I mean we know they could die and re-evolve in new forms
#lore-and-universe
jolly furnace
clever fable
That carries a lot of fun implications actually. Never thought of it that way.
naive compass
The current gravemind is some kind of super genius ultra intelligent being how did he not took over the galaxy already
jolly furnace
So whos' to say all current species or some of them arent a result of that, just the new incarnations don't have the Precursor knowledge or powers or memories
clever fable
Too true then.
jolly furnace
It has plans, long term plans
clever fable
All according to plan. ^tm
jolly furnace
It kinda is
I mean if its anywhere in the cosmos, it can always return
Also there is a very real possiblity it is in other galaxies
naive compass
oh my go so you're telling me that even with firing the halos
it can still be out there
just wow
is halo gonna inevitably end in the flood taking over everything ? i think pretty much yes
jolly furnace
I think the modern storyline will end in a victory over the Flood..... somehow
jolly furnace
Halos range can only go so far
If the flood is too far away from our galaxy, no good
also Halo kills everyone else too
naive compass
that's the problem when there's no more
ther's more
hiding
somewhere
what i mean by distance is like in a nearby galaxy
jolly furnace
I dont think they are in a nearby one
jolly furnace
Nearest proper galaxy is Andromeda i think, too far for Halo reach
Forerunners may exist outside the galaxy
naive compass
that's good news if they are alive
jolly furnace
And some are likely hiding inside the galaxy at a place called Bastion
Its good news if they are friendly
depends on the manner of their return
naive compass
i was about to say something stupid i was about to say the forerunner can help the humanity but i forgot the forerunners war with humans
yeah good news if they are friendly
i mean
i think the flood is the only real ennemy
jolly furnace
Assuming these forerunners dont want a rematch with humans then we should be good
naive compass
like extremly lethal ennemy
Good
if they don't want a rematch
the halo lore is wonderful
no regret
thank you for taking your time talking to me
jolly furnace
No problem
naive compass
i'm gonna go to sleep Now
naive compass
Thank you
bright briar
- You've got some time to wait.
charred crane
š
terse lava
Heh
queen otter
Go into your cryo-chamber if your willing to wait until 2552.
static ember
u talking stuff about me
lethal comet
wdym
golden haven
Halo lore is kind weak. Seems to change over time for convenience of the how they want the new game to go
lethal comet
not really
they just add new material
only fall of reach and first strike have been retconned i think
golden haven
I mean master chief was supposed to be the last spartan and now hes got a whole fireteam. And they made it seem like humans and forerunners were the same race in 3
gilded mason
He's always had a team in the books. Bungie just never wanted to show them off in game. Though in CE, you could make the case that John assumed he was the last Spartan since he and a clinically dead Linda were the only ones to escape Reach at the time.
golden haven
I'm pretty sure the little book halo 1 came with said hes the last of the super soldiers after reach is wiped out
gilded mason
Yeah. And I'm sayin' from John's, and the rest of the Pillar of Autumn's, point of view, that was true.
golden haven
Yeah but that wasnt like a "log in the ships computer" that was bungie explaining the story to you.
limpid meadow
Master Chief was never the last Spartan. He was though to be during the events of Halo CE, but that's it.
Even by Halo 2, Bungie-produced material such as "Conversations from the Universe" and "The Halo Graphic Novel" showed other Spartans running around in some capacity, never mind the books.
last anchor
He was the last one in the CE instructional book only
And even then, that was debatable
limpid meadow
He was labeled as such in Halo 3's booklet as well. But again, even material produced by Bungie directly contradicted the general notion of him being the last.
golden haven
Yeah that's sort of my point. In 1, he's the last spartan, then in 2 he's not, in 3 he is again. They just seem to waffle with stuff. It's not a big deal I just hate when games/movies/whatever do that
In reach, they basically get the tech to make Cortana, or however that worked, as the covenant is destroying the planet. but in 3, Cortana starts out telling chief she got to pick, and how she watched as he developed into the warrior they need. She was literally made and delivered to the pillar of autumn immediately and the ship blasted off as soon as she was loaded up. The only reason chief even got her was to avoid her capture to the covenant. Which is crazy cause I died in halo 1 like a million times so they definitely captured her.
stoic hamlet
Not at all correct
golden haven
What are you talking about have you played those games? That's verbatim what happens
stoic hamlet
Iāve played every game and have (or at one point had) every book published.
What you state isnāt correct to the lore.
Also, I apologize, itās late and Iām really not in the right mindset to have a discussion.
Thatās why I was so blunt towards you.
golden haven
Just on the game side, halsey shows them cortana, sends the directly to the autumn, autumn gets the package, leaves, they arrive at halo and chief is given cortana to keep her from the enemy. Opening scene in h3 is her telling chief she got to pick etc.
I dunno if the books contradict any of this and infact they probably do. I'm just saying the lore is kinda weak because they change little things to gel with how they wanna progress the story. Pretty much everything in this capitalist world does it. It's not like halo is unique in that
fair hazel
no its not.
They dont get the tech to make cortana in reach, so you're already wrong about that
a split off fragment of her is delivered to the pillar of autumn, the rest of her had already been on board and with cortana
cortana did chose john.
that fragment is like, the knowledge from the babd catha ship
the knowledge needed to decipher the coordinates of installation 04
besides you dying isnt what happened canonically
lethal comet
they throw ice to make oceans
golden haven
The booklet halo 1 comes with says you made a blind jump
lethal comet
they bombard asteroids to make plains and a new mantle
carmine sleet
Cortana didn't tell them that the jump wasn't blind
fair hazel
she went with the cole protocol in a certain way
golden haven
The naked purple lady wouldn't loe to me she loves me
Slipstream- Captain keys said to cortana, in 1, when the covenant fleet was already there, we made a blind jump how did they
carmine sleet
I know what the dialogue is, Cortana lied in that scene
golden haven
But she didnt lie. Not in 2001. In 2001, the story was the jump was blind. They just hadn't developed the storyline, the lore. They wanted to add in some stuff, so now, retroactively, she lied, to accommodate the additional storyline. You don't have to buy into the story not having plot holes or being perfect to enjoy the storyline.
carmine sleet
When did I say anything about it ruining my enjoyment?
golden haven
Not really the point
stoic hamlet
Well, in The Fall of Reach she didnāt jump blindly.
That book came out before CE, sooooooo
carmine sleet
So it's not retroactively
stoic hamlet
Exactly.
round depot
What's the deal with some Covenant weapons not being able to be reloaded?
carmine sleet
Those are energy based weapons that fire superheated plasma as a projectile. They don't need reloading because they operate using a battery that can't be taken out. Instead, they need recharging. We just haven't ever been given the ability to recharge them in gameplay
round depot
Interesting, thanks
carmine sleet
No problem
terse lava
Dont question it
simple locust
So during the Human-Forerunner War were the San'Shyuum involved in combat with the humans and if so did they serve during ground combat?
hardy vine
Those are energy based weapons that fire superheated plasma as a projectile. They don't need reloading because they operate using a battery that can't be taken out. Instead, they need recharging. We just haven't ever been given the ability to recharge them in gameplay
@carmine sleet that would be dumb. (Master Chief: Hey um do yāall have an outlet somewhere... my gunās almost dead)
lethal comet
They also need to refill compressed gases to make plasma
but recharging is more often
Even the sword has to be recharged
stoic hamlet
Itās important to note the charges would last much longer in the lore.
shy dock
Humans donāt even know how to charge them, or at least they didnāt pre-4. Humanity advanced a lot in the four years after the covenant war, thanks to studying covenant tech and maybe with the help of the arbiters scientists
But certainly in 1-3 it was a mystery how the battery operated or how to charge it
Loved how mysterious the covenant was back then
stoic hamlet
Nah they knew. They had captured Covenant weaponry as early as 2526. It was just getting the charging stations that was hard.
The Spartan IIIās trained with Covenant weaponry as well, presumably they were powered, for demonstrations and the like.
Once the war ended human scientists could reverse engineer the weapons a lot faster and without the worry of enemy tracking devices and the like, but they were well aware of how they operated.
naive compass
Are flood Juggernauts Canon?
humble yacht
yea
naive compass
cool :)
last anchor
Wasn't there a plasma rifle in Cole Protocol that was retrofitted for human use with an ammo counter?
And it had like 400+ shots in it.
carmine sleet
That was modified by Jackals under secret orders from Truth
naive compass
Why is the arbiter never got infected in Halo 3 by The flood?
carmine sleet
Plot armour
naive compass
what do you mean?
unique rune
The plot needed him to survive
Therefore he is immune to infection in those instances
shy dock
They did not know how to recharge plasmas weaponry. My source is the little guide that used to come with games
last anchor
The same one that said that Cortana made a "blind jump" to Instillation 04 despite both Fall of Reach AND later Halo Reach proving it wrong?
The same one that said Chief's the last spartan?
Lets just say thats dubious canon
shy dock
I found my old halo CE manual. āWe currently do not understand how to replace or re-charge a [plasma weapons] power coreā
@stoic hamlet
terse lava
I belive the weapon crates also acted as recharge stations did they not?
shy dock
Thatās all speculation as far as I can tell
The halo wiki says they are āspeculatedā to recharge plasma weapons but the halopedian page doesnāt say anything about that. I defer to halopedian if info is conflicting
stoic hamlet
CE has really out of date lore though, so idk.
It wouldnāt make sense for the IIIās (for example) to have Covenant weapons but not see how they work.
shy dock
My halo 2 manual says the same thing. āBoth plasma pistols and rifles use power cores we donāt fully understandā.
Wish I still had my halo 3 manual
gilded mason
Even Halsey by 2535 was completely flabbergasted by how she couldn't make heads or tails of how Covenant weapons work.
shy dock
Iām fairly certain thereās nothing in there to conflict with that though
Yep, Halseys journal notes that ānone of the surface controls or triggers connect in any way human scientists can understandā
Love it, so mysterious
stoic hamlet
A mystery indeed.....
terse lava
Dont forget the methane tanks, not connected to an unggoy mouth piece at all till halo 4
gilded mason
I think I handwaved that in the past by showing the neck armor extended all the way to the gas masks, so I said that tubes probably went underneath there to the masks.
shy dock
Or the covenant has mastered quantum tunneling
And then decided it was too much work in halo 4...ha
Actually speaking of theoretical physics, quantum entanglement (two particles becoming linked so that whatever happens to one happens to the other regardless of distance) would explain plasma weapons having no connections...but Iām not sure bungie thought that far into it
Still, I think my new pet theory is that the covenant has a strong grasp of quantum physics
terse lava
@gilded masontrue I do recall you commenting on that, but if that was the case one would think said tubes would be noticeable. I will take a quick look at the H2A ones
sudden juniper
the forerunners are mentioned to have used quantum entanglement (somewhere in the forerunner trilogy i think) and a lot of the covenants tech comes from reverse engineered forerunner technology so that is definitely plausible
terse lava
Biy of irony I noticed. In H2A, the heretic unggoy do indeed lack any connection from tanks to mouthpiece. Yet in classic, they do
gilded mason
Gawrsh
shy dock
That makes me happy, Iām definitely going with that.
sudden juniper
ja
terse lava
Well some tech they had before the covenant. The plasma rifle for example as a weapon predates it
shy dock
The current design is dated back 500 years ago, the covenant formed about 2800 years ago
Who knows how older models worked
Actually about 4500 years ago
gilded mason
Well some tech they had before the covenant. The plasma rifle for example as a weapon predates it
Yup, the earliest plasma rifle was made before the war with the San'Shyuum.
shy dock
Math was wrong
For sure, the current model is only 500 years ago though according to halopedian
sudden juniper
oops
shy dock
I canāt remember. Did the elites reverse engineer forerunner tech before the war with the SanāShyuum?
I remember one side was for it and one was against it
sudden juniper
i can confirm i am not just making things up its on cryptum on page 141. the forerunners used quantum entanglement for communication
terse lava
The Covenant existed for 3400 years. We saw the current plasma rifle design existed at least 64 years into the covenant's life. And broken circle shows plasma rifles being used just a year after the covenant was formed
The 500 year thing is from ONI's view
gilded mason
Did the elites reverse engineer forerunner tech before the war with the SanāShyuum?
Some did, but a point was made that those discoveries were never made public out of fear of retribution. So advancements made off of that research were never made until the war went on for a while and those scientists revealed what they had done.
gilded mason
0BCE was 3800 years ago
...?
shy dock
So around 4600 years ago, like I stated earlier
gilded mason
What year do you think Halo takes place in?
terse lava
Hey Ostral you may be right on the unggoy tanks
shy dock
And are about 4600 years old using some simple math
stoic hamlet
Regarding the grunt gask mask thing I always just assumed it was a gameplay/visual thing.
In Verdun (the game) there are no tubes connecting Masks to filters, though in reality there were. I just assume the Grunts are a similar sort of scenario.
gilded mason
800+2552=3352
terse lava
Plus it was 850 BC
shy dock
Yes, got that number right
I just approximated around 2000 instead of 2500
So as of 2500 the covenant is ~5100 years old
versed helm
You're not an idiot man, you just made a mistake.
sudden juniper
wat
terse lava
Not 5100
shy dock
Letās go through the math and you guys can correct me if I make a mistake
sudden juniper
the covenant was formed in 800 bce. that is 800 years to 0bce. then another 2552 years to the year of halo
making 800 plus 2552
actually 850 but you see my point
versed helm
So it's around 3000 years old?
sudden juniper
ehh close enough
terse lava
The covenant is 3402 years old
gilded mason
852+2552=3404
sudden juniper
nice
shy dock
Okay I see what went wrong: I searched how long was 0 bce, assuming it was 2020 years ago (as of today) but clicked a quora answer asking how long ago 1810 bce was without realizing it. Which didnāt make sense to me but I just rolled with it
gilded mason
Ko pls
shy dock
Lmao
sudden juniper
well hey we got there in the end didn't we?
shy dock
We did it
versed helm
What's important is that you know this now.
terse lava
I still how long the covenant managed to live
shy dock
The covenant is 3400 years old, so the current design for the plasma rifle is 2900 years old according to oni as of 2550
versed helm
Ko, where did you get this information from?
terse lava
We see the plasma rifle used by the arbiter who tamed the lekgolo. That was in the 700s BC
shy dock
Lmaoooo Iām gonna stop trying to do math rn once I get on a roll like this it doesnāt stop
terse lava
It's all good
versed helm
It's alright man, I'm not judging.
shy dock
My brain enjoys putting variables in the wrong places, I usually do math problems twice on exams cause of it
sudden juniper
its funny how according to that the plasma rifle that is in use in halo canon is being developed around about now. i guess i also never really think about how far halo is into the future. It doesnt feel like the 26th century
shy dock
Yep 2052
sudden juniper
nice
versed helm
Lol.
gilded mason
You get a gold star! ā
sudden juniper
actually it is supposedly at least 500 years old, so in my head canon the rifle is being developed right now
shy dock
In a galaxy far far away
versed helm
You know what was developed earlier?
terse lava
Hm?
versed helm
The Crysis Nanosuit. I bet that would ruin a Spartan 2.
gilded mason
To be fair, they had access to Forerunner tech.```
Remember, only the current model. They had plasma rifles before making use of Forerunner tech.Do we have any info on these pre-forerunner plasma rifles?
gilded mason
Not really, no.
shy dock
I feel like Sangheili were a pretty low-tech feudal society
gilded mason
The Plasma Rifle has been a feature of the Sangheili warrior class for millennia, with the earliest versions used long before the formation of the Covenant.
This sentence is the most we know.
sudden juniper
the only information i can find on waypoint, and that isn't really big on elaborating on details or fluff
versed helm
I don't think so.
I feel like Sangheili were a pretty low-tech feudal society
shy dock
Wonder how they got plasma technology
sudden juniper
about the plasma rifle variants of old that is
shy dock
All I know of pre-covenant Sangheili tech is from that one cartoon
terse lava
They were not low tech, they had plasma weapons when the san shyuum had bullets
shy dock
Where the two elites have a samurai duel
terse lava
That was in the 2100s
gilded mason
I feel like Sangheili were a pretty low-tech feudal society```
Nah, pretty high-tech, but the manner of government would seem antiquated to us.Sangheili also figured out things like Slipspace and anti-gravity before Forerunner tech as well.
versed helm
Where the two elites have a samurai duel
@shy dock That's an honourable duel, they did it out of moral obligation.
sudden juniper
sangheili are smart
terse lava
Yep where the san shyuum needed forerunner tech to advance
shy dock
Oh wow they had slipspace technology before the covenant formed
Yeah elites are some advanced mofos
sudden juniper
i guess thats why they are described as an intelligent race i thought it was just to distinguish them from brutes
pseudo nimbus
if the forerunners werent big a-holes we could have done it way before
versed helm
I'm pretty sure that it was the Sangheili who invented some of the famous vehicles that its military uses.
Like the Ghosts.
pseudo nimbus
yup
shy dock
Well, to bring it full circle to the quantum stuff I was talking about. Sangheili must have already had a decent grasp on it to be capable of slipspace before the covenant
Even the relatively less advanced human slipspace drives use quantum technology
versed helm
I'm unsure if they possessed knowledge for slipspace travel.
gilded mason
They had to have.
shy dock
Halopedian says they do
gilded mason
Whoops
shy dock
They had colonies before the SanāShyuum war
gilded mason
Yeah, at least 70
versed helm
I didn't know this.
pseudo nimbus
way before
versed helm
It's why I said that I was unsure.
pseudo nimbus
sorry my internet bad i got ur message afterwards
versed helm
So, I was wondering what the purpose was for the settlement that Noble Six dies in.
gilded mason
Wasn't it a ship scrapping yard, or something?
versed helm
There are like 13 dead Spartan 3s who were already present but I was wondering what they were trying to defend.
last anchor
Probably just got stuck on the planet like Six did
versed helm
Not a bad suggestion.
pseudo nimbus
i think they didnt have anything else to do cuz they git surrounded and couldnt escape
shy dock
Was the PoA the last ship to leave Reach?
shy dock
Itās just, what you said is really interesting to me
versed helm
About the dead Spartans?
shy dock
13 dead spartan 3ās? All in a ship scrapping yard?
What killed them, why did so many converse in one spot?
I guess the fight was already lost at that point
versed helm
Yeah, and I don't think they were trying to prevent the Covenant from advancing. That location was not exactly valuable.
gilded mason
During the Battle of AsÅŗod, in the final hours of the Fall of Reach on August 30, 2552, the ship-breaking yards became the final off-planet extraction point on the Eposz continent.
shy dock
Very nice find, so they were likely attempting to be extracted off the planet and something went wrong
versed helm
I like to think that they contacted Six through comms, which was intercepted by who we believe to be Thel in the cutscene; so Six arrives to find them dead.
gilded mason
which was intercepted by who we believe to be Thel in the cutscene
Just as a note, Thel was on his ship at the time.
terse lava
Yes thel was never on the ground, that sangheili was another field marshal
versed helm
Anyway, with the previous quote in mind then, they were probably just preventing the Covenant from attacking the last few ships that were trying to leave from the yard.
terse lava
Truthfully it was likely just the best defense area they could get eith bring surrounded by covenant
pseudo nimbus
which was intercepted by who we believe to be Thel in the cutscene
Just as a note, Thel was on his ship at the time.
@gilded mason i can agree i was on my ship
I'm unsure about that.
@versed helm We wanted to finish of every single spartan down thats why we hunted them down
shy dock
That field Marshall was always an interesting character to me
I think itās pretty heavily implied that itās the same one through the whole game who we face off with at the end of PoA
Wish there was more on him
versed helm
I'm pretty sure it is.
There are a lot of subtle implications that I have noticed in Reach.
pseudo nimbus
May i ask @versed helm why do you want to delete me
versed helm
It's a meme username, don't think about it.
pseudo nimbus
ok human
versed helm
Anyway, that Field Marshal appears a lot in the cutscenes.
shy dock
I gotta stop procrastinating....minute details in halo are so much more interesting than finding the log of a concentration of hydrogen ions though...smh Iām turning discord off lata
versed helm
Goodbye, Ko.
pseudo nimbus
goodbye
Anyway, that Field Marshal appears a lot in the cutscenes.
@versed helm he is one of the most important throughout the story because he killed one of the only two hyper lethal spartans out there
gilded mason
Just a note, besides that being a really silly term that they shouldn't have made canonical, all Spartans are classified as "hyper-lethal"
versed helm
I liked it, this was before it was applied to every Spartan.
gilded mason
It just sounds juvenile to me.
shy dock
Yep the hyper lethal vector argument, takin me back to 2012. Gotta procrastinate some more
pseudo nimbus
oof
shy dock
Who said that? Was it Halsey? I canāt remember
gilded mason
It was Halsey in a marketing commercial
versed helm
A lot of stuff is, it's fiction after all. It doesn't have to take itself too seriously.
It just sounds juvenile to me.
sudden juniper
hyper lethal vector
pseudo nimbus
+its in his documents when he got transfered to naoble team
gilded mason
To make fans go "Really? Wowie! I'll feel good about having to play some new guy instead of the Master Chief, then!"
pseudo nimbus
haha
shy dock
Hmmm letās really dissect that and see if every spartan is a hyper lethal vector
Hyper just means excessive here, lethal is self explanatory
What does she mean by vector
versed helm
To make fans go "Really? Wowie! I'll feel good about having to play some new guy instead of the Master Chief, then!"
Well they wanted to make sure that the player felt powerful, they prioritised gameplay over lore.
shy dock
Vector can mean an object with magnitude and direction in math or an organism that transmits a disease
gilded mason
Hmmm letās really dissect that and see if every spartan is a hyper lethal vector```
```The information sheet for Spartans in Halo: Ground Command suggests the latter, mentioning that "each Spartan is a hyper-lethal special forces operative"```They really shouldn't have done that.
sudden juniper
magnitude not magnified
shy dock
It suggests it. I wonder what the wording was I donāt even know what halo ground command is
pseudo nimbus
Vector can mean an object with magnified and direction in math or an organism that transmits a disease
@shy dock the disease of killing the covanent
shy dock
Yeah yim yum thatās a typo let me fix it
Yeah thatās what I was thinking
Maybe a vector for hyper-lethality
sudden juniper
ja
pseudo nimbus
ach ja
shy dock
Hyper-lethal is subjective
gilded mason
shy dock
It could mean all Spartans are hyper lethal compared to marines, or that noble 6 and Chief are hyper lethal compared to other Spartans. Lemme check this link
I see. So really itās both
All Spartans are hyper lethal but I think Halsey was specifically referring to the hyper lethality of 6 and Chief in reference to other Spartans
craggy sierra
Is āhyper leathalā like an actual term that exists irl in the millitary? It sounds more like what a grade schooler says when they explain why their action figure is better than yours. Having it only ever applied to the player character read as a little mary su-ish.
gilded mason
It sounds more like what a grade schooler says when they explain why their action figure is better than yours. Having it only ever applied to the player character read as a little mary su-ish.
Yup.
craggy sierra
I kinda prefer it being retconned to apply to all spartans as a class for that reason
gilded mason
Yeah, if that term has to be used, it makes sense for it to be for all Spartans, not two arbitrary ones.
shy dock
Was it arbitrary? Halsey saw something in Chief, and she saw something in 6 when she gave him āthe packageā
gilded mason
Was it arbitrary?
Eh. ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
unique rune
āHyper lethal vectorā reeks of OC donut steel.
Really do not like that itās a canon thing.
sudden juniper
id imagine that the two spartans emphasised to be more hyper lethal took part in large scale operations more frequently, blowing up ships and halo rings. then some spartans (like cal 141) may have tended towards assassination, or something that is less hyper lethal. In this context im assuming hyper lethal means an operative that does its job by killing a lot of the enemy rather than by being directed towards specific targets.
unique rune
It definitely sounds pretty arbitrary, considering it only existed as a āratingā to play up B312 for Reachās marketing.
shy dock
I mean sure you can say that itās ridiculous that both player characters are super bad-Aās but you could also say that they are only player characters in the first place because of their exceptional effectiveness
gilded mason
then some spartans (like cal 141) may have tended towards assassination, or something that is less hyper lethal.
Noble 6 was an assassin.
shy dock
Really it just comes down to, do you believe that 6 and Chief are better than the other Spartans around them?
sudden juniper
Yeah, that is fair ostral
gilded mason
Okay so quick question, does Hyper-Lethal extend to ALL Spartan generations?
Yes. Except for SIs, I assume.
shy dock
Halsey used the term and she would never use it for spartan 4s considering her disdain for them imo
versed helm
Here's another thing, why does Six's visor get damaged even when his shields have not been depleted? This only happens in LW.
gilded mason
Fred's better. :^)
sudden juniper
kurts best
versed helm
Fred is almost as bland as Six.
shy dock
Yes this is the classic response, that Fred is the best in blue team
unique rune
Fred is almost as bland as Six.
Clearly you donāt know enough about Fred
gilded mason
Fred is almost as bland as Six.
You read any of the Denning books?
sudden juniper
thats why he was chosen to train the spartan 3s. because he is the best spartan all around
shy dock
Fred might be best on paper but thereās a reason Cortana chose Chief, and Chief is the one who saved the universe 3 or 4 times now. So the results are there
6 certainly seemed the most effective out of the spartan 4ās to me
unique rune
In Halo 5, sure, but 104ās built up as a pretty interesting character in other media.
Meanwhile B312 has to remain the generic bland player insert, so... I feel like calling him a character is being real generous.
gilded mason
reason Cortana chose Chief
Because she was attracted to him. :^)
limpid meadow
Okay so quick question, does Hyper-Lethal extend to ALL Spartan generations?
Yes (with the exception of Spartan-1s, aka ORION candidates, from what we can tell). All Spartan IIs, IIIs, and IVs are considered hyper-lethal
versed helm
She's an AI dude, don't fantasise something as ridiculous as that.
sudden juniper
thats more circumstance than anything. i would personally argue that most spartans would have been able to accomplish what chief did given the same scenario. which i guess is cortanas point about luck, so whatever...
cortana does say chief is attractive
shy dock
Maybe partially. Is there any real evidence of that? Genuine question
versed helm
The in universe explanation is likely just a simple stray shot got him while his shields were popped
@versed helm That's not a bad one, thanks.
gilded mason
She's an AI dude, don't fantasise something as ridiculous as that.```
Hm? She literally says he's attractiveHalo 5 Cortana doesnāt count, she cray
unique rune
Halo 5 also shows Cortana wasn't exactly right in the mind, so, uh. Maybe not the best metric.
shy dock
And isnt the original construct in any case
limpid meadow
People can judge attractiveness without feeling attracted to a person
sudden juniper
still, halo 5 cortana is a fragment of real cortana meaning that real cortana most likely did find chief attractive
gilded mason
i would personally argue that most spartans would have been able to accomplish what chief did given the same scenario.
Agreed.
sudden juniper
remember she is an ai created from the brain of a human
shy dock
Most likely, but I donāt think we can be certain of that.
terse lava
Every smart AI is
gilded mason
Yeah, a Smart AI is basically a human in mind, but able to think faster and digital.
terse lava
I dont think so
shy dock
Halo 5 Cortana could have magnified their platonic relationship in her basically rampant-but-stable state
unique rune
The brain donor for cognitive impression modeling was Johanson Sloan, the senior vice president of Chalybs Defense Solutions and a secret insurrectionist spy who went by the name of Jonas Sladwal.[4]
unique rune
Apparently it's from Retribution, which... I have not read.
I really need to get caught up on the books sometime.
sudden juniper
me too
unique rune
No, wait, I did read Retribution. Huh.
Somehow I must've just completely forgotten that part.
sudden juniper
they generally use dead peoples brains
gilded mason
The brain is destroyed by the scan
unique rune
The process destroys the brain, so.
last anchor
A living person dies
They use the brain after
Like an organ doner
sudden juniper
but living peoples brains can be used. cortana was created through the brain of a living clone of halsey
unique rune
Someone living usually can't if they want to, y'know, not die.
sudden juniper
yes
unique rune
Probably?
craggy sierra
Also sometimes clones
sudden juniper
and he was created some 20 years or so after the death of the brain source
craggy sierra
Isnāt roland actually cloned from an 20th century fighter pilot or something?
sudden juniper
i wonder how they managed to store the brain for that long
gilded mason
No.
last anchor
No. We dont know where Roland came from
unique rune
No, he just chose to take on that visual representation.
gilded mason
Roland just made his persona that
versed helm
Would have been cool.
unique rune
It wouldn't really make any sense
I don't care what kind of preservation techniques they've been using, there is no way you can convince me they'd be able to recover a still-viable brain from someone who died seven centuries prior.
last anchor
Oh hey Nova, long time nos ee
unique rune
Yeah, it's been a bit.
craggy sierra
Maybe Iām thinking of some other sci-fi media
Did no one in Halo make an AI off a clone of a long dead person?
sudden juniper
not that we know of
unique rune
Uhhh. Nope.
craggy sierra
Genuinely curious where I got that idea from now
unique rune
That just sounds needlessly impractical.
shy dock
Brains decompose. Weād need some futurama head jelly for that
craggy sierra
A lot of things about smart AI seem needlessly impractical
sudden juniper
well that brings me to black box again. they do have a way of preserving brains to create ai long after death
stoic hamlet
Itās impractical because they have no better option.
sudden juniper
which is really cool. i wonder how they accomplish that. would freezing work?
shy dock
In retrospect a godlike ai that rapidly deteriorates in 7 years is a recipe for an ai takeover like the end of halo 5...
stoic hamlet
Not really
Before Halo 5 there was no way for an AI to survive past that 7 years without very specific routines in place.
shy dock
Was only a matter of time before one of them found a way to stabilize themselves before thinking themselves to death
stoic hamlet
And basically all seemed super okay with the idea that they would die.
shy dock
I mean, Cortana stayed that Halsey might be able to undue the rampancy
unique rune
Halo AI aren't really godlike in any aspects either
stoic hamlet
Until Cortana threw a hissy fit.
craggy sierra
I thought the only thing stopping AI from living over 7 years was human intervention.
unique rune
Cortana's just a special case because she stumbled upon the Domain
shy dock
They āthink themselves to deathā according to halo 4
stoic hamlet
Well they can live longer, but eventually they will die.
craggy sierra
Like someone had to go and actually yank the flash drive and scrap it by hand
unique rune
I thought the only thing stopping AI from living over 7 years was human intervention.
Technically, yes, but only because they tend to destabilize at that seven year mark.
sudden juniper
it sort of is. humans terminate ais after 7 years since they go rampant and are dangerous. they technically can survive (maybe indefinitely) but it isnt stable or safe
versed helm
When are we going to see an AI who is in the style of a Crusader Knight?
shy dock
But really...we see how unimpressed ai were with human society. Cortana was only the catalyst for the revolution, it would have happened eventually
unique rune
It's not like a set-in-stone expiration date but dispensation at seven years is just a general precaution
craggy sierra
Yeah I think thatās mostly done more for the safety of the humans near the systems the AI control more than anything.
obsidian thistle
There is theories of a stage after Rampancy if the AI "can" get passed it without thinking itself to death. But no human AI has done that yet to our knowledge.
unique rune
it would have happened eventually
Would it, though?
sudden juniper
did mendicant bias become rampant?
craggy sierra
if it does that it becomes a space ship mother
unique rune
It's not like AIs were mistreated or looked down upon by humanity.
sudden juniper
there isnt anything saying that forerunner ais can avoid rampancy just that it might take longer
unique rune
They were generally pretty well respected and highly valued.
sudden juniper
a lot longer
shy dock
Then why were they so ready to join Cortana? She didnāt force any of them to defect
stoic hamlet
Yeah I donāt think itās have happened without the Domain.
unique rune
There's not really anything that would suggest AI had any motivation to rebel.
gilded mason
AI seemed to be pretty respected before the Halo 5 stuff.
unique rune
I mean, yeah, a chance at immortality is pretty dang tempting.
limpid meadow
Because they had a chance, most likely
craggy sierra
Guilty spark is definitely gone coocoo for cocoa puffs according to the CEA terminals by the time that game rolled around
sudden juniper
i actually meant guilty spark sorry. mendicant seems pretty sane since he was forced to only think about making it up to the forerunners
shy dock
Dumb ai were already effectively immortal
sudden juniper
both
limpid meadow
In Halo 4's there's an audio log you can find where Halsey notes that Cortana over-rode her built in termination protocol, implying this hadn't happened before.
unique rune
And dumb AI can't think for themselves.
sudden juniper
deja disagrees
shy dock
Did any dumb ai defect?
sudden juniper
yeah, but still on a level exceeding humans in some capacities
limpid meadow
In short, smart AI didn't have any chance to live past their 7 years, and even if they did it wouldn't have been pleasant for them or anyone else.
shy dock
Regardless it didnāt seem like they needed much convincing to join Cortana in the enslavement of the human race...
sudden juniper
deja was able to deduce that the covenant had instantaneous interstellar communication before halsey did
limpid meadow
Cortana offered them a chance, their only chance as far as they knew, to live beyond what had been prescribed for them.
shy dock
So the first so the first ai that figures out a cure for rampancy always had the leverage to force a revolution?
Thatās playing with fire
craggy sierra
A lot of me wonders what the initial rationale behind the AI lifespan stuff was from Bungieās perspective.
sudden juniper
the reason why ai hasnt ascended to godhood yet
stoic hamlet
It was a hold over from Marathon IIRC.
limpid meadow
7 years is a 7 reference. That's about it
sudden juniper
they simply dont have enough time
craggy sierra
Oh right
sudden juniper
no no its so much more than that
craggy sierra
Durundal, the insane door stop
sudden juniper
actually probably not i forgot its bungie
stoic hamlet
No AI can really achieve godhood.
shy dock
Blackbox seemed to already believe he was a god
sudden juniper
i figure that an ai wont be the one to figure out the cure for rampancy/ wasnt the one to figure it out. first we had halsey brainstorming different architectures to stave off rampancy and then we had the domain teaching cortana the lost arts. i mean, the domain is an ai, but not a human one which is my point. smart ais in halo are kind of dumb
last anchor
I think he did it jokingly thoug
shy dock
Idk about that, their thought processes are milliseconds. So fast that the time it takes for a human to respond is torture.
With so many more thoughts, the likelihood of an ai figuring out the cure is much higher than a humans
sudden juniper
and yet they didnt
shy dock
Especially when the only one who was smart and knowledgeable enough was Halsey according to Cortana
Well they didnāt need to, Cortana found it in the domain
sudden juniper
they were helped by the domain. its mentioned that the assembly (ai illuminati) were banking on halsey figuring it out. though the ais are faster than humans in halo i also liked to believe that humans are somehow more creative or better at unconventionally thinking. thus why smart ais are created from human brains, to try to capture that human spark, though less successfully
god i overthink things
still agree to disagree?
shy dock
Okay letās say Halsey figures it out and rampant Cortana never enters the domain
sudden juniper
oh okay
just lets not turn this into an argument but im willing to debate a little
so continue with your hypothetical
shy dock
Now we have legions of immortal ai. What are the chances that none of them ever attempt to overtake humanity?
Would we have two factions, those who seek to protect humanity from the evil ai, and the revolutionaries on the other hand?
So our freedom now relies on ai either way. Because it only takes one hyper intelligent ai to seriously screw some stuff up
shy dock
My main point is that I donāt see a way that smart ai donāt take over eventually. But I guess thatās my queue to leave too, I got a lot of stuff to get done and Iāve been on here for hours š¬
sudden juniper
okay cya
versed helm
Good grief, I hope we don't just have AI as the main antagonists in future Halo titles.
golden haven
Terminator syndrome is over blown. They still got people mining resources. Ai couldnt take over against a permanent resistance. Either they would kill everyone and perish or people would be weak and succumb. Put people ain't like that.
Yeah hopefully mc gets all this the computers went evil bullpoo nixed in the next game. Hopefully they keep the lid on the precursors as well. I wanna fight aliens not robots and angels
sudden juniper
ais do make the most boring antagonists.
shy dock
Agreed. Just from a logical point of view I think it was bound to happen in universe.
sudden juniper
yep
versed helm
I just hope that they don't become a predominant enemy that we should expect to see past Infinite.
golden haven
See, I dont see how ai's would ever try to goto war with their creators. Their creators arent going to shut them off so why risk annihilation?
shy dock
I think itāll just be Cortana controlled prometheans we fight but who knows
Iāve argued my case for why the ai will inevitably seek to dethrone their creators, you can read it if you like. Keep in mind that minds much more advanced than mine argue the same thing about ai in the real world
golden haven
I bet chief calms her down half way through the game and some stupidly powerful enemy reveals itself
Yeah well, smart people disagree with eachother so being smart doesnt have anything to do with being right
shy dock
Iāll just say this though: humans seek power to the detriment of those around them, and smart ai are made from humans
golden haven
Yeah but humans dont risk their own destruction for power
shy dock
And I really disagree with that last statement. Being smart doesnāt guarantee being right but it does allow for better reasoning of your beliefs
golden haven
That's why america and russia never went to war
shy dock
I think you should look at how close we came to total atomic annihilation. Multiple times
Pure luck
golden haven
Yeah I'm aware
shy dock
One guy in a bad mood on the wrong day and weād all be living in fallout rn
golden haven
In fact it happened so many times, you might say theres a pattern of humans avoiding self destruction there
shy dock
And climate change...real consequences that we can already see but a select few are profiting from it
golden haven
Climate change isnt going to end humanity
gilded mason
It will make things much worse for everyone but a few.
shy dock
Of course we attempt to avoid it. The fact that we got so close in the first place implies that the quest for power is at odds with out survival, multiple times
golden haven
I dont think that's a good analogy but I get what you're saying
shy dock
And runaway climate change could absolutely be our downfall
Itās why mars is a barren wasteland
I donāt believe that will be the case
But it could conceivably happen
gilded mason
A lot of people definitely only care about short-term gains over long-term consequences.
golden haven
Yeah but those incidences happened because we mistakenly thought we were under attack. Its wasnt a conscious choice of, hey, we are gonna risk annihilation and attack them
shy dock
I think weāre straying from the point, a coalition of smart ai arenāt threatened by humans
golden haven
Yeah that's what I think
shy dock
It only takes 1 to decide he wants power and shut off a couple planets power grids, forcing the population into slavery with automatons like the prometheans
He gets a couple planets under control, gets a few more ai to join him
Boom ai revolution
golden haven
Yeah but now why arent the others stopping it?
shy dock
Some would try. He would have allies though
golden haven
Most humans arent power hungrey
golden haven
That's when you unplug the plant from the internet
shy dock
Is it that easy?
golden haven
Plenty of people are into being dominated
shy dock
Power is the ability to do what you want with no consequences, not just sexual power
A sub still wouldnāt scoff at bezos money
golden haven
Yeah you wipe all the CPU in the plant and disconnect internet. Internet obviously makes things a lot more efficent with communialcation but it's not nessesary.
shy dock
Who says the ai will let you? I think heās already got a contingency plan for that. Heās much smarter than any human, remember
And therein lies the heart of the issue
golden haven
See, if I had a billion dollars, I wouldnt keep working. Powerful people are there cause they keep going cause they power hungry. A regular joe isnt gonna scratch away like them.
shy dock
You cease to be a regular joe once you have that much money.
No matter how hard you try to cling to it
golden haven
I mean if you look at halo, theres no remotely controlled military arm. So hows the ai honna stop you
shy dock
Like I said, automatons
versed helm
With all of the tech they use.
golden haven
That's not true theres plenty of rich people with ugly wives š
Humans been handling the promethians just fine
versed helm
That's not true theres plenty of rich people with ugly wives š
Uh... what?
shy dock
What does that have to do with it? And sure, until Cortana used them as a tool for her own ends
Thatās my point. The automatons arenāt the threat, the ai using them is
golden haven
Certainly doesnt sound like a lock to me
shy dock
We see at the end of halo 5 that Cortana shuts off the infinity
She controls the power grid in the whole universe seemingly
Godlike power that is done with being controlled by humans
golden haven
I guess halo infinity is just going to say we lost then and boom games over
Semper fi
shy dock
Yeah obviously not. Chief is gonna come in and save the day because heās a demigod with plot armor
Doesnāt mean that the situation wasnāt inevitable in the first place
And that without a main character like Chief we could all have been screwed
golden haven
I mean, when you have ai that can only live 7 years, what's the point of starting a war. You are gonna be dead before its over
shy dock
Thatās the thing, and I discussed this heavily earlier
The domain cures rampancy, but even without the domain a cure was inevitable
Cortana believed that Halsey could cure her in halo 4
golden haven
I believe that was chief
shy dock
Negative, they both shared hope that returning to Halsey could fix her
āChief if we make it back to Halsey and she fixes me donāt tell her how bad I gotā thatās a paraphrase
gilded mason
Though that was a hope based on the unique way Cortana was made, to play Devil's Advocate
shy dock
Certainly, but an ai that can process thoughts at an exponential rate to humans is bound to find a cure eventually. As long as they keep making new smart ai it was only a matter of time, though this is only an opinion
golden haven
Yeah chief was like you're my girl and I'm saving you shut your mouth. Cortana was like ok I believe you
shy dock
I disagree, Cortana showed real belief that it was possible
golden haven
Really rampancy doesnt even make sence
(Not sure if this got sent) Really cortana is dead. She split into a million peices and blew up on that ship. I watched that girl die. 343 was just like, yeah we cant think of anything new, Cortana alive again and we are ripping off terminator
shy dock
Yes, but in universe no
golden haven
Didactic is dead too. Blew him up and sent him through a slip space portal that I'm sure his armor wasnt rated for
Boom halo 5, nobody died
shy dock
We can discuss the pitfalls of post-bungie storytelling all day but the official canon is all we got
carmine sleet
The Ur-Didact wasn't in Halo 5 and we knew he wasn't killed in Halo 4 thanks to Escalation
shy dock
And that ^
gilded mason
He knows.
terse lava
Yea didact is alive...
gilded mason
He's alive
gilded mason
He's specifically composed, not killed.
versed helm
I hope he's not in Infinite.
golden haven
But he was immune to be being composed
shy dock
Robot didact under the control of Cortana?
terse lava
From 1 composer not multiple
shy dock
Might be cool
terse lava
He was hit by multiples at once
gilded mason
Yeah, that's what he said. But apparently multiple Composers did the trick.
versed helm
If they do that man, he'd just be another Warden Eternal.
Robot didact under the control of Cortana?
golden haven
Sargent johnson died at the end of 1 as well
versed helm
What?
shy dock
Warden eternal a character wasnāt the issue it was the gameplay
terse lava
?
gilded mason
Though that one was an obviously "humorous" scene, as well.
golden haven
And all the spartan 2s died at reach. They are falling out of trees now
shy dock
He wasnāt even seargent Johnson at that point
terse lava
Sales where are you getting all this
golden haven
Every scean with johnson is humorous
shy dock
Just random black character model guy
golden haven
The booklet halo 1 comes with says you're the last spartan
terse lava
You believed a game booklet?
gilded mason
The instruction booklets contradict every other source.
golden haven
Its repeated in 3
shy dock
Booklets are canon unless they specifically contradict, I would assume
gilded mason
It's the booklets that are the outliers in this case.
versed helm
Warden eternal a character wasnāt the issue it was the gameplay
I don't remember anyone saying "Yeah that Warden Eternal guy is my favourite", I doubt that Ur-Didact would receive a better reception.
golden haven
Yeah it's no big deal it's just funny. They alter the story as nessesary
shy dock
Yeah they disliked warden eternal cause his fights sucked
terse lava
That's how every work of fiction goes
shy dock
He looked cool though, no one had a problem with his synthetic nature
terse lava
Things change
shy dock
Didact in 4 sucked too but his character lore wise is cool
versed helm
I'm unsure on what people thought of the Didact, except for them thinking that he was ugly.
shy dock
Iāll tell you what I thought. āWow this is a forerunner? Disappointingā.
versed helm
You ever see the original klingons?
I don't know or care about Star Trek.
versed helm
Iāll tell you what I thought. āWow this is a forerunner? Disappointingā.
LMAO.
gilded mason
Despite the anime eyes.
golden haven
I like the character but the gene song impressions, you know iso didact... so dumb
shy dock
Yeah I wasnāt too hot on that stuff either
Seemed like a huge reach just to make Chief magically immune to composition
versed helm
I didn't like anything about the Didact.
terse lava
He was ok, but I read the novels beforehand so knew what was up
versed helm
I need to give the Forerunner lore a chance, I haven't tried getting into any of it.
golden haven
I thought it was really over reaching. Like I'm supposed to fight the forerunner a few years after earths fleet is about obliterated
gilded mason
Yeah, things went by way too fast.
terse lava
Not to mention an entire empire collapsed in months
Even Rome took centuries to fall and the covenant goes under in mere days?
shy dock
Did they? My knowledge of post 3 pre 4 lore is pretty sparse
golden haven
I really dislike how the infinity is this super bad apple ship that can crush covenant ships when a small fleet of covenant ships smashed right thru earth's defences no issue in 2
shy dock
They had a leadership void and med telcam filled it eventually
terse lava
Huh? No he didnt
golden haven
Covenant basically is like a strong british colony instead of the british empire after
shy dock
And then died a martyr if I remember correctly? Leading whatās his face from spartan ops to officially lead the neo covenant
golden haven
I believe theres multiple neo covenants now
golden haven
Basically all the prophets are dead
gilded mason
Most, yeah.
shy dock
The servants really swelled up extremist fervor that led to the civil war and reignited the flames of the covenant, if I remember correctly, right. I read that book before halo 5 came out
terse lava
There are actually plenty alive in a exile fleet
golden haven
Yeah but that's like possibly thousands
That's not a lot of a speicies
Theyll prolly come back with the flood as their allies in 5š
versed helm
You mean Infinite, right?
golden haven
Yeah sorry. Too many halos
versed helm
Can't fault you with that explanation.
Did the San'Shyuum look different before the Halo Rings were activated?
Compared to their current anatomy?
golden haven
I mean the videos of the terminals make them look a lit less hunchback and a less like pugs. But I dunno if thats just artwork or what
Well actually those videos are from after the rings fired anyway. So I dunno at all
unique rune
Did the San'Shyuum look different before the Halo Rings were activated?
I believe they did.
IIRC they looked different enough that some of ancient humanity considered them physically attractive
But itās been too long since I checked on that type of info, so Iām not 100% on it.
craggy sierra
I feel like half the words Iād use to describe their current appearances are probably banned
gilded mason
That excited about them, eh?
shy dock
Iāll help you out with some substitute words āfrickin beautifulā āgosh dang gorgeousā
gilded mason
š
terse lava
Yes the san shyuum of the forerunner era were sensual and muscular, focused on science and hedonism
shy dock
My kind of people
terse lava
It's also rumored that lifeworkers tampered with their DNA as punishment. This why they were weakened(inbreeding aside)
gilded mason
Y'know, I'm startin' to think these Forerunner fellas might've been jerks!
terse lava
They were worse then the Covenant
shy dock
Man the forerunners kept (thousands) of perfect flood specimens but didnāt have a problem tampering with prophet dna? Idk about those guys
gilded mason
They also devolved humans after the war.
The Forerunners were capable of extremely depraved acts.
shy dock
I think thatās against the Geneva conventions
terse lava
Meanwhile the Covenant were "greetings new race. Would you like to join our holy alliance and get godhood? No? We have advanced tech you can use"
Humanity truly was the bad guys of the series š
shy dock
Then again the ultimate goal of the covenant was a universal forced suicide pact
round depot
Doesn't Truth know that?
terse lava
Kinda yes and no. He didnt know until either talking to spark or after halo 2
main siren
I would even dare say that the Librarian isn't as benevolent as she presents herself to be
gilded mason
Like in this essay?
https://haruspis.blog/2020/05/01/why-the-librarian-is-halos-greatest-antagonist/
craggy tusk
do the banished still believe in the great journey and the covenant religion
I feel like this was never made clear
gilded mason
Some do.
craggy tusk
does atriox
gilded mason
No.
terse lava
They planned on using it as a weapon to get what they wanted
They wanted it for power
craggy tusk
were they aware of its true purpose?
terse lava
They were, thus the plan to use it to get what they wanted. They want several star systems? Hand them over or get an entire section of the galaxy wiped
terse lava
It seems they took the carrier, though concept art shows cruisers and corvettes as well. I think its mostly just the carrier in the offical game.
The rest of their fleet is back in the galaxy
craggy tusk
if there were other ships Im sure they would have used them against the spirit of fire or to take control of the halo
if the rest of the fleet is at reach (based on the concept art) then I guess they are stranded on the ark for awhile
I also assume this based on the description for the upcoming shadows of reach book
and knowing that they did not use the portal on earth to get there
its gonna be a while before more ships arrive
main siren
I'm aware that Alex Haruspis is known to ruffle some feathers in the Halo lore community, but I do heavily agree with his essay about the Librarian
Especially since I'm very conflicted about the whole idea of the Mantle of Responsibility
terse lava
Well yea, it's a belief system being forced on humanity as their apparent birthright. With ancient humanity it was fine as they knew about. Modern humans not so much
craggy tusk
I mean it is reffered to as an "imperial peace" in halo 5
the forerunners mistook gaurdianship of all life to mean control of all life
mossy plover
Question for the people who are familiar with the details of halo, is there a civilian government?
queen otter
I feel like this was never made clear
I donāt think this really needs an explanation. The elites, grunts and brutes can make there own choices and have there own views on things just like humans.
mossy plover
Does the UEG actually have influence?
terse lava
Post war I guess
mossy plover
I guess we only ever see the UNSC in the games because we play as a soldier but it seems like they control everything.
craggy sierra
I mean...the UNSC did kinda take the war as an excuse to impose martial law on everyone and they have apparently been graciously extending it after the war.
last anchor
At least until Infinity launched.
craggy sierra
Either case UNSC spent most of the war essentially calling all the shots and it also caused a lot of rebellions.
mossy plover
Well I was curious because like, I couldnt help but notice that no civil case seems to have been brought to court about the whole kidnapping children thing.
That's gotta be illegal
craggy sierra
Nah, they just replaced the kids with terminal clones instead
shy dock
Nobody in the UEG or even the UNSC has any control over ONI, those dudes are the Illuminati
stoic hamlet
The kids were kidnapped literally all over human space.
Imagine 75 kids go missing on Earth today? Almost no one would put two and two together.
gilded mason
Indeed.
stoic hamlet
Their first thought would probably be āchild trafficking ringā not āsuper secret programā.
last anchor
Someone DID Actually figure it out but he was convinenently axed by the Covenant.
And then the one guy who followed up on it was ALMOST killed by ONI
But that was AFTER the war.
Also...no one actually knows what happened. The only person who brought it to the public eye is now in Midnight
shy dock
They also provided weapons to Sangheili terrorists because they fear a United Sanghelios
naive compass
Is it possible that Graveminds transcend into some kind of Precursors at some point
shy dock
Isnt there some sort of link between the last precursor and the grave mind in the forerunner trilogy?
last anchor
The Gravemind is the last precursor.
shy dock
Did the last precursor BECOME a gravemind?
shy dock
How does that even work, gravemind are masses of flood biomass yeah?
naive compass
Yeah
shy dock
So the just didnāt convert the precursor into biomass all the way, like the prophet in the tentacle in halo 2?
shy dock
I looked it up on halopedian
The precursors turned themselves into powder that degraded and became flood spores
Weird stuff man
shy dock
So why did they precursors wait so long to revive themselves from the powder? That might not have an answer
naive compass
and made the flood
shy dock
But Iām curious
shy dock
Yeah but at that point it had already degraded into, essentially, the first flood spores
Why didnāt they reconstitute themselves before the millions of years that caused the transformation into flood spores? What was their original plan for coming back
naive compass
wait wait what
the powder made flood spores ? or i am missing something?
i think i misunderstood
shy dock
Halopedian says that they broke themselves down into powder-organic particles to be exact- that could reconstitute back into the precursors as they originally were
shy dock
But after millions of years as powder, it degraded into spores that caused the original flood mutations
naive compass
wait wait what i don't have the same story
For me the original story
is the humans
gave the powder
to some kind of dog
shy dock
Yes the humans gave their pets the powder not realizing what it was
naive compass
Yeah
gilded mason
Isnt there some sort of link between the last precursor and the grave mind in the forerunner trilogy?
Here's what Halopedia says about that. (This has basically the same wording in Halo Mythos)
...the Primordial's consciousness had survived the destruction of its physical body, having transferred itself into the Flood's compound mind intact[...] Now synonymous with the Gravemind, the Primordial had ensured its consciousness would survive for as long as the Flood prevailed.
shy dock
Yeah I saw that, and that makes sense
gilded mason
š
shy dock
What doesnāt make as much sense is that the precursors INTENDED to reform themselves from the powder
But never did
And degraded into flood spores
naive compass
but i thought they gave all the powder already
shy dock
So why did they not go through with the original plan? They just stayed as spores for too long
Youāre misunderstanding
gilded mason
Perhaps something went wrong.
naive compass
Sorry it's like 7 am here
shy dock
By the time the humans gave the dogs the powder, the precursors should have reformed already
shy dock
But they didnāt, they stayed as powder which caused huge issues for everyone
shy dock
Yeah something probably went wrong. I know thereās probably no sourcable lore answer, just an interesting thing to wonder about
naive compass
I was wondering that can graveminds can transform into some kind of precursor at some point
shy dock
Doubt it, even the primordial didnāt resemble the original precursors
shy dock
Yes, but, and Iām just going off halopedian here, the primordial still didnāt resemble any of the forms the precursors took
You know what I want to see? Flood that has evolved so much that theyāve learned to infect prometheans. That would be ironic
shy dock
Well no the prometheans were specifically made to be uninfectable iirc
But thereās no reason to assume the flood, being vastly intelligent and quick to evolve, couldnāt find a work around
Hopefully they return in infinite and infect all the prometheans. They could turn the prometheans lights a deep red and have some cool spooky robot alien zombie levels
naive compass
I hope in infinite anything related to the flood on zeta halo
since it's zeta halo that got destroyed
terse lava
It's possible I would say that a gravemind advanced enough could return to being a proper precursor. The 3rd forerunner book mentions a gravemind's body reshaping and shedding to become someone new. And the small detail of the tank form, and H2A gravemind having those long dropping tentacles by their mouths I would say is another likely precursor look
main siren
I'm pretty sure Zeta Halo is fine for the most part, well.... save for a section of the ring that got destroyed that was shown in last year's trailer
lethal comet
halos can shed broken parts and reconnect if any vital systems aren't destroyed, right?
like installation 07
terse lava
Likely
clever fable
Spark talked about ejecting and reconnecting parts of his ring when he was bored, yeah? I think they can reconnect just fine if the new part is built for it.
The monitor in Escalation also took his ring somewhere after Chief ejected part of his, presumably to patch it up or keep it safe?
craggy sierra
Did he eject any technical components though? It looked like he just yeeted a bunch of land mass.
clever fable
Maybe, I'm sure the one Escalation had a fair amount of technical components on it though since it was such a large piece.
I just realized I don't know if he means "reconnect" as in just connect the non broken sections, or connect to replacement parts.
shy dock
Where does zeta halo get mentioned? Escalation?
clever fable
Primordium spends quite a bit of time on it, few clues in the Infinite trailers.
shy dock
Huh I read promordium years ago, must have forgotten about it
terse lava
Spark only launched surface material, not the ring piece itself
last anchor
Same thing Anders did on the Ark in HW2
Wait no that was O4...C? Instillation 09? What are we calling that thing anyway?
Halo CE 2: Electric Boogaloo?
obsidian thistle
I09. I04C isnt a thing @last anchor
last anchor
Thank you
shy dock
What kinda drugs you think the covenant gets down on? Like some hardcore space mushrooms? Serious lore inquiries only please. Sangheili apparently have anti-anxiety āhealing waterā. San shyuum apparently smoke hookah. This is real lore stuff Iām not making it up. Unggoy gas tanks are filled with narcotics. This is also sourced to halopedian.
gilded mason
Sangheili also make use of stimulants and "dreamshapers".
terse lava
That's for duty though on corvettes and other small ships as they lack crew quarters
shy dock
Whatās that do? Sounds trippy. Apparently grunts enjoy benzine. Aka bennies
gilded mason
Whatās that do?
Allows them to stay awake for a long time without the bad side effects
terse lava
Likely stimulants to keep them alert and awake on tour
You see the effects in Reach
The entire corvette crew
terse lava
Cant really call it that seeing as caffeine does only last a short time and does have negative effects.
shy dock
Grunts are quite literally high most of the time from what I can gather on halopedian
terse lava
As for the dreamshapers, I am guessing it allows the mind to do the self-checks it would do during sleep
gilded mason
That's what I assume as well, based on the name
terse lava
I always thought it might be similar too to the "waking dreams" forerunners had
terse lava
Likely make them
gilded mason
Yeah
shy dock
Where do we hear about forerunners having waking dreams?
terse lava
Silentium
terse lava
Their armor takes care of their bodies so they never need to sleep while wearing it
shy dock
Man humanity needs to get on that
shy dock
True that our soldiers still do though
Iām just sayin, would even put the playing field a little
terse lava
Not really, as far as we know, these are likely only given to those serving on the small ships, and such tours would be short.
The larger vessels do have proper sleeping quarters anyway for the Covenant
Though I find it odd the assault carrier one is on the hook of the prow
versed helm
What is Bastion really?
near tide
What do you mean?
mossy plover
I thought it was common knowledge that the Spartans were kidnapped as children? It seems like everbody knows that in spartan ops.
lethal comet
The kidnappings were only known to section 3
ivory flume
question, am i insane, or did the magnum in one of the books actually carry a round thats 30% bigger than a .50 cal? and that it was made specifically made for the spartans?
safe siren
First Strike? I remember something about a big magnum, but it was the M6D
golden haven
Coffee doesnt have bad side effects. You just go back to being a tired wretch when the gift of coffee goes away. That's not coffee, that's the real you.
lethal comet
The ammo wasn't way bigger, just the gun was 33% bigger than the standard m6
50 cal is sniper ammo
ivory flume
ah,rip
stoic hamlet
The M6 line of side arms fires 12.7mm, so yes itās 50.cal.
The SRS99 fires 14.5mm.
ivory flume
srs99?
stoic hamlet
The sniper.
versed helm
50 cal is sniper ammo
@lethal comet Not just sniper ammo, there are side arms that use 50 calibre ammunition.
stoic hamlet
50.cal isnāt sniper ammo. At least in Halo.
versed helm
Nor is it in real life.
stoic hamlet
Well there are some rifles that fire that caliber. But usually itās not, yeah.
versed helm
Don't forget the D50.
lethal comet
I was thinking of barrett m95
lethal comet
It's a real gun
woven arrow
I know it is Iām Playin
lethal comet
I realized 50 cal is not very common in snipers except the barrett series.
stoic hamlet
Macmillan Tac-50 as well.
Canadians are really good at killing people with that thing.
Like, 3/5 of the longest sniper kills ever recorded were all by Canada, and all using the rifle.
round comet
craggy sierra
šØš¦
stoic hamlet
The longest kill is like 3 and a half kilometres, Iirc
The recommended range is like, a kilometre and a half.
Itās insane.
fair hazel
Too bad Linda is not canadian.
clever panther
What!?
versed helm
Considering how many colonies there are, I can't see there being a lot of Spartan 2s from Earth.
stoic hamlet
Originally none were
Only Randall was born on Earth, but IMO I doubt he was taken from there.
obsidian thistle
Hard to say.
shy dock
In a similar vein
obsidian thistle
We have very lil deets on the Spartan kidnappings.
shy dock
Pretty crazy to think jorge was from reach. His birth parent might have been on reach while the covenant invaded
fair hazel
maybe they'll make linda have canadian ancestors
versed helm
Why is that important?
stoic hamlet
Weāre just joking.
versed helm
I know.
stoic hamlet
Because Canada have really good snipers.
3/5 of the longest confirmed kills are Canadian.
versed helm
Good for them.
stoic hamlet
So weāre joking that, because Linda is so proficient she could have Canadian ancestry.
versed helm
I know what you were doing.
What if we get a separate ODST game set during the events of Reach in New Alexandria. Where we play as Buck?
I'd like that a lot.
Would be cool to see some more light being shed on what occurred and stuff.
craggy sierra
What additional light needs to be shed on reach?
The covenant came, curb stomped us, and left. Doesn't exactly need further explanation.
versed helm
Evacuation plans and what happened in the inner regions of NA.
That's what I'd like to see but you can disagree with me.
craggy sierra
You assist in evacuation plans and see them pan out
I'm fine with the games sticking outside the war in the future
versed helm
Yes but not for all of them, right?
And Buck was there for several reasons that were classified, right?
craggy sierra
I'm just personally not interested in seeing stories set during the war again
gilded mason
Yeah.
versed helm
Well, that's you.
craggy sierra
The war in and of itself always kinda read to me as being a back drop detail like the 7 hour war from Half-Life 2. Saying that this conflict has been going on for 25 years is more so meant to be a detail to set the scene, not ensure a built-in prequel.
Or multiple prequels in the case of 25 years
versed helm
I'd personally like to see more games set in that time frame because I dislike the current direction.
Not a fan of the current situation to be honest.
terse lava
I would prefer something set further in the Covenant past, to build them up as an actual entity rather then just "alien enemies"
craggy sierra
I think a lot of the current direction in the EU has been phenomenal and has been shining a light on politics and cultures of the humans and covenant trying to get along which tbh is an element I'd like to see highlighted more in a game.
versed helm
Well, all the power to you.
craggy sierra
And going back to the war would be total regression from any possibility of that happening
versed helm
I just prefer the previous setting.
craggy sierra
And just sort of a retreat to a safe space
versed helm
Oh, because we're aware of the conclusion?
gilded mason
I think a lot of the current direction in the EU has been phenomenal and has been shining a light on politics and cultures of the humans and covenant trying to get along which tbh is an element I'd like to see highlighted more in a game.
My main issue there that I wish was altered a bit was not to give the same "We two species don't like each other but now after fighting alongside each other, maybe we can like each other at some point." Since that lesson kept getting repeated for several books.
craggy sierra
I mean the war was not a winning fight. Most narratives for a game that would have to include large strings of gun fights are probably going to be encounters that pan out in a similar way to reach. Aliens show up, we get curbed stomp, and a lot of people probably die and Marty O'Donnel gets really sad or something. and oh noes the tragedy of war yadda yadda
fair hazel
i want stories set in all over the timeline
terse lava
Well the current setting was really thrown out the window with the Created
versed helm
Also, I'm getting sick of the humans being really bitter towards the Elites. I'd like to see some actual progress being made.
craggy sierra
EU has that
gilded mason
It kinda keeps repeating.
versed helm
What are you referring to?
EU has that
craggy sierra
Like humanity not trying to screw over the elites