#lore-and-universe

1 messages Β· Page 389 of 1

terse lava
#

he could have zipped up there

gilded mason
#

His eye laser would have been mighty handy

round comet
#

Tbh they did that to both her and johnson

Staten was really opposed to it

staten was, because he's an actually good writer.

and marty? yeah man i love ya and your music but leave the writing to the people who know how to write, yeah?

cedar surge
#

@craggy sierra well that would be heartless

terse lava
#

Rtas tried glassing it

cedar surge
#

That would kill Johnson

west silo
#

Man what is it with unsc captains putting themselves in the frontline

terse lava
#

then got High Chrityed

craggy sierra
#

Did he though?

cedar surge
#

You know

terse lava
#

He did "Now prophet, your end has come"

cedar surge
#

The Keyes are pretty suicidal

terse lava
#

brought the carrier over the building, and then got hit by high charity chunk

cedar surge
#

They both led assaults they really didn't need to

round comet
#

meh.

west silo
#

Talk about bad luck

terse lava
#

they also both released the flood in a worse way

#

"Hey, let's go into this creepy building with dead covies, surely nothing bad here"

round comet
#

like i said, marty should have stuck to the music

gilded mason
#

Poor In Amber Clad. Awesome ship name and music associated with it.

west silo
#

Wait a minute why did Miranda go for the index by herself again!!!!

cedar surge
#

I thought Marty only did the music

gilded mason
#

He was part of Halo 3's writing group

round comet
#

I thought Marty only did the music

marty played a pivotal role for the story.

#

for some reason.

west silo
#

Poor In Amber Clad. Awesome ship name and music associated with it.
@gilded mason
Ha I bet it was feeling lucky

terse lava
#

here's a fun question, what if the Covenant had found Genesis?

cedar surge
#

@gilded mason eh,there are hundreds of other unsc frigates

gilded mason
#

Only one IAC, though. πŸ˜₯

#

"Frickin' sweet."

terse lava
#

we still have the Shadow of Intent Ostral πŸ™‚

gilded mason
#

Yes, indeed

terse lava
#

it's better

cedar surge
#

Hey ostral didn't you know about the IAC 2?

terse lava
#

we don't need any blocky ship

gilded mason
#

...lol

#

Ado, don't say things ya can't take back!

#

IAC is...bae

terse lava
#

Truth&Rec is Babe though

gilded mason
#

More like Parks&Rec, amiright?

west silo
#

Man the Marathons are great ship designs but Jesus the window is just one big shoot me sign

terse lava
#

Park&Wreck works too

gilded mason
#

lol

#

I'd watch it

cedar surge
#

Spirit of fire

terse lava
#

"We can rebuild this cruiser, make it better then before"

cedar surge
#

The SoF could stomp the IAC

terse lava
#

HC could stomp everything

cedar surge
#

Spartan team with nova bomb stomps harder

terse lava
#

tell that to Reach

cedar surge
#

Wish we knew more Phoenix class support ships

#

They have a cool design

#

And purpose

terse lava
#

Wish we knew more on those ships from Broken Circle

#

or better, got them in FleetBattles

west silo
#

The ones on the cover?

terse lava
#

or h5

#

yes

west silo
#

That people thought were frigates

terse lava
#

I...don't recall anyone thinking that

west silo
#

They kinda did match the description a little

terse lava
#

those ships on the cover though are 3400 years old

cedar surge
#

So what

#

The elites are now using pre covejsjt designs

terse lava
#

none of which match those vessels

versed helm
#

so, how would they get 3400 year old ships?

#

assuming they still work

west silo
#

Some of the ships in halo 5 are elites ships from before they made the covenant and there functioning pretty well

candid laurel
#

Do universal translators exist in halo

#

Im just trying to find out how elites learn to speak english with them having no lips and all

gilded mason
#

Determination

feral stirrup
#

πŸ‘

candid laurel
#

Why dont the unsc capture grunts

#

I feel the unsc could benefit from having grunts around

terse lava
#

they have plenty of times

#

both Halo Wars and Halo: The Flood showed it

cedar surge
#

What benefit do grunts give

#

You look away for a second and they steal your food nipple

versed helm
#

they're kamikaze units

cedar surge
#

Ah yes

#

The most important advantage

#

Scuicidal soldiers

#

Also the sidekick is massive in chiefs hands

#

So imagine how big it would be for a normal person

versed helm
#

Yea

cedar surge
#

Also I think the new guns still have the siding issue

versed helm
#

we shall see, i guess

#

Yea

lethal comet
#

Grunts are used as slave labor whenever they are captured

versed helm
#

Yea

lethal comet
#

Grunts always get the short end of the stick dont they

versed helm
#

its not like they can reach the long end

candid laurel
#

Grunts are just so adorable

#

They're so childlike

lethal comet
#

@versed helm tell that to yapyap

strong sage
#

Can anyone explain why or whats witthe usage of depleted uranium rounds for heavy weapons in the UNSC Arsenal. Was it because of the sharpness of the metal or something? Im really blanked when it comes into those

lethal comet
#

They weigh a lot

#

And they cant really be used much elsewhere

candid laurel
#

really dense material

versed helm
#

Yea

versed helm
#

where was blue team during halo 5?

round comet
#

they were in halo 5 with chief.

versed helm
#

thanks

#

why is it called halo 3 odst and not 1

#

where are the other 2 odst games

round comet
#

ODST is more of a standalone spinoff for halo 3, its not an entire series of games on its own.

versed helm
#

thanks

#

so why where there h3 versions of the weapons of the game

#

and not 2

round comet
#

because bungie wanted it to be that way and because like said, spinoff.

versed helm
#

why didnt they make graphics look like 2

#

thanks

round comet
#

because the graphics would be expected to be better on a new console

versed helm
#

why dos odst look so different from 2

#

thanks

#

why are the pods smalller

#

how tf is there a dayn night cycle on a ring?!!!!!

carmine sleet
#

ODST looks different to Halo 2 because the graphics are better. Plus, they wanted to go for a neo noir style for the night time, hence all the neon signs and lights

#

how tf is there a dayn night cycle on a ring?!!!!!
Halos are rotating and are normally in orbit around a planet that orbits a star

versed helm
#

what

#

but how is there a nighttime tho

#

the sun just vanishes im confused

carmine sleet
#

in orbit around a planet that orbits a star
An object orbiting around a sun has two sides, one light, one dark, for example, Earth, one side of the planet is in day time, the other, night. Add on the moon, Luna, which is orbiting Earth right now and there's always going to be a side that sees the sun while the other side doesn't

#

The same is true for the Halos and the planets they orbit

versed helm
#

what

#

but its a circle

#

if one side has day its still gonna shine through the whole ring

#

idk

#

πŸ’ 🌞

#

i dont get it

#

r u saying like when it orbits and the ring is like facing the sum like

#

πŸ’

#

thats how theres a night?

#

theres supposed to be a sun under the ring

#

warden just doesnt like me

#

but how would there be a day

#

and a night at same time

carmine sleet
#

You do understand the basic day/night cycle, right?

versed helm
#

yes

carmine sleet
#

Ok, now apply that to a Halo

versed helm
#

is the halo ring that big for the sunlight to only get hlf

lethal comet
#

Odst used the same engine as 3

carmine sleet
#

is the halo ring that big for the sunlight to only get hlf
Half the ring will be facing away and not get direct light from a star

#

Size isn't important

round comet
#

is the halo ring that big for the sunlight to only get hlf

you know how the earth has a day-night cycle? same thing here.

#

well, almost the same.

carmine sleet
#

And yes, a Halo is a ring world opposed to a spherical world but the basic idea is the same

round comet
#

it'll be interesting to see if we actually experience the cycle as opposed to how it was in CE

versed helm
#

i guess im just too smooth brain to understand

#

i think i get it now actually

#

πŸ’ 🌞

round comet
#

great.

versed helm
#

only the left side would get it?

#

then it flips through the day?

#

yes?

round comet
#

halos orbit a planet or sun like any other planetary body.

#

but yes.

#

id honesty prefer if it were like in ringworld.

versed helm
#

so if u were to look up would you see sunlight

#

from the other side of ring

#

πŸ‘€

round comet
#

like slip said, its the same principal.

versed helm
#

im not wrinkle brain

#

😳 πŸ‘€

round comet
#

id honesty prefer if it were like in ringworld.

in ringworld its like, a Dyson sphere would completely encapsulate a star and the ringworld would be like a hula hoop around the star.
so there is no natural night cycle, since the sun is always directly overhead regardless of where or which side you are on. so the engineers placed a series of these large metallic square things which orbited the sun directly overhead of the ring.
That way they'd get artificial day/night cycles, but theres no setting sun, just a shadow getting closer and closer, and then instantly night as one of the squares passes directly overhead.

versed helm
#

thats wrong

#

if rings are in the sun how is it alive

#

yeahh

#

i got you there

#

😎

round comet
#

ringworlds are not in the sun.

versed helm
#

where does it say that

#

where is it then a blackhole??!

round comet
#

..what

versed helm
#

well tell me

#

?

#

why isnt cheif on all the rings

round comet
#

the ringworld would be like a hula hoop around the star.

versed helm
#

that doesnt even make sence

#

if that were true how is the ring not destoryed

round comet
#

it does really.

#

because of the dyson sphere.

versed helm
#

ok then where are the primordials huh?

round comet
#

the "primordial" wont be on a ringworld, its a different universe.

versed helm
#

no its not

#

thats not what it said in halo warfleet

round comet
#

the ringworlds are the inspiration for the halo rings.

versed helm
#

bruh

round comet
#

its a book, read it.

versed helm
#

i have read all the books

round comet
#

ringworld by Larry Niven

versed helm
#

its even said in contact harvest

round comet
#

i have read all the books

and this, is not a halo book.

versed helm
#

oh yeah?

round comet
#

yes, google it.

versed helm
#

then how is mastercheif and al lthe animals dont float off

#

so they have to be in a sun

round comet
#

...what

versed helm
#

think about it

round comet
#

i think youre a bit confused, what exactly do you think i was talking about?

versed helm
#

the ring

round comet
#

what ring?

versed helm
#

any of them

round comet
#

i was not taking about a halo ring.

versed helm
#

ohhhhhh

#

ur talking bout ringworld?

round comet
#

i was talking about the novel, ringworld which happens to be the source of inspiration for halo rings.

#

yes, i explicitly stated that multiple times.

versed helm
#

No

round comet
versed helm
#

I literally told you im talking about both ring worlds and rings

#

Smh

round comet
#

which is weird because unlike ringworlds, halo rings dont have a dyson sphere for energy/light.

versed helm
#

Yes they do

#

Its said in contact harvest

round comet
#

no, halo rings orbit a planet or sun like any other planetary body

versed helm
#

No its in a sun

#

Did u not read contact harvest

#

Smh

carmine sleet
#

Contact Harvest isn't set on a Halo ring

round comet
#

what slip said

versed helm
#

Ohhhhhh

#

Im so dumb

#

I meant the one with Johnson's

#

My. Bad

round comet
#

uhuh.

versed helm
#

Which book is that the story was fire

round comet
#

the story was..fire?

versed helm
#

Prob re read it

#

With Johnson on harvest

round comet
#

yes, that is contact harvest.

versed helm
#

U didn't like the story?

#

I thought it was fire

round comet
#

contact harvest is a great book.

versed helm
#

Where was. Joe in ce

#

Why wasnt he in halo 4 either

round comet
#

joe staten?

versed helm
#

No

#

I get why he wasn't in 5 and. 3

#

But during ce where was Joe?!

round comet
#

i dont know what joe you are talking about.

versed helm
#

The one from reaach and 2 and odst

#

Where was joe!!

#

I need to know

#

Where was joe

round comet
#

could you specify who this joe is?

lethal comet
#

Probably staten

versed helm
#

You dont remember in reach

#

Where is joe

#

😑

round comet
#

i asked him if its staten and the guy's like "No", taham.

lethal comet
#

Joe mama

versed helm
#

Where is joe

round comet
#

in reach...jorge?

versed helm
#

No

lethal comet
#

Are you trolling us dude

round comet
#

probably.

versed helm
#

Im not

#

Never mind

#

Ill just replay the games lateer

#

Why arnt the rings in halo reach?

main siren
#

....

ripe nebula
versed helm
#

Wheres is warden eternal also

main siren
#

Because Halo Reach focused on the planet Reach?

round comet
#

Why arnt the rings in halo reach?

halo reach was about the fall of planet reach.

versed helm
#

No not solved

ripe nebula
#

No not solved
@versed helm F

versed helm
#

Another unsolved mystery ii guess

ripe nebula
#

alright start chipping in we'll get the answer or something

versed helm
#

What

ripe nebula
#

bribe the head honcho into spilling the facts

versed helm
#

No

ripe nebula
#

idk you got a better idea

versed helm
#

Ye ess

ripe nebula
#

bet

versed helm
#

Solve it like a man would use use science

#

Duh

#

This discord i swearπŸ‘Ž

#

Why didnt master cheif have mk 6 in ce

ripe nebula
#

Solve it like a man would use use science
@versed helm there are people still trying to solve it but to no avail

versed helm
#

Ok and?

ripe nebula
#

Why didnt master cheif have mk 6 in ce
@versed helm probably still in development at the time

versed helm
#

It was in reach

carmine sleet
#

Why didnt master cheif have mk 6 in ce
Mark VI wasn't finished yet

ripe nebula
#

Ok and?
@versed helm no progress in a long time

versed helm
#

If master cheifs armour is sooooo expensive where was the armour abilities

ripe nebula
#

uhhh

versed helm
#

I havnt played halo in years 😭

ripe nebula
#

rip

lethal comet
#

In my head canon armor abilities are prototypes of covenant armor modules but all of them were destroyed during fall of reach

ripe nebula
#

^

versed helm
#

Then why was it in ce?

lethal comet
#

It wasn't

round comet
#

In my head canon armor abilities are prototypes of covenant armor modules but all of them were destroyed during fall of reach

there's a good reason why thats just head canon.

versed helm
#

Prove it

lethal comet
#

Noble team got mjolnir stuff before s-IIs

#

Would make sense that they got prototypes first

versed helm
#

No

lethal comet
#

Mjolnir MkV i meant

round comet
#

Prove it

we know that what taham said isnt official and is just head canon.

#

i dont need to prove anything.

lethal comet
#

Some things are best left unaddressed

versed helm
#

Wrong

lethal comet
#

Not everything needs to have a canon explanation

round comet
#

Noble team got mjolnir stuff before s-IIs

Would make sense that they got prototypes first

makes sense i guess, but i still dont see them having the armor abilities they did in 5.

lethal comet
#

Maybe they improved upon the abilities for gen 2

versed helm
#

Science says otherwise

round comet
#

...what?

#

Maybe they improved upon the abilities for gen 2

ehh idk man

lethal comet
#

Lets just imagine armor abilities didnt exist in reach @round comet

versed helm
#

Omfg

#

I meant spartan abilities lol

round comet
#

im talking particularly about the ones in halo 5

lethal comet
#

You are starting to feel more and more like a troll @versed helm

round comet
#

yep.

versed helm
#

Ill just do my own research i guess

round comet
#

hmm?

#

wait oh ok good luck

versed helm
#

Im super close to 100%mastercehif collection

#

On pc

round comet
#

nice.

lethal comet
#

nice

#

Cant wait to play h4 on pc

versed helm
#

Ew

round comet
#

halo 4 on PC will be dope

versed helm
#

Gross

round comet
#

and i imagine it would be an easier game for 343 to port

lethal comet
#

Finally high resolution ma dude

round comet
#

because 1) it doesnt have spaghetti code, 2) they made the game

lethal comet
#

which could mean less porting bugs

round comet
#

yeah.

versed helm
#

Last time i played halo 4 all my friends said it sucked and left

round comet
#

oh the multiplayer is by no means "good"

versed helm
#

I mean i liked the story

#

Thats it

round comet
#

its pretty ok even if you get over the fact that it has killstreaks and stuff.

versed helm
#

The speedrun is cool

round comet
#

the narrative is the best in the series.

#

: )

versed helm
#

I liked 2 better

#

And then 4

round comet
#

which is fair.

versed helm
#

Then spartan strike

#

Then 3

round comet
#

right.

versed helm
#

Then reach

#

Assault then ce and odst

round comet
#

πŸ‘

versed helm
#

Nah im kidding

#

Assualt and strike are. Booty

round comet
#

you arent allowed to say stuff like that.

versed helm
#

Im not?

round comet
#

nope.

versed helm
#

Sorry to hurt fealings i edited it

lethal comet
#

It has the best terminals as well

round comet
#

indeed.

lethal comet
#

And humanizes chief

#

Bungo showed him as an invincible killing machine

versed helm
#

I didnt really like that but also i did

#

Idk

#

He talked too much

lethal comet
#

But they shouldnt have changed forward unto dawns design

versed helm
#

Nope

round comet
#

i dont see why halo fans dont like the main character of a narrative being an actual character, lol.

lethal comet
#

Yeah

#

Bungo chief was an empty shell with cool one liners

round comet
#

i mean even in the OG trilogy he did talk during cutscenes and had that subtle personality but...it wasnt enough.

versed helm
#

Pull up pull up

#

You dod that on purpose didnt you

round comet
#

stop using that emote.

versed helm
#

Yes sir

lethal comet
versed helm
lethal comet
#

Frank's best image is as Hamish Beamish

versed helm
#

😳

#

Yes

round comet
#

yeah lol.

versed helm
#

So whats ur fav halo book

#

Im reading primordium right now

lethal comet
#

Imma say thursday war

versed helm
#

Nice

lethal comet
#

Most people disagree with me tho

round comet
#

mine is either cryptum or silentium.

versed helm
#

Yeah silentelium pretty cool

lethal comet
#

Nice you didnt even acknowledge primordium

round comet
#

my tierlist

#

nah i love the whole forerunner saga.

lethal comet
#

Why do people hate on kilo five triology so much

versed helm
#

Cause cheif isnt even in it

#

Duh

round comet
#

the precursor-forerunner era is my main area of interest in the halo universe so yeah.

lethal comet
#

Chief isnt in a lot of books

round comet
#

Why do people hate on kilo five triology so much

At its core is a good story to explore, but the perspective to do so is far too narrow.

lethal comet
#

I loved the Jul M'dama segments

versed helm
#

Ok and?

lethal comet
#

They make you sympathize with him

round comet
#

Jul M'dama is like the shining jewel of the Kilo Five trilogy.

lethal comet
#

And thursday war did a great job of teasing h4

versed helm
#

Mmm

#

Not good is cheif in it

round comet
#

If it were just Mortal Dictata, where Karen was clearly telling the story she wanted to tell without and tie-in caveats, I'd be more positively inclined towards it.

versed helm
#

Hmmm no

lethal comet
#

And @versed helm some of the best halo books dont feature chief

round comet
#

most dont.

versed helm
#

Like what?

lethal comet
#

Broken circle

#

forerunner triology

versed helm
#

No

#

Prinordium is fire so far ngl

lethal comet
#

Broken circle is a frickin master piece

versed helm
#

No

carmine sleet
#

Chief is not required to tell a good Halo story

versed helm
#

I know

carmine sleet
#

So why are you saying Broken Circle is bad because Chief isn't in it?

versed helm
#

Halo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legendsHalo legends

lethal comet
#

The world doesnt revolve around chief

carmine sleet
#

Most of Halo Legends is focused on characters other than Chief

lethal comet
#

Chief only appears in two of them

versed helm
#

Yea it was great

#

1337

#

Coolio

#

Cheif the best

round comet
#

cryptum, primordium, silentium, broken circle, renegades, shadows of intent, ghosts of onyx

#

just to name a few.

versed helm
#

Yea

round comet
#

(those are actually my top 7 lol)

versed helm
#

No there not

round comet
#

(wait actually move primordium down to third)

lethal comet
#

When are we gonna actually talk about lore

round comet
#

good question

#

uh yes

versed helm
#

Yes

cedar surge
#

So shield worlds have suns inside of them

#

Does that mean that they have shielding inside to stop the sun from burning everything?

versed helm
#

No

#

Rings do

#

Thats how they blew up in ce

carmine sleet
#

The ring in CE was blown up by Chief detonating the Autumn's engines

lethal comet
#

I don't think the artificial suns are actual 'stars'

round comet
#

@cedar surge dyson spheres.

lethal comet
#

I think he meant worlds like etran harbourage @round comet

#

The dyson sphere stars are already one astronomical unit away from the surface

versed helm
#

No

#

Your opinion is wrong

carmine sleet
#

Whose opinion? Because Dyson Spheres, such as Onyx, are massive on the inside so that allows for a star to exist on the inside

inner basin
#

@versed helm Are you good bud?

#

If you’re here to troll this isn’t really the place to do it

round comet
#

Because Dyson Spheres, such as Onyx, are massive on the inside so that allows for a star to exist on the inside

this.

humble yacht
#

Requiem’s sun was a fake sun

cedar surge
#

What about the one in halo wars?

#

Wellbthe spirit of fire was like near inside the star at one point

#

O I guess its fake too

#

Actually where did forge go with the bomb?

round comet
#

in halo wars also we had a type of micro dyson sphere

lethal comet
#

Not really a dyson sphere

round comet
#

and it was an artificial sun

lethal comet
#

Kind of like the sun on the ark

round comet
#

Not really a dyson sphere

it was a dyson sphere

humble yacht
#

Iirc etran harborage did not have a slipspace event inside leading to another system like onyx did

lethal comet
#

I slashed that

humble yacht
#

It was just a hollow planet with stuff inside

#

Like requiem

inner basin
#

I was about to say the same thing

#

Like they went into this sorta Forerunner tunnel that was under the β€œplanet’s” surface

#

Whereas Requiem’s initial surface is just all metallic but where the gravity well is, was the entrance to it

#

They’re kinda similar but also kinda different in how they have different layers and how to access them

humble yacht
#

Maybe requiem had different security measures since it was a military installation

lethal comet
#

Etran harbourage was like a ship storage, requiem was promethean hq

inner basin
#

Promethean HQ πŸ˜‚

lethal comet
#

Cant find a better word for that

versed helm
#

My bad

lethal comet
#

@versed helm You need some sleep my man

humble yacht
#

You think spartan IIs ever took organic chem?

carmine sleet
#

Maybe one of the washouts that wasn't later brought into active duty?

humble yacht
#

I mean, what’s the highest level education equivalent spartan IIs reached?

#

Did they get the equivalent of a high school education? College?

cedar surge
#

Why is the G79H pelican called a mobile armory

carmine sleet
#

Well, we know that they were taught at least some history, given that we've seen Deja teaching them about various historical battles

#

Why is the G79H pelican called a mobile armory
Guns. Lots of guns

#

Like, that thing had weapon compartments on the side that you could use in Shutdown (Not that I use them these days given that most the level can be skipped completely)

lethal comet
#

They probably have the equivalent of a college graduate

cedar surge
#

Why

#

They don't even get a seat belt

#

And don't get any protection

#

Who designed this

candid laurel
#

A lot of halo vehicles are poorly designed

#

A scorpion tank would be a sitting duck in a modern battlefield for example

cedar surge
#

How

#

Also which scorpion

candid laurel
#

Too high of a profile and crew of only one

#

Not to mention having a rather weak 90 mm main cannon

cedar surge
#

What about the grizzly

candid laurel
#

Thats even worse of a design

#

Two main guns is horribly impractical

#

Not to mention all the other problems that comes with the scorpion

carmine sleet
#

Most of the time, designs are following the rule of cool opposed to anything actually practical

cedar surge
#

Mammoth stomps tho

#

Mac gun and turrets

#

Plus it could just run you over

#

Mobile command center

candid laurel
#

They should fit the scorpions with gauss guns

cedar surge
#

Thery have

#

They already did it with the Hannibal variants

#

I hope the Hannibal variants become the main versions someday

#

Because they are better

obsidian thistle
#

Ah I love it

#

The XM820B4. Such a long technical name

candid laurel
#

Its nice but i like the classic design of the old scorpion

obsidian thistle
#

Makes me smile

carmine sleet
#

Ok, but the Hannibal Mantis though. That thing is a work of art

obsidian thistle
#

Theres lots of chassis for the M808 xD I seriously dont know what one I prefer

lethal comet
#

Have you guys seen how marines sit on the jump seat on the hornet

unique rune
#

I think the Wars 2's M808S is probably my favorite variant of the 808 family.

Though I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see the 808B2 Sun Devil in one of the FPS games at some point.

cedar surge
#

I hope 343 actually does something with t hem like putting them into production and not leave them in development hell

#

Or worse

lethal comet
#

They can sit on it without seat belts while it is going at like 50 kmph and ignoring the recoil of firing a sniper or rocket launcher

cedar surge
#

Forget they exist

#

Well I don't think the scorpion was made to sit 4 marines

lethal comet
#

They dont even keep a hand on the hornet

#

Their butt grip keeps them from falling

cedar surge
#

Nah

#

They just have magnets on their backside

lethal comet
#

Magnets so strong that they can handle recoil from the fuel rod

#

And the acceleration of the hornet

cedar surge
#

Gotta say

#

The rhino is my least favorite unsc ground vehicle

#

Its a scorpion body with extra tracks

#

Also why does the mantis get shielding but the tanks can't?

lethal comet
#

Agree

#

Also why does the mantis get shielding but the tanks can't?
Less area to cover

#

And you cant shield the tank tracks

cedar surge
#

Why not?

#

The mantis also has moving shielded parts

lethal comet
#

And also the greatest reason

#

Game balance

cedar surge
#

what is this thing

#

i could find this in space engineers

lethal comet
#

Don't trust toys

#

This may exist tho

cedar surge
#

with what oni has done in universe

#

i wouldnt be suprise

lethal comet
#

Section 3 isnt limited to spartans

#

Section 3 is very big

unique rune
#

I’m only now realizing that thing is basically just a Falcon cockpit on legs.

lethal comet
#

A shade turret that can be deployed from orbit

cedar surge
#

The concept art looked better

#

It was a mobile turret in the concept

lethal comet
#

Doesnt look practical

cedar surge
#

When do you guys think the elite brute war will end

lethal comet
#

It has mostly

cedar surge
#

I'm interested in seeing that war

lethal comet
#

Just minor skirmishes here and there

#

Elites and brutes mainly fought over what remained of the covenant and basic resources

cedar surge
#

So the dust was settling before the created came and shot everyone in the back

nimble crest
#

Was emiles kukri issued or did he get it himself

carmine sleet
#

Unknown

cedar surge
#

Unsc biological weapons?

nimble crest
#

Thinking not

#

Probably don’t know enough about the covenant biology to make a weapon targeted for biological weapons

humble yacht
#

ONI tried but it didn’t pan out

nimble crest
#

Here’s a question, if Jun didn’t go with Halsey, how would he have died? Anybody have a alternate universe prediction?

sharp adder
#

Stabbed by his own knfiexwhebn falling from a high place

carmine sleet
#

He lays in position waiting for the perfect shot for too long and dies of natural causes

lethal comet
#

He 'dissapears' never to be seen again

#

Or dies to a h2 jackal sniper

nimble crest
#

He hides in a cave and chokes to death on is ghillie bib

terse lava
#

Ends up in an eternal game of cat and mouse with a H2 kig-yar sniper

cedar surge
#

jun vs linda vs H2 jackal sniper in a sniper battle

carmine sleet
#

Linda, easy

lethal comet
#

Yeah Linda will win

nimble crest
#

It’ll be a close battle if anything

versed helm
#

close for jun and the kig yaar

#

linda will already be chillin after acing it

cedar surge
#

Thought jun said he was the best sniper

#

Also I wonder he retired right

feral perch
#

Linda is by far a better sniper than Jun

cedar surge
#

Wonder if he will put on his armor again to fight the banished

#

I cant see jun in the new armor

feral perch
#

I really doubt that

#

He’s not stationed on the Infinity

lethal comet
#

And he has ptsd

#

wait no

#

Fistful of arrows isnt canon

unique rune
#

Wonder if he will put on his armor again to fight the banished
I cant see jun in the new armor
I mean. It's heavily implied that the VIGILIANT-class armor was designed at his request, and it's pretty much a straightforward upgrade of his custom Scout armor to GEN2 standards, so... he'd basically be going into combat in new armor, if the need arises.

versed helm
#

Yea

#

Linda june team up

inner basin
#

Why do people still spell Jun like June. I don’t understand

#

It’s in the game. There is not really any excuse

humble yacht
#

Sometimes autocorrect adds the E and people are too lazy to correct or don’t notice

inner basin
#

Hmm. I guess that’s fair. Doesn’t happen to me that often but that’s probably because my keyboard has gotten used to me typing Jun so much

nimble crest
#

If Jun wears new armor or old it has to have ghillie from concept

cedar surge
#

of course

#

a grunt started te first skirmish in the hcw

nimble crest
#

Hm?

main siren
#

Basically, a Grunt lost its nerves and shot at some humans in Harvest which Kickstarted the HCW

versed helm
#

June should have similar armour

cedar surge
#

hey distant tide

#

i found a lawless system

versed helm
#

June is da best

cedar surge
#

but there is not a lot of lore

versed helm
#

June is da coolest

#

Joe is the coolest

fair hazel
#

Jun gets autocorrected to other things like Jim and June and. Jin and Him and jun.

versed helm
#

Jun

#

June

#

😎

cedar surge
#

I don't know why but a spartan called jim is funny

versed helm
#

June jim and joe

#

Make jim a thing 343

cedar surge
#

also its called the hydra system

versed helm
#

Joe for halo infinite

#

343 make it happen

#

!

inner basin
#

Nah

versed helm
#

What!

#

Explain?

fair hazel
#

Explain what?

inner basin
#

Why I don’t want Joe in Halo Infinite. I mean it is self explanatory just by typing this out

cedar surge
#

so the grunt that stared the HCW

#

where did he go

versed helm
#

I get that most people dont like him but cmon hes funny

cedar surge
#

who is joe

versed helm
#

Joe mama!πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ˜‚

#

You read the books

#

Hes in a couple of em

#

Hes pretty infamous

fair hazel
#

No memes?

#

I don’t know.

#

@versed helm let’s not get weird.

inner basin
#

I don’t think there’s a Joe in a couple of the books

versed helm
#

I think there is

inner basin
#

Do you mind telling us which ones?

versed helm
#

Im a halo pro

#

Id have to go look some up

#

Hes in 3 books

inner basin
#

What a coincidence. You have to look them up

versed helm
#

Nah

#

😎 im too cool for yhat

inner basin
#

If you’re so confident he’s in the books, then you should know if the tip of your head which ones

fair hazel
#

Let’s stop the , trolling now, or whatever it is @versed helm

versed helm
#

Im not

inner basin
#

Then answer my question

versed helm
#

No i dont have time

#

😎

inner basin
#

I wanted to see how long I could drag this out, but you’re bailing when I call you out on it

fair hazel
#

Enough.

unique rune
#

so the grunt that stared the HCW
where did he go
He died.
Somewhere on Harvest.

versed helm
#

Well i havnt read the books in a whilee

fair hazel
#

Don’t bypass word filter.

versed helm
#

Frik

fair hazel
#

But the first covenant species member to have killed a human was a huragok ironically enough

versed helm
#

πŸ‘Š bamm just punched you watcha gonna do about it

#

Im done

cedar surge
#

wait what

#

how did a engineer killa human

#

shouldnt it have been a grunt or jackal?

fair hazel
#

He took a, was it fire extinguisher? No that’s the captain

#

He had like a type of rock was it? Then flung it at the captain that attacked the poor brave grunt.

versed helm
#

He flung a rock the grunt had taight him game

#

They dont like.violence but his grunt friend was getting beat

cedar surge
#

oh

#

so the first death in the whole war

versed helm
#

I believe so

cedar surge
#

was to a rock

versed helm
#

Avery and other guy killed them later tho

#

Its in contact harvest

#

😳

haughty swift
#

August 30, 2552
The Covenant, despite suffering heavy losses, win one with a landslide victory at the Fall of Reach. Many of the remaining SPARTAN-IIs are killed. Billions of lives are lost in the largest genocide in human history

fair hazel
#

Yesterday was the fall of reach day

versed helm
#

No

#

Thats in like 500 years

#

Get yo facts straight

#

Little boi

cedar surge
#

happy... anniversery?

fair hazel
#

πŸ₯³

versed helm
#

😭

inner basin
#

5 centuries and 32 year early anniversary

versed helm
#

Nope

unique rune
#

celebrating the -532nd anniversary of the Fall of Reach

versed helm
#

Do people live on reach

#

After the fall

#

Tell me now!

#

😑

obsidian thistle
#

Yes its eventually recolonized

cedar surge
#

fall of veniza when

obsidian thistle
#

By the 2600s New Alexandria is rebuilt

inner basin
#

Yeah. It happens a lot later than where the current timeline is

versed helm
#

How come some brutes are hairy some arnt

cedar surge
#

like in 40 years

fair hazel
#

Because they shave

cedar surge
#

well brutes do come all over from a planet

versed helm
#

Why tho

#

Any resons why

feral perch
#

why don’t all humans look the same?

versed helm
#

I guess

feral perch
#

Different clan practices are a major reason

#

for why Brutes look different

versed helm
#

Reach brutes πŸ’©

#

H2πŸ‘

inner basin
#

What about H3/ODST Brutes?

versed helm
#

They have suits so you cant tell

#

Except for the head

inner basin
#

You can shoot their helmets off

versed helm
#

And toes

inner basin
#

What about HW2 Brutes then?

versed helm
#

But they prob look shaved without it

#

I dont really like en

#

But i do like there role

#

Design is alright with me

#

They look buff and tough

feral perch
#

The Reach Brutes are thicker and tougher looking than Halo 3 Brutes

fair hazel
#

They look malnourished

versed helm
#

But there bald so i dont like em

#

There head does look like they could eat more

feral perch
#

I really disagree

#

It’s just genetics

versed helm
#

Youu csn see like every bome in the face

feral perch
#

Nah

versed helm
#

Is it explained how atriox got his hammer

#

Like a book or cutscene

feral perch
#

He made it using parts from the Executioner’s energy sword. It’s a mace btw, not a hammer

versed helm
#

Is mace not a type of hammer?

feral perch
#

Not as far as I know.

humble yacht
#

they're both blunt weapons but they are different

versed helm
#

Yea

humble yacht
#

maces don't have a "face" and can be swung in any direction

#

hammers need to be swung in a particular way to be most effective

versed helm
#

Depends on the hammer

#

But ye

cedar surge
#

so the unsc knew about the banishedd during the war right?

humble yacht
#

He made it using parts from the Executioner’s energy sword. It’s a mace btw, not a hammer
Can't find any sources saying that

#

all it says is he made it out of a gravity hammer

feral perch
#

It has red blades and he took the red-bladed energy sword from the Executioner

versed helm
#

I think i saw that somewhere too

cedar surge
#

thats not a lot of evidence

feral perch
#

I didn’t say he made Chainbreaker entirely from the sword.

#

But it’s clear he used parts of it.

humble yacht
#

i'm just saying there is no source saying he specifically used the executioner blade in its construction

feral perch
#

It’s a pretty obvious deduction

cedar surge
#

did the arbiter take tarturus hammer after killing him?

versed helm
#

I dont play halo wars but i think i remember somthin like that

humble yacht
#

did the arbiter take tarturus hammer after killing him?
probably not

feral perch
#

Nobody knows what happened to the Fist of Rukt

cedar surge
#

well aint it the first hammer

feral perch
#

No

#

I don’t think it was...

humble yacht
#

Fist of Rukt was the symbol for the Chieftain for all Brutes

#

passed down from leader to leader

#

(or taken by force)

versed helm
#

Contact harvest showed that

#

He got from his uncle

#

😎

fair hazel
#

That’s speculation. Not a confirmed canon stone bric

feral perch
#

It’s so obvious

cedar surge
#

not really

feral perch
#

Yes really

versed helm
#

Wrinkly brain

cedar surge
#

there is a entire group of elites who also use red swords

feral perch
#

That’s irrelevant

cedar surge
#

yes it is relevant

#

just because the blade is red does not mean its the exacutioners blade

feral perch
#

Atriox literally took the red energy sword of his Executioner and was later seen with red-bladed Chainbreaker.

cedar surge
#

It has red blades and he took the red-bladed energy sword from the Executioner
@feral perch

feral perch
#

He didn’t encounter the Silent Shadow until after he made Chainbreaker.

versed helm
cedar surge
#

still im hoping that infinite that there will be HW2 banished unit and not just more covenant rank units

versed helm
#

Yea

#

Im tired of fighting elites

cedar surge
#

well...

versed helm
#

We beat the covenant twice

cedar surge
#

the banished have elites and brutes

versed helm
#

I know

cedar surge
#

with the brutes in the lead

versed helm
#

πŸ˜”

cedar surge
#

but yea

#

prometheans were a attempt to get out of the covenants shadow

#

which did not go well

carmine sleet
#

Not all Elites are going to agree, they aren't a hivemind, some Elites are still going to want to fight against humanity

versed helm
#

Ye

cedar surge
#

no other faction can shape up to the amount of depth the cvenant have

versed helm
#

Are there any flat planets in halo

cedar surge
#

i tink a forerunner structure

versed helm
cedar surge
#

i hope we will see the inside of a firebase in infinite

versed helm
#

Nah

#

Hopedully id be cool

#

I hope ai in forge

#

Custom games would be sick

#

I hope grunts will be free

#

Story wose

#

I still wanna foght them

cedar surge
#

grunts are already free

#

the whole race aint enslaved

#

they are apart of every major faction

#

the unsc made a embassy to interact with them

versed helm
#

Oh

feral perch
#

The Unggoy have been subjugated by Cortana, and they’ve been pressed into service by the Banished. They’re not, as a people, free.

versed helm
#

Grunts always being pressed into stuff

cedar surge
#

so cortana is just enslaving everyone

versed helm
#

Yeah

fair hazel
#

I’m pretty sure the relationship between the unggoy and the created is better than that...

cedar surge
#

yea i think for some reason the created gave them supplies

humble yacht
#

the grunts on Bahalo bowed to her, but not all of them

#

for instance the Grunts in the Banished did not

feral perch
#

They had a prior obligation they couldn’t forsake

#

even if they wanted to

cedar surge
#

the grnts are going to be working for everyone by the time halo is over

humble yacht
#

they already are, sort of

#

it's in their very name

cedar surge
#

they are going to steal your jobs

#

so what is the justice system in the UEG like?

humble yacht
#

probably not too dissimilar to modern justice systems in western culture

nimble crest
#

Who was the tallest spartan ?

humble yacht
#

i think kurt

feral perch
#

8’2”

stiff creek
#

I heard Douglas is considered tall compared to other II's as well.

feral perch
#

He’s 7’4”

cedar surge
#

does veniza have a defense fleet?

stiff creek
#

Probably a tiny one.

versed helm
#

and not that well organized

cedar surge
#

ripe for raiding then

feral perch
#

Probably not

cedar surge
#

why not?

#

the brutes were attacking the joint occupation zone

feral perch
#

They might not have a defense fleet but they’re not defenseless

cedar surge
#

ODPs?

feral perch
#

They don’t have those

#

But unless you have a massive fleet, you can’t just roll up and take whatever you want

#

Any faction with the power to do that isn’t going to be interested in raiding Venezia

#

There’s a big black market there and so there’s lots of dangerous things that can be used to defend the surface

versed helm
#

the people of venezia are very possessive

cedar surge
#

vicious thieves?

versed helm
#

kig yaar

#

and deserters

dense pulsar
#

Teen master chief vs random ODSTs

cedar surge
#

better get the biofoam ready

feral perch
#

There’s humans, Jackals, Brutes, and probably Grunts co-existing on Venezia.

cedar surge
#

why didnt jul attack then

dense pulsar
#

He killed one of them right?

cedar surge
#

he had forces large enough to threaten the SoS

#

actually where did jul get his fleets

versed helm
#

zealots on sanghelios

#

the warrior monk people

cedar surge
#

its not like you can hide a warship as big as those

gilded mason
#

And a a lot of them were from Hesduros

versed helm
#

they didnt hide them

#

they thought the ships didnt work

#

they had a junkyard which had those ships

carmine sleet
#

actually where did jul get his fleets
Through various means, such as black markets, shipyards and sometimes just straight up stealing stuff

cedar surge
#

why would yo not break the ships down

versed helm
#

just in case you need them

cedar surge
#

thats asking for thr ships to be yoinked

versed helm
#

which they did

carmine sleet
#

Heck, it's believed the Harvester seen in Halo 4 was acquired from a black market sale in Renegades, if it's meant to be the same Harvester anyway

versed helm
#

which led to jul's wife getting rekt

carmine sleet
#

why would yo not break the ships down
Breaking down ships takes time, you need to make sure nothing valuable is in them, such as fuel and other resources that could be salvaged, not to mention the aforementioned reason from Forthencho

cedar surge
#

i was not expecting that many known human colonies on halopedia

#

it must be around 200

stable flower
#

Are their demonyms for colonies? Like Harvest > Harvester? Reach > Reacher? Meridian > Meridianan?

versed helm
#

reach>reachling

#

meridian>meridianite

vague scroll
#

No, Reach residents are canonically known as "Reavians"

versed helm
#

reachling has a nice ring to it, tho

vague scroll
#

maybe, Reachers is tacky but in the same vein

versed helm
#

reavers

stiff creek
#

Earthling.

stable flower
#

Gao>Gaon

stiff creek
#

Gaoian.

#

Ian.

#

Just Ian.

cedar surge
#

Ringer

versed helm
#

eridanus>eridanusite

cedar surge
#

Outer colonies

#

Outa life

cedar surge
#

Could a grunt rip the arm off a elite?

humble yacht
#

no

echo nebula
#

No. I normal human? Yes, an Elite? Not a chance, even if it was unconscious. Think Yap Yap in the Halo book, The Flood. It took several of them to drag that Elite back to the drop ship.

versed helm
#

Well you say that but the strength of the Covenant's forces is varied.

dense pulsar
#

If Grunts were allowed to actually live long enough and be educated, what are the chances that some could learn advance military tactics in lieu of being officers?

#

iirc, Grunts are rather smart but the ones we see in games are basically child soldiers

versed helm
#

Stolt is an example of a very strong Unggoy, he even outranks some of the crew on Rtas' ship.

feral perch
#

He’s the leader of a group of Sangheili Rangers iirc

versed helm
#

Yes, he is.

feral perch
#

Grunts only live like 30 or so years though, I think

stable flower
#

So if there's a BR75, I wonder if there's a BR65.

versed helm
#

Most likely there was.

dense pulsar
#

Does anyone other than the Spartans actually like Halsey?

versed helm
#

Keyes did.

gilded mason
#

Hood also likes her. And I assume Mendez did outside of Kilo-5.

#

And according to Parangosky in GoO, she had a lot of admirers in either ONI or the UNSC brass in general.

cedar surge
#

well she did make weapons

#

human weapons

humble yacht
#

I have a suspicion that Johnson liked her

echo nebula
#

Between her intellect and those in higher up command positions, she would otherwise have been killed years ago

dense pulsar
#

Idk, it just seems like the media I've seen her in so far she's just catty

gilded mason
#

I guess we do usually see her in stressful situations

echo nebula
#

Woman spent very little time trying to be nice. On the plus side, you almost always knew where she stood

gilded mason
#

"Yes, ma'am."

"And for God's sake," she said, narrowing her eyes to slits, "Catherine Halsey must never know. Her bleeding-heart sympathies for the Spartans have won her too many admirers at CENTCOM.```
humble yacht
#

lol, her sympathy is because she robbed them of normal lives and turned them into living weapons

#

it's not even sympathy, it's more guilt

gilded mason
#

Yeah, she actually felt bad for the horror she put people through.

echo nebula
#

She spent more time with those children than her own daughter, they were her kids

gilded mason
#

Which, I guess, is alien to Parangosky. πŸ˜‹

humble yacht
#

She spent more time with those children than her own daughter, they were her kids
She only started acting motherly after a bunch died

#

it took there only being a handful left before she was like "you know, maybe they deserve to live"

echo nebula
#

Yea, but she tried to not see them as kids at first, didn't want to think what she was doing to them as a bad thing, obviously failed

gilded mason
#

Pretty sure she almost always thought that.

humble yacht
#

well she didn't act on it until Reach

gilded mason
#

Yeah.

echo nebula
#

She did insist they get the right training to ensure they survived

humble yacht
#

and actions are what matters

dense pulsar
#

Well, I guess its hard to see what you're going to lose until its too late

humble yacht
#

you don't know what you got, til its gone

gilded mason
#

And she would have made sure the augments wouldn't have killed anyone if it wasn't for ONI threatening to remove her from the project.

versed helm
#

Was she purposefully trying to distance herself from the Spartans during training?

#

In fear of attachment or something?

dense pulsar
#

So the deaths were really because ONI rushed things?

gilded mason
#

Yeah, they wanted to see returns faster than Halsey wanted.

dense pulsar
#

After the ORION project I can kinda see where they were coming from

echo nebula
#

I guarantee Halsey would have blown a gasket if she had known what enhancements the SIII Gamma squad had received

dense pulsar
#

They probably thought "We winged it with Johnson so maybe we can do it again but get him X10 stronger"

echo nebula
#

Johnson, and his group were limited by the technology and science of that era

dense pulsar
#

True true

echo nebula
#

Could you imagine Johnson as a Spartan? Would have made the MC look weak

versed helm
#

He is a Spartan, part of Project ORION.

humble yacht
#

if johnson had been made a S-II, he would have lacked all the best things about the character

versed helm
#

I could see him being a Spartan 4, if he lived to see that program anyway.

humble yacht
#

yeah. but inb4 "spartan 4's aren't real spartans"

#

pretty sure that person meant spartan 2s

#

a Spartan II johnson would not know what the ladies like

echo nebula
#

Much of what makes a spartan was not given to them, due to their advanced age, and mortal dictata

versed helm
#

Yeah, but the problem as you said earlier is that it would strip his humanity, wit and charm in the process.

#

If he became a Spartan 4, it would simply improve his abilities (and ego).

humble yacht
#

Not all spartan IVs get inflated egos

versed helm
#

You really don't think it would boost Johnsons' ego?

humble yacht
#

Well for the spartan IVs who had obnoxious egos, like Demarco, we don’t know his ego pre-augmentation

echo nebula
#

Johnson's ego was based on skill and qualifications, not the, "I'm better than you" kind of ego

humble yacht
#

Maybe he was always a d-bag

echo nebula
#

Johnson learned early on how old the MC was during his first few operations, and while he did look after him a bit, he also followed orders

#

If he was the POS ego type, he never would have done that

versed helm
#

How was Romeo in Bad Blood? Was he any different to how he behaved in New Blood?

unique rune
#

From what I remember... not a whole lot different?

echo nebula
#

Romeo's Romeo

unique rune
#

He was still pretty typical Romeo, though the whole Created situation at least got him to pipe down a bit.

echo nebula
#

He was more willing to risk his own skin to save others

cedar surge
#

johnson doesnt need a spartan suit

#

he got a prototype suit

#

entire armies of prototype suits would make the covenant shiver in their

#

shos i guess

#

the unsc uses a bunch of prototyes but barely any of them go into full production

vague scroll
#

Johnson in the Mark 1 isn't canon

#

that's just a Halo Wars 2 dlc that was designed around robots, fan service as it were

misty flame
#

So ODSTs and marines have their blood type on their person somewhere so if something happens they know what blood to give them. Do Spartans have something like that, or do they have to get something special.

#

Also do elites have pp

gilded mason
#

Yes.

misty flame
#

Thank you

#

And considering that their huge what would be the approximate size

gilded mason
#

Half an inch

misty flame
#

Fair

cedar surge
#

maybe the tags with bloodtype thing is just redudent

#

since they can read personel tags on their screens

#

so spartan armor has biofoam right

#

couldnt have it saved multiple spartans?

unique rune
#

MJOLNIR Mk VI and onward have integrated, automatic biofoam injectors.

#

I suppose it could technically be used for other Spartans if removed and piped over to their armor, but... their armor should already have its own biofoam injectors, so... would be pretty redundant.

cedar surge
#

then shouldnt have a couple of spartans lived due to the biofoam?

#

so what is the biofoam

humble yacht
#

What Spartans are you talking about?

unique rune
#

Biofoam is a temporary measure at best

#

It's not a magic cure-all substance as its gameplay effects might suggest

#

More like a combination of bandage, disinfectant, and painkiller

carmine sleet
#

Hey, so there's a new Canon Fodder article just released

unique rune
#

Ooh sweet

#

Huh. Sangheili with a prosthetic.
Interesting.

carmine sleet
#

I like him

boreal bane
unique rune
#

Oh neat, Hannaford is back on concept art.

#

The new Troy Denning-penned adventure officially drops on October 20, and for fans looking to squeeze a bit more lore out of their purchase, Wal-Mart outlets (online and in-store) will be stocking a limited edition version that include an additional short story entitled Sacrifice.
why must you do this to me

cedar surge
#

reading on the NMPD

#

they sound more like a private army

#

oh wait i thought canon fodder was ove

unique rune
#

Canon Fodder isn't over, it's just not a regular thing the way it used to be.

gilded mason
#

Robot arm and mandibles? I'm in love.

cedar surge
#

hey wait a sec

#

that arm kinda looks like kat's

gilded mason
#

LIQUID KAT

cedar surge
#

what if he just stole it off the corps

gilded mason
#

It has a Sangheili hand configuration, so probably not

cedar surge
#

but he looks cool

humble yacht
#

Of prosthetic mandibles were an option, why is rtas still walking around with half a mouth?