finish their grinds all the way to tier 10... This will take years
lone warren
Are you new to the game or
nova orbit
Who, me? If yes, answer is coming in 40 seconds 😂😂
unique scaffold
You can edit messages @nova orbit
lone warren
Actually though i dont know why people say the fv215b doesnt have armour. Sidescraping can be pretty good in the tank, meds bounce off you a lot its a pretty good med killer. And in brawls i face hug and angle my upper plate to one side and i bounce a lot
nova orbit
Yeah, I always thought the FV215b was op...
lone warren
I dont think its op. Its pretty strong if you know what youre doing
nova orbit
Are you guys all on EU?
quick lichen
215b isn’t op at all
lone warren
its just a good tank
nova orbit
Idk, i mean, if you say so...
quiet ledge
@nova orbit I'm on EU
nova orbit
@quick lichen is account trading/lending legal or illegal?
quick lichen
You’re joking right @nova orbit ?
quiet ledge
Which clearly no one reads
nova orbit
No, I honestly wasn’t sure...
So many people do it... training rooms titles go like:
Need an account, blablabla
lone warren
I had a guy messaging me asking for my account cause he ‘lost’ his previous one *
nova orbit
@bold dagger how does WG find out of people are trading/lending accounts?
bold dagger
player reports
nova orbit
Aaah
But people that don’t report and are willing to trade, what do we do about that? No one could ever know...
bold dagger
@nova orbit and if a 15 year old asks an older friend of his that is 22 to go buy him some alcohol so that that they can go drinking, the government isn't going to know unless someone confesses. its not a perfect analogy because its not like some players can trade accounts and other can't, but you get the point
nova orbit
Yeah, I guess...
bold dagger
you could change alcohol to an illegal drug that you could grow at home for instance, or whatever
quick lichen
The fact that you’re asking says something
nova orbit
?
bold dagger
consider this. if there is a way that you could potentially make profit off this game short of making media or being an esports player, its probably not allowed
nova orbit
@quick lichen what do you mean?
eager bolt
Hallo
fiery flicker
The scavenger is op lol
deft owl
@fiery flicker Scavenger is somewhat balanced by crappy prammo pen on both guns.
compact lance
The Moskva is perfectly balanced. Powered by STALINium
unique scaffold
Scavenger seemed like a real turd. Sold it for gold as soon as I could.
knotty finch
Turret armor is pretty trollish. Hull down it's not bad. Certainly there are far worse tier v mediums
compact lance
jovial kernel
M7 is gud tho
lethal spruce
yea i dont think it needs a buff
unique scaffold
@safe quest uhm. Not really
safe quest
All I’m saying is that it cannot do much at all in tier 5 games, more often than not you will bounce a shot and even then if you do get a shot in your generally going to be close up to the enemy so you have a good chance at hitting there weak spots, while they shoot your health by 1/4 each shot. Then you look at the tier 4 American td and see it with good pen and fire rate for its damage, health, and armor. The m7 is weak, and flanking is hard when the tanks isn’t very fast either, but a increase in fire rate would make it much more useful in combat. The amount of times I’ve fought against a m7 and won because of its lack of dpm is unreal.
rain ivy
How about we rebalence the Dracula? Or change MM so only 1 drac per team? 🤔
crystal spoke
@safe quest the m7 is a t4 so it's not supposed to be really good against the teir above it
safe quest
Idk m8, at this point I have more fun in the t28
crystal spoke
The t28 was a fun tank I used to really enjoy it until 5.5
drowsy plaza
Tier 4/5’s now need to play much more support roles when low tier than they did before.
dim field
When you say t28, i assume it's the tier 4 and not the tier 8 td, correct?
crystal spoke
Yes
wide bloom
What do you think a-20 is balanced?
iron lynx
Yes
paper mason
You shouldn't be allowed to buy Tier 9 or tier 10
Or you should be able to buy a tank only to the level you have grinded before.. ex: grinded up to a tier 8, then allowed to buy a tier 8 tank not a tier 9..
Grinded up to tier 9, then allowed to buy tier 9 tanks etc.
slow oyster
@paper mason I really agree with that but WG not gonna give up potential revenue that easily
coarse harness
Enjoy
safe quest
Looking at that dpm really makes me miss the m3 lee, but the m7 will haft to work
coarse harness
And the APCR have more dmg atm xD
hexed gust
WG Devs... Was the muzzle break left off the VK100.01 P intentionally or was it an oversight during graphic design?
deft owl
@hexed gust Not all guns have to have muzzle brake.
hexed gust
You are absolutely correct. Light tanks and TD’s primarily do not have them. Medium tanks often do not either, but sometimes have a counterbalance block weight at the end of the barrel. The schematics for the VK100.01P appeared to have one, like most heavy tanks with big guns that put out a lot of smoke.
Either way, the original question is valid.
deft owl
Wow im not a tank historian but this blueprint shows vk100 has a muzzle brake. Well its wg afterall. Maybe they used another blueprint?
jovial kernel
maybe they just ran with unhistorical guns like they do with 90% of the tanks in the game
iron lynx
Helsing
formal forge
Gravedigger BL-10 Panthers long gun
fiery flame
Our prayers have been answered, thank you WG
elfin marlin
Yeah the game is killed now due to the cry babies. First it was the grill now the 183. Just learn to play and avoid getting hit by them.
183 and grill were fine as they were
tawny sail
No they were not. And you know that
jovial kernel
lol guess we found the 183 driver at least right
unique scaffold
@elfin marlin you are also crying...
Everyone gets a smidge upset when their favorite tank is nerfed. There is no reason to pour gasoline on the fire.
jovial kernel
even if their reasons for liking the tank are well questionable, don't go picking fights with them
elfin marlin
i havent played much in 183...... 12 regular battles and a few rating battles..... so i am not a cry baby, i take the tanks as they are. never ever asked for a nerve on what tank soever. i just deal with them
all i say to the cry babies is: learn to play
unique scaffold
These balance adjustments seem fair and well thought out. I hope to see additional balance adjustments made along these same lines. Good work WG 👍
drifting crow
Hey look at this picture about MM:
If I could even send it WHY CANT I?
Okay nvm I solved the problem
unique scaffold
@drifting crow. Please read the pinned messages.
drifting crow
Wat
jovial kernel
The fact that you just downvoted every single Grave Digger because you could shows immaturity on your part.
unique scaffold
This is not the place to discuss MM. And what IS-6 said.
drifting crow
How?
jovial kernel
How does it not lmao
drifting crow
Isn’t MM put me into this?
jovial kernel
Read the pinned messages that say that this is not the place to talk about matchmaking
drifting crow
I go to General discussion right?
jovial kernel
just whine wherever isn't here
drifting crow
What I’m saying is plz nerf the Gravedigger’s armor
jovial kernel
It's fine dude we all deal with it and it's nothing to downvote over
unique scaffold
Grave Digger isn't a big deal. I honestly don't understand why tanks that require aiming are considered over powered.
Does not compute.
jovial kernel
I feel that just softening or removing that stupid recoil from the shots would be enough.
I can't tell you how many times I've had a shot miss the lower plate and bounce because the Grave Digger driver started shooting.
unique scaffold
Ok now I am angry, I researched Grille long time ago, after 1 week they nerf it to an amoeba, same with T49, now I researched 183 after lot of grinding and efforts, and they NERF EVEN THAT. <put-many-swear-words-here> to WG
twilit crystal
Lol
unique scaffold
@jovial kernel. That same recoil is causing the Grave Digger to miss shots.
formal forge
Jeez kv4 is unplayleble cuz fuel crew etc getting easy hitted also the gun ugh
Im sure it is one of the worst tank ever
quick remnant
@formal forge At least IS-3 is better than KV-4
formal forge
It is like always
proven helm
Is it bad that i am better with the type 58 then the t34-85?
quick remnant
@formal forge What do you think abt St-1 ?
formal forge
@Desmond_Yong95 Stock is meh i dunno full it is gud (i already unlocked the last gun cuz i have is8 already)
But kv4 ugh the worst tank i ever played i gonna skip it it takes me alot rages to unlock the st1
proven helm
What they should do is have the is8 bridge to both the is7 and is4.
quick remnant
@formal forge That's where i was going for ST-1
formal forge
Kv4 is useless armor is useless cuz isnt angled at all gun is the worst of all yes i has an very high pen but the aiming time is an pure garbage and is very big so easy target
Almost played this game 5 years and i know what the worst tank i ever got
proven helm
Fcm36pak40
quick remnant
I'm also going for IS-4 .
velvet hearth
Bad coke 5.7
that's theft, clawing premium armor and getting Collector SCRAP. you have the ass open?
what's wrong with the Fv215-183?
only one damage is good, the rest is under all cannon compared to all others
drowsy plaza
The 183 is a broken tank in Blitz. Due to the traverse, camo and HESH Pen - it generally ruined game play in high tiers after 3.8. Meds lost ability to outspot them - and suffered DPM nerf - while 183 got more accurate and increased HESH pen. 3.8 equipment broken several tanks the 183 was one of them. Now I don’t think the nerf’s are well thought out. Frankly just dropping the HESH pen would have been better IMHO. Now it’s in way more trouble - but can still do a lot of spawn camping dmg at the end game.
late tiger
@drowsy plaza everyone can have their own opinion but I disagree
drowsy plaza
What specifically do you disagree with. In 3.8, the removal of binoculars and the more effective TD cam net gave TD’s a better chance of being unspotted. The 3.8 rammer dropped DPM - which hurt Meds more. While the 183 got a boost to its HESH pen and was given a choice of Vstab or Refined gun - both making it more accurate.
fast ridge
The cost of ammunition is too high in tank above tier 8 Pls do something we can't grind credits without premium tank or premium account to unlock more tanks
coarse harness
There are tech tree tanks, with good credit income😉
unique scaffold
Not at tier 10
Tier 10 = total bankrupt worse than 1930’s crisis
elfin marlin
the only reason why the 183 is getting nerved is by the whining of some players. 183 was good as it is right now. it has been tested and aproved by wg. now it is getting nerved due to med player whom are yoloing to much and being prnished for it by the 183
shell price is to high but it suits 183. it prevents also that everyone is going to research it and playing it
unique scaffold
Still more played than all tier 10 TDs. Don’t consider this a nerf, but a rebalance. It had the highest average damage with the worse win rate. Hopefully this will prevent camping, and maybe rebalance those average stats
drowsy plaza
All you need to do is look at the 183 global stats. Generally all 55+% players do worse in it - and the sub 55% group does a lot better
unique scaffold
@elfin marlin if it was good as is wargaming would not be balancing it in the next update.
IMO aggressive medium play shouldn’t be punished that much
elfin marlin
if reducing the camping, but a td is a camping tank, reduce the reload time than. 22 secs is to long
unique scaffold
TD are not for camping, but sniping. Camping is sitting at one place and waiting for targets to come at you, and as its camo was too good, it could wait and destroys targets easily. Sniping is different. Once you destroyed all targets that you could shoot or they moved elsewhere, you relocate and still assist effectively your team
elfin marlin
an agressive med is not the same as a yoloing med
unique scaffold
22 seconds is fine for a gun that can drop 1k+ dmg
And that 183 could just nuke an Objekt 140 or FV4202 poking his turret over a ridge for 0.5 secs and deal 1500 dmg
elfin marlin
thats what i meant but said it wrong @unique scaffold
@unique scaffold not every shot will be a 1k+ drop
made plenty of hesh shots that only gave me 400+dmg
unique scaffold
That’s when it fails penetrating the armor
elfin marlin
so its not granted to do 1200dmg /shot
unique scaffold
But the accuracy was too good
Pen fail with 242 pen was even hard to do
There should never be a guarantee. Aiming should be required
elfin marlin
not entirely true....
unique scaffold
Rebalance is completely justified.
elfin marlin
time will tell
jovial kernel
Don't need time to tell, chief
unique scaffold
Now I hope they make meds a bit more relevant
Heavies and TDs are the biggest part of the meta atm
Heavies and TD's need to lose coated optics as a equipment option. that would make lights and mediums far more relevant again.
summer notch
The 183 should have a traverse nerf after this update
jovial kernel
Hopefully the mediums aren't between a rock and a hard place as much as they currently are after the 183 nerf
unique scaffold
@summer notch traverse is getting nerfed
summer notch
I thought it was getting buffed
jovial kernel
What
unique scaffold
Nope. Nerfed along with camo and gun dispersion
elfin marlin
to much nerving in my opinion. traverse nerve i can live with
unique scaffold
I think camo would have been enough... But I'll take this 😆
summer notch
I nevermind, I read traverse speed as traverse time, so it is getting nerfed! yay!
jovial kernel
I mean ideally we wouldn't have tanks as broken as the 183 in the game
unique scaffold
I'd like to see the change I mentioned above as well as a hard cap of two TD's per team. Those two changes alone would make for a far better experience at high tiers.
jovial kernel
Also more matches where everyone is the same tier is always fun
lone warren
Why would they buff the already good traverse of a deathstar lmao
jovial kernel
They wouldn't
lone warren
Three tds on each team is so dumb lmao especially if its a map like castilla and all 6 of them are sitting at spawn either side waiting all game
dim field
Just as long as it's not 1 td vs 3meds and 3 lights I'm ok. 3 tds gets crowded but getting swarmed by lights and meds sucks.
lapis shadow
Yet, I’m still waiting for the Badger to replace the 183... It really doesn’t need take that long just to get a replacement tank into the game... Yes the nerf will help in this case but it is better off getting the tank out from the game and adding the Badger to it’s position (this is my opinion how I would sort out of the 183)
deft owl
Yeah give me the fv217 badger.
lapis shadow
Although... do make it that Badger is suitable for Tier 10, since it has the highest dpm in Tier 10 and some really good armour on the Pc version
fringe briar
the credit coefficient of the T-22 needs a buff. Even if I get more than 5k dmg, kill 5 tanks, win, and survive, I still loose credits, I might loose more money than in the deathstar
drowsy plaza
Run a premium account cheapskate @fringe briar 😏
But yeah it’s not the credit printer the Mk6 is. It seems to be more like the M60 in that your credits fly out of it’s exhaust.
fringe briar
@drowsy plaza this is with premium. It’s worse than the M60
drowsy plaza
12 aces so far - only two lost money. But it’s not really a good credit grinder - the 121B and Mk6 are way better in that respect
I rarely shoot Prammo - I probably should shoot more as the AP pen is woeful but the shell velocity is so bad that I miss so many HEAT...
clever mauve
Did anyone realize the kv13 has the same amount of frontal armor as the vindicator???
It may not be spaced but still
unique scaffold
That tank was meh. Weird med-heavy hybrid and IMO situational
clever mauve
I love it it’s a troll against tier 6
unique scaffold
It gets CoD by an E 25. Meh
fringe briar
Wow can't believe they are making the vindicator and predator collectibles. Will there be compensation for people who paid money for them?
odd girder
KV-4 should get little buff
dim field
Why would there be compensation?
So far all that happens it the color of their name changes to blue and when you sell them you get gold. Nothing else is changing. If you want compensation for them you can sell them for gold. If you'd prefer credits you can sell them now.
smoky yoke
Nope people spent a lot of money for those tanks, 2.5k gold is not the equivalent of more than 10k gold spent to get the tank. Since you had to play equivalent of 1k games to get it for free
in less than 15 days I think
66 games a day, that's if you have a good winrate
vapid isle
@smoky yoke is right I have all the researchable collectable tanks and it was such a pain
fringe briar
There clearly is a difference between a collector tank and a premium tank that is why they have different designations. When I buy a premium and wargaming changes it’s designations I don’t think that’s correct, it concerns me for what this means for my current premium tanks, and it makes me weary of spending money buying other premium tanks.. It’s as if wargaming changing the premium tanks people just bought in the auctions to collectibles. You think they would be happy? As someone who spends a significant amount of money on this game, I will now have to rethink whether or not I wish to spend more money on this game by buying premium tanks.
unique fulcrum
@fast ridge I disagree with you. If I can GAIN credits in tier X without missions, boosters, and premium time you can most certainly do it in tier 8. If not then you are not doing enough damage and are taking too much/dying.
unique scaffold
Okay look. WG has always been able to adjust any tank as they see fit. By making a tank collectible that simply means that now you can sell it for gold instead of silver. Personally I wish they'd make every premium a collectible so I could unload some premiums I despise for a nice chunk of gold.
smoky yoke
Well If the nerf the crap out of the tank am not buying anymore premium tanks
Their's a reason they switched all low tier premiums to collectables so they can nerf them. Let them creep up to tier 8 and see what people say.
unique scaffold
They could always Nerf them. At least you were able to get gold for them now.
fringe briar
Collectibles are clearly inferior to premiums. I don’t care about getting credits or gold if I sell a tank. What I care about is a tank I paid money for stay a premium.
And getting 2500 gold when I probably spent in excess of 10k gold is insignificant. Also, we can rebuy premium can we rebuy collectibles.
unique scaffold
Yes you can rebuy collectibles.
dim field
How are they inferior?
fringe briar
For one collectibles can be nerfed and I think their credit coefficients are inferior
final garden
Anko 1200 gold , Kuro mori mine to for 1200 gold but same price and differrnt tiers .
dim field
Premiums can also be nerfed.
I don't know about credit coefficients. I don't know if those change when going from premium to collector status.
unique scaffold
Another thing that needs to be clear is that you did not buy a tank. You bought entertainment. If WG closes Blitz down tomorrow you aren't going to get little models of all the tanks you bought shipped to your house. Buying a item in blitz is like buying a movie ticket. You get entertainment out of it. The only difference that buying a tank in blitz offers far more of a return than buying a movie ticket would.
final garden
In my opiniom its not fair t5 anko for 1200 gold and T6 Kuro Mori Mine for 1200 gold... And Kuro its much better then Anko.
smoky yoke
Name one tank that wargaming have nerfed in any game they had? That was premium
unique scaffold
I can name multiple premium ships that were nerfed in Blitz warships if you'd like. @smoky yoke
fringe briar
No, I bought a digital tank. There is an implied understanding that premiums don’t get nerfed.
This is blitz tanks not ships. Different things.
unique scaffold
@fringe briar no there is the misconception that premiums don't get nerfed. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen.
dim field
Can you show me where it says "Premiums cannot receive changes"?
fringe briar
Oh it can happen that they nerf premiums, But it doesn’t because then people wouldn’t buy premiums. In the same way, when wargaming changes premiums to collectibles it dissuades people from wanting to buy premiums.
unique scaffold
Same developer. @fringe briar
Please show me in the EULA where Wargaming has said they will not Nerf premiums.
fringe briar
It doesn’t say it in the EULA, it is something they have stated openly through their employees. Perfect example, the Kuro. It was a complete error. They never nerfed it. When they tried they changed their mind after complains.
unique scaffold
@fringe briar. Please show me.
dim field
If people stop buying premiums because they are scared of those premiums getting a name color change and recieving gold instead of credits upon selling, that is on those people and not wg.
fringe briar
As someone who is probably in the top 1% of spenders in this game. This makes me rethink spending money in the future. That’s all I’m saying.
smoky yoke
I did some research looks like wows player base is getting ripped off. Since they have a much smaller population
dim field
That's ok. It's your money.
As somebody who also spends money, changing a tank from premium to collector will not negatively impact my spending.
unique fulcrum
V@unique scaffold after spending in excess of a couple grand on this game I really hope they don’t close tomorrow 😂
smoky yoke
Well if you want to spend money on tanks that can get nerfed go right ahead but don't complain when they get nerfed.
unique fulcrum
@fringe briar They reduced the armour on IS6 10mm like year and a half ago i believe
unique scaffold
I'll save you the trouble. There is no statement where a WG rep says that premiums cannot be adjusted.
What has happened is someone started a rumor that others took as a fact and now players think is gospel. WG has always been able to adjust any product the sell. Their failure to do this (even when warranted) has made people believe this falsehood even more.
WG is a company that wants to make more and more money. As such they will most likely be very hesitant to adjust items sold for hard currency in order to avoid upsetting consumer trust. This does not mean that they don't have the option to do so.
fringe briar
I never said they don't have the option to nerf premiums. I said, there is an understanding they they won't because people are paying money for them. Similarly, when they change a tank's designation from premium to collectible, and I paid money for it, it's cause for some concern. It's a slipper slope.
smoky yoke
Wargaming not nerfing e25? skorpion g? after everyone in player base saying it's op . In WOT pc. So what they doing on blitz is just to save face and say they not nerfing premiums but collectables, to keep their reputation up and not scare away future spenders.
dim field
This is getting really repetitive.
Whether a tank is premium, researchable, or a collector is irrelevant as every tank can and may be changed at anytime wg so chooses to. When you spend $$ on a tank you are paying to use that tank. You do not own the rights to that tank.
unique scaffold
And my point is that a "understanding" in the business world is about as useful as a third nipple...on your back.
If it's not in official writing than it doesn't matter.
unique fulcrum
@smoky yoke the scorpion isn’t that OP lol....
smoky yoke
OP in wot pc, it's camo is like fv 183. in pc version @unique fulcrum
unique fulcrum
Ahhh..l I was gonna say lol... the ISU-152 is by far the most scary lol.
smoky yoke
xD
fringe briar
I never said I owned the rights to the tank or that wargaming can't make changes to them.
unique fulcrum
You’re going around in circles now my man just give it up @fringe briar
unique scaffold
Did you not see my profile pic or my name? I'm Party Spock! You can't beat me in a debate. No one can! Bwahahahahaha!
Plus I need to get back to work 🤣
lone warren
typical dwight
smoky yoke
Well what you arguing for is anti-consumer what we arguing for is pro consumer. So you lose in the end of the day.
unique scaffold
I'm not arguing for or against anything. I'm laying out how it is.
fossil crag
@smoky yoke Pretty sure Type 59 was nerfed on PC because it was so OP when it came out.
smoky yoke
Na, I saw forums on that but I think if you read through it , the tank is the same but just power creeped
Nerfs on pc are normally just remodeling of armor by the way it looks so they can't tell player base ,not changing of stats
deft owl
Type59 on pc nerfed but then buffed it back after they released op premiums. @smoky yoke Nope. They nerfed its gun depression which has nothing to do with model.
lone obsidian
did it get nerfed buffed on mobile?
u mates are lucky u get blitz on mobile and pc
smoky yoke
@deft owl give me links course it is not stated in any forums and if it's NA someone would have talked about it
I spent 5 minutes read through many forums and everything is speculation and some people even asked for proof
deft owl
@smoky yoke Because all of them was silent nerf and never mentioned at patch notes.
inner comet
They don't, they get to be collector tanks, so wg can touch them
smoky yoke
@deft owl silent nerf is a nerf without saying but they can't hide game stats after every update. So what ever nerf they did is not available to the public gamers.
deft owl
It was long time ago. I tried to research but couldnt find it.
unique scaffold
Dracula is fine. It teaches players not to wander off alone.
quick lichen
If you think the Dracula is op, what do you think about the helsing @deft owl
deft owl
Its op too.
unique scaffold
I don't see them as a problem. I'd much rather see a team of Dracula's over a team of Hellsings, Lupus, Tiger P, or even Black Princes.
quick lichen
Dracula’s are only op in the hands of good players due to something called skill
Like most of tier 7
deft owl
Sure all edelweiss players are hot garbage anyway.
unique scaffold
@quick lichen. That was the point I tried to make earlier.
quick lichen
Rudy, comet, type 62, drac are all op when used by people who play the tank the way it’s meant to be played
Are you saying we should balance the game around those players?
drowsy plaza
One could argue there already has been that. Top tier Med nerf’s... 3.8 equipment system... +/-1 MM
quick lichen
But tier 7?
It sort of worked in tier x. Now we have is4 and td spam
Not much better honestly
drowsy plaza
Nope not better at all
quick lichen
At least mediums needed a bit of skill
drowsy plaza
The issue with tier 7 is it is a fairly easy tier to seal club. Mediums and Lights are generally more fun - so when better players play 7, generally it’s done with faster fun tanks.
deft owl
The thing is all you guys are saying is the player makes them op which does not prove anything. Wg balancing tanks by looking to statistical data not like your own subjective ideas.
And yeah numbers dont lie and dracula is beating other meds by a large marging. Im not saying it numbers says.
quick lichen
Wait
You just based your argument on stats
Then said it’s not based on stats
Check your wording
deft owl
I always use stats when talking about balance whats the problem?
quick lichen
So a Dracula in the hands of a 40% player is op?
Poking side on to an Su-152?
That’s op?
deft owl
Yes. It doesnt matter who use it. A better tank will always perform better then worse. Its a fact.
drowsy plaza
Not at all
quick lichen
That’s the most ignorant thing you’ve said so far
deft owl
Yes thats why drac has better stats then other meds because its "better".
drowsy plaza
Light armored tanks generally don’t do well with bad players.
deft owl
And this proofs what?
drowsy plaza
@deft owl WG doesn’t release balance data for tier 7. Blitzstars doesn’t sample the entire playerbase
I don’t play much tier 7, but I think the Comet and T-34-1 are better Meds. Dracula’s best advantage is the track repair aspect- it gives some advantages
smoky yoke
T-34-1 is better
deft owl
Comet and t-34-1 generally performs worse. Your own personal ideas has nothing to with balance.Only thing that matters are stats.
quick lichen
How many people played the comet with the howitzer and ruined its average?
unique scaffold
@deft owl
If you put a 40%er in a tiger p and then you put that same 40%er in a Dracula, which tank do you think they would do better in?
quick lichen
You’re also comparing tanks with stock grind vs a premium
unique scaffold
I'll give you a clue, it's the tiger p.
quick lichen
Which further skews the stats
unique scaffold
Some tanks simply have a higher skill ceiling than other tanks. A good player is able to maximize this skill ceiling.
deft owl
@unique scaffold Do you know why wg only looks at players around %55 and %65? %40ers and %70 winrates does not affect balancing.
deft owl
Because %40ers will do trash in any kind of tank and %70ers will do good in even a trash tank. So thats why they dont count.
quick lichen
And 55% is where players become really good?
unique scaffold
@deft owl. You're avoiding the question. What tank would a 40% or do better in?
deft owl
@unique scaffold Your question has nothing to with balance. So im not gonna answer it. I explained it why. %40ers doesnt affect balancing.
quick lichen
The Dracula isn’t an op tank because of its stats. It’s op when used by op players
unique scaffold
Bingo
deft owl
@quick lichen Stats dont lie m8. 😉
quick lichen
There’s plenty of tier 3-5 stat padders in the 55-65% range lol
They’re still awful in tier 7+
smoky yoke
He's right about that
unique scaffold
Balancing skill, situational awareness, and math knowledge is very difficult to do. a Dracula allows a player who has these things to use them to their full potential. That is not something that can be balanced
jade cargoBOT
Full Shane#2074 was muted
smoky yoke
But T-34-1 , Rudy and Type 62 takes less damage that it gives
Panther and T23 got power creeped maybe but I'd never know course I ain't gonna buy those tanks
quick lichen
I guess just nerf all lights and mediums in all tiers and turn it into heavy and td spam like tier x
deft owl
Btw guys let me show you something more. Drac is basically a better t20.
smoky yoke
But fast like ru. Lets just say about of players love seal clubbing in that tank
deft owl
Drac is outperforming t20 in nearly at every aspect.
smoky yoke
I personally think tier 7 if your stats are down is best to seal club cause you can hide it since you will be doing your avg 2k dmg constantly
unique scaffold
The T20 is a tech tree tank that you have to grind out. It's also played by a lot more players the majority of whom don't understand how to use it to its full potential.
quick lichen
Tech tree tanks have stock grinds...
deft owl
@unique scaffold I didnt talk about winrate. Just look at the hard stats.
deft owl
@quick lichen I didnt compare winrates of drac and t20. Im comparing their hard stats. Hard stats have nothing to with players skill or stock grind.
quick lichen
Hard stats determine tank attributes
Not effectiveness
T-34-3 is garbage on paper
I love it on the battlefield
T20 and drac don’t have the same playstyles
unique scaffold
Two tanks that play different roles in the battlefield have different stats. Makes sense to me.
smoky yoke
I don't mind spending a ridiculous about of credits to fully upgrade a tank if they would implement that so we have something other than gold
deft owl
@unique scaffold lol drac can do the job of t20 way better then it.
And yes drac is basically better t20. So you guys still telling me to drac is balanced? Well then there s nothing i can do more since i cant open your eyes with force.
unique scaffold
T20 needs buff confirmed
smoky yoke
That's the bait to get players to buy certain tanks. It has to give player something in return
If most premiums were like tech tree tanks wargaming can't sell it at those ridiculous values
Spending same amount of cash as a triple A game
unique scaffold
Offering something unique ≠ overpowered
jade cargoBOT
Full Shane#2074 was banned
smoky yoke
Muted again xD
deft owl
Btw im not jealous of dracula or anything since i have it myself. This tank is digustingly op. I feel ashamed when i padded my stats.
quick lichen
You’re a good player maxing out a tank
I checked your stats
It doesn’t mean a lesser player does the same
That’s what we are getting at
Only a small portion of players can get everything out of a tank
We don’t balance it off of that 5-10% of the playerbase
deft owl
However there is no chance i would get those stats in t20 or sp1c. Which makes drac op.
wet quail
I only got the dracula in December, so I at least want some use out of it before it’s “nerfed”
quick lichen
Not all tanks are easy to do damage in
unique scaffold
Or makes those other tanks under powered.
quick lichen
Tanks like a bat chat have to work for its shots and damage
deft owl
@unique scaffold It does. T20 is underpowered against dracula.
quick lichen
Meanwhile 183s go afk in a corner and shoot twice a game and do more damage
deft owl
A %70 player in drac will beat a %70 player in t20. Thats not balanced.
unique scaffold
No. Underpowered in general.
#bufftheT20
quick lichen
That’s down to playstyle...
You compared doing damage in a sp 1 c to a drac
Sp 1 c has 300 less dpm and a different role
It’s not comparable
A t20 would be stupid to 1v1 a drac in close range
But instead act as a support medium and flank safely while farming damage for other team mates
Not every tank is supposed to frontline
deft owl
Playstyle has nothing to do when drac is straight out better then t20.
quick lichen
That’s your opinion
It’s not mine
You have to know the limit of your tank
¯_(ツ)_/¯
deft owl
And wg balances their tank with my opinion. Not yours.
deft owl
my opinion is all tanks should be balanced by their stats and thats what they do.
unique scaffold
Seeing how you are on about the Dracula they obviously don't
quick lichen
Drac has the second worst dpm in its class
Off of hard stats it shouldn’t be that great
drowsy plaza
SP1C is OP.
quick lichen
That is playstyle 101
drowsy plaza
Honestly I’d never seen the Drac to T20 comparison, I play them totally differently.
dim field
Play them differently how?
drowsy plaza
But I will say even in some tier 8 good guns the Drac trolls a lot of bounces it doesn’t deserve.
@dim field I don’t get all aggressive at the start in my T20, I typically will trail another med and ‘mestshield’ off them - as it’s a paper tank - the Drac-a-YOLO has speed to get out most the time - and the BS skin that eats HE and HEAT too repeatedly to be accidental. Basically I’m more passive at start with the T20 and then use the gun
dim field
Ah that makes sense. Haven't played either yet
quartz crown
I play all my tanks in a style designed to get value in the first 30 seconds of the match
drowsy plaza
Admittedly I have 97 games in my Drac - I have more fun in a number of other tanks. I play it on anniversaries these days
quick lichen
Unicum mentality @quartz crown
quartz crown
I feel the drac old t49 and vk 28.01 are the most fun tanks in game
drowsy plaza
@quartz crown understood - but the T20 turret and hull are pretty weak - so I will get spots as needed but not push it like one can do in other tanks.
T49 is still great fun - but not as fun as it was with the skadoosh module damage rate
quartz crown
True, my T20 style was abuse the gun depression and alpha and hope for 2k damage in each game
drowsy plaza
I played the whole Patton line pre forum and was a glorious 40% 200+ battle clown in all of them.
2014/early 2015 was good for red to see me in a US med. - I was pretty much free Damage.
quartz crown
I think I’m still pretty much ez clap farm for reds
but tbh this game is basically farming east coast pubbers doing dumb s***
drowsy plaza
Like IS-4’s sitting in spawn sniping.
quartz crown
An art form
drowsy plaza
I had 11 of those today, 3 in one battle. Today wasn’t good for my WR in 9.
quartz crown
Props to the sniping T-49s the most though- they’re the biggest brain players I’ve ever seen. Big alpha = must snipe =
drowsy plaza
It’s kind of funny if it’s a red. The shell slowly arcs over the map and misses by a mile.
rain ivy
Honestly, my biggest problem against dracs isn't the speed, or the gun, it's that spaced armor. It's ate a few too many shots and not damaged the track to make me think it's just coincidence.
unique scaffold
I'll take a sniping non sniping tank over a "I'm too slow to climb that " tank any day of the week.
rain ivy
I mean,the tank gotta be good at something but nothing makes me question how good something is cough WZ Blaze cough when you can't pen the side of a Dracula
As for tanks that shouldn't snipe, my favorite is the IS series heavys as TDs
Sorry for being off topic, just catching up and wanted to put in my nickle 🙂
@unique scaffold I saw a mystical t49 sniping the other day. Loss ended up being a draw as he reset cap last second
Still technically a loss, but everyone loses in a draw 🤦 😪
dim field
Would love if Blaze had an hp boost
quick lichen
Blaze needs 420 alpha 😏
deft owl
Wz-120-1g ft is balanced as the same way as dracula is balanced. Just a thought.
dim field
420🔥
fiery flame
I just find it amusing how some people think that the Dracula is balanced 😂
unique scaffold
I find it amusing that players don't find it balanced. To each their own I guess.
deft owl
If dracula is balanced then wz-120-1g is balanced too.
unique scaffold
@unique scaffold @fringe briar Is right IMO. Wargaming is randomly taking something that you purchased with the assumption it would stay the way it is and is deciding to change it for no reason and calling it a "collectors tank" like oh yay I get less gold than it's worth! No, premiums should not be subject to change.
That's just my opinon tho, I also don't think the WZ is balanced
iron lynx
WZ is a bit too armored for its speed
drowsy plaza
@unique scaffold WG needs to be able to balance tanks properly- sometimes that means a Premium does need to get nerfed for the good of the game. Tier 7 and 8 have some poor balance issues with premium tanks. I’m probably in the top 1% of the top 1% of Blitz spenders - and I can see why that is necessary. Now I think generally WG does a good job with Balance in 9/10, but 7-8 really do need a look at.
austere shore
I think the premiums should be balanced. You should be buying premiums for the profitability not the automatic amazing stats
hoary osprey
I agree
austere shore
Tier 7 and 8 are death for any new player and even some of our older players.
hoary osprey
Sorry to follow u here, but the timer is less
smoky yoke
7 and 8 has really good tanks thou
T29, IS, Wz , ru 215, T49 , IS-3, T-34-1 etc etc Once you grind your tanks play the tanks you like after, don't play the tanks that are so team reliant.
smoky yoke
Armor plus mobility, if you got both ,you will do great almost all the time.
iron lynx
You forgot the tier 8 newbie killers
The Rhm and the ISU
dim field
Isu and Rhm are like Scorpion and Sub zero
analog dagger
Comet is great especially when you brawl with dracs and break their hearts, although I think it should get a HP buff like +75 and a bit more side armor to make it equal to it's German counterpart, the panther
haughty harness
WG why cant you increase matildas penetration
unique scaffold
play the X and IX please
analog dagger
Because it has armor as it's strong point
crystal spoke
Its gun isnt bad pen wise either sure it's got a low dmg per shot but its quick reload is great
austere shore
Comet is great yeah I mastered it stock and everything
My average damage has been skyrocketing towards 2000 in it
lone warren
I didnt enjoy comet much - i much preferred the panther. I did enjoy the cromwell and 7/1 and 4202 though
austere shore
I’ve played the panther and comet but what does it for me is the gun depression. It’s saved my life so many times
fiery flame
Depression saves lives, that’s something new
twilit crystal
183 nerf in a few hours. NUT
unique scaffold
@twilit crystal
http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crazy-dance.gif
twilit crystal
its true. 43 accuracy and crap camo + finally able to flank
unique scaffold
It's going to be wonderful!
sand lagoon
@snow rock hey guy 5.7 121 b rare como ?
iron lynx
Most important change is crap camo
twilit crystal
lol
formal temple
Is 7 should have a bit of buff because iys health is very low for a heavy tank that it gets destroyed in 4 HE splashes from jpze100 an extra 150 hp will really help
unique fulcrum
You’re joking right lol? @formal temple
winged barn
Its speed is very high for a heavy
unique scaffold
Folks I'm not going to lie. I'm super excited for the 183 nerf. Tier X is could actually be fun again!
jovial kernel
yeah
lone warren
Im interested in playing the deathstar after the nerf and seeing the changes
winged barn
Meh. Just made and easy tank to kill easier to kill
unique scaffold
I'd like to offer my pity and remorse to all the Death Star drivers...but as death star drivers I don't think they'd understand things like pity and remorse.
unique fulcrum
@unique scaffold I mean considering the majority of 183 players are absolutely trash It rarely bothered me but I don’t know if this nerf will even affect it much... regardless anything that gets people to spam it less makes me happier. I have not ever and will not ever grind and or play the 183 line
jovial kernel
I'd love to see someone play shotgun 183 in an attempt to get around the accuracy nerf, would be entertaining and potentially deadly
unique fulcrum
I would rather play 1,000 games in tier 9 foch then play 50 games in the 183...
jovial kernel
Agreed, the 183 isn't fun for any party involved
lone warren
Its fun when the 183 driver misses
unique fulcrum
I prefer tanks that don’t get me killed if I miss once lol...
winged barn
@unique fulcrum
Dont hate on the at15
lone warren
I hope following the nerf if it’s sufficient enough they give some love to tanks in the line
unique fulcrum
I don’t like it @winged barn
unique scaffold
As a medium player it infuriated me to have the reds down to one tank, know it was a 183 hiding somewhere, and then get one shot trying to find it.
Had my cupola sniped in my Fatton for 900 dmg trying to find the last hiding 183 this morning.
jovial kernel
I'm pretty sure they didn't actually snipe your cupola and just went for AP and hoping that it'd hit somewhere
unique scaffold
I was showing the very top of my turret. Didn't even have my gun over the ridge. Boom 900HP lost and I'm in the garage.
jovial kernel
ah oof
median gust
lol
unique scaffold
Oof is right
lone warren
183 takes skill
unique fulcrum
@lone warren lol i sense either stupidity or sarcasm
rancid flame
The obj 268’s pen is ridiculous...303mm on its AP, second highest in the game behind the 183, and then it has 380mm of pen on its HEAT (400mm+ if using Calibrated Shells, because penning everything wasn’t good enough for you, you have to be able to pen the upper plate of the E100, too)......I was using it and just punishing an IS 7 driver on mines, he was hull down, doing nothing wrong, and I was destroying him simply because my HEAT butters literally everything, even the upper plate of a Maus.
I honestly felt bad...🤣🤣🤣
unique fulcrum
@rancid flame I don’t like it lol
unique scaffold
Fantastic, only 100k exp and I can obtain the 268 myself too
elfin marlin
183 traverse nerve, accuracy nerve, camo nerve...... then it must get an armor buff 💯
jpe100 is much more heavier and has better armor
jovial kernel
and has terrible camo, less alpha, and no HESH
elfin marlin
centurion 7/1 has hesh but you dont complaun about that....?
so give a better armor to 183 or reduce reload time
jovial kernel
The Centurion 7/1 however, does not have over 900 alpha with AP and over 1200 alpha with HESH.
elfin marlin
no it is an tier 9 isnt it. that is the difference
jovial kernel
The difference is that a Centurion 1 takes off less than half their health with 1 HESH max roll, even if you're shooting a tier 8, while a 183 takes off 2/3 off a tier 10 medium on an average roll. You're actually being stupid.
elfin marlin
says the cry baby whom want the 183 to be ruined
nor does the 183 gets any nerve. the majority can't play it right. only very skilled players are devestating in 183
jovial kernel
Um you compared 105mm HESH to 183mm HESH. No offense but you're not the brightest, are you?
Plus the moment I gave you a reasonable argument, you discounted the whole thing and called me a crybaby.
elfin marlin
you are calling me stupid
jovial kernel
@elfin marlin And you're calling me a crybaby
elfin marlin
not very nice of you
jovial kernel
Not nice of you to call my a crybaby either, it's not like you're so kind or bright.
elfin marlin
i didnt start
jovial kernel
You literally did start the insults though, I came in with a nice long few sentences proving you wrong and you couldn't think up a better counter than calling me a crybaby.
elfin marlin
i dont lie either. reas it all back
jovial kernel
check yourself before you wreck yourself
You not only started the insults, you lied about starting the insults, then lied about lying. Nice.
elfin marlin
@jovial kernel You're actually being stupid.
that is what you said to me. before i called you a crybaby
jovial kernel
But you see with the wording, I said being stupid. Anyone can be stupid without being a stupid person. Being stupid is an in the moment thing, being a stupid person is an in general thing.
elfin marlin
you must choose your words more carefully than, i am not an english person so i can take it the wrong way
jovial kernel
Yes, the one Obj. 140 I saw move forwards and get nuked by a 183 platoon was not a stupid person, they had 3k average damage and a 62% win rate in their Obj. 140, however they were being stupid making the push they did.
elfin marlin
assumtion is the mother of all fck up..... thats a quote from a die hard movie
ty gramma teacher
jovial kernel
Anyways, HESH isn't the problem. The problem is when you put HESH on the largest gun in the game, especially when that gun already has the highest AP alpha in the entire game.
timid thunder
That's what makes the fv fun
elfin marlin
hesh has trouble to do 1200 dmg on a is-7. have shot on a few is-7s with hesh and i only did 400 dmg every time
jovial kernel
don't forget the skill that lets it max roll for over 1600 damage
@elfin marlin anyone shooting HESH in that situation is just actually a stupid person. They can get 900 in with AP
timid thunder
1625...
jovial kernel
@timid thunder I said "over 1600", had you bothered reading the context I said that in, you would have realized that.
Unless that's next level sarcasm and you got me
timid thunder
Yes
jovial kernel
the JgPz E 100 keeps getting forced into the roles of the T110E3 and 183, and it sucks at both roles, so the tank performs badly.
If you want a meat shield, the T110E3 does that better. If you want a high alpha TD, the 183 does that better. If you want a sniper, the Grille and 268 do that better.
also has german RNG so that advantage is completely gone and then some
elfin marlin
800 dmg ap in jpe100 w/ 18 sec reroad. and strong armor..... yeah well balanced
jovial kernel
Also has terrible mobility, less alpha, doesn't have over 200mm pen with HE rounds @elfin marlin
oh yeah I forgot to mention the trash camouflage the JgPz E 100 has
elfin marlin
front of 183 is weaker than jpe100
jovial kernel
JgPz E 100 mobility is tragic, the alpha on AP is less, and the HE can't penetrate over 200mm. Same as I just said.
elfin marlin
and w/ the grill you ammorackt the 183 easuly. yet the grill had 600dmg alpha
jovial kernel
I guarantee you that 183s getting ammo racked almost never happens
elfin marlin
done it several times
not true
i have over 48k battles and have seen a maus getting ammorackt by a 183.. 183 was on the move when he shot. yeah a lucky shot but still....
fossil crag
Saw a Maus get hit for 1,400 by a 183 last week in a tournament. Was a very balanced moment.
elfin marlin
look at a vid from schwalbe. he shot a full hp maus in 1 shot dead
jovial kernel
First of all, Schwalbe is a she, second, you're just agreeing with us at this point
uncut osprey
Lol
hidden scaffold
Tfw the 183 is almost as big as a Maus but has 5x better camo while doing 5x more damage per shot
lunar niche
183's nerf is justified. People complaining about it having no armour have probably forgotten about Grille.
jovial kernel
Nah it was an easy one, I had a nice long elaborate joke about the WZ-120-1 FT that was a full paragraph
cold badge
timid thunder
Amazing
cold badge
also hmmmmm
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373091204038000650/534871760630185985/Screenshot_1921.png
lunar niche
Tank smasher? Wut?!
timid thunder
Ikr
cold badge
no ATGM, as the tank has dispersion values
Even further hmmmmmmm
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373091204038000650/534871572943601674/Screenshot_1922.png
Smasher (Premium tier 7 KV-2), WZ 112-2, and Chrysler K (Has legendary camo already)
Also, the "Smasher" has AP with 170mm ish, HE with 83mm ish, and a HEAT round with 250mm, just like Type 62, and a decent reload too, at 18 seconds ish
ok ok, hold on
jovial kernel
250mm HEAT? That's a that's a turreted TD the heccle
uncut osprey
Im guessing with 640 alpha as well
cold badge
yes, that is correct Bob
jovial kernel
The penetration too tf the SU-152 only has like 130 ap pen
Nice balance
uncut osprey
That should be renamed power creep
cold badge
its very similar to the SU-152, but as its gun seems different, I do not know for sure. Very slow turret traverse and view range though, plus its slower.
jovial kernel
They're trying to replace my bloody Dankenstein! I'm on to you WG
cold badge
Taken from instagram, here is the Chrysler K with legendary camo
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373091204038000650/534814872215617547/Stories_Instagram.mp4
jovial kernel
How dare they give a tier 7 heavy good penetration and more alpha than the Dankenstein
cold badge
we also have a new city map in development as well.
LET ME SPECIFY: The tank does not have an ATGM. if it did, the dispersion stat would be 0, just like the T-49-A. It has a .58 stat though
have your fun, but I dont want chaos going around. HOWEVER: T-49-A will be returning, along with Mad Games, later this year. (Supposedly)
jovial kernel
They're trying to power creep my favorite tier 7 >.>
uncut osprey
.58 dispersion oof
cold badge
(Type 59 event "Warrior's Path" may have 2 rows , one for the tank and one for the legendary camo ,same as IS6 event , as a lot of people already have this tank and might only be interested in the legendary camouflage.
Russian discord suggested that the event will start sometime after 5.7 ,so expect it to be close.)
jovial kernel
Nice
winged barn
Just got some more collectors... before an event tank that I have always wanted
cold badge
More hidden information can be found in game, simply select a tier 5-10 mission, select all vehicles, and scroll though the list. Youll be able to find stuff that I may or may not have told you.
jovial kernel
Yeah
acoustic shard
remote basin
Remove 183
acoustic shard
You mean "Buff" 183
haughty harness
Matilda is now Downgraded penetration
ripe oasis
Nice going wargaming. Not only did you make the 183s gun and speed worse. But you also made the armor so bad that anything can pen it with HE at tier 10. Good job, you're doing great.
haughty harness
lol
exotic pelican
I agree, Wargaming did a great thing nerfing 183
ripe oasis
I was being sarcastic, there's literally no point in owning the thing anymore. Can't wait to see what happens to the jag eventually
exotic pelican
ik, but I still think Wargaming did right thing
ripe oasis
The armor didn't need to be touched, it's going to be so underpowered now. Not only will you lose a fortune playing it but you'll also get destroyed by anything looking at you even more
exotic pelican
You do know 183 used to have better camo rating than Grille 15
ripe oasis
The camo rating could have been nerfed, but I don't see the reason for anything else. Maybe the gun accuracy too (even though it already Misses alot) but they didn't need to pummel it so bad. It has 50 side armor for crying out loud
exotic pelican
183 nerf is 100% good thing, you can't say anything to change my mind
ripe oasis
Now that the 183 is nerfed the Jag is next
exotic pelican
Jageru is balanced right now, no need to change it
ripe oasis
It's still going to get targeted now
dim field
If something has the ability to be one shot just as easily as it can be one shot. I'd say that seems fair.
jovial kernel
the Jageroo doesn't have HESH so it's not going to be nerfed lol
iron lynx
Jageru becomes more relevant now
jovial kernel
probably still not great though
drowsy plaza
JPE has worst HE pen of all tier X TD's - despite having the second largest gun...
jovial kernel
for some reason
the game logic for most HE pen stats that the JPE should have 89mm HE pen
twilit crystal
jgeroo doesnt need a nerf
smoky yoke
Looks like I gonna have to camp harder in fv183 😛
twilit crystal
too bad u got .43 accuracy
smoky yoke
????
fast storm
Again, wargaming didn't create balance in ww2 the USA did. Please add balance good sirs a re as on for lights to even be there
M53/55
iron lynx
This is American glass TD
fast storm
Yes end the camp fest and add some realism.
unique scaffold
This is an SPG
fast storm
They are already in the code in blitz just add the spgs and watch the refreshing results
unique scaffold
They won't added them
deft owl
@drowsy plaza Thatz huw balunce workz on dis game komrad.
narrow pivot
Wg improve ur matchmaking , stopb matching lower tier with higher tiers,uts really frustrating
quick remnant
@narrow pivot then what do you want them to do? Match make the same tier? Evry matchmaking is always like that. He many times hv u played alrdy? U already battle so much why stil want to complain here? I dun understand
How *
narrow pivot
Because for example my tier tier 7 cannot penetrate tier8 tank and if ,and if my tier 8 team doesn't not play well ,i will be losing for no reason,at the same tier we have chances of win
I hope u understand
dim field
If you can't pen or get to where you can pen, aim for the tracks to disable enemy vehicles to make it easier for your team to kill the enemy. Even keeping the enemy spotted can greatly help your team.
empty charm
the problem is rather, there are more and more tanks with more armor, thicker guns, big damage. alone all the many russian tanks. all the historic ww2 tanks (for example, sherman, tiger) or older tanks have no chance at all. Therefore, more and more apcr is shot, it is more expensive, the new tanks have barely weakspots or they can only be hit by snipers.
quick remnant
@narrow pivot Dude @dim field Is right. If u can't pen switch shells. I always switch shells for my IS-2 ( 1945 ) aim for the sides engine or underneath the hull or the ammo racks
tribal summit
But if you play lower tier not too much depends on you. If you are mixed 80% with higher tier you can lose 80% even if you are skilled player
late tiger
all it matters is are you having fun!!!
tribal summit
The problem is how frequently you are mixed with higher tier. I would like to know what stats says. Maybe there are lucky tanks playing more often against lower tier
quick remnant
Lower tanks is difficult to survive higher tiers
dusky oxide
Bye bye fv 😁 👋
late tiger
@dusky oxide you have no idea what you just said do you😂
dusky oxide
@late tiger how so? You cant deny that the number of fv 183 players in matches will decrease. That happens always when a tank is nerfed.
late tiger
@dusky oxide you know that after installing equipment your dispersion becomes better than before the nerf so technically only the traverse is nerfed which does not effect the tank a lot
deft owl
@late tiger Actual nerf was camo nerf which will affect its gameplay drastically.
late tiger
@deft owl not when you stand 200 metres back and no one can spot you
dusky oxide
@ @late tiger then you would be making your disp on the move/aim time worse unless youve found a way to mount 2 pieces of equipment in one slot. And youre forgetting the nerf to concealment values. Which is one of the most importany aspects of a td
deft owl
@late tiger Pattons and stb can spot you now. They nerfed its camo.
late tiger
@deft owl from 200 meteres while stationary FV can not be spotted unless a batchat is there
dusky oxide
@late tiger when you spend that 2 seconds reversing out of a bush and then have to spend .5 seconds more to aim in at your target after dropping vert stabs, you'll find that getting shots off is way harder. These little things matter
late tiger
@dusky oxide do you even have the tank @deft owl ?hmmm 🤔
if no then how do you know if the tank is good or bad ? Or do you just assume without any form of experience
deft owl
@late tiger Pattons and stb has more view range then bc. Whats your point here?
late tiger
@deft owl BC is the only tank to get close enough to the 183 without getting completely whiped out trying to spot it
dusky oxide
@late tiger ofc not, if i wanted to drive a slotmachine on tracks i'd drive a kv2. Its cheaper, less serious and i know that every 183 driver goes through a big struggle to get those big dmg shots in. Not in skill, but frusturation. We dont need to have driven a tank to talk about how its stats change its gameplay
deft owl
Im talking about spotting fv not getting spotted by others.
late tiger
@dusky oxide then why are you even talking about a tank you DO NOT EVEN HAVE!!! you have no idea how it performs
dusky oxide
@late tiger i think youre forgetting that meds can flank and use bushes as well.
@late tiger no need to get mad :D its quite simple. You arent driving a very complex concept around
late tiger
@dusky oxide i think you are forgetting that FV still has a great traverse . And two shots every tank
dusky oxide
@late tiger traverse wont matter when you cant fire for 20 seconds. This nerf is to make sure you'll have a harder time making shots happen and connecting them
late tiger
I am not mad I am wondering why you talking about the tanks performance without having the tank. It is like me talking about an E3 or E4
dusky oxide
then whats with the all caps buddy? I can talk about a tanks performance without having one. Do you think you couldnt talk about things you dont personally own in general?
late tiger
@dusky oxide lel you blind I only put caps on "do not even have" throughout the entire conversation
dusky oxide
@late tiger i think youre missing the point that was that the tank got nerfed so now its worse, which means its less popular
late tiger
It is worse but not by much and people still play it because it is fun to put 1100 dmg on a tank
dusky oxide
@late tiger deny your salt, add 4exclamation marks if you have to
late tiger
nah 3 is enough I am annoyed not mad. There is a differnece between the two
dusky oxide
@late tiger the stat changes state it was nerfed in many aspects. And we've just discussed how it translates to gameplay. It is fun to put huge rolls in but you'll have to suffer through more misses and will have to disengage a lot more.
I wouldnt get annoyed, its pros and cons about a tank
late tiger
but you said it will be unpopular (only this) nothing else. And I just want to clarify that people are now playing it more than before testing it out and seeing how it is. Also if you deny that that was your original post I can find it. well technically it said bye, bye which meant no one will play it but people are playing it @dusky oxide
north marten
Bring Back tier 1's that were deleted!
dusky oxide
@late tiger i said it will become less popular, not unpopular. And i doubt people will be 'testing' it for longer than 2-3 weeks. I said bye bye because it wont be the version it was before.
@north marten bring back the mk I
late tiger
@dusky oxide lets look the word bye in a dictionary - word, said hen someone/something is leaving. People will stay play it trust me on this
unique scaffold
183 was nerfed for the following reason.
Because it is a minimum risk, maximum reward tank that creates a stagnant game environment.
dusky oxide
@late tiger thanks for defing the word 'bye'. I think youve misunderstood what ive meant by it.
north marten
REEE
7 tanks that i got ace mastery were gone
dusky oxide
Even 2 183s in a team could block a quarter of a map because players wouldnt want to risk it. Its like gambling to get a chance to do dmg. Even if people will continue to play it, it'll get nerfed again.
lunar niche
How is the camo of 183 now?
dusky oxide
Idk, all i know is you'd need 2 tanks to test it and this huge teabag dispenser of a tank had better camo values than a grille
unique scaffold
No I don't accept another nerf to 183. Then I am out of the game. For one time the nerf wasn't totally destructive and 183 is still good and usable. But now stop.
Why was the 183 nerfed? Here is the answer straight from WG. I took this from their Facebook page
"First of all, no game balance changes are made because of player complaints. We continuously analyze vehicle stats, and every buff or nerf is based on the numbers, not emotions.
FV 215b (183) has the highest average damage on tier X among all TD's, and it has gained excessive popularity which causes both game balance issues and unwanted meta changes. Besides, typical 183's HESH gameplay is way too simple for its efficiency: lots of damage can be dealt without any advanced tactics or complicated micromanagement. Team dependence you've mentioned affects only the win rate, not the damage. And, a turret TD by default possesses pretty enough mobility compared to turretless vehicles.
The main thing you should know we are not nerfing it to hell. Players will have to be more accurate and careful while playing FV, but its main "fun" feature — the damage per shot — is left intact. Besides, reduced traverse speed means better gun stabilization and shorter aiming time, which really matters. We ran version 5.7 open testing in December, and the test participants confirmed that shooting hadn't changed much. That's what my workmate means by offering you to play FV in 5.7 first."
late tiger
@dusky oxide sorry to say but look the definition in the dictionary
fervent current
Just share
dusky oxide
@late tiger what the hell are you on about?? "Sorry to say" to say what?
Yeah i figured you had no actual point to prove but are just annoyed because your fv got nerfed
late tiger
I am annoyed but not about the nerf. I do not play the tank all that much only have 100 battles in it. @dusky oxide I am just saying the nerf will not effect the number of players
unique scaffold
@late tiger. I think it has. I saw far less of them in que this morning.
late tiger
@unique scaffold i do not know I only play only leo 1 and have seen 5 fv 183s in one game an hour or two ago
dusky oxide
@late tiger of course it will. It has happened every time a tank has been nerfed. Its how the meta changes. People play a tank less when it gets nerfed. Its like a bad word.
drowsy plaza
@dusky oxide people play a tank less that is nerf’d beyond playability. The 183 dispersion is back to its original introduction numbers. Which back then didn’t have Vstab/refined gun to help. It still has the ridiculously high HESH pen - and traverse is still much better than most TD’s. It will still be able to put up a lot of late game damage - but hopefully we will see less of them/game.
quick lichen
Not to mention 242 hesh with cs
dusky oxide
@drowsy plaza so it unfortunately still has its basic essence in terms of firepower :/
hidden frigate
The 183, as long as it has that gun, will always be capable of ruining games. It either needs to be removed or replaced. No amount of nerfs will fix it.
sleek vault
bit buff to 13 75 depression gun and that would be awesome
fringe briar
If they nerfed the pen I think it would help a lot
The nerf to traverse should make it easier to COD it
hidden frigate
That’s the thing though, the inability to COD or anything like that isn’t what makes it game-breaking. It’s that people are so afraid to poke out and get shot for 1300 by a camping fv that games with them in it often become stagnant and boring. Castilla, anyone?
If the maps were larger, it wouldn’t be so bad. But there are two things in blitz that make the tank just ridiculous. The first is, of course, the size of the maps, and the second is the focus on dynamic gameplay, which the 183 does everything it can to hinder.
fringe briar
Yeah I agree but the nerf to camo should make it easier to spot and therefore they won’t be on top of a hill making shot after shot.
hidden frigate
That much is true. Nerfs to the tank will certainly have some positive effect, and I’m glad wg is at least acknowledging the issue. Unfortunately, I don’t think the underlying issue with the tank could be fixed without fundamentally changing it. In short, without a replacement, (such as the badger from PC).
twilit crystal
castilla isnt the worst. Mines is. If you get lit up in a 183 by a light tank you gonna be nuked just as fast. In mines you can just retreat behind hard cover in spawn. Dead rail too isn't bad. ITs a map that rewards flanking
hidden scaffold
The 183 needs more nerfs, change my mind
Better yet just nerf it out of existence
crisp rose
the actual nerf I do not believe that is gonna change anybody's mind to buy this tank!
still sitting at the back and do crazy amounts of damage while your teammates get reckt
drowsy plaza
I saw 5 in game this am (two games) 3 did nothing, 1 tried and died, and 1 did a semi effective job. But they pop like mad now unless they camp red line.
unique scaffold
It got an accuracy nerf and mobility, I think it's enough.
drowsy plaza
Some maps they are very effective and many they are a giant target. Basically I see their options for locations now are limited - and hopefully that will decrease their quantity in games.
Anything to avoid 2+/side like has been fairly typical of late. Especially dual toons that where way too effective and just focus - delete, focus delete
hidden scaffold
If I could just go 2 battles in a row without a 183 on either team it would be nice
unique scaffold
@hidden scaffold. You might as well ask for a Unicorn while you're at it
hidden scaffold
Just put them in the 183 so I can hate playing games even more
twilit crystal
Yeah I don't know why people still spam them. Although the unicums will probably stop because they dont wnat to hurt their stats. I still want to remove its credit coefficient and make it 0% with 30k Hesh shell costs
jovial kernel
Because idiots want to pad average damage and claim not to suck at tier 10
atomic hound
Anyone else feel the grille 15 is is a really weird place? The wt auf pz 4 ended up as one of my favourite tanks ever, with that amazing combination of great camo, as much gun depression as you like depending on which way you point your gun, crazy traverse speeds making COD not an issue, and the fully traversable gun letting you pull all sorts of sneaky tricks. Then you move to the grille... The camo sucks, the traverse is unbelievable (just over 26°/s, wow...), The gun doesn't traverse much anymore, the bloom is worse, and the pen numbers are poor for a tier X TD, especially on the HEAT, and the gun depression sucks... I can still do well in it, but it has so many drawbacks compared to its predecessor that I hardly consider it an upgrade, even if the accuracy is now amazing... If I'm being honest, If the wt was given the pen and reload of the grille, and a few more hp, I'd take it as a tier 10 tank over the grille any day, at least in random battles... Why the camo on the grille is so terrible I just can't get my head around.
Without the gun depression it already can't use 90% of the positions I liked in the wt, and loses most of its flexibility with that and the smaller gun arc mixed with the poor traverse, but the camo is just the final nail in the coffin
smoky yoke
Fv 183, is a case by case basis on where your team goes course being alone in a fv183 means making one shot for 900 dmg and being deleted in reload.
Grille has been nerfed badly , no point in playing that tank unless you like TDS.
quick lichen
@atomic hound the maps are also often very tricky for grilles to play even the slightest bit aggressive
I agree completely
atomic hound
It's still not hard to do damage, but unlike with the wt it really feels like I'm fighting against the tank, rather than playing it's nuances and strengths
unique scaffold
RA1D made a very good use of Grille lol
atomic hound
It doesn't help that it can't make a positive trade with many tier ten tanks, especially with more and more high alpha tanks being played + added
unique scaffold
Yes, IMHO Object 268 is just better in almost all aspects
hidden scaffold
The problem is Blitz itself nerfs the Grille. Who needs laser accuracy when the longest distance you’ll be shooting is <400 meters
unique scaffold
Exactly ^
tardy meadow
dusky oxide
Maybe there should be even less tds in a game. Since wg doesnt seem to want to remive such a popular tank.
Its people like this who enjoy playing it the most
jovial kernel
ouch, how do you manage average damage that low in it
spark orchid
With pure skill, I guess
jovial kernel
the most skilled example is the 183 I saw once that did 0
spark orchid
Oh, I've seen so many of those... Too many😂
dusky oxide
Is 6 tds in a game too much?
dusky oxide
Agreed
dim field
Agreed.
unique scaffold
Agreed.
Wait...
rugged trail
The exp needs the sides buffed because the thing is massive and can be penned by HE nock it from 45 to to 55 and maybe my survivability will go up
dim field
I think that's what makes it balanced. All the armor is in the front.
cold badge
I dont feel like there should be a TD cap at 2, rather id say 3. Some TDs arent as effective as others, and they provide many different roles. Take a nashorn vs a hellcat for example. While both are poorly armoured, the Hellcat is faster and has a turret, making it ideal for flanking or fixed position shooting. A nashorn on the other hand, has high DPM and penetration, but is stuck with a fixed hull, making it ideal as a rear line support.
At the same time, some TDs are closer ot mediums, and other are similar to heavy tanks. The T25 is a good example of this, as it behaives more like a medium with its decent armour, decent pen, and above average mobility. A Jagtiger 105 could fuful the role of either a front line break through or a mid line support, as it is good for both with high DPM, high armour, and decent traverse
lone warren
I think the td cap is more beneficial for the higher tiers - the amount of tds at the higher tiers is more of a problem rather than at tier 6.
cold badge
Other times, TDs can be useless on some maps or in the hands of some players, so I understand youd want a cap on them After all, if you have a unskilled 183 driver that does nothing for the team, you would rather have a medium or heavy tank
I will also admit that several issues at one tier may not be the same or even present at another. So it would be a tier by tier basis for fixing.
Regarding the 183... I have been waiting for a long time for WG to add the turreted british TD line into blitz. Having a alternate choice of a tech tree to grind is always helpful (In most cases, lets not talk about the chinese tree or the recent german tree) In addition to the new vehicles, you would be able to change stats on both the FV 215B 183 and the FV 4005 St. 2
lunar niche
Move 183 into turreted uk td line if they are brought in blitz instead of bringing FV4005 and the badger for AT line. With this we won't get another 183 mm gun in tier X, 183 won't be removed and we get the badger.
glad creek
Replace the AP shells on T-54 for APCR shells
jovial kernel
Why AP is better
Would be a nerf to the already lackluster penetration on the T-54
storm light
wait how would that be a nerf
jovial kernel
APCR is affected more by angles since it has less than half the angle normalization
storm light
apcr has 2 degs and ap has 5, not much of a difference**
storm light
😠
but higher shell velocity
would you consider the change of APCR to AP on the 140 a buff?
unique scaffold
@storm light. Yes. I prefer AP.
storm light
😦
jovial kernel
Same, AP rocks
unique scaffold
In my opinion
AP> APCR>HEAT
lone warren
God i hate heat
fiery flame
Bring back old Russian HEAT
cold badge
HE-P and HESH are better than all other ammo types
drowsy plaza
Given the same pen yes - but they don’t.
cinder totem
Need to figure out how to make the teams balanced with this crappy matchmaker
jovial kernel
maybe suck it up and deal with it like everyone else has
cinder totem
Your not my real dad you can’t tell me what to do
jovial kernel
😂
cinder totem
Seriously though man it sux when the last 8 battles my team has been completely destroyed and the reds have usually 6 left. And don’t say git gud lol
unique scaffold
@cinder totem are you familiar with the pinned messages?
jovial kernel
No offense but git gud
storm light
play another tier?
cinder totem
Again see message above lol
unique scaffold
Twas a simple question.
cinder totem
Yea have played a couple of different ones
jovial kernel
I'm going to say git gud because the only constant between every match you're in, is well, um, it's you.
unique scaffold
@cinder totem. Let me help you.
jovial kernel
AAUUUGH light mode
storm light
lol
shy wren
My Eyes! It BURNS!
unique scaffold
Keep crying and I'll post more screenshots ❤️
cinder totem
@unique scaffold sorry none of my replies were directed towards you. Yes I have looked through some of the pinned post.
unique scaffold
The point being that this channel is to discuss balance. Not the matchmaker or the playerbase that we all deal with.
cinder totem
Lol that should be the first thing that they balance
jovial kernel
It is balanced. We all deal with it and get screwed equally.
cinder totem
I do not believe that I said it was only me. Just said it sux lol
jovial kernel
But if everyone gets screwed equally then it's balanced
unique scaffold
It's what you do with your team that makes the difference between a 40%er and a 70%er. Moving on.
rain ivy
Just swap HESH for HEAT and make appropriate damage adjustments. Yeah it'd be impossible to bounce, but you won't have 1300 damage on the pramo
cinder totem
Right. One person can destroy all 7 tanks every battle. Thanks for the help. Appreciate it
jovial kernel
I would prefer 750 alpha HEAT with 400+mm pen to dealing with HESH
storm light
but then it wouldnt be unique and it would make like 10% of the population angry
unique scaffold
#general-blitz-discussion for MM discussion
jovial kernel
"wouldn't be unique"
930 AP alpha
yeah sure buddy
rain ivy
That's the last change to rebalance the 183. And if you upset some kids to make everyone else Happy, so be it, it's called a business
storm light
people play the 183 for the hesh
jovial kernel
last change to balance the 183 would be removing it and adding the Badger tho @rain ivy
Also doesn't mean the HESH is good for gameplay @storm light
unique scaffold
I don't mind the 183 or it's alpha. I mind the number of 183 is being played. If the recent nerf cuts down on the number of them in que then I'm happy.
rain ivy
I'm not though, and I'm a 48% noob so apparently my opinion is better than everyone else sarcasm, love you all
shy wren
You know some people will just stop playing a particular tank at the slightest sound of a nerf
crystal spoke
Dont forget those who will quit for the same reason
drowsy plaza
We all get bad teams.
rain ivy
No tank will make me good, I'm just trash 👌 🤦
storm hatch
Please buff the super p it’s way more than powercreeped at this point.
twilit crystal
it has basically heat immune frontal armor, decent traverse, 10 degrees of depression, strong armor overall and a fast firing gun. Honestly whats the point of the chietan over the super pershing?
storm hatch
On paper it sounds good but it’s starting to annoy that all of a sudden a t49 can go right through my front plate with HEAT. I thought it was “HEAT resistant” and there’s way more weak spots in the super p than the 1 weak spot on the chieftain.
quick lichen
@cinder totem you seem confused. First of all, my wonderful CH is absolutely right. This channel isn’t about mm. Secondly, you don’t have to kill all 7. You work as a team and win the game with the 6 others
modest tendon
Lol rip tetanic spamming that picture XD
iron lynx
There is no way a T49 can go right through the Tiger P frontal plate with HEAT unless you did not hide your lower plate or angle the tank.
The T49's 152 HEAT has around 152mm penetration, while the Tiger P has around 200mm frontal armor (barring the lower plate)
rain ivy
With or without CS?
shy wren
Cupola shots are possible, but not recommended for a T49
quick lichen
@iron lynx you can max roll on pen
rain ivy
Keep in mind if they run CS over rammer, they get 10% overall boost to pen in the T49 (since it's HEAT and HE)
shy wren
Better flank it then pray to RNG to get a HE pen on the Tiger P’s sides
quick lichen
192 mm is probably enough
rain ivy
You also have to factor the crew skill chance of proc for extra pen
exotic pelican
or T49 get luck and hit area where the turret and hull meet
iron lynx
Bad RNG then
But Tiger P doesn't need a buff
For now
quick lichen
Agreed
storm hatch
Yeah I stand corrected, I just viewed blitz hanger at it seems that the front plate, specifically the top middle section of the upper glacis, has like less than 150mm of armor. And I’m also seeing these small little weak point on each side of the hull where the spaced armor doesn’t cover?ouch.
And when I’m taking about those “small little weak points” I’m talking about you can see these things when facing a super p frontally.
warm meadow
Yeah I play the tiger P a lot and it can handle it's own no buff required
iron lynx
Umm
Super P and Tiger P are two different tanks
O wait
Is he talking about the Tiger P or the Super Pershing
I think both of us are talking about different tanks lol
storm hatch
Well I said super p no idk why people are talking about the tiger p lol
iron lynx
I think it is my fault
late crow
I’d rather be in a Tiger P. Super P is too sluggish for a medium, the gun can be kinda sloppy too.
smoky yoke
In regret buying that tank
On paper it sounds awesome but in battle , it's poop. But only on maps where you have the reach the meds spot like the river map port bay, not sure if that the name and Mine (corrected) with the map with the hill in the middle. If you can't track the red team tanks from takin hill. It's gonna be a sucky game for a hard win
iron lynx
Mines is not a really good map for meds and lights since nobody wants to peek their heads up and mediums/lights who didn't take the hill will have nowhere good to go
jovial kernel
Mines is a predictable map, and predictable is bad for lights and mediums
late tiger
@jovial kernel most maps are predictable for lights and meds
iron lynx
No no
Not if you're LTTBing
smoky yoke
mines would work better with more players, if 2-4 more players were added in each team , it can be spread out more
iron lynx
TDs are very important in Mines
You no TD sniping, you most likely lose
jovial kernel
Mines would work better if it wasn't in the game, if it wasn't in the game then we wouldn't have to play a map so badly optimized for high tier play.
dim field
Had a few people try calling out the TDs for hanging in the back to snipe instead of rushing up to fight at the hill on mines. Can't really fault a tank with basically no gun depression from wanting to avoid having to fight at hill. Having to expose all of your tank to even try to get one shot out is not a fun time.
jovial kernel
TDs are supposed to snipe, it's almost a guaranteed loss if you don't have TDs sniping on Mines
late tiger
@jovial kernel or it will be better if there were 3 positions where you could get on the hill - one for the north side, one for the south side and one in the middle
this why the map will have a bit more room to move around
jovial kernel
no, I have a better idea, brb
iron lynx
One time ago the lights on the south side can simply drive up the hill at full speed without even going through the common entrance
rain ivy
But E3 is a frontline td
dim field
I saw a video with a cdc and drac doing that.
iron lynx
Once a Pz.IV can do that
But not anymore
dim field
Oh people were fussing at T28 and Isu for sniping on mines
rain ivy
Isu it's fine, t28 is debatable
jovial kernel
Mines should have a second entrance to the hill right there in the red circle
iron lynx
We could shoot the side of the hill and open an entrance through a landslide
lone warren
E3 can be frontline but if you’re sitting on that hill the enemy tds can just snipe your cupola or keep HEing it. Same with the other enemies
late tiger
@jovial kernel or be like the mercedec logo 3 entrances
jovial kernel
If they add an entrance where I propose it ends up being important to have your tanks actually up on the hill rather than holding the entrance, because you'd need to hold 2 entrances
@late tiger no, having the hill be easily accessible from every side within 30 seconds and not having any resistance from the other team is a bad idea
iron lynx
I think WG originally intended for heavies to brawl in the town, while medium and lights rush around the hill entrance
But now nobody goes to town
jovial kernel
You're implying WG thinks it's ever a good idea to go town
lone warren
Most you could do with town is not actually go into it just use that side as a flank during battle. Capping on mines is useless too.
iron lynx
I think the top and bottom right of the map can be made into sniping spots so the TDs have to defend more areas
And also a place for meds/lights to hide
jovial kernel
I would also put a nice little ramp where I circled
late tiger
@jovial kernel but then it will turn out this way - tanks fighting on hill that do not dare pop out to shoot at other tanks on the hill, and tanks on the ridgeline that do not dare poke out because of TDS. If it has 3 entrances there will be a safe retreat path were you can relocate and help others withought taking damage.
dim field
Wouldn't mind another ramp opposite of where you put that entrance circled in red. Maybe a tunnel along the right side with several entrances/exits as well.
I'll post it in maps discussion
iron lynx
O wait we are in wrong channel
jovial kernel
@late tiger there's already a safe retreat path, you just can't get back up it.
shy wren
@iron lynx well... it’s map balance, maybe?
crimson barn
nice update hahahah only those avatars and nothing more?: Only congratulate
unique scaffold
Some bug fixes as well
twilit crystal
The hill is way too cramped on mines it rewarsds spawn campers
empty charm
I would be interested to know if something happens to the Japanese someday. I have the feeling, less and less play japanese tanks. some tanks are also not competitive. in the pc game and on the xbox there are also heavies, unfortunately not in blitz.
Russians and Chinese are being hyped all the time, but what about Japan?
quick lichen
On pc there are only two lines. Medium and heavy. The stb is an amazing tank in blitz and is well worth it. The type 5 isn’t coming to blitz. As it’s been said a few hundred times, the gun, the alpha, the he splash and the size would all ruin blitz game play @empty charm
fiery flame
@quick lichen I’d disagree with you about the STB being an amazing tank, I would say it’s one of the worst tier 10 mediums. It’s gun is pretty bad compared to others, it’s mobility is nothing special, it’s hull armour is paper, it’s turret is a bit meh. I wouldn’t call it a bad tank but it’s just feels a little lacklustre compared to its same tier brothers.
I feel like it needs some sort of buff, either to armour or to its gun
quick lichen
Just like the leopard there’s a certain skill level and set necessary for it and you need the right maps
I’m not saying you lack those skills by any means
It’s great when you get it in the right positions
It doesn’t work on say himmels
fiery flame
Yeah I understand, but to me it feels like it gets outperformed in most situations,
I’ve had some fantastic games in the STB but I just feel like it needs a little bit of an upgrade
empty charm
yes, more love for the sushi-tanks!
fiery flame
@quick lichen I only say this because I’ve been playing it recently, I have been doing very well but it just seems very mediocre to me
quick lichen
You really have to compare it to the m48
Little faster and more fun depression but less forgiving
It’s high risk high reward
fiery flame
I have the m60, which still feels stronger, awww man idk, I just wish that they buffed it a little
atomic hound
@quick lichen you're wrong about the type 5 not coming to blitz, the developers have repeatedly stated that the tanks are still in testing, the last of these was during the twister cup stream, the issues with them being their difficulty to balance, and the sheer size of the type 4 and type 5 being too much for current blitz maps... Though you're right that they would mess up gameplay, imho.
They may not end up adding it, but you certainly can't say they never will at the moment.
quick lichen
If they add them, it’ll destroy blitz. And they know that
drowsy plaza
WG has repeatedly said no to IJA Heavies for Blitz
atomic hound
Go watch the twister cup stream interviews again, I know I'm correct on this one, since it was pretty important.
drowsy plaza
Lol
drowsy plaza
True. The biggest issue is with IJA Heavies how do you balance them. E100 ish armor and 183 type gun —- try to fit that into a Blitz map.
quick lichen
You can’t
Blitz works off of fast paced game play
It’s why we have 3 shot auto loaders
Not 4 for heavies and 6 for the bat
It drastically reduces the mag reload
No one wants to waste 40 seconds reloading in a 7 minute max game
unique scaffold
They might lower it for the Type 5 although I REALLY hope they don't add it to the game cause it's too OP
atomic hound
If they just didn't give them the howitzers it'd be better
They do have other guns, especially the high tier ones. The tier 5-7 wouldn't be an issue (especially since a tier 7 kv2 is coming to blitz)
lunar niche
People play jap heavies for derp guns though
exotic pelican
Kinda like E 100, HE spam is fun
lunar niche
1400 alpha on premium HE. 400-600 splash dmg. Dream tank for noobs.
atomic hound
Buffs I'd like, I think all of these are justified:
Grille 15 camo and traverse speed
AMX 13 90 clip reload
Tiger 2 turret armour buff
Vk45.02 (b) gun bloom reduction, to the same as the e75 (no reason for it to be worse imho)
T28 frontal armour, gun traverse angle, side armour and hp buff (it needs it)
T28 prot. Hp and minor armour buff
Vk30.01 (d) gun handling buff
T95 lower plate buff (it shouldn't have been nerfed)
AMX M4 45 gun bloom buff
SuperPershing turret traverse and minor gun bloom buff
At 8 buff to right side of frontal armour (easy kv2 HE pen atm.)
At7 gun traverse and elevation angle buffs
Maus buff to 80mm armour behind tracks, give it the 120mm that the Mäuschen gets.
unique scaffold
To add to that ^^^ FV4202 turret armor buff.
atomic hound
The most important of those I'd put as the at8... Most people will aim for the hatch as a weakspot, but if you just shoot the left side as you look at it, it's even bigger, you can even pen it with HE with the kv2... And it has no hope of escaping with that dreadful speed.
I'm sorry wargaming, this isn't right for a tank that goes 20kph.
atomic hound
It has the huge hatches too, it really doesn't need any more.
unique scaffold
Proto is good, T28 on the other hand is a piece of rubbish
twilit crystal
make it painful as possible
atomic hound
Proto is ok, but make the upper frontal plate reliably bounce all tier 8 heavies, and give it enough hp to take more than 3 hits from IS spam
@unique scaffold I never asked for e75 buff, and the VK doesn't need worse gun handling than the e75
unique scaffold
VK45 B and E75 are good as they are, there's no need for a buff
Tiger II and his T8 VK brother need a turret armour buff
And buffs to Vk45B would make it op
atomic hound
@quick lichen what do you think of my list raikk, you're better and more experienced than me
unique scaffold
T95 is fine as it
atomic hound
Tell that to the guy I demolished in 3 shots in my t30 to his lower plate from 200m earlier.
@unique scaffold you really need to start reading what I'm saying mate, I killed him. He didn't touch me once.
And the lower plate won't bounce apcr from the t30, angled or not, not anymore.
unique scaffold
You weren't angling correctly or he just got lucky
fallow elk
Am I reading the balance charts correct - the 183 has the lowest average damage out of tier 10 TDs on chart yet they nerfd it? Why?
dim field
Highest ave dmg but low winrate iirc
atomic hound
No, you're reading it wrong. High average damage, lowest winrate. The tank was pretty bad, but now it's dreadful.
fallow elk
That’s not balancing the game - seems backwards - I do enjoy reading every camper complain and as a medium driver it’s fun watching them all miss you over and over again
unique scaffold
Haha. I just got ammo racked in T62A for full hp by an unspotted Death Star who was camping in their spawn.
My I add that he was a 45% potato?
wHy DiD yOu NeRf mY fAvOuRiTe tAnK
atomic hound
My only advice is to not make any aggressive moves until you know where all enemy 183s are.
fallow elk
You should have moved a couple feet - lol - sounds like he got lucky
unique scaffold
My advice is to stop complaining about a broken tank being nerfed and start playing sth that actually requires skill
atomic hound
Nobody was complaining dude. I'm happy that there'll be less of them around, I barely played mine before the nerf, now I'm never going to.
fallow elk
Same here - agreed - he’s just grumpy he was ammo racked by a tank that shouldn’t have been able to hit him
lunar niche
That 80 mm armour of Maus really needs to be buffed.
fallow elk
Maus armour needs a buff? Lol
lunar niche
Armour behind tracks that gets exposed while angling.
atomic hound
Especially if they're shooting from below you slightly, it's a very easy pen through the drive wheel.
fallow elk
Seems like a positioning issue to me not a tank problem
lunar niche
atomic hound
Not really. Unavoidable if you're coming over any sort of incline. Considering the vk100.01 P gets 100mm there at tier 8, asking for more than 80 shouldn't be an issue.
grand jungle
That’s a ton of red... i hate them tanks lol
grave bear
well isnt 80mm but around 100
ok no
it's pretty sad that german tansk are penetrable everywhere with super high heat pen shells (excluding e100's side skirts) when there are much much faster tanks that still keep their autobounce % of armor
fringe briar
@atomic hound I don’t think grille needs a buff. It’s already pretty good. Mause needs a traverse nerf. 113 needs a travel buff
unique scaffold
Why would WG nerf the Maus. It isn’t OP by any means
fringe briar
I think it needs a nerf to it’s traverse speed. And isn’t it the tank with best WR in tier X?
unique scaffold
Lemme check that
blazing rain
How to get more credits
I play kill 4 and only got 9k credits
unique scaffold
Grille needs camo buff or traverse buff
Best WR yes but traverse is already sluggish
Any nerf would ruin it
Grille needs camo buff
Jageroo needs buff as it has the second worst average dmg of tier 10
fringe briar
I think the grille is fine as is. More buffs would make it too op. Especially camo.
unique scaffold
Grille has bad pen and no armor. Let it hide from HE
How? Its camo is actually pathetic as of right now and with blitz not having many large maps as soon as you get spotted if ur not in a decent position half ur hp is gone
fringe briar
I have no issues with pen and doing decent dmg in it
unique scaffold
Wats decent damage
fringe briar
I think I have like 2220 avg dmg
fringe briar
Yeah but are you having issues penning tanks?
unique scaffold
Pen doesn't really matter for grille Its camo and traverse are the actual killers gun is great
fringe briar
the grille is pretty amazing as is. Now if all you want to do is camp in one spot then yeah you’re going to get destroyed. But if you move with the team it’s pretty good.
unique scaffold
I don’t own the Grille
Foch has armor and can at least go second line
The « you don’t own the tank so whatever you say is wrong » argument is wrong and will be denied
With bad camo you will be spotted while relocating
fringe briar
You can go second line with the grille you just have to wait
If anything I think a buff to the reverse speed is more needed than traverse
unique scaffold
Grille hasn’t fully rotatable turret. Only 70 degrees
2nd line in a Grille = death if you face experienced players
lone warren
279 pen is bad for a tier ten td. Literally compare it to most of the other tds
unique scaffold
Who cares abt reverse speed what's an extra 2 km/h gonna do do u realize how bad the traverse is though
fringe briar
I play it like that I have decent numbers in it. Obviously in tournaments it’s function is different