You also have to remember that these things are designed on the rule of cool and gameplay balancing
#lore-and-universe
unique rune
reef estuary
ofc thats naturally how it is,
covenant should also consider adding doors or shielding to stop their pilot from being flying kicked out of a ghost
or even seatbelts
fair hazel
You can aim up and down..
And. The ghosts are also designed that way for honour reasons
unique rune
Its remarkable mobility, excellent speed, and effective firepower are only offset by the open cockpit, which naturally places the operator at risk--though ONI believes this was intentional, and reflects a quirk of Sangheili psychology.
reef estuary
yeah i suppose its the same reason why the sangheli use energy swords and not energy lances
round comet
honour and glory blah blah blah;
reef estuary
kinda makes you wonder how they survive as a species or even culturally
all it takes for a clan to win a war is to ignore their concept of honour and abuse that weakness
round comet
the covenant basically started and lost the war because they were led by a bunch of religious boomers
reef estuary
lol
like why dont you just turn off your energy shields cause the humans dont have shields, just armour, and thus you'd be ona more even playing field with them 
that'd be pretty honourable right?
round comet
i suppose it was like a tradition
like the mandolarian type of stuff
never remove the helmet
"this is the way"
reef estuary
i mean at least there, there's some sense of how it came to be,
that when it comes to war time, it won't simply cost lives and resources that were otherwise avoidable,
round comet
i think they consider dying an honourable thing, if it is in battle
we've seen how the covenant and the prophets arent afraid of wasting lives
tHe gReAt jOurNeY wAiTs fOr nO-oNe
terse lava
Well you also have to remember during the war the Covenant viewed humans the same way we view a house full of cockroaches
hard hemlock
Hey everyone
terse lava
Greetings
hard hemlock
How's it going
terse lava
Doin ok you?
gilded mason
kek = lol
gilded mason
In my opinion, no.
terse lava
Its...not the best trilogy of books in the franchise but it's all a matter of opinion.
gilded mason
And much of the aspects introduced in it have gone by the wayside
hard hemlock
I thought it was kinda wierd so far tbh
versed helm
and a kinda important-ish chunk of lore
gilded mason
At this point, it's not that important
hard hemlock
I feel obligated lol
terse lava
Well one side you have cloak and dagger stuff for those who like it. On the other hand you have claims that she sangheili cant even build a barn post war
gilded mason
And that they were only warriors and that basically all of the other species left. And that they can't swim.
hard hemlock
I just read the cant swim part today 😂
gilded mason
That has since been retconned.
hard hemlock
Something about the story makes it feel out of place. Maybe its just the writers style idk
terse lava
In a nutshell while Karen wrote the wonderful short story, "Human Weakness," she didnt not so full research on the lore for the trilogy
hard hemlock
I'm kinda picky when I read books.
gilded mason
Somebody said before that it feels very "tory". Or maybe "British".
hard hemlock
I saw something about her not doing research
terse lava
Correct
hard hemlock
I literally had to look her up because the book threw me off
terse lava
Alright
gilded mason
Just keep in mind that some things that it introduces haven't been exactly been followed afterward
hard hemlock
That's a good thing right?
terse lava
Depends, they did keep the idea of plasma torpedoes being physical objects now rather then balls of pure plasma
Such an idea didnt exist before then books
gilded mason
That's a good thing right?```
Mostly, yeahyou would be better off reading the forerunner trilogy
terse lava
Or broken circle
round comet
yes but the forerruners are way better than the covenant
fair hazel
Read it. Cor@ your own opinion.
Form your own opinion
“Such idée didn’t exist before the books”. Or it did and it was put in that book for the public. First.
terse lava
Ok I will rephrase it. To the fans, the idea of physical plasma torpedoes was.not known or hinted at prior to the books.
hard hemlock
Ive read the forerunner trilogy. It was awesome. I like greg bear as an author. I'm happy he wrote a halo trilogy.
I read a lot of space themed books. Greg bear is one of my favorite.
obsidian thistle
So glad I am getting the 2014 edition of Silentium this month
Aka the edition with Rebirth in it
keen canopy
terse lava
Making me jealous @obsidian thistle
obsidian thistle
😉
spiral jewel
Stupid question: are the Banished and the crew of the SOF genuinely unaware of the Created's existence or were things explained at some point?
obsidian thistle
Well thats weird atm.
Some visuals would suggest that there is "some" knowledge of the going ons. But
carmine sleet
The Banished are more likely to be aware
spiral jewel
For the SOF, I can understand them not being aware of the Create but for the Banished I feel like things are vague
obsidian thistle
Those visuals could be outdated or just an op Atriox planned and never got to do.
spiral jewel
Probably
last anchor
The SOF definently doesnt know. Isabel wouldnt be able to tell them cause the portal got shut off.
The Banished...depends on how far Cortana's message reached.
fair hazel
The banished probably went to the ark because of the created.
gilded mason
Nah. Banished got there on November 25. Cortana revealed herself on October 28
fair hazel
Maybe they got there somehow fast. Because... had Cortana not acted and the portal not shut off, then the UNSC could have just called a lot of reinforcements and undo the banished.
gilded mason
Maybe Atriox just didn't think about that or was too arrogant to care.
fair hazel
I don’t think he’d do such a thing as not think about it. Or not care.
feral perch
He probably planned to shut down the portal on the Ark’s side
And prevent reinforcements that way
gilded mason
Another probable explanation
feral perch
There’s no known way to access the Ark besides the portal on Earth and the long route
rose coral
speaking of that earth portal what did the UNSC and ONI do with the portal after halo 3?
carmine sleet
Fixed it, used it, studied it
rose coral
Fixed it huh?
what I think is more interesting is the fact that oni was able to cover up any trace of the flood on earth
like how was nobody able to snap a picture
carmine sleet
Most civilians who were in the facility which you fight through in Voi during Halo 3 were killed by the Flood. Marines that survived were likely given a debrief where they were told to never repeat what they saw on the ground that day
bright briar
And if anyone else was close enough to take a picture, they'd most likely be running for their life instead.
rose coral
usually during a disaster like that somebody would try to be the first to post on twitter about it lol
there had to be one hypebeast who was vlogging during the flood invasion
guys if you want me to survive make sure we hit 10000 likes
carmine sleet
That's assuming that the culture surrounding people doing that somehow lives on for 500 years
rose coral
id imagine they got even worse
really makes you think what life is like as a citizen in the halo universe
knowing so little about the extent of whats really happening in the galaxy
jolly furnace
One thing I find odd bout the Composer is that Forerunners had other ways to extract consciouness/essences and put them into new bodies before the Composers concept was ever thought of if I remember right.
And those methods actually worked
So why not just use those methods.
We also knew they could reproduce entire individuals from DNA/RNA/Silicon samples
gilded mason
Forerunners had other ways to extract consciouness/essences and put them into new bodies before the Composers concept was ever thought of
Remember what those methods were?
humble yacht
might be referring to geas implantation
jolly furnace
No I don't think it was the Geas thing
full forge
jolly furnace
I just remember mentions or references to other means of essence extraction and imprinting in cloned bodies from earlier sources in Halo lore before the FS books
Or implied.
The Bestarium for one makes mention of reproducing people from DNA
via cloning obviously
Also Monitors existing before Composer
s
Those Ancillae had to made somehow before Composers
So they clearly had other methods of copying or transferring essences to other vessels
humble yacht
non-monitor ancilla were just AI
jolly furnace
As is Cortana
humble yacht
not all forerunner AI were made from a person
jolly furnace
and she's retains consciousness and memories of Halsey
humble yacht
humans also have dumb AI like Auntie Dot
jolly furnace
Basically the forerunners had means of extracting essences before composers
jolly furnace
so why not use those methods
humble yacht
still waiting for that source
humble yacht
that's not proof because you are assuming all AI are made using living people
jolly furnace
that had to be done via methods similar or identical to SMart AI
humble yacht
no, it didn't
jolly furnace
It clearly implies it mate
humble yacht
it doesn't
jolly furnace
I doubt humans have a better method than forerunners for AI creation
gilded mason
Perhaps it's only things that use Composer tech that allow true consciousness transferrals, instead of just copies.
humble yacht
but forerunners had tech that humans don't. they had knowledge humans don't. assuming forerunners didn't think of a way to make AI beyond the limitations of human smart AI is shortsighted
how did they copy Didact's essence without the composer?
because Ur Didact was still alive and kicking despite Iso-Didact being made
jolly furnace
Methods of full pattern extraction and transfer without Composers described there
These didn't have the issues that Composers did.
The transfer and quantum foam-based storage[12] of mental content were ubiquitous in Forerunner society. The computing systems of the personal armor worn by virtually all Forerunners were integrated with the wearer's mind to such an extent that the Forerunner's consciousness virtually occupied the armor alongside their organic brain. The armor's dedicated AI construct—ancilla—was likewise melded with the wearer's mind and aided them in the organization of memories and other tasks. As an emergency measure, the armor could delete memories and experiences deemed excessively traumatic, or even "reset" the wearer's personality to its normal state in the event of external tampering with their brain.[13] In the rare event of the wearer's death, the armor would preserve the consciousness—or the final impressions of it—which would then traditionally be collected and placed into an "imprint matrix" known as a Durance.[14][15]
Also their armor could essentially store their entire consciousness alongside their physical brains doing it
Point is they had other methods outside composers
why use composers
knowing the risks of them
What made the composer so special.
Its barely understood neural physics method?
humble yacht
composers were originally designed to upload dying forerunners into the Domain, achieving a sort of immortality
later they were used in a failed attempt to undo flood corruption
jolly furnace
Forerunners eseentially had immortality in armor
if not killed
Forerunners could reproduce entire people from DNA/RNA/silicon samples anyway
No need for composers for that
gilded mason
composers were originally designed to upload dying forerunners into the Domain
Pretty sure they were originally for transferring to a digital form, and then putting that essense back into a healthy biological body full of vigor.
jolly furnace
Again just clone a person from theri DNA
and put the essence back into via another method
humble yacht
According to the original design, the Composer would allow old Forerunners to transfer their essences into younger bodies or directly into the Domain's vast realms of information.
jolly furnace
Librarian even mentions this in Silentium
humble yacht
we both right
gilded mason
The issue was true consciousness transferral, I imagine
jolly furnace
I dont think forerunners could stimulate true consiciousness. If i remember that Forerunners words from Promies to Keep correctly
They didn't even think Precursors could do it
torpid flare
I will complete uprising while betraying the elites
jolly furnace
Ok Virus u do that
torpid flare
on legendart
gilded mason
I dont think forerunners could stimulate true consiciousness. If i remember that Forerunners words from Promies to Keep correctly
I meant so that it's not simply a twin or copy that gets to enjoy eternity, but they themselves.
jolly furnace
Seems to be a copy though
Given Lord of Admirals shows up in Silentium
and he's not the one from Chakas
Seems he was copied after extraction
Which would make sense
Why put essences into one person when you can put the same essence in many people at once
Or copy them to ensure they survive if their hosts all die out
humble yacht
Forthencho was composed
jolly furnace
Yeah he was
And another version of him outside 343GS shows in Silentium
thus I assume he was copied before he was uploaded to GS343 with Chakas
Be harder to get Forthencho's essence seperated afterwards I think
humble yacht
his essence was removed from chakas once
jolly furnace
Easier to store him elsewhere as a copy then uplaod him and chaks into monitor
gilded mason
Didn't the Primordial or MB do that, or something, which made Chakas require to beomce a monitor in the first place?
jolly furnace
Well either way there's a copy of him in Silentium
MB did i think
Or was Primy when he stabbed Chakas
Cos Forthencho's essence was still in the monitor in Primordium aswell
So the one in Silentium had to be a copy of him found elsewhere
gilded mason
So mind transferred to Chakas -> Forth copied by MB for himself
jolly furnace
Cos the composed essences were to be interagated for 1000s of years aswell as put into living humans for geas
Yeah i think so Ostral
Or it was done before that
Either he was copied
at some point
Also this is an odd thing: In Halo: Escalation Issue 9, the monitor 859 Static Carillon indicates that the human essences composed in New Phoenix are being "added to the whole" in accordance with the original design for the Composer, introducing fear, rage, and confusion. This implies that composed patterns are uploaded to a central intelligence, though whether this applies solely to the Promethean Knights or to all who undergo composition is unclear. Nonetheless, the notion of composed essences being incorporated into a gestalt mind is not mentioned in prior media.
What's this about?
No mention of this prior to this instance.
humble yacht
composed essences were sent to the Composer's Abyss for storage
where they stayed until being transferred to a Knight frame
jolly furnace
But that just seems for storage
What the monitor is saying implies a gesalt intelligence or something
I dont' know.
jolly furnace
I swear they keep changing or retconning Composer intentions as they go
humble yacht
¯_(ツ)_/¯
jolly furnace
First its one device. then its many devices. then its to save flood victims by restoring them to new bodies. then its give old forerunners young bodies via clones and imprinting. then its immortality via domain uploading. make up ur minds 343i.
humble yacht
i think greg bear was the one who added extra stuff to the Composer's usage
in H4, it's usage was pretty concrete
humble yacht
giving the Composer an origin where it was built isn't that far fetched
which is what escalation did
jolly furnace
Waypoint has the old Forerunners to be given new young bodies explanation
humble yacht
those entries were added after H4 came out
humble yacht
when you give someone a license to use your material, you kind of agree to accept what they come up with, so long as it's satisfactory work
343 didn't tell Greg Bear how to write the Forerunner Trilogy
he likely got limited source material and came up with his own ideas based off that
jolly furnace
Also they don't need Composers for Domain uploading either. We've seen it done without them
Long before Composers existed
I would expect 343i to oversee his writing of the trilogy. Heck he delayed Silentium to make it mesh better with H4
But then I also expect 343i to oversee any book being written. Cough Traviss trilogy cough
And ensure it doesn't violate canon before publishing it
humble yacht
there's oversight and then there's micromanaging
jolly furnace
Well in the latter trilogy they should have done better
humble yacht
sounds like you just don't like Kilo 5
deep pewter
Kilo-V is great
jolly furnace
I like some stuff in it
Not most of it. Too many canon contradictions and characters acting ooc for my liking.
deep pewter
What contradictions?
jolly furnace
Even Halopedia e-interprets that trilogy to its own liking
Alot Nathan
Look em up on Halopedia. there's a list there
deep pewter
That’s no good for a discussion
jolly furnace
I can't name them all off top of my head
deep pewter
I’m sure you have some big ones
remote field
well for one oni/parangosky apparently knowing nothing of the cloning of spartan candidates. she knew
Brought that back
I don't know of any contradictions either tbh, at least any massive ones that make me cringe
deep pewter
I never found that too unbelievable, especially considering the size and scope of the Spartan II program
jolly furnace
All there.
Now granted some have been rectified by the 2019 edition I think
Others not
Some could be explained via various means but until those explanations are made canon or given a canon explanation they remain an inconsistancy or contradiction with another source.
Most fans and Halopedia itself consider most of these to be ONI propaganda in-universe to make Halsey a scapegoat for their own actions or actions that both her and they were involved in together but shifting most of the blame to her
This would explain away many issues but not all of them.
deep pewter
A lot of these are incredibly small inconsistencies that don’t effect the overall narrative
jolly furnace
Some literally can't explained away without retconning in later edition of the books or newer works
Still alot inconsistancies which shouldn't be there quite frankly. 343I should have done a better job on it
This seems like a case of 343I just letting Traviss do her thing.
She's well known for changing canon or characters in books she writes for franchises.
Pretty sure she went on record about it once.
deep pewter
Seems like this should stop you from enjoying all Halo novels given the massive list Halopedia keeps that include basically every issue across basically all of the Halo books
jolly furnace
No but that trilogy has too many for my liking.
Forerunner Saga has issues within it aswell. But most of them have been explained since.
Or retconned away.
obsidian thistle
Some errors were more spelling errors in the og copies that the 2019 editions fixed lol
Some errors werent fixed however
jolly furnace
Which books? Forerunner saga or traviss trilogy?
obsidian thistle
Kilo-5 mostly. A lot of minor fixes were finally pushed in the 2019 edition
simple locust
So who is the Proto-Gravemind in origins part 2 that Thel is looking at? It appears to be a prophet so could it be Regret, the Minister of Tranquility or another one?
obsidian thistle
Origins is not an accurate depiction of events. More a tldr with interpretations of stuff from a semi-Rampant cortana.
humble yacht
much of Legends is not accurately depicted
Halsey was not a young woman during Operation Warm Blanket
obsidian thistle
Origins is just the worst offender
simple locust
I know but is it intended represent a specific Prophet?
Also where do the Prophet beams shoot from? What parts of the chair contribute to firing?
obsidian thistle
Tbh the best way to ask it is. How do you interpret it? Cause Origins outside being a great primer is meant to be interpreted.
To use Animatrix comparisons. Its the "The Second Renaissance" of Halo Legends.
And that can be looked at in numerous ways.
terse lava
Yea pretty much
fair hazel
Ah yes, legends is such a source of halo stuff
the package hahs been very influential too
inner basin
Just please don’t give Kelly foot plating that looks like heels
fair hazel
Please
fair hazel
I’m looking forward to getting more looks into Linda’s Armour too
inner basin
Well considering it’s built mostly from the ground up (afaik), we’ll get a better understanding of 343’s overall art direction
jolly furnace
Kelly had heels what?
inner basin
Yeah... It was an odd design choice, but I’m hoping it was removed for her GEN3 armour
I think it was Halo Canon who reminded me of it
Lemme check
Here’s the video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=il_5W1grIV8
About 3 mins in is where you’ll find it
The overall vid is a good watch too if you are interested
jolly furnace
No sense to give a Spartan heels at all
Of yeah that
Yeah no that was dumb
What design choice was that. Did they think we needed to outline it was a woman in there
Breast plating that empathize her breasts... no thanks
No to the heels
Not combat efficient
Thats like the bloody girl outruns T-rex in high heels again
I dunno how women even wear high heels.
feral perch
Japan is only interested in explicitly feminine, young women
as protagonists or princesses in distress
jolly furnace
dont know about that but whoever gave kelly that design or approved it needs a talking to
inner basin
^ Agreed. At least the breast plating doesn’t seem to be there with this new design so at least there’s some good news
inner basin
Maybe they have but we don’t know yet for sure. Let’s just hope so 🤞
bright briar
That makes me wonder, were they present in Halo 5?
jolly furnace
i dont think so
inner basin
I also don’t think so. Besides Kelly’s armour was completely different from the variant she wore in The Package compared to what she wore in Halo 5 anyways so I doubt any inspiration for her design in 5 was taken from it
jolly furnace
At least she didnt have heels in 5
inner basin
This is likely due to the inspiration used for her design. But considering The Package has clearly been used for inspiration for their GEN3 design we still have to hope that the heels aren’t included
I mean it’s unlikely they are but still
jolly furnace
Aye
keen canopy
Don't be ridiculous, theres a 0% chance of Kelly having heels in Infinte
jolly furnace
That's an absolute. Only sith deal in absolutes
keen canopy
"Inspiration" literally means inspiration, that's all. They're not getting copies of their The Package armor.
And I'm a Sith tbh @jolly furnace
versed helm
I Never noticed kelly had heels in the package lol
inner basin
I mean it’s unlikely they are but still
@keen canopy I did say this tbf
keen canopy
I think it just comes across as fear-mongering
we both know she had heels that one time due to literally being in a japanese anime
it's frankly, ridiculous to suggest it would ever appear again
terse lava
Agreed
keen canopy
her having heels isn't even canon
Grim has gone on record stating that the Legends visuals aren't canon
versed helm
Idk why but all these years I Never noticed the heels
inner basin
It’s a minor detail that only keen eyes spot 👀
Grim has gone on record stating that the Legends visuals aren't canon
I didn’t know that tbh
keen canopy
Well that must be a massive relief for you lmao
inner basin
It does give a substantial amount of assurance
humble yacht
people just need to learn to accept artistic license
keen canopy
Good to know Elite females don't look exactly like humans
or that some elites don't actually have human mouths
idk @humble yacht 343i have chalked things up to artistic license quite rarely no?
Usually they go with "all the designs are canon and you'd see a mix of them"
humble yacht
i feel like sometimes they think up canon reasons for everyone because people complain so much about every little thing
inner basin
It is quite rare for 343. Cough Chief in 4 cough
humble yacht
kind of inhibits creativity
humble yacht
i like to see people's different interpretations, especially for something like Legends
it's a nice artistic expression
inner basin
I mean it can be a double edged sword
terse lava
I did like the various art of it
stoic hamlet
See, you say that, but then other times they don’t actually justify things they do. They stay silent on things.
cough armour cough
And other stuff
humble yacht
which armor?
keen canopy
I mean yea Legends is great, 343 can just say "the visuals aren't canon" and everyone is happy
stoic hamlet
Yeah
terse lava
Wont lie though, did like Fal's battle against the army. Figured his armor was modified
keen canopy
I reckon it'd be more compelling if that was just down to him being an exceptionally skilled swordsman
terse lava
Well if we were to take the battle at face value, he was certainly moving faster then many could even react
keen canopy
We probably can't, thanks to Grim's comment and also stuff like reaction time/speed not being 1:1 in basically any Halo media (things like Kelly catching the Sigma Octanus Crystal before it hit the floor, or Jacob Keyes not being able to track the sparring Spartans with his naked eyes)
But we can certainly take as a fact, is that he took on x amount of guys and won
which is still an impressive feat
fresh mango
Does anyone know how to read A Fist Full of Arrows? http://leviathan.bungie.org/ doesn't load the images, it just shows the background when I click to read it
fresh mango
Thanks, but I enabled flash and it still doesn't work
fresh mango
Tried mobile and it didn't work
He used to have a mirror up on deviant art but took his whole account down
slate egret
@fresh mango apparently, you can use the pdf. its in the down right corner of the site under "digital copys". it takes a while to load but works
fresh mango
Woah thank you man!
You're the best! I've been trying to figure this out for so long and if I just had read the sidebar a bit closer lol
fair hazel
it's not a canon thing
slate egret
yea :D i tried to get the main thing to work too, but it just doesnt. glad i could help :D
it isnt yeah, but its still a nice story
keen canopy
It's probably the closest thing to canon that's not canon
Seeing as 343i wanted to canonize it, but it just didn't work out
fresh mango
I keep hearing different things about why it's not cannon vs how cannon it is
What are the sources for this?
unique rune
I mean.
Fistful of Arrows is fanfic.
So... it's not officially recognized as canon.
I don't believe it conflicts with any official material, so it wouldn't be hard to canonize it, but it just hasn't been.
And so it remains non-canon.
last anchor
It cant be canon cause it was fan-made and if they made it canon, theyd have to start making exceptions for everything else too, and they dont wanna.
jolly furnace
Some Legends visuals arent canon
Babysitter visuals of heian ruins are
Some of the duel is exaggerated visuals
female elite appearance aint canon
odd one out is in no way canon
origins part 1 forerunners visuals or events are of dubious accuracy
stuff like covies and humans fighting flood and GM giving MC cortana's chip are not canon
Or maybe foreshaoing future events
carmine sleet
It's not foreshadowing future events
jolly furnace
Aye i think so too
versed helm
it might
i guess that depends on 343 deciding if that certain bit of fan lore is good or not
brave swift
What do you guys know about Ramsey S032? Feel free to @ me or dm
fair hazel
@brave swift uh. Is it someone’s fan fiction because no such spartan exists
fair hazel
Curious about? Because what you said isn’t a character in halo.
No longer exists implied he existed at some point.
versed helm
Is It one of those guys going around with a spartan gamertag?
terse lava
Yea, no such spartan has ever existed. Couldnt have existed at some point before
versed helm
After googling the name i found out It’s a fan fic character
He’s apparently a psycho...
fair hazel
As I thought it. Fan fic. So not relating to halo canon or it’s actual story. @brave swift
versed helm
What’s your favorite spartan ericky?
fair hazel
It’s only, the best spartan ever.
versed helm
Spartan Bob?
fair hazel
The one and only, The amazing Pravdin
versed helm
058 i see
fair hazel
Yes. That’s her number.
Like I said. The best spartan ever. I’m so looking forward to more of her. She protects her brother, John.
carmine sleet
Ok, you say best Spartan ever but Kelly exists
versed helm
Im a fan of Linda’s Gen 3 armor
fair hazel
versed helm
Her gen 2 is pretty cool as well
carmine sleet
I don't get the hate for her helmet that I've seen, it's a unique design which stands out compared to others
versed helm
The only instance I disliked the helmet was when they tried to combine it with the Mark IV helmet in TFoR animated series, it’s gen 2 version is ok, looks like something a sniper would wear which is quite fitting.
versed helm
yeah. like, only the eye scopes to allow no distractions
versed helm
Ye
simple locust
So besides the Hierarchs, Prelates, and Stewarts are other Prophets allowed weapons or are they legally restricted?
versed helm
i dont think they really care about the legality
carmine sleet
I'm more interested in how the Stewart family were secretly Prophets this whole time
I'm guessing they actually meant Stewards but you never know
novel plank
So besides the Hierarchs, Prelates, and Stewarts are other Prophets allowed weapons or are they legally restricted?
I'd think monarchical rulers can overcome their own rules
carmine sleet
The Covenant isn't a monarchy at all because it has three rulers at the top
brittle ruin
it's a theocracy
feral perch
It’s a theocratic hegemony
terse lava
Either way, the San shyuum likely had some form of self defense either way. Whether it be their chairs' built in weapons or personal arms
jolly furnace
chair could conceal weapons
Hud interface
weapons link to HUD
marines and ODSTs have similar BIOS for it
But prophets can have weapons built into chairs
or hidden in them in a comparment
or in their robes or sleeves maybe
obsidian thistle
Smart Scope
Thats the lore reason lol
It was originally a one off line. Which was expanded upon in Halo 5.
unique rune
Weird how we call it a HUD when it's more an HMD
midnight loom
~<
unique rune
Helmet-mounted display
terse lava
Hm, I thought there was a quote that said the chair handles all the targeting and whatnot. Think the San 'Shyuum only has to press the button
south matrix
Is the Sangheili culture based on the Japanese ones?
gilded mason
No
south matrix
What are they based on then
gilded mason
A bunch of things. Norse, medieval knights, etc
south matrix
The traits of honor are similar to what the Japanese Culture would do
gilded mason
The guy who made the honor stuff for them said he based them on the Norse
gilded mason
Okay.
terse lava
Once again, artistic
jolly furnace
though we can assume the ruins of babysitter are accurate
keen canopy
it's an extremely useful mechanism that motivates men to fight and die for causes that don't even benefit them
keen canopy
that's what I just said lmao
midnight loom
ya i guess
fair hazel
just because something draws inspiration dosnt mean its going to be that 'culture;
midnight loom
eh i guess
jolly furnace
Elites cultures is inspired from several cultures - Roman Norse Japanese etc
midnight loom
huh. makes sense
tender ginkgo
Yeah Sangheili culture was based off several cultures with Japanese being one of them
reef estuary
Sangheli culture is self destructive
keen canopy
it is by the 2500s, certainly, but it wasn't this way before the Covenant
versed helm
sangheli believe in trial by fire, right?
obsidian thistle
It may depend on the state/location/colony.
midnight loom
rawr, burnblade mwahahaha
obsidian thistle
I mean a new colony cant really just let its children die meaningless deaths.
midnight loom
rawr, heritics, burn them
carmine sleet
If a new colony did do that, safe to say it wouldn't be a colony for much longer
reef estuary
well I mean
i think its way more efficient for a culture to support the notion of honour by promoting success, and not simply dying in battle,
keen canopy
Sangheili did both so to speak, even in the Covenant days
Minors would take their own lives if they weren't promoted by the end of their first campaign
keen canopy
Geez the final missions on certain campaigns would be nuts, all the Sangheili minors attempting risky, reckless feats to try distinguish themselves
spiral jewel
For the Gen 3 Mjolnir, would it be safe to assume (for the meantime), that it's backwards compatible with Gen 2 and 1 systems? (Or at least for certain features)?
obsidian thistle
Lets not assume till we see more of GEN3
spiral jewel
Good idea, CIA
obsidian thistle
Cause even in GEN1 itself hardware had to be upgraded in stuff to be compatible with later Marks.
spiral jewel
Good point
versed helm
he'd be Mark IV 
keen canopy
Missed opportunity there
versed helm
😢
carmine sleet
I'd say the bigger one is that James isn't James-007 and is instead James-005
versed helm
Agreed
spiral jewel
There's plenty of Spartan 2 numbers that are still unknown to us (I should note that I am excluding the discharged members, like Kirk-018, Serin-019, Soren-066, Cassandra-075, Rene-081, Fhajad-084, Musa-096 and Ralph-103 despite the appearance)
001-004, 007, 009, 011 022 , 024-028, 033, 035, 036, 038, 040, 041, 045,046, 050, 054-057, 060, 061, 063-068, 070-078, 080-086, 088-091, 094-100, 101, 102, 105-110, 112-116, 118, 119, 121, 123-129, 131- 136, 138-140, and any Spartan 2 between Roma-143 and Nicole-458
(I was using https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/db05ce78845f4120b062c50816008e5d/topics/complete-spartan-list/58cfcd69-78c6-4d4a-913b-a3026fcbbc4a/posts for reference, )
carmine sleet
Nicole's a weird one because she wasn't part of the original batch of S-IIs, instead being part of class II but we know nothing about those S-IIs outside of Nicole
And some minor stuff in I Love Bees
terse lava
Thought class 2 was retconned
spiral jewel
Apparently a 1.1 was supposed to become part of S2 Class 2 going by the article
carmine sleet
Class II is still a thing, Ado
terse lava
Huh ok
feral perch
Ackerson confirmed in Ghosts of Onyx that it never happened
stoic hamlet
It was planned, but yeah, funding was diverted for S-III.
It’s made like, super clear
It’s the most clear cut thing we’ve gotten from all Spartan Programs, I think, actually.
You can try and find a cop out if you want, but it would be a massive reach.
last anchor
Class II got cut. Wasn't enough resources and time.
S-III rolled out intsead
midnight loom
yeah cus class 3 was more efficient cus there was a spartan2 to train em
feral perch
I’ve never heard the Spartan III program referred to as SII Class 3
humble yacht
It wasn’t
fair hazel
With the new books we see a bit what Halsey was up to in the time right beginning the human covenant war
Almost said clone wars..
terse lava
Begun, the covenant war has
carmine sleet
Que Clone Wars theme as Halo: The Covenant War flashes on screen
spiral coral
haha nice
last anchor
I mean I'd watch a Clone Wars style cartoon set during the HCW without a second thought
fair hazel
I think that old original one is overrated. i like the new one
terse lava
How was it overrated?
inner basin
Was thinking the same thing
fair hazel
ive seen so many people praise it sooooooooo much, but i watched it and it was like, eh.
inner basin
Well I guess that’s your opinion to be fair, and everyone is entitled to one. I personally thought it was good
Can’t really give an insight on the new one
fair hazel
im not a fan of the super long pauses in the animation
and other stuff
but, anyways a clone wars style animation for halo would probably be amazing
stoic hamlet
Fordo is best clone though.
terse lava
Plus, 2003 grevious was you know. A THREAT
gilded mason
I miss him
carmine sleet
I do wish Grevious had his original, tragic backstory in Star Wars canon
gilded mason
Yeah
terse lava
I admit, one reason I liked him was him reminding me of dbz imperfect cell
And also, kicking everyone's butt
gilded mason
dbz imperfect cell
I was so disappointed when he changed forms.
stoic hamlet
Speaking of tragic backstories, it was cool to see the Jedi finally depicted as, well, what they’ve basically been known to be for a long time in the newest Clone Wars episode.
terse lava
Hm I forgot about that. May need to catch up
stoic hamlet
I’m glad the show is bringing up those topics.
Overall the episode isn’t great. It’s average at best.
terse lava
Well they were always seen as goodie goodie despite what they did
stoic hamlet
But that bit was good.
terse lava
Kinda like everyone says the empire and imperials are evil
stoic hamlet
Well, they’re depicted as goodie-goodie in the movies
terse lava
Yea
carmine sleet
The Jedi should've ended in Last Jedi, don't @ me
stoic hamlet
But Clone Wars has had several scenes where the Jedi show their arrogance and stuff, especially in the later seasons.
terse lava
Mhm
stoic hamlet
Heroes on both sides, and the Ahsoka fugitive arc are the big stand outs in that sense, plus this newest episode.
Honestly Palpy didn’t need to do much to make the public hate them
terse lava
Meh
Hm funny enough seems truth didnt have to so much to say thr covenant from the sangheili
carmine sleet
Honestly Palpy didn’t need to do much to make the public hate them
Well, he did out videos blaming the Jedi for the war, as seen in the episode where Ahsoka lost her lightsaber
terse lava
Oh yea
eternal oriole
Why are we talking about Star wars in Halo?
grim pivot
so i want to get all possible halo lore such as books comic books games and movies does anyone have a list of the entire expanded universe? @ me
south matrix
What culture is the Convanent inspired by.
versed helm
Multiple cultures
grim pivot
thank you @bright briar
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TbyFB9k80pPKNOnTeELkWEnZnBqgzUd9crUCVEYcJUQ/edit#gid=1523788392
i found this from my search of all the lore and i found this doc with seemingly everything halo
glass kestrel
So do we think that Halo: Shadows of reach will be the Prelude to infinite as Fall of reach was to CE, First Strike was to Halo 2, and Ghosts of Onyx was to Halo 3?
deep pewter
Wait, how was GoO a prelude for 3? It’s pretty independent from 3s story
humble yacht
Tru dat
keen canopy
@glass kestrel It's kicking off a couple years before Infinite, and 343i have stated they want everyone to be in the dark as of Infinite beginning
they also made it very very clear you don't need to read SoR to understand Infinite
I personally reckon it'll help provide some context, but only a little bit. Something big is gonna be going down in between the end of SoR and the beginning of Infinite, and we're gonna find out what happened throughout/at the beginning of Infinite
SoR will serve sort of as a farewell to the concept of Blue team operating all together I reckon. Since the band is getting broken up again by the time Infinite starts.
I wouldn't even be suprised if Halsey's plan (aka whatever she's sending Blue team to CASTLE base to retrieve) ultimately fails by the end of SoR, and the created shut it down somehow.
glass kestrel
@deep pewter it clarifies why blue team was not in Halo 2 or 3
humble yacht
That doesn’t make it a prelude to halo 3
terse lava
More a bridge
jolly furnace
GoO came out in 2006 right?
It was first time I noticed halo books existed I think
terse lava
That was the year yes
jolly furnace
Thanks
In regards to something i brought up regarding forerunners cloning individuals and using other methods beside the composers to extract essences from flood and imprint them on new bodies. That wouldn't work. The Flood's corruption of the pattern is so complete the clone bodies would just die from inside out anyway
The point about using other methods to upload them themselves into Domain still stands though. We know they have existed before composers so composers were not needed for that
terse lava
That's the one I have found...distasteful regarding the flood. The infection is so utter and complete it infects the soul/mind. Seems just over the top 40k type stuff
Completely unnecessary
jolly furnace
I think it was cool. It could be explained due to their precursor origin and the Precursors hand in creating life.
Its also a way to further enhance the horror of the Flood. If ur infected, ur done. No essence extraction and being put into a new body will save u
U cant cheat Floodification it seems
terse lava
Which I feel to an extent is a bit of bull. I was fine with the idea of someone trapped in their flood controlled body like Jenkins. Heck was even for a while fine with one being stuck within gravemind.
I would agree though its likely due to precursor origins.
jolly furnace
Aye I think it maybe due to the Precursors putting their laws into the very molecules of their created species as Catalog put it
And due to the Precursor link they and the Flood share is what lets the Flood do this corruption so utterly
Or in short hand its Neural Physics
terse lava
Pretty much, to think every flood victim will be in torment forever...poor Jenkins and Kusovai
humble yacht
Jenkins was never fully assimilated tho
terse lava
Figure he would still be just as boned once his body perished
humble yacht
It seems like, for whatever reasonX his pod infector was disconnected from the greater hive mind
So while Jenkins was experiencing tremendous physical pain, I don’t think he went through the same mental corruption as Keyes, for example
Esp considering he actively tried to assist his friends when he could
terse lava
We are only told the pod was weak and failed to subdue his mind. Not that it wasnt connected to the hivemind.
humble yacht
I thought we were told that the pod failed to kill him in the conversion process
terse lava
Let me find my copy quick
humble yacht
Also I did say that it seems like the pod wasn’t connected to the greater network since I haven’t seen reference to Jenkins describing the mental aspect of the corruption; halopedia only accounts for the physical trauma he experienced.
jolly furnace
I like to think Jenkins avoided that fate of eternal torment
humble yacht
He did thank his Lieutenant just before dying
jolly furnace
Also I would think if the Flood and/or the Gravemind/Primordial/Hivemind was utterly annihilated that the essences within it would be freed to enter their final rest
terse lava
It does confirm the pod was only weak.
humble yacht
Sure but without an account of attempted mental corruption in jenkin’s internal dialogue, it stands to reason that the pod’s connection to the flood network was comprised
terse lava
As for that idea, maybe. I could see the forerunners absorbed by the gravemind being freed on the halo array firing. What we see eons later would just be echos. Not the actual beings themselves
humble yacht
Since the gravemind retains memories of its previous iterations, that includes any memories from people absorbed before the firings
Besides, even the Halos don’t fully eradicate the flood
terse lava
The question would be though if it was truly them though
jolly furnace
If it wasn't the real essences in the hivemind then the whole thing about bringing neverending pain to it creations would be pointless
terse lava
Guess no final rest then, unless they..."sleep" between gravemind avatars
jolly furnace
I guess the victims can only find peace once the Primordial/hivemind is erased from existence
Honestly i imagine it would involve Neural Physics
We'll probably never know to be honest
reef estuary
I think its a bit of a stretch
that singular spores continuing to exist
can retain such knowledge
lunar condor
Id think its more like the actual "soul" of the hivemind is doing some neural physics magic cthulu stuff to stay around and it just inhabits the next hivemind that forms
Tho i dont think we will ever get an explanation behind how the dark magic of neural physics works
reef estuary
im pretty sure your description dark magic sums it up
versed helm
What's your favorite armor set boys?
reef estuary
elite spec ops
versed helm
Ye it looks pretty cool
terse lava
Halo CE classic, not the oddball curve helmet and exposed hips
versed helm
Ye CE elite armor was pretty cool
tacit helm
Halo reach is my fav
reef estuary
so if plasma glow can't be covered by active camo
why do camo'd elites who serve on the frontlines use plasma weapons?
carmine sleet
They can turn off the weapon
reef estuary
and if they're ever in a combat situation where they might need to shoot someone
they need turn them back on,
giving them away
unique rune
If they're in a combat situation where they need to shoot someone, chances are something else has already given them away.
reef estuary
then that just comes back to the question, why plasma rifles, why are using weapons that reveal our stealthed presence with their glow when there are many other weapons that don't emit a glow we could be using,
carmine sleet
Have you considered you might be looking too much into this?
reef estuary
I wouldnt consider it that deep,
in fact thats pretty shallow as far as thought goes
carmine sleet
That's why I'm saying you're looking too much into this
reef estuary
like telling the stealth guy not to hold glow sticks,
humble yacht
Lore-wise, he active camo probably does cover the plasma glow. I imagine the glow being visible in game is for gameplay balance
carmine sleet
Pretty sure in most of the games, the sword is invisible in gameplay
Only in CE and 2 it's visible when someone is using it and invisible
jade lantern
question to anyone who has read the halo evolutions book in which the short story palace hotel we learn that chief childhood sweet heart is alive and in new mombasa. do we know what happens to her?
terse lava
We have no clue what her ultimate fate is.
keen canopy
If Halo 2 is to believed... The Lieutenant got hit as soon as we dropped in.
I prefer to think of Palace Hotel as somewhat of an alternate timeline. It also makes Halo 2's depiction of events more tragic knowing that the LT was John's friend.
tender ginkgo
Dark magic pretty much sums up how the Gravemind works
carmine sleet
Neural physics would be a better phrase to use
tender ginkgo
Neural physics is basically magic
jolly furnace
Yes it is.
I wonder what the Precursors called it. Cos we only heard it called Neural Physics by the Forerunners.
versed helm
Hello, is Halo 2600 the game for atari part of the lore
humble yacht
No
versed helm
k thanks
carmine sleet
That game is merely a fan-made game
glass kestrel
@tender ginkgo Magic and science at some level become indistinguishable
humble yacht
Magic is simply science we don’t yet understand
tender ginkgo
Ehh don't like that explanation. Sometimes magic in a setiing is just that, magic. Though neural physics is clearly magitech
jolly furnace
Yeah we know that Clarke's third Law doesn't work with Neural Physics
It encapsulates it perfectly but we all know it's not something that can or will ever be understood by humanity no matter how hard they try.
Forerunners barely knew anything of it.
Same with AH
Its 343i handwave on things that can't be explained scientifically in Halo's verse without actually calling it magic
tender ginkgo
Yeah like how the Domain is 100 Billion years despite the Halo universe being 13 Billion
fair hazel
I don’t think it’s this handwave explaination... it’s not there to solve any problem
A handwave explaination is something else
jolly furnace
Well its 343i's justification for non-scientific things as far as real life goes
carmine sleet
Neural physics wouldn't explain how the Spirit of Fire got to the Ark, just as an example of something it can't explain
jolly furnace
Heck the Flood was already breaking physics before Neural Physics was introduced
Cos we know Neural Physics wasnt involved in SOF getting to the Ark. That was something else.
fair hazel
Except flood and precursor tech uses neural physics. It’s not a handwave but a core part of them.
jolly furnace
This was before Neural Physics was a thing.
You can use it to retroactively explain it but it still breaks physics
The Flood's mere existence breaks physics
humble yacht
It’s hand wavy in the sense that they don’t explain the mechanism of neural physics
At this time it’s an abstract concept
jolly furnace
And they won't either
humble yacht
Like even in series with actual magic, they often describe the mechanism by how magic works (magic circles, spoken word, spiritual energy, etc)
humble yacht
I’m just saying that magic isn’t always handwavy
jolly furnace
True i guess
But don't expect any detailed explanation on Neural Physics intricacies
Its an abstract interplay between thought and the fabric of reality. Thats as much as we'll get I think
And you need to be a tanssentient mind to actually use it.
Like a Precursor or a GM
Don't expect MC or anyone to be throwing around Force powers or psyker powers from 40K
Which is what some are thinking will happen I've read.
reef estuary
I mean the whole neurophysics is basically magic
apparently the flood can still contain all the knowledge of all its previous victims, the gravemind personality etc, when they're just spores, 🙂 with no technology
jolly furnace
Fun fact - Neurophysics (as you wrote it there) is actually a real life concept.
Yes they do Keith.
There's no technology involved. Only space magic.
stoic hamlet
You’re saying it wrong.
It’s pronounced SPESS MAGIK
reef estuary
Supacu magicku
tame hamlet
Hi guys I'm pretty bored would anyone be down for a rousing game of ODST Firefight? I'd love for someone to tell me about some lore or books or w/e
terse lava
What type of lore are you hungry for?
gaunt oakBOT
fair hazel
And if u want to learn some lore feel free to drop by #lore-and-universe and ask questions
Well that's just... silly.. I thought i was in general chat..
Ask away
faint copper
Return of Flood
tame hamlet
@faint copper broo I miss the flood so bad. Halo just isn't high stakes enough without em
keen canopy
Thanks to Halo Modder Toby Mac, we've got a bunch of new unheard cut Halo 2 dialogue, you can read and listen to them on Halopedia: https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_2_Cut_Dialogue
Some interesting lore implications, like the Hunters initially siding with the Elites, and In Amber Clad having no human lifesigns when it entered High Charity
And also potentially, Cortana mentioning the Gravemind's apparent ability to manipulate slipspace drives -far before the Precursor connection was a thing.
terse lava
There any way to find out how fast the flood was spreading? If I recall High Charity fell in 17 hours. But the with reports of flood within every district, was that still mere minutes after the crash?
keen canopy
hmm looking at my timeline (pm'd you since I can't post images here) it's not clear exactly how much time passed in the High Charity level. But remember IAC crashed during Gravemind, so there was a decent amount of time before High Charity, which is when those lines would've played
terse lava
Just seems so crazily fast
keen canopy
High Charity falling in 17 hours fits well with Halo 2, but yea it's hard to pinpoint exactly where certain things happened
versed helm
I wonder if there were any survivors in High Charity, and if they escaped. Most likely not, though
terse lava
There were plenty of survivors
They managed to get out soon enough
Its implied a few thousand san shyuum managed to escape, and likly a few million other Covenant races
But this was out of a population of 7.7 billion
keen adder
Is halo infinite set after halo 5 or way before any of that?
keen adder
Ok thanks
versed helm
How'd you figure out the time gap?
bright briar
Chief's HUD in Discover Hope says when the software was last modified - 2561.
bright briar
carmine sleet
We don't know which ring for sure but many believe it could be Zeta Halo
Note that while there is evidence of it being Zeta Halo, that is not confirmed to be the ring
feral perch
It’s possible that we could visit multiple Halo rings
perhaps through teleportation, even
violet notch
We've visited 3 so far, right?
One of them twice.
(sorta)
Installation 04, Installation 05, and Installation (whatever was the one in H4)
carmine sleet
We've been to 04, 05, 08 and 09 in games and flown by 03 in Halo 4
violet notch
(plus Installation 04 rebuilt)
carmine sleet
09 was in Halo Wars 2
violet notch
It was?
carmine sleet
And 08 is the ring we destroy in Halo 3
violet notch
Oh, I counted that as just Installation 04 Jr.
Weren't there originally 12 rings?
Wouldn't 08 have been one of them?
carmine sleet
Those things, apart from one, were destroyed
feral perch
08 is the replacement for 04 @violet notch
carmine sleet
08 and 09 are the replacements for Alpha Halo, 04, that the Ark made
feral perch
^^
violet notch
and 9?
versed helm
cause im confused as to if the ring chief is on in the trailer is the one that cortana slipspaces to, and is also the one seen at the end of HW 2, when a guardian appears
violet notch
Oh, I forgot HW2.
carmine sleet
cause im confused as to if the ring chief is on in the trailer is the one that cortana slipspaces to, and is also the one seen at the end of HW 2, when a guardian appears
We just don't know as of right now
Someone at 343i no doubt knows the answer
violet notch
Would they really be 8 and 9? Or would they be 4, just rebuilt as 4 was built originally?
versed helm
cause the ending of H5 and HW2 kind tie up, dontcha think?
carmine sleet
But you can't just ask 343i for an answer
unique rune
Think of the numbered designations as serial numbers.
carmine sleet
Would they really be 8 and 9? Or would they be 4, just rebuilt as 4 was built originally?
Yes, they are 08 and 09, that has been confirmed multiple times in various material released over the years
violet notch
Because 4's control room in H3 looked a lot like it did in HCE. Other than the obvious graphical differences, I'd say that when it builds replacements, the replacement shares the same architectural plans.
oh
well if the official canon cals them 8 and 9, who am I to question
I thought those were fan-made designations.
feral perch
09’s control room had an extremely different layout, however
violet notch
Well there is the theory of redundant control rooms.
feral perch
04B and 04C are the fanon designations
versed helm
but shouldnt they all have the same layout?
violet notch
the control room in HW2 might have been a different room
versed helm
since its literally the same machine
violet notch
They don't have identical layouts though.
feral perch
Alpha and Delta Halos had very different configurations
violet notch
We can see clearly in H2 that I5 is different architecturally from I4
carmine sleet
The different layouts could easily be explained by the Forerunners wanting each ring to be different so that if the Flood captured one ring again, they wouldn't be able to just use the knowledge of where everything is on one ring to find where everything is on another
violet notch
In H2 the Gravemind room is identical in design to the control room in HCE. But the control room at the end of the game is vastly different in design.
versed helm
but if the flood can "commandeer" the monitors, wont they gain full control of the ring?
violet notch
Which spawned the fan theory of redundant and/or decoy control rooms.
I thought 2401PT let his local flood out of stasis because he suffered from Rampancy?
unique rune
I don't think anything's ever been confirmed on how it began
carmine sleet
but if the flood can "commandeer" the monitors, wont they gain full control of the ring?
The Monitor of one ring can't exactly help them too much if brought to another ring, given that they compartmentalised allot of info in case a Monitor was captured by the Flood
feral perch
Penitent Tangent became derelict... It’s unknown exactly why
unique rune
I doubt 2401 went out of his way to release them, more likely just rampancy leading to some deficiencies and errors in maintenance that led to the Flood inadvertently breaking out
feral perch
But the Sentinels and other ancilla on the Ring tried to compensate for his absence
violet notch
The same isolation that made 343GS bored and goingmad as shown in HCEA's terminals.
violet notch
random chance?
They were programmed with distinct personalities
Perhaps his was more suseptible to it
feral perch
And afawk, the Flood only had the local flora and fauna to feed on.
violet notch
That's something that's always bothered me.
feral perch
How did a Gravemind form with no sentient life present?
violet notch
The Flood seem to break the rules of equivalent exchange.
It doesn't need to have sentient life present to grow sentient. It just needs enough neural matter to grow it itself.
feral perch
I think alien intruders caused the outbreak and provided nourishment for the Flood
unique rune
"By your brainpower combined, I AM SENTIENT"
violet notch
basically
feral perch
It does need sentient life to grow sentient .
violet notch
But it always bothered me hat the Flood seems to end up with more mass than they would have been able to feed on.
Even in lifeforms that reproduce, if the nurishment isn't there to generate more mass for the new life, it can't. So how does the Flood's mass always seem to grow so large with so little to typically feed on?
feral perch
FSC
feral perch
Flood Super Cell
violet notch
BTW I'm not sure it does need specifically sentient life to grow sentient itself. Would certainly speed up the process sure. But I think given enough time and neural matter, it would eventually grow sentience on its own.
Otherwise the Gravemind on I5 wouldn't have been able to occur.
feral perch
Unless alien intruders arrived and caused it
violet notch
But we have no evidence of that. We do have evidence of Installation Fauna though. So I'm using Occam's Razor on exclusively confirmed canon evidence. I'd like to avoid inserting new elements or variables into the equation where there's no evidence to support its inclusion.
Would it make the equation a lot easier to assume an outside insertion of sentient life?
Yes.
But that sounds like making too much of an assumption just to make things work.
feral perch
Eh, Occam’s razor makes for dissatisfying story-telling
I’d prefer for something more interesting to be the case
violet notch
Interesting does not always lend itself to being supported though.
You're right, it would be far more interesting.
However, it's likely never to be able to be confirmed.
feral perch
We’ll see.
violet notch
But if we exclusively work with what we have. And all we have is local fauna. Then the only conclusions we can make is that that's all it needs. And that evidence is easier to support than inserting an event that we have nothing to show for.
violet notch
Lol, true.
rustic canyon
I think the field guide talked about how the flood spread more. Would have to go and find it
reef estuary
I mean the flood themselves are an enigma,
rustic canyon
angry precursors who wanted revenge on the race who attacked them and used their millions of years of knowledge about species to manipulate and weaken so they could consume.
reef estuary
personally I think the flood would never pose the threat in a realistic situation that the halo events depict 🙂
ofc though the events in halo depict the flood winning battle after battles because of divide in factions and surprise factor,
rustic canyon
the flood are formed from what was essentially the gods of the halo universe corrupted yes but with all of their knowledge and at the time when the war was at its height they had precursor tech like starroads. Forerunners killed them because they weren't fighting back and eventually came back as the flood
violet notch
I think the way they gave the Flood an origin story severely cheapens their impact.
versed helm
not really
violet notch
Once you've taken the mystery out of something, it's no longer nearly as interesting.
versed helm
its like the beginning of the necromorphs from ds
violet notch
It worked better as an unknowable force of malice. It was very Lovecraftian. It was unknowable, even to a civilization as advanced as the Forerunner.
Now it just sounds like standard sci-fi fare.
feral perch
They’re still esoteric and vaguely love craft Ian
reef estuary
i mean it definitely had elements of horror in it, but definitely not lovecraftian
versed helm
it still has the lovecraft feel to it
feral perch
Nobody quite understands the Flood
rustic canyon
it was largely unknown to the forerunners until the primordial explained it to mendicent bias
versed helm
i dont think so
rustic canyon
and even then they still didn't know and no one really knows in universe. as the information was kept a secret so it gets to be slightly both
versed helm
cause it gave us a lot more closed doors than open ones
violet notch
But I liked all the open doors. And it doesn't get to be both a mystery and not because the characters in-universe don't know, because the audience does now. So it's not the same anymore.
versed helm
then tell me how the precursors got corrupted into the flood
violet notch
I don't know, and nor do I want to know. Though if memory serves, I vaguely think it had something to do with someone's pet?
violet notch
In any case, I don't even want to know that.
It was much more mysterious left unknown. and therfore far more interesting.
bright briar
The ancient humans found the dust and noticed that it made their farm animals much more productive, so they kept feeding it to them. Eventually, they started to become aggressive and all flood-like, then passed it on to the humans.
reef estuary
not because it explains the character, but because the execution on the idea seems contrived
versed helm
us getting to know about one aspect of it opened up a lot more discussion
violet notch
That's not always a good thing though.
In very Lovecraftian fashion, sometimes the unkown is far more terrifying and interesting to the human psyche.
versed helm
fyi, you're saying more lore is not a good thing in a lore chat
reef estuary
its not lovecraftian
violet notch
not anymore
reef estuary
lovecraft focuses on the person, their emotional impact, the arcane horror, it was never lovecraftian
feral perch
The way the Flood spread is sounding like coronavirus lol
versed helm
you read the flood?
feral perch
I read the novel based on CE, yeah
violet notch
Lovecraft also had many elements of vast unkowable and unpeakable horrors from across the cosmos who regarded humanity as little more than food at best, and hardly even notice our presence at worst. So I'd say the Flodd still fits in that category.
feral perch
I tried listening to Primordium but it was so boring I stopped
versed helm
you remember about keyes' struggle to retain himself
feral perch
Yep
versed helm
and that one other soldier
violet notch
Keys' struggle is also featured in HCEA's terminals.
jolly furnace
Forthencho's anyway
As for flood on 05. My guess is malfunction released them due to monitor negligence and it consumed the fauna there and gathered most its biomass already in storage
feral perch
Maybe, but I really don’t care about ancient humans or descriptions of bleeding tongues.
jolly furnace
Well they maybe important later on
versed helm
yeah
jolly furnace
Heck rumor is they could be important in Halo Infinite
jolly furnace
My guess is if it happens it'll be in terminals
Or Geas
Its possible that if MC or any human set foots on that Ring it could trigger a Geas and the awakening of an ancient human essence inside them
versed helm
that'd be legit
rustic canyon
well 4 and 5 have brought in a lot more of the lore then the previous games. You might not have read the books but suddenly having the Didact return is a "wait who moment" Cortana surviving or at least a fragment of her if you hadn't read she could do that in the book (granted we see her do it at the end of 4) is different... or all of Blue team
violet notch
I read some of the books. Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike, and Ghosts of Onyx. I'm not having a "wait who" moment. I just didn't appreciate the lore beginning to be over-explained. Where there used to be pockets of mystery, now there's a book for that. And to me those mysteries have lost all their charm as a result.
This is obviously all just my opinion. So I understand if not all feel the same way.
But for me, I'd rather have left the Flood's origins completely unkown. They felt more of a threat somehow. Because the unkown is always more terrifying than the known.
feral perch
Not necessarily.
last anchor
Nah mate, finding out they're the end result of a twisted god-species makes them all the more terrifying.
Cause back in the day, they were just some kind of really bad space zombies. I never felt the worry that you hear in Keyes' and Hoods voices in Voi
Now though? Now I get the feeling. The FEAR.
I replayed Floodgate and heard Keyes say "we destroy the city or risk loosing the entire planet" and I KNEW what she was seeing. What the Flood was entirely capable of.
Theres only one option for truly stopping a Flood outbreak; EXTERMINATION
versed helm
thats true
meeting a horror once is enough
but meeting it again? thats a nightmare
last anchor
Awakening the Nightmare made it all the more worse, seeing it literally come out of the ground in those huge swarms...
It truly earned the title of "the Flood"
rustic canyon
seeing how smart the flood actually is was a lot more scary, how they corrupted and twisted the master builder to torture ancient humanity after the war by pretending humans were immune to the flood. How they corrupted mendicent bias to turn on the forerunners with a few decades of conversations and the logic plague making technology and organics not immune to the flood infection.
last anchor
^
They're an eldrich horror in space and its AWESOME.
It also helped me finally silence this one kid on another Discord server who had this almost obsessive belief that the Flood was less of a threat than the Blacklight virus from Prototype
Im pretty sure he was just being a memelord now but still, the final silence was nice
fair hazel
Ah, i think I know who.
last anchor
You were there werent you Erik? XD
rustic canyon
it is similar to ONI, yeah we know they are kind of shady but then you learn about their secret experiments, secret prisons and how dangerous they really are. how they have found ancient humanity technology and records so they know secrets the rest of the galaxy and their own people don't. How the AI's they have seemed to predict the rise of the created and went into an isolated black box
last anchor
Can we get Hunt The Truth 3 plz
carmine sleet
So long as we get Janina Gavankar back as the AI from the end of the final episode and Kumail Nanjiani as Mshak Moradi
Granted, Kumail is very busy these days but still, Mshak wouldn't be the same without him
last anchor
Honestly I want 3 to be entirely from Mshaks perspective.
Show us the 2500 equivilent of 4chan. Show us the glorious darkweb.
Show us human hackers going up against the Created with homebrew coding and computers made from trash
carmine sleet
Give us an episode where he's just trying to get his high score in Unggoy Farmer, only for the Created to take down the servers
rustic canyon
hahaha that could be fun
last anchor
He almost makes it and then everything shuts down and THATS what makes him go on his glorious crusade
rustic canyon
but so who else has already pre-ordered shadows of reach?
last anchor
Probably gonna myself ye
rustic canyon
I am kind of hoping the theory we are getting a new cortana is true. So it will replay mendicent vs offensive bias but then someone pointed out that might be the banished on reach
jolly furnace
But what becomes of new Cortana
?
Many wont want a new one especially after 4 gave what most think should have been the end of her arc
carmine sleet
If there is a "new Cortana" it has to be very different to the one we know and love in many ways
fair hazel
I sont preorder the books
rustic canyon
well things that were listed in halsey's lab for castle base were brain samples which are used to make AI's and if they need to stop cortana assuming she isn't just some puppet that gets destroyed. A new cortana to repair or neutralize her might be needed.
But if there is a new one yeah she would have to be different then 5's who was more manipulative towards John and the team
fair hazel
I buy them at midnight release pretty much
If I pre order they aren’t active at midnight
rustic canyon
I have amazon and just prepay for them to arrive on release day. It isa nice to to just have it arrive when I get home from work usually
fair hazel
Digital
rustic canyon
not the same as having it on the shelf right next to the other 26 books and comics
versed helm
agreed
last anchor
You have midnight releases still Erick? Man, Canada must have a better book system than we do, I cant find a single store willing to do midnight launches.
...course most of them aren't big enough for it so
rustic canyon
I miss borders and being able to be up at midnight.... now they aren't around and I am old and am to tired
eternal oriole
Now that I think about it, I dont know where/what Onyx is
I know its a Planet
But...... thats about it
What role does it play in the Halo universe?
feral perch
Onyx is a Forerunner shield world, like the Etran Harborage or Requiem
Except it was much, much bigger after Glasslands
Not only does it contain a star, but it has numerous planets inside it.
humble yacht
aren't those things contained in the slipspace event inside the world?
feral perch
It’s also the site of a joint UNSC-Swords of Sanghelios colony called Paxopolis
They were.
humble yacht
So it's like timelord tech in that it's bigger on the inside than the outside.
but the outside could be comparable in volume to any other shield world
feral perch
I think so.
The outside of Onyx is completely black, and it’s massive too
You can’t actually see it in space because there’s not a star nearby
last anchor
I want a sequel to it.
A visit to Kurts grave would be nice plx...
fair hazel
I was kinda sad when the spartans and civilians were dying..
stoic hamlet
Do we know who if any other Spartans were on Onyx during Legacy?
fair hazel
spartan-IVs