...is Hapes still a thing? I know Dathomire is.
#lore-and-universe
last anchor
versed helm
And the Republic have the Jedi too at their disposal.
The Clones are just Chips Dubbo as an army.
but if it turned out to be a free-for-all
i think the UNSC would kick glutes
last anchor
Probably
30 years of having your face pushed into the mud by xenos will tend to make you...RESISTANT
slim thorn
AT Tactical Enforcer can be whooped easily by Scorpion Tank
violet notch
Are you guys kidding? The UNSC has nowhere near the raw numbers to hold off the Empire. The Empire has a stupid number of ships and soldiers, because they strove to get as many citizens to work in or for the military as they could, to make them so reliant on it for every aspect of their lives.
"The fleet that destroyed Reach was 50 times this size." Yeah well ya ain't seen anything yet. Try 500x that size.
Plus the Death Star is a threat that nothing the UNSC has to stop it.
You think the "splipspace rupture detected" sequence made it feel like a lot of ships? You wouldn't handle the numbers the Empire could muster.
fair hazel
The empire has numbers yes but doesn’t mean they have the firepower.
And the unsc does have stuff to stop the Death Star
Covenant ships were like, they had massive tech advantage
violet notch
The Empire uses their numbers to do to planets roughly equivalent to Glassing. And those are just using their standard artillary batteries, and yet they're able to achieve a similar kind of damage output.
In the Empire's case, numbers = firepower.
fair hazel
It would take a loooooooot if ships in one location to do that effectively on the level of the covenant.
fair hazel
Tuning the cannons to be more powerful takes hours. Otherwise it’s still low level firepower bombardment
violet notch
Now if we were talking the Empire vs. the Covenant. While the Empire's numbers would help, the Covenant's sturdier ships and higher yield weapons would be an easy win.
slim thorn
The thing is, the Empire doesn't stand a chance if they are fighting the Covenant. Their warships can be melted by Plasma Torpedoes in a single hit, piercing the force field due to the strong heat.
violet notch
Yeah, we're in agreement there.
last anchor
(Laughs in CAS Supercarrier, larger even than the biggest Super Star Destroyer)
violet notch
But Empire vs. UNSC. Sorry, but the UNSC doesn't stand a chance.
It's simply a matter of numbers.
And tech.
But mostly numbers.
last anchor
Y'all are forgetting that the Empire doesnt have protection against Smart AIs and cybernetic infiltration
violet notch
They also don't rely solely on AI's to run their ships.
Almost everything is operated manually by someone.
They have droids.
But the whole ship isn't a droid.
fair hazel
The unsc can stand.
slim thorn
UNSC can stand though... If using technology on Human-Covenant War conflict, it will be neck to neck.
But with post Human-Covenant war, UNSC can win it.
fair hazel
They engage at a distance, and as the empire ships approach, they get picked off by MACs one by one. Until they get even close enough to fire.
slim thorn
Missiles is obsolete since Empire got jammers around their ship
violet notch
Imagine the "splipspace rupture detected" moment in Reach. But for every single encounter. Wartime UNSC would be overwhelmed every time, heck they already were mostly overwhelmed when fighting the Covenant.
slim thorn
So MAC rounds is the best option to deal with the Star Destroyers.
If the Empire is attacking, they will already take heavy losses because of ODP alone and UNSC's ODP is practically can snipe the Empire's fleet.
violet notch
Imperial ships wouldn't be caught out of range. Their hyperdrives are pretty accurate. They've been shown to warp in pretty close to their targets.
slim thorn
Pretty close but not stupid enough to get caught in ODP's firing range when out from slipspace. The moment the Empire is still preparing the Fighters, around 100 of them will be whooped out by ODP.
last anchor
Also most Star Destroyers have TERRIBLE point defense.
Can you say "Mass Spartan-IV boarding teams"?
And of course Longsword bombing runs. Seriously, if y-Wings armed with EMP weaponry can shut down that one over Scarrif imagine what Longswords loaded with those late-war x-ray particle spear warheads could do
last anchor
That requires accurate maps of the location they're fighting in anyway
slim thorn
UNSC Infinity can splatter a Star Destroyer
fair hazel
The last Jedi showed us the super close range of Star Wars ships
Slipspace rupture detected scene had a few CAS slipspace in. Those outmatch so many imperial ships
last anchor
The CSO alone is bigger than even a Super Star Destroyer
By like...15 klicks, easy
Sure they're rare but the fact the Covenant made those kinds of things
slim thorn
Furthermore, Star Destroyers are very vulnerable for boarding parties
last anchor
Mass S-IV boarding parties launched from Slepinr dropships
Tight coridors, dudes in power armor, NOT GOOD
fair hazel
Don’t know what those are like though.
last anchor
What the Slepnirs?
fair hazel
Yes. We don’t have much info on them sadly
slim thorn
You mean Sleipnirs?
last anchor
Considering they designed armor for it, I figure its like a Pelican but amped to the gills
And if its Spartan-use only, most likely the safety limiters on a Pelicans engines are removed.
Im seeing what was once a Pelican, but now has like, 8 engines (how many legs did a Sleipnir have again?) and an explosive breaching nose cone like Blue Teams pelican in Fall of Reach
slim thorn
I think it's specialized for Spartan who's good at piloting
last anchor
Theres four or five armors for that, theres specifically a set of armor for piloting the Sleinir
fair hazel
I won’t speculate on the dropship for this. Too many unknowns
slim thorn
If we're looking at how Covenant operates, The Empire doesn't stand a chance especially for Clandestine Operation.
last anchor
Honestly a normal Pelican would work fine if it was piloted by a Spartan
slim thorn
Imagine that Emperor Palpatine's vital documents are being infiltrate and taken by Sangheili Zealots, catching them totally off-guard.
fair hazel
Huh?
slim thorn
Zealots often hunts for artifacts and important documents, right?
last anchor
Yes. Hence their presence on Reach.
slim thorn
If they are operated on Empire, probably getting a Death Star map will be also a cakewalk for them.
last anchor
Pffftttt.
Active camo Sangheili sneak into the Imperial Palace and ransak the place looking for Forerunner artifacts.
"Nothing here but heretic trash!"
(Kicks over a priceless Sith statue)
fair hazel
Covenant had luminaries
Although huragoks would be where it’s at to get info out of stuff
slim thorn
Yeah, but huragoks needs to be taken as well. Zealots can do the job more better without Huragoks unless they know the entrance that can fits it without letting the security notice it.
The Empire got little time to watch fireworks (As Grunt often makes a suicide Plasma Fireworks when they are close to each other).
last anchor
I mean if you wanna cause a distraction haha
slim thorn
Yes, but it also give the Empire a sense of entertainment as well.
fair hazel
Um. I’m not sure how zealots csn do the job better than huragok a
slim thorn
Does Huragok can go active camouflage? If the data can't be accessed remotely, you need to go in there undetected.
fair hazel
I’m sure there’s ways of making them camo but
last anchor
Dont think they can, no. That said theres nothing stopping someone from slapping an av cam modeuel on them and letting them do their thing
last anchor
TBH Eric, the biggest issue with sending a Huragok to find stuff is that they would get distracted
slim thorn
And Zealots knows where to pick it up in the first place.
last anchor
Because they...fix things. Or improve things. And something tells me theres a LOT of stuff in wherever they'd be keeping the Death Star plans that would need fixing.
...
Huragok steals Kylo Rens lightsaber because of the shattered cyrstal and the hilt-blade things
fair hazel
Except huragoks are used to infiltrate and stuff.
last anchor
It needs to fix it
fair hazel
And zealots wouldn’t know where to pick it up in the first place
slim thorn
So by the time security discovered their soldiers are being killed, the Zealots probably got what they need and already on a hangar to seize the Transport.
fair hazel
They haven’t interacted with the systems before. It’s new to them.
How do they even know what they need?
slim thorn
San Shyuum always informs them or the Covenant can get information more from outside Scarif
last anchor
Im wondering why they'd want the Death Star plans int eh first place
Not like they need them...they burn planets more effectively anyway.
fair hazel
The San shyuum aren’t omniscient beings
last anchor
I was gonna say...
Hard to miss something the size of a moon.
And its got Forerunner death beam lasers in that spire under its dome
slim thorn
Considering the attack range itself, the Covenant Fleet need to be hurried or rush in to make sure it didn't happen. Should they can send Zealots to destroy it, why not?
fair hazel
Size of a “moon”. A tiny asteroid one.
last anchor
Its still pretty hard to miss
last anchor
True. Then again plasma tends to be pretty accurate doesnt it?
Travels in a straight line. Or is guided in the form of torpedos
slim thorn
Wasn't the attack range is out of range?
fair hazel
Plasma lances, and lasers straight line
slim thorn
Unless they can use Sniper Ships
last anchor
Most Covenant ships are snipers technically. Lance batteries are accurate out to obsurd ranges
slim thorn
As for the ground forces, what do you think?
fair hazel
Plasma bolts are deadlier than blaster bolts
slim thorn
Clone Troopers can got easily overwhelmed. Covenant can do a rapid-deployment and so is UNSC too.
last anchor
Most Star Wars vehicles seem to be very large and bulky. Easy targets for fast fliers like Banshees or even dropship turrets.
Actually, I dont think the Empire has a rapid deployment dropship equivilent to the Pelican or the LAAT does it? Just shuttles like the Lambda.
Correct me if Im wrong and they added in something new in the recent movies. MAYBE the transport TIE from Rouge One but that seemed Scariff exclusive
slim thorn
Well, additionally they often need to put their Star Destroyers inside planet so it can be an easy target for AA Batteries. Considering how The Covenant were fast to set up AA Networks just hours after arriving on the Ark, Star Wars Starships may got little chance to slip through.
last anchor
Correction; the Covenant were on the Ark for MONTHS
fair hazel
Did you out of all people say rouge
last anchor
Wait...no, weeks?
Erick how long did it take to get from Earth to the Ark?
It wasnt instant
fair hazel
About a month.
last anchor
So I was close. Okay. Still plenty of time to set up defenses.
fair hazel
Covenant weren’t on the ark for long actually
Alone I mean
But yes covenant and unsc csn deploy things fast
last anchor
didnt they get there faster than the UNSC and Covie seperatists cause they had that meeting on Forward Unto Dawn...
Whatever.
Honestly Im still amazed Star Destroyers can enter atmo and hang like that one did on Jedha...
slim thorn
Both just got like hours to chase from Earth.
fair hazel
Kodiak a shelling started destroyer. Hm
slim thorn
Wuh? You mean M-400 Kodiak?
fair hazel
Yes
last anchor
They have the range...
slim thorn
But not enough to match AV-7
fair hazel
What range do those have
I’m saying what I’m saying about kodiak cause the book with the diplomat
slim thorn
Are you talking about the Kodiak in Person or in M-400 Artillery Vehicle?
slim thorn
M-400 need to challenge the AV-7 though since AV-7 boasts higher attack range than M-400 Kodiaks.
But the size itself makes Kodiak more dependable
last anchor
Thank you Envoy for giving us viable data about the Kodiac
carmine sleet
Thank you Envoy for giving us more Grey Team
last anchor
Yes.
fair hazel
Thank you Envoy for giving us melody
last anchor
And proving that a NOVA can in fact destroy a planet
fair hazel
Or a Death Star honestly
And an illum
One thing that wasn’t discussed is the created forces against Star Wars forces
humble yacht
does star wars have AI? do droids count as AI?
fair hazel
Technically yes
humble yacht
guess they'd be more like Auntie Dots than Cortanas
last anchor
Star Wars has no equivilent to a Forerunner ancilla or a UNSC "smart" AI, no.
There are near sentient droids, and astromechs like R2 can handle things beyond their intended use if you dont mind-wipe them.
slim thorn
Only a Dumb AI is present. Also, The Empire also lack of AI in operating the ship.
last anchor
But nothing that can operate with full human inginuity like a smart AI
violet notch
There is another element we're leaving out.
Vader.
Imagine if the UNSC had to face against someone like the Diadact during the Covy war.
slim thorn
Does the Prophet can easily be convinced like that?
last anchor
Honestly I'd say the Didacts an even bigger threat than Vader.
violet notch
Only because of the Composer.
last anchor
This dude ran armies of trillions against an enemy that would not stay down.
violet notch
I drew the comparison using the abilities they individually show up front in the game.
last anchor
He fought the Ancient humans and won. He fought the Flood and probably would have won if he wasnt backstabbed by the Master builder.
humble yacht
I think Didact might be stronger than Vader
last anchor
The being we see in the Cryptum in Requiem is not the man that went in.
violet notch
Vader has a similarly impressive record.
humble yacht
Vader has the force but didact’s body is hella hardy
last anchor
Thats someone whos been stewing in his own hate and madness for 100,000 years with no access to the Domain.
humble yacht
And he has constraint fields
violet notch
Point is though. That Vader is a trump card at the Empire's disposal.
last anchor
Dude went toe to toe with four S-IIs in skunkworks ONI armor, WOUNDED, and killed all four
(Still mad about that)
slim thorn
Vader vs Didact, a contest of force
violet notch
Point I was trying to draw is how Vader changes the game in the Empire vs the UNSC.
last anchor
Just remember; Chief had to drop MULTIPLE COMPOSERS on the Didact to even "contain" him.
humble yacht
I thought he dropped Didact into multiple composers?
last anchor
He survived a pulse grenade blast at point blank range, falling through a slipspace portal in nothing but armor.
Both are probably right, at the end of Next 72 Hours he ejected a section of Gamma Halo with like seven of them onto the section holding 03s control room.
But since its a ring, I guess both are right, depending on if you consider the part ejected to be up or down.
If its up then he dropped the didact into them. If its down, he dropped them ONTO him.
Either way, same result
humble yacht
Was the Forge on I03, or was it just the portal to the forge?
last anchor
Portal to the Forge I believe.
Then the Didact had 03 brought to the Forge to load up the composers if I remember right.
humble yacht
That sounds right
sly field
didact and his meme ball™️ with space banana™️ here to compose you today
fair hazel
I meant the created. That includes prometheans. Soldiers. Guardians. Warden.
humble yacht
I think clones and troopers would have trouble with Prometheans
last anchor
Considering even Spartan-IVs have trouble with them (see; Hoya)...
Seriously Knights are a lot more tough than they are in game. They're RIDICULOUSLY sturdy.
Then again being literally entirely hardlight...
humble yacht
I thought frames were a composite of something akin to smart matter and hard light
versed helm
and given that prometheans wont actually feel the pain a trooper would on getting shot
last anchor
Most Prometheans are I believe.
Also Soldiers are a lot less complicated to produce, alongside Crawlers, so you can just overwhelm your enemy in teleporting taunting gun-weilding robots
Clone sthought fighting B1 and B2 battle droids were bad?
Now they can TELEPORT
humble yacht
Imagine if the droid army in the prequels was nothing but droidekas. Republic probably would have lost
versed helm
not to mention the psychological fear factor at fighting a totally unknown enemy
humble yacht
Prometheans probably would wreck droidekas
versed helm
droidekas would walk the other way if they saw a promethean
last anchor
For sure.
Actually its funny but in the old Legends lore the main answer to droidekas from clones was "call in artillery"
Or drop rocks and stuff on them like we see in the very first Clone Wars episode
versed helm
Having only Droidekas would be a bad idea. In large and open battlefields you could easily destroy them before they could get close. This is because they are really vulnerable when moving.
im pretty sure that one promethean could take on a squad of droidekas
humble yacht
Well, not a crawler
versed helm
especially since the promethean can literally call his gang whenever
im pretty sure they could overload the crawler shields
humble yacht
Crawlers don’t have shields
versed helm
Well couldn't a Watcher deflect blaster projectiles for the Promethean Knight?
fair hazel
Deflect? As in shield?
versed helm
No, change the direction of the projectile itself. Like they do with grenades.
I would think that they are slow enough to be able to do that.
humble yacht
Pretty sure they can only grab physical objects like that
And blaster fire moves much faster than a lobbed grenade
slim thorn
And if the Trooper throws a grenade, the Watcher can "here, have this back."
versed helm
Well Prometheans can already teleport so I see the Watchers as a kind of redundant enemy.
But they can be helpful at dealing damage and punishing the enemy.
carmine sleet
They aren't redundant because the Knights can teleport
The Watchers are there to support the Knights and Crawlers as they fight, such as catching grenades, like Valk mentioned, or shielding them
fair hazel
Force multiplier
Heal and repair. Spawn and revive.
Shield and throw back. And fight back.
versed helm
Yeah I kind of forgot about those abilities lmao.
My Promethean knowledge is very limited.
fair hazel
Also guardians would wreck Star Wars worlds
fair hazel
You’ve never played halo 5?
versed helm
I did but I deleted it from my memory.
versed helm
If I explained then I would just appear to be too negative.
fair hazel
They can work against technology. And deploy troops. Intimidation and pacification
versed helm
Are they Forerunner based machines or are they sentient?
humble yacht
Both
last anchor
Oh god bringing in Guardians...
EVERYTHING in Star Wars is moderate tech base. Thats a game-ender right there.
You think an Interdictor cruiser is bad, imagine something that can shut down an entire FLEET with one pulse and silence most of a planet
humble yacht
Why do you think the guardian at Sanghelios only shut down half the planet?
humble yacht
But Sanghelios isn’t that much larger than earth
last anchor
No, but in Bad Blood Im pretty sure someone mentions not even a Guardian can blanket an entire planet in one go
fair hazel
Earth was a special target
last anchor
The pulse just doesnt have enough range to fully wrap around the curvature of the planet. Considering its energy, it makes sense.
Also the guardian on Earth hit Sydney and I think thats about it.
Honestly I think Sydney's gone, considering a frigate fell onto it from above. Anyone else seen Mobile Suit Gundam?
OPERATION BRITISH right?
humble yacht
I assumed the guardian at earth knocked out the planet
last anchor
Not all of it I dont think. It got the moon though
humble yacht
If it’s range is that short then policing a whole system with one guardian seems not so efficient
clever fable
There isn't a lot about them that stays consistent with that description imo. I dunno whether to chalk that up as a series of inconsistincies, or if they really want to take them away from that whole 'police entire systems' thing.
The one at the end of Bad Blood really seemed like it was having a hard time doing its job lol
versed helm
Maybe we'll get more information in Infinite? Who knows...
versed helm
how could one guardian police a whole system?
a planet or two seems manageable, but a whole system?
sturdy ice
ok
rugged needle
I honestly don’t know
stoic hamlet
My guess was 343 were like “it sounds cool!” Without really taking into account how big a system really is.
versed helm
yo, 343 guys, you got some explaining to do
near tide
First order could take on the unsc
Starkiller could wipe the sol dystem or at least earth
Plus kylo and the legions of stormtroopers
And the palpatine clone
It could ness stuff up with the sith lightning
cyan slate
The pilots offical name is Dustin "brohamer" Echos
last anchor
Works for me.
Also...yeah, no. For Starkiller to work you need proper coordinantes. They hit Hosnian Prime because they knew where it was and where it would be in relation to...everything.
UNSC?
Cole. Bloody. Protocol. You cant hit what you cant find.
Also a Guardian can enforce an entire system probably cause for the most part systems of lesser races aren't exactly inhabited very much. Even Sol isn't MASSIVELY populated. Earth has most everything on it, the rest of the planets are lesser. Mars is probably the most settled. MAYBE some of the Jovian moons
But a Guardians more than fast enough via slipspace to handle that
versed helm
ahhh
but yeah
a full out war between the star wars universe and the halo-verse will result in SW getting PWND
fair hazel
A couple of nova bombs can take care of exagol and starkiller
I find it that halo would get to learn more about Star Wars side easier due to AI and huragoks
last anchor
Not even a couple. One well placed one, perhaps slipspaced in and given a full-burn acceleration with a disposable thrust engine...
Get it into atmo and the resulting detonation literally sets the entire planet on fire, like it did Joyus Exaltation.
lethal comet
or just drop the flood spores
with stormtrooper aim they ain't gonna kill the infection forms
near tide
The empire have fought something just like the flood
Though they would still be screwed
fair hazel
Uh no..?
versed helm
wait.....
near tide
Read death troopers
versed helm
when did the emipre fight something like the flood?
versed helm
but the flood that we know and love would still rek the empire
gaunt oakBOT
versed helm
oooohhhh, warden's got smarter
slim thorn
If the Flood gets a hand of clone facility, then they can place it as one of the primary Combat Forms production facility, too.
fair hazel
Flood infestation of Star Wars galaxy would be... so ... easy ..
Access to a lot of high density populations. Weaponry would be mostly ineffective. Easy access to interstellar, and planetary transports
A single flood infected ship crashing down on coruscant ... it’s over so fast...
versed helm
it'd be like new mozambique, but so much worse
past olive
a guardian could easily manage a star system
they have the ability to travel through slipspace whenever and they likely have planetary scanning equipment
if they don't have planetary scanning equipment then what do they even do
versed helm
given their size, i think they're just big and foreboding sub-woofers
carmine sleet
You'd be surprised
reef estuary
I mean the super carriers, the ability to create a clone army, instilled with combat knowledge from conception,
carmine sleet
Ok, you do realise that it took ten years for them to have an army sizeable enough to take on the CIS, right? Not to mention the fact that while the Clones are effective, they were still gunned down in combat very quickly
reef estuary
okay so what point are you alluding to when you say gunned down in combat very quickly? Like what do you mean by that and to which specific instance are you referring?
carmine sleet
I mean that as in the Clones are expendable to the Republic. One clone dies, another one can just replace them at the end of the day
reef estuary
mhm, thats a good thing if you're looking to fight out a long term large scale war,
while also the otherside the CIC is also a strong positive to the universe's war capacity, as being able to simply create an artificial military force of any capacity is impressive in of itself,
past olive
all clones are people too
simple locust
So what are those plant like structures we saw on 343 guilty spark and on High Charity in Halo 2? Was that how the elites who went into the structure got infected?
ancient path
Nah the flood was totally mess up the flood. I mean sure the clones are inbred for war but what makes them stand out is the massive population
The momentum will never stop
reef estuary
I think infection forms would have the most trouble against the clone troopers than any other faction in the haloverse
for one very basic reason, every single soldier is covered head to toe in armour
ancient path
That's true but the way I look at it, it's only a matter of time. Let's say a flood specimen infects a civilian in the Star Wars Universe, it'll eventually build up and spread across the galaxy. But if we're just talking about the clone troopers only? I still the clones would have a tough time dealing with it because it's not like the clone troopers have full immunity against the flood and like i mentioned before, the massive population
that's just what I think
lethal comet
even mjolnir cannot keep up against a swarm.
clone armor doesn't even have energy shielding
versed helm
yup
agile dragon
And its not like they'd be able to shoot the flood to stop them
They'd need to be able to hit them first
humble yacht
Clones had good aim. Stormtroopers were the ones with traditionally bad aim
terse lava
Fun fact on that cloning idea, it got better as time went on. Kamino took a decade, a moon around Coruscant was able to create them in a year in the final year of the clone war. They made billions to replenish the GAR. The clones wereLess effective but still. Decades later, Thrawn was able to crank out fill grown clones in 2 weeks, with only some going crazy
fair hazel
Um thrawn disappeared with Ezra.
carmine sleet
I think Ado is going off of legends, not certain though
fair hazel
Not canon. Also wasn’t the emergency approval episode thing in clone wars millions. Not billions of troopers
Anyways yeah no their Armour isn’t a significant advantage against the flood.
It can be pierced by spears. Flood tendrils will have no problem
humble yacht
A pod infector was able to breach Chief’s armor. Clone armor would be simpler to breach
fair hazel
Clone are unethical too.
humble yacht
You mean their production?
fair hazel
Except for w few areas though. Star Wars tech isn’t completely significantly better too.
versed helm
The Galactic Republic would probably win regardless due to the sheer scale of its army. Unless the UNSC target Kamino.
terse lava
I was going off legends why wouldn't i
humble yacht
Generally when you compare two universes, you compare what’s considered canon in each universe
terse lava
shrug grew up with it alongside halo
versed helm
But that's not relevant anymore.
Like it isn't even in the universe so it is misinformation.
terse lava
Eh, there are some stuff I prefer from legends over canon not just out of nostalgia, but for details
How certain vehilces/weapons work for example
versed helm
Yeah but it isn't true though is it? Preference or not.
terse lava
My point is for example, the old cross section books showed how stuff worked. But the literal sense none of that can apparently be used now
versed helm
Well, let's just say they haven't been making the brightest decisions in that universe.
carmine sleet
Legends is filled with some really bad stuff from what I've heard
terse lava
Of course, that happens with decades of lore
I am talking though of just the proper details. I can live with most being non-canon(outside of clones.being phased out so quick) but the cross sections a d lore like that was good
fair hazel
Some text inside one of them didn’t make a lot of sense.
Republic and empire have large armies, empire more, but they’re more quantity than quality in this case.
terse lava
Indeed
versed helm
I doubt that Marine armour can protect the user against blaster fire but I think the same can be said for Clone armour.
terse lava
On the original topic though, the flood would definitely consume the galaxy with ease in either lore
Clone armor was built to minimize the damage plasma did
fair hazel
I think better than it protects from plasma weapons.
humble yacht
Halo universe at least has an effective last resort
fair hazel
Blaster bolts aren’t as powerful as plasma.
humble yacht
Star Wars universe couldn’t really deal after a certain point
versed helm
Yeah but it's kind of designed to destroy any universe really. Also, I meant that Clone armour would be terrible at sustaining damage from bullets.
fair hazel
And some of the UNSC armour can take a hit or two sometimes from plasma.
terse lava
Why would it be bad against bullets
fair hazel
So theyd probably fair better.
terse lava
As far as I know, clone armor is immune to bullets
fair hazel
Clone Armour is definitely not immune.
terse lava
But also as far as I know, that could have been rolled over to legends so eh
fair hazel
Spears pierce though clones.
Considering the vast amount of AP ammo the unsc uses too..
carmine sleet
We see Stormtroopers, who are in the theoretically more advanced armour than Clones get destroyed by Ewoks, I highly doubt Clone armour is gonna be bulletproof
terse lava
"vast"they will run out of bullets before the republix/empire running of men
versed helm
Yeah that's why I mentioned the scale of the army.
Only massive weakness would be Kamino.
versed helm
Well if they destroyed the cloning facilities then they wouldn't be able to produce more Clones.
Simple.
fair hazel
1.2 million clones (with millions more on the way)
terse lava
Since when? Last I checked Kamino is out barely outside the galaxy
carmine sleet
Be better to capture Kamino and use Clone DNA to make a virus to kill the Clones
fair hazel
And an additional 5 million clones that were the subject of politics but eventually passed.
versed helm
Or a tumour that would cause them to betray the leaders.
terse lava
Yes because a few million clones is enough to fight an intergalactic civil war and get said war named after them
Those numbers are useless since we will never get a confirmed number on the GAR
versed helm
Still I'd say the Republic would win because of its size unless the UNSC find a way to manipulate or end cloning.
fair hazel
Oh Reach there were 385 million military personnel
terse lava
And?
terse lava
True
fair hazel
Numbers we have to work with. Additional 5 million clones seemed to be a lot. An emergency fund that, I forgot what exactly happened, done wrong would have bankrupted the republic for 5 million clones.
versed helm
How interesting.
fair hazel
Anyways. It’s mostly in space that the baffles matter, ground, depends on the objective
versed helm
I'd say that the Clones have a similar skill set to the ODSTs.
humble yacht
I’d say an arc trooper would be at the odst level
And arc troopers were few and far between
opal birch
The production of Clones would've bankrupted the Republic because the Banking Clan had applied some ridiculously high interest rates
simple locust
So what are those plant like structures we saw on the level 343 guilty spark and on High Charity in Halo 2? Was that how the elites who went into the structure got infected?
terse lava
We see them.on High Chairty too. Just alien plants
versed helm
And arc troopers were few and far between
Just because they were rare, does not make them the equivalent of ODSTs.
fair hazel
Just plants
simple locust
Wasn't the Flood originally going to be a plant fungus but later changed to not be?
Specifically for Halo CE and Halo 2 then changed in Halo 3.
humble yacht
ODSTs were the best of the best when it came to UNSC infantry. Same can be said of arc troopers for GRA
terse lava
Eh bungie jumped from idea to idea with.them from spore to covenant bioweapon
simple locust
Were the plants we see originally intended to have cause the elites with torn out chests to become infected?
versed helm
Yeah but you could argue that one is better than the other, the Clones themselves are perfect replications of the bounty hunter Jango Fett. An emotionally resilient, collected and athletic soldier, the Marines are too inconsistent to be compared to the Clones so that's why I said the ODSTs, Chimera.
humble yacht
Spartans were more like artillery than infantry
fair hazel
Where did you even get that idea arrow?
humble yacht
I think you give too little credit to the UNSC marine
terse lava
They are just plants Arrow, they couldn't infect the sangheili as they were inside thr building
opal birch
Yeah but most Clones were regular infantry
versed helm
I think you give too little credit to the UNSC marine
They're too inconsistent biologically speaking.
fair hazel
We’ve. Seen the performance of clones multiple times. More then multiple.
terse lava
I can see where he got it. When i was younger thought they were infected plants
fair hazel
Also emotionally resilient, collected.. that’s not all genetics you know?
versed helm
I'm aware but they were sure as Hell bred to be, Eric.
simple locust
@fair hazel Late Night gaming referenced the flood originally being intended to be a plant fungus before Halo 3. The plants look very similar to the flood as they both have a similar color and glow, as well as always appearing only with the flood in Halo CE and 2.
versed helm
Yeah don't tag mods for this situation.
terse lava
Incorrect Arrow, they appeared in High Charity before flood arrival
Well Eric did ask where he got the idea
humble yacht
The flood is largely inspired by the parasitic fungus cordiceps
terse lava
Would throw in the Thing too
simple locust
I assumed they were gathering or building up before the combat forms showed up.
humble yacht
The thing’s most terrifying nature was it’s mimicry, and the flood don’t try to mimic their victims
Can’t say I see that connection
feral perch
The Flood is largely inspired by Christopher Rowley’s The Vang, Chimera
you can find that on Halopedia
terse lava
Man I forgot about the Vang
fair hazel
I’m not sure that information from LNG is correct
simple locust
The Thing seems less viable for replicating or at least slower than say the flood. Also it seems the current iteration does seem similar to it as the infection is passed from dogs to people like how it was passed from Pheru to humans and San'Shyuum.
fair hazel
The clones might have been “bred” for combat, but I don’t think that says as much.
Watching clips of clones running into an enemy army in relatively open field..
terse lava
They are ordered too often
versed helm
Yeah but they didn't exactly portray the Clones very well, at least to me.
terse lava
They have crappy leaders
versed helm
Plus the Jedi do not know how to lead. You have an elite unit for covert operations (Commandos) and what do you do? Send them into the middle of a dust bowl on Geonosis. Nice...
versed helm
Yeah I can agree with you on that.
fair hazel
Well, that’s their performance overall. Although even without Jedi leading them they do that
terse lava
They are ordered too
versed helm
Yeah I know which situations you were talking about but I think that is the fault of the animator.
slim thorn
Clones... If Zealots can get a hand of the artifact related to it.... Maybe they can produce a lot of Elites
versed helm
I don't think that Clone who charged Krell was ordered to. 🗿
fair hazel
They are ordered to by other clones.
terse lava
They don't just jump out of LAATs or charge across an open field.on their own. It is either planned ahead or ordered at that moment
simple locust
How did the dead elites in the level 343 guilty spark get infected? The ones with their chests torn out.
fair hazel
By the flood
versed helm
Burrowing into the chest and entering the nervous system.
near tide
Though the jedi would be dangerous for the halo guys
simple locust
How did they release it?
terse lava
By accident
fair hazel
Fault of the animator? It’s what it is. It’s the evidence, like, it is ... that.
simple locust
How?
fair hazel
I think people overate the Jedi
versed helm
Oh yeah, they do.
fair hazel
They opened the containment arrow
near tide
A padawan could hold up a venator star destroyer with the force
So people like vader could wreak havok on fleets
terse lava
Vader had shown no feats to do that
simple locust
Was it with infection forms or spores? Was it from the area with glass? If so how did they break it?
terse lava
Infection forms, and they bust down the containment doors once the Covenant and humans entered
terse lava
In fact only one I recall doing that was Starkiller and well....yea
fair hazel
The covenant released the flood, somewhere off screen.
Starkiller isn’t canon
Anywyas
terse lava
Thus why i said that
versed helm
Imagine Vader being infected by the Flood. 💀
slim thorn
vader won't get infected
He will be most likely taken to Proto-Gravemind considering his value
humble yacht
That’s still infected
versed helm
slim thorn
near tide
If the flood even get him
fair hazel
Watching order 66 scenes recently though.. gives me confidence for halo forces
slim thorn
Then the Empire is toast
near tide
The jedi were suprised
simple locust
So would the flood they flood not have been in some form of stasis or fluid tanks?
slim thorn
Chief almost died to 1 brute and 1 Sangheili
terse lava
They were in stasis, they were woken up when those shut off
near tide
?
simple locust
Wait why did they shut it off.
terse lava
Tinkering on part.of thr Covenant
versed helm
If the Flood acquired knowledge of the Force, it would be the end of the galaxy.
terse lava
You imply the flood could even use it
versed helm
Yeah, they could establish which beings were sensitive.
near tide
i doubt flood could use it
humble yacht
Not sure midochlorians would be compatible with flood
simple locust
What are those two robot empires in star wars from the galaxy of the yusang vong fighting the flood. Could they resist the logic plaque?
versed helm
You never know, the Flood managed to corrupt the machines designed to not be corrupted by them.
simple locust
Could they only infect monitors and armigers?
near tide
ai too i think
versed helm
Flood can evolve more and more over time, infecting a Jedi and keeping his mind intact could allow them to evolve and be able to wield the Force.
near tide
Star wars could stand a decent chance
versed helm
I don't they could against the Flood.
simple locust
So can the gravemind chew up living beings?
slim thorn
he can chew living beings
fair hazel
Those aren’t canon.
I feel like the flood would inherit the midichlorians in that case.
humble yacht
Wouldn’t it just convert the midochloarians into FSC
fair hazel
They could chose not to
I was watching some order 66. Mass fire does the trick Jedi can ne overwhelmed for sure. And the thing is, weapons like the MA5, have high rate of fire and high muzzle velocity. That’s like great to overwhelm Jedi.
versed helm
Oh God, I just imagined a universe where the Flood manipulate neural physics with the Force. You could corrupt and steal minds without even coming into contact.
humble yacht
Like, if a rancor eats a Jedi, the rancor can’t use the force
So i don’t see the flood being able to use the force by eating Jedi, personally
fair hazel
The rancor doesn’t take control of the Jedi though..
versed helm
Yeah but that's not really relevant to the Flood now, is it?
fair hazel
Eating...
humble yacht
That’s what the flood call it
versed helm
Oh God, I just imagined a universe where the Flood manipulate neural physics with the Force. You could corrupt and steal minds without even coming into contact.
Imagine this though.
fair hazel
They don’t eat people in the actual sense.
The UNSC has. A lot of anti Jedi weaponry honestly.
versed helm
MAC Cannon.
humble yacht
Neural physics is already like the force
fair hazel
As usual, they have The Answer to the problem.
humble yacht
Spnkr would be easy for Jedi to counter
fair hazel
Not reallly chimera. It isn’t this super power used by beings like the force is
Jedi don’t always deflect rockets. But its not the worst thing to use.
humble yacht
A rocket would be easier to focus on using the force than a bullet
versed helm
Well in-game, rockets travel at 90mph and I'm pretty sure it's faster in canon.
So it depends on how adept the user is with the Force.
fair hazel
The answer, blaze of glory,
Going top line maybe but that’s what’s available too. Of course even regular saw or shotgun would be great.
Whiplash... it’s an air burst weapon too so direct hit not necessary
versed helm
Well as I said earlier, it depends on how attuned with the Force they are, they all have different training so it depends on what they specialise in.
humble yacht
Whiplash rof is slow though, and when you take into account the precognitive abilities that many Jedi have, I don’t see it being particularly useful. It’s not like Jedi try to parry everything with lightsabers
versed helm
Some of them parry logic.
fair hazel
A near miss is still a kill
versed helm
Unless they have been trained to stop blast damage.
fair hazel
Unless they’re on speed, as long as reticle aligns, it’s over.
versed helm
That one guy did from Rebels before dying.
near tide
Jedi would go down though they would take some unsc with them
Plus force sensitive clones exist
fair hazel
Kanan kinda had time to notice everything and the explosion wasn’t this instantaneous thing.
Only force sensitive clones are Palpatine/snoke
terse lava
Not canon anymore Infinity
versed helm
RIP.
versed helm
It wouldn't make sense either.
terse lava
Yea autocorrect loves me
near tide
They emped a fleet
versed helm
Nice grammar.
terse lava
Dont think there's proof palps had clones yet
fair hazel
Imagine the chaos caused by one covenant ship performing a Let Volir move. Ooo
humble yacht
Dont think there's proof palps had clones yet
Think the writers said this in an interview about the film
humble yacht
I don’t remember the movie specifying clone
There were some snokes in jars but Palpy himself wasn’t obviously a clone
versed helm
No I believe the clone explanation was explained in a comic.
fair hazel
If I remember correctly they talked about how they didn’t include them saying clone in the movie because the movie shows the cats and the guy talking about cloning tech. So that they didn’t feel the need to include that scene
Not everything needs to be spelled out ..
opal birch
I believe the novelization of the film confirms that it's a clone of Palpatine
terse lava
Yea in that palpatine's body was a clone, but that was 50 some years after the clone wars
fair hazel
Let ‘Volir move. Extremely short slipspace jump in atmosphere to cause massive EMP
near tide
That would emp friendlies too
fair hazel
This right here.
near tide
Isn't let that banished shipmaster?
versed helm
Jesus...
near tide
Or is he from Jul'Mdama's covenant?
versed helm
I think that was also technically done on New Mombasa.
near tide
that wrecked the city even further
humble yacht
That wasn’t a short range jump
versed helm
Not a short jump, mind you.
terse lava
Let 'Volir was the shipmaster from hw2 yes
versed helm
A merc.
terse lava
Yes
fair hazel
That whole thing was pretty awesome
Atriox gets captured on purpose. Gets brought on board, turns let ‘Volir to his side, then moves out of formation and performs this awesome move
versed helm
Yeah but reading it makes me think it seemed really obvious.
near tide
In theory could the First order track people through slipspace?
fair hazel
No
terse lava
No
versed helm
First Order are so incompetent.
humble yacht
Hyperspace != slipspace
fair hazel
Hyperspace tracking uses basically calculations based on hyperpace data to determine where they’ll hyperspace to
versed helm
slipspace is a whole new dimension of travel
carmine sleet
And the Xyston star destroyers
Sith Eternal created those Star Destroyers, not the First Order
near tide
well first order affiliated
slim thorn
And the Covenant moves faster than The Empire
Like how PoA arrived two weeks after Covenant arrives on Installation 04
last anchor
Slipspace is weird tbh.
Also we dont...know how hyperspace works anymore because the books say it takes time but then the movies show it happening almost instantly...
Yet Solo shows it requires skill and movement and dodging stuff in realspace
Because last time I checked it should take about 4 or five days to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other using even the most well traveled hyperlane like the Hydian Way, yet Finn and Rose go from the rear end of nowhere to the Corproate Sectore WAYYYY up in the northeast of the galaxy and back to the rear end of nowhere in less than a day
PLUS all the funtimes on Canto Bight
That being said, slipspace has the additional bonus of causing massive material deplacement when you enter/exit it in atmo, see; Regret evacuating New Mombasa and literally BLASTING half of it
Where as far as we can tell you can jump in atmo in Star Wars with no real issues...apperently.
humble yacht
As long as your path is clear
versed helm
yeah. slipspace is a weapon if you know how to use it
last anchor
Glances over at Jorge over Reach.
Oh, you bet it is. YOU BET
Also Im pretty sure an Interdictor doesnt effect a slip-jump because there's no mass shadows in slipspace.
Although now we see people jumping in gravity wells anyway so...I guess interdictors are just pointless now?
And its not even clear Chimera, we see the Falcon hyper-space skip across a bunch of rrandom stuff THROUGH AN ICE ASTEROID at the start...
so I guess realspace conditions dont apply? But...maybe thats just the Falcon. Since that things about as close to the Ace of Spades as Star Wars will ever get.
...or would the Ace of Spades be as close to th e Falcon as Halo will ever get? Im not really sure at this point.
versed helm
well, they do go at lightspeed
last anchor
Technically both FTL systems avoid the limits of lightspeed by going somewhere that it isnt the restriction
Hyperspace seems a lot smoother and refined than slipspace.
versed helm
So, are there any Elites other than Thel who like to interact with humans?
gilded mason
Yeah
versed helm
Who? I'm surprised.
last anchor
Uzhe and his bro, the two player elites from H3s four player campaign
gilded mason
N’tho, Uzse, Ayit
last anchor
Yeah
gilded mason
Off the top of my head
versed helm
They like to? When reading Hunters in The Dark they just seemed to just want to complete their objective.
fair hazel
The people in paxopolis
gilded mason
All the SoS elites in Legacy of Onyx are also fine with humans
last anchor
I mean they do live with them so.
versed helm
Maybe I should read that.
last anchor
Yes. Yes you should
gilded mason
Legacy of Onyx takes place in Onyx
gilded mason
I dunno
last anchor
Thats Envoy
versed helm
There are multiple ones but they've had wars in the past.
gilded mason
And I imagine there’s a huge amount we simply haven’t personally seen as well, considering the human sympathy movement
last anchor
I mean Vale made a lot of friends from the sound of it, enough that they augmented her
You dont just...get to be an S-IV, you gotta prove your value to people.
fair hazel
Legac#y of only is one of my two favourite books
versed helm
Okay.
fair hazel
With silentium
humble yacht
Rip Henry
versed helm
On the Mona Lisa?
humble yacht
Yeah
versed helm
That's covered in Silentium? But this was also covered in Evolutions.
humble yacht
No, I’m not talking about silentium
versed helm
Oh you had me confused for a second.
last anchor
There's two Henry's that we know of in Halo and they're both dead
versed helm
Gone but not forgotten.
fair hazel
Um Henry glass man is fine.
gilded mason
Should Glassman be fine, though?
fair hazel
Better than Halsey. Ohhhhhh
gilded mason
Does he really deserve it?
fair hazel
You know? Halsey isn’t the woman she used to be. It’s like a part of her is missing.
Maybe she needs a hand.
versed helm
OOF.
last anchor
Actually Glassmans not exactly fine siinnnnceeee we havent heard from him since Escalation ended XD
He's in limbo
So, three Henry's. Two're dead ones in limbo
versed helm
humble yacht
Halsey be like: “why are we still here? Just to suffer?”
versed helm
Roasted.
humble yacht
“The body I’ve lost.... the Spartans I’ve lost.... keep on hurting.”
terse sigil
Never
simple locust
So is the creature from Pathways Into Darkness the inspiration for the Precursors?
clever fable
There isn't a singular inspiration for them from what I gathered. They were briefly mentioned before the Forerunner trilogy, but besides that time, Greg Bear included maybe three different novels as inspiration for just their use of neural physics alone.
I don't remember what they were off the top of my head.
versed helm
the precursors also seem to have a pretty lovecraftian theme, though
terse lava
They remind of the Xeelee to an extent
Least to a lesser extent, they arent as grand or as powerful as the Xeelee are
tender ginkgo
Lovecraft was a heavy inspiration for the Precursors
rugged needle
Wait what
versed helm
yeah
versed helm
what are the Xeelee?
also, i really think people who are active here should get a lore keeper tag, or something like that
versed helm
What even is Lovecraft, I keep hearing about it but never read the books.
DUDE
GO READ
GO
READ
versed helm
What are they even about though?
h p lovecraft is one of the coolest authors ever
he's written some of the greatest psychological horrors of all time
the concept of the flood is lovecraftian in the sense that it has that same effect
im pretty sure the idea of the flood was taken from his writings
he created the legend of cthulhu
Oh, how interesting. Thank you for sharing.
yep
yer welcome
always fun to tell people about the mythos
versed helm
What other races did the Forerunners fight besides the Flood,Precursors,Ancient Humanity,and Ancient San'shyuum?
clever fable
Themselves
lean rover
soo why do the covenant want humans dead exactly?
in the timeline of reach, let's say
lean rover
i haven't. just read fall of reach. didn't get a clear picture of full intentions, but wasn't sure if i just missed it
does Contact Harvest go deeper into that?
agile dragon
Ok, the book came later and documents the first encounter between humanity and the covenant afaik
If you enjoy reading, I don't want to spoil stuff by directly answering your question XD
Otherwise if you're unlikely to read it, I can reply right now
lean rover
hahah
i appreciate that. hmm
i'll take a response. no need to be too thorough though lol
lean rover
awesome, thanks dude
terse lava
Could be reading it or just busy with life
dusky frigate
Honestly
the Mantle's approach could take on the entire star wars galactic fleet no prob
terse lava
Quite likely
last anchor
Isnt it like, three times the size of both death stars.
340 klicks top to bottom with a fully modular internal structure?
humble yacht
i know aerodynamics don't matter in space, but something about the Mantle's Approach orientation always nagged me
terse lava
The fact that its tall rather then long?
humble yacht
Yep
humble yacht
I imagine it flying into an asteroid field and it’s too big to dodge anything, so it just gets pelted
terse lava
Well in that case the asteroids would just be shattered to bits
Or just taken out via auto defenses
humble yacht
I know but it’s the mental image
terse lava
Yea
violet notch
Diadact's ship in Halo 4.
humble yacht
That’s the one
fair hazel
i like having different 'orientations'
also... flying an an asteroid field?
the chances of hitting an asteroid are very low
and even if it did run into one it's like... okay pebble hehe
humble yacht
Sci fi asteroid fields tend to be chock full of space rocks
It may not be realistic but it’s more exciting
terse lava
Least here you can excuse it as arrival via forerunner or covenant doing
fair hazel
not all. im not sure that the description in the fall of reach has the less realistic one
dusky frigate
Idk about y’all
But if the forerunners achieved what they did
WhAt massive structures did the precursors make?
Or what if the forerunners just claimed the precursor structures were theirs after they killed them
Cause I mean Onxy Is so advanced
humble yacht
Precursor structures were destroyed by the halos
Precursors made things like star roads, which existed outside normal 3D space
dusky frigate
But in no way could that have been the height of their achievements
versed helm
the forruner vs flood is delayed because of cod 19
humble yacht
Star roads were pretty advanced
versed helm
how advanced
humble yacht
Well worth being a crowning achievement
Well they only existed when the precursors wanted them to
versed helm
how do star roads work?
humble yacht
And they could rip planets apart
terse lava
Star roads were capable of linking entire star systems together like beads on a string. They could be used for moving planets or stars. They physical object that the forerunners saw were not the true star road, just a shadow of the real thing which weaved through multiple dimensions
versed helm
just like jump points form STAR CI
terse lava
As for the other question, we know they had star roads, fortresses, citadels, and double bow star road formations and constructs
versed helm
whats the point of a composer
to do brain upload
they can just use a very powerful pc
gilded mason
To seamlessly transfer the mind from an organic form to a digital one
(And to bring it back to an organic form once more, but they failed at that part.)
gilded mason
Why
- To live forever
How
- Neural physics
humble yacht
Maybe the domain would be their crowning achievement
versed helm
that got to be painful
gilded mason
Seems like it
versed helm
1 to OH MY GOD PLZ STOP AHHHHHHHH
terse lava
Hm?
gilded mason
He's talking about the pain of being composed
versed helm
and why is it so big
terse lava
Just how they made it
last anchor
It is a weapon after all
dreamy plaza
Hey guys! I'm just curious, after the events of Halo 3, what was the first thing that Aliens and humanity began to work together on?
Because it's a bit sad that we haven't seen any new Armory companies of the sort
humble yacht
The first thing they worked on? Maybe clearing I05 of flood, maybe diplomatic dealings between humans and elites
Elites helped UNSC build Helioskrill armor as well as Needle Warthogs
dreamy plaza
Oh right! I remember now, yeah that's understandable. Especially what happened back in Africa
I only said that because I drew up some concept for a hybrid Halo gun
humble yacht
Halo 5 features some human guns with covenant sights
dreamy plaza
Indeed but we never actually see a gun itself being a hybrid of both human and covenant. Then again, I guess that could be something of a good thing
Though what would you like to see if you ever decided to make a Mish mash of a gun?
terse lava
Not sure, quite content with the plasma rifle and carbine
dreamy plaza
True, I could make a sort of revolver or a mini-shotgun
Maybe an Judge Executioner or a Serbu Shorty?
lean rover
@agile dragon yes it was helpful!!! thanks!!
agile dragon
awesome
fair hazel
Things don’t magically become buddy buddy after war ends
It’s not like they were. Yay we’re friends! Let’s make companies together now
gilded mason
That's nice.
fair hazel
Rizzy, so collaboration was slower and more, with those that had positive views
versed helm
kilo five is proof of that
terse lava
Until ONI messed that up
stoic hamlet
Arguably ONI only helped accelerate the flaring tempers,, not cause them.
gilded mason
Though the flames also might've eventually died down without the additional oxygen.
fair hazel
ONI as an asset against Star Wars factions.. oh yeah..
versed helm
ONI: messing stuff up since ||lol idik||
carmine sleet
An intelligence organisation is always going to be useful
versed helm
would ONI be republican, or empiric?
stoic hamlet
They’d likely be either far less, or far more effective depending on the adversary.
I’d argue overall they’d see far less success though in Star Wars.
past olive
if it's the clone wars era I think they'd side with the Republic, if it's Imperial era they'd probably side with the Imperials and if it's New Republic era idk what they'd do cause I don't think they'd be too keen on siding with the First Order since they're a bit too on the facist side
versed helm
i think ONI would do what its always done: pull strings in the background
versed helm
Was Earth really the last colony in H2 and 3?
versed helm
Doubt it
carmine sleet
Earth was not the last human world
versed helm
You have Forseti,which has like 500 million people
versed helm
also earth isn't a colony, it was the home world
versed helm
So how much of Earth's biota did the Lifeworkers save during the Conservation Measure?
humble yacht
What?
violet notch
Sorry about bringing back up an old topic. But I made one post, and then life happened and I wasn't able to finish my thoughts.
Chimera30, and Ado 'Ulamee, you guys were talking about the orientation of the Diadact's ship. First of all, I typoed my message. It was supposed to be a question, not a statement, so sorry if I caused any confusion. You guys were using its name, and I didn't know its name, so I was verifying.
But what I was going to say was, that kind of stuff never bothered me, in fact just the opposite. I always found it kind of cool when Sci-Fi would introduce a superior space faring race, and their ships don't look like they follow the same design patterns that we're used to seeing. Because in space all directions are relative, all orientations are relative. So there's really no true need to follow any sort of pattern or shapes when designing a space vessel.
The reason I'm used to seeing it is probably because of the Borg from Star Trek. Not only do they break the convention of ships with specific design and orientation we're used to. But they're simple isometric shapes. Because, as I said, there's no need for anything else, because in space, all things are relative anyway.
humble yacht
Borg ships don’t look weird to me because they’re not taller than they are long
It’s a completely internal feeling about ships that makes extremely non aerodynamic designs look weird. I understand that aerodynamics don’t matter in space, it just looks weird to me
versed helm
I get what you mean, but also in space design a typical plane-like design makes sense for smaller craft as it allows a large footprint for the mounting of engines, weapons and cargo, while also introducing a small front on footprint towards enemy targets.
With larger ships is makes sense for the UNSC designs as it introduces plenty of space for smaller defensive craft (A invaluable asset) and also a small front-on footprint and plenty of space for weaponry
terse lava
I would say that yes in space it doesnt truly.matter how you build.something, the linear look for ships is still tevelant as the ships can enter into an atmosphere.and travel around
versed helm
the shape is irrelevant in a medium thats doesn't offer any resistance
Not true in a combat sense if you have a flat disc ship it is going to be a lot easier to hit straight on then other shapes.
Also Ado 'Ulamee specifically mentioned in atmosphere
solar bear
so kinda like Boba Fett's ship...
versed helm
atmosphere-wsie, i think the shape of the ship would matter only in deciding what surface area experiences drag
Although shape in-atmosphere depends on thrust type and purpose
like, even with a flat disc, it would still get lesser drag if it enters with the edge facing the planet
With my flat disc analogy, I was in reference to combat
ohhhh
kekeke
violet notch
See you're still missing the point that, in space, all orientations are relative. You assume that, in combat, things are going to line up the way you want, and always facing your side with the smallest profile is going to just happen. And while yes, if you have decent maneuverability, you can make the effort to keep your best angle at the enemy, but in the chaos of a battle that's a lot easier said than done. Especially if you're facing multiple enemies that could attack you from multiple angles.
Instead of designing you ship with defense in mind by making one side as small a target as possible, which is an effort in futility for the most part. It would be better to take advantage of the 3D nature of space combat, and ensure that as much of your surface as possible can cover the largest firing range as possible. Which is why the Borg ships of Star Trek work so well. All possible angles have cover, because of the symmetry of their ships. And they can mount weaponry on a greater surface area for it.
solar bear
so, much closer to the death star
and once again, bristling with weaponry on all sides
only problem is atmospheric entry
slim thorn
And Star Wars doesn't have Combat Pods drop.
humble yacht
I think it’s less about missing the point and more about personal taste
terse lava
Yea, no one is going to like a giant cube floating about. That only works with the Borg because they are mindless cyborgs
last anchor
They like their straight edges, they do
That being said even the Expanse still has long cross sections for its ships and its ships are the most logically shaped ones for 3D combat
Wait we talking about Mantles approach?
Hehehe. ONI in Star Wars.
"Ah but you see, Lord Sidius", Blackbox spoke from Palpatine's holoprojector, voice smug as always. "You were under the belief that you were pulling the strings, when in fact, we were pulling you pulling the strings. And the strings were pulling back. So yes, please, execute Order 66, we'd prefer if you were to ride our future lands of these annoying Jedi before we sweep in and take it. Just do it fast, there's an eight Spartan-II fireteam coming up the elevator to..."deal with the situation", and I would hate to keep them waiting."
violet notch
I only used the phrase "missing the point" because I was addressing the relativity of being in space, and the counter argument was on the surface profile.
Those aren't mutually exclusive points though, so I felt my point wasn't addressed.
For example, you can still take advantage of small profiles and greater surface area coverage with cylindrical designs. Like what most ships do use. There's a shot in one of Halo CE:A's terminals that shows the Pillar of Autumn, spinning on its longer axis, and firing weapons all across it's hull. Which is a perfect example of trying to take advantage of 3D space firing coverage, while still having one side of the ship with a small profile.
However, the Mantle's Approach still has one side with a smaller profile. It's "top" and "bottom". The only thing that makes it look weird is that the side considered its "front" is the longer side. Even though that's really all just perspective and relativity. The ship has most of its weaponry mounted on that surface, and it faces that surface at its target for maximum firepower coverage.
So again, it's all relative, so it's better logically speaking to include space faring races in your Sci-Fi that don't always conform to the same patterns, as we're no longer dealing with 2D style combat anymore.
And if that makes the ship look "weird", then that's fine. But I think that including things like that brings a sense of immersion to the universe. And I actually like the idea.
last anchor
To be fair Mantle's Approach is entirely hardlight and is fully modular.
The Didact can orient its position and even overall shape however he sees fit
terse lava
True
last anchor
The form we see it in is his "Im gonna Compose your face!" form.
Because the Composor quite obviously needs a linear path to operate as far as we can tell
violet notch
On the other hand, ships that are designed for the "cool" factor, and don't really conform to any logical reasoning for its shape, like the Federation ships from Star Trek, with all their extended parts and irregular contours, while they may look really good and subjectively feel right, they don't actually provide the best silhouette in combat. Granted, it's well established that those ships are more Science vessels than Combat vessels, but they often find themselves in hostile situations where they need to defend themselves.
humble yacht
I thought it was smart matter
last anchor
Its both, I think.
versed helm
isnt the didact's ship composed of hard light?
gilded mason
That and mostly smartmatter
terse lava
Yep
humble yacht
Programmable matter with hardlight bonds
gilded mason
Yes.
humble yacht
Van der Waals, eat your heart out
terse lava
Speaking of the forerunners, I find it curious they, according to the didact, pray to the Mantle. It's a mandate, not a being
humble yacht
Does seem weird. What fiction said that
violet notch
Foreign alien colloquialism that was translated into its closest English equivalent.
It's probably not 100% literal.
terse lava
Came from Silentium Chimera
I am not buying that excuse as that would just be lazy writing
It seems weird though that they wouldn't pray to their creators
terse lava
But modern forerunners were not aware of that
violet notch
Sometimes lazy writers are just lazy though. With as much content as Halo has, it's bound to have a few things that are less than polished like that.
humble yacht
It actually said “pray to”?
fair hazel
I wouldn’t call Greg bear a lazy writer. In fact a lot of times calling things lazy is... eyerolling
terse lava
@humble yacht "Humans would have prayed to this. Everywhere they found powers and forces, in oceans, in trees, in animals-even in rocks. Forerunners pray their sorts of prayers only to the Mantle"- Didact, Silentium Chapter 26
humble yacht
Oh, “their sorts of prayers”
That sounds like he could be speaking metaphorically
Or at least not “pray” in the sense that humans do
terse lava
Perhaps, he was squated before a precursor relic at the time, clasping and unclasping his hands over and over at the time
humble yacht
Another reason for me to not like Greg bear, I guess
violet notch
Then I was right and it wasn't 100% literal?
terse lava
Heh, I enjoyed the books, 2nd only to Broken Circle. Although I am disappointed they didnt expand more on the ancient humans
humble yacht
I’d like to think it’s not literal
Tbh it sounds silly for a forerunner to be like “praise the mantle, please let me get that job tomorrow”
terse lava
That made me laugh more then it should have
last anchor
Also this is "Crazy Didact" which probably doesnt help
terse lava
True
fair hazel
greg bear is fantastic
humble yacht
Statistically speaking, someone has to think so
terse lava
.....I know you didnt like the whole "forerunner/=humans" and the "precursor flood" but sheesh
simple locust
So how did the combat, defenses,tactics, and weapons vary between the Forerunners and Humans/San'Shyuum? Did the Humans and San'Shyuum use ancillas to control their armor suits after the individual died like the Forerunner armors?
terse lava
We know humans had AI they called Servitors, and along with the san shyuum were capable of crafting weapons forerunners were helpless against. As for personal armor we know nothing really aside from the fact a beam from a forerunner rifle can one hit it
carmine sleet
As soon as you said "Servitors", I just had a flashback to Sepiks Prime from Destiny
terse lava
I think 40k
simple locust
Is it stated how much damage the weapons did?
terse lava
We see a human warship 1 shot an unshielded flood infected human vessel. But that's about it visually
simple locust
Were any forerunners alive on the planets they glassed?
humble yacht
Ancient humanity are Fallen confirmed
terse lava
Of course forerunners were alive on the planters humans glassed. Thus why the forerunners went to war with them
simple locust
What percentage of them were infected? Was there a reason they did not tell the Forerunners?
simple locust
Did the humans go to war before the flood?
Did the Minister of Etiology have no weapons?
terse lava
Humanity went to war with the forerunners due to the flood, and no the minister did not
simple locust
OK is it known why he had no weapons or did any of the crew have weapons? It seems like many prophets have no weapons in case of a betrayal by the elites. Also I meant were there any known wars involving humans?
gusty star
According to Forthencho, they didn't warn them because it would give the Flood time to spread.
terse lava
The minister had no need for weapons
simple locust
So did the Prophet killed in Halo: Silent Storm have any weapons?
terse lava
Doubt it
While san shyuum can have weapons within their chair's that appears to be only for high ranking ones
Hierarchs, high council members, high lords.
gusty star
There was the Prophet from The Return that had a personal plasma pistol
fair hazel
honestly now that i think of it
guilty spark/chakas is one of my favourite halo cahracters
main rivet
While it's a bit convoluted (and I think different creators had different ideas) I don't think 100% (or 99%) of the Prophets were actually in on the conspiracy.
I'm sure for some of them the sudden turnabout was news to them as well.
Practically, there's basically no way you're keeping any of that a secret if everyone knows.
obsidian thistle
Shadow of Intent implies a lot of the San'Shyuum were innocent.
Broken Circle also shows some seemingly not in the loop
terse lava
Yea at best, a large chunk of the san shyuum high council, and the prelates, supported the idea of replacing the sangheili with jiralhanae
main rivet
Yeah. It obviously was something that had to go further than the Hierarchs for the prelates and the general commissioning of the Brutes. But no way you would make that obvious to everyone.
So I feel bad for those random minor Minister of Whatever that probably got summarily executed by the crews of the ships they were on when it went down.
terse lava
If a san shyuum had made it that far up the chain they were likly in the loop
main rivet
Eh, I don't think we know enough about the Covenant's bureacracy to make that determination.
potent ether
Where was it mentioned, I think Halo: The Fall of Reach, about Halsey knowing who each Spartan was despite them all wearing the same MJOLNIR armor
terse lava
Hm perhaps, they likely either informed the sangheili they had.nothingnto do with it, or they saw the whole thing as Truth sold it as. A mass sangheili revolt against the Covenant and thus heretics.
stoic hamlet
I wanna say either First Strike or Fall of Reach, But I can’t recall where specifically. @potent ether
I know she had to think a bit when she saw Kurt in SPI.
near tide
^
main rivet
Def not Fall of Reach since I reread that recently so I'm gonna guess FS.
Either way that's been retconned away, so 😛
carmine sleet
Either way that's been retconned away, so 😛
What's been retconned? First Strike? That's still canon
stoic hamlet
the idea that Spartans wore the same armour D:
last anchor
Technically they do, the understuits more or less formfitting and identical.
Remember, MJLONIR is not a set arrangement of armor pieces that constitute one singular suit; each suit is assembled piece by piece with the components entirely modular as the arming points are identical and UNSC standard.
The first time we see the armor be anything other than how Nyulnd wrote it was in the comics and then later the Fall of Reach animated series, but both of those have other canon issues so what they actual wore is entirely flexible
I perosnally like to think they were individualized at first then as the armor systems were run through the Covenant War grinder the Spartans radiated towards whatever worked best in most situations plus/minus personal preference and eventually became almost identiccal
simple locust
@terse lava Are there any examples of Council members using weapons?
Also why was that the case, that the minister would not have weapons?
terse lava
I only recall Vervum, an agent for the ministry of Anticipatory security having it, and the prophet of Exquisite Devotion. I would say most high ranking san shyuum have built in weaponry, but not all. As for why I dont know
limpid nexus
guys i just learned that spartans have a skin suit and a tech suit
terse lava
....ok?
simple locust
What reasons could the San'Shyuum council member in "The Return" have had for using a plasma pistol instead of his beam? Was he gonna take down the shields then finish the elite with the beam?
carmine sleet
Not every chair was armed with weapons
humble yacht
i could see only high prophets having access to chair beams
terse lava
Just personal taste likely. Regret spent enough time with sangheili to start carrying a personal arm. That san shyuum spent plenty of years with the shipmaster a d may have started carrying his own weapon eventually too
simple locust
The prophet in "The Return" appears to be the same as the ones used be the Hierarchs. It's not like the one used by the Minister of Etiology where there appears to not be the tear drop beam cannons on the chair. In Halo Wars 1 the teardrop end of the beam also is only present on the chair once it gets the cannon the hunter has or is similar to.
terse lava
It could be artistic interpretation
spiral jewel
Going along with the above conversation, were there any San'Shyuum that remained loyal to the Elites during the Great Schism, presumably due to relations with the high prophet Truth souring... (I didn't read much of the conversation)
limpid nexus
so is harvest completely glassed
terse lava
@spiral jewelRho, the prophet of Clarity stayed with the sangheili and refused to kill captured councillors a d commanders even when threatened with death himself. The sangheili who saved him, Gtorik, commented Rho was one of only a few san shyuum allies so he wasnt the only one.
spiral jewel
That's interesting to know!
terse lava
Indeed
near tide
Is the Flood Considered canon?
fair hazel
It’s canon