Harvest was only partially glassed
#lore-and-universe
craggy sierra
Glassing requires an enormous expenditure of time and resources.
AI have calculated that a total glassing of earth could take upwards of 30 years with thousands of ships. The covenant don’t have that time and resources. They just want to make it so the planet isn’t immediately useable in supplying to the opposing war effort anymore.
west silo
Harvest was only partially glassed
@craggy sierra
Harvest is weird first the planet was completely glassed then the next the planet was alright and unsc fought for 5 years to get it back
AI have calculated that a total glassing of earth could take upwards of 30 years with thousands of ships. The covenant don’t have that time and resources. They just want to make it so the planet isn’t immediately useable in supplying to the opposing war effort anymore.
@craggy sierra
Oh no not the reach data pad that also tires to retcon everything while ignoring existing lore which is also from reach
Did I mention I hate reach
craggy sierra
I do too but this is just a fact of the covenant
They do no glass every inch of a planet
It’s a waste of time and resources for them to do so
Pragmatism isn’t a retcon.
west silo
They were at war for 30 years the. Prophets didn't have but the elites doing all the work didnt care
cedar surge
They don't have to glass everything to make it uninhabital
They can aim for things like volcanos to do it
west silo
They don't have to glass everything to make it inhabital
@cedar surge
Loke the planet in the return
jolly furnace
Question - HALO 4 - did MC stay outside covie ship when Mantles approach went into slipspace leaving requeim?
cedar surge
When you say you hate reach you mean the game right?
west silo
They can aim for things like volcanos to do it
@cedar surge
Like biko in slient storm
jolly furnace
Or did he somehow get inside the interior just before it went into slipspace
I assume he was outside and the ship's quantum field protected him
from the slipstream's velocity
west silo
Question - HALO 4 - did MC stay outside covie ship when Mantles approach went into slipspace leaving requeim?
@jolly furnace
The lich scene yes
delicate notch
Did "Mantels Approach" heal itself after the mac shot or did it just leave?
jolly furnace
Uh yes and no
delicate notch
So both?
jolly furnace
It closed up the breached area
cedar surge
Well I don't think heal
jolly furnace
and then kept its orbit
craggy sierra
Biko is being re-colonized as of 2558. So clearly it wasn’t glassed that bad.
cedar surge
There has to be around 80 to 100 colonies that survived
delicate notch
@jolly furnace So kinda like you shot into the engine of a car and then it closed the hood?
west silo
Biko is being re-colonized as of 2558. So clearly it wasn’t glassed that bad.
@craggy sierra
No they let a super volcano erupt to do the work for them
craggy sierra
Even better
Either case I still don’t see why the covenant would take the time to glass every inch of a planet
delicate notch
"Hello Yellow stone my old friend, I've come to explode with you again"
craggy sierra
Like it’s just not necessary.
west silo
There has to be around 80 to 100 colonies that survived
@cedar surge
I dont think that much mythos saids only a few dozen colonies remain
cedar surge
Imagine if the covenant targeted yellow stone
craggy sierra
Lets be real. Yellowstone probably already blew by 2550
cedar surge
From reading halopedia there seems to be more than a few dozen left
Like I'm surprised how many known colonies survived
west silo
From reading halopedia there seems to be more than a few dozen left
@cedar surge
Few dozen could be anywhere from 30 to 60 so
Like I'm surprised how many known colonies survived
@Dr.Lance#8
A few dozen out of what was once 800 that's tragic
cedar surge
So it could be around 5 dozen?
west silo
I'd soy maybe 40 to 50 survived
cedar surge
At most 70 to 80?
Well at least the unsc doesn't have to worry about a huge civil war anymore
west silo
Well at least the unsc doesn't have to worry about a huge civil war anymore
@Dr.Lance#80
Why kill each other when there's a giant metal bird that will do it for us
cedar surge
By the time of 2580 when reach got re colonized how many colonies do you think there is and how large the population gotten?
west silo
Probably got 5 more or something Meridean was a rushed job and was expected to be done in the next generation or something
delicate notch
Is there actually a reason why the rings got habitable lands and continents?
west silo
Is there actually a reason why the rings got habitable lands and continents?
@delicate notch
They would not have gotten approved if they could not sustain life the lifeworkers and all
cedar surge
Do you think we will ever think we will get a fortress world like reach for a while?
craggy sierra
Forerunners and their whole builder culture to determine status in their society. They made everything unnecessarily extra to basically have better social standing on the rings. This is why i05 throws a bunch of aztec ruins around for literally no reason.
west silo
Because forerunners are stupid
@craggy sierra dude look at us can u really call the forerunners stupid
craggy sierra
It’s actually literally just because they thought it would look good and get them societal brownie points
They forerunners were advanced but they were also very dumb and short sighted
delicate notch
Yea, I always woundered about the aztec building and stuff.
west silo
In this year
spiral jewel
||Since Guilty Spark is a member of the Ace of Spades crew, who's supposed to take over as monitor of the Installation 04 series ( as of Installation 09/04C )||
craggy sierra
Yeah no that’s literally all there is to the aztec stuff. It’s because a forerunner liked building with moss stone in minecraft.
versed helm
I know this is a basic statement but I really wish we didn't learn about the forerunners
west silo
Ok
delicate notch
To keep the mystery alive?
versed helm
yeah
west silo
Mysteries can only go so far
cedar surge
Its interesting that they were as flawed as anybody and not gods
craggy sierra
They also based their installation monitor AIs off of human consciousness without questioning how well a psyche would be able to withstand eons of isolation without contact which is why guilty spark is coocoo for cocoa puffs.
west silo
Might as well say u wish we didn't learn about the covenant
versed helm
I'd rather they go all "lost kingdom" and give us bits of lore here and there
craggy sierra
Forerunners were not smart people
And also don’t even get me started on this whole mantle BS. Like what a load of crock all that is.
cedar surge
Precursors started it
craggy sierra
Forerunners perpetuated it
west silo
They also based their installation monitor AIs off of human consciousness without questioning how well a psyche would be able to withstand eons of isolation without contact which is why guilty spark is coocoo for cocoa puffs.
@craggy sierra
Actually guilty spark is the only one that was human all the others were created and guilty sparks human memories were locked away so they wouldn't interfere with his objective
craggy sierra
Locked memories or not, it doesn’t help with prolonged isolation.
west silo
And also don’t even get me started on this whole mantle BS. Like what a load of crock all that is.
@craggy sierra
It just like religion in real life everyone believes in something
cedar surge
Mantle is even more BS than the covenants religion
delicate notch
Why do people want to find mendicant bias and not offensive bias when talking about infinite?
west silo
Locked memories or not, it doesn’t help with prolonged isolation.
@craggy sierra
Spark only went really crazy when they tried to destroy his ring a second time
craggy sierra
It was a galactic dictatorship and the building of an unhealthy hubris. The fact that they till their dying breath still expect humanity to carry on the mantle shows they haven’t learned any lessons about how they poorly conducted themselves.
cedar surge
The best thing is that all the AI got from this is the delusion that they deserve the mantle
west silo
Mantle is even more BS than the covenants religion
@cedar surge
Lets genacide these people for our God's
Let's protect these people
Yeah I see ur point
craggy sierra
No the forerunners were pretty much doing what the created are doing now I’m pretty sure
cedar surge
Massacaring people?
craggy sierra
They subjugated a lot of people
cedar surge
Peace by force
craggy sierra
Yeah
Tbh Halo’s probably moving to the point where the galaxy realizes the forerunners were full of it and rejects the mantle as a concept all together.
cedar surge
The funny thing is that cortana claims the created isn't being the same as the forerunners
craggy sierra
Either that or all species share the responsibility of the mantle mutually.
Most megalomaniacs don’t
west silo
So are u saying the forerunners were villians or something because ur making them sound like the galactic empire
cedar surge
They were
delicate notch
Pretty much even worse, or larger spanning at least
cedar surge
The empire was more fair
feral perch
The Forerunners were not good
cedar surge
At all
craggy sierra
Yeah there’s very little ambiguity about what the forerunners were.
The answer is bad and dumb
west silo
The empire was more fair
@cedar surge
No dude please do not say that
delicate notch
Did the Forerunners exist of more than forerunners? Mixed spieces like the covenenanntntnnanant or just one, like the humans.
west silo
Did the Forerunners exist of more than forerunners? Mixed spieces like the covenenanntntnnanant or just one, like the humans.
@delicate notch
Just forerunners
craggy sierra
Nope. They had lots of species under them, aka below the mantle. But there was only one race of forerunners.
cedar surge
I think it was a thousand species but that sounds unlikly
west silo
Okay guys do u really believe the empire is better than the forerunners
humble yacht
yea
cedar surge
Yes
delicate notch
Yea
humble yacht
the forerunners were arrogant but not evil
craggy sierra
Yep
west silo
Forerunners are the carriers of the Mantel and they had a bunch of allies
@delicate notch
Imagine a garden in a garden
craggy sierra
Tbh being outright evil would’ve been the lesser of two evils there
They also apparently intentionally made the prophets look ugly while re-seeding the galaxy with genetic manipulation because they were really petty.
cedar surge
The forerunners threw a hissy fit and nearly killed a entire race for example
jolly furnace
They may have degraded the san shyuum genetically
craggy sierra
But then the prophets went and in-bred a bunch too to not help matters.
jolly furnace
as punishement after the san sahyuum surrendered
despite their promises they wouldnt do such a thing
I could see Faber being behind that
craggy sierra
And now they have balls for ears
jolly furnace
Faber nearly killed the san shyuum
cedar surge
The empire would unjustly arrest while the forerunners would devolve you
jolly furnace
The forerunners didnt authorize that
Forerunners would either devolve or genocide a species if they were too much trouble
west silo
Dude the empire genacides for laughs the only genacided there creators and felt so bad those involved self exiled themselves and the rest erased it from there memories
jolly furnace
empire would go for the genocide if u werent worth anything
humble yacht
the forerunner ecumene may have been led by a vindictive butthead but at least it had nice people like the Librarian in positions of power
jolly furnace
as slaves
delicate notch
Thats pretty much what the master builder and the primodial(Or was it mendicant bias?) did to the humans @west silo
west silo
Do u know what the empire did to the fish people
jolly furnace
forerunners would have genocided mankind if not for librarian
and flood faking a cure
cedar surge
The forerunners didn't leave the galaxy because they felt bad
jolly furnace
fish people?
delicate notch
Fish sticks
west silo
forerunners would have genocided mankind if not for librarian
@jolly furnace
Because the humans were acting extremely murder happy and couldn't be bothered to send them a message saying yo dog flood bois
cedar surge
Muder happy?
west silo
Or the quaran
@cedar surge any canon
cedar surge
We can't exactly do that can we then
Cause there are two versions of the empire
One can be worse than the other
west silo
Muder happy?
@cedar surge
Killing any planet in there path
cedar surge
What one did the other could have not done
The were glassing planets cause of the flood
west silo
What one did the other could have not done
@cedar surge
And the forerunners didn't know until it was too late
cedar surge
I was talking about the empire there
west silo
I was talking about the empire there
@cedar surge
Oh
west silo
U know ancient humanity is basically the galactic empire minus the sith
I was talking about the empire there
@cedar surge
Oh
You said your using any canon
@cedar surge
Actually I said legends
jolly furnace
We acually dunno much bout ancient humanity
cedar surge
@cedar surge any canon
@west silo
west silo
in regards to its politics
@jolly furnace
They do have some awesome face paint tho
west silo
You didn't specify legends
@cedar surge
Well sorry for not being more clear
jolly furnace
I just imagine AH as a more advanced UNSC
west silo
Well since were already on the topic GE vs the forerunners anyone
cedar surge
If we are using the canon forerunners shouldn't we use the canon empire?
delicate notch
AH was WAAAAY more advanced than UNSC
cedar surge
Yes it is but still less advanced than forerunners
delicate notch
Yep.
west silo
If we are using the canon forerunners shouldn't we use the canon empire?
@cedar surge
The legends ge is more fleshed out but ok
delicate notch
Legends isnt canon tho
cedar surge
Just cause legends is more fleshed out doesn't mean its canon
delicate notch
I thought the Forerunners got scared of the human tech for a while, until they whiped them/sent them back to the stone age.
cedar surge
No humanity wasn't ever above the forerunners
west silo
Legends isnt canon tho
@delicate notch
Alright alright u win
jolly furnace
human military tech was in some ways beyond forerunners
for a time anyway
as pointed out by didact
delicate notch
Might be that which I am referencing @jolly furnace
jolly furnace
and Spark
in renegades
and librarian i think
Overall both specis were mostly equal
west silo
I thought the Forerunners got scared of the human tech for a while, until they whiped them/sent them back to the stone age.
@delicate notch
There weapons could bypass some of the forerunners defenses but nothing else
jolly furnace
foerunners held advantage in slispace and mega engineering
though
We know only that forerunners had no defense for a time against some human/san shyuum weapons
I assume precursor tech was involved in those weapons
delicate notch
Never gotten my head around mega construction. What happens to the arc-planet when the planet is emptied?
west silo
Nope impossible
delicate notch
The planet in the middle of the arc is there for materials to build the Halos, so what happens when the planet is done fore? Does the arc seek out a new planet to get material from? @jolly furnace
west silo
Because the forerunners couldn't even understand neural physics and humans just built structures around the precursor stuff
cedar surge
Ey star roads
So when they say star roads do they mean literally?
Cause I want to drive a warthog on that
delicate notch
Star roads are like constructed roads between galaxies and withing galaxies
west silo
The planet in the middle of the arc is there for materials to build the Halos, so what happens when the planet is done fore? Does the arc seek out a new planet to get material from? @jolly furnace
@delicate notch
The retriever sentinels go and find materials I think that's how they repaired the Ark in the book
delicate notch
Yea, but they use the planet in the middle. So what happens if the planet is out and the Ark is damaged? D:
cedar surge
"Hippity Hippity earth is our property now"
Just Sentinals just yoink a planet to the ark
Who is gonna stop them
west silo
So when they say star roads do they mean literally?
@cedar surge
Imagine a grey sliver planet thats made of tentacles that look like razor wire
jolly furnace
I imagine the weapons that forerunners no defense against were created by human/san shyuum using precursor tech as they were gathering, studying and reverse-engineering it at charum hakkor and Cryptum implies at the time they understood precursor stuff better then forerunners did.
And forerunners barely even began understanding it
terse lava
The star roads were uses to walk by the precursors
jolly furnace
Yes
cedar surge
Forerunners always were sore losers
jolly furnace
precursors literally walked on those roads
jolly furnace
which is kinda weird given the roads can cross star systems
cedar surge
Star road warthog run here we come!
delicate notch
You dont think?
cedar surge
Don't know
delicate notch
"You dont deserve the mantel" - "Okay, we gonna kill you and then forget about it"
cedar surge
Killing a entire race cause you didn't get something
That sounds like a sore loser to me
small path
So were precursors cthulu looking Bois?
terse lava
We really going to take the gravemind as being truthful?
jolly furnace
about which
cedar surge
About the genocide?
jolly furnace
Some of it i do think is true
We know it happened
forerunners memories confirmed they genocided tthe precursors
terse lava
We have 2 origins for the war. That either the forerunners did it out if spite or because they were threatened with erasure by the precursors
delicate notch
We know it happened, but the circumstances might have been different from what the primodial/GM said.
terse lava
3 would fall with 2 wouldnt they
west silo
If it were the humans that were in the forerunners shoes would u feel sympathetic towards them
Tank beats everything
@cedar surge
Until u have a plasma pistol
jolly furnace
I mean if the Precursors did intend to genocide the forerunners, u cant blame forerunners for attackin first
Another account made by the Curator between 2554 and 2558 with information it learned from the Domain gives a version of the events that both match up with and differ from those of the former two accounts. According to this account, the Precursors seeded life in the Milky Way before settling in Path Kethona, leaving behind only remnants of their existence in the Milky Way. These remnants would later be discovered by the Forerunners who would also learn of the Mantle and lay claim to it as they were the most technologically advanced species in the galaxy thus believed it should fall to them to uphold it. However such power made the Forerunners arrogant and prideful, which was observed by the Precursors. The Precursors did not approve of the Forerunners' brash claim to the Mantle and decided to wipe out the Forerunners and give the Mantle to another species they deemed worthy. The Forerunners discovered this when they sent an expedition to Path Kethona in search of the Precursors, ultimately encountering them. The Forerunner leadership was determined to avoid this fate and struck a preemptive strike on the Precursors, launching the largest known military campaign in the Milky Way's history at the time. They proceeded to near-exterminate their creators with only a fraction of their forces returning and then kept the conflict and its outcome a secret throughout the majority of Forerunner history.[9]
From Mythos - summmarized
terse lava
Cant blame the forerunners there either I'd say
west silo
So going by that the forerunners were in the wrong but also in the right since the precursors just up and said lets kill em all
terse lava
Well there's no point where the precursors outright try to teach them differently
In any version really
jolly furnace
Ultimately we still dont know the exact details of why it started
terse lava
Yep
jolly furnace
And likely never will
terse lava
Eh incould see the answer being revealed right before the finale of halo
However many years down the line
west silo
Well there's no point where the precursors outright try to teach them differently
@Ado '#9207
Man sound like a parent who whenever there child makes a mistake instead of telling them why its wrong the just clobber them
terse lava
Well apparently the forerunners were adjuncts to the precursors
west silo
And likely never will
@jolly furnace
And people say there's no mystery in halo
west silo
among others
@jolly furnace
To this day we still don't know if that guy got his laser brum
terse lava
Yep, even in the ancient era post forerunner era
west silo
Especially the meddlers
west silo
A very dedicated npc on Meridean in halo 5 he cleans stuff. on a very dusty planet
jolly furnace
Oh
ive barely played halo 5
probably didnt meet the guy when i did meridian mission
west silo
ive barely played halo 5
@jolly furnace
U can watch it on YouTube very funny
delicate notch
What do you think of "Chips Dubbo"?
west silo
That hes secretly a precursor
delicate notch
😄
queen otter
cedar surge
Hello yoda
cedar surge
So if you had a couple million civilians and 2 thousand resist would the created kill them all?
Cause it sseems she doesn't care about civilian deaths at all
west silo
So if you had a couple million civilians and 2 thousand resist would the created kill them all?
@cedar surge
That kinda goes against that whole protect everyone don't ya think
Also didnt dominion splinter confirm that the real cortana is dead and the one in 5 is just a rampant copy
cedar surge
That whole protect everyone thing didn't seem to exist when colonies were getting destroyed
west silo
That whole protect everyone thing didn't seem to exist when colonies were getting destroyed
@cedar surge
Can't make amlets without murdering a few civilians
dense falcon
Could the UNSC Point of no Return stay cloaked around High Charity with its camo panels up and engines at 15%? 👀
terse lava
Seeing as the defense fleet was able to detect objects millimeters in size and vaporize them, I don't see it
cedar surge
You don't see it cause its cloaked
grand iris
Do you guys think that SPI armour should see continuous use by UNSC special forces after 2552 since it's cheaper than Mjolnir but production costs could decrease as time passes by and improvements can be made?
humble yacht
GEN2 already kind of filled that role
Cheaper than gen1 to make and was mass producible
But also improved upon the enhancements from gen1
lethal comet
I think he meant non spartans
grand iris
Yeah for non spartans
lethal comet
spi doesnt need augmentations so probably yeah
grand iris
Since it's successful at what it was being used in and Headhunter SPI was modified with experimental tech like active camouflage and it had energy shielding
humble yacht
Mjolnir also had experimental variants that improved upon previous designs
lethal comet
spi would still only be used by special forces
grand iris
Yeah it would
lethal comet
it cant be produced as easily as marine bdu
grand iris
It would be cool to see SPI ported over to the Mjolnir platform though
vague scroll
on note of the relationship between SPI and MJOLNIR, the GEN2 BUCCANEER shares some physical similarities with depictions of SPI
humble yacht
Pilot helmet is based on SPI
vague scroll
@humble yacht I'm not sure if that assessment is accurate. Halopedia's description on it says its coincidental but I'm not sure that's accurate either. The only thing I could find on a connection between the two was the Reach armor description "Although it bears some similarities to the SPI helmet, they are purely cosmetic in nature."
humble yacht
Based on look wise
vague scroll
oh definitely, I was just remarking on the assessment lore wise
grand iris
Still it's a pretty useful suit for those relying on stealth and it's far easier to put on and transport than Mjolnir
vague scroll
you could use that to say then that if you wanted to create SPI with MJOLNIR to a degree, could probably mix Pilot GEN1 with BUCCANEER body in Halo 5.
humble yacht
Isla Zane should come back with some Buccaneer armor and just ruin everyone’s day
vague scroll
that would be fun
humble yacht
She’d be unstoppable
vague scroll
she's already pretty unstoppable but I like this idea of her as the Halo equivalent of the Terminator
she did a pretty good job of playing the archetype in Hunt the Truth Season 2
that last scene with the warthog was sudden but also a little funny out of context
grand iris
Also, how many spartans from Alpha and Beta company do you guys think are still active since despite 300 perishing during PROMETHEUS and 298 at TORPEDO there are still 197 from Alpha and 118 from Beta unaccounted for since an unknown number from both were removed from the main company
vague scroll
well there were plenty of washouts who never completed training, we have lore mentions that washouts eventually went on to work as DIs for later S-III companies so a relative portion of them probably had to do with that
and yeah you got the pulled-types (cat-2) which could be any sort of number that ended up as NOBLE Team types or Headhunters
grand iris
Think Blue team can be considered or perhaps a temporary cross gen spartan team since several S-III's were absorbed into the team?
humble yacht
Headhunters were incorporated into Spartan Branch
vague scroll
Headhunters were moved into the Spartan Branch yeah
no, Blue Team is kind of a special case given that the IIIs from Veta Lopis's Ferret team were trapped in Treveylan with Blue under extraordinary circumstances
and they only worked together when required during the Gao events in Halo Last Light
grand iris
It kinda feels like the Older siblings being paired up with the younger siblings
And Menendez trained them just like the S-II's
but Kurt was there to train them too
vague scroll
If looking at it that way, I still don't think so but on the pure notion of that they were on the team - Team Sabre being a part o Blue did occur. But generally for me Blue is a pure S-II designation, they're not like NOBLE which was purpose built to include both S-IIs and S-IIIs.
grand iris
Well you are right there since Blue Team was created long before
humble yacht
Noble team wasn’t built to have both SIIs and IIIs
Jorge was not always a part of noble team
versed helm
Think Emile was jealous of his augments?
vague scroll
Jorge wasn't but I'm trying to make a distinction between an actual cross-generation team and a SPARTAN-II team
grand iris
There is little to no difference between the augments of the S-II's and S-III's
vague scroll
in terms of results there was little difference but the method of augmentation was certainly different
versed helm
There is little to no difference between the augments of the S-II's and S-III's
@grand iris Have you even played the game?
grand iris
except the III's had the benefit from more advanced medical tech and their fatality rate from it was 0%
@versed helm Reach?
versed helm
Yes.
grand iris
yeah
versed helm
So you would know how stupid that statement was.
smoky crescent
how controversial is it these days to assert that the only real spartans are spartan-II
grand iris
Reach doesn't explain about their augmentations in the slightest. What do you mean?
vague scroll
IIs augmentations were cybernetic and chemical-based in nature, highly experimental and high chance of failure due to a lot of bypass and health risks - the augmentation was highly invasive requiring the majority of the human nervous system to be removed in favor of cybernetic implants
humble yacht
No game explains how the augmentations work
vague scroll
@smoky crescent pretty superfluous tbh
smoky crescent
spartan-III augs are clearly shown guys come on
the blue liquid goes INTO the body
versed helm
how controversial is it these days to assert that the only real spartans are spartan-II
It's not a good idea, lol.
grand iris
@vague scroll Their fatality rate was 56% right?
vague scroll
@versed helm going to have to go with these guys on this one, Halo Reach doesn't do a good job of showing augs at all
raw moon
plus i wouldnt use gameplay as a basses for how things work in lore
vague scroll
@grand iris something like that
versed helm
Well, you can clearly see that Jorge is very different to the rest of the Spartans.
smoky crescent
i mean spartan-III don't get the giant titanium shinbones and bull moose testosterone implants that spartan-IIs get, so they're much smaller
vague scroll
well that's more of a visual distinction - I think a better item to point them to is the Halo Reach Birth of a Spartan live action trailer
smoky crescent
IIIs are human sized
grand iris
@versed helm He's had time to grow and is in his 40's the others are somewhere in their early to late 20's
vague scroll
IIIs are still bigger than your average human
smoky crescent
at six feet
vague scroll
the majority of NOBLE are about 6'10"
smoky crescent
bull SHIT!
versed helm
Okay, but does that excuse how much bigger he was compared to the rest?
vague scroll
@smoky crescent https://www.halopedia.org/Carter-A259
smoky crescent
nevermind i'm looking at kat a full head and shoulders over some army
versed helm
Carter is older than Jorge, right?
grand iris
@versed helm Jorge is considered one of the largest S-II's
@versed helm Carter is in his late 20's
versed helm
Well, no point in continuing this, I'm just speaking to a brick wall.
versed helm
You don't have to spam me with the tags either.
vague scroll
@versed helm Carter is 9 years younger than Jorge
versed helm
Ah.
vague scroll
and sorry about the tagging
grand iris
My bad too
vague scroll
so I was trying to get back to discussing augmentations
versed helm
Nah, that's fine lol, you tagged me twice, Distant.
humble yacht
If you use chief as the average metric for spartan IIs, Jorge was a giant compared to Chief
vague scroll
the SIII augmentations were far less invasive using chemically-injected cocktails
humble yacht
Like 6 in taller and way heavier
smoky crescent
chief is clean over 7 feet
vague scroll
these cocktails were rather similar to to the concept of rapid steroid and hormonal injections
humble yacht
Only in armor
smoky crescent
yeah armor is what matters
vague scroll
@smoky crescent as Chimera said, 7'2" in armor
humble yacht
Jorge is 7’4” out of armor
vague scroll
on the other hand, you had Sam being described as the tallest Spartan in their youth at 7'4" in armor
humble yacht
Armor added 4 in to Chief height
humble yacht
Check halopedia bruh
grand iris
@vague scroll Think there are more cross gen spartan teams?
humble yacht
Lol
vague scroll
@grand iris yes
smoky crescent
it's just not how armor works
humble yacht
Welp you are brick wall then
vague scroll
given that teams were off handedly mentioned in Reach's New Alexandria level
humble yacht
2 in thick on the bottom of feet, 2 in think on top of head
Sounds pretty reasonable
vague scroll
helmets do come with a lot of extra space to make room for the head and to create crash space between an impact and the skull
so of course he can be 4 inches taller in armor
smoky crescent
yeah but not THAT many inches of space
hold on i'm going to look at master chief feet
vague scroll
you'd be surprised when you're lugging around 1000 pounds of titanium composite
humble yacht
Put on a biker helmet and measure yourself and see how much it adds
vague scroll
it's bigger tbh
grand iris
But one spartan company that was left unknown was Delta Company after what happened at Onyx and Kurt died as well as the formation of the S-IV program
smoky crescent
bigger in size, but more compact
humble yacht
Whut
vague scroll
@grand iris Delta was never trained, and likely never will be in the lore
versed helm
He's using that as an example, motorbike helmets are tiny in comparison, yet they still add a lot of weight, Viper.
smoky crescent
nanomachines...
vague scroll
oh no, don't bring back the memories
smoky crescent
y'all master chief kinda has small feet 😳
grand iris
Do you mean.....Nanomachines Son?
smoky crescent
see he's not 7'2
vague scroll
alright to round out the S-IIs in terms of their gigantism
smoky crescent
did someone actually just delete that
vague scroll
by the time of Halo Ghosts of Onyx, Kurt-051 was 8'2" in armor
grand iris
SPI?
humble yacht
Kurt big boi
vague scroll
@smoky crescent it's a possibility that one of the discordbots deleted your link
funny joke though, I did see the link while it was up
grand iris
Wasn't there an incident where a gamma company spartan saluted Kurt 051 without realizing that his stomach was ripped open by needler shards?
smoky crescent
warden eternal just sent me a scolding DM
vague scroll
end of Ghosts of Onyx, one of the team members from Saber was a dead man walking
Spartans were so pumped on adrenaline they didn't realize they were dead
yeah you got a discord bot then
grand iris
So....he took some real serious punishment and kept on going?
vague scroll
absolutely
grand iris
their extra augment is pretty useful
vague scroll
even humans are capable of inhumane feats in real life in the face of survival, but yeah, Spartan augmentations crank that up to 11
smoky crescent
noble six moment
grand iris
One of them was also killing Jiralhanae with only a knife and Fred praised his skills?
smoky crescent
(spoiler alert)
vague scroll
it's been a decade since I read GoO so I can't remember which one specifically but yes
smoky crescent
have we discussed sangheili ear holes yet
vague scroll
it's been almost a decade since Reach came out, hard to call it a spoiler moment
and I don't think we've discussed Sangheili anatomy but I'm not really sure if there's anything wrong with ear holes? Alligators have a similar thing
smoky crescent
wrong?
okay weatherboy i have a question for you
how could a sangheili drink out of a straw?
grand iris
@smoky crescent that's a pretty interesting question
smoky crescent
do they have a gag reflex?
they must, because they have lungs
so how deep in that throat hole of theirs does that kick in?
humble yacht
One of them was also killing Jiralhanae with only a knife and Fred praised his skills?
Buck did that without any augments
smoky crescent
based
vague scroll
what were you referring to by "wrong?"
tame belfry
@smoky crescent Who says they'd need to drink from straws? Hell, how can they even speak english? They don't have tongues or lips.
vague scroll
I don't think that's well known Herald - given on repeat I keep seeing fan art drawn with tongues...
and the Sangheili in most depictions can speak relatively decent english
only time we've seen a distinction has been in the Traviss novels interestingly enough
because they didn't have lips, they couldn't pronounce the letter P
but at the same time we also know that Sangheili can whistle thanks to Legacy of Onyx
humble yacht
They can’t pronounce P but thel says “spartan” all the time
vague scroll
yeah, it's just one of those things that don't line up...
Traviss being her usual 'I do what I want' self it seems
grand iris
Think the Sangheili in Halo Wars are a variant of their species or the same we have seen so far since they look incredibly huge and defined
humble yacht
Traviss being her usual 'I do what I want' self it seems
Bungie did that too
vague scroll
very true
sometimes I wonder if any of the negative connotations against any of the creators in this franchise is worth it
carmine sleet
Think the Sangheili in Halo Wars are a variant of their species or the same we have seen so far since they look incredibly huge and defined
Compared to normal humans, almost all Elites are larger than us
grand iris
Halo Wars elites were one of the largest i have seen
carmine sleet
Like, the only reason they seem to be a similar size to us in most the games is because we're playing as Spartans, not normal humans
vague scroll
people certainly have negative opinions on how lore doesn't line up but trying to ask everything to be down to the mark seems to approach obsession
feral perch
what do you expect in a fandom tho?
humble yacht
I like consistency too but it’s not like only one person is guilty of inconsistency
You either let it eat you up or you ignore it
carmine sleet
Everyone will make mistakes when working within a universe that either they or many people help craft
humble yacht
It’s weird because on one hand you have portrayals of characters coming from people who aren’t fans of the franchises they work on
Yet they end up being the best version of something
Mark Hamil didn’t read Batman comics yet ended up being the definitive Joker for most people
vague scroll
so then Traviss doesn't deserve the bad reputation that the K-5 trilogy has? Given that a lot of people hate that characters became a author vehicle to deliver a message that went against some fans' understanding of Halsey and characters ancillary to her? Or did/does Bungie deserve the ire of being picky about which of Nylund's work they adapted or threw out to the point a blog site was set up called "Halo Reach is not canon"
It's just a hard line to walk because if you say you like something as a fan, there's detractors on both sides
I know I give K-5 a lot easier time than most fans are willing to do
humble yacht
You can like what you like but saying someone deserves hate or bad rep is pushing it
grand iris
What do you guys think of a Halo spin off game focusing on the Headhunters and the classified missons they are sent on. It would explore the things never meant to be known and would be a stealth game like splinter cell or Metal Gear
You can also decapitate covenant troops and take their head as a trophy
and kill them in brutal ways
carmine sleet
A stealth game would be interesting
explore the things never meant to be known
What's this meant to mean?
You can also decapitate covenant troops and take their head as a trophy
I don't think we need to be taking their heads as trophies
humble yacht
You got some predator in your halo
grand iris
The games never explored the black ops side of things
and Jonah in the headhunter short decapitated an elite
humble yacht
The whole point of wetwork is to leave no trace
Taking a trophy would be a big nono for a mission that’s not supposed to exist
carmine sleet
I remember him stabbing Elites in the short but not outright decapitating one
grand iris
He decapitated the elite and threw it at a grunt
carmine sleet
Ok, I remember the Elite head now
But still, Chimera's right. Last thing you want on a stealth op is to be taking trophies, especially heads of those you killed
smoky crescent
You can also decapitate covenant troops and take their head as a trophy
why do this when i can just chop off one of the mandibles
carmine sleet
Like, the op seen in the Headhunters short was more of a stealthy demolitions op that wasn't all that stealthy given the Jackal they blow up as a distraction to get into the base. It didn't matter so much if an Elite lost their head because the Elite's body would've been destroyed in the explosion afterwards
humble yacht
Well Jonah was also cocky and not very stealthy
carmine sleet
That is also true
grand iris
How about the gameplay that would be like Splinter Cell or Metal Gear?
carmine sleet
Not played either of those games. Not likely to ever touch the former due to stuff that came out about Ubi, tempted to play the latter since I know a little about MGS thanks to Smash Bros
smoky crescent
spartans aren't really built for stealth
it's a matter of "hello, i'm here to kill every single one of you"
carmine sleet
The S-IIs were trained to be stealthy, even with their large bodies and armour. They were never meant as frontline soldiers
smoky crescent
Capable of stealth =/= made for stealth, and the typical downside to getting caught in a stealth game is that you're massively outgunned
Kind of defeats the purpose when, if you're caught, you're still capable of outpacing anything thrown against you
grand iris
It's kinda ironic. The covenant made monsters of the children that became S-III's and now they want payback
smoky crescent
and let's remember the Watts mission went pretty loud pretty quick
vague scroll
what if I told you that there's a Spartan armor that's designed for stealth...
grand iris
Headhunters did use modified SPI
and they had energy shields
@vague scroll Do you mean Warmaster. The variant for S-IV headhunters?
vague scroll
no I just meant SPI
but in a way you could apply some of the tech and advances in stealth that SPI made and apply it to MJOLNIR
there are more than just Warmaster out there with a stealth orientation
but yeah you could say it's for stealth
carmine sleet
War Master-class armor is a multi-use, multi-functional configuration, which, when utilized properly, can benefit the user in almost any combat scenario propagated on the battlefield
From Halopedia. It's not specifically intended for stealth and is more of a "jack of all trades, master of none" armour
smoky crescent
when i say spartans i am speaking explicitly about spartan-IIs
IIs did not use SPI, thus
carmine sleet
Kurt used SPI
And when it comes to looking at the various armour sets, it's odd not to bring up suits in later generations of Mjolnir
smoky crescent
he used the cheap stuff huh 😳
grand iris
He is their trainer
smoky crescent
lame
carmine sleet
Only on Onyx
grand iris
Mjolnir was incredibly expensive during the Human covenant war though. It costed as much as an entire battle group
Assigning it to every single spartan would leave the UNSC bankrupt
vague scroll
it's gotten far cheaper @grand iris
carmine sleet
Only S-IIs and some S-IIIs, such as the S-IIIs of Noble Team (Jorge was an S-II), got access to Mjolnir during the war
smoky crescent
walking tank with a literal nuclear reactor in the back
vague scroll
and for the record, Kurt wore SPI before his death because it was a symbol to his relationship with his S-III students
he wanted it to be clear that he was one of them
and on the other hand, it's much faster to slip on SPI
MJOLNIR requires outside assistance to put on
grand iris
Scientists and engineers to do maintenance on too
carmine sleet
Anyway, back to the point of stealthy armour, Mjolnir Infiltrator is intended for stealth ops
grand iris
Should we seperate them between during human covenant war and post war?
on what armour was available for stealth
vague scroll
they're already split down the line between GEN1 and GEN2 ¯_(ツ)_/¯
cedar surge
If a fully outfitted marine can stand up to a elite how does one stand up to a Promethean?
versed helm
Plot armour.
jolly furnace
I wonder if one can use slipspace jumps or teleportation with such accuracy as to bypass energy shielding on ships or structures or redirect ship weapons fire.
humble yacht
i don't think ships small enough to get under shields are rated for slipspace on their own
We've seen that some Phantoms and Liches can enter slipspace safely but they don't appear to have their own slipspace drives, and rather piggybacked on the route of the Didact's Ship
jolly furnace
I mean I think several small forerunner ships have drives
or at least slipspace teleportation
cedar surge
Yea but they forerunner
humble yacht
yeah, what's a "small forerunner ship" anyway?
we haven't exactly seen examples of small Forerunner vehicles, aside from the phaeton
and that's not likely to be capable of slipspace travel
terse lava
Which itself is likely still a good size. Smallest possible warship would likely be the harriers, as the didact's ship had multiple inside when it left earth in Cryptum. That thing was only 600m long or so
cedar surge
Are there any other reach level colonies of strategic importance?
vague scroll
well, the problem with that question is kind of that Reach was THE colony
first extrasolar world colonized by Humanity, the oldest human colony outside the Solar system
most important military world
jolly furnace
Wonder what AH's one was
their first colony outside sol
Or what forerunners called reach
vague scroll
It's hard to assess but Earth wasn't even the capitol of ancient humanity, Charrum Hakkor was and we've never visited that world since it was mentioned in the Bornstellar trilogy ¯_(ツ)_/¯
given how old ancient humanity's civilization was, along with how old the Forerunner's was - it's all very possible that Earth and much of the early history of the ancient humanity was even lost to humans
in the trilogy it was noted that Forerunner civilization went through several dark periods where entire sections of their history was lost
one such example is why the expeditionary fleet to the Large Magellanic Cloud disappeared for eons only to be rediscovered as abandoned by the Librarian long after
versed helm
Think there's a police variant for the Mongoose?
Also makes me wonder what High Charity's police force would have looked like. If they even had one, lol.
versed helm
No, I was asking if one existed.
old sedge
Hey guys i got some questions about the lore
gilded mason
Yeh?
old sedge
So let me get this straight. Cursor > inheretor > forerunner and humans
pre-cursor*
Because I'm not that familiar with the forerunner and ancient human part of the lore.
I watched a vid of HaloFollower explaining it but there's some questions that i have from that
carmine sleet
Well, there's your first problem, you watched HaloFollower. He's not known for getting things accurate in his videos
opal birch
Never watch Halo Follower
old sedge
I like how i didn't get replies until i mentioned i had watched a HaloFollower video lol
gilded mason
Anyway, the progression is:
Precursors created the Forerunners and humans (and presumably all the other species as well)
carmine sleet
And there is no species called the Inheritors, that's just max rank in Halo Reach
terse lava
Yea the precursors arrived in the galaxy eons ago, created forerunners 15 million years ago and also humans at some point. Forerunnere rebelled 5 million years later
old sedge
sweet okay
marble pilot
Didn't they rebel because the Precursors chose Humans over Forerunners to uphold the Mantle or smth?
delicate notch
Well, either that or because they were afraid the precursors would exterminate them as a failed experiment.
cedar surge
You think the unsc will ever colonize humanities true homeworld?
humble yacht
Earth?
delicate notch
Earth is the original human world, it just had another name iirc(?)
cedar surge
Huh didn't you guys say up there that earth is not the real homeworld?
humble yacht
Isn't Charrum Hakkor the Forerunner name for Earth?
Nope
gilded mason
Erde-Tyrene, was the past name for Earth
marble pilot
Right, got my names mixed up
Thanks for the clarification
I haven't actually read much of the lore around that era in a while
humble yacht
Huh didn't you guys say up there that earth is not the real homeworld?
It is. Homeworld and capital are different
humble yacht
same way how US capital is not where colonists first landed
delicate notch
Having the capital on the homeworld would make it a pretty easy target. I guess old earth was more protected than other planets.
vague scroll
The location of Earth could have been forgotten to humans as well, given how big their empire was as well
Probably unlikely but possible, only way my theory would work there is if the Forerunners apparently remembered
west silo
Wasn't earth one of the first planets humanity lost in the war.
vague scroll
In the Covenant war or Forerunner War?
Forerunner war, gotcha - apparently so
So nevermind about me talking then
west silo
Forerunner war
jolly furnace
Earth is almost certainly humanity's birthworld due to our genetic relation to other species on the planet and our evolutionary history on it. It would be more of an issue if it wasn't our birthworld in Halo. They could have it were humanity evolved on Earth but an even older branch of humanity evolved on a different planet. Like Stargate. It could be handwaved away with Precursor Space Magic.
terse lava
Yea earth was one of the first lost to the forerunners. Wonder how long that battle lasted
delicate notch
The F v. H war was started by humans firing on a Forerunner planet infested by the flood w/o the Forerunners understanding what the Flood was, right?
pallid geyser
so I wanna ask if I understand this right, spartan 4s are not as powerful as 3s or 2s, but have better gear and certin 4s, such as buck, can be as good as a 2 depending on genetics and stuff like that
but most arent
fireteam crimson would also likley fall into the more powerful of the 4s, seeing as its only spartans controlled by the player that are classed as "hyper leathal"
delicate notch
Spartans IV dont have the same genetic trait that Spartans II had.
vague scroll
@pallid geyser all Spartans are considered hyper lethal
as according to the most recent Spartan Field Manual
wary atlas
Thats bs cause only 117 and six were hyper lethal
vague scroll
that's old news, and been retconned
that quotation was only pulled from the Halo Reach Noble Team trailer as well and has never appeared or been mentioned in any other Halo media since
mentions of hyper lethal have since been redefined as any augmented Spartan supersoldier wearing their armor
as for depiction of differences between IIs, IIIs, and IVs - the IVs require more body upkeep due to their more tuned augmentations but otherwise are generally the same. Buck's assessment of the difference between the different Spartan generations is a matter of unreliable narrator and when all put in GEN2 MJOLNIR armor are capable of the same superhuman feats.
craggy sierra
So they no longer read like bad fanfic OCs
vague scroll
pretty much
craggy sierra
Thanks 343. You saved my respect for the chief.
vague scroll
also for the record, the trailer never directly refers to Chief, instead saying "one other Spartan" which is supposed to be implied as the Chief but now is whatever
I've seen my fair share of Spartan OCs from this fanbase that were described as Hyper Lethal as well so I'm happy with the SFM for the update
west silo
Didn't Spartan team shadow take over an entire cruiser in like a few minutes.
That pretty impressive
craggy sierra
In canon chief isn’t even the best spartan
delicate notch
Well he isnt the best in any field, but hes the best median in every field.
Linda is the fastest Spartan, right? Or is that Kelly?
west silo
1337 of course😋
In canon chief isn’t even the best spartan
He's just lucky
@craggy sierra
delicate notch
Well no
He isnt the best in any field. But compared to the fastest, the strongest, the smartest etc. he is exceeding in every field while they are only doing so in one.
No need to be the fastest if you are 3rd or 4rth in everything.
cedar surge
Master chief is number one in one thing though
delicate notch
Leadership?
cedar surge
Destroying other people's property
vague scroll
Chief's defining trait is leadership, his reputation within the ranks of Spartans and outside has always been 'this guy is the best of the best', the living legend even among the legends themselves. Sure he isn't the most talented in an area but he is the defining Spartan and people look to him as de facto leadership, regardless of rank.
As for defined bests - as far as I'm aware there's only really 4 characters that hold distinction records of some sort.
Linda-058 is described as the best marksman, Kelly-087 is the fastest Spartan. Sam-034 was the tallest Spartan until his death at 7'4". The tallest Spartan on record was Kurt-051 by 2552 when he died, in SPI armor he stood at 8'2".
delicate notch
Right, I always boggle up Linda and Kelly ( And Kat, for some reason)
cedar surge
Kurt must have been massive
delicate notch
Kurt could hurt
delicate notch
The battle of Onyx was a d' suicide mission
west silo
Wills death hit me
lethal comet
will and anothere s III whose name i cant remember
cedar surge
I think I heard Kurt ripped a hunter in half right?
west silo
I think I heard Kurt ripped a hunter in half right?
@cedar surge
I was will right before the other hunter gave him a new face
cedar surge
Come down to the hunter spa where they will give you a brand new face free of charge!
west silo
Side effects may include bleeding, dizziness or death
west silo
that must have been painful
@lethal comet
He died instantly if that helps
terse lava
Just like poor holly
lethal comet
still he died due to the heat of the fuel rod
terse lava
Went from a spartan 3, to a melted pile of flesh and metal
lethal comet
holly just dematerialized
terse lava
Felt bad for Ash at that, he clearly had feelings for her
cedar surge
At least they didn't become orange people enslaved to the blue lady
Gotta feel bad for prometheans
I keep hearing about crazy stuff on onyx
Like its somehow bigger than a solar system
How
terse lava
The Dyson sphere itself isn't larger then a solar system. It just stretches out 2 AU from the star
So it's the size of Earth's orbit
As for how, forerunners had pretty much infinite energy to craft such a thing
hardy axle
The guy that went feral on reach
west silo
The guy that went feral on reach
@hardy axle
Who ?
hardy axle
Trying to remember the name
west silo
Linda!
@fair hazel
She's basically halos version of Quiet
hardy axle
Augmentations messed up, turned him into a monster basically and he escaped into the wilds of reach
west silo
Augmentations messed up, turned him into a monster basically and he escaped into the wilds of reach
@hardy axle
No clue
hardy axle
Think it was a short story from evolutions
west silo
Uh, linda's been around for far longer
@fair hazel
I meant in similarity
fair hazel
In what, being amazing snipers?
west silo
Soren? Is that the crippled Spartan who hates hasley
fair hazel
Linda doesn't have these superpowers based on the sun
west silo
In what, being amazing snipers?
@fair hazel
Pretty much
Linda doesn't have these superpowers based on the sun
@fair hazel
No need to be nitpicky
fair hazel
Well, doesn't seem like enough to make that comparaison
cedar surge
So there is a insane spartan on the loose on reach?
remote cedar
hi
cedar surge
Hello
fair hazel
he escaped reach
cedar surge
Uh master chief obviously
You say its inhabited by a ghost but its still a animatronic
hardy axle
Did he escape reach?
remote cedar
yeah freddy fazbear did
cedar surge
And chief is in a suit of 1000 pounds of armor
fair hazel
yes he'll be on the TV show like I said
hardy axle
End of the short story his ship crashes, on reach and they find no body
How do you know that about the show?
I’ve heard nothing about the show
cedar surge
Halo tv show?
fair hazel
By paying attention to the tv show news
hardy axle
And they said soren is off reach?
gilded mason
Yes.
cedar surge
Every time I hear about the show it sounds less promising
west silo
Eh can't be as bad as GOT S8
cedar surge
Covenant raised human?
That's sounds pretty bad to me
It goes straight against the religion to raise a human
hardy axle
A million reasons
cedar surge
If its to gain access to forerunner tech
They can just kidnap one like they've done before
They even had captured marines on HC
hardy axle
Just read about soren in the show, fighting as a gun for high on the fringes of human space. Pretty nuts that they continuing his story
fair hazel
and they may be uncooperative
cedar surge
That doesn't seem to matter
vague scroll
personally the most realistic applications I have considered is that she's either been acquired to make accessing Forerunner tech easier, or as a spy for the Covenant forces - especially against non-aligned human colonies that have traded with the Covenant in the past
it would still be a stretch against the War-era incarnation of the Covenant religion but it wouldn't be the first time the Covenant bent their own rules
cedar surge
All they needed to do was put a humans hand on forerunner tech to make them activate
vague scroll
such as the limited use of artificial intelligence for their ships
cedar surge
Who would even want to raise a human in the covenant
vague scroll
the Sangheili developed a respect for Humanity as the war went on
fair hazel
Not everything is so simple lance
You know the prophets have ordered to do things before right?
west silo
Maybe they use here as a infiltratior to location of human worlds easier
fair hazel
That 'heresy' of modifying weapons for instance
hardy axle
A pet
vague scroll
and there's some really old lore somewhere I recall that Grunts used to pirate human soap operas and watch them
and some Halo 3 era lore regarding Sangheili youth being more open/curious about humans
cedar surge
It doesn't make sense for me. The covenant is out for humanities extermination but they raise a human child
hardy axle
They are billions strong. They don’t all agree on everything
fair hazel
a tool, a pawn. It can make sense
west silo
As a tool
cedar surge
If the covenant needed tools,why not use those innsurectionists who thought the covenant were only going after the unsc
They already have a spy network all over
hardy axle
They did in silent storm
west silo
If the covenant needed tools,why not use those innsurectionists who thought the covenant were only going after the unsc
@cedar surge.
They did ended up betraying them
hardy axle
They fully intended to use the innies for intelligence on UNSC worlds etc in exchange of sparing their worlds...for now.
John messes the meeting up though
cedar surge
Innies really sold out other planets
west silo
They thought the covies only wanted the unsc they thought wrong
cedar surge
Guess that's another reason I don't like them
hardy axle
They were even willing to give the covenant earth but decided to hold that back as the last bit of intel they’d give them.
cedar surge
Traitors the lot of them
gilded mason
Eh, the reasoning given in the book made sense
cedar surge
How late into the war was this even
gilded mason
Like as soon as it started
The Innies in the meeting knew very little of the Covenant's motivation
cedar surge
If it was half way they would have been even more buffoons
The unsc could use this for the propaganda machine
"While the unsc was protecting you the innies were selling you out! Join the unsc today!"
craggy sierra
I mean the UNSC was basically just trying to enforce rule on a bunch of people who didn’t want it
gilded mason
I sympathize with some insurrectionists much more than the UNSC
cedar surge
Sure some innies are better than others
craggy sierra
It’s kinda like what the US did to Vietnam but it wasn’t as embarrassing for the UNSC...yet
cedar surge
But definitely not the ones who nuke millions of civilians
gilded mason
Of course, the UNSC also nuked an entire colony. How do ya feel about that?
cedar surge
Stupid
craggy sierra
The secret in Halo is that everyone’s a bad person
gilded mason
Except the good ol' Swords of Sanghelios.
cedar surge
Ah yes because no one in the SoS killed millions to billions of people
craggy sierra
Arbiter single handedly destroyed dozens of planets in his time
cedar surge
looks at arbiter
gilded mason
Everyone's got a dark past. :^)
cedar surge
ONI bad,unsc bad,innies bad,SOS bad,covenant remnants bad,forerunner bad,flood bad
The only thing that isn't bad is misriah armory
Buy our weapons today!
gilded mason
They arm fascists. :^)
cedar surge
We also arm those cool new Spartans!
Who fight to save the galaxy
Just had a funny thought
ONI asks a kid if he wants to become a spartan 3, the kid complains he wants to be a power ranger
craggy sierra
On behalf of the bad people
cedar surge
You gonna Finnish?
craggy sierra
No that was meant to come after the line “who save the galaxy”
Tbh I think you break Geneva convention when you kill grunts who begin running away.
delicate notch
The Expanse is good.
gilded mason
It is, indeed
delicate notch
Inyalowda
Tho I must say, the last season left a lot to be wanted. Was slow and pretty boring
cedar surge
Wonder if the SoS signed onto any human treaties
gilded mason
I imagine so
craggy sierra
Elites probably have somewhere along the lines given there’s joint research ventures
Probably needed some paperwork for that.
gilded mason
Ye
cedar surge
The imagine of a elite towering over a human signing on a piece of paper is kind of funny to me
last anchor
Crouching down to sign it with those huge fingers.
"Now we do this our way."
Slices hand with ancestral blade and slaps bloody hand print on the paper.
I mean dont lie, that seems pretty Sangheili right?
gilded mason
everyone always slices the hand smh
last anchor
Couldnt come up with anything better really.
gilded mason
lol
lethal comet
I mean dont lie, that seems pretty Sangheili right?
Isn't losing blood outside battle dishonorable
last anchor
for the military yeah.
gilded mason
It's a battle of politics
last anchor
TBH Id be surprised if some things on Sangheilis werent solved using duels
...actually wasnt that in Broken Circle
last anchor
I feel like it was. Honor duels are totally a thing so maybe if things get really heated in a council chamber somwehere some dude just shucks off his cloak and is like "lets settle this the old way!"
And then its just a brawl
delicate notch
I would wish the precursors got into the scene again somehow.
gilded mason
I'd rather they didn't. Them as the Flood was fine enough for me
delicate notch
Well the flood isn't the precursors. They are a corrupted form of them. And I would like to see them as what they actually was
gilded mason
I think Tolkien says it best:
Part of the attraction of The Lord of the Rings is, I think, due to the glimpses of a large history in the background: an attraction like that of viewing far off an unvisited island, or seeing the towers of a distant city gleaming in a sunlit mist. To go there is to destroy the magic, unless new unattainable vistas are again revealed.
delicate notch
Yea, I know. And I know some who feel like that about the Forerunners and how much the Canon says about them @gilded mason
I really appreciated your quote tho :)
gilded mason
👍
cedar surge
How does the covenant view other unsc forces aside from Spartans
Odsts,army,marines, air force and navy
full forge
What did Delgado get up to after Cole Protocol?
lethal comet
Odsts,army,marines, air force and navy
we know that the odsts are imps
spark terrace
can someone tell me if YapYap the destroyer is canon? lol
obsidian thistle
Canon. But with caveats.
spark terrace
lethal comet
first time i have seen proper use of emojis in this server
carmine sleet
I wonder if the Wasp will be the only UNSC flying vehicle we'll drive
Like, I'm glad the thing is getting a chance to return (And seems to be sticking with the exact design from Halo 5 thankfully) but I do wonder if they'll have another
versed helm
In the first cutscene for H2, is Master Guns holding a device used to inject the gel layer for the armour?
vague scroll
when they refer to gel layer, it's a layer built into the suit - it's not injected in
Master Guns was holding a power unit
vague scroll
tbh, I think the power unit and the nuclear reactor are two different pieces
it's hard to believe you can fit a stable fusion reaction in something the size of half a car battery but I digress, that in the realm of Halo it's possible
sharp adder
I hope the falcon from reach comes back
versed helm
Would they still be able to move around if the suit shuts down?
lethal comet
His reactor was heavily damaged during battle of 04 and first strike
versed helm
But it wouldn't kill them?
humble yacht
what wouldn't kill who?
carmine sleet
His reactor was heavily damaged during battle of 04 and first strike
I don't remember that being something during First Strike for Chief
vague scroll
nuclear fusion is more stable than fission
versed helm
If the suit shuts down, that wouldn't crush a Spartan, right?
what wouldn't kill who?
vague scroll
an instability in fission will produce an explosion, fusion behaves like the sun - it runs out of energy, it dies out
Spartan armor maintains a relatively rigid state when powered down @versed helm
humble yacht
If the suit shuts down, that wouldn't crush a Spartan, right?
It would be like 1000-lb weighted clothes
carmine sleet
If the suit shuts down, that wouldn't crush a Spartan, right?
It shouldn't unless the suit shuts down while they were in a situation where the wearer is already in peril
humble yacht
the danger from the armor comes from how much it amplifies strength, moreso than it's weight
vague scroll
think of MJOLNIR as more of a shell than a suit of armor, when the suit powers down, it doesn't crush the user - it just becomes immobile
versed helm
Right, for some reason, I remember the suit having a system that stops itself from crushing the user.
vague scroll
it's the most evident in the TFOR comic and film
lethal comet
I don't remember that being something during First Strike for Chief
@carmine sleet Its mentioned during his fight with the sword elite
on the bridge of ascendant justice
A huragok repaired the shields
versed helm
it's the most evident in the TFOR comic and film
Is that the case though?
vague scroll
in terms of the suit being rigid without an occupant? yes
versed helm
No, I thought you were talking about what I mentioned before, when I referenced the possible system.
vague scroll
oh that, I don't know anything about a built in limiter
there might have been something mentioned for a limiter regarding only Spartans being able to use it but there's nothing to my knowledge preventing the suit from tearing an unaugment user to shreds
humble yacht
Kat had to modifier her armor to allow for sprinting, but Chief was able to push his armor to the point where he broke his leg
so maybe John's mishap led them to add safety features
versed helm
Right, obviously the augments are used to help the user with wearing the suit. However, I still remember a system that reduced the weight that was being exerted onto the wearer.
vague scroll
It was probably mentioned somewhere when Halsey introduced the armor to the Spartan on Chi Ceti IV in TFoR
I just don't remember it but that's not much different from the suit remaining rigid
humble yacht
never heard of the armor distributing it's weight to the spartan doesn't feel it
sounds unlikely to me
vague scroll
the Spartan should still be exerting themselves during the use of the suit but I don't think any Spartan wants to be feeling half a ton pressing down on their back so I think it's just one of those things we've generally taken for granted
versed helm
We also take those Marines for granted. ;-;
The ones who tested the suits before they knew about its flaws.
I cant shake the feeling that the banished, Cortana and the Halo ring are all one big conspiracy for the floods big comeback.
The flood is not defeated, far from it.
carmine sleet
It doesn't make sense to be a conspiracy
Like, what actual evidence is there saying the Flood will be making a big comeback
versed helm
Cortana was infected with the logic plague, spent weeks being tortured by the flood
terse lava
Only evidence we have is the primordial's promise of a flood return, and that still isn't for a while
versed helm
now she has access to the domain, which was also touched by the flood ages ago
carmine sleet
Cortana isn't logic plagued, she wasn't speaking with the Gravemind long enough
versed helm
She was with it for Weeks
terse lava
Also the flood never got into the domain
carmine sleet
It takes much longer than weeks to be logic plagued
humble yacht
it took a much stronger Gravemind 43 years to logic plague Mendicant Bias
terse lava
Eh that varies a bit, monitors and sentinels fell to it instantly when boarding flood ships
carmine sleet
Sentinels aren't exactly "smart"
humble yacht
that was back when the Flood infestation spanned the galaxy
terse lava
But a more intelligent AI like Cortana would take more time
humble yacht
at the galacrtic stage, the flood were so advanced that the logic plague could spread from AI-to-AI contact
terse lava
I am aware thus my comment
terse lava
Ok
versed helm
Oh well there goes my theory out the window lol. Guess I was grasping at straws trying to make sense of the mess that was halo 5 and trying to bring one of the best happenstaces back to the story.
humble yacht
logic plague would make things less logical, not more
jolly furnace
Fully blown flood can subvert any AI via logic plague it seems
sentinels would be subverted via their commanding ancillae being subverted by logic plague
as sentinels are by an large under control of a more powerful ancilla
humble yacht
well, they didn't subvert Offensive Bias
west silo
well, they didn't subvert Offensive Bias
@humble yacht
Its that because he was single minded and didn't listen or respond to any flood transmissions
humble yacht
I think it's because he was created with a singular purpose and lacked the capability of even giving the Flood's argument the time of day
craggy sierra
What exactly was the flood's argument?
humble yacht
He and Mendicant Bias made contact with each other before their final fight, when the flood was at the height of its power, and OB did not catch the plague from MB
The Flood argued to MB that the Forerunner's idealogy was wrong and that the Flood was the ultimate final evolution of life
gilded mason
What exactly was the flood's argument?```
"b cool if u betrayed the forerunners dude ngl"and that resisting them was merely delaying the inevitable
craggy sierra
I mean the forerunners were wrong about a lot of things. Probably not that though
feral perch
the Gravemind peer-pressured MB into lighting up an anti-Forerunner ciggie
jolly furnace
OB likely would have turned if the GM actually got it in the same room with it
Even if it didnt, it could just tinker with its core matrix
or hack it
GM can do stuff like that
Also GM has all the time in well ever
GM told some truths if twisted to MB bout the Forerunners, the mantle, the flood's purpose and humanity's role in its plan among other things
Also MB used domain to verify GM's claims
humble yacht
MB said that his failure, compared to OB, was his capacity to chose the flood
suggesting that OB did not have this capacity
jolly furnace
Also it non-physicially hacked his core matrix i think
We don't know with OB ultimately
Basicially if something is sapient it is suspectible to logic plague. Thats it
humble yacht
i think people give logic plague too much credit
which is part of the reason why I find it an incredibly cheap plot device
west silo
It barely shows up
humble yacht
and yet people treat is as some unbeatable ultimate technique that knows no bounds
jolly furnace
At least that greg bears words on it. if ur sapient ur vulnurable
Doesnt mean u will succumb
but u are not immune
humble yacht
I think people are also misusing sapient vs sentient
did greg bear actually write "sapient" when talking about the plague?
jolly furnace
even the creators mix it up
they use sentient for intelligent races too
and AI
When it should be sapient
Like my dog is sentient
but no sapient
like me
In the context of Halo sentient and sapient are synonymous
gilded mason
Peter David also forgot animals are sentient in Hunters in the Dark. He said in the book that there's wildlife on the Ark because they aren't sentient, so the Halos didn't effect them.
humble yacht
Sapience is wisdom or cleverness. sentient is self awareness, ability to think and feel
gilded mason
Ye
jolly furnace
But in in greg's mind at least, if u were intelligent to a certain degree, u were vulnurable to the logic plague
gilded mason
Well, maybe not self-awareness
jolly furnace
of course logic plague is a term used to describe the many ways flood propagate itself
not just for its software virus variant
some think its only a virus for AI
it isnt
Ur-r[
humble yacht
i wouldn't say it's an aspect of propogation