For Kelly, Linda, and Fred
CE: Linda was clinically dead in cryo on the Pillar of Autumn, rest stuck on Reach
2: Doing other missions around Earth
3: Stuck on Onyx
#lore-and-universe
gilded mason
ocean kite
Ah
Did many Spartans survive?
slim thorn
Less than 20
gilded mason
About...15 or so?
ocean kite
Oh right
slim thorn
For spartan II
For Spartan III also the same or probably worse
Jun retired from front lines and become number 2 (Chief of Staff) to accompany Spartan II Musa (head of Spartan Operations)
gilded mason
Any time
versed helm
Seems like Chief might be the last Spartan again lol
crisp zephyr
hey can this be part of the lore for shipmaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryKD3xgHh1c
slim thorn
I doubt Chief might be the last Spartan. I think he will be the best Spartan ever to be put in services.
craggy sierra
Considering there’s like 300+ Spartan 4’s kicking around he’s definitely not going to be the last
And in lore he’s not even the best Spartan 2
Also I think Jun got grandfathered in to the Spartan 4 program. Or at least the other remaining Spartan 3’s did.
cedar surge
How is chief not the best Spartan II?
unique rune
Jun works as a recruiter for Spartan-IV. Any remaining Spartan-IIs and -IIIs were given the option to join the newly-formed Spartan branch.
deep pewter
Because he’s not
cedar surge
He saved humanity and the galaxy multiple times
deep pewter
As have other Spartans
narrow haven
aren't chief and noble-6 the only spartans labeled as hyper-lethal, though?
gilded mason
A good change, even if I would've preferred them just getting rid of that term in its entirety.
narrow haven
huh.
also, does anybody know the unit cost of a scorpion?
i looked it up and nobody's talked about it so i don't know if it's ever been discussed
yeah like the cost of one scorpion
budget was cut on the rocks eventually
nah but i found a wiki page regarding credits. scorpion hasn't been discussed unfortunately ):
cedar surge
Spartan lasers are very expensive it seems
So that throws every argument that the UNSC should have laser guns by now
What?
Since when did the UNSC start using plasma
They use lasers and projectiles
fair hazel
That was the pillar of autumn..
cedar surge
Yea that was on the pillar of autumn
It wwas used for a bit here and there but got discontinued
Yea the SoF got the rhinos from the autumn at arcadia
Yea but there is a guy who is interested in restarting the rhino line
It is effective though
Just other things did better jobs
And less expensive
versed helm
Do we have any details on the physical capabilities of a Spartan? Specifically, Spartan II’s.
Examples; Strength, Speed, Durability, etc.
My assumption to begin with would be that it’s roughly a super soldier, sort of a captain america type of thing.
cedar surge
Yes
We have pages of info on spartans
They aint roughly super soldiers
They are supersoldiers
unique rune
Why didn't the UNSC give the autumn at least one saber to defend itself with?
Well, uh.
It didn't exist when CE was developed.
Though I doubt it'd have changed much.
unique rune
Not to mention the Sabre in-universe was a super top secret "shut up or we kill you" project.
lethal comet
The sabres were still a developing project iirc
craggy sierra
It also apparently got canned pretty quickly after the war I think.
unique rune
The Pillar of Autumn's complement included five Longswords so I don't think it would've been necessary to assign it a Sabre anyway.
lethal comet
Imagine in an alternate universe all s-II from red team and blue team made it to alpha
cedar surge
Wish the sabre got a newer variant instead of being canned for the broadsword
It looked so good
lethal comet
Too expensive I guess
cedar surge
Sure the sabre was too expensive but not the broadsword?
If they could reduce the cost why not also do the same for the sabre
They did it for the longsword
vague scroll
I don't think I quite understand this notion that they reduced the price for anything?
the Broadsword was in service before the Sabre even was considered for military procurement
the Sabre was still a prototype project by the time it was used at Reach in 2552, the Broadsword had already seen 17 years of service in the time frame so it was a proven platform
and plus post war the technology in the sabre could be applied to the Broadsword so it made more sense to keep it in
sure, I get from a design stand point that people love the Sabre design but lore wise the Broadsword is a more pragmatic platform since it can deploy in more environments - the Sabre was a simple space fighter, the Broadsword can fight in atmosphere as well as in space
cedar surge
Keep forgetting the broadsword was before post war
vague scroll
yeah it's easy to forget, no problem there - just something to consider that the less popular space fighter is lore wise the more useful one
versed helm
Sometimes I dislike my friends because we had a discussion about which spartan program was the best lol
versed helm
I told them that the spartan ii are the best not because of chief but in general because Spartans IV are manly veterans/ volunteers and spartan iii are expendable
unique rune
Don’t really see how those things make the -IIs better...
cedar surge
Headhunters,noble team
Not all Spartan 3s were expendable
Plus didn't 3s get better training and enhancements?
unique rune
More or less, yeah
cedar surge
Noble 6 was a 3 and they are the reason chief even got out alive
unique rune
The augmentations weren’t any stronger than what Spartan-IIs received, as far as I’m aware, but they were much safer and less costly.
And the -IIIs has a training program developed based on experience from the Spartan-II program... and that’s even before taking into account they had a Spartan-II in charge of training ‘em.
cedar surge
"Back in my day,2/3rds of a Spartan generation would die before becoming true Spartans! Now we have these fancy and safe new protocols"-a Spartan,maybe
unique rune
The only major disadvantage the Spartan-IIIs had was that they were given the cheaper and less powerful SPI armor, but even that had its own advantages over MJOLNIR PAA.
cedar surge
Some IIIs did get mjolnir though
unique rune
Some were, yeah, but in general they were given SPI.
Spartans IV are manly veterans/ volunteers
Still not really seeing how this is a disadvantage for Spartan-IV.
Kidnapping and indoctrinating children is... not a good look.
Especially when half of them die before they're of any use.
inner basin
Some Headhunters were given a sort of prototypical SPI armour too. We saw it in the Headhunters short, so I’m inclined to believe that some if not all the Headhunters got it. Which is pretty neat because SPI is preferred for stealth over Mjolnir, and if it had shielding, camo, with VISR. It’s not bad overall
cedar surge
Hope SPI is still being used
unique rune
Pretty sure it's still in use in the UNSC.
inner basin
We know a Gamma Spartan who uses it along with the Ferrets from time to time
I think the Gamma Spartan is S-G059 but I could be wrong
unique rune
If I remember correctly some ODST units also made use of it.
Or at the very least tech derived from SPI was incorporated into later armor systems.
inner basin
I’ve never seen that personally, but maybe I’m misremembering.
Ahh okay, I found what you were saying from a Halopedia search
unique rune
Ah, found something.
While SPI has been mostly phased out of use by Spartan-III operatives, some of the photoreactive plating technology has seen limited but successful use in several spec-ops ODST units.```Man I miss the days of weekly Canon Fodder articles.
unique rune
Three of ` on each end
terse lava
good to know
inner basin
Ty
unique rune
Dunno what exactly it's called but it's above the tab key
not an apostrophe
inner basin
Hmm okay, so it’s PC exclusive. I’m on mobile rn
cedar surge
So invisible odsts?
unique rune
Yeah, I don't think I've ever managed to find it on my phone keyboard.
So invisible odsts?
Presumably something along those lines.
cedar surge
Oh I remember a funny scene from collateral damage
inner basin
But yeah I also found out in the meantime that early versions of SPI were tested by ODSTs before the armour saw use by Spartan-IIIs. So that answers the question from earlier
cedar surge
Where blue team tried using new stealth tech but the covenant saw through it so easily
And the elite that said "poorly" just made it funnier
terse lava
that was pretty funny
inner basin
Human stealth Tech wasn’t really as advanced as the Covenant’s for ground troops during the war (which was kinda weird considering we could hide Prowlers)
cedar surge
Though I wish that wrist blade shooter came back in infinite
It was cool
Though in the fleet battle in collateral damage it looks like the UNSC ships weren't fighting back at all
Wait let me check
Oh they did fight back pretty well
Its just they got steamrolled hard
inner basin
Typical for the UNSC tbh
That’s how most naval fights went down
If they weren’t steamrolled then they endured heavy losses in most cases
cedar surge
Going human covenant war history on halopedia and the UNSC won a bunch of space battles but to heavy causulties
Best example is the harvest campaign and concurrent
How big do you think humanities fleet was at its peak?
I think somewhere along 2000 with most of that being frigates and destroyers
Large fleets are nearly 100 ships,with the largest being over 300
spiral jewel
When it comes to the Mantle, are there any humans in the URF and UNSC fully aware of it? , as dumb as question as this is
feral perch
Thel gets criticized for going without air filtration through Flood-infested locations in Halo 2, but...
”The noise generated by his own weapons hammered at the Master Chief’s ears, the thick odor of Flood blood clogged his throat, and his mind eventually grew numb from all the killing.”
–Halo: The Flood (2011 reissue) page 343
cedar surge
Well you can stop the spores but not the stentch of rotting flesh
I the thing about only one gravemind needed to control all flood in the galaxy true?
feral perch
If you can smell the Flood, you’re exposed to their pathogens.
cedar surge
I don't think the flood on the ring we seen in CE reached the airborne stage or else everyone would have been infected already
As cool as a universe as halo is
I would never want to live in it
slim thorn
Rtas definitely can smell the stench but he's not infected.
cedar surge
Flood,covenant,prometheans,created are all out for your throat
Oh yea innies too along with the UNSC and ONI if you're to much of a hazard
feral perch
I don’t think airborn Flood contamination is particularly effective
cedar surge
Well yea a old spore infected a marine and he was barely able to hold on
Though the foward onto dawn got infected by airborne flood I think
How else could have the flood gotten in
terse lava
In Amber Clad was the frigate which the flood captured, not the Dawn. Further yes spores are a slower way of infection, but we see in both classic graphics and h2A graphics there are no spores in the air during the intro to level
feral perch
The Flood yeeted themselves onto IaC
cedar surge
They just threw themselves at it
Make sense
Because nobody would think after what happened on the first ring will happen again
feral perch
actually Miranda was doing dumb stuff and that’s why the IaC got infected
cedar surge
Guess needlessly putting yourself into situations which will get you killed is a genetic trait
feral perch
That’s because he was an ORION
gilded mason
Also, he was probably in his mid-40s biologically
fair hazel
I don't think theres been a limit stated. But spartans are supposed to be able to fight even after being a hundred
fair hazel
he's not old. And spartans are expected to fight then
narrow basin
If you can smell the Flood, you’re exposed to their pathogens.
I mean assuming Flood Spores / pathogens are also sentient...somehow...the reason why neither Chief / Arbiter turned could be because Gravemind / The Flood collective decided not to cause...reasons???
jovial temple
Chief is presumably immune (head canon) or just insanely lucky (which is a legit, genetic trait of his) but arbiter and half jaw? Yeah they should be attack forms or something
I thought maybe the elite shields can protect them from spores but I couldn’t find anything to back it up
Buck mentions, when he becomes a spartan, that his hands, kind of, bounce off each other when they get close since he acquired spartan shields. Food for thought or it’s just one giant plot hole...
lethal comet
In The Library in CE, spark remarks that chief came prepared for the spore stage in a sealed suit
lethal comet
@versed helm you're in the wrong channel
versed helm
General Kenobi cough cough
lethal comet
ik
versed helm
Which channel am I supposed to go to
lethal comet
#general-chat if you want to talk about ce soundtrack
versed helm
Oh brohammer told me to go to a different channel
lethal comet
soundtrack doesnt really qualify as lore sooo
narrow basin
Arbiter? Also shields, I think it’s safe to assume that his shields never went pop in any of the situations involving the flood he was in
@versed helm
But isn't Arbiter's shielding severely outdated tho compared to MJOLNIR.
carmine sleet
Shields are good, it's the active camo he has that's outdated compared to more modern active camo modules used in Spec Ops Elite armour
narrow basin
hmmm I just assume since his active camo is outdated, then the rest of the armor and shielding is probably not up the specs compared to his old Shipmaster/Zealot armor
lethal comet
hmmm I just assume since his active camo is outdated, then the rest of the armor and shielding is probably not up the specs compared to his old Shipmaster/Zealot armor
The arbiter armor's shields might be even better. In the military, higher the rank better the shielding and higher ranking armor even enhance the individuals strenght like mjolnir
slim thorn
Probably due to the Arbiter Armor used by Ripa' Moramee was never be retrieved so the new Arbiter armor got less feature than its predecessors.
Also, regarding SPARTAN-IV recruitment itself, we can take a look at Dutch and Gretchen. Both are retired from ODSTs for years but are recommissioned as SPARTAN-IV.
unique rune
The arbiter armor's shields might be even better. In the military, higher the rank better the shielding and higher ranking armor even enhance the individuals strenght like mjolnir
Well. The problem there is that attaining the rank of Arbiter... really isn't going upwards.
Its tarnished reputation in the era of the Covenant made it more a badge of shame than anything, so it really wouldn't make sense for the armor to be better than other standard combat harnesses.
Especially when the expectation was that the wearer would, y'know, die.
jovial temple
Hence the outdated camo
It wouldn’t make much sense for them to upgrade the shields and not touch the camo
Either
crisp zephyr
is sargent johnson cheifs ai
cedar surge
No
near yarrow
tf?
crisp zephyr
i have been hearing that he survived even though i saw that he went kaboom in the mission halo in halo 3
unique rune
He survived, yes
near yarrow
who in their right mind thinks that guilty spark survived that
humble yacht
Greg bear
fair hazel
His son too in a way
crisp zephyr
is he a new monitor or will he look like the promethians
fair hazel
He’s in a soldier’s body
crisp zephyr
so he might be on the unsc side
humble yacht
That’s unlikely to occur
fair hazel
No. No don’t no just no no no no! I no!
How would I be able to bring myself up to kill Spark???!!
A fellow human. Who’s been on a hundred thousand year old journey. Who’s found solace in his new family.
gilded mason
Many of their grievances never actually went away, so they had no reason to not continue their struggle.
humble yacht
basically the insurrection is still around
they killed rookie, attacked the infinity, Mickey joined them
they're still quite active
gilded mason
And to clarify, the insurrection isn't one huge faction like the UNSC is.
inner basin
It’s more like splinter factions
cedar surge
Both sides,the UNSC and insurrectionists are not on the "good" side
UNSC for ignoring the problems of the OC,experimenting on humans, and ONI,just ONI
Insurrectionists for killing millions of people though not every group does that
Though why would Nicky join the group that killed his friend I don't know
inner basin
Mickey only sided with them because he was at an emotional stage in his life. He was heartbroken at the death of Rookie and then was manipulated into joining them
Of course this is assuming you meant Mickey. Otherwise I have no idea who Nicky is
cedar surge
Yea auto correct happened
humble yacht
Sure
rich aspen
bruh
Mickey can get excecuted for all I care.
Pop a cap right in his insurrectionist traiter looking mustache.
cedar surge
@rich aspen found the ONI spook
vague scroll
@versed helm if you're asking averages - you're only going to get the barebones. Essentially the difference psychology-wise between IIs and IIIs comes down to how they were recruited and nothing more. Otherwise they're the exact same.
S-IIs were kidnapped and replaced with flash clones and told their duty is to fight human rebellion to save mankind. S-IIIs were recruited (though more like conscripted just like the S-IIs since a 4-6 year old isn't going to be experienced enough to know what signing up as a government child soldier is like) and told they were going to kill aliens - the majority of S-III recruits came from ranks of orphans that survived Covenant invasions
inner basin
Also the Spartan-IIIs weren’t forced to join. They were just given the opportunity. But considering how they were war orphans who wanted revenge, most more likely said yes
I always miss out on the Spartan-III discussions :’(
fair hazel
Haha. Well I watched that brandon guy's video on the journey reading the halo novels, hopefully he comes over here to have some people to talk to about it
inner basin
I’m always happy to discuss lore when I’m not tired/sleepy
humble yacht
Also the Spartan-IIIs weren’t forced to join. They were just given the opportunity. But considering how they were war orphans who wanted revenge, most more likely said yes
Children can't make adult decisions
a child saying "yes" to becoming a soldier is not legitimate consent
they don't understand the ramifications of their actions
inner basin
Oh I am aware. But they were given a choice unlike the forced conscriptions of the IIs. Of whom all but 1 was kidnapped as far as we know. Note I said conscriptions because the IIIs, like you said, couldn’t make calculated adult decisions for what they were being asked to do
humble yacht
it's a false choice
ONI wasn't more ethical just because they asked an angry child to join the military so they could get revenge
inner basin
I wasn’t arguing ONI was ethical with it
humble yacht
i know it's fiction so it's easier not to think about such actions in a real capacity but if this happened to a child in the real world, no one would argue they were given a choice
it's just child abuse with a smile instead of a frown
whether you kidnap a kid with candy or with a bag over their head, it's still kidnapping
vague scroll
Chimera I don't want to stop you but I think Beast agrees with you and understands your point
inner basin
I know what you’re saying, but my MAIN and only point is that they were given the option to say no. That was the difference between the IIs and IIIs. Ofc it’s morally wrong, and it’s not a legitimate answer considering their age and so on... That’s all I was trying to say
Chimera I don't want to stop you but I think Beast agrees with you and understands your point
Exactly
cedar surge
And ONI went a full 180 when making the IVs
Did the covenant have anything to use underwater?
It would be annoying if humans hid underwater
vague scroll
covenant ships can act as subs
humble yacht
I imagine that if ONI approached an S3 candidate and they said no, then the ONI op would have been like “are you sure? Don’t you want to avenge your mommy and daddy?”
And guilt tripped them into saying yes
vague scroll
don't make me start thinking of ONI recruiters like school yard bullies "too chicken to avenge your parents, you're a crybaby" proceeding to shove the kid a bit - I won't be able to unimagine this...
inner basin
I imagine that if ONI approached an S3 candidate and they said no, then the ONI op would have been like “are you sure? Don’t you want to avenge your mommy and daddy?”
I imagine that is very likely (considering how scheming the ONI agents in Nightfall were), but I’m sure some resisted, that’s the difference of human nature. But like I did say before, I’m sure most Spartan-IIIs did say yes anyways, that wasn’t the point I was making but rather there was a choice element there
You know I really haven’t put much thought into it to be perfectly honest. I just assumed that it deflected incoming attacks and that was good enough for me
I could imagine that maybe the shields react to the Spartans movements of grabbing things so they push inward say when they are grabbing a weapon or they break at certain points to allow them to grab things, so maybe the hands aren’t shielded. It’s kinda like how ships shields drop in certain parts to allow the ships to fire, but I’m likely wrong in that guess
I do wonder how weapons are able to be holstered on their back or on their thighs though when taking my guesses into consideration, which leads me to believe I am wrong
inner basin
Hmm it’s possible, but I didn’t think that the magnetisation effect would pass through the energy shield layer
craggy sierra
I have a question. Do any of you guys watch Unraveled?
inner basin
No. I don’t even know what that is. Is it an American exclusive movie/show?
craggy sierra
It's a bit of a meme show run by Polygon where a guy goes on insane lengths to...essentially worsen his mental health with video game stuff.
Like he did a toll on how much super smash brothers would owe in OSHA violations and read through and ranked every single lore book in Skyrim
More importantly they put out a video today where he read through every single Halo book for the last year and tries to give a summary
gilded mason
And he commited a grievous sin in the process
vague scroll
he claimed he never played a Halo game before, but his reaction was pretty great all things considered - still lacked some context but I bet he knows more about lore than I do now
craggy sierra
And he commited a grievous sin in the process
He shaved
gilded mason
Even worse!
vague scroll
I best Ostral's going to say his sin was loving the K5 trilogy
vague scroll
I admit I'm more forgiving on K5 than most, but Thursday War bored me a bit
craggy sierra
I'm still gonna dump the video here. It was a fun watch
https://youtu.be/WEWEdIcx1DI
vague scroll
maybe I need to do what he did and pick through the Halo novels again, it has been some time since my last serious reading
gilded mason
Also he didn't like Broken Circle (no idea how much was because of the circumstances he was going through)
craggy sierra
Also I feel like he ends up summarizing my opnion on Halo's universe towards the end
vague scroll
knowing the universe and all is great and you honestly don't need to know everything to enjoy it
inner basin
I admit I'm more forgiving on K5 than most, but Thursday War bored me a bit
Mortal Dictata was the nail in the coffin for me, and thankfully the last of the books by Karen.
craggy sierra
I mean my opnion on Halo was that there should be much more stock put into developing characters over just deepening the lore
I was equal parts amused and touched by his journy
inner basin
If you like that then I think you’d like a YouTuber Dee Bee Geek, who instead of going through the books went through all the digital media on YouTube and the games
vague scroll
I could have spent another decade in the post-Covenant War era rather than the up-the-ante Created Uprising but beggars can't be choosers so I'll take what I got
inner basin
I could have spent another decade in the post-Covenant War era rather than the up-the-ante Created Uprising but beggars can't be choosers so I'll take what I got
Anything Spartan-III, Headhunter and ODST related is what I love to see in the lore
But there’s only so many times I can enjoy the stuff we got. Luckily ODST’s PC release is coming up soon (which I don’t play PC btw but at least I got FF coming to Xbox) so hopefully we have more ONI Archives stuff coming up
cedar surge
What's wrong with the kilo 5 trilogy and Thursday war
The covenant war got 6 games (including halo wars) while post war got 2 before the created
vague scroll
popular consensus was that Traviss had a personal stigma towards Halsey's character and used her story and characters to target her specifically
also that her characters behaved out-of-character
inner basin
I’m just not a big fan of the Kilo 5 trilogy after Glasslands was such a success. Some plot points also literally don’t make sense or are there for convenience.
popular consensus was that Traviss had a personal stigma towards Halsey's character and used her story and characters to target her specifically
This too
inner basin
The Kilo-5 team, I did like though. I do want to see them again, maybe not doing Black Ops missions anymore though
cedar surge
That a group of Spartan IVs right
vague scroll
nope
inner basin
No. The Kilo-5 team is a group of ODSTs with a Spartan-II
vague scroll
ONI kill team reporting directly to Serin Osman
used for clandestine operations and rather illegal activities
cedar surge
Like wiping out remnant leaders
vague scroll
technically that wasn't Kilo-5
cedar surge
Arming your allie's enemies to destroy your only ally and knowing full well they are gonna come after you next
inner basin
technically that wasn't Kilo-5
You know it was heading that way though
cedar surge
Why would ONI be this shortsighted
vague scroll
Kilo-5's only role in it was to kidnap Jul'Mdama
actually i might be remembering that wrong
inner basin
Why would ONI be this shortsighted
To prevent the Elites from ever threatening humanity was their goal with this
vague scroll
they did capture him
vague scroll
because there are Sangheili that aren't the Arbiter that do want to start a war with humanity
cedar surge
But those aint apart of the SoS
vague scroll
it's not like the Sangheili and humans are best friends
inner basin
ONI, well Serin Osman more specifically, Lance
vague scroll
Arbiter doesn't represent all of the Sangheili people, he's just the biggest warlord
inner basin
Well Rojka is an ally too, but that’s a different book
cedar surge
If the UNSC destroy the elites they would have no allies
Their one ally would be dead
vague scroll
to ONI that's a worthwhile trade off
cedar surge
And everyone else would be trying to kill them
vague scroll
let the Jiralhanae and Sangheili kill each other, after that whoever remains ONI can eliminate if they continue to present a thraet
gilded mason
Also, they wouldn't be able to do that. So all that would happen is them kicking the hornet's nest.
vague scroll
it was a short-sighted idea but not one that was without reason behind it
cedar surge
Do they think every elite and brute will try to kill each other
vague scroll
they already were
gilded mason
Short-sighted reason, yes.
cedar surge
The banished shows they can get along
vague scroll
the Covenant civil war called the "Blooding Years"
cedar surge
This sounds like a super villain plan
inner basin
Can I just have it be out there that it’s not the UNSC who wants to kill off the Elites, it’s ONI. There was some errors in there stating that it was the UNSC
gilded mason
ONI is part of the UNSC
cedar surge
ONI just sounds shortsighted,and warmongering after the war
vague scroll
neither of those institutions are monoliths
inner basin
Yeah but it’s ONI that wants that, not the UNSC as a whole.
gilded mason
So not exact, but not entirely inaccurate
vague scroll
Parangosky did say Hood would be furious if he learned of her plans
cedar surge
Its like they don't realize that the UNSC can't bear everyone
vague scroll
not that Hood ever did, he's not exactly the most aware about what goes on behind the scenes
gilded mason
I liked this quote regarding those books
[...]
Whereas Kilo-5 seems less like another dimension to this thematic core and is instead a refutation of it. It focuses exclusively on who we are at our worst, while championing those individuals as our moral compass – neglecting the best of both humanity (and the Sangheili) to be helpless, stagnant, and naive.```You know the UNSC should just do a wipe of ONI
inner basin
Well ONI has done some good
vague scroll
yeah that sounds great, destroy the organization that had the most effect on the war's success
inner basin
But it’s not like the rest of the UNSC know of ONI’s plan to wipe out the Sanghelli or make them an ineffective enemy
cedar surge
Try to keep ONI in check
vague scroll
There is a reason people said Parangosky was the most dangerous woman in human space
people genuinely fear ONI
inner basin
^ They are called Spooks for a reason
gilded mason
"Massively restructure from the ground-up", how about?
cedar surge
Yes
gilded mason
Investigate all the top-level people and send them to prison if they were involved in "things"
inner basin
Investiagte all the top-level people and send them to prison if they were involved in "things"
Sounds like a Halsey situation
gilded mason
Problem there is that they scapegoated everything onto her
inner basin
Yeah that’s true
vague scroll
remember how ONI played an entire puppetshow of government stealing children and then turning around and claiming it was a myth?
cedar surge
On yea
vague scroll
remember how they can just make people disappear?
cedar surge
If your food disappears blame ONI
inner basin
remember how they can just make people disappear?
The Midnight Facility is behind that
gilded mason
Partly why ONI, as they are, needs to be eradicated.
inner basin
That’ll likely never happen though
vague scroll
@inner basin they didn't even scapegoat it all onto her, Parangosky and Osman decided to blame Halsey for the S-IIs personally but no one was told - she was allowed to remain considered MIA, KIA
cedar surge
Not totally
vague scroll
going after ONI, honestly, would start a civil war
cedar surge
ONI,this organization that barely has morals are mad at halsey?
gilded mason
Not in good faith, no
cedar surge
Why not also at the guy who did Spartan IIIs
vague scroll
ONI, the organization that chooses to have morals when it's convenient to them, yes.
Ackerson died defending Pittsburgh, he got a medal
inner basin
Well the guy behind the Spartan-IIIs died. Can’t really go after a dead guy
cedar surge
Oh
vague scroll
Halsey was presumed dead on Reach, she received a plaque
they then locked her in a cubicle orbiting Installation 03 for years
then was moved offsite to somewhere else, then brought aboard Infinity starting in Spartan Ops
cedar surge
Yea you could never do a real reconstruction on ONI.they are all across hidden space,hidden is either secret space stations or bunkers
versed helm
Then backstab the infinity
cedar surge
They could even use Spartans to defend themselves
inner basin
Well they have the Headhunters under their thumb
cedar surge
IVs and IIs might aside with the UNSC but not sure about the IIIs
vague scroll
it doesn't really matter if you tried to reconstruct ONI, the problem is that picking a fight with them would motivate the Insurrectionists back into action
to them ONI and the UNSC/UEG is the same thing
it would quite literally start a civil war all over again
cedar surge
Does this mean that somehow ONI managed to get above the UNSC?
vague scroll
ONI is the UNSC's only intelligence agency
inner basin
No, but they have their tricks and tactics
vague scroll
with it's own military units, it's own navy, it's own resources
cedar surge
You know that reminds me
inner basin
They probably have protocols for defective units/substantial groups
cedar surge
A guy saying ONI should have used their stealth ships in naval battles
vague scroll
they did
inner basin
Well it’s not really clocked anymore if it’s firing it’s weapons, which was their main advantage
vague scroll
the Covenant navy is experienced with destroying prowlers
cedar surge
You mean like uncloaking,dropping bombs, then cloaking again?
inner basin
It’s armaments aren’t strong so that’d be suicide
vague scroll
not even that, in Shadow of Intent, Rtas destroyed something like 4 ONI prowlers that were following the carrier
inner basin
I still wonder what they were hoping to achieve
vague scroll
intelligence
cedar surge
Follow him to the capital?
vague scroll
they were keeping track of a threat
inner basin
Yeah but the fact that there was 4
cedar surge
Its a big ship
inner basin
They doesn’t necessarily need 4 to keep track of 1
inner basin
But they were tailing him
vague scroll
do American destroyers destroy Russian subs when they're tailing them?
inner basin
Well probably once they reached their destination back when there was war, not during peace
vague scroll
the answer's no and it remains no
cedar surge
Has Rtas destroyed many UNSC ships?
inner basin
Probably during the war
vague scroll
because the prowlers operate under plausible deniability, he felt justified in destroying them
ONI considers the Shadow of Intent to be a threat, that's why they kept a massive security presence for it
always tracking it's location
for them, the Sangheili and UNSC are allies in name only
same goes for Rtas
in a great amount of irony - ONI and Rtas think the same way
they see one another as a threat
vague scroll
this was during peace time
loud rose
even as allies the Shadow of Intent glassed Voi
inner basin
Yeah it was post war
cedar surge
Thought this was during the war
inner basin
That was for different reasons, shaumbe
cedar surge
Yea the flood
loud rose
ya but it shows their capabilities and the lengths Rtas would go to to achieve his goals
quasi apex
What happens if two graveminds meet do they form together even though they are different personality wise
inner basin
ya but it shows their capabilities and the lengths Rtas would go to
Well one single flood spore can destroy an entire species. He was being truthful
gilded mason
Though only an hour or so previously, the UNSC agreed to use a Covenant ship's engine core to do the same thing that Rtas just did.
versed helm
How long did you think the proto gravemind took in the mission keys to form
loud rose
Though only an hour or so previously, the UNSC agreed to use a Covenant ship's engine core to do the same thing that Rtas just did.
@gilded mason Tru lmao
quasi apex
3 days
cedar surge
Every elite would be laughing at ripa or shaking their heads in shame watching him die not to a Spartan but to a marine
The fact he died to a marine in hand to hand combat makes it even better
inner basin
Ripa died to an Elite? Did you mean Marine?
quasi apex
And that he was tricked as well
inner basin
And that he was tricked as well
That was his arrogance and nobility getting in the way
inner basin
Look up
cedar surge
Ripa must of had the biggest ego in the games
quasi apex
Fr
cedar surge
He messed up so bad he also got what I think is the original arbiter armor destroyed
inner basin
He saw the humans as puny. You know the bigger they are, the harder they fall
cedar surge
I assume 2
inner basin
Unknown
cedar surge
What did ripa even become the arbiter for anyway
inner basin
He messed up so bad he also got what I think is the original arbiter armor destroyed
As for this, I doubt it. Ripa was taller than average Elites so he probably had the armour made specifically for him or maybe one other Arbiter before. It likely isn’t the original
What did ripa even become the arbiter for anyway
Likely for failing the Prophets and typically in a time of need for the Covenant
quasi apex
Like thel
inner basin
Yeah
cedar surge
The covenant was in a time of need for forerunner ships?
inner basin
Well we don’t know when he was made the Arbiter
quasi apex
I just watched some like halo animated movie, apparently there were two arcs and the first start made like a different version of halo and that’s what installation 07 is
cedar surge
Could a arbiter with MC levels of luck live for a long time or would they just be executed anyway?
inner basin
Yeah the larger Ark and lesser Ark. The larger Ark was destroyed during the Forerunner-Flood war and all but one of the rings (that being I-07) at least I think I-07 is the last of the larger Ark’s rings
unique rune
Yes, there were two Halo Arrays built
sonic mica
What?
quasi apex
How was it destroyed
unique rune
Installation 07 was the last of the original Senescent Halo Array, yeah
Damaged sections of it were purged to shrink it to match the smaller rings of the Neoteric Array
inner basin
Well I don’t know. It’s possible
quasi apex
Hmm
inner basin
I’m not the biggest Forerunner lore guy. Others know way more than myself. I only know the basics
unique rune
The Senescent Array was composed of twelve larger rings, which could only fire in a linear manner
quasi apex
Unlike the neotruc array
unique rune
They were really more just less efficient than the smaller Neoteric Array rings, which fired in every direction
inner basin
I don’t think so.
Maybe actually
I think there was a stand down between Offensive and Mendicant there
Offensive winning ofc
quasi apex
They were definitely have a location given how many forerunners the flood infected
inner basin
I think OB was with the remaining Forerunner fleet and MB was with the Flood fleet and they fought with OB coming out victor. After MB’s defeat he was stored on the Ark and eventually the array was fired
As for OB we have no idea where he is
If I got any facts wrong I’m sure people will correct me on it
quasi apex
A manikin virus comes back and helps chief so in halo infinite will it be kind of cool to have a fence if buyers come back
- mendicant bias
*offensive bias
inner basin
Personally I think it’d confuse new players, so I’d rather not have them come back. I’m all for Easter Eggs relating to the 2, but I don’t really want to see them
quasi apex
That’s fair
inner basin
Besides Infinite it supposed to be a jump in point for new people and trying to explain who these 2 Contender-class Ancillas are would be extremely confusing for them and hard to write for 343
quasi apex
Definitely
One question I have is
Happens if to grave minds from two different infestations meet up do they like form up or do they have like rival hives
inner basin
Yeah they can join their biomass together to eventually form a Keymind. The highest level a Hive mind can reach, I think
quasi apex
Yeah but they have different personalities so it be pretty odd
inner basin
Graveminds can take on any personally from those that they have infected. I assume it’s the same for Keyminds
cedar surge
Yea the flood was on a rampage so they had a gravemind
Or keymind in this case
They got so powerful that they messed with slipspace
inner basin
They had several Keyminds I believe
cedar surge
Isn't keymind a blanket term now?
inner basin
Wdym?
cedar surge
Flood that lead or control other flood?
inner basin
Oh yeah...
But it can be used in different contexts. We’re using it in terms of the massive Flood bodies during the Forerunner-Flood war
cedar surge
Flood has to be the best/worst parasite in any universe
quasi apex
Agreed probably the most lore inflated one as well
loud rose
i miss the flood lmao i cant believe it
quasi apex
Yeah
I also really badly want to play halo 2
But noooo
What was your guy’s first halo game
loud rose
CE
quasi apex
Nice
inner basin
Mine was 4 actually. That’s why it has a special place in my heart
loud rose
the first one i played at launch and was hype for was 3
quasi apex
Mine was 3 I got it like a 2 months ago at a thrift store for 1.20
loud rose
swag lmao
inner basin
After 4 introduced me to the franchise it took me a few years before I got fully invested into the franchise. I played Reach a little while after 4 too
quasi apex
I was in the thrift store and I saw it and I was like I’m pretty sure I was like a really major game like last GEN
Nice
I have yet played 4
inner basin
It’s story is good and it’s MP is divisive, although I personally like it
quasi apex
Is 4 the one with the diadact?
inner basin
Yeah
It’s a shame the Didact’s story arc was cut short... in a story arc of comics called The Next 72 Hours. I still hate that story arc to this day
quasi apex
Y
inner basin
Not only did it indefinitely remove the Didact for the time being (as he isn’t actually dead, but rather composed) but it killed off Spartan-II Black Team
quasi apex
Dang
loud rose
yea the way he was built up then just dropped was unfortunate
inner basin
And that Spartan-II team was killed off-screen, well off-comic, but you get my point
We just see their bodies
quasi apex
Like how chief and Arby reunited in the books
loud rose
lol they did when??????
loud rose
ive never read a book i just go on halopedia lol
inner basin
Yeah they did reunite and have a discussion in one of the books post-Halo 5. I can’t remember which one either
inner basin
After that the team went back to Infinity with Halsey and Osiris
loud rose
when is infinite supposed to take place? like how many years after 5?
inner basin
I think it’s 2560, putting it about 2 years or so after Halo 5
quasi apex
Hmm
loud rose
are they gonna resolve the guardians at all or bring in the diadact or just do banished stuff? i assume wars 2 takes place after 5, do the Created do anything in that game?
inner basin
Ahh I think I know which book the Arbiter and the Chief catch up in. I think it’s Halo: Bad Blood
feral perch
No, but Halo Wars 2 does take place about six months after Halo 5.
Yes, there’s a Guardian at the very end, but it’s not at the Ark.
inner basin
I mean, we do see a guardian at the end of Halo Wars 2 after the Baby Halo gets sucked into slipspace
Did you just say “Baby Halo”? 🤦♂️
Please call it Installation-09, I don’t think I can bear seeing “Baby Halo” again unironically 😂
loud rose
baby halo is canon sorry i dont make the rules
slim thorn
are they gonna resolve the guardians at all or bring in the diadact or just do banished stuff? i assume wars 2 takes place after 5, do the Created do anything in that game?
Considering Cortana is still a part of Created, my guess it will happen. I also bet that Eternal Warden could also appeared at Installation 07 as part of the boss fight.
cedar surge
Well I guess all of those prototypes from all those UNSC companies are going to become useful now
cedar surge
Are IVs getting deployed like Spartan IIIs where they come in waves?
inner basin
IIIs weren’t deployed in waves, they were deployed in companies. 300 at a time. There are only around 300-500 Spartan-IVs on Infinity
lethal comet
Considering Cortana is still a part of Created, my guess it will happen. I also bet that Eternal Warden could also appeared at Installation 07 as part of the boss fight.
I will do anything but fight him again
cedar surge
From my understanding if you kill a prometheans they go back to the domain
So if you want to completely destroy a prometheans you would have to destroy the domain?
cedar surge
in not entirely sure how to explain it
quasi apex
I have heard about it but I am never really like had it explain to me
unique rune
In some ways, it's... kind of like the Internet?
It's a vast, ancient repository of information that the Forerunners made use of in pretty much all aspects of their lives.
The Halopedia page on it describes it pretty well.
https://www.halopedia.org/Domain
quasi apex
So basically our internet except probably less toxic
unique rune
Ehh. I wouldn't quite put it that way.
I'd say it's more akin to something like an online database that you might use for a research project.
Except it's also its own sort of living being.
quasi apex
Like book of knowledge that’s alive
cedar surge
Was there trillions of prometheans fighting in the forerunner flood war?
If there were where did they all go after
quasi apex
What’s a Promethean is it like forerunner infantry
(Sorry I don’t know a lot about post halo 3)
unique rune
Prometheans were an elite group within the Forerunner Warrior-Servant caste, who were under the direct command of the Didact.
At least if I'm remembering my Forerunner stuff correctly.
cedar surge
You know those spooky orange guys in 4 and 5?
Those are prometheans
Oh they are also enslaved humans
quasi apex
The guys who is yell out like a “this guy is using aim bot!” or some thing
floral gazelle
will prometheans be in halo infinite
unique rune
In an effort to more effectively combat the Flood, many of them were voluntarily composed and became the inorganic Promethean Knights that we know and all sorta hate now.
unique rune
Exposed to the beam fired by the Composer. Converts organic matter and processes into a digital... essence?
I dunno how exactly to describe it.
It's noted to be similar to the smart AI creation process.
unique rune
Penitent
But no, I don't believe Forerunner monitors were created using composed individuals.
cedar surge
From what I understand 343 was a ancient human names chakas who got slapped into a glorified lightbulb
quasi apex
Oh I though I read something or heard that the monitors were like former bio
unique rune
343 Guilty Spark was created by transferring the mind and memories of an ancient human named Chakas into a monitor shell, yes.
But I don't think composition was involved in the process... at least I'm not finding anything on it.
The story behind the creation of other monitors is unknown, so it's really hard to say if any others were created through the same methods.
quasi apex
Have you ever heard of the meddling species? Sorry to change the subject but I just read this
*meddlers
unique rune
I’ve heard of them, yes. They’re mentioned here fairly often.
versed helm
Can we all agree that the Gettysburg-Ascendant Justice was a cool hybrid ship
vague scroll
they're a fan catch all term coined by HiddenXperia, it's not an actual species @quasi apex
cedar surge
Man that name is so iconic
quasi apex
Wy
cedar surge
What is that species?
Is that the purple thing that got cut out of CE but came back into canon?
quasi apex
No they were like some species that messed around on I think insulation for
04
In the name meddlers
gilded mason
It's a general term for any species that meddles.
loud rose
343 often refers to the covenant as meddlers
gilded mason
(Guilty Spark, not the company, to clarify)
loud rose
(Guilty Spark, not the company, to clarify)
@gilded mason lol ya totally sorry
vague scroll
meddlers is a term that HiddenXperia has popularized in a lore sense to refer to any actions taken in the background that cannot be attributed to the Forerunners, Humans, Flood, Covenant, or Precursors
loud rose
right, i mean its unhelpful for hiddenx to use
vague scroll
summarizing things like the strange crashed ship seen in the HCEA terminals for example
I mean, if it helps popularize a piece of obscure lore for the general fanbase, more power to it
but it's good to also make sure not to confuse a fan term for canon designation
that's what I'm trying to emphasize for the others in the discussion
loud rose
gotcha
cedar surge
Or we could just blame everything on neural physics
narrow basin
343 Guilty Spark was created by transferring the mind and memories of an ancient human named Chakas into a monitor shell, yes.
But I don't think composition was involved in the process... at least I'm not finding anything on it.
I think it's safe to assume that both process is at least derivative of each other.
The Composer is probably build upon the same tech
jolly furnace
Its odd given the Forerunners had means before composers to do the same thing
fair hazel
there is still difference between an imprint and composing
versed helm
Is the Master Chief ambidextrous? After watching the Starry night trailer, one thing that interested me was his magnum. Holstered on his left, and drew with his left hand. Yet with a rifle he’s right handled. Is it possible that Spartans were trained to be ambidextrous so they have more agility and are more versatile.
vague scroll
They can dual wield so probably yeah
versed helm
makes sense
cedar surge
So before the didact and created showed up were the prometheans just chilling in installations and shield worlds?
And why didn't you see any on the one in halo wars
fair hazel
You mean the ones we fight? They’re were confined to requiem
versed helm
I kinda hate how the legendary ending to halo CE isnt canon.
inner basin
I also don’t think Elites would willingly hug humans, even if they were about to die
versed helm
So in reality, the most powerful pistol in the Halo canon is the Halo 2 pistol? Due to it holding the same cartridge as CE’s but with higher RoF and ammo
inner basin
Yeah, but in the games it’s not so good
sturdy tangle
@inner basin that scene was wholesome doe
inner basin
Meh, it felt kinda odd after I spent the whole game shooting the split-jaws tbh
sturdy tangle
Lol
jovial temple
There were II’s on Harvest
Not very many
But it was glassed a bunch first
even IIs werent in the field yet
@lethal comet II’s were on the field (if by “in the field,” you mean deployed) before the covenant invaded.
Dealing with what they were initially made for - Insurrectionist Ops
marsh tusk
Where was blue team during like everything from halo 1-3? I get they wouldn't be with chief during 4 since that was after he'd got back from being in cryo on the forward unto dawn but how come they were never present in any of the others, surely a team of S-II's is way more effective than on S-II even if said spartan was chief?
jovial temple
Chief was really all they had Ava. A lot of Spartans left on reach were thought to be k.i.a. Well I guess Spartans never die but yeah... anyways
There’s a few books explaining what blue team was up to during those events I have yet to read but I just know that chief was on his own for a reason and everyone thought Linda was most certainly dead (But spartans never die) just prior to CE
humble yacht
Chief reunited with blue team on reach just after CE, they did Operation First Strike and then went back to earth, where blue team was assigned to other missions around earth while Chief ended up following regret
marsh tusk
Thanks
humble yacht
Blue team eventually ended up going to onyx to help Halsey, and stayed there for 3 months before getting rescued. They came back to earth and attended the hilltop memorial service off screen
jovial temple
And bungie didn’t even throw them in a cameo...
to build depressing atmosphere perhaps
lethal comet
They went for the last spartan vibe
humble yacht
Marty says that Bungie didn’t like the books
Which is weird considering joe Staten wrote a couple
But I guess marty speaks for all of Bungie
lavish garnet
I read an interview regarding this, I will see if I can source it. The basics of it were Bungie were making the games, and MS were getting people to make the books. Bungie were never involved, and were never asked to be involved with the books. So when Reach came around, and it was different to how the novel portrayed it, the simple reason is because Bungie didnt look to the novels as source material. THEY were the source material
humble yacht
bungie gave Nylund the halo bible so he could write the book
they didn't want the book to be written but they still gave nylund source material
lavish garnet
and then made their own story after anyways
humble yacht
i'm just saying that they were somewhat involved in the novels, they at least provided contracted authors with the bible
even if they didn't like it
steep pewter
So guys are Spartan III's also shown as MIA even when they are conformed dead?
Like with Spartan IIs.
steep pewter
I guess they did the same with IVs too
lethal comet
According to halpedia reach's story was written by staten
lethal comet
Imo the timeline was the fleet with the solace arrives, unsc keeps it a secret for week, when the solace is destroyed, the autmn leaves but right then vadamee's fleet arrives and attacks new alexandria, spartans go to protect generators for 2 weeks till fall of reach and chief and linda are put in cryo as soon as they return between 15 to 20 august, autumn turns to leave but is called back to reach for cortana's fragment, didn't bother picking up red team as they were mostly kia and reach falls on 30 august.
obsidian thistle
Soo this took a long time to get the right frame. But turns out the MK50 Sidekick is a "Emerson Tactical Systems" weapon.
(For those not in the know, they made the Void Dancer armor that was in Halo 5)
crisp zephyr
what is chipps dubbo because he does not seem human
lethal comet
The man, the legend
carmine sleet
Chipps is just a marine, he's not as legendary as many make him out to be
lethal comet
stacker has the feats but he doesnt get the attention
primal kestrel
What do you guys think happened to atriox?
quasi apex
He’s Coming back
lethal comet
both survived alpha halo, delta halo, mombasa and reach
primal kestrel
i hope he does come back
lethal comet
What do you guys think happened to atriox?
I try not to think much about that
lethal comet
i will just dissapoint myself with assumptions
primal kestrel
I think atriox opened the portal from the ark to the milky way galaxy when the ark was lost
and he went to war with the humans
and in shadows of reach
the master chief kills him
then the banished wanted revenge
like in the demo, the war chief said "will of atriox"
and when i think about it. Whenever someone says will of a person
it means they are dead and they are acting on their will
carmine sleet
Atriox doesn't have a ship to allow him to make it back to the galaxy, the Enduring Conviction was their only ship at the Ark. Atriox also does not have the means to open the portal either
Plus, people wouldn't be happy with him being killed in a novel
primal kestrel
I mean, if Master Chief killed him
that would be epic
i see your point
what if a phantom or other banished air vehical went through the portal to regroup with reinforcements?
and think of it this way
we know the flood is coming back
what if atriox opened the portal and the flood followed
carmine sleet
Atriox is more than likely still on the Ark fighting the Spirit of Fire and the rest of the Banished think he's dead because they haven't heard from him in ages, allowing Escharum
carmine sleet
what if a phantom or other banished air vehical went through the portal to regroup with reinforcements?
Phantoms don't have slipspace drives normally and wouldn't make it far from Earth
primal kestrel
But its a portal
carmine sleet
The Flood aren't likely to come back by spilling out of a Slipspace portal
primal kestrel
like remember how the spirit of fire came to the ark
it didn't have a slipspace drive anymore
jovial temple
It kind of just drifted there didn’t it?
primal kestrel
but somehow it managed to get to the ark, which is outside the galaxy
it can't drift
the ark is outside the galaxy. Getting there would take millions of years if you drift
probably billions
carmine sleet
But its a portal
The portal at the Ark takes you to Earth or the locations of the rings, a Phantom would not be able to go anywhere
like remember how the spirit of fire came to the ark
We don't know who or what allowed the Spirit of Fire to arrive at the Ark but it's not likely to have been the portal used by the Ark
primal kestrel
because last we saw of the spirit of fire before halo wars 2 was them escaping a shield world
there are alot of gaps
in the timeline
carmine sleet
Either way, going back to the Flood point, they're not likely to come back as the big bad, every story that can be told with the Flood has been told and it would just make things feel repetitive of the already existing stories about the Flood we have
carmine sleet
Those weren't leaks, those were recording of pugs
primal kestrel
yea still
carmine sleet
And they didn't sound Flood-like
primal kestrel
they can't be brutes
carmine sleet
Wildlife, Infinite will be featuring wildlife
jovial temple
I don’t think Earth is the only portal to the ark
Otherwise that’s a big plot hole
primal kestrel
yea
and remember
the ark has a safety protocol that prevented cortana from taking over
carmine sleet
It's not a plot hole if there's only one portal to the Ark
The Ark can send the Halos to their designated locations
primal kestrel
isn't it a concidence that after a few months after cortana enforces her power over the galaxy that atriox showed up
how did atriox get to the ark?
without a portal, it would be impossible
carmine sleet
No. Atriox was more than likely making his way to the Ark long before the situation with Cortana
without a portal, it would be impossible
He took the long way
carmine sleet
That's literally how he got there
jovial temple
It would have to be a slipspace portal we don’t know about
carmine sleet
He didn't use a portal we don't know about
primal kestrel
heres something else to think about
the ark is 250,000 light years from galactic center
carmine sleet
the ark is out of range
Out of range for the Halos, not of someone travelling there in a large ship
carmine sleet
The UNSC also once sent a ship the long way, the UNSC Rubicon
primal kestrel
covanent slipspace to be exact
carmine sleet
Slipspace doesn't have an exact "speed"
primal kestrel
it would take 342 days to get to the arc
carmine sleet
slipspace travels 2.625 light years per day
Where did you get this figure from?
And you're also assuming Atriox set off from the center of the galaxy
primal kestrel
isnt it a coincidence that atriox got to the ark 1 month after cortana enforced her rule over earth?
humble yacht
we don't know how long atriox had been in slipspace
jovial temple
So apparently an unknown entity generated a slipspace portal to transport the spirit of fire to the ark
humble yacht
yes
humble yacht
no
primal kestrel
Mendicant Bias?
humble yacht
it's possible but i hope not
jovial temple
Interesting
primal kestrel
think about it
humble yacht
i have
primal kestrel
its a powerful AI
humble yacht
i still don't like it
he was supposed to die in H3
it was a fitting end to his story
humble yacht
i hate ATN
primal kestrel
Its still canon
humble yacht
pure fanservice
carmine sleet
342 years
Atriox was definitely not travelling for that long
terse lava
as a plot point ATn is pretty annoying
primal kestrel
i agree
terse lava
but I am glad they did it for the pure flood fighting
humble yacht
doesn't mean they should repeat moves like that
humble yacht
fanservice for fanservice's sake is not good narrative
terse lava
you know something I have not seen claimed as the maker of the portal. Could Tragic Solitude have survived in some form?
carmine sleet
The Banished being in both is not an indication of the Flood returning
humble yacht
i'd like to avoid "might as well" reasonings
you know something I have not seen claimed as the maker of the portal. Could Tragic Solitude have survived in some form?
only by retcon
even then it wouldn't make sense because TS was not a fan of humans
primal kestrel
@terse lava Probably not. Tragic Solitude would have made more aggressive moves against the banished
terse lava
well really it would make sense for the ark to craft him a new monitor body, otherwise when you really think about it, what's the point in a monitor if they can die
primal kestrel
We only saw programed sentinals
humble yacht
no point in crafting a new body if the old unit has completely shut down
terse lava
so the forerunners just made it impossible to have the memory of the monitor back up to a new unit?
carmine sleet
Tragic also preferred to be part of the Ark opposed to using a Monitor body, if I'm remembering Hunters in the Dark correctly
terse lava
well he claimed he was the ark
that always just felt like a massive plothole to me. The most important forerunner creation, and it doesn't rebuild its monitor
humble yacht
if monitor's could be backed up and copied then it would diminish their individuality
i like it when characters are imperminent
especially considering they use to be real people, who were composed
terse lava
that I agree with, but from a lore perspective, it seems like a big flaw foe the forerunners
jovial temple
If the flood do show up in halo infinite, it’s likely because the banished could not contain it despite wiping out a proto-gravemind
humble yacht
well that was a different group of banished in all likelihood
terse lava
I could see them flopping it, but it does depend on ho many troops are on the ring
Heck, Thel's fleet of Particular Justice held their own for a while and prevented the flood from escaping the system. And they were only 12 ships
cedar surge
Well they only had a single ship attached to the ring right?
Truth and reconciliation
humble yacht
no
thel followed with his whole fleet
the T&R is just where they held capt. keyes
cedar surge
Oh
cedar surge
What did the covenant want capt keys for
humble yacht
information
terse lava
Quite certain that of Thel's fleet, only the closest followed him
humble yacht
he literally says "and I followed with all the ships in my command"
jovial temple
He did indeed
humble yacht
at the time, he was a Supreme Commander so he would have commanded more than just a few ships
jovial temple
And none of them had brutes probably
gilded mason
There was at least one other that I can't recall the source of at the moment, but one was the instruction manual of Halo 2. It was from the perspective of Thel and he was talking about Brute reports of John on the ring.
terse lava
His whole fleet was 60 vessels before reach. We see only 12 follow the POA
jovial temple
Well that would clear up some controversy explanation on why ya don’t fight brutes in CE other than the obv “bungie didn’t think of them yet.”
terse lava
Well the battle was across the ring. You really think thel would give the honor of fighting the humans to jiralhanae?
jovial temple
Fair point but that still wouldn’t fully explain, if someone argued, that there just weren’t any brutes at all in his fleet. Thel, at that time, was definitely insanely prideful nonetheless
terse lava
Yes, but he certainly wouldnt give the apes any tasks worthwhile
jovial temple
Was there an ongoing feud between the jiralhanae and Sangheli even during reach and before?
terse lava
Since the jiralhanae incorporation into the Covenant. Their lifestyle made it almost 2and nature to fight to the top of the pack. Thus when brought into the Covenant, sangheili commanders saw them as a threat to the council and hierarchs
That's why they were treated lousy
sly yew
It was always if I remember. The Jiralhanae were ripped off when given ships because the elites weakened them so the they wouldn’t go blowing up Covenant assets. This made the Brutes mad especially when they were being used as “expendable muscle” at times like said in Halo Wars 2.
terse lava
I dont blame them. The jiralhanae never showed anything really well temperament wise
quasi apex
The brutes remind me more of a wolfpack
terse lava
Showed no sanctity to forerunner relics, still fought each other for dominance, killed and ate fellow covenant
sly yew
Some of them tried getting forerunner relics. Such as Tartarus and his Uncle. Other than that there’s really no one lol
terse lava
True but even tartarus showed no real holiness to forerunner relics
cedar surge
Did the brutes ever make warships?
Bed o re they nu k ed themselves back to the stone age
versed helm
I mean they lost the battle at the ark lol
terse lava
They had some.type of ships before their civil war, sering as they had colonies on their moons
carmine sleet
I mean they lost the battle at the ark lol
They used Covenant ships at the Ark in Halo 3, not ships of their own design
inner basin
They also lacked the experience in commandeering ships too (for the most part) considering how they just got battered
versed helm
How far do you think a person needs to go underground to survive being glass
Because I always wonder how deep did noble team went to the sub level bunker
gilded mason
Not that we know of
inner basin
I don’t think so Chiva (as far as we know). The UNSC typically match Spartans up based on their previous missions, their MOS, or how well the team works together
paper hedge
If I’m correct, the first female UNSC was introduced in Halo 3 right?
I remember watching female UNSC helping you
grave swift
Foehammer was in Halo: CE and there were defintely female Marines in Halo 2
cedar surge
Yea I think the only games that don't have female marines are CE and 4.
And in the face of extinction I don't think the UNSC will care about gender
grave swift
Defintely not. Which does make me giggle a bit when the occasional person comes along and says female Marines and Spartans is unrealistic. Like, it's a war of survival!
fair hazel
I don’t recall the last time though someone made such comments.
Weren’t they for some reason just cut in halo 4? They were they’re but cut for an unknown reason
cedar surge
Wat
Who would say
Female marines and Spartans are unrealistic?
How does that make sense
unique rune
Some people apparently think it's still the early 20th century I guess
cedar surge
They really think that 500 years in the future against a war of extinction or even before against insurrectionists the military are going to care who you are
Heck,it is so bad that I read on a halo subreddit a person hating vale for being a Spartan but using a small arm weapon and wishing that she would die
And complaining she is a "elite weaboo"
gilded mason
How sad. There are much better reasons to dislike Vale. =)
cedar surge
Doesn't even include the gene pool comment
Though its Reddit so what should have I expected
inner basin
People are too busy holding on to the past that they don’t see how better the future could be if we learnt from mistakes we made in the past. I’m not gonna speak too much more on this due to the rules and guidelines of the server
unique rune
Uh. Judging by how Jiralhanae are... I doubt there's any singular power that's really in control of Doisac.
slow igloo
Wouldve thought most of the brutes would be following Atriox but who knows. they dont really have a single governate power
yee
This new Warchief talks about a "Harbinger" like they are allied or something. Wonder if he's talking about the Created. Kinda see them (brutes) respecting the power Cortana has now and just following suit
can see that happening without Atriox's presence
cedar surge
Created and banished goals don't aline
versed helm
I love how in the Spartan Field Manual, they label the threat level of each species and group
Jackals/Grunts/Crawlers: Low
Elites/Hunters: High
Prometheans/Jiralhanae: Very High
Flood: Extreme
terse lava
They did the same in the halo 3 beastinarium
cedar surge
Can't grunts rip arms off
vague scroll
it's never been seen in lore but fan interpretation generally has been to answer said question with "yes"
mostly because humans are flesh bags and Unggoy are crab monkeys
gilded mason
fan interpretation generally has been to answer said question with "yes"
Canon also says yes
Thorne talks about it
vague scroll
was that the Spartan Manual or Escalations? @gilded mason
crawlers have always been part of the prometheans
cedar surge
Oh I guess drones don't exist as a threat for the UNSC anymore
cedar surge
Just not listed
vague scroll
nah, they still get talked about in the books and external lore
cedar surge
Oh they are still fighting around?
gilded mason
@vague scroll
Field Manual
vague scroll
aw I tend to skim my copy of the SFM so I miss things like that
unique rune
Alright. Finally gonna do it.
Finally gonna get myself to actually read and finish Smoke and Shadow.
vague scroll
have fun man!
unique rune
Been putting this off for way too long.
versed helm
@gilded mason do you have a scan?
gilded mason
trail nexus
masterchief could kill goku in a 1v1 prove me wrong
cedar surge
No
versed helm
Thanks dude
That’s cool, but I don’t think it suddenly means they’re going to be a threat to Spartans lol
But it does give light to their melee features in Halo 5
cedar surge
There is a new company who produced that gun in the trailer I guess. Misriah might not be the top weapons provider anymore
unique rune
CIA391 ID-ed the company that manufactured the Sidekick earlier. Said it was by Emerson Tactical Systems. Same company that designed the Void Dancer armor from Halo 5.
I doubt the UNSC’s shifted suppliers from Misriah Armory, considering their long standing history of providing arms for the UNSC.
More likely I’d imagine Emerson’s stocks act as a supplement to what they do have.
unique rune
Alright. That’s Smoke and Shadow wrapped up.
Took me... Just under 2 hours to get through?
Went by pretty quick.
Kind of annoyed at myself for putting it off for nearly 2 years.
All in all I would say I enjoyed it.
Need to get my hands on a copy of Renegades next...
Gotta give her credit for her shout-out to the Yonhet, though. I mean, nobody remembers those guys.
Jeez, Buck. Ouch.
gilded mason
I'm hoping the rest of the Fringe, whenever they eventually get filled out, take cues from the previous concept art for Covenant aliens, or use those designs entirely.
Because concept art Brutes look really good
Specifically the cyclops version with the huge tusks.
cedar surge
More aliens are welcome
vague scroll
Look it up on YouTube, it’s all there
@cedar surge the CQS48 bulldog was also made by Misriah so they’re definitely not going anywhere
cedar surge
Maybe this time it will be a reasonably sized weapon
versed helm
So grunts are strong enough to rip off arms, and yet Brutes toss them like footballs and crush them like toys
That’s pretty badass
cedar surge
Can't brutes rip a Spartan in full armor in half? That's a step above ripping a arm off
craggy sierra
Also grunts being strong doesn’t really change someones ability to pick them up.
lethal comet
Can brutes and elites get ptsd?
gilded mason
Would be a reasonable assumption
craggy sierra
I’m pretty sure anything that has emotions can get it
versed helm
@cedar surge Tartarus was stated to be strong enough to tear any other covenant species apart, meaning ripping Sangheili in half is likely - Spartans on the other hand, is more ambiguous
Decimus could crush an Elite’s windpipe effortlessly, and it’s not out of the question to believe Sangheili could lift 2-3 tonnes (or the strength of about 20 men)
I’d wager that it would look more like Jackals<Elites=Grunts<<Spartans<Brutes=High-ranking Elites
terse lava
We saw Decimis easily lift sangheili minors into the air and punch them aside like nothing. We also have been a regular jiralhanae overwhelm a spartan II twice. 3rd, we see a sangheili zealot lift a fully armored Emile
versed helm
Don’t forget Ripa ‘Moramee partially slowing the slipspace drive ;_;
Which is easily heavier than a Grizzly
terse lava
He didnt slow it at all
versed helm
I actually slowed down the video, and he did by about 30 percent. There’s also a screeching sound to accompany it
That’s easily as strong as the Unggoy throw if not stronger
terse lava
That can easily be the sound of metal on metal. You gear it begin even before Ripa attempts to stop it
versed helm
Yeah, but a secondary traction sound effect comes the moment he puts his hands on the drive
I made an analysis on it a while back
terse lava
Hm..ok
versed helm
But Ripa’s exceptional by Elite standards, so not a good example of someone that’s merely high-ranking
On the other hand, a single punch from a Spartan-II to lower Elites is repeatedly shown to be either crippling or lethal
terse lava
Mhm
versed helm
(Halo: The Flood, Halo 4, Halo Wars 2)
cedar surge
Yea ripa is tough but that doesn't change a energy sword to the torso
versed helm
Elites are very polarising compared to the rest of the covy members lol
cedar surge
All around probably the best infantry
versed helm
Yeah Brutes still have the greatest endurance no matter what
Don’t think an Elite could survive energy swords to centre-mass as you mentioned, or have half of their brain matter torn out
terse lava
Half their brain matter torn? If you mean from Ghosts of Onyx, the jiralhanae who pinned Fred had a neat little hole put into his head.
cedar surge
Could have sworn I heard Johnson ramming a warthog into a brute breaking its spine and still living
How does a brute survive a broken spine
terse lava
That was maccabeus, and the hog broke his leg
versed helm
Nah, from Envoy
terse lava
Have not read that so idk
versed helm
Some cybernetic was put into a Chieftan’s eye socket, which was attached deep into his brain cortex. The gadget was forcefully ripped out, and he survived
Contact Harvest is actually on the lower spectrum of Brute showings
Though the Chieftan was rammed in the chest by a hog speed which also splattered a Drone by the windshield