I really wish I could get that time back
#lore-and-universe
queen otter
A Spartan IV beating a spartan II honestly doesnât surprise me. Especially after the poor choices Chief made during the fight.
craggy sierra
I feel like I lose respect for S2âs when I hear expectations about like chief should be able to beat all of Lockeâs team.
high pendant
Exactly
craggy sierra
Like he should win a 1v1 but for the love of god 4âs arenât pushovers either
queen otter
Heâs talking about the statement you made Chadimus.
high pendant
And that fight scene was so freaking boring
queen otter
The first time I watched it, I actually somewhat liked it.
craggy sierra
Because it was a badly made scene
queen otter
I mean, look stuff like that prolly wonât be answered. It was an awfully made scene.
craggy sierra
See above
queen otter
I mean they are very heavy in weight.
high pendant
They're super soldiers they should be really fast
queen otter
Still. They are pretty heavy.
high pendant
That scene really did a disservice to spartan 2 fans
craggy sierra
Either case if Chief did go around 1v4ing teams of Spartan 4âs then heâd kinda come off as a Mary Sue.
queen otter
That scene really did a disservice to spartan 2 fans
Not me.
craggy sierra
Evert spartan is hyper lethal
queen otter
Thatâs what I said earlier but he ignored it
craggy sierra
Because someone realized that was a really stupid and mary sue-ish label to only put on player characters.
high pendant
Chief and 6 are the only recorded hyper lethal spartans
craggy sierra
Every spartan is now designated hyper lethal
queen otter
^
craggy sierra
Which is for the better
high pendant
Hyper lethal in spartan terms
queen otter
Wut?
high pendant
đ¤Śââď¸
I'm a lore nerd
Hyper lethal ranks them higher than most Spartans
Of course they're all lethal
queen otter
They are all classed as that now.
high pendant
But hyper lethal spartans are on a different level
queen otter
Then all spartans are on a different level lol.
high pendant
Am I the only lore fanatic heređ
high pendant
They cant ALL be hyper lethal
queen otter
I think you are looking to far into this
queen otter
Lore upsets you?
craggy sierra
The millitary making up something called a hyper lethal designation in the first place sounds stupid and like what a grade schooler would use to say why his action figure action figure is better than yours. The âHyper Lethalâ designation for this reason was retconned to apply across all Spartan unanimously so it doesnât make the chief read like a bad fan-fic character.
high pendant
But then they say
Spartan 4s can match that
When they didnt go through all that stuff
queen otter
I think you are putting too much emphasis on how much stronger Spartan IIs are.
craggy sierra
THATâS THE POINT
craggy sierra
The hyper lethal designation reads like bad fanfic if itâs literally only applied to like one character. Classifying all spartans under that designation saves face for the chief.
queen otter
It just makes spartan 2s seem less special
Just because you love Spartan IIs doesnât mean you are entitled to saying âSpartan IIs are so much stronger and can match 4 Spartan IVs all at onceâ
gilded mason
Making hyper lethal less of a "super special awesome" title is a good thing in my book (But I would have rather they just got rid of it all together)
craggy sierra
Retconning is an art of rolling with the punches more than anything
high pendant
Spartan 2s trained since they were children they are killing machines
gilded mason
They aren't perfect.
queen otter
Spartan IVs havenât been trained since they were little but Spartan IVs are killing machines too.
gilded mason
And John still won anyway, so...
high pendant
They're like a watered down crappier version of spartan 2s
queen otter
Thatâs the spartan 3s
gilded mason
Nah, SIIIs are as good as IIs
queen otter
I always thought S3s were worse S2s?
gilded mason
Just have less protective armor.
high pendant
Plus it makes sense in the lore that spartan 2s are the best of the entire project
queen otter
Just have less protective armor.
Gotcha.
high pendant
Plus I can say what ever i want
craggy sierra
Technology improved and they can produce the same result for less resources and without having to literally kidnap children.
high pendant
đ¤Śââď¸
queen otter
Plus I can say what ever i want
No one ever said you couldnât say what you want.
high pendant
Just because you love Spartan IIs doesnât mean you are entitled to saying âSpartan IIs are so much stronger and can match 4 Spartan IVs all at onceâ
@queen otter
craggy sierra
Last I checked both spartan groups seem capable of punching a wraith to death. Seem pretty matched to me.
high pendant
You literally said- you know what nvm
I live the spartan 3s
Spartan 4s are fine I guess
queen otter
Yeah I literally said âentitled to sayingâ
high pendant
But they shouldn't be able to match the badassery of a spartan 2
craggy sierra
Thatâs not a quantafiable stat
queen otter
If you are a Spartan 2 fan thatâs fine but you shouldnât disregard Spartan 4s as âwatered downâ. They are pretty matchable against each other.
craggy sierra
Most quantafiable stats for that arenât really shared beyond just up front strength which they are matched in
high pendant
I'm not denying that a spartan 4 can be a formidable foe but I'm saying that a spartan 2 is one another level
craggy sierra
But...theyâre not
high pendant
What
queen otter
They arenât on another level.
unique rune
Uh.
Not really.
queen otter
Which book?
craggy sierra
I mean itâs fine if you see them that way but the story writers arenât going to treat them as something theyâre not. Theyâre a bunch of child soldiers experimented on and stuck into a cars worth of armour.
unique rune
The only metric we have for comparison between II and IV is, what, a Spartan-IV in G2 MJOLNIR is meant to be on par with a -II in G1?
Even then that's still a super vague comparison.
craggy sierra
also punching wraiths to death
last anchor
I mean if your hitting it with an armored fist...
queen otter
Its literally stated in the lore
@high pendant where?
unique rune
And then there was that whole thing with the initial plan of the -IVs out of armor being as capable as -IIs in armor, which... I'm sure the UNSC would rather people not remember.
last anchor
Oh yes, Zane
gilded mason
I'm sure the UNSC would rather people not remember.
Or us as well.
last anchor
Who literally took a GUARDIAN to the face to kill.
unique rune
Yeah, that's... fair.
unique rune
I wish I could pretend all of Escalation never happened, but we got Halo 5, so... bit hard to do that.
craggy sierra
nani?
unique rune
Some good ideas dragged down by worse ideas with even worse execution.
gilded mason
Like Thel doin' peace talks, Elite spies, things like that. It's just that - yeah^
craggy sierra
And apparently much loftier ambitions for the 4âs from the sounds of it
terse lava
But nope
craggy sierra
I mean having the strength to go wraith punching without armour wouldâve been a bit silly
terse lava
Well some of the stuff was pretty silly. Like blue team bring able to take on the didact
unique rune
And other stuff was somewhere around 'aggravatingly dumb'.
Poor Black Team.
gilded mason
Thon and Reff's revenge from beyond the grave.
craggy sierra
Tfw thereâs no kill from the grave medal emoji
gilded mason
Alas.
terse lava
Still interesting how Reff wanted to forge a new Covenant with humanity
gilded mason
Yeah.
craggy sierra
The religious kind?
craggy sierra
I mean...it takes balls to even want to consider running that idea past us after the war. Iâll give him that.
terse lava
This was during the war
terse lava
Wonder what would have happened had the monitor.been killed before it could.kill him
craggy sierra
So like...what have the elites been doing for religion since their entire cultural beliefs got uprooted?
gilded mason
Some have gone back to their previous worship, of things like Urs and the like.
craggy sierra
Ah.
I wanna see an elite just almost say âby the prophetsâ before stopping himself
craggy sierra
Do they?
craggy sierra
Is this in a cutscene or like an IWHBYD line?
terse lava
I think just a random line during battle. Never noticed if it was skull or not
craggy sierra
That explains why I donât remember it
I donât listen to anything NPCs usually have to say
terse lava
Ok
last anchor
"By the proph-oh, wait, we're not supposed to say that anymore are we?"
"No, brother, but its fine. I do it too."
"Is "by the rings" still viable?"
"That ones still getting hashed over. "By The Gods" works though, the Forerunners are obviously a thing."
(They're standing on the Ark as they speak)
"Well that works."
terse lava
"One more question brother"
"Yes?"
".....why are we here?"
last anchor
YES
feral perch
âWhat is it?
âA S-p-e-c-t-r-eâ
âLooks like a Helioskrill.â
terse lava
You know, thinking on it now I am surprised covenant dialogue was never really expanded much outside of funny phrases. Could be chilling and 2 sangheili comment on some historic event in the Covenant's past.
last anchor
The background dialog on the Sangheilios levels in 5 was as close to that as weve gotten honestly. I'd love to hear more
eternal oriole
Lol
terse lava
after ending a battle fighting promethans zealot: "tell me brother, does this not remind you of the crazed Oracle and its minions we faced a century ago?"
last anchor
"Indeed! A glorious battle then, and even more so now! It makes my hearts SING!"
terse lava
đ
last anchor
Make it happen 343
carmine sleet
So long as one comments something along the lines of "I'd rather fight these monsters than the demons!" I'd be happy
versed helm
Thel always asks, "Where is the Daemon?" Thel never asks, "How is the Daemon?"
craggy sierra
me when I run systemctl
shut dew
When more information about the Flood, Forerunners, and Ancient Humanity are inevitably revealed to the public after the Created Conflict, I would love to see Humanity's victim complex swelling to the breaking point. If 343 even wants that to happen, there's still going to be backlash.
craggy sierra
I donât see them trying to characterize humanity like that.
shut dew
And that would be a missed opportunity, then. I don't know any other Science Fiction series that tries to give humanity a victimized ego like that.
If so, which ones and what happened?
craggy sierra
I mean ONI probably has already been embodying that but to blanket the entirety of the human race like that would be a little bit grating. Especially when in Halo weâre really not depicted like that at all.
Also I doubt any current humans would give a hoot about ancient humans
Like why would Lasky suddenly feel victimized? Or Halsey? Or Chief? Or really most of the human characters that have been shown? Outside of ONI being a bunch of idiots antagonizing the elites a lot of humanity has been trying to make peace with the aliens since the war ended.
terse lava
Better question, why would we as the audience even care?
shut dew
In my POV it obviously wouldn't encompass everyone like you've said, but just the revelation alone would create (even among innies) such an unsettling precedent for many who've lost everything in the HC war and bolster the ranks of groups like Sapien Sunrise. We're 100% sure that even those trying to make peace would only find themselves even harder to trust the SoS.
Do you think they'd live knowing that there's dozens of civilizations out to get them past and present, and the Created threat would only make Humanity even more of a target in the future?
@terse lava The bulk of it would be shown in the EU and only have a passing mention in the games, like much of the previous Halo games
terse lava
Yes but reading about humanity, whether as individuals or as a whole, grumbling about "why are we always getting beaten down" doesnt seem that interesting
Would say we got of that from ONI
versed helm
Was there a mission to try and recover Cortana from High Charity? Before Chief went there himself?
unique rune
Uh. Pretty sure there werenât any.
I imagine the timeframe wouldâve made it impractical.
versed helm
Why is there a functional Pelican lying on the edge of High Charity though? It must have recently crashed since it hangs on the edge of a platform.
terse lava
I admit first playing through I assumed there was a part on both sides to nab Cortana. The sangheili/humans to save her and get the index, the jiralhanae to get thr index and activate the ring. Made sense at the time sue to all these bodies
versed helm
Yeah, I was wondering that because you see preserved Elite and human corpses scattered around the level Cortana.
It's rather sad, actually.
vale pendant
how did the gravemind not corrupt offensive bias
unique rune
Why is there a functional Pelican lying on the edge of High Charity though? It must have recently crashed since it hangs on the edge of a platform.
Yâknow, I never really thought about that bit.
terse lava
It was built to be utterly focused on its sole purpose and lacked the imagination that allowed mendicant to fall
vale pendant
ah ok
versed helm
Yâknow, I never really thought about that bit.
@unique rune You can find some human corpses near Elites too.
unique rune
Yeah, I remember seeing like an ODST around.
terse lava
Yep
unique rune
Never really gave it much thought.
versed helm
He has the flamethrower.
main siren
You know, I really liked that part in Silentium where Offensive Bias admits to IsoDidact about Mendicant's attempt to coerce him, but maintained his loyalty to the mission
terse lava
Figure both sides made attempts to clear it out a bit before chief arrived
That was a nice moment
vale pendant
how long did the following wars last?
Flood vs Forunnners.
Precursors vs Forunner
versed helm
It's a shame they all died though.
terse lava
Forerunner-flood war lasted technically 300 years. Though that only involved 12 star systems. A utter outbreak didnt happen until after the capital was attacked and precursor relics came to life in the final decade. And not enough info for the forerunner precursor war
Best we have for time on that one was that by the end, enough warrior servants were standing down on combating their creators, citing the mantle.
versed helm
Only 12 star systems.
terse lava
Yes, 12
versed helm
That must entail a lot of casualties, no?
vale pendant
also, why didnt the forunners save themselfes from the rings?
they had shield worlds
why not put a population inside it
fire the ring
and repopulate
last anchor
They did.
There just wasnt enough of them left for it to matter.
And by the time it was over they felt they had failed.
the last of them left the galaxy to seek penance among the stars and pass away into obscurity.
Last we see of them, Bornstellar-Makes-Eternal, formerly the Iso-Didact, has settled down on a nameless world with his lover, the new Librarian, and they have a son.
They till the soil by hand and grow things.
terse lava
@versed helmthey were outer systems with utterly massive populations so yea
vale pendant
how advanced was the tech that went into the halo rings?
like the firing mechanics
how it wipes out life
last anchor
Neural physics. Even the Forerunners didnt truly understand it
vale pendant
or was it pretty easy for the forerunners to build
gilded mason
the new Librarian
The new Lifeshaper, ya mean?
terse lava
It was only easy in the sense they had the material to make them. Still took quite a lot of time to make
last anchor
Yeah, Chant-to-Green right?
last anchor
I mean the Forerunners all have weird ones, but it kinda makes sense.
In a sort of Forerunner-ish way
I mean, I wont lie, when I first read bornstellars name I was like "oh hell is there an Ebony-Dementia-Despression-Way somewhere in here?"
vale pendant
wasnt there a way to have a halo ring fire, and its pulse only affects flood infected
keeping all other life safe
last anchor
No. That was the point of the rings.
Purge all sentient life.
They're weapons, not scaples.
carmine sleet
Still an odd name
To the Forerunners, we have odd names
terse lava
Well born's made sense with this rate
terse lava
Chant's name doesn't, outside of the color green representation of nature
vale pendant
is there lore about what happened after the halo ring firing?
like how life came back
i know it was repopulated
but more nerdy things about it being told in the lore
versed helm
The Forerunner Age looks very depressing to learn about.
last anchor
Yeah. Lot of doom and gloom
terse lava
It took thr forerunners a century or more to return native life to their homeworld or close equivalents
vale pendant
if humanity wasnt stopped by the forerunners
would ancient humanity have been able to stop the flood
or would they still lose with all their tech
last anchor
No clue
terse lava
If the flood was intent on just devouring life no, humanity and the san shyuum were doomed
vale pendant
I read something about how the powder was used by ancient humanity to seed food?
and it corrupted things
versed helm
The Flood are basically the apex predator for life.
vale pendant
and how the flood intentionally stopped attacking humanity?
like it was some kind of plan to lure out the forerunners?
unique rune
Ancient humanity experimented with the powder and found it made some common domesticated animals friendlier
vale pendant
was that intentional by the flood?
unique rune
Eventually its widespread use led to corruption and mutation
terse lava
The powder was used on pets because it improved their behavior and looks. Nothing bad happened for several centuries. When growths did finally appear, it was seen as a result of over breeding
vale pendant
did the power intentionally not corrupt so it should spread?
terse lava
No it wasnt the floor's intention as far as we currently know
vale pendant
ah ok
so the flood actually came about because humanity used it?
and it corrupted
terse lava
Not at first no, the problem arose after centuries of this. The pets started eating the growths on themselves and others tainted. And apparently said pets were also eaten as food by some humans
unique rune
And eventually the humans that ate those animals began to exhibit strange behavior
vale pendant
what kind of behavior?
unique rune
Er. I think cannibalism was one of the big things.
terse lava
Yep, at first once the flood "offically" arose, it was more fast zombies then the horror they became shortly thereafter
vale pendant
I wonder how the precursors didnt see this happening, that their powder corrupted. Werent they godlike. Weird how they shouldnt forsee this
terse lava
Behavior such as biting others, capturing other humans and force feeding them into they became bloated blobs of flesh
Limbs falling off
vale pendant
wow
terse lava
Mind you this was before the full mutations started
The rotten skin, long whip tentacles
That wasnt for a short bit
As for the precursors, they became aware eventually
They saw it as good that it caused sickness
vale pendant
what did the precursor say to the scientist
who then where horrified and killed themselves
terse lava
While never fully confirmed, likely what he told bornsteller and later a catalog unit. That the precursors and flood were the same. That their sole goal now was to push down youth and bring suffering. To prevent their creations from ever rebelling again like the forerunners
vale pendant
hmm
i mean, that sounds like something which would make me end myself
on the revelation
terse lava
Here we go
" Others became dust that could regenerate our past forms. Time rendered this dust defective. It brought only disease and misery; but that was good, we saw the misery and found it good"
"And now, whimpers and cries, but not of birth. That is what we bring; a great crushing weight to press down youth and hope. No more will. No more freedom. Nothing new but agonizing death and never good shall come of it. We are the last of those who gave you breath and form, millions of years ago. We are the last precursors. And now we are legion."
versed helm
Did the ancient Sangheili ever encounter humans?
terse lava
Unknown
Although, it may be implied they did seeing as forerunner servant races were used to gather up humans from redoubts
versed helm
"Gather", did they capture humans?
terse lava
Yes, this was at the conclusion of the human forerunner war
versed helm
Man, that sounds rough. You're being captured to be used as a glorified key for activating Forerunner tech.
terse lava
So one could argue that with the abundance of relice on their world, and their great veneration of forerunners later, they may have been a servant race
What? No
versed helm
No?
terse lava
They were getting human holdouts
versed helm
What do you mean by that?
terse lava
Capturing the last humans who refused to surrender once charim hakkor fell
Like American soldiers with the Japanese in ww2
versed helm
Oh, right. I misinterpreted what you originally said.
terse lava
Ah ok
versed helm
What did the Forerunners do with human prisoners?
terse lava
Analyzed them down to their molecules for knowledge on the supposed flood cure, interrogated them, and eventually composed most
Others had evolution reserved on them, making them more primitive by the day while they were fully aware of it
versed helm
Ah, I still don't really understand what happens when someone is "composed". I need to look into it.
terse lava
versed helm
Oh no, I can already think of a spiritualist question for this subject. Not sure if I want to ask it after seeing how convoluted the Flood one got.
Thanks though.
terse lava
Well the flood can infect space itself and an infected being's soul/mind so far that even if you transfer it to a new body, the infection comes too
versed helm
A horrible fate, indeed. I always pity the combat forms when I see them in-game.
terse lava
Well even if you kill the co.vat form, that doesnt release the victim as they are now arr of the flood hivemind
versed helm
That's why I pity them, what's it like to be in the Composer's library of minds?
Is it just a simulated reality? Or are their consciences stored in stasis?
versed helm
Great.
terse lava
The composer abyss on a forerunner planet the didact ended up at after halo 4
versed helm
Were they liberated at the end of H4? That game was a blurry haze for me.
gilded mason
And Cortana was like "lol u losers, no domain 4 u, stay in what is basically hell"
terse lava
Even the lifeworkers noted that by the end of the human forerunner war the forerunners had better technology to "compose" a mind. Easier, gentler, but were only given composers
versed helm
This just sounds awful.
terse lava
Makes it worse if you consider the idea that the domain is the afterlife of halo
Just with different sections for every race(thus why the humans never appeared to the forerunners in the domain)
versed helm
How does it behave for its captives? Does it simulate their past?
terse lava
The domain?
terse lava
Closest we get is the forerunner POV. it seems hazy if it holds your full intact mind or just whispers and echoes of those who died
But they can interact in some form with those visiting the domain. This gies rven across time, as the didact comments he had felt the feelings of the forerunner descendants long after the flood war
versed helm
This reminds me of the Void from 40K.
terse lava
You mean the warp?
versed helm
I remembered it being called the Void. I might be thinking of how certain races used that plane of existence for space travel though.
high gorge
Whoâs would win Atriox or the Imperial Admiral?
gilded mason
ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
last anchor
Which Imperial Admiral? Actually is that even a Covenant rank
Also its the Void, the Immaterium, the Warp, the Realm of Souls, The Beyond, The Darkness, Chaos, whatever you wanna call it.
Many names for something all races that go FTL know of.
gilded mason
I assume he means Xytan, the only one we ever heard about
last anchor
For the only way to go FTL in 40k is to pass into its madness.
gilded mason
And yeah, Imperial Admiral is a rank.
gilded mason
No, that was Rho.
last anchor
Or the guy from Ghosts of Onyx
gilded mason
Yes.
gilded mason
I always felt his inclusion was a bit...odd.
He appeared for the very first time in GoO, really hyped up, died, and then never talked about again.
last anchor
Like the Spartan Smile from the same book.
versed helm
Also its the Void, the Immaterium, the Warp, the Realm of Souls, The Beyond, The Darkness, Chaos, whatever you wanna call it.
Many names for something all races that go FTL know of.
Ah, so it has multiple names?
last anchor
As many names as there are sentient beings that can preceive its existence
And even some that cant
versed helm
Nah, I think I just mistook it for the plane of existence in Warframe.
That's called the Void.
terse lava
I am surprised we never got anything more on Xytan. Though my head canon is he was a student under Nizat
versed helm
That character scares me.
gilded mason
Nizat or Xytan
versed helm
Xytan does, everything about him is terrifying.
terse lava
Huh?
gilded mason
Don't worry, he's just a plot device
versed helm
It's okay, Xytan can't hurt you.
terse lava
but this NOVA bomb sure can
gilded mason
"Calm down, son. It's just a drawing."
versed helm
I'm sure his atoms floating in space will find a way to cause a nuisance.
gilded mason
Turns out NOVA bombs eventually turn its victims into powerful neural physics entities.
versed helm
Lmao, imagine building up the courage to say, "I thought you'd be taller" to his face.
carmine sleet
Well, he does wear heels
gilded mason
I think that was just a tongue-in-cheek thing said by Nylund
Xytan manages his image very well. I too would be surprised if you are actually 3 m tall -- but that's the way he appears to the other elites. Hologram? Huge platform shoes? Maybe we'll see him in other books and find out...
versed helm
Wait... what?
gilded mason
Somebody sent Nylund an email asking if he really was that tall, and that quote is what he responded with.
versed helm
Wow, I didn't know he had a secretary, lol.
gilded mason
Hm?
carmine sleet
Let me have my head canon that he wears heels ok
gilded mason
nu
versed helm
Unofficial information is unacceptable.
so the flood can create portals?
By using Forerunner tech, yes.
ah.
fair hazel
Secretary what
obsidian thistle
@gilded mason Halopedias "Letters of Canon" are untrustworthy.
Best to ignore them all
versed helm
Is it not official?
obsidian thistle
We do not know as we can not verify them.
versed helm
I'll just assume it's not canon until proven otherwise.
gilded mason
Halopedias "Letters of Canon" are untrustworthy.
Yeah, I figured.
obsidian thistle
And as we can not verify them. They are untrustworthy.
versed helm
Secretary what
I was just making a dumb joke.
obsidian thistle
I am glad I relegated all those letters of canon to the darkest corner of the wiki.
gilded mason
lol
obsidian thistle
Really only 1 has any info of value.
The rest either got way more reliable sources or were retconned.
(Hard to retcon stuff that was never canon in the first place however)
gilded mason
Really only 1 has any info of value.```
So which one is that?Where does it originate from, 391?
obsidian thistle
It the one that was in regards to Holly in GoO.
And her tag
*A issue that weirdly wasnt fixed in the 2019 edition.
versed helm
Where is the transmission for Nylund from?
obsidian thistle
Very early on Halopedia.
versed helm
I'll have a look, thanks.
obsidian thistle
As said however on that page
"These letters for the most part are impossible to verify if they are real, and thusly can not be used as official canon. Many letters have also not been followed as later media have been released. They are recorded here for posterity so if required we can look back on them."
So use with caution.
versed helm
That moment when the Letters of Canon are uncertain to be official. This universe is so consistent.
obsidian thistle
To be fair it was never a official name. Just a holdover from 2006 Halopedia.
versed helm
Ah, an ironic placeholder to be sure though.
obsidian thistle
Well back when fiction was rare, many wikis resorted to emailing authors and so on for clarification. This practice was abandoned my many places however. Wookieepedia and Memory Alpha abandoned those also.
versed helm
A simpler age, I kind of miss it.
versed helm
Playing BTB on H2 was so fun, playing it on MCC doesn't feel the same anymore.
vale pendant
are there living forerunners alive during the events of the game
like didnt some survive the firing
versed helm
The Didact?
vale pendant
well beside the didact
gilded mason
Some still exist, but unknown if any are in a biological form.
Like the Forerunner in search of Bastion.
vale pendant
isnt there also something in the lore about
some forrunners surviving and deciding to stay in the shadow
and record history
carmine sleet
In the shadow? What?
vale pendant
I mean they dont let themselves known to the galaxy
but instead record everything down to what is happening
like they record the galactic events
maybe im getting confused with some other show
terse lava
You are thinking os Bungie's IRIS campign pre halo 3
Those hinted at forerunners watchingn humanity's struggles like the Covenant war
obsidian thistle
Ah IRIS. The vital Prelude to Halo 3s terminals.
So glad we on the Wiki have em in our archive.
It essentially gives essential info that filled some of the more glaring issues in those terminals.
jolly furnace
Some of the stuff in IRIS seems to happen concurrent with scenes in Silentium
Like Didact saying something that was recorded while the Array was doing a countdown to firing. Yet we don't see that happpen in Silentium
I think
versed helm
The virgin didact vs the Chad master chief
obsidian thistle
Yup. @jolly furnace. Imagine it like Silentium not showing every minute detail.
jolly furnace
There's other areas too were it seems IRIS and Silentium don't reconcile but I'd have too look back through both.
obsidian thistle
Oh they do work
Tbh very lil of IRIS is iffy with the the books. Its more the Terminals that are iffy. Which Primordium admits lol
jolly furnace
They had to retcon the terminals as having info altered either by MB or Domain
Why either would do that however is another puzzler?
As there seems to be no reason to alter the real info
We know its cos the "real" info wasn't a thing back then but now they need to explain why the info was altered
obsidian thistle
It would be more that the Terminals couldnt connect to the domain and essentially had to fill missing gaps in its knowledge. That is if the Terminals fault. But we dont know much about the H3 terminal model.
jolly furnace
MB could easily do it as he was in the system
obsidian thistle
Only that there is contradictions.
jolly furnace
I remember it being written somewhere
it was him or Domain
on the wiki
somewhere
jolly furnace
Due to the influence of the unstable Mendicant Bias, the accuracy of the terminals' content is suspect; it has been noted that the AI manipulated the transmissions to some extent when presenting them to John-117, filtering and editing the information in a way which best suited its own purposes.[6]
Link is dead
obsidian thistle
I'll archive.org it
jolly furnace
I mean the actual link doesn't lead anywhere
No mp3 file
This site canât be reached. waypointassets.blob.core.windows.netâs server IP address could not be found.
Just gives me that
We'll just to ask Grim or someone bout the inccuracies in terminals or what the lore reason behind it is
jolly furnace
Ok lets hear this
Greg is on this. Nice
I think I heard this one before.
I've definitely heard this before
I remember back when Primordium was coming out and it was hinted in a panel that MC would have a genetic relation to a character in that book
and we'd get history of events going back 3 billion years
That didn't happen it seems
Ok so yeah they said in the audio that it was MB messing with the terminal info
22 mins in
obsidian thistle
Well how I'd reason it is so MB can make interacting with Chief easier.
jolly furnace
How though?
Changing historical documents wouldn't do that
Just showing half-false info
obsidian thistle
If you were one of the worst things ever. You will want to twist the narrative. Even a tad.
Plus
Its possible the Terminals did have a issue and MB tried to patch it up
We dont know the context or how much he edited stuff
jolly furnace
I guess
obsidian thistle
By all means the meddling could have been accidental
A side-effect of trying to contact Chief the entire time.
jolly furnace
We'll see one day hopefully what the lore reason is
obsidian thistle
Still. IRIS is a interesting case study.
jolly furnace
Yes it is. Also how do i change my nickname here? I don't have the option.
Type your cmment first
obsidian thistle
You cant change your nickname here.
jolly furnace
Awww
I want something more Halo-y
So you were saying before my question
I guess I could leave server and come right back after changing my profile name
obsidian thistle
But anyhow back to IRIS. It doesnt conflict with the Forerunner Trilogy.
Only odd thing is it takes place in 2007. XD
Conspiracy nuts from 2007 get access to Forerunner servers, not even they believe its real. A Forerunner AI tries to tell us something but fails as Mendicant Bias takes it over so it could talk to us. But as evident. These events were more inconsequential as no one progressed anywhere thanks to it except an AI losing its life.
obsidian thistle
Well it could be the Forerunner AI that came to talk to us's og point of contact. Or it could of been tied to the Ark portal or one its relevant installations.
Seeing as the AI was a Facilitator, whose operation was facilitation of Array requirements. (Which is worring as that means the Halo array lacks the AI needed to ensure some stuff run smoothly.)
Adjutant Reflex had to connect to the net somehow after all.
jolly furnace
I'd have to check back through all the IRIS stuff to remember it all but I do remember AR yes
eternal oriole
Can the legkolo feel emotion, like feel sad or happy?
Iâm just curious
Cause in reach when you hurt them they will wine ina saddish way, but I canât tell if thatâs just pain or if they were feeling sad, maybe itâs just pain
I dunno
Anyways it sparked my curiosity so if yâall have an answer that would be cool
fair hazel
relieving the stories, like listenting to primordium... ahh
telling someone. 'this hapepned in the book' is not the same as someone experiencing the book itself, the journey, the words the narration the characters the emotions
versed helm
Lekgolo also apparently sing and are happy when they're murdering things
lethal comet
Its warpoems
terse lava
Yep, and at least some hold the concept of an afterlife
stiff creek
And possibly hands
terse lava
Well their armor does have hands. It would make sense they could form some to fit on there
analog perch
Did the elites always have shields during the human covenant war or did they get added later ?
versed helm
I don't think so, HW1 can be used as an example. I've heard that it's been retconned to feature energy shields though.
carmine sleet
That was the Mjolnir armour worn by Red Team that was retconned to have shields, not the armour the Elites wore
versed helm
Right, since the Elites guarding Ripa were killed very quickly.
lethal comet
Maybe invisible sheilds that were weak
or ornamental armor ig
wait did the mk 4 have shields
carmine sleet
Only Red Team's thanks to a retcon
obsidian thistle
And Omega
And 2 Spartans on Harvest
@carmine sleet
So that leads to a total of 11 Spartan-IIs wearing the armor
(So far)
(And yes I know many hate that, that many Spartans used said Armor)
versed helm
Why does HW2 have art work of Mk 6 armour?
humble yacht
Where?
versed helm
I'll send the links in a second.
This is the Blitz card for Jerome, there are some others. The main menu also showcases a Spartan 2 in Mk 6 armour.
humble yacht
I think thatâs just a side view of Mark IV
craggy sierra
Cryo nanomachines 
versed helm
It doesn't remotely look like Mk 4 armour to me.
Yes, that could be used as an excuse, except Red Team wear Mk 4 armour in the cutscenes.
obsidian thistle
Oh that
versed helm
obsidian thistle
"As core components of Mjolnir powered assault armor cannot be replicated by the Spirit of Fire, the Spartans of Red Team will look to take advantage of GEN2 parts recovered from UNSC outposts, ingenious reverse-engineered solutions developed by Serina, and deft modifications made by Isabel to stay in the fight. The potential amalgamation of these changes and Red Teamâs original Mark IV armor could eventually allow for completely new design permutations customized to the needs of each Spartan."
Its essentially a Mark IV/GEN2 Hybrid
That just so happens to look like Blurs Mark VI from H2A.
versed helm
Oh, but that doesn't explain why the game showcases that armour set though. The appearance is still very similar to Mk 4.
versed helm
Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Mk 6 assets from H2A then?
obsidian thistle
How I view it is this
The game happens before those images.
So as the events in Halo Wars 2 progresses beyond what we see. Red team progressively needs their armor patched up
So it slowly turns into the Blitz art/Gameplay models.
I mean thats the logical progression I can imagine
versed helm
Ah, so it's safe to assume that the technology seen in the Blitz card art work is the state of their technology AFTER the campaign?
obsidian thistle
I'd personally never say any assumption is safe. But that its more a good logical jump
The Blitz description however does mention stuff we dont see (or can happen during the main campaign soo there is some relative progress we dont see anyhow)
Ultimately atm its how you wanna view things
@versed helm. All I can provide is some ideas to "how" it can work
Some may say thats the best kinda lore
versed helm
Thanks, 391.
carmine sleet
And Omega
And 2 Spartans on Harvest
So that leads to a total of 11 Spartan-IIs wearing the armor
Ah, didn't know all of Omega was equipped with it. Thanks for the additional info
versed helm
I wish there were more Covenant centered novels like Broken Circle
gilded mason
Indeed.
stoic hamlet
Agreed.
gilded mason
Perhaps a Nizat-centered one if Shadows of Reach, god forbid, doesn't have him.
stoic hamlet
I want one about Xytan
sacred dew
Maybe he'll get a reference
stoic hamlet
I also really, really hope we donât see any other characters from Dennings other works in Shadows.
I want new characters and locales mentioned.
gilded mason
Gao suddenly slipspace teleports into Reach's orbit.
gilded mason
lol
carmine sleet
Plot twist, Gao was Reach this whole time
gilded mason
o no
terse lava
I would prefer a novel set in the covenants past to help flesh them out more
stoic hamlet
gasp
carmine sleet
But seriously, yeah, Denning does have a bit of an obsession with Gao
gilded mason
That would be neat as well, Ado.
stoic hamlet
(The gasp was in regards to Slipâs comment, to be clear)
terse lava
I mean a good example would be the armor descriptions for the commando harness in Halo 3
Those are said to be made after models of covenant heroes
gilded mason
Or maybe the Covenant's first encounters with the Flood/logic plagued machines?
sacred dew
Halo CE :hmm I wonder
terse lava
That wasn't the covenant's 1st encounter with the flood
sacred dew
I know just making a joke
versed helm
I just had a thought,how did the Banished even get to the Lesser Ark?
sacred dew
Slipspace they found the location and showboated it
terse lava
Belive it's i.pkied they got there thr old fashioned way or used a different portal aside from earth's
gilded mason
They took the long way, yes.
sacred dew
The portal just makes u arrive faster months faster
versed helm
It makes me wonder,is Mendicant Bias still out there?
humble yacht
I donât think so, but itâs possible
Only because it was made open ended in case they want to use him again
sacred dew
There's the fragment on the key ship on the ark
versed helm
And even if we manage to find him,would he even help us in our fight against Cortana and the Created?
oak mist
Unlikely, considering we're technically on the side of the Librarian
He would probably serve to be more of a villain of sorts
humble yacht
There's the fragment on the key ship on the ark
That fragment merged with the rest of him on the ark and allowed him to help the Chief on Installation 08
versed helm
What was Johnson doing during the events of Halo Reach?
humble yacht
Nah, by halo 3 Mendicant had recovered from the logic plague
sacred dew
Fighting on reach
versed helm
Speaking of the logic plague,is Cortana actually plagued by it or what?
versed helm
I was kind of hoping to get a more detailed response, Richard. I guess my question was pretty ambiguous though.
humble yacht
Her actions in halo 3 suggest she wasnât plagued
Hell, her actions in 5 suggest the same
versed helm
How different would things be had John just given Cortana to Del Rio?
sacred dew
Preparing for operation red flag to take over the long night of solace guess how that turned out . delete
versed helm
He was involved in that?
last anchor
Last we saw of Johnson during the Battle of Reach, he and his squad were stationed on Station Gamma and attempting to protect the UNSC Applebee there. They were pinned down by Jackals, and John and Linda cleared them out.
What they were doing there before, we dont know
sacred dew
The didact would have won
versed helm
Thanks, Orca.
sacred dew
Because Cortana can't hold him down for chief
humble yacht
Depends on the pay
versed helm
I get the feeling that the reason as to why they went the way they did in regards to Halo 5's story (the Guardian Custodes and the AI revolt) was that humanity was becoming too powerful and i also have the feeling that the writers for both Halo 4 and 5 wrote themselves into a corner
carmine sleet
I don't think that was the reason, like, apart from Infinity, a single ship that's still dwarfed by many Covenant ships, the UNSC was not as powerful as everyone claimed they are
versed helm
Ngl,i cringe every time Lasky says the whole "we are the giants" line
last anchor
See I kinda liked it.
And I mean, see it how you want too, but he was kind of right. The UNSC wasnt on the back foot anymore and they DID have Infinity.
humble yacht
I think itâs less that humanity got strong and more that they simply didnât have a stronger threat keeping them down anymore
Itâs not like current humanity has the same military strength as the covenant in its prime
versed helm
True
stoic hamlet
Even post war humanity would still get stomped by the Covenant.
The only thing they have going for them is Infinity, but almost all her successes were against half-manned, barely maintained ships. Not the true ships of the line the Covenant fielded.
versed helm
Like if the Infinity went up against a CSO-class supercarrier,it would get swiss cheesed
last anchor
Didnt it get three-shot by a glassing cannon?
Mind you thats in Escalation (inhales) so take that as you will but
Me, personally, I like the "UNSC got the stick again" kinda thing.
But thats me
versed helm
It's a mixed bag
clever fable
What's the limitations on the Infinity's ability for slipspace jumps? I feel like it'd be able to come into a field, pop a MAC, then jump out to a separate location nearby. But maybe that all requires too much juice to be done effectively?
humble yacht
Infinity can make emergency jumps pretty quickly. When Cortana found the ship, it made a jump within seconds of the guardian appearing
And since the engines are forerunner in design, I imagine they can perform multiple jumps in somewhat rapid succession.
clever kestrel
Question
craggy sierra
answer
clever kestrel
Everyone dissaproves of Cortana being a villain right?
Why is nobody questioning her potential of being a villain?
versed helm
I think that's why they disapprove it, her potential is borderline overpowered.
cyan thunder
The covenant races, does anyone know much about the history of the names, or what languages they are from? Like what does Kig Yar or Huragok actually mean? Or were they just random letters thrown together to make up an alien species
gilded mason
They're all Sangheili names for the species, I believe.
cyan thunder
I was just curious as Apparently from Google,  Sangheili (Macto cognatus in Latin taxonomy, meaning "I glorify my kin") which is pretty fitting for the honour and fighting style. Also Unggoy means monkey in Cebuano. I was wondering if the others had something rooted in Latin or Greek (or other obscure languages) But can't find anything for the other races
terse lava
I recall jiralhanae was similar to a korean word for "crazed brute"
Lekgolo is also ( I think Indonesian) for 100 snakes
cyan thunder
That's pretty cool
low flint
does anyone know about the meddlers
i had a friend say its speculation of some secret race that watches everything in the universe
gilded mason
its speculation of some secret race that watches everything in the universe
First time ever hearing about that part.
Meddlers are really just a Guilty Spark term for people that go around poking Forerunner stuff.
low flint
he didnt give me much to go off of
ive been looking in all the books
im guessing he was trying to talk about about the precursors
gilded mason
Perhaps
low flint
also i have a question about halo 5s legendary ending
does anyone know what ring that is
gilded mason
Unknown at the moment
low flint
oh
stiff creek
Probably Zeta.
sacred dew
U guys think spark will appear in infinite
humble yacht
No
stable edge
nah, but what about mindicate bias
humble yacht
Hope not
limpid meadow
Directly? Almost certainly not.
In whatever comes after Infinite? Yeah, that'd be cool
humble yacht
I think itâs more impactful that he died on I08 as he expected
limpid meadow
I disagree, plus his presence makes for an easy explanation for how the Spirit got to the Ark.
I just don't feel his story is done yet. There's more to tell.
queen otter
U guys think spark will appear in infinite
Heâs not even in his 343 Guilty Spark form. Technically heâs Chakas again.
queen otter
Gotcha.
terse lava
@limpid meadow figured he technically was just Chakas with spark's memories as well?
last anchor
He could be Spark with Chaka's memories of Spark with Chaka's memories of Chaka's memories of Spark of Chaka's memories-basically just an uroborus.
All of it packed into a Soldier can and now hangin with Forge ala Firefly.
distant elk
hey is there a canon size of the library in halo 2? pls ping me so i see it
limpid meadow
@terse lava In case you're interested, I'll avoid spoilers, but the circumstances of that statement are covered in Halo: Renegades.
@distant elk Strictly speaking no, there's no canon size, though the community member Stephen Loftus has documented the Library structure's size as depicted in Halo 2 here: http://halo.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_scalecomparison/1280h.html?display=DreadnoughtScale
distant elk
Oh wow that is bigger than I thought. Thanks for the help, HBO is still reliable đ
lethal comet
What are prometheans made of?
humble yacht
some mix of hard light and metal (maybe smart matter)
terse lava
@limpid meadowi already read the book, Thus the conclusion I came too
humble yacht
Or he was spark with Chakasâ memories
Or itâs fortencho with both their memories (lolol)
lethal comet
When prometheans are killed, do their composed essence transfer to another body or are they destroyed?
craggy sierra
New body or just back to the domain Iâd bet but I donât know.
humble yacht
the data left behind by a destroyed knight disipates
whether that's the original copy of the essence, though, it not clearly understood
lethal comet
Why didn't Atriox have the Jiralhanae masculine 'us' suffix
versed helm
Lmao, "Tartar", "Decim", I'm pretty sure they just have Latin names.
carmine sleet
Tartarus comes from the name of a prison in the ancient Greek underworld
humble yacht
seems like the -us suffix is just a popular naming scheme for brutes, but Atriox is not the only brute to lack that naming style
versed helm
Atrioxus sounds silly.
obsidian thistle
*Do note that while cool. The Loftus charts should not be taken as canon. (Later media dont follow it. And it has issues spread all over with stuff being given names yet not being named as such in later media and even older media)
@distant elk
Best to use it as a "guage" of size, than a confirmation of size
atomic barn
Halo Tech:
FTL Tech
Terraforming Tech
Interplanetary Ships
Interstellar Empire
Galactic Superweapons
Nanobots
But no cure to ageing, what?
humble yacht
aging isn't a disease
humble yacht
in their armor, yes
feral perch
Yes, only in their armor.
craggy sierra
Also we do kinda have some stuff to stave off aging. All the Spartans have it.
I donât know if thereâs specifics on how long it keeps them good for
feral perch
Johnson was seventy-something when he died, right?
humble yacht
well only the IVs are confirmed to have lengthened telomeres
stoic hamlet
Cryo basically stops aging
feral perch
^^^
humble yacht
but i wouldn't be surprised if that's the gene therapy that the 2s and 3s got as well
stoic hamlet
As far as we know, the IIâs and IIIâs donât. But itâs possible.
Itâs just not confirmed either way.
humble yacht
more likely just means spartans will all reach that theoretical max human age (or slightly surpass it), and also remain in fighting condition for longer
atomic barn
In halo universe, there are nanobots for altering armour and stuff
With nanobots you can make your entire population immortal
stoic hamlet
Not really.
feral perch
Yeah it doesn't work that way.
humble yacht
assembling armor is a lot different than correcting DNA errors
atomic barn
It does, really
feral perch
Uh, no.
stoic hamlet
Nanobots arenât some handwave way to immortality, lol.
feral perch
Working with inanimate material is far different than keeping cells reproducing perfectly.
atomic barn
If you have tiny robots, it isnât much of a leap in turning them from manufacturing to medican
stoic hamlet
Just because you have nanobots doesnât mean you can manipulate DNA on the level enough to stop aging.
feral perch
For surgery sure, but not for... yeah.
atomic barn
You donât need to manipulate the dna necessity, you just need them repairing damage across your body, and you could manipulate DNA with them, as we could just pump them full of enzymes
humble yacht
đ¤Śââď¸
feral perch
it doesn't work like that dude
versed helm
You just said that you didn't need to manipulate DNA, then proceeded to talk about manipulating it.
atomic barn
And how does it work then? @feral perch
stoic hamlet
If we knew weâd likely be doing it already, lol
feral perch
Well, except for the Forerunners.
But future humanity doesn't have that kind of tech... yet.
atomic barn
@versed helm
I mentioned how you donât need to manipulate DNA to keep someone alive after @stoic hamlet said you couldnât manipulate DNA
then I corrected him in saying you could manipulate DNA with them
versed helm
Ah, I see.
stoic hamlet
Sure, but again, that doesnât mean you can suddenly stop aging.
humble yacht
i mean, it is fiction, you can kind of do anything you want
doesn't mean it'd be realistic though
feral perch
doubt
stoic hamlet
Question is, do people want that?
humble yacht
lol, no, we aren't a century away from halting aging
stoic hamlet
Maybe the UNSC can completely halt aging, but itâs seen as unethical and wrong, so the limit is increasing the lifespan but nothing more.
atomic barn
Really... @feral perch
We have started looking into genetic modification, we have found ways to program organelles to change DNA, we have started researching vitality boosters, and true cybernetics will be a thing at some point
atomic barn
It pretty much will
We went from not knowing how to fly in 1900, and in 69 years, landed people on the moon.
humble yacht
again, aging isn't a disease, it's a biological process, just like respiration or glycolysis
feral perch
Remember how people of the 20th century thought we'd have flying cars by now?
humble yacht
you can't stop aging anymore than you can stop cells from replicating
versed helm
We technically have a flying car right now.
feral perch
if only technically then meh
stoic hamlet
Heh
atomic barn
So what if its not a disease? @humble yacht
feral perch
I bet it flies just like a "hoverboard" hovers
versed helm
It looks like something out of Fallout.
atomic barn
@humble yacht
Replace all your meaty bits with robotics, find a way to heal the brain, you have got immortality
feral perch
Don't tag mods.
versed helm
It's honestly just a glorified plane.
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
Spartans might as well be machines, they barely have any sense of individualism.
feral perch
That's really not true.
humble yacht
even if you turn people in a bunch of robocops, the biological parts still age
unless you make people completely mechanical
feral perch
Furthermore, many human cultures today are collectivist-oriented. Are they less than human, Delete?
humble yacht
but then you aren't really human anymore
stoic hamlet
The IIâs and IIIâs are ordered and disciplined, but still individuals.
atomic barn
You think being in an android body would mean cold meaningless existence, it would just be normal life, except you donât die until you want to @feral perch
After all, you could retain all feeling as feeling is just electrical signals to the brain
stoic hamlet
IVâs are undoubtedly individuals.
humble yacht
mortality is a major component of the human condition
stoic hamlet
^^^^
humble yacht
as they say, life is beautiful because it is fleeting
feral perch
So you're thinking more about Exos from Destiny, then, Todd.
atomic barn
Pain, misery, starvation and TB were part of the human condition until we found ways to stop it
feral perch
Why don't you look up Dissociative Exomind Rejection?
humble yacht
pain and misery are still a part of being human
atomic barn
True
humble yacht
and we also haven't stopped people from starving, so
not sure what you meant with that
atomic barn
Do you starve on a daily basis?
To your human condition, starvation is not part of it
To the majority of the developed world, starvation is not part of it
Still, probably a bad way of putting it
humble yacht
but there are still people in the world who are starving
so it hasn't been stopped
the human condition is more than just one person's experience
atomic barn
Why would life be beautiful if it is fleeting?
versed helm
Furthermore, many human cultures today are collectivist-oriented. Are they less than human, Delete?
@feral perch No because they're not kidnapped at the age of 6 and are exposed to influential media.
humble yacht
it's a poetic statement usually relating life to flowers
flowers are beautiful but also impermanent
but fake flowers lack the same charm as real flowers, despite fake flowers lasting forever
nobody has a garden of fake flowers they tend to
feral perch
That still doesn't make them machines, Delete.
atomic barn
Iâll dm it to u then
atomic barn
Too late
humble yacht
i can close the DM
atomic barn
Do it then
feral perch
Flowers serve a purpose within the ecosystem, though. Fake flowers serve no purpose beyond an aesthetic one.
People don't plant flowers for the sake of watching them live and then die.
versed helm
Machines serve a purpose.
humble yacht
People don't plant flowers for the sake of watching them live and then die.
yes they do
feral perch
That's not the main reason.
humble yacht
i mean, not explicitly to see the death, but it's understood that old flowers will die and new flowers will take their place
feral perch
You can look at a plant as though it were a machine. An organic one.
humble yacht
flowers in the natural world serve a purpose, yes, but flowers in a man made garden are there to look pretty
and to be cared for
feral perch
Sure. But if you never had to tend the flowers more than once and they lived forever, that would be more efficient.
humble yacht
it wouldn't be gardening then
feral perch
ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
humble yacht
people can already do that if they want; set up fake flower collections
yet real gardening is still much more popular
feral perch
But real flowers can do much more than fake ones.
humble yacht
people don't garden as a hobby because of what flowers can "do"
atomic barn
A poem about flowers means little in the beauty of death
Death brings only misery
Few parents would want their child to grow old, grow weak develop pains, blindness, deafness and eventually die for the only reason of better appreciating life
feral perch
Gardening isn't just a hobby.
versed helm
You can look at a plant as though it were a machine. An organic one.
Yes because it is devoid of personality.
I view the Spartans as biological war machines.
humble yacht
if you're growing herbs and veggies for use then you're a farmer more than a gardner
feral perch
Very well, Delete.
feral perch
Good point, I suppose I wasn't thinking of the difference that does actually exist between gardening and farming.
Still, real flowers have many more perks than fake ones.
humble yacht
real flowers have scents, which can be artificially replicated
but its still not the same
you could create a fake garden that looked and smelled very close to a real garden, but i doubt it would be as fulfilling to most people
feral perch
So if there were real flowers that could live forever, they'd potentially be superior to either real dying flowers or fake flowers.
humble yacht
if a plant could live forever, it would have no reason to flower in the first place
feral perch
Fair.
atomic barn
There is no reason to life, only what you make of it.
feral perch
If that plant were the only thing in its environment
but plants are a part of the ecosystem. They help keep us alive with the oxygen they provide, and natural pollinators help plants to spread their offspring, which is an alternative reason for flowering beyond merely living.
humble yacht
spreading offspring is living for a plant
feral perch
that's like, your opinion
atomic barn
A plant lives to spread, as its has no brain to contemplate existence
feral perch
That's good.
atomic barn
How did this conversation go from halo, to immortality to gardening?
feral perch
Well, there's nothing really exciting as far as Halo lore goes until we get Infinite news.
humble yacht
it went there when you said the USNC should just make people immortal with nanobots
feral perch
yeah don't say things like that
atomic barn
What thing @feral perch
feral perch
nope
atomic barn
?
terse lava
I assume hes still alive
obsidian thistle
A loose thread caused by the og intent to have him be Thel 'Vadamee
terse lava
Still annoyed they didnt do their research on that
obsidian thistle
Gah thats the worst type of loose thread tbh
They patched it up. But unfortunately its just there now
He never became an Arbiter. (Not even the "Halo Interactive Strategy Game" can save that)
humble yacht
he doesn't need to
heck, that could be a plot point to bringing him back
he never became an arbiter so he never recovered from the dishonor of not finishing John
and it ate at him and made him a true villain
terse lava
Well it wasnt his dishonor it was on Luro
humble yacht
Luro was the one who said he'd need to become an Arbiter to recover from the dishonor
terse lava
Which Luro brought on him by pulling him back
humble yacht
ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Luro was a shipmaster, Thel was a lowly major at the time
who's word is going to mean more during a tribunal?
terse lava
Yes but didnt Frankie himself comment on the fates? Luro lost a ship, and an important asset. It seems clear the council reviewed everything and put the full blame on Luro
Correction, 2 ships
humble yacht
that doesn't mean that Lodamee wouldn't still feel a personal fault for not having finished the Chief
obsidian thistle
Luro also did kill a few Spartans.
Take that as you will
A loss of a few ships in turn of killing a rare threat
stoic hamlet
Three Spartans died in total from that fleet.
terse lava
Well Thel did also kill a spartan and captured halsey
stoic hamlet
Not a Bad trade.
terse lava
I guess
versed helm
he never became an arbiter so he never recovered from the dishonor of not finishing John
This is for 'Lodamee, right?
terse lava
Yes
humble yacht
just a potential justification for him making a comeback and holding a grudge against our hero
versed helm
I can see why.
obsidian thistle
Missed opportunity to have him appear in the Post-War Blue Team novels. Hunting Blue for John. But John not being there
humble yacht
maybe he can still be used in the future as a more personal threat to the Chief, as opposed to another apocalypse
obsidian thistle
Inb4 he appears in Shadows of Reach. As a "Shadow" of Johns past.
stoic hamlet
^^^^^ please
obsidian thistle
XD
versed helm
I'd rather see Let 'Volir return.
stoic hamlet
I donât want anymore apocalyptic threats.
fair hazel
Let âVolir is still there in modern halo
obsidian thistle
I want Jeâddak Zule to return
Such an epic name should not remain a marketing thing (that is canon)
versed helm
Let âVolir is still there in modern halo
Okay, how does that count as a reason for him to not return?
obsidian thistle
I think the theme was stuff that is around 10+ years old. xD Threads that are old and unlikely to be touched for a good while.
versed helm
It's okay, Warden Eternal shouldn't return since he was in a modern Halo game. 
fair hazel
Iâm kidna saying heâs already here
tranquil sundial
Maccabeus did nothing wrong
humble yacht
we know what he's up to
versed helm
Oh, what is that may I ask?
humble yacht
he's on the ark, locked in battle with the SoF
versed helm
I hope he doesn't receive poor treatment from writers, he has some potential as a character.
obsidian thistle
More I'd say HW2 tried to set up points to finish later. And has a lotta characters with barely any info. Which admittedly is what a lotta RTS do.
A lotta folks do note that HW1 did the Brute Chieftain worse by giving him very very very lil lore. That even the Prima Guide that expanded the lore on all characters greatly gave his in-universe paragraph to Forge and Cutter.
versed helm
Was Forge simulated to exist in HW2?
obsidian thistle
MP isnt canon.
versed helm
Ah, I see. Thank you.
obsidian thistle
The locations, stuff, characters are canon. But its unlikely they were at said locals during/after HW2. (Especially the already ded ones)
*Tis a shame. HW2 has the perf framework for War Games sims.
Do note Gameplay mechanics are not canon also. But the stuff that cause said effects may be canon but dont do said thing
last anchor
Somehow I really doubt Nightengales can just green healy beam a bunch of shot up Marines and have them get right back up without issue, yeah...
obsidian thistle
Bloodfuel units dont actually siphon health from enemy units.
But their gear exists.
last anchor
Your right, they really did miss a chance to make them war games style sims.
I guess they kind of ar, they represent tactical sims Cutter and Atriox are running right?
Like that huge holotable Atriox smashes at the end of the campaign
obsidian thistle
That was mine and a few others hopes. (Or the limited War Games the phoenix logs mention)
But Grim killed that ;-;
humble yacht
how apropos
cold forge
Noble 6 is alive
carmine sleet
Six is not alive, he's dead, confirmed by both Bungie and 343i
feral perch
Noble Six is, as Ackerson put it, âDead. Dead. Dead.â
steep steeple
vagrant anvil
craggy sierra
wut?
full forge
poor ackerson
whole canopy
Hey guys what's todays subject ?
gilded mason
Nothing at the moment
humble yacht
If vacuum energy is made by consuming alternate universes, I wonder if an older universe provides more energy than a younger one
clever fable
maybe the laws of physics are different in other universes, so some would be that way, and others another way?
humble yacht
the idea of vacuum energy already breaks the laws of physics
what I really want to know is how old a universe is when it's consumed for vacuum energy. does it have planets with life? does it have heroes?
do those universes die because the hero failed?
is every death you suffer in Halo a failed universe used to power Didact's ship?
clever fable
Sure, but we're dealing with a multitude of universes. Doesn't really have much to do with OUR physics unless there's a physical limitation in the interaction from our end, which there may be, but isn't really what I was getting at.
I only ever remember them using the word 'nascent' when referring to the universes drained for energy, but we don't exactly have a library's worth of information on how the tech works. Could be that most are new, and on occasion others are old.
gilded mason
what I really want to know is how old a universe is when it's consumed for vacuum energy. does it have planets with life? does it have heroes?
The universes were just born. And since all the energy is concentrated in one place, it's probably much easier to gather than in older universes where the energy is spread out over countless galaxies.
I see also the outstretched, feather-like plumes of vacuum energy pylons, drawing in the potential of an infinity of alternate realities...aborting untold numbers of nascent universes to supply Requiem's power.
humble yacht
Thatâs why I wonder if older universes have more energy over all
gilded mason
Why would they?
humble yacht
Or are universes born with a set amount and itâs just spread thinner as the universe grows
gilded mason
The latter
humble yacht
But see thatâs weird because youâd think life adds a lot of energy
gilded mason
The life is converted from other energy
humble yacht
How many stars died that we might live?
gilded mason
I guess... >=0
craggy sierra
What Iâm reading out of this is that the didactâs ship uses Ricks car battery from rick and morty
terse lava
I would think the forerunners keep the mantle in the way they consume universes. Right at the moment of the big bang before life can come
If they waited until the universes fully formed with life, Lifeworkers would throw a fit
clever fable
I'd like a short story of two Forerunners debating over it. Aborting a literal universe of possibilities, much less however many they have by the end of their era, doesn't look good no matter how you put it.
eternal oriole
What happened to the prophets after 3?
Im assuming the got removed from the covenant
But
I dont know what happened to them
gilded mason
Most of the surviving San'Shyuum left to parts unknown to make sure they aren't collectively killed as part of revenge.
eternal oriole
I see