Maybe not right away
#lore-and-universe
west silo
humble yacht
that goes against how the terminals depicted the interaction
west silo
Like a cliffhanger or
gritty siren
what i mean by halo infinite is like the base release
west silo
10 year plan
gritty siren
I think it will be some dlc
west silo
Yeah that
west silo
I hope they have a lot of content
west silo
Don't worry its not a looter shooter
versed helm
why would the augment the diaphram
@ornate sierra To enhance your ability to breathe I guess.
west silo
And I doubt microtranaction will be in the campaign
versed helm
Speaking of garbage monetisation models, I wonder if Spartans have to pay for armour sets.
humble yacht
no
vestal ermine
I would be mad if Atriox is not in it and not an antagonist.
humble yacht
it's already been revealed that Escharum is the main antag
as the leader of the Hand of Atriox
vestal ermine
Yes, but what happened to Atriox? If he's killed off already, that would be very disappointing. I would wish Atriox would at least be either be encountered and possibly a final boss
humble yacht
we may or may not find out in Infinite
gritty siren
aw hell no
humble yacht
last we left him, he was stranded on the Ark
gritty siren
i dont want him to be a boss
vestal ermine
Why not?
gritty siren
i want to see him after base infinite
humble yacht
did 343 say that infinite is Chief's last story
vestal ermine
Well Infinite will be last traditional halo game.
humble yacht
Infinite will be the platform for Halo for the next 10 years, is the plan
gritty siren
eh 10 years is a bit too much
west silo
Then halo7
humble yacht
we don't really know what that means for the 10 years or after
vestal ermine
So does that mean Chief's story is not over in Infinite?
gritty siren
if i were 343 i would make it like the whole of the 9th gen
versed helm
Judging by the fact that this game has a live service model, I presume that we will see Atriox in the future of its life cycle as opposed to launch.
gritty siren
i hope infinite gets released in spring
vestal ermine
So that means DLC stories might show up for Infinite in the future?
rugged bobcat
Well.. We do need to see what's left of the Ark since the Ring supposedly "did a number on the ark."-Cortana at the end of H3.. Didn't really see much of it in H4 that I can recall back in the day.. Also I vomited after finding cortana on H5, and just played mp lol
gritty siren
i hope the dlcs are expansive
humble yacht
Well.. We do need to see what's left of the Ark since the Ring supposedly "did a number on the ark."-Cortana at the end of H3.. Didn't really see much of it in H4 that I can recall back in the day.. Also I vomited after finding cortana on H5, and just played mp lol
we already know what happened with the ark
vestal ermine
Oh, expansive! I thought you mean expensive.
humble yacht
that was detailed in the book Hunters in the Dark and the game Halo Wars 2
rugged bobcat
what parts are still intact of the Ark do we know of?
humble yacht
all of it
vestal ermine
So that ring that was prematurely fired was all for nothing?
humble yacht
except for the portal, that's close now but that's because of the things happening on earth
west silo
Yep the ark repaires itself
humble yacht
So that ring that was prematurely fired was all for nothing?
Unfortunately
vestal ermine
I mean, it didn't stop the flood?
west silo
Remember the ark is literally the size of Jupiter
humble yacht
nope
vestal ermine
Now that was a slap in the face by 343 writers.
humble yacht
one of the big reasons I really don't like ATN
rugged bobcat
And in H3 the control room level was evolving at a fast rate you ventured in and out of the control room(i04)
west silo
And a halo is only 10,000km
vestal ermine
So all it did was contain the flood, only to be accidentally released by the Banished?
vestal ermine
Then what was the point of firing the ring in Halo 3?
west silo
To stop the flood
humble yacht
all we know for sure that the firing did was force the Gravemind to regress back to a Proto Gravemind
rugged bobcat
What I liked was the structure basically grows the environment ontop to hide it's secrets
rugged bobcat
right, well from high charity
humble yacht
yes
humble yacht
they came back because of A) lazy monitors, and B) stupid aliens
west silo
B for banished
humble yacht
no i'm talking about the original Covenant
rugged bobcat
before the brutes
west silo
I know am talking the banished
humble yacht
but yes, the banished were stupid too for letting them out after Atriox explicitly told them not to
west silo
Well it was voridus
west silo
He was more glory seeking than stupid
humble yacht
glory seeking and stupidity are cousins
gritty siren
he was power hungry
humble yacht
nobody tries to be stupid on purpose, stupidity is a result of something else
rigid owl
so you guys are concerning Flood appearance in Infinite?
west silo
He can interface with forerunner tech with out the human get out of jail card
rugged bobcat
He'd be bad at poker then
vestal ermine
If he were stupid, wouldn't he have made those advanced technology he had wearing, the Brute power armor and advanced weapons?
west silo
Well it is zeta halo
west silo
And the flood were never stated to have been destroyed on it
humble yacht
yes they were
vestal ermine
Voridus is many things that his elder brother Pavium is not: glory-seeking, impulsive, impatient, vicious, curious, and spontaneous. He is also gifted with an intuitive understanding of Forerunner systems.
west silo
And it also had 11 protograveminds
humble yacht
in stasis
rigid owl
thats a lot dude
humble yacht
its not like they're just roaming free
rugged bobcat
What's the red like planet or core of the Ark?
west silo
Well so were the ones on halo
gritty siren
honestly proto grave minds are kinda small
west silo
How did that end
humble yacht
The Foundry is the part of the Ark responsible for providing raw material for Halo construction
west silo
Ever seen halo wars 2
humble yacht
yea and it's getting kind of old for the flood to get let out on accident
gritty siren
ya
west silo
Not u that above one about graveminds
gritty siren
honestly i want a new take for the flood
like they are intersting and all
but its getting old
west silo
HW2 gave them a new take
humble yacht
they're pretty limited narratively
it's always the same: They break out, they get put back
west silo
Especially those ball ninjas
gritty siren
its infinitely better than the promethians
humble yacht
prometheans are more interesting
gritty siren
Especially those ball ninjas
what
nah
the promethians are poo
imo
big orange meatal dude that are op at close range
humble yacht
and the flood is just space zombies
rugged bobcat
Everything is in space
west silo
Aren't sentinels just laser drones?
humble yacht
kind of
gritty siren
I mean gameplay wise
humble yacht
gameplay-wise the flood are very one dimensional
humble yacht
elite flood and human flood are reskins of the same unit
rugged bobcat
Since the story is known for the rings that wipe all life clearly this has been tried before the Chief's existence, so then there should be some more [flood] that are locked away on other rings, that didn't get obliterated entirely.. And if that's the case were those holding cells, meant, for those wanting to survive the blasts, or are there other locations that would protect and be the exact purpose of this?
humble yacht
they don't act different at all
west silo
Each promethean is unique as well
gritty siren
the promethians look the same
humble yacht
But they act different
west silo
All flood look the same
gritty siren
pin the models
humble yacht
even different Knights play different roles
Knight Battlewagon is all about close range combat, Knight Snipe has long range weapons and that cool teleport strike, Commanders have heavy weapons
crawlers act like the swarm type enemy, easy to kill but uses numbers to overwhelm
watchers play support roles
Soldiers largely take over Knights' roles in H5, which I didn't like too much, but they at least have different forms and do more than rush you with bad aim
the most interesting flood unit we've had in an FPS halo was the pure form, since it could be 3 different flood. but the stalker form was only used to move around, so that was kind of a waste
west silo
Why do people still think that the promethean knights could actually defeat the flood during the war
humble yacht
the Knight frames were designed specifically to fight the flood
but the flood had grown too powerful and there were never enough essences to compensate
west silo
I find the theory about the knights being uninfectable by the flood to just be a trick by the gravemind since monitors can also be infected and there also composed. Well some of them
humble yacht
it was simply a numbers game: not enough knights. but in a 1-1 fight, knight wins for sure
the Knights had their free will locked away, so like Offensive Bias, they did not have the capacity to choose the flood
humble yacht
Also we've never seen a Monitor under Flood influence
west silo
Yes in slientium
humble yacht
what monitor?
west silo
Unknown
It was when they first encountered the flood
They state that it was an earlier version of the logic plague because it only made the insane
Unlike the ones that put them under there control
inner basin
They state that it was an earlier version of the logic plague because it only made the insane
Being sent insane isn’t really the same as being under Flood influence/control
west silo
I said it was an earlier version of it
The didact got used by the flood to essentially plant doubt in the remaining forerunners and he was only made insane
humble yacht
This is why the logic plague is a dumb plot device
inner basin
But you answered this
Also we've never seen a Monitor under Flood influence
with
Yes in slientium
humble yacht
it basically becomes whatever the plot needs it to be
west silo
By the wnd of the book every forerunner ai in contact with the flood or a infected ai comes under there control
humble yacht
except Offensive Bias
and prometheans
but prometheans aren't true AI
and OB was created without the ability to choose
west silo
Warrior-Servants methodically destroyed the infected fleets, leaving only scattered remains to analyze —damaged monitors and broken bits of armor. A few of the recovered monitors were beyond repair or even interrogation. They had been subjected to a hitherto unknown philosophical corruption— much like the perversion later observed in Mendicant Bias. They quickly spread their corruption to other AIs. It was obviously not healthy for an ancilla to match wits with a Gravemind. The same might have been true of
Here it is
So yes monitors were being infected and spreading it to orhers
humble yacht
well Silentium had a Flood infection that spanned the galaxy
they were stronger then, and their abilities are a direct relation to their size
a single gravemind will not be able to logic plague like a galaxy spanning infestation
Penitent Tangent may have been rampant but he was still very much wanting to destroy the flood
west silo
Oh I was talking about prometheans in the forerunner flood war
humble yacht
i know
west silo
Dang even catalog units who are cyborgs can be infected by it
delicate notch
😮
dense pulsar
I don't get it
Halsey at first feels bad about kidnapping kids to make into super soldiers because they ultimately die
But in Halo 4 she's like "they're humanities evolution bro"
inner basin
I mean I guess she’s had over 30 years to think about it
And roughly 4 of them are spent locked up
delicate notch
Wouldnt the flood infected units with a spine intact still be composable by the composer?
west silo
It takes ur essence so more like if the flood has a soul
delicate notch
But even tho the flood has concurred your mind, you are still there, as a passenger.
west silo
Well yes until they take all ur memories leaving u nothing more than a husk
delicate notch
But the "husk" is still has some kind of an essence.
west silo
Well flood can be composed so maybe
humble yacht
Composing a flood unit does not mean you can separate the infection from the host essence
The forerunners tried to reverse infection using the composer. It didn’t work
The new bodies became corrupted too
west silo
It just makes u goo
delicate notch
Ah, they did, didnt know 🙂
west silo
I can try to find it if u like
west silo
Ight
delicate notch
Lght?
versed helm
hi
delicate notch
Seems unneeded.
delicate notch
Hello @versed helm
delicate notch
Why? Who is Halo to you @versed helm
delicate notch
@humble yacht Hey, we got a real Halo friend here
gaunt oakBOT
delicate notch
The lore started of with the game, but how do you think it will be from now on? Will the books tell the story of the game or the other way around?
west silo
The lore actually started with the book
delicate notch
Really? @west silo
west silo
Yep the fall of reach was written as a prequel to halo CE
Just for some lore for the characters
delicate notch
Well, yea. But the game was before the books wasnt it?
craggy sierra
No actually
nimble crest
What purpose did the tacpad serve for Spartans
craggy sierra
The book came out a few weeks before as part of the marketing buildup
delicate notch
@craggy sierra Yea, I get that. But it must have been parallell at least. A game needed a story and Eric wrote a story for a game.
gilded mason
Nah, Bungie actually didn't want Nylund to write the book
humble yacht
eric had access to the halo bible to write the novel but beyond that, there is little connection with the events of the game
also yea, ostral is correct
nimble crest
Does anyone know?
craggy sierra
What even is the tacpad?
humble yacht
a secure terminal to connect to UNSC battle net
craggy sierra
Keyboard for his dms. Easy
delicate notch
What was first tho, written book lore, or the idea for the game.
humble yacht
the idea for the game came first
west silo
But the book came out first
delicate notch
The book being released first doesnt tell anything about the developed game's lore.
But I guess its pretty much splitting hair.
cedar surge
Did bungies just not want to expand the halo universe?
They are so against any books or side games
unique rune
Bungie allegedly just didn't like the idea of other people working on their franchise
at least that's how I understand it
gilded mason
Think that's it
dense pulsar
I like the books and extra side content
cedar surge
Because they think anyone else would do worse?
gilded mason
Because it's theirs
unique rune
Yeah
dense pulsar
It connects the dots for alot of the extended universe and puts emphasis on just how dire things are
unique rune
It's not necessarily a case of "oh they won't do as good a job" as much as it is "no it's mine and I'm not sharing"
cedar surge
There is still a big gap of the war
dense pulsar
Too bad Bungie doesn't run the show anymore
craggy sierra
The war really doesn’t need to be filled out
cedar surge
the siege of the inner colonies
craggy sierra
A. It’s over now
B. Just take reach and multiply those events a few hundred times with a different cast of characters and that’ll pretty much be the same result.
unique rune
Huh.
Now that I'm actually looking at Sunray 1-1 for no reason in particular, the painted mustang on Vaughn's M41 must be real inconvenient, considering the tubes on the 41 are meant to just be dumped altogether once spent.
craggy sierra
Was this an event caused by the covenant?
Cause again if it’s just destruction and death at the hands of the covenant, take reach and imagine it with different characters and the location changed.
There’s not exactly many new revelations about the war that can be given to us.
It was 27 years of just us getting trounced until the enemy forced decided to cannibalize themselves in the last 2 months and cause a civil war.
The extended universe now a days is much better served looking into the repercussions of the war than just embellishing a conflict we all know the outcome of where most of the people in the story will end up dead or defeated.
I looked it up and yeah
It’s just a bunch of planets getting murked by the covenant
cedar surge
well some managed to fight the covenant off
terse lava
I did rather enjoy the views we got into the war from the Covenant side. The Return, Cole protocol, Broken Circle, Silent Storm/Oblivion. Made the Covenant an actual civilization rather then boring aliens
craggy sierra
My concern is that anything really focusing on humanity’s side is gonna just be been there, done that, while the aliens just get painted as the big bad generic bad guys.
Kinda like Reach
craggy sierra
So why do we need more stories telling us about the act of getting genocided?
And yeah that’s my point
War era conflicts have the nuance of a hammer to the face.
west silo
To be honest I like that the expanded universe exist if it didn't I would have dropped halo long ago
cedar surge
yea
terse lava
To be fair, the covenant view has been almost only military
We have not had a covenant civvie book yet
west silo
Iike with out the EU halo would be boring
Dang and if anything more fans are asking for more lore books soooooo
craggy sierra
But yeah, reach basically ruined my interest in the entire prequel war era single handedly by just stripping itself of all the alien based intrigue of the other games. I don’t want to see more media that is literally just that and nothing but.
Gimmie more stuff like Legacy of Onyx and Renegades
cedar surge
reacch isn't represtative of all the war
terse lava
"Prequel war era" think we only have 4 books on that really
Forerunner trilogy and first half of Broken Circle
cedar surge
yea but those are books hundreeds of thousands or a few thousand years ago
terse lava
Its the wording that bothered me
cedar surge
also how did reach ruin prequal war if its during the war?
terse lava
4 actually
craggy sierra
Like I said earlier the war was just 27 years of us getting curb stomped and the potential for unique stories there is heavily limited by how the covenant behave in that period. Basically just indiscriminately killing and take no prisoners.
terse lava
Thus why i would prefer a covenant centered story away from the war
west silo
Warhammer is all about losing and its lore is still awesome
west silo
As long as u look pass the memes
terse lava
The Covenant is crazy vast, and we only get to know a little sliver
craggy sierra
You can just summarize those entire 27 years by saying “it was a bad time” without needing to go into explicit detail over every individual conflict that has been named.
west silo
Broken circle proved that
craggy sierra
Yes, it did
west silo
I mean the above statement
craggy sierra
But Halo’s lore isn’t all about losing.
cedar surge
anything can be summerized in a few words
terse lava
Mine or Waffle's?@west silo
terse lava
Ok
terse lava
Though now curious how Broken Circle in Waffle's eyes summarizes " it was a bad time"
west silo
Dang odst literally starts with where losing
craggy sierra
I like the universe focusing on the present because there’s uncertainty and change afoot in the galaxy. And not just the type of uncertainty where an entire races is at risk of being Genocide. But actual change and diplomacy coming post-war with various factions defined by ideology in conflict over how society is being reformed.
cedar surge
well most people post war just look fine working with covenant
so not exactly anything there
west silo
Post war is basically a star wars side quest
cedar surge
yea
craggy sierra
There’s like two instances of confirmed co-operation on an official government level.
west silo
That was never the theme of halo
cedar surge
did halo ever had a theme in the first place
west silo
The underdog fighting against insurmountable odds
craggy sierra
It really didn’t
cedar surge
and it better not be "humanities back to the wall"
cedar surge
that is a adaptation of halo by another
terse lava
There was plenty before
west silo
Cortana, ghost, POA , Baird?
terse lava
What makes you say otherwise?
craggy sierra
There was but I’m pretty sure the theme is set by the games
cedar surge
sacrifice of cole,sacrifice of harmony and troy
west silo
What do u example
nimble crest
How many IIs are still alive
craggy sierra
Okay but the narrative themes Halo’s primarily known for heralds from the games and in that regard Halo 2 made its theme nuance about the covenant and a civil war and societal shift away from fundamentally flawed beliefs and Halo 3’s theme seemed to be co-operation between the humans and elites.
west silo
Soooo halo has a lot of themes?
cedar surge
who could have knew
terse lava
I would say halo's theme is Atonement/Redemption
craggy sierra
Going back in time is literally regressing the theming away from what Halo 2 setup and Halo 3 half heartedly tried to follow up on. But it’s also a theme that has been becoming much more prevalent in the EU.
cedar surge
well i mean,halo just like during the war still has conflict
humanityis getting attacked every other tuesday
craggy sierra
Exploring the repercussions and politics and personal impacts of the war since it ended. Both good bad and otherwise.
cedar surge
thats because 2 and 3 were at the end of the war
west silo
And the humans are still working with the elites more closely than they realistically should
terse lava
Every game besides HW1 was in the last few months of the war
craggy sierra
And now the war is over and the story telling in the EU is very heavily based around cataloguing and exploring the changing galactic picture.
west silo
Like arbiter is seen by some as a hero dispite killing billions
terse lava
I dont mind that, post war would be fine but some of it does seem a tad silly
craggy sierra
Yeah some of it does but also a lot of war era content seemed a bit silly as well.
west silo
4 years i forgive a man for murdering billions in 4 years?
cedar surge
"Hey i know i commited many warcrimes against your people but i saved you in the literal last few months so are we cool now?"
craggy sierra
No one’s really forgiven him
terse lava
Well I did greatly enjoy Renegadea. First time since Ghosts of Onyx I gave a flip about humans in the setting
cedar surge
and some elites are straight up hypocrites
west silo
Especially jul
craggy sierra
There was an entire trilogy of books about the UNSC trying to antagonize his cause by funding Sangheili dissidents
cedar surge
they got upset when gray team turned their planet into play doh
craggy sierra
I’d hardly say that he’s been forgiven by anyone
west silo
When they were about to do the same to earth
cedar surge
forgetting they more or less did the same things X 700
craggy sierra
My point is, who tf said he was forgiven by humanity at any point in time?
cedar surge
well i know this one guy in general did,but im not using that as a source
west silo
Not by humanity as a whole but by some
craggy sierra
You don’t try to destabilize the political landscapes of people you’ve forgiven by funding violent wars on their turf.
west silo
They should be forgiven just not so fast
candid laurel
The world forgave germany for their actions
west silo
After a 28 year genocidal war
candid laurel
The unsc should forgive the elites in time
craggy sierra
Tbh there’s a lot of stuff I’m curious about in how peace between the races were announced.
west silo
Because to be honest they were tricked
craggy sierra
Like did humanity have a press conference with elites?
cedar surge
im not sure the people who got their families killed by the elites would forgive them
candid laurel
Humans and elites should be getting along
west silo
But they also massicard them with religious zeal
cedar surge
"ey i know you nearly killed my entire species,but do you want a hotdog?"
craggy sierra
See this is the type of stuff we could be delving into with complex political post-war relations and why I’d much rather the story telling continue to focus on the here and now.
west silo
I heard ur grandma died want a beer?
Mine got glassed
cedar surge
the elites litteraly just betrayed the covenant in the final months of the war,and after the war a ton of elites didn't agree with the arbiter for peace with humanity
west silo
I agree a mix between post war and war like they've been doing
cedar surge
many elites didn't save humanity out of the goodness of their heart
its cause of the arbiter
west silo
That too they still think there right
craggy sierra
Yeah we know
west silo
So much They had a civil war about it
cedar surge
it would be dumb for people to just have beers with elites talking like old friends
west silo
And the SOS were losing
craggy sierra
Lance I don’t know what you’re even talking about at this point
candid laurel
When do you think humans and elites will get along eventually
cedar surge
maybe in half a century?
west silo
20 or 25 years in all honesty
cedar surge
or a few decades
craggy sierra
We’ve said multiple times now that humanity is still by and large not fine with elites in their day to day lives
west silo
Just not 4 years
cedar surge
yea post war needed a much bigger time period
unique rune
I'm sure it'd easily take a few decades.
Even then there'd probably be a fair bit of lingering resentment.
cedar surge
yea there are some human extremists who don't want peace with the elites
west silo
The last relevant stronghold of humanity
cedar surge
why are elites refugees?
delicate notch
@cedar surge Speaking of ONI?
cedar surge
they only lost two planets
west silo
Imagine if the plot of nightfall happened on earth
cedar surge
that makes no sense to me
craggy sierra
There are elite refugees on earth
Okay, and?
west silo
But They should work together
cedar surge
the elites only lost population in the schism,civil war between themselves, and in the war against humanity
not as much as humanity lost
west silo
And humans are pretty much scorned an shangelios
cedar surge
the elites barely lost ground
craggy sierra
Countries irl accept refugees from warring nations. It’s not unheard of. And I doubt they’d exactly be living the most harassment free lives.
cedar surge
well yea
west silo
the elites only lost population in the schism,civil war between themselves, and in the war against humanity
@cedar surge
And elites lost most of their stuff fighting eachotherEach other
cedar surge
i think at the start of hunt the truth a terroist group were going after a elite diplomat
craggy sierra
Hell in legacy of onyx a female elite literally gets attacked by a soldier assigned to the joint research project because he blamed her for someone’s death during the war.
west silo
Countries irl accept refugees from warring nations. It’s not unheard of. And I doubt they’d exactly be living the most harassment free lives.
@craggy sierra
An entire nation that's trying to kill u
craggy sierra
*was trying to kill you
cedar surge
heck it makes sense that oni would try to sabotage the elites,just not so soon
craggy sierra
Now only a not insignificant portion is trying to.
west silo
The elites are having a civil war about it
craggy sierra
Yes they are
terse lava
Ah, ONI's evil crop plan. Still funny even now
cedar surge
truelly the most evil thing
west silo
That shows that a majority at least agree
terse lava
It's like a saturday morning cartoon plot
cedar surge
the ones who want to ally with humanity?
west silo
It's stupid that the elites only have major crop
cedar surge
to the ones who want the destruction of humanity?
craggy sierra
I’m pretty sure they also bank rolled terrorists
To work against Arby
That’s at least an adult swim plot
cedar surge
the SoS almost lost to the elites that wanted humanities destruction
that does not sound like the majority
west silo
The infinity had to save them
cedar surge
yes
west silo
Because the swords must have ran out of ships are something
craggy sierra
Again, ONI was literally bank rolling the opposing side too.
cedar surge
to overwhelm the SoS
west silo
Makes it funnier that a insane dad was able to get a covenant ship
cedar surge
all he had to tell them was that the arbiter let humans onto sanghellios
and it was all downhill from there
west silo
So elites joined to murder humanity to find there God's once again
cedar surge
not all elites
cedar surge
they just believed the forerunners were gods
craggy sierra
Jul’s covenant had a lot of external support from other races as well while SoS is mostly just elites
west silo
A majority since they outnumbered the arbiters forces
craggy sierra
coughs in previous comment
craggy sierra
They also had jackals, and hunters, in addition to what I’m pretty sure was a larger pool of grunts.
cedar surge
the unsc and SoS inadvertantly caused the jul covenant
started with the keepers of the one freedom
craggy sierra
Swords just had themselves and grunts mostly that were probably just their personal housing slaves servants.
west silo
And mostly jackals are mercenaries
cedar surge
i thought the grunts were just working for them
craggy sierra
I feel like it’s just kind of a thing both parties accept as being the way of things now.
west silo
The grunts are I think
craggy sierra
Like there’s nothing concrete but if you’re a grunt it’s usually either go work for an elite or hang out on your crap hole of a world.
Like I’m certain the elites still view them as expendable labour on both sides of that conflict
terse lava
The SOS treat unggoy rather well really
gilded mason
Though at least in the Halo 5 Sanghelios missions, Grunts were only used as assistants, and not actual combatants.
And being allowed to go to that new multi-species school on Onyx is something I imagine wouldn't be done for a species the SoS would consider expendable
terse lava
Dont forget Stolt
craggy sierra
I still feel like grunts are mostly involved because getting treated like cheap labour is still better than their normal standards of living.
craggy sierra
Yeah
cedar surge
the SoS treat the grunts better than the banished
or covenant
or any other faaction really
gilded mason
(Though the SoS should really explicitly show even more species in their ranks...)
west silo
Well duh
craggy sierra
But back to the original point. Jul’s covenant had numbers advantage probably because of much more multi-species support. Not just because more elites wanted to kill humans than not.
cedar surge
i guess they don't want to pay for jackals
west silo
The brutes eat u if ur out of line
gilded mason
Not all Jackals are mercs/pirates. 😔
cedar surge
Avu Med 'Telcam, leader of the Servants of Abiding Truth, decided that an immediate assault on the state of Vadam was necessary. Along with nine ships and forces from Nuan keep and Rtova keep, 'Telcam commanded the assault from the frigate Unflinching Resolve.[11] Eventually, however, the Unflinching Resolve suffered a direct hit and crash landed, though most of the crew, including 'Telcam, survived. Despite being caught off-guard it appeared as though the Swords of Sanghelios would be victorious, however, news spread that he allowed humans to land on Sanghelios; this caused many keeps to ally with the Servants of Abiding Truth and the tide turned in their favor. The Arbiter was caught off guard and when his own reinforcements couldn't arrive on time, he reluctantly accepted Admiral Terrence Hood's offer for help in fending off the attackers. The tide turned when UNSC Infinity arrived over Sanghelios and destroyed the rebel destroyer Defender of Faith before finishing off the rebel ground forces with a MAC round. The UNSC Port Stanley, posed as a Kig-Yar pirate ship, destroyed a few of 'Vadam's ships in order to maintain the stalemate between the two factions, leaving the Arbiter with a Pyrrhic victory.
gilded mason
The UNSC Port Stanley, posed as a Kig-Yar pirate ship, destroyed a few of 'Vadam's ships in order to maintain the stalemate between the two factions, leaving the Arbiter with a Pyrrhic victory.
🤮
terse lava
Ugh
craggy sierra
Honestly I was thinking about why they probably wouldn’t get too involved unless a side was paying them or they had religious followers. Would they have a reason to? It feels like Australia sticking itself into the middle of a war between America and Russia.
cedar surge
if it wasn't for humanity the arbiter would have lost the civil war
gilded mason
If it wasn't for the UNSC, this wouldn't have happened in the first place
craggy sierra
From that description it sounded like he was winning the war until caught at a tactical disadvantage
Not just being outnumbered to an egregious degree.
gilded mason
The Servants literally admitted they had absolutely no way to strike against Thel until ONI came by
craggy sierra
Ostral this whole topic is about diplomacy btw and how it’s apparently stupid that the elites have any degree of co-operation with humanity and how the elites still almost unanimously hate us because they nearly beat thel once so that clearly means they have way more numbers in opposition.
While ignoring all tactics and context leading to that situation.
west silo
If it wasn't for humans being on sanghelios it wouldn't have happened
And humanity allowed elites on earth
Bruh
cedar surge
bruh and truth combined?
gilded mason
While ignoring all tactics and context leading to that situation.```
Ye, I know.i didn't say that nearly all elites hated humanity,i said it didn't seem like the majority
majority of elites who wanted to work with us
gilded mason
If that were true, then humanity would kinda be already done for Ah, misread that, I think(?)
west silo
No one said it was stupid
gilded mason
Its just stupid that it happened so fast```
It's gotta since 343 didn't make Halo 4 take place in 2577I’m pretty sure every covenant race individually out numbers us let alone if they wanted to work together unanimously against us.
cedar surge
well humanity brought down the elites a few billion
west silo
Sorry about that
gilded mason
A few billion seems like pretty high-balled
craggy sierra
They took way more than a few billion of us.
cedar surge
both nova bombs remember?
gilded mason
Oh yeah
cedar surge
glyke and that other elite planet
gilded mason
I forgot about...The Nova
west silo
Heresy!!!
cedar surge
they alsolost millions inthe war
craggy sierra
Weren’t we in excess of 50 billion losses? Like, by a very long mile?
craggy sierra
I thought that was the remaining number
west silo
Nope the remaining is 9 billion
cedar surge
we hade a population of39 billion
west silo
On earth
west silo
Warfleet population numbers
cedar surge
i heard about a few post war reach sized colonies
like 700 million
but yea
they cut the elites some
gilded mason
We?
west silo
How do the elites have so little colonies
gilded mason
They don't
gilded mason
They occupy potentially several thousand colonies
cedar surge
and how many does the SoS control?
gilded mason
No idea.
west silo
Oh yeah another billion number might come from silent storm
cedar surge
did that number come from warfleet?
gilded mason
Which number, the "several thousands"?
cedar surge
yea
gilded mason
Ye
cedar surge
oh
west silo
The planet the obital ring feel on in the book killing everyone in the city
gilded mason
Karen Traviss does not understand scale.
cedar surge
sci fi writers in general don't
gilded mason
True lol
west silo
She made more than a trillion sentinels disappear
gilded mason
And poor Jerrod
craggy sierra
Also I don’t know how much of a choice 343 had with when Halo 4 took place. 2577 would’ve kinda been way past the point of Cortana even possibly still being intact.
west silo
She still back anyways
gilded mason
They would have been able to write in a way around that.
Say that she was able to put herself in low-power mode, or something similar
west silo
Like the ais in contact harvest
craggy sierra
Feel like AI’s in the Halo universe would’ve gotten much more mileage if they did that out of active hours
gilded mason
Or attempted some novel new method to preserve herself as long as she did almost nothing.
Perhaps using an algorithm she read about on 04
Basically all I'm sayin', 343 had a lot of methods to get around
cedar surge
putting herslef in stasis?
craggy sierra
Besides I’m not sure what would exactly be going different if they did stick it then. I don’t feel like anything is really getting overly rushed in the universe right now. It certainly doesn’t paint everything as being perfect between races.
cedar surge
well lets see
gilded mason
I don’t feel like anything is really getting overly rushed in the universe right now.
Eh, I felt a lot was
cedar surge
the unsc being the "giants now"
craggy sierra
I’m still dubious on that actually being the case
craggy sierra
I’m still pretty sure we just have a single fancy ship.
craggy sierra
Well yeah
But Infinity not withstanding it’s about as much as we had going by the end of 3 I imagine.
I’m still pretty sure the covenant could could just pull a u-turn and come back to stomp us at any point in 4 and 5 if they wanted to.
cedar surge
Warfleet stated hundreds of new ships are being built
And there are many ships we see in escalations 4 and 5
And Jul had like 9 ships
So I really doubt that
Plus ODPs
craggy sierra
I don’t know who tf they’re gonna be getting to command them unless they somehow had massively successful recruitment drives post-war or they’re just upgrading the already existing fleet.
cedar surge
Plus there are bunch of factions claiming to be the covenant
Uh what?
Why would the unsc not have admirals?
Post war we know about a bunch of admirals
Admirals still exist in universe you know
craggy sierra
Ships still need crews and stuff and given the nature of the UNSC I’d imagine most UNSC soldiers are usually assigned to ships or otherwise important planetside postings.
cedar surge
Uh what?
Most soldiers are absolutely not assigned to ships
Try to fit over hundreds of millions of soldiers onto a few ships
craggy sierra
There goes everything I know about the navy
But also that’d be a bureaucratic nightmare trying to track your own people without having them assigned to ships.
cedar surge
Uh
You know
Computors exist right?
We have militaries with millions of soldiers on eartu
And we are still able to track individual soldiers
Its not like the soldiers ate tracked on paper and pencils
craggy sierra
Computers exist but also data has to still be mage legible to humans. Try sifting through a spreadsheet of a hundred million entries trying to find where the hell they are. This stuff is usually done to be efficient from the top down.
cedar surge
Are you going to waste billions of dollars getting every soldier on a ship?
Plus what would be the point of that
craggy sierra
Has there been explicit mention to the contrary being true in Halo lore?
cedar surge
Contrary of what
craggy sierra
Contrary to people doing ship assignments in Halo.
cedar surge
Most soldiers stay on the ground
Like how 300 million soldiers were on reach
What would be the point of putting hundred of thousands of ships in space
For the sole purpose of having solfiers in space
craggy sierra
Because I’m used to just calling everyone in Halo not in power armour a soldier
Fine then
Marines
This still begs the question
cedar surge
Marines are still on the ground
craggy sierra
Where is the UNSC pulling personnel from to fill out these hundreds of new ships without large mass recruitment?
cedar surge
They just also have deployments on ships
@craggy sierra uh
The populace?
Its not like there are only millions of people left
There are still billions
And at most these ships take a few thousand
craggy sierra
Did we get that many new recruits after a bloody and brutal 27 year long war to warrant needing that many more ships?
cedar surge
But most of the navy is made up of frigates
craggy sierra
If anything I think recruitment numbers would be down after that.
cedar surge
Which only need around 190 -200 crew
There are still billions of people left
Along with recruitment drives
Plus the full extent of the war was never cruelly revealed to the public
Plus its not like all of the unsc died in the war
There was still tens of millions of soldiers on other colonies
And the navy wasn't entirely destroyed
Some were still left
craggy sierra
I wasn’t saying they all got deleted
I was saying that to build that many ships you need people to staff them. People to staff them don’t appear from thin air so unless they were replacing their fleet, between that and I imagine post-war engagement with military recruitment being low, I was asking where these new people were coming from.
You have satisfactorily pointed out that the ship staff needed in Halo is not that big as I thought.
cedar surge
Well I imagine the unsc doing recruitment drives to replace the navies losses
craggy sierra
And I still feel like engagement would probably be a little low coming off 27 years of carnage.
nimble crest
So the infinity got toasted during the war at zeta?
craggy sierra
Not confirmed
I doubt it tbh since it’d be kinda hard to miss the wreckage of a thing that size.
cedar surge
@craggy sierra ONI never revealed the true devastation of the war
craggy sierra
We had like 3/4 of our population murked and at no point did word get out being like “yo, the situation’s pretty bad”
Was there literally no news coverage for the large numbers of worlds lost?
craggy sierra
This seems like something ONI wouldn’t have to say anything about.
cedar surge
No one knew how bad the war was goung except for ONI
craggy sierra
Especially after Earth had a continent glassed.
cedar surge
Yes they would
Mass panicks,riots and the like would happen if the public knew
Section 2 went into full work mode
craggy sierra
This sounds insane to an unfathomable degree.
cedar surge
Thata the power of ONI
Also helped that humanity iinternet across the stars wasn't as good yet
craggy sierra
Hell all the evacuations from planets as they were getting destroyed
Where the hell did the refugees go?
Did they just never say anything?
cedar surge
Most died in those evacuations
Like in halo wars where you could save a thousand but you still see tons of people getting gunned down
craggy sierra
That’s still a thousand voices bearing first hand witness to alien invasion.
cedar surge
And even if they managed to get something out on waypoint or chatterbox,ONI still has AI monitoring
ONI has hundreds of AI monitoring the internet
Section 2 of ONI is that powerful of the public
craggy sierra
In a lot of ways that makes the war even less interesting now. And here I thought the galaxy at large was aware of what was going on.
cedar surge
What do you mean galaxy at large?
We are still only in the Orion arm
The only sides of the war was the covenant,unsc,insurrectionists
craggy sierra
Human galaxy
Still though. Absolutely no one except those on a planet immediately under attack knew about this for a whole 27 years.
That’s dumb.
cedar surge
Oh no
That's not what happened
The public knew about the war
just not how bad it was going
For example the harvest campaign
When the unsc got what was left of harvest back ONI was using that for propaganda
So the public knew about when a colony was lost
But ONI would never specify how many forces was lost
Or how many died
craggy sierra
You’d think they’d get a little sus around the 100th one lost
cedar surge
Heck some even thought the war was the UNSC lost
Well
Some colonies were really small
Plus for like the first 5 years innies allied with the covenant because ONI never told how the war started
And they thought the covenant was just going after the unsc
If everyone knew how bad it was there would be mass panics
Like people massing towards covenant to give locations of other colonies to spare theirs
Or massive insurrection spike
Or people killing each other trying to escape the covenant
Or bargaining with the covenant
And the unsc did not need that on their plate at the time
@craggy sierra bit yea its around when the lost reach the public started to know how bad it was
ONI did a good job
Well
Debatable
Hm
Maybe ONI has to much power
craggy sierra
Ya think?
versed helm
Better watch your back @cedar surge before ONI make you disappear lol
cedar surge
Eh I don't have to worry
ONI now is not strong enough
Need to wait 500 years for that
cedar surge
ONI was the intelligence agency for navcom right? What about intelligence agency's for other branches?
tropic forge
versed helm
its all ONI now
lethal comet
its all ONI now
Always has been
kindred epoch
this is why we UNSC need to have boneless bread and throw em at ONI
cedar surge
I fear the day of eating bread and tasting bone
lethal comet
Yum
kindred epoch
Question: can the UNSC and ONI have war?
because i have done a RP with UNSC war against ONI
unique rune
I mean. Potentially you could maybe have some kind of armed conflict in the form of a coup or forceful suppression.
But a full-scale war would be unlikely.
carmine sleet
It wouldn't make sense for ONI to try and wage war with the UNSC, given that ONI's funding comes from the UNSC and that they are part of it, being one of the military branches. If ONI were to go "rogue" so to speak, they'd just disavow the organisation and shut down their operations
carmine sleet
what if the swords of (idk the name) and UNSC fight each other?
The Swords of Sanghelios have no reason to fight the UNSC, given that they have an alliance and have worked together on operations from time to time
lethal comet
Unsc would win
gilded mason
The Swords would win
gilded mason
Apparently they brought many colonies over to their cause. And if the SoS were to suddenly go to war, I imagine they'd embolden some other, smaller, factions to join them in destroying the UNSC.
kindred epoch
what if chief betrayed UNSC and ONI?
oh wait i think i already know the answer
smoll brain
gilded mason
Then he'd lose a lot of resources that were once available to him
kindred epoch
Blue team i meant
gilded mason
Then they all would lose those resources
kindred epoch
What if Fireteam Orisis (ENGLISH) and blue team work together and betrayed UNSC and ONI then
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
lethal comet
Even spartans can't fight an entire military organisation
gilded mason
Eight people won't be able to win
carmine sleet
That would just be eight super soldiers being hunted by a whole bunch of people
lethal comet
Just nuke the flood
carmine sleet
Nukes exist in Halo
kindred epoch
ik
stiff creek
Cute lil HAVOK class boomy
kindred epoch
now im scared of the UNSC, ONI, and Corp now
lethal comet
But they would use a NOVA against the flood now that they know how much of a threat it is
stiff creek
I'd like to see an animated representation of a NOVA going off.
lethal comet
In one of the visual guides or encyclopedia it is given that
Flood is the highest threat level in the unsc
Below that is prometheans
kindred epoch
UNSC: reminds me of the C.O.G ONI: people who want to smack some people Flood: reminds me of the Zombie apoc and corp: FULL WITH HERETICS
now imma grab a shotgun and shoot some spartans with boneless bun shells
cedar surge
Well the SoS potentianally have a hundreds or even a thousand colonies under their control
With the unsc uaving less than 100
kindred epoch
well time to get the hammer of dawn then
cedar surge
Yea the only way the unsc would last long is the Cole protocol
kindred epoch
cole? The Cole train
cedar surge
Actually that wouldnt even be effective anymore because the unsc revealed the location of every colony
carmine sleet
Cole Protocol doesn't really work post war since Earth's location is known
carmine sleet
It is indeed Tracer and I can assure you, I was playing Tracer before you in Overwatch
kindred epoch
oof
lethal comet
im already tracer
You trying to meme 🤨
unique rune
Trying being the key word there
fair hazel
Talking to a friend and stuff and like, it's the realization that, this girl befriends jul 'mdama's son, and im thinkign about how we kill him in warzone simulation and stuff..
Oh memes? Not memes.
red spade
So what's the deal with Cortana's and Master Chief's relastionship? Can we get an official word on that because it confuses the crap out of me? Like, is it familial or is romantic? Was up with that 343?
humble yacht
They’re friends
cedar surge
why is it exactly 343s faullt? their relationship was also in the bungie's time
also
was halsey just planning to kill everyone in escalations?
red spade
Nah, never said it was 343's fault. Just want them to clear it up
red spade
Escalation is kind of weird
cedar surge
wass halsey just planning for the death of everyone on the infinity?
yea the chapter i really like was 7
red spade
Kind of wish we got more Spartan Ops
cedar surge
every other chapter was ok or meh
well this is like season two of spartan ops i guess
candid laurel
kind of wish 343 didn't mess up the artstyle
red spade
Not here pal
candid laurel
ok
red spade
The artstyle is ok and things like changing artstyle usually happens when another studio takes over a project or property from another studio
cedar surge
does escalation have multiple artists? because the quality is constantly changing
red spade
I'm not sure. But yes, I know what you are talking about
cedar surge
so what is halseys plan? i didn't watch all of spartan ops
why does he take off his helmet in the middle of a warzone
why do they keep doing that
do they want to get sniped worse than kat
why do the spartans and odsts shake their hands like they are burned when using energy weapons
jackals are using them barehanded
humble yacht
It’s just an animation
carmine sleet
Aye, it's just to help visualise the weapon overheating
humble yacht
Also covenant don’t shoot enough to overheat they’re weapons. Except for units that use overcharge plasma shot but we don’t know if they shake their hands after
craggy sierra
Considering grunts live in constant hellfire on their home world and have skin like crab shells they probably aren’t that phased by it.
cedar surge
was it hellfire before or after the glassing
round comet
So what's the deal with Cortana's and Master Chief's relastionship? Can we get an official word on that because it confuses the crap out of me? Like, is it familial or is romantic? Was up with that 343?
Yeah people get confused for some reason, they're what you classify as best friends.
cedar surge
they seem kind of closer than that in 4
round comet
they did to me as well initially.
cedar surge
also if that arbiter didn't glas the grunts homeworld during their rebellion what would have happened?
like the grunts gave the covenant a lot of trouble
humble yacht
They seem closer because they’re dealing with the end of their relationship
west loom
Cortana is Palpatine confirmed
candid laurel
if the Arbiter didn't glass their homeworld they would be overwhelmed
sharp adder
Hmm in tgery what would happen if you rammed a guardian with a big enough ship that it went straight through it
cedar surge
it would just disasemble itself to go around the ramming ship
humble yacht
It would either disable the ship with emp or destroy it with lasers
sharp adder
Really it would not be that quick to disassemble and reassemble
If it did hit and ram through it would be destroyed wouldn't it?
sharp adder
Well there are plenty of sgjos and if all else fails do the novq bomb or yap yap stragity
Which is q ceasefire
west loom
the Guardians feel too much like reapers from ME imo
cedar surge
well if you use a nova bomb
you gonna lose the planet your over
and if its a shield worldthe setinals are not going to be happy
candid laurel
how did Earth not know about that portal hidden under New Mombasa
humble yacht
because it was pretty deep and largely under an unpopulated area
inner basin
Dr Endesha was onto it though. He talks about it a little bit near the beginning of Sadie’s Story
At least it sounds like he’s onto it
humble yacht
yes he was because Vergil detected weird seismic activity
cedar surge
The Mantis continued to be in use only by select highly classified ONI units and UNSC Infinity,[2]
it says widespread use but also says this
why isn't the mantis more widespred?
it seems pretty effective
like the cyclops
inner basin
Well they probably only have a limited number (and due to the Created stuff going on can’t really make much more currently) they keep only allow select people to use them, such as Spartans aboard Infinity and ONI personnel
cedar surge
well it was in production before the created
humble yacht
probably because it's expensive to make
it's said that MJOLNIR costed more to make than a small starship
Mantises incorporate MJOLNIR technology
cedar surge
what is palmer even talking about? the spartan armor being soiled? does she not realize there wasn't a time before when the spartan armor that didn't have brainwashed children
and she is being so stubborn
how does she not realize oni supported halsey
humble yacht
without context, who can comment
cedar surge
im at the scene in escalations where palmer captured halsey and is calling er a traitor and a war criminal
and pinning all the blame on halsey
while halsey is being reasonable
and palmer says halsey soiled the armor
and the job as a whole
humble yacht
because that's the narrative ONI painted
ONI has a whole division dedicated to shifting the narrative
lethal comet
ONI section zero iirc
lethal comet
Halsey is ONI
humble yacht
she was disowned by them
lethal comet
Overtly, however, Section Two only deals with external communication and public morale.
versed helm
Halsey is Steve Jobs basically
inner basin
Not really. Last time I checked Steve Jobs didn’t kidnap children and brainwash them
lethal comet
Steve Jobs didn't work for an intelligence agency making child super soldiers
lethal comet
Also, you don't know that for sure
Hmmm 🤔
inner basin
Let’s not start any ridiculous conspiracies, this is for lore and lore speculation in Halo :))
main rivet
Child soldiers are generally a big no-no, throwing Halsey under the bus was the convenient out for that stuff (hell, even given the situation the insurrectionists were facing, it's pretty telling we don't have any reports of that kind of recruitment from them.)
cedar surge
i like that escalations uses older artstyles from time to time
like for the army or older jackels
main rivet
(There's also the argument about whether child soldiers are actually all that effective, and the arc of human history is a pretty resounding 'no'. Obviously the "we have specialized physical augmentations that only work on young adults" changes the calculus somewhat, but I think it's interesting that with all the complaints about the Spartan program, pretty much no one asks if it was ever sensibly conceived from jump.)
Yeah Escalation is pretty much the only place we get actual representation of stuff like the different Jackal subtypes. It's a shame the art is so inconsistent.
There were some good arcs in it.
cedar surge
yea its cool seeing both versions fighting side by side
there was even a skirmisher very earlier
i don't think other species get that much represntation
so for the unsc is it either spartan augs or nothing?
like can you mildly improve or person through augs
or do you have to go all in
humble yacht
Project ORION augs were pretty mild by comparison
but the project was discontinued because it wasn't worth the cost
like what's the point of only marginally increasing someone's abilities
cedar surge
like giving an average soldier more of a chance of surviving in close quarters against any covenant species?
oh yea and post war odsts are wearing more fabric but still have armor
they look fine
better than the marines at least
inner basin
We haven’t really seen many new ODSTs post-war
It’s a shame because I think they’re still awesome, more so than Spartan-IVs imo
P.S that’s not a diss to the IVs, I just love the ODSTs so much more
humble yacht
i think that's just a style choice rather than canonically significant
cedar surge
and the army is also wearing more fabric
humble yacht
they look like H2 odsts
cedar surge
yea they do
humble yacht
but H2 odsts and H3 odsts existed at the same time
humble yacht
it's not like they changed ODST gear in the span of a few weeks
cedar surge
i guess thats the armor they use post war now
humble yacht
it's just art style difference
cedar surge
so you think they mostly still use the same armor?
i thought every armor variant was canon
humble yacht
at a certain point it's impossible to canonicize every art style change
Marines, for instance
in Halo reach, marines are less armored than in CE
but they are literally the same marines. they didn't all change clothes after getting back to the autumn
cedar surge
well the remaster of CE had them use the same armor
cedar surge
im fine with the originial being nullified. it was just cloth with slabs of metal
are eye pieces reserved for higher ranking marines?
green eye pices with information constantly going through them
urban crag
Rip Rookie
cedar surge
yea he got executed
im not so dissapointed he died but the fact he died in a book
most people probably don't know he died
urban crag
Honestly thats the worst way to end off a Protagonist in a game he should of died like noble 6 or something in that nature
cedar surge
rookie still had somewhat of a personality and a character