They probably wiped out some during their galaxy wide search for the Halos,i mean,the Lekgolo were almost wiped out before the Taming happened
#lore-and-universe
versed helm
terse lava
Warfleet does mention other races were wiped out. In halo: Oblivion, Regret comments that the Covenant navy is the most powerful the galaxy has seen. Not that it's the only one
We know there are non covenant aliens out there, we just dont know their tech level
versed helm
Most notably,that unknown alien spacecraft that crash landed on Alpha Halo as shown in the CEA terminals
terse lava
That was 40,000 years before
versed helm
Which is like 57,445 years after the Great Purification and the subsequent reseeding of all of the lifeforms that were indexed by the Librarian and the Lifeworkers
Which also raises another question,what race could've went from being reseeded on their home world to being a space-faring civilization within that 57,445 year time frame
And it also has to take into account what races successfully adapted to the changed environments of their home worlds and those that managed to survived the so called "Dark Times"
Look at both the Sangheili and San'shyuum,both of their home worlds were awash with Forerunner tech
cedar surge
Well as far as I remember most intelligent races who did manage to build civilizations never made it to the ftl stage
versed helm
Also,I've been thinking,how many members of the SOS still worship the Forerunners as gods?
cedar surge
Well if your in the SoS you probably know what the rings and forerunners rreally are
versed helm
True
terse lava
Would think for the SOS, any sangheili would view the forerunners in reverence rather in worship.Like japan and shintoism
versed helm
Was John 117 unconscious when Gravemind reeled him in Regret?
versed helm
Ah, thanks.
versed helm
Are the Sangheili mouth-breathers, or do they have nostrils?
humble yacht
pretty sure they have nostrils
but maybe they don't
if they don't, makes you wonder how Rtas smelled that stench before
carmine sleet
I think they do have nostrils, they're just not obvious like they are on humans
craggy sierra
I mean some reptiles smell with their tongues...which elites also don't have
raven geyser
Both, same as Human
limpid meadow
Elites have tongues.
humble yacht
snakes smell with their tongues but they also have nostrils
craggy sierra
Not seeing that tongue
https://i.redd.it/wsi3hnuv9wp11.png
limpid meadow
Sangheili tongues are mentioned in at least one of the books.
Given that we don't see it when they open their mouths like that, it's likely the tongue is normally kept in their throats.
nimble perch
I would imagine a Sangheili’s tongue would be in their throat because there’s nothing to rest on a Count of the mandibles
versed helm
They have their tongues tucked in. @craggy sierra
obsidian thistle
@limpid meadow if I recall there was a Halo 4/5 model made to account for the mouth flap. It was weird.
cedar surge
How well do sangheli even speak human languages without these things
humble yacht
pretty well
cedar surge
Huh
Would think having no lips and tongues in the throat would making speaking our languages harder
humble yacht
it's a little unclear whether Thel is so well versed in english because he knows the language or because all UNSC personnel have autotranslators
it makes sense for chief but as far as I know, normal marines only have friend-or-foe tags in their heads
cedar surge
Literally or in the helmets
humble yacht
well i imagine in the helmets but some people don't wear helmets and still understand Thel
or shipmaster
carmine sleet
They likely have some sort of device if they're not wearing their armour that translates for them
cedar surge
Probably in the neural implant
humble yacht
maybe for a high level person like hood
but i don't think neural implants come with processing power like that
cyan thunder
I'm reading Glasslands and thought this passage was relevant regarding languages
Jul could hear them talking. He knew little of human languages, but ‘Telcam—inevitably—was completely fluent in the one the UNSC used most frequently: English. Jul recognized the sounds even if the words meant nothing.
Telcam would be speaking English as not every UNSC personnel would have had translator implants. Likewise, the Kilo5 crew had Phillips to interpret sangheili for them.
gilded mason
Sounds like Jul should've been in Nizat's fleet. smh
gilded mason
🤞
cedar surge
So the halcyon has the strongest hull out of all cruisers?
obsidian thistle
Uncertain. And it depends on the Halcyon itself. Only 11 got that Superstructure.
*The PoA being one of them.
@cedar surge
The Halcyons do have a really good Hull though. Though I'd reckon the Autumn-class may be better, especially if one of them was made from the Hull of one of those 11 Halcyons.
slim thorn
The Autumn-class was made based on the Legendary UNSC Cruiser, Pillar of Autumn. The class name was made to honor the Pillar of Autumn's legacy and also the Pillar of Autumn II was also made to honor it. Most or likely, all of the upgraded features installed at the Halcyon were used to make the Autumn-class.
cedar surge
So nothing about the marathon or valiant class getting replaced or upgraded?
slim thorn
The Marathon was replaced by Autumn-class since it also features energy shielding.
fair hazel
I want to see some autumn-class in action
slim thorn
Same, other than being escorts, I would love to see it in action.
cedar surge
Post war most space battles focus on the infinity
jolly furnace
I wonder what materials, metals etc that the forerunners used to make their structures and ships
Given how durable their architecture is
I assume its an alloy of some kind
and also nano construction is involved
cedar surge
Forerunnerium
unique rune
I think Warfleet says they generally used a combination of hardlight and programmable smartmatter
But I don't have a copy on hand to check
gilded mason
Ye, you're correct.
slim thorn
Ace of Spades was an example, its hull defenses are strengthened by hardlight bonding.
cedar surge
Are we going to see energy weapons like the powerful spartan lasers on the anlaces on other unsc warships soon?
unique rune
I doubt we'll see them very commonly on UNSC vessels
Unless Anlaces are written to be highly effective
lethal comet
we may see some on infinity class
gilded inlet
do you mean more that are like the unsc infinity?
im not sure humanity can afford to make another like it
just the infinity and its sister ship (the eternity? idk the name)
gilded mason
Yeah.
craggy sierra
Doom Called
gilded mason
And of course, that ship got cannibalized for parts to repair Infinity
gilded inlet
ya i was gonna mention that too
but why didnt they just use the eternity instead of cannibalizing it
gilded mason
Because it was still incomplete.
gilded inlet
ahhhh okay
gilded mason
Also, it feels like one of the bigger bottlenecks for ships like Infinity is the Forerunner engine
The UNSC can't exactly just make another.
spiral jewel
In "Homecoming" is Daisy wearing standard MK IV or is she wearing some Recon armor variant?
jolly furnace
I dont see humans adopting energy weapons on massse
at least not in games
cos it be too unfamiliar to casual fans
lethal comet
some gauss weapons would be nice
craggy sierra
cos it be too unfamiliar to casual fans
That’s a pretty bad reason to stop the universe from changing
But also as of infinite I doubt much headway will have been made on the cross-species research front with all the created running around
gilded inlet
oh those silly Created! always running around causing trouble, those little rascals!
im not entirely sure why that came to mind but i felt the need to type it out
craggy sierra
Halo 5 does canonize the idea we’ve partnered together for weapon design though in warzone.
gilded inlet
needler warthog epic
craggy sierra
It is tho
gilded inlet
hannibal vehicles are cool as frick too
craggy sierra
I do get really jaded at people who are like “nothing should change because the fans”
gilded inlet
that kinda dumb lol
guys just rerelease CE
its so obvious smh my head
seriously tho there are some things that dont belong in halo like loadouts and some things that are on the fence like sprint
but this is the lore channel so im not gonna pull on this thread again
cedar surge
@lethal comet they already use gause weapons
lethal comet
Weonly have like three gauss in the whole universe
cedar surge
Well other weapons are more powerful I guess
jolly furnace
I imagine if we see an energy weapons using humanity it will be in books or game with Ancient humans
gilded inlet
i mean, guass weapons are pretty much some of THE most powerful
cedar surge
Well the unsc already uses energy weapons. The spartan laser
jolly furnace
that way they be tier 2/1 and not have to worry bout being OP given the forerunners are their equals or superiors
craggy sierra
Gauss rifles aren’t energy weapons.
jolly furnace
There no balance issues gameplay wise
craggy sierra
They’re just massive chunks of metal accelerated to super-sonic speeds with a magnet
gilded inlet
tungsten i believe
cedar surge
So how do you guys react to a comment saying unsc ships are primitive
gilded inlet
same stuff inside of older lightbulbs
craggy sierra
I blame Quake for making everyone think rail guns are lasers
jolly furnace
Cos lets face it lore wise fully powered Forerunner and AH weaponry would utterly destroy modern halo infantry
hence they got to be absent or nerfed big time
craggy sierra
Honestly I doubt it at this point. Forerunners have proven to be more bark than bite a lot of the time and also very dumb.
cedar surge
However somebody called unsc ships primitive in comparison to us
gilded inlet
hmmm yes the flying railguns are primitive
cedar surge
Just because it doesn't shoot energy weapons
gilded inlet
wait we dont have energy weapons either
unique rune
Getting stuff as un-aerodynamic as UNSC ships to stably fly in atmosphere is... primitive?
cedar surge
I think they think projectiles,guns =primitive
gilded inlet
ballistics are easier to produce en masse anyways
not to mention still highly effective
and usually more versatile than plasma weapons
cedar surge
Yea that's what I think.bullets can do more things than energy weapons
gilded inlet
ya so like that dude just kinda wrong lmao
cedar surge
I think they equate future sci fi with energy weapons so when they see a faction that doesn't its funny
opal birch
we do have have a laser weapon for shooting down fast moving targets, but it still pretty early
cedar surge
It gets to the point where somebody said our earth alone could beat the covenant
gilded inlet
WHAT
xD
they wouldnt even have to start invasion they would just glass us immediately
we wouldnt stand against them
cedar surge
Yea and one of their plans is to capture a covenant ship and produce them
cedar surge
People even say unsc guns are weak
gilded inlet
with what resources would we reproduce?
how would we capture it?
i could keep going
opal birch
I will say that the Scorpion is underpowered compared to modern MBTs
cedar surge
I think they imagine we get to star wars maybe even forerunner levels of tech in 500 years
gilded inlet
maybe it is, but you only need one dude to drive it
cedar surge
And yea I do hope they make the scorpion more powerful in the future
opal birch
which is terrible tank design, that's too many tasks for one guy
cedar surge
And what's even funnier is when they take stuff from the games and try to use it as criticism. Like how they claim the AR an only shoot 25 meters according to their in-game math
gilded inlet
oml
craggy sierra
Ohhhh are we trash talking the scorpion’s engineering?
opal birch
That and the Scorpion uses tank rounds that are outdated even by today's standards
I am
craggy sierra
Cause it’s really dumb
cedar surge
Trash talking people who trash talk the unsc without looking into the lore
And also a person trashing the falcon door gunners even though we've been doing the same
gilded inlet
Several people are typing...
opal birch
People saying that we could beat the Covenant now are indeed dumb
gilded inlet
oh no
jolly furnace
If we go back forerunner tech from forerunner saga when its in full use it obliterates anything below tier 1
craggy sierra
Man no amount of lore makes a tank that can literally have its gun shot cleanly off the body be a well designed vehicle.
jolly furnace
the scale and power between tier 1 and 2 is so vast its not funny
cedar surge
Its cheap has enough firepower and only needs one person
opal birch
It's also way too high profile
cedar surge
I think the grizzly might be the better design
opal birch
Two cannons in tank turrets is a silly sci-fi thing
cedar surge
cobras two turrets combining into one
craggy sierra
Can we talk about how Warthog turrets are the most impractical and unsafe designs next?
cedar surge
And that person saying the unsc ground military doesn't have anything that advanced except for the spartan laser
Ignoring railguns,plasma,lasers,drones,ballistics and on and on
Not including biofoam
craggy sierra
Man we also thought it was a good idea to have people stand on the back of a speeding truck with nothing to hold them in place other than their grip on a machine gun
cedar surge
Just from the games we see the unsc is more advanced
opal birch
We're not that far off from having UCAVs like what you see in Halo
craggy sierra
We might be advanced but we’re also dumb
cedar surge
@craggy sierra well they have a really good grip
You learn to have a better grip when on a speeding vehicle and slipping could mean your death
Plus its versitile
craggy sierra
You don’t design vehicles like that to begin with
opal birch
The U.S. Navy has a railgun R&D project right now and has a Laser point defense weapon in development
craggy sierra
Like canonically, ignoring gameplay mechanics, how many people do you think the UNSC lost to potholes with that design
cedar surge
Need a replacement AA? Then get a AA warthog
Need a turret to hold off infantry?
How convinet that there is a warthog for that
cedar surge
Turns out in lore I think that people are pretty skilled with warthog
slim thorn
Actually, two cannons is a tank is possible.
cedar surge
To drive it you would have to be skilled enough to use it and I think the same goes for the gunjer
opal birch
The Hog is the UNSC version of the Jeep/Humvee/JLTV
cedar surge
Hey what's more reasonable the elephant or the mammoth?
craggy sierra
Buddy we’re talking about holding on to the back of a speeding vehicle with nothing but your hands.
cedar surge
I think people have done that before and mostly survived
craggy sierra
Stand up in the back of a pickup truck going down the highway if you want to recreate the experience
opal birch
@slim thorn never said it's not possible, just saying it's a dumb idea and it doesn't give any inherent advantage
craggy sierra
There’s literally no reason for them to not have a design like this.
https://images04.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/media/news/equipment/2015/03/humvee-soldiers-600x400.jpg?itok=HEmxmRtb
cedar surge
Because who would want to do a warthog run in that
craggy sierra
It offers more protection to the gunner with the same ranges of movement and above all else, won’t kill them by throwing them of when hitting a pot hole
cedar surge
If you are assigned to a warthog you would have to have a good grip
craggy sierra
I’m just looking for an acknowledgement that clearly the UNSC isn’t exactly the brightest tool in the shed
slim thorn
@opal birch It actually depends on how it will be operated. If they know how to use firearms and utilize it on the tank, then it's practically possible. Just remember that they got decent firepower with it using twin machineguns. It does gives us advantage since it can make a kill more faster than a single-turret.
opal birch
Same thing with quad tracks, doesn't offer an advantage in reducing ground pressure
cedar surge
Huh I'm surprised you guys ain't attacking the mantis
craggy sierra
I do attack that
opal birch
Mechs are realistically impractical for front line combat
craggy sierra
The legs are structural weaknesses that look flimsy enough to be shot out by a pistol and if it got knocked over all it would be able to do is flail on the ground helplessly
opal birch
Is it cool? Yes
cedar surge
There could be a fear factor along with the mantis. Imagine walking through the streets at night and seeing that thing thundering at you
slim thorn
The quad tracks are basically depends and how the developer wants it. Like could be utilizing vehicle commonly works (2 or 4WD driver)
cedar surge
@craggy sierra it has shields
cedar surge
It takes around two tank shots to kill it if I remember correctly
slim thorn
The marines should use SAA, not mechs.
opal birch
If you can put shield on a mech, you can put them on a tank
cedar surge
SAA?
slim thorn
Special Assault Armor
The armor is like SPARTANS but the mobility is as fast as Battle Tanks
cedar surge
Is that from that one halo special?
opal birch
That still wouldn't replace MBTs
slim thorn
If you read Red Eyes comic, I think you can get the reference from it.
Since I want that to be installed on the UNSC Marines who hate mechs.
fair hazel
the mantis legs aren't flimsy.. and it would certainly take more than a pistol.. you know there's advanced robotics and stabiliztion algorithms?
So you're taking ideas from other franchises?
slim thorn
As a references
cedar surge
With the suit that has 15 weapons on it and has a explosion that could be seen from space when destroyed?
slim thorn
Should it can be used, then it can be good enough on the front line
gilded inlet
humanity now is actually getting pretty good at robots being able to stand up on their own
fair hazel
that suit would have been super expensive..
seems like you're ignoring all costs and materials and economics and so on..
cedar surge
Oh yea guys remember the mega mantis?
cedar surge
The mantis as big as a scarab?
fair hazel
Can you be more specific as what you are trying to refer to?
Are you somehow talking about the colossus? Or the thing on adrift
gilded inlet
it rings a bell, probably a halo wars 2 bell
carmine sleet
A Scarab is still bigger than that
gilded inlet
looks like a normal mantis in that image
something we are familiar with being placed right next to it would be nice
for reference and all
fair hazel
You are not familiar with that thing then
opal birch
it is an oversized mantis
fair hazel
We dont know much about it in the first place.
slim thorn
I think the con size of the mantis is you can't dodge well against plasma
It's mobility is limited
fair hazel
HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark II [D] Armor Defense System
Well the file name talks about it
The Colossus is the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark II [J] Colossus for reference
slim thorn
But, looking at how the Mantis played during Requiem Campaign. It doesn't bode well
fair hazel
What is that supposed to mean?
slim thorn
Doubt it, since the Mantis can't dodge the entire main cannon consecutive firing
peak estuary
Where do covenant members learn how to use vehicles? Do they need proper authorization or a rank to drive/pilot them? Like how does one become a banshee pilot for example
slim thorn
One hit could get it crushed if you can't dodge it properly
cedar surge
Yea but those shields will protect it from the main cannon
fair hazel
Tell me, how did the mantis, play? during the requiem campaign
slim thorn
You know how the main cannon of the scarab operates, right?
slim thorn
It fires burst of plasma for like 4 to 5 seconds
And the mantis was not designed to withstand immense stress of heat
cedar surge
That elephant in odst managed to sustain a scarab beam with shielding
And it was a garbage truck
slim thorn
Yes, but that was because of Vergil is aboard it
gilded inlet
well, it was the engineer shielding, im not sure how that compares to normal UNSC shielding tho
slim thorn
The mantis is without Vergil
terse lava
@peak estuary they were simply trained, most likely at war colleges
slim thorn
So the damage sustained can be more greater
peak estuary
Neat. So they all are trained how to use them from the start I’m assuming
cedar surge
So going back on the scorpion do you prefer the 343 design?
terse lava
@peak estuary yep
peak estuary
So do banshee pilots have a special role or can anyone just go and fly one
I remember there being elite pilot armor in halo 3
slim thorn
Need a double machineguns though
gilded inlet
So going back on the scorpion do you prefer the 343 design?
i prefer the bungie designs in almost everything, but there are some really good 343 designs
terse lava
The only ones.i recall that require a certain rank are seraph pilots. The pilots are most often taken from the obedientaries sangheili, the majors
peak estuary
Cool
peak estuary
Wasp just feels like an oversized hornet honestly but it’s still cool
terse lava
It does
slim thorn
Mammoth is good
cedar surge
Its like a mobile command centre
gilded inlet
i want the mammoth to return too
peak estuary
Yeah the mammoth is awesome. The design seems much more practical compared to halo 3’s elephant
slim thorn
I also want hornets to return as well
cedar surge
Yea I'm mostly hood with new 343 vehicles
fair hazel
How can the wasp be an oversized hornet... when it's smaller...
peak estuary
Wait what
terse lava
Prefer the h2 scarab over the mammoth myself
gilded inlet
i mentioned a massive team gamemode that would emply both mammoth and elephants sometime back
fair hazel
The mammoth is hugeeee, what makes it more 'practical'..?
gilded inlet
it does have a huge friggin railgun on it
cedar surge
How is the wasp oversized
fair hazel
no it doesn't
gilded inlet
bruh it does tho
fair hazel
It has a mini-MAC on it
peak estuary
It can’t be boarded or high jacked easily like the elephant can
slim thorn
ANd the mammoth also has decent defenses
carmine sleet
Wasp just feels like an oversized hornet honestly but it’s still cool
The Wasp is smaller than the Hornet
gilded inlet
basically the same thing in my eyes
cedar surge
AA
fair hazel
They're not the same thing. Even if you think they are, they're not
peak estuary
I swear I thought the wasp was bigger. It looks bigger
gilded inlet
and where the scarab has joint weaknesses, the mammoth doesnt have many visible weaknesses
cedar surge
Macs are coilguns not railguns right?
fair hazel
right
gilded inlet
besides you get my point about big gun on big truck
fair hazel
I think there's a big perception problem people have
where they get so convinced and double down on what they think they know, even if it's different from what actually is
gilded inlet
then educate me on the mammoth please
cedar surge
Mobile base with mini mac
fair hazel
It's, VERY sizable too.
gilded inlet
not far from what i said so far
fair hazel
68m long about
opal birch
You don't really need a command vehicle that big
fair hazel
It's a siege vehicle, anti-aircraft and anti-ship vehicle.
DEsigned against terrestrial and orbital targets
gilded inlet
okay still not far from what i believe
opal birch
Maintenance for thing would suck
cedar surge
Yea it would be useful against shields like we saw in halo wars
gilded inlet
i mean we do have giant ships already are bigger than it and still need mantenance
opal birch
you can't compare a giant ground vehicle with ship
cedar surge
Charon class is out of the question
fair hazel
big carriers I guess
peak estuary
Has the identity of that “meddler” ship ever been revealed from the one terminal in CE anniversary. I feel like whoever’s in there could be new villains. It just seems overlooked imo
fair hazel
No
cedar surge
Ain't the only post war carriers the infinity and Posiden class?
opal birch
maintenance procedures would be wildly different
cedar surge
One is too small and for a different job and the infinity is only 1
Post war transport ships
Charon and stalwart got replacments
But nothing for the Charon class
cedar surge
We have less post war ships than before
opal birch
It's a logistical nightmare
cedar surge
Two new frigates,1 new carrier,1 new supercarrier
fair hazel
Older ships can be retrofitted with newer tech..
cedar surge
Sure but they arnt as prominent
Maybe this wouldn't be a problem if post war ship battles weren't mostly about the infinity so we can see how the unsc navy is doing
It feels like a one fleet show
opal birch
refitting older ships is a pretty common practice
especially since newer ships are usually more expensive initially
cedar surge
Maybe spartan games could have made post war ships but that's never going to happen
So did the created destroy the eternity?
fair hazel
They shut down... and we haven't had too many fleet battles described
lately
And no indicaiton of tha
cedar surge
Fleet battles should be more descibed
And ground battles
We mostly see ground battles from a spec ops soldier
Behind or near the action but mostly not in it
terse lava
Sad they couldn't continue that. Loved the models
cedar surge
Probably it was be cause how detailed the models were and how expensive
cedar surge
If fleet battles were around the battle of reach would the post war expansion be the battle of requim?
cedar surge
Wonder if the unsc cares that much about non human civilians
carmine sleet
There were refugee camps on Earth for non-humans and they treated the Elite and Grunt civilians quite well on Onyx in 2558
versed helm
The soldiers certainly didn't.
round comet
cedar surge
Well I'm sure if you had to fight aliens who were burning your colonies and genociding your people you wouldn't be too happy living with them
Hope there isn't a "yea you tried to kill all of us and eat us and enslave us but we forgive you" momment
versed helm
Yeah but I don't think it's fair to antagonise people who were not even involved with the Covenant.
Which is what they did.
jagged parcel
do the flood have a bigger or smarter form after the Keymind
versed helm
Wait a minute
jagged parcel
wat
versed helm
Doom slayers?
jagged parcel
brother
versed helm
:o
jagged parcel
I didnt expect this
jagged parcel
I was so confused when I saw Doom slayer is writing
jagged parcel
oh can you sent an invite or something I want to go to the servers of my best games
me too
versed helm
Sure
carmine sleet
do the flood have a bigger or smarter form after the Keymind
Keyminds come in multiple forms, such as the Gravemind, Proto-Gravemind or the Flood Abomination
jagged parcel
I thought the Gravemind is the next step in „evolution“ for the flood when they had formed a protogravemind and have enough biomatter
carmine sleet
Key minds act as coordinators for nearby Flood forms, leveraging wisdom harvested from the parasites' hosts to expand, outwit, overwhelm, and consume other life. There are various types of key minds, from the relatively simple Proto-Gravemind agglomerations, to the apex Gravemind forms through which the parasite’s true intelligence can manifest
From the Halopedia page on Keyminds
limpid meadow
In short, Key Mind is a blanket term for Flood forms that coordinate other Flood forms and leverage the Flood's knowledge and capabilities.
jagged parcel
hmm I always thought Keyminds where the next step after graveminds
limpid meadow
That's how the Forerunner Saga treated them (though even that was kind of dubious), but Awakening the Nightmare sort of rebranded them.
jagged parcel
ah now i know it thanks
wait wasnt it like that that the flood could infect everything except the engineers or what the things are called that lighted the cigar of johnson and if thats so then why . Sorry if I am mistaking
limpid meadow
Engineers, yeah. They can't be infected by the Flood in the traditional sense as they're actually inorganic lifeforms.
That said, I don't believe there's any lore that rules them out from being infected by the Logic Plague.
jagged parcel
I am not sure if I mistook them with the worm giants from the covernent . Because these things could technicaly be infected
yea the logic plague gets to them pretty sure
limpid meadow
The Lekgolo, which make up Hunters.
jagged parcel
Yeah hunters could be technicaly infected
limpid meadow
They can't be used for combat forms, but they could still be used as raw biomass by a sufficiently sized Flood outbreak.
cedar surge
Its a disservice to just call them space zombies
slim thorn
Most of us wanting the Flood to return
If they could feature the Flood in Halo Infinite that will be great since the presence of the flood can bring enemies to stand together as allies to defeat their nemesis.
jagged parcel
@slim thorn Dont you know that they recorded a pug in their sound studios. He made very Flood like sounds. Its very disgusting when you see something cute and be remminded of something horrable
humble yacht
Its a disservice to just call them space zombies
Yeah, they're closer to space cordiceps, anyway
calm sparrow
Which Halo has the easiest Legendary difficulty?
limpid meadow
Halo 3, probably
humble yacht
alot of people say Halo 4
limpid meadow
I can't imagine that, given how strong enemy shields become on Legendary
calm sparrow
I thought it was Halo 5
humble yacht
noob combo still makes them breezy
craggy sierra
I’m still hoping the flood don’t return.
humble yacht
me too
limpid meadow
Not when it can take multiple PP shots to take down the shields.
craggy sierra
I don’t understand the rationale that the flood were ever scary.
humble yacht
i don't remember a Knight requiring multiple PP shots on legendary, personally
limpid meadow
But I guess people have different experiences. H3 will always be the easiest in my experience.
humble yacht
but it's been a while since I played H4 on legendary
i also didn't play legendary with skulls on
craggy sierra
Like the chief literally doesn’t display any uncertainty or discomfort at his space zombie allies. It made me about as phased by the whole situation as he was.
limpid meadow
Chief doesn't display any fear, but the novelization of CE reveals he is afraid of the Flood.
craggy sierra
The novelization sure isn’t what bungie followed for characterizing the chief in 2 and 3 though with regards to the flood.
unique rune
To be fair they didn't do much characterizing Chief in 2 and 3 to begin with
humble yacht
bungie didn't follow the novels for anything 
craggy sierra
Shame really
Like I don’t condone 343’s somewhat excessive emphasis on extended lore but a little acknowledgement of an extended universe existing would’ve been nice from Bungie
humble yacht
well i've heard that marty told xperia that bungie didn't even consider the books canon, so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
gilded inlet
i thought chief had some pretty good characterization in Halo 3
nothing like halo 4, but good nonetheless
craggy sierra
It took 3 games for him to get close to the fever pitch levels of almost displaying emotion.
limpid meadow
The novelization sure isn’t what bungie followed for characterizing the chief in 2 and 3 though with regards to the flood.
@craggy sierra Bungie didn't characterize the Chief at all, really. He had some characterization in CE, though I credit that to Eric Trautmann, not Bungie, and he has some in Halo 3 since Bungie wanted an emotional reconnect with Cortana. Halo 2, he's truly a blank slate.
gilded inlet
^
craggy sierra
I know but I still really dislike bungie for deciding “hey lets be like Half-Life with a blank slate protagonist BuT aLsO hAvE hIm SpEAk iN 3rD pErSoN cUtSceNeS”
The end result was really the worst of both worlds.
limpid meadow
I agree
That's what I love about 343's take on Chief and why I fear for Infinite.
I don't want "blank-slate" Chief back.
humble yacht
that's a good point, I feel like i connected more with Gordon than Chief
but it wasn't just because of the 1st person view
craggy sierra
The end result was a blank character that failed as a catalyst for the players own immersion.
gilded inlet
i dont think theyre gonna blank slate chief again
humble yacht
one can only hope
round comet
no
him speaking during gameplay is good
unless the writing is as terrible as in halo 5
craggy sierra
I still think H5’s early drafts wasn’t meant to be a squad shooter
round comet
it kinda turned out to be soooo
craggy sierra
A lot of the dialog comes down to your squad mates going “we exist”
gilded inlet
didnt halo 5 have some huge rewrites towards the latter end of production
craggy sierra
There’s a few good lines in there like buck’s relationship advice for dating spartans but it doesn’t carry them that well.
limpid meadow
No. That's fan speculation
round comet
pff im just saying that if you wanna give him character and an actual personality WHICH YOU CERTAINLY SHOULD, write good dialogue
please
dont ruin him like in h5
limpid meadow
Or more accurately, Halo 5's rewrites weren't out of the ordinary for video game development.
round comet
what they did to him and blue team in h5 just
pisses me off
and the rest of the characters were also meh
unique rune
I mean I don’t think anyone was happy with how characters were handled in 5.
craggy sierra
I don’t know, I get dead space 3 vibes where the story was written and then someone made them write co-op into it and the co-op character is just really there half-heartedly.
round comet
I mean I don’t think anyone was happy with how characters were handled in 5.
thats true
I don’t know, I get dead space 3 vibes where the story was written and then someone made them write co-op into it and the co-op character is just really there half-heartedly.
maybe it was made with co-op in mind from the ground up
craggy sierra
That still makes it read as odd that the advertisements would frame the story as this big personal conflict between locke and chief. You’d think they’d frame it as team vs team?
round comet
.no
craggy sierra
I’m not going to begrudge it for that to the same degree as other people do but it does just read as odd.
round comet
maybe they were the focus since they are the two playable characters?
humble yacht
it's cheaper to only feature chief in commercials than all of blue team
craggy sierra
Out of 8 characters?
round comet
yeah
craggy sierra
That’d be like if street fighter only advertised Ken and Ryu I think.
round comet
wait what
humble yacht
but also, yeah, chief and locke were the main playable characters, it's not like arbiter was in the advertising for 3
most street fighter ads I can think of do advertise on those two
limpid meadow
He wasn't even in ads for Halo 2
humble yacht
but i think advertising a fighting game with a large roster is different than advertising a FPS game with optional co op
limpid meadow
^^^
round comet
i mean, the marketing barely portrayed any aspect of the story, so idk if adding blue team instead of only chief would help
but also, yeah, chief and locke were the main playable characters, it's not like arbiter was in the advertising for 3
bungie wanted to keep arbiter a secret. 343 didnt right?
limpid meadow
The marketing simply overplayed the "Hunting down the Chief" aspect.
round comet
mhm
craggy sierra
I’m just trying to follow a thread of logic of why the characters ended up missing their mark cause they don’t come off like they were planned from day one of the game.
round comet
you think MS made some impact on the development?
humble yacht
there are things 343 wanted to keep secret about H5
like cortana
but yeah, marketing never shows the whole story, because then it would be spoilers
round comet
like maybe MS rushed the development?
limpid meadow
I’m just trying to follow a thread of logic of why the characters ended up missing their mark cause they don’t come off like they were planned from day one of the game.
@craggy sierra How games are planned from day 1 to how they are in the final product is rarely one-to-one. Things change over the course of development. It's that simple.
humble yacht
i don't think the story was rushed
craggy sierra
I know that
humble yacht
the game itself? maybe, considering it launched with little mp content
round comet
yeah the game was rushed thats for sure, but im just thinkin maybe even the story
humble yacht
i think you think that simply because you didn't like it
humble yacht
when you read interviews with the writers, you understand what they were trying to go for, even if it missed the mark
round comet
i dont think anyone like it lol
limpid meadow
A lot of passion and care went into Halo 5, it just didn't land very well.
round comet
wait, there are interviews with brian reed and frank o connor?
craggy sierra
I mean chimera you’ve admitted in the past that characters missed their mark in H5 before. I do have the more optimistic outlook of at least hoping the end result wasn’t intentional.
round comet
whatever
limpid meadow
There's some really good voice acting on Steve Downes' part in that game. The voice acting overall is really solid.
round comet
soo...with brian reed?
steve downes always performs well as far as i know
so does jen taylor
humble yacht
I mean chimera you’ve admitted in the past that characters missed their mark in H5 before. I do have the more optimistic outlook of at least hoping the end result wasn’t intentional.
again, i don't think that just because a story isn't popular means that there was something inherently wrong with its development
round comet
and i guess all the characters
humble yacht
sometimes an experiment doesn't produce the desired results, it doesn't mean it went wrong
round comet
😔
craggy sierra
Yeah you’re right there.
limpid meadow
steve downes always performs well as far as i know
@round comet What I mean is, there's some incredibly emotional deliver in certain places that might be easy to miss.
humble yacht
i can appreciate the through process behind telling a story about the chief by focusing on the characters around him. in hindsight, we can pick out how we would have executed it differently. the disconnects from 4 tho are still my biggest issues with 5
yeah that final convo between chief and cortana is pretty powerful
good facial acting on cortana's part
limpid meadow
That part, or any of the gondola sections during "The Breaking"
humble yacht
you can see her throw away the emotion
limpid meadow
I really love "The Breaking" over all. It's really fun level with some great writing in places!
round comet
her face felt a bit weird for me to look at since that aint how i remembered her
humble yacht
her face has changed every game, pretty much
round comet
but yeah the performance was great
this time it felt really felt like a radical change
so did halo 4
limpid meadow
Halo 2 was a pretty radical change from CE
round comet
didnt feel weird
humble yacht
maybe that's because 4 and 5 based her face on real people
so you brain registers them more realistically than the fictional drawn faces of what came before
round comet
i guess
limpid meadow
didnt feel weird
@round comet Felt weird to me.
craggy sierra
I wanna see her creepy smile from CE recreated in HD graphics.
round comet
just saying that i would have preferred something else
OH
YEAH
that would be
uh
weird
humble yacht
i mean, if they would have gone with any other actress for 5, it would have been the same difference
unless you are just saying you don't find the facial actress for Cortana in 5 attractive
cause can't do anything about that
round comet
by something else i meant a more modernised version of halo 3
humble yacht
did you have a problem with the change from 3 to 4?
round comet
a "problem"? no
humble yacht
:/
ok, was it a weird change to you then?
or was only the change from 4 to 5 weird?
round comet
both
humble yacht
well at least you're consistent, then
scarlet hinge
My issue with Cortana in Halo 4 is how she has realistic shadow as though she's a physical presence in the world, whereas in earlier games she emits light because she's a hologram
it was always a weird effect
i get what they were going for with the writing and stuff and making her seem human etc but honestly I still think the end result just looks off
limpid meadow
She was modeled after real human anatomy for the first time in Halo 4.
round comet
oh
limpid meadow
In prior games, she was stylized.
humble yacht
when does she have a shadow in H4?
round comet
she had toes 
round comet
yeah
scarlet hinge
the effect is much more pronounced in 4
round comet
because of the improvement in graphics and fidelity perhaps?
humble yacht
maybe that's when she creates the hardlight avatar at the end, and it affects ambient light differently
scarlet hinge
nah its in all the cutscenes
whether it's stylistic or just hardware limitations, I liked the effect of CE-2 where she's mostly just transparency + emissive a lot more
I'm never a fan of hologram self-shadowing
limpid meadow
Yeah, but it's all self-shadowing. She isn't casting shadows.
humble yacht
well then it's probably just due to the better lighting systems H4 had
they wanted to show off
scarlet hinge
It's the self shadowing I'm saying I dislike
limpid meadow
The shading is present in all games, Halo 4 just had better tech to show it better.
scarlet hinge
i mean i'm looking at images of the earlier games on halopedia right now
they dont self shadow in the earlier ones
carmine sleet
That shadow is more than likely just because we, as humans, are used to seeing shadows on characters regardless of the fact that an AI hologram wouldn't cast a shadow and so that ended up being something they did subconsciously
limpid meadow
They do
round comet
i dont see why you would dislike that but ok, to each their own
scarlet hinge
limpid meadow
Her nose, around the eyes, her cheeks, her joints. All self-shadowed
scarlet hinge
and you're really saying that effect looks exactly the same as the one in 4
where she looks like she has solid skin
limpid meadow
It's the same principle.
scarlet hinge
sure but the end result is different
limpid meadow
Halo 4 takes it up a notch, I didn't deny that.
carmine sleet
Roland also has shadows as well, it's a little less obvious on him, given that he's a little more transparant than Cortana but they're still there
scarlet hinge
well then idk what the point of the discussion is
humble yacht
I mean, it fits the theme of H4 trying to humanize cortana more than previous games
round comet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
scarlet hinge
@humble yacht oh yeah i acknowledged that at the start
i just never really care about that sort of reasoning
round comet
humanizing. thats what i wanna see in halo infinite 🙂
scarlet hinge
i prefer the thing that looks cool over however it writes into the themes of the story
humble yacht
i think it was good that she looked more human
or rather, more realistic, in terms of shading and such
humble yacht
With Roland I look at him and i see him less as a character and more as a tool. sounds callous, I know
he just looks so obviously like an AI
round comet
humanize the guy, give him more personality. WITH GOOD DIALOGUE
humble yacht
you can tell there's no identity crisis with him, he's not striving to be more than he is or questioning his existence
scarlet hinge
I guess thats where its just a personal preference thing, to me AI shouldn't look like humans because they're hologram projections, so I'd prefer a better rendered presentation of a hologram
I've never been a fan of the inconsistency in how they get rendered
that said I'm also not a big fan of holograms in general in scifi lmao
versed helm
AUNTIE DOT has a pretty cool design.
round comet
i mean, cortana is what you call a smart AI.
scarlet hinge
roland is a smart AI too
scarlet hinge
like i said this is where I flat out just don't care about how the visual presentation ties to themes of AI being humans and stuff
humble yacht
auntie DOT's representation was just a grid
scarlet hinge
i get why they do it
humble yacht
a flashing grid
scarlet hinge
I just don't really much care about it
round comet
welll maybe its important to do it
versed helm
I quite liked it, Chimera, it was simplistic and practical.
round comet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
humble yacht
k
simple and practical are pretty good descriptors for Auntie Dot as a while
i guess it fits
scarlet hinge
tbh i bought my PC case cause the lights on the front look like the Dot pattern
meant i couldn't get a bluray drive bigsad
versed helm
simple and practical are pretty good descriptors for Auntie Dot as a while
Indeed, what happened to her after Reach's collapse? Was she lost in the destruction of Sword Base?
humble yacht
we don't know. I personally don't think her core was in sword base
i think her core was more likely on a satellite orbiting Reach
scarlet hinge
yeah
or a series of sats
I always figured a planet like Reach would have dozens or hundreds of server facilities across the planet, allowing their military AI to operate as decentralised entities in the event of attack
that way if one centre goes down they're not out of action permanently
auntie dot pc case
humble yacht
i wouldn't be surprised if Dot was still functional on reach
humble yacht
dumb AI don't have that lifespan issue
versed helm
Nice case, also, maybe she will be in Shadows of Reach?
scarlet hinge
i doubt it
she's not really all that relevant to much outside of Reach the game
and even then she's barely relevant
versed helm
Alright.
humble yacht
i could see her providing blue team with access or schematics to the ruins of Sword base, but that's about it
scarlet hinge
the other possibility i had in mind was just that Dot was the attache of Special Warfare Group 3
which would place her in the same operational grouping as Col. Holland
presumably based out of whatever facility SWG3 was based at
humble yacht
feasible
craggy sierra
Cortana spent most of her time hanging out with Halsey before the chief right?
craggy sierra
tbh I feel like that probably wrecked her self-worth a bit. Roland at least seems like he has a generally favourable rapport with the crew.
humble yacht
what wrecked whose self worth?
you mean hanging with halsey made cortana less confident?
craggy sierra
Just earlier where you were talking about Roland not having higher aspirations and stuff and sorta viewing him as a tool.
scarlet hinge
cortana wasn't around for very long before she joined up with John, only three years
craggy sierra
I feel like Halsey would've probably literally treated Cortana like a tool
feral perch
nah
humble yacht
nah, iirc she would converse with cortana like a friend
feral perch
They were close.
humble yacht
and she saw miranda in cortana at times
halsey kind of treats everyone else like a tool, except for herself
but cortana came from her, so i could see how she'd view her differently
craggy sierra
I thought Cortana ended up not liking Halsey?
humble yacht
cortana didn't start expressing disdain for halsey until rampancy was changing her
craggy sierra
Well there goes that idea
humble yacht
it's likely the rampancy changed her feeling about her time with halsey from good times to bad
coupled along with her beginning to question what it means to be real
versed helm
It's not really Cortana anymore, right? Just an indoctrinated fragment that was salvaged?
humble yacht
indoctrinated? no
humble yacht
her rampant spikes that she made in H4 followed didact's ship to the domain
craggy sierra
I do at least still feel like Roland is depicted as having a more favourable rapport with the people around him than Cortana did.
humble yacht
the pillar of autumn crew loved cortana
feral perch
have you been reading palace hotel? lol
humble yacht
the only games where we see cortana interact with UNSC other than chief is Halo CE and 2
and H4 but by then she's going rampant and Del Rio holds that against her
but in CE and 2, she had a fine rapport with crew members
johnson really liked her
feral perch
chambers round in machine gun
gilded inlet
"Oh I know what the ladies like."
humble yacht
i wonder if johnson harbered feelings for halsey and saw halsey in cortana and that's why her cared for her
craggy sierra
Either case that's my daily quota of airing bad stream of conscious thoughts
feral perch
ew
feral perch
that is true
humble yacht
who says that about any old AI?
feral perch
But Johnson and Halsey had limited interaction
humble yacht
yea, i'm just spitballing
craggy sierra
It must be going around today
humble yacht
maybe he pined for her silently
he also seemed pretty broken up over Miranda's death
feral perch
ehhh I chalk that line in Halo 3 up to Halo 3’s melodramatic dialogue
humble yacht
but that could be because he was close with Jacob
jagged parcel
was there a race in the covernant that didnt believe in the Great Journey ?
or also had its own religion
scarlet hinge
no
the covenant was a theocracy so taking up their faith was sort of part of the deal
jagged parcel
yeah I mean didnt they only want the jackals because their were pirates
steep pewter
So I have read
Fall of Reach
The Flood
First Strike
Ghost of Onyx
Halo Evolutions.
What should I get next?
scarlet hinge
contact harvest
silent storm
contact harvest is honestly peak halo, looking at the start of the war and dealing with the Covenant, Insurrection and first contact
and featuring ya boi avery johnson
versed helm
Maybe they didn’t believe
From what I can recall, they never did believe in the cause.
scarlet hinge
silent storm is set around a year after contact harvest and features master chief + johnson + ODSTs and a side helping of cool covenant
i mean you cant really look at species as one group
saying "the jackals believe this"is a generalisation
jagged parcel
There were like species who were hard believers like the I think elites and Brutes
Did Atriox believe in the great Journey
versed helm
Not afterwards, lol.
scarlet hinge
some ex-Covenant still do as of 2559
steep pewter
Oh I have Contact Harvest.
Started it some time ago.
Johnson was dealing with his early day in UNSC and getting back home to his mom. Thats where I stopped.
humble yacht
He quit because of how the prophets mistreated him and his squads
versed helm
saying "the jackals believe this"is a generalisation
Yeah but sometimes it is required to get people to understand things, and I didn't state it as fact.
humble yacht
But he may have still believed up until after he learned about the schism
scarlet hinge
@steep pewter finish it for sure
contact harvest is like a "greatest hits" list of cool halo stuff
jagged parcel
I still cant believe that Atriox was like you know that my whole clan dies everytime that we go out sucks . So I am gonna make me own group and destroy you
steep pewter
@scarlet hinge Sure I will
jagged parcel
But how many troops did Atriox had that not even the covernent itself couldnt do nothing
scarlet hinge
its not necessarily how many troops he has
he was a guerilla fighter
he raided the Covenant's logistics and supply bases then disappeared before they could retaliate
jagged parcel
yeah I mean I realise that fighting against a small grouo who fight guerilla is hard but that even the whole covernent couldnt do anything is more than stunning
jagged parcel
true
scarlet hinge
the Covenant is made up of a number of ministerial bodies that each maintain their own armed forces with often competing interests
the Covenant fights itself as much as it fights anyone else
humble yacht
There’s a reason guerilla fighting is so effective
jagged parcel
Yeah
humble yacht
Ultimately it’s why the US left Vietnam
jagged parcel
I mean at most of the time you cant fight against guerilla
scarlet hinge
Pretty much. History is full of massive empires and nations being fought to a standstill by successful guerilla fighters
humble yacht
Yeah, guerilla fighting isn’t about obliterating your enemy
jagged parcel
lol You cant write historical names for groups without a warning
humble yacht
It’s about stalling and annoying them
Atriox never expected to defeat the covenant
But he did expect to make their lives difficult
terse lava
How?
jagged parcel
Like You know the covernent glassing (I think its called in englisch) reminds me of the concentration camps or that an gigantic empire lost because they underestimated their enemies and incorporated to many ethniceties in to their country
or thats not a country but a alliance
carmine sleet
Glassing and concentration camps are very different. One is literally burning a world's surface. The other was rounding up people for holding specific beliefs or looking a certain way and forcing them to do manual labour or killing them with gas
scarlet hinge
the former comparison doesn't really work at all
terse lava
Yea I am.not seeing the resemblance either. The human forerunner war resembled ww2 more so
humble yacht
You can say that xenophobia was the root of both
jagged parcel
the first comparison is bad srry i might thought their for a second of warhammer. But the other points very much reminds me
terse lava
The ethnicity one?
jagged parcel
The covernent i think has 12 species thats the way I thought of etnicity altough their are literally other species
terse lava
But that wasnt a major thing in ww2 for the battlefield
scarlet hinge
it played a surprising role, in the Axis forces especially they had to keep units from some countries away from each other because they hated each other
jagged parcel
actualy it was one of the rhings that indirectly let the Axis to loose
opaque heart
I wouldnt say Xenophobia was the root of the Human Covenant war. It became that, but the original cause of it was a simple mistranslation of "Reclaimer".
The mistake was so dire that it lead to the prophets lying about the Humans to save their rears.
terse lava
Hm interesting, I have learned something new today then
humble yacht
The prophets instilled xenophobia of humans in the covenant
Portrayed them as inherently evil to their cause
opaque heart
Yes but it wasn't the root of the war. The root was a major misunderstanding of Forerunner technology, and the fear of being wrong.
humble yacht
I said a root
Not the root
Ultimately the prophets feared humanity not for who they were but what they meant for their religion
It was still fear
terse lava
You said the root chim
jagged parcel
But that wasnt a major thing in ww2 for the battlefield
@terse lava in the Balkans they had to leave 100 000 soldiers because the partisan resictance was to hard in France the resictance helped gattering information for the d-day one of the most important landings in the history of ww> But that wasnt a major thing in ww2 for the battlefield
humble yacht
Bleh
terse lava
You can say that xenophobia was the root of both
@humble yacht
humble yacht
Fine, amend to a root
terse lava
😝
opaque heart
Heh. I do agree with you though Chimera
humble yacht
But it’s still there
terse lava
Huh thanks Doom, interesting to learn
jagged parcel
I mean there was some bad things with the resictance but yeah
btw is there like actual lore which spartan generation was „the best“
terse lava
Depends I guess, a spartan 3 in the same armor was just as good as a spartan 2. The spartan 2a however had more experience, while the 4s had better tech
limpid meadow
btw is there like actual lore which spartan generation was „the best“
@jagged parcel Not really, no. Spartan-IIs are perceived as the best, both in-universe and out (generally speaking). Spartan-IIIs were designed to mirror the capabilities of the IIs at a lower price tag. Given the same gear they're just as capable though. IVs are weaker out-of-armor but in GEN2 they're fully capable of anything previous Spartan generations could do, they just lack the same conditioning (and in some cases, experience).
jagged parcel
intersting
terse lava
I wonder how small a covenant cruiser can get, seeing as the light ones are 300m
jagged parcel
wait werent the spartans designed to stop civil wars. Why were they then good in the war against the covernent
versed helm
Repurposed and also effective, they're basically just better soldiers in general. They weren't just specialised in killing rebels.
jagged parcel
yeah but were they more an an anti terrorist unit or were they also specialy trained to fight against other powers
versed helm
They were certainly not a glorified anti-terrorist unit.
limpid meadow
wait werent the spartans designed to stop civil wars. Why were they then good in the war against the covernent
@jagged parcel The Spartan-IIs were designed to fight the insurrection, yes. Their equipment was adapted to fight the Covenant over time though.
jagged parcel
ah
limpid meadow
It was just dumb luck that Humanity had something like the Spartans ready to go when the Covenant showed up
jagged parcel
They were certainly not a glorified anti-terrorist unit.
@versed helm which anti terrorist unit is glorified ?
like I never heard in real life anti terrorist unit named bla bla was great
jagged parcel
arent the marines an army force
limpid meadow
Seal Team 6 is pretty glorified
jagged parcel
whats Seal Team 6
versed helm
Yeah but they have been used to fight against Insurrectionists, right, Toa?
limpid meadow
Though the sentence "glorified anti-terrorist unit" doesn't literally mean "seen with glory".
Yeah but they have been used to fight against Insurrectionists, right, Toa?
@versed helm Yes. Their early missions especially were all anti-insurrectionist, and Spartans continued to operate in that capacity even late into the war
jagged parcel
The word glory means in germany many other word could be that I miss interpreted it because I thought he meant that they were praised
versed helm
Right, mainly Spartan 3s, yes?
jagged parcel
wait what did you mean by glory . Cause now I am confused
versed helm
I was responding to Toa, sorry.
jagged parcel
ah so you responded to him wirh glorified anti terrorist unit
What would be the closest thing that the covernent and humanity have thats as deadly as the halos.
I mean nothing is but something thats near that like 10% the destruction power of a halo
versed helm
Uh, no, you asked me about if they were a terrorist unit and I answered to that.
I thought you asking me about something else with this question:
wait what did you mean by glory . Cause now I am confused
jagged parcel
but did you mean by gloryfied like that they were praised or like what
Cause in german glory can mean many things like praise
humble yacht
nothing humanity has can destroy 10% of the galaxy
nothing humanity has even approaches 10% the destructive capability of 1 halo
limpid meadow
Right, mainly Spartan 3s, yes?
@versed helm Mainly IIs from what we've seen, but there were anti-Innie operations carried out by the IIIs for the brief times they operated.
jagged parcel
I mean the closest thing of both sides to halo which basicaly nothing is but still
versed helm
I was thinking of Emile.
limpid meadow
I figured, lol
That's why I said "from what we've seen" though. With all the S-IIIs pulled from their companies, it's hard to say which generation of Spartans saw more Innie action during the war.
humble yacht
the single most destructive thing humanity has would probably be HAVOKs
iirc those can destroy celestial bodies
jagged parcel
when I think of covernent I can just think glassing a planet
craggy sierra
idk if that's a lore thing or literally just Halo's physics engine but I agree regardless
humble yacht
HAVOKs are nukes in halo
versed helm
I thought it was the NOVA bombs?
limpid meadow
NOVA bombs are the ones that can destroy planets.
jagged parcel
what does the covernent have for weapons that can do such damage because I never realy heard of smthng
versed helm
Yeah, I've never heard of HAVOKs, but I know that NOVAs cause more damage than nukes.
limpid meadow
HAVOKs are a type of nuke and come in various sizes depending on purpose.
humble yacht
HAVOK is what chief had in halo 4 to destroy Didact's ship
versed helm
Oh, thanks.
limpid meadow
Yep
There are military grade HAVOK nukes, HAVOK mines, HAVOKs for excavation. It's a variable ordinance.
jagged parcel
I think the deadliest thing thats near by beeing as deadly as the Halos are the flood
humble yacht
the flood aren't a weapon
jagged parcel
I mean yeah they are not a weapon but I couldnt think of something more deadly
humble yacht
more like undeadly
jagged parcel
Like does the covernent have smthng like a Bomb which can destroy large things in the universe ?
humble yacht
they have the bombs in Halo 2
limpid meadow
Anti-matter bombs
Which, yeah, are fairly deadly
Matter-antimatter reactions are no joke
jagged parcel
yeah but how much boom do they make because chief threw one into a covernent ship reactor
humble yacht
big booms
jagged parcel
fair enough
I wonder if someday there will be a weapon in Halo which can destroy the universe
carmine sleet
I doubt it
humble yacht
probably not, that would be kind of ridiculous
carmine sleet
Plus, how would they know it destroys the universe?
jagged parcel
I mean the Halos are kind of ridiculous if you think of it
humble yacht
The Halos are already up there in terms of being ridiculous but they only destroy sentient life, so it's still limited
round comet
I wonder if someday there will be a weapon in Halo which can destroy the universe
i hope not, and its very unlikely.
jagged parcel
@humble yacht wasnt it like the halos just destroy the nerve system of a living things
humble yacht
yes
jagged parcel
well then they dont kill all sentient life. I mean depends on if like pure flood forms and Graveminds alos just die
humble yacht
not quite
limpid meadow
Pure forms are killed, yes.
humble yacht
flood super cells act as both muscle cells and brain cells
so pure forms are like giant muscle brains
jagged parcel
well thats bad cell design
humble yacht
it's actually great
limpid meadow
The ultimate stem cell
round comet
the flood and the gravemind as a whole would survive.
humble yacht
they can function as both
limpid meadow
The Gravemind's consciousness survives, the body it presently has would not
humble yacht
the halos target nervous systems, not individual cells
limpid meadow
So in essence the Flood body "dies" and the remaining cells "starve" to death
jagged parcel
wait so a pure flood forms would also have muscle twitching if you would pump enough electricity into them ?
humble yacht
yeah, combat forms are rendered instantly useless, higher forms like graveminds die
spores may survive but they won't have anything to infect
jagged parcel
wasnt that the first point why the flood survived because of the spores
limpid meadow
Some basic forms of the Flood survive but they die out fairly quickly without a new "food source"
humble yacht
they survived because they were collected for study
jagged parcel
well thats just dumb
limpid meadow
Incidentally this is what Cortana means when she says "the only way to kill to Flood is to starve them to death"
limpid meadow
^^^
humble yacht
they originally entered the galaxy from outside
the forerunners didn't know if more could show up one day
limpid meadow
There could always be more Flood out there.
jagged parcel
wait so they killed all lifeforms in the galaxy and still had floods to study and this ones created new outbreaks
humble yacht
those new outbreaks were unintentional
limpid meadow
In fact, the Gravemind in Halo 3 says it has "consumed a galaxy of flesh & mind & bone". That could refer to the Milky Way during the Forerunner-Flood war, but it could mean that it had consumed an entire other galaxy at some point.
jagged parcel
I thought the mind of a Gravemind gets transfered everytime when a new one is created but with more knowledge from the last Gravemind
humble yacht
it's less a transfer and more a manifestation
we don't know where the consciousness of the flood exists when a gravemind isn't around
jagged parcel
like more of a „ghost“ thing
humble yacht
it's like a biological computer that needs to grow to a certain size before becoming self aware
jagged parcel
Isnt it like that that they have it in them already like a gene that at some point of your life activates
altough I am not sure if the flood have genes
humble yacht
the flood has DNA
jagged parcel
so they have genes ?
humble yacht
if you mean do they encode proteins, then yeah
modern rose
Wow
jagged parcel
I mean I know that smthng that DNA has has also Genes but its the flood soooooooo
jagged parcel
ok
wait if glassing a planet kills anything why dont they just glas every planet with flood on them and also the near planets by them . Wouldnt that be more a effective than material warfare against an enemie with infinite amount of it ?
humble yacht
glassing a whole planet surface is not efficient
humble yacht
it would only be effective to getting rid of minor infestations
limpid meadow
Forerunners were even collapsing stars to wipe out entire star systems to hold back the Flood and it wasn't enough.
past prawn
Shield worlds protected life from halos effects right?
humble yacht
yes
jagged parcel
huh never thought that the flood are like the orks in warhammer
past prawn
So did the forerunners decide to sacrifice themselves when they lit the rings?
Like clean slate
humble yacht
most of them
past prawn
what happened to the rest
limpid meadow
Those that survived left the galaxy to let their species die-off
past prawn
ah
humble yacht
a small group on the ark that fired the rings went back to the capital, reset the domain, and then self exiled
jagged parcel
why did they wipe themselves out and didnt preserve them like the rest
modern rose
Hello guys
What exactly are they talkin about?
humble yacht
they didn't feel they deserved it
limpid meadow
They felt responsible for the Flood outbreak and spread, and more over that their crime of using the Halos meant they didn't deserve to be reseeded
jagged parcel
@modern rose the flood
isnt it a bit selfish that the group who fired the rings decided for the whole species
limpid meadow
Arguably, but they were all that was left.
ember nexus
well some survived but they left the milky way and spread out so its unlikely they lasted for more than a few generations
jagged parcel
well instead of helping the new species or help the species who had a bit of civilisation they juat decided to eredicate themselve. I mean both things would go bad
so its more a lose or lose situation
humble yacht
species didn't need the forerunners to grow up the first time
jagged parcel
true
ember nexus
well they thought they were no longer worthy of the mantle as their infighting and hubris allowed the flood to win
modern rose
The firts time that forerunners active halo?
jagged parcel
to be honest the forerunners were most of the time in a bad situation
humble yacht
Faber tested the halos a couple times before the end of the war
ember nexus
yeah but they didn't take the threat of the flood seriously after they defeated the ancient humans and they allowed mendicant bias to be infected with the logic plague
limpid meadow
Correct
jagged parcel
wasnt the flood before they turned into them like an ancient culture like older then the Forerunners
past prawn
precursors
jagged parcel
yes
past prawn
Perty sure Something bout turning into “cosmic dust” then when they reformed Boosh flood
jagged parcel
thats pretty sad from ancient space culture to what ever the flood are
Quick question there was no species before or dircetly after explosion that formed the universe I think I mixed that up
humble yacht
what?
modern rose
"Cosmic dust" it sounds like a drug lmao
jagged parcel
@humble yacht> what?
In warhammer there are creatures than almost where instant after the big bang but I am not sure if that was also the case for Halo thats why I am asking
fair hazel
Cosmic there would be a word someone independently added.
humble yacht
we don't know where or when they came from