The unsc was playing defensive the entire length of the war
#lore-and-universe
ocean ibex
craggy sierra
In the Halo universe that means you’re locked down to a single planet.
humble yacht
UNSC army is effectively a planetary guard
craggy sierra
Like the entire Army in Reach is probably filled with people who have never set foot off of Reach
humble yacht
Unless you’re noble team
ocean ibex
Pretty sure the Air Force is defense as well
craggy sierra
Airforce is whatever it wants to be and also that’s kinda been merged with the Navy in Halo.
ocean ibex
The marines are just backup for planetary defense I think
humble yacht
Marines are expeditionary armed forces
craggy sierra
we’re dealing with space ships and personnel carriers with out of atmosphere capabilities. Air force and navy might as well be the same thing. The one difference I can imagine is how fast and small your ship is.
Even then the equivalent of fighter jets in Halo like Sabres and Longswords can serve both in-atmosphere and out of atmosphere
craggy sierra
Which is the navy in Halo
humble yacht
Navy needs big ships for traveling across the galaxy
humble yacht
You aren’t getting from reach to earth in a long sword
craggy sierra
When I think airforce I usually think fighter jets
Which would put them on rough equivalency with sabres and longswords.
ocean ibex
They use bombers and long range ships
The navy uses short range interceptors which makes sense
craggy sierra
It also makes sense that these two things are merged into one in Halo because space.
craggy sierra
Yeah I usually associate Navy with big carriers and stuffp
Hell even the pillar of autumn, a naval ship you use a docked fighter ship in its hanger to escape from in CE.
Like these two concepts are one and the same.
ocean ibex
Idk, imo the Air Force and the army compliment each other well
craggy sierra
Yes they compliment themselves in 2020 where we do not have interplanetary space battles
ocean ibex
Well yeah, in halo and irl the Air Force doesn’t own any large ships
craggy sierra
What are airplane carriers then?
ocean ibex
Wdym
humble yacht
Aircraft carriers are naval
craggy sierra
But also the navy is the airforces in Halo by every definition you’ve given.
Large airborne transport, well that’s a ship in Halo and in Halo the ships are navy.
humble yacht
In terms of halo, Air Force jurisdiction probably ends just outside the atmosphere of a UNSC planet
ocean ibex
Which i said earlier means planetary defense
craggy sierra
But like, we see naval ships in Halo deploy fighters to assist in offensive and defensive measures. Literally the first camera shot of Halo ever shows two long sword fighters acting as escorts to the pillar of autumn. The only difference between the airforce and navy when it comes to those ships is whether you’re deployed from a ground base or a bigger ship.
craggy sierra
But Halo, from literally the very first camera shot in the very first game, has shown that’s not the case.
It is literally a critical plot point in Halo CE for that to not be the case given that it’s how you escape the ring.
Also tactically speaking, the Pillar of Autumn is a giant floating brick with very limited maneuverability. It makes sense you’d have smaller and more agile ships to do more of the fighting on its behalf.
ocean ibex
Yes that’s literally why the navy have their own craft
craggy sierra
Considering the Army has access to the same resources as the navy in Halo when it comes to transporting troops quickly and easily planetside where does the air force fit into this equation now? The army in Halo is literally a unified entity for the entire planet.
ocean ibex
The Air Force can level cities
Maybe on reach the Air Force turned entire cities into rubble
craggy sierra
Which is now the Navy's job in Halo
The UNSC Infinity literally houses nuclear warheads in its arsenal
Pretty sure the Pillar of Autumn had them too
ocean ibex
And a single airfield can level multiple cities considering the amount of ordinance a single b-65 can do
craggy sierra
Okay but why are you leveling your own cities in Halo
Usually if you're leveling cities in Halo it's on someone else's planet
ocean ibex
In case one is lost
craggy sierra
The one time that didn't happen we had the elites on hand to glass Africa
ocean ibex
Honestly bombing is more effective than glassing
craggy sierra
But also bombing your own city just because it got overtaken by anything but the flood is kinda pointless.
ocean ibex
Oh nvm, I just read what you wrote
nimble crest
To answer someone’s question about gamma company
Gamma had some experimental augmentations that made them a bit crazier then the other IIIs, but they had to take drugs so they didn’t get killed by it.
To put it painfully simple it was a lot better for them to not have gotten it
craggy sierra
Because the most dangerous aspect of the covenant's arsenal is in their navy. Killing some piddly ground troops at the cost of your entire city infrastructure is at best a petty act of vengence and at worse, actively making the task of rebuilding in the event of winning a harder task.
And besides there's usually a few naval ships hanging around every planet in the event something does need to be bombed.
ocean ibex
Well, humanity doesn’t have the manpower to beat any covenant foot soldiers head on
Better to bomb something rather than expend valuable troops
craggy sierra
But like...there's no purpose to that especially when the covenant are probably going to glass it anyways. At best you're killing a handful of in the grand scheme of things, un-important ground troops and at worse you're literally doing the covenant's job for them.
Most military assets during the war was spent on covering civilian evacuations. You're not gonna bomb the city while the civilians are still in it and by the time the civilians are out or dead, it's gonna get glassed. There's no reason to bomb anything with a nuke.
vague scroll
@nimble crest regarding gamma, one clarification - the augmentations doesn't kill them or risk their lives, Kurt decided to include it in their augmentation set in hopes that it would increase their survivability in combat. They have to take smoother drugs so they can remain articulate/productive human beings because withdrawal tends to cause hallucinations among other things.
Generally the brain augmentations are debatable but generally it was a desperate move with intent of a combat plus positive.
based on the old, old interpretations from the early age of Halo Fall of Reach, the argument was that UNSC forces actually beat Covenant in the ground warfare arena - only that Covenant air supremacy always negated any successes they made @ocean ibex
craggy sierra
Also in the cases of us trying to do more than just cover our retreats, it's clear the covenant have defenses for critical technology that could easily withstand the force of a nuke. See the spire in tip of the spear which had a shield dome impervious to even MAC rounds.
ocean ibex
Were they fully charged Mac rounds?
@vague scroll that’s pretty hard to believe, since everytime I don’t support my marine squad, they all die immediately
vague scroll
"gameplay aspects do not correlate to canon"
- offficial position of the lore community and Halopedia
craggy sierra
That's not how MACs work. They can only fire when fully charged or not at all. tbh I'm not even sure real life MAC canons even have to charge.
ocean ibex
That’s a pretty bad design
craggy sierra
You're just using magnets to accelerate a massive chunk of iron at super-sonic speeds. In terms of structural damage I think it's able to do way more than a nuke.
humble yacht
They have to charge in the sense that you gotta get max current running through the coil
ocean ibex
Firing multiple weak shots is better than not firing at all
humble yacht
If the weak shot can’t pierce covenant shielding then no
ocean ibex
Wasn’t a mac’s explosive power like several hundred gigatons of tnt
craggy sierra
MACs aren't explosive
ocean ibex
Equivalent to
humble yacht
Macs have piercing and impact power
vague scroll
they do have to charge to fire for the record @craggy sierra
craggy sierra
They're just really really really large chunks of iron that impact with a lot of force. They can have an area of impact of sorts but that's not what you're ever using MAC rounds for.
vague scroll
tungsten would make sense but I don't have my copy of Warfleet in front of me to check
ocean ibex
Explosives wouldn’t work on covenant shielding right?
vague scroll
well, yes they would but most fighting involving shielding takes place in space and explosions don't work in a vacuum
craggy sierra
Think of it this way, if you have a 6ft thick slab of metal. a nuke might launch it or melt the outsides of it a bit. A MAC round by comparison would just punch a hole straight through it and probably keep flying for another 300 miles.
ocean ibex
So that’s why it’s magnetic thanks for clarifying
So it’s basically a coil gun
Or the idea of it
vague scroll
it's exactly a coil gun
craggy sierra
Not basically, It just is.
We also have MAC canons irl today but they are still experimental and take up the size of a room.
humble yacht
Mac cannon is a tautology
craggy sierra
Halo managed to squeeze them down to a rifle-able format but I imagine ship ones are still large and well...Halo 2 literally just has the first mission take place on a MAC canon.
ocean ibex
I thought it was a rail gun in my entire time playing
craggy sierra
That's what rail guns are
humble yacht
Railgun and coil guns operate under similar principles
craggy sierra
MACs, Gauss turrets, railguns. All pretty much the same thing.
Total side note but I blame Quake for making people think rail guns might just be energy weapons.
craggy sierra
ID games in general have had a habit since the 90s of making the railgun use the same ammo as the stuff like that series plasma rifle
ocean ibex
Can you even make a handheld rail gun
humble yacht
Sure, you’d just need a portable power source that was also strong enough
craggy sierra
Considering Halo has backpack fusion reactors it’s not unrealistic for them to have managed it.
Which they did. It was a weapon in Halo 4.
ocean ibex
Are energy based weapons even viable in the real world
humble yacht
No
vague scroll
not Covenant-style ones anyway
humble yacht
Power consumption too costly and things like plasma cannons don’t exist because plasma would just disperse upon leaving the gun
ocean ibex
You need a mirror for them to work effectively
vague scroll
most things you magnify tend to need mirrors to work
vague scroll
I'm more referring to American-made LaWS and other weapons like it in this case that have emerged in the last decade
excellent anti-drone and anti-missile technologies
humble yacht
Laser weapons are possible but you’d need a huge power source and basically a clear path for them to be effective
Good luck firing a laser through a smoke cloud
ocean ibex
Would they be practical against bullets? No
inner basin
idk if it was ever really commented on but I'd assume they did when they got grandfathered into the Spartan 4 program at the very least.
I know this was posted ages ago, but I didn’t see anyone address it, so I will now (plus I’m a S-III fan and would never pass the opportunity to discuss the S-IIIs ;P). The S-IIIs weren’t adopted into the Spartan-IV program, it was the Spartan branch they were folded into to supplement the S-IV numbers. Also as far as we know, the Gammas were not folded into the Spartan branch and were instead listed as KIA due to their experimental augmentations that ONI wanted to keep hidden from the rest of the UNSC.
Another thing about the Gammas is we still don’t know if they ever got Mjolnir because it would be somewhat hard to contain them if they went insane (due to the Spartan not administering Smoothers for one reason or another) but then again there are armour restraints that short circuit the Mjolnir systems (as seen in Halo 5), so maybe some got an upgrade to Mjolnir from Mk. II SPI
Or maybe they were upgraded to the experimental SPI armour that some (if not all) Headhunters got during the War, except it might not be experimental anymore, and instead may beMk. III SPI?
But that’s just speculation
pale zephyr
Hmmmb
wispy wasp
does Cortana still have the activation index data in her system?
faint stone
good question
inner basin
What do you mean by Activation Index data? If you mean just the Activation Index, then no as she used it on Installation-08 above the Ark, if otherwise then please elaborate
faint stone
^
she did transfer it to data but didn't copy it
so she turned the original index into data for herself to store
which is why spark got all mad
and she kept it until the ending of halo 3 where it was used
wispy wasp
i wasn't sure if she still had it after she used it in halo 3
inner basin
Nah, she used it and did not have it after H3
snow halo
so I have 1 last audible credit I need to spend so which book should I get
I already have fall of reach the flood cryptum silent storm and shadows of reach pre-ordered
inner basin
Ghosts of Onyx is one of my favourites, but I’m a Spartan-III enthusiast so that shouldn’t come as a surprise to some people in here
midnight carbon
Do we ever go back on reach after halo reach?
since from what I remember halo reach is a prequel to the series
inner basin
In-game, no. In books, yes
inner basin
You know it
ocean ibex
Would a spartan 3 in regular unshielded SPI armor beat a 4 in hand to hand combat
terse lava
Doubt it
inner basin
Depends on the skill of the S-III and if the S-IV is in Mjolnir. It also depends on armament. If the S-IV is in Mjolnir then most likely no, otherwise there's a greater chance the S-III wins
ocean ibex
4’s are the definition of spoiled children
inner basin
Not really. There are many of them who have been through hell without having thick armour and shielding to protect them from the elements and enemy fire. I don't think it's called for to call them soldiers spoilt
ocean ibex
Except for Palmer, nobody likes Palmer
inner basin
I like Palmer (except for her Spartan Ops depiction)
Did you know she was an ODST prior to being a Spartan? Yeah. She was the sole survivor of her team
Although their deaths weren't necessary and could've been avoided, but that's Dare being Dare
ocean ibex
Idk, I only look at her through her s ops depiction
The only way I will change my mind about her is if she saves buck from death
inner basin
I personally feel that your conclusion isn't justified if you haven't seen every depiction of her though. Maybe that's just me
inner basin
'Tis a shame, but I understand that the novels and comics etc aren't for everyone
inner basin
Do you mind me asking which ones?
ocean ibex
I read like 4 I think, they were Contact Harvest, Tales from Slipspace, First strike and I can’t remember the last one
Picked them out in random order
inner basin
Contact Harvest is definitely up there from a community standpoint, same with First Strike, and Tales for Slipspace was for sure a nice addition, but I feel some of the short stories are overlooked/overshadowed by others
ocean ibex
Recommendations? Might head down to Barnes and nobles later
inner basin
As a Spartan-III fanboy Ghosts of Onyx, Last Light and Retribution would be my first 3 picks, The Flood, The Forerunner trilogy (Crytum, Primordium, and Silentium), Shadow of Intent, Silent Storm, Oblivion and I think that's about all the books coming to mind rn. Actually, Halo Mythos is one that covers a whole vast of different material. Could be worth picking up too
unique rune
no
inner basin
Unfortunately, no.
But I got something you might like to hopefully satisfy that request for the time being - https://www.halopedia.org/Chips_Dubbo
ocean ibex
Thanks again, also is the halo alpha a reliable source compared to halopedia?
inner basin
Not really for some newer articles, but for some older ones, I'd say they're similar. For most lore guys, Halopedia is the superior site based on the site's features etc
ocean ibex
I figured since halopedia has dedicated articles to the planets in our solar system
cedar surge
So when on glassed planets do you have to wear a special suit? Because I read that on meridian they had to wear masks in areas because of glass in the air
cedar surge
So that mean every non Spartan mentioned in canon fodder is going to have to wear a suit
vague scroll
Halopedia is the preferred tool because Halopedia is more up to date generally, it has more active contributors and a larger administrative team than Halo Alpha - including a number of personnel that retired from Alpha to join with Halopedia due to managerial issues with the wiki host for Alpha. Alpha has good people working on it but it simply doesn't have the same editor base to keep it up to date and runs into trouble of being more often edited by people with wrong information, on Halo Alpha since its still the more popular tool on a casual glance.
@ocean ibex
ocean ibex
Ahh ok got it now
cedar surge
Wasn't there another site that joined halopedia?
vague scroll
that is Halo Alpha, formerly called Halo Nation
ocean ibex
Honestly the alpha’s better for just general information
vague scroll
they're the same site - it's just the previous Halo Nation staff all agreed to move to halopedia
I long since stopped using Alpha, they're nice people but having worked in the wiki space for about two years and seeing guests make edits like "Master Chief is a Hyper Lethal Vector" without proof or accurate substantiation, it gets old fast because it keeps happening
inner basin
So when on glassed planets do you have to wear a special suit? Because I read that on meridian they had to wear masks in areas because of glass in the air
The TL:DR is glassed planets are unbreathable for humans which is why terraforming is required once all the "glass" is chipped away. At least that's my understanding
vague scroll
not all glassed planets are unbreathable, it really depends on the severity of the glassing attack
inner basin
In most cases
cedar surge
Wouldn't that just change the atmosphere and not the planet
ocean ibex
In new Mombasa’s case it is required
vague scroll
that said, you also face a number of extreme living hazards to get passed: radiation, glass storms, heat, debris, etc.
ocean ibex
The effects of glassing still linger even after things such as trees and grass grow back
inner basin
We got to see the process of a planet on the path to being returned to a habitable state in H5 actually
vague scroll
In the Halo Evolutions short, The Return, a former Sangheili Shipmaster that glassed Kholo returned to the planet and did not use any breathing apparatus
cedar surge
Maybe the humans terraformed the atmosphere
vague scroll
New Mombasa is already in the process of rebuilding by 2557 due to efforts by the UEG to revitalize war damaged cities on Earth as part of Project: Rebirth
ocean ibex
Terraforming takes time to take in place tho
cedar surge
Or maybe that specific area has been unglassed
vague scroll
Kholo was not in the process of being reclaimed, it was simply abandoned, the planet just wasn't severely glassed enough to be unbreathable
inner basin
In the Halo Evolutions short, The Return, a former Sangheili Shipmaster that glassed Kholo returned to the planet and did not use any breathing apparatus
Kholo was only partially glassed though, so it makes sense. It wasn't that extensive
vague scroll
Reach wasn't glassed enough that the planet was still breathable in some depictions: Halo: The Fall of Reach short film for example
cedar surge
The covenant doesn't need titanium
vague scroll
that has nothing to do with titanium, and the majority of the planet was glassed
tribal light
I don't think they even knew what that was
vague scroll
it was by far one of the worst glassing events in the Covenant War
cedar surge
Yea plenty of planets had titanium and completely destroyed them
vague scroll
they know what titanium is
ocean ibex
Titanium is a very valuable resource to both sides
inner basin
it was by far one of the worst glassing events in the Covenant War
It took over a decade to build two cities I'm p sure
cedar surge
By 2560
vague scroll
the planet didn't see particular return of greenery till the 2570s
cedar surge
T
Note that the unsc came back to reach after the end of the war
ocean ibex
Those were colonists
cedar surge
That is still unsc
vague scroll
well, not the UNSC, mostly corporate and private reterraforming efforts
inner basin
Yeah it was colonists from a private corporation (most likely), not the UNSC
cedar surge
Huh
vague scroll
UNSC is the military wing of the Unified Earth Government, calling humans "UNSC" is a misnomer
cedar surge
UEG
vague scroll
because there's by far more than one single human faction
and many of the reteraforming efforts were not commissioned by the UEG to begin with
while I can't talk about the Reach situation (given that it gets into details of Shadow of Reach spoiler territory and I've not even read it yet to get a clear view), you can look at glassed world depictions in Hunt the Truth and Halo 5: Guardians for clear examples of non-UEG sanctioned reclamation operations
cedar surge
Or escalations
In escalations the tanaka Spartan was living underground of a glassed world
ocean ibex
Reach by 2559 still resembled Venus
vague scroll
Meridian's reterraforming effort was handled by Liang-Dortmund, a private firm. The Hunt the Truth example featured BXR Mining as the company responsible for recovery efforts but there were no official UEG or UNSC presence in those areas at all, and to a degree were even antagonistic when UNSC elements did visit. Governor Sloan was especially antagonistic to Team Osiris showing up on the company space elevator in Halo 5.
inner basin
Well he also was showing signs of rampancy, so not the best example
vague scroll
I would be careful describing Reach as "like Venus" in 2559, given that a human could not even walk on the surface of Venus, much less take off a helmet. Reach you can do both those things.
cedar surge
Doesn't the UEG hire these companies to help unglass planets?
You could
But you're goung to get glass in your lungs
And eyes
vague scroll
@inner basin It's a completely adequate example - Sloan wasn't a UEG-commissioned AI and the local population were just as antagonistic towards Osiris as he was if you listen to their dialogue during the visit to Meridian Station
ocean ibex
I said it looked like Venus from the atmosphere, I never said it had the conditions of Venus
vague scroll
I didn't say you did, but "resembling Venus" is vague enough for someone to think you meant conditions
I certainly thought that
inner basin
It's a completely adequate example - Sloan wasn't a UEG-commissioned AI and the local population were just as antagonistic towards Osiris as he was if you listen to their dialogue during the visit to Meridian Station
Yeah, the Meridian people are a clear cut example. I was just meaning governor Sloan himself. We've seen AIs lash out when rampancy begins to onset, no matter who they are
ocean ibex
My bad
vague scroll
true, I should clarify his hostility towards Osiris was not because of his rampancy - he never raised his voice to Osiris or tried to force them out, he simply asked why they were there and expressed verbal frustration when they kept snooping so by far he was a rather gracious host by most standards for characters fitting the "rough and tough frontier" archetype
it's no problem
cedar surge
So was he actually elected
ocean ibex
Yes
vague scroll
on several repeat occurrences too if I remember correctly
Superintendent and Sloane are rather different, not just that the former is a Dumb Ai and the latter a Smart AI
cedar surge
Got reelected 7 times?
vague scroll
two consecutive terms, so not 7 times
ocean ibex
Is a term still 4 years by that time
vague scroll
Superintendent is a public tool created by the Mombasa government, he's not a free-thinking being and is simply a utility like a phone line or fire hydrant or any other public facility. Sloan falls under the nature of being equivalent to a person by Liang-Dortmund standards and the standards of the corporate citizens of Meridian Station
its kind of the equivalent of small towns in the United States electing a popular dog, cat or other animal to the status of mayor or sheriff because they wanted too, except in this case its free-thinking robot assigned by a corporate board suddenly being elected in a democratic process it wasn't expected to take but it can do a good job apparently
ocean ibex
I completely forgot this part of halo 5’s campaign, I lost interest after the first cutscene
cedar surge
She installed nord VPN :(
stable flower
I completely forgot this part of halo 5’s campaign, I lost interest after the first cutscene
@ocean ibex I lost interest at the loading screen
versed helm
FALL BEFORE ME, BRETON
ocean ibex
@stable flower LMAOO
cedar surge
So a nova on the moon of a planet could destroy all of the ground
So what about
Using that to break all the glass on a planet
Sure that will destroy all life left
dapper chasm
U would at least be able to start a new sivilization
vague scroll
you know the single-cell firing of the Death Star in Rogue One? The one that is still essentially a extinction level event?
Yeah, that would be what a NOVA could do to a planet. A NOVA will certainly get rid of the glass, you'd also not have a planet anymore
either a planet with a giant hole in it, or chunks of a planet forming a new asteroid belt because NOVA bombs are fundamentally planet crackers
jolly furnace
Aye Novas can do what that test firing in SW RO did to jehda
Star roads just wrap around planets or star systems like tentacles and just squeeze/crush them in their embrace
ocean ibex
Nova bombs are essentially thousands of tsar bombas going off at once
It can destroy entire moons
cedar surge
Well if you explode it far away from the planet like past the moon it will only destroy the surface
ocean ibex
No, the entire ozone layer would be destroyed
It’s a mini solar flare/super nova
Literally why it’s called a nova bomb
cedar surge
Oh that's why
ocean ibex
The only time nova bombs were ever used in conbat was during the space battle of Minorca, it destroyed the entire covenant armada, the planet’s moon, half the ozone layer, and shifted the entire planet
gilded mason
Man, I hate Nova bombs (I say, for the 1000th time).
vague scroll
well, I can understand for the notion to begin with that - they are scientifically improbable, at least in the way they're described in Halo lore. But the same could be said about Halo gravity, plasma, or MAC tech too.
ocean ibex
Mac tech is literally being engineered rn
vague scroll
tell me a railgun or coilgun shoots a round to travel at a quarter of the speed of light and you lose me
gilded mason
But the same could be said about Halo gravity, plasma, or MAC tech too.
It's also about it being so over the top compared to everything else the UNSC has to offer. And even the Covenant, too, as far as we know.
vague scroll
As their place in the lore as a "planet killer/endgame weapon", I can see issues with that too because they can be thrown around all willy nilly if an author or publisher isn't careful with how they use the writing to their advantage. In some cases, having a bunch of doomsday weapons running around your fictional world cheapens the scale of conflicts.
gilded mason
Yeah
ocean ibex
550 years is a long way from now, science could advance a lot
cedar surge
Well the unsc can just pluck a asteroid out of a asteroid belt and hurtle it at a planet to destroy it that way
gilded mason
Science doesn't have much to do with it, besides those bombs being physically impossible by a huge amount. It's mainly their existence in the lore from a writing standpoint.
cedar surge
Well
ocean ibex
I don’t think anything in the UNSC’s arsenal is quite world ending
vague scroll
we actually ran into an issue like that over on Halo Fanon not too long ago because I was did do that, I created a remote control space vehicle capable of carrying a NOVA Bomb and essentially cheapened the fanfiction interpretation on Halo even further. I had a friend make a Covenant Slipspace "jammer" because it was getting absurd. We were essentially pushing Halo's own rules to its limit there too.
cedar surge
They are only been used twice
gilded mason
Except for the Novas, yes.
cedar surge
Whsat about mac guns
vague scroll
If you're lobbing a tungsten round at a quarter of a speed of light, doesn't that make it a world ending weapon?
cedar surge
Shoot something at a planet fast enough and one way or another life be gone
ocean ibex
Well yeah
vague scroll
depictions are inconsistent, all kinds of numbers have been thrown around
gilded mason
I think they made Earth's MACs even slower.
cedar surge
A quarter would make covenant fleets ash
ocean ibex
That’s still faster than every craft we have developed to this point
cedar surge
Man I would love for a sci fi universe to be consistent
vague scroll
it's why I don't pay attention to Halo weapon lore energy outputs anymore, they're rather ridiculous and any attempts by fans to calculate them even further makes if even worse
Spacebattles forums are notorious for that
cedar surge
"Statements disregarded, feats only 😤"
ocean ibex
Space battles in halo are basically determined by who has more ships and the bigger gun
ocean ibex
That’s what I meant from a bigger gun
cedar surge
Cause projectiles and that
vague scroll
space battles in Halo are determined by word of god and that's it, starship battles in Halo are all over the place
ocean ibex
Starships aren’t a big factor in space battles
vague scroll
there's no consistency in how space combat in Halo are treated
cedar surge
Man I wish there was more battles like Coles last stand
Its forerfrunt and not background
And 343 introduced and bunch of new ships and barely did anything with them
We don't see ground or space battles that much because we are usually playing Spartans
ocean ibex
New topic: would a fully mobilized forerunner military stand a chance against 1 infection form
cedar surge
Yes
gilded mason
No
ocean ibex
Wdym by short term
nimble crest
A single flood form against a full military would be killed easily but a flood spore could destroy the strongest armies
A war from the inside is a harder fight then the outside
cedar surge
How exactly is that spore getting on the inside
nimble crest
By breathing in?
nimble crest
No
nimble crest
Flood spore as in microscopic flood spores
cedar surge
You had the laser shields in halo wars
nimble crest
Meh
If we are talking base forerunner soldiers flood spores could dispatch them
Much more dangerous then any combat form
ocean ibex
That just made me think of something, why doesn’t the covenant or humanity use planetary shielding
Like a bubble shield that covers the planet
ocean ibex
It protects against glassing and other weaponry
nimble crest
The amount of energy needed to form a bubble around a, let’s say, earth sized planet would be catastrophic
cedar surge
Humanity don't have planetary shielding
Shields are resource hungry
And the covenant doesn't need planetary shielding
Shields are expensive to build
But to build a planetary shield genarotor array?
That would bankrupt the unsc
nimble crest
Bubble shields last for such a short time because it’s hard to create a large shield that is bullet proof and contained to a small source of energy
cedar surge
Like 10 times over
nimble crest
You’d need a moon sized source of energy
ocean ibex
Another thought, humans are more than advanced to build Dyson spheres, the amount of energy a star outputs is immeasurable, they would be able to power this shield until the sun dies
nimble crest
It’s simply unneeded
cedar surge
How would they be able to make a cya in sphere?
nimble crest
Draining stars of energy isn’t a good nor environmental choice
cedar surge
Nothing the unsc or humanity in general shown they can do that
ocean ibex
They can
unique rune
...Since when has current humanity been able to build Dyson spheres in the Halo universe?
nimble crest
A Dyson sphere would cost incomprehensible amounts of money and time and dedication
jolly furnace
Never to our knowledge
nimble crest
It’s not in the realm of possibility not even for the UNSC
unique rune
Okay, that’s what I thought.
jolly furnace
Only Tier 1 and 0 species can make dyson spheres
ocean ibex
If you read the kardachev scale, tier 2 humans would be able to use the energy output of their host star, modern humans would rank at least 2.4 on the scale, which means they have the power to host an arm of a galaxy.
cedar surge
Bit defiantly not modern humanity
jolly furnace
I don't AH got to that scale of engineering. Forthecho implies they didn't
cedar surge
What is the kardachev scale
ocean ibex
The amount of energy a species uses
jolly furnace
Scale of energy consumption
nimble crest
Not just scientifically but in the realm of construction
jolly furnace
Forerunners are type 4 there at least
jolly furnace
Forerunners drain alternate realities
Constantly
They literally abort nascent universes
in infancy
nimble crest
The Dyson sphere is incomprehensible for us
jolly furnace
ad infinitum
nimble crest
We aren’t forerunners
ocean ibex
1 Dyson sphere can power the entire human race for millions of years
It would be more than worth it
nimble crest
Exactly we don’t have the time nor the anything to produce it
cedar surge
I don't think there is enough resources in all of what's left of human space to surround one sun
ocean ibex
Mine Venus and the asteroid belt
cedar surge
That would probably put humanity in big massive humoungus debt
ocean ibex
Possibly mercury
cedar surge
The outer colonies starved just from the building of the unsc infinity
nimble crest
It would take 100s of years to prototype
ocean ibex
Ofc this would happen after humanity recovered from the war
nimble crest
Even then
ocean ibex
Once all the colonies are back to normal
jolly furnace
Building a dyson sphere if its even possible in RL is a waste of time and resources
ocean ibex
It’s not hard to set up mining operations on Venus
You won’t believe how much metal are in the asteroid belt alone
ocean ibex
Not winds, temperatures
ocean ibex
Ofc humans wouldn’t operate the mining
cedar surge
With neural physics anything is possible
nimble crest
Destroying planets and asteroid belts is a misallocation of resources
jolly furnace
can robots survive in those conditions in RL
ocean ibex
They can
nimble crest
Destroying PLANETS is a waste to build something incomprehensible
cedar surge
Wouldn't just making a bunch of solar panels be less costly
nimble crest
They can power themselves now
cedar surge
I wonder what would happen if you blew up a nova bomb next to a star or close to it
ocean ibex
The UNSC doesn’t even use Venus for military operations
vague scroll
@ocean ibex no human machine can currently operate on Venus, the temperatures melt steel
nimble crest
They’d get the metaphorical dysentery on the Oregon trail trying to mine Venus
nimble crest
Quite
cedar surge
Like unsc infinity lvl
ocean ibex
Very
vague scroll
The soviet union made multiple attempts to put sensory craft on the planet, all were melted by the high temperatures or crushed by the atmospheric pressures within hours
ocean ibex
Maybe we cant mine the surface, but the clouds are a very real possibility
cedar surge
Mine the clouds?
nimble crest
Now mining clouds is just a waste of time
vague scroll
Venusian clouds are high in metal content
but the success rate would likely be less practical than trying to skim gold from sea water
vague scroll
(yes, there is gold in sea water, it's just the parts per million ratio is significantly infinitesimal)
nimble crest
To put the Dyson sphere simply
ocean ibex
I’ve already stated before the asteroid belt is a very real option
nimble crest
It’s not possible
cedar surge
So uh
Even if humanity did manage to get the recources
The star is gonna be massive so the sphere will also be massive
So in the time it takes for that to finish humanity would have gone up 2 tech levels
Plus humanity isn't short on energy I would say
Just food
And materials
And people
nimble crest
And to go up a tech level would take
Hundreds of years and building and gathering materials for a Dyson sphere would take Mucho time
smoky glen
Dyson swarms are much easier and realistic to build and fill the same purpose for barely any difference in energy production
terse lava
Wonder if the covenant attempted Dyson swarms
ocean ibex
Maybe
smoky glen
Dyson sphere but instead of a giant sphere it's a bunch of mirrors and satellites that redirect starlight into a single point for energy conversion or directly produce energy and transfer it through lasers
ocean ibex
Big brain moment
smoky glen
What makes it easier to build is the usage of satellites instead of a solid sphere
nimble crest
So, like swarms of satellites and stuff surrounding a sun
smoky glen
So, like swarms of satellites and stuff surrounding a sun
@nimble crest yes
Basically it
nimble crest
That does seem more easy to build/ comprehend
ocean ibex
But it captures less energy?
smoky glen
In theory humanity has the technology to build one irl
But it captures less energy?
@ocean ibex barely a different, taking into account the size and energy output of a star
And when you can build a Dyson sphere you probably have the technology for a Superradiant Scattering Sphere which is much more efficient to build and requires, likely, less materials
nimble crest
That seems like the UNSC might’ve attempted it
smoky glen
And it's built around black holes, so they are much smaller
cedar surge
But is there a need for so much energy?
ocean ibex
There is
nimble crest
No there is not
smoky glen
But is there a need for so much energy?
@cedar surge depending on what you need
ocean ibex
Humanity was recovering from the war still
cedar surge
I mean humanity doesn't really need that much energy noe
smoky glen
I mean, it's more ethical than aborting universes
cedar surge
They don't need more energy
They already got that
They need food material and workers
They already got energy covered
They just gotta make the infrastructure to use that energy
nimble crest
Plus forerunner tech salvaged from the rings/ anything is able to power most of anything
smoky glen
Plus forerunner tech salvaged from the rings/ anything is able to power most of anything
@nimble crest Forerunner energy production is very unethical
ocean ibex
I guess humanity’s economy was screwed after the war, so a swarm makes more sense
smoky glen
It basically aborts the creation of new universes and collects the energy of entire big bangs
nimble crest
The infinity was powered by a single forerunner engine
High charity was powered for 1000s of years by the key ship
I mean passive energies not all that aborting universes
cedar surge
What's wrong with using empty universes
smoky glen
All the potential life that would generate in those universes stopped before even existing
I mean passive energies not all that aborting universes
@nimble crest I think Installation 00 made a video explaining forerunner energy production
What's wrong with using empty universes
@cedar surge it basically violates the mantle of responsibility
ocean ibex
So technically the halo array activation could be seen from another galaxy?
nimble crest
I doubt the infinity was aborting universes
vague scroll
it really doesn't - life is an accidental collection of chemical reactions, infant universes are far too hot for life to exist
and plus when we talk about Forerunners harvesting other universes here, we're not talking about the one we live in kind of scale
we're talking about essentially singularities or pocket dimensions, simulations or micro-scale creations that exist in a blink of an eye then disappear as quickly
ocean ibex
If the forerunners could harvest energy from other dimensions why didn’t they just move to andromeda
smoky glen
So technically the halo array activation could be seen from another galaxy?
@ocean ibex maybe, in a few million years
nimble crest
I think it’d be harder to move into a new universe then to steal from it
ocean ibex
Thats right
vague scroll
Slipspace is another dimension, it's actually the collection of 11 higher dimensions than ours according to Halo lore
ocean ibex
Andromeda is a galaxy not a separate universe
vague scroll
did you just answer your own question?
smoky glen
it really doesn't - life is an accidental collection of chemical reactions, infant universes are far too hot for life to exist
@vague scroll the argument is more about aborting the potential of those universes instead of killing the (maybe existent, maybe not) life there
vague scroll
that's a very semantics argument, the Mantle of Responsibility doesn't work that way
nimble crest
Do you think the flood is in a different galaxy by now
ocean ibex
Yes
cedar surge
Probably
vague scroll
if that were the case, reverting humanity after the Forerunner-Human war or paving over an ant hill is against the mantle too
ocean ibex
Imo andromeda is either full of flood forms or empty
cedar surge
Slmd forerunner left the galaxy so they would probably be chasing down the flood outside of the galaxy
nimble crest
What is the possibility of the other galaxies around the halo one having flood
vague scroll
there's a unnamed story in Halo Fractures that tells of Chant-to-Green and Bornstellar having a child on an unnamed planet outside the known space we've explored in Halo
ocean ibex
The whole Milky Way was never mapped out
vague scroll
if you're wondering what happened to the Forerunners, they didn't go off to chase after the Flood - the survivors simply left the known galaxy
nimble crest
Do you think any precursor is alive
ocean ibex
Yes
nimble crest
In any galaxy
vague scroll
maybe, maybe not, more than likely never going to be addressed
cedar surge
Yes
ocean ibex
The Milky Way was not the only galaxy they seeded
cedar surge
The precursors came from out of galaxy
smoky glen
if that were the case, reverting humanity after the Forerunner-Human war or paving over an ant hill is against the mantle too
@vague scroll I mean, doesn't it depend in which interpretation we use?
ocean ibex
They predate the universe by a good 88 billion years
vague scroll
and probably for the best that they never brought up, can't have all the mysteries of a fictional universe revealed. You want to keep one or two of your mysteries going
cedar surge
What happened in the milky way is just a small part of their history
Yea
Leaving no mystery is bad
smoky glen
If we use the Precursor interpretation, the aborting of universes would be a breach of the mantle. Using the forerunner one it wouldn't.
cedar surge
But having a mystery with nothing to solve it with is also bad
ocean ibex
Isn’t humanity going through the test for the mantle in halo infinite
vague scroll
if this is a discussion of interpretation, then it doesn't really matter anymore does it? The Precursors are just as hypocritical as the Forerunners, it's not like we've actually ever seen a proper Precursor in their prime and non-corrupted state to ask it 20 questions + 1 million
cedar surge
The unsc tried to get a ring
nimble crest
We have a very little understanding of forerunner tech and precursors
ocean ibex
We don’t know what precursor tech is
nimble crest
I don’t mean they’re tech
ocean ibex
It would make forerunners look like cavemen
nimble crest
I mean them themselves
vague scroll
The UNSC pre-Created had control of 3 ring locations: Installation 04's debris field, Installation 03, and Installation 05. There is some suggestions that Installation 07 was also under Sangheili/UNSC control but I don't recall the details from Hunters in the Dark since I haven't read it/
nimble crest
Lol has the UNSC seen the bottom of the ocean yet
gilded mason
There is some suggestions that Installation 07 was also under Sangheili/UNSC control but I don't recall the details from Hunters in the Dark since I haven't read it/
Yeah, they have outposts set up on 07
smoky glen
@ocean ibex I don't think ONI has released info about ancient humanity to the public
ocean ibex
They never will lol
smoky glen
And I think the Precursors don't actually create species, but guide the beginning of life and the evolution of life.
Fits better with the theme I got from their description as a species
vague scroll
the public does know of the Flood, on note of classified things being revealed
not necessarily their full story but the public has been made aware of them
ocean ibex
And I think the Precursors don’t actually create species, but guide the beginning of life and the evolution of life.
@smoky glen makes sense considering they can’t decide on a definitive form for them selves lol
vague scroll
(a mock up of a Flood infection form was on display at Halo: Outpost Discovery as well as in its in-universe incarnation)
nimble crest
If humanity hasn’t seen the bottom of the ocean I doubt they’ll be building Dyson spheres anytime soon
ocean ibex
Why tf would they tell the public about universe threatening space zombies
cedar surge
Cause
nimble crest
People need to know
ocean ibex
@versed helm sup
cedar surge
Fan service first canon later
nimble crest
So they can say “Oh! The killer popcorn! Atleast I know who’s killing me!”
versed helm
@ocean ibex Nm dude, good to see you lot
cedar surge
Yea that is absolutely the worst idea
vague scroll
*galaxy-threatening space zombies, let's get this right - the idea that the Flood is in other galaxies is not proven, it was a baseless in-universe theory
smoky glen
The literally said that the glassing of Africa was made by the covenant to cover up the flood infection of new mumbasa
ocean ibex
How did nobody capture a video of an infection form
versed helm
I’m sick of all these stupid flood conspiracy theories drop your tinfoil hat and grow a brain
nimble crest
They did most likely
ocean ibex
lol
vague scroll
yes, the full story of he Flood was not revealed to the public, only that they exist
cedar surge
"Yea lets tell everybody including the insurrectionists who might use this against us without knowing the full consequences about a galaxy destroying parasite who will end all life"
smoky glen
How did nobody capture a video of an infection form
@ocean ibex I think someone did
But Oni silenced him
cedar surge
Bo
nimble crest
Easily
cedar surge
ONI was monitoring the internet
versed helm
We need a name for people who believe in the flood
cedar surge
Both versions
versed helm
Floodiots
vague scroll
I don't recall any lore about the flood outbreak at voi being brought up in public in the lore
ever
cedar surge
Floodites
versed helm
Floodites is good
nimble crest
Proflooders
versed helm
Smh
nimble crest
Refloodicans
versed helm
They even say that the zombies telepathically communicate XD
ocean ibex
*galaxy-threatening space zombies, let’s get this right - the idea that the Flood is in other galaxies is not proven, it was a baseless in-universe theory
@vague scroll I guess you’re right about them being galaxy threatening, since nobody in the Milky Way at the time had sufficient enough technology to leave the galaxy
versed helm
And say stuff like “No escape!”
smoky glen
@vague scroll I guess you’re right about them being galaxy threatening, since nobody in the Milky Way at the time could had sufficient enough technology to leave the galaxy
@ocean ibex the forerunners did
ocean ibex
But they’re dead 
smoky glen
They could, of course taking some time, go to the Megallanic Clouds
versed helm
The only people who believe in flood are just sad individuals who didn’t get the attention in their entrepreneurship
smoky glen
And I think they might still exist there
cedar surge
There are probably flood worshipping innies now
nimble crest
Does the center of the galaxy have any significance in halo
cedar surge
Thanks ONI section 2
ocean ibex
I’m talking about modern species,
vague scroll
none at the current moment
smoky glen
Didn't the last few forerunners leave the milky way to live simple lives?
ocean ibex
The forerunners completely left the Milky Way
cedar surge
We still stuck in Orion arm
vague scroll
yes @smoky glen
versed helm
Does the center of the galaxy have any significance in halo
@nimble crest it keeps the rest of the arms in balance
nimble crest
Wym @cedar surge
vague scroll
the story is in Halo Fractures
ocean ibex
Is halo legends canon
smoky glen
I imagine they might be reevolving their technology and stuff, but idk
nimble crest
Most not
vague scroll
yes, except Odd One Out @ocean ibex
versed helm
That is actually A list canon
vague scroll
everything but the story about SPARTAN-1337 is absolutely canon
smoky glen
I doubt that the forerunners after setting themselves to the stone age as atonement would stay in the stone age for very long
nimble crest
The package is probably canon the artstyle is very inaccurate tho
vague scroll
it wasn't stone age, they just left known space to set up else where, their tech level is still decently sizable @smoky glen
versed helm
It used to be inaccurate, but 343 want to canonise every visual depiction
nimble crest
But Halsey looks like a teenager
versed helm
Except that
vague scroll
what about the Package's artstyle is inaccurate?
ocean ibex
They had 100000 years to reproduce, advance, and evolve, I bet they’re somewhere near where they used to be
vague scroll
oh that? that's because of anime
smoky glen
it wasn't stone age, they just left known space to set up else where, their tech level is still decently sizable @smoky glen
@vague scroll oh, I thought that they decided to reduce their technology as atonement
versed helm
I’m fine with gilf halsey though
nimble crest
I’m not
gilded mason
And Kelly's high heels and 'breast'plate
nimble crest
She’s too smart
vague scroll
welcome to anime
versed helm
They’re tactical highheels
ocean ibex
@vague scroll oh, I thought that they decided to reduce their technology as atonement
@smoky glen why would they purposely devolve themselves, they weren’t that harsh on themselves lol
nimble crest
They’re shotgun barrels
versed helm
That’s cool asf
nimble crest
That make her go faster
vague scroll
I don't like the anime art director for The Package personally but I do think he has a decent eye for mecha design
nimble crest
Like mercury in RWBY
versed helm
Wtf
vague scroll
same guy did the animated films for Starship troopers, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed
versed helm
Anyway, so I never noticed Kelly’s breast armor
vague scroll
among others
ocean ibex
Bruh
vague scroll
he also did the live action evangelion
gilded mason
...There's a live action Evangelion?
smoky glen
@smoky glen why would they purposely devolve themselves, they weren’t that harsh on themselves lol
@ocean ibex I mean, they did deevolve humanity for much less...
vague scroll
it's a short film @gilded mason
versed helm
Warden Eternal hates breasts
terse lava
I cant see the evangelion trio(and misato) as live action
ocean ibex
Why do people think chief is part forerunner after halo 4
versed helm
Wtf is Evangelion
nimble crest
The dialogue
gilded mason
Because they don't read carefully
ocean ibex
How do you switch from 1 species to another
gilded mason
Neural physics
vague scroll
one of the best known anime of all time @versed helm
ocean ibex
Because some old ghost lady called the librarian gave you a “gift”
versed helm
Oh, that’s why
smoky glen
Anime? Don't watch any
terse lava
I loved that anime
vague scroll
@terse lava it's just a short film showing off unit-01 in berserk mode
smoky glen
The only anime I ever watched was Halo Legends and not even fully
versed helm
I only watched Zoids and Digimon
ocean ibex
I don’t think that’s considered anime
gilded mason
I loved that anime```
👍Halo legends isn’t really even an anime lmao
vague scroll
Halo Legends is absolutely anime
nimble crest
I’ve seen rwby and lucky star
gilded mason
Bad anime. HEH
vague scroll
it's made by something like 13 of the best known anime film houses in Japan
stable flower
It's a wannabe anime like Teen Titans or Totally Spies!
nimble crest
Teen Titans is anime
vague scroll
I don't follow your logic
nimble crest
Don’t tell me other wise
ocean ibex
What is a “wannabe anime” lmao
nimble crest
A cartoon
nimble crest
Look up halo legends Kelly armor
versed helm
Ughhh
gilded mason
It's still a cringy addition that none of the other Spartans have
vague scroll
if Halo Legends was drawn by anime studios, doesn't that make it anime?
versed helm
Oh well, Japan have taste lol
nimble crest
Lazy bones
terse lava
I would consider legends anime. It just doesn't have the craziness of a typical anime
versed helm
It’s like warriors wearing masks that resemble another human face, like an Emperor from some dynasty
ocean ibex
Halo legends isn’t an anime cuz I don’t see high school girls whimper every 5 seconds
vague scroll
As someone who watches too much anime (too little by non-anime fan standards), I don't really agree with this notion at all given 343i and Microsoft went to the companies responsible for many of the most well known anime franchises and asked them to do anime shorts for them
nimble crest
Did SPI armor have the capacity for armor abilities like drop shield and armor lock
versed helm
I’m not a fan of high school girls
terse lava
I would love more halo anime
versed helm
Did SPI armor have the capacity for armor abilities like drop shield and armor lock
@nimble crest yes, actually
vague scroll
neither am I, but isn't Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bepop, Naruto and others anime shows not abotu high school girls? Since we're having this discussion 😒
gilded mason
I thought I knew you, Ado.
ocean ibex
In a halo lore channel 
nimble crest
The armor lock function looks like it might seriously injure a person in SPI
vague scroll
armor lock requires shielding, I don't recall SPI ever being able to use armor abilities
nimble crest
It looks like it’d crush you if not in the appropriate armor
versed helm
Oh, right that armor lock
vague scroll
well, I take that back - it could use power ups like in 3, but those aren't tied to armor
nimble crest
I’m talking reach armor lock
versed helm
Well Brutes have them and they’re pretty much naked
But idk, 3’s are ambiguous
@nimble crest sad hours
vague scroll
3's aren't tied to the armor
versed helm
Why you gotta punch the ground tho
ocean ibex
Why do they use titanium for MJOLNIR and spi armor
nimble crest
You just slam down so violently and get surrounded by heavy shields that can deflect wraiths
It’s strong
vague scroll
I believe the phrase is "superhero landing! he did a superhero landing!"
ocean ibex
Energy shields don’t protect against crushing
versed helm
Why do they use titanium for MJOLNIR and spi armor
@ocean ibex it’s an alloy, but I think it’s just best for EVA
versed helm
I like Halo 3’s EVA
vague scroll
insert Jojo meme, jazz hands
ocean ibex
Tungsten is stronger and it’s more resilient to heat
versed helm
Well, it’s not pure titanium
ocean ibex
How hot does plasma burn again
nimble crest
Pretty hot
versed helm
It’s alloyed to augment it’s natural properties, maybe the combination they made is just more suitable for a titanium framework
Instead of tungsten
ocean ibex
Isn’t alloy steel stronger tho
versed helm
Not always. Usually, but that’s relative to us
Not whatever they’re dealing with in Halo
nimble crest
I think JOM is a better material then tungsten or alloy steel for its endurance
ocean ibex
I guess titanium is lighter
versed helm
Imagine discovering a composite that makes aluminium 10x stronger, but when alloyed with tungsten is only like a 20 percent improvement
Similar deal here
I’m guessing
nimble crest
Honestly is unappreciated JOM is
versed helm
What’s JOM
nimble crest
JOeMama hahah
versed helm
How hot does plasma burn again
@ocean ibex I think 3000C for close proximity, indirect bombardments. 5000 for direct hits from a Ghost’s cannons
JOeMama hahah
@nimble crest 😤
nimble crest
Gottem
nimble crest
Had to do it honestly
versed helm
You had to do it to ‘em
ocean ibex
How many shots does it take to disable unshielded MJOLNIR
ocean ibex
Yes
nimble crest
Not long
versed helm
Probably a long burst would do it
vague scroll
you'd sooner melt the person inside then disable the armor
ocean ibex
Wouldn’t it be like 2-3 realistically
versed helm
Depends where you hit, I’m guessing
Probably two for the undersuit, 5 or so for the thicker portions
vague scroll
metal is an excellent conductor of heat, the human body has a harder time with hot things than metal - cook the armor long enough and the wearer inside will cook like a beetle
ocean ibex
I’m pretty sure 2 shots from a 50 cal sniper will completely kill a spartan
vague scroll
one shot honestly would do fine
versed helm
Eh, not really
nimble crest
The undersuit is heat proof of course
versed helm
Depends on the .50
vague scroll
there's no such thing as "heat proof"
versed helm
Plus Halo rounds are stupidly powerful sometimes
vague scroll
just like there's no such thing as "bullet proof"
ocean ibex
Blacktip, armor piercing rounds
versed helm
Modern arms, I doubt it
ocean ibex
Wouldn’t it go straight through
vague scroll
Halo weapons are modern arms
nimble crest
Fire proof heat resistant
versed helm
Halo’s sniper rifle literally has the penetration value of an RPG-7
vague scroll
the UNSC's main caliber is the 7.62 x 51 mm NATO
the same cartridge use in battle rifles today
ocean ibex
That’s ak rounds
vague scroll
AK is chambered in 7.62 x 39 mm @ocean ibex
ocean ibex
An ak47 is better than most unsc battle rifles change my mind
vague scroll
AK rounds are a smaller variant of 7.62
we're talking about 7.62 x 51 as in what's used in the M14
ocean ibex
M14 is weak conpared to other semi autos
versed helm
Br is at least 7KJ or energy, which is nearly 4x the power of an AK-47
versed helm
Also has a range of 900M and is a stubby round which is very gruesome
vague scroll
what does "weaker" even mean?
ocean ibex
Less punch
nimble crest
Halo’s sniper rifle literally has the penetration value of an RPG-7
@versed helm
By that scale the STANCHION has the penetration value of a m1 Abrams
versed helm
It does
vague scroll
that doesn't make any sense, "punch" as in bullet penetration or as in stopping power all comes down to the bullet
not the weapon
ocean ibex
Penetration
vague scroll
the MK17 SCAR Heavy uses the same bullet as the H&K G3 and the M14, they have the same penetration
ocean ibex
Nvm then
versed helm
Stanchion can penetrate 30cm of starship grade titanium, and makes fireballs from overpenetrating Unggoy @nimble crest
vague scroll
they have the same stopping power, they have the same range with exception to trivial determinate things like how you set up the barrel length, the twist rate, etc.
ocean ibex
Do armor piercing rounds work on energy shielding
vague scroll
I may not be a firearms expert but I can tell you the UNSC MA5 is using the same stuff we use today
versed helm
I don’t think so Bruv
vague scroll
armor piercing just means a more dense material on the tip of the bullet, you wouldn't really be getting much difference in the way with energy shielding
versed helm
@vague scroll impossible to be, by showings. A dozen MA5 rounds is shown as enough to rival a single SRS99 round
And said round is.. several times better than what we have as an equivalent
vague scroll
it would already have a lower travel velocity due to the mass but it would also have more stopping power than a regular 7.62 because it's a lighter material
@versed helm gameplay is not representative of canon or even realism
versed helm
I’m getting this from Troy Denning’s books
vague scroll
an MA5's effective range of 30 feet would certainly make no sense in real life
ocean ibex
2 marines can take on an elite in canon I think
vague scroll
and Denning may like his military sci fi but he's not writing 1:1 accurate, he probably knows more about guns than I do but it's not like his words are gospel
ocean ibex
Ma5 doesn’t have an option for aiming down sights
versed helm
Good luck finding someone who actually knows what they’re talking about XD
vague scroll
it does actually @ocean ibex
ocean ibex
It’s sights must be garbage
nimble crest
It doesn’t have sights
vague scroll
I know too many people but they consider this discord the plague or have already been banned
nimble crest
It’s intended to be linked with a hud
vague scroll
@nimble crest the MA5D does actually
nimble crest
Oh
ocean ibex
So it’s not a flat rail
nimble crest
On jah?
vague scroll
you have to look closely at the weapon model though
versed helm
I know too many people but they consider this discord the plague or have already been banned
@vague scroll who are these people
vague scroll
military enthusiasts, veterans, people that read too many books
usually people hanging around the Halopedia, SOTP, Fanon, and Operation Trebuchet Discords
ocean ibex
Does the BR33 allow full auto
vague scroll
33?
versed helm
Books and feats are fun to talk about, but taking them seriously is a joke
vague scroll
there's the BR55 and 85
ocean ibex
The 55 is what I meant
vague scroll
BR55 is 2 and 3, BR85 is 4 and 5
ocean ibex
A 5 round burst would shred energy shielding
vague scroll
The SPV3 variant of the BR55 added a full auto function but that's a fan creation so you don't really have to take that seriously
nimble crest
The br in infinite look like 55s
vague scroll
there's also a full auto BR in Halo Online but that game got canceled long before it could be viable
ocean ibex
The 55 is a precision rifle
vague scroll
it's officially called the BR75 @nimble crest
I was the one who sourced the images for it on Halopedia
versed helm
There’s also a fully auto one in H2A
vague scroll
what BR is full auto in H2A?
nimble crest
How often were elephants used
versed helm
Just in a cutscene, you can’t use it lol
nimble crest
And what was the top speed
versed helm
They shot a spec ops elite 5 times at once with a BR55
And what was the top speed
@nimble crest I dunno that one
vague scroll
oh well, cutscenes are poor representations for that matter - Halo 5 cutscene weapons lose barrels and scopes all the time
elephants make appearances in Halo 3 and Wars 1 I think only
versed helm
It’s Blur, so I’d give it some more credit. The novels also have them as full auto
vague scroll
as for top speed, there's no right answer there
that I can confirm, that there are full auto options for the BR in the books - Contact Harvest I believe featured such
versed helm
And a 60 round mag
ocean ibex
Are there any lmgs
versed helm
Pretty sure you would need to stack rounds in a weird way to get 60 out of them
vague scroll
M739 SAW, Halo 4 & 5 @ocean ibex
nimble crest
Lmgs? Yes
vague scroll
you could say the same about the CE MA5 but like I keep having to harp on guys in here... gameplay isn't canonical to a T
nimble crest
And the one that was never released on 2
vague scroll
oh that? that's the M247 GPMG
it's in Halo 2
but as a mounted weapon
the mounted machine guns in Reach are a cousin of the H2 LMG, called the M247H
versed helm
Well, as for bullet resistance: Oblivion and Silent storm highlight how Mark IV pings off 7.62x51, and that it’s only a moderate concern for the undersuit. .50 caliber can be glanced off, but only for lucky shots
ocean ibex
Surprised 50 cals weren’t common, they’re old but very reliable
versed helm
Said .50 was a Depleted Uranium round fired by a Vulcan, so it’s a bit more powerful than one you would have for a sniper
vague scroll
yeah but that's an issue of written prose - @versed helm if another author decides that a Spartan is going to die from a head shot by a sniper rifle, they can do it without much concern
versed helm
That hasn’t happened before, though
vague scroll
the same SRS99 you're thinking of can also shoot and kill pilots in Seraphs apparently (Denning)
ocean ibex
Spartan visors are the easiest spot to hit
versed helm
The visor’s also pretty durable. It’s only a little more fragile than the shoulder plate for GEN2
And chief was kicked by locke without damaging it
ocean ibex
A well placed shot from a 50 bmg will prob completely knock out the person even if the user had full shields
versed helm
Even Elite shields can take a .50
Actually, 14.5x114 (IIRC)
So more than a .50
And Spartan shielding is much better than that
vague scroll
.51 technically it's based on a South African sniper rifle round as I recall
ocean ibex
They would suffer internal bleeding tho
versed helm
Nope, the Elite was just fine from the first hit
The shields took it
Brute Chieftans can also deflect .50 pretty effortlessly
In Envoy and a comic book
versed helm
In design, but it can’t penetrate anywhere near as much. Halo’s SRS99 can punch through a literal bunker of concrete (1 meter)
ocean ibex
14.5x114 (IIRC) is a real life bullet
It’s based off the ptrd anti tank rifle used by the soviets
vague scroll
and this is a very good reason why I do not take Halo lore description about firearms even remotely seriously
ocean ibex
I’m sorry, I completely missed the reason why
vague scroll
you're fine, I meant hey saying that the SRS99 can punch through something that the real life round and rifle can't
versed helm
But anyway, by that metric then no, .50API won’t go through MJOLNIR
vague scroll
even though they use the same firing mechanism and bullet dimensions
versed helm
modern .50
It depends on the writer I guess
They say that the Battle Rifle uses an experimental propellant that lets a really stubby round (which naturally would have terrible range and velocity), travel farther and faster than any 5.56
vague scroll
yeah so, I'll say to wrap my debate up - I love Denning as a writer but I'd rather not treat what he says about lore as verbatim when lore and canon is fundamentally fluid
as long as I can simplify things down to AR bullet = do damage, BR bullet do more damage, SRS bullet = do most damage, that's about all I need to enjoy the books
ocean ibex
I bet incendiary rounds are effective against any covenant target
versed helm
Well, you just have to remember that Covies are big, and their armor’s thick
And made of a metal likely with extreme properties
nimble crest
Indeed
vague scroll
if their body material is possibly fire retardant, it may not be so though given how effective the Halo flamethrower is, I would guess incendiary weapons are very effective
versed helm
The Halo flamethrower has burned longswords to a crisp
I dunno wth they use for fuel
vague scroll
officially the term is nanolaminate, it's about as resilient as the UNSC's Titanium-A
ocean ibex
Why do they still build new flamethrower models, isn’t it a completely obsolete weapon by even the 21st century
vague scroll
they use the collected tears of Unggoy
cedar surge
Well
vague scroll
sometimes you just want to see the world burn
ocean ibex
The range is poor and it can’t burn through most metals
vague scroll
flamethrowers can reach out far more than you think
Halo flamethrowers are a joke compared to the real thing...
cedar surge
13 meters
vague scroll
they're essentially firehoses of gasoline tipped with a torch
you don't get that in Halo, though the Flamethrower is still such a fun weapon
cedar surge
The one in 3 is not meant for infantry
n its role as a defoliant projector, it is designed to be used to rapidly clear away heavy foliage for in-theater construction projects and to destroy new or persistent growth from emplaced and/or hardened military assets
ocean ibex
Lol, a spartan can literally walk through the flames while you’re tryna burn him
vague scroll
in ODST, it's a good tool for getting out of a tight spot @cedar surge
nimble crest
The real flamethrower irl is seriously nerfed imo and shows that the halo one is better
versed helm
Why
vague scroll
why you say that? there are certainly a lot of private citizens out there that make them because they can...
nimble crest
War crime
versed helm
Snore
ocean ibex
I meant military usage of flamethrowers
terse lava
War crime and obsolete
vague scroll
well yes, war crime is a big part of it
nimble crest
Shush chatty monkey