Any named?
#lore-and-universe
stoic hamlet
last anchor
Nothing important no
keen canopy
How did a Gravemind form with no sentient life present?
@feral perch
All animals are sentient, you're probably thinking of sapiant
humble yacht
eh, not all animals are senient
keen canopy
The flood does need sentient life afaik, it couldn't build a gravemind out of plant matter and algae
Meh, a large majority are
feral perch
No, they’re not
Let’s go by Warfleet’s definitions, shall we?
I’ll go grab them
Sentient: “Low-order thinking life.”
keen canopy
The definition is "able to perceive or feel things"
feral perch
What proof do we have that animals think?
humble yacht
depends on the animal
obsidian thistle
Delta Halo also has a small mystery on who actually released the flood.
humble yacht
birds, for instance, communicate, socialize, exhibit emotion, feel pain, etc
crows and ravens problem solve
keen canopy
Many mammals and reptiles are able to display emotions
It's not something that's scientifically in doubt
So unless there's some lore that the flood require sapient life to build a gravemind, animals are perfectly sufficient
fair hazel
honestly i imagine they could do something but they might need a looot more of that type of biomass
keen canopy
Could be, but could easily make no difference at all. It's implied that the Precursors were able to make decisions based upon their surroundings while they were literally in dust form being studied by AH
midnight loom
das interesting
keen canopy
If they can think with literally no biomass, I don't see why 5000kgs of deers would be any different than 5000kgs of grunts, once it's all been flood supercell-ed
fair hazel
for the gravemind an neural network
jolly furnace
Yeah that Precursor powder was definitely waiting for the right time to strike I think
fair hazel
ive been watching some paramotor videos
and thinking about how to apply that to spartans..
keen canopy
Deer have perfectly capable complex neural systems
jolly furnace
Point is some animals are at least semi-sapient
None are fully sapient to our knowledge outside of us
At least to my knowledge
And if they are then they cant tell us
keen canopy
You mean sentient, right?
midnight loom
hopefully...
jolly furnace
If lower animals are sapient then they cant tell us which to me rules them out as sapient i would think
But some are least half-sapient
Am I wrong?
Like seriously tell me if I am. And why.
Cos I'm not an expert.
keen canopy
Sapience implies wisdom, deep understanding, thorough knowledge
Sentient is the word you're looking for, which is having capacity to perceive, to feel, to experience.
Many animals are sentient. Like the animals the flood were able to infect on the Infinite Succor for a Halo example.
fair hazel
So is no one up for the paramotor spartan idea?
stoic hamlet
The huh?
rustic canyon
the what
oh and since I am rereading the books slowly. In smoke and shadows. Little Bit is Guilty Spark right?
rustic canyon
okay good, I was wondering how he could have gotten there.... Rion just has a knack for finding things.
Kind of wish she would be in infinite or if we ever could get it Halo Wars 3
jolly furnace
I dont expect those characters n games
I imagine they'll finish their story in a book
after infinite
They need to explain GS's survival if he comes back in a game
After 13 plus years in real life
rustic canyon
I didn't expect the red vs blue guys to be in a halo game but they were there in 3. I agree that I wouldn't expect it but anything could be possible.
rustic canyon
yeah it was a cameo but I wouldn't expect Rion to be a major role if she was in. We are already losing the bulk of the mains from 5 wiith no more osiris. Though I hope they have blue team appear if you are doing the co-op
rustic canyon
likely called away by ONI, maybe we'll get lucky and they will steal the ancient human ship and bring it into the fight at the last moment to save the day
doubtful but can dream
keen canopy
ONI doesn't operate anymore, its leadership is in hiding, and its AIs are deactivated
It's basically just whatever ONI personnel are aboard Infinity that are active. Presumably Lasky and Dare are calling the shots for the resistance, with input from Halsey and John
jolly furnace
I don't know if an AH ship could withstand a Guardian pulse since they even affected forerunner tech
I'd love to see where those Precursor anchors in the Forerunner Saga sent ships to and back from resulting in the crews going insane if they were even still alive at all.
versed helm
So whatever became of Russia in the Halo universe?
violet notch
National distinctions from Earth have either been so blurred, they've become irrelevant, or have evolved into Planetary/Colony distinctions now.
stoic hamlet
There are still nations, but it’s basically super-states now.
versed helm
There's the URNA,the North Atlantic Protectorate,EAP,china,and the Greater Czechoslovakian Authority,and probably a few others
I like to know how the North Atlantic Protectorate and the Greater Czechoslovakian Authority even formed
violet notch
Lol, China is still just "China".
versed helm
nobody gave a heck about china
sour igloo
@versed helm what countries does EAP represent?
versed helm
I guess Kenya and Tanzania
sour igloo
😂😂
What about the middle East, western European countries, India and Brazil?
Are they represented or not?
versed helm
china
Calcutta is mentioned
wait
so india is now calcutta?
nice
Well the US, Canada and Mexico merged
Germany is still a thing
As for Brazil,there was that thing about how an Elite tried to destroy i think Rio de Janeiro with a nuke but was stopped by Fireteam Majestic
versed helm
Halopedia
last anchor
@versed helm I have a friend from Germany and he prounced it but I didnt get it recorrded (sad face)
Its NOT how it looks thats for sure
Also yes, the Rio Nuke Incident was post-Covenant War.
lunar condor
@versed helm type it into google translate in german and make it read it for you, it should give you a decent idea
versed helm
yeah
also
isnt mozambique glassed?
I thought the only glassed area of Earth was just Voi and its environs
Along with the area that the Portal was buried under
carmine sleet
They did only glass round that area
violet notch
And were it not for the Arbiter's council. They would have glassed the ENTIRE PLANET!
lone path
Thank you arbie
terse lava
I question how Rtas planned on glassing all of earth with what he had
lone path
Lots of time?
carmine sleet
He would've likely called for backup
jolly furnace
Wouldn't ramming a ship or anything at near-superluminal speed utterly wreck a planet if it impacted?
Or at even 1/3 light speed?
I wonder what max velocity of ships are under light speed in Halo verse
carmine sleet
The speed of light
jolly furnace
I said under
Not at light speed?
Ur not under light speed if ur actually going at light speed
In theory they could go 0.999% light speed
But i wonder what the highest known speed of a Halo ship seen so far not going at light speed or over
I mean if u go quick enough just, smash into a planet to wreck it if u really needed to
carmine sleet
I misread
violet notch
But isn't Slipspace technically another dimension? Would the ship even collide at all? Or just pass by?
terse lava
That's not something we know that can be done in slip space. You can come out of it close to a target sure, but exiting slipspace we see drains power for a few minutes, as FOR showed us with the covenant frigates
jolly furnace
Im talking under light speed meaning not in slipspace
Slipspace is needed to break the LS barrier from an outside POV
Inside the slipstream however i dont think the ship is actually going FTL or the LS barrier is far different in slipspace.
But then if it wasn't doing FTL in slipspace there'd be no need for the universe to correct causal paradoxes and issues that come with breaking LS barrier
jolly furnace
No idea. I would think they tried it.
carmine sleet
Almost every attempt by the UNSC to capture Covenant ships failed, it's possible they tried something like malware in one of their many attempts
terse lava
They did, was even given a name, Cortana
spiral jewel
I wonder what some of the names of the Arbiter's that came before Fal , As most of the Arbiter's are/went nameless, aside from Fal, Ripa and Thel .
(If that makes any sense)
keen canopy
Did they go nameless? I thought it was just that we haven't actually seen/heard about any other Arbiters
gilded mason
I think that's what he meant.
obsidian thistle
Most are nameless
I guess if you want to add non-canon to that list however.
●The Killer Instinct Arbiter is his own thing. IE a Character from the Halo inspired part of the Killer Instinct universe.
●The Halo Interactive Board Game Arbiter. Who served under the Prophet of Candor during the Battle of Jericho VII and the Fall of Reach. Non-canon due to the fact no Arbiter served during that period of time after Ripa.
dim roost
Wait a minute. You mean that Thel wasn't in KI?
obsidian thistle
Well its weird.
The Arbiter in KI is inspired by all the Arbiters. An algamation of them if you will
dim roost
That's what I thought.
obsidian thistle
But is his own character who does and recacts in his own way in the KI universe
Essentially Killer Instinct 2013 is weirdly the Microsoft cross-over verse.
gilded mason
That's pretty weird, considering his voice lines
obsidian thistle
In the KI universe. If we take the lines as is. Not taking any context from Halo mainline universe.
Then the events of the games happened without humans.
And the Arbiter of the KI universe still was a hero
gilded mason
It feels like it'd be infinitely less complicated to just say, "Thel makes a non-canonical appearance in Killer Instinct, where he can play dress-up and fight other dudes." No need to add unneeded complexity.
obsidian thistle
Would be if he didnt get unique dialogue in Shadow Lords to and from him. XD
Which is the main narrative he can join in on.
So like there is minor narrative tied to him.
gilded mason
Would be if he didnt get unique dialogue in Shadow Lords to and from him.
Do characters like Raam get the same treatment?
obsidian thistle
Raam gets it also. But he is considerably less indepth due to no map to tie him down.
Battle Toads weirdly explain themselves via Portals lol
gilded mason
They aren't from a serious series, so it makes sense
keen canopy
ye we've seen other Arbiters as Arbiters, but we don't know anything about their lives beforehand
terse lava
We dont even know their names outside of Ripa
fair hazel
well doesnt look like theres a lot of pickers for the spartan paramotor idea
torpid flare
Hello from April 10
torpid flare
🕋
keen adder
Is there anymore of humans and covenant living side by side
keen canopy
If by that you mean former Covenant species, yes there are many such occurrences post-war
inner basin
Well former Covenant and Humans were living on Gao in an unsteady peace, but that ultimately erupted into a battle so... eh. That’s the first example that came to mind. A more later example is Sanghelli and Humans living side by side on Trevelyan
carmine sleet
Carrow, they were living in cities on opposite sides of a desert for quite some time, but after the whole incident with the Sharquoi, they seem to be getting along with one another much better
inner basin
Carrow, okay that’s it. Gao was the only place I could remember the name for from that book so do forgive me for that
keen adder
Ok thanks for your knowledge
pure marlin
I dont remember the planet's name but I do remember human and covanant criminals living side by side.
notably, staffan sentzke father of the spartan 2, naomi 010
feral perch
Venezia
midnight loom
oh yeah.....
restive meadow
How do humans even use Covenant weapons
gilded mason
Yup
gilded mason
Same thing here
gilded mason
There are triggers on the models, at least the ones I looked at
midnight loom
hmm
restive meadow
Probably either a button to press and hold as a trigger
Or maybe hold the handle of the weapon tight and maybe it fires
Like the plasma rifle
midnight loom
yeah
carmine sleet
Covie weapons have triggers
gilded mason
Yeah
violet notch
So I find it fascinating that the tactical applications of Covenant weapons mirror pretty closely to human ones. They have grenades, tanks, snipers, automatic, semi-automatic, planes, rockets, etc, etc, even swords and sheilds. You would think that races that evolved their societies under vastly different circumstances would have developed weapons that would be as alien in design as their applications.
The only logical reasoning I could think of as to why the Covenant arsenal looks strangely familiar by human standards. Is that over the millenia of human weapons technologies, we were able to iron out what works and what doesn't, and what remains are what we discovered through experimentation to be tried and true designs and applications. And even another race on a completely other world, would have had the same process. And what works for us would just also work for them. A tried and true tactical design that works, just does. And that's the only explanation I can give as to why.
The real beyond the 4th wall reason, of course, is that the developers of the games didn't want to confuse the players by introducing something too drastically unconventional. And it wouldn't balance properly either.
last anchor
I mean, theres only so many ways you can kill something that has two legs, walks upright, has a head atop its body, and has fingers.
The fact that for the most part the Covenant races are bipedal and dexterous means that their combat style will match ours eventually.
Even then, as we see in Oblivion, their weapons may be familiar, but their tactics can be entirely different.
midnight loom
hmm
last anchor
Also remember that by the time we fight them in the games, they've been facing us for at least 5 years (since the earliest played encounters are in Halo Wars)
The Human-Covenant War went on for 27 years, thats more than enough time for a group even as calcified as the Covenant to start employing tactics to properly counter its foe.
Perhaps some of the weapons they used were intended for different purposes originally.
Also, the Sangheili have a pretty war-like society, so a lot of Covenant battle doctorine probably came from them. Again, they're bipedal, and invented swords.
last anchor
I think Ridly's idea that "what works works" is kind of on the dot there.
If a species evolves in a similar manner to humanity, becoming sentient, bipedal, and engaging in combat, then logic follows that the resulting evolution of weaponry would follow the same path.
Or at least a similar enough one.
midnight loom
well, we never really got burnblades
last anchor
Those came later for the Covenant, when they were further along than we are now.
They had already mastered space travel by the time that the San'Shyuum showed up
terse lava
No it didn't, existed before the covenant
midnight loom
🙂
last anchor
Im talking about first contact between the two races
the start of the war that lead to the Covenant. They had it then.
And at that point they were further along than humanity is.
midnight loom
yeah
last anchor
As for why we dont have them...probably never thought about it.
There's the alien mindset coming on. If someone in the military suggested making a sword that BURNED PEOPLE most would think he's crazy.
The Sangheili loved it though
midnight loom
haha! it worked great for them
terse lava
Ah yes, 850 BC we were still bronze age/eay iron age civilization
reef estuary
Well i mean theyd probably come back and tell him spears are better
terse lava
I love the idea myself too
terse lava
I wouldn't be surprised if burnspears were a thing too
last anchor
I think its more for cutting.
Also yes, the Sangheili most likely expanded burnblade tech beyond just handheld ones
reef estuary
I mean if sangheli were already sporting armour and energy shields at that point youre more for the penetration and range yeah?
terse lava
We do see a hint if that in the LVITIF, where there's a whole weapon rank of various plasma blade like weapons
last anchor
Ah here we go, burnblades were made on the moon of Qikost, so they were active by the time that the Sangheili had space travel.
midnight loom
ah...
last anchor
So they weren't THAT old.
Still
Anyway, I think the Covenant had different combat doctorines and weapon usages than what they have now before they met humanity.
When the Prophets threw the entire Covenant into the extermination of humanity, they went for what would work best, and that turned out to be a modification of humanity's own combat doctorines.
midnight loom
hmm
last anchor
And lets be real, if you invent a gun, you're gonna slowly get to a point where you have ones that are automatic and then semiautomatic, thats just how it be
midnight loom
wait, what?
terse lava
Actually wasnt only a small portion of the Covenant dedicated to the war?
gilded mason
Actually wasnt only a small portion of the Covenant dedicated to the war?```
Sounds familiarThe whole of the Covenant was involved, in some way, to our extermination. The revelation that humanity was related in any way to their gods, was the single largest threat to the Prophets' complete power dominance in the galaxy to that point.
Which is also why humanity wasn't offered a position to simply join the Covenant.
terse lava
I wouldn't say the whole of the Covenant
violet notch
We would have quickly upended their hierarchy.
carmine sleet
I remember it being hinted at in Halo Wars 1 that they were fighting on a war of two fronts but given that's the only time something like that was only hinted at, we don't know how much of the Covenant was doing what
gilded mason
Ah yes, the war effort was largely undertaken by the Ministry of Resolution.
terse lava
Yes, a single ministry
gilded mason
Ye
violet notch
I mean, indirect involvement is still involvement.
midnight loom
das tru
violet notch
Even worlds that were merely support structures for the Covenant as a whole counts.
midnight loom
cus they support it
gilded mason
Thanks for making that page by the way, Ado.
gilded mason
The Ministries
terse lava
I cant take credit for that, my version was....very bad until Bacon revamped it
gilded mason
lol
terse lava
So thank Bacon 😛
last anchor
The Banished are a thing, yes, but I dont think they were the PRIORITY
Humanity was still the biggest, baddest threat
terse lava
I assume there are other tier 2 civs out there that the covenant interact with
gilded mason
Who was talking about those Banished losers?
midnight loom
lols
terse lava
...I wonder if the Banished had sea shanties
reef estuary
I mean if the covenant is still somehow a unified faction,
I still wouldnt think humanity would be a big threat in general, given that humanity has lost so much territory over the years,
carmine sleet
The Covenant isn't a unified faction in the post war era, many of the different splinter groups are basically warlords trying to gain as much power as they can
violet notch
The thing that made us a threat was our relationship to their "gods". Their entire culture was a caste system based around their religion. And even though we didn't pose a threat in the competitve sense in terms of territory or military. We were a threat to their very way of life by just existing. At least the most threat to the Prophets, who stood to lose the most if the nature of our species were to become known.
stoic hamlet
Remember the Banished were basically irrelevant during the war
stoic hamlet
They were like some no-name warlord in Africa or some small scale cartel.
gilded mason
Ye
midnight loom
haha
reef estuary
in reality
the greatest threat to the covenant is the fragility and incompetence of their own leaders
fair hazel
The covenant lasted thousands of years
reef estuary
thats the surprising part
midnight loom
very
reef estuary
you know in halo CE i remember it being canon that a heirarch ordered the ships to stop firing at the autumn despite it being a perfectly good target,
gilded mason
And Thel would basically wrestle for control from him for the entire campaign
reef estuary
or lets not forget the betrayal of the elites, and there's a lot of wrong with betraying the elites at any point, especially suddenly,
i mean those guys command over half your ships, pretty much are your only tactical officers, because you know grunts, jackals, brutes, not great tacticians
debatably your best warriors, and I mean initially the hunters sided with them along, and its not as simple as replacing them because there's going to be a huge battle, right before your invasion of earth...
carmine sleet
It's also a big cultural shakeup to try and replace them in leadership positions they held for centuries with a race that only recently joined the Covenant
reef estuary
its honestly amazing the heirarchs weren't assassinated and almost eradicated at that point by the elites
terse lava
Kinda why Truth did it all in secret
Otherwise he would have been charged with heresy by the council
Whole reason he hit it off after Regret's death. Avoid the council putting in a new hierarch
midnight loom
makes sense
reef estuary
how is it even possible for the heirarchs to not notice
midnight loom
but mercy was left to die
gilded mason
Because Truth didn't care about Mercy as much as Mercy thought he did
midnight loom
oof lol
reef estuary
well thats exactly why the leadership system was weak 🙂
midnight loom
lol
stoic hamlet
The prior three before Truth, Regret and Mercy were pretty united, IIRC.
jolly furnace
What kind of tactcs did Covies use in Oblivion? How were they different?
Havent read the book yet
violet notch
Truth wanted the Brutes to be in control because they were easier for him to control.
Taking as many Elites out of power and replacing them with Brutes was just another way for him to gain more control. Because he knew the Brutes would be easier puppets, and do whatever he commanded blindly.
torpid flare
what are the symbols on the back of sangheili backs in halo ce
obsidian thistle
No idea
They have not been tied to any symbol. Due to CEA they have effectively been retconned out.
torpid flare
ok, thanks. man i wish there a reason why did the elites had a symbol, prehaps it is to show their status or something
violet notch
Marks aren't completely retconned out though. That particular symbol maybe, but the Arbiter was branded with "The Mark of Shame" at the beginning sequence of Halo 2.
Perhaps that mark isn't retconned out either. Just retconned out that they wore it on their armor specifically.
carmine sleet
Marks aren't completely retconned out though. That particular symbol maybe, but the Arbiter was branded with "The Mark of Shame" at the beginning sequence of Halo 2.
The Mark of Shame was seen in H2A being branded onto Thel, but that's not relevant to the symbol on the armour worn by Elites in CE
violet notch
Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out there's a possibility that the mark still may mean something since marks, in general, aren't retconned out. Merely that it's been retconned that they wore it on their armor.
reef estuary
it looks similar to the symbols you'd see in the structures of 343 guilty spark
reef estuary
they're probably forerunner symbols
violet notch
@obsidian thistle yeah, I know what you meant. My point is that I don't even think that the symbol was retconned out of the lore completely. Only that it no longer adorns their armor.
@reef estuary judging by the fact that their culture and religion are heavily based on mis-apprpriating the meaning of Forerunner relics. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Forerunner symbol. And the Elites gave it a meaning that they thought it was. Kinda like IRL religious iconography like the crucifix or pentagram.
Heck, I just realized that it's more like IRL iconography than I originally meant. The crucifix was originally a torture/execution device used by the Romans. And the pentagram was a pagan fertility symbol before the church morphed it into a satanic one.
So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it really is a Forerunner symbol.
But I doubt it means the same thing the Elites use it for.
reef estuary
I mean you see pretty similar symbols
in levels of forerunner archetecture as well as on their weaponry and armours,
like for example the plasma grenade, or a hunters, cannon arm
violet notch
It's funny to imagine them thinking it means something cool like honor, glory, or warriors. When it actually means something mundane to the Forerunner like turtle, blue, or chair.
midnight loom
haha!
carmine sleet
Jul: Didact, we have used this symbol for honour your people used many years ago
Didact: That's the symbol for turtles
reef estuary
turtles are cool though
terse lava
Fun little fact, forerunner warrior servants put their fingers over their brow and face as a.sign of shame. Sangheili did a similar thing which was considered ensign of great respect
neon reef
I was playing reach and I was thinking why haven’t there been a book about noble team
carmine sleet
They do kinda need something
neon reef
They have great personalities to have there own story
violet notch
I thought Jun had an appearance somewhere, post-Reach.
deep pewter
He does, he’s a part of the SIV program
humble yacht
To clarify, Jun is a recruiter for the Spartan IV program
jolly furnace
I mean Covies did misinterpret Forerunner symbols - one of the most important Reclaimer which kicked off the whole war.
They had the symbol upside down if im not mistaken.
jolly furnace
Yeah but i think they had th symbol upside down
hence why the got it wrong.
I could be mistaken
humble yacht
Doubtful since anytime they saw the glyph, it was right side up
jolly furnace
I seem to recall MB inverting the smybol in the book
humble yacht
It’s not like the forerunners left the glyph upside down for them
jolly furnace
when he said it was Reclaimer
Well its what i recall. As i said i could be wrong
Yep just read the passage
humble yacht
If that were true then it would be really stupid
jolly furnace
the glyph was the wrong way up
MB turned it upside down when saying it was actually reclaimer
humble yacht
That would mean some covenant scribe inverted the glyph themselves after seeing it for the first time
jolly furnace
Well someone screwed up
humble yacht
How they wouldn’t see it was upside down anytime they encountered the glyph on their search for artifacts is beyond me
God don’t leave glyphs upside down
humble yacht
Can’t say I like whoever wrote that in contact harvest
jolly furnace
and should have thought "huh the reclaimation glyph appears upside down on far more things then it does right side up" I wonder if that means anything
Like you think they'd cop on
Joseph Staten wrote contact harvest
humble yacht
Even he makes mistakes
jolly furnace
Don't know if it was a mistake
If it was - its never been fixed
But canonically the misreading of the glyph is cause it was the wrong way.
humble yacht
Mistake as in not a lot of critical thinking went into the passage
It sounds cool at first glance, but when you really think about it, the covenant shouldn’t have been so stupid as to not notice that they were reading it upside down
It’s not like they only had one source of forerunner glyphs
jolly furnace
I know but here we are.
humble yacht
Don’t have to like it
stoic hamlet
I mean, there’s precedent in history for that to occur.
Granted it usually happens with a new language or glyph, not a well documented one.
humble yacht
I could believe it if they’d found only one instance of the glyph in some state where orientation wasn’t clear
terse lava
i assume that may be the case
humble yacht
Doubt it. The covenant had been searching for forerunner stuff for thousands of years, and the other glyphs they adopted into their language were done so using the wrong orientation. Also, forerunner installations were largely intact across the galaxy, I’m sure they saw the reclaimer glyph multiple times in their thousands of years of searching for artifacts. How else would they know it was an important symbol?
terse lava
thats the thing though, do we even know how common the reclaimer glyph was?
versed helm
common enough for the covies to think it meant reclaim
humble yacht
Common enough that they thought it denoted important artifacts
jolly furnace
I would think the symbol in both forms (Bungie and 343i forms) and in the correct orientation showed up often given how important it was due to being used to designate humanity and humans were geas implanted to be able to access forerunner tech and the most important tech was locked out to any but humans. Also I would think security systems might use it when wanting Reclaimer confirmation.
Its not impossible for Covies to not know but its unlikely.
last anchor
Wouldnt be the first time misstranslations of dead languages and meanings have happened. See; "Ivan the Terrible"
humble yacht
interesting history lesson about Ivan, but I think that's an inherently different type of situation
with Ivan, modern historians simply used the english term that was closest to what the russian term was, but it doesn't 100% capture what they meant by Ivan the Terrible (because "Ivan, he who inspires terror" doesn't roll off the tongue in english)
it's not like some guy read Ivan's name upside down and translated it half-right due to that
full forge
So what mining Superintendent was on that datacore Rion lifted?
next delta
humble yacht
Reclaimer is a special type of inheritor
dim roost
So, the Chief is just assumed to have inherited Forerunner philosophy?
dim roost
Oh.
main rivet
All humans are inheritors, all inheritors are not reclaimers.
vital iron
What does being a reclaimer mean exactly?
stoic hamlet
You have an easier time accessing Forerunner relics. It doesn’t mean you’re smarter or anything, per se, nor does it mean an inheritor can’t do the same things a reclaimer can. just that a Reclaimer can do it far easier, like intuition.
vital iron
Reading The Flood and that seems to come up a bunch
Every time Chief interacts with a control panel, he seems to question how he knows what to, never able to really explain to cortana what he did.
vital iron
So chief, johnson, miranda
vital iron
Anders, fire team osiris among others
humble yacht
We don’t know if anyone on Osiris qualifies as a reclaimer
We’ve never seen them do reclaimer things
vital iron
They interact with forerunner stuff all the time yeah? I'm very unfamiliar with halo 5. I've only played it once.
humble yacht
No, they don’t really interact with forerunner stuff beyond shooting prometheans
vital iron
No switches to flip?
humble yacht
Nope
vital iron
How about flying phaetons?
humble yacht
That’s not something you need to be a reclaimer for
fair hazel
"access requires a more human touch" - Exuberant witness to Osiris
keen canopy
A reclaimer would certainly find it easier to pick up, but so might experienced UNSC veterans who have years of familiarity with Covenant tech. The UNSC had simulations for flying Phantoms for example.
vital iron
I'm guessing that's how Keyes flew a spirit too?
Is there a story out there where he flies one prior to halo ce?
vital iron
I know, was just curious it it came up anywhere.
primal kestrel
Any ideas on Shadows of Reach?
Do you guys think the Master Chief and Blue Team will encounter the Banished?
gilded mason
Nope
primal kestrel
Why not?
gilded mason
Because I don't like them, and so I prefer they don't.
primal kestrel
I mean the Covenant is finished.
Atriox said the Banished had a contract and thats why they are at the ark. What if Cortana was behind that
gilded mason
Therre's plenty of other post-Covenant factions to possibly encounter.
primal kestrel
since the ark's failsafe prevents her from accessing the ark
gilded mason
Atriox said the Banished had a contract
When was this?
primal kestrel
Halo Wars 2
gilded mason
Which part, I'm saying
primal kestrel
right after the Banished carrier was destroyed
Atriox said "One spartan did all this"
gilded mason
That was Let 'Volir talking about his contract to Atriox
primal kestrel
sorry my bad
keen canopy
Spirits are covenant tech
Reclaimer status doesn’t do anything for them
@humble yacht a lot of Covenant tech is still very heavily based on Forerunner tech
Which is why the Wraith felt "familiar" to Fred in First Strike
gilded mason
To be honest, the idea that Covie tech is so similar to Forerunner tech that the geas still does its thing...really doesn't sit well with me
primal kestrel
isn't that how the covenant formed?
keen canopy
There are a lot of things that aren't based upon it, like Plasma Rifles, Swords, Needlers
Ghosts and Wraiths however are. We see the San Shyuum using ghosts in their war against the Sangheili
and the aforementioned scene with Fred implies Wraiths are too
gilded mason
And even then, nothing the Covenant have even looks or behaves like the Forerunner stuff we see later on.
keen canopy
Of course, it's a crude imitation
Plus there's always the fact that the Forerunner empire was extremely vast and lasted a long time
Sentinels and enforcers tech etc doesn't look or behave like Promethean tech for example
terse lava
@keen canopy Curious, when was it said gohsts were used by the San Shyuum during the War of beginings?
keen canopy
It's depicted in H2 terminals IIRC
gilded mason
Looking through the H2A terminals at the moment, but I don't see it
keen canopy
ah turns out it's not a ghost, just uses the same ghost sound effect https://youtu.be/WIWnxqf4O6Q?t=621
could be similar tech
terse lava
uh..which point am I looking for? @keen canopy
keen canopy
my bad it's timestamped now lmao
terse lava
thanks ^_^
that just appears to be a small transport, nothing more
but man, I just love those ancient Covenant cutscenes
vital iron
I love the sangheili and their viking long ships.
reef estuary
Did the sangheili ever use primitive projectile weapons?
carmine sleet
Most likely in their equivalent of the stone age on Sanghelios
main rivet
Doesn't look like a Banished Seraph on the cover.
So I think it's unlikely we actually see them in the book.
inner basin
What business would the Banished have at Reach anyways?
main rivet
I suppose it's possible just given the timeframe means it's possible the Banished could make it back to the galaxy proper from the Ark without the portal.
But I just don't think theres much indication of why they'd be there.
inner basin
Well not all of the Banished’s forces are on the Ark
main rivet
The exact disposition of the Banished forces is weirdly sketchy.
Like obviously they didn't only have an assault carrier.
But we never see basically any other spacecraft?
inner basin
Well you wouldn’t deploy a lot of your forces to the Ark. They also likely weren’t expecting any resistance at the Ark either
inner basin
Guys who’s stronger IIs are IIIs. This guy is trying to tell me that IIs are better than IIIs in augmentations (I know they are equal btw)
main rivet
IIs are.
inner basin
They aren’t 🤦♂️
main rivet
IIIs were cheaper and didn't have the same level of augmentations.
inner basin
They are on par
They are cheaper because they have chemical augmentations not invasive augmentations like the IIs
And because of SPI in most cases
main rivet
Well, you're absolutely wrong, but you do you.
violet notch
2s were designed for higher quality
3s were designed for higher quantity
4s even more quantity
So, sorry, but you are wrong
gilded mason
I think the Field Manual said the two were almost equal, but that the II's Mjolnir gave them the edge.
inner basin
It was augmentations specifically
gilded mason
Yeah, I'm saying the Manual seemed to imply that without the armor, they were equalized.
inner basin
Okay thank you
main rivet
"almost their equal" being the key point.
humble yacht
if anything, the 3's augmentations were a step up
gilded mason
"Almost equal" taking the armor into consideration
main rivet
Their armor isn't discussed when that comparison is made.
inner basin
I did say augmentations specifically
main rivet
They are specifically talking about their training, knowledge, and combat skills in that sentence.
inner basin
Guys who’s stronger IIs are IIIs. This guy is trying to tell me that IIs are better than IIIs in augmentations (I know they are equal btw)
unique rune
I'm pretty sure most materials have said that the Spartan-III's augmentations were just effective as the Spartan-IIs, just with less... risk of dying.
humble yacht
3s were actually trained more intensely than 2s
inner basin
By a Spartan-II and the Spartan-II trainer funnily enough
humble yacht
Ackerman really wanted to one-up Halsey
inner basin
The typo “Ackerman” reminds me of Hackerman lol
humble yacht
people like to point to Buck's opinionated summarization of Spartan generations when comparing them as if it's the gold standard metric (it's not), where he calls Spartan IVs demigods, Spartan IIIs greek gods, and Spartan IIs titans
ironically though, the greek gods defeated and killed the titans
so what does that tell you?
carmine sleet
People also forget that Buck also isn't the most reliable narrator too
humble yacht
Hence my first sentence prefacing that
carmine sleet
Like, obviously he isn't going to outright lie to you, but I wouldn't say he gives the most unbiased view of the events, which you do mention
inner basin
Also to a Spartan like Buck, I’d imagine there is a lot of things from the previous Spartan generations that are classified to him (which should go without saying)
obsidian thistle
A note about the "New Blood" report.
As its all written by Buck. Any inaccuracies are based on his perspective or his knowledge of events.
And may be even be lies or coverups (unlikely cause that would make the story a lil worse in hindsight but you get the just)
We on Halopedia are looking into perspective and how that may not equal true fact.
humble yacht
3 ways to say the same thing
obsidian thistle
Well I went into the long way. But yea. Perspective bias be bad. XD
humble yacht
i think it's fine if Buck thinks that way. He's human; it'd be weird if he were completely objective
however, he shouldn't be cited as proof positive that the spartan generations are ranked 2 > 3 > 4 in terms of augmentation quality
obsidian thistle
Oh I agree.
stoic hamlet
I missed a Spartan III discussion?!?!?!? Noooooooo!
gilded mason
Was wondering where ya were
stoic hamlet
My senses have been dulled by the quarantine.
But yeah II’s and III’s are equal. The Field Manual mentions the only reason a II might beat out a III is combat experience, but then we also have implication (But nothing factual) that at least Fred considers a Gamma in SPI as strong as a II in MJOLNIR.
Also, depending on the II, a III would probably outclass them. (I.E, Red Team from Halo Wars vs any III, simply because by the time of H5 even the Gammas would have more combat experience than them.)
But that’s a special case, to clarify.
Actually, on the overall topic of Spartan Generations, has it been said how a IV is equal to a II/III in MJOLNIR? I could buy the strength stuff, but no one ever seems to factor in speed.
obsidian thistle
I would say S-IIIs are better trained. With the Gammas being the best. And the Deltas being the worst outta all the Spartan as a whole.
carmine sleet
I thought the Deltas weren't ever trained? Given that Ghosts of Onyx happened before they had the chance to train them
stoic hamlet
That’s the joke
gilded mason
Yeah
stoic hamlet
:p
carmine sleet
Ah, got ya
obsidian thistle
;)
carmine sleet
Honestly, I wish I was better at picking up jokes but that's not really something that we need to go into
inner basin
Who’s Tide?
carmine sleet
Someone who likes the S-IIIs
obsidian thistle
Halo Fanon peep xD
obsidian thistle
I wouldnt worry. The lore community be a vast place xD
inner basin
It is pretty large tbf
abstract venture
The 3s also gots better augmentations
feral perch
Debatable
humble yacht
better in that they provided the same benefits with essentially none of the risk
crimson steppe
what is the best order to read all of the books
gilded mason
Release order
crimson steppe
ok, thanks
gilded mason
Though using the latest editions of books
jolly furnace
I'd love some prequel halo games set in Human-forerunner era and sangheili san shyuum war era
or even san shyuum civil war era before that
crimson steppe
that would be fun
inner basin
In relation to the augmentation discussion, wasn’t it Jun who was almost crippled/killed (not sure which) by his augmentations. I mean even if so 1 III compared to the 42 IIs (crippled and dead) is still a massive leap
jolly furnace
Didnt they have to change the number cos the number of S2 candidates kept changing
inner basin
I thought it was 30 dead and 12 crippled if my memory serves me correctly
stoic hamlet
It needs to be said that that was the number given to the II’s, but most of the caskets were empty.
inner basin
Well the bodies likely weren’t ejected out to space
They were stored elsewhere for the possibility of resuscitation later down the line
At least this is me calling off of my memory
stoic hamlet
Yes, but the II’s assumes the bodies were inside.
inner basin
I sense black ink all over this
carmine sleet
Sorry, that was me, spilt ink all over the place
inner basin
Shakes head in disapproval
keen canopy
They wanted to give the IIs closure over their comrades
torpid flare
why did the elites hate jackals
feral perch
They didn't.
torpid flare
oh
inner basin
You may be thinking of how Jackals hate the Grunts and then it became vice versa
torpid flare
why did the jackals join the brutes in halo 2
inner basin
It is more complex than that. Not all Jackals sided with the Brutes or the Elites. It was more than they were following their leaders. In-game it was presented like that due to how confusing it would be if some Jackals were allies and some were hostile (but the latter sentence is from a gameplay standpoint)
gilded mason
Not all Jackals sided with the Brutes or the Elites.
Indeed
keen canopy
Well there's these two unused lines from H2 that suggests all the Jackals did initially side with the Brutes
Cortana: "The Jackals and Drones have declared themselves the servants of the Brutes. The Hunters have sworn allegiance to the Elites."
Cortana: "The Grunts seem to be neutral, or, at least afraid to announce which side they support. Except for Truth, the Prophets aren't saying a word.
mind you this is while the fighting is still going on. I can see other Jackals aboard Separatist-controlled ships going "Yea nevermind whatever our race's representatives said, we're with you Shipmaster"
inner basin
But then again that’s unused, so it could suggest that Bungie then scrapped that idea in the end
keen canopy
Indeed, it's certainly represented in gameplay though. There are no Jackals or Drones fighting alongside Elites. There are no Hunters fighting alongside Brutes.
inner basin
Well perhaps that couldn’t be reverted when they decided to scrap that idea
So it was more of a coincidence of what we experience in the games instead
violet notch
I thought I read somewhere that they did that for gameplay purposes. They wanted to make it easier for the player to determine friend from foe. If there were members of any or all races that were either side, it would cause a hesitation on the player's part, and break the pacing.
And they didn't have the excuse they had with the Heritics. As they at least had vastly different armor configurations which changed their silhouette just enough to mitigate the issue.
So for the sake of gameplay, alliances were split down racial lines. But we know that lore-wise, that's not the case. We even see Grunts allied with Elites in H5. Meanwhile we still fight Grunts ourselves from time to time. So no race was ever a monolith. Obviously, things are more complicated than that. Except for Elites vs. Brutes. That was pretty cut and dry.
Though that simplicity didn't last long when you encounter Jul's splinter group in H4.
And if you count the Banished as another player on the board, that also breaks the black-and-white aspect of Elites vs. Brutes because they still got along amongst the ranks of the Banished.
Tl;Dr; nothing is ever that simple.
Except when the devs cut corners for gameplay reasons.
keen canopy
Well yea Grunts were never specified to have been on one side or the other, IIRC we got confirmation from Bungie pretty early on that the Unggoy stayed with whoever was in charge of the ship they were on. Even on the gameplay side of things, there were going to be Unggoy Separatists in H3.
As things are now, it's canon that most Jackals and Drones sided with the Brutes, and most Hunters with the Elites, whether or not it was Staten's intention in H2, or just purely gameplay is irrelevant.
spice pulsar
Which is better, the MA5C or the MA5D?
shut steppe
grunt kill man
twin geyser
what difficulty is halo meant to be played on lore wise?
unique rune
No difficulty matches canon particularly well
The description for Heroic often says it's the way Halo is meant to be played, but that's less a statement of canonical accuracy and more just saying "for the intended gameplay experience", because Legendary can be an exercise in wanting to set your console on fire.
keen canopy
No Halo difficulty can accurately portray the lore
main rivet
Marines are way weaker than they should be, enemies are way more resilient, and ally damage output is really off.
I've generally liked Normal as the "real" difficulty though just because it gives you the sense of actually being a super-powered human, and it also makes it easier to pay attention to the story and dialogue.
The difficulty varies so much from game to game too though.
I can do ODST and CE Legendary and I enjoy myself. Whereas I only touch H2 and Reach legendary for the achievements and then never again 😛
keen canopy
Spartan movements in combat have been described as too fast for the human eye to track, plasma bolts boil the air around them, so even near misses inflict third-degree burns. Plasma can boil through concrete, Marine BDU and Mjolnir.
Wraith Mortars flash-incinerate anything within twenty meters of the impact, and create a wave of fire that travels outwards from the killzone, which can cause sustain burns, heat trauma, and a wave of concussive force that can splinter bones and destroy vital organs.
main rivet
Plasma weapons are also much slower in game for balance reasons.
last anchor
They also do a lot less damage to flesh
stoic hamlet
No difficulty can come close to the universe as presented in the lore.
And people need to stop trying to make one of the difficulty levels work. It’s not possible.
fair hazel
very much indeed. i see that way too much
versed helm
Chief in lore: survives fall from ridiculous height
Chief In gameplay: dies from 20 ft fall
spice pulsar
Or goes 2 meters into water.
versed helm
carmine sleet
Or drives for miles under the water like in CE on Silent Cartographer
versed helm
This reminds me
spice pulsar
Many many kilometers/miles
versed helm
In that same level
Bruh what
Message deleted
Anyway, crouching into the deepest water sometimes gets you stuck and can't stand back up, at certain angle shooting the shotgun obliterates you
It's funny as hell
reef estuary
I mean i think you'd find almost everything presented in game is completely different in the book
carmine sleet
Indeed
versed helm
Noble 6: Falls onto a planet from space and survives
Also Noble 6: Slips and falls down a staircase. dies
sudden juniper
favourite spartan ii go
carmine sleet
Kelly-087
versed helm
Linda for me
inner basin
Jai-006
keen canopy
Jerome over here
inner basin
Gotta go with one the defactos, eh?
violet notch
Chief has air-tight armor that can survive the vacuum of space.
But drowns in 10 feet of water. Oh but only if it's not the Halo 2 cutscenes where he jumps in a lake.
carmine sleet
Gameplay =/= canon
violet notch
Here's something that may be a little break from the ideas of this channel, but nonetheless will be using universe lore to approach this.
Get ready for an eyerollingly nerdy question that'll sound straight from middle school playgrounds.
In a one on one fight, with all their arsenals available (within reason). Who would win in a fight?
Samus Aran of the Metroid series?
or
Master Chief of the Halo series?
I've asked this one before in other communities. But I've never been able to ask it to specifically a Halo community. So I'd like to see where this goes with the different perspective.
violet notch
I missed it ☹️
carmine sleet
It was a few months ago I believe
violet notch
I just joined this server the other day. Sorry.
violet notch
Ah! An opinion!
Do explain good sir.🙂
humble yacht
Samus has far more advanced tech
inner basin
I mean it’s not really a fair fight, is it? That’s like asking who would win in a fight, a modern day commando with all of their weaponry they can use available compared to a commando in the future with all of their weaponry they can use available. Maybe a lame comparison, but it does convey my point
inner basin
But one’s more futuristic
humble yacht
AFAIK, Metroid doesn’t have a defined time period
violet notch
It doesn't. There's a pseudo "star date" system with no translation to an actual year.
inner basin
It’s likely substantially more advanced than the 2500s
humble yacht
Maybe, but there are a lot of similarities between the states of both universes. Both have space faring human races that have interstellar travel
The Federation haven’t exhibited anything particularly more powerful than what the UNSC has
The chozo share a lot of similarities with the forerunners
Though I don’t think the chozo developed galaxy-killing weaponry
inner basin
Just because their universes are in similar states, doesn’t necessarily mean that they are taking place around the same time period
Especially if you take into consideration world building too, and events that have happened throughout their respective universes
humble yacht
Sure, but if your concern is about the fairness of the comparison then time setting doesn’t always determine degree of technological advancement
Hell, destiny is farther in the future than halo and they’re technologically behind where they were in the past
inner basin
Due to events that happened in that game... Okay, I see your point more clearly now
humble yacht
Samus’s abilities aren’t necessarily beyond the scope of the Hali universe as a whole, just beyond the scope of Chief
Didact would likely be a much more evenly matched opponent to Samus
Maybe even surpass her
Kind of hard to get around constraint fields
inner basin
I mean his “force-like” abilities would definitely help
humble yacht
So it’s not like the Metroid universe kicks the halo universe’s butt. Samus just kicks chief’s butt
Comparing Metroid to halo is a lot fairer than comparing halo to warhammer 40k, for instance
inner basin
Oh I know. I’ve seen the comparison videos for that
violet notch
The Chozo didn't have galaxy destroying weaponry, mainly because the Metroid series equivalent to the Flood, called X Parasites, were discovered by the Chozo early. And they not only contained the threat before it got out of hand, but they were advanced enough to bio-engineer a natural predator for it in the form of the titular Metroids. So they may have been advanced enough to make a galactic weapon, they just never had the same reason to because of their quick action, and ability to come to an alternate solution.
humble yacht
Well, one could argue that the Metroids were more dangerous than the X themselves
Nigh indestructible, evolving, mass producible
Samus is kind of the only reason the metroids aren’t threatening her galaxy
inner basin
I was gonna say it kinda sounds like the Sharquoi in Halo if they weren’t controlled, considering how the Sharquoi don’t really think for themselves
violet notch
The X had potential for Sapience, similar to how the Flood develops it. The Metroids, while deadly, were only ever anamilistic in nature. Smart animals, but only driven on instinct. In that regard, the X were a far greater threat. So the Chozo created something that was threatening enough to handle the X, but far less threatening as a whole.
humble yacht
Maybe on their own, but people were constantly trying to use the metroids for their own gain
A Metroid army in the hands of the federation or the space pirates would be terrible
violet notch
Not to mention, it'd be fair to say that the Halo Rings could also be considered to be more dangerous than the Flood. The differences in these is their nature as a threat, so it's sometimes hard to make a claim which is more threatening quantifiably.
humble yacht
Halo rings are certainly more dangerous in function than the flood
But they’re a tool, halos don’t go killing on their own
violet notch
That's true.
humble yacht
A Metroid may be a dumb animal but it can still act on its own
violet notch
But it's easy to make the parallel that the Metroids are the same way. Without a space faring race to transport them to another world, they would've stayed on SR388. Even if a space faring race visited SR388, the Metroids wouldn't be able to take over their ship and fly it. The Flood could do that.
humble yacht
I suppose
violet notch
We're also comparing Apples, Oranges, Bannanas, and Strawberries too. Lol.
humble yacht
Different kinds of dangers to be sure
violet notch
The threats in the X and the Flood are nearly identical in nature. But the difference in solutions between the Halo array and the Metroids are vastly different in nature.
violet notch
The Metroid threat is more akin to the Xenomorph/Aliens. I mean, they were the inspiration for Metroids after all. And they had their limitations on what they could/would do. It's only because of Weyland Yutani and the Yautja that they posed a threat outside their natural habitat(s).
It's basically like how ONI were using prisoners for experiments on the Flood.
Anything could be dangerous in the wrong hands.
versed helm
Not to sound rude or annoying but i have never been more intrigued over a conversation between two people
reef estuary
ironically though
id think the metroids would be harder to contain
and least in the early stages as the flood are heavily constrained by limited mobility and numbers in its early stages,
tranquil junco
i have never seen two people have a debate this interesting
crimson steppe
ok, hear me out, Flood, Metroids, Blacklight, and Reapers, given 100 years of constant propogation, which would be the hardest to fight back against
round comet
id say the flood
crimson steppe
oh hi caboose
round comet
hello!
crimson steppe
why the flood
round comet
see
the flood is generally parasitic in nature
metroids are more predator-ish
a single flood spore can eliminate an entire continent
tfor me, the parasites are superior to the metroids
and when you say 'reapers' i assume yoou are talking about mass effect.
i dont think reapers would prove to be as difficult as the flood, or even the metroids
and most of all, the flood and the gravemind might be really ugly but they are really really intelligent
the gravemind is like the smartest being in existence
keen canopy
Hmm, not necessarily.
Silentium:
However, not even the Gravemind could fully access or comprehend the wisdom the Precursors once had, flawed and fallen as it was.
And Warfleet:
Precursors:
Eldest of the sapient minds in the Milky Way. They had infinite forms, many voices, and singular purpose. The realms they grew and the life they crafted continue on, though they themselves have sunk to unreachable depths.
Seem to imply the Flood are quite clearly below the Precursors.
round comet
alright yes
i forgot about the precursors
i mean like they were basically gods even for the forerunners
keen canopy
I meant the Flood didn't inherit all of the Precursor's knowledge and wisdom
round comet
but back to my point, a super advanced species like the forerunners wasnt able to wipe out the flood, and ended up comitting suicide in an attempt to eliminate any flood hosts and managing to CONTAIN the flood, not eliminate them.
the forerunners had decided that the ONLY way to eliminate them was an indirect method, kill their food
reef estuary
when you really look at the floods capabilities, you kinda think maybe the writers handicapped the precursors so that we have more lore to talk about
crimson steppe
ok, honestly that is some good insight, how about with the parasyte from dead space
reef estuary
the necromorphs are the result of a signal, that is pretty much unseen
the necromorphs themselves only serve as obstacles to stop isaac in the game, but the actual enemies are the blackmarkers that psychologically as well as physically twist living beings into mutant monsters,
round comet
@crimson steppe the necromorphs from dead space are quite similar to the flood.
crimson steppe
i know, but there are some differences which is why i brought it up
reef estuary
its a differnt type of threat, its more of a threat that comes within, that preys on the weakness of reliance on power
round comet
see, the necromorphs might be very similar to the flood, but they dont have an intelligent being like the gravemind basicaly 'leading' them.
so yeah i would say that the flood is more difficult to fight against.
crimson steppe
oh definitely but masterchief encountered the flood in an earlier stage of it's development
round comet
well the chief has always been lucky, thats one point
but, he never really did what the forerunners couldnt right?
the forerunners managed to contain the flood
and the chief managed to destroy one of those containment-galacticsuperweapon thingies
and he frankly found it very difficult to do so, in the books i mean
reef estuary
thats probably something that'll never get explained
why use the halo rings as a containment facility?
reef estuary
like if you activate the halo rings then everyone who could've studied the flood is basically dead
round comet
ohh
crimson steppe
they did the same on humans in the palace of pain
round comet
ok i guess that makes sense
crimson steppe
but that was during the forunnerflood war
and it was later continued because both faber and mendicant bias were corrupted by the logic plague
round comet
was this mentioned in the books?
keen canopy
Not leaving behind Flood specimens for Humanity to study and develop technology/measures against would've been a colossal mistake, as the Forerunners knew the Flood was intergalactic, their return was inevitable.
Guilty Spark said that the outbreaks made him question this decision, but I still hold that even if the Flood were THIS close to taking over the galaxy during H2/3, the current universe is much more prepared for an intergalactic flood-invasion than if they had 0 firsthand evidence of the threat the Flood posed.
As for using the Halo Installations, what better place?
keen canopy
I mean the alternative would be simply leaving behind information and details about the flood
But I doubt the galaxy would take the threat as seriously as it does currently
The Covenant had contingencies and strategies for dealing with Flood, and they didn't cause a single disastrous outbreak in their entire history
The UNSC had strict contingencies as well
If the Flood did invade again from outside the galaxy, you definitely wouldn't see a repeat of the Forerunner-Ancient Humanity war.
reef estuary
yeah id imagine that both sides would have things like ships built with features like energy barriers, electric fields, armoured personel to prevent infection forms, burn dead bodies,
there's super weapons, radiation, automated turrets and drones which basically means you can send those in instead of marines or covenant which risks adding to their numbers
fair hazel
I’m not into Metroid as much so. That’s not my preferred fight
Halo and Star Wars are fun pit against
versed helm
i guess yeah
quite a few similarities in the two
like the energy based melee weaponry
inner basin
Didact using the force lol
versed helm
Darth Didact
inner basin
*Master Didact
violet notch
The Flood equivalent from the Metroid series isn't the Metroids. It's the X. A parasitic gelatinous lifeform that robs the host of it's DNA, it's biomass, and even it's memories. Hell, the only real difference is that the X don't go out of their way to cover as much surface area as they can with blobs of biomass, they stick to creating mobile forms.
The equivalent to the Metroids is the Halo array. The solution to stop the X. Though it's a super predator, not a galactic weapon.
@reef estuary and @crimson steppe in response to your earlier discussion.
carmine sleet
Did you just really say that an organism designed to kill the X is the equivalent to a super weapon that can be used to wipe out the entire galaxy?
violet notch
Lol, only equivalent from the narrative angle.
carmine sleet
Ok, that makes more sense
violet notch
But the Flood and the X are equivalent in far more than just their role in the narrative. Even their M.O. is practically identical.
inner basin
Did you just really say that an organism designed to kill the X is the equivalent to a super weapon that can be used to wipe out the entire galaxy?
*The equivalent to a hula hoop that can be used to wipe out the entire galaxy of life
reef estuary
well I mean metroids were the solution to parasite X in the metroid universe
humble yacht
The X parasites don't have a hivemind, that is a difference
and unlike the flood, they copy their prey and only mutate in dire scenarios
the X are more stealthy than the flood
violet notch
You're absolutely right. In fact that probably makes the X worse than the Flood in that regard. They're not so visually obvious if they don't want to be.
main rivet
I always find it kind of funny that people are repeatedly fooled into getting close to the Flood (Mona Lisa, etc.) when combat forms look pretty dire and like you mulched a person.
violet notch
The Flood infection doesn't rely entirely on its combat forms to spread, not really. The combat forms are mainly for eliminating and rendering any forceful resistance incapacitated, should there be any. No, the bulk of the infections occur passively in the form of spores or actively in the form of the Infection Forms. Only rarely is it spread by a combat form.
humble yacht
mona lisa established that flood infection can occur from scratches and bites, which is a little too close to zombie lore for my tastes. however, this transmission is still quite dubious because the novel the Flood has an infection form pierce Chief's skin with a tendril, trying to get to his spine, but Cortana shocks it to death before it can. But based on Mona Lisa, that scratch should have infected him
violet notch
Combat forms can be carrying spores on their skin. And that would cause a bite or scratch to spread the infection. But in the rather immature outbreak on Installation 04, there probably wasn't that many spores being produced to guarantee that yet.
humble yacht
it's never stated that's the nature of transmission for a bite/scratch, even if it would be logical. but pod infectors could just as easily carry spores on their tendrils and such that could have been deposited in chief's blood stream after that scratch
while large infestations are the ones that start producing spore clouds, even small infestations would have spores or free super cells on the forms themselves
violet notch
But there's still a plausible deniability in it though.
violet notch
Lol, no not "clean". But less, what's a good word... virile.
humble yacht
i don't buy itof
sounds like a pretty major stretch to justify the inconsistencies of transmission between different works of fiction
violet notch
In fairness. It is at its core, an inconsistency, I completely agree. But it's still not impossible to explain away with a little headcanoning. It's always a failing of long-lasting fictional franchises to stumble on minor inconsistencies like this.
reef estuary
I mean originally halo wasn't really about its deep realistic lore
when they made the game they went with what made the game look and sound cool
humble yacht
most games are like that
well, older games were certainly like that for initial installments
violet notch
The biggest and most glaring inconsistency of the franchise is in H:CE Cortana confirms from the Covenant Battlenet that the Covenant knew that Halo was a weapon. But in the very next game, the idea of that is completely revolutionary to them.
humble yacht
i dunno, maybe a greater inconsistency is that cortana said Halo doesn't kill flood directly in CE, yet by 3 that was soundly retconned
reef estuary
ofc we're not going to talk about how she can hack the covenant battle net wirelessly from the armour of a space marine, when their ships are far away
humble yacht
well earlier in the game, she discovered that the covies were broadcasting on unencrypted channels
violet notch
He was on the Ship, lol. Plus, they broadcast their signals, which she could intercept.
humble yacht
she probably backdoored into the battlenet through the radio channels
reef estuary
yes because spartans are also equipped to pick up covenant signals 🙂
humble yacht
signal's a signal
violet notch
I still think the Covenant knowing, then not knowing, that Halo was a weapon, is a bigger deal. Especially given how much that drives their particular role in the plot.
reef estuary
dont even mention how keyes overheard the guard talking about halo
violet notch
The only way to excuse it would be to headcanon explain it that they thought they were being hyperbolic.
But even that's really shaky.
inner basin
When you think about it, without that info Cortana wouldn’t of known that the Covenant were looking for Halo’s control center
humble yacht
if sangheili could learn english, then i'm sure some humans picked up basic sangheili
reef estuary
yes lets talk about super important thingy in front of humans who dont even know what it is,
we'll take the chance they have no idea what we're saying,
inner basin
Well they likely thought they (the humans) would never get out
humble yacht
that's a common trope
reef estuary
but it is a plot hole
violet notch
Well, low level guards probably aren't as thoughtful about security like a commander would be.
humble yacht
not really a plot hole
violet notch
Just because it's contrived doesn't make it a plot hole.
reef estuary
sangheili lives in a strict military culture lore wise
humble yacht
guards get bored just standing around watch prisoners
reef estuary
for them to do so is a break of character in out itself
humble yacht
boredom leads to lapses in judgement
inner basin
I mean when you think about it, the Covenant weren’t exactly sure what a Halo was at that time
reef estuary
well the heirarch on T&R knew it was important
otherwise lore wise autumn be big boom in sky with chief inside
violet notch
That's a little element in my idea that maybe they thought that calling it aweapon, and saying it "controls the fate of the galaxy" was them thinking that they were being hyperbolic about its function. Not knowing how accidentally accurate it is.
reef estuary
neh its just the developers not having enough time to make another level and just have keyes tell chief what halo is,
humble yacht
it's possible that Keyes didn't translate what the guards were saying correctly
maybe what he thought was "weapon" was something more akin to what would ultimately be Halo's religious significance to the Covenant
reef estuary
I still think the idea of him understanding sangheili is absurd
violet notch
But it was Cortana that said they were calling it a weapon.
humble yacht
i thought cortana said the "he who controls halo controls the fate of the universe" line
violet notch
That was Keyes
Lol, I need to rewatch that cutscene again but I'm 95% sure you accidentally got it backwards.
reef estuary
at least if it was cortana you could argue she can translate really fast
humble yacht
sure, i had it backwards
so in that regard, the guards didn't reveal anything too critical in their chat while on duty
they just referred to the ring as "Halo" and said that controlling it would mean victory for the covenant
then cortana fills in the extra info by hacking the battlenet
also, iirc, in Fall of Reach, cortana gobbled up a covenant AI. maybe from that, she learned how to remote access covenant battlenet
feral perch
That was First Strike, not Fall of Reach
terse lava
remember the Covenant battlenet said "some kind of weapon" prior to actually finding a halo they had no real knowledge the ringworlds were weapons, Outside of a few archived records. They mostly thought halos were only tools to activate the great journey. We know the Covenant had been there before the POA arrived, even had time to study the ring. It makes sense that they would start finding out halo had the qualities of a weapon
versed helm
What do you guys think of Halsey?
deep pewter
One of my favorite characters
gilded mason
A complex person that has done heinous actions over the years in the belief of the greater good. I enjoyed seeing her grow from that former mindset.
terse lava
^^^
gilded mason
lol
violet notch
Unpopular Opinion: I thought the Halo Legends episode The Duel was actually pretty good. Anyone familiar with traditionalist Japanese Samurai stories will find the inspirations in the episode. Hell, if you're just familiar with Anime, you'll see it as Anime tends to draw from the same inspiration.
gilded mason
anime bad
terse lava
How's that unpopular? I found the duel enjoyable too
violet notch
Even the strange choice in art style is supposed to invoke images of traditional Japanese paintings.
terse lava
Yea
I have only one complaint about the duel..ok 2
-
I want to know if Fal literally took on a covenant army on his own or if that was later embellished.
-
Why the hierarch didnt choose a better route then "kill his wife"
He seemed an oddly reasonable hierarch compared to the ones we know
gilded mason
In addition to that:
- Making Sangheili facial structure sometimes look...very human.
- Reinforcing a lot of fans' perceptions that the Sangheili are "Japanese".
terse lava
That I utterly shrugged off as art
gilded mason
Yeah, though still a complaint of mine since people still ask about it even to this day.
terse lava
Although I can see them easily moving their mandibles in a way as was shown in the duel when talking to humans
Yea true
humble yacht
@terse lava in the future, let's refrain from that sort of "joke" that you made earlier
fair hazel
I liked the duel for its water painting visuals
crimson steppe
is there anyone that is currently alive from the orion project
carmine sleet
As of 2559, unknown
crimson steppe
i think the idea of a remnant of it talking to chief would be cool
like them talking to chief and both of them just mourning or trying to heal at the end of everything, especially if cortana fully dies or gets destroyed
gilded mason
Feels kinda cheesy.
versed helm
nahhhh.....not that good an idea
carmine sleet
Chief doesn't really have much of a connection to Orion outside of Johnson being one of them, but even then, it wouldn't make much sense to see Chief and some guy he never knew sitting down and talking
gilded mason
And I don't think John would reallt care if- yeah
carmine sleet
You were going to say something similar to what I said, weren't you
gilded mason
Ye
versed helm
chief isnt a talking kinda guy
carmine sleet
He's more of a silently brooding or a "Thought I'd shoot my way out, mix things up a little" (If he's in enemy territory) type of guy
crimson steppe
true, but i am talking of a connection he would have to johnson, someone he seemed to actually care about, plus we have been seeing more of just how mentally scarred chief is since halo 4 and 5, not to mention how he is likely gonna need some major deprogramming and someone he has a connection to, even loosely is better than someone like halsey
i am not saying it is a great idea, i am saying it is a good possibility for showing this character finally healing after what has been done to him.
carmine sleet
Nobody's against the idea of Chief mentally healing, just that bringing in an Orion to "assist" wouldn't really make sense
crimson steppe
I get that, I said as much. I was thinking of a possible connection to another, either that or the members of blue team
Especially with how chief is gonna have to face some major trauma separating from them and landing in the middle of space for the start of infinite
terse lava
Why would he suffer major trauma from separating from them? It could easily be that they were ordered on different missions
crimson steppe
it could very well be true for that but with him being randomly floating in the middle of space, that is the vibe i got
terse lava
Maybe the rest were vaporized/composed
crimson steppe
which would be traumatic
just saying
like depending on whom they use, it can be really awesome or just kinda boring
keen canopy
Uh, about the Flood on I04 not being able to infect via lacerations, Bungie definitely implied that they could around the time of the Halo Graphic Novel, and that was well before Mona Lisa
humble yacht
and yet, chief wasn't infected
keen canopy
Indeed, perhaps the electric current that fried the infection form also cooked the spores
humble yacht
dubious
keen canopy
It's not as bad as Cortana dectecting flood cells inside Johnson's nervous system lol
Despite him not being immune
It almost seems like Bungie weren't on the same page as the EU authors or something 🤔
carmine sleet
They weren't
humble yacht
Even I detected the sarcasm there
carmine sleet
I have a problem with detecting sarcasm in general
humble yacht
You should search for the animation “mr literal” by egoraptor
tropic pewter
Anyone know the name of that flying thing in Halo reach?
In New Alexandria, it cries
carmine sleet
You mean the floaty squids?
tropic pewter
Ah that must be it, thanks
carmine sleet
Aye, the Huragok are adorable and deserve all the love
deep pewter
I want to see more of their personalities in game
carmine sleet
So long as we get one that's super aggressive and carrying a magnum that's nicknamed "The Huraglock"
tropic pewter
Now I feel bad for never following the story of ODST as a kid
I'll have to wait for the PC release, to play it as a story
deep pewter
Now you’re making me want Sometimes Sinks in a game
stoic hamlet
Huragok are the bestest floaty bois
inner basin
Their little faces always make me smile. Poor things were tortured by the Brutes
fair hazel
Voridus's huragoks too..
golden basin
where does noble 6 rank in best spartan? 2nd behind master chief?
deep pewter
We have no way of placing him against other Spartans
keen canopy
John isn't even the "best" Spartan, that would be Fred or arguably Linda.
Spartan-B312 was pretty insane though, I'd place him above John in terms of pure skill, though John has experience and physical strength on him.
deep pewter
All we have are vague statements regarding B312, I wouldn’t exactly use them as hard quantifiers
keen canopy
We have the fact that he has a distinguished service history as a solo operative, and his feats in Reach's campaign
Obviously you're right in that we have no way of definitively ranking Spartans against each other, but we can speculate using the info we have
fair hazel
Uh I dont see how he supposedly is more
jolly furnace
B-312?
Or is that Noble 6 from Reach
Not much difference between him and John I think
Less strength by N6 compared to John going by the scenes where both get tackled by an Elite
keen canopy
Obviously, again, I'm not claiming B312 is more skilled than John @fair hazel
All I'm saying is that's my interpretation of the info we have. The IIIs had better augmentations and training, and Noble Six was honed to be a solo operative, and had years of experience in that role, whereas John expressed discomfort at fighting without his Spartans in Halo: The Flood, in 2552.
fair hazel
And yet he was able to accomplish so much
keen canopy
So? Someone else being more skilled than John doesn't mean John isn't skilled
John wasn't even the most skilled II as you're no doubt aware of
fair hazel
Linda. I really dont interpret him being said as supposedly more skilled.
keen canopy
That's completely fair yo, but what John accomplished is still irrelevant to what I said.
And I would go for Fred personally, but it's irrelevant, the fact is that there were plenty of Spartan IIs more skilled than John
Doesn't mean they could have accomplished what he accomplished
I don't even think B312 would have succeeded in John's place
Nor Fred potentially
jolly furnace
John has luck
Thats why he's special
Or he has Precursors neural physically helping him in the background. But probably not.
keen canopy
It's neither, people miss the entire point of the whole "Luck" thing in my opinion. The entire time it's been about John making his own luck.
John tracked the coin with his eye, and grabbed it at the right time. He made his own luck.
And the feats that should've gotten him killed described in TFoR, he succeeded because he wasn't thinking about failure. He identifies what needs to be done and he executes.
this is a great write up for example https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/d0qv6y/wanna_know_what_chiefs_unique_spartan_trait_is/
midnight loom
hmm
he does say in himself in legends, we make our own luck
but he does have gees helping him
keen canopy
That's fan theory, nothing more.
midnight loom
like, the forerunner plan genetic.. thingy?
keen canopy
All spartans have the geas, and many regular humans too.
dim roost
he does say in himself in legends, we make our own luck
@midnight loom I think we'll see an example of that logic being put into effect in Infinite.
keen canopy
John's Geas has not been implied to be special in any way.
keen canopy
There is no activation, they all have it, they have had it forever
midnight loom
and it was all planned for him to have cortana
keen canopy
It wasn't
midnight loom
hmm
keen canopy
The Librarian wasn't talking about John specifically, she was speaking of Spartans and Smart AI in general.
fair hazel
they just fit the roles
midnight loom
ah.
keen canopy
Unfortunately, some Halo youtubers have spread a lot of misinformation on this subject.
midnight loom
haha
hmm
so its gene regulation
but... much more advanced
hmph. most of it fits science yet doesnt.
eh
itsa game after all
keen canopy
The Geas has been established to vary in "pitch" and "presence", which is interesting. It does imply that not all humans have the Reclaimer geas, and among those that do have it, it can vary
midnight loom
i think spartan augumentations give them reclaimer
keen canopy
Nah it's not that.
Halsey's genetic screening of Spartan-II candidates appears to have accidently identified the geas.
midnight loom
ah
so im just having a cause and effect logic loop error. or wutever they called it
keen canopy
As in, all the people that fit her strict requirements, also had the geas.
keen canopy
He was candidate #117 on Halsey's list
He just happened to be the first candidate Halsey visited in person and marked for kidnapping.
keen canopy
that many candidates
They weren't all abducted, she didn't have the funding
So she had to visit them in person and narrow down the field.
If I'm remembering correctly.
Everything you wanna know is here https://www.halopedia.org/SPARTAN-II_program
keen canopy
is what the official explanation sorry?
midnight loom
that he was the 117th canidate.
keen canopy
yea lol, that's how all of the Spartans got their numbers
Did you mean the real world explanation? That's here:
John-117 was originally named by Eric Trautmann as a reference to the biblical verse Revelation 1:17, which reads as follows according to the New Revised Standard Version of the text: "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he placed his right hand on me, saying, 'Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last'."[283] The author of this biblical text names himself "John" within it. According to Trautmann, this identifier was a the origin of one of many "huge fights" between himself and Bungie concerning ideas which came out of the writing sessions of the Halo Story Bible, a work originally constructed by he, Brannon Boren, and Matt Soell.[283]
midnight loom
aaaah. ok