And the plants are like there version of states
#lore-and-universe
west silo
west silo
So wouldn't that be like making your states just leave your government?
If one states leaves others are gonna be asking to leave
cedar surge
The UEG used the resources to put a colony there so I don't think they will let go
Plus
That could create a enemy nation
gilded mason
There's precedent in real life for that kind of thing
And it's not like they'd lose the resources if the colony became independent. The colony would still need to trade goods.
west silo
But those goods would go to other colonies
cedar surge
Colonies owned by the ueg
west silo
What if they don't want to trade with the ueg
cedar surge
Then they starve
west silo
There independent from them so they have the right to
gilded mason
They'd have the right to yes, but as Lance said
cedar surge
Through not enough food or ONI shenanigans
gilded mason
It makes more sense to keep a relationship
cedar surge
There are only 2 independant
The outer colonies were left in tatters
That might be a understatement
west silo
Have we seen examples of other colonies that aren't Goa and venerza
gilded mason
Don't think so
west silo
Basically we know the outer colonies are poor
west silo
But are they poor to the point people are dying on a regular basis?
cedar surge
Well its that or getting attscked
west silo
Are the most stable outer colonies less better than our Africa
Well its that or getting attscked
@cedar surge
By who this is before the covenant
Oh pirates
cedar surge
After and during
west silo
I forgot they existed
west silo
The flood never attacked
cedar surge
Left over forerunner artifact mcguffins
west silo
Them
west silo
Well the unsc did fight tooth and nail for the outer colonies
cedar surge
And they proceeded to lose tooth and nail
west silo
Jackal slavers
@cedar surge
Jackals have slaves?
cedar surge
Yes
gilded mason
Yes
cedar surge
Escalations
west silo
Is it what I think it is?
gilded mason
I remember when everyone thought those yonhet were just poorly drawn humans
gilded mason
Since the latter was extremely likely lol
cedar surge
I hate the yohnet
gilded mason
I think everyone does
west silo
I think there great as amoral business men
west silo
Renegades
cedar surge
Huh?
west silo
The yohnet
gilded mason
That role is already filled by Jackals, though
west silo
They have an auction house on veneza
cedar surge
They look like you could just grab off their face and reveal it was just a masked human the entire time
west silo
The jackals are pirates
gilded mason
And businessmen
west silo
Completely different
cedar surge
Seriously compared to every other alien the yohnet feel so out of place
gilded mason
Jackals are talked about being cutthroat merchants as well.
west silo
Too? Human looking?
west silo
That wasn't very nice ostral
west silo
Eh it doesn't really bother me because I like SW and ST so am use to it
cedar surge
I can't take them seriously
gilded mason
I'd have hoped Halo wouldn't fall into those unoriginal traps.
craggy roost
Ew jackals
cedar surge
Its too obvious they are just people in masks and makeup
west silo
Eh voldemorts
gilded mason
Jackals are cute
west silo
I like there raptor designs more
cedar surge
You are now a alpaca
craggy roost
Alpaca 117
west silo
Only spell you know
craggy roost
Cucio
cedar surge
I really hope if anymore aliens get introduced they don't fall into "humans but mask" or "human but strange height"
cedar surge
Being composed really does something to you huh?
west silo
Well 343 aliens have been mostly great
cedar surge
Few might be understatement
craggy roost
Oh it is
west silo
Then again I really like the new elite designs so
craggy roost
I fried a whole city of those little ***
cedar surge
The infinite design or the brute elite design?
craggy roost
Elite
west silo
When you hear 343 design what do think?
craggy roost
Didact
cedar surge
Muscular
craggy roost
Oh
west silo
Mouth eating own face
cedar surge
Little arms
cedar surge
Flood says hi
west silo
That just makes you snap your own neak
And never be able to close your mouth
Which is very rude by the way
full citrus
When you hear 343 design what do think?
@west silo I think of the halo 4 master chief design
cedar surge
I think of the elites with their small arms and if jaws
delicate notch
😮
junior dome
Can you see where you go in Exodus in New Alexandria?
junior dome
Halo Reach and The Fall of Reach are both canon right?
jolly furnace
Yes
junior dome
@jolly furnace how so?
Like what did 343 do to make Halo Reach match up with the book?
jolly furnace
They did some things to make em work better
U just have to accept not all of it fits in nicely
and some of FOR is retconned
junior dome
Where did they tell us this?
warm dust
Halo Reach and The Fall of Reach were both made by bungie
tiny goblet
lol, best halo game (my opinion)
stark hinge
Is the talk about brutes loving bananas true? They're space monkes anyways
opal birch
Bungie only made Halo Reach
They didn't make The Fall of Reach
Bungie generally disregarded the expanded material
tiny goblet
indeed
Bungie: We wanted to make Halo: Reach lore mysterious for players.
343: Halo: Reach story go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
cedar surge
Well reach smashed pre established lore
tiny goblet
lol
west silo
I'd say the fall of reach was less made by bungie and more by Microsoft
They didn't even want it made
It's no surprise they attempted to retcon it into oblivion
cedar surge
Least it was salvageable without banishing either into uncanon
brisk geode
WTF is the sound I get in ODST
fading bronze
Optican?
brisk geode
I hear it on one specific bridge
humble yacht
Beeps happen when your health is low or when you’re near an object that progresses the story
fading bronze
I can only thing of one bridge in ODST and we blow it up
brisk geode
No dude
fading bronze
Lore intensive beeps
humble yacht
How many beeps until rookie died
fading bronze
As many as it takes for a nuke too go off
fading bronze
Oops lol
humble yacht
It’s not spoilers at this point
fading bronze
It's years old now
cedar surge
Its only spoilers for one month
brisk geode
Is in mombasa streets at night
fading bronze
Least what I was thinking of
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It’s probably something we already described
Also, again, why are you asking this in the lore channel
brisk geode
Because this is the place of big brain ppl
fading bronze
Wait did rookie get shot?
humble yacht
Yes
fading bronze
Was that during that like a gold heist during a covenant invasion. I completely forget it's been so long
normal shard
Sorry to interrupt y'alls conversation, but I'm just getting into the books and am having trouble finding which ones are sequels to others and which are stand-alone. Anyone know where to go, to learn which is which?
humble yacht
Halopedia
normal shard
Oh, does it have a page for it?
I couldn't find one that separated that. I'll look again.
humble yacht
Just search the book title on halopedia and read the intro. Should tell you how it’s connected to other novels
normal shard
Oh okay. Thank you. 🙂
Will it also say if it's canon? I was worried about reading something irrelevant as well. lol
humble yacht
All the novels are canon
normal shard
Oh sweet. That makes things easy.
fading bronze
Isn't the old reach novel kinda contradictory to the game? And things?
normal shard
I found a video that made the two work together but idk how much weight that theory has.
fading bronze
Ohh idk they updated it that's cool
west silo
So is there an updated version of first strike
west silo
Okay well then did it retconed the brute encounter scene
humble yacht
Check halopedia
fading bronze
Do we know anything about the UNSC Infinity in the next Halo?
flat bone
i dont think so
fading bronze
I hope it's still good, was alot of build up to that thing, I hope it's not gone
fading bronze
That'd be a waste of all that time if some banished destroy it I think
Would be a bit disappointing
2 engineers and forerunner class shields just to possibly get wasted, the slip space drive on it is amazing too
normal shard
To answer an earlier question in this channel; Halo: First Strike has indeed been updated as well, from what I'm seeing.
west silo
Yeah I saw that
I was mostly curious if they updated the brute encounter
Because originally it was the first time chief had ever seen a brute
cedar surge
Well there isn't any other ship in halo with as many characters and stuff jammed onto it
humble yacht
Huh
fading bronze
The engineer Vergil from ODST is in the UNCS Infinity no?
humble yacht
No
fading bronze
Ahh im wrong again lol
humble yacht
Oh I guess they did go back to infinity after Bad Blood. We don’t know if they stayed there tho
fading bronze
So it's very unlikely but probable that we could see Sadie in Infinite
west silo
It got a bunch of other engineers anyways
fading bronze
Thought it had 2
west silo
No something more like dozens or hundreds
fading bronze
Oh wow
west silo
Its mentioned in the Thursday war
fading bronze
Ohh when Lucy found them all
fading bronze
That was a cool part, learning sign language with engineers
west silo
And some that left the covenant that decided to join the unsc instead of fixing forerunner shuff
Yeah that was cool
You know what wasn't cool
fading bronze
Lucy did think everyone was dead tho
west silo
Learning she could talk all a long and just chose not too
Because we can have mute characters
fading bronze
Well you know watching all your friends die at like 13 does things I guess
west silo
But choosing not to talk for all those years not even to your brother
And only revealing you can talk just to blame someone that wasn't responsible for what happened to you
Especially when it was made painfully clear that she can't talk
fading bronze
Don't the engineers think she's broken and tried to fix her?
west silo
The engineers think everything is broken
fading bronze
True lol
west silo
Even the mysterious bomb in the back room
fading bronze
That was really funny too
The Nova Bomb
Least we know engineers make a good cake
Cause it scientifically tastes better
slim thorn
Infinity got around 8 Engineers commissioned at Infinity, excluding those who are either rescue or taken. I also estimate that SPARTAN-IV on Infinity was around at least 150 to 200 despite it was redacted.
west silo
Wasn't there 300 Spartan 4 on the infinity always
slim thorn
Well, on Halopedia it was listed as Redacted
west silo
It's mentioned either in warfleet or the Spartan field guide
slim thorn
Which means it was very classified, unless the rough estimate number was made like at least ... personnel
west silo
We were told the number of Spartans on the infinity
slim thorn
at where?
winter elk
hi gamers
terse lava
Afternoon
cloud trellis
just finished SIlent storm
A really good book
first time reading Troy dennings
8/10
west silo
Nizat best elite
cloud trellis
What
he is useless
the shadow blade did more then him
probably due to that san'shyuum
wait just to clarify
did no Spartan die?
west silo
Well the silent shadow were supposed to best of the best
And look where that got them
Nizat was doing pretty good with only a hundred ships
lone oak
did they space tow scarabs?
cloud trellis
he died in the first book
west silo
Yes
west silo
He's the reason blue team started bringing a bunch of seals for there armor in boarding attacks
I hate how he died in the animation
They charged an elite
Out of every option they had they charged the elite
lone oak
they as in him or they as in a team?
west silo
They as in team
lone oak
your grammar is spot on then my dude
cloud trellis
alright the next book in front of me is shadows of reach
what do i need to know b4 reading it
lone oak
alright, i might read New Blood tonight, tell me about it
cloud trellis
what is oblivion
west silo
And one character you might want to read last lights and retribution
Halo oblivion the sequel to silent storm
Halo last lights first book in the troy dennings trilogy and retribution its sequel
alright, i might read New Blood tonight, tell me about it
@lone oak
Pretty meh book to be honest mean character is buck becoming a Spartan and some of the character decisions might tick you off
lone oak
is there romance????
west silo
No
lone oak
oh
pseudo bison
Maybe I'm just s frickin idiot, which is likely, but how did the UNSC learn of the Banished's existence?
gilded mason
First heard of them in 2550 from a grunt they captured
And then after the war ended, the Banished became bold enough that everyone knew about 'em.
normal shard
Holy crap, I just realized something; The Prophet of Truth was a liar, the Prophet of Mercy literally never showed any mercy, and the Prophet of Regret, even when he was half-flood, regretted nothing seemingly.
I just thought that was funny.
normal shard
I believe so. Not sure. I know Regret once held a plasma pistol up at Mercy.
It's weird because in Contact Harvest, it goes from Truth, Mercy, and Regret planning the coup to the coup being over.
west silo
Well it wasn't that important
normal shard
I mean, it is in the context of the stories and such, but if you mean for the games, then no, it isn't.
lone oak
where is the prohpet that commanded the prelate???!?!??
gilded mason
Dead
lone oak
the prophet of... uh something something fancy word
gilded mason
Minister of Preparation
normal shard
The answer? "Scattered, dead, I dunno" -Dutch 2552
lone oak
and the prohpet rtas and his former leader were going to save from a flood infestedc ship?
but then his leader got infected and then he lost his jaw
gilded mason
Minister of Etiology
lone oak
nani?
gilded mason
...That's that guy's title. I thought you were asking for it?
gilded mason
For an actual name, I guess Mken 'Scre'ah'ben.
normal shard
I tried to pronounce that and just sounded like I sneezed instead.
gilded mason
I assume it's Em-Ken Skree-ah-ben
normal shard
Yeah, so I did get it right then, but I'm afraid my tongue will never forgive me.
west silo
I sound like I was apart of a different religion when I said that
normal shard
lol
west silo
Sounds more like a forbidden Harry Potter spell
normal shard
Or like you just spoke old valyrian and now a dragon is gonna do something unspeakable.
cloud trellis
alright I know I asked this before
but what do I need to know for shadows of reach?
I know Cortana gone rouge
Forerunners had secret tech
the Didect exists
gilded mason
Nah, she's stayed blue for a while. ;)
normal shard
You don't need too much info to jump into that book. It has a few small ties to other books, that if you've read, will give things in Shadows of Reach a little more depth, but that's about it.
west silo
It's pretty self contained
Most of the stuff that appears from other books are more like cameos
normal shard
^
west silo
And if you've read at least 2 of troys books you'll get what I mean
Castor is a name you'll be seeing alot
cloud trellis
i only read 1
silent storm
I read fall of reach to cole protocol
and silent storm
west silo
What coincidence I just made it to that arc
And yeah release form if you can afford all the books
cloud trellis
is there boxed sets of all the books
probably cheaper then buying each individually
cloud trellis
no class?
you saying I am a zoomer 😦
interesting was the forerunner saga and the Kilo-Five trilogy release the same time?
normal shard
I'm visually impaired and can't order the halo books in larger print, like I do with some books. Guess I've got no class though, since I used audible.:P
normal shard
k
west silo
interesting was the forerunner saga and the Kilo-Five trilogy release the same time?
@cloud trellis
Interesting the best and worst halo books came out at the same time
west silo
Are you a prophet
west silo
Well it made oni really stupid
normal shard
Screw Thursday War, above the rest, but it's bad imo, all-round.
cedar surge
And how ONI was going to cripple the elites through messing with one type of crop
craggy sierra
Karen Traviss prides herself on her ability to write stories without doing source material research and it shows
inner basin
The books in the trilogy got progressively worse as they continued along the timeline
west silo
Mortal dictata is just bad
cedar surge
How can you pride yourself in not doing research
west silo
Didn't she say that in an interview
unique rune
Yeah
west silo
And was pretty prude about it
cloud trellis
i won't buy it then
inner basin
How can you pride yourself in not doing research
Ask Karen Traviss
unique rune
She said it allows her to write without any biases towards characters
It's kind of a weird approach that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it
cloud trellis
i'll read greg bear and skip kilo 5
cedar surge
Wait what
normal shard
She's made a short story I liked. That's the only good I can say about her or her writing.
unique rune
At least that's what I recall reading from the interview
west silo
Isn't she the most bias person about halsey?
cedar surge
Didn't she have a huge bias in the entire trilogy against halsey
gilded mason
She's a bit of a hypocrite
normal shard
Hold on, she's full of crap is she, of all people, is talking about writing without bias.
unique rune
She wrote "Human Weakness" for Evolutions so I guess she's still got that going for her...?
cedar surge
crashes ship
"It is halseys fault!"
west silo
And literally hates the Jedi to the point she made them comparable to a infamous enemy in WW2
cedar surge
Ok yea sometimes the Jedi kidnap kids
normal shard
"Unbias writing" says the woman who wrote a book with the narrator (not an in-universe character) calling Sanghelli "hinge-heads"
cedar surge
Or ignore very big problems
Don't forget mute people can talk again if you make them very mad
west silo
At the wrong people
Because halsey bad
And paragonksy is the best
How does she get a good ending?
normal shard
Is convinced Halsey is bad, and life is black-and-white. What's a shade of grey? Never heard of it.
cloud trellis
shame glassland art is pretty good
normal shard
I just realized, she's probably the only halo author I openly bash.
unique rune
Ah. Here's the interview.
if it’s an IP I know nothing about (essential—I can’t work on things that I might have a pre-existing opinion on)
https://www.torforgeblog.com/2011/11/01/qa-with-karen-traviss/
west silo
Oh yeah she also forgets alot of things
cedar surge
Remember that one character who said aliens should fear humanity while the infinity was firing its mac?
Man that was so funny
normal shard
lmfao.
gilded mason
Ah, yes. Vaz. The human refuse.
west silo
There were trillions of them but no one's even mentions them
cedar surge
Yknow I think that guy has forgotten what happened for the last 27 years
normal shard
She's awful at writing, has half-baked political opinions, and tries to shove them into her writing. Like, I feel like I need to go listen to New Blood again, just to remember what good perspective storytelling sounds like.
west silo
Dang I bet she would make the didact come off as more morally justified than halsey just cause
west silo
Remember when she tried to paint a guy who wanted to kills billions on earth as some misunderstood hero
normal shard
Brilliant.
cedar surge
Ah yea
cloud trellis
who was the didact again
cedar surge
That orange guy
west silo
Haha
normal shard
Villain in Halo 4
cloud trellis
leader of forerunner tech forerunners made?
west silo
I think he's making a joke
cloud trellis
NO i legit forgot
cedar surge
Yknow everybody was cool with letting the guy who wanted to kill billions of people go
west silo
About how they just swept him under the rug
west silo
Wanted?
Was going to
west silo
Yeah going by traviss the covenant just needed one crusier to destroy earth
Yes it was a cruiser
normal shard
Sigh
west silo
a CCS cruiser
cedar surge
..
unique rune
This whole lack of research bit really shows
west silo
Yep
cedar surge
3 to 5 frigates can beat a CCS
cedar surge
How long after the war was this?
Cause even then
The unsc still had hundreds of ships
west silo
Am sorry I meant one brave determined dad
cedar surge
How brave
He wants to commit mass murder to ask a question
normal shard
It was the Dad-dact.
west silo
Ask the guys in the book
cedar surge
Not to mention the hundreds of ships or dozens of ODPs that could swat him like a fly
west silo
Some of kilo 5 team were actually arguing that he was in the right
normal shard
Ugh, yeah
cedar surge
And how is this more morally correct than what halsey did...?
west silo
Yes that caused a moral debate with a black ops team
That were gonna gencide the elites no problem
But nooooooo
This is too far
cedar surge
"Sorry guys but we decided that you guys who had no control what happened to his daughter are gonna die in the billions so that he can ask a question"
But at least it's morally correct
The more I hear about the series the worse it gets
west silo
Jesus how did they think this was a good plot
It's sounds more like a parody or a satire
cedar surge
Maybe she thought CCS were tough because a few of them and two CAS tore a hole in the defense grid?
cloud trellis
how mch do you guys like Greg bear?
cedar surge
Glasslands is not about glassed planets
unique rune
None of them. Really, I don’t relate to any characters that way when I write. That’s identifying with them, and I find that very icky. Once a writer identifies with a character or has favourites, they start investing too much in that character, consciously or subconsciously, and that leads to neglecting other characters and also trying to make the reader like that character as much as they do, rather than just letting the character behave naturally. It’s very fanfic-ish.
I can write memorable, vivid characters only because I don’t identify with any of them. They’re all fully realised and three dimensional, and when I step into their heads so I can see through their eyes and think their thoughts, there’s no trace of me in there. That’s why they work – no authorial intrusion. When I step out of that mind, I go back to being me, and I’m glad to get out. They all have equal weight, and that means it’s a better, more immersive story.
cripes
gilded mason
Yeah, that, I don't buy.
west silo
So she basically creates her own characters then?
unique rune
Reading Haruspis's articles on this stuff has been real eye-opening
Because then you also get this gem from Traviss:
I see Vader as a tragic character who’s been betrayed by everyone, and I can’t help thinking of the Jedi as self-serving unelected elitist spoon-benders making whoopee on Republic taxpayers’ credits. It’s an iconoclastic journo world-view. Believe me, Order 66 was long overdue. I have a couple of Jedi that I don’t want to shoot on sight, but they’re my own creations, so I could make them a little humbler and more aware of the consequences they create for others.
gilded mason
🤮
west silo
I told you she turned the Jedi into a infamous WW2 enemy
gilded mason
I think she also called people who are fans of the Jedi "that one word"
west silo
And made the mandilorians who's entire culture is about them being space pirates and bounty hunters misunderstood heroes
cedar surge
"Genocide is ok as long its for the people I don't like"
west silo
Yes she did
gilded mason
A common thread for her lol
west silo
She also added something in gears that doesn't need to exist
cedar surge
Entire genocidal wars
west silo
And it actually makes me pretty sick
cedar surge
Do I want to know?
west silo
Its involves intercourse
cedar surge
Ok that's enough
west silo
And not the right type
west silo
I sent that one 2 seconds after yours
cedar surge
Yes
west silo
Anyways Jul was the only good character from her
And he died went out
Well not with a bang
cedar surge
ONI did more harm with the elite manipulation thing than good didn't they
west silo
The SOS was winning
gilded mason
Yeh
west silo
And oni thought this was a great idea
I am still shocked that traviss thought killing the sangheli version of rice would doom there species
Oh no our rice is gone
gilded mason
And the toxic crop itself would be limited to a single planet. Or an even smaller area.
cedar surge
If only there was thousands of other crops we could grow
On thousands of other planets
west silo
Too bad the elites don't have any other planets right?
gilded mason
Yup, too bad!
west silo
Yep its not like they were an interstellar space empire once
cedar surge
Yes because no elites ever took up farming
unique rune
b a r n s
west silo
Nope just a bunch of lizards that can't even swim
cedar surge
And none of them put that info on their databases
west silo
That also dominated there planets sea
cedar surge
Yes because they guys who came from a water planet can't swim
cedar surge
Maybe not?
west silo
They also come from a water planet right
cedar surge
Wasn't most of it gone?
west silo
They're basically space crabs
cedar surge
Monkey crabs
west silo
No
There everywhere
Even on earth
I am surprised that covenant are just allowed freely on earth but humans can't go on other alien planets without causing trouble
Remember when a war nearly broke out because elites thought arbiter allowed humans on sanghelios
cedar surge
Ah yea
That
ONI really just made everything worse
Like adding gasoline to a dying fire
gilded mason
And remember, ONI did all of this without the knowledge of the UEG or the rest of the UNSC.
They are quite literally a rogue agency
cedar surge
This is why ONI should have been shaken down and have some power taken away
They are way bigger than their intended role
Navel intelligence
west silo
Remember when they made chief a bad guy just to prove they had control?
gilded mason
And among their many sins, let's remember what they did to Ben Giraud. Set him up as part of some weird psych study, and then lock him up in the most secure secret prison in UEG space to go insane in
cedar surge
Millions died because of their stupid decisions
west silo
Man serin is a real control freak isn't she
normal shard
I mean, you could say the same about the CIA, but they're still doing all the things. How does one take power away from a group like that, ya know?
cedar surge
The didact was able to add millions of prometheans to his army because they could only see a few months ahead
west silo
And among their many sins, let's remember what they did to Ben Giraud. Set him up as part of some weird psych study, and then lock him up in the most secure prison in UEG space to go insane in
@gilded mason
Sad thing is that the last thing he could think of was petra before going completely insane
And she also died
cedar surge
Probably would turn into a bad civil war
Between the unsc,ONI,and innies
With ONI trying to take over the unsc
Unsc trying to shake or beat down ONI
And innies trying to destroy both
Actually
That sounds a bit cool
west silo
Isn't oni committing treason with the whole giving terrorist weapons?
And sabotaging there allies
cedar surge
I mean ONI is betraying their one and only ally
west silo
3 times
cedar surge
The SoS is the only faction that would ever help the unsc
And the ONI is trying to poison their wheat
west silo
Dang if they wanted to attack the unsc they already would
cedar surge
The SoS could probably beat up the unsc
west silo
Most likey
cedar surge
No wait its kilo 5 so they only have like 10 ships
Cause somehow everyone is over and under powered at the same time
west silo
Uh uh but but remember the elites had a huge war for 3 years
cedar surge
*30
west silo
That completely depleted allll there ships
gilded mason
Remember when the UNSC homefleet was obliterated twice in the span of a few years.
cedar surge
Yes
west silo
The blooding wars lasted 30 years?
west silo
Man post war is longer than I thought
cedar surge
I wish
west silo
I meant the post war period
gilded mason
Why oh why couldn't 343 make Halo 4 take place in 2577
cedar surge
Halo wars got to go back 20 years
west silo
A similar thing happened in mass effect
cedar surge
The firrerunnercsaga took over 100 thousand years ago
We even saw 25 something the unsc reclaiming reach
west silo
In mass effect to get a Council seat it usually takes centuries
cedar surge
Most characters would still be alive by 2577
west silo
But because the high ups didn't want that they decided to make it 2 decades
Well lance
Here's the thing
Those are prequels
They take place before
gilded mason
And the post-war stories mostly use completely new characters anyway
west silo
Reach was also a prequel
west silo
That is probably not canon
cedar surge
It is I'm pretty sure
west silo
Or well be extremely changed
west silo
Anyways it studio meddling that will probably never be explained to us
cedar surge
Its not like 2 millennium like that one guy said
west silo
Plus they needed cortana alive
cedar surge
Stasis
west silo
A decade was probably to much
cedar surge
They are able to put AI in stasis like that one AI in the AI court case
gilded mason
There's a lot of stuff writers can pull outta their butts for that
west silo
I don't think cortana could do that to her self
Look at serina she killed herself one 2 years after wars
Going by the tales from slipspace comics
gilded mason
Low power mode, some technique she learned from Alpha Halo, etc
cedar surge
She learned to resist through the power of love
west silo
Reviving herself back from the dead
cedar surge
Dang she is deaf?
gilded mason
Basically, the writers could do anything they wanted to keep her alive just long enough for this
cedar surge
Just tell her who halsey is in sign language and she should be able to hear again
west silo
Anyone find it weird that halsey created a universal shutdown for all unsc ais?
west silo
A kill command for all unsc ais
cedar surge
Cortana proved her point for having one
west silo
Its used twice in the series
cedar surge
When?
cedar surge
Wouldn't that just cripple it?
west silo
And Roland was able to resist it
cedar surge
Of course
west silo
He's roland
cedar surge
Because AI can resist anything through willpower
west silo
Nah he's just built different
cedar surge
Even a military order
west silo
Yeah think the Androids from aliens
The older models all have a weakspot in there necks while the newer ones don't
versed helm
:0
junior dome
Where does the Halo Reach map Solitary take place?
normal shard
It was originally a halo CE map, and thus, same origin. It was a prison on installation 04.
junior dome
It doesn't take place on Halo Ring tho
normal shard
No, sorry, it's on a forerunner world.
My mistake.
I don't think we know which one, but could be wrong.
west silo
You know I like that flying cars don't exist in halo
Too many things that can go wrong with it
junior dome
@west silo Go to the Halo 4 map Skyline and look in the distance
cedar surge
Yea when everybody can crash into buildings at very fast speeds with nothing stopping them
Because you can't restrict air vehicles
That's a disaster waiting to happen
cloud trellis
sooner or later everyone is gonna be able to teleport to where they want to go any way
cedar surge
In like a few hundred years
And you are hgonna need slipspace portals for that or have a pre established portal
normal shard
Anyone know if Halo: Bad Blood is worth the read?
cedar surge
Well its about alpha nine meeting back up and the immediate aftermath of 5 so if you like that
normal shard
Oh, I see. Gross. Thank you for telling me.
Not worth my buck. Ha, see what I did there?
....I'll see myself out, thank you.
Genuine follow-up question; I heard Mickey became an innie. This true?
gilded mason
Yeh
normal shard
That happen in Bad Blood?
gilded mason
New Blood
gilded mason
lol
normal shard
Any other book(s) that talk about odst things?
cedar surge
Not really
Purely odst its new blood and sorta bad blood
But with Odsts perspectives there are a bunch
normal shard
Ah, I see. Hope I come across the latter then.
unique rune
Anyone know if Halo: Bad Blood is worth the read?
I’d say it’s worth reading, but it does come off as very... fanservice-y.
It’s not bad, but there’s bits that feel a smidge too coincidentally convenient at times.
normal shard
Yeah, it just doesn't sound fun. I love Buck and all of alpha nine, but after finishing new blood, I feel like I don't wanna hear more from them if that makes sense. I feel like their implosion and then being my least favorite spartans (the 4's) It just takes away a lot of what makes the characters great imo.
unique rune
I personally still enjoyed the book but yeah I can get where you’re coming from
normal shard
ODST is my favorite game because I liked the story of the more average soldiers fighting the war. I even liked their implosion as a team, but them becoming spartans, really sucked the life out of it for me.
craggy sierra
I don’t know why becoming S4’s would somehow make them worse characters.
normal shard
See above. What was special about them was they were average folk. Hearing buck compare himself to gods, literally, is too much imo.
craggy sierra
To me that’s kinda the appeal of spartan 4’s. The fact that they are normal folk instead of military indoctrinated children.
Ultimately it makes sense for Buck and co to be chosen for the program.
They were among the best ODSTs already.
normal shard
I can see where you're coming from there. But since it's not really the same, given how sanctioned and common they've become, yet they still speak about it like they're spartans of old. It always feels like they're trying to have the best of both worlds with the 4's and it falls flat for me, personally.
craggy sierra
There’s only a few hundred S4’s. Technically no less than the amount of Spartan 3s ONI made. The only difference being that they’re not all being sent on suicide missions.
So they are still a rarity in the UNSC itself.
And besides I view them more as a narrative/gameplay tool than a universal element.
Afterall, you liked the ODST crew right?
Did it ever strike you as odd that that normal every day average man Malcolm Buck was able to hop onto the back of enemy tanks and then detonate it by smashing his normal, unarmored, human fist into the rear rotary exhaust of a wraith?
gilded mason
Malcolm Buck
🤔
craggy sierra
I just googled it
normal shard
Well, there's a huge difference there between the two. Spartan 3's were not treated as normal folk and had a lot of interesting ties with the original program and Halsey's whole meltdown over it. lol. But the main difference comes in where the augmentations are still on the extreme end and it's still not exactly publicly gloated about in the same way, giving much of the same effect of the spartan 2's.
With spartan 4's, again, they're treating them like they're still the same exact badasses in the lore and games alike, but they're not. Then they say "Look, average folk" but they also aren't that either, in a sense, given the fact that they've all got baggage. When we meet the ODST team of Alpha Nine, sure they have baggage, but they're not augmented, they aren't covered in black inc or hardwired to kill anything in the same way. They're just people.
craggy sierra
I apparently missed his first name
gilded mason
Gawd, Waffle
normal shard
Also, I think that's more of a game mechanic thing, not a lore thing. The tank smashing thing. Could be wrong.
No external lore ever even came close to that, that I've seen.
craggy sierra
@normal shard but going back to what I said though, Halo’s gameplay ultimately still has to be Halo and Spartans have to ultimately still be spartans. Aka they have to be shut-ins who can barely interact with normal people outside of their own spartan team beyond just receiving orders from COs.
normal shard
Because he literally shouldn't have been physically capable.
craggy sierra
If only there was a way to retain Halo’s gameplay associated with being spartans while having more charismatic characters able to fill the spot without causing lore and gameplay to completely detach from one another even more than it already does.
Almost like...a new line of spartans 
normal shard
There is. Have you read/seen the headhunters story? Duos like that were plenty charismatic on account of being nicknamed "sanctioned sociopaths" and we don't get games about them or many spartan 3's at all, outside of noble team. And even then, I'd argue that halo reach was about the planet more than the characters.
craggy sierra
Bungie says otherwise there and I’m taking their word over a youtubers
craggy sierra
Everyone who says that without fail has come from an Act Man video.
normal shard
Idk who that is. I watch a lot of youtube and will be the first one to say if something has convinced me of something. But Idk who that is. I will say, you have convinced me on one thing. Spartan 4's aren't a waste or the worst or anything, like some folks say. I just enjoyed the story of those characters more when they were an odst team, plain and simple.
Like, I really enjoy Palmer and all her interactions in general. She's always fascinated me.
craggy sierra
Spartan 4’s main issue is that they just haven’t produced much of the way in good characters yet but that doesn’t mean their premise is what’s flawed.
normal shard
No, not at all. I am certainly not arguing against the premise. More the execution in some cases.
Like, following logical steps here. A new humanity out of the ashes of the human-covenant war would sanction spartans after they saved so many. That should be undisputed; Humanity would continue the program someway, somehow.
I wish they'd make a proper new team out of them and properly build them up. Ignroing Locke of course and Osiris because Locke already managed to be poison to halo fans, by and large. That's not even me soap-boxing about Locke. There've been a million poles about that one, along with other media talking about his issues.
craggy sierra
Also in terms of how spartan 4’s are regarded. The exact specifics of the spartan program are kept super secret to the rest of the UNSC at large to the point where anyone outside of ONI and the spartans might not even be aware of there being different generations.
normal shard
True, there is that. Which is good, but like you pointed out earlier, these are normal people. Now, following that to its logical conclusion, just like in real life, normal people don't keep secrets for long.
craggy sierra
Spartan 2s, 3s, 4s, probably all the same to a normal marine.
normal shard
I mean, we have a lot of examples of that not being true. People in the universe have a general idea of the difference.
craggy sierra
I don’t know, I’m under job related NDAs now I don’t see myself willing to ever break. I can’t imagine how willing I’d be to break them if my boss also had a small army of professional hitmen they’re willing to sic on anyone breaking secrets.
normal shard
Well, you're also not a super soldier with a bunch of other soldiers that you'd speak to casually through basic fraternization which makes them talk and so on. It makes it a bit of a game of telephone, but that's how the average person/marine seemed to get their info about them too. Hell, that's how the odst's knew the difference in certain instances.
Either way, I hope we see a really good character come out of the spartan 4's as their origin point. That's all that's needed imo.
Oh, and no Locke.
craggy sierra
Honestly I do wanna see if they can salvage him
normal shard
I feel like they could. I just don't know how.
craggy sierra
Cowards hide their mistakes, chads embrace them and improve on them. It’s why I don’t want that whole thing with the brute wearing his armour piece from the megablox set to be a thing in Infinite.
It’s the cowards way out of their mistake.
normal shard
lmao yeah. I feel like they have a chance with him being ONI. Everyone seems at the VERY least, intrigued by ONI in the fanbase. So, run with that. Don't try to paint him as a good guy. Don't take him and compare him to the chief or he -will- lose. Embrace the grey origins of ONI and make an anti-hero out of him.
That's what I'd enjoy.
craggy sierra
I mean Infinite seems like it’s still a sequel to 5 and given everything that did happen in 5 they’re very much back on the same side now with the UNSC.
normal shard
This is true, but I guess I'm more-so talking about personal beliefs and demeanor. He doesn't carry himself like most of the other ONI agents we've met. He's somewhat watered down. From Mona Lisa to even DARE, we see they can cover a wide spectrum of personalities but that demeanor is missing and we have no idea what the dude believes, because we don't know much about him as a person.
craggy sierra
But ya know, having him work in support of the chief and doing something for the greater good instead of just chasing after him because it’s his day job to go do that is a good starting point to build on him.
Cause everyone still has that created thing hanging over all their heads still.
normal shard
Agreed, and it shows prioritization, which ONI agents seem to have until the biggest threats are gone. When the war ended, ONI zeroed in on Halsey etc. So a fun spin-off could be a proper story of the two butting heads -after- the big stuff is dealt with.
There's a good story there, but it was the wrong time to start that, I think.
cedar surge
If locke lives through infinite and doesn't get killed
normal shard
Well, yeah.
cedar surge
There was that toy with Locke's helmet but they could have just injured Locke and taken it
Seems too specific to not be locke's helmet
craggy sierra
If locke lives through infinite and doesn't get killed
this sentence implies that there’s a way to live through infinite while also getting killed
cedar surge
flood time
craggy sierra
Delet
normal shard
I kept hearing that they confirmed Cortana had the logic plague. Is that true?
craggy sierra
No
If anything there’s literally zero precedent or indication of Cortana having the logic plague
normal shard
See, that's what I thought.
cedar surge
If she was she would be actively capturing and destroying hako rings
Or grabbing flood forms and flinging them at planets
craggy sierra
People are just like “logic plague made people evil, cortana’s now evil, that must mean logic plague”
cedar surge
It could be just
normal shard
Yeah, feels like it'd be more obvious if she did. Which is why it confused me.
cedar surge
Yknow
craggy sierra
But that’s literally not how it ever worked
cedar surge
Rampancy
I mean she was breaking down and shattered when she became evil!cortana
Due to rampancy
craggy sierra
Even ignoring the fact that the other instances of logic plague took like 50 years to inflict on their victims, cause people like to say “well maybe Cortana’s less advanced than Medicant.” Logic plague is something people are shown to recover from when removed from the gravemind’s influence over time. Not get worse.
normal shard
Facts.
craggy sierra
So if Cortana did have it we would’ve known it in Halo 3 since she would’ve been like “lmao, what index? Enjoy the tentacles.”
The fact she never had it then means she doesn’t have it now.
cedar surge
"You fool! That button wasn't for activating the ring! It was for opening containment shields at every flood containment shields in the galaxy!"
Maybe the forerunners shouldn't have had those containment labs in the same places as their super weapons
craggy sierra
The real purpose of Cortana seems to be to deconstruct the concept of the mantle and put into perspective the flaws of the forerunners belief in the system.
normal shard
Also, narratively, it wouldn't really add up. I know this is taking a leap in the opposite direction, but if I were 343, handed this IP, I wouldn't be like "lol, what if we directly contradicted the second-most recognized character in the series' progression by having a long-con where we give them the logic plague when it doesn't even work this way."
craggy sierra
That’s way more interesting than saying “yeah a space flesh stick gave her smooth brain”
cedar surge
The absolute one thing I would hate is for cortana to become a good guy again
Actually there are worse
But I hate this the most
normal shard
Yeah, making her swivel back to good would be a real "sigh" moment, if you ask me.
Like, you wanted to take a leap and make her the baddie. Bold but interesting. Don't get cold-feet for an ending that actually has her either win or even see justice. Follow through, all the way.
cedar surge
Yea cause the unsc is sure going to welcome her with open arms after reducing them to barely 10 ships,causing the entire death of Luna,and the massacre of meridian,and the killing of those ambassadors at balhbo
They ain't going to welcome her back "the unsc is corrupt"
normal shard
Yeah, and even ignoring the unsc for a sec. Don't swivel her back to good and make chief have to guard her outside of the law or something silly like that.
I mean, Chief would, but that sounds kinda disappointing. Though, I guess Locke would have a reason to go play "Fetch-the-Chief" again.
craggy sierra
She also curb stomped like every alien race besides grunts so they also wouldn’t be happy with us accepting her back either.
cedar surge
I mean even chief even has to see that she did some extremely bad stuff through the bias
I mean she killed the whole moon colony
Already a death count in the millions
normal shard
I could see circumstances where Chief helped her anyway. It isn't too much of a leap. Which is why I wouldn't put it passed any writer's room to decide this.
cedar surge
Chief choosing cortana over freedom and saving everyone?
craggy sierra
I’mma sit here biting my tongue
cedar surge
SoR stuff?
craggy sierra
Yeah
normal shard
I bought it, haven't begun it yet, in earnest.
ocean ibex
Spoiler: they go to reach
normal shard
Dang, you got me.
craggy sierra
Same but it delves into some of the ways chief views the whole situation with Cortana.
cedar surge
Who could have foreseen this
ocean ibex
You realize chief hasn’t fully recovered, mentally, from the events of halo 4
craggy sierra
That’s all I can say
normal shard
Understood. I'll be quiet then.
ocean ibex
Even for that level of trauma chief just takes it like a champ
cedar surge
Only until the 22nd we can talk about it here
craggy sierra
Trauma’s just part of chief’s career at this point.
normal shard
Facts. lmao
cedar surge
The flood probably makes up 1/3rd of that
normal shard
No, literally just "The Library" from CE is a 1/3 of that.
craggy sierra
The original trilogy could’ve fooled me
cedar surge
Realistic flood is horrifying
ocean ibex
Oh yeah, the library is permanently engraved in his memory
craggy sierra
He barely has a reaction to the flood in the games.
ocean ibex
He’s terrified in canon
normal shard
I could say that about Chief in the games, in general.
cedar surge
That's because he is screaming so loud that it becomes baxkround noise
normal shard
lol
cedar surge
Know I would with a pod infector swarm
craggy sierra
I mean at least the war was going on for 27 years so he knew what to expect with the covenant. Eldreich body horror parasites from beyond the cosmos though, you just have nothing to say about that chief?
Really?
cedar surge
"Eh I felt more fear seeing Kat drive"
ocean ibex
He’s prob too focused on what’s in front of him to even talk
normal shard
I hope I get to fight a spartan floodform in the games. And not the infection mode, like it properly happens in the story.
ocean ibex
Hopefully not
cedar surge
Well halo 5 has flood form Spartans
craggy sierra
Well no, I know why he doesn’t talk and that’s because Bungie viewed him as a low-rent Gordon Freeman.
cedar surge
How low rent
normal shard
Pretty low, since he does speak.
normal shard
Yes, that's the point.
craggy sierra
They wanted him to be a player vessel for immersion but then made him speak still. So he fails as a player vessel and instead just lacks a personality as a character.
normal shard
^
ocean ibex
It always bothered me why the unsc never equipped basic marines and army troopers with better anti flood weapons
cedar surge
Well you would probably be running and gunning and breaking your marines backs and stealing their ammo and guns too fast to notice
Well dannie
normal shard
They did; A shotgun. lol. Lots of marines used those.
cedar surge
Most of the time they encounter the flood
craggy sierra
Be also kinda lacks another ingredient of Gorodn’s immersion.
cedar surge
Its always a suprise
craggy sierra
That being agency
ocean ibex
Like you don’t even need a flamethrower or an energy weapon
cedar surge
They never expect the flood to attack
Not in one two or three
Who would ever actually prepare for a man absorbing galaxy consuming parasite in the middle of a genocidal war with your destruction looming over the horizon
ocean ibex
Like I’m pretty sure marines guard flood research facilities along with spartan 4’s
normal shard
Let's be fair. They likely expected it in halo 2, at the library, given that they looked into the zone/scanned the zone before going in, but their options were limited as all-hell.
cedar surge
Yea they doo
Yea they were chasing the covenant
Plus its not like they got time to restock
ocean ibex
Ma5’s are terrible against combat forms
cedar surge
Pod infectors though
craggy sierra
As Gordon in Half-life you’re given macro level instructions to move you from plot point to plot point by NPCs but you’re almost never guided. The process of moving between plot points is left totally up to you. Halo, by contrast, has Cortana in your helmet waypointing up the place, giving you directions from room to room, and if it’s not her, it’ll be one of the other dozen voice in your ear NPCs. So you don’t even feel like you have agency over moving the plot forward as much as your moving it forward on the whim of other people.
cedar surge
Well chief is a order taker
normal shard
It's almost like he's a soldier.
craggy sierra
I know but that’s just tying into my low rent gordon freeman thing.
normal shard
I get ya. I agree, but it isn't without reason on that particular point.
Though, Bungie had a chance to write around that and didn't so...:P
craggy sierra
Even if chief was totally silent having that level of direction constantly influenced over you would make it miss its mark.
Halo 4 blew my mind when chief actually gave direction to cortana and told her he’d try to help her cause for the first time in 12 years he sounded intrinsically motivated as a character.
normal shard
Well, imo I think it serves it more-so in the case of halo. In halo, the fun wasn't what you were going to do, so much as, how you would do it. There were always a bunch of equally viable options to complete your orders, and you were encouraged to approach it however you'd like.
So I think that served it well, emphasizing that part instead of the agency of your objective.
cedar surge
Like betraying your allies and stealing their ammo and then ripping through you enemies
normal shard
lol exactly.
craggy sierra
Shooting all of them to speedrun the second mission
normal shard
Though, I always used them as portable gun storage.
I've never seen the appeal in speedruns. Why do people like those? Genuine question. Running through the game instead of playing it, never made sense to me.
cedar surge
Its like testing yourself to see how fast you can do sonething
If your speedrunning you likely have already played the game many times
normal shard
Oh, I see. I'd met folks who wanted to try that as one of their first tasks in games before, but if it's like a dude with 10k hours in the game, yeah, fair enough, find new challenges. lol
craggy sierra
I understand it as someone who once got way too deep into MMO raid optimization.
It’s kinda for insane people who like stupidly optimizing their gameplay
Kind of the logical end conclusion of it.
normal shard
Oh, like just constantly trying to beat your own record, kind-of-way.
normal shard
Huh, okay, you know what, fair. I never thought about the community side of it before, so totally fair.
craggy sierra
Also some of them are just funky
Like exploiting arbitrary code execution in super mario world to trigger the end credits
normal shard
lmfao.
I'm sure there's weird glitches in halo like that, that I just don't know about.
I heard of "despawn" glitches in the campaigns, so maybe those come into play like your mario example.
stark hinge
Does the ONI still don't like the humanity and elites being together?
normal shard
If I understand your question, yes, I think. lol
versed helm
ONI is.....slightly paranoid regarding the sangheili
cedar surge
slightly
dense falcon
I'm beginning to read mortal dictata, I'm wondering, if Halsey would've given the flash clones a small skull fracture, would it have explained the memory loss and made the parents buy the story?
spiral maple
After reading the Forerunner trilogy of books, I have learned 3 things:
Precursors were trolls
Forerunners were jerks,
And Humans are Dumb
deep pewter
I have learned 1 important thing from my current reading of the trilogy
Bear talks about a lot of unimportant crap in Primordium
west silo
Primordium is basically dora the Explorer the book
deep pewter
Is there like a section of the book I can skip to thats past the exploration of the ring? It’s really bad
west silo
Go to the half way point
Your not really missing anything
Plus that's where the good stuff is
deep pewter
Do you happen to know a chapter?
spiral maple
Cryptum filled alot of the gaps for me personally, especially in relation to the Forerunners with the San'shyuum
west silo
Cryptum was a pretty great story
I wish it had focused more on the travelling across the galaxy tho
Like all the build up to them leaving the planet then they just go to point a and b then boom captured
vivid rover
Hey I have a question
If at the end of halo 3 Johnson dies
How is he in odst
At the ending?
dense falcon
Because ODST happens between Halo 2 and 3, the ending cutscene happens about one month later
ocean ibex
Odst takes place before the events on the ark
dense falcon
For reference, the Prophet of Truth's dreadnought hadn't even arrived at Earth at the time of that cutscene
slim thorn
and Johnson had just getting back from 05, probably around a day or two after taking a ride of one of the Sangheili's starship.
west silo
How did he make it there before the keyship?
Isn't that thing probably the fastest ship in the galaxy?
Well aside from the mantles approach and every other forerunner ship
gilded mason
Apparently it meandered in space for a while before touching ground.
west silo
So they were just chilling in space for a few days
cedar surge
Yea he jumped in at the edge of the solar system
Wouldn't you take in the sights of burning planets
west silo
It's really funny to think that humans somewhere may have bought time against the covenant by making up some stupid name
And call it an ancient forerunner artifact hidden somewhere
cedar surge
"Wait hold on,a forerunner artifact called the kyathrillian that can tell you the location it every halo ring is 500 miles away and 5 miles deep away from here"
The unsc already pulled this stunt once
jolly furnace
After reading the Forerunner trilogy of books, I have learned 3 things:
Precursors were trolls - correct
Forerunners were jerks, - correct
And Humans are Dumb - In what way. If you mean the Pheru experimenting with powder thing, they did what scientists do to discover things. Experiment on animals. If it was Forerunners or anyone else, they'd have done they exact same thing with their own animals.
@spiral maple
spiral maple
@jolly furnace Maybe so. It is not like it happened overnight and the effects were largely benign at first, but all the same, they did propagate the coming of the Flood through their actions, so, maybe dumb is not the right word to use, but definitely in some way responsible.
cedar surge
Maybe they could have given the forerunners a bit of a heads up before glassing their planets
Or taking pictures of blood infested forerunner planets to see how bad it gets
ocean ibex
The forerunners would’ve thought the humans brought the sickness to their worlds anyways
The human forerunner war was inevitable
The forerunners wanted to get rid of humanity for a long time cuz of the whole mantle of responsibility thing
The whole flood thing just gave the forerunners reason to execute that plan
west silo
I'd say humanity was stupid in the fact that they didn't ask for help or even try to warn anyone
A simple Skype could have changed everything
Or the humans just leaving a not
ocean ibex
I just said that wouldn’t work...
west silo
Why?
jolly furnace
Flood would infect Forerunner worlds far quicker than any modern Halo world due to tier 1 tech available
Flood would spread far faster
west silo
I meant ancient humanity?
jolly furnace
and get off to new worlds quicker
and humanity alreadly lost control of infection in their own space
west silo
They and the forerunners could have stopped it
jolly furnace
they were chasing flood down desperately
Forerunners may not have believed them regarldess
west silo
Because they didn't have any help
ocean ibex
You do realize the San shyuum was part of the human empire
jolly furnace
Or considered the FLood a human bio-weapon
jolly furnace
Heck some forerunners did think it was a human bio-weapon at first
west silo
And then instantly found out it wasn't
jolly furnace
I mean people will believe whatever they want no matter the evidence against it
ocean ibex
The San shyuum would’ve been more beneficial for the forerunners than humans in my opinion
west silo
And it's not like humans didn't want to use the flood against the forerunners
Despite having no control over it
ocean ibex
The Lord of admirals made the right decision to destroy that forerunner world
west silo
Yeah
ocean ibex
Anyways asking for help with the forerunners wouldn’t have made a difference
west silo
But a horrible decision on not communicating with anyone
Why ?
The forerunners were way more advanced
And way better
ocean ibex
Not really
ocean ibex
The humans had weapons the didact’s troops couldn’t counter
west silo
And ?