The Forerunners aren't back, the Created have taken over.
#lore-and-universe
feral perch
carmine sleet
Plus, I don't see any sort of hidden Flood fleet hiding out anywhere
deep pewter
The universe is stronger now than it was previously
feral perch
Unless of course the Didact's speech in Halo 4's Epilogue was in current day.
slim thorn
Or the Shield World fails
Like at Etran Harborage where the Floods are on the loose uncontained
last anchor
If the Flood DID show up they'd get smacked in the face by a WALL OF PROMETHEANS
Seriously Cortana could just THROW Soldiers at them at this point with Knight backup.
Plus reactivated Forerunner ships, Pheaton swarms, GUARDIANS.
slim thorn
Which makes her have a chance to kill her partner by accident if she do that.
last anchor
Im pretty sure she wants to kill Chief at this point anyway.
Also hes not her problem if she's facing the Flood. She of all people knows its dangers
Actually she might want to PUNCH IT HARDER because of her time in High Charity.
Gravemind: (doing Gravemind things on some weird old space hulk)
Cortana, rolling up with literally a thousand reactivated Forerunner ships and a MILLION Pheatons: "Hey ugly, REMEMBER ME?!"
slim thorn
Chief needs to seize the Mantle and he need Arbiter as his right hand
last anchor
Okay now your just going into weirdness. Why does CHIEF need to take the Mantle? Dudes just a soldier
Let him do soldier things
slim thorn
Mantle was intended for humanity
carmine sleet
Chief isn't interested in leading humanity or the galaxy
feral perch
The Mantle of Responsibility is wrong
carmine sleet
Regardless of whether the Mantle is intended for humanity or not
slim thorn
No, he isn't but he will be mandated to do so
carmine sleet
And StoneWall is right as well
slim thorn
He will, but he will destroy or scuttle it
feral perch
also nooo Chief ain’t gonna be mandated to do anything
deep pewter
The mantle is a metaphysical thing, John can’t seize it
carmine sleet
He will, but he will destroy or scuttle it
Scuttle? What do you mean by scuttle?
deep pewter
He isn’t a leader, Hood and people like him are much more apt to take part in the “mantle” than John
carmine sleet
Well, I wouldn't say Chief isn't a leader. He's just not the type of leader that should lead armies
last anchor
Hes a field commander.
Man on the ground, boots to the dirt.
Hell he turned down a promotion from Hood did he not?
slim thorn
But this situation is getting crazier years by years... Earth devolved into atomic age temporarily (Since Interstellar travel and others space faring are being locked down).
last anchor
Uh, no?
slim thorn
Hood was half-joking about his promotional to admiral.
If he was really serious, Hood could really meant for it.
last anchor
I dont think Earth is locked down THAT much...at least as far as I can tell.
Course, Sydney probably looks like it does in Gundam now
slim thorn
I kinda hate the moment where Neo Zeon / Zeon brings down a colony to a planet. Yeah, that destruction was catastrophic.
last anchor
...
Boi did you just confuse Char's Counter Attack with Operation BRITISH
Slash Operation Stardust
slim thorn
No, I watch the Gundam Trilogy Original.
Zeon / Neo Zeon also drops a colony at that time
last anchor
Just Zeon. Neo Zeon didn't happen until AFTER Amaru kicked the crap out of Zeon
slim thorn
If Frigate can cause a catastrophic destruction on Sydney, just how much the damage can shook Earth when larger ship blows.
last anchor
Then Operation Stardust happened and the Feddies got smoked...
Then came the Titans and the madness of Zeta, which lead to double Zeta, where Neo Zeon REALLY showed up (and then got the crap beat out of them by Amaru)
And THEN there's Char's Counter Attack, which is where Neo Zeon tries to drop an entire asteroid on Earth.
And gets the crap kicked out of them by Amaru.
Basically its just Zeon getting uppity and then Amaru kicking the crap out of them.
Kinda like the Covenant with Chief, really.
anyway
slim thorn
Gundam ZZ also happens once where Judau can't stop Haman's forces from dropping colony even Kamille was still on treatment post vegetative awakening.
last anchor
Oh right the Ireland drop.
Still
You know I wonder when the UNSCs gonna start making Space Mantis's
slim thorn
Space Mantis is difficult.
Not to mention the advanced version, Colossus also got some problem.
Mobility is too slow and easy to picked off by Fighters if Space Mantis was made.
last anchor
Just slap a bunch of verniers on it like a mobile suit.
slim thorn
Fuel and boosters is going to be a challenge.
If good enough, UNSC could make a Fighter like Zeta Gundam where it can be lethal on both Mobile Suit mode and Aircraft mode.
last anchor
At this point the Broadsword does kinda look like the Zeta's Wave Rider form.
Maybe something like a Macross Variable Fighter
We know they have micro fusion plants (since they power MJLONIR), and I think the Broadsword already has a fusion reactor at ist core
Someone correct me if Im wrong but Im pretty sure they're fusion-driven
slim thorn
Yeah, it's used fusion reactor
If UNSC get their hands on Covenant's glassing beam... Hell, they may be able to develop a gun like Space Battleship Yamato.
humble yacht
The Gravemind ignored Earth and used neural physics to jump to the Ark.
Technically, it just modified HC's engines with it's superior knowledge. I don't think neural physics was necessary.
Plus reactivated Forerunner ships, Pheaton swarms, GUARDIANS.
Guardians aren't suitable weapons against the Flood. At least, not the feral and coordinated stages. Theoretically, Interstellar-stage flood could have their ships disabled by a Guardian, but it's not like the Guardians could actually harm the flood in any meaningful way
last anchor
I was seeing them as like, floating laser batteries. Yes their main weapon isnt all that useful, but they do have pulse weaponry do they not?
Yeah, six converging beam cannons. More than enough to punch holes in any Flood-infected ship
jolly furnace
What are we discussing?
full nest
Flood?
abstract venture
Are the forerunner weapons that vaporize people (everything except the suppressor/lightrifle) antimatter weapons?
violet notch
I imagine that the Suppressor and Lightrifle still operate on the same mechanics, albeit on a different scale or focus. Whatever that mechanic may be. They just don't use it in a way that lends itself to disintegration like the other ones do.
So I don't think it's necessary to exclude them in your question.
carmine sleet
The Promethean weapons are firing hardlight projectiles
abstract venture
The suppressor and lightrifle are stated to use hardlight and they don't vaporize their targets
But the binary rifle does and its stated to use anti matter so are the incineration cannon and scatter shot the same is what I meant
And maybe variants of the light rifle/suppressor like the Dying Star which also vaporize dudes
stoic hamlet
It could just be gameplay?
lean karma
Do we know anything about the Covanant during WWI and II?? Like what they were up to before humans were living off world like right about now I. The time line?
In*
narrow spindle
what
carmine sleet
Do we know anything about the Covanant during WWI and II?? Like what they were up to before humans were living off world like right about now I. The time line?
Nothing really that was all that important to what we have seen
olive zenith
Actually she might want to PUNCH IT HARDER because of her time in High Charity.
Gravemind: (doing Gravemind things on some weird old space hulk)
Cortana, rolling up with literally a thousand reactivated Forerunner ships and a MILLION Pheatons: "Hey ugly, REMEMBER ME?!"
@last anchor
This is a good point, but at this point we do not know if/how much Cortana was corrupted during her time in High Charity
(first time posting here, if this has already been discussed, my B)
last anchor
Corrupted or not, she wouldn't want to deal with another Gravemind, having seen its abilities and how nasty it is first-hand
They mentioned she doesnt have the logic plauge, so shes not gonna roll over for the Flood like Medicant did
deep pewter
Human Weakness explains a good chunk of Cortana’s time with the Gravemind
olive zenith
I mean corrupted by the flood, does the Gravemind not have the abilities to twist technology or AI's to for its benefit? From Halo 3 quotes it's suggested and the Legends stories
deep pewter
He does, he didn’t have enough time with Cortana to do that
last anchor
Less than a month. Smart AIs take longer than stuff like a Sentinel.
See; Medicant taking 40 something years
olive zenith
Huh I didn't know it was confirmed she was not corrupted by him. Also did not know the time required to take em over
unique rune
I don't believe there's anything like a required min/max time, it just depends on the AI's capabilities.
Those types of things are pretty situational.
last anchor
Complexity as well. A simple AI like a Sentinel would be pretty easy to do as they're basically "dumb" AIs; they fight, they patrol, thats about it.
But then you get something like Cortana, made from the cloned brain of the smartest human of the 26th century (possibly...ever, honestly, depending) and then fed the best of UNSC computer tech, as close to a UNSC ancilla as we'll ever get...yeah. Its gonna take a LOT more to turn someone like her.
After all, the logic plauge is a choice, almost. The Flood showing the thing it is talking too that working with them is more logical than against.
Obviously, Cortana is a bit more resiliant...and she was waiting for the Chief. Dont count out will, even if its artificial.
keen canopy
0.00001% chance Cortana has logic plague. It's just too far-fetched. She literally showed zero sighs of it throughout Halo 3 and 4.
tardy quiver
So do countries still fight each in the Halo universe because that would be cool
unique rune
that would be cool
Uh.
Why, exactly...?
tardy quiver
Well picture it a spartan fighting another spartan for dominance n power while ODST drop pods drop from the sky and frigates crashing against each other
keen canopy
You might enjoy reading this https://www.halopedia.org/Insurrection
tardy quiver
Ok
Oh yeah The Insurrections that why Emile pulled a gun out on one of them on the first mission of H:R he called em rebels
And even in the comics
terse lava
Sounds a tad boring
unique rune
Well picture it a spartan fighting another spartan for dominance n power while ODST drop pods drop from the sky and frigates crashing against each other
Er.
No thanks.
tender ginkgo
Pretty sure Cortana has logic plague. Like she spent quite a bit of time with the Gravemind who was able to corrupt Medicant Bias who was an AI vastly superior to her. Like Cortana's behavior in Halo 5 is pretty well explained by logic plague.
gilded mason
Gravemind who was able to corrupt Medicant Bias who was an AI vastly superior to her.
After 40 years
fair hazel
The rookie wasn't much of a character. Also uh, Alpha-Nine has been reunited so..
unique rune
Cortana’s behavior in Halo 5 is pretty well explained by the logic plague.
Not... really...?
gilded mason
That too
tender ginkgo
Yeah Medicant 40 years but thats because he was an AI light eyars ahead of Cortana
unique rune
She’s effectively just repeating what the Forerunners did in their enforcement of the Mantle, which, while incredibly flawed, really doesn’t make much sense for the Gravemind to have manipulated her into eventually doing.
tender ginkgo
It does in that she is weakening the Galaxy for the possible return of the Flood. Though we will have to wait for Infinite to know
slim thorn
The rookie wasn't much of a character. Also uh, Alpha-Nine has been reunited so..
No, but I like him as the true silent one in the gameplay.
unique rune
Even if it was the Logic Plague, it’d be an incredibly long, drawn out setup heavily dependent on very specific circumstances.
slim thorn
Who else can listen to anyone's ranting without commenting on anything than Rookie?
unique rune
Let Chief escape from the wreckage of High Charity, hope the rear end of the Dawn gets severed and set adrift in space for half a decade until it bumps into a Forerunner shield world that just so happens to be the Didact’s prison, forcing Cortana to sacrifice herself and make it to the Domain... and then make her return proclaiming to be the legitimate successor to the Forerunners?
I dunno about you but this all seems far too convoluted and contrived to be passed off as a result of the Logic Plague.
And I’ll be very disappointed if 343 tries to spin it that way.
jolly furnace
Thing is if Cortana tries to match wits with a Gravemind again, she will lose, GM's sheer knowledge, intellect and its metaphysical abilities are such that she can't match it.
I don't think GM is appearing again before she's defeated though
slim thorn
Or when both sides are exhausted. GM invade Forerunner when they are exhausted.
terse lava
If I recall the flood will return when humanity has become powerful again
midnight loom
hmm
slim thorn
I wonder why there are no Swordsman on UNSC...?
The Sangheili could do a lot of duel of honor or sparring if they found a human excels in Swordmaster
terse lava
Sword fighting became useless to humans
Also the only human that would even match a sangheili would be a spartan
gilded mason
We know some Spartans practice with the energy sword. But overall, it's a bit needless since guns exist.
terse lava
Yep
slim thorn
Even Chief is almost defeated at Operation Warm Blanket
If only UNSC got Powerful Swordsman such as Zoro or Akame, they can bring Sangheili into chilling spine all day.
gilded mason
...Okay.
slim thorn
But it can be also a good way to learn how their Swordmanship work.
terse lava
The only humans in existence that can challenge a sangheili would be Spartans and they are limited. As Ostral said, Spartans are trained in CQC, but that's moatly.with knives
slim thorn
Too bad the Spartans doesn't have Japanese person...
gilded mason
🤔
terse lava
Hm?
keen canopy
Even Sangheili are aware of the disadvantage wielding an energy sword in battle puts them at. It's an honour thing.
slim thorn
But... I do really like when Spartans and Elites are training their swordmanship to hone their skills. When you got no guns, sword and knife is the last thing you need to use.
keen canopy
Keiichi is a Japanese name no?
slim thorn
Keiichi is still unknown at this point
If UNSC can develop a blade that can be function as a Sword and Energy weapon, that will be fantastic.
terse lava
I don't think humans need lightsabers
gilded mason
It'd be really redundant
terse lava
I understand the appeal of it, but the sangheili already have that idea in a unique way, and likely the forerunners before them too
slim thorn
Considering only UNSC that doesn't have bladed weapons, it feels painful.
Even Promethean got blade on their arms.
terse lava
Humanity has machetes
unique rune
Promethean Knights have a hardlight blade, sure, but... they also carry around integrated firearms.
Too bad the Spartans doesn't have Japanese person...
And what does that have anything to do with it...?
keen canopy
Again, the UNSC does have a standard-issue bladed weapon https://www.halopedia.org/Combat_knife
terse lava
Yep
unique rune
“Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword”
midnight loom
;p;
terse lava
Oh those commissars
stoic hamlet
The way a Spartan fights in CQC is brutally efficient, they’re so fast they don’t need a long blade in CQC. It would be far too unwieldy and likely get in the way.
There’s a reason most modern bayonets are shorter than those of the past.
I can’t see any Spartan actually utilize an actual bladed Sword , even a IV.
terse lava
Maybe only a wrist like device like sangheili have in Reach but that's about it outside if a normal knife
gilded mason
Maybe only a christ-like device like sangheili have
Kel'Darsam died for your sins
stoic hamlet
Mhm.
I mean, we know there are slightly longer blades carried by Spartans. One of Grey Team has one on the cover of Cole Protocol, as does the SPI page in Mythos, but it’s more a machete than an actual sword.
slim thorn
Promethean Knights have a hardlight blade, sure, but... they also carry around integrated firearms.
And what does that have anything to do with it...?
If they do have, the Japanese people might got info and try to make a Katana-weapon.
stoic hamlet
A Katana is a really bad Sword for modern warfare
Also, it was almost never used except as a sidearm
gilded mason
Katanas are memes
stoic hamlet
Same with European swords
Often you’d see men using Polearms in Europe or bows in Japan.
No one in their right mind would ever only use a sword in an actual battle.
Except for a two hander, but those weren’t meant for actual one-on-one combat, they were meant to break pikes
slim thorn
Using Knife on Brute is also hard enough, but not with sword. Like how Buck got hard time stabbing Brute's neck.
terse lava
Or to cut through while riding a horse
stoic hamlet
....A sword would be even tougher than a knife.
Also a Katana isn’t meant for stabbing
slim thorn
Making a cut is the best one for Katana
stoic hamlet
And it wouldn’t do much to a Brute
Especially if they’re wearing armour
Katana’s are memes, even moreso than the “typical” European knight.
Also:
Considering we’ve had several Japanese studios animate Halo stories, and none gave Spartans or the UNSC swords, I feel that’s a pretty clear statement.
Even the joke non-canon one didn’t.
terse lava
Ironic that bungie did with one h3 armor set
fair hazel
There is way too much of a cult around katanas
stoic hamlet
A cult of misinformation and incorrect worship.
fair hazel
also, the advantage energy melee weaponry has is cutting through things that would take bullets or handsd way longer to break through
terse lava
Energy sword best sword
stoic hamlet
But if it’s energy you don’t need a specific shaped blade for that necessarily.
You could have it be a block if you wanted.
fair hazel
shape kinda matters
stoic hamlet
Not as much as with a physical blade.
fair hazel
not as much, but still does
terse lava
A small bit perhaps, we do see multiple energy blades weapons in a covenant duel room in LVTIS
humble yacht
shape matters less for cutting and more for energy efficiency
thinner blade means less power needed to operate, but still retains effectiveness
terse lava
Mhm
humble yacht
if energy swords had blades that were 3 in thick, it would be totally unecessary
humble yacht
the more volume the blade has, the more energy required to keep it on
sure, it could look like a cardboard box and still be deadly, but it probably wouldn't last very long
stoic hamlet
A Katana (ugh)
A Longsword (no)
A ZweiHander (too long)
A Dao (same as the Katana)
fair hazel
... spartan spear..
stoic hamlet
It doesn’t fit as a UNSC weapon
humble yacht
ew
stoic hamlet
See, Spears were the most common weapon in history, but again, they don’t fit Halo and the more “realistic” universe.
At least not for the UNSC
stoic hamlet
For the Covenant they’re fine. They have those Glaives/Voulges
humble yacht
make the combat knife a high frequency blade. that makes it futuristic while not changing it's function
fair hazel
the high frequency idea makes me... kinda.. cringe honestly..
humble yacht
spartan spear makes me cringe
terse lava
What's wrong with high frequency blades?
terse lava
Dont be dissing the burnblades
humble yacht
they'd only be effective against flesh
like, RE3 has a hot knife you can buy that sets zoms on fire, and that's fine
terse lava
Seriously? Weird
humble yacht
but try to parry a cold blade with that and you'll bend your hot knife
fair hazel
it seems, like this very low-sci-fi, unrealistic and engineering . i can't find the right words for it. i know thefeeling i just cant put it into words.
humble yacht
in a universe where 26th century humans are still primarily using ballistic weaponry, how can you get "low-sci-fi"?
terse lava
Kinda what humanity is in halo. Basic, efficient, lacking much in the visual department. They went for what works
Look at their ships, armor, weapons, etc. They don't do fancy
humble yacht
they keep modern day tech and just made it slightly better
they still use bullets but the bullets explode
they still use armor but the armor is powered
compared to the covenant, almost everything about the UNSC is pretty pedestrian
terse lava
Yep
humble yacht
as far as realism goes, HF blades have a modern day precedent: electric hair clippers
reef estuary
its kinda surprising to say the least
thatr Earth hasn't completely militarized its civillian population
reef estuary
I mean in Halo lore, Earth is always under threat of the possibility of invasion, they are in a long war,
versed helm
Yeah I dont think a spear fits within the UNSC arsenal in the slightest bit tbh
reef estuary
i think its more surprising they havent reverse engineered a plasma rifle or something, so that they can fire a type of munition that is more effective against shielded targets
humble yacht
your only options for using a spear are really charge, thrust, or throw. charging makes you an open target, thrusting requires close range in which you might be outclassed by another weapon type, and throwing is just worse shooting
UNSC made spartan laser, which is directed energy and therefore better against shields
reef estuary
spartan laser is so impractical for infantry to use, its more an antivehicle weapon
humble yacht
they also reverse engineered hard light tech and learned to coat their bullets with it
or at least, adopted hard light tech into their own
versed helm
Thats pretty cool
humble yacht
i doubt they understand how it works
slim thorn
On top of that, UNSC need to learn to understand Nanolaminate plating
Since it was basically superior against Titanium Armor.
unique rune
I mean.
I doubt the UNSC doesn’t “understand” nanolaminates.
Considering they’re a real-life thing.
slim thorn
Based on fact today, the only country that used nano components is Japan on Type-10 MBT, utilizing Nano-steel Crystal Armor.
UNSC should be able to utilize Nano technology on Titanium armor as well.
humble yacht
they do
slim thorn
Then why they don't understand Nanolaminates? If it was a part of Nano-tech then they should be able to get a grasp on it.
humble yacht
who says they don't understand nanolaminates?
slim thorn
Hmm.. Seems I misunderstanding it..
terse lava
Do we have any decent showings of humanity using them?
last anchor
The nanomachines in MJLONIR probably involves some of it. How else you gonna modify plates of titanium-A
humble yacht
Heat it up, forge it out, cool it down
tardy quiver
I'm just saying why did they cancel the prototype
carmine sleet
You mean the HRUNTING/YGGDRASIL Mark I ADS? That thing wasn't a prototype for Mjolnir
tardy quiver
I'm talking about that mech from the Halo Legends
carmine sleet
That is what I was referring to
tardy quiver
Oh
carmine sleet
It wasn't a Mjolnir prototype
And it led to the in universe creation of the Mantis walkers we see in Halo 4 and 5
Also, the Prototype isn't a mech, it's a heavily armed suit
unique rune
It wasn’t really cancelled either, considering the Mk.I[J] was designed and probably constructed at... some point.
carmine sleet
It's likely it still saw very limited use though
Wouldn't surprise me if it was a little too costly for them to make
tardy quiver
So like you know how many battles the UNSC n ONI could have one with that mech
unique rune
...No.
tardy quiver
They could have been tea-bagging Wardens n Grunt Mechs
carmine sleet
Maybe one or two battles on the ground could've possibly gone differently, but I doubt that it would've helped all that much, considering how dangerous the Covenant was
unique rune
It wouldn’t matter a whole lot. Ground engagements that ended in UNSC victory could easily be wiped with a quick Covenant glassing beam.
tardy quiver
True
carmine sleet
And yeah, glassing beams, the ultimate game over the Covenant could use on the UNSC
tardy quiver
But ain't there built in atomic nuke in the suit that when set you can explosion from space that easily destroy a super carrier
unique rune
Unless that thing somehow managed to board the carrier, no.
tardy quiver
It had built in missiles
unique rune
And...?
carmine sleet
The self destruct is meant to ensure the suit isn't recovered by enemy forces, not to use to destroy ships
unique rune
I think you’re severely underestimating the capabilities of a Covenant supercarrier.
carmine sleet
And having missiles means nothing, many things have missiles
tardy quiver
Couldn't it make a tiny chunk big enough to it to get in?
carmine sleet
Energy shields are good at stopping most projectiles from damaging the hull of a Covenant ship
tardy quiver
So what if hit the carrier like Noble 6 did?
unique rune
You mean... getting inside the ship.
carmine sleet
I think they mean Six using the MAC at the end of Reach to shoot the carrier
unique rune
That... is on a completely different scale from a nuclear explosion.
carmine sleet
That mission was one of the more unorthodox missions as well
tardy quiver
Just find the core
unique rune
And they still had to get inside a Covenant vessel to get close enough for it to work.
tardy quiver
Like Thom did
carmine sleet
Thom didn't find the core of the ship, he threw the nuke into a large space filled with Covies
unique rune
And that was a battlecruiser, not a supercarrier.
tardy quiver
OoP I got mixed up
reef estuary
I mean if you didn't read the novels,
you wouldnt really know how strong those cruisers or even how deadly the covenant was
carmine sleet
Whose lore vids?
tardy quiver
HiddenExpira's n HaloFollower's
unique rune
Not exactly... what I’d call the best of choices.
tardy quiver
Yeah but they are only one doesn't month long brakes to make vids
carmine sleet
Ok, yeah... You'd be better off not watching HaloFollower. He's not exactly known for having trustworthy videos
Yeah but they are only one doesn't month long brakes to make vids
Quality is always better than quantity
tardy quiver
True
keen canopy
Halo Canon is the best choice if you're looking for lore.
obsidian thistle
HiddenXperia be cool with me 🙂
*Seeing as I help him now and then. (Sooo I may have a lil bias lol)
main rivet
Clickbait life now? 😛
unique rune
I’m inclined to disagree, but... you do you.
obsidian thistle
I'm more a wiki guy myself xD
tacit timber
I watched forward unto dawn for the first time last night and now I can see why lasky is such a chief fanboy 
slim thorn
It's because Lasky owe him a life debt. If Blue Team wasn't coming to his academy, he probably be dead already.
tacit timber
It’s also cool how he’s remembering the whole thing as he hears the distress call
stoic hamlet
That distress call has an error I didn’t notice the first time around
Cortana ends the call with “Sierra Zero One One Seven.”
But there shouldn’t be a zero there.
violet notch
If you regard the callsign as a number, a leading zero means nothing. If you regard the callsign as a string of characters then it does.
last anchor
Maybe they need a four-didgit number for the transmission
Or, possibly, the 0 replaces the - in S-117
Not sure, just thinkin
violet notch
I'm saying there's a difference in the "number 0" and the "letter 0".
Computers can regard the character "0" as a letter or a number.
If it's a number, then a leading 0 makes absolutely no difference.
If it's a letter, then it makes all the difference.
tacit timber
Yea
inner basin
Or, possibly, the 0 replaces the - in S-117
I don’t think so because when Cortana is recalling her serial number, she includes the hyphen (-)
sturdy ice
Do u know who the precursrs are?
pprecursor?
Actually, HOW DID THE FLOOD BEGIN BEFORE TS INVASION ON HE FORERUNNERS?
humble yacht
Some precursors turned themselves into dust that went bad and then that dust was fed to ancient human livestock and turned into the flood
eternal oriole
how does that work?
static oxide
tender ginkgo
Yeah humans fed Flood powder to their pets who grew feral and spread the infection. From there it just escalated
keen canopy
It's implied that the Precursors made the dust have no effect because they were aware of what was happening.
Humanity experimented with this weird dust they found on a derelict ship for like 200 years IIRC and found zero effect.
Until one day, they found that giving it to pets made them smarter. That's a desirable effect, so it became quite popular to feed those to them. Then the pets slowly began to evolve more desirable traits, so they kept breeding those ones and it became more widespread around AH/San Shyuum civilisation
Then it hit the fan, as they say.
My interpretation is that the Precursors were aware the entire time, and were manipulating AH into becoming complacent with the dust, confident that it wasn't dangerous. And then spreading the dust far and wide, putting the Precursors in a position from which they could strike.
lost star
Actually, why did the Precursors attack the humans? I thought it was the Forerunners that betrayed them.
keen canopy
the Flood started taking over human worlds, and eventually reached Forerunner space. The Humans basically destroyed any Forerunner planets the Flood had made it on to, and I think even ones that merely lay in the Flood's path. The Forerunners viewed this as an act of war.
Later on the Flood manipulated Ancient Humanity into believing they had found a cure, and pretended to be beaten, so that Ancient Humanity could focus their full attention on their war with the Forerunners. Then after the Forerunners had wiped out AH, the Flood swooped in started messing up the now weakened Forerunners, and everyone knows what happened after that.
So the Precursors got back at the Forerunners in the end for seizing the mantle. Infact the Halo Array can be viewed as the ultimate failure, and proof that the Forerunners were never fit to hold it. Not only could they not protect all life in the galaxy, they ended up having to resort to exterminating all life in the galaxy order to save any of it at all.
It can be interpreted that the Flood didn't want to merely destroy the Forerunners, it wanted to drive them to the realization that they weren't fit for the mantle.
slim thorn
Where is the place you mentioned about? If it was at the middle, it can serve as a both but at the front, it was the glassing beam.
unique rune
CAS-class have multiple energy projectors.
It's likely the gravity lift can also function as one but I don't recall if any media has shown it operating as such...
half lichen
Does anyone know the legitimate speed of the M12B FAV?
I know it’s faster than 125km/h
feral perch
Halopedia says it’s 125km/h
half lichen
But that is incorrect
feral perch
So I think that is indeed top speed for the Hog
carmine sleet
Halopedia is one of the best places to look for info like that
feral perch
Canonically the Scorpion is faster
half lichen
But it is incorrect
feral perch
Remember gameplay =/= canon
unique rune
Those speeds are from the Waypoint Universe articles on the respective vehicles, so...
feral perch
So gameplay does not necessarily represent true canon
half lichen
Hm
feral perch
Which 343i made
half lichen
I still don’t feel like it’s right, it shouldn’t be
feral perch
But it is, until 343i says otherwise
half lichen
Hmph
unique rune
I mean.
If you've got an issue with it, you can probably ask Grim on Twitter or something, otherwise...
half lichen
I’ll just let it be
slim thorn
CAS-class have multiple energy projectors.
It's likely the gravity lift can also function as one but I don't recall if any media has shown it operating as such...
If I remember, Jerome is using the Gravity Lift to infiltrate Enduring Conviction and Isabel use it as an energy projector to lure out Sentinels so they can bisect it.
terse lava
Correct
main rivet
Eh, I don't think it implies active intent.
The Precursors turned themselves into a powder, but it's implied the powder became defective.
So in that sense the Flood weren't necessarily the plan.
But their exact origins are also a bit confused, because the canon doesn't entirely agree (are they extragralactic or not?) and because the Primordial/Gravemind are unreliable actors.
terse lava
The powder itself was extra galactic, as for intent, would say the corrupted precursors made lemonade out of lemons
I would argue it was similar to the didact without the domain. Those that managed to actually flee never returned, and continued creating life elsewhere. Meanwhile the timeless one didnt getbthat luxury, and was stuck stewing in anger for eons
jolly furnace
My guess is the powder became genuinely defective over time (1 million years given Primordial arrived in the MW 1 million years after the Forerunner-Precursor war) or the dust was made defective deliberately by another Precursor without the consent/awareness of the other Precursors.
terse lava
Well aren't we told that naturally a precursor cant live as long as the primordial? That he was actively mutated to survive deep time?
If we take the details given about him, his picture in Mythos, and the picture of a precursor in warfleet, can see the differences
jolly furnace
I imagine Precursors had different natural agespans depending on whatever form they were in.
Natural lifespan is irrelevent anyway with these beings
Given they just re-evolve in new forms after old ones go extinct
Also being able to take incorporeal form as well eliminates natural lifespan issue. Can't really die in such a form.
terse lava
True
prime python
Was I the only one that thought Spartan Locke was female back when they announced Halo 5?
I posted a discussion on waypoint before, but since I've read Halo: Last Light and Retribution, it would have been interesting if there was an alternative story where Veta Lopis and her Ferret team hunted down Chief and Blue Team instead. Someone told me that since Veta comes from a world supporting insurrection (Gao), that would be highly unlikely anyway
slim thorn
Well... Veta was sold out by her own Government so she decide to work for UNSC from that day onwards/
prime python
She's still very skeptical of ONI though
I only mentioned her since she and her team interacted with Blue Team before
Idk if I can go into spoiler territory here, I'm new lol
slim thorn
go to #485883236430512168 to talk about spoiler stuffs
Well... At least Lopis got her title, "Mom" from Spartan-III
feral perch
Anything that’s been out for longer than a month is free game
Read this channel at your own risk
prime python
Fred's armor getting disabled? XD
slim thorn
It's not a surprise if Lopis can slip in on his armor's gap.
Do we have someone that kept getting back despite being blown away many times?
versed helm
I miss chips 😔
slim thorn
lol Chips Dubbo
It's kinda difficult to meet a character that kept coming back despite he blow himself up many times.
prime python
I don't remember lol
But Halopedia did say she planted a small explosive charge in his power supply
slim thorn
Kinda miss Wild Dog from Time Crisis though. He kept return despite blowing himself up many times.
If we got someone with the same characteristic as Wild Dog, that will be a surprise.
Or maybe Wild Dog and Chips Dubbo are two different side in one coin.
They kept coming back again and again
prime python
Oof that book though, I remember that part where Olivia had her kneecaps or something broken and she was still running
Gamma enhancements go ballistic
slim thorn
Does 343 plan to bring Dubbo back?
Two characters that remains a mystery is Marcus Stacker and Chips Dubbo
reef estuary
they can't bring back chips dubbo
if they want any tension in the story, or larger narrative, they need to keep chips dubbo out, because otherwise he'll just demolish whoever stands in his way without any effort,
What? You thought the covenant and flood were a threat to dubbo? Nah, mate, that bloke right there, he was already winning punch ons with hunters, not surprising really given that the crocs back home gave him more trouble. Thought he was already being far too humble when he decided to let chief take all the credit.
slim thorn
Stacker was back in Halo 4 though, only he's not seen in the field itself. If Dubbo was back, I'm much more like he can only be used at a place where he didn't need to participate. Elites hearing Grunts ranting on Sanghelios camp changed with Dubbo and Stacker chattering each other will be nice.
main rivet
I've never really seen the issue with accepting Chips and Stacker as just perennial Marine voices. Canonically they don't really exist as a single person.
versed helm
they're like Catalog lol
fair hazel
@slim thorn there is nothing to talk in spoiler chat
versed helm
Not yet 👀
main rivet
One day...
Since it came up when I was working on a current video, what do people think is the over/under on finally meeting Installation 07's monitor in Infinite?
obsidian thistle
Ah the Chips and Stacker debate. XD
That debate pops up a lot on Halopedias server and on the wiki itself. XD
The tldr is. Stacker and Chips are really odd. And ATM if they are fully canon. Then its another twig onto the Second group of I04 survivors theory I and a few others have.
spiral jewel
So, there's potentially more I04 survivors than what First Strike let's on?
keen canopy
Chang is most likely just an invented, propaganda character.
CIA, surely you agree that M Stacker is 100% , without a doubt Canon in H2, Halo 4 and ADatB. And Reach's Armory if that counts.
obsidian thistle
You cant deny CE/CEA has a case to be made
keen canopy
Oh yea I'm not
I'm saying those are the ones with no doubt.
Reach, 3, CE all have cases to be made
obsidian thistle
I am still under the impression while the characters are canon. And can be in those games. The appearances in the campaigns may not be unless specified specifically.
So yes
What you said is right.
So Stacker "can" be there during the events of Halo CE. But he may not have met the Chief at all.
That sorta logic
keen canopy
Hmm
obsidian thistle
I dub it the "CE-Johnson effect'.
keen canopy
Isn't literally the only info we have to suggest he was there, his gameplay appearances?
obsidian thistle
Toy lore yo
keen canopy
The toy depicts a gameplay model
And gives it a name
That's literally it right
It doesn't say "this guy served on battle of I04"
obsidian thistle
While true. It does give him a big case to be there.
Bigger than Chips thats for sure
keen canopy
I disagree, Chips got named in the credits man
Stacker got named by a toy retroactively
reef estuary
some say chips rescued chief from the truth and reconciliation :^)
keen canopy
Stacker's only solid appearance in CE is literally thanks to a patch by 343i in the year 2020 CIA
obsidian thistle
*See its a huge debate this lol.
keen canopy
So it's either that second AotCR Sergeant was M Stacker, which I'm completely onboard with, or he wasn't there (on I04) at all
obsidian thistle
Or Chief never encountered him.
As I said the "CE-Johnson Effect" where Johnson can appear in numerious places even scripted stuff but cant be as said place due to being busy.
keen canopy
Indeed, Stacker can be at the Control room and also on the Keyes mission, same issue as Johnson.
It's because they were Sergeant architypes lol
reef estuary
yeah they think johnson died in halo 3, but he actually died at least 4 times in halo ce
keen canopy
But even if we're retroactively taking CE stacker as a canonical character, the only thing we have with canonical weight is that AotCR appearance and the toy
obsidian thistle
Its entirely canonically possible that Stacker was at I04. But was never/rarely encountered by Chief.
obsidian thistle
What is there to suggest that Chief met every person who crash landed on I04
Thats what I am getting at.
keen canopy
What is there to suggest Stacker crash landed on I04, other than being present at AotCR where he ran into Chief?
Like, you know how unreasonably invested in this issue I am lol, if there was something I'd know by now 😅
obsidian thistle
I am going off the he exists in CE logic. Where if something/someone exists its "possible" to be present at an event.
In this case I am using it to reasonably say that its possible for Stacker to be on I04. But have little to no ties to Johns events in CE.
keen canopy
That's circular logic though
Veronica Dare exists, it's possible she was present at I04 right
But we have no reason to assume so
obsidian thistle
You are missing what I am getting at lol.
Dare is not in CE. Stacker is in CE.
Its a easier case to consider as its isolated to characters in a game.
keen canopy
And when he's in CE, he meets John
Surely you can see the problem with assuming that one particular appearance is enough to then confirm someone was there at the event as a whole, but then say that that appearance might not be definitive, but his appearance as a whole is
the appearance is the thing that supported being there at the event as a whole in the first place
obsidian thistle
I never said it was definitive. More "possible"
Big difference is there is no absolute
keen canopy
I know there's no absolute, (like I said earlier, there's a case to be made) the only difference we have is that you're saying he could have been there, but not been at any of his appearances
obsidian thistle
Yes.
keen canopy
Which I heartily disagree with, as the appearances are the only thing suggesting he's there in the first place.
obsidian thistle
I mean. If we ignore Fireteam Raven that saved it heh.
CEA retconned out the M90 from the events of CE. But some could have argued that the M90 was still used in the events.
keen canopy
Oh nvm I misread, I follow you now. CEA visuals are considered definitive over CE's thanks to Grim, right.
keen canopy
Similarly, Halo the Flood doesn't mention a Gunnery Sergeant in charge of the second group of marines encountered in AotCR.
But that doesn't mean he can't of still been there as we see in CE, correct
keen canopy
Right, many people disagree, but I'm with you on that one
I just think that if you're discounting an appearance, (aka that M Stacker was at AotCR) you have to discount the conclusions you that you used that appearance as evidence for (that M Stacker from 2/4 was at I04)
obsidian thistle
My logic is he can be there. But its not confirmed for that very specific event.
But as he exists in CE in general its possible for him to be present in the overall battle of I04.
keen canopy
So when you say "But as he exists in CE in general" you're aware that he's not named in any of the gamefiles or credits, unlike every single other Marine in CE?
He doesn't "exist in CE in general" without that toy Chris
obsidian thistle
But the toy exists. We cant ignore that
keen canopy
And the toy supports that particular model only
You know, the one that appears in game
keen canopy
Who knows Chef, it's theorized some human scientists found out... and they uh... yea look it up.
obsidian thistle
One thing was to test species to hold a mantle. Interpretations of the mantle differ pending who is being tested.
keen canopy
Nah I'm talking Ancient Humanity. A precursor told them (the scientists) something, and they all took their own lives
obsidian thistle
Its the interpretation the Forerunners took of it
high gorge
Oh
obsidian thistle
Kinda the best way to view it
high gorge
What’s the scariest part about the Halo Universe?
unique rune
Uh.
Probably anything involving the Flood.
terse lava
Seeing your moment of salvation vanish before your eyes as the flood begins to repurpose you, giving you the eternal life the Covenant promised but not in the way they intended
obsidian thistle
I'd argue its a tie between the Composers Abyss or having your soul consumed into the Flood collective.
Though being lost in Slipspace is terrifying. Kinda suprised Jun wasnt named a War Criminal for being involved with the slipspace bomb a tad.
keen canopy
Oh sheesh Ado that's good stuff
jolly furnace
You can at least be freed from the Composers Abyss into the Domain. No such luck with the Flood collective as far as we know yet.
terse lava
And slipspace may not be bad seeing as you will eventually die
slim thorn
If Dubbo and Stacker returns, that will be great. Stacker already enlisted as UNSC Infinity Crew and he's still using his signature when pushing the battle lines on Requiem. Hopefully Dubbo also made his return.
keen canopy
Unfortunately, even if Dubbo didn't die on I04, he definitely he seems to have died in H2 at the end of Regret
Having scripted mission dialogue all the way through the level, even up to seeing Regret's hologram and then seeing High Charity arrive is like, multiple nails in the coffin.
terse lava
He just activated active camo and ditched
slim thorn
He even returned at Voi unscathed
keen canopy
Dubbo actually has unused spawns on the scarab at the end of Great Journey, so it's possible bungo intended for him to survive h2
Cut along with most of H2 unfortunately 😢
obsidian thistle
That or he survived and got away the same way Miranda did and so on. Just it happens off-screen.
Cause we all know Operation: OFF-SCREEN
*in a side note I love how thats a lore fans joke.
keen canopy
It's a classic for sure
Though we know Miranda and Johnson (and probably Stacker and Banks too) boarded Shadow of Intent to discuss quarantine plans, and then headed back to Earth aboard a small sized slipspace capable covie ship
And it's a classic case of that's the only known way for any of IAC's crew to make it off the ring
Sounds familiar 😅
terse lava
Always wondered where those sangheili went after dropping off Thel and co. No point in going bgg ack to Delta with the long trip
carmine sleet
We could guess that Ntho and Uzse were two of the Elites that helped drop off Arby, Johnson and Miranda, given that they were the co-op Elites alongside Chief and Arby in campaign
terse lava
Yea, just curious where the vessel and the crew went
carmine sleet
Stealth maybe?
terse lava
Perhaps...maybe it's the same Corvette Ntho would eventually become shipmaster of
carmine sleet
Possible
half apex
are there forunners in the path kethona galaxy?
abstract venture
There used to be, they are all very dead now
A Halo was fired at the galaxy killing them
terse lava
Trying to remember, was the point of that Halo fire aimed that direction to prevent the star roads that were there from arriving in the Galaxy, with the forerunners there accidentally killed? Or was Faber trying to eliminate both?
violet notch
Is it possible there's another galaxy out there that's been 100% assimilated by the Flood? If so, do you think it'd look like a regular galaxy, albeit every habitable world is completely overrun? Or would it be one gigantic galaxy sized Flood?
terse lava
The gravemind confirmed it had consumed other galaxies in Silentium, and halo 3.
violet notch
I thought he was referencing the Flood's near victory that forced the Forerunner to fire the Halo array. I thought he said "the galaxy", not "galaxies".
terse lava
Halo 3 was "consumed a galaxy of flesh and mind and bone" he got close but never managed to devour the whole milky way, even with that quote being Bungie's intention
violet notch
Yeah, I still interpret that as referencing his near victory before. Albeit with the embellished hyperbole of his overall success, which we know to not be 100% complete, so using it in the past tense is just exaggeration.
terse lava
Indeed
As for Silentium, "this we were told by the gravemind, the greatest of them, who has consumed ten thousand planets and brought entire galaxies to an end. This we were told..."
abstract venture
To add on, the Flood left the galaxy for 10000 years doing who knows what out there, so they had plenty of time to take over galaxies
terse lava
Quite
eternal oriole
I thought all the flood converged to the halo ring in 3, and when chief and the arbiter made it explode, that killed all the flood that we knew of, so if they were mingiling in galaxies far, far away, were they all not on the ring when it exploded?
terse lava
Kinda odd humanity apparently couldnt give chase to them
@eternal oriolethia was before even the forerunner flood war. The current era was a single out break that got high charity
eternal oriole
So there are still numbers beyond count living in the expanding universe?
terse lava
Yep
violet notch
Each Halo installation held onto Flood samples for continued experimentation. The one we took out in H3 was a particularly bad outbreak that came from Installation 05's samples. That means there's still the samples on Installations 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, and any other facilities such as the Shield World from Halo Wars that apparently had samples too. Any one of those other sample locations could result in another outbreak in the Milky Way.
terse lava
Actually it seems the flood attached that shield world
You see crashed forerunner ships on the surface
violet notch
Wouldn't those Flood have been wiped out then on the Halo firing?
terse lava
Only the higher forms
violet notch
If those are Forerunner war era Flood, they'd be dead.
terse lava
Not the infection forns
violet notch
No, the Halos are pretty complete in their desolation.
terse lava
They dont kill infection forms
Just thinking beings
Or those with at least a notochord
violet notch
Why the "F" wouldn't they kill the infection forms?
terse lava
No notochord
violet notch
What's the point in committing to a "nuclear option" if your final option isn't total?
I find that very hard to believe.
terse lava
It's been lore since day 1..."halo doesnt kill flood, it kills their food" this was later expanded on to count higher flood forms
violet notch
That's been retconned though as a hyperbolic statement by Cortana to drill the point home to Chief.
It kills the Flood too.
As well as its food.
terse lava
Yea, higher form flood
Not spores
Not infection forms
Unless of course said form is controlling a combat form
violet notch
That just sounds stupid though. There's bound to be a metric "F"-ton of infection forms on any particularly infected planet. So why would the Forerunner kill everything, but leave those behind? They'd make certain that life on that planet would never be reseeded and successfully grow back, and that was the whole point of the plan.
terse lava
Apparantly they did starve out to some extent. You could argue too thatbbthe forerunner ships were guarding the planet and just crashed after the array fired
jolly furnace
Glad someone else noticed the crashed wrecked forerunner ships on the surface of the Etran Harbourage. It implies the Flood attacked it at some point during the war and is the reason the Flood ende up inside it
The ships would have had AI on them to keep them from crashing though
violet notch
I just assumed the facility had spores in stasis/quarantine for experimentation like the Halos did.
violet notch
And any number of celestial events could have damaged enough systems that the quarantine failed. Including orbiting ships falling out of orbit and crashing.
jolly furnace
Either the Flood attacked that world or it got out at some point and caused all that damage before being recontained
No indication of celestial events thoug
violet notch
I doubt that we'll ever get a satisfying answer.
jolly furnace
Probably not
Esepcially since later canon implies the Flood outbreak was recent there
violet notch
Celestial events don't need indication. A friggin meteor passing by, getting caught in the planet's natural gravity, and crashing into the wrong spot on the surface could have done it too.
violet notch
Don't need to crack the shell, just damage the surface.
Which is where the majority of the infection had been isolated to.
jolly furnace
I would think automated systems would repair the shell over time
Also something i noticed - the surface appears to have cities on it
in one background shot
violet notch
Hell, even if the quarantined spores weren't on the planet itself, but in the orbiting ships. And they somehow broke their stasis post Halo firing. I find that far easier to believe than the Forerunner just overlooking an entire function of the Flood lifecycle and just let the Infection forms live on the planet.
It seriously defeats the entire purpose to firing the Halos in the first place if, of all forms to ommit, the effing Infection forms? No.
That Flood outbreak had to have been caused by something post-firing breaking out of containment.
How it broke out of containment? We'll never know. But it's far more believable than thinking those are pre-firing Flood.
violet notch
Less a leap of logic and assumptions too, as Flood breaking containment is something we see in Halos 1 and 2.
half apex
what happens if the flood wins
do they just die off because they converted everything and they having nothing left?
jolly furnace
Forerunners did let Flood thrive in some environments though to test their infection rate and how it acted and changed environments and spread. At least on some facilities. I dont think thats the case here though
violet notch
RE: dying off
No, they'll either find a way off-world by infecting a ship or something that can fly a ship. Or they'll go dormant and await something to come to them that they can infect to get off-world.
jolly furnace
Unless it was a test to gather data by a monitor or something and it backfired i dont think that happened here
Flood can sustain itself after a certain point in its growth
So it probably wouldn't die off if it succeeds in its ultimate goal
I remember reading in Mythos i think that the Flood after a certain point can literally conjure more biomass for itself out of the aether using Neural Physics
abstract venture
I think it says on its waypoint page that the flood can spontaneously create more flood mass
violet notch
There's also the possibility the Flood, given enough mass, could produce pods it can launch out of a planet's gravity, and attempt to send it to another infectable planet.
In the Metroid series. Specifically the Metroid Prime series. There's a living planet called Phaaze. The whole planet is one big organism. And to reproduce, it fires off a peice of itself called a Leviathan. Which is essentially a big meteor it just fires into space. Like how a fungus shoots out spores into the air to spread.
abstract venture
And looking at high Charity they created atleast millions of tons of it to cover the entire station in flood goop by Halo 3
jolly furnace
Yeah the Phaaaze on the Flood are similar
I dont know if the Flood used Neural Physics to spread over HC though. It used Precursor principles to modify the engines though
violet notch
The X Parasites from Metroid are also pretty similar to the Flood. Minus the pension for covering every inch of surface area with mass. They tend to stick to infecting animate lifeforms instead.
Phazon, however, is more like the Flood in that regard.
There's a lot of overlap in the lore of the two franchises when you break them down.
jolly furnace
I think Halo took some inspiration from Metroid
high gorge
Is Metroid even FPS?
terse lava
Some
violet notch
Ancient advanced civilization with a mix of benevolence and powerful war machines:
Metroid = Chozo
Halo = Forerunner
Extremely viral organism capable of wiping out all life, and with the ability to harness sentience and malice in the process:
Metroid = X Parasites
Halo = The Flood
The ancient civilization's response to the viral organism that is just as deadly if not more so than its intended target:
Metroid = The Metroids (which are heavily inspired by Giger's Aliens btw)
Halo = The Halo Array
The alien alliance of species bent on galactic domination and seek to utilize the weapons and tools left behind by the ancient race:
Metroid = The Space Pirates
Halo = The Covenant
The super human, given genetic and physical augmentations, years of training, and a powerful technologically advanced suit to combat the alien alliance, stop the usage of the ancient's weapons, as well as stop the viral organisms themselves:
Metroid = Samus Aran
Halo = Master Chief
high gorge
Looks pretty similar
violet notch
Obviously there are many differences. But boiled down to their simplest elements. They're pretty darn close.
versed helm
penus
terse lava
Mhm, although does this make Thel Ridley?
violet notch
Pre-Halo 2 Thel? Yes. He qualifies as the equivalent to Ridley. Commander of a significant fleet of the alien alliance (though not the top-most leader of them) in charge of the enemies faced by the super-human during their most famous mission(s) and responsible for many assaults on planets that were inhabited by the "good-guys".
Post-Halo 2 Thel teaming up with Chief? No, lol, that's not going to happen for Samus and Ridley. Too much bad blood. Samus and Ridley have a more personal adversarial relationship than Pre-Halo2 Thel had with Chief anyway.
terse lava
Well yea, I was talking of Thel while in the Covenant
high gorge
Halo vs Metroid?
last anchor
Equating I think.
cerulean mesa
Greetings my children
mighty nest
cerulean mesa
Yes they’re about equal I would say
cerulean mesa
Boo? Did you leave ecks server? I haven’t seen you around in a long time. I really miss you!
fair hazel
That’s not my name.
A long time ago I did.
cerulean mesa
Didn’t feel like typing everything out. It’s 4 am and ain’t nobody got time for that
humble yacht
I feel like Ridley could annihilate Thel
violet notch
Lol, well yeah, there's a significant size difference. Also Thel has a sense of honor in combat. Ridley has no such thing and has been known to fight dirty.
humble yacht
i'm talking about straight combat capability
ridley has the mobility advantage (and the high ground, lel)
ridley can tank massive amounts of damage. He's deadly at close range and has long range attacks that can take out a personal ship
I just don't see anything that Thel could do against him other than cloak and run
violet notch
Oh yeah, he's a powerhouse for sure. Not much in the Halo-verse could stand a chance in a 1-on-1 with Ridley.
In fact, maybe Diadact would be the only candidate. And size is not all that matters. Ridley could probably 1v1 a Scarab, and his mobility and fire breath alone could grant him a win.
humble yacht
and he has a penchant for not staying dead
violet notch
Lol, yeah, that too. He technically only dies at the end of Super Metroid. Prior to that there's a lot of stuff going on that obscures a confirmation.
humble yacht
don't really get how he went from Meta-Ridley back to normal, but w/e
unless he regrew his organic parts over time
violet notch
Holy crap that was a lot of typing that just got deleted.
I received an error about "prohibited text" wtf?
violet notch
I don't think there was profanity.
And I don't know what constitues as "light" profanity.
humble yacht
the first part of "damnation"
"light" profanity is profanity that a bunch of people don't consider all that bad
violet notch
I mean I don't know the list of words that would fall under that rather vague definition. Lol, and I'm not retyping all that. So I'll give the cliff notes version.
Tl;Dr;
The Phazon infection he had during Prime 3 Corruption helped accelerate his healing, and by Super Metroid, he no longer needed the mechanical upgrades to support him anymore, and they took some damage at the end of Samus Returns. So he simply sheds the armor, and is back to his old self again.
humble yacht
ok but how'd he get rid of the phazon poisoning?
violet notch
Samus absorbs it after the boss fight against him.
humble yacht
whoops
violet notch
Yeah, it doesn't do her any favors either.
Another point I was making that was deleted was that Ridley never "dies" at any point except at the end of Super Metroid. I even listed how that's possible with each encounter to that point. But I'll skip that this time and just say that you never really get any confirmation, there's always something that obscures him and/or Samus doesn't take the time to double-tap.
So it's not that he has a pension for not "staying dead". It's just that he's so resilient that he doesn't friggin die in the first place.
violet notch
lol, I meant to say "penchant"
humble yacht
if Prime 4 takes a risk and goes the route of a sequel to Fusion, rather than set before, we could see if ridley can come back from the true death in a different way
inb4 Phantom Ridley
violet notch
I doubt it. In Super Metroid, even in the limited capabilities of 16-bit graphics, you get a clear message he's dead this time. His 2D sprite animation shows him literally falling to pieces. His limbs detach from his body, and his head falls off. It's actually rather gruesome. His appearances in Other M and Fusion, Other M was a clone, and Fusion was an X Mimic that infected that clone's corpse. So they weren't actually Ridley himself.
humble yacht
maybe some residual phazon left in him kept his ethereal "essence" out there in some disembodied form.
just spitballing, a RIdley-less metroid universe just doesn't feel right
reef estuary
in the prime games he was shown as original regular ridley, meta ridley and omega ridley
violet notch
There's been a small number of Ridley-less Metroid games. The original Metroid 2 didn't have him, but that was retconned with Samus Returns.
@reef estuary he's never "original regular" Ridley in the Prime series. He's either Meta (the mechanical upgrades), or Omega (mechanical + Phazon).
reef estuary
im pretty sure that was what I saw in the air shaft on norion where samus encounters him in the game 😮
but maybe youre right
violet notch
There's an encounter at the start of Prime 3 Corruption, where he kinda looks like regular, but he's still titled Meta, and his scan indicates as such too. His 3D model could have illustrated it better, but alas, poor art choices aside, lore-wise that's still Meta Ridley
humble yacht
he's def meta in MP1
violet notch
Maybe his armor got a paint job that makes it look like it's his regular skin, rather than unpainted chrome?
Either way, that's still technically Meta Ridley you encounter.
humble yacht
tl;dr Thel don't stand a chance
violet notch
Lol, no. Getting back to the topic of comparing Halo lore with Metroid lore. That's one area of difference with that equivalency. Ridley is a far bigger beast than Thel.
reef estuary
Ridley is also supposedly impervious to conventional weapons yeah?
reef estuary
okay theory, arbiter wins against ridley once, 🙂
by luck or sheer cleverness, but then ridley comes back and takes a clean victory
violet notch
If he can get the jump on him, maybe. But that's the only chance he's got. Straight 1v1, he's toast.
violet notch
Ridley has no honor. He is a Pirate after all. They'd never follow him.
humble yacht
dino pirate
violet notch
The equivalency between Ridley and Thel only covers their role in the plots as commanders of the alien alliance's fleet.
humble yacht
he may have no honor but Jul managed to get a following of elites through less-than-honorable means
humble yacht
standard elite minor vs a standard Thebian space pirate. who wins?
violet notch
The Elite.
rank and file Pirates I would place somewhere between Jackals and Elites. Being better than Jackals, but not as good as Elites.
humble yacht
so if Ridley got his hands on an Elite army, that would be, like, bad
violet notch
oh yeah, very bad
reef estuary
just wanna note that space pirates can survive missiles unlike elites
violet notch
this is true
Samus' rockets don't have the same power as Halo's rocket launcher though. If I ranked them from worst to best:
Samus' standard missiles
Halo's rocket launcher
Samus' Super Missiles
humble yacht
i feel like one of samus's missiles is more like a Hydra missile from Halo
an elite can survive one hydra missle
violet notch
What really makes Samus OP, is that she can carry a dozen or so small nukes. 😐
humble yacht
power bombs use nuclear energy?
reef estuary
i just had an image of samus corkscrewing elites to death
I came in like a wrecking ball
she'd just one shot them like that
violet notch
They do give off tons of radiation
Other M has a line of dialog expression how dangerous they are.
reef estuary
yeah apparently they're so dangerous she wasn't allowed to use them until the end of the game where everyone wasdead
violet notch
They're very small though. Even the smallest man-made nuke, the original A Bombs are city sized. Samus' Power Bombs are a dozen or so square feet.
humble yacht
she wasn't allowed to use them
violet notch
Well there's a good reason.
It was a search and rescue mission.
You don't tend to want to rescue irradiated corpses.
reef estuary
wasn't a good reason for not being allowed to use the temperature shield of your varia suit in a lava zone 🙂
humble yacht
i know they always have to invent reasons for Samus to be weak at the start of the games, but having her get "authorization" for weapon usage from Adam was just insulting
violet notch
That... was forgameplay purposes. That's where a breakdown in communication between teh writers and the level designers came in. The level designers wanted to make a guantlet run. So the writers had to overlook a bit.
Nintendo's philosophy has always been gameplay first, story second. (accidental Enter key press)
violet notch
I feel like it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
Is it great? No. But suspend a little disbelief and squint a bit, and it's okay.
humble yacht
as far as games introducing negative qualities to stoic characters, H4 did a better job humanizing chief than Other M did for Samus
reef estuary
that and the unresolved serial killer plotline
violet notch
Could they have done better? Yes. But did they do as bad as everyone makes it out to be? No. I feel like a lot of the hate it gets is undeserved. It's not great, but it's not that bad either
reef estuary
that other M shown a spotlight on but never really resolved it
violet notch
The serial killer plot is resolved though.
We get a 1st person perspective of them encountering someone, but that someone is a crazy robot. Screen goes black. And we encounter his corpse on the ground later where the encounter took place.
It's also not a serial killer plot. He's an assassin. Not a psycho.
humble yacht
didnt Ridley clone kill the traitor?
violet notch
No.
violet notch
Crazy Robot lady with the Mother Brain's cerebral patterns killed him.
humble yacht
i only ever watched one playthrough of Other M
violet notch
I don't remember the order of events, but Ridley's not the one who killed the assassin.
reef estuary
yeah but thats not how you write a murder mystery, its extremely unsatisfying
humble yacht
you think the Halo array would kill X parasite mimics, or just destabilize them back to core X form?
reef estuary
if they have a spinal cord and exist as a complex being it would kill them
humble yacht
but a standard X parasite has no nervous system
violet notch
true
humble yacht
it just fakes one after infecting something
reef estuary
but I think creatures like the iing and metroids would be invulnerable to halo
violet notch
But I wasn't aware that the targets required a nervous system. Only "sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood."
humble yacht
Halo CE is the worst thing to cite for the function of the halos
subsequent fiction expanded greatly on how they work and what they do
violet notch
Which severely trivializes their awe in my opinion.
I liked it better when there was less explanations to everything.
humble yacht
there's a balance to be had
violet notch
Overexplanation sometimes just doesn't do the awe of the initial mystery justice.
humble yacht
too much ambiguity is unsatisfying
especially for people who enjoy the story and lore
reef estuary
"The burst possesses a harmonic frequency, which can be tuned to destroy the nervous system of any macroscopic organism that possesses one, even one as rudimentary as a notochord,"
I took this from the wiki
violet notch
"Super awe inspiring thingy!"
"Ooooooh!"
"But here's how it works, it's limitations, how it was built, it's favorite color, it's this, it does that, oh but it can't that, and blah blah blah..."
"Oh.........."
humble yacht
i kind of like it when otherwise godly things are brought down a peg
reef estuary
Im not really sure where explaining those things ruins the mystery
and what I mean is right throughout CE, the mystery is what is this ring world, right and you unravel that until you discover tis true purpose to wipe out the flood, and hows it do that, duh duh duuuuh, wipe out all sentient lfie
humble yacht
it's not like understanding how the halo works makes it any less effective
it still kills you and everyone you know, and everyone you don't know
reef estuary
its a weapon, it go boom, and thats really all thats important,
humble yacht
knowing that it doesn't kill plants or bacteria is hardly that big of a deal
violet notch
But the unraveling the mystery is what drew you into it in the first place. Once that mystery has been completely unraveled, then that which drew you in is no longer there. Basic logic.
violet notch
Then you suffer the issues of constant escalation.
At some point, it just gets to a rediculous degree.
humble yacht
it's either that or end the series
violet notch
Sometimes I prefer series to end. Wrapped up into a neat little bow.
humble yacht
though lateral moves are possible
new mysteries don't have to be vertically higher, they can be of the same scale as a previous one but just different
violet notch
That's what Metroid tends to do.
main rivet
In terms of escalation there's really only a full return of the Flood/Precursors as something of a huge enough jump there's no going back.
violet notch
There's rarely a power escalation in Metroid. Just a new previously unknown threat.
humble yacht
i don't want a full-scale return of precursors
main rivet
I wouldn't say Cortana and the rise of the Created is really raising stakes so much as just upsetting the status quo.
humble yacht
the Created represent a lateral move in stakes
rather than threatening life, she threatens freedom
some may argue it's a descalated threat, depending on whether you value life over freedom
violet notch
Found the quotes I was looking for:
"Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations; they're antithetical to the poetry of fear." - Stephen King
"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." - H.P. Lovecraft
Take out the focus on fear, and in its place apply the concept of the awe inspiring mystery, and those quotes still remain true.
humble yacht
i'd apply that to the flood, but not everything needs to be fear-inducing
violet notch
But the concept still applies to the awe inspiring charm of the Halos.
violet notch
Once it's been explained and dissected to a minute detail. It really loses its charm.
humble yacht
some of the greatest human achievements still inspire awe despite the fact that we know how they were done
violet notch
Heck, you even admitted that the concepts in the quotes I gave apply to the Flood. But even the Flood has been overexplained in my opinion. And frankly I find the explanation to be extremely lame!
keen canopy
The explanations we have for the Precursors/Flood are still incomplete, there's still enough mystery for it to be interesting I reckon
humble yacht
i agree that connecting the flood to the precursors made them lesser
i preferred the flood as a misunderstood organism just living its life
violet notch
Same. But I also preferred the Halos as mechanisms of unknowable scope and function.
They were more awe inspiring then.
keen canopy
Uh... When were they that?
humble yacht
well by that logic, Halo CE ruins them
keen canopy
For like, 4 levels or something?
violet notch
That's pretty fair. But it wasn't on the level they've been explored at this point.
humble yacht
343 GS explains enough about the halos in that game to reveal both their scope and function
keen canopy
T&R - Two Betrayals?
humble yacht
we know that one halo has a range of 20,000 lightyears, so that's a clearly defined scope
violet notch
Scope might have been a poor word choice.
But my point was, while okay, we got to know a bit about them, there was still an air of mystery and awe. But they were slowly overexplained to the point that all that mystery was taken away.
And again, this also applies to the Flood.
keen canopy
I think you have a great point if you were taking about the Forerunners as a whole
violet notch
Oh yeah, and them too.
keen canopy
But not the Halo Array
reef estuary
oh dont get me wrong i wasn't a fan of the flood explanation either upon hearing, its really bizaare, but I never really thought of the flood as some great mystery of the universe,
violet notch
My point is really about the Halo universe in general. All the great ancient mysteries were dissected into oblivion.
reef estuary
like who they were just didnt occur to me to be important
violet notch
This is all opinion of course.
reef estuary
naturally,
keen canopy
I think you're overestimating how much we know about the Forerunner Precursor War and Forerunner Flood war
We've seen small peeks, that's all
keen canopy
We still can't really be sure whether the flood are actually trying to consume the entire Milky Way, or if they'd like to test Humanity
reef estuary
im pretty sure they dont care if humanity survives or doesnt,
humanity has its odds stacked against it from the get go in the human-covenant war,
humble yacht
i hate that test theory
carmine sleet
It makes them seem like the Reapers from Mass Effect, which is not what the Flood should be like
reef estuary
ill be honest, reapers are actually scarier than the flood
violet notch
The original intent for the Reapers are far better than what they became in the end.
reef estuary
I think ME 3 had a story telling problem as opposed to a conceptual problem
keen canopy
The flood are what happens when you kill the gods, and they come back as monsters, and they're so embarrassed that their creation killed them, they're going to end all life
reef estuary
sounds actually kinda petty when you break it down
keen canopy
It's pretty cool I reckon. Better than it being a mystery forever. We already had 10 years of not knowing.
Oh it's pretty all right. They're arrogant , wouldn't you be if you were them?
violet notch
RE: Mass Effect Reapers
Originally they were ancient and immortal beings of unknown origin. There are setups in ME2 that were going to reveal that biological life always inevitably discover the reality bending biotics. But overuse of it would tear at the seams of reality. There's a whole side-quest where they're studying a star that's dying too quickly.
Originally these immortal beings known as Reapers would be forced to destroy civilizations that reached the point where their use of biotic powers threatened the very fabric of space-time. And for an otherwise immortal being, this was the only threat to their existence. And the cycle of harvesting was to stop this from happening.
I find that to be a far more powerful story than. We're basically an ancient form of Skynet.
lunar condor
The flood coming from the mystical precursors feels kind of meh to me. The whole point of the Precursors was that they wanted to protect all life but now they angwy cuz forerunners are mean so they will consume everyone. Nice Transcendental beings that get mad and destroy everything this easily. The explanation behind the flood feels rushed and incomplete to me. They are cool tho.
humble yacht
the precursors in general are meh
violet notch
I've already stated what I think of them.
humble yacht
i prefer things that are fallible
violet notch
Yet another example of the Halo universe's problem with constant escalation.
lunar condor
The whole Flood/Precursors thing feels more like a quick way to try to explain why we have space zombies because we put them in cuz it sounded nice but then it blew up and we had to explain it.
humble yacht
the forerunners were great because you had this faction that glorified them as dieties, but as the player you know they weren't
that dynamic was awesome
then greg bear goes and introduces actual gods
lunar condor
cthulu space gods that create invincible diseases
humble yacht
once again, I shake my fist at Bear
keen canopy
It wasn't biotics only by the way Ridley, it was all Mass Effect based technology. The Galaxy needs healthy stars for life to thrive, so the Reapers hit the reset button every 50k years to give the Galaxy time to heal. The lost life would be preserved in the form of a new Reaper. There are still problems with that idea though that I won't get in to. At the end of the day I prefer the Leviathans and the Cycle of Death backstory.
violet notch
Still better than "Le Ancient Skynet"
reef estuary
yeah, the relays, the citadel, etc all left behind on purpose, to develop every civ on the same line of technology, to one day be used by reapers,
that all tech is based on reaper tech
in fact the citadel itself is a mass relay,
keen canopy
I still hold that if you assume that the Precursors were conscious while in dust form
And orchestrated the whole thing as they went along
It's a terrifying and brilliant origin story for the Flood.
humble yacht
eh
keen canopy
If it was all some unfortunate accident, not so much.
humble yacht
i prefer the idea that it wasn't intended
that even the precursors weren't immune to time
keen canopy
Could well be both, as in the dust failed to restore themselves back into their original form due to corrupting over time
And they made the best of their situation
reef estuary
also i think reapers aren't like skynet, I think they're more like the old gods from lovecraft, in that they are alien, foreign, each unstoppable, drives people mad with their mere presence,
humble yacht
the reapers are more like thanos
elder gods didn't have rhyme or reason, they were just forces of nature
reapers take on the guise of something eldrich, but they're purpose actually has a degree of nobility to it
they maintain balance
violet notch
The Reapers are to the Leviathans in Mass Effect
What Skynet is to Humans in Terminator
reef estuary
and thats how the reapers would appear, you couldn't sway the reapers from just wiping you out,
the way the games were written before 3, you'd think there's nothing you can do except stall their return,
versed helm
just gonna leave The Brethren Moon outta this
reef estuary
the bretheren moons are beautiful pieces of cosmic horror
only problem comes when you want to resolve your narrative, which is something I dont think dead space will ever do,
humble yacht
brethren moons are interesting because they build up life only to consume it later
versed helm
Yeah EA scrapped visceral, I don’t think they’ll ever do more with Dead Space
humble yacht
it's less about balance and more about they hungry
reef estuary
maybe you could interpret ds 3 as everything died, but thats kinda lame,
versed helm
I mean, then there’s the DLC awakening that lets you watch and die 🙂
humble yacht
Brethren Moons are like selfish Reapers
versed helm
Demented space meatballs who want nothing but to consume, after all, They are many, They are hungry, They are coming.
humble yacht
my headcanon for DS4 would be that Isaac didn't die but went insane and became the new herald for the brethren moons. Ellie would be the new playable character and Isaac would periodically contact you through coms, taunting you, while you tried to find a way to save earth
versed helm
I don’t really know if the DS3: Awakening DLC ending should be counted as canon
humble yacht
it is
versed helm
Frick
DS4 would probably be the last struggle, or humanity just yeets outta there with some space ships
Wait, didn’t Carver die with Isaac? Or did he escape with Ellie?
humble yacht
carver and isaac stayed behind to fight the moon
reef estuary
they kinda just had like sharp pain and fainted as they arrived at earth I think 😮
where they saw the bretheren moons and then it went to credits
versed helm
So that would mean there could be like a combat scene between Isaac and Carver. Considering I doubt Carver going insane, dude’s already a wacko
humble yacht
there already is a combat scene between Carver and Isaac
reef estuary
they're both pretty broken in that regard
starting to lose their mind, at the influence of the markers picking at their minds,
versed helm
Yes, and then they just kinda vibe, I’m talking like mental confrontation or somebody dying
reef estuary
I suspect that DS4 would've had a ME3 esque ending where the protagonist is kinda beaten, sustained heavy injuries, but ultimately won, and put an end to it all something like that effect
reef estuary
but then DS3
versed helm
Minus the end it all
@versed helm
versed helm
? I was talking about DS2 but okay
humble yacht
I suspect that DS4 would've had a ME3 esque ending where the protagonist is kinda beaten, sustained heavy injuries, but ultimately won, and put an end to it all something like that effect
that's DS3's pre-DLC ending
Well, sort of
even then, there's still the knowledge of the rest of the network being out there, even if they didn't wake up
the DLC just confirms they woke up
versed helm
I mean, sort of but Tau Volantis is like nah, brain wake up time
humble yacht
DS2 has that post credits scene where the voice talks about other Marker sites, so you know its not over
versed helm
Since Isaac has the marker plans burned into his memory, doesn’t that mean he’s kinda high priority to the Moons?
humble yacht
only if they need him to make a marker
if they already found earth, they don't really need him. it depends on what they want to do
versed helm
He’s destroyed like 2 and made one by forceful torture/interrogation. I’d think they don’t really want him being alive, let alone anything being alive for too long
slim thorn
Everyone wants him because he got a blueprint that makes government and cult wanted it
While he can construct it, he can also destroy it.
versed helm
Just the Church of Unitology wanted the Marker plans, it’s their religion after all. The government was trying to you know, work around the weirdos
They just wanted to use the markers for energy if the Unitologists went through with construction
didnt the unis want the marker for the unification?
aka the great necromorph conversion?
im pretty sure the govt had a h e c k load of marker shippers
‘Twas also the government who distributed the Red Markers to the undisclosed restricted planets for safety purposes, the govt of Dead Space was a mixed bag
slim thorn
Yeah, it's easy for govt to get infiltrated by the cult. Besides, if those Necromorphs are facing The Flood, their defeat was already certain. Additionally, Flood Forms can "upgrade" itself like from Combat Form to Carrier Form to release more while Necromorphs requires Infector or Swarms to execute it.
versed helm
But you’re forgetting the conversion process of the markers. It converts any and all dead tissue into Necrotic tissue.
Don’t forget about subtypes like the Regenerator or the Ubermorph
Also, the flood is controlled by one mind, the Necromorphs however, are controlled by a network of galactic superintelligences
Plus massive conglomerates of necromorphs like the Tripod, Tormentor, and Hive Mind would be pretty difficult to get past, plus, the Flood need corpses or a living host to infect, necromorphs are in such bad shape they really couldn’t get taken over, or infected twice
Dang it now I want to see Necromorphs Vs The Flood
Good crap I just read up and holy smokes I’m a nerd with Dead Space
safe siren
Roanoke and Xperia made a video about Necro vs Floods
slim thorn
Necromorphs will have hard time because you know how The Flood do. They use their own very strength against them. Hijacking into Necromorph's mind network can be really a bountiful work for the Gravemind should the Logic Plague succed.
For the method of transportation, The Flood is certainly the most versatile one since they can use any ship with any drive to jump into the target, better and faster than Brethen moon. Rather, an Infector Pod can even infect Tripod or any else, making it more useful to combat other creatures. One creature, but the effect can be very plenty.
humble yacht
that assumes the gravemind's hive mind is stronger than the marker signal of the brethren moons
the Necros infect via some psionic signal, so they're arguably more transmissive than the flood, which require at least a spore
slim thorn
Yeah, but the process takes time but a spore can results in a very catastrophic ones in direct contact.
humble yacht
also the flood need to take the ships of another species to travel. Brethen Moons just launch black markers across space until they land somewhere, then the black markers influence evolution of intelligent species
marker signal is also very catastrophic, to both living and dead samples
slim thorn
Should the marker infiltrates high charity, they will be lost in speed from the flood since once the flood comes in, High Charity has fallen within days while Necromorphs could takes more time. Additionally, they need Brethen Moons while The Flood utilize every technology they can get for their own benefit.
humble yacht
necromorphs are more self sufficient than flood
versed helm
Only beings that were able to stop the Convergence event were the Tau Volantians, who froze their whole planet solid but were unable to kill the moon because the machine was unfinished
humble yacht
also a marker signal can reanimate dead bodies relatively quickly, but necromorphs also have infection forms to transmit the corruption even faster
if a marker landed in High Charity, it would drive someone insane enough to kill someone else (or themselves), then that dead body would reanimate and kill more people
slim thorn
Haven't seen the record Necromorphs survived on their own for thousand of years without being static or frozen.
humble yacht
high charity would still fall pretty quickly to necros
what flood form survived thousands of years outside of stasis?
slim thorn
Infection Form survived almost 100,000 years on containment
humble yacht
the alien necromporphs survived a very long time too
slim thorn
Yeah, but there are no records on them able to survive more than a thousand years without being frozen or static.
slim thorn
But they can still get their meals, right?
humble yacht
they dont need food
slim thorn
If the Flood takes over USG Ishimura, the ship was already grown the Flood biomass already and already left the orbit undetected.
humble yacht
i don't understand what you are trying to say
slim thorn
Necromorphs overrun the Ishimura but they can't do anything until someone initiate Convergence. If it was The Flood, Ishimura will be taken and utilized every ship's feature itself to attack where the ship came from.
humble yacht
it's entirely possible that the marker signal would drive someone to take the infected ishimura back to earth or other human space
or, the necros would just wait until people came looking for the ishimura
reef estuary
so right,
the flood are known in halo 4 and 5, by both covenant and humans for quite awhile,
so what kind contingencies do these two very different factions take against the flood?
reef estuary
yeah, the universe is doomed
slim thorn
But both share the same weakness, flame-based arsenals.
violet notch
When it comes to infection vs infection, the bottom line is which one would infect the other. Who would be the one infecting who? And once you answer that question, the rest is superfluous. Because the winning infection can simply piggy back off of the successes of the other one.
Take a cell from one and a cell from the other, and put them in the same petri dish. Whichever infection comes out on top is your victor. That little petri dish can extrapolate the results even on the galactic scale.
reef estuary
unless there's some kind of supercell adaption factor