Awakening the Nightmare is basically that.
#lore-and-universe
clever fable
glad dawn
inside the ship?
craggy sierra
The flood, in 2560, do not have a story. They do not have a character. They just have an angry flesh stick that wants to consume all life.
cedar surge
@craggy sierra "Eventually the Sangheili ships were successful in defeating the Jiralhanae, many of whom retreated to follow Truth's Dreadnought to Earth. The Sangheili subsequently set up a naval blockade around High Charity and Installation 05, with the aim of preventing the Flood from leaving the Coelest system. Despite their efforts, at least one Flood-infested cruiser managed to escape, and it was pursued by the Fleet of Retribution to Earth.[11]"
glad dawn
well didn't know you cant curse
cedar surge
Yes the elites were stopping the flood
clever fable
Very strict rules here @glad dawn , stay cautious with what you type.
craggy sierra
If anything they’re not cool for that reason. Everything you could do with them in terms of a story involving them has been done in the original trilogy.
It would just be derivative of itself for Halo to bring them back in a large capacity.
cedar surge
The story of the flood is over
fervent glade
sometimes you don't need a super complex enemy or story for them.
cedar surge
The last time we see them is in that HW2 dlc
And I'm fine with that
You can't even use the excuse that the unsc accidently released the flood on a installation
fervent glade
I mean it would be awesome if the banished, humans and the swords of sangheillios came together to fight the flood
cedar surge
The unsc is not stupid
clever fable
Individuals can be.
cedar surge
They know how dangerous the flood is
craggy sierra
I mean Halo is a series that kinda set the standard of complex enemy stories pretty high when the second game involved political power plays, the opposition cannibalizing itself, and the elites coming to terms with their false religion.
fervent glade
the banished released the flood in hw2
fervent glade
I don't think they pushed the flood all the way back ever
look how far they spread
craggy sierra
Having any potential future Halo stories be hijacked by the bug scary tentacle that wouldn’t even be able to play a similar role to what he did in the Og trilogy would be pretty boring by comparison.
cedar surge
The flood is boring now
fervent glade
in the final cutscene you see that the flood has already spread miles beyond high charity
cedar surge
Yea and yet you see the Sentinals ignoring that. Why? Because its all dead
craggy sierra
The issue with the flood is that if they appear you have to kinda drop everything to go deal with them. They would only hijack other more interesting plot threads after the war.
cedar surge
The Sentinals are going to put the shields back up on HC
clever fable
Halo Wars 2 DLC plays fast and loose with its representations, Tuff. Can't take every visual from it in the most common sense way unfortunately. See how it treats spores as non-existent for example. Helmets off everywhere. lol
fervent glade
There is no way it's all dead. Millions of infection forms killed that fast? And if it were that easy to kill the flood on high charity then why didn't the sentinels release them and kill them instead of holding them there to sit
cedar surge
Because there is no monitor
fervent glade
believe it or not the monitor is apparently alive
craggy sierra
The flood can also just live on the ark for the rest of time.
wide mulch
Solitude can't guide the sentinels anymore because he got deadifyied in Hunters in the Dark
craggy sierra
The ark never had a monitor, did it?
cedar surge
Why do you want the flood back so much?
clever fable
There are other Keyships on the Ark, I don't think letting them live there is the best idea.
The Ark had a monitor, yes.
gilded mason
The ark never had a monitor, did it?```
It did000 Tragic Solitude @craggy sierra
clever fable
Tragic indeed.
cedar surge
I would deal with big space owls and orange men than see another infection form
craggy sierra
Yes
cedar surge
Reach and odst and 4 and 5 shows you can have a halo game without the flood
Plus too much of a good thing can make you hate it
terse lava
Eh I found promethans boring to fight
clever fable
Same
craggy sierra
Man the flood got 3 chances to be fun to fight and bungled all 3 of them.
Prometheans at least get one more shot
wide mulch
I wouldn't mind the Flood returning, coming back to test Humanity for the mantle. I just hope they bring out a lot of unexplored ideas and environments
Otherwise...
craggy sierra
The mantles is a bad concept that shouldn’t be a goal
clever fable
Doesn't have to be a goal for humanity for the Flood to test them for it. It is an insane amalgamation after all.
fervent glade
I liked halo back when it was aliens trying to kill humanity and the hyper lethal infection
none of this garbage "precursor" junk and the didact
cedar surge
I don't like this "humanity is destined to rule over other races"
fervent glade
all these prometheans and their magic powers
craggy sierra
I really doubt we are
wide mulch
They could explore the blight lands, fight pure forms from either of the halo wars titles, or create something new. I just personally wouldn't mind dipping back into their lore.
terse lava
I just dislike the whole "HUMANITY F YEAH" crap
craggy sierra
Also the mantle isn't a real thing. It's a metaphor that represents head of galactic responsability.
wide mulch
Yeah
cedar surge
Yea I like humanity winning here or there but not us being absolute gods
craggy sierra
And tbh I'd imagine Humanity would either work towards sharing the responsability of the mantle across all races or just not even bother with it at all.
Cause it's kind of a scummy affair.
cedar surge
I hope they reject it
wide mulch
Yeah, the one stole destiny of Humanity would be kinda boring
cedar surge
The mantle is the exact reason why the flood happened
wide mulch
Making a new mantle with the other races would be cool to see
craggy sierra
new mantle?
clever fable
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to find the mantle somewhat abhorrent.
fervent glade
Unggoy mantle and Yapyap was born to attain it. Cannon material right there
glad dawn
prophets for mantle 2020
craggy sierra
I don't think the current matle even exists. Like again, isn't it literally just a metaphor?
wide mulch
A new definition, to rule as a community or alliance, not a sole ownership
craggy sierra
You don't make a new metaphor
gilded mason
More of a governance concept.
craggy sierra
Exactly
terse lava
Problem is the humans were chosen by the precursors for the mantle. Not sure how they would react to humanity just spitting in their face
wide mulch
True
cedar surge
If there wasn't ever a mantle there wouldn't be any flood,forerunners and ancient humanity would still be around,precursors still alive
clever fable
Problem is the humans were chosen by the precursors for the mantle. Not sure how they would react to humanity just spitting in their face
Well it worked well for the forerunners.
gilded mason
"You did it...you passed the test."
fervent glade
the foreunners basically spit in the face of the precursors
craggy sierra
Remind again why we're letting a bunch of 10 million year old dead aliens determine optimal space governance again?
terse lava
And we saw how the precursors took that
wide mulch
XD
fervent glade
yeah
cedar surge
Who in their bright mind would ever think giving a race governance over all other races would end well
fervent glade
they created the most dealy aliens in the universe
clever fable
Super smoothe. Very calm and collected bunch of people.
terse lava
Because said 10 million aliens can mess with space and time
fervent glade
The graveminds coming back eventually.
craggy sierra
Like precursors can choose whatever they want, it doesn't make it smart or sensible or even optimal
clever fable
Graveminds are pretty much inevitable at the rate breakouts are occurring. lol
terse lava
No but what are you going to say to them?
cedar surge
This doesn't seem exactly like a smart decision from a powerful race
craggy sierra
Are there breakouts happening?
terse lava
" we dont want your mantle?"
cedar surge
A few but contained by spartan 4s
fervent glade
(more flood)
craggy sierra
I thought the only flood that were out of the deep freeze existed isolated up on the ark with no way of getting off.
cedar surge
No flood
fervent glade
thats gonna happen if we dont accept the mantle
terse lava
Flood are on other forerunner areas too
craggy sierra
No...it's not
clever fable
I was more so speaking in terms of the breakouts shown in games, but if you mean breakouts more currently, waffle, the Spartan Field Manual says a thing or two about Spartan teams designated to deal with them.
fervent glade
flood are coming back. You can't lock them away forever
craggy sierra
Remind me again how rejecting a certain concept of governance = space zombies returning?
fervent glade
Who's to say there are no flood outside of the galaxy?
cedar surge
Found the gravemind
craggy sierra
THE MANTLE IS A CONCEPT
fervent glade
The precursors became the flood
wide mulch
The mantle was still made though @craggy sierra
clever fable
Oh boy
wide mulch
Even as a concept
fervent glade
yeh
craggy sierra
Like this is like saying socialism is going to somehow stop earthquakes from happening
cedar surge
They don't care about the mantle. They just want to infect
fervent glade
The flood are probably out of the galaxy collecting biomass from distant alien planets and will soon return and be so dang big their gonna be unstoppable
craggy sierra
Or their non-existance
cedar surge
Its like a guy who tries to stop a nuke by saying he accepts capitalism or another concept
craggy sierra
Great if anything humanity alone is the least equipped faction to deal with them
fervent glade
no faction outside of prometheans can deal with the flood
cedar surge
I'm now seeing why that guy says the flood are boring
fervent glade
I doubt their "gone forever"
craggy sierra
No but gone until long after Halo canon ends hopefully. I.E. in like the year 10,000
clever fable
I'm up for another.
wide mulch
Same
fervent glade
the flood is probably gonna come back in infinite somehow
craggy sierra
Cause lets face it. The flood, are just an apocalypse. Their return would literally just mark the end of Halo's universe
We do not have the means to stop them
terse lava
Halo can for a time, survive without the flood sure. But they are still popular enough
fervent glade
there could be huge legions of flood out in the universe somewhere
cedar surge
So trilogy after trilogy will have the flood ad the big bad?
fervent glade
maybe
craggy sierra
And if anything we shouldn't have had the means to stop them in H3 but there was just so many plot conveniences handed out to make that game play out as it did it's not even funny
wide mulch
We're just saying we'd like to see 'em again
cedar surge
I'm not. I hated fighting them
fervent glade
the flood killed the forerunner's which are definitely the most powerful army in all of halo
craggy sierra
And that's why they should stay gone
cedar surge
Don't you mean faction?
fervent glade
yeah faction
They had much more advanced tech and larger numbers than the covenant and humanity put together
craggy sierra
And that's why they should stay gone
fervent glade
Thats also why they wont
clever fable
Imagine not knowing that the Grunts are and always have been secretly amassing the most powerful force of interstellar fleets since the Forerunners themselves.
cedar surge
Its boring to fight a enemy when you know they are just coming back
craggy sierra
They literally can't have anymore interesting stories written about them
clever fable
It's fiction, not physics. Doesn't have to be so absolute.
cedar surge
Move on from the flood. We have so much lore about them. Create new aliens and factions
craggy sierra
you could right an interesting story about the flood
You got any ideas?
cedar surge
I want to see what aliens 343 has in mind
opal birch
I don't think they should be in Infinite's narrative, there's already a bunch of stuff that's probably going on in Infinite that we don't need the space zombies to also get thrown into the mix.
craggy sierra
Because all I can see is them ending the universe and by proxy putting an end to all the other interesting stories Halo could be telling in their place
clever fable
All good stories have an end. :^)
fervent glade
yeah I do. Would if the flood came back as a space faring race with their own ships and new pure forms and it turned out that the mantle of responsibillity was not about defeating the flood permanantly but about holding them off like the shield of the galaxy
clever fable
Yeah, Flood wins, GG. What way to send it off.
fervent glade
theres your new flood story
cedar surge
The flood arnt a race
cedar surge
New pure forms are not a story
fervent glade
You can't confirm that can you?
Who says the flood can't construct things for their own use?
opal birch
Flood only get to the point if they infect a lot of life
craggy sierra
How bout this instead
cedar surge
Have we ever seen once the flood building their own ships?
fervent glade
not yet
opal birch
Halo lore says that they can't
fervent glade
because they never became that unified or had enough biomass to become that intelligent
cedar surge
You can't say "you can't confirm that can you?" And once disproves say not yet
opal birch
They nearly consumed the Milky Way
fervent glade
halo lore says the didact cant be composed but he is composed
clever fable
We've seen things suggesting they aren't just limited to stealing, but nothing that ever had them building entire ships from scratch.
craggy sierra
How bout instead of the flood coming back from outside the galaxy, we instead have an alien race that is capable of things like diplomacy and nuance instead of just the space zombies that want nothing more than to eat us. Even then I don't think Halo is anywhere close to needing new species yet to expand the scope.
So the opposing faction could at least have character
clever fable
Nah, I want a new species/multiple species asap.
cedar surge
I want halo to be more than just fighting the flood over and over again
fervent glade
The covenant didn't have character in CE outside of "the gods want us to fire the rings"
we still loved the covenant in ce
clever fable
Been not fighting the flood for over a decade now minus ATN.
craggy sierra
Nah, I want a new species/multiple species asap.
I feel like Halo hasn't even really begun fleshing out what species and relationships it currently has
cedar surge
We been mostly seeing the human side
fervent glade
Halo humanoids are better than star wars ones
cedar surge
Oh yea
fervent glade
they are more unique
craggy sierra
Also the covenant were about on par with the demons from DOOM in CE in terms of complexity and my attachment to them
cedar surge
Elites are better than any star wars alien
craggy sierra
H2 came in and actually made them interesting
cedar surge
The flood can also be dumbed down to space zombies
craggy sierra
You are over-estimating how much stock people probably put in CE's narrative in a vacuum
fervent glade
yeah they can but they are still not that generic
clever fable
I think Halo has definitely begun fleshing them out, but I just don't find much of them interesting. Jackals are almost entirely one note, the best parts of Brutes are when they aren't acting like stereotypical brutes, and Elites have gotten plenty of attention.
Give me more Broken Circles, sure, but I want something else.
cedar surge
A SoS story maybe?
clever fable
Best thing about a company as big as 343i is that I can have both.
It's not one or the other.
clever fable
True.
craggy sierra
The issue is that the covenant evolved beyond just the vague alien evil force into a series of political scanadals, religious upheaval, and eventually an era of co-operation where the aliens began working with humanity as allies. The flood by comparison evolved from a vague alien evil force into...a vague alien evil force that has the voice of Dr. Claw from inspector gadget and only tells you about how he's going to eat you.
cedar surge
yea the flood was never that complex
clever fable
I'm totally down with more vague alien evil force.
fervent glade
lol "only tells you about how he's going to eat you."
thats actually a funny sentence
my point is in ce alone. not in halo 2
craggy sierra
If all of Halo remained as simple as CE's story telling I doubt as many people would have latched on to its universe
fervent glade
their both pretty much equal in terms of complexity in ce
things got more in depth and deep after ce
cedar surge
I don't think anybody really got attached to the covenant until halo 2
fervent glade
thats for sure
craggy sierra
And this conversation is about the impact of the flood on the universe as a whole and what their return would mean in the greater narrative scope
fervent glade
I did
craggy sierra
I did not
fervent glade
In ce I liked the covenant more than the UNSC or Chief
I still like the covenant more than chief
craggy sierra
Hell I entered the series on H3 and didn't get attached to them until H2 because H3 is the worst game to enter the series on
fervent glade
Alot of people prefer chief over the covenant
They think he is much cooler because of all the cool stuff he did
craggy sierra
tbh I wanna see chief stop being a protagonist after Infinite
Wow it sounds like those people have attribute characters to teaspoon deep shallow surface level reads and don't even care about the greater context of the universe
fervent glade
yeah
cedar surge
You can't really compare liking a person to liking a country
craggy sierra
I like Dr.Lance more than North Korea
cedar surge
That's like saying I like America over Genghis Khan or whatever
fervent glade
Covenant aint a country
craggy sierra
They're a faction that is pulled together under a shared political and religious idealism.
They're pretty much a space country
opal birch
^
cedar surge
How exactly is the covenant not a country?
clever fable
Halo 3 is out now
opal birch
They have a government dude
fervent glade
yeah
craggy sierra
Countries have been formed by religious ideologies before
fervent glade
they don't own territory do they?
cedar surge
They do
opal birch
yes they do
fervent glade
They just take species from certain planets that the covenant don't own
opal birch
The Covenant is Theocracy
cedar surge
They are a coubtry
craggy sierra
I'm pretty sure the civil war in H5 was about trying to clear out the last covenant holdout on Sanghelios. They definitely owned planetside territory.
cedar surge
In every way the covenant is a country not a religion
fervent glade
I always thought the covenant just owned ships and vehicles but no planets. Instead of owning planets they just worked with planets owned by an indiviual species
who gave them resources
cedar surge
They did
opal birch
they take those planets by force
cedar surge
The covenant conqured other races
fervent glade
Are you sure they don't more or less take the species occupying the planets?
cedar surge
They are a empire
vague scroll
the Covenant have hundreds of colonies, many we don't even know the names of
fervent glade
I thought they forced the species to work for the covenant but let them own the planets
vague scroll
many Halo novels go into detail about colonies across Covenant space
gilded mason
They control many thousands of planets, not all of 'em are gonna have native sapient species on 'em.
cedar surge
Multiple colonies the covenant have
fervent glade
okay
opal birch
The planets belonging to their member species are part of the Covenant Empire
cedar surge
They glassed the grunt homeworld
terse lava
No, the covenant control a vast portion of the Oriin Arm. They hold entire star systems and forerunner installations
terse lava
They partly glassed it
fervent glade
yeah during the rebellion
cedar surge
That didn't exactly make it better
terse lava
Yea
vague scroll
well, it did pacify the Unggoy
fervent glade
they saved the unggoy
cedar surge
I'm surprised they didn't fight harder in anger
vague scroll
violence tends to beget violence
oh the unggoy were extremely vicious
they didn't start rebelling because Balaho was glassed
the Covenant were forced to glass the planet to end the rebellion
fervent glade
unggoy should have kept going
cedar surge
The grunts were fighting hard already before their planet were glassed. That should have made them angry and fought harder
vague scroll
the rebellion started when the Kig-Yar tried to forcefully sterilize the Unggoy breeding facilities on High Charity
fervent glade
the lives lost on their homeworld are far outnumbered by the lives lost in covenant service
you would think the covenant WOULD punish the Kig-yar for trying to get rid of their bullet sponges/ laborers
cedar surge
The unsc nearly wiped out the grunts,jackles, and skirmishers
vague scroll
at the time Kig-Yar and Unggoy were competing in the same caste level in the Covenant
fervent glade
Apparently the covenant didn't have the resources to fight the Humans at one point
vague scroll
it was a do or die situation as the client species justified it to themeslves
terse lava
Fun fact, Ord Casto, the future prophet of truth was a junior staffer at the time who said the kig-yar should be punished for that.
gilded mason
The unsc nearly wiped out the grunts,jackles, and skirmishers```
? Not even close.^
cedar surge
Huh
vague scroll
Jackals/Skirmishers were never threatened with extinction
craggy sierra
Idk if the UNSC has ever even targeted anything directly at any of their home planets
cedar surge
You sure?
terse lava
Where are you getting this info Lance?
gilded mason
We're sure
terse lava
The covenant vastly outnumbered the whole of humanity
vague scroll
only the Unggoy received such a predicament but that was on their homeworld because of the rebellion, Balaho was already going through it's own rapid industrial decline when they were discovered by the Covenant
terse lava
That decline had been going for 100,00 years
cedar surge
Could have sworn I heard multiple times that the skirmishes went nearly extinct at reach
terse lava
They had to guard borders, handle heretics/pirates
craggy sierra
That was just Bungie writing so ignore that
fervent glade
at about 10 minutes into that video they say it
gilded mason
That came from a gaming magazine that misinterpreted what Bungie said in an interview.
vague scroll
@fervent glade that's more flavor text than anything, though at this point it's hinted at that Atriox was the other threat to the Covenant other than Humanity
terse lava
They couldnt throw everything they had at humanity
vague scroll
Game Informer to be specific
terse lava
It wasnt even the Banished
cedar surge
Huh
fervent glade
so the banished are the reason the covenant didnt have enough machines to beat humanity?
vague scroll
well ultimately it was flavor text, no one really knows what the 'other threat' was
terse lava
No
gilded mason
No. Banished came about near the end of the war.
fervent glade
they didnt mention another threat
cedar surge
I wonder if 343 will ever pull that humanity has a subspecies thing
queen otter
You sure?
The skirmishers were.
fervent glade
they said "The war with the humans will require a great deal many more machines than we can currently muster"
gilded mason
It was something like:
"We should devote more troops to fight the humans."
"And leave us defenceless?!"
fervent glade
no
craggy sierra
idk how to read that as not implying something race-ey lance
cedar surge
What?
vague scroll
@queen otter that was a misconception, there are plenty of Skirmisher characters running around in the post-war
craggy sierra
I wonder if 343 will ever pull that humanity has a subspecies thing
vague scroll
Halo: Escalations features quite a few
terse lava
Ripa: I will take what we have!
Regret: And leave us defenseless?!
fervent glade
yeah
vague scroll
right, it was flavor text, we don't actually know what the pretense was
fervent glade
so the covenant aren't much bigger than humanity
cedar surge
I meant like stuff like 343 making the redisings of the covenant spevies and calling them subspecies
fervent glade
at least at that time
gilded mason
so the covenant aren't much bigger than humanity
They were.
terse lava
Ripa wanted to take the entire covenant navy to wipe out humans
vague scroll
the Covenant were much bigger, essentially the issue is that there are a lot of writers for Halo
fervent glade
how much bigger could they have been if they didnt have enough tech to defeat the humans?
vague scroll
writers tend to write things as the conceptualize it
cedar surge
I didn't mean to make anything race y
terse lava
They had enough tech
vague scroll
so underneath all this lore, there are more than a few holes
fervent glade
idk
vague scroll
there are just things that haven't been explained
terse lava
But they also had other duties
vague scroll
or have been poorly explained
fervent glade
the prophet of regret said it and he knows how much tech the cov has
terse lava
No he doesn't
fervent glade
so if he says it then its probably true
vague scroll
Regret is still a character, he says whatever the writer says he says
craggy sierra
how much bigger could they have been if they didnt have enough tech to defeat the humans?
Well they never lost because of tech. They lost because they caused a civil war that cannibalized their own faction and wound up losing their equivalent of the Mass Effect citadel to the flood.
terse lava
The covenant could loose entire systems from records before finding them again decades later
vague scroll
Ensemble Studios wasn't exactly collaborating with Bungie to ensure that their lore was air tight
fervent glade
It feels inconsistant
vague scroll
thats because it is
cedar surge
T@terse lava sounds like the IoM
terse lava
A little bit
fervent glade
they clearly have the fleets to demolish humanity during reach so what happened between wars and reach that turned their efforts around?
gilded mason
I still want my story of a Covenant colony finding out humans exist and that there is no "Covenant" anymore, dang it!
fervent glade
maybe they ramped up production because of humanity
vague scroll
nothing happened, it's just a much bigger war - Regret wasn't even aware Earth was the human homeworld when he invaded
the ships that attacked Reach were elsewhere
cedar surge
Maybe 343 is preparing to show another new alien faction that's full of new aliens that are also fighting cortana
Unlikely but maybe
vague scroll
that's why we have these massive fleets that get mentioned at the Battle of Onyx and during the book First trike
The Fall of Reach and Battle of Earth were only about a month apart
fervent glade
Hopefully their introduced properly and not shoved down your throat halo 5 style
terse lava
Let's not forget something in here
vague scroll
oh yeah, hey guys, I didn't greet you @terse lava @gilded mason long time no see btw
gilded mason
Yo.
terse lava
The covenant were capable of sending out thousands of warships to deal with humanity. They did this in the first year of the war. The problem was they didnt know how large humanity was. Thus Regret's statement
Greetings Tide
cedar surge
Thousands?
terse lava
Yes
vague scroll
thousands indeed
terse lava
Thousands
cedar surge
Of it were thousands shouldn't have They steamrolled humanity faster?
terse lava
20 of which were far larger then assault carriers
fervent glade
so the reason they said it is because the over-estimated the size of humanity?
vague scroll
the nice thing of the Cole Protocol was that the Covenant didn't know where the human worlds were to begin with so they had a hard time to amassing fleets and forces to steam roll humans to begin with
space is a big place
gilded mason
Indeed
terse lava
They knew at first, from human computers
Then the Cole protocol
Thus the war dragged on
cedar surge
Yea it seems like halo acknowledge it
vague scroll
to put this in a nuanced way "we made it very hard for them to find us"
fervent glade
whats the cole protocol again? I forgot
terse lava
If that had not happened, war would have been over in a few years
cedar surge
@fervent glade a protocol to stop covenant from finding human worlds
fervent glade
thanks
vague scroll
Cole Protocol is a law created by Admiral Cole in the mid point of the war enforcing that ships captured by the Covenant were to purge their nav logs and their AIs
to prevent discovery of human worlds
cedar surge
Stuff like blowing up about to be captured ships
opal birch
^
fervent glade
thank you tide
vague scroll
this also involved slipspace jumping randomly until they knew Covenant ships were pursuing them
cedar surge
In not sure who is cooler. Cole or keyes
terse lava
Nizat
opal birch
UNSC takes OPSEC really seriously
vague scroll
Nizat is the coolest
terse lava
Yes
cedar surge
Who?
vague scroll
Sangheili introduced in the new Denning books
cedar surge
Is that a unsc admiral?
terse lava
Nizat 'Kvarosee
cedar surge
Huh
terse lava
He was the fleetmaster in charge of wiping out humanity right at the start of the war
cedar surge
Oh
terse lava
Just months in
vague scroll
one of the major Covenant fleetmasters in the early war and something of a prophet about how the Covenant War would play out
not a prophet like san'shyuum but he was a bit spot on how he expected things to turn out
terse lava
Eh kinda? His fears were never realized
vague scroll
they came pretty close as I recall
vague scroll
I can accept that distinction, yeah
fervent glade
Juul Mdama is my favorite elite
vague scroll
Jul'Mdama has a well set origin story, not really a personal fan of how he plays out in Escalation of Halo 5 though
fervent glade
He was trying to save his species from ONI who thought the elites were too dangeous to be left alive
cedar surge
If the war had continued without flood and forerunner interference,how much damage could the infinity on the run do to the covenant?
gilded mason
Yeah. He had good potential
terse lava
None at all
fervent glade
halo 5 kills him in less than 10 minutes
vague scroll
probably not that much @cedar surge
fervent glade
and his guards look like melon heads in his death scene
cedar surge
Nothing like producing nova bombs to attack colonies?
vague scroll
humanity doesn't know where many Covenant worlds are to begin with
NOVAs were pretty limited during the last year of the war
we only know of two uses
and they were kind of brand new as well in 2552
gilded mason
And they stiiiink
fervent glade
Anybody here think Halo 5 story is bad mostly because of all the outside material you need to read/watch before you understand whats happening?
Thats my biggest problem
cedar surge
One nova near high charity would be effective
vague scroll
I'll be honest, Halo 5's background lore was my favorite part
gilded mason
Even if you read the outside stuff, it still doesn't make sense
vague scroll
the story itself was weak in general
terse lava
Yep
vague scroll
you couldn't rely on outside stuff to tell you the story
fervent glade
people in general chat last week protested otherwise saying its story was great
terse lava
Nothing hinted at Cortana popping up or any guardians in the forerunner trilogy
Well good for them
fervent glade
I understand oppinions but how can you be so blind?
cedar surge
Does the unsc even produce the nova anymore?
vague scroll
it's fine, people are entitled to their opinion
terse lava
They may make more
vague scroll
I love Halo 5's worldbuilding tbh
Sanghelios is pretty cool, I would have liked more levels like Meridian Station and Swords Base Camp
fervent glade
I played it and the first thing I thought when I beat it was "What did I miss? A whole halo game?"
vague scroll
I liked the parts where you just walked around and talked to everyday characters in the world
fervent glade
The Kig-yar speaking English is neat but why do they sound so goofy?
vague scroll
I never liked that part of the lore
@terse lava
all the aliens speaking english sound goofy
cedar surge
I think a elite not taking medicine is kinda stupid
vague scroll
I have more than a few friends that hate the sound of Unggoy in Halo 5's warzone/campaign modes/Yapyap in HW2
cedar surge
They are honorable not idiots
gilded mason
Ha, that sangheili declining medicine```
Such is the life of a backwater hick.bloodletting used to be a common sickness treatment
cedar surge
Vaccines makes you a spartan
fervent glade
@gilded mason I keep thinking your picture is Juul Mdama's assistant
gilded mason
lol
terse lava
Ha
vague scroll
'idiotic' is circumstantial to the era
terse lava
Gek?
gilded mason
Orta's a proud member of the Swords.
fervent glade
is that the elite in your picture?
terse lava
FOR CLAN AND KIN
gilded mason
Ye
vague scroll
Isn't Orta an OC?
gilded mason
Ye
fervent glade
cool
cedar surge
Have we only been in the Orion arm?
gilded mason
Orta 'Rakom is his name!
vague scroll
yeah everything is in the Orion arm except some Halo stuff @cedar surge
terse lava
Not sure I understand Tide
vague scroll
I have problems with Gek as a character
fervent glade
Hopefully halo infinite has a Star wars battlefront game mode but with halo characters and vehicles
terse lava
The only ones who left the Orion arm are the forerunners, and possibly covenant
vague scroll
mostly the flavor background text stuff to be fair
cedar surge
If the covenant can reach that far how are they still only in the Orion arm?
gilded mason
and possibly covenant
Mostly scouting missions.
vague scroll
because the Orion Arm/Spur is a massive place
terse lava
@gilded mason Let my dream!
vague scroll
"The Orion Arm is a minor spiral arm of the Milky Way Galaxy that is 3,500 light-years (1,100 parsecs) across and approximately 10,000 light-years (3,100 parsecs) in length, containing the Solar System, including Earth." - Wikipedia, quick search
terse lava
I support the idea.of far flung covenant military outposts beyond the srm. Just s few though
gilded mason
That way story potential is preserved
cedar surge
Oh yea
Then we can just use the excuse "they were in another arm" so we can get more factions
terse lava
And Tide.if you want to vent about Gek, dont think anyone will stop you
gilded mason
Yeah, I don't think anyone here really cares about Gek.
vague scroll
I don't like that he's the only known character to escape Midnight Facility
fervent glade
whats gek?
vague scroll
a place that's supposed to be inescapable
terse lava
Jul's right hand
fervent glade
oh
vague scroll
Gek is the armorless Sangheili you see in H4: Spartan Ops
gilded mason
He bribed the guard's dog with a bone.
fervent glade
thats his name
vague scroll
oh we're not allowed to use that, got it whoops
terse lava
Hm?
fervent glade
nasty words
terse lava
Curse you filter! Curse youuuu
fervent glade
naughty naughty
vague scroll
not really but it's distasteful for the discord rules so moving on
cedar surge
Wonder if the unsc could crash the covenant market
terse lava
No
vague scroll
I mean, they don't exactly trade @cedar surge
cedar surge
I have learned the answer is always no
gilded mason
I mean, they don't exactly trade
Sure they do.
terse lava
Humanity could do utterly nothing to the Covenant
vague scroll
well, post war but I mean, it's not like it's a major trading highway or something...
gilded mason
They have currency, and Thel talks about the Vadam harbor bringing in profits.
cedar surge
Well they did manage to assassinate prphets
full forge
@fervent glade The jackals sound funky because they're based off an avian species; bird squawk weird
gilded mason
Oh, wait
terse lava
I will give them credit though. Humanity was superior to the Covenant in one respect
gilded mason
Did you mean Covenant <-> UNSC?
terse lava
They died faster
vague scroll
yeah, i think that was the question @gilded mason
gilded mason
Ah
vague scroll
I could be wrong, no clue
gilded mason
It'd make sense if they did trade.
vague scroll
if you're confused, I wouldn't be surprised if I got confused too
full forge
@terse lava peabrain covie tacticians < megamind chad UNSC strategists
cedar surge
@terse lava yoh forget another thing humanity is better at than the covenant
Climbing ladders
full forge
@cedar surge Apparently brutes and grunts can manage that fine.
terse lava
No one knew i was doing a Doctor Who reference?😔
gilded mason
Mainly an issue only for those with digitigrade legs
full forge
Like the Jackals. And the Elites.
vague scroll
grunts are on average 5 feet tall so I wouldn't put it passed them
cedar surge
And skirmishers
vague scroll
they're also stronger than the average human
terse lava
Yep
gilded mason
Yeah, being able to rip limbs off is some massive strength.
vague scroll
crab-monkeys 😛
cedar surge
Suprised ONI didn't try to bomb sanghelios to oblivion and pin it on a covenant remnant
vague scroll
kind of hard to do, and if the Arbiter is killed, the former Covenant will be without a figurehead to defend humanity on their behalf
Arbiter's death makes it easy for anti-human radicals to appear out of the woodwork again
fervent glade
I want a Halo game about an elite, brute or skirmisher during the human covenant war
vague scroll
we did get Halo 2, I wouldn't say it's 'impossible'
gilded mason
Arbiter's death makes it easy for anti-human radicals to appear out of the woodwork again```
Though I should hope Thel filled his leadership positions with those that actually agree with his ideals and support carrying them on should he perish.Usze Taham's pretty cool
cedar surge
We should get a SoS comic like the banished got
full forge
He gets on with those mucky little humans pretty well.
vague scroll
Sangheili are people too, there's always a chance that Arbiter's allies could turn into enemies of humanity at any moment
fervent glade
I don't wanna play as a huge important character like the arbiter with a really important part in the plot of halo 2. I wanna be a regular soldier of the covenant who doesn't have to save the whole covenant
cedar surge
Rise of vadam?
gilded mason
We should get a SoS comic like the banished got
Full length novel!
full forge
thel more like
"sorry i killed all those billions of humans, i'm a good guy now really"
terse lava
Hey, at least he wanted to atone
vague scroll
the funny thing about ceasefires, you do them because you don't want to talk about responsibility...
fervent glade
"We were bad, but now we are good"
cedar surge
Hey guys do you agree or disagree with "alien ships should look like they were built by other humans"
fervent glade
No
full forge
#thecovenantdidnothingwrong
fervent glade
other species have other cultures and other planets have other resources and materials
cedar surge
#exceptgenocide
fervent glade
and different physics depending on planet size and location relative to the nearest star or planet
vague scroll
humans still NOVAed two Covenant worlds, if human and Covenant start discussing war reparations, well - it would be a very interesting, possibly colorful conversation
cedar surge
It was a video of spacedock criticizing sci fi ships and saying alien ships should look like other humans built them. He even critizies halo for this
Saying the designs are generic
vague scroll
he's one guy, there's room for more than one take on design in the world ¯_(ツ)_/¯
full forge
2 nova bombed worlds < 76 planets reduced to glass
vague scroll
Spacedock probably does a better job of explaining his point in whatever video essay he spoke on the topic but I'm not going to lambast him for taking a certain position
@full forge at least those glassed colonies can be reterraformed
cedar surge
Yea I don't agree at all
fervent glade
Heck a few hundered years ago HUMAN nations had extremely varied armor for their soldiers
cedar surge
They are called aliens for a reason. They are not us
terse lava
Wort
full forge
@vague scroll Yeah, that's going so well for the people of Meridian.
fervent glade
wort wort
vague scroll
Halo Reach's epilogue shows the fruit of the labor
full forge
And you can't resettle a colony if everyone's dead.
fervent glade
Vehicles nowadays are very diverse from country to country
vague scroll
terraforming has always been a costly business but a necessary one for humans
fervent glade
Imagine planet to planet
gilded mason
I wouldn't say that. By going in on being allies, Thel has connected his faction to the UNSC. Trade, scientific endevours, military missions, etc. And those that support him would also support these actions, otherwise they'd never join in the first place. And if they suddenly decided to attack, that'd throw everything away for no reason.
cedar surge
Tell that to new alexandria@full forge
full forge
New Alexandria was glassed with the rest of Reach, wasn't it?
fervent glade
they did
cedar surge
Oh wait
fervent glade
Reach was re-inhabited
cedar surge
Meant new pheonix
vague scroll
@gilded mason I'm thinking more in the time of Thursday War, in 2553 right after the ceasefire was signed
full forge
New Phoenix is on earth, that's very different.
And nothing was really even demolished.
vague scroll
when Thel's alliance wasn't so secure
terse lava
And also forerunner related
cedar surge
What about those glased colonies that are being unglassed
full forge
Not every colony is being reterraformed.
Because there's just not enough humans left alive to settle them.
vague scroll
Reach has an active population of around 200,000 people as of 2557 working in the reterraforming business
full forge
Humanity lost I think 60% of it's population in the war?
vague scroll
it's likely to be the earliest colony to be reclaimed from glass tbh given its significance
numbers are really hazy @full forge
cedar surge
Oh reach is being. Unglassed?
vague scroll
yes
cedar surge
Huh from what I heard it was just left alone
vague scroll
@full forge I00 and Halo Canon did a collab video where they tried to guestimate but there isn't really any number to go off of
not really anyway, nothing concrete
cedar surge
Yea I think it was 50 billion their estimate
full forge
39 billion humans - 23 billion
cedar surge
39 billion humans dead
vague scroll
yeah, Veronam's numbers sound closer to what they mentioned if I recall correctly
even then I'd take it with a grain of salt
population numbers have always been a fragile thing in Halo
cedar surge
So you don't agree that humanities population should be near a trillion?
Saw some people saying it on waypoint
vague scroll
Reach had somewhere around 700 million people before the Fall. Earth had supposedly 10 billion before the Battle of Earth, according to the Halo 3 Beastrium the population got down to 200 million after the battle, by 2557 its back up to 7.9 billion in Halo: Warfleet
numbers are all over the place
cedar surge
Well yea
full forge
No, 23 billion dead.
vague scroll
people on waypoint are just like us, they really don't know anything
cedar surge
Evacuated prople
vague scroll
to go from 10 billion down to 200 million is a big jump
and then back to 7.9 billion
cedar surge
It would be very impressive if the unsc managed to evacuate 10 billion people
vague scroll
it sounds rather unrealistic
gilded mason
Yeah, evacuating several billions of people in such a timespan is just not possible physically.
cedar surge
And only leave 200 million
full forge
those humans sure do breed a lot
vague scroll
but what can you do? it's a big franchise, mistakes are going to happen
full forge
@vague scroll That's what the "halo bible" is for. Referencing statistics like that. By design, we do not have access to it.
gilded mason
and then back to 7.9 billion
I wonder if this part was because 343 didn't want humanity to be in such a bad position for what they had planned.
cedar surge
I'm kinda realising the created are just unglassing planets for free
vague scroll
everything I've come to learn about Halo, the Halo Bible isn't as impressive as you think it is
full forge
@cedar surge wym
vague scroll
I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up throwing a lot of it out
full forge
I didn't say it was impressive, I was just saying there is something in place where every author can reference statistics.
Karen Traviss is notorious for not utilizing that sort of tool, however.
vague scroll
many inaccuracies from Halopedia made it into the Halo Encyclopedia which in 2011 was considered a definitive source so someone over at the worldbuilding team that was hired by 343i and Microsoft to get the Bungie mythos in order inevitably made some mistakes
cedar surge
Watched a halo canon canon fodder where a map description shows that the created are terraforming planets and even making species go extinct
vague scroll
that's just flavor description
full forge
Unextinct, do you mean?
vague scroll
nah, extinct
cedar surge
Yup
cedar surge
Yea they make species extinct if there is a benefit
vague scroll
flavor text explains that the Created were messing with some terraforming tech that went wrong
cedar surge
Messing?
full forge
I feel like Cortana makes a lot of mistakes these days...
What drives her? What changed?
vague scroll
cedar surge
The AI who are smarter and more powerful than I could ever dream made a mistake like that?
vague scroll
AIs aren't perfect either
full forge
Smart and powerful =/= flawless
vague scroll
we've seen AIs make mistakes in Halo lore too
full forge
Intrepid Eye...
full forge
Yes, but that's the forerunner equivelant. One much more advanced than whatever Humanity may have.
And she makes mistakes.
cedar surge
Cortana better have the guilt trip of the century when cortana 2 gives her back her senses
vague scroll
right, that's the big thing - human AIs are certainly going to have bigger issues when put into scales of magnitude
cedar surge
The amount of people dead must number in the millions
cedar surge
I don't see any innsurectionist siding with her
full forge
Almost everyone on Luna, dead in the blink of an eye.
vague scroll
well, just from the Created alone... Admiral Osman feared that a UNSC frigate crashed into Sydney and vaporized it during the Created attack on Earth
full forge
Insurrectionists get screwed just as hard as the UNSC by the created if they don't join.
cedar surge
If anything the innsurectionists should fight her
She is probably worse than the unsc
vague scroll
Bad Blood is about trying that but everyone is still having problems on that front
full forge
@vague scroll That's as unconfirmed as if she killed BB.
full forge
Does Brian Reed still work at 343?
vague scroll
no
cedar surge
If anything I just hope they don't touch the time travel plot point with a ten foot pole
vague scroll
he left a year after Halo 5's launch as I recall
full forge
Right, left.
vague scroll
I'm not going to even dip into conspiracy theories of any kind, especially not here.
full forge
🤷♂️
cedar surge
Somebody tried to show a leak and it sounded like endgame with halo slapped onto it
vague scroll
I think everyone tries to forget that part of First Strike @cedar surge
cedar surge
Wait what?
vague scroll
the time travel thing
cedar surge
Time travel was in first strike?
full forge
Yea.
vague scroll
there was a element of time travel, though technically it was relativity
full forge
"Forerunner crystal preemptively time travels the Chief before he reaches it"
vague scroll
time travel is a fundamental part of faster than light travel
round comet
i talked about this yesterday.
full forge
But that forerunner crystal? It took him back.
vague scroll
well, that's a bit of a narrowed definition of time travel but I'll take it
round comet
time travel has been done in halo thrice, with one of those being noncanon.
vague scroll
you're talking about iluvbees and Dead or Alive 5?
round comet
not really time travel, more like time dilation.
full forge
when you said endgame though i was thinking along the lines of "Please John, I don't wanna go" from everyone on red team just getting yeeted
Lot of spartans died on Reach.
cedar surge
Is red team really the weakest group of Spartans?
vague scroll
there's no 'weakest' when it comes to Spartans
full forge
They weren't really weak.
vague scroll
you can't really define any Spartans as 'better' than another
maybe across generations but even that's debatable
full forge
They were all injured when they bellyflopped from terminal velocity in a 1000 pound suit of titanium alloy armor. 2 were killed from it.
Had that not occured, they may have well held that generator.
craggy sierra
I also think Spartans each tend to have personal preferred niches in warfare
cedar surge
Saying this cause I saw a noble team vs Atriox and people were saying that red team were weak
round comet
spartan 2's can have their own special abilities, if you will. like linda with her sniper and kelly with her speed.
vague scroll
in H5, we can see that SIVs can match SIIs given the right equipment. SIIIs have augments that are supposed to be as good as SII augs without the attrition rate
full forge
@cedar surge Red team on Reach, and the Spirit of Fire's red team division of Omega team are very seperate.
vague scroll
@cedar surge people speculate and take up poorly established opinions too much
full forge
And that red team is not weak, they were wearing the MK IV Mjolnir still.
Atriox was like, twice their height and surprised them with his gravity mace.
cedar surge
Yea people were saying noble team would wipe the floor with atriox
vague scroll
they're misinformed
full forge
I feel like Jorge could hose him down at range lul
vague scroll
if they haven't encountered a Brute like Atriox, you can't have a fair comparison
slim thorn
In close range, I think Noble Six can make a fair fight with him.
full forge
Kinda chuffed that Jorge just killed himself because plot determined that slipspace bomb no work anymore but actually does
cedar surge
Yea that was a tad cliche
full forge
Timer broke but nothing else broke? ok
vague scroll
Three Spartans with twice the combat experience as Six was bested by Atriox without a sweat... @slim thorn
full forge
Those marines I still had alive during that cutscene? Naaaaah
@vague scroll They did not have twice the combat experience as B312.
slim thorn
@vague scroll They are not experienced well in close combat while Six was originally designed as an Assassin from the start.
cedar surge
Marines become canon fodder the second they join up with a spartan
full forge
Red team was lost with the spirit of fire for nearly 30 years right after Harvest was taken back.
Not a lot of combat experience you can get in cryo.
vague scroll
okay that's a fair point to remind me, I forgot that factor @full forge
vague scroll
@slim thorn that's not a fair argument at all though
full forge
LUL @cedar surge
vague scroll
how does spending most of your career fighting humans translate into fighting a 9 foot tall brute?
cedar surge
Uh
full forge
haha dmr go pop pop pop pop
cedar surge
Similar biology?
vague scroll
(referring to Six here)
cedar surge
Still being a marine in halo has to be one of the worst professions
Ripped in half and eaten by a brutr
Stabbed by a elite
Infected by the flood
Composed by the prometheans
Even if you survive all of that you get your gun taken by a spartan who gives you the worst weapon
slim thorn
If you apply assassination methods, that doesn't differ too much
full forge
ripped in half and eaten by a jiralhanae
sword bisecting you down the middle and eaten by a sangheili
ripped to shreds and eaten by a kigyar
overwhelmed and torn limb by limb and eaten by unggoy
those uh
slim thorn
But my guess is Six will needs a larger knife to slit the Brute's throat
full forge
those covies sure think humans are tasty
slim thorn
Buck even have difficulty on stabbing the Warlord
vague scroll
Yeah, I have some serious doubts Six could get by an entire mercenary army of aliens
cedar surge
We just know on some backwater covenant planet there is a human restaurant
full forge
huh
slim thorn
Assassin were made different since they operate behind enemy lines though.
Like facing them head on is not the assassin forte
cedar surge
Red team were in the thick of combat
vague scroll
The majority of Six’s career was spent fighting humans
He wasn’t even a headhunter as far as we know
cedar surge
Noble team did spec ops
vague scroll
He didn’t go behind enemy lines
terse lava
@full forge in the shorty story,Stepping on the heels of a fuss" a jiralhanae captain commented that another member of his pack had managed to make "the fat ones almost taste like thornbeast"
vague scroll
All Spartans are part of Naval Special Operations @cedar surge
cedar surge
Yua
vague scroll
Noble was just unique that they were on loan to UNICOM
cedar surge
Still if noble gets in close combat I think Atriox wins
He tossed around a ton of armor around like a toy
vague scroll
Given that Six lacks a proven track record against Brute warlords, I’m going to continue to doubt the logic that Six could take on Atriox alone
cedar surge
He even managed to harm douglous through the armor usingnothing but brute force
vague scroll
Dosiac has twice the gravity as earth, everything about them is BIGGER to compensate... they’re born to be human killers
cedar surge
If only they didn't nuke themselves
If brutes got far enough we could even get diplomatic meetings
slim thorn
I doubt that. Brutes even devolve themselves due to their "own Civil War"
vague scroll
They first nuked themselves then worked their way back up to rocketry tech before they even made contact with the Covenant so I say they deserve some actual credit as a spacefaring species
terse lava
Dont think we are ever told how far back their civil war was
vague scroll
We weren’t, I don’t recall a specific date for the “First Immolation” as the Brutes call it
slim thorn
They we're dropped as far as Tier 7
cedar surge
Wow
vague scroll
And they made it all the wya back to tier 4 before contact with the covenant
terse lava
Yea, they had just gotten radio and rocketry back by the time the covenant found them
slim thorn
In just less than ten years
Yes, but in average, I could say they are at Tier 5 at least
vague scroll
Where are you getting the 10 years number?
terse lava
Less then 10 years? It wasnt that short of time
cedar surge
For a tier 3 civilization against a tier 2 one the unsc did pretty well
slim thorn
If shortly before 2492, I expect it was around10 years
vague scroll
Nah, they’re tier 2 they’ve been with the covenant since the late 2400s
terse lava
It wasnt shortly before
slim thorn
Looking at Halopedia, the date was shortly before 2492
terse lava
They simply were back at early
20th century tech by 2492
vague scroll
It’s been long enough that they’ve effectively learned to use Covenant tech well enough
They were able to beat back the Sangheili during the Blooding Years
They were only beaten back because the San’Shyuum disappeared and due to infighting
terse lava
"Shortly" would be relative. It could be 10-100 years
vague scroll
Halopedia is maintained by the likes of users such as me and Ado, I promise you that it’s an imperfect wiki
slim thorn
And the Covenant arrived in 2492, it was just concluded
terse lava
We see the same thing in Ghosts of Onyx, where the fued between sangheili and jiralhanae is "ancient"
vague scroll
But they’ve only know one another over the course of 60 years? Seems to be inconsistent
There’s a lot of these inaccuracies in halo
terse lava
I admit when I first read it, figured at least 200 years
vague scroll
Small stuff that makes you scratch your head in confusion
vague scroll
You’re more the expert on Covenant stuff than I will ever be so I’ll take your assessment on it
Plus 100 years to go from nuclear fallout to a return to advanced civilization seems more practical to me than 10
It’s still a blink in the eye of cosmic time but it’s still a sizable number
terse lava
It doesnt help that waypoint if memory serves, comments that the survivors of the war "bore descendants who would later fight the Covenant."
vague scroll
They say survivors so, close but it’s still kind of vague. Could be closer or farther. Really vague...
terse lava
I assume 2-3 generations at least
vague scroll
That would probably make sense
glacial idol
kill me or release me parasite, but do not waste my time with talk.
jagged parcel
Question the hunters are worms which together create a bigger being but how did the covanent convince then to join. Are there more like animals and can get controlled by their master or do they have inteligence and joined the covanent cause of that reason ?
jagged parcel
ok
lethal comet
there power and intelligence add up
jagged parcel
so a bit like a gravemind but without all the infecting and stuff. So there more worms the colonie has the smarter there are going to be
lethal comet
yes
they could become the smartest creatures in the galaxy but the the nutrition required would not be feasible
jagged parcel
arent these worms then the equivalent of the flood but in a more simbiotic way
carmine sleet
No because Hunter Worms don't infect people or need hosts
lethal comet
its not symbiotic if they are the same species
dull umbra
Is Mendicant Bais (the forerunner construct from before the first activation of the halo array)still out there?
humble yacht
maybe
H3 suggests he died but looks like 343 wants it ambiguous just in case
i like to think he's dead
dull umbra
Ok
humble yacht
when Truth arrived at the ark and brought back the missing piece
zeta was simple where his main housing unit was, it's not like he always lived there
lethal comet
maybe an imprint
humble yacht
unlikely
lethal comet
there is still the palace of pain that hasn't been explored
humble yacht
Offensive Bias wouldn't be so careless
lethal comet
mendicant must have had a backup plan
humble yacht
Offensive Bias would have accounted for any backup plans
dull umbra
Do you think he joined cortana's created?
humble yacht
Who?
dull umbra
Medicant
humble yacht
unlikely, if he is in fact still around
dull umbra
Oh
lethal comet
he would remain loyal to humans
he will see that cortana is going down the forerunner's path
dull umbra
Ok that makes sense
vague scroll
for clarification, we learn that the fragments of Mendicant were reunited from the excerpts in the Halo 3 Terminals
but as for Mendicant's role in current times - it would probably be very similar to other Forerunner ancilla like Guilty Spark/Chakas, and others (sticking to the shadows, remaining on the edge of galactic affairs)
they have their own agendas that are not currently relevant to the Created, at least by 2558/9 since this is about the last time in universe that we have any sort of lore on before the events of Halo Infinite
dull umbra
Thanks, that really cleared things up
vague scroll
np
jagged parcel
Question how big was the UNSC fleet compares to the Covanent fleet
gilded mason
Miniscule.
vague scroll
we don't have any official numbers but the Covenant empire is far larger so their fleets are too
jagged parcel
ok thanks
humble yacht
the covenant had been a space faring organization for, like, millenia before humans designed an airplane
dull umbra
Flagships?
versed helm
He also likes to assume a lot of other things.
vague scroll
probably 2500 ships total @dull umbra I think 2500 is a decent number though probably a degree of give or take
he does indeed @versed helm
versed helm
He's better than most of the content creators, but that doesn't mean much.
vale pendant
question
during the digging of the ark on earth
why is there a cloud circling in the sky
above it
gilded mason
It looks cool.
humble yacht
maybe all that hot plasma messed with the weather
vague scroll
The clashing of hot and cold air will produce violent whether effects so the clash of salt water and superheated plasma in the Indian Ocean off the Mombasa coast definitely makes sense
on top of that we have generally seen that Slipspace events produce inclement weather as well
versed helm
The Ark causes a change in weather.
vague scroll
you mean the portal facility
humble yacht
the ark doesn't influence earth's weather, it's too far away 
vague scroll
🤣
versed helm
The portal to it does, so it is involved.
humble yacht
the storm around teh portal site was there long before the portal itself activated
vague scroll
i would be comfortable in saying it could be a bit of both at the end of the day, both sources have reasonable backing for being responsible given other examples in Halo lore and/or basic weather physics
humble yacht
the activation of the portal produced a strong burst of wind but once it was opened, it was quite stable and not affecting things around it
cedar surge
I think Echartsladder will also use legends and canon at the same time
So I don't think a star destroyer would beat the infinity
vague scroll
star wars and halo exist on a fundamentally different power scaling so it's rather hard to say but given Star War's reputation for ludicrous power levels, I would actually say Star Wars tech would certainly destroy the UNSC Infinity
feral perch
Halo has still greater power levels than even Star Wars tbh
Just not in the current era
maiden comet
i think bb and kilo 5 could be in infinite. maybe
gilded mason
I really doubt it.
maiden comet
hmmmm. i think its possible
versed helm
Star Wars in space absolutely craps on current timeline UNSc
Having FTL travel even on smaller ships is a huge tactical advantage and their's is much faster and longer reaching.
gilded mason
hmmmm. i think its possible```
There would be no reason to include Kilo-5.Halo Precursor-Forerunner era craps on any Star Wars era.
humble yacht
By the time Infinite takes place, BB will have exceeded the 7 year life span of smart AI
so he'd either be rampant, dead, or have joined the created somehow
vague scroll
we've seen some Smart AI manage to long exceed past their operational lifespan using some rather... creative means
BB could have survived long enough to still be relevant but as Chimera and Ostral have said, the odds are not in his favor
for example, Deep Winter (responsible for the S-III Program) lasted 14 years before decommissioning (2537 to 2551)
humble yacht
you talking about that one in stasis?
vague scroll
well that's one example, I forget her name (Black Team's AI and was the protagonist for Frank O'Connor's short story, Saint's Testimony)
humble yacht
looking up deep winter, it's not even referenced that the AI "overcame" rampancy, so it's more likely an oversight
vague scroll
Deep Winter was an integral character in Nylund's Ghosts of Onyx so it's hard to ignore. It's probably going to just be another one of those lore mishaps that never gets resolved.
humble yacht
the fact that it's an integral character doesn't mean that an oversight wasn't made in its portrayal
vague scroll
I never denied it's nature as an oversight, I'm just saying it may never get addressed
humble yacht
sure
but given that we don't know how Deep Winter survived so long, oversight or not, it shouldn't be used as an example of how BB could survive
vague scroll
I think you mean *shouldn't?
humble yacht
can't really call Deep Winter a creative solution in avoiding rampancy when it's not described
vague scroll
And I agree with that but I think if we treat canon mostly at face value, there at least exists circumstances where AIs probably prolonged their lifespan beyond their usual operation
humble yacht
sure but not without some sort of sacrifice or comprimise
vague scroll
the seven year lifespan seems to be more of a military law rather than a hard limit to an AI's actual capacity
compromise will always be necessary in situations like this, I agree there
humble yacht
rampancy begins at 7 years, how long it takes to kill the AI is not necessarily known but that's because most AI don't remain in a rampant state
Serina offed herself before rampancy could really present
we know cortana held on for as long as she could but she was deteriorating fast (and spent most of her time in a low-power mode)
Sloan wasn't in great shape and jumped at the chance for a cure, despite what Cortana did to his people
So that's why i offered 3 possibilities for BB: dead, rampant, or Created
vague scroll
Cortana is also an interesting case in that she spent a lot of time copying herself and absorbing loads of data that isn't exactly healthy to an AI's regular operation
humble yacht
i don't think Cortana's copy ability adversely affected her
else she'd be unlikely to use it as often as she did
it's a different case when she was already rampant in H4
vague scroll
I'd probably support the rampant theory myself only in that he's a memorable character and still probably as narrative use in some manner
humble yacht
i think rampancy is pretty unlikely given where we last saw him