Probably similar, yeah.
#lore-and-universe
gilded mason
mossy plover
Oh man I forgot the didact has psychic powers.
humble yacht
So getting composed ultimately made her weaker
queen otter
even Force Choking?
gilded mason
They shoulda' given her a better shell, then. No respect for her position, I tells ya.
mossy plover
Is this endurance of will in the games at all?
mossy plover
Really, which one?
humble yacht
like is he using the force or something
Most likely constraint fields
I think you can find Endurance as a boss on Darkstar
gilded mason
Ah, yes.
mossy plover
Is she a knight?
humble yacht
She’s a knight commander with a heart seeker
gilded mason
...lol that filename
mossy plover
Wait, I thought the prometheans were human?
gilded mason
No, some were.
humble yacht
Some used to be human
The first prometheans were didact’s personal forerunner fighting force
They also became the first promethean knights
humble yacht
There are no elite Promethean knights, if that’s what you mean
gilded mason
I imagine there are some composed Elites and Grunts there somewhere
mossy plover
I was more wondering about the dog and baby looking ones
fair hazel
Warrior servants all has constraint fields.
It’s standard ... not something the didact has others sont
Don’t
fair hazel
..?
They all had that tech.
Bornstellar was saved by constrain fields on maethrillian
humble yacht
Bioterror is pretty effective
fair hazel
It’s a multipurpose toool
mossy plover
As time goes on I find myself less and less impressed by the forerunners.
humble yacht
I’m glad they were fallible
round comet
they were hypocrites, sure. but they were far better than humans or anything else.
in terms of tech
nology
mossy plover
Guilty spark, the didact, the prometheans, I guess the librarian was chill. Except that she foresaw all of this and doesn't seem to have done much to prevent it.
humble yacht
She worked on the conservation measure
fair hazel
What do you mean foresaw all of this
mossy plover
Didn't she say that in halo 4, that she planned chief and Cortana?
humble yacht
She put seeds in humanity that would lead to people like Chief and Cortana existing
fair hazel
She hid geas in humans so they’d eventually achieve stuff like that.
fair hazel
Geas..
humble yacht
To give humanity the tools it would need to one day claim the mantle
gilded mason
She wanted humanity to have a headstart in reacquiring what the Forerunners took from them
fair hazel
Oh to what end not how
mossy plover
So I guess her plan failed then? Since the created have taken over?
fair hazel
Humans aren’t dead
mossy plover
Well I guess we know humans win in the end
humble yacht
Well it’s not like the librarian expected humanity to be ready to claim the mantle by the 26th century
gilded mason
For the best that her plan fails, really.
mossy plover
Well if an AI like Cortana was something she wanted to be created, does that imply she also wanted this to happen?
humble yacht
You know, despite how advanced forerunner AI were compared to human ai, not one we know of ever thought to themselves “you know what? I bet we could run the galaxy better than the forerunners”
So Cortana gets points for creativity
fair hazel
The best laid plans of mice and forerunners
mossy plover
I'm kinda looking forward to battling Cortana in infinite, that could be good stuff.
Dramatic
humble yacht
Since Cortana can create a hard light construct of herself now, I wonder if she can give it battle capabilities
Imagine Cortana firing a hadoken
mossy plover
And she knows our weaknesses, she can create jackal snipers
Or I guess just hire them
carmine sleet
Nah, Cortana would recreate Durandal if she was going to recreate any legendary sword
fair hazel
Cortana with durandal and joyeuse
round comet
never thought id see the day
humble yacht
Did Cortana use constraint fields on blue team in H5, or was that just the cryptum activating?
round comet
probably the former?
carmine sleet
I'd assumed constraint fields
humble yacht
It didn’t flare their shields the same way Didact did
fair hazel
A form of constraint fields. But not as aggressive I think. John was able to move his hand.
humble yacht
It was like a blue field appearing over them while with Didact, it was a colorless aberration of the air that cause john’s personal shielding to flicker
fair hazel
Probably due to how aggressive he was with it
humble yacht
Also it only appeared after the cryptum started whirring up
Makes me think it was the cryptum and not Cortana herself
fair hazel
It appeared then she has her moment
humble yacht
The Didact used his hands to indicate he was using the ability. He may not have had to but presentation-wise it’s used so we the audience know it’s him
Cortana didn’t have any such indication that the constraint was by her directly
humble yacht
That was an interesting ability
It would make sense for forerunner smart matter but how she did it with human tech is weird
round comet
lets hope we get an explanation then
humble yacht
She should just go around the galaxy and disappear everyone’s guns
Boom, no more war
Perfect plan
round comet
yeahhhhh the guardians are practically useless here
humble yacht
Cortana be like “what’s second amendment?”
round comet
||the guardians killed a few people||
carmine sleet
Bit more than a few people
fair hazel
Halo 5 centuries in the future..
But, we see linda with the nornfang again so
I think she just put them away
humble yacht
There’s more than one nornfang
round comet
Bit more than a few people
desperate times, desperate measures.
versed helm
Did someone say "We're Desperate The Measures"?
fair hazel
Nornfang is a unique weapon
versed helm
What's unique about it (other than the explosive rounds)?
humble yacht
It’s unique in its specs and it’s specs can be replicated
It’s not like she picked up the same nornfang before leaving genesis
round comet
hey
humble yacht
Cortana be like “pick up your belongings from the front desk on your way out!”
versed helm
There are some problems with the cutscenes in H5, there are several shots where Linda is holding a regular SR99 and Nornfang in the same scene.
round comet
so i just saw the cortana scene in h5 and when cortana is approaching cheif LINDA TURNS ON THE PROTECTIVE SISTER MODE nd steps in front of him
nice touch there
carmine sleet
If only Chief didn't stop her
round comet
yeahhhhhhhhhh
fair hazel
Nornfang was a weapon created by misriah Armoury specifically made for their internal competitions. It went missing as Linda stole it and tuned it further
She also decorated it
Think she did it herself or she asked kelly?
fair hazel
Special commission for her sister
fair hazel
87% or 58%?
versed helm
While listening to Queen
I think that band would be buried in the past.
carmine sleet
I'm guessing you've not heard about how Kelly listening to Queen was something cut from Shadows of Reach in very early drafts due to potential copyright reasons
limpid meadow
I think that band would be buried in the past.
That stuff is your history!
stoic hamlet
If the Created wanna wipe out this part of my history, that’s fine by me!
carmine sleet
Honestly, it's a shame that it was cut
limpid meadow
If the Created wanna wipe out this part of my history, that’s fine by me!
I have unsavory words I wish to declare at you
versed helm
Don't cling on to the past.
That stuff is your history!
stoic hamlet
But....but that’s the quote..... D: I just changed Covenant to Created.
craggy sierra
Didn’s first strike say Johnson was listening to slayer or something?
versed helm
I personally find Queen to be ridiculously overrated.
fair hazel
Wait.
carmine sleet
Johnson is known to listen to flip music
fair hazel
Maybe it can’t be written that she listened to queen etc
But what if, it was said in a canon fodder
stoic hamlet
You could easily find a way to have her supposedly listen to “some old music with the title of royalty” or something.
versed helm
It would be dumb, she's listening to a track from over 500 years ago.
craggy sierra
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen literature name drop famous bands before and not get sued out of existence.
stoic hamlet
I mean, people routinely listen to classical music today.
carmine sleet
It would be dumb, she's listening to a track from over 500 years ago.
You'd be surprised at how old some songs are that are still sung to this day
versed helm
A minority do, yes.
I mean, people routinely listen to classical music today.
craggy sierra
I think the only thing stopping us from listening to stuff from 500 years ago is that we never had recording equipment
That being said people do still perform and recite music from around that long ago still
versed helm
You'd be surprised at how old some songs are that are still sung to this day
You're probably referring to hymns.
craggy sierra
I mean that was probably like the 1600s Beyonce
fair hazel
I sing a song that’s over 400 years old a lot.
carmine sleet
I'm not thinking of Church hymns, Elite
craggy sierra
Granted they probably are the best example
versed helm
Good for you, you don't represent the majority of Earth's population.
I sing a song that’s over 400 years old a lot.
craggy sierra
Beethoven composed in the 1700s and his music is still incredibly wide spread today
limpid meadow
And 1 Spartan listening to Queen doesn't represent all of Humanity in the 26th century
craggy sierra
Like I said above the only reason we probably don't listen to music from 500 years ago today is because good quality recording never came around until like more than halfway through the 20th century
stoic hamlet
Going back to Nornfang......I don’t like that Linda stole it, IMO it doesn’t suit her.
fair hazel
And a fair portion of people seem to be familiar with it.
Why not?
Like if people here
limpid meadow
And even then, a lot of people do listen to classical music
stoic hamlet
It doesn’t suit anyone in Blue Team to steal it, IMO.
craggy sierra
I mean aren't these also the people who became a bit known for beating the crap out of other people during training exercises?
stoic hamlet
Beating someone with excessive force doesn’t equal stealing
craggy sierra
I'm not too familiar with blue team's lore but I'm pretty sure one of the books does say that one of them is a bit of a rebel and not exactly prone to treating people's belongings with respect.
limpid meadow
To be fair, the description for Nornfang doesn't say Linda stole, just that it went missing.
But even then, Spartans acquiring their own requisition via unknown means isn't too far out of left field.
carmine sleet
I mean aren't these also the people who became a bit known for beating the crap out of other people during training exercises?
If I recall, Chief beat up a squad of ODSTs in a "friendly" sparing match, killing a couple with single punches after he was recently augmented if I recall correctly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
limpid meadow
Is it all that different than how they mysteriously acquired the black suits in Reach's titanium mines?
If I recall, Chief beat up a squad of ODSTs in a "friendly" sparing match, killing a couple with single punches after he was recently augmented if I recall correctly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong
@carmine sleet That's basically correct, but Chief never meant to kill them. He didn't yet know his own strength
stoic hamlet
But that’s what I mean though.
It went missing, so why didn’t Linda return it upon finding it?
IMO to me it just seems a little too “We need this description to sound cool” without thinking of the characters.
limpid meadow
Why would Linda return it?
carmine sleet
That's basically correct, but Chief never meant to kill them. He didn't yet know his own strength
Aye, thought so
limpid meadow
Why not hold onto it?
craggy sierra
idk I feel like I remember hearing that that's not exactly outside of Linda's character.
limpid meadow
@carmine sleet And later in life, during the Mk V test, John goes out of his way to avoid killing ODSTs during the exercise because he doesn't want to needlessly harm fellow service members
carmine sleet
Indeed
stoic hamlet
Is it all that different than how they mysteriously acquired the black suits in Reach's titanium mines?
It is. The black suits were presumably stolen from Drill Instructors in a combat situation. They weren’t a prized, one of a kind item.
Linda just doesn’t seem the type to steal/otherwise keep contraband items.
versed helm
I just can't see a Spartan listening to Queen.
craggy sierra
This just in: Spartan's are people too
stoic hamlet
I’m aware
craggy sierra
Contrary to what Bungie tried to say about the chief
carmine sleet
Tortured people, but still people
limpid meadow
Linda just doesn’t seem the type to steal/otherwise keep contraband items.
@stoic hamlet While it's not the same, she established an intelligence network to spy on her teachers before she was abducted.
She's a sneaky individual
stoic hamlet
And John was a bully.
versed helm
This just in: Spartan's are people too
When did I say that they weren't?
stoic hamlet
That’s before the indoctrination, the years of training and the like.
limpid meadow
Not everything can be trained out of you.
stoic hamlet
I wouldn’t mind if the rifle had been gifted to her, for like, field testing, but having it stolen just seems unlike her. We have no other real examples of her stealing things.
I suppose that’s more my problem with it.
limpid meadow
Also, while I don't have any military experience of my own, in the series The Pacific, we see Army soldiers stealing newer equipment from another company.
stoic hamlet
That did happen historically
limpid meadow
So is it that crazy for service members to acquire stuff for themselves?
craggy sierra
Also what are they going to do if they catch Linda stealing anyways? Court marshal her and kick her out of the UNSC?
versed helm
Doesn't Cutter own a cat?
carmine sleet
I doubt there's many that would want to do anything that would potentially put them on the wrong side of a Spartan
stoic hamlet
Canadian troops also ditched their Ross rifles for Lee-Enfield’s during WW1, but both examples are of mass produced equipment not a one of a kind rifle.
How would she have even been able to steal it?
Presumably it was either kept on display, or secured in some special area.
carmine sleet
Casually walking out of a secure facility with it in an unmarked case?
craggy sierra
I feel like the UNSC is just sort of in a weird position with Spartan 2's where they can't really punish them for acting out of line and they just get a bunch of free reign
carmine sleet
But seriously, no clue
stoic hamlet
And I know Spartans are good, but IDK, I just don’t see anyone in Blue Team looking at a weapon used by an ally/friendly and thinking “i’mma steal that.”
stoic hamlet
I’d like other examples of it
carmine sleet
I mean, we kinda do that all the time in game
stoic hamlet
I’d argue it’s a different scenario, and there’s no real indication of that in the lore.
Usually Spartans stick to what they initially have.
Or scavenge from the dead.
versed helm
On an unrelated note, is there any solid evidence that indicates Marcus Stacker being in the Battle of Installation 04?
stoic hamlet
My problem isn’t necessarily that the rifle was stolen, it’s that it’s seemingly the onlY indication that Blue Team ever steals anything.
Show me more examples of it, or actually show a progression to one of them stealing items over the series and I’d be fine with it.
But we don’t really get that.
versed helm
That makes me question if Jorge got his "modifications" legally.
limpid meadow
He likely requisitioned them through official channels.
How Halsey intended Mjolnir to work and how the UNSC implemented it have never really matched up
craggy sierra
idk, I can see one of the spartans doing that
Hell didn't blue team collectively just yoink a Pelican to go do whatever in H5?
gilded mason
Prowler, I believe
stoic hamlet
Before they went Rogue? No. They were operating out of Infinity.
craggy sierra
When they went rogue specifically
stoic hamlet
It was a Prowler. But tbf, the station was about to explode.
So they didn’t really steal it from like, a hanger full of UNSC personnel.
stoic hamlet
They stole it
Obviously
But they didn’t like, beat up a guard or whatever to do so. No one would have missed that Prowler.
craggy sierra
Also the act of going rogue in and of itself and how quickly and unanimously they went along with it makes it seem like they were probably a bit jaded of the UNSC before hand and I can see with the level of autonomy they're given and basically zero possibilities for consequences that they'd probably help themselves here and there to some stuff
carmine sleet
Well, yeah but Argent Moon was going boom
stoic hamlet
Sure, maybe. @craggy sierra
But we don’t see any of that beforehand. We don’t see them jaded, we don’t see them jokingly suggest to steal items, we see no progression.
It’s just sort of shoved onto us and we’re supposed to take it as something that’s always happened.
Which is a lot of 343 stuff, now that I think about it.
craggy sierra
Do you not see the super soldier who was stolen from her home as a kid and given full autonomy not being a bit jaded towards the people she works for?
stoic hamlet
They never had full autonomy. At least not initially.
Granted, the books slowly are going in this direction, both of the Early War Denning books have John and the other II’s basically flout the chain of command repeatedly with no consequences because Halsey (and Cole for some reason) let them.
So I suppose it’s retroactively being explained, but I’d have preferred if it was explained and at least hinted beforehand. Again, like a lot of 343 stuff.
My problem isn’t that it’s happening, it’s the methods that are being used to show it’s happening.
craggy sierra
I mean if you're going to start giving a character a personality years after their creation then it's hard to really explain it ever.
stoic hamlet
You definitely could.
craggy sierra
I think it's telling that this wiki page literally only talks about her being good with a sniper and a bit of a lone wolf for the "personality and description" part.
stoic hamlet
Had they used the early war books to hint to this before Halo 5, or used Last Light or Retribution it wouldn’t be so jarring.
Literally all you need to do is have a single line in Last Light that says “over the years Linda had increasingly become perfectionist when it came to her weapon, tinkering with it far in excess of what was usual to try and make it as perfect as possible, often pursuing less than official modifications.”
Then, you can say “oh, well, that explains why she stole Nornfang before Halo 5.”
versed helm
What did people think of Last Light?
gilded mason
Most people really like it, as far as I know.
feral perch
Last Light is kinda boring to me.
I despise Intrepid Eye. Like, she has zero likeable qualities.
Retribution is better.
Still, only Fred really got attention in either. I feel like only Nylund really cared about Linda, or knew how to characterize her.
versed helm
I didn't enjoy Last Light that much.
feral perch
Lone Wolf is jarring compared to her other appearances, that’s for sure.
versed helm
I keep forgetting what happens.
So I read it again, then remind myself why I disliked the book.
Then again, I preferred New Blood so people will immediately discredit my opinion.
fair hazel
I shall talk about this, but not right now.
versed helm
I'm probably going to be asleep by then.
queen otter
Does anybody know where the San ‘Shyuum are as of Halo 5?
I know most of them stayed at High Charity but after it was almost destroyed where did they go?
gilded mason
The hierarches are all dead. But most of the surviving San'Shyuum left to parts unknown to make sure they aren't collectively killed as part of revenge.
craggy sierra
Probably not their worst decision honestly
queen otter
Oop sorry I put Hierarchs I meant San ‘Shyuum
But yeah not a bad idea of them to do that actually.
mossy plover
Blue team "going rogue" in halo 5 was funny because Chief is like "No Kelly" but she's just getting on the prowler that is the only way off of an exploding ship.
jolly furnace
Oh yeah
Like the station gonna blow so how else do they get off
Dumb call by MC there telling them not to join him on the ship
solar lily
has anything changed societally at all outside of nation states kind of coalescing? 560 years is a long time for human society to be functionally... identical to the 1990s lol
craggy sierra
More or less
obsidian thistle
Yes a lot has changed. Every colony has different ways to function. So thus will be different.
solar lily
what has changed
obsidian thistle
A lot. (Like I hate to be vauge but like its really a lot)
craggy sierra
I mean Halo hasn't exactly gone into the explicit changes of human society cause we were busy getting styled on by alien samurai lizards for 25 years and then most of the content that's come out after the war has been focused on dealing with the changes inherent from the war itself.
gilded mason
samurai
waffle pls
craggy sierra
Look I'm not saying they're specifically samurais, I'm just saying they're obsessed with honor, pride, and swords
gilded mason
Call 'em knights! For me..?
craggy sierra
They literally do combat practice with Bo Staff's in the H2A terminal in a room that seems to have bamboo flooring.
gilded mason
Writers have also said they wrote a lot of their culture in mind using the Norse and medieval Europe.
craggy sierra
Yeah that whole thing with the family stuff and sending kids off with Uncles is something from Norse culture isn't it?
gilded mason
And their blood stuff
craggy sierra
Or at least I feel like I've heard something like that from there
gilded mason
And a lot of Sanghelios is based off of Manorialism
craggy sierra
I was kinda into reading a lot of Gintama around the time I first played Halo so I was just like "yep, dats samurais"
gilded mason
lol
fair hazel
I re-read lone wolf fyi for this but im doing stuff
mossy plover
Wait, are they not supposed to be samurai-like?
That's how I've always thought of them.
There was that little movie where there was like a full tilt elite samurai.
shy dock
The honor thing definitely draws from Asian culture
gilded mason
The guy who wrote their honor thing said he based much of that aspect off the Norse.
shy dock
Ah, just assumed it was Asian.
gilded mason
Many do. 😔
mossy plover
I assume its because as soon as American audiences hear the world "honor" they think of Bushido and all that.
gilded mason
Probably.
shy dock
Japan’s culture is tied to honor. That’s not really a stereotype
Not that I’m an expert on the Japanese
Took a couple classes in high school
No to mention the elites fixation on swordsmen, which draws parallels to samurai being the only ones allowed to carry katanas
jolly furnace
Why are we still on this debate?
shy dock
Not to imply the Japanese are the only ones who do this
If you want to talk about something else
jolly furnace
Elite cutlure draws from many cultures
gilded mason
Ye
jolly furnace
I'm sorry. It;s just I thought this debate was settled
gilded mason
It pops up again every so often.
jolly furnace
I suppose
shy dock
I just got here, wasn’t aware it was going on for long
shy dock
Was just gonna close with saying that the similarities to Japanese culture are mostly surface level. Especially with the info ostral has provided me
jolly furnace
I mean I first thought Samurai when I saw Elites in Halo
The swords mainly
and the honor thing mentioned in 2
The manual mentions it specifically I think
mossy plover
But I did have a lore question, does anybody know more about the criteria for spartan II selection? I understand that Halsey was very particular about it, but was it just a matter of IQ or something?
shy dock
Genes were a factor if I recall correctly
gilded mason
but was it just a matter of IQ or something?
Nah, genetic markers for being able to survive the augmentation process.
jolly furnace
S3's were similar just not as strict
shy dock
How was s3 augmentation compared to s2? They had streamlined it to make it less dangerous right
gilded mason
Yes.
jolly furnace
I wonder how ancient human augments are like.
mossy plover
Was it like a psuedo-euginics thing? Like she selected for desirable traits?
jolly furnace
Those with the genes most suited to the augmentation process were chosen
Best chance of survival and best results
mossy plover
Oh I see, so it was more about surviving the process than being a better spartan?
shy dock
Also in johns case they literally flipped a coin to see if he was a good match lol
jolly furnace
They only chose those who met the strict profile
and that Ko
She was testing John's reactions skills i think too
John figured where it would land
mossy plover
Doesn't seem very scientific but okay lol. But that's interesting, I'm guessing they keep it vague on what exactly she looked for in the recruits.
shy dock
To be fair in 500 years our understanding of genes will hopefully be deeper
jolly furnace
If we survive that long
shy dock
Doubt we’ll be wiped out by then. Don’t know if this is halo talk though
jolly furnace
I mean if we dont fix that global warming issue within a couple centuries i think we're screwed
mossy plover
So how long did the covenant war last?
gilded mason
About 27 years
mossy plover
For some reason I thought it was way longer than that.
But the spartan IIs were around that whole time right?
gilded mason
Yes.
shy dock
Spartans date before the covenant
jolly furnace
I wonder if Ancient human agumenting was similar to forerunner mutations or SPARTAN ones
shy dock
They were created to be used against rebels
mossy plover
How long abouts would spartans have spent in cryo during those 27 years, assuming they were constantly going on missions and stuff?
gilded mason
No idea, myself.
mossy plover
I'm wondering how old the spartan IIs are generally
I guess red team pretty much sat out the whole thing so they're fine.
shy dock
Well Chief is chronologically 46 as of halo 5
But he spent 4 consecutive years in cryo sleep so 42 is his max biological age
Not to mention his augmentations slowing down his aging. Look to sgt Johnson for proof of that
Johnson is (incredibly) 70 years old in halo 3
mossy plover
But is that for real or like a joke?
shy dock
Johnson’s age? He is absolutely that old as of his death
His spartan 1 augmentations are presumably to thank for his graceful aging
mossy plover
I always thought him being alive even when it was impossible was more of like a running gag than a rule. Like in halo 2 when they make the joke about how he escaped the first halo.
shy dock
There is a whole book about how he escaped installation 04
gilded mason
It was revealed how he lived in First Strike.
mossy plover
Sure, but that wasn't intended was it?
shy dock
In halo CE he didn’t even have a name. He was just a placeholder “sgt.” Character
So originally no, that wasn’t the intention. But a lot of things were changed retroactively in halo 1
jolly furnace
I don't recall augments slowing down the aging process
Heck the Bestarium has GS note MC still suffers from homo sapiens truncated lifespan
shy dock
I don’t think there’s a lore source for it. But a normal 70 year old wouldn’t still be in active duty
jolly furnace
Well it might make him have more vitality
but it may not prolong his life exponentially
And he was in cryo
and graphics keep changing
shy dock
I mean it’s not like bungie didn’t know how to model old people. And his status as a spartan 1 was solidified by the time halo 3 was released so personally I think it was intentional
But you can disagree for sure
jolly furnace
He looks younger in H2A graphics then HCEA ones or H2 ones
gilded mason
I think Johnson himself talked about how he had cumulatively spent decades in cyro.
jolly furnace
and then in H3 he looks way older
despite only months between 2 and 3
I'll need to refresh how long he was in cryo
shy dock
Idk halo 2 classic Johnson looks fairly old
Not as old as his age would indicate though
jolly furnace
yeah and look at him in H2A graphics
I assume his H3 graphics represent his canonical look right now by time of death
shy dock
Well are we to take the anniversary graphics as the new canon? Personally I think if there’s a contradiction the classic graphics should take precedent but idk if 343 has ever commented on it
mossy plover
Because when we see part of Chief's face in halo 4... well he looks pretty bad.
jolly furnace
I think canon its said anniversary graphics are canon
shy dock
Eyes age first to be fair
He could have the body of Hercules and some old wrinkly eye sockets
jolly furnace
MC looks wrinkled, pale, worn, tired etc
Yeah his body will be Herculean but his face
gilded mason
Ah, here we are:
You didn’t age in cryo-sleep, but time passed all the same. Avery figured he’d spent at least as much time asleep as awake since he’d joined the marines.
gilded mason
Yeah
shy dock
That is substantial If it’s not an exaggeration
jolly furnace
That'll slow his aging
shy dock
How old was he as of that?
jolly furnace
his chronological age wont reflect his biological one
shy dock
How old was he chronologically I should say
jolly furnace
80 i think
shy dock
As of that passage
gilded mason
That was in 2525, and he was born around-ish 2480, joined the marines in 2499, so he'd spend 13 in cryo as of that moment
shy dock
Wow yeah
jolly furnace
So he's 13 years at least off his biological age
gilded mason
Though of course, only if he never went into cryo again after the war started
shy dock
So while he was 70 at his death his max biological age was 57
jolly furnace
his augmented healing with likely slow down his visible aging
gilded mason
Which he might actually get into greater frequency after the war began
shy dock
Plus any other stints in the freezer In between then and his death
gilded mason
So he might be in his 40s
jolly furnace
Regardless I don't think Spartans can live much longer naturally then unaugmented humans
shy dock
Definitely possible
Maybe not. Johnson was my biggest piece of evidence and that doesn’t hold up
jolly furnace
Especially given tier 1 humans apparently couldn't even go 1000 years without aging
and they needed advanced science and augments for that
beyond current humanity's
So I call BS if Spartans can go 100s of years without aging or at peak health naturally
Heck their lifespan isn't even natural in the first place given they are augmented
mossy plover
I would have thought that spartans aged faster tbh, like burning twice as bright but half as long logic.
jolly furnace
I think the augmented healing factor slows down the process
at least visibly
maybe not internally
mossy plover
Of course stress probably ain't doing them any favors either.
jolly furnace
Like Cap's augments make him much healthier and fitter then even the peak fittest unaugmented human and he's 100 years old now in MCU
but he's clearly shown his age
and will likely not live much longer
torpid lily
Did arbiter say “trans rights” in cannon 😳
gilded mason
Yes.
solar lily
canon*
@torpid lily I doubt the Arbiter is aware of what communism is, though I wouldn't put it past Sangheili researchers to look through human history for inspiration for their own future society
torpid lily
Dam ✊
solar lily
yeah looking over halopedia, looks like the UNSC functioned much like USA imperialism along with CIA terrorist activities
they brutally suppressed a communist revolution in... the 2160s
Subsequently, the remaining Koslovic forces throughout the system were systematically destroyed by the UNSC during the Interplanetary War between 2164 and 2170,[1] and they formally surrendered to the UNSC in 2170 with the Callisto Treaty.
kinda plays out like the Resistance War Against America except this time America won
i highly recommend just reading through that link
torpid lily
That is stupid. We should’ve abolished the state and dismantled capitalism much earlier
solar lily
it's possible some separatist planets/cultures eventually did that, though idk
so much of human civilization in 255x Halo appears identical to 1990s Earth that it's hard to tell lol
torpid lily
But does arbiter support trans rights 😳
solar lily
no clue, which is one of the things the halo universe also leaves static
gender as a whole
it appears to be a binarist universe, which is distinctly ahistorical, so the Halo universe appears to be a universe distinct from ours
in that universe, as far as I have read (only like 6 books so far), there is no mention of transness at all. for all we know, it might not exist at all in that universe
there certainly wouldn't be a need for the UNSC to be as gendered as it is
torpid lily
G a y rights?
solar lily
i believe the arbiter stands for lgbtq rights
torpid lily
Based
fair hazel
In the future, I think those things would be easier, at least for humans, so transitioning should be much simplier later. and there are characters that have same attraction
covert epoch
Hey guys I had a question. According to the lore, Noble team delivers Cortana’s fragment to the Pillar of Autumn AFTER the battle at Reach Station Gamma. However in the novel The Fall of Reach, after John arrives back at the PoA with Linda he interacts with Captain Keyes for a short time, then they jump into slipspace and finally arrive at Installation 04. The novel doesn’t even indicate a time gap where they go back to Reach and get Cortana’s fragment delivered to them. In fact Master Chief is present at the moment they jump into slipspace but when playing Halo Reach you can even see him in the cryo chamber for a split second. Is there something I’m missing, is it a plot hole or do they elaborate further on another novel??
fair hazel
it was shoehorned, and the cryo chamber isnt a canon thing
there was a timegap but shoehorned in due to having to fix canon
covert epoch
I believe you but where is it explained that they had to do it to “fix canon”? @fair hazel Pretty odd leaving something as important out of the novel
fair hazel
the fall of reach was the first piece of halo fiction that came out nine years prior to halo reach
covert epoch
Hmm so basically everything Noble Team went through wasn’t even considered
fair hazel
Nope. It was different. Reach fell in a single day
covert epoch
Yeah I wasn’t aware that the novel came out so long ago. That’s why I was left scratching my head after the end lol I was literally waiting for them to go back and meet up with Noble Six
versed vigil
Didn't they rerealease the Fall of Reach to incorporate the Halo Reach game events?
fair hazel
thats how halo started
no
they had a publisher thing, not a rerlease for reach
halo wa a book fikrst
versed vigil
Yeah, but I thought the had changed some things in the book in later editions to fix continuity and stuff?
covert epoch
I just checked and they released a “Definitive” version of the novel some years later
versed vigil
Alright
fair hazel
Not for reach though
carmine moss
Yeah for reach
fair hazel
No. They didn’t do it for halo reach
carmine moss
Yourdaddy literally just checked, and confirmed they released a definitive version some years later...
covert epoch
Yeah I was talking about the novel
carmine moss
^^
covert epoch
Aw I can’t post pictures here but yeah it says so on the wiki
stoic hamlet
The rereleased edition fixed some issues with the wider universe but had no additional stuff to reconcile the game and the book.
That was primarily done through Halsey’s Journal.
fair hazel
People think linda wouldn’t steal nornfang?
That wouldn’t be out of character for her.
Do people think spartans became these super rule abiding people? Like robots or something? That’s quite wrong.
Spartans-II were molded trained yes but they weren’t completely broken to be these loyal unsc lapdogs. Doctor Chen was very wrong in assuming so too.
The Spartans, with John being probably the one who resisted the most before finally giving in. However John is a special case because he was the leader. He was basically trained to put this side of himself aside. But even then, if he could do it elseway he did try.
Linda was sneaky alright. As already noted she did set up a network early on. However after. Many years of war, especially at the end. Linda had become her own. She was calm and had Her Zen that she practiced. But, she also had a mind of her own. She may not have shown it explicitly but linda didn’t like blindly following orders. So she wasn’t the cold calculated killer that was activated to do everything needed. A threat was a threat. But Linda did want to make sure of that before committing to the act.
She may be the deadliest spartan, but whoever found herself at the end of the scope is something she judged. She was the Norn. And her weapon was the fang. She decided and judged who died and lived. She still has to follow orders to not get in trouble and of course she has humanity’s interests at heart. But she doesn’t blindly execute them.
This was demonstrated very much by the events on sephune III. She would fire or not fire as needed. She made herself known if she wanted to, or was invisible if she didn’t want you to know she was there. Her interest was protecting and saving others. Because it was what he fought for. Not, a mere hitwoman deployed to fire and forget with no disregard. She calculated her actions, and she thought about them.
When faced with killing doctor Chen, she did not want to kill another human without proper motive.
fair hazel
So she pushed her orders to stay out of trouble as far as she could. Her questioning and trying to find out more did lead her to uncovering more. She did not blindly follow orders, she did what she thought was right to the maximum of her capability.
She protected others. Even on nethrerop, she wanted to protect the castaways. They were humans too, and she wanted to ensure wveryone lived. She’d try to at least. Same as the survivors following doctor Chen. Some people were misguided and deluded. But they were still human. As long as they weren’t direct threats.
She’d try to figure out people, understand. And then she’d make her judgement, or offer her counterpoints.
She was contemplative too, philosophical you could say. The covenant? She killed because she had to, to stop killing more humans. She’d think about it and things.
Linda would try to minimize conflict and blame when possible. This was evident when she protected a survivor who torched her ship. Her trying to find the motives of people is also evident when she questions another survivor and Chen. She tries to coax out the answers out of them.
And yes, she does try to hold on and rmemeber the past she had. As faint as it was, she’d remmeber her mother. “You’re stuck with me kid, and I’ll always be there for you” I paraphrase but, she hung on to that memory.
She’d give the chance to make the right choice. Opportunity. Doctor Chen assumes she was a. Blind dog. But she wasn’t. She followed what was right to her. She was free. Her indoctrination had been broken, and in it’s stead, there was her mind and rationale.
brazen quartz
hexed sand
I think I hopped in the wrong channel
fair hazel
Linda was her own person. What she did, she’d do out of her judgement. Of course, she’d have to follow orders but as I said, push it as much as she could.
She may be the deadliest spartan, but dispensing the kill wasn’t an action dispensed senselessly. The foil of her deadliness, was her judgement. For she knew when not to kill. She was the judge and arbiter of life. The decider of fates. She was the Norn. And her weapon? Her nornfang?
She had it in her to steal something wasted away in competition. A weapon so finely crafted needed to be in better custody and better hands. What good would it do, not seeing action at the hands of the deadliest human? It was the dispenser of judgement. Better in her hands anyways. Customized and tweaked, ready for the kill; when necessary. Life had a beginning and an end. It did not have to be short however, but sometimes, it was her duty to shorten it.
Linda Pravdin is her own person, with her own mind and philosophy. The best spartan who ever lived is the Norn herself. And her weapon, is the nornfang.
versed helm
I don't think she's the best Spartan, determining that is based off of opinions and preferences.
I personally find her to be pretty bland.
hexed sand
what about my guy Emile
carmine sleet
He doesn't really do all that much in the grand scheme of things
versed helm
Emile is just an angsty teenager in the body of an adult male.
His dialogue is pretty cringeworthy too.
But I think that Emile makes a very good example for the Spartan 3s, orphaned child soldiers who just want revenge.
hexed sand
The main issue I had with reach characters was that their combat voice lines were cool at first but got tiresome after 5 minutes
Like on the mission with jorge when you're following the zealots he just says "laying down heavy fire" and "direct hit" over and over again
versed helm
The main issue I had with reach characters was that their combat voice lines were cool at first but got tiresome after 5 minutes
@hexed sand Yeah, you're right, I believe that Jorge has the most generic dialogue.
Jun has some varying dialogue at least.
hexed sand
In the main line halo games, you get John and cortana actually conversing
I would have liked to see something like that in Reach, where Six talks to the rest of the team during a fight or something
versed helm
Meh, I don't think that Six should have; he's grown accustomed to working alone.
I wish that the friendship between him and Jorge strengthened though.
Jorge seemed to really respect Six. @hexed sand
hexed sand
Yeah like at one of the best (my favourite) cutscene in the game, where Jorge detonates the bomb. It would have been nice to see some shred of emotion from Six, even though he's a lone wolf.
If I remember correctly all he says is "that's a one way trip"
versed helm
That's what I like about him though, he's very subtle about things.
hexed sand
I guess it's ok though, with the rest of the group showing their feelings when six tells them
versed helm
He's supposed to represent the input of the player.
How different would the Great Schism be had Xytan 'Jar Wattinree lived?
Very, lmao.
And the human allegiance would have taken longer to form.
Would Jul have been basically a lackey for Xytan or what?
Probably not, I can see a similar relationship to Rtas and Thel's forming.
And probably would've glassed Doisac if given the chance
Well, he's dead now anyway.
Actually... both are.
Imho,how they killed Jul in Halo 5 was stupid
Yes, it really was.
God,everything about that game was pathetic
I'd say yes for the most part but it had some redeeming qualities.
carmine sleet
Gameplay itself was very fun, Forge was fantastic
versed helm
I still hate the game though.
I've been wondering something about the different regions of Earth in the Halo universe
What is both the Middle East and Eastern Europe,along with a few others like in the Halo universe?
craggy sierra
Cold and sandy respectively I’d imagine
versed helm
What Earth nations still exist besides the URNA?
carmine sleet
Kenya, Tanzania, Australia, China, Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Japan, Cuba, Brazil, Ecuador, Britain and Germany are the known nations to still exist
versed helm
What about the Greater Czechoslovakian Authority?
carmine sleet
Are you looking on Halopedia?
Because the list there has all the known nations to still exist by the time we reach the events of Halo
versed helm
I'm doing that right now
Also,when did the Greater Czechoslovakian Authority first form?
carmine sleet
If there isn't a date on Halopedia, unknown
versed helm
Sucks that Halo Online got canned
craggy sierra
Do those countries still even have internal governments?
I feel like at the point where you can jump across galaxies in a few hours, on world borders probably start meaning a lot less.
humble yacht
Kenya, Tanzania, Australia, China, Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Japan, Cuba, Brazil, Ecuador, Britain and Germany are the known nations to still exist
I guess Wakanda didn’t last forever 😏
craggy sierra
Good
carmine sleet
Chimera, please, they just went into hiding again
craggy sierra
We need them to make movies for the rest of time
actually wait, that's bad
I misread what you said
Wakaliwood is dead in Halo lore and idk how to parse this
Now we'll never learn who killed Captain Alex
humble yacht
It was the Video Jockey
versed helm
So has Anvil Station or the Midnight Facility been compromised by the Created yet?
carmine sleet
Unknown
versed helm
What about those Munera platforms or whatever they were called?
carmine sleet
Unknown
dusk osprey
hello there
versed helm
Sucks that Halo Online got canned
@versed helm Didn't it have lore as well?
True,but it would've been awesome to play that game
lethal comet
hello there
@dusk osprey General Kenobi
limpid meadow
It did have quite a bit of lore, yeah, most of which is no longer canon
At this point, I think all that remains canon is the ANVIL Initiative and the fact that there's an Anvil Station.
And that's only because it was all mentioned in other sources
dusk osprey
hello @lethal comet
what are you speaking about here ?
versed helm
How many time has an AI revolt been done besides Terminator?
carmine sleet
AI uprisings are in almost every sci-fi franchise
humble yacht
Not Star Wars
carmine sleet
I did say almost
Also, I think there's a point in the Old republic MMO where a droid attempts one
versed helm
Star wars AI isnt that advanced
carmine sleet
Some are more advanced than others
limpid meadow
Better question: how many times have AI revolts in sci-fi been about elevating the species they're "revolting" against?
carmine sleet
Not any as far as I know. They've normally been about enslaving or wiping out creators
The only one that stand out from the whole enslaving and wiping out idea that we know for sure would be the Geth from Mass Effect, since they just wanted freedom instead of being enslaved to the Quarians
craggy sierra
Mass Effect's Geth were an AI uprising
carmine sleet
Like, as much as I'd like to use the example of the Omnics from Overwatch, we just have so few details as to why the Omnics decided to attack in the first place or even if it was them who woke themselves up in the first place
lethal comet
Why did the smart AI Iona want to live? Other AI just accept their fate/
fair hazel
Did no one read linda?
versed helm
Yes, I did.
fair hazel
Only one who commented.. and I talked about her personality traits.
cyan thunder
Why don't the grunts require methane gas masks on requiem? Was it an artistic choice, or do these grunts not require breathers?
carmine sleet
The Grunts still require methane in Halo 4, they just don't use the old school masks
fair hazel
You mean halo 4 grunts? You can see the tube that provides them with methane..
What about you slipstream. Did you read linda
carmine sleet
I have not I'm afraid
Right now I'm kinda more focused on reading the Halo Battleborn novels and attempting to do my own level design briefs. Plus, pretty sure my nearest comic shop doesn't have anything Halo
fair hazel
O: I wrote it last night in bed.
No not halo lonewolf. What I wrote about linda last nivht
carmine sleet
Oh, I see. Give me a second
craggy sierra
They have nasal masks
humble yacht
I wonder how they respirate the methane
What does their cellular activity look like that they can use such a molecule
cyan thunder
Thanks folks.
carmine sleet
Ok, finished reading it Ericky, you raise many interesting points about Linda
cyan thunder
I just went back to read that too. It was pretty interesting
Right now I'm kinda more focused on reading the Halo Battleborn novels and attempting to do my own level design briefs. Plus, pretty sure my nearest comic shop doesn't have anything Halo
@carmine sleet are the battleborn novels good? I've not heard much about them.
I'm just finishing up rereading Kilo 5. And I'm unsure where to go next.
ebon mauve
The battleborn novels aren't terrible. They are decent YA novels, but definitely geared for a younger audience than the other books
There's some interesting backstory to meridian, but the characters aren't my favorite
fair hazel
I like all the halo novels
Thank you.
Hoping we get good bits from her in shadows of reach
gilded mason
Don't try to tag everyone.
But anyway:
During the Battle of Asźod, in the final hours of the Fall of Reach on August 30, 2552, the ship-breaking yards became the final off-planet extraction point on the Eposz continent.
torpid lily
I wanted to see the warning 😹
gilded mason
So they were either trying to get off-planet, or helping others escape.
torpid lily
Rip the spartan 3s but I’m different
carmine sleet
What do you mean you're different?
humble yacht
No memes, pls and thanks
torpid lily
K I’ll cry now
versed helm
Chimera, I have found a reasonable example of fan service being a detriment.
analog perch
One question how does elites honor work in the h2a terminal it shows elites hesitant to kill unarmed people yet I halo wars and halo 4 we see elites killing helpless civilians without remorse
?
versed helm
Storm Elites are different from what I understand.
analog perch
I meant in the halo 4 opening cutscene since it supposedly takes place in the past
humble yacht
When did halo 4 show civilians getting killed?
gilded mason
One question how does elites honor work in the h2a terminal it shows elites hesitant to kill unarmed people yet I halo wars and halo 4 we see elites killing helpless civilians without remorse```
Different Sangheili will have different ideas about honorLiterally in the beginning.
gilded mason
Or not consider "honor" at all.
analog perch
Ok
humble yacht
Storm elites were used as shock troopers iirc
analog perch
So in halo wars those were just the “dishonorable” ones
versed helm
You don't remember the cinematic that played during Halsey's interview?
When did halo 4 show civilians getting killed?
analog perch
In the opening cutscene
It shows an elite staving a civilian with a sword
And than opening its mouth at the camera
humble yacht
That scene can’t be taken at face value
versed helm
It was showing a biased take on the Spartans, right?
shy dock
Civilian populations were directly attacked by the covenant I find it hard to believe the elites never killed any civilians
analog perch
I see
analog perch
I gues to them it was cleansing the infidels
analog perch
Than how come thel vadamee was hesitant to kill unarmed marines in the h2a terminal
shy dock
White washing of a main character added retroactively...as for in-universe? He clearly must not have been very devout
gilded mason
Because:
Different Sangheili will have different ideas about honor
versed helm
Let's steer VERY clear from that topic dude.
White washing of a main character added retroactively...as for in-universe? He clearly must not have been very devout
gilded mason
They ain't a hivemind.
shy dock
The extermination of the humans was the “will of the gods”
Which topic
Retroactive lore changes or devoutness to the covenant religion
Regardless the covenant absolutely exterminated civilians via glassing
versed helm
Yup, those monsters deserve to pay.
stoic hamlet
Thel didn’t hesitate
He just didn’t want to kill soldiers when they were unarmed.
But he’s killed civilians before.
He was a devout member of the Covenant and a Zealot.
terse lava
Thel was quite devout, until the events of Cole Protocol
Not so much white wash as he witnissted hierarchs not in co-op, as he had been taught all his life. Furthermore, despite doing his duty, he and his remaining zealot were to be executed thanks to a hierarch's bumbling
versed helm
Propaganda.
solar lily
on the topic of Linda, the Spartan IIs were absolutely totally broken UNSC lapdog robots. That doesn't in the slightest preclude Linda stealing anything. Military lapdogs break laws literally every day
fair hazel
they certainly were not mindless drones
versed helm
But they're not exactly human.
solar lily
ok? still lapdog robots
fair hazel
they still have to operate within certain boundries, but they're minds of their own
solar lily
sure, still robots though
versed helm
They're not really exposed to cultural influences that much.
fair hazel
Not at all
fair hazel
did you read my text last night?
solar lily
yes
fair hazel
they're not developmentally children.
in halo 5, when theirs goals didn't align with the UNSC, they did as they pleased
solar lily
halo 4 and 5 essentially retconned halo 1-3 and the previous books wrt the Spartans' characterizations tbh
but idk if we are allowed to get into that
fair hazel
No.
solar lily
got it. lips sealed
fair hazel
No it didn't retcon
solar lily
right
humble yacht
“No” as in it didn’t, not “no” as in don’t talk about it
solar lily
i understood 😉
fair hazel
first one
solar lily
they're portrayed previously as far more robotic, not just IIs but all Spartans
all of a sudden they act closer to Stargate soldiers
cheesy jokes and quips far more common, lots more acting outside the bounds of the Navy
shy dock
I wouldn’t say halo 4 retconned the Spartans but previously they were certainly seen in a more positive light all around
solar lily
all that said, being a robot STILL does not preclude acting outside the bounds of the Navy. Data absolutely broke Starfleet rules
yes, that as well Ko Dean
fair hazel
you seem to be taking robot literalyl and not literally and switching between
humble yacht
In the books, a bunch of Spartans ignore their duties and go with Halsey to onyx
In the books, Chief lies to ONI to protect Johnson
solar lily
all regular things in real world militaries too
humble yacht
So there are instances of Spartans going out of bounds of the navy in Bungie-era
shy dock
You go from the end of halo 3 where Chief is a legendary hero to the beginning of 4, which outright says “Chief is broken he can’t function right etc”. I found it very jarring
solar lily
^
humble yacht
It’s supposed to be jarring to Chief
fair hazel
halo 4 is the deconstruction of the Master Chief
solar lily
it's a broken continuity
fair hazel
No it's not
shy dock
I don’t know if it’s broken continuity as much as a shift in narrative
fair hazel
he's still seen as a hero to billions
humble yacht
When Chief wakes up in 4, to him he just finished the events of 3
fair hazel
Halo CE-3 didn't explore that side that much
humble yacht
The rest of the world had four years to change
fair hazel
im pretty confident that the interogator was with the spartan branch
not oni, then who else has an interest in trying to replicate while avoiding some flaws of the spartan-II program? The Spartan branch and spartan-IV program
solar lily
it felt like the Avengers scenes where reactionaries blame the Avengers for destroying a city when it wasn't their fault at all
like really really weak and just arbitrarily doesn't show you the whole picture. feels like unreliable narrator if anything
shy dock
Honestly I felt that halo 4 Chief was more similar to halo CE Chief than he was portrayed in 2 or 3. Although I enjoyed the larger than life portrayal in 2 and 3 more, it certainly wasn’t realistic
fair hazel
halo 4 was finally in like with John's character
solar lily
"oh but the heroes are the REAL villains" has to be the biggest pet peeve trope i have of all time
humble yacht
Halo 4 didn’t paint Chief as a villain
solar lily
always puts a stop narratively to me
k
games after 3 absolutely painted either Chief and/or Spartan programs as exceedingly problematic
fair hazel
the spartan-II program was aboslutely unethical
fair hazel
"it's unethical let's move on"???
solar lily
yes
humble yacht
If you only like surface level thinking, I guess it does end there
fair hazel
that does sound very shallow indeed
shy dock
But
solar lily
ummmm we could have explored so many other things lmao
humble yacht
Other people like to discuss the ethical merits of the end result vs how you get there
humble yacht
Yep
shy dock
The covenant invasion was just a happy coincidence
humble yacht
Pretty much
shy dock
Makes sense that someone (Halsey) has to pay
shy dock
Although iirc parangosky was a big component of it too? It’s been a while since I read the books. Halsey was a scapegoat, although the accusations against her were fairly made
fair hazel
hunt the truth was absolutely amazing exploring this
shy dock
Yeah very compelling stuff
humble yacht
Halsey was a scapegoat but it’s not like she didn’t actually ruin a bunch of kids’ lives
fair hazel
She was the scapeboat but guilty all the same
gilded mason
Halsey was a scapegoat
Basically. She may have headed the project, but everything was at the beck and call of ONI, who was approving and expanding on everything Halsey did.
shy dock
For sure, that was my point. She was to blame but others were as well
fair hazel
Onto that, the spartans HAVE accepted what they are.
shy dock
They definitely did. They didn’t have a choice. The book about their training shows how much they embraced it from a young age though
Which is why they were taken as children in the first place, in part
humble yacht
They were trained to accept what they were
shy dock
Easier to mold
humble yacht
Indoctrination
fair hazel
No. Not like that.
humble yacht
It was easier with the IIIs because they wanted revenge and ONI used that
mossy plover
I mean I wouldn't find any "acceptance" from the Spartans IIs very legitimate.
shy dock
Right. They were brainwashed
stoic hamlet
Jumping in to comment on he Onyx situation. The only one who went without orders was Kelly and she was told by Halsey that it was to find a silver bullet to win the war.
Blue Team was sent under false pretences, however. Halsey lies about the reason she wanted Spartans there, and Fleetcom only greenlit the op because they didn’t know she was lying.
humble yacht
Welp
stoic hamlet
So that wasn’t them “not following orders and going with Halsey over the Navy” that was them following orders by the Navy to assist Halsey.
humble yacht
Oh well
shy dock
I think by the time of halo 5 things have changed
Chief especially has had time to reflect on what the government did to him
shy dock
Whereas originally they were very much cogs in the machine, doing what they were ordered to do
stoic hamlet
Arguably they still are.
shy dock
To an extent yes
stoic hamlet
Cortana is like, the only instance of that not being the case.
stoic hamlet
But still doing so under rough orders.
stoic hamlet
It’s not so much disobedience as it is acting more independent.
humble yacht
Have they learned disobedience or have they shifted who they’re obedient to?
shy dock
“Negative infinity. I don’t like it”
stoic hamlet
But then Spartans were trained to operate independently anyways.
Well John is an odd case
A lot of what he does makes no logical sense.
humble yacht
John is prioritizing loyalty to a friend and mission
shy dock
I think it makes sense idk
fair hazel
stoic hamlet
And many of those scenes in the latter two games are clearly trying to dictate the narrative regarding how the player should feel.
shy dock
He’s learned how little humanity he has left, how Cortana was similarly in limbo in regards to humanity, and he wants his friend back
stoic hamlet
The Del Rio cutscene, for example, is a clear case of 343 trying to get the player to agree with John without hesitation, but if you step back for even a moment you can see he’s acting just as irrationally as Del Rio is.
humble yacht
Eh, John is working with more intel than del rio
shy dock
Idk. Chief has always had free reign to do what is necessary to save the universe
Del Rio refused to trust the two time-over savior of the universe
stoic hamlet
The problem with that, as Del Rio brings up, is the intel could be wrong.
shy dock
So he did what he has to do
humble yacht
But John saw Didact first hand
shy dock
Sure but chief saw the didact with his own eyes unless we are talking about different instance
humble yacht
And John saw the librarian’s message first hand
queen otter
Idk. Chief has always had free reign to do what is necessary to save the universe
Well it would actually be the galaxy I believe.
shy dock
True
stoic hamlet
There was no way to verify what John claimed to have seen, not for John to verify his intel was correct.
I’m referring to just after the Liberian cutscene, when he returns to Infinity.
shy dock
But it’s like if lord hood was like “no Chief I don’t believe there’s a bomb so you can’t leave the ship” in halo 2
stoic hamlet
That’s a different situation
shy dock
It’s not exact
fair hazel
there's been supporters and detractors? to the spartan-IIs
versed helm
Dude straight up said "Arrest the master chief" and nobody moved lmao
stoic hamlet
Cortana actually saw the bomb with her own “eyes” and likely fed that intel to Hoof.
But in H4, Cortana notes John’s helmet cameras didn’t record the Librarian at all, there was just static, and though she also heard the Librarian she’s close to rampancy, so she can’t be trusted.
John, likewise, has had her “in his head” while she’s been rampant, so for all Del Rio knows, what John claims to be the Librarian could just be Cortana losing it.
shy dock
They both saw the didact
He just didn’t believe them that’s really all there is to it
Cortana I can get, but Chief is in his prime
Calling him an aging spartan was objectively wrong
He hadn’t aged a day since halo 3
queen otter
Dude straight up said "Arrest the master chief" and nobody moved lmao
Yeah it was pretty awkward.
stoic hamlet
It was.
But he’s been in Cryo for four years overseen by a steadily deteriorating AI who he then has had “in his head” since he crashed.
So some skepticism is warranted, IMO.
Yeah and Hood was cautious about trusting him.
shy dock
Cortana wasn’t in chiefs head at the time At best some skepticism based on wild speculation isn’t enough to warrant ignoring the advice of the best solider in the unsc
fair hazel
I remember how in oblivion, there was much resistance to him.
humble yacht
I would say John agreeing to abandon earth to go on a possible goose chase was in line with him refusing to give over Cortana after del rio made it clear he wasn’t worried about Didact
shy dock
Which is why rio was relieved of duty
Wasn’t in chiefs head during his cryo sleep, to clarify
fair hazel
does no one hang out in campaign areas?
the soldiers onboard infinity discuss the actions taht took place in the cutscene right before
shy dock
The goose chase was definitely a gamble
humble yacht
It wasn’t the most logical of choices
Splitting their forces when the flood potentially was on the way
stoic hamlet
When you have the largest, most advanced ship that humanity’s ever fielded, and which did basically nothing to the Didact, I can understand not being totally gung-ho to bum rush him again.
humble yacht
You don’t need to bum rush the Didact to try to keep him from leaving
You could brainstorm some other way to keep him in requiem
shy dock
Yeah the issue was really the outright refusal to take itno account anything that John was saying
humble yacht
Cortana on her own was able to develop a pretty good idea, with help maybe they could have been successful
glacial dock
Is there a lore reason on why brutes have human shotguns in halo 2 campaign?
solar lily
i guess it's been a long time since i've read the books... i really feel like i don't remember TFoR how y'all describe things today but even so, i concede most of my previous argument. it is more interesting to explore the politics of the UNSC vs the various factions it has brutally put down over the last 400 years (though I still think the Spartans are robots). i just hope we get to see more of that exploration outside of spartans vs spartans and such
shy dock
Didn’t brutes prefer human weapons over elite weapons? I could be wrong but I think I read that somewhere.
humble yacht
Is there a lore reason on why brutes have human shotguns in halo 2 campaign?
I don’t think so
Think it was just to add diversity to gameplay
solar lily
could they have picked them up from flood at some point
humble yacht
Canonically, using human tech was frowned upon
glacial dock
I was so confused on why theyvhad human shotguns
solar lily
using brutes at all was frowned upon
shy dock
Flood or humans would work. Brutes had engaged humans before that point
mossy plover
The unsc is like legit fascist right?
humble yacht
No
solar lily
the more i read about them the more it seems like it
shy dock
They are unethical and shady
fair hazel
dependsd who you ask
obsidian thistle
Brutes however are known to toy with human-based stuff though. Chopper and all that
shy dock
Wouldn’t say fascist
obsidian thistle
So it wouldnt be unheard off
fair hazel
Cia, did you take the chance to read my linda thing last night when i sacrificed sleep to write that?
solar lily
they put down a communist revolution while spreading capitalism and nationalism, kinda really similar to irl fascists
glacial dock
Where did you read this?
solar lily
me?
glacial dock
Ye
obsidian thistle
I been busy all day with a big wiki development and a new Xbox 360 @fair hazel. So it flew passed me I admit
shy dock
Well I can think of a real life nation that has done all of that but I wouldn’t consider them fascist either
solar lily
@shy dock i'd recommend searching whatever nation state you're talking about's relationship with right wing ultra nationalists and other fascists if you actually want to get an idea outside of whatever propaganda they currently share
glad to be of service cia391
shy dock
All I’ll say, so as not to dive too deep into it, is that nationalism doesn’t necessarily equate to full blown fascism
And that applies to governments in halo as well
solar lily
I believe the UNSC fought a fascist uprising too
that doesn't preclude it becoming fascist itself later on though
humble yacht
The UNSC is a conglomerate of nations and cultures
solar lily
so was the third reich
fair hazel
i saw it used yesterday i think CIA
solar lily
i used it yesterday
shy dock
How many super powers haven’t put down dissenters though? Or at least attempted to. Are all super powers fascist by design? And is fascism a yes or no situation or a sliding scale?
I think the unsc has certainly committed crimes but I don’t consider them fascist, thats my point
mossy plover
The ability to kidnap hundreds of children as part of a military program without any resistance seem as undemocratic as it gets.
shy dock
Definitely not their brightest moment. Huge crime against humanity
humble yacht
Even real world democracies have seedy points in history
solar lily
fair, though democracy and authoritarianism are basically philosophical ideas
almost every claimed democracy has been disclaimed by both internal and external members of said "democracy" at some point
solar lily
capitalist nations claim democracy even as they allow all their politicians and laws to be bought and sold to the highest bidder, communist nations claim democracy even though in some communist states, actual elections are never even held
shy dock
I mean governments exist to horde power if you really wanna deconstruct it. Taking out dissenters and creating super soldiers all fall under that umbrella of seizing power
jolly furnace
No political system is perfect and all are susceptible to corruption
shy dock
More of a latent function that their stated purpose of course
solar lily
@jolly furnace that's a defeatist attitude though, and itself a political position (status quoism)
jolly furnace
Never heard of it
humble yacht
I think we’re drifting away from the purpose of the channel
mossy plover
I just think that the unsc could probably get away with doing it again.
jolly furnace
what bout em?
gilded mason
"I just think they're neat."
humble yacht
I think they’re cold blooded killers
gilded mason
Hey, no proof they're cold-blooded.
mossy plover
What's the lore behind the invincible jackal shields, seems like op tech.
humble yacht
When are they invincible?
fair hazel
Maybe they're just lukewarm blooded killers
humble yacht
Tepid blooded killers
clever fable
Jackal shields are DEFINITELY invincible, and I DEFINITELY didn't miss the entirety of that AR mag.
gilded mason
No, it means give 'em a thermometer! >=(
humble yacht
i like my way better
mossy plover
I thought the orange jackal shields were invincible.
gilded mason
(They'll no longer generate body heat when dead, though.)
humble yacht
nope, every jackal shield can be downed with enough fire
certain types of shields may reflect ballistics though
shy dock
Depending on the game sniper ammunition causes them to fail and sometimes they bounce right off....hmm
mossy plover
I've been playing a long time and for some reason I thought the orange ones were invincible.
fair hazel
in game the invincible shields are hard light shields and bubble shields
humble yacht
halo 4 hard light Armor mod intensifies
fair hazel
stuff
armour ability
i like seeing spartans use the hard light shield
it was nice when Palmer used hers to kill an elite with his own sword
shy dock
“Energy field” with a shifted frequency
Reverse engineered from forerunner tech
Sounds like hard light to me
fair hazel
its not hard light
and it does not sound like hard light
if it was hard light it would have said so. it's the whatever thing they use for energy shields
shy dock
Light is energy
The jackal shields are energy, frequency shifted to be “hard” or dense
I don’t think we have enough info to say for certain what it is
I don’t think it’s the same hard light the forerunners used, as it is reverse engineered
jolly furnace
Jackal shields are plasma based i think
humble yacht
light is both waves and particles but some fiction paints energy shields as just waves or electric fields
nah they aren't plasma
shy dock
I know a little theoretical physics. Not enough to really get into it. All I’m saying is based on the descriptions on halopedian and halseys diary I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to think that it’s some form of reverse engineered hard light. As for frequency shifts, no idea what that means in real world science beyond the implication that it’s increasing the density of the energy field
gilded mason
I've been wondering, why do you call it "Halopedian"?
shy dock
Mmmm idk I feel like the url used to say halopedian and I just got into the habit
Or maybe not and I made that up
humble yacht
think your brain added the "n"
mossy plover
Man I just remembered that Miranda was Halsey's daughter.
jolly furnace
No there was an N at one point in the URL. EDIT: Sorry no there's a thing called Halopedian of the Month on the site
mossy plover
They don't bring that up often do they
shy dock
No wait there WAS an N at one point
Search halopedian on the waybackwhen machine
2010 to 2016
shy dock
Just anyone who uses the site I assume
shy dock
Don’t go to halopedian.com today though it’s nsfw
Anyway iirc halopedia in the beginning just used the wiki format but at a certain point the wiki format changed to to the wikia format, and a lot of people weren’t happy with it so they branched off and became halopedian.com while the original halopedia became the halo wiki
And now halopedian is back to just using halopedia.com
humble yacht
Oh you mean the Halo Wikia
shy dock
Yeah the not as good one
humble yacht
which is now the Fandom
shy dock
Yessir
I was a big contributor to the flood pages back in the day, a few of the pictures I took are still on there I think
Probably the lowest quality ones are mine 😂
Yeah there’s still a picture of a carrier form from h2a that I took with my iPhone haha. I think I had some more from the halo 3 days though, I can’t remember
obsidian thistle
Yea a lil tldr is
Halopedia used to be Halopedia.org till 2006. Then it joined the then-Wikia. Becoming Halopedia under the url halo.wikia.com.
The 2010 split happened and Halopedia moved to Halopedian.com due to the url schenanigans causes by MS back in 2006. (Dont ask its very complex)
Halopedia then managed to move back to its og url in 2012. Leaving Halopedian.com behind. For the better I say. Halopedian was always the community nickname. And less so the site name.
Oh hey now I have a H2A mission. Replace that iphone image xD
@shy dock
shy dock
I should do that. Wouldn’t be too hard since the Xbox can take screenshots